May 20, 2025 • 35 mins
This week Abby sits down to discuss all things Astrology. From the earliest uses of star divination in ancient cultures, to Mercury in retrograde, and everything in between.
Sources
- Time Magazine article: Where Do Zodiac Signs Come From? By Olivia B. Waxman.
- Academic Paper from Richard Fitzpatrick as part of the physics department at the University of Texas, Austin: Ptolemy’s Almagest: Fact and Fiction.
- National Geographic article by Catherine Caruso: What are the ancient origins of your zodiac sign?
- 14 Famous Predictions by Nostradamus by Robert Johnson.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Lunatics Radio Hourpodcast.
I am Abbey Branker and I amincredibly excited for today's
topic.
I am going to be talking to yousolo today, but again, rest
assured that Alan is alive andwell and yelling to me about how
Nostradamus is a hack from theother room.
Ever since I was a very youngchild, I had a deep fascination
(00:40):
with astrology and my personalzodiac sign, which is Taurus.
During childhood, my mom wouldpoint out to me all the time
that my stubbornness was reallya direct result of being a
Taurus, which I'm proud to say Ithink I still exemplify.
But from horoscopes and birthcharts to Mercury and retrograde
, today we're going to talkabout some of the history of
astrology dating back thousandsof years.
(01:02):
In some ways, astrology hasshifted and evolved over the
centuries, and in others it'sstill oddly similar to its
origin, and I am not anastrologer nor a historian.
So, as always, this informationwas validated by research.
But if we missed anything orleft anything big out, you know
where to find us.
Today's sources are a TimeMagazine article by Olivia B
(01:23):
Waxman when Do Zodiac Signs ComeFrom?
An academic paper from RichardFitzpatrick as part of the
physics department of theUniversity of Texas, austin.
Ptolemy's Almagest Fact andFiction, a National Geographic
article by Kathleen Caruso.
What Are the Ancient Origins ofyour Zodiac Sign?
And 14 Famous Predictions byNostradamus by Robert Johnson.
(01:44):
Your zodiac sign and 14 famouspredictions by Nostradamus by
Robert Johnson.
And I hate to be that person,but I'm literally pulling the
definition of astrology fromMerriam-Webster.
I want to set a really clearbaseline for what we're talking
about today.
So, according to the dictionary, astrology is the divination of
the supposed influence of thestars and planets on human
affairs and terrestrial eventsby their positions and aspects,
(02:05):
and the zodiac is defined as animaginary band in the heavens,
centered on the ecliptic, thatencompasses the apparent paths
of all of the planets and isdivided into 12 constellations
or signs, each taken forastrological purposes to extend
30 degrees of longitude.
I think a lot of the times wethink of the word zodiac as the
name of the belief in signs, butat its definition, zodiac
(02:28):
refers to the belt-shaped regionor band in the sky that has
been divided into these 12 equalparts, each representing a
different constellation.
The word zodiac comes from theGreek word meaning circle of
little animals.
A horoscope is defined as quotea diagram of the relative
positions of planets and signsof the zodiac at a specific time
(02:48):
, as at one's birth, for use byastrologers in inferring
individual character andpersonality traits and in
foretelling events of a person'slife, or an astrological
forecast.
End quote.
So what I'm aiming to do todayis to really take astrology, the
zodiac, horoscopes, butgenerally the practice of
astrology.
So much of astrology is prettyintense math and equations that
(03:28):
I certainly don't have the typeof brain to understand or to
communicate to you guys directly.
So we're talking about reallythe history right today and how
it's evolved through differentcultures, where it stands now,
famous astrologers, kind of funhistory.
But you should know thatthere's astrologers out there
who could talk in a reallyin-depth, clear way about the
math behind astrology and Idon't want to deny that.
(03:50):
Whether you believe in itseffectiveness as a system or not
, the system itself, right, isvery much embedded within the
science of the planets and howthey move, and we're going to
talk about how that's evolvedover the years.
So, like I've said a few timesnow, astrology dates back
thousands of years.
In Mesopotamia, patterns in thesky were observed and then
linked to earthly events likeharvests or conflicts and wars,
(04:13):
things like that.
In ancient China, eclipses andsunspots would be studied to
make predictions for the emperor, though it's important to note
that this practice was appliedonly to him, no one else, right?
It's not like today, wheneveryone has a personal
understanding of astrology yourown zodiac sign.
At this point in time, in China, astrology was only for the
emperor, so everything that wasinterpreted by the priests of
(04:36):
the time were to advise theemperor alone.
And again, this might seempretty different to how we
interpret astrology today, but Iactually think it makes a lot
of sense.
In eras where the lower classesfelt like they did not
personally control much of theirlives, astrology would have
felt pretty pointless.
It also speaks to the power ofthe emperor, I think, and the
(04:56):
mentality that the one leader isso important.
Even the planets and stars hadmessages to guide this one
person, right?
It feels almost biblical inthat way.
Chinese astrology is, I think,the astrological system outside
of Western astrology that mostpeople would be familiar with,
because it uses this 12-yearcycle and it assigns an animal
(05:18):
based on your birth year, right?
So, for example, 2025 is theyear of the snake.
I think I was born in the yearof the horse.
I think people generally kindof know their Chinese astrology
animal.
Different animals areassociated with different traits
, similar to the Western zodiacsystem, right, but this time
it's by year instead of by birthdate and time.
Vedic or Indian astrology isalmost 3,000 years old.
(05:40):
Vedic astrology uses actualstar constellations.
Birth charts in this system arereferred to as kundalis, and
astrology also incorporateskarma and dharma.
In Vedic astrology there are 12signs, which differ from the
Western signs but have somesimilarities.
Vedic astrology also includeslunar mansions, which are
(06:00):
moon-based constellations.
One of my favorite types ofastrology is Mayan and Aztec
astrology, because there's stillevidence of it in Mexico and
South America in the form ofpyramids, and I've been lucky
enough to have visited a few ofthese sites in the last few
years, both in Mexico, and it'sincredibly profound and
impressive.
I really cannot stress thatenough.
(06:21):
One site that I went to wasoutside of Mexico City and then
Chichen.
Itza is about an hour or twofrom Tulum.
Mayans were both astrologers andastronomers.
They had the ability and theskills to predict planetary
events with precision Even tothis day.
For example, their pyramidswork as intended when built, so
some of these pyramids that theybuilt worked as calendars and
(06:43):
they still hold true to today.
So during an eclipse, forexample, a shadow this is on a
pyramid in Chichen Itza.
A shadow appears along thesteps of one side of the pyramid
, depicting serpents.
The Mayan calendar was a sacred260-day calendar and we
actually have a Mayan calendarthat we got from the pyramids
(07:03):
that I'm recording in front oftoday.
But personal astrology for theMayans combined your birth date
with one of these 13 uniquetones and that combination would
come up with a unique readingfor you.
The Babylonians and Sumerianspracticed astrology dating back
to the second millennium BCE andthey would use the Venus tablet
(07:23):
of Amisaduka to track wheregods were in the sky.
It was used as a way tointerpret messages and omens
from the gods, but only thequalified could read the stars,
so typically priests wereactually in charge of
interpreting the celestial.
Quoting from the Time articleby Olivia B Waxman, quote this
tablet, which is dated to thefirst millennium BC and tracks
(07:46):
the motion of Venus, is one ofthe earliest pieces of what's
been called Babylonian planetaryomens.
The ancient Egyptianscontributed the idea that
patterns of stars made upconstellations through which the
sun appears to move at specifictimes during the year end.
Quote.
There was also the Enuma AnuEnil, or a series of 70
(08:07):
cuneiform tablets that containedaround 7,000 celestial omens.
Some historians believe thatAlexander the Great actually
played a fairly big part in thehistory of astrology.
He conquered Egypt around 330BCE and historically the Greeks
had been very focused onmathematics and science.
So when cultures clashed here,it's generally thought that the
(08:30):
Greeks brought the math and thestructure to the Egyptian
astrology, and it sort of reallyformed the precursor to how we
think about astrology in moderntimes.
Quoting from the NationalGeographic article by Catherine
Caruso, quote the Babyloniansdeveloped 12 astrological signs,
some of which were laterincorporated into the Western
Zodiac.
However, it was the ancientGreeks who named these 12 star
(08:53):
signs after constellations andlinked them to specific dates
based on their alignment withthe sun's orbit.
These signs are Aries, taurus,gemini, cancer, leo, virgo,
libra, scorpius, sagittarius,capricornius, aquarius and
Pisces.
Despite the Greeks'contributions to astrology,
horoscopes were not prevalent inancient Greece.
(09:15):
Instead, the focus was on usingthe stars to connect with the
gods through divination.
Jumping ahead in the quote Overtime, babylonian astrology,
which interpreted celestialevents, merged with Greek
divination practices.
This blending led to thedevelopment of more personalized
horoscopes we see today.
End quote.
The zodiac became reallypopular in the Roman era, based
(09:36):
on concepts from Babylonianastrology and ancient Greek
astrology, often referred to asHellenistic astrology.
So I want to take a moment totalk through some important
astrological texts throughouthistory and this is different
from astronomy, right, as ofcourse we know but I'm really
just focusing on texts that feelimportant for astrological
reasons, but it is a thin line.
(09:58):
In 350 BCE, aristotle wrote Onthe Heavens.
On the Heavens lays outAristotle's theories on the
universe.
He defines types of motion awayfrom a center, towards a center
and around a center.
He talks about how earth andwater the elements are heavy and
thus move towards the center ofthe earth, while fire and water
(10:19):
are light and move away.
A lot of it is also about theelements and these four elements
really being the buildingblocks in a lot of ways.
Notably, aristotle starts todefine gravity in this book when
he explains that the heaviestelements fall.
He also lays out that the earthspins around a pair of poles
and he notices that the spinningis a consistent speed.
(10:40):
All pretty major revelations.
He defines the elements andnotes that there must be a
finite amount of earth, air,fire and water, because there is
no way to make more of thoseelements.
He also defines heavy and light.
Ertothenes of Cyrene is creditedwith most accurately defining
earth's radius, around 200 BCE.
(11:01):
And while this may seem heavilymathematical again because of
the calculations that go intoastrology it's actually quite
important.
Hipparchus of Nicaea iscredited with explaining the
seasons through astronomy,around 150 BCE.
In the second century, claudiusPtolemy wrote the Almagest, a
mathematical text on the pathsof the stars and the planets.
(11:23):
It's thought to be one of themost important astrological
texts from history.
For one thing, it solidifiedthe belief that Earth was the
center of the universe and thatthe moon and the sun orbited
around the Earth.
It became a main source oftruth for Greek astronomy and it
was accepted as fact for nearly1,200 years across the medieval
European, islamic and Byzantinecultures, until Copernicus.
(11:47):
Claudius Ptolemy also wroteTetra Bilbos, in which he
created the foundation formodern astrology and zodiac
signs.
This is where many trace theorigin of personal horoscope
reading to, but generally peoplewere reading personal
horoscopes for a very, very longtime before this.
I do want to take a moment totalk about Claudius Ptolemy,
(12:07):
because he is so important tounderstanding the history of
astrology.
So Ptolemy was born around 100AD we don't know exactly when or
where, and because he had aLatin name, it's generally
assumed that he was a Romancitizen, but his last name was
Greek.
Beyond his work on astrologicaltheory, he also spent his time
studying music theory, math andgeology.
(12:28):
He died in the 160s or 70s inAlexandria, egypt, as part of
the Roman Empire.
Between the 8th and 13thcenturies, muslim scholars
translated the Roman and Greektexts to Arabic.
Islamic astrology had a heavyfocus on math.
Many astrologers were alsoastronomers.
Astrology had a heavy focus onmath.
(12:49):
Many astrologers were alsoastronomers.
Astrology wasn't just used forpersonal predictions, but also
for medicine and politics.
In the Middle Ages, astrologybecame incredibly widespread in
its practice, especially acrossWestern Europe.
So it kind of has gone throughthese different phases and dips
and flows in popularity, right,but okay, so Middle Ages, it's
becoming a widespread practiceagain, really talking about
(13:11):
Western Europe here.
So, quoting again from theNational Geographic article
quote during the Middle Ages,astrology was widespread and
significantly influencedeveryday decisions.
It was practiced not only bydoctors, astronomers and other
scientific professionals, but italso played a crucial role in
the development of alchemy, aproto-scientific precursor to
(13:32):
chemistry.
So just pausing here to say howimportant astrology has been to
sciences, right, it reallybroke away at some point and
became coined as a pseudoscience, and I'm not saying that's
wrong at all, but it's reallyfascinating that all of these
things kind of came up together.
Right Back to the quote.
In 14th century Europe,astrologers were commonly found
at royal courts, where theyregularly provided personal
(13:54):
horoscopes to monarchs.
This practice was so prevalentthat Charles V of France even
commissioned the translation ofastrological texts.
However, astrology's reputationshifted during the 15th century
witch trials in England, whereit became associated with
sorcery and paganism.
As a result, some monarchsbegan to distance themselves
(14:15):
from individual horoscopes.
End quote.
When we really talk aboutanything on the podcast and we
trace back the history of athing, we end up talking about a
lot of these same cultures, ofcourse, because they've been so
influential throughout historythe Egyptians, the Babylonians,
mesopotamia, of course, ancientGreek and Rome.
But it's so fascinating to seehow different things pull away
(14:36):
and how different things arecondemned.
Right, and so interestingly,astrology is pulled out as
something bad during the witchtrials in Europe, but astronomy
or other things aren't.
And obviously there's adifference between those things,
right, because one isdivination and another is pure
science.
But you start to see this pullduring this time period in the
(14:57):
14th century and the separation.
Whereas previously all thesethings kind of came up together,
right Now there's kind of aseparation, and part of that is
certainly that some of thesethings are based on science and
there's a scientific revolutiongoing on, but of course there's
also political and religiousreasons, right, something that
is purely not Christian goesthrough a different phase and
(15:19):
era of being, you know,condemned as something pagan,
right, like the quote calls out.
But by the Renaissance there'sa resurgence of astrology.
This time period reallysolidified astrology as a
personal and, most importantly,accessible practice.
So where, kind of before theRenaissance, astrology needed to
be done with an astrologer or ascientist in a lot of ways
(15:41):
right to really understand?
During the Renaissance, a lotof the barriers for the everyday
person went away because chartsand calendars and different
tools that were really easy tounderstand were developed and so
the everyday person couldunderstand their zodiac signs.
Quoting again from the NationalGeographic article, quote While
the Western Zodiac is widelyrecognized, other cultural
(16:03):
practices have also shapedastrology worldwide.
In India, vedic astrologyincorporates ancient Hindu
beliefs and practices, offeringa unique perspective on
celestial influences.
Chinese astrology, rooted inTaoist philosophy, assigns
animal signs based on birthyears, influencing cultural
practices and societal beliefs.
(16:24):
Nostradamus was born in Decemberof 1503.
He was a French astrologer,seer and physician and, of
course, he famously publishedhis book of prophecies in 1555.
Nostradamus claimed that hispredictions were based on
astrology, mainly judicialastrology.
Many of his predictions came inthe form of quatrains or four
lines.
For example and these are alittle more poetic maybe than
(16:47):
you expected quote the younglion will overcome the older one
on the field of combat in asingle battle.
He will pierce his eyes througha golden cage, two wounds made
one.
Then he dies a cruel death.
End.
Quote Many believe this endedup being a prediction of the
death of Henry II, because in1559, king Henry II of France
(17:08):
faced off against Comte deMontgomery on a field of combat
and both had lions on theirshields.
The king was hit with two wounds, and one through his eye, just
as the poem predicted.
He then survived for 10 daysbefore he passed.
Certainly a cruel death.
Another example this one isabout the fire of London.
Certainly a cruel death.
Another example this one isabout the fire of London.
(17:30):
Quote the blood of the justwill be demanded of London burnt
by fire in the year 66.
The ancient lady will fall fromher high place and many of the
same sect will be killed.
End quote.
In the year 1666, a small firestarted in a bakery in London
and burned on for three days,completely decimating the city.
And finally, world War II andHitler.
Quote from the depths of thewest of Europe.
(17:51):
A young child will be born ofpoor people, he who by his
tongue will seduce a great troopand fame will increase towards
the realm of the east.
End quote.
And also pairing that with asecond one quote beasts
ferocious with hunger will crossrivers.
The greater part of thebattlefield will be against
Heister.
In a cage of iron will thegreat one be drawn when the
(18:13):
child of Germany observesnothing?
End quote.
And the atomic bomb quote nearthe gates and within two cities,
there will be scourges the likeof which was never seen Famine
within plague, people put out bysteel crying to the great
immortal God for relief.
End quote.
There are many, many examples ofthese predictions by
Nostradamus.
(18:33):
Some are more on the nosefeeling than others.
Some, you know, feel okay,there's some direct facts here,
like the year 1966.
Others just generally maybefeel pretty vague.
And though his language cansometimes feel specific, if not
poetic and flowery.
It's generally believed thatmuch of his work is based on
ancient end-of-world biblicalprophecies.
(18:55):
So again though, astrology isin full swing today.
After the Renaissance, itdipped again in popularity with
the rise of the scientificrevolution right.
So another reason that it kindof got pulled back.
In the 1600s, william Lilly, aBritish astrologer, was born.
But beyond just being anastrologer, lilly had a really
(19:19):
interesting life that I want tobriefly discuss.
He was born as the son of afarmer in the countryside, and
he traveled to London to be aservant.
But seven years after startinghis employment, he ended up
marrying his former master'swidow, which is an insane move
and allowed him to one, becomerich and, two, study astrology.
He went on to publish manytexts on astrology, including
(19:39):
one called Christian Astrology,which is considered a seminal
work of Western astrology.
By 1659, he was selling about30,000 copies a year of his
annual almanac.
Cherio was an Irish astrologerborn in 1866.
Cherio is a stage name takenfrom Cheriomancy or palmistry,
(19:59):
and I love a historic astrologer, a tarot reader or general
fortune teller that served therich and famous, and Chirio was
just that.
So he actually learnedpalmistry, astrology and
numerology in India.
He had been in Bombay for quitea bit of time as a kid and
really kind of took up with oneteacher and mentor.
Similar to Nostradamus, he alsomade predictions on world
(20:21):
events Around the same time,evangeline Adams rose to
popularity as an Americanastrologer in New York City.
So she ran a popular servicewhere she would read people's
birth and natal charts.
But she gained even morepopularity after she was able to
successfully defend thevalidity of her business in
court.
And this was because she wasarrested three times while
(20:43):
practicing in New York City,once in 1911, 1914, and 1923.
And just as a side note, ourfriend Marie Carter has an
excellent book called Mortimerand the Witches which is not
about astrology per se but it isall about fortune tellers,
specifically female fortunetellers in New York City around
this time and even a bit earlier, and the perils and the life
(21:05):
that they live.
And there's a lot of comedy andlightness in the book.
But it's also really areflection of a dark time and
fortune telling astrology thesekinds of professions became in a
lot of cases the only way for awoman to break out financially
right.
That was the options where youcould marry somebody rich, you
could work in a factory, be aseamstress, something like that,
(21:28):
or you could be an astrologerand really work for yourself.
So highly recommend Mortimerand the Witches by Marie Carter.
But Evangeline Adams alsoreleased many books on astrology
and, interestingly, occultistAlistair Crowley actually ghost
wrote them.
She also contributed to hiswork the general practice of
astrology.
But eventually theirrelationship became sullied and
(21:51):
a copyright battle ensued.
She was also met with criticismfrom skeptics because despite
several successful predictionsto the stock market, she didn't
quite understand the economiclandscape enough to make clear
predictions.
In 1930, british astrologer R HNaylor published a horoscope for
Princess Margaret in the SundayExpress.
Naylor used her birth chart topredict that she would have an
(22:14):
eventful life and that events oftremendous importance to the
royal family and the nationwould happen near Princess
Margaret's seventh birthday.
Soon after the article waspublished, naylor started
consistently publishing weeklycolumns with birth chart
information for birthdays thatfell during the next week.
The column was called what theStars Foretell.
Other newspapers were inspiredand started running horoscopes
(22:36):
and columns, even the BostonGlobe in the United States, and
in the 80s many major newspapersalso incorporated astrology
phone lines, which I did notknow about, where readers would
call for personalized readings.
I sort of wish that stillexisted today.
Could you imagine calling theNew York Times for your personal
horoscope for the day?
And finally, jean Dixon gainednotoriety when she predicted the
(22:59):
assassination of JFK In the May13, 1956 issue of Parade
magazine.
Dixon wrote that the 1960election would go to a Democrat
and that the election would bedominated by labor.
She continued that the Democratwould either die in office or
be assassinated, but notnecessarily in his first term.
The Jean Dixon effect is a termthat came from John Allen
(23:21):
Paulus at Temple University, whopointed out that Dixon and her
followers seemed to only promoteher accurate predictions and
ignore her many, many falsepredictions.
Dixon died of cardiac arrest in1997, and before passing away
she is said to have uttered thewords I knew this would happen.
Okay, so we talked about thehistory of astrology famous
astrologers but let's take amoment to talk about modern
(23:44):
belief.
Modern personal astrology hasexpanded largely from just
knowing your one zodiac signright when I was a kid I think
it was like, okay, you're aTaurus, I'm a Libra, whatever to
complex birth charts withdifferent planets, nodes and
houses.
And while this always existed,I think it's become much more
common for the general personthe general, you know, amateur
(24:05):
astrologist to understand all ofthat.
So you can visit many differentfree websites to get a birth
chart by inputting your birthdate, time and location.
So think of a birth chart or anatal chart as really a snapshot
of the sky the moment that youwere born, for the location that
you were born and I've heardrecently that there's like about
a five minute buffer.
(24:26):
You know, things don't reallychange that dramatically in the
course of five minutes, right?
So it's really this map of thecelestial above you the moment
that you came into existence.
Now, all that's well and goodand scientific, right, but you
have to then take the leap ofbelieving that this arrangement
of planets and stars has somesort of power or influence over
(24:46):
you and your personality andyour tendencies, which I think
is a big leap and I'd have notnecessarily taken it right,
right?
So there's sort of like twothreads of astrology One is your
personality and then the otheris the events and things that
are going to happen based on theplanets right, and the movement
of the planets during a periodof time.
So, for instance, when you'rereading a horoscope, right, it
(25:08):
could be like ah, saturn movesinto the house of whatever you
know, you're going to have a badweek in love.
That kind of thing is really areflection of the movement of
the planets.
One phrase you may have heard isMercury in retrograde.
So about three or four times ayear, mercury appears to move
backwards in the sky as theearth orbits the sun at a
(25:28):
different speed.
Many think that the time whilemercury is in retrograde is
especially fraught with disaster.
Generally, believers think thatit impacts communication,
travel and technology.
But it also, I think, hasbecome in the last few years
like just this phrase, likeMercury's in retrograde.
You know, or is I'm having areally bad week?
Is Mercury in retrograde?
It's just kind of like thoughtof as this time, this universal
(25:52):
time when things are horrible.
You know whether it's littlethings, like stepping in a
puddle, or like big, big lifethings.
It's kind of like, well,mercury's in retrograde.
But this is just one example ofan astrological event that has
some sort of belief orinterpretation paired with it.
Right, this is really whatastrology is.
Modern day astrology oftencombines the general zodiac with
(26:13):
a framework of 12 houses,planetary placements and aspects
.
So again, that's really like a401 class where I have very
little understanding.
I've had my birth chart donemany times and it's very
interesting to sit down with anastrologer and take it all in.
I love doing it, but I thinkit's quite complicated to grasp
because there's so much, it's solarge and also there's so much
(26:37):
science and kind of likeastronomy involved in it.
So of course there's websitesthat will do this for you now,
but you still have to kind oflike astronomy involved in it.
So of course there's websitesthat will do this for you now,
but you still have to kind ofunderstand how, what all these
different things mean.
So I think, as a way to expandupon just being like I'm a
Taurus, but to keep it a littlebit more contained than doing a
full birth chart, a phrase youmight also hear is the big three
(26:59):
of astrology, which refers tosomeone's sun, moon and
ascendant or rising sign.
So your general zodiac sign isactually your sun sign.
So Taurus is my sun sign.
So I just popped in my birthdate time into cafeastrologycom,
which is a free website whereyou can do that.
So my sun sign is Taurus, mymoon sign is Capricorn and my
(27:21):
rising sign is Libra.
Generally, the sun signrepresents kind of who you are
right, the very core of who youare.
The moon sign, though, kind ofgoverns your inner feelings and
how you respond to your emotions, and then your rising sign is
really how you present yourselfto the world, right?
So there's sort of like who youare generally, who you are on
(27:44):
the inside and how youremotional center works and then
how the world perceives you.
There's also a reallyinteresting societal shift when
it comes to gender roles inastrology.
I noticed when I wasresearching some of the most
famous astrologers from history,so many of them were men, the
vast majority right.
Some doubled as mathematiciansand scientists, physicians,
(28:07):
geologists, musicians in somecases, depending on the era, or
priests, right, specialspiritual advisors to emperors
and kings.
So it's quite prestigious rightIn a lot of cases.
But now generally astrology isthought of as a pseudoscience at
best, and even though it's hadthis massive resurgence and just
this increase in followingduring my lifetime and even
(28:29):
starting right before mylifetime, I think it's still
quite polarizing.
It also certainly skews femaleand non-binary, I would say, and
no kings or presidents wouldopenly admit to using astrology
to make any decisions and I'mcertainly not saying they should
, to be clear, but I'm justreflecting on the evolution of
astrology, and though it'sshifted quite significantly,
it's still very much present.
(28:51):
I really think of it now assomething that comes up.
Not that I'm on dating apps, ofcourse, but my friends who are
right where guys will have,people will have in their
profiles you know, roll my eyesif you ask me my birth date, or
you know my my, for my birthdate and location to get my
birth chart read to understandour compatibility.
It has this kind of like.
(29:11):
A lot of people have this chipon their shoulder.
I think about astrology you'rekind of like either in it or
you're not, and I certainlydabble I I'm not sure that I'm a
huge believer in it one way orthe other, though I do think
sometimes it's pretty fun.
Again, the same way, I kind ofthink about the paranormal to
believe that I live in a worldwhere there's kind of deeper
meaning and you know deeperpowers that be, and hell yeah,
(29:34):
I'd love to live in a worldwhere the planets kind of rule
everything.
That sounds pretty fun, but I'mnot certainly confident that
that's the case.
But I'm not certainly confidentthat that's the case.
Either way, though, I thinkit's really fascinating to think
about how astrology predatesastronomy in a lot of cases, or
at least came up alongside it,and as the scientific pieces of
astronomy kind of took off, thatbecame much more obviously is
(29:57):
like a totally valid scientificlanguage and skill set, which is
true and correct.
But it's just funny to think ofa time when all that was
different, right, and they werethought of as really similar.
And then, through both theintroduction of certain
religions and the evolution ofpolitics and, of course, the
rise in science and theunderstanding of true science
(30:18):
behind the natural world, it allhas kind of shifted and fallen
into different places.
But I think it's kind of coolthat it's still here, like
people are still studyingastrology and playing with
astrology and using astrologyand offering services, paid
services, right to read yourbirth charts in a really big way
, which is just I don't knowreally.
(30:39):
It's really quite something.
I think in a lot of cases thepeople around me at least, right
and I know that's a veryspecific population, but the
people around me, I would say,are much more into things like
tarot and astrology than thingslike religion, and maybe we're
in kind of another era right nowof a deprioritization of
religion, which has been theruler for so long of so many
(31:02):
different cultures and kind ofthis rise in the spiritual and
people who maybe don't identifywith religion or weren't brought
up in a religion that theyreally connect to anymore found
through astrology or tarot otherways to bring deeper meaning
into their lives, right?
Or other ways to kind of try toconnect with the universe in a
bigger way, and I feel like forme that's very much what it is
(31:23):
right, or other ways to kind oftry to connect with the universe
in a bigger way, and I feellike for me, that's very much
what it is right.
Again, I don't necessarilybelieve in the divine power of
tarot cards or any kind of cardsor astrology, but I practice
those things almost logically asa way to meditate or reflect on
myself and as a way to try tofind some sort of spirituality
(31:43):
or connection or meditation tosomething more than myself, or
to look outside of myself, and Ithink that's pretty ethereal.
But I think a lot of peoplearound me might feel similar to
that.
You know, at the end of the day, we're all looking for
something more, something deeper.
Anyway, that is my deep dive orpretty shallow dive, I would say
, but deep dive into the historyof astrology, hopefully in an
(32:06):
accessible, high level way,because, again, there's so much
here.
You could have episodes andepisodes on each of these
cultures, right, and theirinterpretations of astrology and
the stars and how that impacttheir day to day lives and the
Mayans and the Aztecs and theancient Chinese people, like
it's just so much to get into.
But you know, at Lunatics, weare here to offer high-level,
(32:27):
digestible insights into thesekind of big, sweeping topics.
I think, if anything else, thatI hope people who practice
astrology and didn't know a lotof this, or people who don't,
can kind of come away from thisepisode with an understanding
for its historic impact.
Right, it really has shaped alot of culture and society over
thousands of years, which is notsomething that's true of a lot
(32:49):
of things that we talk abouthere.
You know, tarot cards started inthe 1500s.
Astrology started thousands andthousands of years ago.
There's a massive difference,even though those things are
thought of, I think, prettysimilarly today.
There's a really rich historyhere which we've only scratched
the surface of.
As always, thank you all somuch for listening.
Stay spooky, stay safe and wewill talk to you soon.
(33:11):
Bye.
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Lunatics Radio Hourpodcast.
I am Abbey Branker and I amincredibly excited for today's
topic.
I am going to be talking to yousolo today, but again, rest
assured that Alan is alive andwell and yelling to me about how
Nostradamus is a hack from theother room.
Ever since I was a very youngchild, I had a deep fascination
(00:40):
with astrology and my personalzodiac sign, which is Taurus.
During childhood, my mom wouldpoint out to me all the time
that my stubbornness was reallya direct result of being a
Taurus, which I'm proud to say Ithink I still exemplify.
But from horoscopes and birthcharts to Mercury and retrograde
, today we're going to talkabout some of the history of
astrology dating back thousandsof years.
(01:02):
In some ways, astrology hasshifted and evolved over the
centuries, and in others it'sstill oddly similar to its
origin, and I am not anastrologer nor a historian.
So, as always, this informationwas validated by research.
But if we missed anything orleft anything big out, you know
where to find us.
Today's sources are a TimeMagazine article by Olivia B
(01:23):
Waxman when Do Zodiac Signs ComeFrom?
An academic paper from RichardFitzpatrick as part of the
physics department of theUniversity of Texas, austin.
Ptolemy's Almagest Fact andFiction, a National Geographic
article by Kathleen Caruso.
What Are the Ancient Origins ofyour Zodiac Sign?
And 14 Famous Predictions byNostradamus by Robert Johnson.
(01:44):
Your zodiac sign and 14 famouspredictions by Nostradamus by
Robert Johnson.
And I hate to be that person,but I'm literally pulling the
definition of astrology fromMerriam-Webster.
I want to set a really clearbaseline for what we're talking
about today.
So, according to the dictionary, astrology is the divination of
the supposed influence of thestars and planets on human
affairs and terrestrial eventsby their positions and aspects,
(02:05):
and the zodiac is defined as animaginary band in the heavens,
centered on the ecliptic, thatencompasses the apparent paths
of all of the planets and isdivided into 12 constellations
or signs, each taken forastrological purposes to extend
30 degrees of longitude.
I think a lot of the times wethink of the word zodiac as the
name of the belief in signs, butat its definition, zodiac
(02:28):
refers to the belt-shaped regionor band in the sky that has
been divided into these 12 equalparts, each representing a
different constellation.
The word zodiac comes from theGreek word meaning circle of
little animals.
A horoscope is defined as quotea diagram of the relative
positions of planets and signsof the zodiac at a specific time
(02:48):
, as at one's birth, for use byastrologers in inferring
individual character andpersonality traits and in
foretelling events of a person'slife, or an astrological
forecast.
End quote.
So what I'm aiming to do todayis to really take astrology, the
zodiac, horoscopes, butgenerally the practice of
astrology.
So much of astrology is prettyintense math and equations that
(03:28):
I certainly don't have the typeof brain to understand or to
communicate to you guys directly.
So we're talking about reallythe history right today and how
it's evolved through differentcultures, where it stands now,
famous astrologers, kind of funhistory.
But you should know thatthere's astrologers out there
who could talk in a reallyin-depth, clear way about the
math behind astrology and Idon't want to deny that.
(03:50):
Whether you believe in itseffectiveness as a system or not
, the system itself, right, isvery much embedded within the
science of the planets and howthey move, and we're going to
talk about how that's evolvedover the years.
So, like I've said a few timesnow, astrology dates back
thousands of years.
In Mesopotamia, patterns in thesky were observed and then
linked to earthly events likeharvests or conflicts and wars,
(04:13):
things like that.
In ancient China, eclipses andsunspots would be studied to
make predictions for the emperor, though it's important to note
that this practice was appliedonly to him, no one else, right?
It's not like today, wheneveryone has a personal
understanding of astrology yourown zodiac sign.
At this point in time, in China, astrology was only for the
emperor, so everything that wasinterpreted by the priests of
(04:36):
the time were to advise theemperor alone.
And again, this might seempretty different to how we
interpret astrology today, but Iactually think it makes a lot
of sense.
In eras where the lower classesfelt like they did not
personally control much of theirlives, astrology would have
felt pretty pointless.
It also speaks to the power ofthe emperor, I think, and the
(04:56):
mentality that the one leader isso important.
Even the planets and stars hadmessages to guide this one
person, right?
It feels almost biblical inthat way.
Chinese astrology is, I think,the astrological system outside
of Western astrology that mostpeople would be familiar with,
because it uses this 12-yearcycle and it assigns an animal
(05:18):
based on your birth year, right?
So, for example, 2025 is theyear of the snake.
I think I was born in the yearof the horse.
I think people generally kindof know their Chinese astrology
animal.
Different animals areassociated with different traits
, similar to the Western zodiacsystem, right, but this time
it's by year instead of by birthdate and time.
Vedic or Indian astrology isalmost 3,000 years old.
(05:40):
Vedic astrology uses actualstar constellations.
Birth charts in this system arereferred to as kundalis, and
astrology also incorporateskarma and dharma.
In Vedic astrology there are 12signs, which differ from the
Western signs but have somesimilarities.
Vedic astrology also includeslunar mansions, which are
(06:00):
moon-based constellations.
One of my favorite types ofastrology is Mayan and Aztec
astrology, because there's stillevidence of it in Mexico and
South America in the form ofpyramids, and I've been lucky
enough to have visited a few ofthese sites in the last few
years, both in Mexico, and it'sincredibly profound and
impressive.
I really cannot stress thatenough.
(06:21):
One site that I went to wasoutside of Mexico City and then
Chichen.
Itza is about an hour or twofrom Tulum.
Mayans were both astrologers andastronomers.
They had the ability and theskills to predict planetary
events with precision Even tothis day.
For example, their pyramidswork as intended when built, so
some of these pyramids that theybuilt worked as calendars and
(06:43):
they still hold true to today.
So during an eclipse, forexample, a shadow this is on a
pyramid in Chichen Itza.
A shadow appears along thesteps of one side of the pyramid
, depicting serpents.
The Mayan calendar was a sacred260-day calendar and we
actually have a Mayan calendarthat we got from the pyramids
(07:03):
that I'm recording in front oftoday.
But personal astrology for theMayans combined your birth date
with one of these 13 uniquetones and that combination would
come up with a unique readingfor you.
The Babylonians and Sumerianspracticed astrology dating back
to the second millennium BCE andthey would use the Venus tablet
(07:23):
of Amisaduka to track wheregods were in the sky.
It was used as a way tointerpret messages and omens
from the gods, but only thequalified could read the stars,
so typically priests wereactually in charge of
interpreting the celestial.
Quoting from the Time articleby Olivia B Waxman, quote this
tablet, which is dated to thefirst millennium BC and tracks
(07:46):
the motion of Venus, is one ofthe earliest pieces of what's
been called Babylonian planetaryomens.
The ancient Egyptianscontributed the idea that
patterns of stars made upconstellations through which the
sun appears to move at specifictimes during the year end.
Quote.
There was also the Enuma AnuEnil, or a series of 70
(08:07):
cuneiform tablets that containedaround 7,000 celestial omens.
Some historians believe thatAlexander the Great actually
played a fairly big part in thehistory of astrology.
He conquered Egypt around 330BCE and historically the Greeks
had been very focused onmathematics and science.
So when cultures clashed here,it's generally thought that the
(08:30):
Greeks brought the math and thestructure to the Egyptian
astrology, and it sort of reallyformed the precursor to how we
think about astrology in moderntimes.
Quoting from the NationalGeographic article by Catherine
Caruso, quote the Babyloniansdeveloped 12 astrological signs,
some of which were laterincorporated into the Western
Zodiac.
However, it was the ancientGreeks who named these 12 star
(08:53):
signs after constellations andlinked them to specific dates
based on their alignment withthe sun's orbit.
These signs are Aries, taurus,gemini, cancer, leo, virgo,
libra, scorpius, sagittarius,capricornius, aquarius and
Pisces.
Despite the Greeks'contributions to astrology,
horoscopes were not prevalent inancient Greece.
(09:15):
Instead, the focus was on usingthe stars to connect with the
gods through divination.
Jumping ahead in the quote Overtime, babylonian astrology,
which interpreted celestialevents, merged with Greek
divination practices.
This blending led to thedevelopment of more personalized
horoscopes we see today.
End quote.
The zodiac became reallypopular in the Roman era, based
(09:36):
on concepts from Babylonianastrology and ancient Greek
astrology, often referred to asHellenistic astrology.
So I want to take a moment totalk through some important
astrological texts throughouthistory and this is different
from astronomy, right, as ofcourse we know but I'm really
just focusing on texts that feelimportant for astrological
reasons, but it is a thin line.
(09:58):
In 350 BCE, aristotle wrote Onthe Heavens.
On the Heavens lays outAristotle's theories on the
universe.
He defines types of motion awayfrom a center, towards a center
and around a center.
He talks about how earth andwater the elements are heavy and
thus move towards the center ofthe earth, while fire and water
(10:19):
are light and move away.
A lot of it is also about theelements and these four elements
really being the buildingblocks in a lot of ways.
Notably, aristotle starts todefine gravity in this book when
he explains that the heaviestelements fall.
He also lays out that the earthspins around a pair of poles
and he notices that the spinningis a consistent speed.
(10:40):
All pretty major revelations.
He defines the elements andnotes that there must be a
finite amount of earth, air,fire and water, because there is
no way to make more of thoseelements.
He also defines heavy and light.
Ertothenes of Cyrene is creditedwith most accurately defining
earth's radius, around 200 BCE.
(11:01):
And while this may seem heavilymathematical again because of
the calculations that go intoastrology it's actually quite
important.
Hipparchus of Nicaea iscredited with explaining the
seasons through astronomy,around 150 BCE.
In the second century, claudiusPtolemy wrote the Almagest, a
mathematical text on the pathsof the stars and the planets.
(11:23):
It's thought to be one of themost important astrological
texts from history.
For one thing, it solidifiedthe belief that Earth was the
center of the universe and thatthe moon and the sun orbited
around the Earth.
It became a main source oftruth for Greek astronomy and it
was accepted as fact for nearly1,200 years across the medieval
European, islamic and Byzantinecultures, until Copernicus.
(11:47):
Claudius Ptolemy also wroteTetra Bilbos, in which he
created the foundation formodern astrology and zodiac
signs.
This is where many trace theorigin of personal horoscope
reading to, but generally peoplewere reading personal
horoscopes for a very, very longtime before this.
I do want to take a moment totalk about Claudius Ptolemy,
(12:07):
because he is so important tounderstanding the history of
astrology.
So Ptolemy was born around 100AD we don't know exactly when or
where, and because he had aLatin name, it's generally
assumed that he was a Romancitizen, but his last name was
Greek.
Beyond his work on astrologicaltheory, he also spent his time
studying music theory, math andgeology.
(12:28):
He died in the 160s or 70s inAlexandria, egypt, as part of
the Roman Empire.
Between the 8th and 13thcenturies, muslim scholars
translated the Roman and Greektexts to Arabic.
Islamic astrology had a heavyfocus on math.
Many astrologers were alsoastronomers.
Astrology had a heavy focus onmath.
(12:49):
Many astrologers were alsoastronomers.
Astrology wasn't just used forpersonal predictions, but also
for medicine and politics.
In the Middle Ages, astrologybecame incredibly widespread in
its practice, especially acrossWestern Europe.
So it kind of has gone throughthese different phases and dips
and flows in popularity, right,but okay, so Middle Ages, it's
becoming a widespread practiceagain, really talking about
(13:11):
Western Europe here.
So, quoting again from theNational Geographic article
quote during the Middle Ages,astrology was widespread and
significantly influencedeveryday decisions.
It was practiced not only bydoctors, astronomers and other
scientific professionals, but italso played a crucial role in
the development of alchemy, aproto-scientific precursor to
(13:32):
chemistry.
So just pausing here to say howimportant astrology has been to
sciences, right, it reallybroke away at some point and
became coined as a pseudoscience, and I'm not saying that's
wrong at all, but it's reallyfascinating that all of these
things kind of came up together.
Right Back to the quote.
In 14th century Europe,astrologers were commonly found
at royal courts, where theyregularly provided personal
(13:54):
horoscopes to monarchs.
This practice was so prevalentthat Charles V of France even
commissioned the translation ofastrological texts.
However, astrology's reputationshifted during the 15th century
witch trials in England, whereit became associated with
sorcery and paganism.
As a result, some monarchsbegan to distance themselves
(14:15):
from individual horoscopes.
End quote.
When we really talk aboutanything on the podcast and we
trace back the history of athing, we end up talking about a
lot of these same cultures, ofcourse, because they've been so
influential throughout historythe Egyptians, the Babylonians,
mesopotamia, of course, ancientGreek and Rome.
But it's so fascinating to seehow different things pull away
(14:36):
and how different things arecondemned.
Right, and so interestingly,astrology is pulled out as
something bad during the witchtrials in Europe, but astronomy
or other things aren't.
And obviously there's adifference between those things,
right, because one isdivination and another is pure
science.
But you start to see this pullduring this time period in the
(14:57):
14th century and the separation.
Whereas previously all thesethings kind of came up together,
right Now there's kind of aseparation, and part of that is
certainly that some of thesethings are based on science and
there's a scientific revolutiongoing on, but of course there's
also political and religiousreasons, right, something that
is purely not Christian goesthrough a different phase and
(15:19):
era of being, you know,condemned as something pagan,
right, like the quote calls out.
But by the Renaissance there'sa resurgence of astrology.
This time period reallysolidified astrology as a
personal and, most importantly,accessible practice.
So where, kind of before theRenaissance, astrology needed to
be done with an astrologer or ascientist in a lot of ways
(15:41):
right to really understand?
During the Renaissance, a lotof the barriers for the everyday
person went away because chartsand calendars and different
tools that were really easy tounderstand were developed and so
the everyday person couldunderstand their zodiac signs.
Quoting again from the NationalGeographic article, quote While
the Western Zodiac is widelyrecognized, other cultural
(16:03):
practices have also shapedastrology worldwide.
In India, vedic astrologyincorporates ancient Hindu
beliefs and practices, offeringa unique perspective on
celestial influences.
Chinese astrology, rooted inTaoist philosophy, assigns
animal signs based on birthyears, influencing cultural
practices and societal beliefs.
(16:24):
Nostradamus was born in Decemberof 1503.
He was a French astrologer,seer and physician and, of
course, he famously publishedhis book of prophecies in 1555.
Nostradamus claimed that hispredictions were based on
astrology, mainly judicialastrology.
Many of his predictions came inthe form of quatrains or four
lines.
For example and these are alittle more poetic maybe than
(16:47):
you expected quote the younglion will overcome the older one
on the field of combat in asingle battle.
He will pierce his eyes througha golden cage, two wounds made
one.
Then he dies a cruel death.
End.
Quote Many believe this endedup being a prediction of the
death of Henry II, because in1559, king Henry II of France
(17:08):
faced off against Comte deMontgomery on a field of combat
and both had lions on theirshields.
The king was hit with two wounds, and one through his eye, just
as the poem predicted.
He then survived for 10 daysbefore he passed.
Certainly a cruel death.
Another example this one isabout the fire of London.
Certainly a cruel death.
Another example this one isabout the fire of London.
(17:30):
Quote the blood of the justwill be demanded of London burnt
by fire in the year 66.
The ancient lady will fall fromher high place and many of the
same sect will be killed.
End quote.
In the year 1666, a small firestarted in a bakery in London
and burned on for three days,completely decimating the city.
And finally, world War II andHitler.
Quote from the depths of thewest of Europe.
(17:51):
A young child will be born ofpoor people, he who by his
tongue will seduce a great troopand fame will increase towards
the realm of the east.
End quote.
And also pairing that with asecond one quote beasts
ferocious with hunger will crossrivers.
The greater part of thebattlefield will be against
Heister.
In a cage of iron will thegreat one be drawn when the
(18:13):
child of Germany observesnothing?
End quote.
And the atomic bomb quote nearthe gates and within two cities,
there will be scourges the likeof which was never seen Famine
within plague, people put out bysteel crying to the great
immortal God for relief.
End quote.
There are many, many examples ofthese predictions by
Nostradamus.
(18:33):
Some are more on the nosefeeling than others.
Some, you know, feel okay,there's some direct facts here,
like the year 1966.
Others just generally maybefeel pretty vague.
And though his language cansometimes feel specific, if not
poetic and flowery.
It's generally believed thatmuch of his work is based on
ancient end-of-world biblicalprophecies.
(18:55):
So again though, astrology isin full swing today.
After the Renaissance, itdipped again in popularity with
the rise of the scientificrevolution right.
So another reason that it kindof got pulled back.
In the 1600s, william Lilly, aBritish astrologer, was born.
But beyond just being anastrologer, lilly had a really
(19:19):
interesting life that I want tobriefly discuss.
He was born as the son of afarmer in the countryside, and
he traveled to London to be aservant.
But seven years after startinghis employment, he ended up
marrying his former master'swidow, which is an insane move
and allowed him to one, becomerich and, two, study astrology.
He went on to publish manytexts on astrology, including
(19:39):
one called Christian Astrology,which is considered a seminal
work of Western astrology.
By 1659, he was selling about30,000 copies a year of his
annual almanac.
Cherio was an Irish astrologerborn in 1866.
Cherio is a stage name takenfrom Cheriomancy or palmistry,
(19:59):
and I love a historic astrologer, a tarot reader or general
fortune teller that served therich and famous, and Chirio was
just that.
So he actually learnedpalmistry, astrology and
numerology in India.
He had been in Bombay for quitea bit of time as a kid and
really kind of took up with oneteacher and mentor.
Similar to Nostradamus, he alsomade predictions on world
(20:21):
events Around the same time,evangeline Adams rose to
popularity as an Americanastrologer in New York City.
So she ran a popular servicewhere she would read people's
birth and natal charts.
But she gained even morepopularity after she was able to
successfully defend thevalidity of her business in
court.
And this was because she wasarrested three times while
(20:43):
practicing in New York City,once in 1911, 1914, and 1923.
And just as a side note, ourfriend Marie Carter has an
excellent book called Mortimerand the Witches which is not
about astrology per se but it isall about fortune tellers,
specifically female fortunetellers in New York City around
this time and even a bit earlier, and the perils and the life
(21:05):
that they live.
And there's a lot of comedy andlightness in the book.
But it's also really areflection of a dark time and
fortune telling astrology thesekinds of professions became in a
lot of cases the only way for awoman to break out financially
right.
That was the options where youcould marry somebody rich, you
could work in a factory, be aseamstress, something like that,
(21:28):
or you could be an astrologerand really work for yourself.
So highly recommend Mortimerand the Witches by Marie Carter.
But Evangeline Adams alsoreleased many books on astrology
and, interestingly, occultistAlistair Crowley actually ghost
wrote them.
She also contributed to hiswork the general practice of
astrology.
But eventually theirrelationship became sullied and
(21:51):
a copyright battle ensued.
She was also met with criticismfrom skeptics because despite
several successful predictionsto the stock market, she didn't
quite understand the economiclandscape enough to make clear
predictions.
In 1930, british astrologer R HNaylor published a horoscope for
Princess Margaret in the SundayExpress.
Naylor used her birth chart topredict that she would have an
(22:14):
eventful life and that events oftremendous importance to the
royal family and the nationwould happen near Princess
Margaret's seventh birthday.
Soon after the article waspublished, naylor started
consistently publishing weeklycolumns with birth chart
information for birthdays thatfell during the next week.
The column was called what theStars Foretell.
Other newspapers were inspiredand started running horoscopes
(22:36):
and columns, even the BostonGlobe in the United States, and
in the 80s many major newspapersalso incorporated astrology
phone lines, which I did notknow about, where readers would
call for personalized readings.
I sort of wish that stillexisted today.
Could you imagine calling theNew York Times for your personal
horoscope for the day?
And finally, jean Dixon gainednotoriety when she predicted the
(22:59):
assassination of JFK In the May13, 1956 issue of Parade
magazine.
Dixon wrote that the 1960election would go to a Democrat
and that the election would bedominated by labor.
She continued that the Democratwould either die in office or
be assassinated, but notnecessarily in his first term.
The Jean Dixon effect is a termthat came from John Allen
(23:21):
Paulus at Temple University, whopointed out that Dixon and her
followers seemed to only promoteher accurate predictions and
ignore her many, many falsepredictions.
Dixon died of cardiac arrest in1997, and before passing away
she is said to have uttered thewords I knew this would happen.
Okay, so we talked about thehistory of astrology famous
astrologers but let's take amoment to talk about modern
(23:44):
belief.
Modern personal astrology hasexpanded largely from just
knowing your one zodiac signright when I was a kid I think
it was like, okay, you're aTaurus, I'm a Libra, whatever to
complex birth charts withdifferent planets, nodes and
houses.
And while this always existed,I think it's become much more
common for the general personthe general, you know, amateur
(24:05):
astrologist to understand all ofthat.
So you can visit many differentfree websites to get a birth
chart by inputting your birthdate, time and location.
So think of a birth chart or anatal chart as really a snapshot
of the sky the moment that youwere born, for the location that
you were born and I've heardrecently that there's like about
a five minute buffer.
(24:26):
You know, things don't reallychange that dramatically in the
course of five minutes, right?
So it's really this map of thecelestial above you the moment
that you came into existence.
Now, all that's well and goodand scientific, right, but you
have to then take the leap ofbelieving that this arrangement
of planets and stars has somesort of power or influence over
(24:46):
you and your personality andyour tendencies, which I think
is a big leap and I'd have notnecessarily taken it right,
right?
So there's sort of like twothreads of astrology One is your
personality and then the otheris the events and things that
are going to happen based on theplanets right, and the movement
of the planets during a periodof time.
So, for instance, when you'rereading a horoscope, right, it
(25:08):
could be like ah, saturn movesinto the house of whatever you
know, you're going to have a badweek in love.
That kind of thing is really areflection of the movement of
the planets.
One phrase you may have heard isMercury in retrograde.
So about three or four times ayear, mercury appears to move
backwards in the sky as theearth orbits the sun at a
(25:28):
different speed.
Many think that the time whilemercury is in retrograde is
especially fraught with disaster.
Generally, believers think thatit impacts communication,
travel and technology.
But it also, I think, hasbecome in the last few years
like just this phrase, likeMercury's in retrograde.
You know, or is I'm having areally bad week?
Is Mercury in retrograde?
It's just kind of like thoughtof as this time, this universal
(25:52):
time when things are horrible.
You know whether it's littlethings, like stepping in a
puddle, or like big, big lifethings.
It's kind of like, well,mercury's in retrograde.
But this is just one example ofan astrological event that has
some sort of belief orinterpretation paired with it.
Right, this is really whatastrology is.
Modern day astrology oftencombines the general zodiac with
(26:13):
a framework of 12 houses,planetary placements and aspects
.
So again, that's really like a401 class where I have very
little understanding.
I've had my birth chart donemany times and it's very
interesting to sit down with anastrologer and take it all in.
I love doing it, but I thinkit's quite complicated to grasp
because there's so much, it's solarge and also there's so much
(26:37):
science and kind of likeastronomy involved in it.
So of course there's websitesthat will do this for you now,
but you still have to kind oflike astronomy involved in it.
So of course there's websitesthat will do this for you now,
but you still have to kind ofunderstand how, what all these
different things mean.
So I think, as a way to expandupon just being like I'm a
Taurus, but to keep it a littlebit more contained than doing a
full birth chart, a phrase youmight also hear is the big three
(26:59):
of astrology, which refers tosomeone's sun, moon and
ascendant or rising sign.
So your general zodiac sign isactually your sun sign.
So Taurus is my sun sign.
So I just popped in my birthdate time into cafeastrologycom,
which is a free website whereyou can do that.
So my sun sign is Taurus, mymoon sign is Capricorn and my
(27:21):
rising sign is Libra.
Generally, the sun signrepresents kind of who you are
right, the very core of who youare.
The moon sign, though, kind ofgoverns your inner feelings and
how you respond to your emotions, and then your rising sign is
really how you present yourselfto the world, right?
So there's sort of like who youare generally, who you are on
(27:44):
the inside and how youremotional center works and then
how the world perceives you.
There's also a reallyinteresting societal shift when
it comes to gender roles inastrology.
I noticed when I wasresearching some of the most
famous astrologers from history,so many of them were men, the
vast majority right.
Some doubled as mathematiciansand scientists, physicians,
(28:07):
geologists, musicians in somecases, depending on the era, or
priests, right, specialspiritual advisors to emperors
and kings.
So it's quite prestigious rightIn a lot of cases.
But now generally astrology isthought of as a pseudoscience at
best, and even though it's hadthis massive resurgence and just
this increase in followingduring my lifetime and even
(28:29):
starting right before mylifetime, I think it's still
quite polarizing.
It also certainly skews femaleand non-binary, I would say, and
no kings or presidents wouldopenly admit to using astrology
to make any decisions and I'mcertainly not saying they should
, to be clear, but I'm justreflecting on the evolution of
astrology, and though it'sshifted quite significantly,
it's still very much present.
(28:51):
I really think of it now assomething that comes up.
Not that I'm on dating apps, ofcourse, but my friends who are
right where guys will have,people will have in their
profiles you know, roll my eyesif you ask me my birth date, or
you know my my, for my birthdate and location to get my
birth chart read to understandour compatibility.
It has this kind of like.
(29:11):
A lot of people have this chipon their shoulder.
I think about astrology you'rekind of like either in it or
you're not, and I certainlydabble I I'm not sure that I'm a
huge believer in it one way orthe other, though I do think
sometimes it's pretty fun.
Again, the same way, I kind ofthink about the paranormal to
believe that I live in a worldwhere there's kind of deeper
meaning and you know deeperpowers that be, and hell yeah,
(29:34):
I'd love to live in a worldwhere the planets kind of rule
everything.
That sounds pretty fun, but I'mnot certainly confident that
that's the case.
But I'm not certainly confidentthat that's the case.
Either way, though, I thinkit's really fascinating to think
about how astrology predatesastronomy in a lot of cases, or
at least came up alongside it,and as the scientific pieces of
astronomy kind of took off, thatbecame much more obviously is
(29:57):
like a totally valid scientificlanguage and skill set, which is
true and correct.
But it's just funny to think ofa time when all that was
different, right, and they werethought of as really similar.
And then, through both theintroduction of certain
religions and the evolution ofpolitics and, of course, the
rise in science and theunderstanding of true science
(30:18):
behind the natural world, it allhas kind of shifted and fallen
into different places.
But I think it's kind of coolthat it's still here, like
people are still studyingastrology and playing with
astrology and using astrologyand offering services, paid
services, right to read yourbirth charts in a really big way
, which is just I don't knowreally.
(30:39):
It's really quite something.
I think in a lot of cases thepeople around me at least, right
and I know that's a veryspecific population, but the
people around me, I would say,are much more into things like
tarot and astrology than thingslike religion, and maybe we're
in kind of another era right nowof a deprioritization of
religion, which has been theruler for so long of so many
(31:02):
different cultures and kind ofthis rise in the spiritual and
people who maybe don't identifywith religion or weren't brought
up in a religion that theyreally connect to anymore found
through astrology or tarot otherways to bring deeper meaning
into their lives, right?
Or other ways to kind of try toconnect with the universe in a
bigger way, and I feel like forme that's very much what it is
(31:23):
right, or other ways to kind oftry to connect with the universe
in a bigger way, and I feellike for me, that's very much
what it is right.
Again, I don't necessarilybelieve in the divine power of
tarot cards or any kind of cardsor astrology, but I practice
those things almost logically asa way to meditate or reflect on
myself and as a way to try tofind some sort of spirituality
(31:43):
or connection or meditation tosomething more than myself, or
to look outside of myself, and Ithink that's pretty ethereal.
But I think a lot of peoplearound me might feel similar to
that.
You know, at the end of the day, we're all looking for
something more, something deeper.
Anyway, that is my deep dive orpretty shallow dive, I would say
, but deep dive into the historyof astrology, hopefully in an
(32:06):
accessible, high level way,because, again, there's so much
here.
You could have episodes andepisodes on each of these
cultures, right, and theirinterpretations of astrology and
the stars and how that impacttheir day to day lives and the
Mayans and the Aztecs and theancient Chinese people, like
it's just so much to get into.
But you know, at Lunatics, weare here to offer high-level,
(32:27):
digestible insights into thesekind of big, sweeping topics.
I think, if anything else, thatI hope people who practice
astrology and didn't know a lotof this, or people who don't,
can kind of come away from thisepisode with an understanding
for its historic impact.
Right, it really has shaped alot of culture and society over
thousands of years, which is notsomething that's true of a lot
(32:49):
of things that we talk abouthere.
You know, tarot cards started inthe 1500s.
Astrology started thousands andthousands of years ago.
There's a massive difference,even though those things are
thought of, I think, prettysimilarly today.
There's a really rich historyhere which we've only scratched
the surface of.
As always, thank you all somuch for listening.
Stay spooky, stay safe and wewill talk to you soon.
(33:11):
Bye.
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