Julie Winkle Giulioni: Career Conversations Organizations Need and Employees Want

Episode Recap:

Career development is broken, and our expectations have not kept pace with the reality of today’s workplace, according to today’s guest, Julie Winkle Giulioni. Julie co-authored the classic bestseller Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go, which has been re-released in an expanded version. Julie argues that career development is the single most powerful tool managers have for driving retention, engagement, productivity, and results, and she provides managers with the types of conversations they must have with their employees. Today, we’re talking about developing and growing employees.

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• Treating development as an annual checkmark, an “I don’t have time” mentality, and talent scarcity—these are all common mistakes managers make when it comes to career development. Guest Julie Winkle Giulioni explains the challenges in organizational career development. “There are assumptions that lie under the surface, that drive behavior that is not in the leader, nor the employee, nor the organization's best interest.” [13:07]
• Development is driven by relationships and conversations—small pockets of time already enveloped in the time we’re spending with our team. It’s all about conversation. Julie profoundly exclaims that it’s not about something on your to-do list; it's about who you are. “The key is to underburden ourselves as leaders when it comes to development.” [15:58]
• It’s no secret that organizations have gone through a lot of changes since the pandemic. With more people working remotely, productivity and performance have continued to be maintained—but what about development? Julie dedicated an entire chapter to this quandary. After surveying, she found it’s all about intentionality—something as simple as weekly one-on-ones with five minutes centered on development. “There is no silver bullet. What you need to do is everything you would do with people who are co-located but do it with greater intention.” [22:40]
• Straight up is not the only path for your development. Julie shares an analogy that compares the career ladder to rock climbing—the challenge and experience that comes from stretching out and trying something new right where you are, with *and* without support. “We are always feeling like growth looks like going somewhere else, when the truth is the only thing we have full control over in our work is our work... and there is so much room for improvement there.” [32:19]
• The world is changing, and we are all aware of it. Roles are changing, jobs are changing, so how can we future-proof our careers? When Julie looks into her “crystal ball,” she shares her vision for the future of career development over the next decade. “Less of a focus on pathways, and more of a focus on possibilities.” [37:12]
• Hopes, dreams, fears, aspirations… these are all parts of development and represent a truly intimate way we interact with our teams. Leaders who embody this—it’s love in action. “Attending someone's development is the most loving way we interact as leaders with those around us.” [40:00]
• Key Takeaway: Julie brings home the episode with a final thought and the idea behind all her work: “Development is not a to-do. Development is a to-be. It’s a relationship. It’s how we show up day in and day out.” [40:40]

Mentioned in this episode: Website: Julie Winkle Giulioni

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