June 10, 2025 • 45 mins
Our guest today takes us from Iran to innovation. Dr. Ali Houshmand’s journey to the top of Rowan University is anything but typical. Hear how he’s reinventing college with bold ideas, groundbreaking programs, and a hot sauce that funds scholarships.
🌍 From Tehran to Transformation: Born to illiterate parents in Iran, Dr. Houshmand worked his way through college in London, driven by grit and vision.
🏥 Revolutionizing Rowan: He turned Rowan into one of only two U.S. universities with allopathic and osteopathic medical degree programs.
🛠️ Engineering Success: His hands-on education model produces job-ready grads—Lockheed Martin and other giants actively recruit them.
🌶️ Hot Sauce for Scholarships: Raised nearly $3M for student aid by creating and selling hot sauce made from peppers grown on campus.
🧠 Rethinking Education: Believes college should teach students how to apply knowledge wisely, not just memorize facts.
🤝 Leadership with Heart: Leads with transparency, honesty, and dignity—values he believes are essential for real leadership.
🌾 Feeding Minds & Communities: Oversees the growth of thousands of pounds of produce annually to fight food insecurity and teach farming skills.
💡 Silicon Valley of the East? Sees South Jersey’s potential to become a thriving innovation hub thanks to its location and affordability.
Listen to be inspired by transformational leader Dr. Ali Houshmand.
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Rowan University
Dr. Ali Houshmand
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, rachel, hey, Jeanette, we just had a great
interview with Dr Huchman, thepresident of Rowan University,
which is a university.
That is, what is it?
33 miles from Philadelphia?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yes, I did look that up and it was 33 miles.
I actually mapped it to SouthStreet.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So it's really.
I looked at the map too.
It's right between Philadelphiaand Atlantic.
City, so it's like, right downthere, it's a Southern part of
New Jersey and a lot of peopledon't know about it in Northern
New Jersey and we're like, well,you need to.
Yes absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Why do you say that, Rachel?
Well, he's so dynamic.
This was such a fun interviewand I just loved hearing how, as
a university president, he'sbeen president of Rowan for it's
like 11 years.
10, 11 years now, Right, yeah,something like that.
And he's the epitome of atransformational leader that's
how I look at him and that he isre-envisioning constantly what
(01:00):
higher education should looklike and enabling the staff and
the students at Rowan to benefitfrom that.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, he came from Iran and he came from a humble
beginnings and he tells us alittle bit about this and his
journey here, and then we go onto talk about the university
itself and he is very much, asyou mentioned in the interview,
into experiential education,where people are getting their
degree in combination withlearning how to actually go and
(01:29):
get the job, you know, trainingthem for that specific job.
And he goes on to tell us alittle bit about his hot sauce
that he makes.
He gives us the background onthe whole operation, which is
quite big and fascinating and, Iwould say, the pepper on top of
the interview.
I love that Of this reallywonderful university, a very, as
(01:52):
you said, formative presidentof a university who seems to
hold all of the traits that onewould want in a president of a
university.
Enjoy this interview.
Welcome to Lost in Jersey, DrHoushman.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Thank you.
Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I reached out to you because you are the president of
Rowan University and theuniversity came onto our radar
because both of us have kidsthat have been heading off to
college.
I have a son right now that'sheading off to college, and I
have a son right now that'sheading off to college, and my
husband toured many of the NewJersey universities and he went
to your university and he wouldnot stop raving about Rowan.
I think everybody in our circleof friends were like well, where
(02:41):
is Rowan?
And that was surprising to us.
So we wanted to bring you on tolet people know more about it.
And Rachel also, how did Rowancome on your radar?
I?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
remember hearing about it through the Malcolm
Gladwell podcast the revisionisthistory.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yes, yeah, I had two interviews with Malcolm.
There was one of them about.
The title was my Little $100Million Gift.
Yes, talked about Henry Rowan'smoney and the other one about
the whole issue of how you rankinstitutions based on US News
and World Report.
Basically, every president getsthis survey of 4,000 or so
universities and you want toscale, rank them by scale of one
(03:21):
to five.
I said how the hell do I knowthat?
The only way that I do it Isend every president a bottle of
my hot sauce.
Hopefully they will remember meand give me a better ranking.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I love that, I love that story and we are so glad
that you brought it up becausewe definitely want to talk to
you about that.
(03:50):
But before we get to the hotsauce and how Rowan found itself
on Malcolm Gladwell about the$100 million we'd like to get,
it's a very profound story.
Tell us a little bit about yourbackground.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
My background is I was born in the rough part of
Tehran, in the rough part.
Let's just leave it at that,okay.
Yeah, my mom and dad wereilliterate and my father came
from the eastern part of Mashhad, my mom from another eastern
town, damqan, and they had manychildren.
They were hardworking people,especially my dad, and they had
(04:23):
12 children.
I believe two of them passedand then the 10.
And I'm the fifth one.
Wow In the middle, yes, and 1975, I finished my high school and
I entered the entrance exam forthe universities.
The first time I didn't pass.
And then I had the choice ofeither going to the military to
do my two years of militaryservice or find an alternative
(04:44):
of going abroad.
And I had taken a test inEnglish.
I barely passed it by 51%, Iremember, and passing it was 50.
Now the question was could Iafford to go in there?
And my older brother, who hadjust got a job at Internal
Revenue Service in Iran, hebasically bought me a one-way
ticket to London and it's $70.
(05:06):
And that was my trip to theWest.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So you arrived in London with $70.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And you were going to go to school there.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yes.
So I went there and after oneweek I was frying Kentucky Fried
Chicken for 50 pence an hourand basically I went through
school paying for myself,working various jobs cleaning
the bars.
You know, in England whenpeople go drink they kind of
drink a lot and they make a lotof mess, including throwing up
and everything.
So my job was this was auniversity bar I wake up on
(05:41):
Friday, saturdays and Sundaymorning at 6 am and go and clean
up the place.
Wow, so that was the job I waspaying.
I was being paid, I think, 50pence an hour, about half a
British pound, and that wasenough.
Because I was then living witha family, the Gilchrist family,
who I was paying pounds a weekfor a room, breakfast and dinner
, and the breakfast consisted ofcereal, milk and one boiled egg
(06:04):
and a piece of toast.
So I will hide the piece oftoast and a boiled egg and run
from a school lunchtime and eatthat for lunch, and that's how I
basically, you know it was avery struggling time, so you had
a host family.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Is that what that?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
was?
Was it a host family?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
family and then you stayed with them and you just
scraped by as you went tocollege, but it seems that you
had a real acumen formathematics.
Is that?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
math background and actually when I did go to
England I ended up doing abachelor's and master's in
mathematics and it was reallythe greatest thing that I did,
because actually when mydaughter was a teenager, I gave
(06:53):
her advice and I said I'll giveyou three advice.
I said number one learnmathematics because it teaches
you logic and logical thinkingis really the best way.
Number two become a runner,because it makes you humble and
it hurts.
And number three never let aman pay for you.
Learn to learn your own livingand your own job so that you
(07:13):
don't depend on others.
And she did all three of them.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
That's great life advice.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, she ended up with a PhD in biomedical
engineering.
She worked for McKinsey andthen now works for Boston
Scientific.
She's a leading authority indeep brain stimulation.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Wow, that's impressive.
So does she live in New Jerseytoo?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
No, she lives in Maryland.
She lives in Maryland, yes.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I see so well, how did you I mean while you're
going to school how did you endup coming to the United States?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I finished my master's degree at the
University of Essex they didn'thave a doctoral program at that
time and then I went to myadvisor, professor Winston, and
asked Professor Winston, Iwanted to study sampling theory,
which people use in polling andother stuff for elections.
And where do you think I shouldgo?
And he said you should go toIndia.
India is very good.
(08:03):
And I said I don't want to goto India, I want to go to West.
What about America?
And he said well, there is thisuniversity near Detroit.
Everybody has gone, they shooteach other, but the university
is not bad.
Honestly, he literally saidthat he meant University of
Michigan.
So I went to the library, I gotthis stuff and I got
applications, sent it them.
A week later they accepted meand that's how I ended up at the
University of Michigan doing aPhD in statistics.
(08:25):
And after one year I switchedbecause it was so boring and so
theoretical.
I switched to industrial andoperations engineering and I got
another master's and adoctorate there and did you find
Detroit?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
that was an accurate description or no?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I consider Ann Arbor the greatest place on the face
of the earth.
It's my love city.
It's a place that my kids wereborn.
I absolutely adore that place.
I would give my left hand tolive in Ann Arbor.
Oh, that's so nice yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That's a really common thing.
I think that overseas, inEurope and other places, when
people look at the United States, they really, you know, they
get fed the big stories, the bigthings that hit the news and it
kind of frames a picture ofthis place.
So I think that that's a commonthing.
That's true.
What they're hearing is notaccurate, so that's nice to hear
that it was also that case here.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So after you were there, how did you end up at
Rowan?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Okay, Once I finished my PhD I got hired at United
Airlines.
My PhD I got hired at UnitedAirlines and my job was to
basically, with a team of otherPhDs, we would schedule 2,100
flights a day, 310 days inadvance.
It was an optimization model toincrease the revenue for the
airlines and it was kind of easyand boring.
(09:38):
So after six-month activity,somebody from University of
Cincinnati called me and saidwould you like to be a faculty?
I said sure.
The next day I flew over thereIn the afternoon, they gave me a
job and that's how I moved toCincinnati as a professor.
I was there for 10 years.
Then, in near 2000, I moved toDrexel University in the
(09:58):
administration position, Wasthere for six years, Was there
for six years and then in 2006,I came here after I saw an ad
and I applied and I wasinterviewed for three days and
they were crazy enough to giveme a job.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I didn't really know where exactly Rowan was located,
and I see that you're veryclose to Drexel.
It's like 30 minutes to Philly,it's such a great location.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Actually, our location, in my opinion, is very
, very strategic because thesouthern New Jersey eight
counties, about 4,600 squaremiles, and there are a lot of
land available and the price ofhouses are ridiculously low.
You can basically buy a housein a custom build with 10 acres
of land under a million dollars.
You would never find anythinglike that in North Jersey.
(10:44):
So what we are doing, what I amdoing right now, given that our
location we did 25 miles radiusthere are nine medical schools
in this region.
Number one eye hospital in theworld is in Philadelphia.
Number one children's hospitalin the world is in Philadelphia.
Number one cancer world canceris in Camden, philadelphia.
So what I'm trying to do is I'mtrying to really focus on the
(11:07):
Southern New Jersey and sellthis thing as a new Silicon
Valley, because the SiliconValley of California has been
exhausted.
The property values are out ofreach for many people.
Even home insurance is out ofreach for many people and they
have really exhausted themselves.
And where we are, within150-mile radius of our campus,
there are 45 million Americanslive here, whereas within
(11:30):
150-mile radius in SiliconValley there are only 15 million
people.
Another thing within 150-mileradius in Silicon Valley there
are only 11 top researchuniversities, whereas within
150-mile radius there are 36 topresearch universities in our
region.
Yes, so access to airport,seaport, highways of all sorts,
(11:52):
population and sandwich betweenthe political world center of
the world, washington DC, andfinancial center of the world,
new York, and cultural worldPhiladelphia, atlantic City
there is not a place on the faceof America that is as strategic
, in my opinion, for thatproject.
So that's what I'm promotingright now aggressively.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, I love that.
We actually just interviewedGovernor Murphy and he was
saying how New Jersey is thestate that has the largest
amount of scientists of anystate in the country, and he was
also talking about being thenew Silicon Valley and getting
much more VC investment inengineering AI, photonics, which
(12:37):
he introduced a new science tous, and all the medical research
, like you were saying, and youhave two medical schools,
correct?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We have three really.
If you look at the veterinaryschool, that's the third medical
school, the vet right.
Yes, we are only one of twouniversities in the nation that
have allopathic, osteopathic andveterinary school.
The other one is Michigan State.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
To that point, what are the key points that you like
to highlight about RowanUniversity?
I know that it has been growingand the research institution
has been growing and the medicaldepartments are growing.
What's your elevator pitch topeople about Rowan?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Your child is safe.
Your child will not be burdenedwith massive amount of debt.
Your child will have a greatcultural experience in here and
after four or five years yourchild is a successful citizen.
Taxpayer, that's what I want.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
What more could you want?
That's what we want.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
That's what everybody wants.
That's what every parent doeswant.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
A decent education, not be burdened.
We'll go and get a decent joband leave us alone.
Right yeah, that's what hewants.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, not leave us alone too much.
Come visit, keep your distance,don't give us no more problems.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
You don't need money.
If you need money, don't comesee me again.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's right.
That's perfectly well said,well said.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
First of all, rowan University.
Right now, I can tell youconfidently as an engineer,
rowan Engineering is only nextto UPenn Engineering in terms of
quality.
The quality of the studentsthat come to Rowan Engineering
are out of charge.
Overwhelming majority of themgraduate in four years and more
than 100 of them every year arehired by Lockheed Martin and the
(14:15):
average salary is $90,000.
That's our quality.
I mean people need toinvestigate the quality of
engineering.
I would send my kids to here.
In fact, my son went to hereand I would send them any day,
because this is a top-notchengineering program.
It really is, and every singleone of those kids get a decent
job and they're a productivecitizen and that's what we offer
(14:37):
in here and the campus theother one is absolutely gorgeous
.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It is.
It's gorgeous Within thedepartments.
What have you seen?
Now, one of the things that wealluded to earlier is about the
Malcolm Gladwell interviews thatyou did.
Now.
Rowan University is about 100years old now I think you just
celebrated the anniversary andthat Hank Rowan donated $100
million to the university.
Back in what was it?
1992?
(15:01):
1992.
And since then that money hashelped expand the university.
You know, back then, $100million, you know, shook the
world.
That was a large amount ofmoney, huge, and he went to MIT
but he didn't give it to themBecause, not that he didn't
appreciate it, he just felt likeit won't make that big of a
difference to that university asit would to Rowan.
(15:21):
How has that affected Rowan?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Well in a monumental way.
Honestly, before that, when thegift was given, before that,
rowan really was an unknownplace, highly localized and
regional university around here.
Kids from the counties aroundhere would come in here and it
was, to a great extent, an openaccess university.
It really wasn't anything thatwas impressive.
That's why a lot of people inNorth Jersey didn't know about
(15:44):
it Increasingly more do, becauseright now most of our
applicants are actually fromNorth Jersey.
So up until then they reallywere not anything, until Henry
Rowan came in and he said, inorder for him to have the
maximum impact of his gift, hewanted to create a college of
engineering.
That is the best, that isunique, that every engineer will
become a useful, productivecitizen.
(16:05):
That was his demand.
And then what they did?
They did a brilliant job ofgoing and recruiting the top
deans from MIT and otherengineering to come in here and
give them advice how do we buildthe most amazing engineering
college?
And based on their advice, theyhave built something that is
very, very unique.
It's a clinic base in thatstudents come in from year one.
They work on an industrialproject all four years.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
See, that's what I would have liked.
I studied engineering actuallyat UPenn.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
It was a long time ago, but I would say, you know
they've done a lot ofimprovements and I don't want to
speak badly of my time there.
I mean, I learned a lot there,but I did not love the
engineering program.
I did not feel it was veryhands-on, considering all that?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yes, I know.
Yes, Because they prepare youfor a PhD.
That's what they do.
Big universities like that.
They really want to give youthe kind of education that you
can go to graduate school.
But for us, we want to get aperson who can finish and go on
board for Lockheed Martin.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I love that.
To make it an experiential,you're in the labs, you're
actually working and seeing howthings work.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And that's why, as I said, the largest employer of
our students right now is thismajor company, global company,
and they're very proud.
They don't hire from otheruniversities around here.
They get all of their engineersfrom us.
That's fantastic.
A hundred per year, that'samazing, that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Because you're also knowing that the people are
graduating from that kind of anexperience really enjoy what
they're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
And actually, like in Martin, what they do.
They also have a combat systemsengineering certificate that
they teach every one of thosekids who they want to hire.
So their staff teach them andget them an additional
certificate above and beyond anengineering degree.
Amazing, Preparing them to workfor above and beyond an
engineering degree.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Amazing Preparing them to work for them.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
That's exactly it.
Yes, and that, to me, is thefuture of higher education in
this country.
We need to do education basedon make to order.
If you are a company and youare in need of certain talent,
we should be responsible toprovide that to you, rather than
the way that it is today.
We just educate people withoutany connection with the real
world of what is the need, andwe do disproportionate graduates
(18:08):
from different fields based onthe need.
Think about, for example, justan example psychology versus
mechanical engineering.
The state needs a thousandengineers mechanical engineers
and we'll be producing 500.
Then we are not doing a serviceto the state.
If the state needs 100psychologists and we are
producing a thousand, we are notdoing a service to the state.
If the state needs 100psychologists and we are
producing 1,000, we are notdoing any service to those 900
other people.
And we need to make sure thatwe produce what the country and
(18:31):
what the economy needs.
And that, to me, requires a farcloser collaboration with
industries.
They need to come in, even atthe curricular level, to work
with us to see exactly how do weneed to train these future
generations, because this is ahighly knowledge economy and you
want to make sure that everysingle one of your kids are
educated in the right way sothat they can be a successful
citizen, because this is a veryaggressive world.
(18:53):
This is not a thing that peoplecan kind of step back and wait
for.
The opportunity Opportunitiescome and go like this, and you
need to create educatedworkforce, and especially today.
Come and go like this, and weneed to create educated
workforce, and especially today.
Because if you look at oursituation right now, everybody
the country is very much againstillegal immigrants, so we don't
want immigrants.
I mean, even thisadministration doesn't even want
legal immigrants from some partof the world.
(19:14):
So that's one thing.
The other thing is that,unfortunately, people these days
are getting married much laterand chances are they will have
either one or no child.
And two of them are my kids, 36and 38, both married, no kids.
So that's the second thing.
And the third thing is that weare attacking DER in a very,
very aggressive way.
What we are doing, we arebasically aging the country and
(19:35):
not producing enough youngpeople to run this massive
knowledge economy and, as aresult, countries like China and
India will get ahead of us, andthat's the danger right now, in
my opinion.
If you don't want an immigrant,fine, great, I'm fine with that.
If people don't want to havechildren, that's their business,
that's their right.
But why don't we go and look atevery single one of our own
citizens and turn them intoproductive ones?
(19:57):
Think about a kid who liveswith their single mother in
Canada, and that kid could goone direction or the other,
could end up in the wrongdirection, end up in prison,
where you and I and everybodyelse pays to incarcerate them,
or turn them into productivecitizens where that person pays
taxes for the benefit of all ofus.
That's the choice that we haveand we are killing it.
My argument about DEI is notentitlement.
It's really looking forexcellence for the good of the
(20:18):
country.
It's not entitlement.
It's really looking forexcellence for the good of the
country.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
It's a really fascinating thing to hear your
philosophy like this as thepresident of a university.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's the truth, because, you know, I do not
really believe in giving peoplehandouts.
I believe everybody should havea skin in the game, but it's
crazy of us when there arebrilliant kids around here,
different from differentbackgrounds, different color and
everything.
They are the assets of thiscountry.
If you let them fade, they'llbecome a burden to this country,
(20:49):
and we can't afford it because,as I said, we are competing
with countries that are very,very aggressive.
India and China together have 3billion people that's nine
times the population of theUnited States and they can
afford to have tons of engineersand scientists and run the
global economy.
And the day that one countrygets the perfect AI, that's when
(21:09):
they rule the world, and webetter be prepared for that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
How are that is?
You brought up a couple ofpoints that I think that we
wanted to discuss with you.
With regards to that is theaging population and enrollment
dropping, and I believe it wassomething.
There's a cliff that's supposedto happen, that there's not
going to be as many people goingto college, and there's also a
(21:34):
lot of people, because of theextreme amount of knowledge
available online now, arechoosing to learn their skills.
And I'll use my own family asan example.
My oldest son goes to Baruch.
He commutes into the city fromMontclair to New York City and
he is taking computer sciencethere, but he feels he knows
(21:56):
more than the professors do.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
He's absolutely right .
Speaker 1 (21:59):
He's basically building a career on his own at
night through all thistechnology that he's doing and
he just feels like he's going tocollege just because he's SAS.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Just wants to get the credential, but that's the
challenge that we are facing.
That's the biggest challengethat the United States face in
higher education is this how dowe transition the faculty
members and professors from sageon the stage into a guide on
the side, because they're nolonger sages?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Sage on the stage to a guide on the side.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Probably I've got far more knowledge than many of
those professors, becausethey're better with this than
they are.
We are slower.
So, as a result, the questionis, what is going to happen to,
let's say, your grandchild 17years from now to go to college?
How is that college going tolook like?
Is it going to be still aclassroom with 30 people where
professor comes and writes onthe board and everybody copies
(22:51):
and takes the exam and get adegree?
That's not going to happen.
You're not going to do that.
We are in the age of AI, we arein the age of fast-moving
knowledge and, as a result, weneed to restructure and redefine
the whole notion of auniversity, not only the role of
the faculty, role of credential, role of pricing and the way
that we educate people.
And, on top of thatinfrastructure, the buildings
(23:14):
that we want to build today isgoing to last 50, 60 years from
now.
You're going to invest $100million to build a building.
It better be functional 50years from now.
The way that the knowledgeinvest $100 million to build a
building it better be functional50 years from now.
The knowledge is going rightnow Today's building you build
the technology first and thenput the brick and mortar around
it to support it.
Up until now it was brick andmortar first and a punch of hole
in the buildings to get wiresthrough there.
(23:35):
We need to transition all ofthis.
Everything is going upside downas a result of knowledge.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Well, what do you think then about the professors
that have been teaching acertain way for so long?
How to retrain them?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We are giving them a lot of, but there are a number
of ways.
To begin with, you know, thewhole issue of promotion and
tenure is going to become muchmore related to you know how
they perform.
But, more importantly, we aregiving them the tools, the
ability to go and learn new wayof delivering knowledge.
Imagine that you know you cango in there and get a YouTube or
TED talk and a five-minute talkto give it to the students.
(24:08):
Go and listen to this thing andcome back and let's discuss it.
What I think the education ofthe future is going to be versus
the education of today.
The education of today is thatknowledge transformation.
Right?
That means I have the knowledgeyou don't have it.
I give it to you.
Right?
That means I have the knowledgeyou don't have it, I give it to
you.
You got to use it to betteryour life.
This is no longer the case.
The future education is goingto be I know how to use this
(24:30):
knowledge to make good decisions.
I'm going to teach you how touse this knowledge to make good
decisions rather than how tomemorize that knowledge.
Right?
So both of us have the sameknowledge, except that I know
how to package it to make a gooddecision in life, and I need to
teach you that that's going tobe the new education.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
And do you feel that that can apply also to the
liberal arts classes?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
This is critical, absolutely critical, for this
country and universities not todamage or undermine humanities
and social sciences.
And the reason for that is thisbecause if we do, we're going
to have a lot of robots.
All kids are going to becomerobots.
We need to have a whole person,because in today's knowledge,
the notion of you going tocollege and get a degree and
(25:12):
then work with your degree forthe rest of your career, that's
done, it's not going to happen.
Chances are you're going tohave 10 different jobs, multiple
careers, multiple jobs and someof the jobs that the industries
have not yet been created, ofcourse.
Imagine I'm preparing these kidsfor the future of the economy
that I don't even know what itis.
20 years ago, who knew that thelargest hotel company in the
(25:34):
world wouldn't even own a singlehotel and it's called Airbnb?
Who would have thought that thegreatest taxi company doesn't
have a single taxi?
Those are the knowledges thatjust came up and you're going to
see many of those.
So we also have theresponsibility to educating kids
for the economy that we don'teven know how it looks like.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's teaching them also to be flexible and also to
learn and to apply those skillsbroadly.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Absolutely as a result, this whole notion of
mechanical engineering,psychology, this, and that
you've got to question the wholeissue of baccalaureate,
master's and PhD.
You've got to question all ofthose Because right now majoring
companies are coming up withthese credentials,
micro-credentials, and you cango and take it in three months,
pay about $500, chances are youcan get a $60,000 job.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And you probably know more about how to do it than
the person who spent four yearsin courses.
Well, the thing is.
That really strikes me, though,is that the problem is nobody
knows what to do.
Yet I was listening to theauthor of Sapiens, yuval Harari.
He was talking on a podcastabout that.
(26:46):
There is no one in governmentor business that can really help
us guide us.
The only people we have to lookto right now are sci-fi writers
, and they're the only ones thatare trying to predict what our
future is going to be likethey're the only ones that are
trying to predict what ourfuture is going to be like and
how as a university.
(27:09):
when you're having to make thesedecisions, I feel like you're
hit with like so many you know.
It's like you have tobrainstorm like, okay, we could
do it this way.
Are we going to be an onlineschool?
Are we going to hire, you know,executives to come in?
Are we going to become a bigYouTube channel, a podcast that
we're going to have teachers acertificate for?
How does it feel being in thatposition?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
You're absolutely right on, because all the things
that you just said areabsolutely possible and, as a
result, what you need to do, youneed to bring as many brains as
possible.
Talk to some industry leaderswe have been working with Cisco,
we've been working withMcKinsey and get those outside
perspectives of major advancedcompanies and see whether
(27:47):
together you can build andimagine this future.
Because, as you're sitting,actually we're looking at our
campus.
Our campus is divided by Route322.
That goes all the way toAtlantic City and in the
southern part is the old campusand I'm trying to rebuild, get
rid of all the old building andturn that into the campus of
21st century which is going tobe quite different, because
there is going to be a door,there is going to be a certain
(28:07):
knowledge, but it's going to bevery, very different.
Technology is going to play amajor role in the way that these
kids have to grow up and, in myopinion, universities should
exist indefinitely because everyparent should have the right,
at the age of 17 and 18, totrust their kids to go someplace
that is safe and they can learnto grow up and make good
decisions.
That's called a university.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Right, because you're learning so many things besides
just the actual major.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
You've got to be smart to function in this
complex world.
Those are the things that areabsolutely essential for every
one of us to continuemaintaining that university.
As we speak, we are planning an$80 million building for
College of Humanities and SocialSciences, but we want to really
.
We have partnered with ArizonaState in Dreamscape Learn, which
is highly advancedtechnology-based education, and
(28:55):
we are right now looking atdigital humanities.
You want people to put goggleson and they go, and you can
literally be within the, let'ssay, art in a museum and you can
fly in there and learn thingsthat way.
Or you can be in a field whereyou are touching a dinosaur or
testing whether the dinosaur issick and what kind of medicine
you want to give them.
All of that we can do right nowat Rowan.
(29:17):
So the new classrooms are goingto be very different, also
highly technology oriented.
We are investing massive amountof money on technology these
days because that's the way thefuture is and these kids are as
you just said.
Your sons and daughters areprobably far more advanced than
many of the professionals.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Well, that's an interesting thing too is that
I've been hearing that a lot ofwhite-collar jobs are being hit
right now, as the economy, withsome of the changes in the
government funding and there's ashrinking of white collar, blue
collar jobs are somewhat steadyand they are, in a way, growing
a little bit Because if you geta degree right now you're not
(29:56):
sure you're going to get a job,as we were speaking to earlier,
and what I think that you'resaying, that what Rowan is doing
, is they're trying to make itmuch more experiential, as
Rachel was saying, in a way thatyou do feel like you're going
to go to college and you'reactually getting hands-on work,
that you're going to go get ajob.
That's not going to bedisappearing.
That's really the fear now isthere isn't.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Because it's a major investment on the part of every
parent.
When you send your daughter toschool for four years, even to
public schools, you are lookingat tens of thousands of dollars
and when you look at thetotality of this thing upon
graduation, it's a mini mortgagefor an undergraduate.
If you go to professionaldegrees like medicine and
everything, now you're talkingabout a serious mortgage and you
(30:40):
cannot have a society wherepeople young people, come out of
college with massive burden ontheir shoulder and it delays
everything else that they wantto do, whether they want to buy
a house, buy a car, get married,go.
Everything needs to slow downso that they can deal with this
thing.
Now, with the federal government, with this one big, beautiful
bill that they're going to pass,that thing is going to
(31:01):
devastate hundreds of thousandsof Americans because Pell Grant
is going to get hit big time andthat means the poorest of the
poor are going to not be able togo to college.
Furthermore, the loan guaranteeis going to be even worse.
Federal loan guarantee iscritical because, for a
low-income person, they can gothere and get a loan without
paying interest until the daythat they start earning.
(31:24):
Now these kids have to go to abank.
Many of them would not qualify.
Even if they qualify, theinterest rate is significantly
higher and it would be accruedfrom day one that they get the
money.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's an interesting way to look at how I mean.
We do know that the equation isoff.
If the investment is so heavyinto getting the college degree,
then of course you're going towant the job right after.
That's the highest paying.
So more and more people want togo into a major that will be
high paying, and then all theseother majors are just neglected
(31:56):
because everyone's afraid ofgetting a job.
But I hadn't also thought aboutit with all the burden the
financial burden, how it delaysall the rest of your life,
Because having a job is one partof your life, it's a big part.
But then wanting a relationship, wanting a home, wanting maybe
kids or a family, if you'repushing all of that out as well,
(32:18):
what are those ramificationsfor the country?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Those are really, really serious ramifications.
They really are, because, Isaid, aging of a country is bad.
If you look at a country likeItaly, it's an aged country,
people are highly entitled and,as a result, the economy will
shrink and you can't afford tolet the number one political,
military and economic power inthe world to get into that
situation.
(32:40):
And, as I said, time yeah.
Well, one of the things that Iwanted to talk about.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
that's kind of related.
You brought it up at thebeginning and talking about
rankings of universities and USNews and World Report, there was
a very interesting kind oftelling interview that Malcolm
Gladwell had with the publishersof it, that relationship with
the peer review portion of thatand it's usually a president of
Harvard is asked whatuniversities do you like?
(33:17):
And they're like well, I likePrinceton and I like you know
whatever.
And you talk about in thatinterview that the hot sauce
that you have created, that yousent it out to every president
in all the university presidentsso they would get to know who
you were.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
With my picture on it too, With your picture.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Did you hear back?
What was the?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Oh yeah, a number of universities wrote and they were
very, very thankful andgrateful and they were very
creative.
In fact, rutgers copied us andthey created their own hot sauce
too.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Did they?
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Jersey.
So when did this start?
The hot sauce decision,Adventure yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Adventure started, I would say 15 years ago, when I
love gardening.
I do a lot of that.
I love nature and outside, so Igrow vegetable and one year I
grew a lot of peppers and Ibasically decided what to do and
I like experimentally cooking,I like to do that kind of stuff.
So I put it in the pot and madesome hot sauce with some spices
and other things.
It was okay and I keptimproving this and eventually
jarred them and gave them tosome of my staff and all my
(34:17):
colleagues, and that's how itbecame known as and in fact they
referred to it the first time Igave it to them I called it
Ali's Nasty and then eventually,I think about eight years ago,
my staff from the marketing cameand said would you be able to
make a batch and we will auctionit and see how it goes?
(34:38):
And I did.
I had to actually go home anddo that.
My wife kicked me out of thekitchen because the fume would
kill you, so we have a stove inthe garage.
That's where I did it.
It was auctioned and it wasvery popular and there were
people in the waiting list, so Idid.
Another batch, another batch,the in the waiting list so I did
another batch, another batchthe following year.
We went big.
We basically I started growingin a farm and we have a lot of
(35:02):
land in here and it has nowgotten into a major, major
operation.
What I do is I do three thingsactually.
It's not just the hot sauce.
I grow various peppers, 10different types of pepper, the
hottest in the world and webasically gather this thing tens
of thousands and we have gotstorage facilities over at
Rutgers Food Center inCumberland and that's where we
bought all these things and wesell them and all the proceeds
everything goes to needystudents, so it's purely for
(35:23):
needy students and expenses.
Most of it, some of it Iactually covered myself and we
have raised about $3 million andlots of students have been
helped.
So that's one project.
Million dollars and lots ofstudents have been helped.
So that's one project.
And then the second project isI also grow fruit and vegetables
.
Lots of that.
You know last year was 30,000pounds, this year I'm hoping
would be 50 tons.
And we box these things and wegive them to people, whether
(35:45):
it's church, whether people comeand line up on campus, whether
it's school district, and wehave a food pantry, so a lot of
people get that.
And the third thing that I dois I actually raise koi fish and
koi fish are used in aquaponicfarming.
We have a greenhouse where wegrow vegetables inside the thing
.
So I've got right now I've gotat least 20,000 baby fish that
I'm feeding every day.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Oh my goodness, you're starting your own
agriculture school.
We have it, we are trying.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
You do.
That's what I was going to ask.
Modern agriculture to Rowan yes.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Do you teach these?
Have these become courses?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Yes, there's a course , but I also teach the kids
about the business smallbusiness of hot sauce, from the
beginning to the end.
That's fun.
The students run this thing,they sell it and I teach them.
If you wanted to start your ownlandscaping, what is the first
thing you need to do?
What is the second thing youneed to do?
How do you start a smallfactory?
(36:39):
So they get Is it a course?
Speaker 1 (36:42):
It's not a conversation.
I think it needs to be a course.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yes, it should be a course, of course, but it's a
business course.
How do you go to a bank managerand borrow $5,000 to buy
equipment?
Those are the kind of thingsthat kids don't know how to do
that's exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's the most.
It's so tangible for them aswell.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Ask also about the PhD in creativity.
Well, I read about that and, asyou were speaking so much about
brainstorming about the futureof universities and teaching, I
mean that is all about beingable to be creative and think in
different ways and taking sortof an engineering background,
but also future think.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Absolutely you have to.
Really, the world is moving sofast that you really have to
have the ability to predict thefuture, Because if you don't,
you slow down, you stop.
In order for you to moveforward, you have to see what is
ahead of you.
So you really have to move andthat requires constant education
, constant learning, constantbeing involved, and it's
essential to do that.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So, in the PhD for creativity, what are some of the
things that people are givingyou feedback on with?
Speaker 3 (37:48):
it.
Well, actually, let me tell you, the PhD in creativity came
from University of Arts inPhiladelphia.
When they went belly up, yes,we adopted them.
So we brought the twoprofessors and the five students
who were in the program alreadyand they were finished and they
graduated.
This is the first year, that'sgreat.
Basically, it's the idea ofagain creativity in all facets
(38:09):
of life, the way that I dothings.
In order to be creative, Ialways try to imagine the
unimaginable.
I go above and beyond what iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Do you get those ideas a lot while you're growing
peppers?
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Being out in nature and doing something different.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
No, I was also a runner.
I was a marathoner.
I ran many marathons.
I used to really solve a lot ofmy problems during running.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
yes, when you are on your own and you're focusing, a
lot of great things happen.
Human mind is amazing when yougive it a chance.
Yeah, it is true, I thinkyou've given us a lot of very
hopeful, a lot of tips on how tolive our lives and a lot of
good hope for presidents ofuniversities like you that are
(38:52):
really, you know, thinking aboutthe tangible student and where,
how you can help them go outinto the world and succeed.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
That's our role, that's our job, though If we
don't in fact, if we don't dothat, in my opinion we have
failed.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Right.
I feel like there is this,though perception of many
university leaders of them notbeing, though perception of many
university leaders of them notbeing transformational leaders.
And, speaking to you, it's abreath of fresh air, but it's
also nice to see that you reallyare, and have been thinking
this way for Rowan.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
A long time yet.
Yeah, for a long time.
Higher education is veryresistant to change.
If you ask 10 professors howmany of you does it take to
change a light bulb, they say ohmy God change.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
But you have to now.
If you don't, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
The reason that we are successful in here is the
concept of openness andtransparency and honesty.
People cannot be fooled and youshould never look at any
individual less than purely adignified human being.
You've got to have thatattitude.
We have 22 unions in thisuniversity.
We don't have a single- 22.
We don't have a single unionproblem.
They come in here whatever theyask.
(40:01):
I give them the truth always.
We put our budget online foreverybody to see so you can see
the university finances yourself.
You can see what president doesor where he goes.
I think honesty is veryimportant today.
If you are that, then peoplecome along, Because, at the end
of the day, every human beingwants to have a dignified life
and wants to have a life withpurpose, and I really believe
the reason that this place issuccessful is exactly that.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I became us.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
That's the key.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
You've got to become us.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Because if you keep everybody inside the tent, those
who are outside will not peeall over the tent.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Well, I completely agree with that.
I heard something once it'slike people, when they get into
power, they really showthemselves.
You know who they really are,and I think that what you
demonstrated because you've beenin power longer than most
presidents of universities Ithink that— I'm the oldest in
New Jersey, actually right now.
Is that right?
The oldest president of auniversity?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
or the longest, the number of years.
I think the number of yearsyeah yeah, and oldest maybe too.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I don't think you're the oldest, but I think you
might be the longest.
So it seems that you definitelyhave kept this us and we theory
working.
Rowan is just growing andgrowing.
I mean, we saw the rankings.
Whether they are truthful ornot, as we hear that US World,
whatever news and report, issometimes questionable, but
yours do seem to be going up andup and up.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
I mean, we have many universities right now have
enrollment problems.
We have the reverse ofenrollment problems.
Our challenge for next yearactually is how do we have
enough dorm room for ourstudents?
We have to triple some kids.
That makes volume about thequality of the institution, the
safety of the campus, the beautyof the campus, because at the
end of the day, you've got tocreate home away from home for
these kids.
These are the kids who haveleft the home for the first time
(41:46):
.
They were fed, their clotheswere washed, the bed was made,
all of these things.
Suddenly, all of it is gone andthey're going to do it
themselves and it's a shock.
People don't realize that.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Honestly, that's a very good point because I think
that gets overlooked when allthese kids freshmen go to
college campuses all over, andthen a lot of them are not
prepared at all for that.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
No, it's like a military camp.
It's difficult because thinkabout the kid who has been in a
very protective environment in arural area.
Suddenly you come to thisuniversity where everybody
speaks different language, theylook differently and there is a
competition and everybody wantsto get ahead of you.
It's overwhelming.
You know, you've gone from highschool where you have seen the
same kid for the past 12 yearsand you're very close and
(42:27):
suddenly all of it is gone and awhole new group of people,
vastly different in their look,in their accent, in their way,
and that's a challenge.
And then you have to balanceyour own budget, get up early in
the morning, make sure thatyour time is all of these things
you have to do.
So have some sympathy for ourkids.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
For sure, for sure, we do have a lot of sympathy.
Well, because we're goingthrough it with our own kids.
We are.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
We are Well, it's such a fascinating story that
you have, from your humblebeginnings in Iran to being the
leader of a university that'sjust growing and taking care of
all of our children, you know,and helping them navigate this
world.
It's been an honor to speakwith you, thank you.
Thank you for all that you do.
We do close out our interviewswith a question, and the
(43:13):
question is is there somethingthat stands out to you that you
do?
We do close out our interviewswith a question, and the
question is is there somethingthat stands out to you that you
really love about New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Jersey tomato.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
The Jersey tomato that is so perfect.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
I grow a lot of them and if you give me your address,
I'll send you some hot sauceand tomato.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
We will then Not only .
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Come in actually pick your own.
You could come with a truck,fill it up and take it there and
give it to the churches aroundyour home.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I love that.
That's a great idea.
That would be great, jeanette,let's do that Road trip.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Road trip.
Come and see Rowan.
Yes, if you want your kids here, come and see the campus.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
It's a beautiful campus.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
It really is very nice.
I feel very good about thisthing because people's kids are
safe.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Well, you know I wanted to.
I was telling Rachel I don'tknow whether I should say it or
not and full disclosure my sonpicked Rowan.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
That's great.
I'm glad to hear that I'm goingto see more of you, hopefully.
What major does he want to do?
What major?
Speaker 1 (44:08):
What is his major?
He doesn't a no yet, I thinkit's going to be.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
The thing is it's not sure.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, it's good to explore, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's really 40, more than 40% or close to 50% of our
students.
When they come in they'reexploring.
They don't know what they wantto do.
Yeah, I myself went throughthree major changes.
I was electrical engineering,computer engineering, then
mathematics and then industrialengineering.
So let them explore, let themfind their own ways, and it's
the best way because at the endof the day, they don't get to
(44:35):
blame you for it to eat it.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I think that is super important advice and I try to
give that to as many friends asI can is do not push your kids
into a major.
You will regret it, they willbe angry with you and they can
hold it over your head the restof your life and it's not worth
it.
No, it wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Let them make their own decisions and all you need
to do is stay in contact and ifthey don't respond to you, they
don't come and visit.
Write them a nice letter Hi,son, I love you.
I love that you're so friendlywith your new girlfriend, that
the classes are good.
Oh, by the way, here is $200money.
Why don't you go to dinner withyour girlfriend?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
And then don't put the the money in there, he will
call you.
I love that.
Well, thank you, dr Houshman,for coming on Lost in Jersey.
It's been a pleasure to meetyou and I'm just grateful that
my son will be going to thisschool.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
I'm so glad that she is and I look forward to seeing
you.
Thank you for the interview.
It was wonderful speaking withboth of you.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Hi, rachel, hey, Jeanette, we just had a great
interview with Dr Huchman, thepresident of Rowan University,
which is a university.
That is, what is it?
33 miles from Philadelphia?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yes, I did look that up and it was 33 miles.
I actually mapped it to SouthStreet.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So it's really.
I looked at the map too.
It's right between Philadelphiaand Atlantic.
City, so it's like, right downthere, it's a Southern part of
New Jersey and a lot of peopledon't know about it in Northern
New Jersey and we're like, well,you need to.
Yes absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Why do you say that, Rachel?
Well, he's so dynamic.
This was such a fun interviewand I just loved hearing how, as
a university president, he'sbeen president of Rowan for it's
like 11 years.
10, 11 years now, Right, yeah,something like that.
And he's the epitome of atransformational leader that's
how I look at him and that he isre-envisioning constantly what
(01:00):
higher education should looklike and enabling the staff and
the students at Rowan to benefitfrom that.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, he came from Iran and he came from a humble
beginnings and he tells us alittle bit about this and his
journey here, and then we go onto talk about the university
itself and he is very much, asyou mentioned in the interview,
into experiential education,where people are getting their
degree in combination withlearning how to actually go and
(01:29):
get the job, you know, trainingthem for that specific job.
And he goes on to tell us alittle bit about his hot sauce
that he makes.
He gives us the background onthe whole operation, which is
quite big and fascinating and, Iwould say, the pepper on top of
the interview.
I love that Of this reallywonderful university, a very, as
(01:52):
you said, formative presidentof a university who seems to
hold all of the traits that onewould want in a president of a
university.
Enjoy this interview.
Welcome to Lost in Jersey, DrHoushman.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Thank you.
Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I reached out to you because you are the president of
Rowan University and theuniversity came onto our radar
because both of us have kidsthat have been heading off to
college.
I have a son right now that'sheading off to college, and I
have a son right now that'sheading off to college, and my
husband toured many of the NewJersey universities and he went
to your university and he wouldnot stop raving about Rowan.
I think everybody in our circleof friends were like well, where
(02:41):
is Rowan?
And that was surprising to us.
So we wanted to bring you on tolet people know more about it.
And Rachel also, how did Rowancome on your radar?
I?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
remember hearing about it through the Malcolm
Gladwell podcast the revisionisthistory.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yes, yeah, I had two interviews with Malcolm.
There was one of them about.
The title was my Little $100Million Gift.
Yes, talked about Henry Rowan'smoney and the other one about
the whole issue of how you rankinstitutions based on US News
and World Report.
Basically, every president getsthis survey of 4,000 or so
universities and you want toscale, rank them by scale of one
(03:21):
to five.
I said how the hell do I knowthat?
The only way that I do it Isend every president a bottle of
my hot sauce.
Hopefully they will remember meand give me a better ranking.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I love that, I love that story and we are so glad
that you brought it up becausewe definitely want to talk to
you about that.
(03:50):
But before we get to the hotsauce and how Rowan found itself
on Malcolm Gladwell about the$100 million we'd like to get,
it's a very profound story.
Tell us a little bit about yourbackground.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
My background is I was born in the rough part of
Tehran, in the rough part.
Let's just leave it at that,okay.
Yeah, my mom and dad wereilliterate and my father came
from the eastern part of Mashhad, my mom from another eastern
town, damqan, and they had manychildren.
They were hardworking people,especially my dad, and they had
(04:23):
12 children.
I believe two of them passedand then the 10.
And I'm the fifth one.
Wow In the middle, yes, and 1975, I finished my high school and
I entered the entrance exam forthe universities.
The first time I didn't pass.
And then I had the choice ofeither going to the military to
do my two years of militaryservice or find an alternative
(04:44):
of going abroad.
And I had taken a test inEnglish.
I barely passed it by 51%, Iremember, and passing it was 50.
Now the question was could Iafford to go in there?
And my older brother, who hadjust got a job at Internal
Revenue Service in Iran, hebasically bought me a one-way
ticket to London and it's $70.
(05:06):
And that was my trip to theWest.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So you arrived in London with $70.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And you were going to go to school there.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yes.
So I went there and after oneweek I was frying Kentucky Fried
Chicken for 50 pence an hourand basically I went through
school paying for myself,working various jobs cleaning
the bars.
You know, in England whenpeople go drink they kind of
drink a lot and they make a lotof mess, including throwing up
and everything.
So my job was this was auniversity bar I wake up on
(05:41):
Friday, saturdays and Sundaymorning at 6 am and go and clean
up the place.
Wow, so that was the job I waspaying.
I was being paid, I think, 50pence an hour, about half a
British pound, and that wasenough.
Because I was then living witha family, the Gilchrist family,
who I was paying pounds a weekfor a room, breakfast and dinner
, and the breakfast consisted ofcereal, milk and one boiled egg
(06:04):
and a piece of toast.
So I will hide the piece oftoast and a boiled egg and run
from a school lunchtime and eatthat for lunch, and that's how I
basically, you know it was avery struggling time, so you had
a host family.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Is that what that?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
was?
Was it a host family?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
family and then you stayed with them and you just
scraped by as you went tocollege, but it seems that you
had a real acumen formathematics.
Is that?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
math background and actually when I did go to
England I ended up doing abachelor's and master's in
mathematics and it was reallythe greatest thing that I did,
because actually when mydaughter was a teenager, I gave
(06:53):
her advice and I said I'll giveyou three advice.
I said number one learnmathematics because it teaches
you logic and logical thinkingis really the best way.
Number two become a runner,because it makes you humble and
it hurts.
And number three never let aman pay for you.
Learn to learn your own livingand your own job so that you
(07:13):
don't depend on others.
And she did all three of them.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
That's great life advice.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, she ended up with a PhD in biomedical
engineering.
She worked for McKinsey andthen now works for Boston
Scientific.
She's a leading authority indeep brain stimulation.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Wow, that's impressive.
So does she live in New Jerseytoo?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
No, she lives in Maryland.
She lives in Maryland, yes.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I see so well, how did you I mean while you're
going to school how did you endup coming to the United States?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I finished my master's degree at the
University of Essex they didn'thave a doctoral program at that
time and then I went to myadvisor, professor Winston, and
asked Professor Winston, Iwanted to study sampling theory,
which people use in polling andother stuff for elections.
And where do you think I shouldgo?
And he said you should go toIndia.
India is very good.
(08:03):
And I said I don't want to goto India, I want to go to West.
What about America?
And he said well, there is thisuniversity near Detroit.
Everybody has gone, they shooteach other, but the university
is not bad.
Honestly, he literally saidthat he meant University of
Michigan.
So I went to the library, I gotthis stuff and I got
applications, sent it them.
A week later they accepted meand that's how I ended up at the
University of Michigan doing aPhD in statistics.
(08:25):
And after one year I switchedbecause it was so boring and so
theoretical.
I switched to industrial andoperations engineering and I got
another master's and adoctorate there and did you find
Detroit?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
that was an accurate description or no?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I consider Ann Arbor the greatest place on the face
of the earth.
It's my love city.
It's a place that my kids wereborn.
I absolutely adore that place.
I would give my left hand tolive in Ann Arbor.
Oh, that's so nice yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That's a really common thing.
I think that overseas, inEurope and other places, when
people look at the United States, they really, you know, they
get fed the big stories, the bigthings that hit the news and it
kind of frames a picture ofthis place.
So I think that that's a commonthing.
That's true.
What they're hearing is notaccurate, so that's nice to hear
that it was also that case here.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So after you were there, how did you end up at
Rowan?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Okay, Once I finished my PhD I got hired at United
Airlines.
My PhD I got hired at UnitedAirlines and my job was to
basically, with a team of otherPhDs, we would schedule 2,100
flights a day, 310 days inadvance.
It was an optimization model toincrease the revenue for the
airlines and it was kind of easyand boring.
(09:38):
So after six-month activity,somebody from University of
Cincinnati called me and saidwould you like to be a faculty?
I said sure.
The next day I flew over thereIn the afternoon, they gave me a
job and that's how I moved toCincinnati as a professor.
I was there for 10 years.
Then, in near 2000, I moved toDrexel University in the
(09:58):
administration position, Wasthere for six years, Was there
for six years and then in 2006,I came here after I saw an ad
and I applied and I wasinterviewed for three days and
they were crazy enough to giveme a job.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I didn't really know where exactly Rowan was located,
and I see that you're veryclose to Drexel.
It's like 30 minutes to Philly,it's such a great location.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Actually, our location, in my opinion, is very
, very strategic because thesouthern New Jersey eight
counties, about 4,600 squaremiles, and there are a lot of
land available and the price ofhouses are ridiculously low.
You can basically buy a housein a custom build with 10 acres
of land under a million dollars.
You would never find anythinglike that in North Jersey.
(10:44):
So what we are doing, what I amdoing right now, given that our
location we did 25 miles radiusthere are nine medical schools
in this region.
Number one eye hospital in theworld is in Philadelphia.
Number one children's hospitalin the world is in Philadelphia.
Number one cancer world canceris in Camden, philadelphia.
So what I'm trying to do is I'mtrying to really focus on the
(11:07):
Southern New Jersey and sellthis thing as a new Silicon
Valley, because the SiliconValley of California has been
exhausted.
The property values are out ofreach for many people.
Even home insurance is out ofreach for many people and they
have really exhausted themselves.
And where we are, within150-mile radius of our campus,
there are 45 million Americanslive here, whereas within
(11:30):
150-mile radius in SiliconValley there are only 15 million
people.
Another thing within 150-mileradius in Silicon Valley there
are only 11 top researchuniversities, whereas within
150-mile radius there are 36 topresearch universities in our
region.
Yes, so access to airport,seaport, highways of all sorts,
(11:52):
population and sandwich betweenthe political world center of
the world, washington DC, andfinancial center of the world,
new York, and cultural worldPhiladelphia, atlantic City
there is not a place on the faceof America that is as strategic
, in my opinion, for thatproject.
So that's what I'm promotingright now aggressively.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, I love that.
We actually just interviewedGovernor Murphy and he was
saying how New Jersey is thestate that has the largest
amount of scientists of anystate in the country, and he was
also talking about being thenew Silicon Valley and getting
much more VC investment inengineering AI, photonics, which
(12:37):
he introduced a new science tous, and all the medical research
, like you were saying, and youhave two medical schools,
correct?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We have three really.
If you look at the veterinaryschool, that's the third medical
school, the vet right.
Yes, we are only one of twouniversities in the nation that
have allopathic, osteopathic andveterinary school.
The other one is Michigan State.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
To that point, what are the key points that you like
to highlight about RowanUniversity?
I know that it has been growingand the research institution
has been growing and the medicaldepartments are growing.
What's your elevator pitch topeople about Rowan?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Your child is safe.
Your child will not be burdenedwith massive amount of debt.
Your child will have a greatcultural experience in here and
after four or five years yourchild is a successful citizen.
Taxpayer, that's what I want.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
What more could you want?
That's what we want.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
That's what everybody wants.
That's what every parent doeswant.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
A decent education, not be burdened.
We'll go and get a decent joband leave us alone.
Right yeah, that's what hewants.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, not leave us alone too much.
Come visit, keep your distance,don't give us no more problems.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
You don't need money.
If you need money, don't comesee me again.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's right.
That's perfectly well said,well said.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
First of all, rowan University.
Right now, I can tell youconfidently as an engineer,
rowan Engineering is only nextto UPenn Engineering in terms of
quality.
The quality of the studentsthat come to Rowan Engineering
are out of charge.
Overwhelming majority of themgraduate in four years and more
than 100 of them every year arehired by Lockheed Martin and the
(14:15):
average salary is $90,000.
That's our quality.
I mean people need toinvestigate the quality of
engineering.
I would send my kids to here.
In fact, my son went to hereand I would send them any day,
because this is a top-notchengineering program.
It really is, and every singleone of those kids get a decent
job and they're a productivecitizen and that's what we offer
(14:37):
in here and the campus theother one is absolutely gorgeous
.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It is.
It's gorgeous Within thedepartments.
What have you seen?
Now, one of the things that wealluded to earlier is about the
Malcolm Gladwell interviews thatyou did.
Now.
Rowan University is about 100years old now I think you just
celebrated the anniversary andthat Hank Rowan donated $100
million to the university.
Back in what was it?
1992?
(15:01):
1992.
And since then that money hashelped expand the university.
You know, back then, $100million, you know, shook the
world.
That was a large amount ofmoney, huge, and he went to MIT
but he didn't give it to themBecause, not that he didn't
appreciate it, he just felt likeit won't make that big of a
difference to that university asit would to Rowan.
(15:21):
How has that affected Rowan?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Well in a monumental way.
Honestly, before that, when thegift was given, before that,
rowan really was an unknownplace, highly localized and
regional university around here.
Kids from the counties aroundhere would come in here and it
was, to a great extent, an openaccess university.
It really wasn't anything thatwas impressive.
That's why a lot of people inNorth Jersey didn't know about
(15:44):
it Increasingly more do, becauseright now most of our
applicants are actually fromNorth Jersey.
So up until then they reallywere not anything, until Henry
Rowan came in and he said, inorder for him to have the
maximum impact of his gift, hewanted to create a college of
engineering.
That is the best, that isunique, that every engineer will
become a useful, productivecitizen.
(16:05):
That was his demand.
And then what they did?
They did a brilliant job ofgoing and recruiting the top
deans from MIT and otherengineering to come in here and
give them advice how do we buildthe most amazing engineering
college?
And based on their advice, theyhave built something that is
very, very unique.
It's a clinic base in thatstudents come in from year one.
They work on an industrialproject all four years.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
See, that's what I would have liked.
I studied engineering actuallyat UPenn.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
It was a long time ago, but I would say, you know
they've done a lot ofimprovements and I don't want to
speak badly of my time there.
I mean, I learned a lot there,but I did not love the
engineering program.
I did not feel it was veryhands-on, considering all that?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yes, I know.
Yes, Because they prepare youfor a PhD.
That's what they do.
Big universities like that.
They really want to give youthe kind of education that you
can go to graduate school.
But for us, we want to get aperson who can finish and go on
board for Lockheed Martin.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I love that.
To make it an experiential,you're in the labs, you're
actually working and seeing howthings work.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And that's why, as I said, the largest employer of
our students right now is thismajor company, global company,
and they're very proud.
They don't hire from otheruniversities around here.
They get all of their engineersfrom us.
That's fantastic.
A hundred per year, that'samazing, that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Because you're also knowing that the people are
graduating from that kind of anexperience really enjoy what
they're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
And actually, like in Martin, what they do.
They also have a combat systemsengineering certificate that
they teach every one of thosekids who they want to hire.
So their staff teach them andget them an additional
certificate above and beyond anengineering degree.
Amazing, Preparing them to workfor above and beyond an
engineering degree.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Amazing Preparing them to work for them.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
That's exactly it.
Yes, and that, to me, is thefuture of higher education in
this country.
We need to do education basedon make to order.
If you are a company and youare in need of certain talent,
we should be responsible toprovide that to you, rather than
the way that it is today.
We just educate people withoutany connection with the real
world of what is the need, andwe do disproportionate graduates
(18:08):
from different fields based onthe need.
Think about, for example, justan example psychology versus
mechanical engineering.
The state needs a thousandengineers mechanical engineers
and we'll be producing 500.
Then we are not doing a serviceto the state.
If the state needs 100psychologists and we are
producing a thousand, we are notdoing a service to the state.
If the state needs 100psychologists and we are
producing 1,000, we are notdoing any service to those 900
other people.
And we need to make sure thatwe produce what the country and
(18:31):
what the economy needs.
And that, to me, requires a farcloser collaboration with
industries.
They need to come in, even atthe curricular level, to work
with us to see exactly how do weneed to train these future
generations, because this is ahighly knowledge economy and you
want to make sure that everysingle one of your kids are
educated in the right way sothat they can be a successful
citizen, because this is a veryaggressive world.
(18:53):
This is not a thing that peoplecan kind of step back and wait
for.
The opportunity Opportunitiescome and go like this, and you
need to create educatedworkforce, and especially today.
Come and go like this, and weneed to create educated
workforce, and especially today.
Because if you look at oursituation right now, everybody
the country is very much againstillegal immigrants, so we don't
want immigrants.
I mean, even thisadministration doesn't even want
legal immigrants from some partof the world.
(19:14):
So that's one thing.
The other thing is that,unfortunately, people these days
are getting married much laterand chances are they will have
either one or no child.
And two of them are my kids, 36and 38, both married, no kids.
So that's the second thing.
And the third thing is that weare attacking DER in a very,
very aggressive way.
What we are doing, we arebasically aging the country and
(19:35):
not producing enough youngpeople to run this massive
knowledge economy and, as aresult, countries like China and
India will get ahead of us, andthat's the danger right now, in
my opinion.
If you don't want an immigrant,fine, great, I'm fine with that.
If people don't want to havechildren, that's their business,
that's their right.
But why don't we go and look atevery single one of our own
citizens and turn them intoproductive ones?
(19:57):
Think about a kid who liveswith their single mother in
Canada, and that kid could goone direction or the other,
could end up in the wrongdirection, end up in prison,
where you and I and everybodyelse pays to incarcerate them,
or turn them into productivecitizens where that person pays
taxes for the benefit of all ofus.
That's the choice that we haveand we are killing it.
My argument about DEI is notentitlement.
It's really looking forexcellence for the good of the
(20:18):
country.
It's not entitlement.
It's really looking forexcellence for the good of the
country.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
It's a really fascinating thing to hear your
philosophy like this as thepresident of a university.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's the truth, because, you know, I do not
really believe in giving peoplehandouts.
I believe everybody should havea skin in the game, but it's
crazy of us when there arebrilliant kids around here,
different from differentbackgrounds, different color and
everything.
They are the assets of thiscountry.
If you let them fade, they'llbecome a burden to this country,
(20:49):
and we can't afford it because,as I said, we are competing
with countries that are very,very aggressive.
India and China together have 3billion people that's nine
times the population of theUnited States and they can
afford to have tons of engineersand scientists and run the
global economy.
And the day that one countrygets the perfect AI, that's when
(21:09):
they rule the world, and webetter be prepared for that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
How are that is?
You brought up a couple ofpoints that I think that we
wanted to discuss with you.
With regards to that is theaging population and enrollment
dropping, and I believe it wassomething.
There's a cliff that's supposedto happen, that there's not
going to be as many people goingto college, and there's also a
(21:34):
lot of people, because of theextreme amount of knowledge
available online now, arechoosing to learn their skills.
And I'll use my own family asan example.
My oldest son goes to Baruch.
He commutes into the city fromMontclair to New York City and
he is taking computer sciencethere, but he feels he knows
(21:56):
more than the professors do.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
He's absolutely right .
Speaker 1 (21:59):
He's basically building a career on his own at
night through all thistechnology that he's doing and
he just feels like he's going tocollege just because he's SAS.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Just wants to get the credential, but that's the
challenge that we are facing.
That's the biggest challengethat the United States face in
higher education is this how dowe transition the faculty
members and professors from sageon the stage into a guide on
the side, because they're nolonger sages?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Sage on the stage to a guide on the side.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Probably I've got far more knowledge than many of
those professors, becausethey're better with this than
they are.
We are slower.
So, as a result, the questionis, what is going to happen to,
let's say, your grandchild 17years from now to go to college?
How is that college going tolook like?
Is it going to be still aclassroom with 30 people where
professor comes and writes onthe board and everybody copies
(22:51):
and takes the exam and get adegree?
That's not going to happen.
You're not going to do that.
We are in the age of AI, we arein the age of fast-moving
knowledge and, as a result, weneed to restructure and redefine
the whole notion of auniversity, not only the role of
the faculty, role of credential, role of pricing and the way
that we educate people.
And, on top of thatinfrastructure, the buildings
(23:14):
that we want to build today isgoing to last 50, 60 years from
now.
You're going to invest $100million to build a building.
It better be functional 50years from now.
The way that the knowledgeinvest $100 million to build a
building it better be functional50 years from now.
The knowledge is going rightnow Today's building you build
the technology first and thenput the brick and mortar around
it to support it.
Up until now it was brick andmortar first and a punch of hole
in the buildings to get wiresthrough there.
(23:35):
We need to transition all ofthis.
Everything is going upside downas a result of knowledge.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Well, what do you think then about the professors
that have been teaching acertain way for so long?
How to retrain them?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We are giving them a lot of, but there are a number
of ways.
To begin with, you know, thewhole issue of promotion and
tenure is going to become muchmore related to you know how
they perform.
But, more importantly, we aregiving them the tools, the
ability to go and learn new wayof delivering knowledge.
Imagine that you know you cango in there and get a YouTube or
TED talk and a five-minute talkto give it to the students.
(24:08):
Go and listen to this thing andcome back and let's discuss it.
What I think the education ofthe future is going to be versus
the education of today.
The education of today is thatknowledge transformation.
Right?
That means I have the knowledgeyou don't have it.
I give it to you.
Right?
That means I have the knowledgeyou don't have it, I give it to
you.
You got to use it to betteryour life.
This is no longer the case.
The future education is goingto be I know how to use this
(24:30):
knowledge to make good decisions.
I'm going to teach you how touse this knowledge to make good
decisions rather than how tomemorize that knowledge.
Right?
So both of us have the sameknowledge, except that I know
how to package it to make a gooddecision in life, and I need to
teach you that that's going tobe the new education.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
And do you feel that that can apply also to the
liberal arts classes?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
This is critical, absolutely critical, for this
country and universities not todamage or undermine humanities
and social sciences.
And the reason for that is thisbecause if we do, we're going
to have a lot of robots.
All kids are going to becomerobots.
We need to have a whole person,because in today's knowledge,
the notion of you going tocollege and get a degree and
(25:12):
then work with your degree forthe rest of your career, that's
done, it's not going to happen.
Chances are you're going tohave 10 different jobs, multiple
careers, multiple jobs and someof the jobs that the industries
have not yet been created, ofcourse.
Imagine I'm preparing these kidsfor the future of the economy
that I don't even know what itis.
20 years ago, who knew that thelargest hotel company in the
(25:34):
world wouldn't even own a singlehotel and it's called Airbnb?
Who would have thought that thegreatest taxi company doesn't
have a single taxi?
Those are the knowledges thatjust came up and you're going to
see many of those.
So we also have theresponsibility to educating kids
for the economy that we don'teven know how it looks like.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's teaching them also to be flexible and also to
learn and to apply those skillsbroadly.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Absolutely as a result, this whole notion of
mechanical engineering,psychology, this, and that
you've got to question the wholeissue of baccalaureate,
master's and PhD.
You've got to question all ofthose Because right now majoring
companies are coming up withthese credentials,
micro-credentials, and you cango and take it in three months,
pay about $500, chances are youcan get a $60,000 job.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And you probably know more about how to do it than
the person who spent four yearsin courses.
Well, the thing is.
That really strikes me, though,is that the problem is nobody
knows what to do.
Yet I was listening to theauthor of Sapiens, yuval Harari.
He was talking on a podcastabout that.
(26:46):
There is no one in governmentor business that can really help
us guide us.
The only people we have to lookto right now are sci-fi writers
, and they're the only ones thatare trying to predict what our
future is going to be likethey're the only ones that are
trying to predict what ourfuture is going to be like and
how as a university.
(27:09):
when you're having to make thesedecisions, I feel like you're
hit with like so many you know.
It's like you have tobrainstorm like, okay, we could
do it this way.
Are we going to be an onlineschool?
Are we going to hire, you know,executives to come in?
Are we going to become a bigYouTube channel, a podcast that
we're going to have teachers acertificate for?
How does it feel being in thatposition?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
You're absolutely right on, because all the things
that you just said areabsolutely possible and, as a
result, what you need to do, youneed to bring as many brains as
possible.
Talk to some industry leaderswe have been working with Cisco,
we've been working withMcKinsey and get those outside
perspectives of major advancedcompanies and see whether
(27:47):
together you can build andimagine this future.
Because, as you're sitting,actually we're looking at our
campus.
Our campus is divided by Route322.
That goes all the way toAtlantic City and in the
southern part is the old campusand I'm trying to rebuild, get
rid of all the old building andturn that into the campus of
21st century which is going tobe quite different, because
there is going to be a door,there is going to be a certain
(28:07):
knowledge, but it's going to bevery, very different.
Technology is going to play amajor role in the way that these
kids have to grow up and, in myopinion, universities should
exist indefinitely because everyparent should have the right,
at the age of 17 and 18, totrust their kids to go someplace
that is safe and they can learnto grow up and make good
decisions.
That's called a university.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Right, because you're learning so many things besides
just the actual major.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
You've got to be smart to function in this
complex world.
Those are the things that areabsolutely essential for every
one of us to continuemaintaining that university.
As we speak, we are planning an$80 million building for
College of Humanities and SocialSciences, but we want to really
.
We have partnered with ArizonaState in Dreamscape Learn, which
is highly advancedtechnology-based education, and
(28:55):
we are right now looking atdigital humanities.
You want people to put goggleson and they go, and you can
literally be within the, let'ssay, art in a museum and you can
fly in there and learn thingsthat way.
Or you can be in a field whereyou are touching a dinosaur or
testing whether the dinosaur issick and what kind of medicine
you want to give them.
All of that we can do right nowat Rowan.
(29:17):
So the new classrooms are goingto be very different, also
highly technology oriented.
We are investing massive amountof money on technology these
days because that's the way thefuture is and these kids are as
you just said.
Your sons and daughters areprobably far more advanced than
many of the professionals.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Well, that's an interesting thing too is that
I've been hearing that a lot ofwhite-collar jobs are being hit
right now, as the economy, withsome of the changes in the
government funding and there's ashrinking of white collar, blue
collar jobs are somewhat steadyand they are, in a way, growing
a little bit Because if you geta degree right now you're not
(29:56):
sure you're going to get a job,as we were speaking to earlier,
and what I think that you'resaying, that what Rowan is doing
, is they're trying to make itmuch more experiential, as
Rachel was saying, in a way thatyou do feel like you're going
to go to college and you'reactually getting hands-on work,
that you're going to go get ajob.
That's not going to bedisappearing.
That's really the fear now isthere isn't.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Because it's a major investment on the part of every
parent.
When you send your daughter toschool for four years, even to
public schools, you are lookingat tens of thousands of dollars
and when you look at thetotality of this thing upon
graduation, it's a mini mortgagefor an undergraduate.
If you go to professionaldegrees like medicine and
everything, now you're talkingabout a serious mortgage and you
(30:40):
cannot have a society wherepeople young people, come out of
college with massive burden ontheir shoulder and it delays
everything else that they wantto do, whether they want to buy
a house, buy a car, get married,go.
Everything needs to slow downso that they can deal with this
thing.
Now, with the federal government, with this one big, beautiful
bill that they're going to pass,that thing is going to
(31:01):
devastate hundreds of thousandsof Americans because Pell Grant
is going to get hit big time andthat means the poorest of the
poor are going to not be able togo to college.
Furthermore, the loan guaranteeis going to be even worse.
Federal loan guarantee iscritical because, for a
low-income person, they can gothere and get a loan without
paying interest until the daythat they start earning.
(31:24):
Now these kids have to go to abank.
Many of them would not qualify.
Even if they qualify, theinterest rate is significantly
higher and it would be accruedfrom day one that they get the
money.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's an interesting way to look at how I mean.
We do know that the equation isoff.
If the investment is so heavyinto getting the college degree,
then of course you're going towant the job right after.
That's the highest paying.
So more and more people want togo into a major that will be
high paying, and then all theseother majors are just neglected
(31:56):
because everyone's afraid ofgetting a job.
But I hadn't also thought aboutit with all the burden the
financial burden, how it delaysall the rest of your life,
Because having a job is one partof your life, it's a big part.
But then wanting a relationship, wanting a home, wanting maybe
kids or a family, if you'repushing all of that out as well,
(32:18):
what are those ramificationsfor the country?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Those are really, really serious ramifications.
They really are, because, Isaid, aging of a country is bad.
If you look at a country likeItaly, it's an aged country,
people are highly entitled and,as a result, the economy will
shrink and you can't afford tolet the number one political,
military and economic power inthe world to get into that
situation.
(32:40):
And, as I said, time yeah.
Well, one of the things that Iwanted to talk about.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
that's kind of related.
You brought it up at thebeginning and talking about
rankings of universities and USNews and World Report, there was
a very interesting kind oftelling interview that Malcolm
Gladwell had with the publishersof it, that relationship with
the peer review portion of thatand it's usually a president of
Harvard is asked whatuniversities do you like?
(33:17):
And they're like well, I likePrinceton and I like you know
whatever.
And you talk about in thatinterview that the hot sauce
that you have created, that yousent it out to every president
in all the university presidentsso they would get to know who
you were.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
With my picture on it too, With your picture.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Did you hear back?
What was the?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Oh yeah, a number of universities wrote and they were
very, very thankful andgrateful and they were very
creative.
In fact, rutgers copied us andthey created their own hot sauce
too.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Did they?
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Jersey.
So when did this start?
The hot sauce decision,Adventure yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Adventure started, I would say 15 years ago, when I
love gardening.
I do a lot of that.
I love nature and outside, so Igrow vegetable and one year I
grew a lot of peppers and Ibasically decided what to do and
I like experimentally cooking,I like to do that kind of stuff.
So I put it in the pot and madesome hot sauce with some spices
and other things.
It was okay and I keptimproving this and eventually
jarred them and gave them tosome of my staff and all my
(34:17):
colleagues, and that's how itbecame known as and in fact they
referred to it the first time Igave it to them I called it
Ali's Nasty and then eventually,I think about eight years ago,
my staff from the marketing cameand said would you be able to
make a batch and we will auctionit and see how it goes?
(34:38):
And I did.
I had to actually go home anddo that.
My wife kicked me out of thekitchen because the fume would
kill you, so we have a stove inthe garage.
That's where I did it.
It was auctioned and it wasvery popular and there were
people in the waiting list, so Idid.
Another batch, another batch,the in the waiting list so I did
another batch, another batchthe following year.
We went big.
We basically I started growingin a farm and we have a lot of
(35:02):
land in here and it has nowgotten into a major, major
operation.
What I do is I do three thingsactually.
It's not just the hot sauce.
I grow various peppers, 10different types of pepper, the
hottest in the world and webasically gather this thing tens
of thousands and we have gotstorage facilities over at
Rutgers Food Center inCumberland and that's where we
bought all these things and wesell them and all the proceeds
everything goes to needystudents, so it's purely for
(35:23):
needy students and expenses.
Most of it, some of it Iactually covered myself and we
have raised about $3 million andlots of students have been
helped.
So that's one project.
Million dollars and lots ofstudents have been helped.
So that's one project.
And then the second project isI also grow fruit and vegetables
.
Lots of that.
You know last year was 30,000pounds, this year I'm hoping
would be 50 tons.
And we box these things and wegive them to people, whether
(35:45):
it's church, whether people comeand line up on campus, whether
it's school district, and wehave a food pantry, so a lot of
people get that.
And the third thing that I dois I actually raise koi fish and
koi fish are used in aquaponicfarming.
We have a greenhouse where wegrow vegetables inside the thing
.
So I've got right now I've gotat least 20,000 baby fish that
I'm feeding every day.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Oh my goodness, you're starting your own
agriculture school.
We have it, we are trying.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
You do.
That's what I was going to ask.
Modern agriculture to Rowan yes.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Do you teach these?
Have these become courses?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Yes, there's a course , but I also teach the kids
about the business smallbusiness of hot sauce, from the
beginning to the end.
That's fun.
The students run this thing,they sell it and I teach them.
If you wanted to start your ownlandscaping, what is the first
thing you need to do?
What is the second thing youneed to do?
How do you start a smallfactory?
(36:39):
So they get Is it a course?
Speaker 1 (36:42):
It's not a conversation.
I think it needs to be a course.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yes, it should be a course, of course, but it's a
business course.
How do you go to a bank managerand borrow $5,000 to buy
equipment?
Those are the kind of thingsthat kids don't know how to do
that's exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's the most.
It's so tangible for them aswell.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Ask also about the PhD in creativity.
Well, I read about that and, asyou were speaking so much about
brainstorming about the futureof universities and teaching, I
mean that is all about beingable to be creative and think in
different ways and taking sortof an engineering background,
but also future think.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Absolutely you have to.
Really, the world is moving sofast that you really have to
have the ability to predict thefuture, Because if you don't,
you slow down, you stop.
In order for you to moveforward, you have to see what is
ahead of you.
So you really have to move andthat requires constant education
, constant learning, constantbeing involved, and it's
essential to do that.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So, in the PhD for creativity, what are some of the
things that people are givingyou feedback on with?
Speaker 3 (37:48):
it.
Well, actually, let me tell you, the PhD in creativity came
from University of Arts inPhiladelphia.
When they went belly up, yes,we adopted them.
So we brought the twoprofessors and the five students
who were in the program alreadyand they were finished and they
graduated.
This is the first year, that'sgreat.
Basically, it's the idea ofagain creativity in all facets
(38:09):
of life, the way that I dothings.
In order to be creative, Ialways try to imagine the
unimaginable.
I go above and beyond what iscrazy.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Do you get those ideas a lot while you're growing
peppers?
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Being out in nature and doing something different.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
No, I was also a runner.
I was a marathoner.
I ran many marathons.
I used to really solve a lot ofmy problems during running.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
yes, when you are on your own and you're focusing, a
lot of great things happen.
Human mind is amazing when yougive it a chance.
Yeah, it is true, I thinkyou've given us a lot of very
hopeful, a lot of tips on how tolive our lives and a lot of
good hope for presidents ofuniversities like you that are
(38:52):
really, you know, thinking aboutthe tangible student and where,
how you can help them go outinto the world and succeed.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
That's our role, that's our job, though If we
don't in fact, if we don't dothat, in my opinion we have
failed.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Right.
I feel like there is this,though perception of many
university leaders of them notbeing, though perception of many
university leaders of them notbeing transformational leaders.
And, speaking to you, it's abreath of fresh air, but it's
also nice to see that you reallyare, and have been thinking
this way for Rowan.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
A long time yet.
Yeah, for a long time.
Higher education is veryresistant to change.
If you ask 10 professors howmany of you does it take to
change a light bulb, they say ohmy God change.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
But you have to now.
If you don't, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
The reason that we are successful in here is the
concept of openness andtransparency and honesty.
People cannot be fooled and youshould never look at any
individual less than purely adignified human being.
You've got to have thatattitude.
We have 22 unions in thisuniversity.
We don't have a single- 22.
We don't have a single unionproblem.
They come in here whatever theyask.
(40:01):
I give them the truth always.
We put our budget online foreverybody to see so you can see
the university finances yourself.
You can see what president doesor where he goes.
I think honesty is veryimportant today.
If you are that, then peoplecome along, Because, at the end
of the day, every human beingwants to have a dignified life
and wants to have a life withpurpose, and I really believe
the reason that this place issuccessful is exactly that.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I became us.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
That's the key.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
You've got to become us.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Because if you keep everybody inside the tent, those
who are outside will not peeall over the tent.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Well, I completely agree with that.
I heard something once it'slike people, when they get into
power, they really showthemselves.
You know who they really are,and I think that what you
demonstrated because you've beenin power longer than most
presidents of universities Ithink that— I'm the oldest in
New Jersey, actually right now.
Is that right?
The oldest president of auniversity?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
or the longest, the number of years.
I think the number of yearsyeah yeah, and oldest maybe too.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
I don't think you're the oldest, but I think you
might be the longest.
So it seems that you definitelyhave kept this us and we theory
working.
Rowan is just growing andgrowing.
I mean, we saw the rankings.
Whether they are truthful ornot, as we hear that US World,
whatever news and report, issometimes questionable, but
yours do seem to be going up andup and up.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
I mean, we have many universities right now have
enrollment problems.
We have the reverse ofenrollment problems.
Our challenge for next yearactually is how do we have
enough dorm room for ourstudents?
We have to triple some kids.
That makes volume about thequality of the institution, the
safety of the campus, the beautyof the campus, because at the
end of the day, you've got tocreate home away from home for
these kids.
These are the kids who haveleft the home for the first time
(41:46):
.
They were fed, their clotheswere washed, the bed was made,
all of these things.
Suddenly, all of it is gone andthey're going to do it
themselves and it's a shock.
People don't realize that.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Honestly, that's a very good point because I think
that gets overlooked when allthese kids freshmen go to
college campuses all over, andthen a lot of them are not
prepared at all for that.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
No, it's like a military camp.
It's difficult because thinkabout the kid who has been in a
very protective environment in arural area.
Suddenly you come to thisuniversity where everybody
speaks different language, theylook differently and there is a
competition and everybody wantsto get ahead of you.
It's overwhelming.
You know, you've gone from highschool where you have seen the
same kid for the past 12 yearsand you're very close and
(42:27):
suddenly all of it is gone and awhole new group of people,
vastly different in their look,in their accent, in their way,
and that's a challenge.
And then you have to balanceyour own budget, get up early in
the morning, make sure thatyour time is all of these things
you have to do.
So have some sympathy for ourkids.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
For sure, for sure, we do have a lot of sympathy.
Well, because we're goingthrough it with our own kids.
We are.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
We are Well, it's such a fascinating story that
you have, from your humblebeginnings in Iran to being the
leader of a university that'sjust growing and taking care of
all of our children, you know,and helping them navigate this
world.
It's been an honor to speakwith you, thank you.
Thank you for all that you do.
We do close out our interviewswith a question, and the
(43:13):
question is is there somethingthat stands out to you that you
do?
We do close out our interviewswith a question, and the
question is is there somethingthat stands out to you that you
really love about New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Jersey tomato.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
The Jersey tomato that is so perfect.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
I grow a lot of them and if you give me your address,
I'll send you some hot sauceand tomato.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
We will then Not only .
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Come in actually pick your own.
You could come with a truck,fill it up and take it there and
give it to the churches aroundyour home.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I love that.
That's a great idea.
That would be great, jeanette,let's do that Road trip.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Road trip.
Come and see Rowan.
Yes, if you want your kids here, come and see the campus.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
It's a beautiful campus.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
It really is very nice.
I feel very good about thisthing because people's kids are
safe.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Well, you know I wanted to.
I was telling Rachel I don'tknow whether I should say it or
not and full disclosure my sonpicked Rowan.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
That's great.
I'm glad to hear that I'm goingto see more of you, hopefully.
What major does he want to do?
What major?
Speaker 1 (44:08):
What is his major?
He doesn't a no yet, I thinkit's going to be.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
The thing is it's not sure.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, it's good to explore, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's really 40, more than 40% or close to 50% of our
students.
When they come in they'reexploring.
They don't know what they wantto do.
Yeah, I myself went throughthree major changes.
I was electrical engineering,computer engineering, then
mathematics and then industrialengineering.
So let them explore, let themfind their own ways, and it's
the best way because at the endof the day, they don't get to
(44:35):
blame you for it to eat it.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I think that is super important advice and I try to
give that to as many friends asI can is do not push your kids
into a major.
You will regret it, they willbe angry with you and they can
hold it over your head the restof your life and it's not worth
it.
No, it wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Let them make their own decisions and all you need
to do is stay in contact and ifthey don't respond to you, they
don't come and visit.
Write them a nice letter Hi,son, I love you.
I love that you're so friendlywith your new girlfriend, that
the classes are good.
Oh, by the way, here is $200money.
Why don't you go to dinner withyour girlfriend?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
And then don't put the the money in there, he will
call you.
I love that.
Well, thank you, dr Houshman,for coming on Lost in Jersey.
It's been a pleasure to meetyou and I'm just grateful that
my son will be going to thisschool.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
I'm so glad that she is and I look forward to seeing
you.
Thank you for the interview.
It was wonderful speaking withboth of you.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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