October 7, 2025 • 45 mins
Abby and Alan sit down to discuss the history and production of the first four films in the Friday the 13th horror franchise. In part one we start with the first four films; Friday the 13th (1980), Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981), Friday the 13th Part 3 (1982), Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter (1983).
From Kevin Bacon to Corey Feldman, there is a lot to discuss between the first four movies in this series.
Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord. Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode,
a long overdue episode of theLunatics Radio Hour Podcast.
My name is Abby Brinker, and I'msitting here with Alan Kudan.
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
Hello.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
And listen, we'll address the elephant in the
room.
We know we've been a littledelinquent behind the scenes,
and uh it's been a little bitlonger than we anticipated since
the last time we recorded, butwe are so thrilled to be back,
and we beg your forgivenessbecause there was some big life
things happening behind thescenes and we had to shift our
focus briefly.
(00:50):
But we are so thrilled to beback today in October with our
big Halloween series, and uhwe're really excited to share
spooky Halloween time with you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
I'm very excited for this.
We've literally been talkingabout this for years.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
For years, yes.
And I want to just shout outright off the bat and say that
this episode, the series, isbrought to you by Kellogg's.
I wish.
Why you wish?
Because then we'd have asponsor.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
They're evil.
The cornflakes were originallydeveloped as part of an
anti-masturbation campaign.
Mr.
Kellogg himself made cornflakesbecause the bland taste was
supposed to curb lustfuldesires.
SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
I don't know about you, but I am constantly eating
cereal and getting lustfuldesires.
Yeah, that's fascinating.
What a weird world we live in.
No, what I was going to say isthat not only is this episode
and series not sponsored byanybody, that it's dedicated to
our new friend Austin, who'sbeen a longtime listener of the
(01:55):
podcast.
And Alan and I had the absolutepleasure of meeting Austin in
March for the first time inperson.
And Austin has said to us a fewtimes how much he really loved
our Halloween series that we dida few years ago around this
time, where we watched everysingle Halloween film, which I
have to say was a really jumpytime in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Why jumpy?
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
I feel like it, even though Halloween is my favorite
franchise, it really got into myhead.
Really?
Yeah.
Huh.
But anyway, this is dedicated toAustin, and we wanted to
recreate it.
The Halloween episodes, I think,are episodes like 87 and 88.
We also did Nightmare on ElmStreet, but Abby.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
You haven't even announced what we're doing.
Well, people have read thetitle.
Not everyone can read.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Okay, all this is to say we've done some of the major
franchises around this time.
We're picking up this idea thisyear with Friday the 13th.
And so Alan and I are watchingevery single Friday the 13th
film in the franchise.
We are researching the historyof the production.
We're trying our best to piecetogether the storyline, which is
(02:58):
harder than you'd expect, andwe're here to talk about it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
No, I disagree.
I think it's actually easier.
Unlike the Halloween movies,there is a pretty coherent
thread, at least through themajority of the franchise.
SPEAKER_00 (03:15):
Alright, well, let's see if you still say that when
we're done.
So we're gonna break this upbecause there's 12 films, and
today we're gonna talk about thefirst four because those sort of
create a complete set, and thefifth reboots the series.
So today we're just talkingabout the first four films.
There are, of course, spoilersin this, but you know what?
I think it's still a fun episodeto listen to, and you could
(03:37):
still go watch the movies, oryou could pause, watch the
movies, and come back.
Of course, that's up to you.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Or you can pause, watch, pause, watch.
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
Yeah, you could do that.
We'll make it very clear.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
That'd be crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Let's acknowledge our sources.
There is a Vox article by AsiaRomano.
Friday the 13th isn't unlucky.
It's a meme disguised assuperstition, a time article
simply titled Friday the 13th byTime Staff, a National
Geographic article by BeckyLittle, Busting the Myth of
Friday the 13th and the KnightsTemplar, the entire Friday the
(04:07):
13th story finally explained byCez and Kohler on Looper.com,
and a mental floss article byMatthew Jackson, 17 Surprising
Facts About Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
We will also be citing the movies.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
Yes.
Good call out, Alan.
Before we get into the historyof this iconic film franchise,
and I'd only seen the first few,so it's been really fun,
actually, to watch through allthese because they get wilder
and wilder as time goes on.
I also want to talk about thehistory of the date, Friday the
13th, as this superstitious datein history and why it has that
(04:41):
reputation.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
I have a question.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:44):
So after watching a lot of Friday the 13th movies, I
still do not understand why theseries is called Friday the
13th.
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
That is a great question, which we will address.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Will we?
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
When?
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
Today.
Similar to superstitions likewalking under ladders, breaking
a mirror, even seeing a blackcat, right?
Folks have lived in fear of thenumber 13 for literally
thousands of years.
There are many differenthistoric paths that lead us to
the superstition of this day.
So the background here isn'tgoing to be totally linear, but
hopefully you will get therewith me.
(05:17):
So, first, according to Norsemythology, the number 13
developed a bad reputation whenthe god Loki crashed a dinner
party with twelve other gods,making, of course, Loki the
thirteenth god.
At this party, Loki wasresponsible for coordinating the
shooting of the Norse godBaldur, was the son of Odin and
Frig.
(05:37):
He was thought of as just andhonorable, like an overall good
god.
A shining beautiful beacon ofgood and beauty, which made his
death devastating to everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Everyone called him Baldur the Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
Did they really?
SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
That's nice.
After he was shot by Hor,H-O-O-R, the world went dark
according to mythology.
So that's one angle, right?
The Norse angle.
There is a somewhat similardinner party theory in
Christianity.
According to claims, there were13 guests at the Last Supper,
Jesus and his twelve apostles.
This dinner took place on aThursday, followed the next day
(06:12):
by the crucifixion on GoodFriday.
But there are so many otherinstances of thirteen being
unlucky throughout variouscultures across the globe.
So for example, a year with 13full moons instead of the usual
twelve caused problems for themonks who were creating early
calendars.
There are also connections hereto ancient calendars, like the
Mayan's calendar, 13th Buchan,which was associated with the
(06:34):
2012 apocalypse phenomenon.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Whatever happened with that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
However, it's also broadly believed that there is a
definitive reason that Fridaythe 13th has become a cursed
day, though it's not entirelyaccurate.
It dates back to a Friday the13th in October of 1307.
On this date, there was a raidon the Knights Templar that
mostly killed all of them, soalmost nobody survived.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Who killed whom?
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Great question, Alan.
So the raid was actually orderedby King Philip IV of France,
also known as Philip the Fair,even though this is not a good
example of that.
So Philip had sent orders,secret orders, I may add, uh, to
arrest all members of theKnights Templar simultaneously.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
I think I remember this from Assassin's Creed.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
Yes, I remember that too.
At this time, the Templars hadbeen accused of heresy
essentially and corruption, andalso devil worship.
We actually talked about thisraid in the Black Mass episode
that I did with Miranda Warzella while ago.
That was a good episode if youwant to hear more about this
raid.
There's a bit more informationon it there.
But anyway, that's why Philipkind of there was these rumors
(07:40):
that the Knights Templar werecorrupt, that they were bad boys
and they needed to be broken up.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
So what does that have to do with the Friday the
13th?
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Again, the idea is that this raid happened on
Friday the 13th in October of1307.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
And Jason Voorhees was a member of the Knights
Templar?
SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
Listen, stick with me, okay?
I told you this was not going tobe linear.
But I'm talking about theKnights Templar thing because
when you do look up, like whatis the history of Friday the
13th, often the differenthistorical sources are citing
the Knights Templar raid as areason.
And of course the Last Supper.
Finally, there's also a fairlycomplicated theory connected to
the Babylonian Code ofHammurabi.
The Code of Hammurabi is a legaltext that was written in the
(08:19):
mid-1700s BC.
It's one of the oldest and bestpreserved texts that still exist
from ancient Babylon.
It was composed on a combinationof stone and steel and currently
sits at the Louvre in Paris.
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabidoes not include the number 13
in the list of laws.
Sort of similar to not includinga 13th floor on a building.
(08:42):
It just feels like it'ssuperstitious and it was left
out.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Yeah, it's just a way to say your building is
taller than it really is.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
True.
SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
I I didn't realize there was much superstition with
the Hammurabi Code.
It's most famous for itsintroduction of equivalent
punishment.
So, you know, you get the phrasean eye for an eye from the
Hammurabi Code, where ifsomebody gouges out your eye,
then the legal punishment is theperpetrator's eye gets gouged
out.
If someone's wagon runs overyour leg, then their leg will
(09:12):
also be maimed.
It's kind of crazy andincredibly cruel, but was an
effective legal system for quitea while.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Tit for tat, some would say.
There has also been a history ofcertain Fridays being unlucky or
cursed for a while.
So according to the Vox article,this can be traced back to
Chaucer, who introduced or atleast memorialized this concept
in the Canterbury Tales.
Because of Chaucer's style ofwriting, it's hard to understand
if this was playful writing orindicative of the attitude
(09:40):
towards Fridays at the time.
But essentially, this idea ofFriday just being an unlucky day
generally, combined with thenumber 13 having superstition in
different cultures is again akind of all it's like the
perfect storm.
It all comes together here.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
I just remember the Canterbury Tales movie.
That's a weird one.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
I'm sure I watched it in English class.
But listen, watch a night'stale.
That's a much better retelling.
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
Of Canterbury Tales?
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
Yeah.
Jeffrey Chaucer.
Well, it's like a modernversion.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
Well, Chaucer's in it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Yeah, but it's better.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Yes, it is better.
It's more entertaining.
But the Canterbury Tales movie,there is so much.
I just remember there being fullfrontal like male nudity.
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
Like the one you watched in English class or
whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
Yes.
And they're just like going atit, and then they stop having
sex.
And then he just turns aroundand of course he's completely
flaccid.
I'm like, that's not realistic.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
What a high school you went to.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
Because you cannot show a wreck penis or butthole
and still have a rating of R.
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Don't I know it?
One of my first my first job, Ishould say, in New York City was
working for a company that putcontent onto like set top boxes,
and I had to watch porn, amongother movies and things, and
make sure that the ratings werecorrect.
And so I knew the rules reallywell.
So again, there's a great Voxarticle, which we'll link in the
(11:06):
description, which goes into allof the different possibilities
here, and there are many.
I think it's probably anamalgamation of all of these.
But according to Vox, the realreason that Friday the 13th
picked up in superstitiouspopularity is because of a book
that came out in 1907 calledFriday the 13th.
The gist of the story is that astockbroker uses the date to
(11:26):
deliberately crash the stockmarket.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
Whoa.
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
And of course, when Friday the 13th, the film,
finally came out in 1980, ithelped sort of seal the fate in
a way.
It was that recent of thissuperstition.
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
Did it release on Friday the 13th?
SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
No, it did not.
But it came out on a Friday, butit was May 9th, 1980.
So I don't know.
I just think it's crazy that youhave traditions that date back
hundreds and thousands of yearsago, and they still sort of
exist and inform modern culture.
I don't know.
That's the whole point of thispodcast is to trace things back
as best as we can.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
I think you're doing a great job.
SPEAKER_00 (12:01):
Thank you.
Okay, so the reason why thisseries is called Friday the
13th.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Finally, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
We're gonna get into it in a second, but know this.
There's a difference between thereason why and the in-world
reason why.
What?
I'll bear with me, okay?
Stick with me.
Horror changed forever in 1978with the release of John
Carpenter's Halloween.
Two years later, Paramount washoping to capitalize on this new
slasher genre with the releaseof Sean S.
(12:29):
Cunningham's Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
It was not a new genre thanks toBlack Christmas.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
There's a difference between Black Christmas and
Halloween, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
One's a good movie, one's boring as hell.
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
Yes, but also you don't see like it throughout all
of Halloween, you see Myersstalk the victims in a way that
you don't throughout BlackChristmas.
SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
And I think the difference of that, like this
like cat and mouse chasevisually, is what Friday the
13th is clearly replicating.
And I think that was somethingnew that Carpenter gave us in
78.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
So it's I mean, again, it's just better.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
It's also just better.
Everything about it's better.
It's the best film ever made.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
And it's Halloween themed.
Yeah.
Unlike Black Christmas, which isChristmas themed.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Facts.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
But it's actually interesting.
We're gonna talk about this alittle bit.
One thing that Friday the 13this trying to capitalize on, to
your point, Alan, is likecalendar is creating like a
calendar association becauseit's Sean S.
Cunningham saw how successfulthat was for other films, but
we'll talk about that more in asecond.
When you watch the very firstFriday the 13th film, it's hard
(13:40):
to ignore the Kevin Bacon.
Truly.
I mean, he's such a little tinyboy.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
He comes out of nowhere.
SPEAKER_00 (13:46):
It's it's almost a jump scare.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
Holy cow, you're Kevin Bacon.
What the hell are you doing inthis bit roll?
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Yeah, it was the biggest uh role for him at the
time.
Sorry, it's not a bit roll.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
It's it's a supporting role, but it's a
minor supporting role.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
But he has a cool kill, and so that's he's just a
guy there.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Yeah, he's just one of the sorry spoilers.
SPEAKER_00 (14:05):
He's one of the bros.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Fuck yeah, Kevin Bacon.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
No, we're not apologizing for spoilers.
Listen, you clicked on anepisode for Friday the 13th, it
is what it is.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
I know, but like what if you didn't know about
Kevin Bacon?
SPEAKER_00 (14:17):
Then you shouldn't be listening.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
It's such a wonderful surprise.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
So when you first watch the very first Friday the
13th film, it's hard to ignorethe many similarities to
Halloween, which makes sense,but also I've noticed a lot of
similarities to Psycho.
It feels like Cunningham isreally drawing on obvious horror
inspiration to kick off thisseries.
And, you know, I don't blamehim.
I think that's something that alot of great filmmakers do.
(14:42):
Cunningham had worked as aproducer on Last House on the
Left in 1972 and continued todirect three comedies before
trying his hand at horror in1980.
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
Wait, wait, wait.
So he does Last House on theLeft.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Tries.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Three like comedy.
One is like a sexploitationcomedy, and the other two are
like, I don't know, more tame.
And then after this, he alsogoes back to comedy.
Like he just loves kind of likeedgy comedy.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
I mean, Last House on the Left is just one belly
laugh after the next.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Weird.
This is not the last time we'regonna talk about Last House on
the Left in this episode.
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
That's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Yeah.
So because of his interest incomedy, Cunningham was hoping
that Friday the 13th would be aquote roller coaster ride for
audiences.
He wanted to scare people andmake them laugh.
The working title used by thewriter, Victor Miller, was
quote, A Long Night at CampBlood, end quote.
But Cunningham had the idea totitle the film Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Again, looking at the success of Halloween, he saw
an opportunity for acalendar-based marketing
success.
Cunningham even took out an adin variety with the title before
it was fully cleared legally,and before the film was funded,
wanting to drum up excitementand claim it as their own.
There was, in fact, already amovie with a similar title out
(15:59):
there.
Friday the 13th, The Orphan from1979.
Distributor George Mansor said,quote, it was moderately
successful, but someone stillthreatened to sue.
Either Phil Skurdy paid themoff, but it was finally
resolved, end quote.
So it's kind of the idea thatsomebody just paid them off to
drop a lawsuit because thedirector went rogue and did
this.
(16:19):
He believed in it so much.
Again, the script had nothing todo with Friday the 13th.
Nothing had anything to do withit, but he wanted to have this
like calendar thing that youcould market and franchise on,
right?
And he was right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Production started on the first film, which starred
Betsy Palmer, Adrian King, HarryCrosby, Lori Bartom, and among
others, Kevin Bacon.
Notably, again, this was KevinBacon's biggest role at the
time.
He was not an established actorbefore this.
Filming mostly took place in NewJersey, and the camp where it
was filmed is still open.
I actually think I've had a fewfriends who have gone to
(16:53):
weddings there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
So they filmed it where it's actually supposed to
be.
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
No, when I was telling you that it was in New
Jersey, it was because I knew itwas filmed there.
I don't know where it was meantto be.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
No, it is true.
Oh.
Where Jason goes to Manhattanand he basically walks there.
It has to be New Jersey.
It has to be.
It's in Hoboken.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
That's right.
As the film opens, a group ofteenagers arrive at Camp Crystal
Lake to reopen it for thesummer.
For the first time in years.
We find out that the camp hasbeen closed for several seasons
after a young boy, JasonVoorhees, drowned in the lake.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
It's his fault.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
What unfolds feels like a perfectly classic slasher
movie.
Counselors take advantage oftheir time at the camp before
the campers arrive by hooking upand acting like teenagers, and
their escapades are thwarted oneby one as a mysterious figure
starts to brutally murder themuntil we are left with only
Alice.
But just a side note, KevinBacon's kill has gone on to sort
(17:57):
of be fairly iconic, and it wasreally challenging for the
filmmakers to accomplish, andthey almost had to abandon it,
so I want to talk about it alittle bit.
Quoting from the Mental Flossarticle by Matthew Jackson,
quote, perhaps the most iconicdeath in the film occurs when
Jack, played by Kevin Bacon, iskilled with an arrow shoved
through his throat fromunderneath the bed he's lying
(18:18):
on.
It's a brilliant special effectsmoment, but was also the most
complex death scene in the film.
To make it work, Bacon had tocrouch under the bed and insert
his head through a hole in themattress.
Then a latex neck and chestappliance were attached to give
the appearance that he wasactually laying down.
Getting the setup right tookhours, and Bacon had to stay in
(18:39):
that uncomfortable position theentire time.
For the bloody final moment,Savini, who was the makeup
designer, also under the bed,would plunge the arrow up and
through the fake neck, while hisassistant, who was also under
the bed, operated a pump thatwould make the fake blood flow
up through the appliance.
To further complicate things,the crew needed someone to stand
(19:01):
in for the killer's hand as itheld Bacon's head down, and they
settled on the photographerRichard Fury.
So after hours of setup in latexbuilding and planning, it was
finally time to shoot the scene.
And when the moment of truthcame, the hose for the blood
pump disconnected.
Knowing that he basically hadonly one take, otherwise they'd
have to build a new latexappliance and set everything up
(19:22):
again, the assistant grabbed thehose and blew into it until
blood flowed out, saving thescene.
I had to think quick.
So I grabbed the hose and blewlike crazy, which thankfully
caused a serendipitous arterialblood spray, the assistant said.
The blood didn't taste that badeither.
End quote.
SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
I think people would be amazed to find out how much
of Hollywood is achieved bypeople just like crouching and
just like doing a little task.
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
You're just out of frame and you're pumping or
you're blowing or you'reshaking.
Or you're holding a light.
And that's, you know, that'smovie magic.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
Yeah.
I mean it's true because likewhen you read this, you're like,
wow, this sounds like how wewould maybe do something.
I mean, the latex is kind ofbeyond us, but you know, how we
would do a practical effect aspeople, and it's just like,
yeah, sometimes the practicaleffects are the best way to do
it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
They usually are.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
CGI ages.
Yep.
Alice finally, so right, the oneremaining counselor, Alice
finally comes face to face withthe killer haunting the camp.
And spoiler alert, this is lasttime I'll say it, it turns out
to be Pamela Voorhees, Jason'smother.
Pamela was played by BetsyPalmer, but Shelley Winters was
the filmmaker's first choice.
(20:34):
Palmer ended up taking the partso that she could buy a new car.
What?
Yeah, she was kind of like thisfamous like old school Hollywood
actress.
And yeah, I just thought it wasinteresting.
Like when you Google her, youshe has these like glamorous
beauty shots of herself fromlike you know the 50s.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Is this her most notable role?
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
When I looked at her list of films, I didn't
recognize many others, but Ifeel like my mom would, you
know, like someone who reallyknows a lot of like the golden
era of Hollywood.
Got it.
But Palmer didn't play the rolefor the whole movie.
Several other crew membersstepped in until Palmer was
cast.
Because she was really there forthe ending.
SPEAKER_01 (21:10):
Until she was cast.
unknown (21:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
So like there's like a few moments where you see a
movement or a figure and theyjust I understand, but like were
they filming without casting?
I think that's crazy.
I think so.
They're trying to get ShellyWinters.
So Mrs.
Voorhees is seeking revenge oncounselors because she blames
the camp counselors who didn'tproperly supervise her son when
he drowned.
(21:33):
And in a wonderfully shockingending, Alice actually manages
to kill Mrs.
Voorhees, becoming the solesurvivor and final girl.
As she is floating in a canoe onthe lake, the figure of a
monstrous little boy jumps fromthe lake and pulls her off the
canoe.
But she doesn't die.
SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
Well, right, because that's uh it's a hallucination.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Yeah, it's a dream sequence sort of hallucination
thing, which will happen copioustimes in this franchise.
SPEAKER_01 (22:01):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (22:02):
It's really, I would say, one of the strongest themes
in the franchise.
That and recaps.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
The strongest theme of the entire franchise, hands
down, is a blatant, unapologetichatred of teenagers.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Especially teenagers with boobs.
Anyone who shows their breasts,they're dead.
Or anyone who enjoys breasts,they're dead too.
It's really like one of thosemovies when you think about like
classic horror from this time.
There's a lot of that, right?
Like teenagers get punished fordoing drugs, for drinking, for
having sex.
This is exactly that.
Verbatim.
(22:38):
Yep.
The pious survive, right?
So Alice wakes up in thehospital and it leaves us
somewhat unsure of what happenedto Jason.
Was that a hallucination?
Was it not a hallucination?
Was not.
Wait, it was.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
Wait, I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
Was it's not defined.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
She that happens and then she wakes up and we don't
know.
Like, did that happen or did shedream that in the hospital?
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
Or was she just a drunk teenager?
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
The twist ending of Jason coming out of the lake
didn't exist in the originalscript.
It was actually the makeupartist, Tom Savini, who
suggested the ending.
He was inspired by the endingjump scare in Carrie.
Savini and his team used thepizza ovens at the camp, just a
fun fact, to bake the latexneeded for the special effects
in makeup.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
The writer, Victor Miller, was pretty upset with
the filmmakers that they decidedto center Jason as the killer in
subsequent sequels.
Quote, Jason was dead from thevery beginning.
He was a victim, not a villain,end quote.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
Disagree.
Yeah.
But I've seen the other movies.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
What a cranky writer.
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
Jokes on you.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
The film opened on May 9th, 1980.
SPEAKER_01 (23:41):
It's not called Friday the 13th, Mom Takes
Manhattan.
Good point, Alan.
It's not called Mom vs.
Freddy.
It's not called Oh, FinalFriday, Mom Goes to Hell.
Right.
But that's a movie I'd watch.
Or Mom X.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
The film opened on May 9th, 1980.
Variety did not love the movie,writing that it quote, has
nothing to exploit but its titleand whatever Oomph Paramount
puts into the marketingcampaign, end quote.
But it opened on 1127 theaters,and boy did Cunningham prove
Variety wrong.
The first film in the franchisegrossed almost 68 million
(24:18):
worldwide, 59.8 million.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Compared Is that adjusted for inflation?
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Adjusted for inflation, it's like 238
billion.
What?
Yeah.
Holy cow.
Compared to its budget ofsomewhere between 500,000 and
700,000.
I'm sorry, 238 billion?
Alright, fact-checking myself.
I did this calculation before westarted, but I didn't write it
down.
Okay, so no.
60 million in 1980 is roughly236 million today.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
I see.
SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
Just me exaggerating as always.
Regardless, it was a massivesuccess.
One of the most profitablehorror movies of all time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
Can you imagine making one movie and then having
more GDP than a lot ofcountries?
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
Yeah, that's crazy.
For Paramount, only one filmfrom 1980 did better
financially, and that wasAirplane.
SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
It's a great movie.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
The entire series would go on to include 12 films
in total.
It would spin off a televisionseries, video games, novels, and
comic books.
Jason would become just as, orin some cases, maybe even more
recognizable than Michael Myers.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
The second film in the franchise was released a
year later in 1981.
This time the movie was directedby Steve Miner.
This was Miner's featuredirectorial debut.
He would also direct the thirdinstallment, House from 1985,
Halloween H2O, Lake Placid, andDay of the Dead from 2008.
Lake Placid?
Yeah.
Heck yeah.
And Halloween H2O.
(25:40):
It's a good one.
Similar to Sean S.
Cunningham, Miner also worked onThe Last House on the Left as a
PA and a personal assistant.
The bulk of the second filmpicks up the story five years
later.
We start again with Alice, ourfinal girl from the original,
who is struggling to move onafter the massacre that she
experienced.
But despite being the finalgirl, she is killed by Jason
(26:01):
pretty quickly into the sequel,finally confirming that he is
alive, well, and a killer,right?
So we know that even if that wasa hallucination or whatever it
is, he actually is a threat.
I have a question.
Okay, hit me.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
And I mean, this only dawned on me far later in
the series.
But he dies as a little kid.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
And then he comes out of the lake as an adult.
No.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
No.
This I actually have a noteabout this too.
He dies as a little kid, right?
He drowns in the lake.
When he jumps out of the lake atthe end of the first movie, he's
in the body of a little boy.
Right.
Then when we are introduced toJason for the first time, at the
beginning of the second film,he's an adult.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:48):
That's if there's a five-year difference between the
end of the first film and thestart of the second.
So we have to assume that he wassome sort of like living lake
creature monster that was alittle boy and then in five
years became an adult man, abroad-shouldered adult man.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
I think they actually address this in part
two, where they say how he livesin his little house.
He didn't actually die in thelake.
He almost died, and now he justlives in the woods.
Something like that.
And now, yeah, he's just likethis crazy feral kid in a man's
body because he's just beenliving by himself eating like
(27:25):
squirrels and shit.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Yeah, so maybe we're led to believe that the kid that
comes out of the lake next tothe canoe in the end of one was
a hallucination, right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:35):
Yep.
And then it isn't until later inthe franchise when he
effectively becomessupernatural.
Very similar to Halloween.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, we know exactly when that happens.
That will be in the next part.
Okay, so Jason kills Alice,right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
It's impossible to tell who's who.
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Yeah, truly.
After this, we return to CampCrystal Lake, and in a similar
scene to the first film, wewatch as camp counselors arrive
for training.
The plot is that the all theselike will be one day camp
counselors come together for atraining to learn how to be camp
counselors.
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
Right, and frickin' Slo McGee over there shows up
with her car all late.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
Yeah, the girlfriend.
And then she becomes kind of thelead woman of the movie, Ginny.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
So disrespectful.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
Yeah, it is.
Her boyfriend's pissed.
Her boyfriend Paul is the guywho's kind of in charge.
So the story of Jason is sharedat a campfire tale that night,
right?
Described in detail by PaulHolt, who is the head counselor.
And again, similar to the firstmovie, these counselors in
training start to be killed oneby one in cold blood, as Jason
makes his way methodicallythrough the lot of them.
(28:35):
In the sequel, we meet Ginny,Paul's girlfriend, who
eventually becomes the finalgirl.
She stumbles into Jason's shrineto his dead mother, which also
includes his mother'sdecapitated head.
Classic.
She impersonates Pamela Voorheesand confuses Jason or convinces
him enough to survive.
SPEAKER_01 (28:52):
In one of the most bold strategies in the history
of strategies.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
This strategy play comes up again later.
It sure does.
So part two also ends with ajump scare.
When we think Paul and Ginnywill survive, Jason bursts
through a window and attacks onefinal time.
He isn't wearing his mask inthis movie.
His face is covered for themajority of it, but he's not
wearing his hockey mask yet.
That comes in the next movie.
But we see in this scene when hebursts through because he's not
(29:18):
wearing anything how horrifyingand disfigured his face is.
Though Ginny survives, we don'tknow again what happens to
Jason.
SPEAKER_01 (29:25):
Yeah, he grew up eating squirrels.
You know, he has no dental work.
Uh his entire skincare regimenis lake water.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
It's not good.
It's not good.
Part two had a budget of 1.25million and went on to gross
21.7 million just in the U.S.
box office.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Great ROI.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
The second movie was filmed in a different location,
mostly in New Preston in Kent,Connecticut.
Similar to Halloween 2, Fridaythe 13th, 3 picks up right after
the events of the second movie.
We follow a group of youngfriends as they travel to
Higgins Haven, heading to like arural sort of Country house
trip, right, uh at this guy Chrthis kind of rural country house
(30:05):
trip with some, you know,teenage friends at this girl
Chris Higgins' farmhouse.
Chris hasn't been back to thisfarmhouse in a few years, and
we're sort of led to believethat she was attacked by Jason
here years previously.
As the fun unfolds, Chrisremains on high alert.
She's clearly uncomfortable andshe is kind of dealing with the
trauma that she experiencedhere.
(30:26):
And rightfully so, as we startto see Jason stalk the group and
kill locals.
This is in the town, right?
Yes.
He starts by killing that guy atthe convenience or the gas
station or whatever, until hegets closer to the farmhouse.
There is a weird, notablestandout in this movie, which is
a character named Shelly.
Shelly is always playing prankson the rest of the group,
(30:47):
especially gory pranks with fakemasks and blood.
He is clearly an outsider and hemakes the rest of the group feel
uncomfortable.
Especially this one girl that heis kind of like meant to be
matched up with, and she'sclearly horrified of him.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
I mean, everyone's horrified of him.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
There is a moment when Jason takes Shelly's prank
hockey mask for himself.
And this is the first time thatwe see Jason in his iconic
hockey mask, something thatstays with him for the rest of
the franchise.
Yep.
So that's where he gets it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:14):
The filmmakers must have known this is the look that
we want for him.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Yeah.
But also, like you needsomething to put on a poster.
You know, the first two movies,it's like you need a villain,
you need a Mike Myers, you needa Freddie Kruger.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
I wonder if the hockey mask was on the original
poster for part three.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
Yeah, I bet it was.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
Because it's not in one and two, obviously.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
But you know, the in posters often get retconned, you
know, and like the shifted,yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
As he tends to, Jason starts to kill the
teenagers one by one.
At the end of the movie, Chris,still alive, fights back.
She pulls off his mask andrealizes Jason was in fact the
person who attacked herpreviously.
She hits him in the head with anaxe and Jason seems to die, but
does he really?
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
One fun note about this injury, this axe injury.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
For many movies after this, he has the scar from
this axe.
That's cool.
I didn't notice that.
Uh he well, I mean, it's justlike a I mean, it's a fatal hit,
theoretically, you know.
If as fatal as you can get withthis immortal zombie guy.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
And every time you see Jason without his mask after
this, he has this giant gashover the left side of his head.
SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
Cool.
I like that.
The end of this movie mirrorsthe ending of the first.
The next day, Chris dreams,another common trope in these
movies, that Pamela Voorhees'dead, reanimated body springs
from the lake and pulls herunder.
Part three was originallyreleased in 3D.
It's also the first of theseries to be filmed on the West
Coast in California and not onthe East Coast.
(32:46):
Part three was released in 1982and was again directed by Steven
Minor.
The movie stars Dana Kimmel andPaul Crofta.
The movie grossed 36.7 millionin the US, compared to the
budget of 2.2 million.
Originally, the film's plot wasmeant to be totally different,
to focus on Ginny from part two,but the actress who played Ginny
(33:06):
refused to return, and a newconcept was developed.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
I wonder if that was for the best or not.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:12):
Part three for me is definitely one of the more
forgettable.
SPEAKER_00 (33:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
It just it blends so seamlessly.
Like you can watch one throughfour as one gigantic movie.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Uh you know, they just bl especially two through
four, just blend right in oneright into the next by by
design.
And it seems like with thisrewrite for part three, the
original idea was gonna be evenmore seamless.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:38):
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Well, yeah, and the only standout of this is that
it's not on the lake, and Ithink that's why it feels
forgettable, also, too.
But totally, you could watchthese for which is why we're
grouping these together, andthey were it was one of those
things where they were like,okay, you know, obviously the
success of one was unexpected.
We're gonna do a trilogy.
So it was originally intended tobe three.
Then again, this one did sowell, right?
(34:00):
These ROIs are insane.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
They'll never let it die.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
That they did another one, and so then that
you have a group of four, andthen it's rebooted with five.
So yeah.
Part three was the secondhighest-grossing horror movie of
1982, second only toPoltergeist, which is really
impressive, right?
You have Poltergeist, which isagain one of the most iconic
horror movies of all time, andyou have part three of a slasher
franchise, which gets horriblereviews, but the people fucking
(34:24):
love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Well, well, hang on, Poltergeist is famous now, but
how many movies come out, don'tdo great, and then only become
cult classics after the homerelease?
But it did well.
It was the highest-grossinghorror film of the year.
Good point.
My point is bunk.
However, sequels usually makemoney, especially when the one
right before it was incrediblysuccessful.
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
Even if it's a total flop, people have to see it to
know that it's a flop.
This is pre-internet.
People can't just go on AOLInstant Messenger and talk to
your friends and find out ifit's gonna be a good movie or
not.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
True, they had to call them on the landline or
write them a letter at thispoint.
SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
To me, the fourth movie feels like the first
deviation in the series.
And deviations are gonna beflying fast and loose as we go
through the rest of thefranchise, but the fourth movie
seems to kind of have the firstdifferent focus a little bit.
Friday the 14th, 4, the finalchapter, L-O L, was directed by
Joseph Zito.
(35:25):
And I really I don't know, Ijust have this love for horror
franchises and films that arethe final chapter, the last,
whatever, and it's like four outof twelve.
I know.
Who are you kidding?
Tom Savini, the makeup artistfrom the original movie that
came up with the iconic ending,returned to four.
He wanted to help kill offJason, who he felt he had a hand
in creating.
SPEAKER_01 (35:46):
I think the biggest perpetrator of this would be the
Saw franchise when it's Saw, thefinal chapter, which is like
movie like 25, and then theyjust keep coming out after.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
How many Saw movies are there?
SPEAKER_01 (35:57):
There's not 25.
I think that's like Saw seven oreight or something.
Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:00):
Oof, Saw's rough for me.
So Friday the 13th, 4 wassupposed to be released in
October of 1984, but it wasmoved up to premiere in April.
April 13th, 1984, a Friday.
There we go.
There we go.
Took them four to figure it out.
The fourth installment grossed33 million in the US against its
(36:20):
budget of 2.2 million.
Like it's incredibly obvious whyParamount leans into this
franchise, right?
It just pretty good.
It prints money every singletime.
At the time, the movie was metwith negative reviews, but I
think it's fun.
And I think modern audiencesagree with me.
Like, I think you could watchany movie in this franchise and
you wouldn't be like, dang,there's something hugely fresh
(36:45):
or meaningful or some kind ofpractical effect that's so
unique.
Like there's nothing that blowsyou away, but every single movie
is fun to watch.
And I personally think they getmore fun as it goes on.
Like when they jump the sharkand get crazy, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Wholeheartedly agree.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
I had and I think also that's why maybe Halloween,
which is the best horrorfranchise of all time, but
scared me to watch.
Like I think Halloween isscarier than Friday the 13th to
me.
SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
Halloween movies are pretty serious.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
With some notable exceptions.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (37:17):
Friday 13th from the get-go is campy as fuck.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
Yeah.
And the more they lean into thatas the franchise goes on, the
more fun it is.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
I mean, it even it borderlines absurd at times.
Yeah.
And it's so fun.
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So if you recall, at the end ofFriday the 13th, 3, Jason has an
axe in his head.
And four, we meet him at themorgue.
But he wakes up, surprise,surprise, kills a nurse and a
coroner, and somehow finds hisway back to Camp Crystal Lake.
SPEAKER_01 (37:46):
This is the first time we see him officially
resurrect, right?
SPEAKER_00 (37:49):
Yeah, it is.
Nearby, there are two differentgroups that we start to follow.
One is a group of rowdyteenagers, I wonder what's going
to happen to them, staying for aweekend on the lake, and the
other is the Jarvis family wholives next door.
Tommy Jarvis, the little boy ofthe family, will go on to become
an important pillar of theFriday the 13th franchise.
He is a nerdy little boy playedby Corey Feldman who loves
(38:12):
monsters, masks, and specialeffects.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
This movie is great, by the way.
SPEAKER_00 (38:16):
Yeah, it is.
Again, they start to get betterat this point.
Jason first targets theteenagers, as he always does,
and he kills them one by one.
At some point, a newcomer namedRob appears, and we find out
that Rob is the brother of awoman who Jason kills in part
two.
And unfortunately, Rob suffersthe same fate as his sister.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah, again, names don't matter.
The people are here to be killedor do cool things while f
fighting Jason.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
Yep.
And even when you have likefinal girls and things in the
series, like usually at thebeginning of the next movie they
die.
Yep.
There's a few exceptions tothat, but very few.
They might survive a few movies,but they don't tend to live
forever.
SPEAKER_01 (38:58):
Then Lori comes in and just kicks ass.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:01):
You'd think people would maybe shut down this lake
or something, but no.
During the end of the movie,Tommy and his sister Trish are
running from Jason.
Tommy, similar to Ginny in theprevious films, has the truly
wild idea to shave his head tomake himself look like a young
Jason.
SPEAKER_01 (39:17):
It's insane.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
An insane sequence of scenes.
It's insane.
SPEAKER_01 (39:21):
Not even to try to convince a disturbed person that
they're the mother, but he'sgonna convince him that I'm you.
SPEAKER_00 (39:30):
I'm you.
And so he does like it's likethe scene in the Grinch.
He does like a hack job of likeshaving himself.
It's so crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
But and then it's like, I don't know.
We both thought at the time wesaw this that we're like, okay,
I understand they're gonna killJason, and this boy is gonna
become the new Jason.
SPEAKER_00 (39:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Nope.
It's just a really odd ploy.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
Yeah.
But guess what?
It confuses him, it works.
And Tommy is able to confuse himenough, disorient him enough
that he attacks him with amachete.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
I will say, I can't think of a single time in the
entire franchise where trying toconfuse Jason doesn't work.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Yeah, that's the best bet.
Keep that in mind as we movethrough this world.
So Tommy hits Jason over andover again with this machete as
Trish watches in horror as herlittle brother murders a
full-grown man with extremeviolence.
Tommy's iconic final look at thecamera leads us to believe that
maybe he's been possessed by thespirit of Jason or will somehow
(40:32):
become the next killer, whichwould have really been an
interesting plot line if theseries decided to stick with it.
But it didn't.
Nope.
We're going to pause herebecause the fifth movie comes in
the form of a series reboot.
And so, like Alan said, thesefirst four movies really, I
don't know, it's like they sortof stumble into the traits of
Jason one by one, right?
(40:53):
He's not even in the firstmovie.
In the second movie, he doesn'thave his mask yet.
Like it's kind of a slow burnbuild of his character and what
the backstory is.
SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
Which is kind of cool.
It adds something to it.
You're kind of collecting thepieces as you watch.
But now we've established whoJason is, what his motivation
is, and we're gonna sort of comeback with a vengeance.
And again, I typically I'msomeone who kind of fades out
after a few movies in a horrorfranchise.
I think Friday the 13th is oneof the few franchises for me
(41:23):
personally that I feel like getsbetter as you go.
And I there's something aboutlike to Alan's point, how campy
and j like how far these jumpthe shark as you go on that's so
satisfying and fun.
And while they're not as soulcrushing or as haunting, as
scary as other horrorfranchises, it's unique in that
(41:44):
way.
Like I'm genuinely having ablast watching these.
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
I will say this is a rare situation where the sequels
are getting more money, bettertalent.
SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
All these resources funneled towards them, where
it's usually the opposite.
Where, you know, but by the timeyou hit the third or fourth
movie in all in almost anyfranchise, it's usually some
kind of cash grab, uh, wherethey want to spend as little as
possible because they know theyjust want to cash in quick and
get out.
In this case, they're pumpingstuff in and they're trying
(42:18):
really hard to make them fun,and they're doing a great job.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
It feels so good to be back.
Thank you guys again for bearingwith us as we had to tend to
some life things for a littlewhile, but it feels really good
to be back and feels like we'rein our skin again.
I'm so pumped for this series.
I'm having such a blast, and weare gonna do a stories episode
at the end of this.
We have some really great camphorror stories to share with you
(42:43):
guys.
So stay tuned.
This is gonna be probably afour-part series.
Go watch these movies, watchalong all October.
That's kind of the idea.
If you're looking for somethingto watch and to get into the
spooky mindset, I highlyrecommend Friday the 13th.
Also, for anyone out there who'son our Discord, or you can find
the link to our Discord in thedescription of this, our friend
(43:05):
Dan is doing something for thethird year in a row now, where
anybody who wants can go intothis Google Doc that Dan has
created, make a little columnfor yourself, and start tracking
all of the horror movies you'rewatching.
This is an honor system.
It's fun to look back at theyears previous, but go track as
you watch horror films thismonth, and whoever watches the
(43:25):
most tends to get a littleprize.
So that's a fun thing that we doevery year.
As always, thank you so much forbeing here.
We are so excited for thisseries.
It is only gonna get better,right?
To me, this is like the basics,and then the next two episodes
are gonna be so fun.
Stay spooky, stay well.
It's a scary time out there, theworld is burning around us, but
you know what they say.
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
What do they say?
SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
That's when you need horror the most.
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:49):
Love you guys.
Talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_01 (43:51):
Bye.
Bye.
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode,
a long overdue episode of theLunatics Radio Hour Podcast.
My name is Abby Brinker, and I'msitting here with Alan Kudan.
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
Hello.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
And listen, we'll address the elephant in the
room.
We know we've been a littledelinquent behind the scenes,
and uh it's been a little bitlonger than we anticipated since
the last time we recorded, butwe are so thrilled to be back,
and we beg your forgivenessbecause there was some big life
things happening behind thescenes and we had to shift our
focus briefly.
(00:50):
But we are so thrilled to beback today in October with our
big Halloween series, and uhwe're really excited to share
spooky Halloween time with you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
I'm very excited for this.
We've literally been talkingabout this for years.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
For years, yes.
And I want to just shout outright off the bat and say that
this episode, the series, isbrought to you by Kellogg's.
I wish.
Why you wish?
Because then we'd have asponsor.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
They're evil.
The cornflakes were originallydeveloped as part of an
anti-masturbation campaign.
Mr.
Kellogg himself made cornflakesbecause the bland taste was
supposed to curb lustfuldesires.
SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
I don't know about you, but I am constantly eating
cereal and getting lustfuldesires.
Yeah, that's fascinating.
What a weird world we live in.
No, what I was going to say isthat not only is this episode
and series not sponsored byanybody, that it's dedicated to
our new friend Austin, who'sbeen a longtime listener of the
(01:55):
podcast.
And Alan and I had the absolutepleasure of meeting Austin in
March for the first time inperson.
And Austin has said to us a fewtimes how much he really loved
our Halloween series that we dida few years ago around this
time, where we watched everysingle Halloween film, which I
have to say was a really jumpytime in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Why jumpy?
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
I feel like it, even though Halloween is my favorite
franchise, it really got into myhead.
Really?
Yeah.
Huh.
But anyway, this is dedicated toAustin, and we wanted to
recreate it.
The Halloween episodes, I think,are episodes like 87 and 88.
We also did Nightmare on ElmStreet, but Abby.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
You haven't even announced what we're doing.
Well, people have read thetitle.
Not everyone can read.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Okay, all this is to say we've done some of the major
franchises around this time.
We're picking up this idea thisyear with Friday the 13th.
And so Alan and I are watchingevery single Friday the 13th
film in the franchise.
We are researching the historyof the production.
We're trying our best to piecetogether the storyline, which is
(02:58):
harder than you'd expect, andwe're here to talk about it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
No, I disagree.
I think it's actually easier.
Unlike the Halloween movies,there is a pretty coherent
thread, at least through themajority of the franchise.
SPEAKER_00 (03:15):
Alright, well, let's see if you still say that when
we're done.
So we're gonna break this upbecause there's 12 films, and
today we're gonna talk about thefirst four because those sort of
create a complete set, and thefifth reboots the series.
So today we're just talkingabout the first four films.
There are, of course, spoilersin this, but you know what?
I think it's still a fun episodeto listen to, and you could
(03:37):
still go watch the movies, oryou could pause, watch the
movies, and come back.
Of course, that's up to you.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Or you can pause, watch, pause, watch.
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
Yeah, you could do that.
We'll make it very clear.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
That'd be crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Let's acknowledge our sources.
There is a Vox article by AsiaRomano.
Friday the 13th isn't unlucky.
It's a meme disguised assuperstition, a time article
simply titled Friday the 13th byTime Staff, a National
Geographic article by BeckyLittle, Busting the Myth of
Friday the 13th and the KnightsTemplar, the entire Friday the
(04:07):
13th story finally explained byCez and Kohler on Looper.com,
and a mental floss article byMatthew Jackson, 17 Surprising
Facts About Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
We will also be citing the movies.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
Yes.
Good call out, Alan.
Before we get into the historyof this iconic film franchise,
and I'd only seen the first few,so it's been really fun,
actually, to watch through allthese because they get wilder
and wilder as time goes on.
I also want to talk about thehistory of the date, Friday the
13th, as this superstitious datein history and why it has that
(04:41):
reputation.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
I have a question.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:44):
So after watching a lot of Friday the 13th movies, I
still do not understand why theseries is called Friday the
13th.
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
That is a great question, which we will address.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Will we?
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
When?
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
Today.
Similar to superstitions likewalking under ladders, breaking
a mirror, even seeing a blackcat, right?
Folks have lived in fear of thenumber 13 for literally
thousands of years.
There are many differenthistoric paths that lead us to
the superstition of this day.
So the background here isn'tgoing to be totally linear, but
hopefully you will get therewith me.
(05:17):
So, first, according to Norsemythology, the number 13
developed a bad reputation whenthe god Loki crashed a dinner
party with twelve other gods,making, of course, Loki the
thirteenth god.
At this party, Loki wasresponsible for coordinating the
shooting of the Norse godBaldur, was the son of Odin and
Frig.
(05:37):
He was thought of as just andhonorable, like an overall good
god.
A shining beautiful beacon ofgood and beauty, which made his
death devastating to everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Everyone called him Baldur the Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
Did they really?
SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
That's nice.
After he was shot by Hor,H-O-O-R, the world went dark
according to mythology.
So that's one angle, right?
The Norse angle.
There is a somewhat similardinner party theory in
Christianity.
According to claims, there were13 guests at the Last Supper,
Jesus and his twelve apostles.
This dinner took place on aThursday, followed the next day
(06:12):
by the crucifixion on GoodFriday.
But there are so many otherinstances of thirteen being
unlucky throughout variouscultures across the globe.
So for example, a year with 13full moons instead of the usual
twelve caused problems for themonks who were creating early
calendars.
There are also connections hereto ancient calendars, like the
Mayan's calendar, 13th Buchan,which was associated with the
(06:34):
2012 apocalypse phenomenon.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Whatever happened with that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
However, it's also broadly believed that there is a
definitive reason that Fridaythe 13th has become a cursed
day, though it's not entirelyaccurate.
It dates back to a Friday the13th in October of 1307.
On this date, there was a raidon the Knights Templar that
mostly killed all of them, soalmost nobody survived.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Who killed whom?
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Great question, Alan.
So the raid was actually orderedby King Philip IV of France,
also known as Philip the Fair,even though this is not a good
example of that.
So Philip had sent orders,secret orders, I may add, uh, to
arrest all members of theKnights Templar simultaneously.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
I think I remember this from Assassin's Creed.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
Yes, I remember that too.
At this time, the Templars hadbeen accused of heresy
essentially and corruption, andalso devil worship.
We actually talked about thisraid in the Black Mass episode
that I did with Miranda Warzella while ago.
That was a good episode if youwant to hear more about this
raid.
There's a bit more informationon it there.
But anyway, that's why Philipkind of there was these rumors
(07:40):
that the Knights Templar werecorrupt, that they were bad boys
and they needed to be broken up.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
So what does that have to do with the Friday the
13th?
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Again, the idea is that this raid happened on
Friday the 13th in October of1307.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
And Jason Voorhees was a member of the Knights
Templar?
SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
Listen, stick with me, okay?
I told you this was not going tobe linear.
But I'm talking about theKnights Templar thing because
when you do look up, like whatis the history of Friday the
13th, often the differenthistorical sources are citing
the Knights Templar raid as areason.
And of course the Last Supper.
Finally, there's also a fairlycomplicated theory connected to
the Babylonian Code ofHammurabi.
The Code of Hammurabi is a legaltext that was written in the
(08:19):
mid-1700s BC.
It's one of the oldest and bestpreserved texts that still exist
from ancient Babylon.
It was composed on a combinationof stone and steel and currently
sits at the Louvre in Paris.
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabidoes not include the number 13
in the list of laws.
Sort of similar to not includinga 13th floor on a building.
(08:42):
It just feels like it'ssuperstitious and it was left
out.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Yeah, it's just a way to say your building is
taller than it really is.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
True.
SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
I I didn't realize there was much superstition with
the Hammurabi Code.
It's most famous for itsintroduction of equivalent
punishment.
So, you know, you get the phrasean eye for an eye from the
Hammurabi Code, where ifsomebody gouges out your eye,
then the legal punishment is theperpetrator's eye gets gouged
out.
If someone's wagon runs overyour leg, then their leg will
(09:12):
also be maimed.
It's kind of crazy andincredibly cruel, but was an
effective legal system for quitea while.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Tit for tat, some would say.
There has also been a history ofcertain Fridays being unlucky or
cursed for a while.
So according to the Vox article,this can be traced back to
Chaucer, who introduced or atleast memorialized this concept
in the Canterbury Tales.
Because of Chaucer's style ofwriting, it's hard to understand
if this was playful writing orindicative of the attitude
(09:40):
towards Fridays at the time.
But essentially, this idea ofFriday just being an unlucky day
generally, combined with thenumber 13 having superstition in
different cultures is again akind of all it's like the
perfect storm.
It all comes together here.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
I just remember the Canterbury Tales movie.
That's a weird one.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
I'm sure I watched it in English class.
But listen, watch a night'stale.
That's a much better retelling.
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
Of Canterbury Tales?
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
Yeah.
Jeffrey Chaucer.
Well, it's like a modernversion.
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
Well, Chaucer's in it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Yeah, but it's better.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Yes, it is better.
It's more entertaining.
But the Canterbury Tales movie,there is so much.
I just remember there being fullfrontal like male nudity.
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
Like the one you watched in English class or
whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
Yes.
And they're just like going atit, and then they stop having
sex.
And then he just turns aroundand of course he's completely
flaccid.
I'm like, that's not realistic.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
What a high school you went to.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
Because you cannot show a wreck penis or butthole
and still have a rating of R.
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Don't I know it?
One of my first my first job, Ishould say, in New York City was
working for a company that putcontent onto like set top boxes,
and I had to watch porn, amongother movies and things, and
make sure that the ratings werecorrect.
And so I knew the rules reallywell.
So again, there's a great Voxarticle, which we'll link in the
(11:06):
description, which goes into allof the different possibilities
here, and there are many.
I think it's probably anamalgamation of all of these.
But according to Vox, the realreason that Friday the 13th
picked up in superstitiouspopularity is because of a book
that came out in 1907 calledFriday the 13th.
The gist of the story is that astockbroker uses the date to
(11:26):
deliberately crash the stockmarket.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
Whoa.
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
And of course, when Friday the 13th, the film,
finally came out in 1980, ithelped sort of seal the fate in
a way.
It was that recent of thissuperstition.
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
Did it release on Friday the 13th?
SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
No, it did not.
But it came out on a Friday, butit was May 9th, 1980.
So I don't know.
I just think it's crazy that youhave traditions that date back
hundreds and thousands of yearsago, and they still sort of
exist and inform modern culture.
I don't know.
That's the whole point of thispodcast is to trace things back
as best as we can.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
I think you're doing a great job.
SPEAKER_00 (12:01):
Thank you.
Okay, so the reason why thisseries is called Friday the
13th.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Finally, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
We're gonna get into it in a second, but know this.
There's a difference between thereason why and the in-world
reason why.
What?
I'll bear with me, okay?
Stick with me.
Horror changed forever in 1978with the release of John
Carpenter's Halloween.
Two years later, Paramount washoping to capitalize on this new
slasher genre with the releaseof Sean S.
(12:29):
Cunningham's Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
It was not a new genre thanks toBlack Christmas.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
There's a difference between Black Christmas and
Halloween, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
One's a good movie, one's boring as hell.
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
Yes, but also you don't see like it throughout all
of Halloween, you see Myersstalk the victims in a way that
you don't throughout BlackChristmas.
SPEAKER_01 (12:54):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
And I think the difference of that, like this
like cat and mouse chasevisually, is what Friday the
13th is clearly replicating.
And I think that was somethingnew that Carpenter gave us in
78.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
So it's I mean, again, it's just better.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
It's also just better.
Everything about it's better.
It's the best film ever made.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
And it's Halloween themed.
Yeah.
Unlike Black Christmas, which isChristmas themed.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Facts.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
But it's actually interesting.
We're gonna talk about this alittle bit.
One thing that Friday the 13this trying to capitalize on, to
your point, Alan, is likecalendar is creating like a
calendar association becauseit's Sean S.
Cunningham saw how successfulthat was for other films, but
we'll talk about that more in asecond.
When you watch the very firstFriday the 13th film, it's hard
(13:40):
to ignore the Kevin Bacon.
Truly.
I mean, he's such a little tinyboy.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
He comes out of nowhere.
SPEAKER_00 (13:46):
It's it's almost a jump scare.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
Holy cow, you're Kevin Bacon.
What the hell are you doing inthis bit roll?
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Yeah, it was the biggest uh role for him at the
time.
Sorry, it's not a bit roll.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
It's it's a supporting role, but it's a
minor supporting role.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
But he has a cool kill, and so that's he's just a
guy there.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Yeah, he's just one of the sorry spoilers.
SPEAKER_00 (14:05):
He's one of the bros.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Fuck yeah, Kevin Bacon.
SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
No, we're not apologizing for spoilers.
Listen, you clicked on anepisode for Friday the 13th, it
is what it is.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
I know, but like what if you didn't know about
Kevin Bacon?
SPEAKER_00 (14:17):
Then you shouldn't be listening.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
It's such a wonderful surprise.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
So when you first watch the very first Friday the
13th film, it's hard to ignorethe many similarities to
Halloween, which makes sense,but also I've noticed a lot of
similarities to Psycho.
It feels like Cunningham isreally drawing on obvious horror
inspiration to kick off thisseries.
And, you know, I don't blamehim.
I think that's something that alot of great filmmakers do.
(14:42):
Cunningham had worked as aproducer on Last House on the
Left in 1972 and continued todirect three comedies before
trying his hand at horror in1980.
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
Wait, wait, wait.
So he does Last House on theLeft.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Tries.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Three like comedy.
One is like a sexploitationcomedy, and the other two are
like, I don't know, more tame.
And then after this, he alsogoes back to comedy.
Like he just loves kind of likeedgy comedy.
SPEAKER_01 (15:06):
I mean, Last House on the Left is just one belly
laugh after the next.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Weird.
This is not the last time we'regonna talk about Last House on
the Left in this episode.
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
That's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Yeah.
So because of his interest incomedy, Cunningham was hoping
that Friday the 13th would be aquote roller coaster ride for
audiences.
He wanted to scare people andmake them laugh.
The working title used by thewriter, Victor Miller, was
quote, A Long Night at CampBlood, end quote.
But Cunningham had the idea totitle the film Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Again, looking at the success of Halloween, he saw
an opportunity for acalendar-based marketing
success.
Cunningham even took out an adin variety with the title before
it was fully cleared legally,and before the film was funded,
wanting to drum up excitementand claim it as their own.
There was, in fact, already amovie with a similar title out
(15:59):
there.
Friday the 13th, The Orphan from1979.
Distributor George Mansor said,quote, it was moderately
successful, but someone stillthreatened to sue.
Either Phil Skurdy paid themoff, but it was finally
resolved, end quote.
So it's kind of the idea thatsomebody just paid them off to
drop a lawsuit because thedirector went rogue and did
this.
(16:19):
He believed in it so much.
Again, the script had nothing todo with Friday the 13th.
Nothing had anything to do withit, but he wanted to have this
like calendar thing that youcould market and franchise on,
right?
And he was right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Production started on the first film, which starred
Betsy Palmer, Adrian King, HarryCrosby, Lori Bartom, and among
others, Kevin Bacon.
Notably, again, this was KevinBacon's biggest role at the
time.
He was not an established actorbefore this.
Filming mostly took place in NewJersey, and the camp where it
was filmed is still open.
I actually think I've had a fewfriends who have gone to
(16:53):
weddings there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
So they filmed it where it's actually supposed to
be.
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
No, when I was telling you that it was in New
Jersey, it was because I knew itwas filmed there.
I don't know where it was meantto be.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
No, it is true.
Oh.
Where Jason goes to Manhattanand he basically walks there.
It has to be New Jersey.
It has to be.
It's in Hoboken.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
That's right.
As the film opens, a group ofteenagers arrive at Camp Crystal
Lake to reopen it for thesummer.
For the first time in years.
We find out that the camp hasbeen closed for several seasons
after a young boy, JasonVoorhees, drowned in the lake.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
It's his fault.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
What unfolds feels like a perfectly classic slasher
movie.
Counselors take advantage oftheir time at the camp before
the campers arrive by hooking upand acting like teenagers, and
their escapades are thwarted oneby one as a mysterious figure
starts to brutally murder themuntil we are left with only
Alice.
But just a side note, KevinBacon's kill has gone on to sort
(17:57):
of be fairly iconic, and it wasreally challenging for the
filmmakers to accomplish, andthey almost had to abandon it,
so I want to talk about it alittle bit.
Quoting from the Mental Flossarticle by Matthew Jackson,
quote, perhaps the most iconicdeath in the film occurs when
Jack, played by Kevin Bacon, iskilled with an arrow shoved
through his throat fromunderneath the bed he's lying
(18:18):
on.
It's a brilliant special effectsmoment, but was also the most
complex death scene in the film.
To make it work, Bacon had tocrouch under the bed and insert
his head through a hole in themattress.
Then a latex neck and chestappliance were attached to give
the appearance that he wasactually laying down.
Getting the setup right tookhours, and Bacon had to stay in
(18:39):
that uncomfortable position theentire time.
For the bloody final moment,Savini, who was the makeup
designer, also under the bed,would plunge the arrow up and
through the fake neck, while hisassistant, who was also under
the bed, operated a pump thatwould make the fake blood flow
up through the appliance.
To further complicate things,the crew needed someone to stand
(19:01):
in for the killer's hand as itheld Bacon's head down, and they
settled on the photographerRichard Fury.
So after hours of setup in latexbuilding and planning, it was
finally time to shoot the scene.
And when the moment of truthcame, the hose for the blood
pump disconnected.
Knowing that he basically hadonly one take, otherwise they'd
have to build a new latexappliance and set everything up
(19:22):
again, the assistant grabbed thehose and blew into it until
blood flowed out, saving thescene.
I had to think quick.
So I grabbed the hose and blewlike crazy, which thankfully
caused a serendipitous arterialblood spray, the assistant said.
The blood didn't taste that badeither.
End quote.
SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
I think people would be amazed to find out how much
of Hollywood is achieved bypeople just like crouching and
just like doing a little task.
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
You're just out of frame and you're pumping or
you're blowing or you'reshaking.
Or you're holding a light.
And that's, you know, that'smovie magic.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
Yeah.
I mean it's true because likewhen you read this, you're like,
wow, this sounds like how wewould maybe do something.
I mean, the latex is kind ofbeyond us, but you know, how we
would do a practical effect aspeople, and it's just like,
yeah, sometimes the practicaleffects are the best way to do
it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
They usually are.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
CGI ages.
Yep.
Alice finally, so right, the oneremaining counselor, Alice
finally comes face to face withthe killer haunting the camp.
And spoiler alert, this is lasttime I'll say it, it turns out
to be Pamela Voorhees, Jason'smother.
Pamela was played by BetsyPalmer, but Shelley Winters was
the filmmaker's first choice.
(20:34):
Palmer ended up taking the partso that she could buy a new car.
What?
Yeah, she was kind of like thisfamous like old school Hollywood
actress.
And yeah, I just thought it wasinteresting.
Like when you Google her, youshe has these like glamorous
beauty shots of herself fromlike you know the 50s.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Is this her most notable role?
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
When I looked at her list of films, I didn't
recognize many others, but Ifeel like my mom would, you
know, like someone who reallyknows a lot of like the golden
era of Hollywood.
Got it.
But Palmer didn't play the rolefor the whole movie.
Several other crew membersstepped in until Palmer was
cast.
Because she was really there forthe ending.
SPEAKER_01 (21:10):
Until she was cast.
unknown (21:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
So like there's like a few moments where you see a
movement or a figure and theyjust I understand, but like were
they filming without casting?
I think that's crazy.
I think so.
They're trying to get ShellyWinters.
So Mrs.
Voorhees is seeking revenge oncounselors because she blames
the camp counselors who didn'tproperly supervise her son when
he drowned.
(21:33):
And in a wonderfully shockingending, Alice actually manages
to kill Mrs.
Voorhees, becoming the solesurvivor and final girl.
As she is floating in a canoe onthe lake, the figure of a
monstrous little boy jumps fromthe lake and pulls her off the
canoe.
But she doesn't die.
SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
Well, right, because that's uh it's a hallucination.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Yeah, it's a dream sequence sort of hallucination
thing, which will happen copioustimes in this franchise.
SPEAKER_01 (22:01):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (22:02):
It's really, I would say, one of the strongest themes
in the franchise.
That and recaps.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
The strongest theme of the entire franchise, hands
down, is a blatant, unapologetichatred of teenagers.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Especially teenagers with boobs.
Anyone who shows their breasts,they're dead.
Or anyone who enjoys breasts,they're dead too.
It's really like one of thosemovies when you think about like
classic horror from this time.
There's a lot of that, right?
Like teenagers get punished fordoing drugs, for drinking, for
having sex.
This is exactly that.
Verbatim.
(22:38):
Yep.
The pious survive, right?
So Alice wakes up in thehospital and it leaves us
somewhat unsure of what happenedto Jason.
Was that a hallucination?
Was it not a hallucination?
Was not.
Wait, it was.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
Wait, I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
Was it's not defined.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
She that happens and then she wakes up and we don't
know.
Like, did that happen or did shedream that in the hospital?
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
Or was she just a drunk teenager?
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
The twist ending of Jason coming out of the lake
didn't exist in the originalscript.
It was actually the makeupartist, Tom Savini, who
suggested the ending.
He was inspired by the endingjump scare in Carrie.
Savini and his team used thepizza ovens at the camp, just a
fun fact, to bake the latexneeded for the special effects
in makeup.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
The writer, Victor Miller, was pretty upset with
the filmmakers that they decidedto center Jason as the killer in
subsequent sequels.
Quote, Jason was dead from thevery beginning.
He was a victim, not a villain,end quote.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
Disagree.
Yeah.
But I've seen the other movies.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
What a cranky writer.
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
Jokes on you.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
The film opened on May 9th, 1980.
SPEAKER_01 (23:41):
It's not called Friday the 13th, Mom Takes
Manhattan.
Good point, Alan.
It's not called Mom vs.
Freddy.
It's not called Oh, FinalFriday, Mom Goes to Hell.
Right.
But that's a movie I'd watch.
Or Mom X.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
The film opened on May 9th, 1980.
Variety did not love the movie,writing that it quote, has
nothing to exploit but its titleand whatever Oomph Paramount
puts into the marketingcampaign, end quote.
But it opened on 1127 theaters,and boy did Cunningham prove
Variety wrong.
The first film in the franchisegrossed almost 68 million
(24:18):
worldwide, 59.8 million.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Compared Is that adjusted for inflation?
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Adjusted for inflation, it's like 238
billion.
What?
Yeah.
Holy cow.
Compared to its budget ofsomewhere between 500,000 and
700,000.
I'm sorry, 238 billion?
Alright, fact-checking myself.
I did this calculation before westarted, but I didn't write it
down.
Okay, so no.
60 million in 1980 is roughly236 million today.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
I see.
SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
Just me exaggerating as always.
Regardless, it was a massivesuccess.
One of the most profitablehorror movies of all time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
Can you imagine making one movie and then having
more GDP than a lot ofcountries?
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
Yeah, that's crazy.
For Paramount, only one filmfrom 1980 did better
financially, and that wasAirplane.
SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
It's a great movie.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
The entire series would go on to include 12 films
in total.
It would spin off a televisionseries, video games, novels, and
comic books.
Jason would become just as, orin some cases, maybe even more
recognizable than Michael Myers.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
The second film in the franchise was released a
year later in 1981.
This time the movie was directedby Steve Miner.
This was Miner's featuredirectorial debut.
He would also direct the thirdinstallment, House from 1985,
Halloween H2O, Lake Placid, andDay of the Dead from 2008.
Lake Placid?
Yeah.
Heck yeah.
And Halloween H2O.
(25:40):
It's a good one.
Similar to Sean S.
Cunningham, Miner also worked onThe Last House on the Left as a
PA and a personal assistant.
The bulk of the second filmpicks up the story five years
later.
We start again with Alice, ourfinal girl from the original,
who is struggling to move onafter the massacre that she
experienced.
But despite being the finalgirl, she is killed by Jason
(26:01):
pretty quickly into the sequel,finally confirming that he is
alive, well, and a killer,right?
So we know that even if that wasa hallucination or whatever it
is, he actually is a threat.
I have a question.
Okay, hit me.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
And I mean, this only dawned on me far later in
the series.
But he dies as a little kid.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
And then he comes out of the lake as an adult.
No.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
No.
This I actually have a noteabout this too.
He dies as a little kid, right?
He drowns in the lake.
When he jumps out of the lake atthe end of the first movie, he's
in the body of a little boy.
Right.
Then when we are introduced toJason for the first time, at the
beginning of the second film,he's an adult.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:48):
That's if there's a five-year difference between the
end of the first film and thestart of the second.
So we have to assume that he wassome sort of like living lake
creature monster that was alittle boy and then in five
years became an adult man, abroad-shouldered adult man.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
I think they actually address this in part
two, where they say how he livesin his little house.
He didn't actually die in thelake.
He almost died, and now he justlives in the woods.
Something like that.
And now, yeah, he's just likethis crazy feral kid in a man's
body because he's just beenliving by himself eating like
(27:25):
squirrels and shit.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Yeah, so maybe we're led to believe that the kid that
comes out of the lake next tothe canoe in the end of one was
a hallucination, right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:35):
Yep.
And then it isn't until later inthe franchise when he
effectively becomessupernatural.
Very similar to Halloween.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, we know exactly when that happens.
That will be in the next part.
Okay, so Jason kills Alice,right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
It's impossible to tell who's who.
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Yeah, truly.
After this, we return to CampCrystal Lake, and in a similar
scene to the first film, wewatch as camp counselors arrive
for training.
The plot is that the all theselike will be one day camp
counselors come together for atraining to learn how to be camp
counselors.
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
Right, and frickin' Slo McGee over there shows up
with her car all late.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
Yeah, the girlfriend.
And then she becomes kind of thelead woman of the movie, Ginny.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
So disrespectful.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
Yeah, it is.
Her boyfriend's pissed.
Her boyfriend Paul is the guywho's kind of in charge.
So the story of Jason is sharedat a campfire tale that night,
right?
Described in detail by PaulHolt, who is the head counselor.
And again, similar to the firstmovie, these counselors in
training start to be killed oneby one in cold blood, as Jason
makes his way methodicallythrough the lot of them.
(28:35):
In the sequel, we meet Ginny,Paul's girlfriend, who
eventually becomes the finalgirl.
She stumbles into Jason's shrineto his dead mother, which also
includes his mother'sdecapitated head.
Classic.
She impersonates Pamela Voorheesand confuses Jason or convinces
him enough to survive.
SPEAKER_01 (28:52):
In one of the most bold strategies in the history
of strategies.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
This strategy play comes up again later.
It sure does.
So part two also ends with ajump scare.
When we think Paul and Ginnywill survive, Jason bursts
through a window and attacks onefinal time.
He isn't wearing his mask inthis movie.
His face is covered for themajority of it, but he's not
wearing his hockey mask yet.
That comes in the next movie.
But we see in this scene when hebursts through because he's not
(29:18):
wearing anything how horrifyingand disfigured his face is.
Though Ginny survives, we don'tknow again what happens to
Jason.
SPEAKER_01 (29:25):
Yeah, he grew up eating squirrels.
You know, he has no dental work.
Uh his entire skincare regimenis lake water.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
It's not good.
It's not good.
Part two had a budget of 1.25million and went on to gross
21.7 million just in the U.S.
box office.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Great ROI.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
The second movie was filmed in a different location,
mostly in New Preston in Kent,Connecticut.
Similar to Halloween 2, Fridaythe 13th, 3 picks up right after
the events of the second movie.
We follow a group of youngfriends as they travel to
Higgins Haven, heading to like arural sort of Country house
trip, right, uh at this guy Chrthis kind of rural country house
(30:05):
trip with some, you know,teenage friends at this girl
Chris Higgins' farmhouse.
Chris hasn't been back to thisfarmhouse in a few years, and
we're sort of led to believethat she was attacked by Jason
here years previously.
As the fun unfolds, Chrisremains on high alert.
She's clearly uncomfortable andshe is kind of dealing with the
trauma that she experiencedhere.
(30:26):
And rightfully so, as we startto see Jason stalk the group and
kill locals.
This is in the town, right?
Yes.
He starts by killing that guy atthe convenience or the gas
station or whatever, until hegets closer to the farmhouse.
There is a weird, notablestandout in this movie, which is
a character named Shelly.
Shelly is always playing prankson the rest of the group,
(30:47):
especially gory pranks with fakemasks and blood.
He is clearly an outsider and hemakes the rest of the group feel
uncomfortable.
Especially this one girl that heis kind of like meant to be
matched up with, and she'sclearly horrified of him.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
I mean, everyone's horrified of him.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
There is a moment when Jason takes Shelly's prank
hockey mask for himself.
And this is the first time thatwe see Jason in his iconic
hockey mask, something thatstays with him for the rest of
the franchise.
Yep.
So that's where he gets it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:14):
The filmmakers must have known this is the look that
we want for him.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Yeah.
But also, like you needsomething to put on a poster.
You know, the first two movies,it's like you need a villain,
you need a Mike Myers, you needa Freddie Kruger.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
I wonder if the hockey mask was on the original
poster for part three.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
Yeah, I bet it was.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
Because it's not in one and two, obviously.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
But you know, the in posters often get retconned, you
know, and like the shifted,yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
As he tends to, Jason starts to kill the
teenagers one by one.
At the end of the movie, Chris,still alive, fights back.
She pulls off his mask andrealizes Jason was in fact the
person who attacked herpreviously.
She hits him in the head with anaxe and Jason seems to die, but
does he really?
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
One fun note about this injury, this axe injury.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
For many movies after this, he has the scar from
this axe.
That's cool.
I didn't notice that.
Uh he well, I mean, it's justlike a I mean, it's a fatal hit,
theoretically, you know.
If as fatal as you can get withthis immortal zombie guy.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
And every time you see Jason without his mask after
this, he has this giant gashover the left side of his head.
SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
Cool.
I like that.
The end of this movie mirrorsthe ending of the first.
The next day, Chris dreams,another common trope in these
movies, that Pamela Voorhees'dead, reanimated body springs
from the lake and pulls herunder.
Part three was originallyreleased in 3D.
It's also the first of theseries to be filmed on the West
Coast in California and not onthe East Coast.
(32:46):
Part three was released in 1982and was again directed by Steven
Minor.
The movie stars Dana Kimmel andPaul Crofta.
The movie grossed 36.7 millionin the US, compared to the
budget of 2.2 million.
Originally, the film's plot wasmeant to be totally different,
to focus on Ginny from part two,but the actress who played Ginny
(33:06):
refused to return, and a newconcept was developed.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
I wonder if that was for the best or not.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:12):
Part three for me is definitely one of the more
forgettable.
SPEAKER_00 (33:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
It just it blends so seamlessly.
Like you can watch one throughfour as one gigantic movie.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Uh you know, they just bl especially two through
four, just blend right in oneright into the next by by
design.
And it seems like with thisrewrite for part three, the
original idea was gonna be evenmore seamless.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:38):
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
Well, yeah, and the only standout of this is that
it's not on the lake, and Ithink that's why it feels
forgettable, also, too.
But totally, you could watchthese for which is why we're
grouping these together, andthey were it was one of those
things where they were like,okay, you know, obviously the
success of one was unexpected.
We're gonna do a trilogy.
So it was originally intended tobe three.
Then again, this one did sowell, right?
(34:00):
These ROIs are insane.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
They'll never let it die.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
That they did another one, and so then that
you have a group of four, andthen it's rebooted with five.
So yeah.
Part three was the secondhighest-grossing horror movie of
1982, second only toPoltergeist, which is really
impressive, right?
You have Poltergeist, which isagain one of the most iconic
horror movies of all time, andyou have part three of a slasher
franchise, which gets horriblereviews, but the people fucking
(34:24):
love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Well, well, hang on, Poltergeist is famous now, but
how many movies come out, don'tdo great, and then only become
cult classics after the homerelease?
But it did well.
It was the highest-grossinghorror film of the year.
Good point.
My point is bunk.
However, sequels usually makemoney, especially when the one
right before it was incrediblysuccessful.
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
Even if it's a total flop, people have to see it to
know that it's a flop.
This is pre-internet.
People can't just go on AOLInstant Messenger and talk to
your friends and find out ifit's gonna be a good movie or
not.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
True, they had to call them on the landline or
write them a letter at thispoint.
SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
To me, the fourth movie feels like the first
deviation in the series.
And deviations are gonna beflying fast and loose as we go
through the rest of thefranchise, but the fourth movie
seems to kind of have the firstdifferent focus a little bit.
Friday the 14th, 4, the finalchapter, L-O L, was directed by
Joseph Zito.
(35:25):
And I really I don't know, Ijust have this love for horror
franchises and films that arethe final chapter, the last,
whatever, and it's like four outof twelve.
I know.
Who are you kidding?
Tom Savini, the makeup artistfrom the original movie that
came up with the iconic ending,returned to four.
He wanted to help kill offJason, who he felt he had a hand
in creating.
SPEAKER_01 (35:46):
I think the biggest perpetrator of this would be the
Saw franchise when it's Saw, thefinal chapter, which is like
movie like 25, and then theyjust keep coming out after.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
How many Saw movies are there?
SPEAKER_01 (35:57):
There's not 25.
I think that's like Saw seven oreight or something.
Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:00):
Oof, Saw's rough for me.
So Friday the 13th, 4 wassupposed to be released in
October of 1984, but it wasmoved up to premiere in April.
April 13th, 1984, a Friday.
There we go.
There we go.
Took them four to figure it out.
The fourth installment grossed33 million in the US against its
(36:20):
budget of 2.2 million.
Like it's incredibly obvious whyParamount leans into this
franchise, right?
It just pretty good.
It prints money every singletime.
At the time, the movie was metwith negative reviews, but I
think it's fun.
And I think modern audiencesagree with me.
Like, I think you could watchany movie in this franchise and
you wouldn't be like, dang,there's something hugely fresh
(36:45):
or meaningful or some kind ofpractical effect that's so
unique.
Like there's nothing that blowsyou away, but every single movie
is fun to watch.
And I personally think they getmore fun as it goes on.
Like when they jump the sharkand get crazy, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Wholeheartedly agree.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
I had and I think also that's why maybe Halloween,
which is the best horrorfranchise of all time, but
scared me to watch.
Like I think Halloween isscarier than Friday the 13th to
me.
SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
Halloween movies are pretty serious.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
With some notable exceptions.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (37:17):
Friday 13th from the get-go is campy as fuck.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
Yeah.
And the more they lean into thatas the franchise goes on, the
more fun it is.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
I mean, it even it borderlines absurd at times.
Yeah.
And it's so fun.
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So if you recall, at the end ofFriday the 13th, 3, Jason has an
axe in his head.
And four, we meet him at themorgue.
But he wakes up, surprise,surprise, kills a nurse and a
coroner, and somehow finds hisway back to Camp Crystal Lake.
SPEAKER_01 (37:46):
This is the first time we see him officially
resurrect, right?
SPEAKER_00 (37:49):
Yeah, it is.
Nearby, there are two differentgroups that we start to follow.
One is a group of rowdyteenagers, I wonder what's going
to happen to them, staying for aweekend on the lake, and the
other is the Jarvis family wholives next door.
Tommy Jarvis, the little boy ofthe family, will go on to become
an important pillar of theFriday the 13th franchise.
He is a nerdy little boy playedby Corey Feldman who loves
(38:12):
monsters, masks, and specialeffects.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
This movie is great, by the way.
SPEAKER_00 (38:16):
Yeah, it is.
Again, they start to get betterat this point.
Jason first targets theteenagers, as he always does,
and he kills them one by one.
At some point, a newcomer namedRob appears, and we find out
that Rob is the brother of awoman who Jason kills in part
two.
And unfortunately, Rob suffersthe same fate as his sister.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah, again, names don't matter.
The people are here to be killedor do cool things while f
fighting Jason.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
Yep.
And even when you have likefinal girls and things in the
series, like usually at thebeginning of the next movie they
die.
Yep.
There's a few exceptions tothat, but very few.
They might survive a few movies,but they don't tend to live
forever.
SPEAKER_01 (38:58):
Then Lori comes in and just kicks ass.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:01):
You'd think people would maybe shut down this lake
or something, but no.
During the end of the movie,Tommy and his sister Trish are
running from Jason.
Tommy, similar to Ginny in theprevious films, has the truly
wild idea to shave his head tomake himself look like a young
Jason.
SPEAKER_01 (39:17):
It's insane.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
An insane sequence of scenes.
It's insane.
SPEAKER_01 (39:21):
Not even to try to convince a disturbed person that
they're the mother, but he'sgonna convince him that I'm you.
SPEAKER_00 (39:30):
I'm you.
And so he does like it's likethe scene in the Grinch.
He does like a hack job of likeshaving himself.
It's so crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
But and then it's like, I don't know.
We both thought at the time wesaw this that we're like, okay,
I understand they're gonna killJason, and this boy is gonna
become the new Jason.
SPEAKER_00 (39:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Nope.
It's just a really odd ploy.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
Yeah.
But guess what?
It confuses him, it works.
And Tommy is able to confuse himenough, disorient him enough
that he attacks him with amachete.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
I will say, I can't think of a single time in the
entire franchise where trying toconfuse Jason doesn't work.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Yeah, that's the best bet.
Keep that in mind as we movethrough this world.
So Tommy hits Jason over andover again with this machete as
Trish watches in horror as herlittle brother murders a
full-grown man with extremeviolence.
Tommy's iconic final look at thecamera leads us to believe that
maybe he's been possessed by thespirit of Jason or will somehow
(40:32):
become the next killer, whichwould have really been an
interesting plot line if theseries decided to stick with it.
But it didn't.
Nope.
We're going to pause herebecause the fifth movie comes in
the form of a series reboot.
And so, like Alan said, thesefirst four movies really, I
don't know, it's like they sortof stumble into the traits of
Jason one by one, right?
(40:53):
He's not even in the firstmovie.
In the second movie, he doesn'thave his mask yet.
Like it's kind of a slow burnbuild of his character and what
the backstory is.
SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
Which is kind of cool.
It adds something to it.
You're kind of collecting thepieces as you watch.
But now we've established whoJason is, what his motivation
is, and we're gonna sort of comeback with a vengeance.
And again, I typically I'msomeone who kind of fades out
after a few movies in a horrorfranchise.
I think Friday the 13th is oneof the few franchises for me
(41:23):
personally that I feel like getsbetter as you go.
And I there's something aboutlike to Alan's point, how campy
and j like how far these jumpthe shark as you go on that's so
satisfying and fun.
And while they're not as soulcrushing or as haunting, as
scary as other horrorfranchises, it's unique in that
(41:44):
way.
Like I'm genuinely having ablast watching these.
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
I will say this is a rare situation where the sequels
are getting more money, bettertalent.
SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
All these resources funneled towards them, where
it's usually the opposite.
Where, you know, but by the timeyou hit the third or fourth
movie in all in almost anyfranchise, it's usually some
kind of cash grab, uh, wherethey want to spend as little as
possible because they know theyjust want to cash in quick and
get out.
In this case, they're pumpingstuff in and they're trying
(42:18):
really hard to make them fun,and they're doing a great job.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
It feels so good to be back.
Thank you guys again for bearingwith us as we had to tend to
some life things for a littlewhile, but it feels really good
to be back and feels like we'rein our skin again.
I'm so pumped for this series.
I'm having such a blast, and weare gonna do a stories episode
at the end of this.
We have some really great camphorror stories to share with you
(42:43):
guys.
So stay tuned.
This is gonna be probably afour-part series.
Go watch these movies, watchalong all October.
That's kind of the idea.
If you're looking for somethingto watch and to get into the
spooky mindset, I highlyrecommend Friday the 13th.
Also, for anyone out there who'son our Discord, or you can find
the link to our Discord in thedescription of this, our friend
(43:05):
Dan is doing something for thethird year in a row now, where
anybody who wants can go intothis Google Doc that Dan has
created, make a little columnfor yourself, and start tracking
all of the horror movies you'rewatching.
This is an honor system.
It's fun to look back at theyears previous, but go track as
you watch horror films thismonth, and whoever watches the
(43:25):
most tends to get a littleprize.
So that's a fun thing that we doevery year.
As always, thank you so much forbeing here.
We are so excited for thisseries.
It is only gonna get better,right?
To me, this is like the basics,and then the next two episodes
are gonna be so fun.
Stay spooky, stay well.
It's a scary time out there, theworld is burning around us, but
you know what they say.
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
What do they say?
SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
That's when you need horror the most.
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:49):
Love you guys.
Talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_01 (43:51):
Bye.
Bye.
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