February 25, 2025 • 49 mins
Abby and Alan discuss the vast history of space horror in film and literature.
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Sources
- A New Yorker article by Adam Gopnik: The War Inside H.G. Wells from 2021
- New York Times Article by Mekado Murphy: How ‘Alien’ Spawned So Many Others from 2017
- ArtNet.com article by Tim Brinkhof: As Seen on ‘Alien’: H.R. Giger’s Biomorphic Nightmare
- War of the Worlds Radio Broadcast transcripts by HG Wells.
New Yorker Article by Dan Chiasson from 2018: “2001: A Space Odyssey”: What It Means, and How It Was Made
PublicBooks.com article by Eleanor Johnson: Speaking the Monster: Ecofeminism in “Alien” and “Aliens”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello everyone, Welcome back to another episode
of the Lunatics Radio Hourpodcast.
I am Abby Brinker sitting herewith Alan Kudan.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And today we are talking about the history of
space horror.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That is anything bad that happens in space, or from
space, or from, I mean space iseverywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's what I have always said.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so this is literally Bad Stuff the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
There you go.
So let's talk about what spacehorror is right off the bat,
because it can be a littletricky to define.
It's a subgenre of horror,obviously, and also, I would say
, in some cases, a subgenre ofscience fiction, depending on
how you want to play it.
But what we're really referringto, like Alan alluded to, is
horror films that are either setin space whether that's on
(01:07):
spacecraft, space stations or ondifferent planets or horror
films that are set on Earth, butthe evil villain is something
from space.
So I want to just say thehorror part of this is what
really sets this subgenre asidefrom all space science fiction
in general.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right, so it's either takes place off planet, sure,
or something off planet is onearth yes yeah, very easy, very
simple yeah or something to dowith the space-time continuum,
because that happens far toooften.
It gets all.
All you know wonky hell.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
We watch sphere well, more to come.
On sphere.
I have a lot of thoughts, notvery pleasant ones.
All right, let's get intotoday's sources.
We have a new yorker article byadam gopnik the war inside hg
wells from 2021.
A new york times article byMikado Murphy how Aliens Spawned
so Many Others, from 2017, anArtnetcom article by Tim
(02:10):
Brinkhoff as Seen on Alien HRGeiger's Biomorphic Nightmare
the War of the World's RadioBroadcast Transcripts.
A New Yorker article by DanChassian from 2018, 2001 A Space
Odyssey what it Means and howit Was Made.
And a publicbookscom article byEleanor Johnson Speaking the
Monster Ecofeminism and Alienand Aliens.
(02:33):
And, as always, we link oursources in the description of
this podcast so you can followalong and check them out.
From what I could find out, Ibelieve that space horror
started in the late 1800s withthe Star by HG Wells, which was
a story that was released in1897.
The Star is about the impendingfear of a planet that is
(02:54):
suddenly hurtling towards Earth,which is a situation we
actually find ourselves in today.
What there's like an asteroidor a meteor or whatever that's
gonna hit Earth in like 2032, orsomething?
There's like a 3% chance, whichwhatever that's going to hit
Earth in like 2032 or something.
There's like a 3% chance whichis like the highest it's ever
been.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Who knows where the statistic is now.
I just saw some expert talkingabout this.
Sorry, there was air quoteswhen I said expert.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
A Reddit post, I presume.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
No, actually this was on broadcast news and the
percentage had gone from 1% to2%.
This makes it the moststatistically relevant
astronomical doomsday event inrecorded history.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Rock and roll, talk about timely topics.
So again, the star is a shortstory about a planet that is
hurtling towards Earth right andin a very poetic way.
I think the short story startson New Year's Day and it has
this very cool you can find itonline and read it.
I'll release it on Patreon toour followers there, but it has
(03:56):
this really interesting lensalmost of cosmic horror and
themes of this like very crueluniverse right.
That I feel like set the scenein some ways for later space
horror.
It's kind of like there's tonsof different versions of space
horror that we're going to talkabout today thematically, but
one of those themes is manversus like instead of monster
(04:17):
or whatever, like vastness ofspace or just the science of
space, and I think this is anexample of that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It reminds me of a far more modern film called
Moonfall.
We're going to be prettyrespectful about spoilers.
However, this is a terriblemovie, so if you don't want
spoilers, skip ahead 30 seconds,otherwise here it comes.
So Moonfall is about the moonfalling to Earth, right, and so
you know, humanity is preparingall these things and then, of
(04:49):
course, they do a bunch ofshenanigans to divert the moon
at the last minute.
But the people that were on themoon diverting it, you know it
comes so close to Earth thatthey are able to jump from the
moon to Earth and then do like alittle invert gravity thing.
It's like 20 feet, it misses by, like you know, a coat of paint
(05:10):
, and then they land on Earthand the moon sails by.
I can only imagine that this isthe exact plot of the star.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Isn't it also the plot of Melancholia?
Have you seen that movie?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
What's that.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's that Lars von Trier movie with Kristen Dunst,
where there's like two sistersand there's just this planet
that's slowly moving and it'sabout the way that the different
way that the sisters arereacting.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Huh, nope, that sounds way better.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Perhaps I haven't seen it so I cannot say, but
let's read a brief passage fromthe end of the Star.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So it was that, presently to the European
watchers, star and sun roseclose upon each other, drove
headlong for a space and thenslower and at last came to rest.
Star and sun merged into oneglare of flame at the zenith of
the sky.
The moon no longer eclipsed thestar, but was lost to sight in
(06:01):
the brilliance of the sky.
And though those who were stillalive regarded it, for the most
part, with that dull stupiditythat hunger, fatigue, heat and
despair engender, there werestill men who could perceive the
meaning of these signs.
Star and earth had been attheir nearest, had swung about
(06:21):
one another, and the star hadpassed Already.
It was receding swifter andswifter in the last stage of its
headlong journey downward intothe sun.
And then the clouds gathered,blotting out the vision of the
sky.
The thunder and lightning wove agarment around the world.
All over the earth was adownpour of rain as men had
(06:42):
never before seen, and where thevolcanoes flared red against
the cloud canopy, theredescended torrents of mud
Everywhere.
The waters were pouring off theland, leaving mud-stilted ruins
and the earth littered like astorm-worn beach, with all that
had floated and the dead bodiesof the men and brutes, its
(07:03):
children.
For days, the water steamed offthe land, sweeping away soil
and trees and houses in the wayand piling huge dikes and
scooping out titanic gulliesover the countryside.
Those were the days of darknessthat followed the star and the
heat All through them, and formany weeks and months the
(07:23):
earthquakes continued, but thestar had passed and men, hunger
driven and gathering courageonly slowly I thought that was a
haunting apocalyptic.
Look at this sort of man versusspace on one hand, this seemed
like any bit of modern dayscience fiction.
Sure they're talking about thegeologic ramifications of a
(07:44):
planetary body coming too closeto Earth.
You know things boiling offfamine, like all these things.
It was like completely fuck upthe ecosystem Right, While
simultaneously it had the syntaxand diction of the 1800s and it
can fuck right off becausethat's so hard to read.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You read it very, very well.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
After lots of takes and lots of editing.
Thank you, Abby.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Another early short story that kicked off the space
horror genre was also written byHG Wells.
Surprise, surprise the storythe Crystal Egg was also
published in 1897.
Highly unique, the Crystal Eggtells the story of a shop owner
who finds a crystal egg thatactually allows a user to see
(08:24):
what's happening on Mars.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Are there things happening on Mars?
I haven't read it, but Iimagine, if you look at it, you
just see dust.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
You're going to tell us what's happening on Mars, my
friend, but before we do that,there's something about the
crystal egg that reminds me somuch of Little Shop of Horrors.
What?
Because the whole premise ofLittle Shop is that he finds he
buys this like highly uniqueplant which is really like an
alien plant and it's just likethe idea of like a shop owner
(08:54):
finding this like magical itemand having it cause like a
little bit of localized chaos,you know.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So it's the plot of Gremlins.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh, that chaos becomes less localized, yeah
sure I mean, I'm sorry, justsomething that lets you see the
ongoings of mars yeah of a deadplanet it's not so dead in this
short story, oh let's find outwill you, uh, do us the honor
alan of quoting from one of mrcave's visions within the
(09:22):
crystal egg the body.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Body was small but fitted with two bunches of
prehensile organs like longtentacles, immediately under the
mouth.
Incredible as it appeared to MrWace, the persuasion at last
became irresistible that it wasthese creatures which owned the
great quasi-human buildings andmagnificent garden that made the
(09:44):
broad valley so splendid.
And Mr Cave perceived that thebuildings, with other
peculiarities, had no doors andthat the great circular windows
which opened freely gave thecreatures egress and entrance.
They would alight upon theirtentacles, fold their wings to a
smallness almost rod-like andhop into the interior.
(10:06):
But among them was a multitudeof smaller winged creatures like
great dragonflies and moths andflying beetles, and across the
greensward, brilliantly coloredgigantic ground, beetles crawled
lazily to and fro.
Moreover, on the causeways andterraces, large-headed creatures
, similar to the greater wingedflies but wingless, were visible
(10:29):
, hopping busily upon theirhand-like tangle of tentacles.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
See, there's a lot going on in Mars.
Yeah, I'm skeptical.
Well, it's science fiction,it's space horror, it's fair.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
So what he?
So?
He uses his little voyeurcrystal to skeeve on these bugs.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
You heard it here.
First I mean read the story.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Maybe I will, it's not that long.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I think you'd like it .
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know it's true, a lot of science fiction and
horror really lend themselveswell to short form.
Yeah, a lot of these things are.
You know this is diminutive,but like one-trick ponies, you
know they've got the hook.
It's a good idea.
It does not need to be a fullpiece.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
While the work of HG Wells may not be incredibly
unnerving to ahyper-desensitized modern
audience, you can see how thesestories and other science
fiction works from the timestarted to one lay the
groundwork for major spacehorror themes to come, and two
start to combine two existinggenres into something new
(11:37):
science fiction and horror.
I want to talk briefly aboutwho HG Wells was.
Wells was born on September21st 1866 as Herbert George
Wells.
He wrote over 50 novels anddozens of stories.
To many he is known as thefather of science fiction.
Quoting from the New Yorkerarticle by Adam Gopnik quote HG
Wells is remembered today mostlyas the author of four visionary
(11:58):
science fiction perennials withpremises so simple and strong
that they can sustain any amountof retelling the War of the
Worlds, the Invisible man, theTime Machine and the Island of
Dr Moreau.
Social historians recall Wellsas one of the brighter
technological optimists andleft-wing polemicists of the
early part of the 20th century.
(12:18):
He is also remembered amongBrits with a taste for evergreen
gossip, as perhaps the mosterotically adventurous man of
his generation, the satyr of thesocialists.
I have done what I pleased hewrote.
Every bit of sexual impulse inme has expressed itself.
The case is sometimes even made.
That Wells invented the wordsex, that he pioneered its
(12:39):
modern use in his 1900 novelLove, and Mr Lewis Ham as a
shorthand for the totality ofthe activity.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Can you imagine being the guy that officially
invented sex?
Well, the word sex I mean.
Come on, you go to a bar andyou're like hey, you know, I
invented sex, whoa.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I don't know if it would land the way people
think it would.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
And then you pull out the newspaper article that says
as such From the New Yorkeryeah.
You're like proof.
That's incredible.
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But even if that fact is overstated, Wells was a
colorful and vibrant figure whotook interest in many different
subjects and activities beyondpioneering the science fiction
subgenre.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, sex.
I'm always curious, you know,especially with these heavy
genre authors.
Are they successful duringtheir time or is it the type of
thing where he becomes famouspostmortem?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
He was in fact successful and, I would say,
someone who had really made itduring his time, which is
particularly cool, I think,because, again, what he did was
really groundbreaking.
He really invented sciencefiction and he was immediately
recognized and beloved for that.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
This guy really broke the mold.
He was a total science fictionnerd and invented sex.
It's like polar opposites.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
All this happened before there was a mold.
He predated the mold.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I guess when you're writing the playbook you
can make it whatever you want.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Another early and revolutionary space horror story
was from 1934, so quite a bitlater called A Martian Odyssey
by Stanley G Weinbaum.
A Martian Odyssey is set onMars and it tells the story of
the first landing on Mars froman Earth-based ship and the
horrors that an American chemistencounters on his journey to
(14:27):
photograph the red planet.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
There was a flurry of tentacles and a spurt of black
corruption, and then the thing,with a disgusting sucking noise,
pulled itself and its arms intoa hole in the ground.
The other let out a series ofclacks, staggered around on legs
about as thick as golf sticks,and turned suddenly to face me.
(14:51):
I held my weapon ready and thetwo of us stared at each other.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
See, now we're really getting there, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
He stood on legs as thick as golf sticks.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Those are some.
It's like a cat.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, that's why he's very alien, is he big?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
or is he just a cat?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
No, he's tall, he's tall.
Tall and golf stick legs, golfclub legs.
I mean, what's a golf stick?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It's just a golf club , or is he talking about, like
the T?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Ooh, a tiny man.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Tiny stick, tiny stick legs.
I oh, a tiny man, tiny stick,tiny stick legs.
I don't know, we don't know.
If he has only four, he cantake this guy.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I do find it interesting, though, that so
many of these really earlystories describe aliens as
having tentacles, and I thinkthere's obvious reasons for that
.
Like we knew about that.
We've talked about this alllast summer with our Horror on
the high seas series, but atthis time we, like humans, would
be hyper aware of the mysticalcreatures, the kraken even giant
(15:49):
squids and octopus things thatlive in the ocean is kind of
they're using that as a proxybecause they fear those things.
Right, and there's like thisalienoidness about them, which
is why sea horror is also soprominent.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Do you remember John Carter?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
No.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So John Carter.
I think it was a novel or shortstory, but Disney remade it as
a movie and the premise is thatan Earth boy is brought to Mars
and because the gravity is lowerbut he grew up on Earth, his
strength is greater thaneveryone else's, To the point
where he's basically the Hulk.
He has to fight in likegladiatorial arenas and he has
(16:28):
superpowers because the gravityis a little bit less and he can
just pummel people.
So if we have a golf stick, legMartian and you're from Earth,
you can just rip this thingapart with your teeth.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
That's pretty fun, I mean, unless they're friendly,
but it sounded like they weren'tthat doesn't stop you from
ripping it apart with your teeth.
You probably shouldn't, butWeinbaum also published a sequel
to his story called Valley ofDreams four months later.
And I'm just going to pausehere as we sort of transition
into the film section of theepisode today and talk a little
bit about A Trip to the Moonfrom 1902, because A Trip to the
(17:04):
Moon certainly is not a horrorfilm, but it's one of the
earliest films ever made.
It's from George Millais whomade a lot of the really really
early genre pieces.
The first horror film was his.
The first science fiction filmwas his.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Was that the cauldron thing?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, what's that called the House of the Devil?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I find it fascinating that some of the old and these
films are, like you know,minutes long at best.
But I find it fascinating thatsome of the first films that
ever existed were genre filmsand so, even though obviously
science fiction only came aboutreally in you know, at a certain
period of time, compared to thevast history of literature, by
(17:45):
the time film came around as amedium, genres led the way.
So I find it to be really,really interesting and go watch
A Trip to the Moon if youhaven't seen it.
It is delightfully charming.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
but quite trippy.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
We're going to jump ahead to 1953 with an early
example of a space horror moviecalled it Came from Outer Space.
The film was directed by JackArnold, who also directed
Creature from the Black Lagoon,and written by Harry Essex,
based on a story by Ray Bradbury.
Similar to HG Wells, bradburyis another key player when it
comes to science fiction, thoughhe also worked in horror,
(18:22):
fantasy and just regular fictionDrama.
Perhaps Bradbury was born in1920.
Some of his most famous worksinclude Fahrenheit 451, the
Martian Chronicles, somethingWicked this Way Comes and A
Sound of Thunder, just to name afew, and I think, if I'm
correct in my memory, a Sound ofThunder is the story that
(18:43):
introduced the idea of thebutterfly effect.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
The plot of it Came From Outer Space follows an
amateur astronomer and writernamed John Putnam.
And so John witnesses a meteorcrash into the desert in Arizona
.
He decides to follow what heyou know, the trail of where he
thinks this thing crashed, andhe realizes that it wasn't a
meteor at all but a spacecraft.
But the craft ends up beingburied by the sand after there's
(19:08):
a landslide, so it kind ofdisappears.
It slips away from him.
But my favorite part about thismovie is that when the locals,
people who live around the crashsite, they start acting very
strangely and it has a verysimilar energy to like the
invasion of the body snatchersand I think this film, for the
time period, feels particularlyeerie and unnerving.
(19:29):
It has this again like uncannyvalley almost in the characters,
right when you realize what'sgoing on.
You start to put it together,but people look like people.
And it's strange.
It's on Earth, right?
It's not in space, it's onEarth, yeah, and it feels like
extra invasive.
Because of that, it'sconsidered to be one of the
earliest sci-fi films to portrayextraterrestrials as
(19:52):
misunderstood rather than purelymenacing, right, and that's
something we're going to talkabout a lot today.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know, as soon as you start talking about that,
that got me thinking like wait aminute, this sounds kind of
similar to them like the movieabout the giant ants, right,
kind of similar to to them likethe the movie about the giant
ants right because I thought itwas like a meteor or something
that caused them.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But nope, it was just atomic radiation that's
something I ran into a lot withthis episode.
You're like oh, this plot's sofamiliar, but it's just skinned
with a different yep, adifferent science fiction trope
which I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I feel like that is space horror, as the macro Right
Is that it's fear of the other.
You have some kind of unknowncatalyst that causes chaos,
right, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, that's true.
There's so many different filmsin the space horror subgenre
that mimic this setup and alsosituations by the way from real
life.
Alien encounter claims alsomimic this.
So, like the stuff going on inRoswell, area 51, like a lot of
it has similar conspiracytheories to this setup that
something crash landed thegovernment saying, oh that
(21:01):
nothing, that was from a test orthat was a meteor, that was
just debris, and it turns out tobe a spacecraft according to
these conspiracy theories.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well as someone that worked on the show was I
abducted.
It turns out that the real crux, it's not aliens abducting the
populace, it's mostly peoplehaving traumatic childhood
memories and suppressing theminto unhealthy ways.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Alan, you missed your time to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Why.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
We have two episodes with Andy where there is an open
safe space forum.
I believe people who have notall people, but a lot of people
who have alien encounters andinvasion experiences
experiencers, I believe they'recalled, and I would encourage
folks to check out Greg and DanaNewkirk and to watch the
(21:51):
Hellier series, to read intoMothman and then we'll talk
about it.
I'm a believer, not of allpeople, but generally.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
These are not mutually exclusive.
You can believe in Mothman andalso believe that someone's dad
was super creepy and alsobelieve that someone's dad was
super creepy.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Sure, I believe that those things are true, but I
also believe that if somebodyhas an experience with something
like this, it doesn'tnecessarily only mean that they
had a fucked up childhood.
All right, let's talk aboutSphere from 1998.
And Sphere is again verysimilar to it Came From Outer
Space in its setup, but it wasmade in the 90s, so it's
(22:28):
entirely re-skinned.
Sphere, with its star-studdedcast, tells the story of an
alien craft that is discoveredin modern times at the bottom of
Earth's ocean.
So we are on planet Earth.
So this is my favorite elementsof this movie, one of the few
good elements of this movie,which is that the alien craft
has been dated to crashing inthe ocean in the late 1600s.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I thought it was 1709 .
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, I think it's the late 1600s.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
A group of scientists travel to the bottom of the
ocean, so then they discoverthat there's a real life alien
on board the ship.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, they backdate it based off the coral growth.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So they get a bunch of scientists who have different
strengths to travel to thebottom of the ocean.
I also just want to shout outto Andy back to the interviews
we did with him on all this afew months ago, because in the
movie I think it's reallyinteresting the guy who's
briefing them before the missionsays the most.
The one thing that we can counton right the most expected
(23:29):
outcome is terror.
The idea of seeing somethinglike this just totally fucking
with your head.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, I mean, it's spooky.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Changes your perception of what reality is,
though.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I saw this movie as a kid and I thought, wow, this is
a film.
And then we rewatched it justrecently for this episode and,
wow, it's not good, it's notgood, it's not good.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Sphere stars Dustin Hoffman, samuel L Jackson,
sharon Stone, liev Schreiber,peter Coyote, queen Latifah,
huey Lewis and James Pickens Jr.
And still it's not that good.
The setup of this film hassimilarities to the Thing from
1982, annihilation from 2018,arrival from 2016, and Contact
(24:12):
from 1997.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Again, this idea that something alien has come to
Earth and people, a group ofscientists, typically need to
deal with it.
But in this case and you know,mild spoiler, so fast forward 30
seconds if you don't want tohear.
It's an American spaceship,it's just from the future.
So, like all sorts oframifications there that they,
you know, it really becomesalmost like a time travel movie
too.
It is.
It's a time traveling vessel.
Yeah, that somehow got allfucked up.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
All of these movies, the movies that I just listed, I
would say qualify as spacehorror, even though, again,
they're broadly set on Earthbecause the characters are
dealing with somethinghorrifying from another planet.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, I'm glad you brought up the thing, because I
think that's an incredibleexample of space horror that
takes place on Earth.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
In the Kurt Russell version it's just in the
permafrost and then is thawedyeah.
And then wreaks all sorts ofhavoc and then, once it starts
to not have its way, tries to go, freeze itself, and so it can
like, rinse and repeat, and youknow a few hundred years, right?
But that is a perfect exampleof being afraid of the other,
(25:24):
right?
Because in this case itimpersonates your friends, and
if you can't trust your friends,who can you trust?
And so you can trust nobody.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
It's a master's, a paranoia-driven story that takes
place in an isolated Antarcticresearch station where a group
of scientists encounter ashapeshifting alien that can
(25:54):
perfectly imitate any livingbeing it assimilates.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Can it only imitate one at a time?
I don't remember I don'tremember either.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's that good, you don't even know In 2018, alex
Garland's Annihilation wasreleased.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Adopted from the novel by Jeff Vandermeer,
annihilation is vaguely aboutaliens, but in a very subtle way
compared to most of theseexamples right.
The thing behind the curtain,if you will, is hinted at as
being from another planet.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I got to watch that movie again.
You and I saw it in theaters.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
We saw it in your apartment.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We saw it in theaters ?
No, we didn't.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I also think Arrival is incredibly similar, like it's
interesting when you startthinking about films in terms of
this very specific plot setupand how many of them that there
are.
But I think, like Arrival is anexcellent movie and a lot of
people reference it a lot I andyactually referenced it in our
interviews about, hypothetically, a film that the government
(26:53):
worked with hollywood on to sortof get the public used to the
idea of how something might goif there is an encounter with
aliens I don't think I've seenarrival I don't think you have
either.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
It's with amy adams definitely not, then it's good,
it's very good what's, what'sthe uh, what's the premise?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
so the premise is that, um, a handful of these
alien craft spaceships, if youwill start landing around all
around the globe, everywhere,and they decide to bring in amy
adams, who is this kind of verywell respected linguist,
linguist, hussie, she's alinguist to communicate with the
aliens because she has thisproficiency in communication,
(27:35):
whatever, so she figures out howto speak to them using their
language.
I think it's really cool andit's also one of those things
similar to it Came From OuterSpace, space where the aliens
start to end sphere, where thethe alien thing starts to have,
like this, impact on her in a ina way that she's never
experienced before, because theyhave powers that we don't have
(27:58):
right.
So I won't spoil the rest of it,but I think it's a very strong
film okay yeah, so I thinkthat's the first category right,
which is that the aliens cometo earth in like a government
experiment way.
Another kind of right, which isthat the aliens come to Earth
in like a government experimentway.
Another kind of adjacentcategory to that is the aliens
come to Earth but they're notcoming to fuck around and
communicate with us with alinguist, they're coming to
invade.
So two kind of similar butseparate, different versions of
(28:22):
that.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Right One is you come as an infiltration tactic, and
now we have an alien invasionmovies, which is you come in a
full, you know, militaryoperation.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Right.
So movies like War of theWorlds and Signs come to mind.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Mars Attacks.
Mars Attacks the scariest movieever made.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Oh, I don't know that .
I've seen it.
You ever see Mars Attacks?
I don't think so, holy cow.
Maybe, I had to watch it infilm school.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That was pinnacle 90s cinema.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Wait, was it Brian De Palma?
No, tim Burton.
What is the Mars movie I'mthinking from Brian De Palma?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Ghosts of Mars.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
You just made that up .
Mission to Mars from 2000.
It was Halloween night 1938when Orson Welles' infamous
radio play the War of the Worldswas broadcast to millions of
Americans.
Some listeners did not realizeit was fictional and thought
that aliens were actuallyinvading Earth, despite several
notices that the broadcast wasnot real.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
These are the things you can get away with before
social media.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
The radio drama was based on the 1898 novel the War
of the Worlds by HG Wells.
The program was skinned as abreaking news broadcast, a very
convincing one.
The production was the 17thepisode of a CBS radio series
called the Mercury Theater onthe Air.
The beginning of the programwas formatted as a series of
breaking news reports thatinterrupted music and other sort
(29:42):
of regularly scheduledprogramming.
The War of the Worlds tells thestory of an alien invasion that
starts in Grover's Mill, newJersey.
Again, just to set the scenehere, it's the late 1930s.
You're flipping through theradio as you listen to right all
the time.
It's your common mode ofentertainment with your family
and suddenly there's breakingnews reports that are just
(30:03):
interrupting regular programmingabout an alien invasion in
Grover's Mills, new Jersey, andit glistens like wet leather.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
And that face it, ladies and gentlemen.
It's indescribable.
I can hardly force myself tokeep looking at it.
The eyes are black and gleamlike a serpent.
The mouth is V-shaped, withsaliva dripping from its rimless
lips that seem to quiver andpulsate.
The monster, or whatever, canhardly move.
(30:50):
It seems weighed down bypossibly gravity or something.
The thing's raising up.
The crowds fall back now.
They've seen plenty.
This is the most extraordinaryexperience.
I can't find words.
I'll pull this microphone withme as I talk.
(31:10):
I'll have to stop thedescription until I can take a
new position.
Hold on, will you please.
I'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Thank you, Alan, for that lively retelling.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Thank you, that's how they talked.
Back then I tried to channel myTom Cruise when he technically
was a Scientologist, but beforewe all knew how crazy they were.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Fair enough.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, because you know, war of the Worlds, the
movie, yeah, we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So, more so than the actual public panic, newspapers
took a firm stance against Wellsin the following days, some
outlets calling CBS and OrsonWelles irresponsible and
deceptive.
So we all.
I think it's like very commonlore that War of the Worlds.
Oh my God.
It fooled the public and it didfool some people.
But it didn't cause this likepublic panic as much as it was
(32:05):
painted out to by the media.
A study conducted by RadioResearch Project revealed that
of the scared listeners, onlyabout a third of them realized
the subject matter wasextraterrestrials.
The other two-thirds assumedthe broadcast was describing
some sort of natural disaster ora German invasion.
This is a very important pointto pause on, because leading up
(32:27):
to Halloween nighteen night 1938, the american public had become
dependent on radio news for thefirst time.
Not only were they able toaccess more real-time
information than ever before,everyone knew that the tides
were turning towards a world war, and less than a year later, on
september 1st 1939, the naziswould invade poland, and two
(32:47):
days after that france and greatbritain declared war on germany
wow yeah, it's pretty intensethat's depressing
Speaker 2 (32:56):
because here we are again here we are again, still
in the thick of it, listening tofake news, fighting nazis
fighting.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I mean seriously yeah it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Why can't it just be like?
You know what would be a bestcase scenario?
Tell me If Orson Welles justpopped out and be like guys, it
was me.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
I've been doing this the whole time.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
The Trump presidency is Orson Welles' next War of the
Worlds, his giant cash grab,and I would personally pay him
so much money.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Despite the rumored panic caused by the War of the
Worlds broadcast, modernresearch suggests that it was
mostly exaggerated by thenewspapers reporting on it.
The number of angry lettersdirected at CBS and Wells was
actually quite low compared toother controversial radio
broadcasts at the time.
Wells ended the broadcast byreassuring listeners that the
program was indeed make-believe.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Quote did he read it himself?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
He was part of it.
Yeah, there's some greatpictures from that broadcast and
actually I have an article upon our website which shows the
pictures.
If you go to lunaticsprojectcomand just search for War of the
Worlds or Orson Welles, you'llfind it.
But he, yeah, he was one of thelive performers.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You can search on our website.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, I just added a search bar.
This is kind of cool.
It's pretty fun.
How'd you do that?
I Googled it.
Wow, yeah.
Wells ended the broadcast byreassuring listeners that the
program was indeed make-believe.
Quote if your doorbell ringsand there's nobody there there
was no Martian it's Halloween.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Well, yeah, that's just, you were too slow and the
kids moved on.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I love this example of space horror because it is
such a unique case Even to thosefew people who did believe an
alien invasion was happening.
It must have been horrifying,right.
It must have really been a very, very scary thing.
It reminds me of the people inthe movie theater right when the
what's it called the trainmovie, like one of the first
movies, and what's it called?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Train to Busan.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
The Great Train Robbery is playing and they run
out of the way of the trainbecause they don't realize that
it's a projector screen, becausethey're stupid, it's just net,
new technology.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So stupid.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
All right.
In 1953, a film adaptation byByron Haskins was released, and
in 2005, steven Spielberg'sversion starring Tom Cruise hit
theaters.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Great callback.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I really loved that movie when it came out in 2005.
Really, yeah, huh, you didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Nah.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I mean, it's okay, you have terrible taste.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's okay.
The problem is that the endingis so stupid.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Well, that's a great point, but we're going to get to
that actually in a second.
One of my favorite examples ofalien invasions is Signs from
2002, directed by M NightShyamalan.
When Signs was released, itterrified a generation, myself
included, and in my opinion,despite its problematic leading
cast, it's one of his best films.
Who's problematic?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Well, the movie stars Mel Gibson, joaquin Phoenix,
name.
One thing Mel Gibson's donewrong.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Rory Culkin and Abigail Breslin.
It tells the story of aspecific family as they brace
for this alien invasion that'scoming.
It tells the story of aspecific family as they brace
for this alien invasion that'scoming.
But it does this great job ofusing this horrifying situation
right to tell a deeper storyabout humanity, family grief and
, interestingly, both the War ofthe Worlds and Signs share a
common mechanic in which thealiens are weak to water and
(36:27):
apparently, according to myresearch, this is quite
controversial.
But I think it's a cool, Ithink it makes sense as a
mechanic.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
In War of the Worlds.
They're not weak to water.
Yeah, they are.
What are you talking about?
They're weak to water.
They die to the common cold.
Aren't they weak to water?
No, I think I'm right.
No, they die to the common cold.
(36:55):
All of a sudden, all thetripods just fall over and die
because of simple bacteria.
Because, despite having all ofthe resources of an
intergalactic civilization, theydon't think to test the air
quality.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
You're right, I guess .
Speaker 2 (37:02):
That's why it's the dumbest ending of all time.
I'm really off my game todayyou gotta stop drinking.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Switching gears to films that take place in space.
2001, a Space Odyssey from 1968was directed by Stanley Kubrick
based on existing material fromArthur C Clarke, and it
impacted science fiction andspace horror in a big way.
But I found this article, whichI'll kind of quote a little bit
from which kind of changed myopinion of this movie, of quote
a little bit from which kind ofchanged my opinion of this movie
(37:30):
, because looking back, I thinkfrom our generation, it's
thought of, as you know,anything Stanley Kubrick touches
is gold, but also it's thisvery cinematic and beloved film.
But it's interesting the way itwas initially perceived.
So we're going to get into thatin a second.
But 2001 is really in many waysright.
It's about man versus machine,more so than man versus space.
(37:52):
We actually ended up talkingabout it a lot during our AI
horror series from last year.
But fascinating to me was thatinitially, 2001 was met with
terrible reception, so much sothat after the premieres, which
I think were described in thisarticle as disasters, they ended
up cutting 20 minutes from themovie.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, the credits.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
But it became popular with an unexpected crowd.
According to the New Yorkerarticle by Dan Chassian, hippies
Quoting from his article, quotehippies may have saved 2001.
Stoned audiences flocked to themovie.
David Bowie took a few drops ofcannabis tincture before
watching and countless othersdropped acid.
According to one report, ayoung man at a showing in Los
(38:38):
Angeles plunged through themovie screen shouting it's God,
it's God.
John Lennon said he saw thefilm every week, skipping ahead
a little bit, little bit.
The iconic star gate sequencein 2001, when dave bowman, the
film's protagonist, hurdles inhis space pod through a corridor
of swimming kaleidoscopiccolors even can be timed with
(38:58):
sufficient practice to crestwith the viewer's own
hallucinations.
The studio soon caught on and anew tagline was added to the
movie's redesigned posters theultimate trip end quote.
It's a pretty movie it's boring,oh it's slow it's very slow and
I don't have a lot of but it'snot, it's not slow on drugs.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I've not had the pleasure this is a movie that is
often brought up as thepinnacle of visuals.
It is no mystery why peopleloved it.
Simply for that and that alone,the plot is pretty rudimentary.
Sure, it's just like a tripthrough time.
(39:40):
And then Dave fights with Halabout opening the stupid hatch.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
But still, I mean, that line gives me chills.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
I mean, yeah, hal's pretty mean I would love to see
a death match between Hal and Imean, that line gives me chills.
I mean, yeah, hal's pretty meanI would love to see a death
match between Hal and, you know,chatgpt.
I think ChatGPT is going to winbecause they can make cool
pictures.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Well, I've been thinking and I think that you
should do the Scary Scuffle onPatreon.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
This year, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, I think that would be fun.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
I think that should be a wide release for the masses
.
But no, that sounds like a funidea.
But it's a very important filmand important films don't need
to be good.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
They just have to be important for their time.
Well, and important for areason.
I think you're right that it'simportant because of the visual
masterpiece Right.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Context is everything .
The great train robbery youknow what Kind of boring, you
know not a lot happens.
I mean it's pretty lively,Right.
But between the Great TrainRobbery and, I don't know, Taken
, I think Taken is the betterfilm.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
What about Snowpiercer?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Oh, fucking Snowpiercer is amazing.
It's unfair to lump Snowpiercerin with the other two.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Train Horror.
That could be an upcoming topic.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Train horror.
Sure, it's going to be short.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So a lot of the success of 2001 relied on the
actual science itself.
So Kubrick spent time payingattention to see what NASA was
doing.
He was literally trying to beatthe mission to the moon because
he thought that if he didn't itwould change sort of the
perception of the movie as beingthis groundbreaking thing.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Right, because they get there and they find a copy
of the film already.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
But Kubrick did have the luxury of special effects
right.
He could bring people with himinto space in a way that NASA
can't.
But he did beat the moonlanding by one year.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
And I will say I feel like 2001 feels a lot more
modern than you watch it today,than it has any right to Like.
This movie was made in the 60sit was over 50 years ago and I
think when you watch it, italmost has this like timeless
quality to it, which issomething that's really hard to
accomplish with science fictionand space horror, because so
(41:53):
much of it relies on specialeffects right, because we're not
actually filming in space andit feels really evergreen in a
way, to me.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Speaking of filming in space.
Whatever happened with thesound stages they were building
in space?
I don't know, you don't knowthis.
No, I remember people talkingabout it.
Maybe this was pre-pandemic, Ican't even remember.
Maybe this was pre-pandemic,but I'm butchering my details
but somebody was literallybuilding a soundstage like, for
(42:25):
you know, a filming studio inorbit.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
That's very impressive.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I mean, yeah, it's kind of cool right it's
expensive, though.
That's like fuck you money thatis fuck you money, yeah.
No, that that's a hundredpercent, is fuck you money, yeah
, but being able to film in zerogravity has clear advantages,
right, sure, and I think someonewas racing to do the first
movie that was fully in space.
I really want to say this ispre-pandemic, just because this
(42:54):
seems very much like the type ofproject that would completely
be put on hold because, like, ofa fucking pandemic.
Yeah, and they're like.
You know, we got bigger fish tofry.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, fair enough.
I'm going to quote one moretime from the New Yorker article
.
Yorker article quote thegrandeur of 2001,.
The product of two men, clarkand Kubrick, who were sweetly
awestruck by the thought ofinfinite space, required in its
execution micromanagement of apreviously unimaginable degree.
Kubrick strived to show theentire arc of human life, from
(43:25):
ape to angel, as Kaledismissively put.
It meant that he was making aspecial effects movie of radical
scope and ambition.
But in his initial letter toClark, a science fiction writer,
engineer and shipwreck explorerliving in Cylon, kubrick began
with the modest sounding goal ofmaking the proverbial really
good science fiction movie.
Kubrick wanted his film toexplore the reasons for
(43:48):
believing in the existence ofintelligent extraterrestrial
life and what it would mean ifwe discovered it.
End quote, which I think isinteresting because the movie
really ends up not being aboutthat at all.
Nope, 2001 became incrediblyinfluential despite its
lackluster initial reception,paving the way for space horror
films to come.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I will say that 2001, .
You know, I watched it for thefirst time in film school and
was super underwhelmed becauseyou think it's going to be this
really mind-blowing movie.
But when you watch it in classnot on drugs it's boring.
You know, it's not forteenagers or early 20-somethings
(44:31):
, it is for people that haveseen a lot of other things or,
you know, when you understandthe context of the film, it's
incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Now I later in life read Arthur C Clarke's 2001 A
Space Odysseysey yeah which Ithink was written after the
movie.
So he helped write the scriptfor the movie with kubrick yep
and then afterwards turned itinto a novel, which was dumb,
(45:03):
because he already wrotesomething and then wrote it
again.
And you also don't have thevisuals, because it's a book but
that's something that happensall the time in Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Around right you would get horror films like
Amityville and then it would getturned into a book after.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
By someone else as a cash grab.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Right, but I'm saying right that was a standard,
people almost expected itbackwards then.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Arthur C Clarke is a prolific sci-fi author.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
No, I know.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I know, I know I'm just saying that was kind of the
model at the time.
It just for me it seemed weirdthat he would write this when he
had so much other stuff in hisportfolio.
It wasn't bad, it was just kindof boring.
So maybe it was really true tothe source material.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
There you go, okay.
So this is a rivetingconversation, as always, alan,
and I do want to say I'm glad toshare with the listeners that
you're alive and well.
I know I've had some soloepisodes, some co-host episodes
with other folks.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
She tried to replace me, but I fought tooth and nail
to get back.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
No, we're just trying , we're being experimental this
year.
You know, we've been in thisgame now for a few years, maybe
five years, so we're justshaking things up a little bit,
seeing what sticks.
But he's here, he's alive, he'swell, he's hanging in.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
You give this girl one engagement ring and all of a
sudden you're off the podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Also just a quick announcement that our first
feature film, my first featurefilm, is debuting in San Jose,
california, on March 15th aspart of the CineQuest Film
Festival.
I can now publicly say that,which is so exciting to even
have something that I couldn'tpublicly say for a while.
If you go to the CineQuestwebsite, you can get tickets.
If anybody is on the West Coastor in San Jose or San Francisco
(46:39):
, I would love to see you there.
It's going to be a very specialevening for me personally on a
lot of levels, and it's a it's aspooky little film.
Alan will also be there, sohe'll be able to give autographs
to all of his super fans.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
I mean sure, but you'll have to get in line.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Anyway, it's very exciting to have a film premiere
out in the world and I'm veryoverwhelmed and figuring out all
of the things still.
But if you are on the WestCoast, if you're in San Jose or
San Francisco, we are debuting.
The film is called Voices Carry, march 15, 9pm as part of the
CineQuest Festival.
Okay, well, thank you guys.
So much for listening.
We will be back next time andpick up the conversation around
(47:19):
space horror, and you know whatwe're getting into next time is
Alien, the big one, dare, I say,the most iconic.
Stay spooky, stay well, andwe'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Bye, stay spooky stay well and we'll talk to you soon
.
Bye.
Hello everyone, Welcome back to another episode
of the Lunatics Radio Hourpodcast.
I am Abby Brinker sitting herewith Alan Kudan.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And today we are talking about the history of
space horror.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That is anything bad that happens in space, or from
space, or from, I mean space iseverywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's what I have always said.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, so this is literally Bad Stuff the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
There you go.
So let's talk about what spacehorror is right off the bat,
because it can be a littletricky to define.
It's a subgenre of horror,obviously, and also, I would say
, in some cases, a subgenre ofscience fiction, depending on
how you want to play it.
But what we're really referringto, like Alan alluded to, is
horror films that are either setin space whether that's on
(01:07):
spacecraft, space stations or ondifferent planets or horror
films that are set on Earth, butthe evil villain is something
from space.
So I want to just say thehorror part of this is what
really sets this subgenre asidefrom all space science fiction
in general.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right, so it's either takes place off planet, sure,
or something off planet is onearth yes yeah, very easy, very
simple yeah or something to dowith the space-time continuum,
because that happens far toooften.
It gets all.
All you know wonky hell.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
We watch sphere well, more to come.
On sphere.
I have a lot of thoughts, notvery pleasant ones.
All right, let's get intotoday's sources.
We have a new yorker article byadam gopnik the war inside hg
wells from 2021.
A new york times article byMikado Murphy how Aliens Spawned
so Many Others, from 2017, anArtnetcom article by Tim
(02:10):
Brinkhoff as Seen on Alien HRGeiger's Biomorphic Nightmare
the War of the World's RadioBroadcast Transcripts.
A New Yorker article by DanChassian from 2018, 2001 A Space
Odyssey what it Means and howit Was Made.
And a publicbookscom article byEleanor Johnson Speaking the
Monster Ecofeminism and Alienand Aliens.
(02:33):
And, as always, we link oursources in the description of
this podcast so you can followalong and check them out.
From what I could find out, Ibelieve that space horror
started in the late 1800s withthe Star by HG Wells, which was
a story that was released in1897.
The Star is about the impendingfear of a planet that is
(02:54):
suddenly hurtling towards Earth,which is a situation we
actually find ourselves in today.
What there's like an asteroidor a meteor or whatever that's
gonna hit Earth in like 2032, orsomething?
There's like a 3% chance, whichwhatever that's going to hit
Earth in like 2032 or something.
There's like a 3% chance whichis like the highest it's ever
been.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Who knows where the statistic is now.
I just saw some expert talkingabout this.
Sorry, there was air quoteswhen I said expert.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
A Reddit post, I presume.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
No, actually this was on broadcast news and the
percentage had gone from 1% to2%.
This makes it the moststatistically relevant
astronomical doomsday event inrecorded history.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Rock and roll, talk about timely topics.
So again, the star is a shortstory about a planet that is
hurtling towards Earth right andin a very poetic way.
I think the short story startson New Year's Day and it has
this very cool you can find itonline and read it.
I'll release it on Patreon toour followers there, but it has
(03:56):
this really interesting lensalmost of cosmic horror and
themes of this like very crueluniverse right.
That I feel like set the scenein some ways for later space
horror.
It's kind of like there's tonsof different versions of space
horror that we're going to talkabout today thematically, but
one of those themes is manversus like instead of monster
(04:17):
or whatever, like vastness ofspace or just the science of
space, and I think this is anexample of that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It reminds me of a far more modern film called
Moonfall.
We're going to be prettyrespectful about spoilers.
However, this is a terriblemovie, so if you don't want
spoilers, skip ahead 30 seconds,otherwise here it comes.
So Moonfall is about the moonfalling to Earth, right, and so
you know, humanity is preparingall these things and then, of
(04:49):
course, they do a bunch ofshenanigans to divert the moon
at the last minute.
But the people that were on themoon diverting it, you know it
comes so close to Earth thatthey are able to jump from the
moon to Earth and then do like alittle invert gravity thing.
It's like 20 feet, it misses by, like you know, a coat of paint
(05:10):
, and then they land on Earthand the moon sails by.
I can only imagine that this isthe exact plot of the star.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Isn't it also the plot of Melancholia?
Have you seen that movie?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
What's that.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's that Lars von Trier movie with Kristen Dunst,
where there's like two sistersand there's just this planet
that's slowly moving and it'sabout the way that the different
way that the sisters arereacting.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Huh, nope, that sounds way better.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Perhaps I haven't seen it so I cannot say, but
let's read a brief passage fromthe end of the Star.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So it was that, presently to the European
watchers, star and sun roseclose upon each other, drove
headlong for a space and thenslower and at last came to rest.
Star and sun merged into oneglare of flame at the zenith of
the sky.
The moon no longer eclipsed thestar, but was lost to sight in
(06:01):
the brilliance of the sky.
And though those who were stillalive regarded it, for the most
part, with that dull stupiditythat hunger, fatigue, heat and
despair engender, there werestill men who could perceive the
meaning of these signs.
Star and earth had been attheir nearest, had swung about
(06:21):
one another, and the star hadpassed Already.
It was receding swifter andswifter in the last stage of its
headlong journey downward intothe sun.
And then the clouds gathered,blotting out the vision of the
sky.
The thunder and lightning wove agarment around the world.
All over the earth was adownpour of rain as men had
(06:42):
never before seen, and where thevolcanoes flared red against
the cloud canopy, theredescended torrents of mud
Everywhere.
The waters were pouring off theland, leaving mud-stilted ruins
and the earth littered like astorm-worn beach, with all that
had floated and the dead bodiesof the men and brutes, its
(07:03):
children.
For days, the water steamed offthe land, sweeping away soil
and trees and houses in the wayand piling huge dikes and
scooping out titanic gulliesover the countryside.
Those were the days of darknessthat followed the star and the
heat All through them, and formany weeks and months the
(07:23):
earthquakes continued, but thestar had passed and men, hunger
driven and gathering courageonly slowly I thought that was a
haunting apocalyptic.
Look at this sort of man versusspace on one hand, this seemed
like any bit of modern dayscience fiction.
Sure they're talking about thegeologic ramifications of a
(07:44):
planetary body coming too closeto Earth.
You know things boiling offfamine, like all these things.
It was like completely fuck upthe ecosystem Right, While
simultaneously it had the syntaxand diction of the 1800s and it
can fuck right off becausethat's so hard to read.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You read it very, very well.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
After lots of takes and lots of editing.
Thank you, Abby.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Another early short story that kicked off the space
horror genre was also written byHG Wells.
Surprise, surprise the storythe Crystal Egg was also
published in 1897.
Highly unique, the Crystal Eggtells the story of a shop owner
who finds a crystal egg thatactually allows a user to see
(08:24):
what's happening on Mars.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Are there things happening on Mars?
I haven't read it, but Iimagine, if you look at it, you
just see dust.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
You're going to tell us what's happening on Mars, my
friend, but before we do that,there's something about the
crystal egg that reminds me somuch of Little Shop of Horrors.
What?
Because the whole premise ofLittle Shop is that he finds he
buys this like highly uniqueplant which is really like an
alien plant and it's just likethe idea of like a shop owner
(08:54):
finding this like magical itemand having it cause like a
little bit of localized chaos,you know.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So it's the plot of Gremlins.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh, that chaos becomes less localized, yeah
sure I mean, I'm sorry, justsomething that lets you see the
ongoings of mars yeah of a deadplanet it's not so dead in this
short story, oh let's find outwill you, uh, do us the honor
alan of quoting from one of mrcave's visions within the
(09:22):
crystal egg the body.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Body was small but fitted with two bunches of
prehensile organs like longtentacles, immediately under the
mouth.
Incredible as it appeared to MrWace, the persuasion at last
became irresistible that it wasthese creatures which owned the
great quasi-human buildings andmagnificent garden that made the
(09:44):
broad valley so splendid.
And Mr Cave perceived that thebuildings, with other
peculiarities, had no doors andthat the great circular windows
which opened freely gave thecreatures egress and entrance.
They would alight upon theirtentacles, fold their wings to a
smallness almost rod-like andhop into the interior.
(10:06):
But among them was a multitudeof smaller winged creatures like
great dragonflies and moths andflying beetles, and across the
greensward, brilliantly coloredgigantic ground, beetles crawled
lazily to and fro.
Moreover, on the causeways andterraces, large-headed creatures
, similar to the greater wingedflies but wingless, were visible
(10:29):
, hopping busily upon theirhand-like tangle of tentacles.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
See, there's a lot going on in Mars.
Yeah, I'm skeptical.
Well, it's science fiction,it's space horror, it's fair.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
So what he?
So?
He uses his little voyeurcrystal to skeeve on these bugs.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
You heard it here.
First I mean read the story.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Maybe I will, it's not that long.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I think you'd like it .
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know it's true, a lot of science fiction and
horror really lend themselveswell to short form.
Yeah, a lot of these things are.
You know this is diminutive,but like one-trick ponies, you
know they've got the hook.
It's a good idea.
It does not need to be a fullpiece.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
While the work of HG Wells may not be incredibly
unnerving to ahyper-desensitized modern
audience, you can see how thesestories and other science
fiction works from the timestarted to one lay the
groundwork for major spacehorror themes to come, and two
start to combine two existinggenres into something new
(11:37):
science fiction and horror.
I want to talk briefly aboutwho HG Wells was.
Wells was born on September21st 1866 as Herbert George
Wells.
He wrote over 50 novels anddozens of stories.
To many he is known as thefather of science fiction.
Quoting from the New Yorkerarticle by Adam Gopnik quote HG
Wells is remembered today mostlyas the author of four visionary
(11:58):
science fiction perennials withpremises so simple and strong
that they can sustain any amountof retelling the War of the
Worlds, the Invisible man, theTime Machine and the Island of
Dr Moreau.
Social historians recall Wellsas one of the brighter
technological optimists andleft-wing polemicists of the
early part of the 20th century.
(12:18):
He is also remembered amongBrits with a taste for evergreen
gossip, as perhaps the mosterotically adventurous man of
his generation, the satyr of thesocialists.
I have done what I pleased hewrote.
Every bit of sexual impulse inme has expressed itself.
The case is sometimes even made.
That Wells invented the wordsex, that he pioneered its
(12:39):
modern use in his 1900 novelLove, and Mr Lewis Ham as a
shorthand for the totality ofthe activity.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Can you imagine being the guy that officially
invented sex?
Well, the word sex I mean.
Come on, you go to a bar andyou're like hey, you know, I
invented sex, whoa.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I don't know if it would land the way people
think it would.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
And then you pull out the newspaper article that says
as such From the New Yorkeryeah.
You're like proof.
That's incredible.
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But even if that fact is overstated, Wells was a
colorful and vibrant figure whotook interest in many different
subjects and activities beyondpioneering the science fiction
subgenre.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, sex.
I'm always curious, you know,especially with these heavy
genre authors.
Are they successful duringtheir time or is it the type of
thing where he becomes famouspostmortem?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
He was in fact successful and, I would say,
someone who had really made itduring his time, which is
particularly cool, I think,because, again, what he did was
really groundbreaking.
He really invented sciencefiction and he was immediately
recognized and beloved for that.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
This guy really broke the mold.
He was a total science fictionnerd and invented sex.
It's like polar opposites.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
All this happened before there was a mold.
He predated the mold.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I guess when you're writing the playbook you
can make it whatever you want.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Another early and revolutionary space horror story
was from 1934, so quite a bitlater called A Martian Odyssey
by Stanley G Weinbaum.
A Martian Odyssey is set onMars and it tells the story of
the first landing on Mars froman Earth-based ship and the
horrors that an American chemistencounters on his journey to
(14:27):
photograph the red planet.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
There was a flurry of tentacles and a spurt of black
corruption, and then the thing,with a disgusting sucking noise,
pulled itself and its arms intoa hole in the ground.
The other let out a series ofclacks, staggered around on legs
about as thick as golf sticks,and turned suddenly to face me.
(14:51):
I held my weapon ready and thetwo of us stared at each other.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
See, now we're really getting there, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
He stood on legs as thick as golf sticks.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Those are some.
It's like a cat.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, that's why he's very alien, is he big?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
or is he just a cat?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
No, he's tall, he's tall.
Tall and golf stick legs, golfclub legs.
I mean, what's a golf stick?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It's just a golf club , or is he talking about, like
the T?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Ooh, a tiny man.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Tiny stick, tiny stick legs.
I oh, a tiny man, tiny stick,tiny stick legs.
I don't know, we don't know.
If he has only four, he cantake this guy.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I do find it interesting, though, that so
many of these really earlystories describe aliens as
having tentacles, and I thinkthere's obvious reasons for that
.
Like we knew about that.
We've talked about this alllast summer with our Horror on
the high seas series, but atthis time we, like humans, would
be hyper aware of the mysticalcreatures, the kraken even giant
(15:49):
squids and octopus things thatlive in the ocean is kind of
they're using that as a proxybecause they fear those things.
Right, and there's like thisalienoidness about them, which
is why sea horror is also soprominent.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Do you remember John Carter?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
No.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So John Carter.
I think it was a novel or shortstory, but Disney remade it as
a movie and the premise is thatan Earth boy is brought to Mars
and because the gravity is lowerbut he grew up on Earth, his
strength is greater thaneveryone else's, To the point
where he's basically the Hulk.
He has to fight in likegladiatorial arenas and he has
(16:28):
superpowers because the gravityis a little bit less and he can
just pummel people.
So if we have a golf stick, legMartian and you're from Earth,
you can just rip this thingapart with your teeth.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
That's pretty fun, I mean, unless they're friendly,
but it sounded like they weren'tthat doesn't stop you from
ripping it apart with your teeth.
You probably shouldn't, butWeinbaum also published a sequel
to his story called Valley ofDreams four months later.
And I'm just going to pausehere as we sort of transition
into the film section of theepisode today and talk a little
bit about A Trip to the Moonfrom 1902, because A Trip to the
(17:04):
Moon certainly is not a horrorfilm, but it's one of the
earliest films ever made.
It's from George Millais whomade a lot of the really really
early genre pieces.
The first horror film was his.
The first science fiction filmwas his.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Was that the cauldron thing?
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, what's that called the House of the Devil?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I find it fascinating that some of the old and these
films are, like you know,minutes long at best.
But I find it fascinating thatsome of the first films that
ever existed were genre filmsand so, even though obviously
science fiction only came aboutreally in you know, at a certain
period of time, compared to thevast history of literature, by
(17:45):
the time film came around as amedium, genres led the way.
So I find it to be really,really interesting and go watch
A Trip to the Moon if youhaven't seen it.
It is delightfully charming.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
but quite trippy.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
We're going to jump ahead to 1953 with an early
example of a space horror moviecalled it Came from Outer Space.
The film was directed by JackArnold, who also directed
Creature from the Black Lagoon,and written by Harry Essex,
based on a story by Ray Bradbury.
Similar to HG Wells, bradburyis another key player when it
comes to science fiction, thoughhe also worked in horror,
(18:22):
fantasy and just regular fictionDrama.
Perhaps Bradbury was born in1920.
Some of his most famous worksinclude Fahrenheit 451, the
Martian Chronicles, somethingWicked this Way Comes and A
Sound of Thunder, just to name afew, and I think, if I'm
correct in my memory, a Sound ofThunder is the story that
(18:43):
introduced the idea of thebutterfly effect.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
The plot of it Came From Outer Space follows an
amateur astronomer and writernamed John Putnam.
And so John witnesses a meteorcrash into the desert in Arizona
.
He decides to follow what heyou know, the trail of where he
thinks this thing crashed, andhe realizes that it wasn't a
meteor at all but a spacecraft.
But the craft ends up beingburied by the sand after there's
(19:08):
a landslide, so it kind ofdisappears.
It slips away from him.
But my favorite part about thismovie is that when the locals,
people who live around the crashsite, they start acting very
strangely and it has a verysimilar energy to like the
invasion of the body snatchersand I think this film, for the
time period, feels particularlyeerie and unnerving.
(19:29):
It has this again like uncannyvalley almost in the characters,
right when you realize what'sgoing on.
You start to put it together,but people look like people.
And it's strange.
It's on Earth, right?
It's not in space, it's onEarth, yeah, and it feels like
extra invasive.
Because of that, it'sconsidered to be one of the
earliest sci-fi films to portrayextraterrestrials as
(19:52):
misunderstood rather than purelymenacing, right, and that's
something we're going to talkabout a lot today.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know, as soon as you start talking about that,
that got me thinking like wait aminute, this sounds kind of
similar to them like the movieabout the giant ants, right,
kind of similar to to them likethe the movie about the giant
ants right because I thought itwas like a meteor or something
that caused them.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But nope, it was just atomic radiation that's
something I ran into a lot withthis episode.
You're like oh, this plot's sofamiliar, but it's just skinned
with a different yep, adifferent science fiction trope
which I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I feel like that is space horror, as the macro Right
Is that it's fear of the other.
You have some kind of unknowncatalyst that causes chaos,
right, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, that's true.
There's so many different filmsin the space horror subgenre
that mimic this setup and alsosituations by the way from real
life.
Alien encounter claims alsomimic this.
So, like the stuff going on inRoswell, area 51, like a lot of
it has similar conspiracytheories to this setup that
something crash landed thegovernment saying, oh that
(21:01):
nothing, that was from a test orthat was a meteor, that was
just debris, and it turns out tobe a spacecraft according to
these conspiracy theories.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well as someone that worked on the show was I
abducted.
It turns out that the real crux, it's not aliens abducting the
populace, it's mostly peoplehaving traumatic childhood
memories and suppressing theminto unhealthy ways.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Alan, you missed your time to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Why.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
We have two episodes with Andy where there is an open
safe space forum.
I believe people who have notall people, but a lot of people
who have alien encounters andinvasion experiences
experiencers, I believe they'recalled, and I would encourage
folks to check out Greg and DanaNewkirk and to watch the
(21:51):
Hellier series, to read intoMothman and then we'll talk
about it.
I'm a believer, not of allpeople, but generally.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
These are not mutually exclusive.
You can believe in Mothman andalso believe that someone's dad
was super creepy and alsobelieve that someone's dad was
super creepy.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Sure, I believe that those things are true, but I
also believe that if somebodyhas an experience with something
like this, it doesn'tnecessarily only mean that they
had a fucked up childhood.
All right, let's talk aboutSphere from 1998.
And Sphere is again verysimilar to it Came From Outer
Space in its setup, but it wasmade in the 90s, so it's
(22:28):
entirely re-skinned.
Sphere, with its star-studdedcast, tells the story of an
alien craft that is discoveredin modern times at the bottom of
Earth's ocean.
So we are on planet Earth.
So this is my favorite elementsof this movie, one of the few
good elements of this movie,which is that the alien craft
has been dated to crashing inthe ocean in the late 1600s.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I thought it was 1709 .
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, I think it's the late 1600s.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
A group of scientists travel to the bottom of the
ocean, so then they discoverthat there's a real life alien
on board the ship.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, they backdate it based off the coral growth.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So they get a bunch of scientists who have different
strengths to travel to thebottom of the ocean.
I also just want to shout outto Andy back to the interviews
we did with him on all this afew months ago, because in the
movie I think it's reallyinteresting the guy who's
briefing them before the missionsays the most.
The one thing that we can counton right the most expected
(23:29):
outcome is terror.
The idea of seeing somethinglike this just totally fucking
with your head.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, I mean, it's spooky.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Changes your perception of what reality is,
though.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I saw this movie as a kid and I thought, wow, this is
a film.
And then we rewatched it justrecently for this episode and,
wow, it's not good, it's notgood, it's not good.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Sphere stars Dustin Hoffman, samuel L Jackson,
sharon Stone, liev Schreiber,peter Coyote, queen Latifah,
huey Lewis and James Pickens Jr.
And still it's not that good.
The setup of this film hassimilarities to the Thing from
1982, annihilation from 2018,arrival from 2016, and Contact
(24:12):
from 1997.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Again, this idea that something alien has come to
Earth and people, a group ofscientists, typically need to
deal with it.
But in this case and you know,mild spoiler, so fast forward 30
seconds if you don't want tohear.
It's an American spaceship,it's just from the future.
So, like all sorts oframifications there that they,
you know, it really becomesalmost like a time travel movie
too.
It is.
It's a time traveling vessel.
Yeah, that somehow got allfucked up.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
All of these movies, the movies that I just listed, I
would say qualify as spacehorror, even though, again,
they're broadly set on Earthbecause the characters are
dealing with somethinghorrifying from another planet.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, I'm glad you brought up the thing, because I
think that's an incredibleexample of space horror that
takes place on Earth.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
In the Kurt Russell version it's just in the
permafrost and then is thawedyeah.
And then wreaks all sorts ofhavoc and then, once it starts
to not have its way, tries to go, freeze itself, and so it can
like, rinse and repeat, and youknow a few hundred years, right?
But that is a perfect exampleof being afraid of the other,
(25:24):
right?
Because in this case itimpersonates your friends, and
if you can't trust your friends,who can you trust?
And so you can trust nobody.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
It's a master's, a paranoia-driven story that takes
place in an isolated Antarcticresearch station where a group
of scientists encounter ashapeshifting alien that can
(25:54):
perfectly imitate any livingbeing it assimilates.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Can it only imitate one at a time?
I don't remember I don'tremember either.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's that good, you don't even know In 2018, alex
Garland's Annihilation wasreleased.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Adopted from the novel by Jeff Vandermeer,
annihilation is vaguely aboutaliens, but in a very subtle way
compared to most of theseexamples right.
The thing behind the curtain,if you will, is hinted at as
being from another planet.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I got to watch that movie again.
You and I saw it in theaters.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
We saw it in your apartment.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We saw it in theaters ?
No, we didn't.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I also think Arrival is incredibly similar, like it's
interesting when you startthinking about films in terms of
this very specific plot setupand how many of them that there
are.
But I think, like Arrival is anexcellent movie and a lot of
people reference it a lot I andyactually referenced it in our
interviews about, hypothetically, a film that the government
(26:53):
worked with hollywood on to sortof get the public used to the
idea of how something might goif there is an encounter with
aliens I don't think I've seenarrival I don't think you have
either.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
It's with amy adams definitely not, then it's good,
it's very good what's, what'sthe uh, what's the premise?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
so the premise is that, um, a handful of these
alien craft spaceships, if youwill start landing around all
around the globe, everywhere,and they decide to bring in amy
adams, who is this kind of verywell respected linguist,
linguist, hussie, she's alinguist to communicate with the
aliens because she has thisproficiency in communication,
(27:35):
whatever, so she figures out howto speak to them using their
language.
I think it's really cool andit's also one of those things
similar to it Came From OuterSpace, space where the aliens
start to end sphere, where thethe alien thing starts to have,
like this, impact on her in a ina way that she's never
experienced before, because theyhave powers that we don't have
(27:58):
right.
So I won't spoil the rest of it,but I think it's a very strong
film okay yeah, so I thinkthat's the first category right,
which is that the aliens cometo earth in like a government
experiment way.
Another kind of right, which isthat the aliens come to Earth
in like a government experimentway.
Another kind of adjacentcategory to that is the aliens
come to Earth but they're notcoming to fuck around and
communicate with us with alinguist, they're coming to
invade.
So two kind of similar butseparate, different versions of
(28:22):
that.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Right One is you come as an infiltration tactic, and
now we have an alien invasionmovies, which is you come in a
full, you know, militaryoperation.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Right.
So movies like War of theWorlds and Signs come to mind.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Mars Attacks.
Mars Attacks the scariest movieever made.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Oh, I don't know that .
I've seen it.
You ever see Mars Attacks?
I don't think so, holy cow.
Maybe, I had to watch it infilm school.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That was pinnacle 90s cinema.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Wait, was it Brian De Palma?
No, tim Burton.
What is the Mars movie I'mthinking from Brian De Palma?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Ghosts of Mars.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
You just made that up .
Mission to Mars from 2000.
It was Halloween night 1938when Orson Welles' infamous
radio play the War of the Worldswas broadcast to millions of
Americans.
Some listeners did not realizeit was fictional and thought
that aliens were actuallyinvading Earth, despite several
notices that the broadcast wasnot real.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
These are the things you can get away with before
social media.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
The radio drama was based on the 1898 novel the War
of the Worlds by HG Wells.
The program was skinned as abreaking news broadcast, a very
convincing one.
The production was the 17thepisode of a CBS radio series
called the Mercury Theater onthe Air.
The beginning of the programwas formatted as a series of
breaking news reports thatinterrupted music and other sort
(29:42):
of regularly scheduledprogramming.
The War of the Worlds tells thestory of an alien invasion that
starts in Grover's Mill, newJersey.
Again, just to set the scenehere, it's the late 1930s.
You're flipping through theradio as you listen to right all
the time.
It's your common mode ofentertainment with your family
and suddenly there's breakingnews reports that are just
(30:03):
interrupting regular programmingabout an alien invasion in
Grover's Mills, new Jersey, andit glistens like wet leather.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
And that face it, ladies and gentlemen.
It's indescribable.
I can hardly force myself tokeep looking at it.
The eyes are black and gleamlike a serpent.
The mouth is V-shaped, withsaliva dripping from its rimless
lips that seem to quiver andpulsate.
The monster, or whatever, canhardly move.
(30:50):
It seems weighed down bypossibly gravity or something.
The thing's raising up.
The crowds fall back now.
They've seen plenty.
This is the most extraordinaryexperience.
I can't find words.
I'll pull this microphone withme as I talk.
(31:10):
I'll have to stop thedescription until I can take a
new position.
Hold on, will you please.
I'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Thank you, Alan, for that lively retelling.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Thank you, that's how they talked.
Back then I tried to channel myTom Cruise when he technically
was a Scientologist, but beforewe all knew how crazy they were.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Fair enough.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, because you know, war of the Worlds, the
movie, yeah, we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So, more so than the actual public panic, newspapers
took a firm stance against Wellsin the following days, some
outlets calling CBS and OrsonWelles irresponsible and
deceptive.
So we all.
I think it's like very commonlore that War of the Worlds.
Oh my God.
It fooled the public and it didfool some people.
But it didn't cause this likepublic panic as much as it was
(32:05):
painted out to by the media.
A study conducted by RadioResearch Project revealed that
of the scared listeners, onlyabout a third of them realized
the subject matter wasextraterrestrials.
The other two-thirds assumedthe broadcast was describing
some sort of natural disaster ora German invasion.
This is a very important pointto pause on, because leading up
(32:27):
to Halloween nighteen night 1938, the american public had become
dependent on radio news for thefirst time.
Not only were they able toaccess more real-time
information than ever before,everyone knew that the tides
were turning towards a world war, and less than a year later, on
september 1st 1939, the naziswould invade poland, and two
(32:47):
days after that france and greatbritain declared war on germany
wow yeah, it's pretty intensethat's depressing
Speaker 2 (32:56):
because here we are again here we are again, still
in the thick of it, listening tofake news, fighting nazis
fighting.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I mean seriously yeah it's horrible.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Why can't it just be like?
You know what would be a bestcase scenario?
Tell me If Orson Welles justpopped out and be like guys, it
was me.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
I've been doing this the whole time.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
The Trump presidency is Orson Welles' next War of the
Worlds, his giant cash grab,and I would personally pay him
so much money.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Despite the rumored panic caused by the War of the
Worlds broadcast, modernresearch suggests that it was
mostly exaggerated by thenewspapers reporting on it.
The number of angry lettersdirected at CBS and Wells was
actually quite low compared toother controversial radio
broadcasts at the time.
Wells ended the broadcast byreassuring listeners that the
program was indeed make-believe.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Quote did he read it himself?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
He was part of it.
Yeah, there's some greatpictures from that broadcast and
actually I have an article upon our website which shows the
pictures.
If you go to lunaticsprojectcomand just search for War of the
Worlds or Orson Welles, you'llfind it.
But he, yeah, he was one of thelive performers.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You can search on our website.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, I just added a search bar.
This is kind of cool.
It's pretty fun.
How'd you do that?
I Googled it.
Wow, yeah.
Wells ended the broadcast byreassuring listeners that the
program was indeed make-believe.
Quote if your doorbell ringsand there's nobody there there
was no Martian it's Halloween.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Well, yeah, that's just, you were too slow and the
kids moved on.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I love this example of space horror because it is
such a unique case Even to thosefew people who did believe an
alien invasion was happening.
It must have been horrifying,right.
It must have really been a very, very scary thing.
It reminds me of the people inthe movie theater right when the
what's it called the trainmovie, like one of the first
movies, and what's it called?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Train to Busan.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
The Great Train Robbery is playing and they run
out of the way of the trainbecause they don't realize that
it's a projector screen, becausethey're stupid, it's just net,
new technology.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So stupid.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
All right.
In 1953, a film adaptation byByron Haskins was released, and
in 2005, steven Spielberg'sversion starring Tom Cruise hit
theaters.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Great callback.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I really loved that movie when it came out in 2005.
Really, yeah, huh, you didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Nah.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I mean, it's okay, you have terrible taste.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's okay.
The problem is that the endingis so stupid.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Well, that's a great point, but we're going to get to
that actually in a second.
One of my favorite examples ofalien invasions is Signs from
2002, directed by M NightShyamalan.
When Signs was released, itterrified a generation, myself
included, and in my opinion,despite its problematic leading
cast, it's one of his best films.
Who's problematic?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Well, the movie stars Mel Gibson, joaquin Phoenix,
name.
One thing Mel Gibson's donewrong.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Rory Culkin and Abigail Breslin.
It tells the story of aspecific family as they brace
for this alien invasion that'scoming.
It tells the story of aspecific family as they brace
for this alien invasion that'scoming.
But it does this great job ofusing this horrifying situation
right to tell a deeper storyabout humanity, family grief and
, interestingly, both the War ofthe Worlds and Signs share a
common mechanic in which thealiens are weak to water and
(36:27):
apparently, according to myresearch, this is quite
controversial.
But I think it's a cool, Ithink it makes sense as a
mechanic.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
In War of the Worlds.
They're not weak to water.
Yeah, they are.
What are you talking about?
They're weak to water.
They die to the common cold.
Aren't they weak to water?
No, I think I'm right.
No, they die to the common cold.
(36:55):
All of a sudden, all thetripods just fall over and die
because of simple bacteria.
Because, despite having all ofthe resources of an
intergalactic civilization, theydon't think to test the air
quality.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
You're right, I guess .
Speaker 2 (37:02):
That's why it's the dumbest ending of all time.
I'm really off my game todayyou gotta stop drinking.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Switching gears to films that take place in space.
2001, a Space Odyssey from 1968was directed by Stanley Kubrick
based on existing material fromArthur C Clarke, and it
impacted science fiction andspace horror in a big way.
But I found this article, whichI'll kind of quote a little bit
from which kind of changed myopinion of this movie, of quote
a little bit from which kind ofchanged my opinion of this movie
(37:30):
, because looking back, I thinkfrom our generation, it's
thought of, as you know,anything Stanley Kubrick touches
is gold, but also it's thisvery cinematic and beloved film.
But it's interesting the way itwas initially perceived.
So we're going to get into thatin a second.
But 2001 is really in many waysright.
It's about man versus machine,more so than man versus space.
(37:52):
We actually ended up talkingabout it a lot during our AI
horror series from last year.
But fascinating to me was thatinitially, 2001 was met with
terrible reception, so much sothat after the premieres, which
I think were described in thisarticle as disasters, they ended
up cutting 20 minutes from themovie.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, the credits.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
But it became popular with an unexpected crowd.
According to the New Yorkerarticle by Dan Chassian, hippies
Quoting from his article, quotehippies may have saved 2001.
Stoned audiences flocked to themovie.
David Bowie took a few drops ofcannabis tincture before
watching and countless othersdropped acid.
According to one report, ayoung man at a showing in Los
(38:38):
Angeles plunged through themovie screen shouting it's God,
it's God.
John Lennon said he saw thefilm every week, skipping ahead
a little bit, little bit.
The iconic star gate sequencein 2001, when dave bowman, the
film's protagonist, hurdles inhis space pod through a corridor
of swimming kaleidoscopiccolors even can be timed with
(38:58):
sufficient practice to crestwith the viewer's own
hallucinations.
The studio soon caught on and anew tagline was added to the
movie's redesigned posters theultimate trip end quote.
It's a pretty movie it's boring,oh it's slow it's very slow and
I don't have a lot of but it'snot, it's not slow on drugs.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I've not had the pleasure this is a movie that is
often brought up as thepinnacle of visuals.
It is no mystery why peopleloved it.
Simply for that and that alone,the plot is pretty rudimentary.
Sure, it's just like a tripthrough time.
(39:40):
And then Dave fights with Halabout opening the stupid hatch.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
But still, I mean, that line gives me chills.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
I mean, yeah, hal's pretty mean I would love to see
a death match between Hal and Imean, that line gives me chills.
I mean, yeah, hal's pretty meanI would love to see a death
match between Hal and, you know,chatgpt.
I think ChatGPT is going to winbecause they can make cool
pictures.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Well, I've been thinking and I think that you
should do the Scary Scuffle onPatreon.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
This year, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, I think that would be fun.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
I think that should be a wide release for the masses
.
But no, that sounds like a funidea.
But it's a very important filmand important films don't need
to be good.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
They just have to be important for their time.
Well, and important for areason.
I think you're right that it'simportant because of the visual
masterpiece Right.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Context is everything .
The great train robbery youknow what Kind of boring, you
know not a lot happens.
I mean it's pretty lively,Right.
But between the Great TrainRobbery and, I don't know, Taken
, I think Taken is the betterfilm.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
What about Snowpiercer?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Oh, fucking Snowpiercer is amazing.
It's unfair to lump Snowpiercerin with the other two.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Train Horror.
That could be an upcoming topic.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Train horror.
Sure, it's going to be short.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
So a lot of the success of 2001 relied on the
actual science itself.
So Kubrick spent time payingattention to see what NASA was
doing.
He was literally trying to beatthe mission to the moon because
he thought that if he didn't itwould change sort of the
perception of the movie as beingthis groundbreaking thing.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Right, because they get there and they find a copy
of the film already.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
But Kubrick did have the luxury of special effects
right.
He could bring people with himinto space in a way that NASA
can't.
But he did beat the moonlanding by one year.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
And I will say I feel like 2001 feels a lot more
modern than you watch it today,than it has any right to Like.
This movie was made in the 60sit was over 50 years ago and I
think when you watch it, italmost has this like timeless
quality to it, which issomething that's really hard to
accomplish with science fictionand space horror, because so
(41:53):
much of it relies on specialeffects right, because we're not
actually filming in space andit feels really evergreen in a
way, to me.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Speaking of filming in space.
Whatever happened with thesound stages they were building
in space?
I don't know, you don't knowthis.
No, I remember people talkingabout it.
Maybe this was pre-pandemic, Ican't even remember.
Maybe this was pre-pandemic,but I'm butchering my details
but somebody was literallybuilding a soundstage like, for
(42:25):
you know, a filming studio inorbit.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
That's very impressive.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I mean, yeah, it's kind of cool right it's
expensive, though.
That's like fuck you money thatis fuck you money, yeah.
No, that that's a hundredpercent, is fuck you money, yeah
, but being able to film in zerogravity has clear advantages,
right, sure, and I think someonewas racing to do the first
movie that was fully in space.
I really want to say this ispre-pandemic, just because this
(42:54):
seems very much like the type ofproject that would completely
be put on hold because, like, ofa fucking pandemic.
Yeah, and they're like.
You know, we got bigger fish tofry.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, fair enough.
I'm going to quote one moretime from the New Yorker article
.
Yorker article quote thegrandeur of 2001,.
The product of two men, clarkand Kubrick, who were sweetly
awestruck by the thought ofinfinite space, required in its
execution micromanagement of apreviously unimaginable degree.
Kubrick strived to show theentire arc of human life, from
(43:25):
ape to angel, as Kaledismissively put.
It meant that he was making aspecial effects movie of radical
scope and ambition.
But in his initial letter toClark, a science fiction writer,
engineer and shipwreck explorerliving in Cylon, kubrick began
with the modest sounding goal ofmaking the proverbial really
good science fiction movie.
Kubrick wanted his film toexplore the reasons for
(43:48):
believing in the existence ofintelligent extraterrestrial
life and what it would mean ifwe discovered it.
End quote, which I think isinteresting because the movie
really ends up not being aboutthat at all.
Nope, 2001 became incrediblyinfluential despite its
lackluster initial reception,paving the way for space horror
films to come.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
I will say that 2001, .
You know, I watched it for thefirst time in film school and
was super underwhelmed becauseyou think it's going to be this
really mind-blowing movie.
But when you watch it in classnot on drugs it's boring.
You know, it's not forteenagers or early 20-somethings
(44:31):
, it is for people that haveseen a lot of other things or,
you know, when you understandthe context of the film, it's
incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Now I later in life read Arthur C Clarke's 2001 A
Space Odysseysey yeah which Ithink was written after the
movie.
So he helped write the scriptfor the movie with kubrick yep
and then afterwards turned itinto a novel, which was dumb,
(45:03):
because he already wrotesomething and then wrote it
again.
And you also don't have thevisuals, because it's a book but
that's something that happensall the time in Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Around right you would get horror films like
Amityville and then it would getturned into a book after.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
By someone else as a cash grab.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Right, but I'm saying right that was a standard,
people almost expected itbackwards then.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Arthur C Clarke is a prolific sci-fi author.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
No, I know.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I know, I know I'm just saying that was kind of the
model at the time.
It just for me it seemed weirdthat he would write this when he
had so much other stuff in hisportfolio.
It wasn't bad, it was just kindof boring.
So maybe it was really true tothe source material.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
There you go, okay.
So this is a rivetingconversation, as always, alan,
and I do want to say I'm glad toshare with the listeners that
you're alive and well.
I know I've had some soloepisodes, some co-host episodes
with other folks.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
She tried to replace me, but I fought tooth and nail
to get back.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
No, we're just trying , we're being experimental this
year.
You know, we've been in thisgame now for a few years, maybe
five years, so we're justshaking things up a little bit,
seeing what sticks.
But he's here, he's alive, he'swell, he's hanging in.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
You give this girl one engagement ring and all of a
sudden you're off the podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Also just a quick announcement that our first
feature film, my first featurefilm, is debuting in San Jose,
california, on March 15th aspart of the CineQuest Film
Festival.
I can now publicly say that,which is so exciting to even
have something that I couldn'tpublicly say for a while.
If you go to the CineQuestwebsite, you can get tickets.
If anybody is on the West Coastor in San Jose or San Francisco
(46:39):
, I would love to see you there.
It's going to be a very specialevening for me personally on a
lot of levels, and it's a it's aspooky little film.
Alan will also be there, sohe'll be able to give autographs
to all of his super fans.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
I mean sure, but you'll have to get in line.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Anyway, it's very exciting to have a film premiere
out in the world and I'm veryoverwhelmed and figuring out all
of the things still.
But if you are on the WestCoast, if you're in San Jose or
San Francisco, we are debuting.
The film is called Voices Carry, march 15, 9pm as part of the
CineQuest Festival.
Okay, well, thank you guys.
So much for listening.
We will be back next time andpick up the conversation around
(47:19):
space horror, and you know whatwe're getting into next time is
Alien, the big one, dare, I say,the most iconic.
Stay spooky, stay well, andwe'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Bye, stay spooky stay well and we'll talk to you soon
.
Bye.
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