Ep. #186: Sancho Panza Belicosos (w/ Cave L' Aurance Cremant de Bourgogne Brut, Debating the Future of Cuban Cigars on the Podcast, Senator's Search for Budget Sparkling Wine, Getting a Spouse to Support Buying Cigars & Bane Joins the Program)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gizmo (02:14):
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by
Fabrica five. It's so good tohave you here. It's a leisure
and lifestyle podcast founded onour love of premium cigars as
well as whiskey travel, food,work, and whatever else we feel
like getting into. My name isGizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by
Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, chefRicky, and Bam Bam.
And our plan is to smoke acigar, drink some sparkling

(02:35):
wine, talk about life, and, ofcourse, have some laughs. So
take this as your one hundredand eighty sixth official
invitation to join us and becomea card carrying lounge lizard.
Plan to meet us here once aweek. We're gonna smoke a Cuban
cigar tonight, share ourthoughts on it, and give you our
formal lizard rating. One of thelast remaining Cuban marquettes
makes its debut tonight.
We answer a listener email onbudgeting for cigar purchases,

(02:58):
and we open up a discussion onthe future of Cuban cigars on
this podcast, all among avariety of other things for the
next two hours. So sit back, getyour favorite drink, light up a
cigar, enjoy as we pair CobbLaurent's Burgundy Cremant with
the Sancho Panza bellicosas. ACuban bellicosso on the pod
tonight from Sancho Panza, andit's a debut. It's a 52 ring

(03:19):
gauge cigar by five and a halfinches long. Its factory name is
a Campanas.
And boys, I would say out of allthe Cuban cigars we've not
smoked, this is probably

Bam Bam (03:29):
One of the ugly.

Gizmo (03:30):
The number one the number one listener requested. Yeah.
And I've gotten a lot of emails,folks excited about us smoking
this cigar tonight. So here weare tonight with this very
simple Sancho Panza delle Cosos.

Bam Bam (03:43):
I'm excited to smoke it. I think it's gonna be good,
but it does not look good.

Rooster (03:48):
Why? I mean, it looks like a Monty too.

Chef Ricky (03:50):
This thing looks like it was built with the
pyramids. With the old silverkingdoms.

Bam Bam (03:54):
It's got of a box pressed. Looks like a rhombus.
It's got rounded edges andsquare at the same time.

Chef Ricky (04:00):
And got buds all over the place.

Bam Bam (04:02):
Yeah. A lot of dents and dings and, you know.

Gizmo (04:05):
I think the band was hand cut with the guy with a little
pair of scissors.

Bam Bam (04:09):
In backyard.

Gizmo (04:10):
Yeah, Pagoda's backyard.

Rooster (04:12):
Kinda looks like-

Chef Ricky (04:13):
Using Giza scissors. It looks like

Rooster (04:17):
my left leg with varicose veins.

Chef Ricky (04:19):
Oh, boy. That's an edit. TMI. TMI. No.
That's not an edit. TMI.

Gizmo (04:25):
Alright, boys. Let's cut this thing. See, we're getting
on the cold draw and thewrapper.

Senator (04:30):
I can't wait for that listener that sent in those,
like, AI generated images. Addvaricose veins to roosters'
legs.

Rooster (04:38):
I'm getting them fixed next week.

Bam Bam (04:41):
My cold draw is wide open.

Gizmo (04:44):
I had to do a second cut. My first cut, I was getting
almost no draw.

Bam Bam (04:49):
Same. Yeah. It took about an eighth of an inch. Nice
open draw.

Gizmo (04:54):
Now I'm in good shape here.

Chef Ricky (04:55):
Yeah. Great open draw. Not a whole lot of flavor
on the cauldron. I'm getting alittle bit of cedar maybe.

Bam Bam (05:01):
Not even that for me.

Chef Ricky (05:02):
The aroma on the foot here, a little bit of hay,
some dryness, coffee. It mightbe because some of you guys are
drinking some coffee that I'mgetting some coffee notes here,
but it's really just kinda hayand really light cedar.

Bam Bam (05:15):
He's Superman, Didn't you know?

Senator (05:18):
I don't know. I might have gotten lucky. My He

Pagoda (05:23):
could tell a nuance of a drink

Bam Bam (05:25):
from halfway across the room.
I'm passing the song. Container, no less.

Senator (05:35):
I might have got lucky. My cold draw is wide open,
perfect draw.

Pagoda (05:39):
Mhmm.

Senator (05:40):
And I'm actually getting a decent amount of
flavor on mine. I I get thecedar that you mentioned, but I
also get a little bit of cocoa.It at least tastes promising on
the cold draw.

Bam Bam (05:48):
Very faint for me.

Gizmo (05:49):
Yeah. Cocoa's absent for me here.

Chef Ricky (05:51):
Yeah. Same.

Rooster (05:52):
You do get that cedar.

Bam Bam (05:54):
Yeah. Not me. Wish I got something. Alright,

Gizmo (05:59):
boys. Let's light this thing. The Sancho Panza
bellicosos. 52 ring gauge cigarby five and one half inches
long. Again, its factory name isthe Campanas.
For smokers out there who likeCupid cigars, this is an
identical cigar in size andshape to, of course, the Bolivar

(06:20):
Bellicosos Finos Mhmm. And theRomeo y Julieta Bellicosos as
well as a bunch of otherregional special limited cigars
that have been put out over theyears. But there are three
Bellicosos in regularproduction. This, the Bolivar,
and the Romeo y Julieta.

Bam Bam (06:37):
Is this a young cigar?

Gizmo (06:38):
It is not. This cigar's box date and code is
GRMDecember2019 from aprovincial in the province of
Artemisia.

Chef Ricky (06:49):
That explains the verrucous veins.

Bam Bam (06:51):
I have to say, all jokes aside, this is delicious
off the lights.

Senator (06:57):
I agree with Bem.

Bam Bam (06:58):
It is outstanding. Wow. Mhmm.

Gizmo (07:00):
That is good. Wow.

Chef Ricky (07:01):
It's funny, the first couple draws didn't didn't
yield much, but then at aboutthe fourth draw, started getting
some really intense flavor. It'sridiculous.

Gizmo (07:09):
That is It's creamy. Creamy. Mhmm. It's like a
milkshake.

Senator (07:14):
I was get it's milk chocolate as well.

Chef Ricky (07:15):
I was

Senator (07:16):
getting on the cold draw.

Chef Ricky (07:16):
Oh, this is gonna be so

Bam Bam (07:18):
Yeah. There's dairy and milk and Coffee. Coffee and
chocolate.

Rooster (07:23):
Milk is dairy.

Gizmo (07:25):
Don't forget, he doesn't go to the grocery store, so he's
not he doesn't know where it hasdairy.

Senator (07:29):
Milk is $14.99.

Chef Ricky (07:32):
That's a gallon. Oh, yeah. It's like a chocolate
coffee milkshake or

Bam Bam (07:41):
I'm sorry.

Chef Ricky (07:41):
What year is this? 02/2019.

Gizmo (07:44):
Fantastic cigar so far. Yeah. So this is just over five
years of age. It's about fiveand a half years of age at this
point on this cigar.

Bam Bam (07:52):
Do we know what this retails for?

Gizmo (07:53):
So right now you get this cigar for between 28 and $30 a
cigar.

Bam Bam (07:57):
Yeah. I was a

Gizmo (07:58):
So the box is approaching, you know, $700, 7
hundred 50 bucks.

Bam Bam (08:03):
Kind of the going rate now?

Gizmo (08:04):
Yeah. Unfortunately. And we have to shout out OG
listener, Lizard O out inCalifornia. Nice. Hooked us up
with these cigars tonight.
Very kind of him. I wasstruggling to find them, and
we're gonna talk about that in alittle bit. Oh, yeah. But I was
really struggling to find thesecigars for quite some time, and
he came through for us. And I'mvery appreciative because he's

(08:25):
allowed us to have this cigartime.

Rooster (08:27):
And he casually mentioned he only has four
boxes.

Gizmo (08:29):
Only four.

Chef Ricky (08:30):
Only four.

Gizmo (08:30):
He's almost out.

Pagoda (08:31):
Well, he sounds like bam.

Bam Bam (08:34):
Not recently.

Senator (08:35):
I feel like I'm smoking a Padron torpedo. There's a box
pressed to this Yeah. Of thembeing packed in that dress box.

Gizmo (08:40):
Stuffed in that dress box.

Chef Ricky (08:42):
And the combustion of this is phenomenal. Yeah. The
smoke in the room, the smokecoming off of everyone's cigar
right now, it's The retrohale isso good.

Gizmo (08:50):
This is really great.

Bam Bam (08:51):
Excellent.

Gizmo (08:52):
I am blown away. I mean, you can certainly taste the age
on it. No But it is such acomplex, smooth Creamy. Creamy
cigar.

Bam Bam (09:00):
Yeah. Delicious cigar. Keeps your attention.

Rooster (09:02):
It also has that saltiness.

Pagoda (09:04):
It does. Has

Gizmo (09:10):
anyone in the room had this cigar before?

Senator (09:12):
Never. I have.

Gizmo (09:14):
I've had one and it did not perform like this.

Chef Ricky (09:16):
Same.

Gizmo (09:17):
This is night and day versus the one I had. It was
certainly younger when I had itthan this one is.

Bam Bam (09:22):
Yeah.

Gizmo (09:22):
You know, this one's five and a half years aged almost,
but

Bam Bam (09:25):
This is kind of like an obscure marker for me. I'd love
to, you know, smoke more ofthese. Can't get your hands on
them.

Pagoda (09:32):
Yeah. No. I said considering the price and
obviously not hearing of it likeother regular. Like for me, I've
never really followed this orwanted to have this or try it.
It'd be very difficult for me toput up $30 a day.

Gizmo (09:45):
Sure. To try it. And it, you know, not that you wanna
judge a book by its cover, butas we discussed when we opened
the episode here, it's notpresenting itself as being
something that is elegant in itslook or the band isn't really
interesting. The boxers are veryboring. You know?
So I I understand exactly whatyou're saying, Pagoda. If you

(10:06):
walk into a shop and you don'tknow what this is

Bam Bam (10:08):
Yeah. You'd have to know.

Gizmo (10:09):
You'd have to know because you're gonna reach for
one of those brands that you doknow. Or you see a punch or you
see the El Rey del Mundo, ifyou're not familiar with those
outside the global brands, like,you'd probably reach for those
over this because this isn'tvery fancy. You know, it's not
very flashy. So this is the onlycigar technically in regular
production right now in SanchoPonza. There is one other cigar

(10:33):
that is kind of up in the air asto whether or not it is still in
regular production.
It's called the non plusAmarevas Petite Corona, 42 ring
gauge by five and one eighthsinches long. That cigar was
discontinued in 2019. The Cupidcigar community aficionados that
love that cigar were reallypanicked about it. And then all
of a sudden, they startedpopping back up again in the

(10:55):
last two years. But,technically, it is still
discontinued, so I don't know ifwe're gonna see any more of the
Sancho Panza non plus.
So this Bellicosos, just likethat Diplomaticos we smoked two
weeks ago, is the only cigar inregular production for Sancho
Panza, which is pretty weird.Sad. That you have two marcus
now in Cuba. There's more thanthat, actually, but you have two

(11:17):
marcus now in Cuba that onlyhave one cigar

Bam Bam (11:21):
Mhmm.

Gizmo (11:21):
In regular production.

Bam Bam (11:23):
Very strange.

Gizmo (11:24):
Very odd. And they have a ton of discontinued cigars over
the years. I'm gonna go throughthe history in a little bit.
And, of course, this marker isused quite a bit for regional
editions, for that regionalband. And I wanted to point out
one boys because we talk aboutthis one a lot.
They have a new edition regionalfor Peru coming out called the

(11:47):
Chan Chan, which is a sublimas,54 ring gauge by six and one
quarter inches long. Of course,shouting out the Buena Vista
shows Social Club.

Chef Ricky (11:57):
Think there's a sublime shot out there too.
Sublime. That's what it soundedlike.

Gizmo (12:04):
Yeah, that's the story on current production of Sancho
Ponce. I'll go through theirhistory in a little bit. On the
bellicosos, these only come nowin dress box of 25 cigars. There
was a slide lid box of 50 cigarsthat was discontinued in
02/2003, and this cigar was inexistence well before the

(12:25):
revolution. So, yeah.
So I'll talk about that in alittle bit. But first, boys,
what are we thinking about thecigar? Because I'm loving it.

Bam Bam (12:30):
Yeah. It's delicious.

Gizmo (12:31):
Very good so far. Absolutely.

Pagoda (12:33):
Yeah. It's a great tuna.

Rooster (12:34):
Cocoa, you know, flavor and with that little salty to
it.

Chef Ricky (12:37):
Little nuttiness here too. A little almond. Yeah.
Some almond here.

Bam Bam (12:41):
I like that saltiness. I'm getting a bit of that now.
It's giving it very nice balancewith that sweetness that it has.

Senator (12:47):
It's very Monty too like, I feel like. Like a great
Monty too. And I I had one ofthese a few years ago young. You
got the cocoa. It was notcreamy, so the age has
definitely helped bring thattogether.
This is a lot more refined thanI remember this cigar. I mean, I
never pursued it or picked upanother one after my first one.

Bam Bam (13:07):
I'm gonna guess you were away when

Senator (13:08):
you had this, not here, Not stateside. I forget because
I know who I got it from, but Idon't remember if we smoked it
away or here. Have

Rooster (13:18):
you guys ever smoked the Sancho Panza Molinas? No.

Pagoda (13:22):
No. You're predating yourself again.

Senator (13:27):
This pre revolution rooster?

Chef Ricky (13:30):
Were you with Fidel? Two thousand.

Rooster (13:34):
That was another very good cigar.

Bam Bam (13:36):
A good moment with Fidel, I'm sure.

Pagoda (13:41):
Hey. I had to get you back to

Gizmo (13:42):
the day. I like how he just accepts it and just keeps
going as

Bam Bam (13:46):
He's leaning into it.

Gizmo (13:47):
He's leaning in.

Bam Bam (13:47):
Not really, but

Chef Ricky (13:49):
So so since you guys are beating up on Rooster here,
I think it's, you know, onlyfair that we give him a little
shout out. He noticed somethingon the band called where it said
Delamontes Alexion, and I foundthe answer, I think, on FOH. So
their answer is that I want touse a Spanish family name. This
band was probably a personalizedcigar band made for a person

(14:11):
named Delamonte as Sancho Ponzanever cared to produce different
bands since probably thenineteenth century. This is
probably the last band thatexisted when Sancho Ponson no
longer produced new cigar banddesigns.
So there you go. It's just aleftover band.

Gizmo (14:25):
I like that they just keep rolling with it. Some
random guy in Spain. Just keepprinting the name on there. Why
change it? It's working.
Ship them.

Bam Bam (14:31):
Let's not change the dye.

Chef Ricky (14:33):
So did the Molina cigars say Molina on the band?

Bam Bam (14:36):
It requires work.

Chef Ricky (14:38):
That was just the name of

Gizmo (14:39):
the Votolo?

Rooster (14:39):
It's like a it was a small ring gauge. I think it's a
42 by six, something like that.

Gizmo (14:44):
It was a Lonsdale rooster, 42 by six and a half.
Cervantes is the factor. That'spretty close. Memory.

Chef Ricky (14:50):
Off by

Rooster (14:50):
half an inch.

Pagoda (14:52):
You got a good memory too.

Gizmo (14:53):
It was discontinued in

Rooster (14:54):
2012. In 2012. Yeah. Not that long, Drew.

Bam Bam (14:59):
For you.

Rooster (15:02):
Jesus. When were you born, Ben?

Pagoda (15:07):
There we go.

Gizmo (15:08):
So, boys, let's go through some Sancho Ponza
history. They have a long, longhistory, and they've been
through a lot of ups and downs.The brand was registered in 1848
by Don Emilio Olmsted, a Germanwho also created El Rey del
Mundo around the same time.Sancho Panza is the name of the
servant of Don Quixote, a famouscharacter in the very popular

(15:30):
novel by Spanish writer Miguelde Cervantes. By the way, I it's
crazy that that that novel waswritten in in, like, early
sixteen hundreds, late '15hundreds.
Wow. That's a long time ago.Yeah. After the death of Olmsted
in 1870, the brand was purchasedin 1874.

Bam Bam (15:48):
Rooster was waiting. I was waiting too. Rooster was
waiting. Well, I looked at him.I went like this.
The head gesture.

Gizmo (15:56):
But then he bought

Chef Ricky (15:57):
it? No.

Bam Bam (16:00):
He printed it.

Gizmo (16:06):
So the business slowly declined, and in 1898, the
production was discontinuedentirely. And then it was
purchased by another firm andwent completely bankrupt in
1920. In '19 in the 1920s, thebrand went through a bunch of
different ownerships, includingthe Ionis family, Cefuentos,
Pago Isia, and it was purchasedby Ray Del Mundo cigar company

(16:28):
in the nineteen thirties. Andthen that is when they say,
according to Minrani, aroundthat period, two legendary
models were created, the Sanchosand the Molinos that you were
referencing. In Habana businessregistry, the brand appears
under the ownership of Ray delMundo.
So this is a a brand that isvery much aligned in its history

(16:49):
and its standing in Cuba with ElRey del Mundo, which is, of
course, a market that we love,especially

Bam Bam (16:55):
Oh, yeah.

Gizmo (16:55):
BAM's favorite, the Schwa Supreme. Correct. The Ray del
Mundo cigar company was makingthe super premium brand, El Rey
del Mundo at the time, whichwas, quote, the most expensive
cigar in the world. And becauseof this, Sancho Panza finally
began to prosper. And in thenineteen fifties, it was one of
the most popular cigar brands inSpain, which might align, chef,

(17:18):
with what you were just talkingabout with the band there.
So they've had an up and downperiod since then. I I would say
now they're in a down periodseeing as there's only one
Vitola in regular production andanother that's kind of in a
questionable amount ofproduction in the non plus. But,
yeah, I I would hope that justlike some of the other lines out

(17:38):
there, I hope that they bringthis, know, market back to life.

Rooster (17:41):
There's nobody in Hong Kong smoking Sancho Panzers. No
way. So there's no interest inHumboldt to, you know, make
Sancho Panzers.

Gizmo (17:50):
That's correct. So that's the story on Sancho Ponza, boys.
You know, I was trying to figureout where the mother factory for
Sancho Ponza is. I would assumeit's La Corona. I I wasn't able
to find where the mother factoryis, but I would assume aligning

(18:10):
with Diplomaticos, whichtechnically is H.
Upman, but they make most ofthem out of Corona.

Bam Bam (18:16):
You don't think this is rolled into provincial ever?

Gizmo (18:17):
It is this is rolled into provincial, but the mother
factory where the blendingdecisions are made, etcetera,
you know, I'm I'm assuming is ishappening at La Everything

Rooster (18:26):
is rolled at La Corona. Yeah. Pretty much. My buddy was
just there in Cuba. Yeah.
He saw boxes of Cohibas,Mexicas.

Bam Bam (18:34):
In La Corona? No way.

Rooster (18:36):
I swear to God. No way. Oh yeah. I swear to God.

Bam Bam (18:39):
That's not supposed to He

Rooster (18:40):
saw a lot of Mexicas being rolled out.

Gizmo (18:42):
That is not supposed to happen. Exactly. It's happening
everywhere. Their demand is somuch

Bam Bam (18:45):
they can't keep up. Where's the press release on
that?

Senator (18:51):
You just heard it.

Bam Bam (18:52):
Correct.

Gizmo (18:55):
So I have an interesting news story. I saw this on FOH.
Shout out to Rob over there. Heput this up. I thought this was
fascinating.
The article is from a newspapercalled, Watagua Democrat. And
the article is, Cuban cigarillofactory is overwhelmed by
burning demand overseas. And itsays Cuba's sole producer of

(19:17):
cigarillos cannot keep up withthe exploding demand abroad for
the smaller, cheaper, andmachine rolled version of the
island island nation's much morefamous handcrafted cigars.
Working at full capacity, theICT, which is the company that
produces these, they produce800,000 cigarillos a day. Wow.
And it's not enough.

Rooster (19:37):
What? Who's smoking these?

Senator (19:39):
Yeah. Really?

Gizmo (19:40):
Women? Exports have increased tenfold in two
decades, and that's despitestricter smoking laws worldwide
and, of course, not being ableto sell in The US market. ICT
sales grew from 25,400,000cigarillos in 2001 to
200,000,000 last year. What?200,000,000.

Bam Bam (20:01):
That is nice upside.

Gizmo (20:04):
The ICT factory opened in 2001 employs 400 workers
producing cigarillos with 64machines, seven days a week,
twenty fourseven.

Chef Ricky (20:13):
Do you think that's just a result of low Cuban stock
in some areas like duty freeshops, so people just kind of
pick up whatever they see andmost of the time that's what you
end up finding in these places?

Gizmo (20:23):
I would think that's what it's from, and I would think
that obviously we're comparingthis to 2,001, right? We're
comparing numbers from thembased on this article, but I
would assume over the last fewyears it has to be tied to the
cost of Cuban cigars, especiallyat places like Duty Free,
Because if someone's like, bringme some Cuban cigars home, you
know, your your mother-in-law,your aunt, your uncle is not

(20:47):
gonna be buying a $700 box ofD4s. Exactly. They're gonna buy
a pack of cigarillos that say,Nevada, Cuba.

Rooster (20:53):
I doubt a cigar smoker actually smokes cigarillos that
much. It has to be an excigarette smoker Correct. Would
relate more to a cigarillos.Because if you

Pagoda (21:03):
think about Nat Sherman, Nat Sherman was selling a lot
more of their Nat Shermancigarettes, which were natural.
Like they were like tobaccoleaves. They were selling most
of that. In fact, when, youknow, Philip Morris had ended up
purchasing Nat Sherman, thereason they'd purchase it was
for that business. So I'm surethere's a huge demand for that,

(21:25):
you know, globally.

Gizmo (21:27):
I just thought some of the numbers were pretty
incredible. And of course, thenthey detailed, they had a quote
here from twenty four year oldworker Rizelle Barbara Fuente
who earns 11,200 pesos permonth. She says, I love my
machine. And they calculatedthat that 11,200 pesos was $93 a
month. Actually, if you use thecurrent conversion rate with US

(21:52):
dollars, it's about $30 a month,which is just crazy.
So, yeah, I found that veryfascinating. I had no idea that
Cuban Cicadillo demand was thathigh that they're producing
hundreds of millions of thoseeach year and actually making
quite a profit. Yeah.

Pagoda (22:11):
I wonder, do they inhale it or do they just smoke like
cigars?

Gizmo (22:15):
That's a good question. It is. A really

Bam Bam (22:17):
good question. We've all tried those little cigars. I
have.

Chef Ricky (22:19):
I smoke it just like a cigar.

Bam Bam (22:21):
They're not very satisfying because there's just
not enough combustion orproduction in the smoke. Yep.
You do get some nice flavordepending on if you like. I've
had Davidoff little cigarillos.They're nice, but very, very
quick.

Senator (22:32):
Guess didn't you get the little Partagas ones when
y'all smoked them in the parkinglot?

Gizmo (22:36):
That's right. I did. You know what? The reason why is I
was on I Have An is this isquite some time ago. This was,
like, during COVID, I think.
And they had, like, a a youknow, I think you got, like, 200
of these Partagas cigarillosfor, like, $50. Know we did
that. Less than that even. Ithink it was, like We had a lot

Rooster (22:53):
of time on on our hands.

Bam Bam (22:55):
Mhmm.

Gizmo (22:55):
So yeah. So I ordered them, and they weren't great. I
mean,

Senator (23:00):
For me, I just remember the filler, like, kept falling
out. It was really annoying.

Bam Bam (23:04):
Yeah. Like, how can you roll a tight tiny little cigar?

Gizmo (23:08):
Well, it's a machine

Chef Ricky (23:09):
made process.

Bam Bam (23:10):
Yeah. It's true.

Chef Ricky (23:11):
And they're not great for the car because the
ash has no any any kind ofintegrity, no structure. So it
just kind of flakes off and

Rooster (23:19):
But Gizmo's got a special ashtray for that.

Gizmo (23:21):
I do. Yeah. Correct. I love my car ashtray. Alright.
So, boys, I have another one foryou. I found this one very
interesting as well. You know,we're not a sports podcast, so
we're not going down the rabbithole of sports per se. But Not
even this weekend? It was it wasannounced that Michael Jordan is

(23:45):
going to be joining NBC as aspecial contributor to their
upcoming National BasketballAssociation, the NBA, moving
back to NBC next year, andMichael Jordan's gonna be
joining them.
So Stephen a Smith was talkingabout it on his podcast, and I
clipped this because I thoughtit was fascinating that Stephen

(24:06):
a Smith was talking aboutMichael Jordan. So I wanted I
wanted to play this for youguys, see what you thought of
this.

Bam Bam (24:12):
Any way you slice it, let me tell you this about
Michael Jordan. Obviously, he'ssomebody that I know, got a lot
of love for. I've known him formany years. We we we talk quite
often. And clearly, he's abrilliant basketball mind.
How could you not be being asgreat as he was? My only
suggestion to end would be toNBC. And that would be even

(24:33):
though this is not somethingthat you should you would
normally take intoconsideration, I would ask you
to do this. Number one, youmight wanna let him smoke his
cigars.
Yeah. We Because
the Michael Jordan smoking a cigar is a little bit
different than a Michael Jordanthat ain't. The Michael Jordan

(24:54):
that smoked those cigars getsvery, very relaxed. When he's
very, very relaxed,

Chef Ricky (25:01):
he tends to be

Bam Bam (25:01):
a bit more outspoken. Correct.

Senator (25:04):
And that

Bam Bam (25:04):
dude, trust
me, y'all. Y'all wanna see that brother on television.

Gizmo (25:10):
I thought that was a pretty cool clip.

Bam Bam (25:11):
That's very cool.

Gizmo (25:13):
Steven A. Smith calling for NBC to allow Michael Jordan

Bam Bam (25:16):
Well done.

Gizmo (25:17):
To smoke cigars on the broadcast. And I love what he
said. Obviously, he's saying itin a very Steven A. Smith
polarizing type of way. Right?
Michael, you know, Stephen A.Smith's a very polarizing guy.
But

Chef Ricky (25:28):
Just like his hairline.

Gizmo (25:31):
I love that he recognizes when he's with Michael Jordan
and Michael's smoking a cigar,he's getting a much more
relaxed, open, chill, you know,let's have a great conversation,
Michael, than the Michael that's

Pagoda (25:45):
not sure. I think Stephen Nay needs a cigar.

Gizmo (25:47):
He loves a cigar, especially when the cowboys

Bam Bam (25:49):
Yeah. Correct.

Chef Ricky (25:50):
Especially when

Gizmo (25:50):
the cowboys lose.

Chef Ricky (25:52):
Yeah. I look forward to hearing Michael Jordan's
opinion on during thesebroadcasts just because, you
know, the the constant criticismis like, oh, he played during
the time when the NBA was mucheasier and the pressure wasn't
there.

Bam Bam (26:05):
Easier.

Pagoda (26:06):
Easier.

Chef Ricky (26:06):
Yeah. But that's why you hear a lot of the young kids
saying.

Bam Bam (26:10):
Do they have any idea how much physically tougher it
was?

Chef Ricky (26:13):
I agree with you.

Gizmo (26:15):
Was no load management.

Bam Bam (26:16):
Yeah. Correct.

Gizmo (26:17):
He played every game.

Rooster (26:18):
Yeah. Now they just shoot threes.

Chef Ricky (26:19):
Played every game. He had teammates that weren't
showing up because they were inVegas and Elbows,

Bam Bam (26:25):
body checks Yep. Clotheslines, all was part of
the game.

Senator (26:29):
When the kids are saying easier, they mean less
competition than there is now.

Bam Bam (26:33):
Yeah. It's yeah. So it's not as a level playing
field. Yeah. That makes sense.

Gizmo (26:38):
So hopefully NBC will listen to Stephen A. Smith and
allow Michael Jordan to sitthere with his Partagas
Lusitanias and

Bam Bam (26:44):
Correct.

Gizmo (26:45):
His oil double Coronas.

Bam Bam (26:46):
Wouldn't that be incredible?

Gizmo (26:47):
Wouldn't that be amazing?

Senator (26:48):
Yeah. And a glass of tequila.

Chef Ricky (26:49):
Correct. The hobby needs it. The hobby needs it.

Bam Bam (26:52):
Oh, you better believe it.

Gizmo (26:53):
Amen. So boys, let's go to our pairing.

Bam Bam (26:56):
We

Gizmo (26:57):
have a very special night ahead of us tonight. This has
been prompted kind of through aback and forth, would say,
between talking about doing somebudget champagne, some stuff
that comes in a little cheaper,getting some recommendations,
and then kind of that ping pong.Now senator went out, found a
bunch of them,

Senator (27:15):
and has tried a bunch. Correct? And this is the first
one tonight that I wouldn't saya bunch, but I think I got very
lucky. You know, some listenerwrote in, it would be helpful to
have some more excessivelypriced sparkling champagnes,
cava, whatever it may be. I'vebeen searching for a very long

(27:37):
time to find something that fitsin that category.
I found some decent options.There's one we'll do at another
point that I think everyone willlike, but this I stumbled upon
very recently. It's from France.It's from burgundy, not
champagne. But I'm curious tosee what everybody thinks.

(27:57):
I I

Bam Bam (27:57):
have some questions. Have you had this before? I've
had a lot of it. So you know it.I can't let's try it.

Gizmo (28:04):
Cheers. So how about we tell the people what it is?

Senator (28:06):
Yeah. Giz, read the Yeah. There you

Chef Ricky (28:07):
go. Alright.

Bam Bam (28:08):
Alright. I'm being presumptuous.

Gizmo (28:09):
Here we go. Oh god. Cava Llorans, Cremant De Bourgon?

Senator (28:21):
Very close. Burgundy.

Gizmo (28:22):
No. That's not Burgundy. Come on. Stop it. There's no no.
That's not Burgundy. How do youactually say that in French?

Chef Ricky (28:29):
Is it bourguignon?

Rooster (28:30):
Burgignon.

Gizmo (28:31):
Burgignon. It's it's referring to burgundy. I know it
is, but I'm reading what itsays. Cremande bourguignon.
Bourguignon.

Chef Ricky (28:40):
Goddamn it. That's better. That's better.

Pagoda (28:41):
It sounded like It sounded like burger and naan.
Bourguignon.

Gizmo (28:45):
Cremande Bergogne. Bolognese.

Chef Ricky (28:48):
You might be onto something there.

Senator (28:51):
Alright. Can we have Pagoda say Cave De La Ronde?

Pagoda (28:55):
Cave De La

Gizmo (28:56):
Ronde. Oh.

Bam Bam (28:57):
Sexy. Here

Gizmo (28:58):
we go. Alright. Let's try this, boys. Very sultry. A
little sparkling wine fromFrance.

Bam Bam (29:04):
Cheers. Cheers, boys.

Senator (29:05):
Cheers. Oh,

Gizmo (29:10):
yes.

Chef Ricky (29:11):
All I need now, and it's not from Burgundy or Cuba,
but I feel like a little pieceof Manchego cheese between this
cigar and this sparkling wineand I'm in a very lovely place.
This is delicious. Absolutely.

Bam Bam (29:27):
It is very well balanced. Just enough sweetness,
but the dry and I love a drychampagne or wine, so for me
this hits the spot.

Gizmo (29:37):
I'll be honest, I'm shocked that it's not champagne.

Bam Bam (29:39):
It's very sweet.

Gizmo (29:40):
Like I came into this lead up here saying, let's try
the pairing, and I saidchampagne, and I knew it wasn't
champagne.

Bam Bam (29:46):
We haven't talked price yet, but this is punching above
its weight class. It's drinkinglike a very sophisticated drink.

Gizmo (29:50):
This is awesome.

Chef Ricky (29:51):
It's not overly briny.

Bam Bam (29:53):
Very good.

Chef Ricky (29:53):
It's a little creamy, little sweet. Yeah. This
is great. Yeah. What's theprice?

Bam Bam (29:58):
And dry.

Senator (29:59):
Alright, so this is the craziest part of this. You will
never believe the price point.

Bam Bam (30:03):
22

Senator (30:04):
This bottle retails for 20. No way. At bottle king where
I bought it, and there areseveral other sites you can find
online at this price, $15.

Bam Bam (30:12):
Get the hell

Gizmo (30:13):
out here.

Senator (30:13):
Way. Swear to God.

Gizmo (30:14):
This is a $15 bottle? $15. Wow. From Burgundy in
France. Listen, man.
You know? I'm in. It's hard to

Bam Bam (30:26):
I'm all in.

Gizmo (30:27):
It's hard though to go to some of those champagnes that
we've loved on this podcast andspend three, four, five times as
much. This is outstanding atthat price.

Senator (30:36):
Okay. I'm thrilled to hear this. Pagoda. I wanna hear
Pagoda, actually. He loveschampagne.

Bam Bam (30:41):
I'm looking at his face.

Pagoda (30:42):
So I have a question for you. How did you discover this?

Senator (30:46):
I literally so the funny thing is in Bottle King,
they've always had a verylimited selection of champagne
and sparkling, And I noticed mylast trip there, all of a
sudden, I started seeing bottlesI've never seen there before in
years, and it was some Frenchsparkling that were not like the
big champagne houses, you know,Moed, Pol Roger, Vuve, all the

(31:07):
ones that we know. And so I hadpicked up two one actually from
champagne, this one fromBurgundy that I had never seen
there before. The one fromchampagne, I hated. We're not
gonna even bother doing it. Butthis bottle, I was blown away at
its price point what thisdelivers.
So it was just pure chance, andI was thrilled because the hard

(31:28):
thing the most frustrating partof me not being able to find
something very affordable thatdrinks like a champagne is when
I've been in France, I havefound other French sparklings
from outside of champagne thathave been excellent, that I
would I mean, cost like $20. Iwould so happily serve anyone
that comes to my house, but youcan't find them here. So this

(31:50):
was the first time I walked inBottle King and actually saw a
French sparkling from Burgundythat was excessively priced, and
then tried it and said, oh mygosh, this is as good as some of
the, you know, accessible stuffI have found in France.

Bam Bam (32:01):
Yeah. It's excellent.

Pagoda (32:03):
I'm really enjoying it. It's really good. I my first
couple of sips were a bitsweeter, but now that my
palate's adjusted, I'm feelingit's really balanced now. Really
enjoying it. And for the pricepoint, oh, we've got another one
competing with I

Gizmo (32:18):
can't believe this is 15 The

Bam Bam (32:19):
second bottle's clutch because we're gonna kill that
first bottle.

Gizmo (32:21):
We're definitely gonna kill this That was very smart
clutch. Your second bottle.Clutch.

Senator (32:26):
I've probably already been through 10 bottles of this,
no exaggeration, just in thepast couple weeks.

Bam Bam (32:30):
I believe it. Oh, man.

Chef Ricky (32:32):
I believe it. I was gonna say I might need to buy a
refrigerator that matches mytower just for this spark There
you go. Because this stuff isdelicious. Awesome.

Senator (32:40):
The thing that shocks me about this, number one,
there's a quality aboutchampagne that is unlike any
other sparkling. Champagne has acreaminess, like a mousse like
quality that no Americansparkling, Italian sparkling
Cava has. Those have, like, amore have a a more abrupt
finish. It's not as, like, silkyand creamy and velvety. I

(33:04):
couldn't believe the first sip Itook when I opened this bottle.
The first time I tried it, it'svery creamy. I mean, you always
have to spend at least $50 tohave that kind of, like, creamy
finish that you get in this. Theflavor profile, I couldn't agree
more with what everyone hassaid. It's very balanced. It's a
little sweet, but also a littledry.

(33:25):
I think kinda the the perfectamount on both sides. You can
pick out some, like, distinctnotes that are in there, which
we can talk more about in alittle bit. I just for $15, I
can't remember the last time Ihave drank any sparkling that
has delivered as refined andenjoyable experience as this
does. And for me now, you know,I used to we talked about this

(33:50):
on a prior pod, us trying tosource smaller format bottles of
champagne. Yeah, the halfbottle.
Because there's nothing you feelworse than doing is opening up a
$50.60, $70 bottle of champagne.Mhmm. You just want a glass or
two, and then you're sittingthere, you know, what should I
do with the rest? Do I save it?You try to, you know, put a
stopper in or something to sealit.
At this price point, I'm like,forget small bottles. I mean, if

(34:11):
I drink half of this and threwthe rest out, who cares? It's
$15. That's true. A small littlemini bottle is $15 of any of the
big champagne houses.
So the the utility of this istremendous, and it's a bottle
that how this drinks, I would beproud to serve anybody that
comes over my house. I mean,know, I think everybody knows
I'm usually very happy to pop,like, Pol Roger and stuff like

(34:33):
that, but this does

Bam Bam (34:35):
the trick. It does. I could have this with barbecue. I
can have this with a meal. Icould have this with just a
cigar sitting outside on a verywarm day.
It is quite something.

Rooster (34:48):
Is there a minerality that you get?

Senator (34:50):
There absolutely is.

Bam Bam (34:51):
There is. Definitely. Not heavy, though.

Senator (34:52):
No. Is this? This would pair great with seafood, great
with oysters.

Bam Bam (34:56):
Oh, yeah.

Senator (34:57):
It definitely it has so many champagne like qualities.
My only complaint is I wish ithad a little bit more body, a
little bit more structure Mhmm.But it it can't do that at
$15.20 dollars. So, like, Iunderstand the limitations at
the price point. Outside ofthat, I wouldn't change a damn
thing about this.
No.

Bam Bam (35:16):
No. Very good.

Pagoda (35:17):
No. But this is fantastic. I'm gonna thank you,
senators, all this.

Gizmo (35:20):
So, boys, we'll go back to this in a second, but first,
we're coming to the end of thefirst third here on the Sancho
Panza bellicosos. What'severybody thinking? It's
terrible. Good. I have a couplemore and I'm taking them home.

Rooster (35:31):
I want another one. My draw got a little tight and I
took a little bit more off andthat helped. I don't know if you
guys have the same.

Bam Bam (35:39):
No. This is performing beautifully.

Gizmo (35:41):
Yeah. Mine's performing great.

Bam Bam (35:42):
It is a delicious cigar. No No complaints at all.

Gizmo (35:47):
The retrohale is Outrageous. Outstanding. It's
outrageous. Especially when youtake a sip of the sparkling wine
that we have here. Mean,

Bam Bam (35:55):
really You know the interesting thing, I don't need
to drink a thing with thiscigar.

Gizmo (35:57):
I agree.

Bam Bam (35:58):
I could smoke it right through, just a bit of water
maybe if I needed it, and that'sit.

Chef Ricky (36:02):
But the champagne.

Bam Bam (36:03):
Oh, so worth There's an enhancement for It

Chef Ricky (36:05):
does, sorry, the sparkling wine goes

Bam Bam (36:07):
so well with Yeah,

Gizmo (36:08):
it pairs perfectly with Correct.

Senator (36:10):
There's that creaminess in the cigar that, like, the
champagne is just the perfectcomplement to. I'm thrilled with
this pairing.

Bam Bam (36:17):
Great pairing.

Gizmo (36:17):
The thing too I'll say is, you know, you were saying
you wished that it had a littlemore body, but just in, like,
putting the focus on tonight,I'm glad it's sitting where it

Bam Bam (36:26):
Yeah.

Gizmo (36:26):
It sits body wise alongside this cigar because I
think this cigar I would saythis is right between mild and
medium. I don't even know ifthis is touching medium.

Bam Bam (36:36):
It's not full medium, no.

Gizmo (36:37):
You know, so I would say that

Bam Bam (36:39):
But very flavorful.

Gizmo (36:40):
Very flavorful, but I'm saying in body. Correct. But
pairing with this sparklingwine, think is Also flavorful.
Excellent.

Chef Ricky (36:46):
That's why they pair so well together. There is not
like a heavy tug in eitherdirection when you take part in
any either whether it's thesparkling wine or the or the
cigar. It's kind of really easyto get back into the midpoint
with it. Yeah. I'm getting alittle caramel on this Like it's
become a little bit sweet forme.

Bam Bam (37:05):
On the cigar?

Chef Ricky (37:06):
On the cigar itself. Yeah. And it might just be like
the coffee and chocolate andeverything coming together and
maybe not some of the creaminessfrom the champagne.

Bam Bam (37:14):
You mean the coffee I'm drinking 20 feet away from you?

Gizmo (37:22):
Yeah. This is a wonderful pairing tonight.

Senator (37:24):
Mhmm. And I also wanna say when, you know, people are
looking for budget champagnes,right, any sparkling wine made
outside of France is not gonnadrink really anything like a
French champagne. But for, youknow, this, they can't call
champagne because it's not madethere, but any sparkling wine
made in France is made in theexact same champagne style that

(37:45):
they make it there. And I didn'teven know this, so like this
says, you know, cremente, theliteral translation of that is
creamy. And it's meant to referto this champagne style of
winemaking, and that is thatcharacteristic experience that
you have only with Frenchsparklings that I can't

(38:07):
remember.
I mean, I think of like, youknow, budget sparklings that
people drink lots of. A gruetteas an American one out of New
Mexico. I mean, like, there'snothing at all creamy about
that. You know, Shandan Pagodaand I have drank plenty of as an
excessively priced sparkling.Very good, but I wouldn't in any
way describe as creamy.

(38:27):
And so, like, that style iswhat's so unique to the French
style of winemaking, and I'mjust so thrilled that it holds
true outside of champagne whereyou can find such a great

Pagoda (38:39):
deal.

Bam Bam (38:39):
Yeah, I'm getting that creamy experience right at the
middle of my tongue. The frontis the sweetness for me and the
finish is nice and dry. Veryelegant.

Chef Ricky (38:48):
This is the perfect pairing for the season that
we're coming into.

Bam Bam (38:52):
Oh yeah.

Chef Ricky (38:53):
You know, just like spring heading into summer. It's
refreshing. It's it's it'sdirect and pointed, but just
beautifully delivered.

Bam Bam (39:04):
Wow. Agreed.

Gizmo (39:06):
I use

Chef Ricky (39:06):
job center just like, you know what you're doing
or something.

Gizmo (39:08):
I try. I used that word a couple weeks ago. I used this
word a couple weeks ago,effortless. Like, to me again,
both of these are just like, youknow, sitting outside on a
beautiful summer morning, like aSaturday morning or something,
this cigar

Bam Bam (39:21):
It brings you peace. Yes. It this this pairing is
brings you peace. It'sfantastic.

Chef Ricky (39:26):
I I could we're we're gonna have to do this.
I'll do a spring risotto with alittle shrimp, little lobster,
or langoustine. Some peas?Little peas, maybe some spring
asparagus. I like that.

Gizmo (39:40):
I like that. Uh-huh.

Chef Ricky (39:41):
It might be too late for ramps, but a cigar and the
sparkling wine.

Bam Bam (39:45):
Back to

Senator (39:46):
the ramps.

Pagoda (39:47):
Alright. See you Sunday, chef Ricky. We we we would agree
on Monday, but, know, Monday isa busy day for you.

Gizmo (39:57):
And for us, we record the pod Monday nights.

Senator (39:59):
Yeah. But how you were saying both these are
effortless, they're also soversatile. It's like this cigar,
you could literally smoke thisin the morning, the afternoon,
or the evening. Yeah. Thischampagne, the or this this
sparkling, the exact same thing.

Bam Bam (40:11):
Right after breakfast.

Senator (40:12):
This any time of day.

Bam Bam (40:13):
I think so too.

Senator (40:14):
And when I say the body thing, like, it is so easy
drinking. Like, this cigar is soeasy smoking that I mean, you
can just put this back in crazyvolume.

Gizmo (40:24):
Yeah. That's the problem. This can get dangerous pretty
Yeah.

Bam Bam (40:28):
Well, I don't know. I need another bottle to test that
out.

Gizmo (40:32):
Let's crack it up. So, boys, let's go to an email now.
This is gonna be our lizard ofthe week. This is from Lizard
Allie from Durham, UnitedKingdom. And I I will say, and
and this email represents this,we have gotten an immense amount
of email and commentary abouttrying to find budget sparkling

(40:57):
wine, Cava, champagne, etcetera.
You know, the call out, lookingfor those less expensive bottles
like we're talking abouttonight. And I wanted to read
this email for you guys fromLizard Alley here about this
exact topic. He says, hi,lizards. Really enjoying the
show, and I'm a weekly listenerfrom Durham in The United
Kingdom. I thought I'd send somerecommendations through for

(41:18):
sparkling wines.
As you mentioned, Cava, on aprevious episode, went looking
for sparkling wine around $30.And Spanish sparkling wine is
certainly a rabbit hole I havebeen down and I'm still
exploring. Being from The UK, Ihave access to a Spanish
distributor, and most of myseller is Spanish as it offers
great price to quality ratiosand many styles that I love. I

(41:39):
love sparkling wine, and most ofwhat I drink is either
champagne, corpignat, or cava,the perfect pairing with Cubans
in my opinion. Much of the cavawe see here in The UK is of low
quality and has a terriblereputation, but there are many
excellent examples of seriouswines that offer a great
drinking experience, which in myopinion rival champagnes, as
we're experiencing tonight here,boys, albeit in a different way.

(42:02):
Many of the best of these areclassified as Corpinat. I don't
know if I'm pronouncing thatcorrectly. I'm so sorry, Lizard
Allie and the other people outthere who are cringing as I say
that.

Bam Bam (42:11):
And us in the room.

Gizmo (42:12):
C o r p I n a t t, Corpinat. Corpinat. It's a
designation of origin todistinguish sparkling wines from
the Pernetes region ofCatalonia. There are very strict
rules. They must be made in thisterritory.
They are all produced via thetraditional method. 90% must be
indigenous grapes. Oh god. Themost common are zarolo, and he

(42:38):
puts in parentheses. I can'twait for Gizmo to try and
pronounce that.
Maccabello, Parallada, andMalvasia. I'm so sorry. This is
horrible. The aging rules arestricter. All wines must spend
at least eighteen months onLee's, and wineries must make at
least one wine which is overthirty months old and another
over sixty months old, fiveyears.

(42:59):
My favorites are the GrandReservoirs, which are aged
longer and some have a nuttyoxidative style of old vintage
champagne without the same pricetag. My favorite producers are
Grimona. He just did this, dude.Recoretto, Lopart, and others
according to Rello, Mascondi,Julia Burnett, and Confectes. Oh

(43:21):
my god.

Chef Ricky (43:21):
Well, we know who's not winning lizard of the week.

Gizmo (43:23):
Not me. Some of my other favorite producers outside the
Corpanaut designation in Spaininclude Mestris, Juve Ecamps,
Cellar Crypta, Raventos Eblanc,and Mastinol. I I I'm trying,
man. There are also some greatvalet cavos from Roger Goulart
if you can get those. We wererecently served one in a

(43:45):
Michelin starred restaurant inSpain, and I was blown away when
I saw the bottle.
It was available for around $20US. It tasted like a great
champagne. This all depends onwhat bottles you guys have
available. Of course, feel freeto reach out if you need a
recommendation on a particularbottle. I'd be very interested
to see what you guys think ofsome of these wines.
Thanks very much. Lizard Alley.What a great email. Great email.

(44:07):
I love email deep dives likethis.
This is why Lizard Alley is ourlizard of the week this week
because an email like this now Ican't pronounce it, but I can
send this to senator and and andchef to start sourcing some of
these things for us to try totaste some of this stuff and get
it on the pod. So that is whyLizard Alley is our lizard of
the week is because this emailis super helpful, and we really,

(44:30):
really appreciate the deep divethat listeners do for us. So
many listeners have done it.Listeners do it every single
week, and we are very, verygrateful. So thank you to Lizard
Alley, our lizard of the week.
Anyone out there can win lizardof the week. We're gonna send
him a little care package fromus. We give that away every
week. All you have to do iswrite us, send us an email, a
comment, whatever you choose,and you can also win lizard of

(44:51):
the week like Lizard Allie andso many others have. So I will
send that to you guys and youcan have fun trying to source
those things and pronounce thosenames because I just butchered
that entire email.

Bam Bam (45:03):
That's okay. I'm sorry about that.

Senator (45:05):
No. Super helpful email. I mean, seriously, kava
as a category I mean, fifteenyears ago, no one was drinking
kava, period. Right? It's likeit all it takes is a small
catalyst for people to startpursuing a champagne like
experience at a more affordableprice point.
And, you know, some of thelarger names in Kava were

(45:29):
luckily able to market enoughthat they created serious demand
for those brands, and it'sopened the door for a lot of
other smaller producers. And Ihope more this happens. I mean,
champagne is famous for a verygood reason, but there's
excellent sparkling wine that'smade in that same country that
just doesn't really see thelight of day. I can't how many
years have we all been shoppingin liquor stores and wine shops

(45:51):
in this area? This is the firsttime I've seen a sparkling wine
from Burgundy.
In Bottle King, that sells likeeverything. So I think the
demand is growing for this kindof stuff, and I hope that people
keep consuming it so thatthere's a whole lot more of it
out there, but I'm reallyexcited to try some of those
recommendations and see whatwe're able to source around
here.

Bam Bam (46:12):
I wish they increased the production on this cigar.

Gizmo (46:15):
Yeah. This is a hard cigar to find, Bam. And like I
said, we're going to talk aboutthat. But this was a real
challenge. They do not make alot of them.
You know, the aficionados try tovacuum them up as quickly as
they can. But I can't tell youthe last time I saw these
anywhere listed en masse.

Bam Bam (46:31):
I can't tell you how delicious this is. I'm really,
really enjoying this cigar. I'mgetting a little banana on my
profile, just a touch of banana.

Chef Ricky (46:39):
I was just going to say, coming into the second,
third here, I have a littlefruit trying come through.

Bam Bam (46:43):
But a little tapioca and banana for me is really,
really right there for me.

Chef Ricky (46:46):
I'm getting a little mango. A little mango here.
Yeah. That's very specific

Bam Bam (46:51):
and strong. I'm not

Rooster (46:51):
getting guava.

Chef Ricky (46:52):
It's not more specific than tapioca. You're
out. What the hell?

Pagoda (46:57):
Well, I'm glad we're drinking grape.

Bam Bam (47:01):
Excellent. Excellent cigar, guys.

Gizmo (47:04):
Wow. So, boys, let's go to another listener email now.
This one's from Lizard John fromBoise. He writes us all the
time. Always a great email and agreat question.
Says, hi, Giz. I've got arelatively basic question for
the wizards this week, but onethat has nagged at me for a
while now. Cigar smokers tend tonurture and take great pride in
their size of their hem, ash, Ie the longer the better. I've

(47:28):
never understood why this isapparently an important quality
in a cigar. Personally, I ash mycigars on a regular basis so as
to avoid the almost inevitableand untimely drop on the lap.
Pagoda, do you wanna talk aboutthat before I continue the email
here?

Pagoda (47:42):
Talk about what?

Bam Bam (47:43):
By the

Gizmo (47:43):
way He's not even paying attention.

Bam Bam (47:44):
Hold on. You've gotta be there's not a single drop of
ash. Maybe one I can see on hisbelly.

Pagoda (47:49):
By the way, was trying to focus on retro hair like I
don't know. My brain just gotfried.

Bam Bam (47:54):
The kid's clean tonight.

Gizmo (47:57):
He says, but maybe I'm missing something. Is there any
real utility in letting your ashgrow as long as it possibly can?
As always, my very best wishesto you and the boys. Cheers.
Lizard John from Boise.

Rooster (48:09):
I think the cigar, it's easier for a cigar to hold on to
ash because of the shape. Ifit's a pyramid, bigger the ring
gauge, the longer the ash isgoing to hold on. And also if
it's not that loosely rolled,it's going to hold on. But I
think the cigar actually smokesa bit cooler if the ash is

(48:32):
holding on.

Bam Bam (48:33):
I agree.

Senator (48:33):
I completely agree

Bam Bam (48:34):
with you, Richard. I do too. I also like to I don't want
overly extended ash, but I wantto see it. It gives me a sense
of how the cigar was made. Ifit's holding on in their
structure, know I'm smoking aquality cigar.

Rooster (48:49):
Right. It's matter to the construction of the cigar.

Bam Bam (48:51):
Exactly. And visually it matters.

Senator (48:53):
It is, but Rooster's point about a burning cooler, I
think is the most important one.

Bam Bam (48:57):
I agree.

Senator (48:57):
I don't think it is just aesthetic why people ought
to do that or enjoy doing it.No. Some of the best smoking
experiences I have are when theash is holding on for a while

Gizmo (49:08):
Mhmm.

Senator (49:08):
And the cigar is burning cooler, and the flavor
is, like, so concentrated Yep.And just perfect and not, you
know, charred or too hot thatyou can get sometimes. I I think
there's a lot of merit to trying

Chef Ricky (49:22):
to do it. I'm just curious if Lizard John was a
cigarette smoker prior. I feellike sometimes constantly ashing
is a habit from, you know,leftover from smoking
cigarettes. But yeah, I think,you know, if you're getting a
four inch cigar length, that's alittle crazy.

Bam Bam (49:37):
That's too much.

Chef Ricky (49:38):
But I think, you know, solid half inch to an inch
of a constant ash is good forthe cigar. It's good for the
experience.

Gizmo (49:45):
I'll go I'll say this. I mean, let's look at it from the
opposite perspective. A cigarthat the ash doesn't hold at all
and it falls off like acigarette, that is an incredibly
frustrating smoking experience.When you are every two or three
minutes, five minutes, the ashis flaking off and falling apart
and getting in all of yourclothes, that's a major demerit

(50:07):
for me Yeah. In my perception ofthe value of that cigar, you
know?

Bam Bam (50:11):
But am I wrong in saying that most of the cigars
that we like actually produceash that's fairly structural?
Yeah, And most of the cigarsthat we give a low rating
usually have a very lowstructured ash.

Gizmo (50:24):
I think there's one standout.

Bam Bam (50:25):
There's some correlation there.

Gizmo (50:26):
There's one standout for me that we rated very, very well
that I

Bam Bam (50:30):
think New World or Cuban?

Gizmo (50:31):
New World. That I think is a very challenging cigar ash
wise and combustion wise that werated very highly. But the Eliva
v Lancero is one that that

Rooster (50:42):
has That's the size

Bam Bam (50:42):
of the

Gizmo (50:43):
cigar. No. Very No. But it's a great point. That's what
it is, chef, is that they'reunderfilled.

Senator (50:50):
Lancero. They're underfilled. In rooster's
defense, it is both. It's notjust one. Correct.
Every there is not one Lancerothat holds a significant amount
of ash. There you you're luckyto get an inch. That's usually
about it. But that cigar agreedbecause it's Lucy Pack
exacerbates the challenge thatalready exists to the point

(51:11):
that, like, it's constantlyyou're fighting.

Gizmo (51:13):
I think most Lancero's that I smoke or that we smoke
Uh-huh. I remain in control of

Rooster (51:18):
the ash.

Gizmo (51:18):
I think the Aleva V is the one that I do not have
control

Bam Bam (51:21):
of. So the my father Lancero, that's got some decent
structure on it. And also theother blue label, I can't

Chef Ricky (51:27):
Don Pepe. Don Pepe.

Bam Bam (51:28):
Don Pepe, which is actually they're all smoking
beautifully now. That ash holdson pretty well, I have to say.

Senator (51:34):
I'm just saying with the Lancero, you're not gonna
consistently be able to hold twoinches of ash in a way that you
can on a

Bam Bam (51:39):
Robusto or Toro. In general, that's correct. Oh,
millennium that holds a ash.Good half inch.

Senator (51:47):
Not two inches. I just smoked one the other night.

Bam Bam (51:50):
I wouldn't do a two inch ash on any cigar. Chef
said, I think a half inch to aninch, you get a sense of the
cigar and you flick it in yourashtray.

Chef Ricky (51:59):
Yeah, but there's something to be said about just
kind of being able to sit backand smoke your cigar and enjoy
it. If you're constantly worriedabout it for your ashtray or
worried about your clothing orthe furniture.

Bam Bam (52:07):
Pagoda, I'm so proud of you, Look at you. You look
pristine tonight.

Pagoda (52:14):
One of the options of ash is you can just leave it on
your belly.

Rooster (52:19):
You know, a cigar that really holds its ash, it's the
shark. Yeah, shark. Yeah, theDon Carlos. That's one cigar
that will

Chef Ricky (52:26):
Oh yeah.

Senator (52:27):
That cigar, it's an outlier if you can't smoke it
all the way down without ashing.Like that's how crazy the
construction is

Chef Ricky (52:35):
on that.

Bam Bam (52:35):
Wouldn't you say the eightieth?

Gizmo (52:36):
Yeah, Padron Eightieth

Bam Bam (52:37):
is another That's another one, right?

Chef Ricky (52:39):
Or the sixtieth. Padron sixtieth held on the
ashram. Yeah. That's true.

Gizmo (52:43):
Yeah. You know the one I I had the other night, Senator
gave me That's right. Was the hUpman Anajados

Bam Bam (52:49):
Oh, the Cabusto.

Gizmo (52:50):
Oh, that's a That one holds on. Like, you could smoke
the entire cigar without ashram.

Bam Bam (52:53):
Beautifully made cigar.

Senator (52:54):
That's gotta be the only Cuban cigar that I have
ever multiple times been able tosmoke all the way to the end
without ashing a single time.

Bam Bam (53:01):
Yeah. That's a good point.

Gizmo (53:04):
Alright, boys. Let's go to a news story now. This one
we've talked about before andand and another big change in
the status here on Cohiba versusCohiba. So General Cigars has
been suing Habanos, and Habanoshave been suing General Cigars
for about thirty years now. Andaccording to CigarFish

Bam Bam (53:25):
legal fees there.

Gizmo (53:26):
The legal battle for Cohiba has been going on for
thirty years, and the judgmenthas now gone in favor of the
Cubans again. The most recentruling is a result of a suit
filed in February 2023. Generalsought to reverse a decision
made by the Trademark Trial andAppeal Board in 2022, which
again ruled to cancel General'sCohiba trademark registration in

(53:49):
The United States. And again,last month, General lost the
case again. So, of course,General sells many as we've
called them and a lot of folkscall them red dot Cohibas, in
The United States where you lookat if you look at the Cohiba
brand, you could see the red dotin the o of Cohiba.
And I guess, originally, CubaTobacco challenged the legality

(54:10):
of The US trademark in firsttime in January of nineteen
ninety seven. So it's been inlitigation ever since. Pretty
crazy because what I don'tunderstand about this, unlike
some of the others and listen.Do I love that there's a
Partagas and an H. Shuppman anda Romeo Y Juliet and a Monte
Cristo in the new world space?

(54:31):
No. But the argument has alwaysbeen that those were trademarks
that were taken in therevolution from Cuban
proprietors who wereentrepreneurs. The thing about
Cohiba specifically for me andmy perspective, and I'm curious
what you guys think, is it wasfounded in 1966, almost a decade
after you know, six, seven yearsafter the revolution. It was
never a part of that sameconversation. So I don't

(54:55):
understand how they ever wereable to sell Cohiba outside of
of of what Cuba tobacco doesworldwide here in The United
States.
I don't know why they've beenable to do it, but they have.
But it seems like that might bea challenge again. I'm sure this
is gonna continue on forever.But, you know, right now, it
looks like it's on the side ofHabanos and Tabakuba.

Senator (55:17):
I think there's obviously legitimacy to their
argument. Right? I mean, we knowthe origin of all of these
brands, and it is in Cuba. Imean, there's no question about
it. I've always found it strangethat there exists the exact same
brand just made in anothercountry, and even the artwork of
the bands, like in many ways,tries to mimic it.
You look at a New World MonteCristo band, it looks almost

(55:39):
identical to a Cuban MonteCristo band, which I think is
problematic, can createconfusion. I mean, are all,
like, legal criteria for thereto be infringement. So there's
no question that they have alegitimate legal argument. You
know, the hard part of it islike, you know, I'm not sure how
much interest or sympathy thereis for Habanos S. A.
Or the Cuban government when itrelates to, you know, almost

(56:02):
anything right now. So I'mcurious to see where it goes.

Bam Bam (56:07):
I feel like the case can be made for Cohiba. But as
you mentioned earlier, if thereare families that actually
created the marcus and they wereforcibly left,

Gizmo (56:16):
That's a different for me, that's a different
conversation.

Bam Bam (56:19):
Yeah. I mean, that's part of their brand that they
created, and I think they haveevery right to create that brand
elsewhere in the world if theywere forced out of their
country. Cohiba's different,though.

Gizmo (56:28):
I agree.

Senator (56:28):
But when you say they create that brand elsewhere, I
mean those families aren'tcreating those brands in Doctor
or other countries outside ofCuba.

Bam Bam (56:37):
Well, brought the name back.

Senator (56:38):
These are big conglomerates, cigar
conglomerates, that have takenbasically that intellectual
property and monetized it forthemselves.

Bam Bam (56:44):
This is true.

Gizmo (56:44):
Good point.

Bam Bam (56:45):
That's also another good point.

Rooster (56:47):
Yeah. And Habanos owns the names, owns the cigar
factories, owns the brands.There's not one person that owns
a single brand.

Bam Bam (56:58):
And there's no lineage of family, I guess, that owned
that company or ran it prior tothe revolution that were forced
out that continued to make thesebrands outside of Cuba?

Gizmo (57:08):
I don't think so.

Bam Bam (57:09):
Okay.

Chef Ricky (57:10):
So

Bam Bam (57:09):
then

Chef Ricky (57:10):
maybe the

Gizmo (57:10):
argument can be made. I'm not sure.

Bam Bam (57:11):
But it's Maybe there's an argument

Gizmo (57:13):
there for all. Odd to me that why not just come up with
something new? I don'tunderstand creating the market
confusion, as senator said. But

Senator (57:18):
No. I mean, I get why these companies have obviously
done it. I mean, no one wouldpick up some of these cigars if
they didn't say Cohiba on them.If you don't know much about
cigars and you see Cohiba in aretailer

Bam Bam (57:29):
Correct.

Senator (57:29):
You're very primed to buy that thinking that you're
smoking a Cohiba, and I'm surelater Yep. In your smoking
journey, you realize, oh, wow.That wasn't a real Cuban Cohiba.

Rooster (57:37):
Yeah. Like the Monte Cristo Robusto.

Senator (57:40):
Oh, yeah. That was great.

Chef Ricky (57:43):
Truquillo. We'll just say for

Senator (57:45):
the listener, I won't name in this.

Chef Ricky (57:48):
I won't

Gizmo (57:48):
name names. Please don't.

Bam Bam (57:49):
Truquillo. Truquillo.

Senator (57:50):
I I get to the lounge uncharacteristically early for a
recording, and I'm sitting thereand someone enters who is
holding a yellow Monte Cristodress box in their hand, and
they say, senator, take a lookat this box. Is this real? And I
look at the box, and the firstthing I look at is what cigar
this is supposed to be a boxfor. And it says I see the the

(58:13):
Cuban, you know, stamp, andobviously, I know it's meant to
be a Cuban cigar. But you lookon the side and it says, Monte
Cristo 25 Robustos.
Oh. And I'm sitting there. Thereis no Monte Cristo Robustos.

Gizmo (58:25):
It's a new production.

Rooster (58:27):
It's a new Vitola.

Chef Ricky (58:28):
You're like

Rooster (58:28):
twenty twenty four swords.

Bam Bam (58:29):
That's correct.

Senator (58:30):
It's ridiculous. So never mind that, like, the stamp
on the bottom was obviously off.Like, there there's a thousand
other tells, but to choose acigar that doesn't even exist
is, like, gotta be the worstfake of all time.

Rooster (58:42):
No. These are real.

Gizmo (58:43):
Oh, that's what we were going through. Yeah. To the
point that they senator and andthis person came in here to get
a second opinion from me. I'mlike, I don't know why they
wouldn't believe him in thefirst place.

Senator (58:53):
But Yeah. He's like, no. No. It can't be. The guy
told me that they're real.
He wanted me to auction this boxoff. He's like, we gotta ask
Gizmo. We gotta talk to someone.I said, he's gonna tell you the
exact same thing. Gizmo looks atthe box.
They're fake.

Rooster (59:03):
I mean, it's a really bad counterfeiting job.

Chef Ricky (59:05):
Right? Oh,

Rooster (59:06):
wow. You can come out with something that doesn't even
exist.

Bam Bam (59:08):
Right. Correct.

Rooster (59:09):
To create your own size. But I spent a

Bam Bam (59:11):
lot of money.

Senator (59:12):
Just pick any name that exists in the catalog if you're
gonna try and counterfeit it.

Gizmo (59:16):
Mhmm. Alright, boys. Let's go to another listener
email. Now this one's fromLizard Blake. He says, hey,
Lizards.
How's it going? The last pod Ilistened to was the Baquique 58
episode. My first questionstemmed from that and the talk
about where to purchase Cubans.By the way, this is setting up
the next few questions for us ina big discussion we're gonna
have tonight here about Cubansand where to purchase them. Do

(59:39):
you guys ever purchase from FOHon the 2424 thread?
Second and main question for youboys is do you guys set aside a
monthly budget you can spend oncigars? My fiance and I just got
a place together and are gettingmarried in October. She was
gracious enough to be cool withme buying the big humidor I've
been wanting. However, goingforward, I obviously wanna fill
it up.

Bam Bam (59:59):
Mistake number one.
I'm sure in a
long list of mistakes. Let's go.

Gizmo (01:00:05):
But also stay within our means and not piss her off. How
do you guys go about all that?That's a big question.

Bam Bam (01:00:11):
Oh, that's easy.

Gizmo (01:00:12):
Thanks, Boise. He says, p s, how long did you dry box the
Bajique fifty eights before yousmoked them? LOL. Obviously,
referencing that I think threeor four of you guys asked me
that question in that episode.How long we dry boxed them?
So we had a couple listeneremails laughing about that. So
let's start with, have any of usever purchased from the FOH
twenty four twenty four thread?Absolutely for me. I've

(01:00:33):
purchased a lot of stuff there.I've did a lot of filling of my
tower from 2424.

Senator (01:00:39):
Sorry. Speaking of filling things, towers.

Gizmo (01:00:41):
Yes. There's a

Senator (01:00:42):
lot of empty glasses.

Bam Bam (01:00:43):
That's correct.

Senator (01:00:43):
And this is the beauty Garcin. Of an affordably priced
French sparkling. We haveanother bottle.

Rooster (01:00:48):
I mean, think about this. On split wise, it's gonna
be $3. If

Pagoda (01:00:55):
it includes you even cheaper.

Bam Bam (01:00:57):
Very true.

Gizmo (01:00:58):
So while senator's pouring, has anybody else
purchased on FOH on 2424? I knowI did a lot of buying for the
group.

Bam Bam (01:01:05):
You helped me buy a bunch.

Gizmo (01:01:06):
Yeah. I bought I bought a bunch for you.

Bam Bam (01:01:07):
Yeah. I

Rooster (01:01:08):
don't have I don't have the patience for that site.

Gizmo (01:01:10):
I'm sorry.

Senator (01:01:11):
No, ma'am. 2424 is now where they sell cigars.

Bam Bam (01:01:13):
That's correct.

Senator (01:01:14):
It's only where you buy.

Bam Bam (01:01:16):
That's he helped okay.

Gizmo (01:01:17):
Alright. Oh, no. That was Bon Roberts. You're talking
about Bon Roberts.

Bam Bam (01:01:20):
Alright.

Gizmo (01:01:21):
2424 is great. It's a little difficult to navigate. It
pops up at a certain time, andthat's on purpose. But
everything they have goes up andcomes right down, and and
obviously, it's not a graymarket site. So FOH is, of
course, one of the best outthere for getting legitimate
Cuban cigars.
Let's go into the biggerquestion here. This is a this is
a tough one. So how do you howdo you navigate filling up your

(01:01:44):
brand new tower? You're gettingmarried in October, and you're
trying not to piss off yourfiance.

Chef Ricky (01:01:49):
It's all about budget. No.

Pagoda (01:01:51):
No. This is the time you do it before you get married,
buddy.

Bam Bam (01:01:54):
I'm sorry.

Pagoda (01:01:54):
Do it

Bam Bam (01:01:54):
now. Do it now. It has nothing to do with the money,
the budget, how much everythingcosts because it's gonna be
expensive. Put a few budgets

for it, there's not a I'm

Bam Bam (01:02:04):
lucky in that Mrs. Bam Bam doesn't listen to this
podcast very often.

Or have access to your other two Venmo accounts.

Bam Bam (01:02:11):
That's also correct. Because I will never ever tell
my wife how much my cigarcollection costs, how much the
tower costs. It's not somethingI do.

Well, my wife knows how much my tower cost. I never
really tell her when there's newcigars coming, but I'm sure
every time she walks down there,sees another something
happening. It doesn't say much.But, yeah, I think if you just
budget for it, set a line itemaside, and you'll you'll be
fine.

Gizmo (01:02:40):
Well, I think, you know, I think it's a matter also of
means and discipline. Right? Ifyou have the means that you
don't need to budget, so be it.If if you don't have the means
or in in lizard Blake's place,he's getting married later this
year. That's obviously anexpensive prospect.

Bam Bam (01:02:53):
And then

Gizmo (01:02:53):
a lot of things kind of the dominoes start to fall once
you get married in spending. Oh,yeah.

Bam Bam (01:02:58):
A lot

Gizmo (01:02:59):
of things happen there. So you do have to be disciplined
about it. Sure. So I thinkthat's an individual decision.
Where are you at in your life,and what are spending

Bam Bam (01:03:06):
being little facetious in my comments, but

Pagoda (01:03:08):
Yeah. But in the wedding registry, make sure that you get
cigars on.

Senator (01:03:11):
Good call. I'm Depending

Bam Bam (01:03:13):
on who the guests are.

Senator (01:03:14):
Forget where you are in life. There's one thing that
anyone needs to know when theyneed to explain how much they're
spending on cigars. They onlyget more expensive. So what that
person pays now is definitelygoing to be cheaper than what
they're gonna pay years from nowif they were to wait patiently
to slowly fill that. I thinkthat's easily the best argument

(01:03:38):
that anybody has when they'refilling up a tower.

Rooster (01:03:40):
And it's also hard to budget because you don't know
when those boxes are gonna popup if you're looking for a
special box. The way theinventory is, you have no idea
when you're to see them. So ifyou like something, get it when
you see it.

Bam Bam (01:03:53):
Yeah. And I'm making an assumption that this is partly a
question of how to break it toyour spouse that you're buying
expensive cigars. I don't thinkthat's it. But when something
comes up and you need it, you'regoing to get it. It's that
simple.
I mean,

Gizmo (01:04:06):
it's I also think though before you get married and it's
just like if we want to parallelthis to someone who is a golf
player and spends a lot of moneyon golf each year, you gotta be
having this conversation beforeyou get married because, you
know, you can't be throwingsurprises at this person after
the fact and that's what's gonnapiss them off. Like, if you're
already in the zone here, yougotta you gotta make it known

(01:04:28):
now.

Senator (01:04:28):
We're missing the biggest point here. I can't
believe no one has said this,myself included.

Bam Bam (01:04:34):
Did you just have an epiphany?

Gizmo (01:04:35):
A huge one. He's squinting.

Senator (01:04:37):
A huge one. They're not married yet. Yes. Buy it all at
separate properties still.

Pagoda (01:04:43):
No. But that's what I said. Buy it now.

Gizmo (01:04:46):
But maybe they're living together. I don't know.

Senator (01:04:48):
Who cares? It's separate property.

Pagoda (01:04:49):
It's separate property.

Senator (01:04:50):
Once he's married, then it's it's his wife's yeah.

Rooster (01:04:53):
Mean, does your wife tell you when she goes and buys,
like, a couple hundred dollarsworth of, like, a pair of shoes
or jewelry?

I know everything. Yes.

Rooster (01:05:00):
I have no idea.

Gizmo (01:05:02):
I don't know anything.

Bam Bam (01:05:02):
I know it all.

Rooster (01:05:03):
They spend what they want when

Bam Bam (01:05:04):
they use it as leverage.

Senator (01:05:06):
Pam thinks he

knows everything. Exactly.

Senator (01:05:08):
There's an entire other closet full of shoes.

Bam Bam (01:05:10):
I'd like to think

I know.

Gizmo (01:05:12):
That's why the grocery bill is so high. Hey. Yeah. I
mean, listen. I think you justgotta be disciplined and and you
gotta work within your means,and you gotta be straightforward
about the fact that this thishobby and this lifestyle is good
for you.
You're gonna come home afterhaving a cigar, a better fiance,
a better husband. That's theargument and it's the truth.

(01:05:32):
Yeah. This is this is a stressrelief. Esteem blows off steam.
You have a good community oflike minded human beings if
you're lucky enough to be ableto find them, you know, or sit
down with us in your garageevery every week and and have a
cigar with us and blow off somesteam and and have a few laughs,
and that's what it's all about.

Bam Bam (01:05:50):
All that's very important, and I see guys here
in the club that hesitate, thatdon't buy the cigars that they
want. They're very budgetconscious knowing that they have
the means to buy those cigars.Not everyone does. I don't have
pity for those guys. Those guys,they hesitate and they don't
build the collections that theywant for one reason or another,

(01:06:13):
and I can't explain it.
If you have the means, or evenif you don't have the means,
like you said, budget it,stagger your purchases, but
there are cigar boxes that youhave to have in your tower,
hands down.

Rooster (01:06:22):
And there are plenty of bargains out there. Mean, just
look at our ratings. A lot ofcigars we have done, it's gotten
$8 9 dollars 10 dollars as therating goes. And they're sub-ten
dollars

Senator (01:06:33):
That's right.

Gizmo (01:06:34):
Stock up on those.

Yeah. And I think if you're in this hobby, chances
are you have someone you enjoysmoking with or a few guys you
enjoy smoking Do a few split boxpurchases.

Bam Bam (01:06:44):
That's great. That's how we started. Yeah.

It's a great way to try different cigars without
blowing the budget or blowingyour bank or whatever. And it's
easy to ease into it. And alsonow on this pod, we're doing so
many new worlds. And we're luckyenough to have all the Fab Five
line of cigars, Fabrica Fiveline of cigars that are

(01:07:07):
presenting Cuban flavors withoutthe Cuban price point.

Bam Bam (01:07:10):
And all the incredible new worlds that

we've had. Yeah. So I mean, there's options out
there and there's ways to dothis without hurting your

Gizmo (01:07:17):
own issues.

Rooster (01:07:18):
Buying a house.

Gizmo (01:07:18):
Right? He hasn't said anything about buying a house,
but I'm assuming that's comingmoving into it. It's coming up.
It's coming up.

Senator (01:07:24):
It's it's tough. In all seriousness, no. I mean, Gizmo's
point, I think, is is the mostimportant one. It's true. Like
It's true.
This person is doing thisbecause it's something that
they're passionate about,something that they enjoy,
something that brings themrelaxation. Like, any partner
in, you know, any relationship,whether you're married or not,
ought to want for that otherperson to, you know, do things

(01:07:45):
that fulfill them, that makethem happy, that make them a
better person. And so, you know,I can't see why if this person,
you know, enjoys this, any soonto be spouse wouldn't want for
that person, them to be happyand and, you know, the ability
to be their best self and

Pagoda (01:08:01):
It's an investment, you know? Yeah. Financial, you know,
values of certain cigars havegone up. Socially, you're gonna
meet a lot of interestingpeople. Mental health wise,
you're really gonna be able toreally take your time.
We call them, you know,whatever, therapy sessions
often. It's just an investment.

Bam Bam (01:08:23):
All very Let

Pagoda (01:08:24):
your future wife know, I'm investing in me and us. Us.
And us.

Bam Bam (01:08:30):
Correct.

Gizmo (01:08:32):
Well said, Pagoda. Yeah. I like that.

Bam Bam (01:08:33):
I was probably a bit of a jerk earlier with my comments,
but No.

Pagoda (01:08:38):
As always.

Yeah. Yeah.

Bam Bam (01:08:41):
I don't deny it.

Gizmo (01:08:43):
No. Listen. I know you're being facetious, but at

Bam Bam (01:08:45):
the end

Gizmo (01:08:45):
of the day, you've had a longstanding understanding with
your wife about your cigarhabit, and you do what you need
to do.

Bam Bam (01:08:52):
And she's not a dummy. She knows what things cost. But,
you know, buying now the flipside of all this is buying a 6
or $700 box of Cuban cigars fora lot of people. That's a lot of
money. That's lot of money.
It's

Gizmo (01:09:02):
a lot of money.

Bam Bam (01:09:03):
You know? Think about that.

Senator (01:09:04):
Yeah. I mean, none of us are advocating go spend
$2,000 on boxes of Cuban cigarsor anything like that, to be
clear.

Bam Bam (01:09:09):
That's correct.

Gizmo (01:09:10):
Correct. And I I think the other thing I'll say too is
if you have a fiance who hatesthat you smoke cigars, really
doesn't like it, pushes backevery time you go, you wanna
figure that out before you putthe ring on your finger. Because
after that, I mean, it's gonnabe very, very hard. And then,
you know, you're gonna there'sgonna be resentment. If you

(01:09:30):
don't handle it early and youwait till later to handle
something like that, it's goingto create resentment.
We've seen a lot of guys gothrough this. All of us have.
Yeah. In just even a few shortyears. Rooster a lot longer.
You know, it can be a reallydifficult thing if you are not
on the same page with yourpartner about, you know, smoking

(01:09:51):
habits. Poor rooster can't catcha break tonight.

Rooster, you look amazing for your age. You look
amazing for your age.

Bam Bam (01:10:00):
He's being fascist.

Gizmo (01:10:04):
So thanks to lizard Blake for that question. And boys,
we're coming into the finalthird now on the Sancho Panza
bellicosos and our sparklingwine pairing. Haven't figured
out how to pronounce yet, butI'll get there. What's everybody
thinking?

Lovely. I think it's picked up a little bit in flavor
and maybe just a tad bit instrength. But it's been it's
been consistent throughout. It'sbeen creamy and chocolatey and

Bam Bam (01:10:30):
no rough edges at all.

Notes. You know, it's been it's been it's been a
great experience.

Senator (01:10:36):
I agree with that. I would say it I do think it has
picked up a little bit in bodyin the final third, which is
nice. Like, this is starting totry to touch medium in a way
that I think the first twothirds didn't really at all. So
I like it. I'm I'm very happywith this cigar.

Bam Bam (01:10:52):
I think it's an excellent cigar.

Pagoda (01:10:54):
Yeah. No. Absolutely. Absolutely excellent. I think,
you know, with the champagne,what was really interesting, it
really kind of, I guess,intensified some of the flavors
for me.
Like could, you know, after,like it was cleansing the palate
and then I was smoking it again.And it's been very, very good. I
think the pairing has beenfantastic as well.

Rooster (01:11:15):
I would say the smoke is also kind of velvety.

Gizmo (01:11:19):
Oh yeah, very good. Kind of does poach your mouth.

Bam Bam (01:11:21):
Agree that.

Oh, especially with the champagne. And you know, to
your point Pagoda, there'ssomething that champagne brings
to the table that some otherpairings don't in that it is a
great palate cleanser. Theeffervescence of it, it just
clears your palate and makes allthose flavors come together in a
really intense fashion.

Bam Bam (01:11:38):
Back to what Rooster said though, the experience of
coating that flavor profile thatyou get, you don't get that in
many cigars.

Rooster (01:11:45):
No. It really lingers for a while.

Bam Bam (01:11:47):
Yeah. It's a special experience when you get to go
through that.

Gizmo (01:11:51):
How do you guys think, and I wanted to wait till this
point to ask it because I've hadmoments of it as we've gone
through, but how do you thinkthe five and a half years of age
has affected this smokingexperience? I know Senator and I
have had these cigars before,but

Bam Bam (01:12:04):
Only you two can comment on that.

Gizmo (01:12:06):
But I'm also, what I'm tasting here, Bam, is a very
refined, mature, you know,complex smoke. Very. You know,
this, I don't think you're gonnaget something like this on a
very fresh cigar, even, youknow, obviously down into the
last third. We've been verylucky. We've been very lucky.

Bam Bam (01:12:21):
Yeah. We've had a few cigars where we've had very
young Cubans, maybe two in ourentire time. I don't remember
what they were that we've hadthis experience, but not many.

Gizmo (01:12:31):
Because it has that kind of aged flavor to it as you're
coming down. There's a little Iwanna use the word mustiness to
the tobacco in a very good

Bam Bam (01:12:39):
way. Maybe a very, very faint touch of barnyard type
thing that I love. I love thatprofile. Yeah. For me, what I've

come to notice in aged cigars, the minerality
becomes kind of dewy. Kind of aI guess it's kind of a touch

Senator (01:12:53):
on the

Bam Bam (01:12:53):
kind
of

Senator (01:12:53):
Dewy

Bam Bam (01:12:53):
and muddy. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's been Yeah, I would guess that's what
it's brought to the table. A lotof balance maybe, just kind of
bringing a very consistentflavor throughout the entire
experience.

Gizmo (01:13:08):
Interesting. Alright, boys. So I I have a question for
you that's gonna tee up a largerdiscussion, and I want to
involve the listeners in this.But first, my question, I saw
this on FOH the other day, and Ithought this actually teed up
this discussion very well. I'mcurious, and and one of the guys
on FOH who's awesome, John s,put up a question asking the FOH
members, what percentage of yourcurrent inventory is Cuban and

(01:13:32):
what percentage is non Cubancigars?
And I'm curious for you guys,percentage wise, what you think
your collection is sitting atright now, Cuban versus non
Cuban. And let's compare thateven to just a few years ago
because I know the way that minehas trended. A great question.

I go first with this. I'm at 3% Cuban.

Bam Bam (01:13:56):
You're building, dude. You're building.

Gizmo (01:14:01):
No. You know what, though?

Bam Bam (01:14:02):
We're with you, man.

Gizmo (01:14:03):
No. We got you. We laugh, but the truth is that I think
your situation and yourpercentage is probably most
closest most closely alignedwith a lot of our listeners out
there. Probably. Know, who onlyhave a few Cubans in there and
and most of their collection isNew World.
Obviously, we got into the game,you know, quite some time ago
before the crazy priceincreases, but, you know, I

(01:14:24):
think yours is very indicativeof of the folks who are are
listening to us, a lot of them.

It's funny. Two years ago, my collection was a
lot smaller. So my percentage ofCubans and new worlds were was
much higher, especially becauseback then Cubans were a lot
cheaper, at least, you know, notas cheap as what you guys got
them five years ago. But, youknow, when I first met you guys
is when I kind of startedstocking up or exploring the
Cuban world. But I've sincesmoked through a lot of those

(01:14:51):
and I haven't really done agreat job in replenishing that
stock.
Because we kind of shiftedtowards new worlds and every
time we find a new world weenjoy a buy a box.

Bam Bam (01:15:00):
But it's also as difficult to source now.

Yeah, that

Bam Bam (01:15:02):
too. Much more difficult. Platforms are
canceling their shipping to TheUS. That's not easy. Yeah.
Yeah.

Gizmo (01:15:11):
So I I would say for me, my tower is probably 75 to 80%
Cuban and 20 to 25% New World atthis point. I think that has
trended quite a bit in the nonCuban Oh, yeah. Direction. It
was probably 85, 15, or ninetyten just two to three years ago,

(01:15:32):
but certainly has gone downquite a bit. I've sold a lot of
stuff.
I've gotten rid of a lot of thethings that weren't ringing my
bell, and I've replaced thatwith a lot of the new worlds
that we've loved. I've got a lotof new worlds in there. I look
today. I have, like, you know,four bundles of of Trinity
Robusto from Fabrica five. Ihave five boxes of Aladino,
Elagantes.

(01:15:52):
I have so many Padrons in therenow, and I the way I used to buy
New Worlds was I would just waittill I had maybe one backup box,
and I'd buy another one or two.I never really load it up like I
do now, but That's a mistake.Age well. A %. But it's just
it's and I the reason why I'vechanged my habits is because of
those kind of discussions andsmoking those Oh, dude.

(01:16:13):
Those cigars that have sat, youknow, in your tower. But that's
where I'm at right now. It'sprobably 75, 20 five.

Bam Bam (01:16:19):
Almost avoid smoking my padrons just to keep them in
there for as long as possible.Like, I've got a lot of old
padrons, and I can't wait totry.

Senator (01:16:27):
You should smoke them. It just means you need to buy
more so that Yeah. You have somany reserve that you're not
touching them. Exactly.

Bam Bam (01:16:33):
And they're so available.

Senator (01:16:34):
I'll say for me, I'm $60.40 Cuban New World. I

Gizmo (01:16:39):
I'm shocked. I thought it was gonna be higher on the Cuban
side.

Senator (01:16:42):
No. I don't I mean, I could be wrong. This

is mister Esclusivo right here.

Gizmo (01:16:47):
I know that. Yeah.

Senator (01:16:48):
Yeah. I I just I mean, outside of my tower, I have,
like, a big, you know,Tupperware with Cubans, a big
Tupperware with New Worlds, andthen and so that's fifty fifty.
And then in my tower

Bam Bam (01:17:01):
Is all is all Cuban?

Senator (01:17:03):
Not all, no. I would say I mean, think of how many
New Worlds we've done in thelast couple of years that we
regularly smoke now. I I'd sayin the tower, maybe seventy
thirty, 60 40, something like Imean, it leans Cuban, but like
of new world stuff that I'msmoking all the time that is in

(01:17:26):
my tower because I'm justregularly pulling. I mean, the
aging room, the Sonata, thePetrone Exclusivo, Adreno
eightieth, the Aladino ClassicElegante, the Aladino Cameroon
Robusto, the stoic. There's somany new worlds that we recently
discovered.
So that just resulted in a lotof box purchases of that stuff

(01:17:46):
that has definitely, I think,changed kind of that balance
that I think historically wasmore like 7030, '70 '5 '20 '5,
but now it's probably like 6040.

Pagoda (01:17:56):
Don't worry, senator. We'll come and audit.

Gizmo (01:18:00):
Pagoda, what's your tower like these days?

Pagoda (01:18:03):
My tower? I would say 30% Cuban. It was about 10%. But
I've been smoking a lot of theNew World's town, and I haven't
been buying a lot of cigars. Sothis year, think I bought the
least amount of boxes.
It's been ridiculous. So I thinkas a result, the percentage of
Cubans is increasing, but I'mcloser to Ricky than you guys.

Gizmo (01:18:26):
Sure. Bam.

Bam Bam (01:18:28):
I'll give you the physical description of what I
have,
and then you tell me what the percentage Here we go.

Senator (01:18:34):
This is teeing up in

Gizmo (01:18:35):
regular accounting All

of a sudden the math expert.

Bam Bam (01:18:39):
Guys know exactly what I have. I'm not hiding anything.

Pagoda (01:18:43):
Listen, before I come and audit yours, can bribe me.
That's what I'm saying.

Bam Bam (01:18:46):
So my tower of power is full 100% Cuban cigars. I have
three of the big tupper doorsthe size of this table. Those
are Cubans.

Gizmo (01:18:58):
How would how for the listener, how big would you say
those

Rooster (01:19:00):
100%

Bam Bam (01:19:02):
How Yeah. But it's a little

Gizmo (01:19:03):
bit tough. How big how the Tupper Tupperador for the
listener out there?

Bam Bam (01:19:06):
It's roughly

Rooster (01:19:07):
The size of this room.

Bam Bam (01:19:08):
By 30 by 20 inches tall.

Gizmo (01:19:13):
Okay. Three of those.

Pagoda (01:19:14):
Damn. You're you're more than Cuba.

Bam Bam (01:19:16):
So those are Cubans.

Wow. These are the Tupadors that people use.

Bam Bam (01:19:19):
But a lot of it's like, you're

Gizmo (01:19:20):
still you're still at a % Cuban?

Bam Bam (01:19:22):
No. But I have so that that's my Cuban, and then I have
three other big tupper doorsfull of new worlds.

Gizmo (01:19:27):
Oh, okay.

Bam Bam (01:19:28):
So I would say

Gizmo (01:19:29):
You're about seventy, thirty, 80, 20?

Bam Bam (01:19:31):
20, I think. Eighty, twenty. Okay.

Rooster (01:19:32):
Yeah. So is it fair to say that BAM has the most number
of cigars?

Bam Bam (01:19:37):
Hell no.

Senator (01:19:38):
I said I have two Tupperware's full of cigars. He
has three.

Bam Bam (01:19:41):
Do you forget those two gentlemen sitting right over
there with the the huge doublewide towers and all the other
stock that they have?

Rooster (01:19:48):
I don't have six Tupperwares. I do. Yeah. Yeah.
Does.

Gizmo (01:19:53):
Yeah. My double wide is full, and I have six Tupperware

Bam Bam (01:19:55):
for only have three

Senator (01:19:56):
Kismos said he was done with Tupperware. That's where he
got

the tower.

Bam Bam (01:19:58):
And does he Do we do we remember that? I

Senator (01:20:03):
don't wanna do Tupperware

Gizmo (01:20:04):
anymore. That's why I'm getting the double one. My ratio
is still correct.

Bam Bam (01:20:10):
Yeah. He counts as cigars in the dark.

Gizmo (01:20:14):
Rooster.

Rooster (01:20:15):
I'm probably

Bam Bam (01:20:16):
You think the darkness is your ally. I was born in the
dark, molded by it,
Defined by it. You can never beat me.

Gizmo (01:20:32):
I didn't know you had a Bane impression in you. That's
pretty good.

Bam Bam (01:20:35):
Correct.

Gizmo (01:20:35):
That's pretty good. Rooster.

Rooster (01:20:37):
I'm probably at seventy thirty. And how has that changed
over

Gizmo (01:20:42):
the last couple of years?

Rooster (01:20:43):
So I'm smoking way less Cubans than I used to.

I think all

Gizmo (01:20:46):
of us are.

Rooster (01:20:47):
And I'm buying less Cubans, and I'm buying a lot
more New Worlds, I think thatratio is gonna change a little
bit. But I'm not smoking a lotof Cubans, so maybe it's not.
So, you know, I'm atseventythirty, I think, give or
take. Okay.

Bam Bam (01:21:00):
Yeah. If Cuban prices weren't what they were, we'd all
be buying And the accessibility.And

Gizmo (01:21:05):
the accessibility.

Bam Bam (01:21:05):
We would still be buying. It's a shame.

Gizmo (01:21:07):
So boys, this is very apropos to this next discussion,
and I want to involve the lizardnation, the listeners out there
in this. So this is a call toaction to please voice your
opinion on this matter. Wereally wanna hear from you. So
this Sancho Panza Bellicoso thatwe have in our hand was one of
the more difficult acquisitionsthat I had for this podcast in

(01:21:32):
quite some time. Obviously, it'scoming we've come now to almost
the end of trying each markerfrom Cuba.
There's certainly other cigarsthat we haven't done, but, you
know, some regular productionshort format and whatnot. Of
course, a lot of regionals andlimitatas, which we can discuss
our interest in those. But I'mwondering if it's time to

(01:21:53):
consider and have a little bitof an existential discussion
here. If it's time to considerthe rhythm and the cadence at
which we smoke Cuban cigars.Right now, we're doing it every
other week, which means we needto acquire, you know, 26, 20
seven unique Cuban cigars a yearin some sort of quantity for

(01:22:13):
this podcast.
And given the limitations ofretailer shipping to The United
States, the price limitations,the accessibility period, I'm
wondering if it's time toconsider changing that rhythm
and that cadence to not doing itevery other week, but maybe
doing it every third week oronce a month to make it a little

(01:22:34):
easier. Because this is I'mstarting to get stressed out
getting Cuban cigars, and and Ican't imagine then for the
listener out there how difficultthis is for folks, you know, who
don't have a podcast, who aren'tdoing this like we do. It's
very, very challenging. So I'mwondering what you and the
listeners have to say about uschanging the rhythm and the

(01:22:55):
cadence of how many Cubans we'reSo

Rooster (01:22:58):
I would say if we are not going down the route of
reviewing more regional Cubancigars, it's going to be tough
to review a lot of new onesbecause there's not that many.
And they don't really come outwith that many cigars. So that's
one option if you do want to gothat route. But I don't think we
really love the regionals. It'susually hit or miss.

(01:23:20):
And they're not cheap. And thenthe accessibility part of it
that how are you going to getthem. So I'm really up for maybe
do it just once a month. Do aCuban once a month and do three
new worlds.

Bam Bam (01:23:33):
I'm with you.

Rooster (01:23:33):
Because there's a lot more new worlds out there to

Gizmo (01:23:37):
be Explored.

Rooster (01:23:39):
To be explored and had. So that's my view.

Senator (01:23:42):
Yeah. I agree on moving to once a month with Cubans, not
so much because I'm concernedabout running out of Cubans to
review. I mean, I think we'vetalked about this, know, Cuban
cigars, they go on runs. They'rethey're not a particularly
consistent product, so we couldgo through almost the entire
catalog at a different point intime and have a wildly different
experience.

Rooster (01:24:02):
And we started to do that.

Gizmo (01:24:03):
Exactly. We're doing that already. Exactly.

Senator (01:24:05):
So to me, that's not the reason to do any of this. I
think the accessibility is ahuge, huge factor, And there's
really I don't see utility indoing a ton of Cuban cigars a
year and reviewing them if theoverwhelming majority of our
listeners are not gonna be ableto source them in this
environment. And now even forlisteners who live in countries

(01:24:26):
that can get their hands onthese things, even though still
obviously inventory is limited,the prices are so exorbitant
that I think we know, you know,the overwhelming majority of us
are not buying Cubans in thequantity that we once were. So
for all those reasons, I I thinkit makes a ton of sense to, you
know, do a Cuban cigar once amonth. It doesn't mean we still

(01:24:48):
don't love them, but it's thereality of kind of the world
that we're all living in rightnow that this is no longer like
a readily accessible or evenaffordable product to, you know,
consume often in the way thatthat is true still for, you
know, all new world cigars.

Yeah. In lockstep with you guys. Think especially,
you know, with the Cuban cigarsbeing at the price points that
they are, there's a boomhappening on the new world side
because they want to takeadvantage of the fact that, you
know, Cuban cigars are now moredifficult to get, much more
expensive to get into. You know,that they're they're they're

(01:25:25):
really stepping their game upsand their blends and their
flavor profiles. There's a lotof boutique brands out there
like the Stoics that, you know,are are coming in front of us
that are delicious and greatsurprises, I look forward to
those.

Bam Bam (01:25:38):
Yeah. Agreed. I agree.

Pagoda (01:25:41):
I'm heartbroken.

Bam Bam (01:25:44):
Life.

Pagoda (01:25:49):
There comes the end of my, you know, Cuban cigar
journey.

Senator (01:25:52):
It's not the end.

Pagoda (01:25:53):
No. Again Again, my palate moves towards, you know,
the medium, you know, flavorprofile and strength and

Bam Bam (01:26:00):
Just as your palate adjusted, we're taking it away
from you.

Pagoda (01:26:03):
You're taking it away from me.

Rooster (01:26:05):
Well, I I

Gizmo (01:26:06):
think to, you know, to to chef's point, I I think the
thing that makes this morepalatable for me is I I think
there's been a lot of the a lotof time where we've walked in
the room as a group and we'veseen a New World, a non Cuban
cigar that we weren't familiarwith, and we kind of gritted our

(01:26:27):
teeth a little bit, a littlenervous. Like, what's tonight
gonna be like? And I I thinkwhat's changed over the last
year for me is opt I'm a lotmore optimistic because we've
found a lot of great non Cubancigars that have entered our
regular rotation, and I thinkit's just been a matter of
hearing from listeners aboutwhat's smoking great, trying new

(01:26:47):
things, you know, tobacco andblends and and, you know, origin
points that we appreciate anddiving into them, you know, at a
price point and and and that'saccessible and they're easy to
get, you know? So that's whatmakes it a little bit more
palatable for me changing thecadence of it. But you know,

(01:27:09):
again, I want to hear frominternational listeners, as
senator just mentioned, but I'veheard from them as well that,
you know, to go out and buy a aPartagas d four is a $60.70, $80
US experience with with tax andeverything else.

Now, for the

Gizmo (01:27:25):
international listeners,

would it be just as difficult for them to get their
hands on some of these newworlds that we're smoking?

Gizmo (01:27:32):
Some of them, yes. But some of them, no. You know, so I
think we'd have to be verycalculated and smart about, you
know, if we're doing a big brandone week, we do a boutique one
week, we do a Cuban, you know,we kinda fall into a different
rhythm. You know? We have tofigure that out.
And again, I'd love to hear fromlisteners on this because this
is very much an open discussion.We're not making a decision

(01:27:53):
tonight, but I've I I reallyfeel like we have come to a
point where we've turned thepage. We're starting to revisit
some of the Cuban cigars that wereviewed early in the podcast
three, four years ago now. Itseems like that's kind of the
point that we hit reset and trysome stuff again with runs. But,
you know, it's it's just a verydifferent world.

(01:28:14):
And then, you know, the otherthing too is, yes, could I reach
out and and hit some folks upthat have access to great cigars
internationally? Could I findcigars? Yes, but then we have
the customs risk. So then wespend all that money and then
the cigars get clipped tocustoms, which I've had
happened. Forget all that.

Senator (01:28:30):
The listener can't get them.

Gizmo (01:28:31):
Exactly right. That's the biggest problem. And that's
where I was going. Was, youknow, if we can't get them, you
know, it's it's going to beexponentially harder because I
spend a lot of time trying tosource this stuff. Yeah.
You know, so it's just a verydifficult prospect right now for
everybody getting their hands onCupid Cigars unless you live in
Hong Kong and you have a billiondollars.

Bam Bam (01:28:49):
You know, chef asked an interesting point. It'd be it'd
be pretty cool to hear fromlisteners in Europe and other
parts of the world to get asense as to what new world
cigars they do have access to.I'd like to hear that. Can they
get a Padron, Exclusiva? Whichis a for It's staple for us and
we can get it anywhere here.
I'd love to know the answer tothat question. The Aladino, is

(01:29:12):
that available worldwide? Theyare distributing throughout
Europe. It'd be great to knowwhere. So if there are listeners
out there, please email us.
We'd love to hear that.

Gizmo (01:29:21):
So we will report back in the coming weeks as to what we
decide. We'll read some emails,of course, of what we hear from
you guys out there. So please docontribute your opinion on this
subject to us. Let us know whatyou think about lengthening the
time in between Cuban cigarepisodes and filling that with
non Cuban cigars. So I thinkthat's the I think that's the
route we're gonna have to go.

(01:29:42):
I just don't know what therhythm's gonna be, so we shall
see. Great point. So, boys,we're coming to the end of our
evening now with the CaveLaurents Cremant, the sparkling
wine from Burgundy, and theSancho Panza, Bellicosos. What's
everybody think about thepairing before we get into our
ratings tonight?

Bam Bam (01:29:57):
Is simply a delicious evening, I think, all around.

Pagoda (01:29:59):
I think the pairing was fantastic.

Bam Bam (01:30:01):
There is not a single I don't have a single complaint.
In fact, I would like to do thisagain after our podcast. It's
just delicious all around. Iknow what my rating's gonna be.
Yeah.
Me too.

Gizmo (01:30:12):
Yeah. So let's get into that, boys. It's time now to do
the formal liquor rating tonighton the Cave Laurents Cremant.
Bam bam, you're up.

Bam Bam (01:30:19):
Yeah. I haven't ever had this before. I would get
cases of this, especially forthe spring and summer, but I can
drink this all year round forunder $20 for how it drinks, how
sophisticated it is, that dryfinish that I get at the end,
the creaminess in the middle,and the sweetness in the front,

(01:30:41):
that's pretty sophisticated. I'mat a 10. I don't know how you
can't give this a 10 tonight,boys.

Gizmo (01:30:48):
All right. Chef, pressure.

I'm going to succumb to it and give it a 10.

Pagoda (01:30:55):
You're succumb the Yeah.

I I'm telling you this is an amazing experience.
It's an amazing price point.It's an amazing sparkling wine.
And if someone just so happenedto fuck up and turn it into
mimosa, I wouldn't be upset.

Bam Bam (01:31:10):
That's true.

You know? You can do anything you my wife would
easily do or one of my friendsthat come over and they grab a
bottle. I would not be at allworried about what they're
grabbing because of the pricepoint. I could just load up my
wine fridge with this and

Bam Bam (01:31:25):
be There is one problem. We don't have a third
bottle.

Gizmo (01:31:28):
Yeah. That is a problem. Absolutely.

Bottle king. We might

Senator (01:31:32):
be going to Casa Senador after this.

Gizmo (01:31:34):
Oh. Pagoda.

Pagoda (01:31:37):
Yeah. It's ten ten wins. It's it's a 10. It's a 10.

Gizmo (01:31:44):
For the listener out there, when when Pagoda
references that, that's a radiostation in the New York Metro
Area that does pretty much newsand weather. AM. AM. It's an AM
station. That's all they do isnews and weather and sports

Bam Bam (01:31:57):
all day It's very dry and verbose. Yes. A

Gizmo (01:32:00):
great Ten ten wins.

Pagoda (01:32:01):
But this is fantastic considering the price point. You
know, I've been thinking aboutit. It's very flavorful. It was
a bit sweeter for me in thebeginning, but, you know, once
my palate adjusted to it, it wasperfect. Really enjoyed it.
I can see, I see, like, I knowSenator and I had a summer last

(01:32:21):
year where we did so muchchampagne. I could see us
repeating it this year with, youknow, this particular champagne.
This has been fantastic. Lookingforward to the summer. Senator,
cheers once again for findingout, Finding an you know, it's
like a gem, you know?
Like, you have to go hunting forthese things. And if you find a

(01:32:42):
gem, you've gotta be able toshare it with the world,
although, you know, the pricemay go up, but it's been a
fantastic experience tonight.

Gizmo (01:32:50):
So for me, it's also a 10. I mean, at $15 for how this
drinks, if you told me this wasa champagne that that was a 60
or $70 bottle, I would totallybelieve you, hands down. It
drank brilliantly. It pairedgreat with a cigar. I think it'd
be great with food.
I think it would be great withcaviar. I I just all around, I

(01:33:10):
think this is a home run, and Ithink we have now begun a new
journey into lower pricesparkling spirit pairings this
podcast, and I think that is aten ten win right

Bam Bam (01:33:22):
there.

This will pair beautifully with fucking
buttered toast. Like, it doesn'tmatter.

Bam Bam (01:33:26):
Whatever you put

with, you know, it's it's amazing.

Bam Bam (01:33:29):
I want that risotto dish. Yeah. You're not getting
out

of that.

Bam Bam (01:33:32):
I don't want no buttered toast. I want that
risotto.

Gizmo (01:33:35):
Alright, senator. Heard that.

Senator (01:33:37):
Yes. This this was tough for me because I I've been
debating between a nine and a10.

Did you

Pagoda (01:33:44):
Oh, please.

Gizmo (01:33:45):
We should have gone to him first.

Ten ten wins, baby. Ten ten wins.

Bam Bam (01:33:49):
Come on, man. Keep going. It's $15. Put it aside
for one night.

Senator (01:33:53):
I'm gonna I'm gonna rate it for the experience
tonight with this cigar. Andbecause of that, I'm gonna give
it a 10. There you go. And thereason I say that I mean, you
know, the price point is whatfactors into this. You know?
For me, if I were to taketonight's experience out of it,
I would give it a nine. And theonly reason is the one complaint

(01:34:14):
I have is I just wish there werea little bit more to this. I
mean, you know, Polar Gey is onthe lighter side, but has more
body than this does. That's myonly singular complaint. And
this, because it doesn't have asmuch body as I would ideally
like, it is unbelievablydangerous in terms of how much
of this you can drink.

Bam Bam (01:34:33):
Yep.

Senator (01:34:33):
It is so smooth, creamy, and easy drinking. I
mean, you could put back abottle very quickly and not even
realize that you've done so.Mhmm. But the merits of that the
merits of it is, you know, theflavor profile is very balanced,
very pleasurable, and, you know,the thing for me with budget

(01:34:56):
sparkling wines generally, Ifind outside of France, they all
have somewhat of an aftertaste.It's very bizarre, but they all
do.
And it's just like varyingdegrees of it, and you're kinda
compromising on, like, what isthe least offensive on your

(01:35:18):
palate when you're done drinkingit? And there's something so
special about what they're ableto do with sparkling wine in
France because that's the onlysparkling that I never had that.
Like, the finish is so clean,and at a $15, even 20 retail
price point, it is insane thatthat still holds true and is the
case. So, honestly, if anythingI have probably ever brought in

(01:35:42):
this pod, I may be proudest ofthis. And the reason I say that,
I've spent my entire adult lifesince I started drinking
champagne

Bam Bam (01:35:51):
At 12.

Senator (01:35:52):
Trying to find a truly great budget sparkling that I
would actually be comfortableserving in my own home. Truly,
if I have people over, the onlysparkling I the cheapest
sparkling I'll serve is PaulRoger. I just I have not found
anything else that I, like, loveenough. Now if I'm just with the

(01:36:14):
guys and we're just drinkingvolume, I mean, Shandong, like
Pagoda and I have said, like,we'll drink that. But I mean,
like, I'm entertaining.
I'm having, you know, a birthdayparty for my son or some kind of
thing. I just I can't be proudof any other sparkling I've had
other than true champagne. Thisis the only thing. I've been
searching for so many years tofind something that, like, I

(01:36:37):
would so happily pour someonesays, what is that? I have no
idea what that is.
And I would tell them happilyshare the price point, and I
have no doubt that they would bethrilled with what they're
drinking. I'm so grateful thatBottle King has stocked
sparkling from France that's notfrom the Champagne region. I
hope that a lot of other liquorstores start looking into this

(01:36:58):
and doing it because there isgreat stuff out there, and every
occasion doesn't call forneeding to open a $50.60, 70
plus dollar bottle of sparkling.You know, we want things that we
can enjoy every day. We love,you know, Havana Club, Florida
Cana Seven.
Those are $25 bottles of spiritsthat are just for every day.

(01:37:21):
They're not for a big specialoccasion. Champagne has always
needed that, and for people inFrance and in Europe, they can
get that. It's very hard for usto get that here. So I'm sorry
for the lengthy, you know,review on this, but I am just
eternally grateful.
I hope that this gets made inperpetuity. Yeah. And I really

(01:37:41):
hope that the quality neverchanges because what they've
done in this bottle is perfectfor its price

Bam Bam (01:37:46):
point. Totally agree.

Gizmo (01:37:47):
Well said. Amen. So boys, that puts the formal liquorating
tonight on the Cave, Laurence,Cremant at $8.10.

Bam Bam (01:37:55):
Correct.

Gizmo (01:37:55):
Perfect score tonight on I can't, again, I'm gonna say
this one more time, I can'tbelieve that bottle is $15

Bam Bam (01:38:01):
I know.

Gizmo (01:38:01):
I can't believe it.

Bam Bam (01:38:02):
It's insane.

Gizmo (01:38:03):
I think any of us would have rated that exactly the same
if it was a $40 bottle.

I'm so excited for the split wise. You

Senator (01:38:13):
wanna you wanna know the wildest thing? The first
time I bought this and tried it,I missed this. I didn't know any
better because I hadn't triedit. There was this limited sale,
believe it or not, at BottleKing, it was $13 a bottle. No.
Come on. But I hadn't had it inthe past, so I just got two
bottles. I said even if I hate,you know, the one I try,
whatever, I'll just throw theother one out. But then, of

(01:38:35):
course, when I went to stock up,I was past the sale at that
point. But I I hope they havethat again because I think we're
all gonna load up

Bam Bam (01:38:42):
on you. You better believe it.

You know, senator, what I've noticed is as it warms
a little bit, the body picks up.

Senator (01:38:48):
I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Which we've learned with
sparklings generally. You know,there's a tendency everyone
wants, like, ice cold champagne,and champagne is meant to be
cold.
It's meant to be chilled, butnot aggressively chilled because
that's where you actually lose alot of the flavor and the nuance
and the subtlety that's there.And even a chef is pointing out,
like, you can lose the body in,what is meant to be a lighter

(01:39:12):
sparkling. It becomes evenharder to really appreciate the
full structure when it's servedtoo cold. So as it's come down,
it's definitely gotten better.And that's been a common
experience I feel like we'vehad.

It's the same thing in the culinary world when
you're seasoning a dish that'smeant to be served cold, you
generally season it a little bithigher because of that.
Interesting. So yeah. It's aMhmm. It's it's a known fact.
Yeah.

Pagoda (01:39:35):
I see Bam taking notes. Doing that.

Gizmo (01:39:39):
Alright, boys. It's time now for the formal lizard rating
tonight on the Sancho Panza.Bellicosos from Cuba, Rooster
Europe.

Bam Bam (01:39:46):
This cigar is a triumph.
He nailed it. I caution you, gentlemen,
to properly rate the cigar.

I'm getting a little Sean Connery on that.

Gizmo (01:40:03):
It's actually Sean Connery meet Bane.

Senator (01:40:05):
I'll bring you champagne to every pod just for
this.

Bam Bam (01:40:09):
Be very careful.

Gizmo (01:40:12):
We need French sparkling, senator. French sparkling for
Bain.

Rooster (01:40:16):
So the Sancho Panza is apparently a budget marker.

Gizmo (01:40:20):
Allegedly. Allegedly. I mean, it's

Rooster (01:40:22):
$30 a stick now. I mean, think about it. The bottle
of champagne is $15 and thecigar is $30 per stick. Mean,
being that it's a budget mark orit was apparently, and they
don't really make this is theonly size they make now. But I
mean, having said that, it's adelicious cigar.

(01:40:42):
Started off really creamy. Ithad a little bit of a nuttiness
to it as well. The smoke coatedyour mouth. It was really
velvety throughout. And no burnissues, had great construction,
very good smoke output.
I really liked it. I mean, wasreally no complaints about the

(01:41:03):
cigar. I mean, it was adelicious smoke. The aroma was
very good. It got some reallynice notes from the cigar.
But it is a $30 cigar. I mean,like all Cubans now, I mean,
there's really nothing thatyou're gonna find much cheaper.
But having said all of that, Ithink I'm at nine on this cigar.

Gizmo (01:41:23):
All right. Senator.

Senator (01:41:24):
I'm in lockstep with Roussretta nine. I'm just really
surprised. And in fact, I'veactually had two of these prior
to smoking this, and I'mremembering now from two
different people I got thiscigar. And neither time did I
think it was a bad cigar, butthere was nothing inspiring
about it. This was inspiring.
I mean, I would absolutely smokethis again. It's nice to see

(01:41:46):
that age really does somethingspecial for this cigar. I mean,
you know, there are some cigarsthat we've had that they don't
need age. They're ready to smokeyoung and especially more recent
releases out of Cuba. I thinkthis it's worth the time
investment to just let this sitfor a few years.
It lacks that creaminess thatjust brings everything together

(01:42:09):
and delivers a more refinedexperience. I think we all
looked at the cigar, talkedabout how rustic it was. None of
us thought it was particularlyrefined and young. The flavor
profile kind of matches thatexperience. Age elevates that
experience.
So I'm really happy to see that.I think, you know, the only
reason I'm not a 10, the flavorprofile, while very much in my

(01:42:34):
wheelhouse, I still would haveliked a little more complexity,
whether it was a transition thatchanged that a bit or just some
other distinct flavor notes Iwas getting beyond, you know,
the the cocoa and cream and someof the things that we and
nuttiness that we talked a lotabout. But really just a a great
surprise, and it's sad to methat these are now $30 because

(01:42:55):
years ago, mean, Sancho Ponza onany the

Rooster (01:42:59):
sites $8 ago. Yeah.

Senator (01:43:00):
Oh my lord. The price point was so affordable, and
they sat. I mean, this was nevera coveted or, you know,
aggressively pursued Cubanmarket. And the fact that this
is now hard to get, and $30 isjust ridiculous. So that's the
only part that's a tragedy tome, but that aside, the flavor
is really excellent, and I Ihope to smoke another one again.

Gizmo (01:43:23):
So for me, it's a 10. I can't find flaw in this cigar
tonight. It was effortless.Thought the flavor was
incredible, and especially for acigar that I would characterize
as mild. For how much flavor wewere getting out of that, we've

Bam Bam (01:43:39):
had incredible.

Gizmo (01:43:40):
A lot of mild cigars that are just flat and boring and
don't keep our attention andthey're not interesting and not
because we need something morein strength, but because we want
flavor. And this cigar tonightdelivered flavor. It was
complex. It was interesting. Itkept my attention the entire
time.

(01:44:01):
It was easy to smoke. It wasdelicious. The creaminess, it
was salty. The retrohale wasbrilliant. You know, Bam is over
there with

Bam Bam (01:44:08):
It's a quarter inch.

Gizmo (01:44:09):
Quarter inch, still smoking the cigar. It's good. I
can't get over it. I do hesitatethough with my 10, and I'm gonna
keep it there, but I am gonnaput an asterisk on that for the
listener and remind them that wesmoked a cigar that was five and
a half years old tonight. Yeah.
So if you were to look at theother cigars that senator and I
have talked about smokingpreviously, he had two, I had

(01:44:32):
one, I don't know if that cigarwould have even gotten a seven
or

Senator (01:44:35):
an eight. So I wouldn't go that far. I mean, my
experience, I would say minimumeach would have gotten a seven.

Gizmo (01:44:42):
So I would say the same. I would say maybe a seven, maybe
an eight on, you know, somethinglike that. But tonight, this
cigar was brilliant. So I do puta little bit of an asterisk for
the age on it. Then the othercomplaint, of course, not to
repeat everybody, but the priceis a problem.
30. The accessibility, thedifficulty in getting these,

(01:45:02):
it's just a tragedy that thismarket is overlooked. It's not
easy to get, and it's justpriced too high. But given all
that, the experience in the roomtonight, the cigar was perfect.
It's a 10 for me.
Pagoda.

Pagoda (01:45:15):
It's a 10 for me. I think I'd already mentioned it
earlier, was a 10 to 10 Wow.

Bam Bam (01:45:19):
I'm surprised at that.

Pagoda (01:45:20):
It was very, very easy to smoke. Loved the smoke
output. You know, theconstruction was great, so you
begin with that. The flavorprofile was very, very good. I
think I experienced, you know,the same thing, the creaminess
of the cocoa, a bit of coffeethere, saltiness.
I think initially it got alittle salty for me extra, but

(01:45:42):
you know, that dissipated and itwas just the right balance for
me. I think having it with thechampagne, the combination was
great. The pairing was justreally fantastic because I think
for me what it did was slightlyintensify some of the flavors
and I was really, really gettingthe, you know, the cocoa, deep
cocoa, I've really enjoyed theflavor profile in terms of the

(01:46:04):
sweetness and the saltiness. Andyou know, easy smoke, great
smoke out, but you know I can'tfault it for anything. Yeah,
meaning the price andaccessibility, you know I would
traditionally give it a nine,typically you know considering
the price and accessibility.

Bam Bam (01:46:20):
You're a value guy.

Pagoda (01:46:21):
I am a value guy, but today the experience you know,
with the champagne was sofantastic. The pairing that, you
know, I think Bam, you hadmentioned it. I wouldn't mind a
repeat of this.

Bam Bam (01:46:31):
Absolutely.

Pagoda (01:46:31):
And you know, in terms of the experience, definitely a
10.

Gizmo (01:46:35):
Alright. Chef Ricky.

I'm at a 10 as well. You know, mostly because of the
surprise that I've that Iexperienced throughout this. You
know, the cold draw was kind offlat for me. There wasn't a
whole lot outside of some lightcedar. The the aroma of the foot
was slight hay and some cedar,but then fire brought this thing

(01:46:58):
to life.
You know, the nuttiness, thesweetness, the creaminess. Some
I got some slight vanillacaramel coffee happening and
then it picked up in strength onthat last third. In true Bella
Coso fashion, it might haveneeded a little bit of touch ups
towards that final third. But,you know, it it delivered

(01:47:21):
everything that it didbeautifully. The champagne
really, really elevated it forme or the sparkling wine rather.
Yeah, even at $30, what was thecigar five years ago? Price
point. Probably 10 to 15. So buyit today and save it for five
and a half years because it'sonly gonna go up in price.

Bam Bam (01:47:39):
If you can find it.

It's only gonna go up in price. But hopefully you
have this experience that we hadtoday because this was truly a
memorable one and I'd love to doit again. So it's a 10 for me.

Bam Bam (01:47:50):
Alright, Bam. Something's going on over here.

Pagoda (01:47:53):
What's good?

Rooster (01:47:56):
Pretty good.

Pagoda (01:47:57):
I was getting hot bone.

Gizmo (01:48:01):
Jeez.

Bam Bam (01:48:02):
I am at it. For what alright. For what this cigar was
tonight, I am at a 10. I lovethis cigar. I thought from
beginning to end it wasdelicious.
It was consistent in the flavorprofile. It just intensified
slightly, but I took this downto a quarter of an inch. I
didn't get a single rough edge,no ammonia at all. Very rare

(01:48:25):
experience. The flavor was justoutrageous.
I continued to get that littlebit of banana and tapioca at the
end. It got a little richer.

I love when you call out the tapioca

Bam Bam (01:48:35):
note. For me, it was there.

It's a nuance of cream.

Bam Bam (01:48:39):
But there's that slight weird flavor that tapioca has,
and I was getting it in

Gizmo (01:48:43):
this spot.

Senator (01:48:43):
Look at these two.

Bam Bam (01:48:44):
It's crazy. I'm gonna get Double

Gizmo (01:48:46):
meat twins.

Senator (01:48:47):
Sous chef bam.

Bam Bam (01:48:48):
Correct. Now, Bain's in the bathroom. So let me get this
out. This was it was just anexcellent experience. I'm at a
10.

Gizmo (01:48:56):
Excellent. Yeah. Alright, boys. That puts the formal
lizard rating tonight on theSancho Panza Bellicosos. The
debut from Sancho Panza on thepod tonight at a 9.7.
Wow. What a score. Wow.

Rooster (01:49:08):
Wow. For a Sancho Panza. For a Sancho Panza.

Bam Bam (01:49:10):
Yeah, man. I am I am back, gentlemen. I am back. I am
disappointed at the nine seven.This is a triumph.
Thank

Gizmo (01:49:23):
you, Bane. Alright. Alright, boys. A great night
tonight. Of course, first, wehave to thank Lizard O for
hooking us up with these cigars,helping us source them.
That was a huge help because wereally wanted to do these, and
we have a lot of listenersasking us when's the Sancho
Ponza coming? And we are finallyable to do it tonight. Of

(01:49:44):
course, as I mentioned, we wannahear from listeners on the topic
of changing the cadence of howoften we smoke Cuban cigars on
this podcast. So please do sendus an email or send us a note
sharing your thoughts on thattopic. Of course, we have to
thank Lizard Alley, our lizardof the week.
We really appreciate that greatemail on sparkling wine. Of
course, Lizards Blake and Johnfrom Boise for their great email

(01:50:06):
as well. Of course, we have tothank our sponsor, Fabrica five.
They are great partners to us.We really appreciate them.
So go try some of their cigars.We are smoking them en masse,
and I hope that you are too.

Bam Bam (01:50:16):
We love you, Rob. One more

Gizmo (01:50:19):
one more time tonight on the ratings, the Cave, Lawrence,
Cremant scored a perfect 10, thesparkling wine from Burgundy,
and the Sancho Panza Bellicososfrom Cuba scored a 9.7. A great
night, boys. An awesome pairing,and, we'll see everybody next
week.

Pagoda (01:50:36):
Fucking best. Oh, Bob, you've come bustling.

Gizmo (01:50:39):
Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us.
You could find our merch storeand ratings archive at our brand
new website,loungelizardspod.com. That's
loungelizardsp0d.com. Don'tforget to leave us a rating and
subscribe on your favoritepodcast platform.
If you have any comments,questions, if you wanna reach
out, say hello, tell us whatyou're smoking, email us. Hello

(01:51:00):
at lounge lizards pod dot com.You can also find us on
Instagram at lounge lizards pod.We really appreciate your time,
and we'll, we'll see you nextweek.

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