May 20, 2025 • 25 mins
The surprising power of a camera to tell stories and to connect you and us to the community. We sit down with Montclair photographer Armando "Out There" Diaz to discuss his recent proclamation award from Mayor Renee Baskerville and his journey as a community documentarian. Through his powerful photography, Armando captures the essence of Montclair's Fourth Ward and diverse communities that are often overlooked.
• Armando shares how photography became his path back to social connection after struggling with mental health issues and isolation
• Using his camera to observe and gradually reconnect with his community
• Transitioning from graphic design and music production to photography
• Creating art exhibits that intentionally bring together diverse people and energies
• Focusing on documenting musicians, community events, and everyday life in Montclair
Visit Armando's current photography exhibit, which is running until the end of the month!
Armando "Out There" Diaz Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Rachel, hey Jeanette, we just got off a
great interview with Armando Outthere Diaz, One of his monikers
is Out there and it's alsoanother one which we didn't ask
him about, but I remember seeingit everywhere is e-gullets, in
that it is everybody's got alittle light under the sun,
great and he was recently givena proclamation award from the
(00:24):
mayor of Montclair, ReneBaskerville.
And we talk about it in theinterview, so I won't go over
the top line sentence.
But he's been recognized forall the work he does.
He's basically a communitydocumentarian is what it is
stated in the proclamation.
I can't say it correctly.
He documented all differentgroups of people and he's known
(00:44):
to you, know, you know, do AAPI,the Montclair Mutual Aid Out,
Montclair, Latinos of Montclairand also, specifically, the
Fourth Ward.
He likes to tell the story ofthe Fourth Ward of Montclair and
he's been here for so long.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
He grew up here and his family immigrated here from
Cuba, which we learn at the end,which he tells stick around to
the very end.
Stick around because it's veryinteresting to hear about that,
the last minutes of the episoderight.
I would say it's a veryheartfelt episode and he's very
open, honest and vulnerable andit shows in his work and we hope
(01:23):
you guys go out and see hiswork.
It's showing right now.
We'll put links in the shownotes to where you can go.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And learn how someone can use art to get themselves
back out into the community ifthey find themselves withdrawn,
disconnected, and one person'sstory how they used art to get
back into the world.
Yes, enjoy, armando.
(01:51):
Thank you for joining us onLost in Jersey.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
This is Rachel and I'm Jeanette, and you came on my
radar a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, it's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I've seen your photos posted and every time your
photo of you post a photo orsomeone post a photo that they
had taken of you taken by you,it's just, it has a lot of
meaning.
It has a lot a lot going on.
First, the photo is wonderful,but it's also the way that you
set the photo up and there'slike a story in all your photos.
You've got recognition from theof Montclair.
(02:25):
Rene Baskerville recently gaveyou a proclamation and we were
like, oh, we got to get him onand talk about that.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, that was something.
Yeah, I don't get awards oranything like that.
I don't know, not really at all.
I mean, I kind of, you know, Iget some recognition in some
ways, but never in such anofficial and meaningful way.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Can you explain a little bit more to our listeners
about what that is and what aproclamation from the town is?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So it's basically a document with a description of
who I am and what I'm doing, andI guess it's to specifically
recognize your contributions tothe community in whatever shape
that they take.
I mean, that's what I gatherfrom it.
I don't know if that's theofficial definition of it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Right, right, so I have it right here.
So let me tell people kind of aquick review of it.
Okay, so it's a Township ofMontclair, New Jersey.
Proclamation honoring ArmandoOut there Diaz, Jersey.
Proclamation honoring ArmandoOut there Diaz.
So you have this middle namecalled Out there that you use as
part of your handle on yoursocial medias and everything.
(03:32):
So it says whereas Armando Outthere Diaz has been a dedicated
resident of the township ofMontclair for 47 years and
throughout this time hascontributed immensely to the
artistic, cultural and civicfabric of our community.
And it goes on, my dog'sbarking.
So I bet you are blown away bygetting something like that.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, no, it's special.
I walk around town.
Most of the time that I've donethis, I mean, especially the
first four or five years Iwalked around with a camera and
you know, I got to know people,I got familiar with things like
that.
Do you guys remember MontclairCenter Stage?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
No, montclair Center Stage.
Yeah, I do, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So Saturday nights on Church Street, you know that's
the place where I learned toshoot and you know, basically it
was a lot of time of me walkingaround the neighborhood taking
pictures of people and nobodyhad any clue who I was, and
around the neighborhood takingpictures of people and nobody
had any clue who I was.
And I guess you know I was justa weird guy with a camera.
You know it's basically what Iwas for these first few years.
So so in a sense, like that,you know the proclamation, the
effect that it's having on me,is because eventually, when I
(04:35):
started to find, I guess,direction with with the shooting
community events and seeingthat kind of interaction and,
and you know, and MontclairCenter Stage being a major one,
I just kind of felt like, okay,this is my lane.
I mean, I was already shootingmusic and other things that come
from being a music producer anda DJ in my previous life.
(04:56):
So I was already shootingartists doing shows, things of
that nature.
But the fun started for me whenI started to do Montclair
Center Stage and for three yearsI shot for them and all that
branched out into othercommunity-related events and
before I knew it it was like Ikind of liked being able to show
that aspect of the peoplearound here Because, you know,
(05:17):
being from Montclair but goingeverywhere else, it's like the
perception people have ofMontclair.
All my life had Montclair.
It's like the perception peoplehave of Montclair all my life
had.
A Montclair Outside ofMontclair was.
You know basically that.
You know we all live onHighland Avenue and Upper
Mountain Avenue.
Like they think everybody'slike that the minute you say
you're from there.
So there's all these otherparts of town.
You know, and I'm from thefourth ward, that's why I'm down
(05:46):
here at Glenfield, because Ilive just around the corner from
here and I grew up watching alot of amazing things happen.
You know a lot of communityprograms and stuff when I was
younger, when I got the camera.
A lot of these people are stillaround.
A lot of them are still doingthese things.
So I would just startdocumenting stuff and nobody
asked me to mind you.
That's the funny part.
Like nobody asked me to do anyof that, it was just.
That's what I wanted to see.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, you know it's interesting about two things
that I want to point out is thatI feel like, with you have a
camera, it's kind of like a passto walk around and see things,
and we have a good friend,shonda Hall, who's a
photographer, and I see herwalking around with a camera,
that's my buddy.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, she's the one who told me about your work way
back when.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, yeah, she's the one who told me about your work
way back when, yeah, she can, Ifeel like she can pass through.
It seems like you know, oh,that must be official.
You know like something'shappening with that person.
Let them go through, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And a little bit of that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
A little bit of that.
But also looking at yourInstagram and your gallery and
everything, there's a huge artscene that you reveal.
You reveal a lot of artists, alot of musicians.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, my first, I guess, subject matter that I
favored when I was out in thestreet was the musicians that
were busking.
And a lot of that went on inChurch Street, south Park, down
towards Trend and various partsup and down the avenue.
Like you could walk up and downthe avenue and just bump into
all these people you knowmusicians otherwise really more
(07:15):
than just musicians just a lotof iconic Montclair
personalities that if you justspent an afternoon walking up
and down you get to see thesepeople Well.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I'm curious also has there been something along
you've been doing?
I was reading that you've beendoing this for 12 years.
I would imagine you've also.
I think that you work forSophia for 15 years, so you did
other things before.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You were a graphic artist and things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So I was around when Cynthia Walker founded the thing
and I was helping her at thetime with the logos and
materials and stuff.
I don't know if you know shedoes the Sophia Walk every
September.
So, it started with things likethat.
I had to make the flyer forthat and the poster for that and
(08:04):
stuff to go on the website, youknow, and this is yeah.
So this is what I did for herbefore a camera and I was doing
this kind of, as my main hustlefor a while is I was doing
graphic design.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Right, and then I saw that you had were written up in
I think it was 2001, that theydid a laundromat exhibit.
It's kind of when it started.
I saw you starting to come ontothe radar where they did an
exhibit down in the South Wardin a laundromat and I thought
that was so creative to start tointegrate the community and the
(08:35):
life of people within that.
Do you have, do you feel thatthere's a lot of that kind of
going on that most people don'tknow about in Montclair, Like
things like that?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Absolutely Even stuff that I don't know about,
because it's one of those kindof things like you have to know
somebody that goes to somethingor you have to come across it.
You know what I mean?
You can't do that.
You can't actually walk aroundand find yourself in an
environment where, oh, look atall these um poets or look at
all these musicians, they justthey're gathered in the space.
You don't know what's going onbut yeah, there's all kinds of
(09:06):
stuff going on, you know.
I mean, um, I'm not as active asI used to be, um, like I said,
because I literally would justget up for the first three years
I was shooting.
I would just get up and walkaround, you know, for a full day
and just you know, I wouldstart here.
I might end up walking down tothe stadium down there in Newark
, the baseball.
(09:28):
Is that the baseball stadium?
Like the near where the churchis down there in Bluffett Avenue
, Like if you're walking north.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
You'd walk from Montclair to there.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
All the time.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Oh my, yeah, all the time.
Walk from Montclair to thereAll the time.
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Good, how far is that ?
I gather it's probably aboutsix, seven miles, I don't.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's pretty good, that's pretty smart.
So you just walk your way thereand then pick up because I mean
, I noticed on your gallery ofphotos you have so much, so many
different locations.
You have New York City city,you have newark and you have
montclair and other areas.
Do you just?
Did you just start just goingto places and just taking photos
of what you saw?
Is that your pretty?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
much it.
Yeah, how did you?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
determine to like.
How do you choose where totravel to and what to focus on?
Is it it what you're feelinglike during that day, or is that
you want a collection or aseries of photos that expresses,
you know, a certain community?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
No, the funniest thing is, I never thought about
it that deeply.
It was more mood than anything.
The only things that I diddeliberately would be like going
to New York.
I would do deliberately becauseyou know, new York is, like you
know, the mecca of streetphotography and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So you know, going through your gallery of photos,
one of the things that I knowthat I had seen some of your own
personal videos talking aboutselling art and I think it's
hard to do, especiallyphotography.
It's like a hard industry, butso many of your photos, I think
are.
I would imagine them being onthe news.
Honestly, you know you'recovering demonstrations and very
(11:03):
unique exhibits.
You know people you know forthe Black Lives Matter or you
know any type of thing.
You're there and you capture somuch feeling in some of these
photos.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I feel like a lot of them have this fierce energy
that just leap out at you.
You can't not look.
I mean they're verywell-crafted.
Yeah, they hook you and youwant to know the story and it
doesn't even matter what thecontext.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But I give you at least why they like that Before
I was taking pictures, I had anassortment of mental health
issues, among other things, allkinds of stuff that I definitely
would.
I mean, I love talking about,but I don't want to darken this
interview by getting into allthat, suffice to say, there was
(11:53):
a period of time when I just Ididn't interact with people, not
so much antisocialsocial, it'sjust not social.
I was, I was hidden in, youknow.
I mean, I'm a graphic designer,I'm a music producer, I was
doing stuff for tv and film.
Everything I did, I did it outthe house, so I didn't have to
go anywhere, right?
So I didn't, I didn't reallyinteract too much, go to parties
(12:13):
, network, do this kind of stuff.
So I had not just just um, been,you know, in the dark, for that
, for that amount of time Ididn't have any, any connections
to anybody.
You know what I mean.
I went to family functions andthat's about it.
You know, the the friends Ihung out with were the very
close friends, but most peoplejust, I mean, I'm in this town
since 78.
And after a period of time,after high school, after you
(12:34):
know some time, nobody knew whoI was anymore, you know what I
mean, because the neighborhoodchanged and whatnot.
The thing about the way I'mtaking these pictures is that I
felt like I need to get backinto things, I need to start
communicating and stuff likethat.
But it was such an awkwardthing to do because you leave
high school and all this timegoes by and you don't feel
accomplished.
And then you got to run intoeverybody, you know, and
(13:00):
everybody's making moves anddoing things and I just felt
like I had nothing to offer theconversation so I would just sit
there, you know, really, really, really awkward, really
uncomfortable and not be able tocommunicate and didn't know
what to do with that.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know what I mean.
I just didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I wasn't enjoying anything, but what ended up
happening is is just takingpictures.
Allowed me to like what youwere saying.
This pass that you get when you, when you just walk into a
crowd full of people, and I havethe option of taking pictures,
because that's what I'm there todo, but I also have the option
of talking to people if I wantto, but if I don't, it's not
weird, right?
(13:29):
he's the camera guy, you know,so he doesn't have to talk, but
so I can get into a conversationI can enjoy, I can join a
conversation without saying aword and nobody's going to think
anything of it, and thisallowed me to kind of see where
people's heads are.
What are we talking about thesedays?
You know like what's the vibeand whatnot, and it did a lot to
help me.
You know, open upcommunications with people and
(13:51):
get out here and start doingsomething more productive.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
That's incredible.
Yeah, that's really aninteresting way that you found
to get out.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I'm sorry but that's why the pictures are emotional
or those kind of feelings,because I'm looking for that I'm
trying to communicate with you.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I really relate to and appreciate the light touch
that you're like.
I was disconnected and I foundmy way back through this medium
and it's such an impressive wayto take care of yourself.
I love that story that you'vetold there and I think that me,
being a graphic artist and alsoworking from home kind of like
(14:29):
you were since 1999, before itwas like the thing to do, and I
think it's important that we getthis message out to people that
, as people are becoming moreand more at home workers or, you
know, disconnected, that we doneed these type of ways to
connect back, because you dolose connection.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's the.
I didn't realize what I wasmissing until until, like I said
, it became obvious to me to bein spaces and going.
I don't know what's going onhere, I don't know how to talk
to these people and as theextent of my networking, when I
was doing graphic because I wasalso technically have been a
computer technician by tradethis is back in the 90s I went
to school for it and I went fromcomputers to music production
(15:13):
and making myself an artist,which led to me doing graphic
design, because I wanted topackage my own stuff and it was
expensive to hire somebody todesign your covers and all that
stuff.
And then I had to learn how todo web design because I needed
to get the music out to theworld.
So everything I learned Ilearned out of necessity and
prior to that it was all kind ofbasic you walk into a room, you
give somebody a card, hey, I'mso-and-so, I do this, and that
(15:43):
was sort of like the extent ofthe network and so it was like
it was simple, but it didn'tfoster any kind of connection to
anybody.
Now I wanted to have a broader,like a more, a deeper connection
with people, which is why I dothings the way that I do them
now, like there's nothing.
I mean, I guess the mostconventional my exhibit is is
that is that there's picturesthat you know in the the exhibit
, that you go to a place andlook at the stuff Like that's
conventional.
But most of what I'm doing outhere is about connecting people
(16:04):
and connecting to people andputting us together in a room,
especially if we're of the samesort of energy.
And one thing about having thiskind of energy or any for that
matter is like whatever yourenergy is, you can spot your
energy in the room when you walkin there.
If you see somebody else, youknow exactly who's on your
wavelength, who you could talkto.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So that's what my exhibits are about.
Yes, I would like to sell work.
I pay bills this way.
Yeah, luckily, I have eventphotography and other spinoffs
of that, so it's not like I'mjust a gallery artist.
Yeah, the main thing is to puta certain quality of people in
the room, you know, so thatpeople who are just there to see
the art experience a differentkind of energy than they're used
(16:47):
to.
It's not like going to thetypical exhibit, basically
curating that into a space inthe context of my art and
bringing people that I've cometo love.
They come to love me based onthis place that we are in our
heads.
Come to love me based on thisplace that we are in our heads.
I'm not the only one who'sawkward.
I'm not the only one who hadthe issues and whatnot.
(17:08):
I'm not the only person who'sactually used art to sort of
medicate in a way.
You know what I mean, and so Ibring these people together and
then the people who just come toan exhibit get to have an
entirely different experiencethan they were expecting.
You know what I mean.
So it's just like trying to tiethe humanity and people
together into a space where youknow where you're seeing
(17:31):
something that you knowrepresents, like my perspective
on the world.
It's a beautiful thing and youmay recognize yourself in this,
sometimes literally.
You know, I've had people walkinto the exhibit and see their
picture on the wall and they'relike whoa, like what are they?
You know, how did you do that.
I didn't know I was going to beon exhibit you know what I mean
Like my first exhibit atClaire's Story.
(17:52):
I did it intentionally.
I don't know if you rememberwhen Claire's Story was here on
Church Street.
Claire's Story Fine Art, no,art, no, no.
I don't remember that.
So that that's an important timein my life because I wanted to
be a gallery artist but I hadthe damnedest time trying to
talk to anybody about how to goabout it.
You know, you walk intoorganizations in town.
They don't treat you like likethey're interested at all, in,
(18:15):
in in this, in in the arts, inthe way you know.
It's just.
You know, do I, do you serve apurpose?
Are you somebody well-known orare you willing to pay to sort
of be involved in this thing?
You know, and that'sunfortunate, I get it, it's a
business model, it's a hustle,but getting into it was tough,
you know, because nobody gave methe time of day until I started
going to this gallery calledGallery L and there was a couple
(18:37):
there.
Luke and Lauren ran it.
They were artists themselvesand they specifically opened the
gallery because of that type ofenvironment.
So when I walked into them, Ijust walked into their
receptions and I would just takepictures.
They didn't ask me to be there,of course, you know, and I just
walked in, took pictures andafter about two or three
receptions I started gettingfollowed by Lady Catherine who
(18:59):
owned Claire's Story.
She followed my work for someperiod of time to when one
random like I think it was likeit might have been New Year's
Eve, it was like close to theend of the year, and I can't
tell you how low I was at thattime because there was so much
going on.
You know, she reaches out to meand she says listen, I'm
opening the gallery.
You know, and I've beenfollowing your work for X amount
(19:22):
of months I think she saidseven months or something like
that and she's like, would yoube interested in exhibiting?
You know, and I just thought,wow, that's crazy.
Like I'm minding my business.
I go around looking for this,like, hey, how can I get
involved in this?
And nobody's really pulling meany mind, and that's tough.
I mean.
I love that she didn't know mefrom anything.
All she knew was my work.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And that was enough.
We have to have that.
We have to have people that dothat, that are giving people a
chance their early start.
I think that our community andall of us and people can still
appreciate how talented you areand also now, having spoken to
you, understand the connectionthat we're getting from this,
(20:02):
what we're seeing, and I lovelearning that backstory, so we
really appreciate you coming onand giving us this.
You know behind the lens, lookat the heart and the mind behind
these photos.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Now I have two questions to ask you as we close
out.
Okay, One, is your hat now likepart of your style?
Because I looked for photos ofyou without your hat on and I
have not found one Good luck.
So I love that.
I love that you have like awhat do they call it?
You have like a signature itemnow Signature.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Look, yeah, they're funny.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But just two things about the hat.
One is that the original reasonI got the hat I started wearing
the hat was because mygranddaughter, on a whim, saw
one at the store.
She said I want to buy that forpop-up.
So she bought me this hat, likeit wasn't this one.
I have a bunch of them.
But she just came home one dayyou know what I'm saying With a
grandmother and said you know,your granddaughter bought you a
(20:55):
hat and I put it on.
I'm going you know what I don'tactually look.
I don't wear hats any.
I didn't used to wear hats thatlook crazy in them, in most of
them and so I said I don't, Ikind of look normal, I feel, I
feel okay in this hat and then,before I knew it, I was, I was
wearing them all the time.
The second reason is, you know,and the funnier reason is
because you know, I'm I mean,I'm 52.
I started wearing these a fewyears ago but my hairline has
(21:17):
long ago vanished, you know,from here and it's not so, and
it's not so many, it's not toomany options.
I'm not doing comb overs andand weird stuff like that.
It's like, you know, this partof my face looks pretty normal.
I said, let me do, let me just,you know, cover it up.
So so yeah, you'd be hardpressed to catch me without the
hat on because I got the most.
I got the like the GeorgeJefferson, george Constanza kind
(21:39):
of combination up here Like,like you know, you don't want to
look at that.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, it serves many purposes this hat and it looks
good.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Well, as we close out , we ask all of our guests to
give a shout out to a person,place or thing that they love
about New Jersey.
So we ask you I know it's goingto be hard for you, because of
all the things that youcelebrate and take photos of and
lift up, it'd be hard to pickone.
So what can you narrow it downto?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, no, yeah, that was absolutely tough, like I got
.
I have too many people that Icould possibly name, so I won't
even go there If I can get, if Ican get kind of sentimental in
a way.
Like my family is Cuba and theycame up to Cuba, weirdly, via
Chicago, into Newark and then upto Montclair and you know,
(22:29):
because of my father trying togo buy the house in Montclair
and everything he was working atFord at the time, I mean he
spent all this time.
He got up, you know, 4 o'clockin the morning and he wasn't
back home until 7 at night.
So there wasn't a whole lotthat we did together.
I mean almost nothing really.
But but two things that we didwas we had kind of like a game
(22:52):
night on Saturday where weplayed dominoes and and and and
put together puzzles.
But the other thing we didduring the summer would be we go
down to Sandy Hook.
So in terms of places that meansomething to me, like that's
literally the only thing we didas a family.
You know, outside the house wedidn't go to people's houses for
get-togethers or parties andnothing like that.
I mean we didn't know anybody.
You know, as far as my family.
You know, moving up here wedidn't socialize with other
(23:12):
families, yeah, but Sandy Hookwas, you know, my first
experience with the beach and itwas the one place we always
went me, my sister, um, mymother and father, a bag full of
hot dogs, uh, you know, somekind of soda and whatever, and
then we just sit there for hoursdigging up holes and and and
that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
so it's sandy hook, as as a place, actually means
something to me that's great Iwould have to say that might be
my favorite yeah thing I loveabout new jersey comment.
It was really it's got.
It's got so much heart and it'sjust got so much visual to it
as well with the bag of hot dogs.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I totally imagine it.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That's great Well thank you so much for sharing
that great story.
Towards the end of the podcast,I hope that we bump into you
somewhere in town in maybe oneof these cool things.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Hopefully at the exhibit which is up until the
end of the month.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Okay, great, perfect, give you a chance to actually
see some of this stuff in person.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And of course purchase something if you like,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's right.
Support the arts people.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well, we'll put the info about the exhibit also in
the show notes, so thateverybody who listens to this
can make sure that they can go.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And you have the flyer that I texted you last
week.
Who listens to this can makesure that they can go.
And you have the flyer that Itexted you last week.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I do, I do so.
We'll put that in there as well.
So that's great.
Well, thank you for coming onLost in Jersey.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
It's been a pleasure to meet you and learn about your
backstory.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
It's a great one, and also I hope you enjoy the Porch
Fest.
Yes, have fun at Porch Fest.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Good luck to your son's band.
Thanks so much, guys.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I appreciate it.
This podcast was produced byRachel Martens and Jeanette
Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Hi Rachel, hey Jeanette, we just got off a
great interview with Armando Outthere Diaz, One of his monikers
is Out there and it's alsoanother one which we didn't ask
him about, but I remember seeingit everywhere is e-gullets, in
that it is everybody's got alittle light under the sun,
great and he was recently givena proclamation award from the
(00:24):
mayor of Montclair, ReneBaskerville.
And we talk about it in theinterview, so I won't go over
the top line sentence.
But he's been recognized forall the work he does.
He's basically a communitydocumentarian is what it is
stated in the proclamation.
I can't say it correctly.
He documented all differentgroups of people and he's known
(00:44):
to you, know, you know, do AAPI,the Montclair Mutual Aid Out,
Montclair, Latinos of Montclairand also, specifically, the
Fourth Ward.
He likes to tell the story ofthe Fourth Ward of Montclair and
he's been here for so long.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
He grew up here and his family immigrated here from
Cuba, which we learn at the end,which he tells stick around to
the very end.
Stick around because it's veryinteresting to hear about that,
the last minutes of the episoderight.
I would say it's a veryheartfelt episode and he's very
open, honest and vulnerable andit shows in his work and we hope
(01:23):
you guys go out and see hiswork.
It's showing right now.
We'll put links in the shownotes to where you can go.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And learn how someone can use art to get themselves
back out into the community ifthey find themselves withdrawn,
disconnected, and one person'sstory how they used art to get
back into the world.
Yes, enjoy, armando.
(01:51):
Thank you for joining us onLost in Jersey.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
This is Rachel and I'm Jeanette, and you came on my
radar a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, it's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I've seen your photos posted and every time your
photo of you post a photo orsomeone post a photo that they
had taken of you taken by you,it's just, it has a lot of
meaning.
It has a lot a lot going on.
First, the photo is wonderful,but it's also the way that you
set the photo up and there'slike a story in all your photos.
You've got recognition from theof Montclair.
(02:25):
Rene Baskerville recently gaveyou a proclamation and we were
like, oh, we got to get him onand talk about that.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, that was something.
Yeah, I don't get awards oranything like that.
I don't know, not really at all.
I mean, I kind of, you know, Iget some recognition in some
ways, but never in such anofficial and meaningful way.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Can you explain a little bit more to our listeners
about what that is and what aproclamation from the town is?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So it's basically a document with a description of
who I am and what I'm doing, andI guess it's to specifically
recognize your contributions tothe community in whatever shape
that they take.
I mean, that's what I gatherfrom it.
I don't know if that's theofficial definition of it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Right, right, so I have it right here.
So let me tell people kind of aquick review of it.
Okay, so it's a Township ofMontclair, New Jersey.
Proclamation honoring ArmandoOut there Diaz, Jersey.
Proclamation honoring ArmandoOut there Diaz.
So you have this middle namecalled Out there that you use as
part of your handle on yoursocial medias and everything.
(03:32):
So it says whereas Armando Outthere Diaz has been a dedicated
resident of the township ofMontclair for 47 years and
throughout this time hascontributed immensely to the
artistic, cultural and civicfabric of our community.
And it goes on, my dog'sbarking.
So I bet you are blown away bygetting something like that.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, no, it's special.
I walk around town.
Most of the time that I've donethis, I mean, especially the
first four or five years Iwalked around with a camera and
you know, I got to know people,I got familiar with things like
that.
Do you guys remember MontclairCenter Stage?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
No, montclair Center Stage.
Yeah, I do, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So Saturday nights on Church Street, you know that's
the place where I learned toshoot and you know, basically it
was a lot of time of me walkingaround the neighborhood taking
pictures of people and nobodyhad any clue who I was, and
around the neighborhood takingpictures of people and nobody
had any clue who I was.
And I guess you know I was justa weird guy with a camera.
You know it's basically what Iwas for these first few years.
So so in a sense, like that,you know the proclamation, the
effect that it's having on me,is because eventually, when I
(04:35):
started to find, I guess,direction with with the shooting
community events and seeingthat kind of interaction and,
and you know, and MontclairCenter Stage being a major one,
I just kind of felt like, okay,this is my lane.
I mean, I was already shootingmusic and other things that come
from being a music producer anda DJ in my previous life.
(04:56):
So I was already shootingartists doing shows, things of
that nature.
But the fun started for me whenI started to do Montclair
Center Stage and for three yearsI shot for them and all that
branched out into othercommunity-related events and
before I knew it it was like Ikind of liked being able to show
that aspect of the peoplearound here Because, you know,
(05:17):
being from Montclair but goingeverywhere else, it's like the
perception people have ofMontclair.
All my life had Montclair.
It's like the perception peoplehave of Montclair all my life
had.
A Montclair Outside ofMontclair was.
You know basically that.
You know we all live onHighland Avenue and Upper
Mountain Avenue.
Like they think everybody'slike that the minute you say
you're from there.
So there's all these otherparts of town.
You know, and I'm from thefourth ward, that's why I'm down
(05:46):
here at Glenfield, because Ilive just around the corner from
here and I grew up watching alot of amazing things happen.
You know a lot of communityprograms and stuff when I was
younger, when I got the camera.
A lot of these people are stillaround.
A lot of them are still doingthese things.
So I would just startdocumenting stuff and nobody
asked me to mind you.
That's the funny part.
Like nobody asked me to do anyof that, it was just.
That's what I wanted to see.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, you know it's interesting about two things
that I want to point out is thatI feel like, with you have a
camera, it's kind of like a passto walk around and see things,
and we have a good friend,shonda Hall, who's a
photographer, and I see herwalking around with a camera,
that's my buddy.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, she's the one who told me about your work way
back when.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, yeah, she's the one who told me about your work
way back when, yeah, she can, Ifeel like she can pass through.
It seems like you know, oh,that must be official.
You know like something'shappening with that person.
Let them go through, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And a little bit of that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
A little bit of that.
But also looking at yourInstagram and your gallery and
everything, there's a huge artscene that you reveal.
You reveal a lot of artists, alot of musicians.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, my first, I guess, subject matter that I
favored when I was out in thestreet was the musicians that
were busking.
And a lot of that went on inChurch Street, south Park, down
towards Trend and various partsup and down the avenue.
Like you could walk up and downthe avenue and just bump into
all these people you knowmusicians otherwise really more
(07:15):
than just musicians just a lotof iconic Montclair
personalities that if you justspent an afternoon walking up
and down you get to see thesepeople Well.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I'm curious also has there been something along
you've been doing?
I was reading that you've beendoing this for 12 years.
I would imagine you've also.
I think that you work forSophia for 15 years, so you did
other things before.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You were a graphic artist and things like that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So I was around when Cynthia Walker founded the thing
and I was helping her at thetime with the logos and
materials and stuff.
I don't know if you know shedoes the Sophia Walk every
September.
So, it started with things likethat.
I had to make the flyer forthat and the poster for that and
(08:04):
stuff to go on the website, youknow, and this is yeah.
So this is what I did for herbefore a camera and I was doing
this kind of, as my main hustlefor a while is I was doing
graphic design.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Right, and then I saw that you had were written up in
I think it was 2001, that theydid a laundromat exhibit.
It's kind of when it started.
I saw you starting to come ontothe radar where they did an
exhibit down in the South Wardin a laundromat and I thought
that was so creative to start tointegrate the community and the
(08:35):
life of people within that.
Do you have, do you feel thatthere's a lot of that kind of
going on that most people don'tknow about in Montclair, Like
things like that?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Absolutely Even stuff that I don't know about,
because it's one of those kindof things like you have to know
somebody that goes to somethingor you have to come across it.
You know what I mean?
You can't do that.
You can't actually walk aroundand find yourself in an
environment where, oh, look atall these um poets or look at
all these musicians, they justthey're gathered in the space.
You don't know what's going onbut yeah, there's all kinds of
(09:06):
stuff going on, you know.
I mean, um, I'm not as active asI used to be, um, like I said,
because I literally would justget up for the first three years
I was shooting.
I would just get up and walkaround, you know, for a full day
and just you know, I wouldstart here.
I might end up walking down tothe stadium down there in Newark
, the baseball.
(09:28):
Is that the baseball stadium?
Like the near where the churchis down there in Bluffett Avenue
, Like if you're walking north.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
You'd walk from Montclair to there.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
All the time.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Oh my, yeah, all the time.
Walk from Montclair to thereAll the time.
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Good, how far is that ?
I gather it's probably aboutsix, seven miles, I don't.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
That's pretty good, that's pretty smart.
So you just walk your way thereand then pick up because I mean
, I noticed on your gallery ofphotos you have so much, so many
different locations.
You have New York City city,you have newark and you have
montclair and other areas.
Do you just?
Did you just start just goingto places and just taking photos
of what you saw?
Is that your pretty?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
much it.
Yeah, how did you?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
determine to like.
How do you choose where totravel to and what to focus on?
Is it it what you're feelinglike during that day, or is that
you want a collection or aseries of photos that expresses,
you know, a certain community?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
No, the funniest thing is, I never thought about
it that deeply.
It was more mood than anything.
The only things that I diddeliberately would be like going
to New York.
I would do deliberately becauseyou know, new York is, like you
know, the mecca of streetphotography and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So you know, going through your gallery of photos,
one of the things that I knowthat I had seen some of your own
personal videos talking aboutselling art and I think it's
hard to do, especiallyphotography.
It's like a hard industry, butso many of your photos, I think
are.
I would imagine them being onthe news.
Honestly, you know you'recovering demonstrations and very
(11:03):
unique exhibits.
You know people you know forthe Black Lives Matter or you
know any type of thing.
You're there and you capture somuch feeling in some of these
photos.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
I feel like a lot of them have this fierce energy
that just leap out at you.
You can't not look.
I mean they're verywell-crafted.
Yeah, they hook you and youwant to know the story and it
doesn't even matter what thecontext.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But I give you at least why they like that Before
I was taking pictures, I had anassortment of mental health
issues, among other things, allkinds of stuff that I definitely
would.
I mean, I love talking about,but I don't want to darken this
interview by getting into allthat, suffice to say, there was
(11:53):
a period of time when I just Ididn't interact with people, not
so much antisocialsocial, it'sjust not social.
I was, I was hidden in, youknow.
I mean, I'm a graphic designer,I'm a music producer, I was
doing stuff for tv and film.
Everything I did, I did it outthe house, so I didn't have to
go anywhere, right?
So I didn't, I didn't reallyinteract too much, go to parties
(12:13):
, network, do this kind of stuff.
So I had not just just um, been,you know, in the dark, for that
, for that amount of time Ididn't have any, any connections
to anybody.
You know what I mean.
I went to family functions andthat's about it.
You know, the the friends Ihung out with were the very
close friends, but most peoplejust, I mean, I'm in this town
since 78.
And after a period of time,after high school, after you
(12:34):
know some time, nobody knew whoI was anymore, you know what I
mean, because the neighborhoodchanged and whatnot.
The thing about the way I'mtaking these pictures is that I
felt like I need to get backinto things, I need to start
communicating and stuff likethat.
But it was such an awkwardthing to do because you leave
high school and all this timegoes by and you don't feel
accomplished.
And then you got to run intoeverybody, you know, and
(13:00):
everybody's making moves anddoing things and I just felt
like I had nothing to offer theconversation so I would just sit
there, you know, really, really, really awkward, really
uncomfortable and not be able tocommunicate and didn't know
what to do with that.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know what I mean.
I just didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I wasn't enjoying anything, but what ended up
happening is is just takingpictures.
Allowed me to like what youwere saying.
This pass that you get when you, when you just walk into a
crowd full of people, and I havethe option of taking pictures,
because that's what I'm there todo, but I also have the option
of talking to people if I wantto, but if I don't, it's not
weird, right?
(13:29):
he's the camera guy, you know,so he doesn't have to talk, but
so I can get into a conversationI can enjoy, I can join a
conversation without saying aword and nobody's going to think
anything of it, and thisallowed me to kind of see where
people's heads are.
What are we talking about thesedays?
You know like what's the vibeand whatnot, and it did a lot to
help me.
You know, open upcommunications with people and
(13:51):
get out here and start doingsomething more productive.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
That's incredible.
Yeah, that's really aninteresting way that you found
to get out.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I'm sorry but that's why the pictures are emotional
or those kind of feelings,because I'm looking for that I'm
trying to communicate with you.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I really relate to and appreciate the light touch
that you're like.
I was disconnected and I foundmy way back through this medium
and it's such an impressive wayto take care of yourself.
I love that story that you'vetold there and I think that me,
being a graphic artist and alsoworking from home kind of like
(14:29):
you were since 1999, before itwas like the thing to do, and I
think it's important that we getthis message out to people that
, as people are becoming moreand more at home workers or, you
know, disconnected, that we doneed these type of ways to
connect back, because you dolose connection.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's the.
I didn't realize what I wasmissing until until, like I said
, it became obvious to me to bein spaces and going.
I don't know what's going onhere, I don't know how to talk
to these people and as theextent of my networking, when I
was doing graphic because I wasalso technically have been a
computer technician by tradethis is back in the 90s I went
to school for it and I went fromcomputers to music production
(15:13):
and making myself an artist,which led to me doing graphic
design, because I wanted topackage my own stuff and it was
expensive to hire somebody todesign your covers and all that
stuff.
And then I had to learn how todo web design because I needed
to get the music out to theworld.
So everything I learned Ilearned out of necessity and
prior to that it was all kind ofbasic you walk into a room, you
give somebody a card, hey, I'mso-and-so, I do this, and that
(15:43):
was sort of like the extent ofthe network and so it was like
it was simple, but it didn'tfoster any kind of connection to
anybody.
Now I wanted to have a broader,like a more, a deeper connection
with people, which is why I dothings the way that I do them
now, like there's nothing.
I mean, I guess the mostconventional my exhibit is is
that is that there's picturesthat you know in the the exhibit
, that you go to a place andlook at the stuff Like that's
conventional.
But most of what I'm doing outhere is about connecting people
(16:04):
and connecting to people andputting us together in a room,
especially if we're of the samesort of energy.
And one thing about having thiskind of energy or any for that
matter is like whatever yourenergy is, you can spot your
energy in the room when you walkin there.
If you see somebody else, youknow exactly who's on your
wavelength, who you could talkto.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So that's what my exhibits are about.
Yes, I would like to sell work.
I pay bills this way.
Yeah, luckily, I have eventphotography and other spinoffs
of that, so it's not like I'mjust a gallery artist.
Yeah, the main thing is to puta certain quality of people in
the room, you know, so thatpeople who are just there to see
the art experience a differentkind of energy than they're used
(16:47):
to.
It's not like going to thetypical exhibit, basically
curating that into a space inthe context of my art and
bringing people that I've cometo love.
They come to love me based onthis place that we are in our
heads.
Come to love me based on thisplace that we are in our heads.
I'm not the only one who'sawkward.
I'm not the only one who hadthe issues and whatnot.
(17:08):
I'm not the only person who'sactually used art to sort of
medicate in a way.
You know what I mean, and so Ibring these people together and
then the people who just come toan exhibit get to have an
entirely different experiencethan they were expecting.
You know what I mean.
So it's just like trying to tiethe humanity and people
together into a space where youknow where you're seeing
(17:31):
something that you knowrepresents, like my perspective
on the world.
It's a beautiful thing and youmay recognize yourself in this,
sometimes literally.
You know, I've had people walkinto the exhibit and see their
picture on the wall and they'relike whoa, like what are they?
You know, how did you do that.
I didn't know I was going to beon exhibit you know what I mean
Like my first exhibit atClaire's Story.
(17:52):
I did it intentionally.
I don't know if you rememberwhen Claire's Story was here on
Church Street.
Claire's Story Fine Art, no,art, no, no.
I don't remember that.
So that that's an important timein my life because I wanted to
be a gallery artist but I hadthe damnedest time trying to
talk to anybody about how to goabout it.
You know, you walk intoorganizations in town.
They don't treat you like likethey're interested at all, in,
(18:15):
in in this, in in the arts, inthe way you know.
It's just.
You know, do I, do you serve apurpose?
Are you somebody well-known orare you willing to pay to sort
of be involved in this thing?
You know, and that'sunfortunate, I get it, it's a
business model, it's a hustle,but getting into it was tough,
you know, because nobody gave methe time of day until I started
going to this gallery calledGallery L and there was a couple
(18:37):
there.
Luke and Lauren ran it.
They were artists themselvesand they specifically opened the
gallery because of that type ofenvironment.
So when I walked into them, Ijust walked into their
receptions and I would just takepictures.
They didn't ask me to be there,of course, you know, and I just
walked in, took pictures andafter about two or three
receptions I started gettingfollowed by Lady Catherine who
(18:59):
owned Claire's Story.
She followed my work for someperiod of time to when one
random like I think it was likeit might have been New Year's
Eve, it was like close to theend of the year, and I can't
tell you how low I was at thattime because there was so much
going on.
You know, she reaches out to meand she says listen, I'm
opening the gallery.
You know, and I've beenfollowing your work for X amount
(19:22):
of months I think she saidseven months or something like
that and she's like, would yoube interested in exhibiting?
You know, and I just thought,wow, that's crazy.
Like I'm minding my business.
I go around looking for this,like, hey, how can I get
involved in this?
And nobody's really pulling meany mind, and that's tough.
I mean.
I love that she didn't know mefrom anything.
All she knew was my work.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
And that was enough.
We have to have that.
We have to have people that dothat, that are giving people a
chance their early start.
I think that our community andall of us and people can still
appreciate how talented you areand also now, having spoken to
you, understand the connectionthat we're getting from this,
(20:02):
what we're seeing, and I lovelearning that backstory, so we
really appreciate you coming onand giving us this.
You know behind the lens, lookat the heart and the mind behind
these photos.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Now I have two questions to ask you as we close
out.
Okay, One, is your hat now likepart of your style?
Because I looked for photos ofyou without your hat on and I
have not found one Good luck.
So I love that.
I love that you have like awhat do they call it?
You have like a signature itemnow Signature.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Look, yeah, they're funny.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But just two things about the hat.
One is that the original reasonI got the hat I started wearing
the hat was because mygranddaughter, on a whim, saw
one at the store.
She said I want to buy that forpop-up.
So she bought me this hat, likeit wasn't this one.
I have a bunch of them.
But she just came home one dayyou know what I'm saying With a
grandmother and said you know,your granddaughter bought you a
(20:55):
hat and I put it on.
I'm going you know what I don'tactually look.
I don't wear hats any.
I didn't used to wear hats thatlook crazy in them, in most of
them and so I said I don't, Ikind of look normal, I feel, I
feel okay in this hat and then,before I knew it, I was, I was
wearing them all the time.
The second reason is, you know,and the funnier reason is
because you know, I'm I mean,I'm 52.
I started wearing these a fewyears ago but my hairline has
(21:17):
long ago vanished, you know,from here and it's not so, and
it's not so many, it's not toomany options.
I'm not doing comb overs andand weird stuff like that.
It's like, you know, this partof my face looks pretty normal.
I said, let me do, let me just,you know, cover it up.
So so yeah, you'd be hardpressed to catch me without the
hat on because I got the most.
I got the like the GeorgeJefferson, george Constanza kind
(21:39):
of combination up here Like,like you know, you don't want to
look at that.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, it serves many purposes this hat and it looks
good.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Well, as we close out , we ask all of our guests to
give a shout out to a person,place or thing that they love
about New Jersey.
So we ask you I know it's goingto be hard for you, because of
all the things that youcelebrate and take photos of and
lift up, it'd be hard to pickone.
So what can you narrow it downto?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, no, yeah, that was absolutely tough, like I got
.
I have too many people that Icould possibly name, so I won't
even go there If I can get, if Ican get kind of sentimental in
a way.
Like my family is Cuba and theycame up to Cuba, weirdly, via
Chicago, into Newark and then upto Montclair and you know,
(22:29):
because of my father trying togo buy the house in Montclair
and everything he was working atFord at the time, I mean he
spent all this time.
He got up, you know, 4 o'clockin the morning and he wasn't
back home until 7 at night.
So there wasn't a whole lotthat we did together.
I mean almost nothing really.
But but two things that we didwas we had kind of like a game
(22:52):
night on Saturday where weplayed dominoes and and and and
put together puzzles.
But the other thing we didduring the summer would be we go
down to Sandy Hook.
So in terms of places that meansomething to me, like that's
literally the only thing we didas a family.
You know, outside the house wedidn't go to people's houses for
get-togethers or parties andnothing like that.
I mean we didn't know anybody.
You know, as far as my family.
You know, moving up here wedidn't socialize with other
(23:12):
families, yeah, but Sandy Hookwas, you know, my first
experience with the beach and itwas the one place we always
went me, my sister, um, mymother and father, a bag full of
hot dogs, uh, you know, somekind of soda and whatever, and
then we just sit there for hoursdigging up holes and and and
that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
so it's sandy hook, as as a place, actually means
something to me that's great Iwould have to say that might be
my favorite yeah thing I loveabout new jersey comment.
It was really it's got.
It's got so much heart and it'sjust got so much visual to it
as well with the bag of hot dogs.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I totally imagine it.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That's great Well thank you so much for sharing
that great story.
Towards the end of the podcast,I hope that we bump into you
somewhere in town in maybe oneof these cool things.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Hopefully at the exhibit which is up until the
end of the month.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Okay, great, perfect, give you a chance to actually
see some of this stuff in person.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And of course purchase something if you like,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
That's right.
Support the arts people.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well, we'll put the info about the exhibit also in
the show notes, so thateverybody who listens to this
can make sure that they can go.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And you have the flyer that I texted you last
week.
Who listens to this can makesure that they can go.
And you have the flyer that Itexted you last week.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I do, I do so.
We'll put that in there as well.
So that's great.
Well, thank you for coming onLost in Jersey.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
It's been a pleasure to meet you and learn about your
backstory.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
It's a great one, and also I hope you enjoy the Porch
Fest.
Yes, have fun at Porch Fest.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Good luck to your son's band.
Thanks so much, guys.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I appreciate it.
This podcast was produced byRachel Martens and Jeanette
Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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