June 3, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of "Lost in Jersey," we sit down with Governor Phil Murphy for a wide-ranging and candid conversation. Murphy opens up about his journey from Massachusetts to New Jersey, sharing how his early experiences shaped his path to public service. He reflects on seven years in office—covering major accomplishments, ongoing challenges, and his approach to leadership. With the June 10th primary election coming up, the Governor also weighs in on New Jersey’s political landscape and the broader national picture, including what it’s been like working with the current Trump administration compared to the first one. A few laughs and a nod to Bruce Springsteen remind us there’s always a human side to politics. Tune in for a fresh, insightful look at one of Jersey’s most influential leaders.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Jeanette, hi Rachel.
We just had a great interviewwith Governor Phil Murphy of New
Jersey.
Yes, it was such a greatinterview.
We talked about his background,some of the things that he's
proud of that has happenedduring his last seven years, and
some of the things he still hason his desk to deal with, which
is quite a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yes, we have a primary coming up on June 10.
We're one of only two stateshaving a governor election in
November.
So a lot is going on in thestate of New Jersey right now
and obviously in the UnitedStates of America, so we do
touch upon a lot of differenttopics.
How he grew up, how he got here.
He's really fascinating andjust a lovely person and very
(00:40):
easy to talk to.
Yep Enjoy this interview.
Very easy to talk to Yep.
Enjoy this interview.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Welcome, governor Murphy to Lost in Jersey.
It's so nice to have you on theshow.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I love it.
This evokes the famous lyricfrom Rosalita, Somewhere in the
Swamps of Jersey.
The boss, I'm thrilled to bewith you.
Ladies, thanks for having meno-transcript.
(01:12):
I'm a big boss fan.
I was on with him texting backand forth yesterday telling him
to stay strong out there inEurope as he's going through his
next month and a half.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
He's a beacon of light for a lot of Americans
right now that are wishing theycould be with him in Europe,
yeah, amen.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
His sentiments are appreciated by a lot of people.
We wanted to structure thisinterview in a way that we can
really kind of.
How we always interview peopleis we wanna know your background
.
Even though some people mayknow it, some people might not,
but there's always some thingsthat we discover about people
when we learn about where theygrew up and their journey to
where they are today.
So can you give us a little bitabout your background?
(01:52):
I believe that you're not fromNew Jersey.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, most of my background gets me no votes in
New Jersey, so another reasonI'm probably blessed to be term
limited at this point.
Born in Boston, literally Grewup just west of Boston.
Youngest of four, I havedescribed my family which I
think is a very accurate middleclass.
On a good day there's anacronym called ALICE A-L-I-C-E
(02:18):
Asset Limited, incomeConstrained but Employed, and I
think that describes my mom anddad in our situation.
My dad never graduated fromhigh school really brilliant guy
but wasn't a school guy.
My mom did graduate from highschool.
That was her last degree.
He made sure we cared aboutpublic service and politics and
(02:39):
current events.
She made sure we got aneducation and all of us did.
Public school guy.
Got into Harvard University ona scholarship, majored in
economics, beginning in middleschool, high school and college.
Big theatrical guy I'm still atheatrical junkie.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I love that Rachel wants to talk to you about that.
You're going to have to pausefor a moment.
Yeah, I was very much, I lovethe musical theater.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I was very excited to read that about you.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, so that's still a passion, and I was very much.
I love the musical theater.
I was very excited to read thatabout you, so that's still a
passion.
And I was the first guy ever tobe this.
This in $4.09 will get you agrande latte at Starbucks, but I
was the first guy ever toappear in four hasty pudding
theatricals productionsalongside a classmate named
David Merrill.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That's a first.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That was a first At the time.
It was a first.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Wow, I love that.
That's where the achievementstarted after getting into a
very, very good school.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
That's when you got a taste of auditioning for
something and getting the partlike running for office and
getting the part.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
That's true.
I just gave a commencementaddress at University of
Pennsylvania Law School and Imade the point that you could
have worse training than theater.
If you have an aspiration to bein politics or government, it
allows you to.
It's true.
There's always somebody whoforgets their line, or the
scenery collapses, or peoplelaugh when they're not supposed
to laugh or applaud when they'renot supposed to, and you've got
(04:01):
to be able to think on yourfeet and keep going.
Yeah so that part of my life hasbeen important.
I then sold textbooks for twoyears.
I would not recommend that ifthe podcast does not work out
for the two of you.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, I don't think that industry is thriving right
now.
My husband's a professor, youknow, textbooks are really not
being used.
They're not it.
Yeah, are really not being used.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
They're not.
It, yeah, got a master's inbusiness at the Wharton School
at UPenn and basically worked onWall Street at Goldman Sachs
around the world for the next 20odd years New York, germany,
hong Kong, back to New Yorkrunning some global businesses
and then hung up my Wall Streetcleats, became the national
(04:47):
finance chair for the DemocraticNational Committee.
I was a big believer in HowardDean's 50-state strategy.
That was a volunteer positionbut I did it full-time, raised a
lot of money.
That got Congress back to ourside, got Barack Obama elected.
He then asked me to be ourambassador to the Federal
Republic of Germany and then wecame back from Germany and never
(05:11):
expecting to run for office,and one thing led to another.
We started a think tank.
We took what was going on inNew Jersey at sort of a policy
level very seriously, ultimatelydecided to run and got elected
twice.
I've left out the mostimportant part.
I've been married going on 31years to Tammy.
We have four kids Josh 27, emma25, charlie 23, sam 21, two
(05:35):
dogs and a goldfish.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Wow, wait, a goldfish .
That's surprising, that isactually surprising.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Actually our son Charlie's.
He brought it home when hegraduated from Princeton a
couple years ago.
I think it's the world'slongest living goldfish.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I would say normally when you say you have a goldfish
, you have like a four-year-old,not a 21-year-old.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
But yeah, that's amazing.
Trust me on that one I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
When we were talking we were talking about the
ambassador to Germany part,because we were really
fascinated also knowing aboutthe Goldman Sachs part, where
you were over there in Germanyworking and how you were
learning some German and alsounderstanding the economy there
and what was going on.
And then going back as anambassador what was that like
(06:21):
for you?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
So, at least in his first term.
One comment about Barack ObamaI thought was great at the time
and he's looking better by thesecond.
Everybody's looking better bythe second.
George W Bush is looking betterby the second.
It mattered to him.
He was Dr Spock in terms ofwhere he put people.
We didn't have a great, in fact,we had no desire to be in
Washington, nothing againstWashington.
(06:42):
It just wasn't a big attractionfor us.
But both my wife and I spentmeaningful amount of time
overseas as adults, and we eachindependently.
And then when we fell in loveand got married, then as a
couple came to the overwhelmingconclusion gosh, wouldn't it
have been nicer for us as kidsto have lived overseas?
(07:02):
My family would never havedreamt of that because we
couldn't put two nickelstogether.
And we both agreed.
You know what, if we arefortunate enough to have kids,
let's try to find a goodexperience for all of us.
And it turned out, having beena Goldman, first single and then
married.
Speaking some German, knowing alittle bit about Germany, having
met Angela Merkel and a few ofthe other, by the way, including
(07:25):
Friedrich Merz, who just becamechancellor in early May, I
think I don't want to speak forPresident Obama, but there was
logic to us being in Berlin.
And then, when you add to thata very fair premise of your
question as a banker, we knewthe economy.
We not only knew some of theplayers, some of the language,
but also some of the economicdrivers, and it so happened our
(07:47):
time in Berlin coincided withthe European sovereign debt
crisis.
So that was something that Ihad more than a passing in terms
of capital markets and morethan a passing understanding of.
So it was a lousy experience interms of the markets and the
economic crisis, but fortuitousfor me in terms of the skills
that I could rely on.
(08:09):
It was an extraordinaryexperience.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
On that topic about your experience with the
financial industry.
I read that you started as anintern at Goldman Sachs and then
you worked your way up to thetop of that industry, and the
amount of experience alsointernationally that you have is
that what brought you to whenyou started to go into
(08:32):
government?
Could you see things in a wayand feel like you have brought
that type of experience to thejob?
Is that one of the greatestfeatures?
Because when we look at whatyou've done over your last seven
years, it looks like thatexperience is really showing.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, it certainly helped.
I mean, I lived my little tinyversion of the American dream.
I did start as a summer intern.
I think I had one suit, it waspolyester.
I had a Samsonite briefcase.
I had no bankers in my familyor in my life briefcase.
I had no bankers in my familyor in my life.
So the fact that the matchactually took in my life is one
(09:10):
of those small miracles.
And then the internationalexperience.
So not just Wall Street,capital markets, but dealing
with CEOs across the tablearound the world, ultimately
running some global businessesin my case private wealth
management, asset managementdidn't quite make it to the top,
got to the management committee, so the top 15 or 20 folks, but
(09:31):
an extraordinary experience.
And if you flip forward to NewJersey, New Jersey was a wreck
when we got into office and oneof the dimensions of that wreck
was it was a fiscal wreck and itneeded to get itself back on
its feet.
The economy wasn't growing,there were huge inequities and
we had become a veryirresponsible, poorly run, in
(09:52):
particular fiscallyirresponsible, state.
So, when I first ran I got awhole lot of crap about being a
Goldman Sachs banker,particularly given one of my
predecessors also was a GoldmanSachs banker and a dear friend
that has died down over theyears.
Yeah, people realize maybethere was some relevance of that
(10:12):
experience into what New Jerseyneeded and you know we're not
perfect by a long shot.
But I think we've made a goodamount of progress on that front
and that experience has beenvery important to that progress.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
It was also because we were looking up about the
pension, the funding thepensions, and I didn't really
understand what that meant.
And, jeanette, we were sort ofexplaining.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I was like I was so impressed with the pension part
of the budget and how you turnedthat around.
When you look at theaccomplishments that you have
had over the last seven yearsand a couple of change, I'm sure
that that is one of them.
But what are some of theaccomplishments that you really
look to?
That when you started and now,as you're leaving, that you
(11:00):
really are proud of?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, we've got about six or seven months to run and
we're going to sprint throughthe tape.
I'm not into the legacy thing,I'm not into patting myself on
the back, but I'll give you acouple of at a very high level,
a couple of things that I thinkare notable.
One is, as we speak, morepeople live in this state than
ever before.
More people are employed in thestate than ever before.
(11:23):
There are more businesses inoperation than ever before.
So one of our big focuses wason growing the economy.
We hadn't grown prior to ourtime here.
We were sort of sideways for along time, so I'm proud of that.
We've particularly emphasizedrecapturing our place in the
startup economy.
(11:43):
We used to be really good atbirthing companies.
That skill had migratedelsewhere, to California, new
York City, boston, et cetera,austin, texas.
We're now back in that lane ina big way In terms of venture
capital destination, as onemetric we're only now behind New
York and California, andthey're a lot bigger than we are
(12:04):
, so that's a good place.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
That's impressive.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Which is big.
Secondly, I would say, inequities, that we have shrunk
and we still have work to do oneverything, including this, but
we were horrifically inequitableas a state, particularly across
racial lines and secondarily,I'd say, across gender lines,
and we've closed a lot of thosegaps, whether it's wealth
disparity, our clemencyinitiatives, access to housing,
(12:31):
social determinants of healthparticularly my wife's lived in
the infant and maternal healthspace.
So the second bucket would bewe've shrunk a lot of inequities
.
Our work is far from done.
We still have a lot of progressyet to be made there.
And then the third one is whatyou all were alluding to being
fiscally responsible andreliable.
(12:52):
We're obligated to make ourpension payment.
We hadn't made it in 25 years.
This will be the fifth year ina row, with the budget I signed
later in June, that we will havemade it, by the way, $7.1
billion a year, which includesan enormous penalty for all
those years that we hadn't paidit.
Rating agencies that haveupgraded us, basically doing
(13:13):
business, if you will, in aresponsible, reliable way.
So those are the three bucketsthat we are obsessed with, that
we spend 99% of our time with,and I feel good about the
progress.
Again, we're not perfect, we'renot done yet, we probably won't
even be done when we're doneRight, but we've reset the state
across all three of those veryimportant buckets.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Right.
So the budget that you just putout recently, I believe it's 50
, I have it down $55 billion andI think that's the concern is
that can we maintain that highlevel because our taxes are so
high?
The basic thing is our propertytaxes are so high and the
budget's just ballooning.
How do you respond to such asimple question like that?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, so has the budget gone up since we've been
in office.
Absolutely Guess what thebudget goes up when you inherit
a state that didn't pay itsbills.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So the year before we got here the pension payment
maybe was a billion.
I forget what the number was.
We will have just printed.
Assuming the budget lands whereI think it'll land, we will
have put more money into thepension system than the prior
six governors combined.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right, whoa, they were not paying it.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
We never fully funded our school funding formula.
We have now funded it fully.
We're the only administrationin the history of the state.
So my point is has the budgetgone up?
Yeah, have we made investmentsthat we think are smart?
Yes, we've done that too, butthat's what happens when you
inherit a state that didn't payits bills, and shame on the
(14:53):
critics who don't have thecourage to point that out.
Secondly, can we continue toafford it?
Very good question.
That's why our emphasis hasbeen overwhelmingly on growing
the economy, and the answer isbased on where I sit now, not
just this budget, but, as I lookto the future, we absolutely
can afford it.
That doesn't mean we don't doeverything we can to make the
(15:16):
life of families in this statemore affordable.
We have record property taxrelief in this budget, all-time
highs.
We do everything we can to makethe state a good value for
money state.
We're never going to be thelow-cost state when you have the
number one public educationsystem in America, which we just
that mantle was reaffirmed byUS News and World Report last
(15:38):
month.
When you've got top fivehealthcare quality, when you've
got top quality of life.
More broadly, location second tonone, all the things that we
offer as a state that doesn'tcome cheap.
The point is Not to be thewould I love to be a low cost
guy on the planet, you betcha,but that's not who we are.
(15:59):
I want to make sure for youfolks like you and your families
living in Montclair to pick anexample that you have a good
value for money proposition.
This may not be cheap, but boydo I get a lot back for that.
That, to me, is New Jersey'srightful resting place, and I
think that's where we are andwe'll continue to do everything
we can to stay there.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And are you feeling, by attracting VCs and things
like that and companies likethat and Netflix which was that
wonderful we saw those photosand the film tax breaks you've
done a lot for the film industryto bring them back to New
Jersey and to shoot here and dotheir work here that that will
give us the funds that we'llneed.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So we're.
We used to be.
Yes the answer.
If this got cut off right now,the answer is emphatically yes.
New Jersey used to be what Iwould call a metal bender state.
We made cars, trucks, chemicalsfor some good reasons, some bad
reasons.
The fact of the matter isthat's not who we are anymore,
and it hasn't been for a while.
I think when you wake up in themorning, we, as the three of us
(17:04):
, as individuals, a company, afoundation, certainly a state
you have to look in the mirrorand be cold-blooded about who
you are, who you're not, whatyou can be, what you can't be
and then play the hand that youwere dealt and maximize that
hand.
And so when I look in the mirrorputting aside what I look like,
(17:26):
which please keep me in yourprayers when I see New Jersey, I
see an innovation economy.
I see pharmaceutical, bio, lifescience, tech, telecom,
increasingly generativeartificial intelligence, film,
television, digital, greeneconomy, fintech, financial
technology, fintech, sportsbetting not just the handle,
(17:49):
which we lead the nation andhave been for seven years, but I
mean the guts of the industry,the technology, the jobs.
That's who we are.
Let's own that space, let'sdominate in those industries and
in that space Photonics.
No other state in the nation is.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Can you explain what that is?
What is photonics?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
No, I can't explain.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
But what in the world ?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Like photons.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
We'll look it up and we'll put it on the screen.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
This is extreme value-added, highly engineered
industries, and photonics isamong them.
We've launched 10 strategicinnovation centers.
One of them is with PrincetonUniversity, the NJAI Hub with.
State of New Jersey, princetonMJ AI Hub with state of New
(18:38):
Jersey, princeton Microsoft Core, which is an emerging mega
player in AI.
I'll bet you we'll do one inphotonics or in that sort of
neighborhood before we're done.
But just think highly valueadded, highly technical, the
very high end of engineeringengineering.
I'll give you one data pointbefore I shut up.
(18:59):
Here is New Jersey is thehighest concentration of
scientists, engineers, researchprofessionals per square mile in
the world.
Really, that's amazing.
My point is be clear-eyed aboutwho you are and dominate where
you're good and just resist thetemptation to go a field into
areas where you're not and justresist the temptation to go up a
field into areas where you'renot going to be as competitive.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, that's good life advice also for all college
students graduating Look in themirror and see what you're also
what you're good at.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
You bet.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, I mean it definitely makes you very Jersey
proud hearing all that'shappening in New Jersey and also
you're you're known also forthe clean energy.
How are you feeling about thatsector and the work that you've
done in that area?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well with the Trump administration.
Not very good at the moment.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
They have really gummed up our offshore wind
program, which was the largestin the country.
I still hope we'll get thatback on its feet, but they have
been absolutely on the wrongside of history.
If you care about climatechange and the environment,
these guys I love to thinkotherwise and I desperately try
to find common ground with thepresident and his people, and
(20:10):
we're able to do that from timeto time, but this is not one of
those areas.
So I feel really good aboutwhat we've done inside.
I could say this about a lot ofthings right now I feel really
good about what we've doneinside.
I could say this about a lot ofthings right now I feel really
good about what we've doneinside the four walls of Jersey.
On climate, we've led thenation for the past seven and a
half years.
Thanks to my wife and a lot ofgreat legislators, we're the
only state in the nation thatteaches climate change in our.
(20:33):
K-12 curriculum.
Is that because we're woke orprogressive?
Yeah, I'm a proud progressive,but I'm also a cold-blooded
capitalist.
That's the real reason is sothat when those kids graduate,
that they know everything theyneed to know about that industry
and that they will succeed, getgreat paying jobs, have a real
multi-decade career in thatspace.
(20:54):
No other state does that, butI'm really down and depressed
about the national picture onthat front.
As much as good as I feel aboutwhat we've done, I feel really
negative about where it's headednationally.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, the fact that the governors really are the
first line of defense to protecttheir people in their state.
And then you have changing.
You've been through multipleadministrations that are, you
know, believe in what you'redoing and then don't believe in
what you're doing.
How much of a whiplash is thatfor you and how do you manage
(21:30):
that and manage to do you havelike a daily mantra or how do
you stay steady as the governorof this state?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
So this is a fact as opposed to something that I'm
promoting.
If you will, I'm the longestserving Democratic governor
alongside Donald Trump aspresident, and that included
three years in his first timethrough, and we largely
coexisted.
He was to his credit, and histeam early in the pandemic were
(21:58):
exceptionally important to us,saving lives.
And people hear that now andthey say what are you talking
about?
But in the first few months inearly in the spring and early
summer of 2020, we were talkingliterally almost every day and
he and his team his son-in-law,jared Kushner, in particular
were extremely important to oursaving lives.
(22:19):
Again, I know folks now hearthat and they say that's crazy,
but it's true.
I look back on the three yearsthat we overlapped on this first
time through almost you'regoing to laugh at this, almost
with a fondness.
You know we were able to findcommon ground on the one hand
and then fight like hell for thevalues and the communities that
(22:40):
were being impacted or attacked.
Then we had four years ofPresident Biden and largely not
entirely, but largelysympathetic agendas both in
Washington and here in NewJersey, and now this and this is
a completely different ballgame.
Okay, yeah, I don't know, thisis true, but I'll bet you they
(23:03):
didn't think they were going towin in 2016.
When they did win, they weren'treally sure-.
What to do with it what leversto pull and whatnot.
They surrounded themselves withat least some institutionalists
.
All of that's different.
They were supremely confident.
They know exactly what they'redoing.
There are no institutionalists,and this is really really hard
(23:25):
right now.
This is 24-7 hand-to-handcombat, still trying to find
common ground.
And we have.
But boy, there's a lot of stuffthat we're battling a lot of it
in court.
It's not easy right now.
Can you give us sympathy?
But it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
No, no, I mean, we're watching it, we're watching.
Can you tell us, like right now, when you wake up in the
morning, what are the issuesthat you are shifting to the
federal, as we're talking about,that are on your desk, that you
really are urgently trying todeal with?
I know that we have this big,beautiful bill that just passed.
(24:01):
It's about to go into theSenate, so I'm assuming that's
one of them, but what are thesethings that you're?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
looking at.
Yeah, that's the top of thelist and when this airs it'll be
interesting to see where theSenate has landed with the House
bill that got passed by onevote.
That's the 800-pound gorillaright now.
This is billions of dollars toNew Jersey that we are getting
now that we won't getOverwhelmingly Medicaid, snap or
(24:29):
food stamps, planned Parenthood, other things overwhelmingly
directed at the lower incomestrata of our residents.
Billions.
It also means, depending on theprogram, probably, I'll say
hundreds of thousands of folksthat will go without.
They'll be taken off the rolls,whatever the rolls might be,
(24:51):
due to work requirements inMedicaid or some other factor.
And the real tragedy.
So that's tragic period.
The further tragedy is no state, including New Jersey, has
remotely the kind of money lyingaround the pocket money if you
will to compensate for thosecuts.
So folks will go without.
Maybe on the margin we can trimsome of the pain and we will
(25:13):
continue to try to do that.
But this is awful, this is notAmerican, it's just awful, awful
, awful.
That's the big 800-poundgorilla.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
It is, do we?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
have immigration challenges, you betcha, but in
terms of the overwhelming sortof tidal wave impact, of the
biggest scale impact on NewJersey, it's this awful, big,
beautiful bill.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Well, it seems that it's framing it as an
immigration.
It's marketing it as animmigration solution, but it
really is not that.
That it doesn't seem to bereally what it is.
It's really just a gutting ofthe Medicaid system.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
They're hiding behind phrases which are Orwellian
like this is about waste, fraudand abuse.
Right, you know what?
If there's waste, fraud andabuse, sign me up.
I want to get rid of that too.
That's not what this is about.
We do roundtables with folkswho are impacted.
We did one in Westfield a fewweeks ago.
There was nobody at that tabletaking advantage of the system,
(26:14):
and, I might add, there wasnobody at that table.
These were six or sevenfamilies who have nowhere else
to turn if Medicaid is cut.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That was very moving.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Nobody at that table could work if they wanted to.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So this work requirement stuff is complete BS
roundtable for Medicaid and itwas very moving.
And the thing that reallystruck me was where will people
go?
The institutions are removedfor people who need intense care
(26:47):
like this.
And then I thought it was veryinteresting because onto women's
reproductive rights and howmuch they care about you know
lives that it's just like aconflict of interest between the
Republicans saying they careabout people and babies and
everyone.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
They want you to have more babies.
They want to control women'sreproductive freedoms.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But not support them.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
They will literally kill people with this bill.
They will.
They will literally go withoutand die and the blood is on
their hands.
It's despicable.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Well, something that I'd like to point out about this
is the cascading effects.
Everyone thinks it's going toaffect someone that they might
not know.
They don't know it's peoplethey don't know.
But I've told Rachel thisseveral times is that I'm part.
This is a side thing that I do.
I work for.
A lot of projects that I workfor are international and I
(27:41):
build tech and web developmentfor USAID projects.
You would never think you wouldnever think that cutting that
would have so many cascadingeffects.
And I was even talking to myaccountant.
I was like you know, you'regoing to lose your job because
we don't have jobs anymore.
People are not considering whenthey just think I don't want
(28:03):
immigrants getting health care.
You know, it's just.
It's a little bit of a petpeeve of mine that I'm like you
don't look.
Look at the cascading effect.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Well, it's personal.
It's also personal I thinkwe're all sort of trying to
figure out.
You know, as you know, thatpeople are going to the polls to
vote on June 10th for, you know, the primaries for the
governorship, and people areworried about the Democrats
message and how we can hold itup against the Republican
(28:31):
message and what is themessaging?
And it's hard when you feelwell, when I feel that you know
certain facts don't matter.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Is there like a secret meeting of Democratic
leaders that they're like, OK,let's get on board.
What's our message?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, it's extremely frustrating.
Before I take a stab at that,just to give you one.
Back to Jeanette's commentabout the unintended
consequences and the cascading,I'll give you one that we get.
I mean the Trump stuff Nicksays big time.
About five or six years ago, Isigned a law that would give
folks access to a driver'slicense, regardless of their
(29:10):
immigration status.
So the folks on the other sidewoke, woke, woke, woke.
You know why we did it.
Here's why we did it Because weactually did our research and
the states with the safest roadsin America are those that allow
everybody to get access to adriver's license.
Meaning you have to go throughdriver's ed, you have to take a
(29:31):
test, you have to take a roadtest, you have to read an eye
test, you have to re-up overtime.
That's why we did it.
So there's this feeling like,well, it's for them.
Well, it is.
I guess, if you're trying toget to work and we heard some
incredible stories about, youknow, buses and trains and
walking, yes, it is quoteunquote about them.
(29:52):
It's for all of us, it's tomake our roads safer for all of
us, for everyone.
Yeah, terms of coherence, we'restarting to get our mojo back,
I think, kind of for all thewrong reasons, I would argue,
because everybody's now startingto wake up and realizing that
(30:13):
some of this stuff is crazy.
Trump's poll numbers arestarting to go down, the stock
market is wobbly, the bondmarket is wobbly.
Our allies are questioningwhether or not we're a reliable
partner anymore.
The first move on thechessboard to end the war in
Ukraine is to side with theRussians.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Hello.
So that's starting to impactpeople deeply.
I think for the first fewmonths post-election, we were
all deer in the headlight.
Now it's beginning to bite andI think that's politically for
all the wrong reasons a goodthing.
As you rightfully point out, wehave, I think about a week
after this podcast goes up, wehave the primary for governor.
(30:55):
You've got six Democrats thathave a legitimate shot.
You've got three or fourRepublicans with a legitimate
shot, although they feel likethey're much more baked than we
are, and we'll see.
I think this is going to be avery close, tough general
election.
President Trump did a lot betterlast year than he did in 2016
(31:15):
or in 2020 in New Jersey.
I know he personally feels asthough Jersey's winnable.
Typically, the textbook wouldsay the Democrat would be
favored because you're runningagainst.
Really what?
Just the election in Washingtonand what's happening?
But on the other side of it,putting aside his better
performance last year, it's hardto staple three terms together
(31:36):
of the same party.
Historically, that would beunusual.
I've had two.
I was the first Democrat to getreelected in 44 years.
Can we find the magic again andget a third Democratic term,
albeit with a different governor?
I'm obviously I'm not takingsides in the primary but in the
general.
I will be all in to see thathappen, but I think it'll be
(31:57):
very, very close.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well, I was to Rachel's point about the
messaging for the DemocraticParty and the way that the
landscape has changed so much.
You said it's hand-to-handcombat every day.
From the time that you we werekind of laughing that you had
worked for Howard Dean and thathe showed a little bit of anger
and his campaign was over right,and today what he did was just
(32:22):
so minor, so incredibly minor,and so the landscape has changed
so much and it really does seemto be more about emotions and
not about facts.
It seems to be getting toculture and thoughts and
feelings and the DemocraticParty seems to lead with the
facts you know, and discredit tosome extent the culture,
(32:46):
heritage and values of theRepublican Party, which causes
this backlash.
So I'm wondering is there kindof a pivot to maybe being a more
less throwing out facts andrules?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
and you know, bring back the Howard Dean screen
bring back the Howard Dean.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
like you know, I'm mad.
Like we are doing a good job,like do you not realize the
cascading effects of this thing?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Listen.
They're probably, I think,showing our raw side.
Assuming it's real and it's notfabricated is always not always
it didn't work for Howard, butI think sort of showing our
anger is not a bad thing.
Bernie and AOC have been doingthat successfully and this is,
you know, to their credit period.
The history would suggest wehave to attract a chunk of
(33:34):
people in the middle.
Trump, go figure, was able todo that.
We have to be able to do that.
I would, if you look beyond thisyear, there are only two
statewide races, by the way dothat.
If you look beyond this year,there are only two statewide
races, by the way, in America inthe year after a presidential
New Jersey and Virginiagovernor's races.
Virginia feels like it's comingour way.
You never put anything in thebank at this time of the year.
(33:58):
And then New Jersey, I think,will be really nip and tuck.
If you look at next year midtermelections, you have 36
governor's races next year withonly two this year.
But you've got all of the House, a third of the Senate.
I would be optimistic on theHouse.
I'd be pretty shocked if wedidn't win the House back.
(34:19):
I'd be pretty surprised notshocked if we win the Senate
back, not because of lack ofemotion, but the map, you all
know this.
But when you have only a thirdof the Senate back, not because
of lack of emotion, but the map,you all know this.
But when you have only a thirdof the chamber up, it matters
what third that is and whereyou're defending and where
they're defending and whatnot.
So we'll see.
But I think the short answer isshowing our emotion right now
(34:41):
has to be a good thing.
It has to be Without abandoningthe basic facts and principles
to prove our case.
I think there's no reason whyboth of those can't exist.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Well, moving on, we do want to know a little bit
about your relationship.
You said that you do cometogether a little bit with
Donald Trump on a couple ofissues.
Is there something about DonaldTrump and his governing style
or some of the policies he's putforward that you agree with?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
that you connect with him on so we have a
relationship and there aren'tmany Democrats who do In part.
By the way, I'm the governor ofNew Jersey and he's going to be
as we're taping this.
He's flying in this afternoon.
This is, I'd say, of his twostates of interest right now,
this is second behind Floridaand we've found common ground
over the years.
In his first term it wasinfrastructure and I mentioned
(35:34):
secondly, and as a life anddeath matter, the early days of
COVID.
Some of his principles I have noquibble with.
He wants to manufacture morestuff in America, so do I.
He wants a more efficientgovernment.
Sign me up.
He wants to manufacture morestuff in America, so do I.
He wants a more efficientgovernment Sign me up.
He wants wars to end and peaceto break out.
Who doesn't?
It is less in those areas.
(35:56):
Other principles I'm not goingto agree with.
It's not the principle, it'sthe execution around those three
things.
That is, I'd say, disastrous.
Tariffs are not the way to makemore stuff in America.
In New Jersey right now I'mworking with the legislature on
a big $500 million manufacturingincentive for multinationals
(36:19):
who are worried about tariffs tosay come on into New Jersey,
make your stuff here and we'llhelp make the finances work for
you.
On government efficiency, Ithought with Elon Musk, who's a
tech genius and pretty much nota genius away from anything
related to technology, that'sfor sure you would think back in
November I was hoping you knowwhat we're going to see stuff in
(36:42):
his efficiency endeavors thatwe're going to be able to learn
from.
I mentioned we're gettingreally big into generative
artificial intelligence.
We're training all 61,000 folkswho work in state government on
AI and how to upskill theirjobs.
There's been none of that.
It's complete.
The Marx brothers are in chargeof that department.
(37:04):
And then I mentioned a fewminutes ago peace over war.
Yes, absolutely, but thatdoesn't mean getting in bed with
the Russians who started thewar, right, so it's just, it's
less.
So.
Those principles I share, butthe execution is God awful.
There's no strategic overlay.
There's no hey, wait a minute,let's be really clever about
(37:24):
this.
And that's where I think thisis falling down right now.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
On that.
Are you looking forward totaking a break from politics?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I haven't really thought about it.
I know our time is ticking here.
So I should at least say thatwe're running through the tape,
and if we weren't alreadyrunning through the tape thanks
to the stuff that's coming at usout of Washington, weren't
already running through the tapethanks to the stuff that's
coming at us out of Washington,any amount of time that I could
have otherwise devoted tothinking about what's next you
(37:54):
don't have time yet.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I get it.
Well, that makes sense.
I've never been busier than Iam right now.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, I see that I see that we can wrap this up,
because we know you're busy, butwe'd like to end our
conversations with a couple offun things about Jersey.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
We want to know first off the mountains or the shore
of New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I love them both, but I lean shore.
Okay, and it's funny Our lakesget undersold.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
The lakes are amazing .
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Part of the beauty of our state and I tell you, every
summer I go up and have lunchon Lake Hopatcong with the four
or five mares that havecommunities that abut the lake.
But I'm a shore guy.
We spend as many weekends as wecan on the shore.
We live literally as we speak.
I'm three and a half miles fromthe ocean.
The Jersey Shore is anincredible asset for New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Okay, and the next one.
This one is Rachel's, which Ilove that she said and I feel
like you've already done this alittle bit, but what is your
elevator pitch for New?
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Jersey.
I'll tell you what I think.
Every state has a bumpersticker and ours is the number
one state in America to raise afamily.
I love that and that to meembodies a whole lot of other
stuff that I could.
If the elevator were going tothe, my wife and I did her at an
event last week on thehundredth floor in New York city
.
That elevator I could give youa lot more details on, but if
(39:16):
it's just going from the groundfloor to the third floor, you
just got it.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Well, that's why Jeanette and I both moved here.
It was to raise our families.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, I mean we bought our house.
I'm not from here, my wife'snot from here.
We bought our house explicitlyto raise our kids here.
It was the best move we evermade.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Exactly, we are not from here either, and that's why
we were lost in Jersey, but welove it.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I have a question.
I know totally lost in Jersey,so I have a question about that.
So when you first decided, howdid you decide to move to New
Jersey, like what?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
was the impetus.
It didn't pick Long Island,where I grew up or you know
Westchester.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I'll tell you what the story was.
We were working for GoldmanSachs, by the way, for a
separate podcast.
We got engaged 18 days afterour first date, so we can talk
about that.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I don't know if that's separate Cause.
That is kind of amazing and Idon't understand how that
happened.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
It's true.
Don't try that at home, by theway.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Do you tell your kids to do that or no?
Speaker 3 (40:14):
No, we tell them not to do what we did.
Jesus.
Please don't do that.
But we've been married for 31years this summer, so it worked
years this summer it worked out.
It worked out okay, best thingthat ever happened to me.
So we were working for Goldmanoverseas.
We got married early in ourtime in Germany.
We then moved to Asia, gotpregnant in the process with our
(40:35):
first child, and so one of thethings we noticed is that most
of the folks that Goldman hadasked to go overseas did not end
up spending the amount of timethat they thought they were
going to spend overseas.
They either got the tour, gotcut early or it stayed late.
So when we got pregnant withour oldest, we said you know
(40:56):
what that could happen to us?
The chances were overwhelminglylikely that we would.
If we were cut short, it wouldbe to go back to headquarters in
New York.
We should really start lookingat Metro New York and have a
place, not just a home, but alsopick out a school.
So we looked all over.
We looked in New York City, welooked in Westchester.
(41:17):
We didn't do a whole lot inLong Island.
We looked in Jersey, but atfirst we didn't look on the
shore.
And then a friend of ours wholived at the time in Colts Neck,
which is not too far from wherewe live today, said you got to
check out the Two Rivers areaand we live in what is called
the Two Rivers area in MonmouthCounty and we, as they said,
(41:38):
jerry Maguire, they had us athello.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, you were like this is it?
This is it.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
It was just a matter of then finding the house, and
we ultimately got lucky andfound our home.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
And you just moved in and decided to become the
governor.
You're like you know what.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
It was a little bit more complicated than that.
Yeah, what the heck.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Okay, so here's another question Is there your
go-to New Jersey sightseeingspot for somebody that is
visiting you?
Where do you take them?
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Island Beach State Park.
In fact, we have a dear friendwho is going to have dinner with
us down there tonight and spendthe night with us.
One of the very few perks onthe list of being governor is
that there is a wonderful homeon Island Beach State Park.
This is the infamous photo ofChris Christie on the beach.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Really.
So you take him there, is therelike a little?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
shrine for him there, like a little post, like a
beach chair and a beer.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
The beach chair is still there, but there's no
shrine.
But the shore, and Island Beachin particular is an incredible
gem.
It's a 10 mile long barrierisland, unspoiled.
It was named, I think two tothree years ago, as the number
one state park in America.
Clearly, if it's January, I'mprobably not going there.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
But if it's Memorial Day to Labor Day, or even the
shoulder months, that's whereI'm taking somebody.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Awesome.
And then what do you put onyour pizza?
What toppings?
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I'm simple Plain, plain Tomato and cheese.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
All right.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Don't eat it with a knife and fork, in case you're
wondering.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I wasn't going to even ask that.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Darn hands.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, Good good.
I can't imagine that wenormally close out our
interviews with the question ofwhat do you love about New
Jersey?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
I think it's our character, our grit, our
attitude.
We're from Jersey, baby.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
That's what I love about New Jersey too, no other
state in America could say thatwith the same amount of you
talking to me.
You know one of my great linesthat Brendan Byrne, one of my
predecessors, had, which saysall you need to say about Jersey
.
This is to Governor Byrne howdid you know that you were no
longer governor?
And his answer was becauseeverybody started waving at me
(43:46):
with all five fingers.
That's Jersey.
So it's our attitude character.
There's also a big amount oftolerance in there.
We're the most diverse state inAmerica.
We're the most denselypopulated state in America.
We live on top of each other.
You can't help but walk in theother guy's shoes.
I just think we are a veryspecial, very unique state.
(44:11):
I've been chair of the NationalGovernors Association.
I was twice chair of theDemocratic Governors Association
.
I say that seven and a halfyears in.
I know enough to be dangerous.
There's no other state like us.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
That's the best.
Thank you so much, GovernorMurphy.
This was a blast.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
We loved it.
It was so nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Look forward to giving you each a high five in
person, I hope soon in the later.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Hi Jeanette, hi Rachel.
We just had a great interviewwith Governor Phil Murphy of New
Jersey.
Yes, it was such a greatinterview.
We talked about his background,some of the things that he's
proud of that has happenedduring his last seven years, and
some of the things he still hason his desk to deal with, which
is quite a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yes, we have a primary coming up on June 10.
We're one of only two stateshaving a governor election in
November.
So a lot is going on in thestate of New Jersey right now
and obviously in the UnitedStates of America, so we do
touch upon a lot of differenttopics.
How he grew up, how he got here.
He's really fascinating andjust a lovely person and very
(00:40):
easy to talk to.
Yep Enjoy this interview.
Very easy to talk to Yep.
Enjoy this interview.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Welcome, governor Murphy to Lost in Jersey.
It's so nice to have you on theshow.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I love it.
This evokes the famous lyricfrom Rosalita, Somewhere in the
Swamps of Jersey.
The boss, I'm thrilled to bewith you.
Ladies, thanks for having meno-transcript.
(01:12):
I'm a big boss fan.
I was on with him texting backand forth yesterday telling him
to stay strong out there inEurope as he's going through his
next month and a half.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
He's a beacon of light for a lot of Americans
right now that are wishing theycould be with him in Europe,
yeah, amen.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
His sentiments are appreciated by a lot of people.
We wanted to structure thisinterview in a way that we can
really kind of.
How we always interview peopleis we wanna know your background
.
Even though some people mayknow it, some people might not,
but there's always some thingsthat we discover about people
when we learn about where theygrew up and their journey to
where they are today.
So can you give us a little bitabout your background?
(01:52):
I believe that you're not fromNew Jersey.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, most of my background gets me no votes in
New Jersey, so another reasonI'm probably blessed to be term
limited at this point.
Born in Boston, literally Grewup just west of Boston.
Youngest of four, I havedescribed my family which I
think is a very accurate middleclass.
On a good day there's anacronym called ALICE A-L-I-C-E
(02:18):
Asset Limited, incomeConstrained but Employed, and I
think that describes my mom anddad in our situation.
My dad never graduated fromhigh school really brilliant guy
but wasn't a school guy.
My mom did graduate from highschool.
That was her last degree.
He made sure we cared aboutpublic service and politics and
(02:39):
current events.
She made sure we got aneducation and all of us did.
Public school guy.
Got into Harvard University ona scholarship, majored in
economics, beginning in middleschool, high school and college.
Big theatrical guy I'm still atheatrical junkie.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I love that Rachel wants to talk to you about that.
You're going to have to pausefor a moment.
Yeah, I was very much, I lovethe musical theater.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I was very excited to read that about you.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, so that's still a passion, and I was very much.
I love the musical theater.
I was very excited to read thatabout you, so that's still a
passion.
And I was the first guy ever tobe this.
This in $4.09 will get you agrande latte at Starbucks, but I
was the first guy ever toappear in four hasty pudding
theatricals productionsalongside a classmate named
David Merrill.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That's a first.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
That was a first At the time.
It was a first.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Wow, I love that.
That's where the achievementstarted after getting into a
very, very good school.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
That's when you got a taste of auditioning for
something and getting the partlike running for office and
getting the part.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
That's true.
I just gave a commencementaddress at University of
Pennsylvania Law School and Imade the point that you could
have worse training than theater.
If you have an aspiration to bein politics or government, it
allows you to.
It's true.
There's always somebody whoforgets their line, or the
scenery collapses, or peoplelaugh when they're not supposed
to laugh or applaud when they'renot supposed to, and you've got
(04:01):
to be able to think on yourfeet and keep going.
Yeah so that part of my life hasbeen important.
I then sold textbooks for twoyears.
I would not recommend that ifthe podcast does not work out
for the two of you.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, I don't think that industry is thriving right
now.
My husband's a professor, youknow, textbooks are really not
being used.
They're not it.
Yeah, are really not being used.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
They're not.
It, yeah, got a master's inbusiness at the Wharton School
at UPenn and basically worked onWall Street at Goldman Sachs
around the world for the next 20odd years New York, germany,
hong Kong, back to New Yorkrunning some global businesses
and then hung up my Wall Streetcleats, became the national
(04:47):
finance chair for the DemocraticNational Committee.
I was a big believer in HowardDean's 50-state strategy.
That was a volunteer positionbut I did it full-time, raised a
lot of money.
That got Congress back to ourside, got Barack Obama elected.
He then asked me to be ourambassador to the Federal
Republic of Germany and then wecame back from Germany and never
(05:11):
expecting to run for office,and one thing led to another.
We started a think tank.
We took what was going on inNew Jersey at sort of a policy
level very seriously, ultimatelydecided to run and got elected
twice.
I've left out the mostimportant part.
I've been married going on 31years to Tammy.
We have four kids Josh 27, emma25, charlie 23, sam 21, two
(05:35):
dogs and a goldfish.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Wow, wait, a goldfish .
That's surprising, that isactually surprising.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Actually our son Charlie's.
He brought it home when hegraduated from Princeton a
couple years ago.
I think it's the world'slongest living goldfish.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I would say normally when you say you have a goldfish
, you have like a four-year-old,not a 21-year-old.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
But yeah, that's amazing.
Trust me on that one I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
When we were talking we were talking about the
ambassador to Germany part,because we were really
fascinated also knowing aboutthe Goldman Sachs part, where
you were over there in Germanyworking and how you were
learning some German and alsounderstanding the economy there
and what was going on.
And then going back as anambassador what was that like
(06:21):
for you?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
So, at least in his first term.
One comment about Barack ObamaI thought was great at the time
and he's looking better by thesecond.
Everybody's looking better bythe second.
George W Bush is looking betterby the second.
It mattered to him.
He was Dr Spock in terms ofwhere he put people.
We didn't have a great, in fact,we had no desire to be in
Washington, nothing againstWashington.
(06:42):
It just wasn't a big attractionfor us.
But both my wife and I spentmeaningful amount of time
overseas as adults, and we eachindependently.
And then when we fell in loveand got married, then as a
couple came to the overwhelmingconclusion gosh, wouldn't it
have been nicer for us as kidsto have lived overseas?
(07:02):
My family would never havedreamt of that because we
couldn't put two nickelstogether.
And we both agreed.
You know what, if we arefortunate enough to have kids,
let's try to find a goodexperience for all of us.
And it turned out, having beena Goldman, first single and then
married.
Speaking some German, knowing alittle bit about Germany, having
met Angela Merkel and a few ofthe other, by the way, including
(07:25):
Friedrich Merz, who just becamechancellor in early May, I
think I don't want to speak forPresident Obama, but there was
logic to us being in Berlin.
And then, when you add to thata very fair premise of your
question as a banker, we knewthe economy.
We not only knew some of theplayers, some of the language,
but also some of the economicdrivers, and it so happened our
(07:47):
time in Berlin coincided withthe European sovereign debt
crisis.
So that was something that Ihad more than a passing in terms
of capital markets and morethan a passing understanding of.
So it was a lousy experience interms of the markets and the
economic crisis, but fortuitousfor me in terms of the skills
that I could rely on.
(08:09):
It was an extraordinaryexperience.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
On that topic about your experience with the
financial industry.
I read that you started as anintern at Goldman Sachs and then
you worked your way up to thetop of that industry, and the
amount of experience alsointernationally that you have is
that what brought you to whenyou started to go into
(08:32):
government?
Could you see things in a wayand feel like you have brought
that type of experience to thejob?
Is that one of the greatestfeatures?
Because when we look at whatyou've done over your last seven
years, it looks like thatexperience is really showing.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, it certainly helped.
I mean, I lived my little tinyversion of the American dream.
I did start as a summer intern.
I think I had one suit, it waspolyester.
I had a Samsonite briefcase.
I had no bankers in my familyor in my life briefcase.
I had no bankers in my familyor in my life.
So the fact that the matchactually took in my life is one
(09:10):
of those small miracles.
And then the internationalexperience.
So not just Wall Street,capital markets, but dealing
with CEOs across the tablearound the world, ultimately
running some global businessesin my case private wealth
management, asset managementdidn't quite make it to the top,
got to the management committee, so the top 15 or 20 folks, but
(09:31):
an extraordinary experience.
And if you flip forward to NewJersey, New Jersey was a wreck
when we got into office and oneof the dimensions of that wreck
was it was a fiscal wreck and itneeded to get itself back on
its feet.
The economy wasn't growing,there were huge inequities and
we had become a veryirresponsible, poorly run, in
(09:52):
particular fiscallyirresponsible, state.
So, when I first ran I got awhole lot of crap about being a
Goldman Sachs banker,particularly given one of my
predecessors also was a GoldmanSachs banker and a dear friend
that has died down over theyears.
Yeah, people realize maybethere was some relevance of that
(10:12):
experience into what New Jerseyneeded and you know we're not
perfect by a long shot.
But I think we've made a goodamount of progress on that front
and that experience has beenvery important to that progress.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
It was also because we were looking up about the
pension, the funding thepensions, and I didn't really
understand what that meant.
And, jeanette, we were sort ofexplaining.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I was like I was so impressed with the pension part
of the budget and how you turnedthat around.
When you look at theaccomplishments that you have
had over the last seven yearsand a couple of change, I'm sure
that that is one of them.
But what are some of theaccomplishments that you really
look to?
That when you started and now,as you're leaving, that you
(11:00):
really are proud of?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, we've got about six or seven months to run and
we're going to sprint throughthe tape.
I'm not into the legacy thing,I'm not into patting myself on
the back, but I'll give you acouple of at a very high level,
a couple of things that I thinkare notable.
One is, as we speak, morepeople live in this state than
ever before.
More people are employed in thestate than ever before.
(11:23):
There are more businesses inoperation than ever before.
So one of our big focuses wason growing the economy.
We hadn't grown prior to ourtime here.
We were sort of sideways for along time, so I'm proud of that.
We've particularly emphasizedrecapturing our place in the
startup economy.
(11:43):
We used to be really good atbirthing companies.
That skill had migratedelsewhere, to California, new
York City, boston, et cetera,austin, texas.
We're now back in that lane ina big way In terms of venture
capital destination, as onemetric we're only now behind New
York and California, andthey're a lot bigger than we are
(12:04):
, so that's a good place.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
That's impressive.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Which is big.
Secondly, I would say, inequities, that we have shrunk
and we still have work to do oneverything, including this, but
we were horrifically inequitableas a state, particularly across
racial lines and secondarily,I'd say, across gender lines,
and we've closed a lot of thosegaps, whether it's wealth
disparity, our clemencyinitiatives, access to housing,
(12:31):
social determinants of healthparticularly my wife's lived in
the infant and maternal healthspace.
So the second bucket would bewe've shrunk a lot of inequities
.
Our work is far from done.
We still have a lot of progressyet to be made there.
And then the third one is whatyou all were alluding to being
fiscally responsible andreliable.
(12:52):
We're obligated to make ourpension payment.
We hadn't made it in 25 years.
This will be the fifth year ina row, with the budget I signed
later in June, that we will havemade it, by the way, $7.1
billion a year, which includesan enormous penalty for all
those years that we hadn't paidit.
Rating agencies that haveupgraded us, basically doing
(13:13):
business, if you will, in aresponsible, reliable way.
So those are the three bucketsthat we are obsessed with, that
we spend 99% of our time with,and I feel good about the
progress.
Again, we're not perfect, we'renot done yet, we probably won't
even be done when we're doneRight, but we've reset the state
across all three of those veryimportant buckets.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Right.
So the budget that you just putout recently, I believe it's 50
, I have it down $55 billion andI think that's the concern is
that can we maintain that highlevel because our taxes are so
high?
The basic thing is our propertytaxes are so high and the
budget's just ballooning.
How do you respond to such asimple question like that?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, so has the budget gone up since we've been
in office.
Absolutely Guess what thebudget goes up when you inherit
a state that didn't pay itsbills.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So the year before we got here the pension payment
maybe was a billion.
I forget what the number was.
We will have just printed.
Assuming the budget lands whereI think it'll land, we will
have put more money into thepension system than the prior
six governors combined.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right, whoa, they were not paying it.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
We never fully funded our school funding formula.
We have now funded it fully.
We're the only administrationin the history of the state.
So my point is has the budgetgone up?
Yeah, have we made investmentsthat we think are smart?
Yes, we've done that too, butthat's what happens when you
inherit a state that didn't payits bills, and shame on the
(14:53):
critics who don't have thecourage to point that out.
Secondly, can we continue toafford it?
Very good question.
That's why our emphasis hasbeen overwhelmingly on growing
the economy, and the answer isbased on where I sit now, not
just this budget, but, as I lookto the future, we absolutely
can afford it.
That doesn't mean we don't doeverything we can to make the
(15:16):
life of families in this statemore affordable.
We have record property taxrelief in this budget, all-time
highs.
We do everything we can to makethe state a good value for
money state.
We're never going to be thelow-cost state when you have the
number one public educationsystem in America, which we just
that mantle was reaffirmed byUS News and World Report last
(15:38):
month.
When you've got top fivehealthcare quality, when you've
got top quality of life.
More broadly, location second tonone, all the things that we
offer as a state that doesn'tcome cheap.
The point is Not to be thewould I love to be a low cost
guy on the planet, you betcha,but that's not who we are.
(15:59):
I want to make sure for youfolks like you and your families
living in Montclair to pick anexample that you have a good
value for money proposition.
This may not be cheap, but boydo I get a lot back for that.
That, to me, is New Jersey'srightful resting place, and I
think that's where we are andwe'll continue to do everything
we can to stay there.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And are you feeling, by attracting VCs and things
like that and companies likethat and Netflix which was that
wonderful we saw those photosand the film tax breaks you've
done a lot for the film industryto bring them back to New
Jersey and to shoot here and dotheir work here that that will
give us the funds that we'llneed.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So we're.
We used to be.
Yes the answer.
If this got cut off right now,the answer is emphatically yes.
New Jersey used to be what Iwould call a metal bender state.
We made cars, trucks, chemicalsfor some good reasons, some bad
reasons.
The fact of the matter isthat's not who we are anymore,
and it hasn't been for a while.
I think when you wake up in themorning, we, as the three of us
(17:04):
, as individuals, a company, afoundation, certainly a state
you have to look in the mirrorand be cold-blooded about who
you are, who you're not, whatyou can be, what you can't be
and then play the hand that youwere dealt and maximize that
hand.
And so when I look in the mirrorputting aside what I look like,
(17:26):
which please keep me in yourprayers when I see New Jersey, I
see an innovation economy.
I see pharmaceutical, bio, lifescience, tech, telecom,
increasingly generativeartificial intelligence, film,
television, digital, greeneconomy, fintech, financial
technology, fintech, sportsbetting not just the handle,
(17:49):
which we lead the nation andhave been for seven years, but I
mean the guts of the industry,the technology, the jobs.
That's who we are.
Let's own that space, let'sdominate in those industries and
in that space Photonics.
No other state in the nation is.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Can you explain what that is?
What is photonics?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
No, I can't explain.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
But what in the world ?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Like photons.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
We'll look it up and we'll put it on the screen.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
This is extreme value-added, highly engineered
industries, and photonics isamong them.
We've launched 10 strategicinnovation centers.
One of them is with PrincetonUniversity, the NJAI Hub with.
State of New Jersey, princetonMJ AI Hub with state of New
(18:38):
Jersey, princeton Microsoft Core, which is an emerging mega
player in AI.
I'll bet you we'll do one inphotonics or in that sort of
neighborhood before we're done.
But just think highly valueadded, highly technical, the
very high end of engineeringengineering.
I'll give you one data pointbefore I shut up.
(18:59):
Here is New Jersey is thehighest concentration of
scientists, engineers, researchprofessionals per square mile in
the world.
Really, that's amazing.
My point is be clear-eyed aboutwho you are and dominate where
you're good and just resist thetemptation to go a field into
areas where you're not and justresist the temptation to go up a
field into areas where you'renot going to be as competitive.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, that's good life advice also for all college
students graduating Look in themirror and see what you're also
what you're good at.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
You bet.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, I mean it definitely makes you very Jersey
proud hearing all that'shappening in New Jersey and also
you're you're known also forthe clean energy.
How are you feeling about thatsector and the work that you've
done in that area?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well with the Trump administration.
Not very good at the moment.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
They have really gummed up our offshore wind
program, which was the largestin the country.
I still hope we'll get thatback on its feet, but they have
been absolutely on the wrongside of history.
If you care about climatechange and the environment,
these guys I love to thinkotherwise and I desperately try
to find common ground with thepresident and his people, and
(20:10):
we're able to do that from timeto time, but this is not one of
those areas.
So I feel really good aboutwhat we've done inside.
I could say this about a lot ofthings right now I feel really
good about what we've doneinside.
I could say this about a lot ofthings right now I feel really
good about what we've doneinside the four walls of Jersey.
On climate, we've led thenation for the past seven and a
half years.
Thanks to my wife and a lot ofgreat legislators, we're the
only state in the nation thatteaches climate change in our.
(20:33):
K-12 curriculum.
Is that because we're woke orprogressive?
Yeah, I'm a proud progressive,but I'm also a cold-blooded
capitalist.
That's the real reason is sothat when those kids graduate,
that they know everything theyneed to know about that industry
and that they will succeed, getgreat paying jobs, have a real
multi-decade career in thatspace.
(20:54):
No other state does that, butI'm really down and depressed
about the national picture onthat front.
As much as good as I feel aboutwhat we've done, I feel really
negative about where it's headednationally.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, the fact that the governors really are the
first line of defense to protecttheir people in their state.
And then you have changing.
You've been through multipleadministrations that are, you
know, believe in what you'redoing and then don't believe in
what you're doing.
How much of a whiplash is thatfor you and how do you manage
(21:30):
that and manage to do you havelike a daily mantra or how do
you stay steady as the governorof this state?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
So this is a fact as opposed to something that I'm
promoting.
If you will, I'm the longestserving Democratic governor
alongside Donald Trump aspresident, and that included
three years in his first timethrough, and we largely
coexisted.
He was to his credit, and histeam early in the pandemic were
(21:58):
exceptionally important to us,saving lives.
And people hear that now andthey say what are you talking
about?
But in the first few months inearly in the spring and early
summer of 2020, we were talkingliterally almost every day and
he and his team his son-in-law,jared Kushner, in particular
were extremely important to oursaving lives.
(22:19):
Again, I know folks now hearthat and they say that's crazy,
but it's true.
I look back on the three yearsthat we overlapped on this first
time through almost you'regoing to laugh at this, almost
with a fondness.
You know we were able to findcommon ground on the one hand
and then fight like hell for thevalues and the communities that
(22:40):
were being impacted or attacked.
Then we had four years ofPresident Biden and largely not
entirely, but largelysympathetic agendas both in
Washington and here in NewJersey, and now this and this is
a completely different ballgame.
Okay, yeah, I don't know, thisis true, but I'll bet you they
(23:03):
didn't think they were going towin in 2016.
When they did win, they weren'treally sure-.
What to do with it what leversto pull and whatnot.
They surrounded themselves withat least some institutionalists
.
All of that's different.
They were supremely confident.
They know exactly what they'redoing.
There are no institutionalists,and this is really really hard
(23:25):
right now.
This is 24-7 hand-to-handcombat, still trying to find
common ground.
And we have.
But boy, there's a lot of stuffthat we're battling a lot of it
in court.
It's not easy right now.
Can you give us sympathy?
But it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
No, no, I mean, we're watching it, we're watching.
Can you tell us, like right now, when you wake up in the
morning, what are the issuesthat you are shifting to the
federal, as we're talking about,that are on your desk, that you
really are urgently trying todeal with?
I know that we have this big,beautiful bill that just passed.
(24:01):
It's about to go into theSenate, so I'm assuming that's
one of them, but what are thesethings that you're?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
looking at.
Yeah, that's the top of thelist and when this airs it'll be
interesting to see where theSenate has landed with the House
bill that got passed by onevote.
That's the 800-pound gorillaright now.
This is billions of dollars toNew Jersey that we are getting
now that we won't getOverwhelmingly Medicaid, snap or
(24:29):
food stamps, planned Parenthood, other things overwhelmingly
directed at the lower incomestrata of our residents.
Billions.
It also means, depending on theprogram, probably, I'll say
hundreds of thousands of folksthat will go without.
They'll be taken off the rolls,whatever the rolls might be,
(24:51):
due to work requirements inMedicaid or some other factor.
And the real tragedy.
So that's tragic period.
The further tragedy is no state, including New Jersey, has
remotely the kind of money lyingaround the pocket money if you
will to compensate for thosecuts.
So folks will go without.
Maybe on the margin we can trimsome of the pain and we will
(25:13):
continue to try to do that.
But this is awful, this is notAmerican, it's just awful, awful
, awful.
That's the big 800-poundgorilla.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
It is, do we?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
have immigration challenges, you betcha, but in
terms of the overwhelming sortof tidal wave impact, of the
biggest scale impact on NewJersey, it's this awful, big,
beautiful bill.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Well, it seems that it's framing it as an
immigration.
It's marketing it as animmigration solution, but it
really is not that.
That it doesn't seem to bereally what it is.
It's really just a gutting ofthe Medicaid system.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
They're hiding behind phrases which are Orwellian
like this is about waste, fraudand abuse.
Right, you know what?
If there's waste, fraud andabuse, sign me up.
I want to get rid of that too.
That's not what this is about.
We do roundtables with folkswho are impacted.
We did one in Westfield a fewweeks ago.
There was nobody at that tabletaking advantage of the system,
(26:14):
and, I might add, there wasnobody at that table.
These were six or sevenfamilies who have nowhere else
to turn if Medicaid is cut.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
That was very moving.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Nobody at that table could work if they wanted to.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So this work requirement stuff is complete BS
roundtable for Medicaid and itwas very moving.
And the thing that reallystruck me was where will people
go?
The institutions are removedfor people who need intense care
(26:47):
like this.
And then I thought it was veryinteresting because onto women's
reproductive rights and howmuch they care about you know
lives that it's just like aconflict of interest between the
Republicans saying they careabout people and babies and
everyone.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
They want you to have more babies.
They want to control women'sreproductive freedoms.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But not support them.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
They will literally kill people with this bill.
They will.
They will literally go withoutand die and the blood is on
their hands.
It's despicable.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Well, something that I'd like to point out about this
is the cascading effects.
Everyone thinks it's going toaffect someone that they might
not know.
They don't know it's peoplethey don't know.
But I've told Rachel thisseveral times is that I'm part.
This is a side thing that I do.
I work for.
A lot of projects that I workfor are international and I
(27:41):
build tech and web developmentfor USAID projects.
You would never think you wouldnever think that cutting that
would have so many cascadingeffects.
And I was even talking to myaccountant.
I was like you know, you'regoing to lose your job because
we don't have jobs anymore.
People are not considering whenthey just think I don't want
(28:03):
immigrants getting health care.
You know, it's just.
It's a little bit of a petpeeve of mine that I'm like you
don't look.
Look at the cascading effect.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Well, it's personal.
It's also personal I thinkwe're all sort of trying to
figure out.
You know, as you know, thatpeople are going to the polls to
vote on June 10th for, you know, the primaries for the
governorship, and people areworried about the Democrats
message and how we can hold itup against the Republican
(28:31):
message and what is themessaging?
And it's hard when you feelwell, when I feel that you know
certain facts don't matter.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Is there like a secret meeting of Democratic
leaders that they're like, OK,let's get on board.
What's our message?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, it's extremely frustrating.
Before I take a stab at that,just to give you one.
Back to Jeanette's commentabout the unintended
consequences and the cascading,I'll give you one that we get.
I mean the Trump stuff Nicksays big time.
About five or six years ago, Isigned a law that would give
folks access to a driver'slicense, regardless of their
(29:10):
immigration status.
So the folks on the other sidewoke, woke, woke, woke.
You know why we did it.
Here's why we did it Because weactually did our research and
the states with the safest roadsin America are those that allow
everybody to get access to adriver's license.
Meaning you have to go throughdriver's ed, you have to take a
(29:31):
test, you have to take a roadtest, you have to read an eye
test, you have to re-up overtime.
That's why we did it.
So there's this feeling like,well, it's for them.
Well, it is.
I guess, if you're trying toget to work and we heard some
incredible stories about, youknow, buses and trains and
walking, yes, it is quoteunquote about them.
(29:52):
It's for all of us, it's tomake our roads safer for all of
us, for everyone.
Yeah, terms of coherence, we'restarting to get our mojo back,
I think, kind of for all thewrong reasons, I would argue,
because everybody's now startingto wake up and realizing that
(30:13):
some of this stuff is crazy.
Trump's poll numbers arestarting to go down, the stock
market is wobbly, the bondmarket is wobbly.
Our allies are questioningwhether or not we're a reliable
partner anymore.
The first move on thechessboard to end the war in
Ukraine is to side with theRussians.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Hello.
So that's starting to impactpeople deeply.
I think for the first fewmonths post-election, we were
all deer in the headlight.
Now it's beginning to bite andI think that's politically for
all the wrong reasons a goodthing.
As you rightfully point out, wehave, I think about a week
after this podcast goes up, wehave the primary for governor.
(30:55):
You've got six Democrats thathave a legitimate shot.
You've got three or fourRepublicans with a legitimate
shot, although they feel likethey're much more baked than we
are, and we'll see.
I think this is going to be avery close, tough general
election.
President Trump did a lot betterlast year than he did in 2016
(31:15):
or in 2020 in New Jersey.
I know he personally feels asthough Jersey's winnable.
Typically, the textbook wouldsay the Democrat would be
favored because you're runningagainst.
Really what?
Just the election in Washingtonand what's happening?
But on the other side of it,putting aside his better
performance last year, it's hardto staple three terms together
(31:36):
of the same party.
Historically, that would beunusual.
I've had two.
I was the first Democrat to getreelected in 44 years.
Can we find the magic again andget a third Democratic term,
albeit with a different governor?
I'm obviously I'm not takingsides in the primary but in the
general.
I will be all in to see thathappen, but I think it'll be
(31:57):
very, very close.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well, I was to Rachel's point about the
messaging for the DemocraticParty and the way that the
landscape has changed so much.
You said it's hand-to-handcombat every day.
From the time that you we werekind of laughing that you had
worked for Howard Dean and thathe showed a little bit of anger
and his campaign was over right,and today what he did was just
(32:22):
so minor, so incredibly minor,and so the landscape has changed
so much and it really does seemto be more about emotions and
not about facts.
It seems to be getting toculture and thoughts and
feelings and the DemocraticParty seems to lead with the
facts you know, and discredit tosome extent the culture,
(32:46):
heritage and values of theRepublican Party, which causes
this backlash.
So I'm wondering is there kindof a pivot to maybe being a more
less throwing out facts andrules?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
and you know, bring back the Howard Dean screen
bring back the Howard Dean.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
like you know, I'm mad.
Like we are doing a good job,like do you not realize the
cascading effects of this thing?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Listen.
They're probably, I think,showing our raw side.
Assuming it's real and it's notfabricated is always not always
it didn't work for Howard, butI think sort of showing our
anger is not a bad thing.
Bernie and AOC have been doingthat successfully and this is,
you know, to their credit period.
The history would suggest wehave to attract a chunk of
(33:34):
people in the middle.
Trump, go figure, was able todo that.
We have to be able to do that.
I would, if you look beyond thisyear, there are only two
statewide races, by the way dothat.
If you look beyond this year,there are only two statewide
races, by the way, in America inthe year after a presidential
New Jersey and Virginiagovernor's races.
Virginia feels like it's comingour way.
You never put anything in thebank at this time of the year.
(33:58):
And then New Jersey, I think,will be really nip and tuck.
If you look at next year midtermelections, you have 36
governor's races next year withonly two this year.
But you've got all of the House, a third of the Senate.
I would be optimistic on theHouse.
I'd be pretty shocked if wedidn't win the House back.
(34:19):
I'd be pretty surprised notshocked if we win the Senate
back, not because of lack ofemotion, but the map, you all
know this.
But when you have only a thirdof the Senate back, not because
of lack of emotion, but the map,you all know this.
But when you have only a thirdof the chamber up, it matters
what third that is and whereyou're defending and where
they're defending and whatnot.
So we'll see.
But I think the short answer isshowing our emotion right now
(34:41):
has to be a good thing.
It has to be Without abandoningthe basic facts and principles
to prove our case.
I think there's no reason whyboth of those can't exist.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Well, moving on, we do want to know a little bit
about your relationship.
You said that you do cometogether a little bit with
Donald Trump on a couple ofissues.
Is there something about DonaldTrump and his governing style
or some of the policies he's putforward that you agree with?
Speaker 3 (35:11):
that you connect with him on so we have a
relationship and there aren'tmany Democrats who do In part.
By the way, I'm the governor ofNew Jersey and he's going to be
as we're taping this.
He's flying in this afternoon.
This is, I'd say, of his twostates of interest right now,
this is second behind Floridaand we've found common ground
over the years.
In his first term it wasinfrastructure and I mentioned
(35:34):
secondly, and as a life anddeath matter, the early days of
COVID.
Some of his principles I have noquibble with.
He wants to manufacture morestuff in America, so do I.
He wants a more efficientgovernment.
Sign me up.
He wants to manufacture morestuff in America, so do I.
He wants a more efficientgovernment Sign me up.
He wants wars to end and peaceto break out.
Who doesn't?
It is less in those areas.
(35:56):
Other principles I'm not goingto agree with.
It's not the principle, it'sthe execution around those three
things.
That is, I'd say, disastrous.
Tariffs are not the way to makemore stuff in America.
In New Jersey right now I'mworking with the legislature on
a big $500 million manufacturingincentive for multinationals
(36:19):
who are worried about tariffs tosay come on into New Jersey,
make your stuff here and we'llhelp make the finances work for
you.
On government efficiency, Ithought with Elon Musk, who's a
tech genius and pretty much nota genius away from anything
related to technology, that'sfor sure you would think back in
November I was hoping you knowwhat we're going to see stuff in
(36:42):
his efficiency endeavors thatwe're going to be able to learn
from.
I mentioned we're gettingreally big into generative
artificial intelligence.
We're training all 61,000 folkswho work in state government on
AI and how to upskill theirjobs.
There's been none of that.
It's complete.
The Marx brothers are in chargeof that department.
(37:04):
And then I mentioned a fewminutes ago peace over war.
Yes, absolutely, but thatdoesn't mean getting in bed with
the Russians who started thewar, right, so it's just, it's
less.
So.
Those principles I share, butthe execution is God awful.
There's no strategic overlay.
There's no hey, wait a minute,let's be really clever about
(37:24):
this.
And that's where I think thisis falling down right now.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
On that.
Are you looking forward totaking a break from politics?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I haven't really thought about it.
I know our time is ticking here.
So I should at least say thatwe're running through the tape,
and if we weren't alreadyrunning through the tape thanks
to the stuff that's coming at usout of Washington, weren't
already running through the tapethanks to the stuff that's
coming at us out of Washington,any amount of time that I could
have otherwise devoted tothinking about what's next you
(37:54):
don't have time yet.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I get it.
Well, that makes sense.
I've never been busier than Iam right now.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, I see that I see that we can wrap this up,
because we know you're busy, butwe'd like to end our
conversations with a couple offun things about Jersey.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
We want to know first off the mountains or the shore
of New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I love them both, but I lean shore.
Okay, and it's funny Our lakesget undersold.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
The lakes are amazing .
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Part of the beauty of our state and I tell you, every
summer I go up and have lunchon Lake Hopatcong with the four
or five mares that havecommunities that abut the lake.
But I'm a shore guy.
We spend as many weekends as wecan on the shore.
We live literally as we speak.
I'm three and a half miles fromthe ocean.
The Jersey Shore is anincredible asset for New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Okay, and the next one.
This one is Rachel's, which Ilove that she said and I feel
like you've already done this alittle bit, but what is your
elevator pitch for New?
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Jersey.
I'll tell you what I think.
Every state has a bumpersticker and ours is the number
one state in America to raise afamily.
I love that and that to meembodies a whole lot of other
stuff that I could.
If the elevator were going tothe, my wife and I did her at an
event last week on thehundredth floor in New York city
.
That elevator I could give youa lot more details on, but if
(39:16):
it's just going from the groundfloor to the third floor, you
just got it.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Well, that's why Jeanette and I both moved here.
It was to raise our families.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, I mean we bought our house.
I'm not from here, my wife'snot from here.
We bought our house explicitlyto raise our kids here.
It was the best move we evermade.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Exactly, we are not from here either, and that's why
we were lost in Jersey, but welove it.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I have a question.
I know totally lost in Jersey,so I have a question about that.
So when you first decided, howdid you decide to move to New
Jersey, like what?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
was the impetus.
It didn't pick Long Island,where I grew up or you know
Westchester.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I'll tell you what the story was.
We were working for GoldmanSachs, by the way, for a
separate podcast.
We got engaged 18 days afterour first date, so we can talk
about that.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I don't know if that's separate Cause.
That is kind of amazing and Idon't understand how that
happened.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
It's true.
Don't try that at home, by theway.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Do you tell your kids to do that or no?
Speaker 3 (40:14):
No, we tell them not to do what we did.
Jesus.
Please don't do that.
But we've been married for 31years this summer, so it worked
years this summer it worked out.
It worked out okay, best thingthat ever happened to me.
So we were working for Goldmanoverseas.
We got married early in ourtime in Germany.
We then moved to Asia, gotpregnant in the process with our
(40:35):
first child, and so one of thethings we noticed is that most
of the folks that Goldman hadasked to go overseas did not end
up spending the amount of timethat they thought they were
going to spend overseas.
They either got the tour, gotcut early or it stayed late.
So when we got pregnant withour oldest, we said you know
(40:56):
what that could happen to us?
The chances were overwhelminglylikely that we would.
If we were cut short, it wouldbe to go back to headquarters in
New York.
We should really start lookingat Metro New York and have a
place, not just a home, but alsopick out a school.
So we looked all over.
We looked in New York City, welooked in Westchester.
(41:17):
We didn't do a whole lot inLong Island.
We looked in Jersey, but atfirst we didn't look on the
shore.
And then a friend of ours wholived at the time in Colts Neck,
which is not too far from wherewe live today, said you got to
check out the Two Rivers areaand we live in what is called
the Two Rivers area in MonmouthCounty and we, as they said,
(41:38):
jerry Maguire, they had us athello.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, you were like this is it?
This is it.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
It was just a matter of then finding the house, and
we ultimately got lucky andfound our home.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
And you just moved in and decided to become the
governor.
You're like you know what.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
It was a little bit more complicated than that.
Yeah, what the heck.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Okay, so here's another question Is there your
go-to New Jersey sightseeingspot for somebody that is
visiting you?
Where do you take them?
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Island Beach State Park.
In fact, we have a dear friendwho is going to have dinner with
us down there tonight and spendthe night with us.
One of the very few perks onthe list of being governor is
that there is a wonderful homeon Island Beach State Park.
This is the infamous photo ofChris Christie on the beach.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Really.
So you take him there, is therelike a little?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
shrine for him there, like a little post, like a
beach chair and a beer.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
The beach chair is still there, but there's no
shrine.
But the shore, and Island Beachin particular is an incredible
gem.
It's a 10 mile long barrierisland, unspoiled.
It was named, I think two tothree years ago, as the number
one state park in America.
Clearly, if it's January, I'mprobably not going there.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
But if it's Memorial Day to Labor Day, or even the
shoulder months, that's whereI'm taking somebody.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Awesome.
And then what do you put onyour pizza?
What toppings?
Speaker 3 (42:59):
I'm simple Plain, plain Tomato and cheese.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
All right.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Don't eat it with a knife and fork, in case you're
wondering.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I wasn't going to even ask that.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Darn hands.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, Good good.
I can't imagine that wenormally close out our
interviews with the question ofwhat do you love about New
Jersey?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
I think it's our character, our grit, our
attitude.
We're from Jersey, baby.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
That's what I love about New Jersey too, no other
state in America could say thatwith the same amount of you
talking to me.
You know one of my great linesthat Brendan Byrne, one of my
predecessors, had, which saysall you need to say about Jersey
.
This is to Governor Byrne howdid you know that you were no
longer governor?
And his answer was becauseeverybody started waving at me
(43:46):
with all five fingers.
That's Jersey.
So it's our attitude character.
There's also a big amount oftolerance in there.
We're the most diverse state inAmerica.
We're the most denselypopulated state in America.
We live on top of each other.
You can't help but walk in theother guy's shoes.
I just think we are a veryspecial, very unique state.
(44:11):
I've been chair of the NationalGovernors Association.
I was twice chair of theDemocratic Governors Association
.
I say that seven and a halfyears in.
I know enough to be dangerous.
There's no other state like us.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
That's the best.
Thank you so much, GovernorMurphy.
This was a blast.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
We loved it.
It was so nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Look forward to giving you each a high five in
person, I hope soon in the later.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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