10. How to Be a Supportive Lovejoy Fan - an Interview with Music Industry Pro, Vinny Ribus

Guest Vinny Ribus knows the music industry inside and out. Listen and learn how Lovenjoyers can best support and advocate for the band. He even has some ideas for Lovejoy too! Beyond streaming, fans have the power to really impact the success of a band and now, with their debut album, One Simple Trick on the horizon, they could REALLY use our help!

Lesley and Dave talk about all of the news that's popped up over the past few weeks including behind-the-scenes video on LVJY ETC for the music videos, With Rob as My Witness, and Pay & Display. A new single and an intimate album release gig announcement make this an incredibly exciting time for Lovejoy and the fandom.

Please take a moment to visit Vinny's website, www.cartne.com A robust source for music industry knowledge and lessons presented by experts of their field!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Lovejoy Nation Podcast.
It is a busy time in Lovejoy Land and we are all grateful and
blessed, as Dave would say. Absolutely.
And what have you been up to since we last recorded Dave?
Well, hello, what have I been upto?

(00:22):
Nothing really. It's all, as we've sort of said
previous back to school, back towork after the summer.
The rains come in, the evenings are getting darker, but I am
having a little midweek vacation, as you folks say.
I've got one of them coming up out in the New Forest, so I'm

(00:45):
looking forward to that. What else am I up to?
Wow. There is something like a gig in
London, but I can't remember whothat is.
What about yourself? When you remember Liz now.
I will OK. I'm back to the grind, back to
school. That's what's mostly going on
now. We have some fun things up

(01:05):
ahead. Renfair and a record fair at the
Brooklyn Flea Market coming up next weekend.
It's about 40 different record stores are coming together and
bringing their wares. Yeah, it's going to be fun.
So hopefully the weather cooperates.
Unlike you, we've had like no rain here.
We've had a a drought, it's verydry and actually we all want the

(01:30):
rain, which is kind of unusual, I know, but.
We've pretty much had nearly a fortnight of rain on and off
now, in which, to be fair, the last time we had rain was when
you were in England. So you had a dry patch too, but
dry spell? Yeah, absolutely.

(01:51):
So what's on the show tonight? Well, let's, oh, let's just
first address that. You only hear 2 voices today
because Angie is tied up with the being Mom taxi to Pebble
today and couldn't make it. She couldn't join us.
But she did join us for the interview that will come after
we talk. So the yeah, we have some
Lovejoy news to talk about sincewe last spoke.

(02:16):
There was a short. I think we both can agree that
it was too short. Very yes.
Far too short. Behind the scenes video that
Lovejoy put out on Lovejoy etcetera.
There spin off channel on YouTube for behind the scenes
types of things. Yes they did it behind the
scenes for the rob video and payand display A2 Fer if you will.

(02:39):
But yes too short. It was only 9 or so minutes,
definitely 10 minutes. Just under 10 minutes.
It was good. It's great.
I like that sort of thing because I like to do stuff
effectively behind the camera, behind the scenes.
So that's my thing. Interesting to see the crew and
the the other artists and and makeup and everything like that.

(03:04):
I really do like that sort of stuff.
Did it's fun to see the the goofy funny thing?
Yeah, absolutely. From the band.
Yeah, the goofiness, the silliness.
But yeah, it was it could have done with another at least 15
minutes. I always think that when they
have, they must have so much footage from these things and

(03:26):
concerts and festivals and such that they're just saving it for
something else. So we just have to be patient.
We'll see more down the road. Maybe.
Yeah, never know. And then Noisiak posted.
Was it a story or a post where they showed how they did the
elevator? It was both actually.
Yeah how how they done the elevator.

(03:48):
Been really enjoying noisy acts posts.
That was neat to see. And I was thinking about it
while now watching the video again, how it worked.
You know that you you, you believe that it's a real
elevator working, but in realityit's cleverly done to look like
obviously a real elevator. And I was curious how they did

(04:09):
the when the elevator like stopsand they like sort of bounce, do
they just all let's bounce at the same time or?
Literally yes, it is a countdown543. 21 That's cool.
It's like I'm dating myself, butactually this is way older than
me. The Music Man movie, when
they're on the train, I've seen it on stage as well.

(04:29):
When they're on that in that train scene, they're all
bouncing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
Know they're all just bouncing, yeah, but it works.
That's very effective. I love that.
Yeah. So that was fun.
And then? Yeah, it really was fun.
I know the rest of the band didn't really have when I say
much to do, obviously they had to film their footage of.

(04:49):
The right. Music.
It was good to see them hanging out in the back and.
Being around for the the filmingin general and I liked when Will
came back over to them. They're like, oh, I'm in the
band again and and just seeing him be silly and happy behind
the scenes when these shoots, he's looking so scared or sad or

(05:10):
upset. It is nice to see the levity
when the camera was enough. Absolutely.
Yeah, we'll take as much as we can get a bit.
Yeah, if I'm out and about and they're filming movies, TV
programs, whatever, I really enjoy just watching the behind
the scenes. It doesn't matter who's the
actor is, I just really enjoy it.

(05:33):
So yeah, that was good, just like we said numerous times,
just far too short. Come on, love, Joy.
Yes, you got a whole channel there.
You can do more. Absolutely.
You know, not like you have anything else going on.
Yeah, and what else was released?
There was something about a gig on the 24th of September.

(05:55):
Is that the gig you were talkingabout earlier that you couldn't
remember? Yeah, that's it.
It's 24th of September, Islington O2, Lovejoy dropping
there album show what can I say?For the first and only time, I
believe they're going to play the show debut album in its in
its entirety in front of an audience.

(06:15):
Yeah, which says to me that you're not going to get all the
songs on tour. No, guessing not.
Yeah, I guess that isn't a thing.
I was mistaken when I thought like, maybe for the new album
they'll do all the songs, but now they'll do a mix of old and
new. Yeah, and I got tickets, so I'm

(06:36):
going. How'd you manage that, Dave?
How'd you manage to get those tickets, the other high demand?
What can I say? Gave Ash a ring.
No I didn't. No I didn't.
No I didn't. Obviously we've spoken about on
previous pods and I missed out on a presale.

(06:57):
I was out in the middle of nowhere, Signal wasn't great and
I got online about, well, I got on at 10:00 but it just wasn't
happening. Then I I had to drive a mile or
so down the road and about 5 past 10 I come back on and they
were gone. I'm not going to lie, absolutely
gutted. So then a couple of days later

(07:20):
I'd spoken to you guys and you both got up early to help me
out. Sure did.
I think we all got online at 10:00, four AM your time and
Angie's time. I got straight in, nothing, sold
out, refresh, refresh, refresh, nothing.

(07:43):
Nothing, nothing. And you got tickets in the bag.
Isn't that crazy? All the way from New Jersey.
I know all the this is what got me is the fact that you managed
to get them in New Jersey magically.

(08:03):
Yeah, I'm 70 miles down the road, 60 miles from Brighton and
it's like couldn't get them. But anyway, yeah, I absolutely
chuffed A bits and if I could I would have flown across and I'd
be sat next to you now doing this because I would have flown
across and given you a big hug. And as I said, I'd much rather

(08:23):
be flying over there and lose mypassport in the process,
honestly. Yeah.
Yeah, I'll make the trip. Dave.
You don't have to come all the way here.
I don't mind going there. For the cake.
I would love to. So I'm it's going to be a bit of
a mad dash after work to get to London blah blah blah.

(08:44):
But I think it's going to be worth it, I really do, to hear
every single song from the albumbefore it's released.
Try to like absorb and like memorize every minute of it,
right? Yeah, this is it.
Don't know whether we're going to be allowed to film it.
I really don't. I'm not expecting to.

(09:05):
Screaming fans. It's going to be insane.
I don't know whether there's going to be merch there.
I don't know what's going to be there so.
Cool. And people were confused a
little bit because there are tworooms at the venue.
There's also another gig going on the same night, same time.
Yes, and there's plenty of tickets left for them if you
want to go and see them. That's funny.

(09:27):
Is it an Australian band or something like that?
I know they're another indie band, but they've got the main
stage downstairs. That was the question people
were asking. Is this the 800 person room or
the 250 room? Yeah, I believe it's the 250
room, judging by how quick thosetickets went.

(09:49):
Yeah. I don't know how many tickets
are sold, whether it's 200 and they've got 50 guests coming.
I really don't. But as far as we know, it's on
the 250 room. It's going to be amazing and.
I know that you'll be having some goodies in your pocket to

(10:12):
possibly give out to those in the.
Queue is correct. I will be having pocketfuls of
Nuggets. I take as many as I can because
I don't think I'm going to take a bag because of the, you know,
you're not really allowed to take bags in.
Right. You don't want to hold up
security and all that. Absolutely.
You need some Wilbur pants with lots of pockets.

(10:33):
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm I'm going to be wearing.
My, my I call them army trousers.
My cargo pants with all the pockets I'm going to need.
My microphones. You never know, you have to
bring a microphone well. This is it.
I mean, I'm hoping to grab a chat with a few people out in

(10:54):
the queue, so if you are about give me a shout, that's what I
look like. If you want to be on the
podcast, yeah. Absolutely.
I'm not sure about after the gigbecause we might have to leg it
to get a train. I'm sure it's going to be late.

(11:16):
Are we going to have another band on before support group?
Are they just going to come in and maybe do a few songs and
then right, This is it. We're now going into the album.
You know who? Knows yeah maybe they're going
to do a little chit chat beforehand I bet I hope people

(11:41):
are quiet enough in the crowd tolike just so you can hear it
that's what makes me crazy sometimes when everybody's
screaming while they're trying to talk so.
Yeah, but I'm really looking forward to it.
Oh my gosh, like I'd be pinchingmyself for you.
As I said to you, I felt like I was handing over my newborn baby

(12:01):
for adoption when I changed those tickets to you.
Yeah, I really don't know how grateful I was.
And after I know I said to you, right, I got to get on because I
was at work and I stopped. But I put the phone down, and
that sigh of relief, the weight of the shoulders.

(12:24):
The realization like this is really happening.
This is really happening. And it was like, oh.
No, I'm so happy for you. So it can't even be, can't even
be mad. No, Everything I can possibly do
and are allowed to do, I will send across pictures of March.

(12:45):
Pictures of whatever. And your eyes and ears for the
pod too, so that's valuable. Absolutely.
So it's not just us, Yeah. Absolutely, and I should be
taking my daughter. We've got to wait for her to
come home from school and then we're straight on, literally
straight on a train to London, get across London.

(13:06):
So cool. Grab some food from somewhere.
Yeah, the best. Yeah, absolutely.
Check back here on the next episode for for whatever we've
got. But yeah, keep an eye on Lovejoy
Nation over that evening becauselike I say, anything that I can
get pictures to match wise photos, anything I should be

(13:31):
sending them straight across andanything I send across should be
able to go straight out. Very cool.
I'm looking forward to it. And it's what if we have 10 days
away from as of today, right? That's right.
Date of recording. Yes, absolutely.
Yeah. All right.
And then we got a surprise announcement this past Friday

(13:53):
that I don't think anyone is expecting.
Someone on Reddit was like, yeah.
Absolutely. Wasn't that funny?
One person predicted it. I predict we're going to get a
new single tomorrow. This was on on a Thursday.
Yeah. And it was like, yeah, OK, on my
word. Then it happened, Yeah.
So we're getting a a new single this Friday, September 19th,

(14:15):
Common touch. And we heard a little snippet.
I think we have 28 seconds of ofthe song.
Sounds really good. Yeah.
Having said that pane display, we were all like Oh my God, wow
and. Then.
It started off totally differenthow we were expecting.
So the 28 second snippet, love it sounds really really good.

(14:41):
We've just got to wait for the rest.
Yeah, I'm curious for what little, as Angie always said,
and I guess always say crumbs, what crumbs will we get this
week leading up to Friday? What from little Tik toks or
videos or things? I can't believe it's so soon
after the last one. I honestly was expecting it to

(15:02):
perhaps drop after the album, but I guess I guess how they
want to play it. Another music video along with,
presumably. Yeah.
Well, didn't noise noisy act saythat there would be a third one?
Didn't? They give me a trilogy.
Yeah, Trilogy. Yeah.

(15:24):
So do we think that it'll becomeit'll be another prequel prequel
to Pain display or post ROB? I think it'll be post because it
does come along further on the album track.
I see, that's good detective work, the.
Next song after pain display I believe is White Shark Cafe then

(15:48):
Common Touch so surely it's got to be post.
OK, that's exciting too. Not just the song, but music
video to go with it. Yeah, I find it strange how
we've we've sat here and we've we're like love Rob.
Yeah. Great tune.

(16:08):
Oh my God. Pay and display.
Love it. Yeah.
And is this one going to be the same and?
Then like how many do we not know a thing about yet because
we know foxholes? Well, yes, yeah, we do know
foxholes, don't we? So we got what, 7?
Was it 11 on the album? I've avoided hearing perfect

(16:31):
blue so I don't know anything about it.
Oh yeah, so six I've saw I I watched Angie's footage once for
Perfect Blue, maybe twice. It's really hard at times to get
that feeling. Right.
From. A cell phone video from.

(16:51):
Exactly. Yeah.
But yeah, so I guess we've sort of heard half the album, we've
got half the. Album isn't that crazy?
Isn't that crazy? That's crazy.
We have 6 songs at least, right?Or let me think, we haven't
heard it all and foxholes might change, you know, things might
change from studio version to what was we we heard the
concert, but for the most part, apparently.

(17:13):
Foxholes did chat a little bit in the last concert.
Yeah. So, and This is why they've
taken off wasted summer because they want to clearly do it
better. But yeah, when when you ask that
question, we we've heard six songs.
Is it 6? So we've got Rob.

(17:37):
Paint, display, Foxholes, commontouch.
Perfect blue. Perfect blue.
So we've heard five. And there's 12 or. 1111 yeah.
So we've heard just under half the album.
That's amazing. Like I can't, it's like so
exciting for. It's so exciting for them.
And you could tell they love these songs.

(17:58):
You know, I was afraid at first that they'd be nervous about
presenting the these things because there's so much weight
behind them. But it's clear that they're so
confident and proud and happy about them that that kind of
floats away. And the response has been so
amazing so. Yes, but just blow me away.

(18:21):
How many we've actually heard now?
And how many are still left? That I think that's the most
exciting part. Well, then, let's get on with
the show. Angie and I recorded an
interview with a really amazing,brilliant man named Vinny Rebus
the other night, and I hope you enjoy listening as much as we
enjoyed recording it. He's a music industry

(18:41):
professional. We grilled him with all kinds of
questions regarding the music industry and ways that fans can
help support an indie artist that's sort of on their way up
and producing new music and releasing songs and how we can
really do the most we can for them other than just streaming.

(19:02):
So take a listen to that. Let us know what you think and
also check out his website, Cartney CARTN e.com.
It's a really robust website of online music industry lessons
from I think it's at 100 professionals and really

(19:25):
fascinating. Even if you're not in the
industry, you'll find it very interesting if you have an
interest in music and supportingbands that you love and
definitely it's worth checking out.
So we'll put the link in the description.
Today we're joined by Vinny Reba, an artist manager, artist

(19:46):
consultant, music industry consultant, founder and CEO of
Indy Connect, and a plethora of other things.
Is there anything you'd like to add or tell us about yourself?
Basically, I also own cartney.com, which is a
e-learning platform for the music industry, and I've just
gotten into documentary filming.Oh wow.

(20:10):
Amazing. That's like my favorite genre of
of things to watch when I'm homewith free time.
Excellent, very cool. Thank you for joining us.
We found you on LinkedIn for I found you with your article
Because I'm, I run a fan account.
I'm always looking for ways to encourage fans to support
Lovejoy and do everything we canfor them that they've had EPS

(20:34):
and single, but they've not had a debut full length album, but
they have one coming out October3rd.
And so there's so much writing on the as you well, well know.
And so I found your article, 30 ways to help support your
favorite indie artist. And I was like, Oh my God,
Angie, you got to see this, Dave.
What a goldmine. Oh my goodness, I was so

(20:57):
excited. Wonderful.
It's it's interesting how much fans don't actually realize what
artists have to go through and so they don't really know how to
support them. That's so true because I often
see, you know, we're pushing like, let's get it to 1,000,000
streams, you know, and they're like, I just want to listen how
I want to listen. It's not our job to worry about
that. It's like, it's not your job,

(21:18):
but do you love this band? Do you want them to be able to
stick around and tour and be here for a long?
Term. It benefits the band and it
benefits us. If you want the band to stick
around, you've got to help them out a little bit.
Yeah. And it doesn't take much, you
know, especially when you have that many fans.
But it does take, you know, a little bit of effort, a little
bit of conscious effort. Yeah, I think just to raise the

(21:39):
awareness, especially the audience is on the younger side,
most of which probably under 18 Even so.
And we all grew up with CDs and tapes and and radio being the
big things. But now it's a different world.
And I was actually interested onyour take since I know you, I
saw that you were on the other side of the curtain at one point

(22:00):
being a full time entertainer and then booking agent.
So you've been on, you know, thewhole spectrum.
Old, I mean, when you are you'reold, you get to do a lot of
stuff. It's we welcome.
We're glad you're here to to help us with that plethora of
knowledge you have. So, yeah, how is it different
and is it harder now because there's not so much physical
media that people are purchasingthere?

(22:21):
Are a lot of things that are different and, and a lot of
things that are harder and a lotof things that are easier.
So, you know, definitely the physical media is a major
challenge because that was the major revenue stream for record
labels especially and for artists.
And so, you know, when artists don't have that and it becomes
really hard for them to tour because everything is so

(22:42):
expensive, whether it's gas and the bus and hotel rooms and
eating out and everything. I mean, it just gets crazy.
And so artists really struggle. Even the biggest artists are
downsizing a lot of their, the size of their concerts because
they're just not drawing and, and it's just too expensive,
especially when you have, you know, those huge buses and, and

(23:03):
trucks and stuff like that. But any independent artist, you
know, they're, they're really struggling unless they draw a
lot. And mainly if they, you know, to
make it as a touring artist is going to be on merch.
I see it's it's always going to be on merch.
And do the bands pay a fee to the venues that host them?
How does that work? I've just, for those that don't

(23:26):
know, like how does that work when you sign up to play at
Webster Hall in New York City, do you have to a portion of the
sale? Some venues will do that.
I always try to avoid that if possible.
You know, it's, it's not, it's not rocket science to figure out
that every, every little bit of that margarine that you give
away to somebody else chips awayat what you have to be able to

(23:47):
survive on. And so, you know, I, I don't
like it when the record labels take a piece of, of the action
of the merch. I don't like it when the clubs
take a piece of the merch. I just don't think it's it's
fair to anybody and so I always avoid that.
Right. And then that's when you know,
T-shirts are now $50 instead of 25 like they used to be.

(24:10):
Exactly. If we're talking about the price
of a ticket and who gets what cut of that, let's say a ticket
to see a band cost $50, what percentage of that would you
think, give or take, would that band actually put in their
pocket once you figure out all the expenses?
Yeah, I mean, first of all, a lot of that depends on what the

(24:32):
agreement is with the venue because the venues usually take
a portion of the ticket sales unless the artist is what they
call 4 walling. So they're renting the room and
and they're going to sell tickets and then they're going
to pay for the rent out of the the ticket sales.
So it's really hard to say what percentage that would be.
But after all of the expenses and everything, if an artist you

(24:52):
know, and it depends also on howmuch the ticket sale, how much
the tickets are and how many tickets they're selling.
So, you know, you can have a venue that sees 500 and if they
can sell that 500 seats for $50,they're bringing in pretty good
money. But if it's a venue that seats
25 or 50 or 100, you're not bringing in as much money.

(25:13):
So the percentage is going to bedifferent.
But overall, if you know, if youput a tour together, it's
probably going to be 5 to 10% that is actually profit, if
that. Wow, that's not very much, is
it? No.
And we were talking, you know, Ihad brought up streaming versus
the physical. Often times with streaming, you

(25:34):
hear they make a fraction of a penny per stream.
So is it is streaming more aboutjust getting the songs out there
than money made from the stream?Streaming is pure marketing, is
pure marketing. And nowadays the push is to get
away from that. And if you've got a fan base,

(25:55):
you only release your music to your fans, or at least maybe for
the first two weeks or a month, you go to the fans 1st and let
them consume it. And especially if you have a fan
club, this is the way that most artists now are trying to
generate a lot of money because you figure if you've got, you
know, 1000 fans that are paying you $10 a month, then you've got

(26:18):
100. You've got $10,000 a month
coming in mailbox money. And you do special things for
them. And and that makes it really
easy then to tour or to record or do whatever you want.
You've got all of this money that that is Cumber.
Yeah. It, you know, it doesn't really
cost you much maybe to go into the studio and record a single

(26:40):
or something. But, you know, you can build a
loyal following. And I know artists that have,
you know, 5000 people paying them between 5:00 and $20.00 a
month. And these are independent
artists. So, you know, it's, it's the,
it's the way to go. If you've got a following, even
if you don't have a following, start building up.
You know, you got to work your fans through a process.

(27:02):
So you're going to get fans thatjust discover you.
They're going to check you out alittle bit.
They're going to then they're going to test you out.
They're going to go see your website or they're going to
check out your other social media.
And your goal is to move them upthe ladder to the point where
not they're not no longer just intrigued, they're actually
engaged with you. So you get them to sign up for
your mailing list and then you can start, you know, when

(27:24):
somebody signs up for your mailing list, which is the piece
that most artists miss completely.
When somebody signs up for your mailing list, they're basically
saying, I give you permission tomarket to me.
I want to know when you have gigs.
I want to know when you have newmerch.
I want to know when you have newmusic coming out.
And that makes a world of difference when you can capture

(27:44):
people that way. Because if it's five to seven
times easier to sell to an existing customer than to find a
new customer, that's just, you know, simple sales math.
So if you've got them on your mailing list, that's a huge
part, that's a commitment on their part.
Now you can move them into the fan base into, into your fan
club. And it's not a huge leap if they

(28:07):
like what you're giving them as,as a, as a, an e-mail
subscriber. And, and once you can do that
and you can even do the fan clubat, you know, $2.00 a month and
then have other tiers that move up.
But you know, your, your goal isto control everything.
You're, you want to control the music.
You don't want anyone else controlling that.

(28:28):
Your goal is to control the obviously the, the copyrights of
the songs. Your goal is to control the
data. You know, the biggest challenge
with all of the social networks,with Spotify, with anybody is it
doesn't matter if you have 5 million fans on there, 100
million fans in there. You haven't got a clue who one
of them is. You can't e-mail one of them
because they they own the data. And yeah, so if they own the

(28:51):
data, then you're just borrowingthat list.
You know, when, when TikTok was going away, so many people were
so scared because that was theirentire living.
If they had all that data, they had anyone, everybody on the
mailing list would have made a difference.
Hey, guys, We're going to go switch over to here.
So switching from streaming to radio, is radio still relevant

(29:13):
in today's world for independentartists?
It's, it's relevant, but it's very expensive.
It's very expensive to get a radio promoter.
Now somebody like Lovejoy, they've got a big following.
They've got a lot of people following them on Spotify.
So they would have an attractionto radio.
But the hardest thing for an artist is to reach all of those

(29:33):
radio stations. You can pay for services.
There are, there are services like Play NBE and their Play
Direct that'll reach out to these different radio stations
for you radio, unless you have aradio promoter and you're paying
them big money. And the reason they're big money
is because every one of them hastheir own target area that they
work with. So you'll have your New York guy

(29:55):
who works the, the main stationsthere and then you'll have the
guy that works Northern New Yorkor something.
And so you're paying a whole lotof people and to infiltrate, you
know, a radio station that's owned or is, is basically, you
know, pretty much owned, whetherit's physically or, or, or just
bought by the major labels, you're not going to have, you

(30:17):
know, a good shot at getting at the major stations.
So you're going to be on, I mean, you're yeah, you I think
you're going to know where you're going.
College stations are a great, are a great Ave. to go.
Unfortunately, again, the challenge with college stations
is that the students are usuallythe ones that do the programming
and they change every year. So every year you're starting

(30:40):
from scratch or every two years to build relationships.
Everything in this in this fieldis relationships.
It's relationships with the radio stations, the programmers,
it's relationships with the venues, it's relationship with
booking agents, it's relationships that your manager
has. It's all relationships because
there are so many people flooding the market every single

(31:02):
day with content and, and a lot of it good.
Not a huge percentage, but a lotof it is good that you have to
do something that makes you stand out from everybody else.
What about fans, the good old, you know, calling into the radio
station or emailing them or texting them?
Is that still effective? That's very effective.

(31:23):
I mean, they want to please their their audiences and, and
if it's an appropriate radio station, yes, fans can
definitely help in that kind of a campaign.
And it can help by finding out who's the programmer at their
local college and passed that information on.
So basically, I mean, it used tobe a street team, artists would
put a street team together and they would put out posters and

(31:45):
stuff like that. And, and sometimes that still
works. But most people are sticking
with digital right now. But yes, you know, mobilizing
your fans to help you out in allthese different areas, to tell
you about a, a venue that you should be playing to introduce
you to a new owner or to introduce you to somebody they
know that works at a radio station or somebody that works

(32:09):
at the local festival or fair orsomething like that.
All those kind of things make a world of difference.
When, when, Because right now, you know, unless you have a
record label and you're paying amarketing company and you're,
you're, you're paying a publicist and everything, you
don't have the money to reach everybody.
So you're doing it on your own. It's coming out of your time,
it's coming out of your pocket and everything.

(32:31):
And, and that makes it very difficult.
So if you've got the fans on your side and they're helping
you to get the contacts and the resources and and create the
demand for you, you know, it's the same thing with, you know,
having enough fans calling a festival saying that we want
these guys to play. Yeah, Lovejoy has said we'll,
we'll play where the listeners are.

(32:53):
So they just need to know and see where the listeners are.
But they are just recently signed with Warner Record
because they're with Warner Record.
Does that, I'd imagine, help with airplay.
I, I had heard something about an ad.
Tomorrow's supposed to be the addate for radio stations.
It's a new term I've just learned for their newest song,

(33:16):
pay and display. So how does that work?
Ad dates and new song. That's the official day.
They can tell the radio stationsthis song will be available on
this day. Do not play it before this day.
So that's your ad date. That's the date today.
Add it to their playlists now, alot of songs take a long time.
They take creating demand and everything for them to work

(33:38):
their way up in the radio stations playlist.
I mean their songs that take months to work their way up.
So it's not like it happens today and it gets on every radio
station. The difference is that when
you're signed with somebody likeWarner, they have the
relationships with the radio stations.
So they can say they have leverage.
They can say we're not going to let you play this artist unless

(34:00):
you play our new artist. We're not going to let you have
fascinating. We're not going to have, we're
not going to let you have our this artist play your concert,
your local concert, unless you have this artist open for them.
So there's a little politics going on there.
It's all politics, so. They've already been playing the
song on a lot of stations. I've been tracking it on sound
charts. So, so that's exciting that even

(34:23):
before that, that date, it's already been playing, I think
over 100 since August 22nd when it was released.
So and Alt Nation. What do you do you have an
opinion on Alt Nation or SiriusXM and their value?
Because they had put them on their Advanced Placement list,
but then they don't play. They haven't played the song
yet. Maybe they won't till tomorrow,

(34:43):
I don't know. Probably not until tomorrow, but
yeah, I mean, you want to be on,especially on Sirius FM.
You, you, you absolutely want tobe on there.
XM sorry if you can get on there, because there are ways to
to do that and and a lot of it'srelationships, you know, working
with somebody who has a relationship.
The bottom line, everything is working with somebody who has a
relationship. You want to get in magazines,

(35:04):
you want to get something written out with you.
You want a publicist who has relationships.
You want to get on Radio SiriusXM, any of those.
You need people who have. Interviews, I would imagine
would be valuable if they could do a little short interviews,
you know, like a press junket, sure.
Absolutely, absolutely. And and that a lot of that the
band can do, you know, if the band is willing to do an

(35:27):
interview or if they're going tobe coming to town, they should
go into the studio, you know, offer to do an in house
interview. That makes a world of difference
because you're building relationships.
This industry is not about how many people you know, it's about
who trusts you. That's really.
It's about who trusts you enoughto open the door for you.

(35:48):
So you can have, you know, you can have the whole world can
know about you, but you may not get that one gig because nobody
actually trusted you enough to give you that call.
And it's the same thing even on a smaller scale or much smaller
scale, where you're trying to dosomething and there's
opportunities and you know, you're a good fit, but you can't
get your foot in the door. You don't have the clout.

(36:09):
But if, if somebody trusts you enough to say, oh, you need to
call this this band and then they open the door for you, then
you're going to get in because it, it's all relationships.
So either you have the relationship, your team has a
relationship, you know, or your fans have the relationship.
What's good about Lovejoy? They were sort of like a quiet

(36:30):
time, a dry spell, so to speak, where they lost some momentum.
But they have awesome things under their belt, like they
received the MTVUK Push Award atthe beginning of 2024 and they
played Reading leads Lollapalooza.
They headlined Summerfest this year at their stage at
Summerfest. So I guess I would imagine those

(36:52):
things, their resume that they've built up also help.
Yeah, they're reaching, They're reaching more people.
They've got much better content to put online when you can show
something from Lollapalooza and stuff like that.
I was, I was looking at some of their videos and stuff and, and
it gives you credibility. It gives you huge credibility.
But there's one thing I want to mention that is important for

(37:14):
the band to know. Well, actually, it was actually
one of your questions. What does the what kind of music
do the fans want? Things have changed drastically
with social media being the mainway that people discover music.
And they don't discover the music first.
They will hear the music first, then they want to know more

(37:39):
about the artist. They want to know if they have
something in common with them because the fans are getting
bombarded, just like Spotify's getting bombarded and the fans
are getting bombarded with all kinds of content.
So that's why the algorithms tryto pinpoint somebody that you're
going to have something in common with that somebody.

(37:59):
You like this artist and so you'll like this artist, but
they want to know if they have something in common with you and
then they will listen deeper. So, So what, what artists need
to do is they need to know theirfans well enough to know what to
write about, what to say in an interview, what to, I mean, all

(38:21):
of the things, all of the touch points, you know, you're
building a brand. And I look at all of the
different touch points every time that the name or the image
or the music intersects with a fan.
What does that look like? And how is the fan going to
react to that? And so as long as you're
consistent with that and you're doing it long enough and you're

(38:42):
reaching people, you will, you will weed out the ones that
don't like you. And there's nothing wrong with
that because you don't want themnecessarily anyway.
You will. You will build up that fan base
that is very, very, you know, loyal.
Loyal to you. Yeah.
I was going to say rabid fans, but it didn't.
Sound. Oh yeah, they have that too.
They were rabid. That just didn't work.

(39:04):
No, I mean it, it's, it's reallyimportant for for the artist to
understand that is the way that fans connect with you.
And that's what they're looking for.
They're looking for an emotionalconnection.
I mean, Ed Sheeran, somebody dida a cover of one of his songs.
I forget which one it was and and she did a such a great job
on it that he actually invited her to come to to meet him and

(39:27):
they, you know, he sat in the living room and just sent
Samsung. That's cute.
That's what you look for, looking for that kind of
relationship, and every fan was envious of it, but every fan
watched it every single time. Every one of those videos went
viral. Oh, you know what we for the
first time ever, they're offering on this tour VIP
packages, which is like among humongous.

(39:51):
Yes, they are. Yeah, I'm sure.
I'm sure the the label has a lotto do with that because the
label likes that. And what the label is doing is
bringing in those relationships that the artists need.
They're bringing in like this and booking agents and they're
bringing in all the relationships to meet the band.
The meet and greet is the biggest to draw of the package

(40:11):
and another way to bring in someextra money.
It's not, you know, the. The extras they're throwing in
aren't pricey, but they're exciting and everybody wants
them. That's it.
You got to give the fans what they want.
Yeah. And it's interesting.
I've been tracking their ticket sales, not by numbers, but just
what I can see, like can I stillget a ticket?

(40:32):
And I would say 2/3 of their VIPtickets for their tour are sold
out. So there was clearly a big
demand for that, which is nice to see.
But we were talking about fans alittle earlier on, how fans can
help the band by making requestson radio with a band the size of

(40:52):
Lovejoy, who isn't, you know, tiny.
They're obviously bigger now, but they're not huge huge
either. And they're really just now
trying for their big break with their first debut album.
Are there any other ways of supporting a band of this size
that you would suggest versus somebody who is really just

(41:13):
starting out from the ground up?Well, given given the age group
that that they have, I would sayone of the biggest things they
can do is to use their music online, use their music in their
videos. So create a video with Lovejoy's
music in it, because that triggers the algorithm that
makes them move up the the ladder and preference and more

(41:35):
for you pages and stuff like that.
So that's a real big part of it.If there is, if there are any
podcasts that they should be guests on, if the fans have know
of that, no matter how big or how small it is, it's that's a
great way to, to help the band because again, it's, it's
reaching listeners that they might not normally listen, they

(41:56):
might not normally hear them. I mean, I'm 70 years old.
I like their music. So it's not just appealing to 13
year olds or 15 year olds, you know, I mean, they've got to
reach everybody. Yeah, no, it's not just
teenagers, as Leslie and I can attest.
To We can thank our teenagers for introducing them to us.
I know, Leslie. Will agree with me is her and I

(42:17):
and some other people in the fanbase might be really pumped up
or like, OK, let's do this, let's support them.
Let's get out there and do all the things.
Let's, you know, make a bunch ofTik Toks and let's call these
radio stations. Sometimes it's hard to get
people motivated. Take it for granted that it's
always just going to be there and.
But we know how the crucial thistime is.

(42:37):
We're the band, so it's, yeah, we just want the easier it is
and the more fun it is. And I guess easy is the big easy
express how valuable it is. So they feel like it's they're
really doing something, I think.It's important to to realize the
difference between radio and social media.
With radio, it's repeat. The songs are repeated over and

(43:00):
over and over again until you have no choice but to get them
into your brain. They, you know, they just weave
their way into your into the fabric of your brain and, and
next thing you know, you like them.
But but with social media, people hear 3 seconds of a song
and they scroll 3 seconds. You know, they watch 3 seconds
of a video and they scroll. So it takes a lot of

(43:21):
impressions. Somebody has to hear that song a
lot of times before they actually before it actually
triggers. So they usually say that in
sales or in marketing, it takes 7 to 20 impressions.
So to see a commercial on TV 7 to 20 times before the audience
actually, you know, it makes an imprint in their brain and they

(43:43):
actually know what they're talking about.
And so you don't have that opportunity on TikTok unless
you're creating a whole bunch ofcontent.
If you're not the one creating that much content, the fans have
to make that up. The fans can do that.
They can keep you on people's For You pages and get that song
heard over and over and over again because it's played in all

(44:06):
these different videos. And we've tried to Angie's had a
good idea of pushing It doesn't have to be that clever or
creative. And if you don't want to show
your faith, it could be your dogrunning around because funny
animal pet videos are popular, that kind of thing.
Something's really unrelated. Yeah, pick something out of the
lyric that you can depict. It doesn't matter.
But they, the audience, the the viewers have to hear it over and

(44:32):
over and over again for it to stick, for them to start to, for
them to even stop and say, oh, who is that?
We feel this weight of the pressure of this album.
Obviously not as much as they do, but I really do take, we
really do take it on upon ourselves because we have a
captive audience and yeah, we want to utilize them.
And I like you were mentioning there used to be St. teams to

(44:55):
hang Flyers and things. We've sort of Angie's done that
for sure, and we've had other fans do that where they'd hang
Flyers with the QR code or the Spotify link, make stickers and
stick them around in cities. Yeah, every little bit helps
because it's it's those touch points.
Every one of those is a touch point.
And you need enough touch pointsfor somebody to say, oh, what's

(45:16):
that song? Or who's this Lovejoy that I see
everywhere? I haven't heard any of their
music, but I see their name everywhere.
I see their poster, you know, why are so many people lined up
in front of the club? Why are, I mean, I mean, all,
all of these different things, every one of them.
Why are they getting all this press?
You know, why did they just get a bump in their Spotify?
Everything, all those touch points register in somebody's

(45:39):
mind that this is somebody I need to pay more attention to.
So St. teams still still have a,they still have a value.
Have a huge value. Without them, who's going to you
know, I mean, there's nothing. There's nothing there.
And the hard part is keeping. The hard part is keeping them.
If you're not, if you're not in front of them all the time,
they're going to go find somebody who is because that's

(46:00):
what they crave. And we need to find another
artist who's in front of them, another artist who will get on
Zoom once a month for you to pay$5 a month.
But you know, somebody who will get on Zoom and they can
actually meet you, you know, meet you.
That's because that's what they crave.
When you were talking about fan clubs run by the bands

(46:21):
themselves, I've seen a ton obviously, because I that's all
I search up all the time. Are all these anything fans, fan
club, fan everything. There's tons of apps now coming
out. Is there anything you've seen
that you like what they're doingor you think the old school like
emails and that sort of content?Or do you see things going like

(46:42):
that actually working? And do bands need their own app
that's like the Lovejoy fan app or is it these third party ones?
Is that I don't know if you haveany opinion on that or if you
have experience with any of that.
It depends on on how dedicated your fans are.
I mean, yeah, you're right. There's a whole bunch of apps
out there. It all started, you know, with

(47:04):
with Patreon being the biggest one.
Well, it started way back. Like Pledge Music was one that
was, you know, 1520 years ago. That was the first real artist
fan club site. So then, you know, Patreon, you
know, has taken over for a lot of that.
But Patreon is very limited as to what it does.
It works and a lot of people do well on that.

(47:25):
A lot of people just make, you know, an extra three, $400.00 a
month on there. But all they're, you know, doing
is posting a little bit of extracontent and, and they're getting
paid for it. So it's, it's, it's buying their
guitar strings and stuff like that.
You know, I mean, you can look at it from a lot of different
perspectives, but it could be your main income that allows you
to go and play a gig that you want to play, but they don't

(47:47):
have the money to pay you. You can, you can go do a
festival or something like that.Instead of having to go over
here where you're going to make $2500 tonight.
You can go to a festival for free because you know, you're
going to be in front of bigger audience and you've got money
coming in mailbox money. As far as what works, I would
look at the artists that are most successful at that.
Taylor Swift being, you know, the ultimate in building the

(48:08):
Swifties and how she how she relates, how everything that she
does relates directly to her, her fans is done for her fans.
And she serves them in ways thatno other artist has, and
therefore that she's got the most loyal fan base.
And and it's not done necessarily with an app.
I feel like the label, I think we're already seeing the

(48:29):
positive effects of it. For example, sometimes Leslie
and I will just Google, you know, just Lovejoy or the name
of their new song pay and display and we'll see all these
little random articles. But you can tell that they were
all taken from what appears to be a press release.
So and that's something that we've never seen before.
So I really think that Warner is.

(48:52):
We're starting to see the. It's starting to see the.
Yeah, yes, the fruits of the labor, Yeah, yes.
I think, I, I think that they'regoing to invest a little bit,
which which is nice to see and Imean.
Nice. They're just well deserved.
Yeah, I mean, these guys might have, you know, almost a million
listeners on Spotify, but they're still, they're still
relatively small, having played all these large festivals and

(49:16):
whatnot, but. Still the early stages.
Of their career, yeah, yeah, it's they're really just
starting to breakthrough here, so it's nice to see those things
happening. Yeah, 1,000,000 listeners is
cool, but you like I had one artist that I was managing and
we did a a four month PR campaign for an EP that he was

(49:39):
coming out. So every two weeks we was
putting out a new single and then we released the EP and we
got him from 3000 monthly listeners to 150,000 monthly
listeners in that four months. And then the campaign ended and
he didn't have anything new to release And literally within two

(50:01):
months he was down to about 10,000 and it's dwindled it from
there. So, you know, the monthly
listeners is great. It, it means that you're going
to make some income. They're going to make maybe
$3000 off of 1,000,000 streams. You know, I mean, it's just,
it's not, it's not a ton and, and it's got to be kept up.

(50:24):
You know, people have to want tokeep listening.
Well, if it good stuff. I mean a lot.
I've looked at it. I'm working this documentary
with a lot of classic country artists from the Sixties, 70s
and 80s who have a million listeners.
OK. It's amazing because they're not
in, you know, they're just theirmusic.

(50:45):
Was that popular? That's great.
I just Speaking of the older times or even for me and Angie
music videos, it makes me crazy because they've lovejoys clearly
spent a lot of time and money and effort on their music videos
for this album and there's like mini movies and actually they're
all going to connect into a trilogy.

(51:06):
It's really neat. But it's so disappointing that
MTV feel like I'm a curmudgeon here, but it's so disappointing
MTV doesn't show music videos anymore.
And I know that maybe it's because consumers consume on
YouTube now more, but don't do you think that it would be of,
like, a huge value to artists ifthere were a channel again that

(51:27):
just played where you could justkeep your TV on and have music
videos playing all day And then you'd sort of like, by osmosis
and repetition, observe new artists in that way, Yeah.
A lot of the networks have that.I mean, on my Roku, I've got
probably 30 different channels that I can just watch videos
from different genres. So, so they they definitely have

(51:48):
them. OK, I didn't know that.
I just thought MTV, you know, everybody always says what
happened. It used to be music, television.
Now it's silly show and they theVMAs, but they don't show
videos. It's just so strange, Yeah.
No, I I didn't. I didn't know that either.
We have to promote that and workand publicize that.
And no kidding. As far as fan driven promotion

(52:11):
that fans put together themselves without any outside
help from the band, are there any big no no's when it comes to
putting something like that together?
Is there anything we should not be doing?
Well, obviously the biggest thing is infringing on their
copyrights. Yeah, sure.

(52:35):
That and then saying anything that puts them down or puts them
in a bad light, even if you don't mean to do it.
You know, anything like that would would be a challenge.
Most of what you're going to see, you know, if you repost
stuff that's online, then it's already online and you won't
have a problem with that. Most, most of the stuff you
won't have a problem with what you cannot do.
Some of the things you can't do is like use their image to

(52:58):
market something else, like to market your services, you know,
might be able to, you'd have to get permission from them to, to
do that. But it's, but it's pretty much
staying away from the copyright infringement things that they
don't want out there, things that you know a photographer
took and you don't have permission to, to, to put to

(53:21):
post it. And trust me, they will come
after you. It's interesting that you talk
about posting things that might put them in a disparaging light,
because I think sometimes there's a lot of fans that post
things and maybe they're trying to be funny, but they don't
think about what they're postingand the way that it could be
interpreted there. Is, I mean, it's the same thing

(53:42):
with all the comments that you get and everything.
Those negative comics make a difference.
They make a difference in the algorithms.
They make a difference in the injust the whole demeanor that the
whole bands, you know, the way they feel about themselves.
That's a good question actually.With regard to negative
comments, do you feel it's best to ignore, respond, delete,

(54:06):
block? Like what do you?
How's the best way to handle that?
Ignore or delete. Do not respond.
You don't want to give them the attention.
That's all they're looking for. They want somebody, want to get
somebody riled. Yeah.
So don't take the bait, OK? Yep, don't take the bait.
Yeah. Sometimes, yeah, they'll move on
to somebody else. We try to keep our advice fan

(54:27):
focused, but sometimes it's likeyou want to like grab them, do
VIP packages. Oh good, you did it so.
If the fans can ask for the stuff that they want, you give
them a way to ask for it, or youdo a survey and then you pass
that on to the band, then maybe the band will get the idea, but
the label will also help them guide them on what the best

(54:48):
practices are. And I never thought about that,
Leslie. I bet there has to be somebody
from the label that's on the Reddit keeping an eye on and
sneaking. People are saying they're.
Tracking the social media, they're tracking everything.
They're tracking every time you use one of the hashtag Lovejoy
or hashtag one of the band members every time, you know,
they're, they're using services like social blade and stuff

(55:11):
that, you know, will track everything and, and the
engagement by the hour, whether it goes up and goes down.
You know, we made this announcement.
He was on this TV show. Did it, did it bump, you know,
give us a spike in the social media.
I mean, they they they manage all of that.
And so, yeah, anything that you can do to get the attention of

(55:32):
somebody on the team makes a world of difference.
And instead of talking directly to the band, you might be
talking directly to the manager who's telling the band what to
do. Leslie, you have a question on
here that I think is really great.
What are some common misconceptions about how artists
earn a living or define their success?
There's a lot of people that think if you're able to go
overseas and do a tour, quote, UN quote, a world tour, that

(55:55):
you're rich and you've got all this money to throw around.
And we know that's not necessarily the case.
What are some common misconceptions about how artists
actually make their bread and butter?
Well, you're pretty much hittingon it.
You know, touring is a very, very expensive endeavor.
And a lot of times it takes likea label to give you an advance

(56:16):
to, you know, tour support to beable to do that.
Sponsors, they have to go and get sponsors to be able to
afford to tour because you can'tdo it on your own.
You can't you just can't pay those kind of bills and, and
makes enough money at the venues, especially if you're not
always the the headliner and youknow, you're doing a lot of
opening acts and everything. You're making very little money.

(56:38):
You're making money off of your merch.
That's basically the the big thing that you're doing.
Just because they have a millionfollowers on Spotify, that is
not paying a whole lot of bills.It's definitely not paying.
It's not going to pay for enoughfor them to record another
album. It's just, it's frustrating, but
it's, it's the truth. Artists, artists make their
money off of merch and especially if they control the

(57:00):
merch. So depending on the record label
deal, they may have to pay a percentage of the merch to the
record label if they're part of a 360 deal.
But, you know, if the artists can control the merch and the
artists can control the fan clubso that they're the ones that
are collecting the e-mail addresses and they are the ones
that are servicing the fans, then then their income is solid.

(57:24):
But outside of that, everything else is vulnerable.
And what about, you know, buyingmusic?
I know when a single comes out or a single is about to come
out, this is something I just thought of.
That's like every time they announce a single's going to
come out this day or an album's coming out this day, we say pre
save. That means a lot to the people
in the industry to see pre savesor pre-orders.

(57:44):
And then we encourage them to buy the songs and download the
songs. I would imagine that's valuable
and I know we just found a resource you probably are
familiar already, station head, a place where you can have
listening parties and it's connected to your Spotify.
So there's no copyright issues and the participants can
actually buy and download the songs while they're in the

(58:05):
stream and communicate contact, you know, communicating with
you. So.
Everything is engagement, engaged with your fans and and
on the fan side, engage with theband because every time, every
time there's an engagement, it'stracked.
So if you pre save a song, then that tells Spotify when this

(58:25):
song comes out, when it's the official release date, the ad
date. We need to add that to this
playlist and this playlist and this playlist because it's
already this popular. So their algorithms are looking
at that. If there's nobody pre saving it,
they're saying, well, you know, we'll see what happens, see if
it goes viral somehow. But they don't, they're not

(58:46):
proactive in doing that. And Spotify will get on your
your side. They want you to sell more, they
make more money. They want people.
When bands have a deal with Spotify where I had this with
that cheer and I had a Green Dayand I think other little bands
where I'll get an e-mail from Spotify saying because you're a
fan of Green Day, you can get this limited edition T-shirt

(59:10):
only through, you know, this link.
Thank you for your support. Thank you from Green Day or
whatever it is. I wish I would love to see them
do something like that. That's where that's where the
relationship from the label comes.
In and the download and like I remember Angie, you saying not
just buying the song but downloading it.

(59:30):
Is that does that make a difference if someone buys a
song and then forgets to download it because they usually
stream it or is there more valuein playing the thought song?
Like how does that? That's a good question.
I don't really know. I mean, not that many people are
buying the song anymore, unfortunately.
So that's not a huge income for the artist, but you know, they

(59:52):
are definitely obviously buying vinyl.
What's interesting is that I don't know what the number is it
something like 85% of the vinyl this bought has never played.
It's just kept as a collector's item.
And Angie? Sounds about right.
And so, you know, it's, you needto, you need to do everything as

(01:00:13):
a fan, you need to do everythingyou can to trigger those
algorithms. And that means watching YouTube
videos. It means using their, their song
in your video. It means sharing and reposting,
sharing and reposting everything.
All of those things trigger Spotify or TikTok or Instagram

(01:00:33):
to say, oh, we need to push thismore because it's popular.
You've. Given us like a wealth of
information. I can't wait to watch this back
and. Take note, this is amazing.
I feel like I could talk to you forever.
You're so knowledgeable. And I have to say, I was looking
at your website the other night,briefly looking through the
online program. And obviously I have nothing to

(01:00:54):
do with the music industry, but it all looked so fascinating
that I wanted to like go throughit myself just to learn about
everything you can. You can get a two months, two
week, you know, free trial. There's a lot of good
information from from people on there who talk about their fan
clubs and talk about, you know, and, and talk about, you know,

(01:01:14):
switching gears and how they hadto try to move their fans from
loving them for this to loving them for that.
I manage an artist with 25,000 followers.
Most of it she built because she's known for her comedy
skits. But she is a singer, a great
singer and a great songwriter and an actress.
And so we're working really hardto get everybody to know about

(01:01:36):
that too. And not everybody's going to
love her music. So we're going to lose some
people because it's not all comedy.
She's still doing the comedy, but but you know, it's a
balancing act and everything. So if an artist wants to change
a little bit of direction, change a band member, it doesn't
matter. Add a band member, everything is
going to affect how people perceive it.
Is it still the same as it was? Well, I thank you.

(01:01:58):
I thank you for your time and. Absolutely, my pleasure.
Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
You bet. All right.
Take. Take.
Care. Thanks so much.
Thank you all for listening today.
I hope you enjoyed this interview.
Please leave us some words in the comments, send us an e-mail,
go to our website lvjynation.comanytime and we'd love to hear

(01:02:22):
your thoughts and if you have ideas for other interviews,
other guests we could have on the show.
Until next time, until we hear from next time, when we hear
from Dave about the gig, take care and keep streaming.
See you later. Bye bye.