February 11, 2025 • 41 mins
NYC/NJ Matchmaker Michelle Frankel shares practical tips on navigating digital and real-world dating landscapes while emphasizing the timeless human quest for love and connection. Prepare to be enlightened as Michelle reveals the art of presenting oneself authentically to attract meaningful relationships.
• Common mistakes in online dating
• The critical role of self-awareness in dating
• Tips for better conversations on dates
• Importance of an enjoyable date setting for authentic connection
• Navigating dating during holidays like Valentine’s Day
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello Rachel, hey Jeanette, so we just did our
Valentine's episode.
We interviewed a matchmaker.
So let's just Ah, it was so fun, it was fun she was terrific.
Michelle Frankel is her nameMichelle Frankel yes, and before
we introduce her, I wanna knowhow you met your match.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Ah, yes, we shall share this.
I will give you the condensedversion.
Give me the two second one.
Yes, we shall share this.
I will give you the condensedversion.
Give me the two second one.
Bill and I met in college in anelevator.
I knew that, however, we didnot date.
We were somewhat friends, butwe had much more friends in
common.
But we both remember theelevator meeting.
It was pretty indelible.
(00:42):
Years later I go to visit myfriend Christine in the
Philippines because I'm having amental breakdown.
Being a management consultantin New York City and having to
wear sheer hose, it was killingme.
So she says, just save moneyfrom your great job and get your
butt to the Philippines.
So I said okay.
(01:02):
And then, once we were there,she said hey, do you remember
this guy, bill Martens?
He's a journalist in Thailand.
Let's go visit him.
It's like a hop, skip and ajump.
So we remet in Thailand, camehome.
He still lived there.
Years go by.
Finally we're in the same cityand we keep running into each
other and we keep loving runninginto each other.
(01:23):
And there you have into eachother.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And there you have it , and I love bill and you.
Together it's a greatrelationship and you have
created an incredible familywith three incredible girls.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So that was a perfectly wonderful match okay,
tell us about roger.
I don't know how to tell it umbecause it has a two.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
It has a two-parter.
Yeah, I had uh put an ad in athe austin chronicle which at
that time there was no, you know, tech was just kind of a thing.
I remember right, yeah and um,it said pretty persian seeking
fun smart person to hang outwith right and I should just
call you pretty persian I.
(02:03):
It was so ridiculous when Ithink about it and I remember it
was funny because they wouldleave messages.
This was, like you know, the ohright, you leave a voicemail,
yeah and I lived in my apartmentin Austin and I would call my
sister and we would listen tothem and we would be like, oh my
god, this is nuts right.
So, so good.
We did this and I went on a fewof those dates and I absolutely
was like I, I think I went onthree.
(02:24):
One guy I kind of like did hangout with a little and did like
him.
He was a super techie guy andhe was like from Carnegie Mellon
and I was like dude, I don'teven know why I'm hanging out
with you, but I liked him.
But the others all just wantedto hook up and they grossed me
out so bad they're like you're apretty person, I know I was
like I guess I shouldn't haveput that.
(02:44):
And they were all actuallyMiddle Eastern, which was really
obvious, clearly.
Anyway, I was like I abandonedthat and then just went along my
merry way.
And then one day at work therewas a cute guy that I kept
seeing, had very long hair andhe was incredibly hot.
Right, he would hang out andsmoke, he'd take smoke breaks
(03:06):
and I'd be coming in and goingwhatever.
And then finally one day I waslike coming in and I went up to
him while he was out in frontand I was like, hey, can I bum a
cigarette?
And he was like sure, and wesat down and we started talking
and I was like I saw he had anAllah on a pendant on his neck
(03:28):
and I said, is that an Allah?
And he's like, yeah, he's likeI'm Iranian.
And I was like, oh my god, I'mIranian too.
And then he's like, well, I'mjust half, I go, I'm half too.
That's it.
We've been together for 30years made in heaven.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, it's amazing it is such a great story and it's
crazy what you guys have incommon.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh so crazy it's wild yeah, it's nuts like his sister
mary, my sister maria.
They're both older, they'reboth very similar and they're
like extroverted yes, we'reintrovertedious.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
We're introverted, dark.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
They both have blonde , my sister's blonde, his
sister's got incredible red hairand we're both dark and, like
you know, oh my gosh, and nowyou have two beautiful sons.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's wild.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So enough about us.
Let's talk about Michelle.
Michelle is an incrediblematchmaker and she takes us
through how she got intomatchmaking and gives us some
tips on what the modern world islike in getting dates and going
on dates, and she also promotesonline dating in addition to
what she is in person type ofmatchmaker what is it?
(04:45):
Called A concierge type ofdating.
Yeah Well.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I think what's great, too, is because of her
background she's a lawyer andshe's also done marketing for
law firms.
She really helps you look atyourself and see how best to
present yourself, whether it'son the online dating apps or in
person on a date.
We learned a lot about dating,flirting, how it's different
(05:09):
today versus what it used to belike, but also people are just
looking for love andrelationships, so she's helping
you find one.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, so whether you're looking for someone or
you're just, you know, want tobe equipped with telling your
friend what they should andshould not do or who they can go
to take a listen.
This is a great, greatinterview.
Happy Valentine's week.
Happy Valentine's, Michelle.
So nice to have you on the show.
(05:38):
Thank you for joining us for aValentine's episode.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Thank you so much for having me today, and I know so
many of our listeners will be soexcited to hear your valuable
tips and tricks and then, ifthey're getting back into the
dating game, that they can reachout because you're in New
Jersey and in New York City.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So yeah, before we get into the nitty gritty of how
to find your maid and howthings have changed in online
versus in person, we want to getyour background.
How did you get involved inmatchmaking?
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So I had been a professional matchmaker now for
over 15 years and very fewpeople can say what do you do
for a living?
I make love for a living, oh myGod.
So my trajectory is that I waspracticing law no-transcript,
(06:50):
still together 15 years laterand once that happened, I got so
much joy from changingsomeone's life that I was like
you know what this law thing?
So I decided to trade in thelaw for love and do mergers of
another kind.
And here I am, 10 years later,still doing it.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
That's so amazing, Rachel.
Have you ever matched upsomebody in your life?
I did, but it was an accident.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Did it work, did it work, they're still together.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
See, I've done it.
I've done it twice and it wasso stressful because it didn't
work.
And one was with one of my, anattorney of mine, and with
somebody that I had met overvacation, and it didn't work out
and I was like, oh my God, Ireally can never do this.
So there is a, there is a skillyou know to knowing how to
match people up.
(07:40):
So I'm impressed that you havethat and you move forward with
it.
So okay, so you decided tostart matchmaking.
Did it start with all personal,like in person?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, did you sort of like like old school Yenta,
like, did you figure out whoknew who or who?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, Well, I guess I had a little headstart because
I had recently gotten married,but prior to that I was dating
like a sport.
I mean, I had two dates a day,I had such a Rolodex of
individuals and I had such ahuge network of single people
that I had a really good headstart.
(08:18):
And with that, once I startedspreading the word, people
started coming to me and,honestly, I started with a cell
phone 15 years ago, a flip phone, yeah, a business card, and I
haven't had a slow day eversince.
Now my team is six individuals.
It's not me alone doing themagic.
I have six people on my teamand we keep pretty busy.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Wow.
You know, we both said wowbecause I think, yeah, because
it's like it's such a thing nowonline dating, right and but
everybody knows that there hasbeen a tradition through all of
time of there being somebodythat's known as the matchmaker.
Either they're doingastrological matchmaking, which
is really common I think inIndia they do a lot of that type
(09:05):
of, you know, type ofmatchmaking or families with
families.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Things like that.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You know it's cultural or religious
matchmaking.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, or kings with princes, that whole historical
thing.
You got to marry within thefamily thing.
You got to marry within thefamily.
But it's changed so much nowthat it's really so much based
on what you think you want.
And you go online and you'reswiping right, swiping left, you
know, and doing it like that,how do you, how do you like?
(09:39):
I'm sure you get a lot ofpeople coming to you that have
done that and what do they say?
Why are they giving up on that?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Sure.
So I'm a huge proponent ofonline dating, even though you
would think I wouldn't be,because it's like almost the
competition, but it's actually.
If done right and that's thekey term right.
You have to date smart, and ifyou utilize the platform in a
smart, productive capacity, itcould absolutely be a useful
(10:06):
tool.
That being said, so many peoplecome to us and say you know,
I'm emotionally exhausted.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah, just before this, I spoke to someone I
didn't even know this existed,but a client I was speaking to
had told me he has some kind ofapp that auto swipes for him.
This is the first time.
What about this?
He goes I've swiped on everyonein Long Island from you know,
and I'm like what?
There's a that does that?
(10:34):
Right?
So a lot of people come to usemotionally exhausted and and
they are emotionally exhaustedfrom online dating because not
always are people's profilesaccurate right, yes, the
pictures are 10 years old.
People aren't actually alwaysgenuine and authentic and
(10:57):
stating the truth, whetherthey're really divorced or just
separated, and it's a marketingpiece.
People are putting their bestfoot forward and you're not
getting to the true values ofsomeone.
I mean relationships,successful relationships are
based on similar ideologies,similar values, ways of
(11:19):
communication and lifestyles.
Right, it's so funny.
So many people come to me andthey're like, oh, I want someone
who likes camping or playtennis.
I was like, why does thatmatter?
Like, that's the issue.
You can always find apickleball player.
You know a friend?
Yeah, really, finding someonewho can be with you through
tough times, who can communicatewell, who you know has the same
(11:44):
values, wants the same thingsout of life.
So, going back to your originalquestion, people get so
emotionally drained andexhausted from swiping and,
frankly, people aren't veryrespectful when they do online
dating right, because there'snot a connection, it's like
through a barrier, whether it'syour phone or the computer, and
(12:06):
they don't feel the need to berespectful and realize that
there's another person on theother end.
It's really sad.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You know how people treat each other online
sometimes they're a little moreserious about finding a real
permanent match or something youknow, really going there
because it's more yeah.
Online's more like sampling.
Like what am I like?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Do people like me?
So online dating is almost anego affirmation, right, people
are hoping to get that ego buzzand some of it's just that like
they want to keep on swipe.
How many yeses can I get?
Yeah, yeah, when people come tous, they date with intention.
Right, it's not that they.
You know.
The biggest misconception ispeople are like oh, people go to
a matchmaker, need help.
No, we work with CEOs, we workwith celebrities who would think
that would have a mile longlist of people.
(13:01):
But no, it's people who arelike I want to date with
intention.
I don't have that much freetime.
The free time I do have, I wantto put it toward working out my
friends, my family, otherthings.
I want to cut through all thenoise and I want to optimize the
chance of success.
And by working with you andyour team, I'm able to do that
(13:24):
because, basically, we dateeverybody before our clients
date them.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Exactly so you get to really meet them and understand
their goals and theirpersonality.
I wanted to ask about that Doyou find that a large percentage
of your clientele come to youand they tell you what they want
, but maybe they don't reallyknow what they want or they're
not 100% self-aware, right?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Absolutely all the time, and so it's our job as
matchmakers and this is wheretransferable skills from being a
lawyer really assists me is toask those follow-up questions
and like, for instance, here's agreat example.
Someone will say I need someonewho has a graduate degree, just
like I do.
Right, I'm like really why?
(14:13):
Like why you know, zuckerbergdidn't even graduate college,
neither did Gates.
Like, why do you need agraduate degree?
And they're like well, becausethen I know they're ambitious.
Well, can someone be ambitiousand not're successful?
And they have a successfulcompany and they only have an
undergraduate, how are they notsuccessful?
(14:33):
Oh, you're right.
Well, maybe they don't have tohave a graduate degree, or maybe
they don't have to have gone toan Ivy League college.
And it's really asking thosefollow-up questions and finding
out what is the value that is soimportant to them.
And most of those cases takingfor example this graduate degree
criteria they, the individuals,generally want to see that
(14:57):
someone can complete something,that they started something and
finish something.
So if you can show that inanother avenue, then yes, it's
the same thing.
Or if you can show someone isambitious or driven, it's the
same value.
They don't actually need agraduate degree to show those
values need a graduate degree toshow those values.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Okay, so this is why I'm not a good matchmaker,
because I would say, yeah, youclearly need.
You're completely wrong.
First of all, I'd be likethinking that in my head, right,
and then I'd be like, well, butyeah, you need to be with
someone that has a graduatedegree, because you're going to
always think you're superior ifthey don't right.
That's why I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You can help people sort of craft their message
right, Like if a client comes toyou and says I am looking for,
you know, a partner.
I don't know why I've had allthese bad dates and I don't know
what I how am I going to getwhat I want?
And then do you say like well,how do you think you present?
I know you do give tips on likeyeah, exactly, hair makeup
(16:01):
clothes absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
We do give tips and we have a big range of
partnerships with experts inthose different areas.
You know stylists and makeupartists and all of that.
But we also do something that'sfascinating called a mock date,
where we put someone on a datewith someone you know who is
connected to our industry, goeson a date and they may or may
(16:24):
not know it's a mock date, butthe real point of it is
afterwards.
We're getting all that feedbackright, and not only on how
they're presenting themselves,because it's not all that
different from going on a jobinterview.
You know, the distinctionbetween a job interview and a
date is there's flirtinginvolved and it's more of an
emotional connection.
But you want to put your bestfoot forward.
(16:45):
So how are you presentingyourself?
You know what is theconversation, what questions are
you asking, and we're able toget that through these mock
dates and then do a coachingsession afterwards and say, okay
, let's break this down.
This is why you're not gettinga second date with the type of
person you want, because you'redoing X, y and Z.
Let's fix that.
(17:05):
And sometimes I tell peoplelook, this is just feedback.
You need to be authentic toyourself If you don't want to
change yourself, that is totallyfine.
I totally can appreciate that.
But if we're hearing it fromthree people, the same feedback,
it's no longer you know oneperson's opinion.
It's the perception you'regiving out there and just
(17:25):
realize the perception thatyou're putting out there.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Okay.
Well, what are some of thecommon mistakes that you see,
that are pretty across the board, that most people look, they're
clearly coming to you, theymight be all doing the same
thing, that you have to redirect.
And what is that redirection?
Well, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
What comes to mind On a first date?
No one likes to be interviewed,right?
The best dates don't feel likea job interview, right?
And it's not an exchange ofresumes, right?
Especially for those boss ladytypes, you know, those
overachievers.
It's really being in the moment, being present and simply
(18:13):
seeing how you feel and notthinking about the future.
Not thinking is this my futurepartner, is this my future
spouse?
Just how does this person makeme feel right now, right here,
right in this moment, and whatcan I learn interesting about
this person?
I think being in that moment isif you really can think about.
(18:34):
Stop thinking about the futureand just be in the moment.
Those are the best dates, when,at the end of the day, you
really have no idea anythingabout them except that you had a
good time.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I like that because that's so counterintuitive to
what I would have thought and Ithink a lot of people do is you
know?
You feel the need to get toknow them because it's the to
see if you should even go on thesecond date rather than
checking in and saying I feltgreat and we just had a fun time
.
I don't, we didn't.
That is actually how a lot ofpeople meet organically,
(19:06):
absolutely Right.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Absolutely.
What is that?
What is a common icebreaker orconversation starter that people
would use instead of saying sowhere'd you grow up?
Or you know, where'd you go toschool?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So one of my favorite questions for people to ask on
a date is that, of course,everyone asks about what do you
do for a living?
Tell me about your job.
I mean, how boring can you?
You know it's like, yeah, youknow, like who wants to talk
about work?
But also, if you could doanything for your career,
anything whatsoever, you had norestrictions, you didn't have to
(19:40):
worry about money, about timerestraints, your family, you
could do anything in the worldthat you wanted, what would you
do?
And all of a sudden, the reasonit's such a great question is
you see, people's eyes getreally excited, right, because
wheels start turning.
And all of a sudden you hearpeople say I'd be a woodworker,
(20:01):
woodworker, like, what it's like.
Well, and then and what's soamazing is it's like a rabbit
hole into a deeper emotionalconversation Well, I'd be like
when I was little, mygrandfather.
He used to take me out and wewould sit there and we made this
rocking chair together and it'sso special.
So you're really close to yourgrandfather, you know.
(20:22):
And all of a sudden you'reconnecting on an emotional level
and those are the dates thatmatter.
It's not the exchange ofresumes, it's really connecting
deeper.
It's like an understanding thatyou know and other people.
I'd love to be a pastry chef.
Tell me about that.
Why, well, I'd love to be apastry chef?
(20:43):
Tell me about that.
Why, well, I love cooking andI'm not really good at it, but
I'm really up for anything and Iwould try.
And you know it leads to ideasof maybe our next date should be
going to, you know, somecooking school together and it
just it's fun.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Right, it's bringing the fun back into a date.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, that leads me to where should this date be,
should you?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
do coffee.
You know I would stay away fromlong drawn-out dinners, that's
not.
You want to do a three-hourdinner, even if you're older I
know it's traditional and youwant someone to take you out to
dinner.
You know you want to stay awayfrom being across from someone
for like two and a half hours,right, yeah, the number one
thing, again, great tip is youshould do an activity.
(21:24):
Okay, like, for instance, myhusband and my first date was a
walk through Central Park, andhe didn't realize this, but in
essence he was walking me homewhen I was a lawyer.
He was walking me from my lawoffice across Central Park to
the other side, where you knowmy condo was.
And during our walk throughCentral Park there was so much
(21:47):
stimulus and people watchingthat we were able to have fun
with like roller bladers infront of people in Central Park
and looking and talking aboutdifferent things.
It was so relaxing and I thinkjust when you're moving you're
relaxed, right, there's not thistension and this.
You're just at ease.
So by being relaxed, I think itis such a great way and even
(22:10):
with my husband, I had no ideaat the end of the night anything
about him, except that it was anice walk, I love that I love
that and I can see that too,because you don't have to stare
at each other.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You can walk forward.
You can, you know, laugh aboutcertain things.
I love that idea of going for awalk.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It reminds me also with kids, because we have kids
that sometimes they share themost intimate things.
When you're in the car,nobody's looking at each other,
you're just looking forward,exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Exactly, and so, whether it's a walk or even
something like playing pool oryou know billiards or you know
pong, I know there's placescalled ping pong, pickleball,
like Lifetime.
Jim and I have partnered up twotimes or three times already.
We do these pickleball events,which are so great because
you're moving, you're flirting,you're being active, so doing
(23:01):
anything that's active and funoutdoors.
I'm a huge fan of so all right.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So what next?
So should we talk about how welook?
I mean, like you said that youdo like maybe makeovers or
something like that.
Is that you know?
What do you suggest on that?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
So the number one thing we do is also we get make
sure everyone has great photosright.
Having great photos are soessential for dating for three
reasons.
One for online dating, you needgreat photos and let me tell
you I've reviewed thousands uponthousands, probably 10,000,
profiles.
People do not put great photosof themselves right.
(23:37):
It's either with like 10 girlshow do I know which one is you?
What picture of food you know?
With 10 animals.
Like it really should just beof yourself.
Maybe one picture of you andyour dog is fine, but it really
should just be a great face shot, a great body shot and you
doing something that can start aconversation, something that is
(24:00):
active.
So when people come to us, wemake sure we have a great photo
shoot done for them.
They can use both for onlinedating that anytime a friend or
family member says, hey, I havesomeone for you, they could say
here, here's my photo, send itto them.
So it's almost their stopdating photo that they could
forward.
Here, here's my photo, send itto them, so it's almost their
stop dating photo that theycould forward to anybody who
(24:22):
might have someone that wants tosee a photo of them.
And also for social media andalso for with us, even in you
know, we have a complimentarydatabase that anyone is free to
join.
We have probably 20,000 singlesin there, if not more.
Whoa, yeah, it's crazy andhaving you know, everyone
(24:42):
uploads their photo.
No one sees it but me and myteam.
But having the best photo ofyourself is really important
because when we do a search, thephotos that stand out are the
people we're going to reach outto for our clients Right, and
definitely you'd be drawn to amore professional photo that's
good lighting and just clearExactly.
You know you don't want a DMVphoto, you don't want it so
(25:04):
staged, you want it lifestyleand you want a great background
where it could be a food cart ora brick wall or a construction
site.
But you want someone who knowshow to use the camera and gets
the best version of you, and nota selfie.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
What is the number of dates that most people go out
on before they either say I'mjust going to try on my own, or
they find somebody that they'regoing to, you know, spend some
time with, and not date anymore?
What is the common number ofdates?
I wish I had that magic number.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Sometimes we nail it on the first session which
shocked me.
That would be so shocking Meand my team too.
Like we're like wow, whichshocked me, that would be so
shocking.
We my team too like we're likewow, we're good.
Wow, we worked with a clientlast month and it was one and
done.
And again, that was shocking tous and isn't typical.
But after each introduction, wethe client and our team we get
(25:56):
back together and we getfeedback after the date right,
both from the client and thedate, which is so insightful
because we're finding out howthey're being perceived and,
more importantly, about ourclient was this the right match
and why or why not?
And getting that feedbackallows us and the team to
recalibrate our search and getcloser and closer to their
target and allows gives us suchgreat insight on what works and
(26:20):
what doesn't work.
So by doing that we're able toreally hone in.
But generally speaking, withinfour introductions, five
introductions, we get over 75%of our clients in relationships.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I mean, do you ever find that sometimes, when you do
the debrief with both of thedates, that one person really
liked the other person and theother did not at all Like?
Does that ever happen, and howdo you handle that?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I know.
What's more shocking was whentwo people were like the best,
like one person's like that wasthe best date of my life, and
the other person was like Inever want to see that person
again.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Oh, my God, I'm sure that actually happens a lot.
I was listening to somesomething on TikTok of a radio
call in thing where this onewoman just thought this date
went so well and the other guystarted to think that she was a
stalker because you know shejust wouldn't let it go Like.
She knows.
You know it was the best datewe ever had.
He was like look, so I imaginepeople get different messages
(27:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
And usually when that happens, you know the feedback
is very insightful from theperson who didn't have the good
date Right.
And also we have to peel thelayers.
Was alcohol involved?
Yeah exactly why was such agreat date to the person that
thought it was such a great date?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Very good point.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So do you sometimes.
You must sometimes feel like atherapist.
I mean, when people are reallytrying to figure out how they
come across, that's a lot,that's vulnerable, and then you
know who they're looking for.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Absolutely.
You know I have a law degree,but I feel like I've earned a
PhD in psychology yeah, years ofthis.
You know, in order for us to besuccessful, the more open and
the more vulnerable somebody is,which, amazingly, most people
are very open and vulnerable tous because they're coming to us,
(28:18):
they're ready, you know,they're ready to meet their
person and what they're doingisn't working and they're like
okay, I've tried, it's notgetting me to my goal, help me.
Everything that we unpack theirpast relationship history,
what's gone wrong?
And, amazingly enough, peoplehave a type right.
(28:39):
If you write down all your pastrelationship histories, they're
definitely generally a theme.
They may look a littledifferent, but there is a theme
of the type of person someone'sattracted to.
And when it doesn't work, overand over again, you know that's
where we come in and we're likeokay, you may like this type of
person, but it's not working foryou.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Right, but that type is not good for you.
Try something else here youknow yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, well, recently I watched Later Daters, which is
a Netflix series that was aboutpeople dating when they're
getting back into the datingworld after 50, I think it was,
and it was very fascinating.
It was really actually verygood.
But and it was interesting thata lot of people have old, you
know, ideas of chivalry andthings like that and changing.
(29:27):
Are there some antiquatedthings, like especially for
Valentine's Day, like flowersand chocolate and things like
that Should we avoid?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
certain things.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
What's the modern way .
What's the?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
modern.
So I think there's a lot ofpressure around these Hallmark
holidays, right, like, yes, I'ma matchmaker, that's what I do.
Love my products, hope and love.
Right, and Valentine's Day andmatchmaking days like my
holidays.
However, that being said, everyday should be Valentine's Day
when you're dating and like onsome level, meaning there should
(30:11):
always be that kindness, thatthinking about somebody else.
You know, to feel the pressureto do something over the top
because it's Valentine's Day, Ifeel puts too much pressure,
especially on new relationships,right, yeah.
So I just say keep it simple.
Valentine's Day, I feel, putstoo much pressure, especially on
new relationships, right, yeah.
So I just say keep it simple.
You know, do some you know ifit's a first or second date,
acknowledge the holiday, youknow, make a joke about it.
You know, kind of like, takethe elephant out of the room,
maybe bring them something small, like you can't get in trouble
(30:31):
for doing something thoughtful,right, right.
But at the same time, if you dotoo much, then it's
overwhelming, it's overwhelming,it scares the person off, and
then they're too easy.
They liked me too much.
There's all of those challenges.
Just a simple acknowledgementand a small gesture is more than
(30:52):
enough.
Is that a small gesture ofbringing flowers still a thing
you know I mean, you know, ifit's first or second date, I
definitely would not probablybring a bouquet maybe even just
more personal, like maybesomething, if they had said
Reese's peanut butter cups aremy favorite, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, something like that.
That's mine who doesn't likechocolate and peanut butter, and
bringing a Reese's peanutbutter cup, yeah, with, like a
ribbon on it.
It would be so sweet that wouldbe perfect.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, I've heard you, I'm listening to you.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
These are good tips, just for relationships.
I think I might have to tell myhusband, bill, excuse me, I
need some.
Reese's.
I need Reese's wrap.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Going back to online dating, because we're on the
Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
Yeah, I'll give another tip toyour listeners.
Yeah, one of the best thingsyou could do for online dating
is actually put something inthere that allows your potential
partner or date to do somethingthat's romantic or chivalrous,
and by that you know.
I actually met my husbandonline and in my profile and
this is going back 14, 15 yearsit said I never want to turn
(32:20):
down a Reese's peanut butter cup.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
And that's such a good tip, because you're helping
them, you know, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Right, yeah, right yeah, and I had a freezer of all
the dirt, recent.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I mean, it was almost like if you don't bring me one,
you fail because you're notreading.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like it's an easyout, like okay, now you clearly
did not take it.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Really read my bio, yeah right, all you have to go
to cbs, spend a dollar and getme a recent sweet and butter cup
and you're already winning youknow?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, that's perfect.
When you were creating yourprofile online, were you aware
of most of the things that yougive advice on now, or were you
still learning?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
yourself.
You know what my background is,also marketing.
I transitioned from being alawyer into being the director
of marketing and running the lawfirms, so I had that marketing
background and so I understoodit's almost like a MLS ad right
Multi-service.
You want to put the bestpictures forward and you want to
(33:29):
be optimistic and authentic andflirty, and so I had some but
not nearly as much advice andguidance as I do 15 years into.
This is what I do every day,all day, right.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
How do you give advice on flirting?
I was curious about that.
That's a good question.
What's a tip you would givesomeone who's out of practice
from flirting?
Speaker 3 (33:57):
So and this is especially true, I think, for
the 40, 50, 60s crowd when yougo to a restaurant, if at all
possible, you never want to sitacross from somebody, right,
sitting directly across fromsomebody is an interview.
(34:17):
It's confrontational in someaspects.
Right, there's so much spaceand it's comfortable.
You don't want to sit on thesame side either.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Okay, I was like I'm not sitting on the same side.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Weird.
I saw Jeanette's face I waslike that's not happening.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I'm not dating.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
No more dating In a perfect world.
What you want to do is if it'seven a two top, you know, like a
two person small dining angleyou want to sit perpendicular
right Because that creates anarea of intimacy, but yet you
still have your space.
So it allows you guys to beclose together if you want it to
(34:55):
be, and to lean in and you'renot against across from each
other.
So it creates this cozy,flirting vibe.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
It could you know, which is okay, I was telling
Rachel before we got on the callthat I was listening to a
podcast about behavior andphysical like how you, your body
language, and they were talkingabout bars.
Why bars have notoriously beensuch a good place to meet people
is because you have to moveinto their intimacy zone and you
(35:24):
have to talk closer andnormally you will never do that
in real life, only at a bar,because it's so loud and you're
like there and it kind of all ofa sudden you have to start
talking in a little moreintimate way and I thought that
was really interesting, like tothat moving in, you know circle,
absolutely and to touch uponthat, not only are you moving in
(35:45):
and you're in someone's space,but all your senses, right now
they're smelling you right asright, and that's, yeah, part of
it.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
It's, you know, the visual, the feel of being in
their space, how you smell.
All those senses come together.
What?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
about the kiss that you know, the classic kiss
before Like what is your adviceon the end of day kissing?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yeah, no, you know what I'm all about, that I'm
good with that.
If you're attracted to someoneand someone's attracted to you
and you want to go for a kiss,absolutely, why not.
What about more?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, absolutely, I make love.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I think the problem with intimacy and when it's
rushed is you don't get to knowthe person well enough, right?
And then the intimacy becomesthe driving force in the
relationship versus are we amatch, are we compatible?
Look, you're never going toknow if you're in a match with
(36:47):
someone within five dates, right.
So getting intimate withsomeone, like within a month, is
premature, I think you know,because really it takes time to
get to know someone meetingtheir friends, learning about
their family, what's theirlifestyle.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I'm.
I think intimacy and attractionis vital for a relationship,
but I think you just take itslow.
It's a marathon.
It doesn't have to.
There's no perk or benefit towinning the race.
There's only, there's onlynegative that comes with that.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I'm sure that we could ask you a million
questions, but I know we have towrap up.
But normally we wrap up withasking you what you love about
New Jersey.
But I would love to know whatyou think are great places for
couples to go in New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
And I want to touch upon one other thing, if you
don't mind.
Yes, please.
You know, I think one of theobstacles somebody in New Jersey
may have and I totallyunderstand it is there's this
bridge and tunnel between NewJersey.
Right, yeah, it comes with alot of expense and exhaustion
(38:06):
and parking and all thosedifferent things.
But when I met my husband, helived in Jersey city and I the
Upper West side and frankly, Ithink there were a million girls
that said no to him because helived in Jersey.
Right, you were like is at thetime.
This is a long time ago.
People know Jersey city.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, I mean, I would have said no, I mean it's just
because you're just like it's.
It's just because you're justlike it's, like he's living in a
totally different life.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
A totally different country.
It's like New Jersey and Iwould encourage people like I
get it, but you just never knowwhat may be across the Hudson.
You know, uptown to downtown isprobably a longer distance than
midtown to Jersey City orHoboken Totally is Anywhere else
.
Yeah, keep that in.
Anywhere else.
Yeah, keep that in mind becauseyou never know and it's so hard
(38:59):
to meet someone that's reallygreat and quality person and
don't, you know, disregardsomeone based on geography alone
.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Well, to that point, you're located both in New York
and New Jersey.
You have you cover bothlocations.
Have you ever had the reversehappen, where a New Jersey
person ends up moving to NewYork, like you know what?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
And we get people who New Jersey don't want to date
New York, new York don't want todate New Jersey, connecticut.
You know we service the NewYork metro.
I can totally appreciate ifsomeone says look, I'm a city
person, I am never leaving NewYork metro.
I can totally appreciate ifsomeone says look, I'm a city
person, I ain't never leavingNew.
York, I am here forever.
Well, guess what?
We're not going to set them upwith someone who likes the
country or who likes suburbiaand green past and all of that,
(39:43):
but if really the driving forceis to meet a quality person with
the same values, who wants thesame lifestyle, then who cares?
You know someone can move,that's the easy part.
You know it's like hours away,it's like 40 minutes.
You know you can make this workand it's temporary until you
guys develop your figure out.
Yeah, and to answer yourquestion, going back to what are
(40:05):
some of my favorite places fordates, well, I happen to live in
North Jersey, so I'm a hugeoutdoor person and I love being
active.
So like hiking RamapoReservation, or you know there's
so many great music venues.
You know seeing outdoorconcerts or even indoor concerts
(40:26):
.
You know listening to music,although it's hard to get to
know someone right.
But if you maybe have somethingbefore and then we'll hear music
together if you both like music.
Of course, in the summer thebeach is always fun, but that's
a little later, once you'redating and everything.
There's so many fun things todo.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Great, thank you so much.
We'll talk soon.
Bye, okay, bye-bye.
This, we'll talk soon.
Bye, okay, bye.
This podcast is produced byRachel Martens and Jeanette
Afsharian.
Please follow us on Facebookand Instagram.
We hope you share this pod withyour friends and family and let
us know what you think.
Check out our website atlostinjerseysite and don't
(41:08):
forget to get lost.
Hello Rachel, hey Jeanette, so we just did our
Valentine's episode.
We interviewed a matchmaker.
So let's just Ah, it was so fun, it was fun she was terrific.
Michelle Frankel is her nameMichelle Frankel yes, and before
we introduce her, I wanna knowhow you met your match.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Ah, yes, we shall share this.
I will give you the condensedversion.
Give me the two second one.
Yes, we shall share this.
I will give you the condensedversion.
Give me the two second one.
Bill and I met in college in anelevator.
I knew that, however, we didnot date.
We were somewhat friends, butwe had much more friends in
common.
But we both remember theelevator meeting.
It was pretty indelible.
(00:42):
Years later I go to visit myfriend Christine in the
Philippines because I'm having amental breakdown.
Being a management consultantin New York City and having to
wear sheer hose, it was killingme.
So she says, just save moneyfrom your great job and get your
butt to the Philippines.
So I said okay.
(01:02):
And then, once we were there,she said hey, do you remember
this guy, bill Martens?
He's a journalist in Thailand.
Let's go visit him.
It's like a hop, skip and ajump.
So we remet in Thailand, camehome.
He still lived there.
Years go by.
Finally we're in the same cityand we keep running into each
other and we keep loving runninginto each other.
(01:23):
And there you have into eachother.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And there you have it , and I love bill and you.
Together it's a greatrelationship and you have
created an incredible familywith three incredible girls.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So that was a perfectly wonderful match okay,
tell us about roger.
I don't know how to tell it umbecause it has a two.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
It has a two-parter.
Yeah, I had uh put an ad in athe austin chronicle which at
that time there was no, you know, tech was just kind of a thing.
I remember right, yeah and um,it said pretty persian seeking
fun smart person to hang outwith right and I should just
call you pretty persian I.
(02:03):
It was so ridiculous when Ithink about it and I remember it
was funny because they wouldleave messages.
This was, like you know, the ohright, you leave a voicemail,
yeah and I lived in my apartmentin Austin and I would call my
sister and we would listen tothem and we would be like, oh my
god, this is nuts right.
So, so good.
We did this and I went on a fewof those dates and I absolutely
was like I, I think I went onthree.
(02:24):
One guy I kind of like did hangout with a little and did like
him.
He was a super techie guy andhe was like from Carnegie Mellon
and I was like dude, I don'teven know why I'm hanging out
with you, but I liked him.
But the others all just wantedto hook up and they grossed me
out so bad they're like you're apretty person, I know I was
like I guess I shouldn't haveput that.
(02:44):
And they were all actuallyMiddle Eastern, which was really
obvious, clearly.
Anyway, I was like I abandonedthat and then just went along my
merry way.
And then one day at work therewas a cute guy that I kept
seeing, had very long hair andhe was incredibly hot.
Right, he would hang out andsmoke, he'd take smoke breaks
(03:06):
and I'd be coming in and goingwhatever.
And then finally one day I waslike coming in and I went up to
him while he was out in frontand I was like, hey, can I bum a
cigarette?
And he was like sure, and wesat down and we started talking
and I was like I saw he had anAllah on a pendant on his neck
(03:28):
and I said, is that an Allah?
And he's like, yeah, he's likeI'm Iranian.
And I was like, oh my god, I'mIranian too.
And then he's like, well, I'mjust half, I go, I'm half too.
That's it.
We've been together for 30years made in heaven.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, it's amazing it is such a great story and it's
crazy what you guys have incommon.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh so crazy it's wild yeah, it's nuts like his sister
mary, my sister maria.
They're both older, they'reboth very similar and they're
like extroverted yes, we'reintrovertedious.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
We're introverted, dark.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
They both have blonde , my sister's blonde, his
sister's got incredible red hairand we're both dark and, like
you know, oh my gosh, and nowyou have two beautiful sons.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's wild.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So enough about us.
Let's talk about Michelle.
Michelle is an incrediblematchmaker and she takes us
through how she got intomatchmaking and gives us some
tips on what the modern world islike in getting dates and going
on dates, and she also promotesonline dating in addition to
what she is in person type ofmatchmaker what is it?
(04:45):
Called A concierge type ofdating.
Yeah Well.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I think what's great, too, is because of her
background she's a lawyer andshe's also done marketing for
law firms.
She really helps you look atyourself and see how best to
present yourself, whether it'son the online dating apps or in
person on a date.
We learned a lot about dating,flirting, how it's different
(05:09):
today versus what it used to belike, but also people are just
looking for love andrelationships, so she's helping
you find one.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, so whether you're looking for someone or
you're just, you know, want tobe equipped with telling your
friend what they should andshould not do or who they can go
to take a listen.
This is a great, greatinterview.
Happy Valentine's week.
Happy Valentine's, Michelle.
So nice to have you on the show.
(05:38):
Thank you for joining us for aValentine's episode.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Thank you so much for having me today, and I know so
many of our listeners will be soexcited to hear your valuable
tips and tricks and then, ifthey're getting back into the
dating game, that they can reachout because you're in New
Jersey and in New York City.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So yeah, before we get into the nitty gritty of how
to find your maid and howthings have changed in online
versus in person, we want to getyour background.
How did you get involved inmatchmaking?
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So I had been a professional matchmaker now for
over 15 years and very fewpeople can say what do you do
for a living?
I make love for a living, oh myGod.
So my trajectory is that I waspracticing law no-transcript,
(06:50):
still together 15 years laterand once that happened, I got so
much joy from changingsomeone's life that I was like
you know what this law thing?
So I decided to trade in thelaw for love and do mergers of
another kind.
And here I am, 10 years later,still doing it.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
That's so amazing, Rachel.
Have you ever matched upsomebody in your life?
I did, but it was an accident.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Did it work, did it work, they're still together.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
See, I've done it.
I've done it twice and it wasso stressful because it didn't
work.
And one was with one of my, anattorney of mine, and with
somebody that I had met overvacation, and it didn't work out
and I was like, oh my God, Ireally can never do this.
So there is a, there is a skillyou know to knowing how to
match people up.
(07:40):
So I'm impressed that you havethat and you move forward with
it.
So okay, so you decided tostart matchmaking.
Did it start with all personal,like in person?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, did you sort of like like old school Yenta,
like, did you figure out whoknew who or who?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, Well, I guess I had a little headstart because
I had recently gotten married,but prior to that I was dating
like a sport.
I mean, I had two dates a day,I had such a Rolodex of
individuals and I had such ahuge network of single people
that I had a really good headstart.
(08:18):
And with that, once I startedspreading the word, people
started coming to me and,honestly, I started with a cell
phone 15 years ago, a flip phone, yeah, a business card, and I
haven't had a slow day eversince.
Now my team is six individuals.
It's not me alone doing themagic.
I have six people on my teamand we keep pretty busy.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Wow.
You know, we both said wowbecause I think, yeah, because
it's like it's such a thing nowonline dating, right and but
everybody knows that there hasbeen a tradition through all of
time of there being somebodythat's known as the matchmaker.
Either they're doingastrological matchmaking, which
is really common I think inIndia they do a lot of that type
(09:05):
of, you know, type ofmatchmaking or families with
families.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Things like that.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You know it's cultural or religious
matchmaking.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, or kings with princes, that whole historical
thing.
You got to marry within thefamily thing.
You got to marry within thefamily.
But it's changed so much nowthat it's really so much based
on what you think you want.
And you go online and you'reswiping right, swiping left, you
know, and doing it like that,how do you, how do you like?
(09:39):
I'm sure you get a lot ofpeople coming to you that have
done that and what do they say?
Why are they giving up on that?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Sure.
So I'm a huge proponent ofonline dating, even though you
would think I wouldn't be,because it's like almost the
competition, but it's actually.
If done right and that's thekey term right.
You have to date smart, and ifyou utilize the platform in a
smart, productive capacity, itcould absolutely be a useful
(10:06):
tool.
That being said, so many peoplecome to us and say you know,
I'm emotionally exhausted.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah, just before this, I spoke to someone I
didn't even know this existed,but a client I was speaking to
had told me he has some kind ofapp that auto swipes for him.
This is the first time.
What about this?
He goes I've swiped on everyonein Long Island from you know,
and I'm like what?
There's a that does that?
(10:34):
Right?
So a lot of people come to usemotionally exhausted and and
they are emotionally exhaustedfrom online dating because not
always are people's profilesaccurate right, yes, the
pictures are 10 years old.
People aren't actually alwaysgenuine and authentic and
(10:57):
stating the truth, whetherthey're really divorced or just
separated, and it's a marketingpiece.
People are putting their bestfoot forward and you're not
getting to the true values ofsomeone.
I mean relationships,successful relationships are
based on similar ideologies,similar values, ways of
(11:19):
communication and lifestyles.
Right, it's so funny.
So many people come to me andthey're like, oh, I want someone
who likes camping or playtennis.
I was like, why does thatmatter?
Like, that's the issue.
You can always find apickleball player.
You know a friend?
Yeah, really, finding someonewho can be with you through
tough times, who can communicatewell, who you know has the same
(11:44):
values, wants the same thingsout of life.
So, going back to your originalquestion, people get so
emotionally drained andexhausted from swiping and,
frankly, people aren't veryrespectful when they do online
dating right, because there'snot a connection, it's like
through a barrier, whether it'syour phone or the computer, and
(12:06):
they don't feel the need to berespectful and realize that
there's another person on theother end.
It's really sad.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You know how people treat each other online
sometimes they're a little moreserious about finding a real
permanent match or something youknow, really going there
because it's more yeah.
Online's more like sampling.
Like what am I like?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Do people like me?
So online dating is almost anego affirmation, right, people
are hoping to get that ego buzzand some of it's just that like
they want to keep on swipe.
How many yeses can I get?
Yeah, yeah, when people come tous, they date with intention.
Right, it's not that they.
You know.
The biggest misconception ispeople are like oh, people go to
a matchmaker, need help.
No, we work with CEOs, we workwith celebrities who would think
that would have a mile longlist of people.
(13:01):
But no, it's people who arelike I want to date with
intention.
I don't have that much freetime.
The free time I do have, I wantto put it toward working out my
friends, my family, otherthings.
I want to cut through all thenoise and I want to optimize the
chance of success.
And by working with you andyour team, I'm able to do that
(13:24):
because, basically, we dateeverybody before our clients
date them.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Exactly so you get to really meet them and understand
their goals and theirpersonality.
I wanted to ask about that Doyou find that a large percentage
of your clientele come to youand they tell you what they want
, but maybe they don't reallyknow what they want or they're
not 100% self-aware, right?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Absolutely all the time, and so it's our job as
matchmakers and this is wheretransferable skills from being a
lawyer really assists me is toask those follow-up questions
and like, for instance, here's agreat example.
Someone will say I need someonewho has a graduate degree, just
like I do.
Right, I'm like really why?
(14:13):
Like why you know, zuckerbergdidn't even graduate college,
neither did Gates.
Like, why do you need agraduate degree?
And they're like well, becausethen I know they're ambitious.
Well, can someone be ambitiousand not're successful?
And they have a successfulcompany and they only have an
undergraduate, how are they notsuccessful?
(14:33):
Oh, you're right.
Well, maybe they don't have tohave a graduate degree, or maybe
they don't have to have gone toan Ivy League college.
And it's really asking thosefollow-up questions and finding
out what is the value that is soimportant to them.
And most of those cases takingfor example this graduate degree
criteria they, the individuals,generally want to see that
(14:57):
someone can complete something,that they started something and
finish something.
So if you can show that inanother avenue, then yes, it's
the same thing.
Or if you can show someone isambitious or driven, it's the
same value.
They don't actually need agraduate degree to show those
values need a graduate degree toshow those values.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Okay, so this is why I'm not a good matchmaker,
because I would say, yeah, youclearly need.
You're completely wrong.
First of all, I'd be likethinking that in my head, right,
and then I'd be like, well, butyeah, you need to be with
someone that has a graduatedegree, because you're going to
always think you're superior ifthey don't right.
That's why I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You can help people sort of craft their message
right, Like if a client comes toyou and says I am looking for,
you know, a partner.
I don't know why I've had allthese bad dates and I don't know
what I how am I going to getwhat I want?
And then do you say like well,how do you think you present?
I know you do give tips on likeyeah, exactly, hair makeup
(16:01):
clothes absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
We do give tips and we have a big range of
partnerships with experts inthose different areas.
You know stylists and makeupartists and all of that.
But we also do something that'sfascinating called a mock date,
where we put someone on a datewith someone you know who is
connected to our industry, goeson a date and they may or may
(16:24):
not know it's a mock date, butthe real point of it is
afterwards.
We're getting all that feedbackright, and not only on how
they're presenting themselves,because it's not all that
different from going on a jobinterview.
You know, the distinctionbetween a job interview and a
date is there's flirtinginvolved and it's more of an
emotional connection.
But you want to put your bestfoot forward.
(16:45):
So how are you presentingyourself?
You know what is theconversation, what questions are
you asking, and we're able toget that through these mock
dates and then do a coachingsession afterwards and say, okay
, let's break this down.
This is why you're not gettinga second date with the type of
person you want, because you'redoing X, y and Z.
Let's fix that.
(17:05):
And sometimes I tell peoplelook, this is just feedback.
You need to be authentic toyourself If you don't want to
change yourself, that is totallyfine.
I totally can appreciate that.
But if we're hearing it fromthree people, the same feedback,
it's no longer you know oneperson's opinion.
It's the perception you'regiving out there and just
(17:25):
realize the perception thatyou're putting out there.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Okay.
Well, what are some of thecommon mistakes that you see,
that are pretty across the board, that most people look, they're
clearly coming to you, theymight be all doing the same
thing, that you have to redirect.
And what is that redirection?
Well, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
What comes to mind On a first date?
No one likes to be interviewed,right?
The best dates don't feel likea job interview, right?
And it's not an exchange ofresumes, right?
Especially for those boss ladytypes, you know, those
overachievers.
It's really being in the moment, being present and simply
(18:13):
seeing how you feel and notthinking about the future.
Not thinking is this my futurepartner, is this my future
spouse?
Just how does this person makeme feel right now, right here,
right in this moment, and whatcan I learn interesting about
this person?
I think being in that moment isif you really can think about.
(18:34):
Stop thinking about the futureand just be in the moment.
Those are the best dates, when,at the end of the day, you
really have no idea anythingabout them except that you had a
good time.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I like that because that's so counterintuitive to
what I would have thought and Ithink a lot of people do is you
know?
You feel the need to get toknow them because it's the to
see if you should even go on thesecond date rather than
checking in and saying I feltgreat and we just had a fun time
.
I don't, we didn't.
That is actually how a lot ofpeople meet organically,
(19:06):
absolutely Right.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Absolutely.
What is that?
What is a common icebreaker orconversation starter that people
would use instead of saying sowhere'd you grow up?
Or you know, where'd you go toschool?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So one of my favorite questions for people to ask on
a date is that, of course,everyone asks about what do you
do for a living?
Tell me about your job.
I mean, how boring can you?
You know it's like, yeah, youknow, like who wants to talk
about work?
But also, if you could doanything for your career,
anything whatsoever, you had norestrictions, you didn't have to
(19:40):
worry about money, about timerestraints, your family, you
could do anything in the worldthat you wanted, what would you
do?
And all of a sudden, the reasonit's such a great question is
you see, people's eyes getreally excited, right, because
wheels start turning.
And all of a sudden you hearpeople say I'd be a woodworker,
(20:01):
woodworker, like, what it's like.
Well, and then and what's soamazing is it's like a rabbit
hole into a deeper emotionalconversation Well, I'd be like
when I was little, mygrandfather.
He used to take me out and wewould sit there and we made this
rocking chair together and it'sso special.
So you're really close to yourgrandfather, you know.
(20:22):
And all of a sudden you'reconnecting on an emotional level
and those are the dates thatmatter.
It's not the exchange ofresumes, it's really connecting
deeper.
It's like an understanding thatyou know and other people.
I'd love to be a pastry chef.
Tell me about that.
Why, well, I'd love to be apastry chef?
(20:43):
Tell me about that.
Why, well, I love cooking andI'm not really good at it, but
I'm really up for anything and Iwould try.
And you know it leads to ideasof maybe our next date should be
going to, you know, somecooking school together and it
just it's fun.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Right, it's bringing the fun back into a date.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, that leads me to where should this date be,
should you?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
do coffee.
You know I would stay away fromlong drawn-out dinners, that's
not.
You want to do a three-hourdinner, even if you're older I
know it's traditional and youwant someone to take you out to
dinner.
You know you want to stay awayfrom being across from someone
for like two and a half hours,right, yeah, the number one
thing, again, great tip is youshould do an activity.
(21:24):
Okay, like, for instance, myhusband and my first date was a
walk through Central Park, andhe didn't realize this, but in
essence he was walking me homewhen I was a lawyer.
He was walking me from my lawoffice across Central Park to
the other side, where you knowmy condo was.
And during our walk throughCentral Park there was so much
(21:47):
stimulus and people watchingthat we were able to have fun
with like roller bladers infront of people in Central Park
and looking and talking aboutdifferent things.
It was so relaxing and I thinkjust when you're moving you're
relaxed, right, there's not thistension and this.
You're just at ease.
So by being relaxed, I think itis such a great way and even
(22:10):
with my husband, I had no ideaat the end of the night anything
about him, except that it was anice walk, I love that I love
that and I can see that too,because you don't have to stare
at each other.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You can walk forward.
You can, you know, laugh aboutcertain things.
I love that idea of going for awalk.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It reminds me also with kids, because we have kids
that sometimes they share themost intimate things.
When you're in the car,nobody's looking at each other,
you're just looking forward,exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Exactly, and so, whether it's a walk or even
something like playing pool oryou know billiards or you know
pong, I know there's placescalled ping pong, pickleball,
like Lifetime.
Jim and I have partnered up twotimes or three times already.
We do these pickleball events,which are so great because
you're moving, you're flirting,you're being active, so doing
(23:01):
anything that's active and funoutdoors.
I'm a huge fan of so all right.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So what next?
So should we talk about how welook?
I mean, like you said that youdo like maybe makeovers or
something like that.
Is that you know?
What do you suggest on that?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
So the number one thing we do is also we get make
sure everyone has great photosright.
Having great photos are soessential for dating for three
reasons.
One for online dating, you needgreat photos and let me tell
you I've reviewed thousands uponthousands, probably 10,000,
profiles.
People do not put great photosof themselves right.
(23:37):
It's either with like 10 girlshow do I know which one is you?
What picture of food you know?
With 10 animals.
Like it really should just beof yourself.
Maybe one picture of you andyour dog is fine, but it really
should just be a great face shot, a great body shot and you
doing something that can start aconversation, something that is
(24:00):
active.
So when people come to us, wemake sure we have a great photo
shoot done for them.
They can use both for onlinedating that anytime a friend or
family member says, hey, I havesomeone for you, they could say
here, here's my photo, send itto them.
So it's almost their stopdating photo that they could
forward.
Here, here's my photo, send itto them, so it's almost their
stop dating photo that theycould forward to anybody who
(24:22):
might have someone that wants tosee a photo of them.
And also for social media andalso for with us, even in you
know, we have a complimentarydatabase that anyone is free to
join.
We have probably 20,000 singlesin there, if not more.
Whoa, yeah, it's crazy andhaving you know, everyone
(24:42):
uploads their photo.
No one sees it but me and myteam.
But having the best photo ofyourself is really important
because when we do a search, thephotos that stand out are the
people we're going to reach outto for our clients Right, and
definitely you'd be drawn to amore professional photo that's
good lighting and just clearExactly.
You know you don't want a DMVphoto, you don't want it so
(25:04):
staged, you want it lifestyleand you want a great background
where it could be a food cart ora brick wall or a construction
site.
But you want someone who knowshow to use the camera and gets
the best version of you, and nota selfie.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
What is the number of dates that most people go out
on before they either say I'mjust going to try on my own, or
they find somebody that they'regoing to, you know, spend some
time with, and not date anymore?
What is the common number ofdates?
I wish I had that magic number.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Sometimes we nail it on the first session which
shocked me.
That would be so shocking Meand my team too.
Like we're like wow, whichshocked me, that would be so
shocking.
We my team too like we're likewow, we're good.
Wow, we worked with a clientlast month and it was one and
done.
And again, that was shocking tous and isn't typical.
But after each introduction, wethe client and our team we get
(25:56):
back together and we getfeedback after the date right,
both from the client and thedate, which is so insightful
because we're finding out howthey're being perceived and,
more importantly, about ourclient was this the right match
and why or why not?
And getting that feedbackallows us and the team to
recalibrate our search and getcloser and closer to their
target and allows gives us suchgreat insight on what works and
(26:20):
what doesn't work.
So by doing that we're able toreally hone in.
But generally speaking, withinfour introductions, five
introductions, we get over 75%of our clients in relationships.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I mean, do you ever find that sometimes, when you do
the debrief with both of thedates, that one person really
liked the other person and theother did not at all Like?
Does that ever happen, and howdo you handle that?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I know.
What's more shocking was whentwo people were like the best,
like one person's like that wasthe best date of my life, and
the other person was like Inever want to see that person
again.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Oh, my God, I'm sure that actually happens a lot.
I was listening to somesomething on TikTok of a radio
call in thing where this onewoman just thought this date
went so well and the other guystarted to think that she was a
stalker because you know shejust wouldn't let it go Like.
She knows.
You know it was the best datewe ever had.
He was like look, so I imaginepeople get different messages
(27:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
And usually when that happens, you know the feedback
is very insightful from theperson who didn't have the good
date Right.
And also we have to peel thelayers.
Was alcohol involved?
Yeah exactly why was such agreat date to the person that
thought it was such a great date?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Very good point.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So do you sometimes.
You must sometimes feel like atherapist.
I mean, when people are reallytrying to figure out how they
come across, that's a lot,that's vulnerable, and then you
know who they're looking for.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Absolutely.
You know I have a law degree,but I feel like I've earned a
PhD in psychology yeah, years ofthis.
You know, in order for us to besuccessful, the more open and
the more vulnerable somebody is,which, amazingly, most people
are very open and vulnerable tous because they're coming to us,
(28:18):
they're ready, you know,they're ready to meet their
person and what they're doingisn't working and they're like
okay, I've tried, it's notgetting me to my goal, help me.
Everything that we unpack theirpast relationship history,
what's gone wrong?
And, amazingly enough, peoplehave a type right.
(28:39):
If you write down all your pastrelationship histories, they're
definitely generally a theme.
They may look a littledifferent, but there is a theme
of the type of person someone'sattracted to.
And when it doesn't work, overand over again, you know that's
where we come in and we're likeokay, you may like this type of
person, but it's not working foryou.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Right, but that type is not good for you.
Try something else here youknow yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, well, recently I watched Later Daters, which is
a Netflix series that was aboutpeople dating when they're
getting back into the datingworld after 50, I think it was,
and it was very fascinating.
It was really actually verygood.
But and it was interesting thata lot of people have old, you
know, ideas of chivalry andthings like that and changing.
(29:27):
Are there some antiquatedthings, like especially for
Valentine's Day, like flowersand chocolate and things like
that Should we avoid?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
certain things.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
What's the modern way .
What's the?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
modern.
So I think there's a lot ofpressure around these Hallmark
holidays, right, like, yes, I'ma matchmaker, that's what I do.
Love my products, hope and love.
Right, and Valentine's Day andmatchmaking days like my
holidays.
However, that being said, everyday should be Valentine's Day
when you're dating and like onsome level, meaning there should
(30:11):
always be that kindness, thatthinking about somebody else.
You know, to feel the pressureto do something over the top
because it's Valentine's Day, Ifeel puts too much pressure,
especially on new relationships,right, yeah.
So I just say keep it simple.
Valentine's Day, I feel, putstoo much pressure, especially on
new relationships, right, yeah.
So I just say keep it simple.
You know, do some you know ifit's a first or second date,
acknowledge the holiday, youknow, make a joke about it.
You know, kind of like, takethe elephant out of the room,
maybe bring them something small, like you can't get in trouble
(30:31):
for doing something thoughtful,right, right.
But at the same time, if you dotoo much, then it's
overwhelming, it's overwhelming,it scares the person off, and
then they're too easy.
They liked me too much.
There's all of those challenges.
Just a simple acknowledgementand a small gesture is more than
(30:52):
enough.
Is that a small gesture ofbringing flowers still a thing
you know I mean, you know, ifit's first or second date, I
definitely would not probablybring a bouquet maybe even just
more personal, like maybesomething, if they had said
Reese's peanut butter cups aremy favorite, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, something like that.
That's mine who doesn't likechocolate and peanut butter, and
bringing a Reese's peanutbutter cup, yeah, with, like a
ribbon on it.
It would be so sweet that wouldbe perfect.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, I've heard you, I'm listening to you.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
These are good tips, just for relationships.
I think I might have to tell myhusband, bill, excuse me, I
need some.
Reese's.
I need Reese's wrap.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Going back to online dating, because we're on the
Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
Yeah, I'll give another tip toyour listeners.
Yeah, one of the best thingsyou could do for online dating
is actually put something inthere that allows your potential
partner or date to do somethingthat's romantic or chivalrous,
and by that you know.
I actually met my husbandonline and in my profile and
this is going back 14, 15 yearsit said I never want to turn
(32:20):
down a Reese's peanut butter cup.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
And that's such a good tip, because you're helping
them, you know, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Right, yeah, right yeah, and I had a freezer of all
the dirt, recent.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I mean, it was almost like if you don't bring me one,
you fail because you're notreading.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like it's an easyout, like okay, now you clearly
did not take it.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Really read my bio, yeah right, all you have to go
to cbs, spend a dollar and getme a recent sweet and butter cup
and you're already winning youknow?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, that's perfect.
When you were creating yourprofile online, were you aware
of most of the things that yougive advice on now, or were you
still learning?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
yourself.
You know what my background is,also marketing.
I transitioned from being alawyer into being the director
of marketing and running the lawfirms, so I had that marketing
background and so I understoodit's almost like a MLS ad right
Multi-service.
You want to put the bestpictures forward and you want to
(33:29):
be optimistic and authentic andflirty, and so I had some but
not nearly as much advice andguidance as I do 15 years into.
This is what I do every day,all day, right.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
How do you give advice on flirting?
I was curious about that.
That's a good question.
What's a tip you would givesomeone who's out of practice
from flirting?
Speaker 3 (33:57):
So and this is especially true, I think, for
the 40, 50, 60s crowd when yougo to a restaurant, if at all
possible, you never want to sitacross from somebody, right,
sitting directly across fromsomebody is an interview.
(34:17):
It's confrontational in someaspects.
Right, there's so much spaceand it's comfortable.
You don't want to sit on thesame side either.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Okay, I was like I'm not sitting on the same side.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Weird.
I saw Jeanette's face I waslike that's not happening.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I'm not dating.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
No more dating In a perfect world.
What you want to do is if it'seven a two top, you know, like a
two person small dining angleyou want to sit perpendicular
right Because that creates anarea of intimacy, but yet you
still have your space.
So it allows you guys to beclose together if you want it to
(34:55):
be, and to lean in and you'renot against across from each
other.
So it creates this cozy,flirting vibe.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
It could you know, which is okay, I was telling
Rachel before we got on the callthat I was listening to a
podcast about behavior andphysical like how you, your body
language, and they were talkingabout bars.
Why bars have notoriously beensuch a good place to meet people
is because you have to moveinto their intimacy zone and you
(35:24):
have to talk closer andnormally you will never do that
in real life, only at a bar,because it's so loud and you're
like there and it kind of all ofa sudden you have to start
talking in a little moreintimate way and I thought that
was really interesting, like tothat moving in, you know circle,
absolutely and to touch uponthat, not only are you moving in
(35:45):
and you're in someone's space,but all your senses, right now
they're smelling you right asright, and that's, yeah, part of
it.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
It's, you know, the visual, the feel of being in
their space, how you smell.
All those senses come together.
What?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
about the kiss that you know, the classic kiss
before Like what is your adviceon the end of day kissing?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yeah, no, you know what I'm all about, that I'm
good with that.
If you're attracted to someoneand someone's attracted to you
and you want to go for a kiss,absolutely, why not.
What about more?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, absolutely, I make love.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I think the problem with intimacy and when it's
rushed is you don't get to knowthe person well enough, right?
And then the intimacy becomesthe driving force in the
relationship versus are we amatch, are we compatible?
Look, you're never going toknow if you're in a match with
(36:47):
someone within five dates, right.
So getting intimate withsomeone, like within a month, is
premature, I think you know,because really it takes time to
get to know someone meetingtheir friends, learning about
their family, what's theirlifestyle.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I'm.
I think intimacy and attractionis vital for a relationship,
but I think you just take itslow.
It's a marathon.
It doesn't have to.
There's no perk or benefit towinning the race.
There's only, there's onlynegative that comes with that.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I'm sure that we could ask you a million
questions, but I know we have towrap up.
But normally we wrap up withasking you what you love about
New Jersey.
But I would love to know whatyou think are great places for
couples to go in New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
And I want to touch upon one other thing, if you
don't mind.
Yes, please.
You know, I think one of theobstacles somebody in New Jersey
may have and I totallyunderstand it is there's this
bridge and tunnel between NewJersey.
Right, yeah, it comes with alot of expense and exhaustion
(38:06):
and parking and all thosedifferent things.
But when I met my husband, helived in Jersey city and I the
Upper West side and frankly, Ithink there were a million girls
that said no to him because helived in Jersey.
Right, you were like is at thetime.
This is a long time ago.
People know Jersey city.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, I mean, I would have said no, I mean it's just
because you're just like it's.
It's just because you're justlike it's, like he's living in a
totally different life.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
A totally different country.
It's like New Jersey and Iwould encourage people like I
get it, but you just never knowwhat may be across the Hudson.
You know, uptown to downtown isprobably a longer distance than
midtown to Jersey City orHoboken Totally is Anywhere else
.
Yeah, keep that in.
Anywhere else.
Yeah, keep that in mind becauseyou never know and it's so hard
(38:59):
to meet someone that's reallygreat and quality person and
don't, you know, disregardsomeone based on geography alone
.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Well, to that point, you're located both in New York
and New Jersey.
You have you cover bothlocations.
Have you ever had the reversehappen, where a New Jersey
person ends up moving to NewYork, like you know what?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
And we get people who New Jersey don't want to date
New York, new York don't want todate New Jersey, connecticut.
You know we service the NewYork metro.
I can totally appreciate ifsomeone says look, I'm a city
person, I am never leaving NewYork metro.
I can totally appreciate ifsomeone says look, I'm a city
person, I ain't never leavingNew.
York, I am here forever.
Well, guess what?
We're not going to set them upwith someone who likes the
country or who likes suburbiaand green past and all of that,
(39:43):
but if really the driving forceis to meet a quality person with
the same values, who wants thesame lifestyle, then who cares?
You know someone can move,that's the easy part.
You know it's like hours away,it's like 40 minutes.
You know you can make this workand it's temporary until you
guys develop your figure out.
Yeah, and to answer yourquestion, going back to what are
(40:05):
some of my favorite places fordates, well, I happen to live in
North Jersey, so I'm a hugeoutdoor person and I love being
active.
So like hiking RamapoReservation, or you know there's
so many great music venues.
You know seeing outdoorconcerts or even indoor concerts
(40:26):
.
You know listening to music,although it's hard to get to
know someone right.
But if you maybe have somethingbefore and then we'll hear music
together if you both like music.
Of course, in the summer thebeach is always fun, but that's
a little later, once you'redating and everything.
There's so many fun things todo.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Great, thank you so much.
We'll talk soon.
Bye, okay, bye-bye.
This, we'll talk soon.
Bye, okay, bye.
This podcast is produced byRachel Martens and Jeanette
Afsharian.
Please follow us on Facebookand Instagram.
We hope you share this pod withyour friends and family and let
us know what you think.
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(41:08):
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