October 14, 2025 • 39 mins
What if the moment that nearly ended your life became the one that finally made sense of it? Veteran CBS reporter Jim Axelrod joins us for a raw, free-flowing conversation that moves from Iraq’s war zones to quiet moments with Bruce Springsteen. He reflects on how growing up in New Jersey—and summers working the Shore—taught him the art of connection. This one’s about resilience, reflection, and the question that keeps him grounded: Why are you doing what you’re doing?
In the Long Run, A Father, a Son, and Unintentional Lessons in Happiness by Jim Axelrod
Harvey Cedars Shellfish Company
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:04):
We'll go ahead and start and by welcoming you, Jim.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Thank you for having me.
It's wonderful to chat.
SPEAKER_03 (00:10):
I know you from the neighborhood.
From the bus stop.
From the bus stop.
Years ago.
I remember meeting you andChristina years ago at the bus
stop, and I just adored both ofyou.
And I remember my husband camehome one day and he was like,
You really see the skill of areporter.
Like he just pulled it all outof me in like two minutes at the
bus stop.
(00:31):
I was like telling him all mylife story.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
You know what that always does?
That prevents me from having toshare mine.
It's much easier to ask otherpeople.
It's a arm's length defensemechanism.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
My therapist friends have the same mechanism.
You ask them how they're doing,and somehow you realize an hour
later you've just told themeverything about how you're
doing.
And you're like, wait, theydidn't answer the question.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
Yeah.
I've actually had people say tome, like, we're not going to be
able to have uh mutuality interms of relationship unless you
stop asking questions and startanswering some.
Although what happens if you'rejust really interested in
people?
Like that's that's the otherthing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
I agree.
We're very interested in people,so we end up doing that too.
I'm wanting to hear everything.
SPEAKER_03 (01:14):
I bumped into you recently and asked you to come
on because you told me you werefrom Jersey.
And we want to hear yourbackstory.
Everybody knows you becauseyou've been on television,
you've been a reporter for Idon't I don't know how many
years now, but how long have youbeen at CBS News?
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
I am in my 30th year at CBS News, right?
So like you didn't think theywere hiring five-year-olds, did
you?
I didn't.
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
That's right.
But I'm so glad you were thefirst.
We'd like to know your prodigystory.
Tell us about when you startedreporting at five.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
So actually, I am in my 30th year, but I was 32 when
they hired me.
So it's been a wonderful,wonderful way to make a living
for any number of years.
It's funny, the Jersey thing,and this is why I was like, I
mean, let's be honest.
You didn't ask me, I begged you.
I please beyond.
Because I I mean uh I could talkabout New Jersey all day long.
(02:05):
It's it's sort of formative andit's I feel like you get some
stuff in life, you don't getothers, right?
We all have this sort of thisasset liability balance sheet we
all walk around with in ourheads.
And for me, being born, raised,and now living most of my life
in New Jersey is a huge checkmark in the asset column.
I just love everything aboutthis state and the state of mind
(02:27):
that is required for people wholive here.
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_03 (02:30):
Well, what do you think, having grown up here,
what is the state of mind thatyou think that you cultivated
here?
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
You know, it's funny.
I think everything that I've runinto in life, both personally
and professionally, obviously Iran into first in New Jersey.
I mean, in terms of the kinds ofpeople I grew up in a small
town, Highland Park, which isright next to New Brunswick, the
Rutgers campus, 15,000 people,um, broad range of socioeconomic
(02:55):
backgrounds, race, religion.
It was the ultimate mini meltingpot.
It was a fabulous place to growup.
It was a great time, late 70s,early 80s, but it allowed me to
develop a foundation of how togo out in the world.
There wasn't anyone I wasn'tgoing to be able to talk to.
This was a town of 15,000, as Isay, but you know, a Nobel Prize
(03:18):
winner, Arnold Penzius, was inHyla Park.
I went to school with his kids.
There were people who rememberWillie Garson from Sex in the
City, um who sadly died a fewyears ago, was a good friend of
mine growing up.
There were, even in this smalltown, you began to understand if
you want to go out and achievein the world.
I mean, in my small town of 141,we're in my graduating class,
(03:40):
and I think we had uh Harvardand Yale and a couple to
Princeton, and you begin tounderstand what it require what
is required.
I waited tables for 10 summersat the Harvey Cedar Shellfish
Company on Long Beach Island.
There's a picture somewhere onthe wall there with this big
jufro.
But I learned more skillstalking to people on the Jersey
(04:01):
Shore, getting them lobster andcrab cakes that I use every day
as a journalist than I learnedanywhere else.
Certainly better than I learnedeither as an undergraduate or a
graduate student.
So New Jersey to me allows youto have the most solid
foundation, understanding therest of the world.
(04:22):
If you can grow up, thrive, andlove the people you meet here,
this broad range of people fromevery walk of life, then like
you're gonna kind of be set uppretty well to go out into the
world.
SPEAKER_03 (04:34):
Yeah, I agree.
So I want to ask you, I know I Iread some of your book, and it's
a lot about your father andabout your career.
By the way, it's brilliantlywritten and it's immediately
you're engaged.
I mean, it's like I feel like Iknow you uh a more in just 25
pages.
You talk about your fatherrunning marathons at 46 years
(04:55):
old, who subsequently passed uhat 63.
He was a go-getter.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
Yeah, and he was a New Jersey.
Sometimes if you're drivingaround New Jersey and you see
the Levinson Axlod signs there.
I always joke.
My dad's law firm, it feels likeif you don't mow the lawn in
certain places, one will pop upand an office will pop up.
So there's their Levinson Axlotis all around the state, and he
was a wonderful personal injurylitigator who people would have
(05:19):
their one day in court to pleadthe case of being sort of run
into some kind of injury or orinjustice or malpractice or
something, and he was the guyyou wanted making your case for
you.
He was a Jersey guy.
Like there are these things, youknow, it it it's an interesting
point.
You were I didn't realize youwere from Texas, Jennifer.
Where where, by the way, wherein Texas?
SPEAKER_03 (05:39):
Uh Lubbock, Texas is where I grew up.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Let me just say this.
I grew up in Highland Park, NewJersey.
I then went to Ithaca, New York.
I then went to New Orleans,Louisiana.
I then went to Philadelphia,Pennsylvania.
I then went to Providence, RhodeIsland.
I then went to Bangor, Maine.
I then went to Utica, New York.
I then went to Syracuse, NewYork.
I then went to Raleigh, NorthCarolina, I then went to Miami,
(06:02):
Florida.
I then went to Dallas, Texas.
All of it was designed to getback to New Jersey.
All of it was designed.
And when we had to leave herefor three years and go to
Washington when I was coveringthe last three years of the Bush
White House, I couldn't wait toget back.
Like, by the way, there arepeople who feel about I remember
when I was covering the BushWhite House, it was full of
(06:23):
Texans.
And there were people there whocouldn't wait to get back to
Texas.
I get it.
We are all a product of our homestate.
Yeah, sometimes you're runningfrom it, and sometimes you're
running to it.
I just consider it a blessingthat I wanted to run back to it.
SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
Yeah.
So when did the transition orthe actually start to become a
reporter part happen in yourlife?
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Aaron Powell I made more money as a 15-year-old on
the Jersey Shore.
I don't think I made as muchuntil I was 29.
Like we were making a lot ofcash and we weren't paying any
taxes.
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
I was a waitress in Long Island too, and I know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:01):
No.
And then you get out in theworld, you're like, well, first
of all, with a degree?
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
So I I I graduated college.
Uh I'd gone to Cornell.
I was 22 chronologically.
I was about 15 and a halfdevelopmentally.
Aaron Powell That's fine.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
We've heard that about boys.
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
Yeah.
Oh.
I didn't know what I wanted todo, and I just thought it would
be a sort of a somewhatproductive way to let the dust
settle to teach.
Um I went to New Orleans andtaught school there for a couple
of years at a great independentschool, Country Day School in in
Metary.
And then I went to um uhPhiladelphia, did the same
thing, Chestnut Hill Academy,for a year.
(07:40):
Then I went to grad school.
I thought I was going to be ahistory professor.
So I went to Brown, I was in aPhD history program, and I was
awful.
Like I was a terrible gradstudent.
I just thought it was one thing.
I thought you would like readinteresting books for a living,
and it wasn't.
But thank God I went therebecause I met my wife,
Christina, who actually did havethe requisite brain power and
(08:04):
intellectual capability to dothat kind of work.
So she hung around and I tookoff and started this
broadcasting thing.
And eventually, you know, weended up sort of realizing that
if we were going to start afamily and make it all happen,
we had to be in the same place.
She came to Syracuse where whereI was working at that point.
In the old days, I'm gonna soundlike a 97-year-old man howling
(08:24):
at the moment.
Back in the day.
Back in the old days, you usedto have to sort of, it was like
playing minor league baseball toget to a network news operation.
And you would work through theseseries of local television
stations, which I did andlearned a lot and met some
wonderful people.
And then CBS hired me uh in1996.
SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
So in New York City.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
I started in Miami.
They uh also had a lot biggerfootprint.
Back then they had bureaus.
I went to the Miami and then Iwent to Dallas, came to New
York, started to do someoverseas coverage, went to the
White House.
I was in Afghanistan, Iraq,various places while I was sort
of sort of gaining my experienceand learning how to do this
business.
And it was just an amazing,fantastic, wonderful run.
SPEAKER_03 (09:09):
Well, can we ask you a cut to tell a couple of
stories, some little moments?
Like one that we all know of isthat you were there when the
Iraq war broke out.
SPEAKER_00 (09:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:20):
Can you tell us you were embedded with the U.S.
SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
Marines, right?
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
I was with the with the uh 1st Brigade of the 3rd
Infantry Division of the UnitedStates Army.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
And it was you know, I grew up in a time New Jersey
in the 70s.
It's not like we had a lot ofparents running off to do
reserve duty.
I didn't know anything about themilitary, and watching the men
and women of the uh 3rd Infantryprosecute the war was just an
eye-opener, incrediblyimpressive.
I've often said if I wasstarting a business like find me
a bunch of veterans, they wereit was just an unbelievable
(09:52):
experience to live through.
I also, though, don't come froma long line of brave people.
And it was petrifying as well.
I write about this in in thatbook.
In the long run, I had a very,very close call on uh the bridge
over the Euphrates River.
And it took me years to come togrips with all of the emotional
fallout of having trauma.
(10:12):
My my wife.
Yeah, I guess I haven'tcompletely gotten through it,
and which is okay.
Like I think it's important inlife to have experiences that
you feel deeply for years after.
But you know, my wife was sevenmonths pregnant with my little
guy who's now 22.
And um uh I, you know, I couldhave left them alone and I think
about that, and that createdtremendous guilt for me on the
(10:34):
other side of like, what are youdoing?
And sort of launched a littlebit of understanding, needing to
understand why you're doing whatyou're doing, which I think is a
critically important and oftenoverlooked life skill.
Like, why are you doing whatyou're doing?
Every time I've run into eithermy own issue or have tried to
listen to friends and family andpeople I love help them through
(10:56):
something, it's amazing to mehow often people cannot explain
why they're doing what they'redoing.
For me, the seminal moment of ofthat understanding was almost
dying on this bridge.
SPEAKER_02 (11:06):
I'm grateful for you to talk about it.
And it is so important for us tohear that as humans and also to
ask, remind our kids as well.
You know, they watch us and theywatch us get stressed about work
and stressed about all thethings and why are you stressed?
And to be able to hear you putit so succinctly is pretty
(11:27):
eye-opening.
I want to talk to the kidsabout, you know, just make sure
you reassess on a frequentbasis.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Always.
Always.
And, you know, you you forget,right?
Like it's such an odd thing tostart looking at you realize
you're at a point in life where,say, I'm 62 years old.
That was my grandparents, right?
Like I'm thinking a lot andreally starting to wonder if
there's not something to diveinto here about what you have
left.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
Aaron Powell It depends on what your purpose,
what you feel your purpose is todo in that time, right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
But that requires, Jeanette, that requires clarity.
Yeah.
That is you must do the work tohave clarity of thought so that
you understand for you and foryour family, and for your family
what is important, what's worthgetting on that bridge for.
That's that's the metaphor forme.
There's that quote, I think it'sKierkegaard who said, you live
your life going forward, youunderstand it looking backward.
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
Backward.
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Somehow you can't wait to look backward to
understand things.
You have to do the work as youare heading forward so that you
can, for instance, Rachel, asyou said, you can counsel your
kids, you know, to the extentthat they're listening.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
I mean, right.
I I should have put that in.
They might not listen at thismoment.
You can edit that and then laterthey can think about it.
SPEAKER_03 (12:38):
Yeah.
Well, well, you know, you write,and I know that you've been open
about you've had a lot ofambition and a lot of drive, and
you've also reflected andregretted, you write about it in
your book about Christina, andyou're, you know, looking back
and feeling that you might havenot been there during as you
even mentioned in thatparticular instance, but
throughout your whole career.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
And trying to understand, and you even put,
and I thought was so great asone of your um your quotes that
you had put in from a fortunecookie, which I love because my
husband's obsessed with fortunecookies and I'm not.
Is it all men should try tolearn before they die what they
are running from and to and why?
Yes.
I feel that you have come to aplace that you have reflected
(13:20):
and figured out what would madeyou go under that bridge and why
you return.
Because you have.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
That's a wonderful question.
And I think it's an importantthing to talk about.
So what's your ambition?
Ambition's great, but what's itin service to?
That becomes what sets thetrajectory of your life, right?
Like, what is the ambition inservice to?
Is it becoming the best partneror parent or friend, son?
What are you putting all of thatdesire in service to achieving?
(13:48):
Very important question.
I don't think any of this getsdone without doing a lot of
work, right?
Like you very uncomfortable.
I just was doing an interviewactually last Sunday with Ben
Stiller, who's got this greatdocumentary coming out about his
parents.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Not his parents, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
But about a lot more.
It's about him and it's abouthis failures as a father along
the way.
And so we were having thisreally great conversation about
what you are their ambition byitself is fine.
You'll see if you watch thisdocumentary uh on Apple, which
drops, I think, in a week or so.
Like the mirror is a veryuncomfortable place to stand,
(14:27):
especially when your childrenare holding it up, right?
Like that's just, you know, butbut that's the only way you're
gonna get to where you want inany relationship with your kids.
Like, you gotta go to themirror.
I don't know any other wayaround it.
Like, you got to spend some timeand not looking to see like if
your tie knot's done correctly.
SPEAKER_02 (14:45):
Like, you gotta spend some time in the mirror
and do the assessment is alsohas to be, you have to reassess
all the time because yourambition and the why is gonna
change through each life phase.
So before you're married, yourambition has a specific goal.
Then you are in a relationship,it changes.
Then you have kids, it changes.
(15:06):
So I think that if we couldunderstand more as people that
it's fluid and you're not stuckto the one dream you or ambition
you had when you were expectinga few years.
SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
In fact, maybe the best ambition you have is to be
flexible and to evolve.
I have these Jersey buddies fromfifth grade, like best pals in
the world, love these guys.
We've been friends now, in somecases, for more than 50 years,
and we still get together.
And one of the amazing thingsabout it is everything's rooted
(15:38):
in, you know, 10-year-old boyhumors, you know, but there's
also these 62-year-old men andand able to compare notes on the
journeys everybody has taken.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
That uh that's the richest part, right?
Is that everyone's taken ajourney and we've all been there
sort of for each other throughparts and chapters of those
journeys.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_03 (16:00):
Some of the chapters in your life I find interesting
is that I know as we're talkingabout ambition and your drive,
one of the things is craftingyour craft.
I feel like that's part of yourambition and your and your
purpose is to get really good atwhat you do and for others to
recognize it, which we all knowprobably has some parent complex
going on there that we're tryingto please our parents in some
(16:21):
way.
We got that.
And of course, your dad, youwrote a book about your dad, for
God's sakes, being, you know,I'm assuming.
She hasn't written that book yetbecause it's coming.
But so we know that there's anambitious drive for you.
But what I really uh fascinatedabout you is your um candidness
about your struggle in in theindustry itself, working and not
(16:43):
being recognized, or even theone line that you craft so hard
to just say one line perfectlyand hoping that everyone, you
know, is like, hey, wow.
That was but it's really turnsout to be your own self.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
Yeah, I know.
But the person that the otherthe person in the living room
watching probably got up to geta coke at that moment.
But that this again isevolutionary.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
But that's a good life lesson.
SPEAKER_00 (17:07):
And and why you're writing and who you're writing
for and what your purpose is.
Again, like if you are simplytrying to get good at what you
do so that it somehow translatesto some kind of external
validation, you're done.
Like you're you're running downthe wrong road.
If you're trying to get betterat a skill because somehow it
(17:28):
increases your capacity toconnect to people and elevate
the quality of your life, allright, now we can talk, right?
Now but we live in a time thatis so money obsessed and so
reward obsessed.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
And I just it's all about external validation.
Ooh, the whole thing.
Either with money or likes orclicks or whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
This thing this phone that we all like are
connected to because thevalidation is literally it's the
craziest word in the world,likes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:57):
You're looking to be the head of a your own cult of
you.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
And no, also, here's I'm gonna be the advocate.
The devil made the contrary.
No, no, not necessarilycontrarian.
I'm just saying that it's ournew economy.
Yeah, you know, there's not alot.
That is the shift in how we'remaking our livings now, a living
now.
And if you can't monetize theseskills, you really can't pay the
(18:23):
rent anymore.
I mean, because there's notanother job out there.
This is where the this isadvertising now, this is where
people are getting their healthinformation out, this is where
it's all coming through thisnow.
And it's strange to say that thelikes are are are the monetary.
The currency.
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
The currency.
Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
And so it's I want to get good at what I do so that
somebody will hire me so I canmake money, so I can, you know,
put money in my coll my kids'college fund, put money, you
know.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
Let me throw out a Jersey pushback to what you're
saying.
And I can't believe I get todrop Springsteen into this, but
I do.
So people ask me all the time,what's the who's the best
interview you've ever done, orwhat's the coolest experience
you've ever had?
And there's a lot, and they'renot all Jersey based, but I must
say I had this amazingconversation with Bruce
(19:13):
Springsteen uh a couple yearsago.
I saw it.
And it was about despair and itwas about depression, and it was
about the lowest moment of hislife and what that helped him
create, which is, I think hefeels the highest form.
It's it's the basis of theWarren Zayn's book, and it's the
basis of this movie that'sthat's coming out now.
(19:35):
And by the way, not for nothing,but we only got there into a
space where he was able to gothere because it really was two
Jersey guys sitting down talkingabout like before the camera
turned on.
I was asking him about the Fordfactory on Route One in Edison
where his dad worked, and youknow, Delicious Orchards and
Colt's neck.
There was some Jerseycredibility established.
(19:56):
And then he wanted to talk aboutdespair.
This had nothing to do withlikes, with clicks, with
follows.
I'm sure it had, I don't knowthe answers.
I have no idea how many.
Sometimes someone will send me aTikTok and an excerpt from that
interview is on TikTok and wooyeah.
The value, the beauty of thatmoment was something that is as
(20:18):
old as as people in caves andcampfires.
It was the connection betweentwo people and the admission of
the struggle involved in life.
And so among the many things I Idon't like about our world, and
I constantly am saying to mykids, I'm sorry that this is
what we're leaving you, is thisartifice of what connection is.
(20:38):
This stuff where people connectfrom their isolation and blob,
you know, something that passesfor real connection.
The reason was not that I wassitting with with him, but I was
hearing the most honestarticulation of the valley that
all of us walk through at somepart in our life.
And because someone may havebeen on the other end of a
(20:59):
television screen or a phone onTikTok, they were hearing there
was something about hearingsomebody of that stature say,
Yeah, no, most human thingavailable and possible is
struggle.
That I feel like now that is acraft worth pursuing, that you
can bring that story to acritical mass of people who may
(21:21):
be sitting there in their ownpain and say, Okay, I'm not
alone.
SPEAKER_03 (21:25):
Well, I would say, Rachel, we can say that that's
our been our mission plan aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
Exactly.
That has been our mission forLost in Jersey, and we're doing
such a great job that we aren'tmaking any money.
I mean, I'm we have nailed whatyou want.
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
It will happen.
You guys, you guys really it'sfine.
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
It's fine.
It doesn't bother us.
It's really fine.
SPEAKER_03 (21:45):
Yeah, but just to the point, this is true, is that
we, I mean, and I think it'salso part of, you know, been my
my career history as well, isthat we don't really want to get
into the money part of itbecause we get to say whatever
we want to say, we get to telland also whoever we want to talk
to.
We talk to tell people that whenyou're our age, you've gone
(22:07):
through some shit.
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (22:09):
A question about the whole change in atmosphere with
not just news but also socialmedia and what's getting money
behind it and clicks.
I can't not ask.
But you know, the Barry Weiss,free press, CBS News, are you
allowed to express your opinionon what you think that means?
SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
I I think change is good.
And one thing that I think isindisputable is, you know,
clearly she has a mastery ofpresenting news that is
consequential, that newsmakersread.
I mean, she's done this amazingthing with the with this media
outlet.
And so it there's an energy, afreshness, an understanding of
maybe uh the new way to be ableto communicate the reporting
(22:51):
that's done.
So I have no issue.
Now we're talking here earlydays, and let's see what
unfolds.
But from my perspective, I'vebeen watching the erosion of the
network news business steadilyfor 30 years.
Let me just make sure everybodyunderstands something.
Walter Cronkite in 1967-68, thecountry was 200 million people,
(23:12):
much smaller.
He had 18 million peoplewatching every night.
And Huntley and Brinkley, theNBC Nightly News, had another 17
million.
35 million Americans out of 200million were watching the
evening news broadcasts everynight.
Now, I don't know, you don'thave the three adding up to just
what Walter had, not even close,right?
(23:33):
And it's a a business that hasbeen in decline, not because
anybody was doing anythingwrong, although we could have
another conversation about that.
But again, just because of this,everybody's reading the news all
day.
And so it's a differentenvironment, a different
reality, a different revenuestructure.
And here comes somebody who'shad a lot of success and
understands it and now wants toapply what it is she knows to
(23:56):
this place.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
Aaron Powell What do you think the evening news or
the network news is supposed tobe?
Like what is it for?
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Aaron Ross Powell I think it's a a digest of what
has happened, but in many caseswhat hasn't been figured out yet
is what if somebody has anunderstanding already because
they've been checking theirphone 12 times?
Nobody's coming in when I saynobody.
Far fewer people are sittingdown at 6 30.
What is the evening news in myview?
It's supposed to tell us alittle bit.
(24:25):
I mean, I'm I sort of overseethis part of the evening news
every night called I in America,which is supposed to tell us
about us.
Who are we?
What are the trends shaping ourculture?
What are the problems?
What are the solutions?
This sense of who are we?
Like, I love that as part of theevening news.
I do think there should be adigest.
What are the most importantthings?
If you haven't, like have any ifyou haven't checked your phone,
(24:46):
what's happened today?
Okay, it's like a beautifullittle constellation and
distillation.
But because you can also say atsay the end of the first block,
hey, a lot more happened than wehave time for.
Go to cbsnews.com.
We have it all there for you.
I think there needs to be a bitmore better job of integration
between what we're putting onthe television at 6 30 and then
(25:08):
as an entree into some otherplatform where you can then get
the rest of the stuff and morein-depth and all of those
things.
So to me, it's just a questionof matching the work that a lot
of very talented people do atCBS and other places and making
sure that that's delivered andpresented in an accessible way
on a number of platforms wherepeople actually are.
(25:30):
I I think people want a sense ofbalance.
There's a wide range of mediaoutlets where you can go.
So if you want to just sort ofreaffirm what it is you believe,
then you there's plenty ofplaces for you to go, whatever
part of the political spectrumwherever you're located.
I happen not to think politicsand the political lens and the
(25:51):
political spectrum is the onlyplace and only way people
perceive the world.
I'll give you a perfect example.
I was in North Korea.
North Korea, about the the mostmost incredibly different
culture you could possibly bein.
And I was sitting there and theplace is like bizarro land in so
many different ways.
But I watched all of a sudden amother and her son walk down the
(26:15):
street and the kid was holdingan ice cream cone, licking the
ice cream cone and holding themother's hand.
And I could have been inHighland Park, New Jersey.
And I thought to myself, nowthat is a universal.
If I was sitting in Milwaukeeand I was in a park and I saw
the mother and the son walkingdown the street, and the son had
(26:36):
an ice cream cone and washolding the mother's hand, do
you think I'd say, geez, Iwonder if she's conservative?
I wonder if she's a liberal.
I wonder if she voted forHillary.
Did she vote for Trump?
No.
I would marvel in the same thinghappening in Milwaukee that was
happening in Pyongyang and howbeautiful that is as human
beings, that we have thoseuniversals.
So I happen not to believe thateverybody's constantly
(26:59):
perceiving the world through thelens of who did you vote for?
Or what do you think of this orthat or the other policy?
So you're an optimist.
I I have a glass, as my daughteronce said when I was lecturing
her, that we as Axelrods haveglasses that are half full.
And she said, What if your glassis half full of a liquid you
don't like?
She was seven.
(27:21):
So yes, I'm an optimist.
But I also you we're I'm I'mthrowing this out in terms of
what is our news.
I think we have an obligation asjournalists.
Yes, you must note what ishappening and you must have some
historical context where you canplace that and you need to be
able to tell people what it is.
You know, it's it's kind of abasic like first-year journalism
(27:44):
school idea.
But if if somebody says it'sraining, your job isn't to then
say, Joe said it's raining,Susie said it's not.
Your job is to open up thewindow, stick your head out, and
see if you get wet.
That's your job as a journalist.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
And I feel that that's I mean, I think a lot of
people feel that that's what'smissing in a lot of what we're
reading and seeing.
So I mean, I do think there's anopportunity for CBS News for
sure.
SPEAKER_03 (28:10):
I mean, I think that you bring up a good uh example
about putting your head out thewindow and raining, but the I
think I would like to talk alittle bit about the truth of
the reporting because things areedited down and you know, and
then also the amount of makingsure that the story is true.
Like, yes, it's raining outside,but yes, there's a guy with a
water hose that actually waspouring the water.
(28:32):
So have you had a situationwhere you believed in a story
and then you found out that itwas actually not correct?
You know, and then you may havehad like an existential crisis
about what is the truth inreporting, for example.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
I mean, I've definitely had stories where I
engaged in sort of theunderlying principles of
journalism and found out that itwas something other than I had
been told it might be.
And if you're doing your jobcorrectly and properly, that's
like the point of it, is to tovet, to get more than one
source, to run it by experts.
(29:06):
Like I happen to believewhatever moment we're in, the
one thing that we need more thananything else is experienced,
credible people saying, look,this is what I saw and heard.
If you don't want to believe it,there's nothing I can do about
that.
But I'll give you a perfectexample.
You know, when there was an IRSagent named Gary Shapley who
(29:28):
said that the Justice Departmentwas going easy on Hunter Biden,
okay, you can imagine how thisthing neatly divided
politically.
I did the interview, the firstinterview with Gary Shapley.
You know what?
Entirely credible guy.
You know what the CBS EveningNews did?
We put on a three minuteinterview with Gary Shapley.
Now, I laugh sometimes whenpeople are like, oh, Liberal
(29:49):
News Network.
Like nobody told me how tohandle that interview, and I was
able to do that.
So I only throw that out to saythere is real reporting still.
Being done and everything breaksinto are you on the Mets or the
Yankees?
Do you drink Coke or Pepsi?
And life is gray.
It's there's nuance.
It's literally in the middle.
(30:11):
And I don't believe there's amoment in, you know, things
evolve in history.
So I'm not sure the pendulum, Idon't know where it is.
I don't know when's it swingingback.
SPEAKER_02 (30:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
I'll I'll be honest with you guys.
Aaron Powell Having been on allparts of this, it's easier to
interview Ben Stiller and BruceSpringsteen about issues of the
soul and the heart.
It's not just safer, but it'slike to me, it coheres and
aligns with these other issuesthat we're talking about, which
is like life and walks throughvalleys and evolution of souls.
(30:42):
And at the end of all of it,when we all get to our ends, do
you really think like in thatmontage of images we all have
about our life at the end isgoing to be some argument you
had with some cousin atThanksgiving about politics?
It's not.
It's going to be holding holdingyour kid's hand at the bus stop.
That's what it's about.
(31:03):
And so the journalism I can doat this point in my life, at
this point in my career, that isabout those things, that's where
I want to spend my time.
SPEAKER_03 (31:11):
And you do it very eloquently.
That's your why.
Yeah.
That's the why.
The journey that you've beengoing on, it does seem like you
did do all of those otherthings.
You know, you did, you coveredit.
There's no like looking back,like, what if I would have, what
if I also I also wasn't a Iwasn't a great White House
reporter.
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I wasn't.
I wasn't.
SPEAKER_03 (31:31):
Why do you say that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Because I just I know what good reporting is.
I know when I've done stuffwhere I'm like, that's what I'm
supposed to do.
Like, what were you supposed todo?
SPEAKER_03 (31:39):
What was that?
What is that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
That there is there are brilliant political
reporters.
Brilliant.
They have a capacity tounderstand policy, understand
politics, they're deeplysourced, well connected.
We need those people.
But I'd rather I'd ratherconnect with somebody over the
walk through the valley.
Like whether it's Springsteen orwhether it's someone you've
(32:01):
never heard of.
I would rather compare notesabout that.
We all have our naturalintentions and our natural
affinities.
And I'd rather do that workbecause I'm better at that.
This I love this last hour.
And thank you so much for this.
You guys are terrific.
But we're also talking aboutmeaningful, deep, meaningful
stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
Yes.
But that's it too, you know,with Rachel and I, because I
think that we having done this,it has been such a
soul-searching adventure for usas well.
Because you do start to seeother people's formats and other
people's, you know, maybegetting bigger or getting more
likes because they're more,they're more splashy.
(32:40):
They're more, they're moresomething.
But it you have to you have togo through that fire of like
admitting that that is not mything.
It's hard to face that and youyou have self-doubt and
self-criticism.
I think that's also what I loveabout what I've read in your
book is that you are, you, youreally are transparent about
that.
You have gone through those.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
I mean what uses.
What use is it if for otherpeople unless you're gonna be
honest, right?
Yeah, like what and we all,everyone, that this is the other
part of what you were sayingabout the world in which we
live.
People are trying to establishthemselves as brands.
Like what a load of horseshit.
Like brands, like again, themeaningful stuff that'll be with
(33:21):
us at the end of our lives, itwas not about connecting with a
brand.
It was about some conversationyou had with your best friend of
60 years about, you know, s somesome travail one of you or both
of you were having.
SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Oh my gosh, it's so true.
I mean, with Rachel and I, Ithink that we had we went to
have lunch with uh MichaelEuslin after our interview.
You know, he's the executiveproducer of all the Batman
films, right?
And we went to have lunch withhim.
He just invited us out.
We both got in the car and wewere like, that that just you
know That was worth it.
That made it everything.
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
We just had pizza with him at a great little pizza
place.
And we're in Cedar Grove.
SPEAKER_03 (33:59):
Where were we?
We were at Cedar Grove CedarGrove, a pizzeria.
What's that one?
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
Is that Lombardi's?
SPEAKER_03 (34:04):
Is that where you're we were we sat in Lombardi's?
It's really good pizza.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
Got the great sign, best signal.
SPEAKER_03 (34:10):
We should all we should go.
Let's this should be our newthing, Lombardi's lunch.
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Let's go.
Listen, I will I will say to youguys, like what you just
described and the feeling youhad in the car after that.
Yeah.
Like, that's why anybody shoulddo anything in life.
Yeah.
That chase that.
Use your ambition for that.
And everything else, in my mind,will take care of itself.
SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
You've had so many incredible life experiences.
It's great that you were alsoable to write a memoir to share
your own self-doubts and thenyour own self-reassessment.
And it's just refreshing to hearfrom people who are so
successful.
Regrets, guilt, but also a wayto turn things around and have
what you really want in life.
(34:53):
And then you get to treasurethat.
I didn't get to it yet.
Did you break the 330?
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
Did you Oh my God, I didn't come close.
Are you kidding me?
I was like an hour behind.
Which, by the way, was like alsopart of the takeaway.
Do you think?
And you'll get to the end of thebook.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:16):
And I crossed the line and I'm having a
conversation with my father, youknow, in my first of all, I'm
delirious.
So it was made it easier to havethe conversation.
But the quality of what I tookaway from the whole process from
beginning to end of being sortof grossly overweight and and
(35:37):
like having to run and get tothe finish line of the New York
City Marathon, where my friendwith ALS was, to the value of
that.
And that will be, by the way, inmy montage at the end of my
life.
No part of the value of thatexperience was degraded by the
fact that I finished an hourslower than my father.
(36:02):
In fact, of course I did.
SPEAKER_02 (36:04):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
Dad was a great runner, right?
I was not.
SPEAKER_02 (36:07):
But it wasn't your thing, yeah.
Who cares?
Who cares?
SPEAKER_00 (36:11):
Gives a shit.
SPEAKER_03 (36:12):
So you know what?
That's a better, you know,ending, honestly.
I think it has so much moreimpact.
And it's so it's such an emblemof your your life, too.
Like you said, I wasn't thegreatest white uh White House
correspondent.
You know, you've done it all.
You know, you've done it.
You did it as you did themarathon as well.
Yeah, and I'm not I'm notcarrying around any less and you
(36:33):
and you have, even though youmay have stumbled a few times
with Christina, I adore thatwoman.
I don't know her that well, butevery she knows it too, because
every time, every time I seeher, I'm like, I stop
everything.
I'm like, Christina, hey, howare you doing?
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (36:49):
No, you know what it is?
I'll tell you.
I'll answer the question beforewe go.
Because I tell my kids this allthe time about as they're
starting to partner with people.
Like everything else is sort ofup for grabs.
There's one non-negotiable.
Find someone kind.
Find kindness.
There's no kinder human beingwalking around Claire than my
wife.
SPEAKER_03 (37:09):
I believe you.
And I would be choking up too ifshe was a significant other.
But thank you so much forjoining us on Lost Turn Jersey.
I know we didn't hit do ourhard-hitting reporting like you
do.
And we have one really hardreporting question to ask you at
the very end that we askeveryone.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Go.
SPEAKER_03 (37:25):
Okay, Rachel, you want to do the honors?
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
Well, it's gonna be hard for you, but you're gonna
have to just give us one thing,your favorite thing that you
love about New Jersey.
It's gonna be tough.
What?
SPEAKER_03 (37:36):
Also, you if there's a restaurant that you really,
really feel at home at, there'sonly there's one place, the
Harvey Cedar Shellfish Company.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
Okay.
Harvey Cedars, New Jersey.
SPEAKER_03 (37:46):
Yeah, and the Michigan.
SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
On Long Beach Island, where where in 1978 you
could get a one-pound lobster,mussels, and an ear of corn for
$4.95.
SPEAKER_02 (37:59):
Whoa.
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
And and the Garafolo brothers have owned that place
now.
Uh I think they just had their50th anniversary celebration
last summer.
You wait in line.
There was uh there's a list, noreservations.
I'll put a link to it.
It's the best, and look on thewall, and you'll find the guy
with the enormous afro.
(38:20):
And it's just uh the best, bestseafood in New Jersey.
Can I just say one thing beforewe go?
SPEAKER_02 (38:27):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
Thank you.
This was so lovely, and I soappreciate conversations of
depth and meaning andauthenticity and intentional
intentionality.
So I love what you guys aredoing, but I'm honored that you
would think I would havesomething to say to you.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:47):
Thank you so much at you.
SPEAKER_03 (38:48):
Yes, we're honored that you came on, and we're
honored that you are honored.
Thanks, Jim.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,iTunes, and Buzz Sprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
We'll go ahead and start and by welcoming you, Jim.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Thank you for having me.
It's wonderful to chat.
SPEAKER_03 (00:10):
I know you from the neighborhood.
From the bus stop.
From the bus stop.
Years ago.
I remember meeting you andChristina years ago at the bus
stop, and I just adored both ofyou.
And I remember my husband camehome one day and he was like,
You really see the skill of areporter.
Like he just pulled it all outof me in like two minutes at the
bus stop.
(00:31):
I was like telling him all mylife story.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
You know what that always does?
That prevents me from having toshare mine.
It's much easier to ask otherpeople.
It's a arm's length defensemechanism.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
My therapist friends have the same mechanism.
You ask them how they're doing,and somehow you realize an hour
later you've just told themeverything about how you're
doing.
And you're like, wait, theydidn't answer the question.
SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
Yeah.
I've actually had people say tome, like, we're not going to be
able to have uh mutuality interms of relationship unless you
stop asking questions and startanswering some.
Although what happens if you'rejust really interested in
people?
Like that's that's the otherthing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
I agree.
We're very interested in people,so we end up doing that too.
I'm wanting to hear everything.
SPEAKER_03 (01:14):
I bumped into you recently and asked you to come
on because you told me you werefrom Jersey.
And we want to hear yourbackstory.
Everybody knows you becauseyou've been on television,
you've been a reporter for Idon't I don't know how many
years now, but how long have youbeen at CBS News?
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
I am in my 30th year at CBS News, right?
So like you didn't think theywere hiring five-year-olds, did
you?
I didn't.
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
That's right.
But I'm so glad you were thefirst.
We'd like to know your prodigystory.
Tell us about when you startedreporting at five.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
So actually, I am in my 30th year, but I was 32 when
they hired me.
So it's been a wonderful,wonderful way to make a living
for any number of years.
It's funny, the Jersey thing,and this is why I was like, I
mean, let's be honest.
You didn't ask me, I begged you.
I please beyond.
Because I I mean uh I could talkabout New Jersey all day long.
(02:05):
It's it's sort of formative andit's I feel like you get some
stuff in life, you don't getothers, right?
We all have this sort of thisasset liability balance sheet we
all walk around with in ourheads.
And for me, being born, raised,and now living most of my life
in New Jersey is a huge checkmark in the asset column.
I just love everything aboutthis state and the state of mind
(02:27):
that is required for people wholive here.
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_03 (02:30):
Well, what do you think, having grown up here,
what is the state of mind thatyou think that you cultivated
here?
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
You know, it's funny.
I think everything that I've runinto in life, both personally
and professionally, obviously Iran into first in New Jersey.
I mean, in terms of the kinds ofpeople I grew up in a small
town, Highland Park, which isright next to New Brunswick, the
Rutgers campus, 15,000 people,um, broad range of socioeconomic
(02:55):
backgrounds, race, religion.
It was the ultimate mini meltingpot.
It was a fabulous place to growup.
It was a great time, late 70s,early 80s, but it allowed me to
develop a foundation of how togo out in the world.
There wasn't anyone I wasn'tgoing to be able to talk to.
This was a town of 15,000, as Isay, but you know, a Nobel Prize
(03:18):
winner, Arnold Penzius, was inHyla Park.
I went to school with his kids.
There were people who rememberWillie Garson from Sex in the
City, um who sadly died a fewyears ago, was a good friend of
mine growing up.
There were, even in this smalltown, you began to understand if
you want to go out and achievein the world.
I mean, in my small town of 141,we're in my graduating class,
(03:40):
and I think we had uh Harvardand Yale and a couple to
Princeton, and you begin tounderstand what it require what
is required.
I waited tables for 10 summersat the Harvey Cedar Shellfish
Company on Long Beach Island.
There's a picture somewhere onthe wall there with this big
jufro.
But I learned more skillstalking to people on the Jersey
(04:01):
Shore, getting them lobster andcrab cakes that I use every day
as a journalist than I learnedanywhere else.
Certainly better than I learnedeither as an undergraduate or a
graduate student.
So New Jersey to me allows youto have the most solid
foundation, understanding therest of the world.
(04:22):
If you can grow up, thrive, andlove the people you meet here,
this broad range of people fromevery walk of life, then like
you're gonna kind of be set uppretty well to go out into the
world.
SPEAKER_03 (04:34):
Yeah, I agree.
So I want to ask you, I know I Iread some of your book, and it's
a lot about your father andabout your career.
By the way, it's brilliantlywritten and it's immediately
you're engaged.
I mean, it's like I feel like Iknow you uh a more in just 25
pages.
You talk about your fatherrunning marathons at 46 years
(04:55):
old, who subsequently passed uhat 63.
He was a go-getter.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
Yeah, and he was a New Jersey.
Sometimes if you're drivingaround New Jersey and you see
the Levinson Axlod signs there.
I always joke.
My dad's law firm, it feels likeif you don't mow the lawn in
certain places, one will pop upand an office will pop up.
So there's their Levinson Axlotis all around the state, and he
was a wonderful personal injurylitigator who people would have
(05:19):
their one day in court to pleadthe case of being sort of run
into some kind of injury or orinjustice or malpractice or
something, and he was the guyyou wanted making your case for
you.
He was a Jersey guy.
Like there are these things, youknow, it it it's an interesting
point.
You were I didn't realize youwere from Texas, Jennifer.
Where where, by the way, wherein Texas?
SPEAKER_03 (05:39):
Uh Lubbock, Texas is where I grew up.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Let me just say this.
I grew up in Highland Park, NewJersey.
I then went to Ithaca, New York.
I then went to New Orleans,Louisiana.
I then went to Philadelphia,Pennsylvania.
I then went to Providence, RhodeIsland.
I then went to Bangor, Maine.
I then went to Utica, New York.
I then went to Syracuse, NewYork.
I then went to Raleigh, NorthCarolina, I then went to Miami,
(06:02):
Florida.
I then went to Dallas, Texas.
All of it was designed to getback to New Jersey.
All of it was designed.
And when we had to leave herefor three years and go to
Washington when I was coveringthe last three years of the Bush
White House, I couldn't wait toget back.
Like, by the way, there arepeople who feel about I remember
when I was covering the BushWhite House, it was full of
(06:23):
Texans.
And there were people there whocouldn't wait to get back to
Texas.
I get it.
We are all a product of our homestate.
Yeah, sometimes you're runningfrom it, and sometimes you're
running to it.
I just consider it a blessingthat I wanted to run back to it.
SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
Yeah.
So when did the transition orthe actually start to become a
reporter part happen in yourlife?
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Aaron Powell I made more money as a 15-year-old on
the Jersey Shore.
I don't think I made as muchuntil I was 29.
Like we were making a lot ofcash and we weren't paying any
taxes.
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
I was a waitress in Long Island too, and I know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:01):
No.
And then you get out in theworld, you're like, well, first
of all, with a degree?
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
So I I I graduated college.
Uh I'd gone to Cornell.
I was 22 chronologically.
I was about 15 and a halfdevelopmentally.
Aaron Powell That's fine.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
We've heard that about boys.
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
Yeah.
Oh.
I didn't know what I wanted todo, and I just thought it would
be a sort of a somewhatproductive way to let the dust
settle to teach.
Um I went to New Orleans andtaught school there for a couple
of years at a great independentschool, Country Day School in in
Metary.
And then I went to um uhPhiladelphia, did the same
thing, Chestnut Hill Academy,for a year.
(07:40):
Then I went to grad school.
I thought I was going to be ahistory professor.
So I went to Brown, I was in aPhD history program, and I was
awful.
Like I was a terrible gradstudent.
I just thought it was one thing.
I thought you would like readinteresting books for a living,
and it wasn't.
But thank God I went therebecause I met my wife,
Christina, who actually did havethe requisite brain power and
(08:04):
intellectual capability to dothat kind of work.
So she hung around and I tookoff and started this
broadcasting thing.
And eventually, you know, weended up sort of realizing that
if we were going to start afamily and make it all happen,
we had to be in the same place.
She came to Syracuse where whereI was working at that point.
In the old days, I'm gonna soundlike a 97-year-old man howling
(08:24):
at the moment.
Back in the day.
Back in the old days, you usedto have to sort of, it was like
playing minor league baseball toget to a network news operation.
And you would work through theseseries of local television
stations, which I did andlearned a lot and met some
wonderful people.
And then CBS hired me uh in1996.
SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
So in New York City.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
I started in Miami.
They uh also had a lot biggerfootprint.
Back then they had bureaus.
I went to the Miami and then Iwent to Dallas, came to New
York, started to do someoverseas coverage, went to the
White House.
I was in Afghanistan, Iraq,various places while I was sort
of sort of gaining my experienceand learning how to do this
business.
And it was just an amazing,fantastic, wonderful run.
SPEAKER_03 (09:09):
Well, can we ask you a cut to tell a couple of
stories, some little moments?
Like one that we all know of isthat you were there when the
Iraq war broke out.
SPEAKER_00 (09:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:20):
Can you tell us you were embedded with the U.S.
SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
Marines, right?
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
I was with the with the uh 1st Brigade of the 3rd
Infantry Division of the UnitedStates Army.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
And it was you know, I grew up in a time New Jersey
in the 70s.
It's not like we had a lot ofparents running off to do
reserve duty.
I didn't know anything about themilitary, and watching the men
and women of the uh 3rd Infantryprosecute the war was just an
eye-opener, incrediblyimpressive.
I've often said if I wasstarting a business like find me
a bunch of veterans, they wereit was just an unbelievable
(09:52):
experience to live through.
I also, though, don't come froma long line of brave people.
And it was petrifying as well.
I write about this in in thatbook.
In the long run, I had a very,very close call on uh the bridge
over the Euphrates River.
And it took me years to come togrips with all of the emotional
fallout of having trauma.
(10:12):
My my wife.
Yeah, I guess I haven'tcompletely gotten through it,
and which is okay.
Like I think it's important inlife to have experiences that
you feel deeply for years after.
But you know, my wife was sevenmonths pregnant with my little
guy who's now 22.
And um uh I, you know, I couldhave left them alone and I think
about that, and that createdtremendous guilt for me on the
(10:34):
other side of like, what are youdoing?
And sort of launched a littlebit of understanding, needing to
understand why you're doing whatyou're doing, which I think is a
critically important and oftenoverlooked life skill.
Like, why are you doing whatyou're doing?
Every time I've run into eithermy own issue or have tried to
listen to friends and family andpeople I love help them through
(10:56):
something, it's amazing to mehow often people cannot explain
why they're doing what they'redoing.
For me, the seminal moment of ofthat understanding was almost
dying on this bridge.
SPEAKER_02 (11:06):
I'm grateful for you to talk about it.
And it is so important for us tohear that as humans and also to
ask, remind our kids as well.
You know, they watch us and theywatch us get stressed about work
and stressed about all thethings and why are you stressed?
And to be able to hear you putit so succinctly is pretty
(11:27):
eye-opening.
I want to talk to the kidsabout, you know, just make sure
you reassess on a frequentbasis.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Always.
Always.
And, you know, you you forget,right?
Like it's such an odd thing tostart looking at you realize
you're at a point in life where,say, I'm 62 years old.
That was my grandparents, right?
Like I'm thinking a lot andreally starting to wonder if
there's not something to diveinto here about what you have
left.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
Aaron Powell It depends on what your purpose,
what you feel your purpose is todo in that time, right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
But that requires, Jeanette, that requires clarity.
Yeah.
That is you must do the work tohave clarity of thought so that
you understand for you and foryour family, and for your family
what is important, what's worthgetting on that bridge for.
That's that's the metaphor forme.
There's that quote, I think it'sKierkegaard who said, you live
your life going forward, youunderstand it looking backward.
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
Backward.
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Somehow you can't wait to look backward to
understand things.
You have to do the work as youare heading forward so that you
can, for instance, Rachel, asyou said, you can counsel your
kids, you know, to the extentthat they're listening.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
I mean, right.
I I should have put that in.
They might not listen at thismoment.
You can edit that and then laterthey can think about it.
SPEAKER_03 (12:38):
Yeah.
Well, well, you know, you write,and I know that you've been open
about you've had a lot ofambition and a lot of drive, and
you've also reflected andregretted, you write about it in
your book about Christina, andyou're, you know, looking back
and feeling that you might havenot been there during as you
even mentioned in thatparticular instance, but
throughout your whole career.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
And trying to understand, and you even put,
and I thought was so great asone of your um your quotes that
you had put in from a fortunecookie, which I love because my
husband's obsessed with fortunecookies and I'm not.
Is it all men should try tolearn before they die what they
are running from and to and why?
Yes.
I feel that you have come to aplace that you have reflected
(13:20):
and figured out what would madeyou go under that bridge and why
you return.
Because you have.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
That's a wonderful question.
And I think it's an importantthing to talk about.
So what's your ambition?
Ambition's great, but what's itin service to?
That becomes what sets thetrajectory of your life, right?
Like, what is the ambition inservice to?
Is it becoming the best partneror parent or friend, son?
What are you putting all of thatdesire in service to achieving?
(13:48):
Very important question.
I don't think any of this getsdone without doing a lot of
work, right?
Like you very uncomfortable.
I just was doing an interviewactually last Sunday with Ben
Stiller, who's got this greatdocumentary coming out about his
parents.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Not his parents, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
But about a lot more.
It's about him and it's abouthis failures as a father along
the way.
And so we were having thisreally great conversation about
what you are their ambition byitself is fine.
You'll see if you watch thisdocumentary uh on Apple, which
drops, I think, in a week or so.
Like the mirror is a veryuncomfortable place to stand,
(14:27):
especially when your childrenare holding it up, right?
Like that's just, you know, butbut that's the only way you're
gonna get to where you want inany relationship with your kids.
Like, you gotta go to themirror.
I don't know any other wayaround it.
Like, you got to spend some timeand not looking to see like if
your tie knot's done correctly.
SPEAKER_02 (14:45):
Like, you gotta spend some time in the mirror
and do the assessment is alsohas to be, you have to reassess
all the time because yourambition and the why is gonna
change through each life phase.
So before you're married, yourambition has a specific goal.
Then you are in a relationship,it changes.
Then you have kids, it changes.
(15:06):
So I think that if we couldunderstand more as people that
it's fluid and you're not stuckto the one dream you or ambition
you had when you were expectinga few years.
SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
In fact, maybe the best ambition you have is to be
flexible and to evolve.
I have these Jersey buddies fromfifth grade, like best pals in
the world, love these guys.
We've been friends now, in somecases, for more than 50 years,
and we still get together.
And one of the amazing thingsabout it is everything's rooted
(15:38):
in, you know, 10-year-old boyhumors, you know, but there's
also these 62-year-old men andand able to compare notes on the
journeys everybody has taken.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
That uh that's the richest part, right?
Is that everyone's taken ajourney and we've all been there
sort of for each other throughparts and chapters of those
journeys.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_03 (16:00):
Some of the chapters in your life I find interesting
is that I know as we're talkingabout ambition and your drive,
one of the things is craftingyour craft.
I feel like that's part of yourambition and your and your
purpose is to get really good atwhat you do and for others to
recognize it, which we all knowprobably has some parent complex
going on there that we're tryingto please our parents in some
(16:21):
way.
We got that.
And of course, your dad, youwrote a book about your dad, for
God's sakes, being, you know,I'm assuming.
She hasn't written that book yetbecause it's coming.
But so we know that there's anambitious drive for you.
But what I really uh fascinatedabout you is your um candidness
about your struggle in in theindustry itself, working and not
(16:43):
being recognized, or even theone line that you craft so hard
to just say one line perfectlyand hoping that everyone, you
know, is like, hey, wow.
That was but it's really turnsout to be your own self.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
Yeah, I know.
But the person that the otherthe person in the living room
watching probably got up to geta coke at that moment.
But that this again isevolutionary.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
But that's a good life lesson.
SPEAKER_00 (17:07):
And and why you're writing and who you're writing
for and what your purpose is.
Again, like if you are simplytrying to get good at what you
do so that it somehow translatesto some kind of external
validation, you're done.
Like you're you're running downthe wrong road.
If you're trying to get betterat a skill because somehow it
(17:28):
increases your capacity toconnect to people and elevate
the quality of your life, allright, now we can talk, right?
Now but we live in a time thatis so money obsessed and so
reward obsessed.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
And I just it's all about external validation.
Ooh, the whole thing.
Either with money or likes orclicks or whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
This thing this phone that we all like are
connected to because thevalidation is literally it's the
craziest word in the world,likes.
SPEAKER_02 (17:57):
You're looking to be the head of a your own cult of
you.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
And no, also, here's I'm gonna be the advocate.
The devil made the contrary.
No, no, not necessarilycontrarian.
I'm just saying that it's ournew economy.
Yeah, you know, there's not alot.
That is the shift in how we'remaking our livings now, a living
now.
And if you can't monetize theseskills, you really can't pay the
(18:23):
rent anymore.
I mean, because there's notanother job out there.
This is where the this isadvertising now, this is where
people are getting their healthinformation out, this is where
it's all coming through thisnow.
And it's strange to say that thelikes are are are the monetary.
The currency.
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
The currency.
Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
And so it's I want to get good at what I do so that
somebody will hire me so I canmake money, so I can, you know,
put money in my coll my kids'college fund, put money, you
know.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
Let me throw out a Jersey pushback to what you're
saying.
And I can't believe I get todrop Springsteen into this, but
I do.
So people ask me all the time,what's the who's the best
interview you've ever done, orwhat's the coolest experience
you've ever had?
And there's a lot, and they'renot all Jersey based, but I must
say I had this amazingconversation with Bruce
(19:13):
Springsteen uh a couple yearsago.
I saw it.
And it was about despair and itwas about depression, and it was
about the lowest moment of hislife and what that helped him
create, which is, I think hefeels the highest form.
It's it's the basis of theWarren Zayn's book, and it's the
basis of this movie that'sthat's coming out now.
(19:35):
And by the way, not for nothing,but we only got there into a
space where he was able to gothere because it really was two
Jersey guys sitting down talkingabout like before the camera
turned on.
I was asking him about the Fordfactory on Route One in Edison
where his dad worked, and youknow, Delicious Orchards and
Colt's neck.
There was some Jerseycredibility established.
(19:56):
And then he wanted to talk aboutdespair.
This had nothing to do withlikes, with clicks, with
follows.
I'm sure it had, I don't knowthe answers.
I have no idea how many.
Sometimes someone will send me aTikTok and an excerpt from that
interview is on TikTok and wooyeah.
The value, the beauty of thatmoment was something that is as
(20:18):
old as as people in caves andcampfires.
It was the connection betweentwo people and the admission of
the struggle involved in life.
And so among the many things I Idon't like about our world, and
I constantly am saying to mykids, I'm sorry that this is
what we're leaving you, is thisartifice of what connection is.
(20:38):
This stuff where people connectfrom their isolation and blob,
you know, something that passesfor real connection.
The reason was not that I wassitting with with him, but I was
hearing the most honestarticulation of the valley that
all of us walk through at somepart in our life.
And because someone may havebeen on the other end of a
(20:59):
television screen or a phone onTikTok, they were hearing there
was something about hearingsomebody of that stature say,
Yeah, no, most human thingavailable and possible is
struggle.
That I feel like now that is acraft worth pursuing, that you
can bring that story to acritical mass of people who may
(21:21):
be sitting there in their ownpain and say, Okay, I'm not
alone.
SPEAKER_03 (21:25):
Well, I would say, Rachel, we can say that that's
our been our mission plan aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
Exactly.
That has been our mission forLost in Jersey, and we're doing
such a great job that we aren'tmaking any money.
I mean, I'm we have nailed whatyou want.
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
It will happen.
You guys, you guys really it'sfine.
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
It's fine.
It doesn't bother us.
It's really fine.
SPEAKER_03 (21:45):
Yeah, but just to the point, this is true, is that
we, I mean, and I think it'salso part of, you know, been my
my career history as well, isthat we don't really want to get
into the money part of itbecause we get to say whatever
we want to say, we get to telland also whoever we want to talk
to.
We talk to tell people that whenyou're our age, you've gone
(22:07):
through some shit.
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (22:09):
A question about the whole change in atmosphere with
not just news but also socialmedia and what's getting money
behind it and clicks.
I can't not ask.
But you know, the Barry Weiss,free press, CBS News, are you
allowed to express your opinionon what you think that means?
SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
I I think change is good.
And one thing that I think isindisputable is, you know,
clearly she has a mastery ofpresenting news that is
consequential, that newsmakersread.
I mean, she's done this amazingthing with the with this media
outlet.
And so it there's an energy, afreshness, an understanding of
maybe uh the new way to be ableto communicate the reporting
(22:51):
that's done.
So I have no issue.
Now we're talking here earlydays, and let's see what
unfolds.
But from my perspective, I'vebeen watching the erosion of the
network news business steadilyfor 30 years.
Let me just make sure everybodyunderstands something.
Walter Cronkite in 1967-68, thecountry was 200 million people,
(23:12):
much smaller.
He had 18 million peoplewatching every night.
And Huntley and Brinkley, theNBC Nightly News, had another 17
million.
35 million Americans out of 200million were watching the
evening news broadcasts everynight.
Now, I don't know, you don'thave the three adding up to just
what Walter had, not even close,right?
(23:33):
And it's a a business that hasbeen in decline, not because
anybody was doing anythingwrong, although we could have
another conversation about that.
But again, just because of this,everybody's reading the news all
day.
And so it's a differentenvironment, a different
reality, a different revenuestructure.
And here comes somebody who'shad a lot of success and
understands it and now wants toapply what it is she knows to
(23:56):
this place.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
Aaron Powell What do you think the evening news or
the network news is supposed tobe?
Like what is it for?
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Aaron Ross Powell I think it's a a digest of what
has happened, but in many caseswhat hasn't been figured out yet
is what if somebody has anunderstanding already because
they've been checking theirphone 12 times?
Nobody's coming in when I saynobody.
Far fewer people are sittingdown at 6 30.
What is the evening news in myview?
It's supposed to tell us alittle bit.
(24:25):
I mean, I'm I sort of overseethis part of the evening news
every night called I in America,which is supposed to tell us
about us.
Who are we?
What are the trends shaping ourculture?
What are the problems?
What are the solutions?
This sense of who are we?
Like, I love that as part of theevening news.
I do think there should be adigest.
What are the most importantthings?
If you haven't, like have any ifyou haven't checked your phone,
(24:46):
what's happened today?
Okay, it's like a beautifullittle constellation and
distillation.
But because you can also say atsay the end of the first block,
hey, a lot more happened than wehave time for.
Go to cbsnews.com.
We have it all there for you.
I think there needs to be a bitmore better job of integration
between what we're putting onthe television at 6 30 and then
(25:08):
as an entree into some otherplatform where you can then get
the rest of the stuff and morein-depth and all of those
things.
So to me, it's just a questionof matching the work that a lot
of very talented people do atCBS and other places and making
sure that that's delivered andpresented in an accessible way
on a number of platforms wherepeople actually are.
(25:30):
I I think people want a sense ofbalance.
There's a wide range of mediaoutlets where you can go.
So if you want to just sort ofreaffirm what it is you believe,
then you there's plenty ofplaces for you to go, whatever
part of the political spectrumwherever you're located.
I happen not to think politicsand the political lens and the
(25:51):
political spectrum is the onlyplace and only way people
perceive the world.
I'll give you a perfect example.
I was in North Korea.
North Korea, about the the mostmost incredibly different
culture you could possibly bein.
And I was sitting there and theplace is like bizarro land in so
many different ways.
But I watched all of a sudden amother and her son walk down the
(26:15):
street and the kid was holdingan ice cream cone, licking the
ice cream cone and holding themother's hand.
And I could have been inHighland Park, New Jersey.
And I thought to myself, nowthat is a universal.
If I was sitting in Milwaukeeand I was in a park and I saw
the mother and the son walkingdown the street, and the son had
(26:36):
an ice cream cone and washolding the mother's hand, do
you think I'd say, geez, Iwonder if she's conservative?
I wonder if she's a liberal.
I wonder if she voted forHillary.
Did she vote for Trump?
No.
I would marvel in the same thinghappening in Milwaukee that was
happening in Pyongyang and howbeautiful that is as human
beings, that we have thoseuniversals.
So I happen not to believe thateverybody's constantly
(26:59):
perceiving the world through thelens of who did you vote for?
Or what do you think of this orthat or the other policy?
So you're an optimist.
I I have a glass, as my daughteronce said when I was lecturing
her, that we as Axelrods haveglasses that are half full.
And she said, What if your glassis half full of a liquid you
don't like?
She was seven.
(27:21):
So yes, I'm an optimist.
But I also you we're I'm I'mthrowing this out in terms of
what is our news.
I think we have an obligation asjournalists.
Yes, you must note what ishappening and you must have some
historical context where you canplace that and you need to be
able to tell people what it is.
You know, it's it's kind of abasic like first-year journalism
(27:44):
school idea.
But if if somebody says it'sraining, your job isn't to then
say, Joe said it's raining,Susie said it's not.
Your job is to open up thewindow, stick your head out, and
see if you get wet.
That's your job as a journalist.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
And I feel that that's I mean, I think a lot of
people feel that that's what'smissing in a lot of what we're
reading and seeing.
So I mean, I do think there's anopportunity for CBS News for
sure.
SPEAKER_03 (28:10):
I mean, I think that you bring up a good uh example
about putting your head out thewindow and raining, but the I
think I would like to talk alittle bit about the truth of
the reporting because things areedited down and you know, and
then also the amount of makingsure that the story is true.
Like, yes, it's raining outside,but yes, there's a guy with a
water hose that actually waspouring the water.
(28:32):
So have you had a situationwhere you believed in a story
and then you found out that itwas actually not correct?
You know, and then you may havehad like an existential crisis
about what is the truth inreporting, for example.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
I mean, I've definitely had stories where I
engaged in sort of theunderlying principles of
journalism and found out that itwas something other than I had
been told it might be.
And if you're doing your jobcorrectly and properly, that's
like the point of it, is to tovet, to get more than one
source, to run it by experts.
(29:06):
Like I happen to believewhatever moment we're in, the
one thing that we need more thananything else is experienced,
credible people saying, look,this is what I saw and heard.
If you don't want to believe it,there's nothing I can do about
that.
But I'll give you a perfectexample.
You know, when there was an IRSagent named Gary Shapley who
(29:28):
said that the Justice Departmentwas going easy on Hunter Biden,
okay, you can imagine how thisthing neatly divided
politically.
I did the interview, the firstinterview with Gary Shapley.
You know what?
Entirely credible guy.
You know what the CBS EveningNews did?
We put on a three minuteinterview with Gary Shapley.
Now, I laugh sometimes whenpeople are like, oh, Liberal
(29:49):
News Network.
Like nobody told me how tohandle that interview, and I was
able to do that.
So I only throw that out to saythere is real reporting still.
Being done and everything breaksinto are you on the Mets or the
Yankees?
Do you drink Coke or Pepsi?
And life is gray.
It's there's nuance.
It's literally in the middle.
(30:11):
And I don't believe there's amoment in, you know, things
evolve in history.
So I'm not sure the pendulum, Idon't know where it is.
I don't know when's it swingingback.
SPEAKER_02 (30:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:21):
I'll I'll be honest with you guys.
Aaron Powell Having been on allparts of this, it's easier to
interview Ben Stiller and BruceSpringsteen about issues of the
soul and the heart.
It's not just safer, but it'slike to me, it coheres and
aligns with these other issuesthat we're talking about, which
is like life and walks throughvalleys and evolution of souls.
(30:42):
And at the end of all of it,when we all get to our ends, do
you really think like in thatmontage of images we all have
about our life at the end isgoing to be some argument you
had with some cousin atThanksgiving about politics?
It's not.
It's going to be holding holdingyour kid's hand at the bus stop.
That's what it's about.
(31:03):
And so the journalism I can doat this point in my life, at
this point in my career, that isabout those things, that's where
I want to spend my time.
SPEAKER_03 (31:11):
And you do it very eloquently.
That's your why.
Yeah.
That's the why.
The journey that you've beengoing on, it does seem like you
did do all of those otherthings.
You know, you did, you coveredit.
There's no like looking back,like, what if I would have, what
if I also I also wasn't a Iwasn't a great White House
reporter.
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I wasn't.
I wasn't.
SPEAKER_03 (31:31):
Why do you say that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Because I just I know what good reporting is.
I know when I've done stuffwhere I'm like, that's what I'm
supposed to do.
Like, what were you supposed todo?
SPEAKER_03 (31:39):
What was that?
What is that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
That there is there are brilliant political
reporters.
Brilliant.
They have a capacity tounderstand policy, understand
politics, they're deeplysourced, well connected.
We need those people.
But I'd rather I'd ratherconnect with somebody over the
walk through the valley.
Like whether it's Springsteen orwhether it's someone you've
(32:01):
never heard of.
I would rather compare notesabout that.
We all have our naturalintentions and our natural
affinities.
And I'd rather do that workbecause I'm better at that.
This I love this last hour.
And thank you so much for this.
You guys are terrific.
But we're also talking aboutmeaningful, deep, meaningful
stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
Yes.
But that's it too, you know,with Rachel and I, because I
think that we having done this,it has been such a
soul-searching adventure for usas well.
Because you do start to seeother people's formats and other
people's, you know, maybegetting bigger or getting more
likes because they're more,they're more splashy.
(32:40):
They're more, they're moresomething.
But it you have to you have togo through that fire of like
admitting that that is not mything.
It's hard to face that and youyou have self-doubt and
self-criticism.
I think that's also what I loveabout what I've read in your
book is that you are, you, youreally are transparent about
that.
You have gone through those.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
I mean what uses.
What use is it if for otherpeople unless you're gonna be
honest, right?
Yeah, like what and we all,everyone, that this is the other
part of what you were sayingabout the world in which we
live.
People are trying to establishthemselves as brands.
Like what a load of horseshit.
Like brands, like again, themeaningful stuff that'll be with
(33:21):
us at the end of our lives, itwas not about connecting with a
brand.
It was about some conversationyou had with your best friend of
60 years about, you know, s somesome travail one of you or both
of you were having.
SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Oh my gosh, it's so true.
I mean, with Rachel and I, Ithink that we had we went to
have lunch with uh MichaelEuslin after our interview.
You know, he's the executiveproducer of all the Batman
films, right?
And we went to have lunch withhim.
He just invited us out.
We both got in the car and wewere like, that that just you
know That was worth it.
That made it everything.
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
We just had pizza with him at a great little pizza
place.
And we're in Cedar Grove.
SPEAKER_03 (33:59):
Where were we?
We were at Cedar Grove CedarGrove, a pizzeria.
What's that one?
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
Is that Lombardi's?
SPEAKER_03 (34:04):
Is that where you're we were we sat in Lombardi's?
It's really good pizza.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
Got the great sign, best signal.
SPEAKER_03 (34:10):
We should all we should go.
Let's this should be our newthing, Lombardi's lunch.
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
Let's go.
Listen, I will I will say to youguys, like what you just
described and the feeling youhad in the car after that.
Yeah.
Like, that's why anybody shoulddo anything in life.
Yeah.
That chase that.
Use your ambition for that.
And everything else, in my mind,will take care of itself.
SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
You've had so many incredible life experiences.
It's great that you were alsoable to write a memoir to share
your own self-doubts and thenyour own self-reassessment.
And it's just refreshing to hearfrom people who are so
successful.
Regrets, guilt, but also a wayto turn things around and have
what you really want in life.
(34:53):
And then you get to treasurethat.
I didn't get to it yet.
Did you break the 330?
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
Did you Oh my God, I didn't come close.
Are you kidding me?
I was like an hour behind.
Which, by the way, was like alsopart of the takeaway.
Do you think?
And you'll get to the end of thebook.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:16):
And I crossed the line and I'm having a
conversation with my father, youknow, in my first of all, I'm
delirious.
So it was made it easier to havethe conversation.
But the quality of what I tookaway from the whole process from
beginning to end of being sortof grossly overweight and and
(35:37):
like having to run and get tothe finish line of the New York
City Marathon, where my friendwith ALS was, to the value of
that.
And that will be, by the way, inmy montage at the end of my
life.
No part of the value of thatexperience was degraded by the
fact that I finished an hourslower than my father.
(36:02):
In fact, of course I did.
SPEAKER_02 (36:04):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
Dad was a great runner, right?
I was not.
SPEAKER_02 (36:07):
But it wasn't your thing, yeah.
Who cares?
Who cares?
SPEAKER_00 (36:11):
Gives a shit.
SPEAKER_03 (36:12):
So you know what?
That's a better, you know,ending, honestly.
I think it has so much moreimpact.
And it's so it's such an emblemof your your life, too.
Like you said, I wasn't thegreatest white uh White House
correspondent.
You know, you've done it all.
You know, you've done it.
You did it as you did themarathon as well.
Yeah, and I'm not I'm notcarrying around any less and you
(36:33):
and you have, even though youmay have stumbled a few times
with Christina, I adore thatwoman.
I don't know her that well, butevery she knows it too, because
every time, every time I seeher, I'm like, I stop
everything.
I'm like, Christina, hey, howare you doing?
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (36:49):
No, you know what it is?
I'll tell you.
I'll answer the question beforewe go.
Because I tell my kids this allthe time about as they're
starting to partner with people.
Like everything else is sort ofup for grabs.
There's one non-negotiable.
Find someone kind.
Find kindness.
There's no kinder human beingwalking around Claire than my
wife.
SPEAKER_03 (37:09):
I believe you.
And I would be choking up too ifshe was a significant other.
But thank you so much forjoining us on Lost Turn Jersey.
I know we didn't hit do ourhard-hitting reporting like you
do.
And we have one really hardreporting question to ask you at
the very end that we askeveryone.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Go.
SPEAKER_03 (37:25):
Okay, Rachel, you want to do the honors?
SPEAKER_02 (37:27):
Well, it's gonna be hard for you, but you're gonna
have to just give us one thing,your favorite thing that you
love about New Jersey.
It's gonna be tough.
What?
SPEAKER_03 (37:36):
Also, you if there's a restaurant that you really,
really feel at home at, there'sonly there's one place, the
Harvey Cedar Shellfish Company.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
Okay.
Harvey Cedars, New Jersey.
SPEAKER_03 (37:46):
Yeah, and the Michigan.
SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
On Long Beach Island, where where in 1978 you
could get a one-pound lobster,mussels, and an ear of corn for
$4.95.
SPEAKER_02 (37:59):
Whoa.
SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
And and the Garafolo brothers have owned that place
now.
Uh I think they just had their50th anniversary celebration
last summer.
You wait in line.
There was uh there's a list, noreservations.
I'll put a link to it.
It's the best, and look on thewall, and you'll find the guy
with the enormous afro.
(38:20):
And it's just uh the best, bestseafood in New Jersey.
Can I just say one thing beforewe go?
SPEAKER_02 (38:27):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
Thank you.
This was so lovely, and I soappreciate conversations of
depth and meaning andauthenticity and intentional
intentionality.
So I love what you guys aredoing, but I'm honored that you
would think I would havesomething to say to you.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:47):
Thank you so much at you.
SPEAKER_03 (38:48):
Yes, we're honored that you came on, and we're
honored that you are honored.
Thanks, Jim.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,iTunes, and Buzz Sprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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