February 18, 2025 • 42 mins
Shawn Simons’ harrowing journey—from surviving the devastating Seton Hall dormitory fire to becoming a fierce advocate for fire safety—embodies resilience, accountability, and the power of community. His story sparks urgent conversations about safety and the life-altering impact of young adults’ choices.
• Shawn recounts the tragic events of the Seton Hall fire
• The emotional and physical challenges faced during recovery
• Shawn's transition to becoming a fire safety advocate
• The importance of education about responsible decision-making
• The changes in fire safety legislation in New Jersey
• Reflections on forgiveness and understanding trauma
• The ripple effect of sharing personal stories with younger audiences
After the Fire: A True Story of Friendship and Survival by Robin Gaby Fisher
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Jeanette, Hi Rachel, we just got off a very
inspiring conversation with Sean.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Simons yes, I'm still on a high from our conversation
with Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Well, there's many documentaries that have been
done, A famous book that waswritten about his experience at
Seton Hall.
There was a fire in January19th 2000, almost 25 years ago.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
In a freshman dorm.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And he and his roommate survived the fire.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But they were very badly burned and went through a
year of rehabilitation and manyother things.
So it was a devastating and, ashe said at the time, it was the
worst dormitory college fire inlike a hundred years.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Because of what they went through, he has become a
public speaker.
He goes to high schools and heand his roommate go together and
talk about what they wentthrough and fire safety
awareness and also talking aboutthings that no one ever thinks
about, you know, when they'reheading into college, about that
(01:04):
safety and also for pranks andpractical jokes, because it was
two fraternity freshmanfraternity kids that did the
prank of setting a banner onfire, a bulletin board banner on
fire that caused the fire.
And he'll tell us about all,about the moments and the events
in this interview and what hehas gone on to do, which, as we
(01:27):
learned towards the end of theinterview, every dormitory in
New Jersey now has a sprinklersystem in every room above their
bed because of what they wentthrough.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yep and unfortunately not every state has that rule,
that's right.
Not even close.
We learn so much and just whata compassionate, resilient,
joyful person Sean is, and hegives back to the community
every single day.
And it's a beautiful story outof something horrible.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, it is.
So, without further ado, here'sthe interview with Sean Simons.
With Sean Simons.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Sean, thank you so much for joining us on Lost in
Jersey.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's a pleasure to meet you, pleasure to meet you
guys, I'm so glad to be here,thank you, thank you.
So I reached out to you becauseI was looking with the fires
that happened in Californiarecently.
I was looking around about firesafety and like maybe trying to
get someone from the New Jerseystate to come talk to us, and
then I saw you on LinkedIn in apicture with, I guess it was, a
(02:33):
New Jersey fire official.
And then I started lookingcloser at your story and I was
like, oh my gosh, will he comeon the podcast?
And you said yes.
So thank you so much forresponding and coming on and to
tell your story.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
First, we always ask people your connection to New
Jersey before we get into thestory was literally eight blocks
away from where I grew up from.
I had been accepted toGeorgetown, to Cornell and, of
(03:08):
course, to Seton Hall and Idecided hey, I want to stay home
, I want to stay in Jersey.
I love it that much.
Plus, I want to stay closer tomy mom and go right up the
street to Seton.
Hall.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And it's a great school and so makes complete
sense.
So you stayed in state and youwent off to college, and this is
where your life completely tooka very significant turn.
Yes, and this is the story thathas been 25 years ago, actually
almost.
You know, a couple of weeks ago, correct that everything
(03:38):
changed.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yes, so yes, january 19, 2000,.
My life as I knew it completelychanged.
It was a fraternity prank goingwrong in our dormitory where
two individuals, at 4.30 in themorning, decided to light a
bulletin board on fire.
And because we had had so manyfalse alarms leading up to this
(03:59):
fire, where students wouldconstantly just pull the alarms
just to ask pranks or to getpeople out the building, we
became very complacent and Ikind of attribute our story to
the story of the boy that criedwolf.
You know, you can cry wolf somany times, but when a wolf
comes, a lot of times you're notprepared, and we weren't
prepared, you know, that nightto be able to get out the
building as far as our safety.
(04:20):
So that's how our lives changedforever, because of that night
our safety.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So that's how our lives change forever because of
that night.
I know you do take your storyaround to schools and to help
especially teenagers who aren'talways thinking clearly when
they do things and aboutconsequences.
You talk about this to schoolsto help educate kids going off
to college or just becoming anadult and how to not set a fire,
but also what to do if there isone.
(04:46):
So will you take us back alittle bit to what that you woke
up to this 430 alarm and whatyou personally were thinking.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So yeah, when I woke up to the sound of the alarms, I
just assumed, once again it wasanother false alarm.
Me and my roommate Alvaro, wekind of took our time.
It was a very, very cold wintermorning.
It was like below freezing, Iknow for a fact.
So we took our time, we gotfully dressed because we didn't
know how long we would have tostand outside before they
allowed us to go back in, andduring that time the fire was
(05:18):
growing larger and larger.
We had no idea that it was areal fire until we opened up the
door and a cloud of smoke justkind of burst into the room.
And at that point in time Ikind of turned around and I said
to Al I said this is the realdeal.
And just because of, I guess,prior learning as a kid some
fire safety stuff that Iremember they say hey, you know,
(05:38):
when there's a lot of smoke,get on your hands and knees and
crawl.
And that's exactly what we did.
But we just didn't know wherewe were crawling.
We didn't realize we werecrawling into the pit of the
fire, which was on the thirdfloor, where our floor was.
I tell people all the time,fire is not like how it looks on
TV.
With this orange glow and youcan see everything and you see
people running around.
It was complete darkness and wedidn't know if the fire was
(06:00):
upstairs, downstairs, insomeone's room.
We just had no idea Fire wasupstairs downstairs in someone's
room.
We just had no idea andunbeknownst to us.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
we crawled directly into it.
I read that you found astairwell and then you then had
to go to another stairwell.
Is that correct?
And your friend Al he's yourroommate at this time and he's
following along with you, Iguess.
And in the second stairwell yousaw that there was fire, but
you realized at that point youhave to just keep going, is that
(06:28):
?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
correct.
Well, not 100% accurate.
I crawled past the firststairwell, which was the way
that we normally went.
If there was just a regularfire alarm, you know, if the
elevators weren't working, wewould take that stairwell.
Like I said, because of thejust the blindness of the smoke,
I actually passed by thatstairwell where Alvaro actually
went that way.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So you didn't see it?
I never saw it.
No, I just kept crawling.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
What I ended up doing was I ended up crawling past
the fire, in essence, intosomeone's dorm room who had left
their door open, and the onlyreason I was able to see that,
you know because I saw like thenightlight from from outside,
because their door was open.
So I crawled into that room andonce I crawled into that room.
I just kind of looked at it andsaid I have to get out of here
because there was so much smokecoming into the room.
(07:15):
So I literally crawled back onmy hands and knees down to an
exit which was on the other endof the building and was able to
get out that way.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And did you feel yourself burned or no, was it?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
No, you know, it was the adrenaline.
There was so much adrenalinepumping, there was the shock of
everything that was going on,that I had no idea that I was
burned.
I felt the heat when I crawledpast the fire.
Fortunately for me, none of myclothing actually caught on fire
, so I didn't have to deal withany of that.
So when I got outside, I stoodup.
I walked outside to the, to thecafeteria which was across from
where our dorm was, and Iliterally was going in there and
(07:54):
someone said to me I think youneed medical attention.
And I'm like, for what you know, I'm not realizing.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I had been burned.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I was in complete shock and I had been burned on
15% of my body.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
My goodness.
And then you got.
When you finally got to themedical attention, did you like
realize how bad it was?
Yet?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
No, you know, when I finally got into an ambulance, I
laid down on a gurney and I'llnever forget the look on the
EMT's face.
He just had a look of almostshock, and I would later find
out that I was the first burnpatient that he had ever picked
up, so it was something new forhim.
Not that he was scared, he wastrained for it, but it was just
(08:34):
a moment of shock for him aswell.
And when I saw that look ofshock on his face I knew at that
point in time something was bad.
I just didn't know the severityof it at that point.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So at that time I mean 50 people plus 50 people
were injured.
Three people died.
What goes through your mind atthat moment when you're at the
ambulance?
You know something's nowhappening for real.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, you know, it's just.
You're just disoriented, you'reconfused.
Remember, this is 430 in themorning, so to be awakened by
this and it be an actual fire isjust kind of alarming.
To see the people justscattering around everywhere and
then starting to see the, butstill also not realizing that I
was as badly hurt as I was, youknow, not only the burns, but I
(09:29):
had suffered an enormous amountof smoke inhalation, which was
actually probably the thing thatwas going to kill me more than
the burns was, and not realizingthat my lungs were starting to
kind of shut down at that point.
But it was just the adrenalinethat just kept me going that I
didn't even process it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And so then you get to the hospital and they inform
your family, I'm assuming rightaway.
I mean, what do you rememberwhen you first saw your mom?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yes.
So I was sent up to St Barnabas, to the burn unit there in
Livingston, and they said that Iwas conscious when I got to the
emergency room no-transcript.
(10:33):
So I had a breathing tube downmy throat and wasn't able to
communicate fully with them.
But it was just a, I think, arelief to be able to see some
loved ones, but not realizingstill at that point in time that
it had been three weeks, like Ithought it was the next day,
and not realizing I had been ina coma for that long.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Do you remember the initial feelings when you start
to understand or start toprocess as you come out of the
coma and your family is thereand I'm sure that they're
distraught.
I mean, I guess you know whatis the environment like and how
are you responding to such atragic event now that you're on
this other side of it, comingout of the coma?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, you know it was a I don't know it was a sense
of, I guess I was.
I was definitely scared I wasbecause I was in an unknown
place.
I actually woke up when they Iguess they started weaning me
out of the coma.
I woke up inside what's calledthe tank room, which is a sort
of the room where they do thedebriding of your skin and they
wash you up on a daily basis sothat you don't get the infection
(11:36):
and it can change your wounds.
So I woke up on the table insidethe tank room and immediately,
as soon as I was able to, youknow, gain a little strength,
like I hugged the first person Isaw and it's actually funny
because there was the StarLegend newspaper covered our
recovery after the fire and thephotographer was in the tank
room with me the first time Iwoke up and he had this
(11:57):
beautiful picture of me reachingto hug one of the nurses who
was cleaning me at the time andI was just.
I knew that there was such.
I knew that there was some typeof tragic thing that happened.
I didn't know at that point theseverity of you know the fact
that we had lost classmates andstuff, but I knew I had been
injured and I was just sothankful that somebody was there
to just touch it at that point.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
It was, you know.
Like I said, it's a great shot,and especially in the context
of what was happening.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I've seen those photos and it is.
They're very moving.
Many documentaries have beenmade about this event and
Pulitzer Prize books have beenwritten on what all you went
through and what everybody hadgone through.
How did you find your way going, you know, coming back out of
this dark place?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, you know, going through a traumatic experience
is different for everyone.
For me, I have to reallyattribute a lot of it to my
support system between my family, my friends, the Seton Hall
community itself, the nurses,the doctors Like they were
everybody was championing,championing us to recover.
I always say that our story isunique because of where it
(13:09):
happened, because it happenedhere in New Jersey, being so
close to New York City, themedia coverage that it received,
the fact that this had been oneof the deadliest college
dormitory fires in over ahundred years, that it just got
so much publicity and attentionfocused on it that it ended up
helping us in a sense, becausewe started to like get letters
(13:30):
and cards from kids all over thecountry.
People would be sending youknow, and this is, this is you
know, kind of pre, like we werejust at the stage of having cell
phones and stuff like that.
So you know, still, snail mailwas a big thing.
It wasn't like a lot of emailsand stuff like that.
But it was incredible to wakeup and look on my room wall and
see the cards from people allover the country just saying,
(13:54):
hey, we heard about yoursituation, we're praying for you
, we're there for you, wesupport you.
That was huge in the recoveryprocess just knowing that people
cared.
There were so many people who,I think, started to relate their
situation and life to ours,like in a condition of living in
a dorm before where fire alarmshad went off and people took
(14:16):
them as jokes and or didn'tevacuate when they heard them
and they said, looked and said,wow, that could have been me.
that happened not at Seton Hallbut at any campus across the
country and I think a lot ofpeople the story really hit home
for them.
That said, you know what are wedoing in this country to
protect young adults who areliving on college campuses?
(14:37):
And you know, I always, like Isaid, I think that sometimes we
have to have tragedy happeningin order to figure out a way to
prevent it from happening in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Right.
Well, you know, I think peoplewho are listening in the stories
new about this prior to theinterview of how the system is.
It's a little tricky because weunderstand that their attorneys
kind of told them to not speakabout it so they didn't display
a lot of remorse for many yearsand they held the the case for a
long time.
So that part of the case is kindof a it's hard, it's a hard
(15:36):
part of it of like trying to getthe message through to people
you know you've got thesefraternity kids doing a prank.
It's very cliche, you know likefraternity brothers and then
them not really owning up andshowing the remorse that you
need, as opposed to the so manypeople taking the time to write
(15:59):
a letter to you and care aboutyou and then seeing that there
are again sometimes maybe somepeople that can't find that.
Does that still sit with you inlife like that polar kind of
situation?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Well, you know, I always say that I believe that
these two guys didn't do thisintentionally to hurt anybody or
kill anybody.
I think they got drunk.
They made a really, really baddecision and this was the result
of it.
As you said, we never got theopportunity to really hear from
them, mainly because of theadvice of their counsel, and
(16:29):
even to this day we have neverheard from them.
They've never reached out to usto kind of apologize, and I
always say I don't necessarilyneed an apology from them.
I always say that my mother andmy father had a chance to come
to the hospital to see if I wasgoing to make it.
Three of our classmates, frank,john and Aaron.
Their parents didn't get thatopportunity.
Their parents got that phonecall that morning and said they
(16:49):
had to come identify theirchildren's bodies.
They were the ones I wish thatthey would have apologized to
and I think people would havebeen able to have a little bit
more closure even though I don'tthink you ever get closure from
losing a child but I think theprocess would have been of
healing would have started a loteasier.
As you mentioned, for thistrial to be delayed almost seven
years after the fire, it wasjust like pouring salt in the
(17:12):
wound.
They were out free, livingtheir lives, doing whatever they
wanted to do, and all of thesefamilies were suffering with
either losing a loved one or wewere suffering with the you know
care that we had to.
You know the recovery process.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
And they really showed no remorse and to me that
was almost a slap in the face,especially as you mentioned the
shortness of the period of timethat they had to spend in jail.
I know, like I said, theydidn't, their intentions weren't
to commit murder, but you knowthey also.
I think they deserve more timethan what they got, and it is.
(17:47):
You know, it is our justicesystem that sometimes shows
favor to some and not to others.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
But you know it is what it is.
I mean, I can't go back andchange what they did.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I can only live with the fact of you know who I am
and how I've become strongerbecause of what they did been
the one that has gone out toteach people and to make changes
and help the community increasethe laws for fire safety within
dormitories and sprinklersystems and things like that.
(18:18):
Tell us about this road toadvocacy.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Sure, so that there was a void in teaching young
adults about the importance offire safety and fire prevention
when I was a college freshmanand I remember starting at Seton
Hall, maybe one of the RAs sayssomething in a floor meeting
about hey, you know, exit thebuilding when a fire alarm goes
off.
And that probably was it, youknow.
But remember, and to me Ialways say this and it's you
(18:44):
know, it's unfortunate thatsometimes you have young adults
kind of leading young adults ona college campus.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
You have a 20-year-old, 21-year-old, trying
to teach Responsible.
Yeah, responsible trying toteach an 18-year-old what to do,
and nine times out of 10,especially when you're a
freshman you're not listening toanybody, you're just kind of
doing your own thing and youjust you know.
And I saw a void in being ableto communicate to young adults
about the importance of firesafety and fire prevention, but
(19:17):
also that they also needed tohear an inspiring story about
overcoming adversity, especiallyat a young age.
I mean, you know, I wasn't.
I never in a million yearswould have thought that this
would have happened to me at theage of 18, as a college
freshman, but it did and I hadto embrace it and I had to
realize that.
You know, there are a lot ofpeople who can benefit from
hearing our story, hearing whatwe went through and how, the
(19:40):
resiliency of what we wentthrough, and realizing
especially traveling across thecountry, going to different
colleges and high schools,talking to young adults that
they are experiencing a lot of,you know, hardships and
adversities and obstacles andchallenges.
It may not be a fire, but it'ssomething that they can learn.
You know how we were able topersevere through it, how they
(20:00):
can learn how to use the supportsystems around them to make
their lives a lot better.
And I just thought it wassomething that you know, like I
said, coming from ourperspective, coming from a
actual person who survived adorm fire, especially speaking
to those who are going to livein that environment, not only
talking about the adversityaspect of it, but the
consequences of your actions andhow, you know, even joining a
(20:22):
fraternity or sorority we hearall these stories about, you
know things going wrong and howit changes not only the person
you know that you're doing it to, but it also affects your life
as well.
You know those two guys.
When they set that fire ascollege freshmen, I'm quite sure
they didn't think that theywould ever become felons because
of what they did at the age of18.
(20:42):
They're felons now for the restof their life because of that
prank.
To be able to get that messageacross to thousands and
thousands of young adults acrossthe country is fulfilling for
me because I get thatopportunity to show them both
sides of it and you know they'revery thankful for me sharing my
story with them.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I'm sure I mean and like you said it's, it's
relatable even you know in somany different ways it does.
It's not just about fire.
It's really about, like yousaid, personal responsibility.
As you get older and also onthe other side of that, you know
what you do if you are in asituation where you need to
overcome and you need to dependon other people, a community, to
help you through.
That's really beautiful whatyou are able to do.
(21:29):
I'm sure Do you get people inthat want to talk to you
afterwards and come up to youafter the assembly, or yeah, it
gets a little overwhelmingsometimes.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
You know, I'm sure some schools, you know we, like
I said, speak at here in NewJersey.
We speak at over 100 highschools every single year.
And in addition to that, wespeak at probably another 50 to
75 high schools and collegesacross the country and there has
not been a time, when wefinished the assembly, where
students don't want to stickaround and come and ask
additional questions or justcome and give us a hug or take
(22:01):
pictures.
You know it's, it's.
It shows the value of what wedo, that it's making a
difference.
It's making a difference Evenfor those kids who are not that
social and don't necessarilywant to come up and say
something.
Then, as soon as we get to thecar, as soon as we get home and
we check our Instagram page,there's a ton of people just
leaving comments and messagesthat you know.
(22:21):
They say hey, I wanted to comeup and talk to you but the line
was too long or I was too shy,but I just wanted to say thank
you, or I'm going through thisin my life and your story helped
me.
So it's so fulfilling to knowthat you know, through our story
, that we're making a differencein so many people's lives.
And just to hear a lot of kidswho say, as I was getting ready
to graduate and go off tocollege, I was thinking about
(22:43):
tuition, I was thinking aboutwhat classes I was going to take
, who my roommate was going tobe.
I never thought about my safetyand you opened up my eyes to
that.
To me, that is the mostfulfilling thing to hear from a
young adult.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That is very powerful , absolutely, because I mean, I
think we all forget about thesimplest thing.
It was just making sure thatyou're OK.
We're caught up in all theother stuff.
What are some of the questions?
I'm curious that you get acommon question like that.
You get from these students.
That seems to be maybe it seemsit's really simple, but it's
what comes to the mind.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
It's not a simple question, but we get a lot of
times we get the question aboutforgiveness Were we able to
forgive the guys who set thefire?
We a lot of times get thequestion about what was it like
being in a coma.
I think people have a curiosityof people being in comas and
whether you know people can hearthem or you know, I think just
(23:37):
a lot of things.
Just we get that question aboutyou know, what was it like to
go back to school and go?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
back on campus.
Yeah, I was going to ask that.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, yes, please answer all the above.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
All right.
So let's start with theforgiveness question that we
normally get asked from thestudents.
For me, like I said,forgiveness took.
Forgiveness took about 10 yearsfor me to actually really truly
be able to forgive them.
And that actually came from aconversation I was having with
my mother about learning how tolet go and move on.
And I said to my mom I said,well, that's easier said than
(24:10):
done.
You know, when I have to wake upevery morning, I have to look
at the scars on my hand.
I have the memories ofeverything I've gone through
because of what these two guysdid to me.
How can I just, you know, letit go?
And she said well, she says youhave all this hate in your
heart towards these two guys andguess what?
They're out of jail now, doingwhatever they're doing, and
(24:30):
they're probably not thinkingabout you a single second of the
day.
So you dedicating that negativeenergy towards them is probably
one of the worst things thatyou could be doing, because it's
just hurting you.
And when she said it to me likethat it made all the sense in
the world.
And a lot of times in life wesay, oh, we hate a person, we
can't stand the person, and ninetimes out of 10, that person is
(24:58):
not thinking about you a singlesecond of the day.
So it was that process of beingable to learn how to let go and
just kind of move on and it was.
You know it wasn't an easyprocess, but it was something
that I got through.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Well, that's really brilliant that she said that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I kind of needed to hear that myself, just for you
know, like everyday life.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
You know it's such a good piece of you know wisdom,
and it doesn't do anything tothe person we want to channel it
to.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Even if they are thinking about us, you know it
doesn't help us at all, so thatthat is a very wise thing that
your mother imparted upon you.
Now, the other question waswhat is it like to be in a coma?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
that you just are, you just asleep, you know, you
just so from my personalexperience being in a coma yes,
it was just a long sleep, butalso not knowing that I was
asleep because of the fact thatit's you're putting to a
medically induced coma.
They always say that some ofthe drugs that they give you are
make you have some really weirddreams, and I do remember that
(25:53):
I did have a number of reallycrazy dreams.
But, like I said, when I wokeup, you know, my parents said
that hey, they used to playmusic for me all the time and
that I had all these people comeinto the hospital to see me
talk to me.
I don't recall anybody talkingto me.
I don't recall any music beingin play, I just remember the
dreams that I was in.
(26:17):
But what I tell people all thetime is that if you know
somebody that is in a coma, ifyou know somebody you know,
don't that person still alive?
It's not like they're dead, youknow.
So go and talk to them.
And we have heard differentreactions from different people
who have been in comas over theyears, where people have been
able to, like, squeeze a hand oryou know bat an eye or
something.
Just in my case.
I just don't recall doing anyof that and you know my family
said they don't recall me likehaving any type of movements,
(26:38):
when they were talking to me ina coma.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, so the last question was going back to
school.
How did that?
First of all, how?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
long did it take before you went back to school
and then did you want to go backto Seton Hall or did you feel a
little nervous about going backto the same place?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
So I was in the hospital for a little bit over a
month, and then I had to prettymuch go back to the hospital
every single day for a full yearand do occupational and
physical therapy.
So because the fire happened inJanuary, I pretty much missed
that whole semester.
When classes started back up inSeptember, I asked my doctor
would it be okay for me to kindof break up the monotony of just
(27:20):
going to the hospital every day?
I want to take a class or twojust to kind of get the feel of
it.
He kind of suggested that Iwait a full year and go back.
But I didn't listen.
I wanted to go back and youknow, I just I felt I was ready
and I wanted to go back to SetonHall because that was the place
that I had always envisionedthat I would get my education
from.
You know, I remember as a kidriding by Seton Hall's campus
(27:44):
and seeing everybody out on thegreen and just seeing.
You know how much fun it lookedlike people were having at the
school.
Then to grow up and realize thehow great Seton Hall was.
I, that was home to me and Iwanted to make sure that I got
my degree.
I promised my mom that I wouldget my degree from there.
You know now I didn't go backand stay on campus, of course,
but I wanted to make sure that Iwent back there.
(28:06):
And I always also felt that ifI would have transferred to
another school.
It would have been a lot harderon me as far as being accepted,
because people may not haveknown my story At Seton Hall
everybody knew who I was.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
That's what I was going to say.
That you were.
You were kind of famous In asense Right.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So you know, even though I had only been on campus
for a semester and I had a lotof friends, you know,
upperclassmen and in my class aswell, but there was a whole
slew of incoming freshmen whowere on campus now, but
everybody knew the story,everybody knew who we were.
And I just remember on day one,walking through campus and I
(28:44):
was walking to one of my classesand just groups of kids just
coming up to me saying, hey, Iknow you don't know who we are,
but I know who you are, we knowyour story, we're so glad that
you're back here on campusgiving me hugs, offering to.
You know, I'm doing anythingthat I needed to be done.
It was just like it was likebeing at home.
And I know I wouldn't have gotthat same feeling if I would
have went somewhere else where Iwould have had to kind of
(29:05):
explain what happened to me.
And, like I said, seton Hallwas my home and it still is my
home.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, that's so nice and I hadn't thought of it like
that, but it was good to havepeople who understood that you
had been through something andbe so supportive and
understanding and loving.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
There were 600 of us in that building that night and
I always say there are 600different stories of how that
night affected people.
Not only that, you also have tolook at just the campus in a
whole.
I mean, there were people whowere in other dorms who were
just frightened to death becausethey had either lived in Boland
before or, you know, they wereafraid that it could happen
(29:45):
inside of their dorm.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Over the years I have met a number of those people
who live in that building,whether they were injured from
due to smoke inhalation, ofcourse, all the other burn
survivors I have a really greatrelationship with saw smoke but
(30:08):
saw the aftermath of what wasgoing on and how they said that
you know no-transcript.
And to see the people comingout the building with soot all
over their face and peoplecrying, and you know just the
chaos that was happening oncampus that morning.
People have been scarred bythis a lot more than what I
(30:32):
would have ever expected.
I think in life we have thiscriteria that if you're the
person who goes throughsomething, then you're the only
person who can feel any type oftrauma, and that's not always
the case, because there arepeople who through something,
then you're the only person whocan feel any type of trauma, and
that's not always the case,because there are people who you
know weren't directly affected,but they were around and they
(30:55):
have trauma behind it as well.
So it's incredible over theyears I've been able to connect
with people either on LinkedInor through social media, or even
just now that maybe I speak attheir kid' high school and they
go home and they tell theirparents hey, we saw this program
about the Seton Hall fire,didn't you go there?
And they're like, yeah, I wasthere that night.
And so the crazy connectionthat happens, especially here in
Jersey.
It really paints a greatpicture of the dynamics, of how
(31:18):
it changed so many people'sperspectives on lives.
I've met people who they say nowwhen they hear a fire alarm
even at their workplace, they'relike begging people to get out
the building because you justnever know if it's a real alarm.
And they say, well, you know, Iexperienced this as a college
freshman when I was there.
I didn't get hurt, but you know, I have friends that did and
(31:38):
now it kind of is a chainreaction type of thing.
Do get a lot of people who cometo us and say you look, I'm
going through this and yourstory helped me.
Or sometimes we get people thatsay you know, what I'm going
through in life is not as bad aswhat you're going through.
And I always try to tell themdon't devalue what you're going
through in life.
Like, your adversity is youradversity.
Mine was what I went through,but it's about how you persevere
(32:00):
through it, how you get throughit.
You know, yes, we can use thosesame you know tools to kind of
get through it, but don't don'tever dumb down in the sense what
your your, what your obstaclein life is.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Is it hard for you to keep retelling the story
sometimes?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
No, you know what I always tell myself.
I signed up for this.
In life, when you go through atraumatic situation, either you
do one of two things.
Either you decide to push itaway and say, look, I've gone
through it, I don't want to talkabout it anymore, I just want
to move on, and you know, therest of my life is the way it is
.
Or you embrace it and you sitthere and say how can I use what
I've gone through in order tohelp other people?
(32:37):
And I decided to do the latter,and I think that has been a
very therapeutic thing for me tobe able to do this.
You know, for years now.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And you don't do this alone.
You do it along with Al.
Is that correct, your roommate?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yes, yes, so I have the advantage of working with my
roommate almost every day.
You know, I always say that weprobably have one of the best
roommate stories in the world.
So what we've gone through.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Wow, I guess that is definitely a way to look at it.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And not only from the aspect of at Seton Hall, but we
were sort of roommates at StBarnabas at the hospital
together.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
You know, so we, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
I tell people and people get a laugh out of this
Like I spend more time with Almost times during the course of
the year than I do with my wife,which is a little disappointing
.
But my wife understands thepurpose of our mission.
She understands, you know, theadvocacy that we're trying to do
, the lives that we're trying tochange.
You know and I wouldn't want todo it with any other person we
(33:48):
are like the yin to each other,yang.
In a sense we are completeopposites.
I'm very outgoing, I love to bethe life of the party, and
Alice is so reserved and laidback and quiet, but it works.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I need to see that movie.
I haven't seen it myself, but Iknow that it's shown through
schools.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
We saw the trailer and that, even just the trailer,
is wow.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
the producer, guido Verweyen he is a documentarian
from California and he said hewas walking into Barnes and
Nobles one day and he waslooking for books of inspiration
(34:28):
and he saw that our book was upon the shelf.
He bought five books that day.
He said he liked the way thatthe cover of our book looked and
he took the book home.
He read that book and one dayhe called the author of our book
, robin Gabby Fisher, the nextday and said these two guys are
incredible.
The story is incredible.
I want to make a documentary onit.
(34:49):
He flew out on the 10 yearanniversary of the fires when we
met him.
He flew out to here to NewJersey, to Seton Hall, at the
Memorial Mass that we have oncampus on January 19th and he
started filming from that pointand then kind of went backwards,
january 19th, and he startedfilming from that point and then
kind of went backwards, beingable to utilize the pictures
(35:09):
from the Star Legend newspaper,being able to interview a lot of
the people who were involvedwith it you know, 10 years later
at that point but being able tointerview our parents and our
friends and the investigatorsand put together this
beautifully, this beautifuldocumentary that really
showcases the emotion of whateverybody was going through, and
what it does is.
It gives us the opportunity to,especially to younger adults.
(35:31):
It gives them that visual thatsometimes they need, as opposed
to just going into an auditoriumand saying, hey, this happened
to me.
Now they could actually see thewhole process of what was going
on, and it gives us thatopportunity to really it
resonates more with them whenthey can see that process.
Yeah, yeah, I bet, I bet, andthen see you today, and then see
(35:52):
us today Exactly, and a lot oftimes it's funny because even
sometimes after the program,some of the kids are like, wow,
I didn't even realize as I waswatching that that you were the
guys who are you know, becauseyou guys look so good now and in
the film, you know you werescarred, you know, and going
through that whole process, andI'm like, yeah, so this is a you
know, a proven fact that, yeah,we've come from that and now
(36:12):
look where we are now, where wecan kind of give back and share
our story to help others.
So our book After the Fire is aNew York Times bestselling book.
You know.
We've been all over the country, you know, doing book signings
and all kinds of things.
Like it has given us theopportunities for, especially to
be a Jersey boy, to see therest of the country, parts of
(36:33):
the country that I never, ever,would have, you know, probably
even considered going to.
And I'm a traveler, I lovetraveling, I like to travel
internationally.
But this fire and what hasbecome because of it, has given
me the opportunity to see somuch of this great country that
we have here, and all because ofthis fire that happened 25
years ago.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Everybody's got to.
You know.
Get the book, watch thedocumentary yes, how do people
get you?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
coming to their school, awesome, so.
So we are accessible in anumber of ways.
I mean, we have a very, verylarge social media presence.
Okay, our social media, ourInstagram page, is Alvaro and
Sean, and so if you are tryingto contact us, you can
definitely go through that.
We have our website, which isalandshawncom.
(37:19):
You can reach us through there.
We mainly get to high schoolsthrough fire departments.
Fortunately, all collegesacross this country still don't
have fire sprinklers in them,which is sad, you know, and it's
unfortunate.
New Jersey is one of threestates across this country that
does have mandatory firesprinklers in all the
dormitories, which means whenevery kid goes to sleep at
(37:40):
nighttime and they look abovetheir head, there's going to be
a fire sprinklers in all thedormitories, which means when
every kid goes to sleep atnighttime and they look above
their head, there's going to bea fire sprinkler.
That's because of what happenedto us at Seton.
Hall.
I have a son that goes toRutgers, new Brunswick.
Right now.
He's in his sophomore year andyou know I say that to him all
the time.
I'm like you know you and yourfriends are protected at night
when you go to sleep because ofwhat happened to us.
(38:01):
I have an older son who goes toschool in North Carolina and
when he moved in on campus, whenwe moved him into his dorm, I
looked up and I saw that therewere no fire sprinklers and I
told him there was no way I'mallowing you to stay in this
building without fire sprinklers.
And he completely understoodwhere I was coming from.
But how many parents think toask that question?
(38:22):
How many students?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
do that, not me.
I didn't ask.
I have two kids in college Now.
I'm going to call them and askthem to look up.
I didn't even think of that.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Yeah, so how many kids think about that?
When you're going on collegetours, you don't ask that
question Like nobody no.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You know, Two, it should just be there Somebody
you know it should.
So thank you for doing that forthe New Jersey students.
Yes, that's an amazing thing,you about New Jersey, absolutely
.
Thank you for being a verygreat representative of New
Jersey around the country, andso, but for you, what do you
(39:12):
love about New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
There's a lot of things I love about New Jersey.
Like I said, being a Jersey boyall my life going to high
school, going to college here,living here, still having the
opportunity to travel, like Isaid, the country to do After
the Fire presentations andtravel the world with my wife,
jersey is home to me.
I love the.
I love, I guess, the diversityof New Jersey.
(39:33):
I love the division of NewJersey.
I love North Jersey versusSouth Jersey, the whole Kim
versus.
Pork Roll thing.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I love you know, even when it comes to I'm a
big sports fanatic.
Yeah, I love you know, evenwhen it comes to I'm a big
sports fanatic.
I love the fact that you knowSouth Jersey is is Phillies and
we're Giants and Jets up here.
Like I just love that where youknow we have such great
diversity in the state where alot of other states don't people
(39:56):
that live in other states don'tget that.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
No, you're right, I hadn't thought about it, even
sports wise.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Yeah, it's so dynamic that we have, you know, so much
going on in this little state.
You know I love, especiallybeing a North Jersey person.
I love the closeness of beingable to get into New York City
but also get back home at theend of the night yeah exactly, I
love that.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We love that also.
It's like great to be able togo, but then you're so psyched
at the end of the night Best ofboth worlds.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
All right.
What place do you like to eatat?
What is one of your go-to spots?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
One of my go-to spots .
I would have to say that whatwas actually a newer go-to spot
for me now that we are really,really in love with is, in West
Orange, the Chit Chat Diner.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Chit Chat Diner.
I love the Chit Chat Diner.
I've never been there.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Right across from Eagle Rock.
The reservation up there.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, it's like it has a great view.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah the great view of.
You can look clear over to NewYork City from up there right on
the top of the mountain.
Yes, that is one of my favoriteplaces now to go, all right.
Well, that is one of myfavorite places now to go All
right.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Well, that's a perfect way to close on a very
inspiring conversation.
It's been an honor to meet youand to hear your story, so thank
you so much for coming on theshow and also for all the work
that you do.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Thank you, and I appreciate you guys spotlighting
not just my story but so manystories here in New Jersey about
you know, sometimes aboutpeople that don't necessarily
get the notoriety that theydeserve, but it gives them the
aspect to a platform to be ableto share their story.
So I thank you, ladies, forwhat you do.
Continue the great work thatyou're doing and best of wishes.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Thank you so much, sean.
All right, thanks a lot.
This podcast is produced byRachel Martens and Jeanette
Afsharian.
Please follow us on Facebookand Instagram.
We hope you share this pod withyour friends and family and let
us know what you think.
Check out our website atlostinjerseysite and don't
(41:58):
forget to get lost.
Hi Jeanette, Hi Rachel, we just got off a very
inspiring conversation with Sean.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Simons yes, I'm still on a high from our conversation
with Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Well, there's many documentaries that have been
done, A famous book that waswritten about his experience at
Seton Hall.
There was a fire in January19th 2000, almost 25 years ago.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
In a freshman dorm.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And he and his roommate survived the fire.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But they were very badly burned and went through a
year of rehabilitation and manyother things.
So it was a devastating and, ashe said at the time, it was the
worst dormitory college fire inlike a hundred years.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Because of what they went through, he has become a
public speaker.
He goes to high schools and heand his roommate go together and
talk about what they wentthrough and fire safety
awareness and also talking aboutthings that no one ever thinks
about, you know, when they'reheading into college, about that
(01:04):
safety and also for pranks andpractical jokes, because it was
two fraternity freshmanfraternity kids that did the
prank of setting a banner onfire, a bulletin board banner on
fire that caused the fire.
And he'll tell us about all,about the moments and the events
in this interview and what hehas gone on to do, which, as we
(01:27):
learned towards the end of theinterview, every dormitory in
New Jersey now has a sprinklersystem in every room above their
bed because of what they wentthrough.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yep and unfortunately not every state has that rule,
that's right.
Not even close.
We learn so much and just whata compassionate, resilient,
joyful person Sean is, and hegives back to the community
every single day.
And it's a beautiful story outof something horrible.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, it is.
So, without further ado, here'sthe interview with Sean Simons.
With Sean Simons.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Sean, thank you so much for joining us on Lost in
Jersey.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's a pleasure to meet you, pleasure to meet you
guys, I'm so glad to be here,thank you, thank you.
So I reached out to you becauseI was looking with the fires
that happened in Californiarecently.
I was looking around about firesafety and like maybe trying to
get someone from the New Jerseystate to come talk to us, and
then I saw you on LinkedIn in apicture with, I guess it was, a
(02:33):
New Jersey fire official.
And then I started lookingcloser at your story and I was
like, oh my gosh, will he comeon the podcast?
And you said yes.
So thank you so much forresponding and coming on and to
tell your story.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
First, we always ask people your connection to New
Jersey before we get into thestory was literally eight blocks
away from where I grew up from.
I had been accepted toGeorgetown, to Cornell and, of
(03:08):
course, to Seton Hall and Idecided hey, I want to stay home
, I want to stay in Jersey.
I love it that much.
Plus, I want to stay closer tomy mom and go right up the
street to Seton.
Hall.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And it's a great school and so makes complete
sense.
So you stayed in state and youwent off to college, and this is
where your life completely tooka very significant turn.
Yes, and this is the story thathas been 25 years ago, actually
almost.
You know, a couple of weeks ago, correct that everything
(03:38):
changed.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yes, so yes, january 19, 2000,.
My life as I knew it completelychanged.
It was a fraternity prank goingwrong in our dormitory where
two individuals, at 4.30 in themorning, decided to light a
bulletin board on fire.
And because we had had so manyfalse alarms leading up to this
(03:59):
fire, where students wouldconstantly just pull the alarms
just to ask pranks or to getpeople out the building, we
became very complacent and Ikind of attribute our story to
the story of the boy that criedwolf.
You know, you can cry wolf somany times, but when a wolf
comes, a lot of times you're notprepared, and we weren't
prepared, you know, that nightto be able to get out the
building as far as our safety.
(04:20):
So that's how our lives changedforever, because of that night
our safety.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So that's how our lives change forever because of
that night.
I know you do take your storyaround to schools and to help
especially teenagers who aren'talways thinking clearly when
they do things and aboutconsequences.
You talk about this to schoolsto help educate kids going off
to college or just becoming anadult and how to not set a fire,
but also what to do if there isone.
(04:46):
So will you take us back alittle bit to what that you woke
up to this 430 alarm and whatyou personally were thinking.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So yeah, when I woke up to the sound of the alarms, I
just assumed, once again it wasanother false alarm.
Me and my roommate Alvaro, wekind of took our time.
It was a very, very cold wintermorning.
It was like below freezing, Iknow for a fact.
So we took our time, we gotfully dressed because we didn't
know how long we would have tostand outside before they
allowed us to go back in, andduring that time the fire was
(05:18):
growing larger and larger.
We had no idea that it was areal fire until we opened up the
door and a cloud of smoke justkind of burst into the room.
And at that point in time Ikind of turned around and I said
to Al I said this is the realdeal.
And just because of, I guess,prior learning as a kid some
fire safety stuff that Iremember they say hey, you know,
(05:38):
when there's a lot of smoke,get on your hands and knees and
crawl.
And that's exactly what we did.
But we just didn't know wherewe were crawling.
We didn't realize we werecrawling into the pit of the
fire, which was on the thirdfloor, where our floor was.
I tell people all the time,fire is not like how it looks on
TV.
With this orange glow and youcan see everything and you see
people running around.
It was complete darkness and wedidn't know if the fire was
(06:00):
upstairs, downstairs, insomeone's room.
We just had no idea Fire wasupstairs downstairs in someone's
room.
We just had no idea andunbeknownst to us.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
we crawled directly into it.
I read that you found astairwell and then you then had
to go to another stairwell.
Is that correct?
And your friend Al he's yourroommate at this time and he's
following along with you, Iguess.
And in the second stairwell yousaw that there was fire, but
you realized at that point youhave to just keep going, is that
(06:28):
?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
correct.
Well, not 100% accurate.
I crawled past the firststairwell, which was the way
that we normally went.
If there was just a regularfire alarm, you know, if the
elevators weren't working, wewould take that stairwell.
Like I said, because of thejust the blindness of the smoke,
I actually passed by thatstairwell where Alvaro actually
went that way.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So you didn't see it?
I never saw it.
No, I just kept crawling.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
What I ended up doing was I ended up crawling past
the fire, in essence, intosomeone's dorm room who had left
their door open, and the onlyreason I was able to see that,
you know because I saw like thenightlight from from outside,
because their door was open.
So I crawled into that room andonce I crawled into that room.
I just kind of looked at it andsaid I have to get out of here
because there was so much smokecoming into the room.
(07:15):
So I literally crawled back onmy hands and knees down to an
exit which was on the other endof the building and was able to
get out that way.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And did you feel yourself burned or no, was it?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
No, you know, it was the adrenaline.
There was so much adrenalinepumping, there was the shock of
everything that was going on,that I had no idea that I was
burned.
I felt the heat when I crawledpast the fire.
Fortunately for me, none of myclothing actually caught on fire
, so I didn't have to deal withany of that.
So when I got outside, I stoodup.
I walked outside to the, to thecafeteria which was across from
where our dorm was, and Iliterally was going in there and
(07:54):
someone said to me I think youneed medical attention.
And I'm like, for what you know, I'm not realizing.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I had been burned.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I was in complete shock and I had been burned on
15% of my body.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
My goodness.
And then you got.
When you finally got to themedical attention, did you like
realize how bad it was?
Yet?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
No, you know, when I finally got into an ambulance, I
laid down on a gurney and I'llnever forget the look on the
EMT's face.
He just had a look of almostshock, and I would later find
out that I was the first burnpatient that he had ever picked
up, so it was something new forhim.
Not that he was scared, he wastrained for it, but it was just
(08:34):
a moment of shock for him aswell.
And when I saw that look ofshock on his face I knew at that
point in time something was bad.
I just didn't know the severityof it at that point.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So at that time I mean 50 people plus 50 people
were injured.
Three people died.
What goes through your mind atthat moment when you're at the
ambulance?
You know something's nowhappening for real.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, you know, it's just.
You're just disoriented, you'reconfused.
Remember, this is 430 in themorning, so to be awakened by
this and it be an actual fire isjust kind of alarming.
To see the people justscattering around everywhere and
then starting to see the, butstill also not realizing that I
was as badly hurt as I was, youknow, not only the burns, but I
(09:29):
had suffered an enormous amountof smoke inhalation, which was
actually probably the thing thatwas going to kill me more than
the burns was, and not realizingthat my lungs were starting to
kind of shut down at that point.
But it was just the adrenalinethat just kept me going that I
didn't even process it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And so then you get to the hospital and they inform
your family, I'm assuming rightaway.
I mean, what do you rememberwhen you first saw your mom?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yes.
So I was sent up to St Barnabas, to the burn unit there in
Livingston, and they said that Iwas conscious when I got to the
emergency room no-transcript.
(10:33):
So I had a breathing tube downmy throat and wasn't able to
communicate fully with them.
But it was just a, I think, arelief to be able to see some
loved ones, but not realizingstill at that point in time that
it had been three weeks, like Ithought it was the next day,
and not realizing I had been ina coma for that long.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Do you remember the initial feelings when you start
to understand or start toprocess as you come out of the
coma and your family is thereand I'm sure that they're
distraught.
I mean, I guess you know whatis the environment like and how
are you responding to such atragic event now that you're on
this other side of it, comingout of the coma?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, you know it was a I don't know it was a sense
of, I guess I was.
I was definitely scared I wasbecause I was in an unknown
place.
I actually woke up when they Iguess they started weaning me
out of the coma.
I woke up inside what's calledthe tank room, which is a sort
of the room where they do thedebriding of your skin and they
wash you up on a daily basis sothat you don't get the infection
(11:36):
and it can change your wounds.
So I woke up on the table insidethe tank room and immediately,
as soon as I was able to, youknow, gain a little strength,
like I hugged the first person Isaw and it's actually funny
because there was the StarLegend newspaper covered our
recovery after the fire and thephotographer was in the tank
room with me the first time Iwoke up and he had this
(11:57):
beautiful picture of me reachingto hug one of the nurses who
was cleaning me at the time andI was just.
I knew that there was such.
I knew that there was some typeof tragic thing that happened.
I didn't know at that point theseverity of you know the fact
that we had lost classmates andstuff, but I knew I had been
injured and I was just sothankful that somebody was there
to just touch it at that point.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
It was, you know.
Like I said, it's a great shot,and especially in the context
of what was happening.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I've seen those photos and it is.
They're very moving.
Many documentaries have beenmade about this event and
Pulitzer Prize books have beenwritten on what all you went
through and what everybody hadgone through.
How did you find your way going, you know, coming back out of
this dark place?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, you know, going through a traumatic experience
is different for everyone.
For me, I have to reallyattribute a lot of it to my
support system between my family, my friends, the Seton Hall
community itself, the nurses,the doctors Like they were
everybody was championing,championing us to recover.
I always say that our story isunique because of where it
(13:09):
happened, because it happenedhere in New Jersey, being so
close to New York City, themedia coverage that it received,
the fact that this had been oneof the deadliest college
dormitory fires in over ahundred years, that it just got
so much publicity and attentionfocused on it that it ended up
helping us in a sense, becausewe started to like get letters
(13:30):
and cards from kids all over thecountry.
People would be sending youknow, and this is, this is you
know, kind of pre, like we werejust at the stage of having cell
phones and stuff like that.
So you know, still, snail mailwas a big thing.
It wasn't like a lot of emailsand stuff like that.
But it was incredible to wakeup and look on my room wall and
see the cards from people allover the country just saying,
(13:54):
hey, we heard about yoursituation, we're praying for you
, we're there for you, wesupport you.
That was huge in the recoveryprocess just knowing that people
cared.
There were so many people who,I think, started to relate their
situation and life to ours,like in a condition of living in
a dorm before where fire alarmshad went off and people took
(14:16):
them as jokes and or didn'tevacuate when they heard them
and they said, looked and said,wow, that could have been me.
that happened not at Seton Hallbut at any campus across the
country and I think a lot ofpeople the story really hit home
for them.
That said, you know what are wedoing in this country to
protect young adults who areliving on college campuses?
(14:37):
And you know, I always, like Isaid, I think that sometimes we
have to have tragedy happeningin order to figure out a way to
prevent it from happening in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Right.
Well, you know, I think peoplewho are listening in the stories
new about this prior to theinterview of how the system is.
It's a little tricky because weunderstand that their attorneys
kind of told them to not speakabout it so they didn't display
a lot of remorse for many yearsand they held the the case for a
long time.
So that part of the case is kindof a it's hard, it's a hard
(15:36):
part of it of like trying to getthe message through to people
you know you've got thesefraternity kids doing a prank.
It's very cliche, you know likefraternity brothers and then
them not really owning up andshowing the remorse that you
need, as opposed to the so manypeople taking the time to write
(15:59):
a letter to you and care aboutyou and then seeing that there
are again sometimes maybe somepeople that can't find that.
Does that still sit with you inlife like that polar kind of
situation?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Well, you know, I always say that I believe that
these two guys didn't do thisintentionally to hurt anybody or
kill anybody.
I think they got drunk.
They made a really, really baddecision and this was the result
of it.
As you said, we never got theopportunity to really hear from
them, mainly because of theadvice of their counsel, and
(16:29):
even to this day we have neverheard from them.
They've never reached out to usto kind of apologize, and I
always say I don't necessarilyneed an apology from them.
I always say that my mother andmy father had a chance to come
to the hospital to see if I wasgoing to make it.
Three of our classmates, frank,john and Aaron.
Their parents didn't get thatopportunity.
Their parents got that phonecall that morning and said they
(16:49):
had to come identify theirchildren's bodies.
They were the ones I wish thatthey would have apologized to
and I think people would havebeen able to have a little bit
more closure even though I don'tthink you ever get closure from
losing a child but I think theprocess would have been of
healing would have started a loteasier.
As you mentioned, for thistrial to be delayed almost seven
years after the fire, it wasjust like pouring salt in the
(17:12):
wound.
They were out free, livingtheir lives, doing whatever they
wanted to do, and all of thesefamilies were suffering with
either losing a loved one or wewere suffering with the you know
care that we had to.
You know the recovery process.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
And they really showed no remorse and to me that
was almost a slap in the face,especially as you mentioned the
shortness of the period of timethat they had to spend in jail.
I know, like I said, theydidn't, their intentions weren't
to commit murder, but you knowthey also.
I think they deserve more timethan what they got, and it is.
(17:47):
You know, it is our justicesystem that sometimes shows
favor to some and not to others.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
But you know it is what it is.
I mean, I can't go back andchange what they did.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I can only live with the fact of you know who I am
and how I've become strongerbecause of what they did been
the one that has gone out toteach people and to make changes
and help the community increasethe laws for fire safety within
dormitories and sprinklersystems and things like that.
(18:18):
Tell us about this road toadvocacy.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Sure, so that there was a void in teaching young
adults about the importance offire safety and fire prevention
when I was a college freshmanand I remember starting at Seton
Hall, maybe one of the RAs sayssomething in a floor meeting
about hey, you know, exit thebuilding when a fire alarm goes
off.
And that probably was it, youknow.
But remember, and to me Ialways say this and it's you
(18:44):
know, it's unfortunate thatsometimes you have young adults
kind of leading young adults ona college campus.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
You have a 20-year-old, 21-year-old, trying
to teach Responsible.
Yeah, responsible trying toteach an 18-year-old what to do,
and nine times out of 10,especially when you're a
freshman you're not listening toanybody, you're just kind of
doing your own thing and youjust you know.
And I saw a void in being ableto communicate to young adults
about the importance of firesafety and fire prevention, but
(19:17):
also that they also needed tohear an inspiring story about
overcoming adversity, especiallyat a young age.
I mean, you know, I wasn't.
I never in a million yearswould have thought that this
would have happened to me at theage of 18, as a college
freshman, but it did and I hadto embrace it and I had to
realize that.
You know, there are a lot ofpeople who can benefit from
hearing our story, hearing whatwe went through and how, the
(19:40):
resiliency of what we wentthrough, and realizing
especially traveling across thecountry, going to different
colleges and high schools,talking to young adults that
they are experiencing a lot of,you know, hardships and
adversities and obstacles andchallenges.
It may not be a fire, but it'ssomething that they can learn.
You know how we were able topersevere through it, how they
(20:00):
can learn how to use the supportsystems around them to make
their lives a lot better.
And I just thought it wassomething that you know, like I
said, coming from ourperspective, coming from a
actual person who survived adorm fire, especially speaking
to those who are going to livein that environment, not only
talking about the adversityaspect of it, but the
consequences of your actions andhow, you know, even joining a
(20:22):
fraternity or sorority we hearall these stories about, you
know things going wrong and howit changes not only the person
you know that you're doing it to, but it also affects your life
as well.
You know those two guys.
When they set that fire ascollege freshmen, I'm quite sure
they didn't think that theywould ever become felons because
of what they did at the age of18.
(20:42):
They're felons now for the restof their life because of that
prank.
To be able to get that messageacross to thousands and
thousands of young adults acrossthe country is fulfilling for
me because I get thatopportunity to show them both
sides of it and you know they'revery thankful for me sharing my
story with them.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I'm sure I mean and like you said it's, it's
relatable even you know in somany different ways it does.
It's not just about fire.
It's really about, like yousaid, personal responsibility.
As you get older and also onthe other side of that, you know
what you do if you are in asituation where you need to
overcome and you need to dependon other people, a community, to
help you through.
That's really beautiful whatyou are able to do.
(21:29):
I'm sure Do you get people inthat want to talk to you
afterwards and come up to youafter the assembly, or yeah, it
gets a little overwhelmingsometimes.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
You know, I'm sure some schools, you know we, like
I said, speak at here in NewJersey.
We speak at over 100 highschools every single year.
And in addition to that, wespeak at probably another 50 to
75 high schools and collegesacross the country and there has
not been a time, when wefinished the assembly, where
students don't want to stickaround and come and ask
additional questions or justcome and give us a hug or take
(22:01):
pictures.
You know it's, it's.
It shows the value of what wedo, that it's making a
difference.
It's making a difference Evenfor those kids who are not that
social and don't necessarilywant to come up and say
something.
Then, as soon as we get to thecar, as soon as we get home and
we check our Instagram page,there's a ton of people just
leaving comments and messagesthat you know.
(22:21):
They say hey, I wanted to comeup and talk to you but the line
was too long or I was too shy,but I just wanted to say thank
you, or I'm going through thisin my life and your story helped
me.
So it's so fulfilling to knowthat you know, through our story
, that we're making a differencein so many people's lives.
And just to hear a lot of kidswho say, as I was getting ready
to graduate and go off tocollege, I was thinking about
(22:43):
tuition, I was thinking aboutwhat classes I was going to take
, who my roommate was going tobe.
I never thought about my safetyand you opened up my eyes to
that.
To me, that is the mostfulfilling thing to hear from a
young adult.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
That is very powerful , absolutely, because I mean, I
think we all forget about thesimplest thing.
It was just making sure thatyou're OK.
We're caught up in all theother stuff.
What are some of the questions?
I'm curious that you get acommon question like that.
You get from these students.
That seems to be maybe it seemsit's really simple, but it's
what comes to the mind.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
It's not a simple question, but we get a lot of
times we get the question aboutforgiveness Were we able to
forgive the guys who set thefire?
We a lot of times get thequestion about what was it like
being in a coma.
I think people have a curiosityof people being in comas and
whether you know people can hearthem or you know, I think just
(23:37):
a lot of things.
Just we get that question aboutyou know, what was it like to
go back to school and go?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
back on campus.
Yeah, I was going to ask that.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, yes, please answer all the above.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
All right.
So let's start with theforgiveness question that we
normally get asked from thestudents.
For me, like I said,forgiveness took.
Forgiveness took about 10 yearsfor me to actually really truly
be able to forgive them.
And that actually came from aconversation I was having with
my mother about learning how tolet go and move on.
And I said to my mom I said,well, that's easier said than
(24:10):
done.
You know, when I have to wake upevery morning, I have to look
at the scars on my hand.
I have the memories ofeverything I've gone through
because of what these two guysdid to me.
How can I just, you know, letit go?
And she said well, she says youhave all this hate in your
heart towards these two guys andguess what?
They're out of jail now, doingwhatever they're doing, and
(24:30):
they're probably not thinkingabout you a single second of the
day.
So you dedicating that negativeenergy towards them is probably
one of the worst things thatyou could be doing, because it's
just hurting you.
And when she said it to me likethat it made all the sense in
the world.
And a lot of times in life wesay, oh, we hate a person, we
can't stand the person, and ninetimes out of 10, that person is
(24:58):
not thinking about you a singlesecond of the day.
So it was that process of beingable to learn how to let go and
just kind of move on and it was.
You know it wasn't an easyprocess, but it was something
that I got through.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Well, that's really brilliant that she said that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I kind of needed to hear that myself, just for you
know, like everyday life.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
You know it's such a good piece of you know wisdom,
and it doesn't do anything tothe person we want to channel it
to.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Even if they are thinking about us, you know it
doesn't help us at all, so thatthat is a very wise thing that
your mother imparted upon you.
Now, the other question waswhat is it like to be in a coma?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
that you just are, you just asleep, you know, you
just so from my personalexperience being in a coma yes,
it was just a long sleep, butalso not knowing that I was
asleep because of the fact thatit's you're putting to a
medically induced coma.
They always say that some ofthe drugs that they give you are
make you have some really weirddreams, and I do remember that
(25:53):
I did have a number of reallycrazy dreams.
But, like I said, when I wokeup, you know, my parents said
that hey, they used to playmusic for me all the time and
that I had all these people comeinto the hospital to see me
talk to me.
I don't recall anybody talkingto me.
I don't recall any music beingin play, I just remember the
dreams that I was in.
(26:17):
But what I tell people all thetime is that if you know
somebody that is in a coma, ifyou know somebody you know,
don't that person still alive?
It's not like they're dead, youknow.
So go and talk to them.
And we have heard differentreactions from different people
who have been in comas over theyears, where people have been
able to, like, squeeze a hand oryou know bat an eye or
something.
Just in my case.
I just don't recall doing anyof that and you know my family
said they don't recall me likehaving any type of movements,
(26:38):
when they were talking to me ina coma.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, so the last question was going back to
school.
How did that?
First of all, how?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
long did it take before you went back to school
and then did you want to go backto Seton Hall or did you feel a
little nervous about going backto the same place?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
So I was in the hospital for a little bit over a
month, and then I had to prettymuch go back to the hospital
every single day for a full yearand do occupational and
physical therapy.
So because the fire happened inJanuary, I pretty much missed
that whole semester.
When classes started back up inSeptember, I asked my doctor
would it be okay for me to kindof break up the monotony of just
(27:20):
going to the hospital every day?
I want to take a class or twojust to kind of get the feel of
it.
He kind of suggested that Iwait a full year and go back.
But I didn't listen.
I wanted to go back and youknow, I just I felt I was ready
and I wanted to go back to SetonHall because that was the place
that I had always envisionedthat I would get my education
from.
You know, I remember as a kidriding by Seton Hall's campus
(27:44):
and seeing everybody out on thegreen and just seeing.
You know how much fun it lookedlike people were having at the
school.
Then to grow up and realize thehow great Seton Hall was.
I, that was home to me and Iwanted to make sure that I got
my degree.
I promised my mom that I wouldget my degree from there.
You know now I didn't go backand stay on campus, of course,
but I wanted to make sure that Iwent back there.
(28:06):
And I always also felt that ifI would have transferred to
another school.
It would have been a lot harderon me as far as being accepted,
because people may not haveknown my story At Seton Hall
everybody knew who I was.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
That's what I was going to say.
That you were.
You were kind of famous In asense Right.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So you know, even though I had only been on campus
for a semester and I had a lotof friends, you know,
upperclassmen and in my class aswell, but there was a whole
slew of incoming freshmen whowere on campus now, but
everybody knew the story,everybody knew who we were.
And I just remember on day one,walking through campus and I
(28:44):
was walking to one of my classesand just groups of kids just
coming up to me saying, hey, Iknow you don't know who we are,
but I know who you are, we knowyour story, we're so glad that
you're back here on campusgiving me hugs, offering to.
You know, I'm doing anythingthat I needed to be done.
It was just like it was likebeing at home.
And I know I wouldn't have gotthat same feeling if I would
have went somewhere else where Iwould have had to kind of
(29:05):
explain what happened to me.
And, like I said, seton Hallwas my home and it still is my
home.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, that's so nice and I hadn't thought of it like
that, but it was good to havepeople who understood that you
had been through something andbe so supportive and
understanding and loving.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
There were 600 of us in that building that night and
I always say there are 600different stories of how that
night affected people.
Not only that, you also have tolook at just the campus in a
whole.
I mean, there were people whowere in other dorms who were
just frightened to death becausethey had either lived in Boland
before or, you know, they wereafraid that it could happen
(29:45):
inside of their dorm.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Over the years I have met a number of those people
who live in that building,whether they were injured from
due to smoke inhalation, ofcourse, all the other burn
survivors I have a really greatrelationship with saw smoke but
(30:08):
saw the aftermath of what wasgoing on and how they said that
you know no-transcript.
And to see the people comingout the building with soot all
over their face and peoplecrying, and you know just the
chaos that was happening oncampus that morning.
People have been scarred bythis a lot more than what I
(30:32):
would have ever expected.
I think in life we have thiscriteria that if you're the
person who goes throughsomething, then you're the only
person who can feel any type oftrauma, and that's not always
the case, because there arepeople who through something,
then you're the only person whocan feel any type of trauma, and
that's not always the case,because there are people who you
know weren't directly affected,but they were around and they
(30:55):
have trauma behind it as well.
So it's incredible over theyears I've been able to connect
with people either on LinkedInor through social media, or even
just now that maybe I speak attheir kid' high school and they
go home and they tell theirparents hey, we saw this program
about the Seton Hall fire,didn't you go there?
And they're like, yeah, I wasthere that night.
And so the crazy connectionthat happens, especially here in
Jersey.
It really paints a greatpicture of the dynamics, of how
(31:18):
it changed so many people'sperspectives on lives.
I've met people who they say nowwhen they hear a fire alarm
even at their workplace, they'relike begging people to get out
the building because you justnever know if it's a real alarm.
And they say, well, you know, Iexperienced this as a college
freshman when I was there.
I didn't get hurt, but you know, I have friends that did and
(31:38):
now it kind of is a chainreaction type of thing.
Do get a lot of people who cometo us and say you look, I'm
going through this and yourstory helped me.
Or sometimes we get people thatsay you know, what I'm going
through in life is not as bad aswhat you're going through.
And I always try to tell themdon't devalue what you're going
through in life.
Like, your adversity is youradversity.
Mine was what I went through,but it's about how you persevere
(32:00):
through it, how you get throughit.
You know, yes, we can use thosesame you know tools to kind of
get through it, but don't don'tever dumb down in the sense what
your your, what your obstaclein life is.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Is it hard for you to keep retelling the story
sometimes?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
No, you know what I always tell myself.
I signed up for this.
In life, when you go through atraumatic situation, either you
do one of two things.
Either you decide to push itaway and say, look, I've gone
through it, I don't want to talkabout it anymore, I just want
to move on, and you know, therest of my life is the way it is
.
Or you embrace it and you sitthere and say how can I use what
I've gone through in order tohelp other people?
(32:37):
And I decided to do the latter,and I think that has been a
very therapeutic thing for me tobe able to do this.
You know, for years now.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And you don't do this alone.
You do it along with Al.
Is that correct, your roommate?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yes, yes, so I have the advantage of working with my
roommate almost every day.
You know, I always say that weprobably have one of the best
roommate stories in the world.
So what we've gone through.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Wow, I guess that is definitely a way to look at it.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And not only from the aspect of at Seton Hall, but we
were sort of roommates at StBarnabas at the hospital
together.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
You know, so we, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
I tell people and people get a laugh out of this
Like I spend more time with Almost times during the course of
the year than I do with my wife,which is a little disappointing
.
But my wife understands thepurpose of our mission.
She understands, you know, theadvocacy that we're trying to do
, the lives that we're trying tochange.
You know and I wouldn't want todo it with any other person we
(33:48):
are like the yin to each other,yang.
In a sense we are completeopposites.
I'm very outgoing, I love to bethe life of the party, and
Alice is so reserved and laidback and quiet, but it works.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I need to see that movie.
I haven't seen it myself, but Iknow that it's shown through
schools.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
We saw the trailer and that, even just the trailer,
is wow.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
the producer, guido Verweyen he is a documentarian
from California and he said hewas walking into Barnes and
Nobles one day and he waslooking for books of inspiration
(34:28):
and he saw that our book was upon the shelf.
He bought five books that day.
He said he liked the way thatthe cover of our book looked and
he took the book home.
He read that book and one dayhe called the author of our book
, robin Gabby Fisher, the nextday and said these two guys are
incredible.
The story is incredible.
I want to make a documentary onit.
(34:49):
He flew out on the 10 yearanniversary of the fires when we
met him.
He flew out to here to NewJersey, to Seton Hall, at the
Memorial Mass that we have oncampus on January 19th and he
started filming from that pointand then kind of went backwards,
january 19th, and he startedfilming from that point and then
kind of went backwards, beingable to utilize the pictures
(35:09):
from the Star Legend newspaper,being able to interview a lot of
the people who were involvedwith it you know, 10 years later
at that point but being able tointerview our parents and our
friends and the investigatorsand put together this
beautifully, this beautifuldocumentary that really
showcases the emotion of whateverybody was going through, and
what it does is.
It gives us the opportunity to,especially to younger adults.
(35:31):
It gives them that visual thatsometimes they need, as opposed
to just going into an auditoriumand saying, hey, this happened
to me.
Now they could actually see thewhole process of what was going
on, and it gives us thatopportunity to really it
resonates more with them whenthey can see that process.
Yeah, yeah, I bet, I bet, andthen see you today, and then see
(35:52):
us today Exactly, and a lot oftimes it's funny because even
sometimes after the program,some of the kids are like, wow,
I didn't even realize as I waswatching that that you were the
guys who are you know, becauseyou guys look so good now and in
the film, you know you werescarred, you know, and going
through that whole process, andI'm like, yeah, so this is a you
know, a proven fact that, yeah,we've come from that and now
(36:12):
look where we are now, where wecan kind of give back and share
our story to help others.
So our book After the Fire is aNew York Times bestselling book.
You know.
We've been all over the country, you know, doing book signings
and all kinds of things.
Like it has given us theopportunities for, especially to
be a Jersey boy, to see therest of the country, parts of
(36:33):
the country that I never, ever,would have, you know, probably
even considered going to.
And I'm a traveler, I lovetraveling, I like to travel
internationally.
But this fire and what hasbecome because of it, has given
me the opportunity to see somuch of this great country that
we have here, and all because ofthis fire that happened 25
years ago.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Everybody's got to.
You know.
Get the book, watch thedocumentary yes, how do people
get you?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
coming to their school, awesome, so.
So we are accessible in anumber of ways.
I mean, we have a very, verylarge social media presence.
Okay, our social media, ourInstagram page, is Alvaro and
Sean, and so if you are tryingto contact us, you can
definitely go through that.
We have our website, which isalandshawncom.
(37:19):
You can reach us through there.
We mainly get to high schoolsthrough fire departments.
Fortunately, all collegesacross this country still don't
have fire sprinklers in them,which is sad, you know, and it's
unfortunate.
New Jersey is one of threestates across this country that
does have mandatory firesprinklers in all the
dormitories, which means whenevery kid goes to sleep at
(37:40):
nighttime and they look abovetheir head, there's going to be
a fire sprinklers in all thedormitories, which means when
every kid goes to sleep atnighttime and they look above
their head, there's going to bea fire sprinkler.
That's because of what happenedto us at Seton.
Hall.
I have a son that goes toRutgers, new Brunswick.
Right now.
He's in his sophomore year andyou know I say that to him all
the time.
I'm like you know you and yourfriends are protected at night
when you go to sleep because ofwhat happened to us.
(38:01):
I have an older son who goes toschool in North Carolina and
when he moved in on campus, whenwe moved him into his dorm, I
looked up and I saw that therewere no fire sprinklers and I
told him there was no way I'mallowing you to stay in this
building without fire sprinklers.
And he completely understoodwhere I was coming from.
But how many parents think toask that question?
(38:22):
How many students?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
do that, not me.
I didn't ask.
I have two kids in college Now.
I'm going to call them and askthem to look up.
I didn't even think of that.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Yeah, so how many kids think about that?
When you're going on collegetours, you don't ask that
question Like nobody no.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You know, Two, it should just be there Somebody
you know it should.
So thank you for doing that forthe New Jersey students.
Yes, that's an amazing thing,you about New Jersey, absolutely
.
Thank you for being a verygreat representative of New
Jersey around the country, andso, but for you, what do you
(39:12):
love about New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
There's a lot of things I love about New Jersey.
Like I said, being a Jersey boyall my life going to high
school, going to college here,living here, still having the
opportunity to travel, like Isaid, the country to do After
the Fire presentations andtravel the world with my wife,
jersey is home to me.
I love the.
I love, I guess, the diversityof New Jersey.
(39:33):
I love the division of NewJersey.
I love North Jersey versusSouth Jersey, the whole Kim
versus.
Pork Roll thing.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I love you know, even when it comes to I'm a
big sports fanatic.
Yeah, I love you know, evenwhen it comes to I'm a big
sports fanatic.
I love the fact that you knowSouth Jersey is is Phillies and
we're Giants and Jets up here.
Like I just love that where youknow we have such great
diversity in the state where alot of other states don't people
(39:56):
that live in other states don'tget that.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
No, you're right, I hadn't thought about it, even
sports wise.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Yeah, it's so dynamic that we have, you know, so much
going on in this little state.
You know I love, especiallybeing a North Jersey person.
I love the closeness of beingable to get into New York City
but also get back home at theend of the night yeah exactly, I
love that.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We love that also.
It's like great to be able togo, but then you're so psyched
at the end of the night Best ofboth worlds.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
All right.
What place do you like to eatat?
What is one of your go-to spots?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
One of my go-to spots .
I would have to say that whatwas actually a newer go-to spot
for me now that we are really,really in love with is, in West
Orange, the Chit Chat Diner.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Chit Chat Diner.
I love the Chit Chat Diner.
I've never been there.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Right across from Eagle Rock.
The reservation up there.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, it's like it has a great view.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah the great view of.
You can look clear over to NewYork City from up there right on
the top of the mountain.
Yes, that is one of my favoriteplaces now to go, all right.
Well, that is one of myfavorite places now to go All
right.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Well, that's a perfect way to close on a very
inspiring conversation.
It's been an honor to meet youand to hear your story, so thank
you so much for coming on theshow and also for all the work
that you do.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Thank you, and I appreciate you guys spotlighting
not just my story but so manystories here in New Jersey about
you know, sometimes aboutpeople that don't necessarily
get the notoriety that theydeserve, but it gives them the
aspect to a platform to be ableto share their story.
So I thank you, ladies, forwhat you do.
Continue the great work thatyou're doing and best of wishes.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Thank you so much, sean.
All right, thanks a lot.
This podcast is produced byRachel Martens and Jeanette
Afsharian.
Please follow us on Facebookand Instagram.
We hope you share this pod withyour friends and family and let
us know what you think.
Check out our website atlostinjerseysite and don't
(41:58):
forget to get lost.
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