May 18, 2024 • 35 mins
Ever found yourself pondering the secret sauce that makes relationships tick? Well, Sandy and I invite you on a journey to discover just that. With laughter, love, and a dash of wisdom from our own marriage, we tackle the intricate dance between equity and equality in partnerships. We've all heard that relationships should be 50-50, but what happens when life throws a curveball that demands a different approach? Through laughter and candid stories, we share how embracing each partner's unique strengths and challenges can lead to a more harmonious and supportive bond.
Who knew that our playful pup Jax could teach us a thing or two about fairness in love? His antics bring to light the essence of today's discussion, as we navigate the differences between equal and equitable treatment within our marriage. From who handles the finances to the division of household chores, we dissect the importance of customizing roles to suit each other’s needs, rather than sticking to a rigid formula. This episode will guide you through the necessary steps of collaboration, communication, and mutual respect that are vital in ensuring both partners feel valued and heard.
Wrapping up, we reflect on the delicate balance of power when it comes to one partner earning the bacon while the other manages the home front. Our chat goes beyond the mundane tasks and zeroes in on the crucial role of empathy and understanding in acknowledging each person's contribution to the relationship, monetary or not. By the end of our heart-to-heart, you'll be equipped with the insights needed to craft a partnership where both you and your beloved can flourish. So, pull up a chair, lend us your ears, and let's redefine what it means to be just and loving companions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best
policy?
How do you balance what youwant versus what you need, and
is there something you need tosay to your spouse but can't
find the right way to say it?
If so, then you're in the rightplace.
This is the Lunch with Sandypodcast.
With nearly 20 years ofmarriage under their belts,
Terrance and Sandy Jacksondiscuss a range of topics,
(00:22):
provide valuable insights onrelationships and talk about the
conversations married couplesneed to have.
So what does lunch have to dowith all of this?
Well, it's a metaphor for howthese conversations originally
started.
Speaking of conversations,let's get one going.
Here's your hosts, Terrance andSandy.
Terrance (00:44):
Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast, where we delve intovarious topics and offer
insights from the perspective ofa married couple.
I'm Terrance.
Sandy (00:53):
And I'm Sandy.
Terrance (00:54):
And today we will be discussing equality versus
equity in the context of arelationship.
But before we dive into that,please remember to follow the
Lunch with Sandy podcast on yourfavorite podcasting app.
Also, be sure to follow theshow on all social media
platforms.
At Lunch with Sandy.
(01:14):
Speaking of Sandy, she's overthere petting Jax.
Jax is wondering what happenedto his podcast, the Rough Life,
which never got off the ground.
Sandy (01:28):
What's going on in your head today, Sandy?
That?
Terrance (01:31):
Jax is so needy.
Jax is very needy Jax.
He's been following me aroundall morning and then at some
point he always just decides youknow what?
I'm going to lay down at thebottom of the stairs and pretend
like nobody cares about meuntil somebody else wakes up At
the bottom of the stairs andpretend like nobody cares about
me until somebody else wakes up.
Sandy (01:46):
That's probably exactly what happened, because I came
down the stairs and there he waswagging his tail.
Terrance (01:53):
Every morning I have to tell him all right, jax, I'm
not petting you, lay downsomewhere, he'll come sit right
between my legs, sit there andjust lean up on me and take his
head and put it on my hand.
Sandy (02:07):
I'm like jacks, you got to go lay down somewhere.
He's looking at you, but that'sexactly what he's doing.
He keeps putting his head on mylap like I'm not giving him any
attention jacks is sayingthere's no equity in this
relationship that we actuallyhave here yeah, he's right, he
doesn't give me the love I givehim.
Terrance (02:27):
Well this is why we're going to be talking about
equity versus equality in thecontext of relationship.
And let me tell you how all ofthis started.
I was at work the other day andwe were having a conversation
about how some things arestandard, so they're equal
across the board for everyoneand I made this point.
I said listen.
I said the challenge is,everyone here is talking about
(02:48):
equality.
And I said equality looks ateveryone and says okay, well,
I'm going to give you the sametreatment and I said, in some
cases we got to talk aboutequity and it got me to thinking
.
You know, in most relationships,I think it's fair that the goal
is everyone wants a balanceddynamic where both parties
(03:10):
contribute to the relationshipequally, would you agree?
Most of the time, however,though, it's not as
straightforward as it seems.
I want to talk today about howdifferences can affect the way
that we relate to one another,and in that sense, it could be a
(03:33):
challenge to the notion offairness or equality.
So I just want to touch on whatit means to be in a
relationship that is equitable.
But before we do that, let'sdefine the difference between
(03:55):
equality and equity as itpertains to a relationship,
right?
Ok, what does equality mean toyou in the context of a
relationship?
Sandy (04:09):
And I hope you read these notes, because now I'm putting
you on blast.
Now you threw me off.
Terrance (04:17):
That's OK.
Sandy (04:19):
What was the question?
Terrance (04:20):
Man, I got to keep you on your feet.
What does equality?
Sandy (04:26):
mean to you in the context of a relationship.
It means that each party isputting in the same level of
effort.
Terrance (04:36):
I'll accept that.
Sandy (04:37):
As the other.
Terrance (04:41):
And that's not it.
I love how you had the pausethere as the other.
Sandy (04:46):
And decision making.
It's a 50-50.
Terrance (04:50):
Is this question making you nervous?
Sandy (04:52):
No, why.
Terrance (04:52):
Because you keep bopping your leg, you get that
nervous twitch going on again.
Sandy (04:57):
It's not a nervous switch .
I always bop in my leg.
Terrance (04:59):
I just don't know how to sit still, it's very
distracting when I see a slippercoming out of the side of my
eye just going up and down, upand down.
Sandy (05:06):
I'll switch feet.
How's that Well?
Terrance (05:07):
don't kick the table, all right.
So I'll accept that definition,not that it's your definition
anyway.
Announcer (05:14):
Thank you for your acceptance.
Terrance (05:16):
So where do you think equity differs?
In the context, in that samecontext, in that same context.
Sandy (05:23):
So when I'm thinking of relationships, I'm thinking
equity to me is more like Idon't need to make a decision on
this, you go ahead and take it.
That to me is equity.
(05:51):
I guess that works in a sense.
So so it's like we don't haveto be equal like it's.
It's a situation where itdoesn't need to be 50 50 and
debate it out right and come toa mutual.
Terrance (06:00):
It sounds like you're saying I got equity built up.
Like you know, I've been payingon this mortgage or this
relationship.
Sandy (06:06):
Well, no, it's like OK, we have to buy a new TV.
Go ahead and take this one,because you know technology is
more your strength.
There you go.
That's what I was looking forAll right.
Terrance (06:16):
So when, when I talk about equality, there are a
couple of things that come tomind, a couple of things that I
think that you know many peoplefocus on, couple things that
come to mind, a couple thingsthat I think that you know many
people focus on, and I think I'mgoing to name those three
things and then I'm going to getto just a very brief definition
of what I think those thingsare right.
The first thing that comes tomind is fair treatment.
The second thing that comes tomind is uniformity in some sense
(06:38):
, and then, lastly, you know,from an approach perspective,
being standard, right, when wetalk about fair treatment, it's
that notion that everyone'streated the same, regardless of
circumstance or need, and that'spretty much the definition of,
you know, fairness.
When we talk about uniformity,it's, you know, basically,
(07:03):
uniformity or sameness indistribution.
When we talk about resources,responsibilities and
opportunities, and then thatlast one, you know, the standard
approach is basically everyonestarts from the same baseline
and receives the same treatmentand receives the same treatment.
(07:23):
So, if I had to think about anexample and I'm going to use
this example because currentlywe have some people who might be
vertically challenged in thishouse.
So an example of that contextof equality if I were to say,
(07:52):
okay, well, everyone gets a onefoot stool so they can reach the
top cabinet In the top shelf,in the cabinet in the kitchen,
that's essentially saying, ok,well, that's being equal,
everyone's being treated equal.
There is the same baseline, theapproach is the same, the
treatment is the same.
While equality is essentially,you know, that basic form of
fairness, it doesn't always leadto an equitable outcome because
(08:17):
people have differentbackgrounds, needs and
circumstances.
So when, when, when I talkabout equity, I think of the
following right, so when we talkabout that, we mentioned fanish
fairness and you know thatequality piece.
So equity, I would say we talkabout fairness based on need,
(08:43):
and then I'm going to do thesame thing as I did for the
first three in equality I'mgoing to define these and then
I'll go back to give moreinsight as to what I mean.
We talk about fairness based onneed, we talk about
customization, we talk aboutaddressing disparities and we
talk about emphasis on justice,right?
(09:04):
Yep, so fairness based on need,it focuses on distributing
those resources, opportunitiesand that same stuff we talked
about in being equality, youknow, like support and things
like that in a way that's fair,based on individual
circumstances, needs andabilities.
(09:26):
So it's not a situation whereit's OK, well, one solution fits
everybody, right, right, onesolution fits everybody Right,
right Customization it basicallylooks at tailoring whatever it
is that you need to do, whetherit's support resources to
(09:49):
address specific inequalities orbarriers that individuals face
Now.
Like my shortness.
We're going to get to yourvertical, the challenge that you
face vertically right when wetalk about addressing
(10:24):
disparities, that's, recognizingthat different individuals or
groups may require differentlevels of support or
accommodations to achieve thesame outcomes that someone else
may be able to achieve withoutthat same level of support.
And then, lastly, you know, Imentioned emphasis on justice.
So when we talk about beingequitable, we prioritize being
fair and being just, even if itmeans deviating from you know,
that equal distribution in favorof addressing underlying
inequalities.
So let me go back to the same,To the same example that I used
(10:48):
earlier when I was talking aboutthe top shelf.
And I was talking about the topshelf.
So if I wanted to be equitable,what I would do then?
What I would do is I'd say,okay, well, based on your height
, I'm going to customize a stoolfor you to use so you actually
can reach that top shelf in thatcabinet, regardless of the fact
(11:12):
that you're four foot two.
Sandy (11:19):
And I'm not saying you're four foot two.
I know you were going to comeat me with that.
Definitely not at least fourfoot two.
But yeah, or although I justlike it better where I just call
you to come get whatever I need.
Terrance (11:28):
I mean, I might not always be around so oftentimes
you hear people talk aboutequality and equity and it's not
in the context of arelationship, it's in whether
you're talking about jobs,whether you're talking about pay
(11:49):
.
Well, jobs and pay, you know, Iguess you can separate those,
but housing and things like thatwhen you speak about actually,
I don't often hear people speakabout having equity in a
relationship, but when you talkabout it, that means that you
have to be able to recognizeeach other's needs, strengths,
(12:10):
challenges and weaknesses needs,strengths, challenges and
weaknesses because that is theonly way then you can begin to
actually address what thosedifferences are, so you can make
a relationship truly equitable.
So why do you think it is thatyou don't hear people talk about
that in the context of arelationship?
Sandy (12:32):
I don't think people actually try to define the
differences.
But you know, I I feel like alot of complaints come from I do
this and you don't right, so,um, so they're always looking
for like that type of equalitybecause they want their partner
(12:52):
to.
Terrance (12:52):
You know, you just said the word they want their
partner to you know, you justsaid the word they want their
partner to be equal Right, yeah,so they don't really think
about okay, yeah, I might dothis, but you do that.
Announcer (13:08):
Yeah.
Sandy (13:08):
Right, and instead of rotating responsibilities, you
both see the equity in both ofthe things that you do and to
that it's similar, so you don'tneed to do this.
So I don't know.
For example, I'm trying tothink of something within the
(13:30):
house.
Oh okay, so I do the banking,right, yeah?
Terrance (13:34):
Except for the business account.
But yes, yeah, we got to putmore money in there by the house
.
Oh, okay, so I do the bankingright?
Yeah, except for the businessaccount.
But yes, yeah, we got to putmore money in there, by the way,
funds are running low.
Sandy (13:40):
So, anyhow, you know I do the majority of the banking and
that's just because you know itcomes easy to me.
Terrance (13:50):
It's not to say it doesn't come easy to me.
Sandy (13:51):
No, I know, I just don't like it yeah and hence I just do
it and, but yet you will doother things, like around the
house and things of that nature,you know.
So it's it's not like we needto flip-flop who does and who
(14:11):
pays the bills and does thebanking this?
Terrance (14:14):
month versus next month, because you know to me
the equity is offset by otherthings that you do yeah, and I
think that I think the challengefor some people and I mean it
could be a challenge for us alsoyou know, we never had
conversations about that yeah,and it's just one of those
things where we just accept itas as it is and we never really
(14:35):
look at okay, well, do we needto play off, not play off one
another?
Do we need to meet each otherin different spaces to make
things equitable?
Equitable, and again, wehaven't had that issue.
I just think that a lot ofpeople don't think about equity
(14:56):
when they talk aboutrelationship, not to say that
they don't have it.
I don't think that there's alot of conversations and so the
question becomes okay, well,we've now defined the difference
between equality and equity,how do you actually reach that
in an actual relationship?
Sandy (15:14):
how do you actually reach that in an actual relationship?
So that's kind of tough,because I feel like equality
becomes more of an issue if bothof you don't like what it is.
Like.
That you know, I'm thinkingspecifically, for you know
things that you both have to do.
You know in the relationship,things that you both have to do.
(15:40):
You know in the relationship.
I think equality becomes anissue when neither one of you
likes to do it.
Well, you know what.
So, say, neither one of us liketo do banking, who's gonna do
the banking?
I feel like at that point,jacks right.
It becomes more of like oh well, we need to be equal in this
respect, because I don't likedoing it, you don't like doing
it, and so you know that equitypiece of it is kind of out the
(16:03):
window.
Terrance (16:05):
Yeah.
So you know, and this is whereI think we've beaten this home
in almost every episode thatwe've had this is where
communication and collaborationcomes into effect, and the
reason why I say that is youknow, again, I don't think that
(16:25):
many people have the discussion,but you have to have the
discussion Right, because wealways talk about, everyone
talks about being equal, and I'mtalking about in partnerships,
with relationships I want tokeep this to the context of a
relationship, but I don't thinkwe have enough conversations
about what our different needsare or our different abilities.
(16:47):
I mean, again, we talk aboutthe banking.
That's something you do.
You have that ability.
It's not to say that I couldn'tdevelop that ability or don't
necessarily have that ability,but that is an area where you
know you're off and you're in,you're running with that.
If it's a situation where weboth don't want to do something,
or if you're, it's a situationwhere two people don't want to
do something, the questionbecomes okay, well, is there
(17:09):
something within that personthat is keeping them from being
able to perform whatever thatresponsibility is for one reason
or another, and is it just ah,you know, I don't like doing it,
or is it something within them,that is, keeping them or, you
know, again stopping them frombeing able to grab onto that and
(17:33):
do it without having some sortof issue internally with it.
Sandy (17:38):
Yeah Well, it makes me think of cooking.
I enjoy cooking, but I hatecooking at the same time.
You hate?
Terrance (17:49):
it.
Sandy (17:51):
Well, what I hate is coming up with what I want to
cook.
Terrance (17:57):
Yeah, I see.
Sandy (18:00):
And sometimes I feel like I just don't have enough time
to cook the things I do want tocook.
So it ends up becoming where Istruggle and I start disliking
it to some degree because youknow you being too go ahead,
struggle and I start dislikingit to some degree because you
(18:21):
know one is the time and thentwo it's having to like, think
about it and prepare for it.
Terrance (18:23):
I think I'm gonna solve your problem.
Uh-huh, stop trying to havebougie dishes, just have some
plain dishes listen, you mightlike having the same thing over
and over me.
Sandy (18:32):
I need a little bit more variety.
Terrance (18:33):
Consistency is the key to life.
No, so I think that you know wetalked about responsibilities
and you're talking aboutresponsibilities now.
I think that when two peopleare talking, or if two people
are having the discussion aboutbeing equal and being equitable,
when they start talking aboutshared responsibilities, they
(18:54):
should be taking intoconsideration what's equitable
for each person.
Not being equal, because, again, when we talk about equity,
we're talking about making surethat we recognize another
person's needs, challenges andobstacles, so we can make things
equitable from the perspectiveof we may not be doing the same
(19:17):
amount of things, right.
Sandy (19:19):
Yeah.
Terrance (19:21):
But we're putting ourselves in a position so
everything is equitable andthat's going to lead us to a
more pleasant shared experiencewhen we talk about being in that
actual relationship.
Sandy (19:36):
Yeah, and so it would be like I don't know if I'm
thinking of like the cookingperspective.
It's like equitable means thatyou know you cook three days a
week, I cook three days a week.
We do take out one day a weekand your level of meals has to
be the same.
Terrance (19:56):
Par, that's not, that's not being equitable,
because you're only no becauseyou're only thinking about
yourself.
You're not thinking about theneeds and recognizing needs of
the other person I thought thatwas the equity no, we mean that
was I mean yeah so I wasthinking about equality.
Sandy (20:12):
So equality is like I cook three days, you cook three
days, take out one day and thelevel of our meals are identical
so like we can't do.
Terrance (20:25):
I'm trying to think of something like hot dogs one
night and I've never made youhot no I know, I'm just saying
for this example and I'm makinglike a beef wellington, neither
one do we eat, but other thanthat you know, see, and this is
why you have to haveconversations, because I could
say my definition of equalitywould be I cook two days a week,
(20:48):
you cook two days a week, weorder out one day a week and the
rest you're on your own.
I think a big part of it comesdown to this.
I think recognizing thechallenges and I don't want to
say challenges, but the otherresponse you have to recognize
that each person is different,and that's where the equity
piece comes in, because you know, from an equality standpoint
(21:09):
you can say things aren't equal,but from an equity standpoint
things could be very equitablebecause that individual person
may have different needs orchallenges that you need to
recognize.
Sandy (21:19):
That's what I was going to bring up right.
So, like thinking about thatcooking dinner situation, you
know what happened.
It doesn't leave room, like yousaid, for customization.
What happens?
If I want to go out one night,then I'm supposed to be partying
too much?
Terrance (21:36):
go ahead.
Sandy (21:37):
That's not true you just can't go on to dinner with me as
much as I want to.
Um.
So like what, if I want to goout one night, you know, and
it's my night to cook?
What does that mean?
Does that mean I have to cookyou a meal before I?
Terrance (21:52):
go out.
Sandy (21:52):
It should, but I'm flexible so that doesn't have to
happen right, but that's kindof like the equity, like oh, the
equity is more like oh well,you know, let's, let's switch
days or something like that, ordon't worry about it.
You know, I, I got it covered.
Yeah, go ahead.
And you know, enjoy your mealout.
Terrance (22:11):
Yeah, the other thing that you know needs to be
considered when you're talkingabout truly having a equal and
equitable relationship is thepower dynamics, and we've had a
conversation in the past aboutpower and whether or not a
person who makes more money, youknow but and power dynamics,
(22:34):
you know they influence thedistribution of resources and
responsibilities in arelationship.
So can you think of an unequalpower dynamic that can impact
the ability to achieve equalityand equity in a relationship?
I just gave you one too.
I gave you a layup.
Sandy (22:53):
Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say.
I'm thinking even more from theperspective of, like, a
stay-at-home parent where theother parent works, you know.
So that stay-at-home parent,their job, is being home, right,
but then you know that parentwho is out of the house working,
could come home and be like,well, what did you do all day?
(23:15):
like you know, do all day not tosay that that would happen, but
it's a possibility right, andyou know the stay-at-home
parents like, well, I've beenhurting these kids all day and
then trying to make the houselook reasonably clean before
they come home.
(23:35):
You know like the job is thechildren, but yet I feel like
sometimes that might be likeoverlooked as a job because
there's no monetary yeah.
Terrance (23:48):
And this is why, that's a good point and this is
why the three points that we'veactually mentioned before all
play together.
This is why you got to haveconversations, because if the
decision is made that one personis going to be a stay at home
parent and take care of thehousehold and the other person
is going to go out into theworkforce, ok, well, you know
(24:09):
you are sharing responsibilities, because if that person is not
taking care of the household,then who is that person?
That person's not going outinto the workforce, who is?
The conversation needs tohappen.
And then, when you talk about,okay, well, if that's the
decision that you make, is itequitable?
You have to look at eachindividual and recognize where
(24:32):
they are, who they are, whattheir needs are and how you can
actually support one another.
Recognize where they are, whothey are, what their needs are
and how you can actually supportone another.
Because then, if it is, we knowthat that power dynamic is
going to exist.
But if you've had theseconversations, if you talked
about these sharedresponsibilities and you have
(24:57):
assessed and recognized whereeach other are, each person is,
then the power dynamic shouldn'timpact your ability to be equal
and equitable.
But if you haven't had thoseconversations.
If you haven't, you know, goneover the responsibilities and
shared responsibilities, thenthat could be a real issue.
Sandy (25:14):
Yeah, it could be.
And then even for I think youwere going down this path even
for the decision-making right,like the person who is going
into the workforce could be like, well, I want to buy, I want to
go buy this right, and the oneat home is like I don't think we
should buy that right nowbecause you know we have other
(25:35):
priorities and you know they tryto play the power move, like I
don't think we should buy thatright now because you know we
have other priorities and youknow they try to play the power
move, like well, it's my money.
Terrance (25:41):
It's my money, I make it.
Sandy (25:43):
So you can't tell me what to do or how to spend it.
Terrance (25:46):
And that's when they say I pay the bills, we got
bills to pay, and that leads tothis big argument and they have
a term marriage and they getdivorced.
Announcer (25:58):
There you go.
Terrance (26:10):
I think and this plays into it too we've talked about
you know, being able toempathize with.
You know your partners.
I think building empathy andunderstanding plays a big role
in being able to be in arelationship that is not just
equal but also equitable.
You know everything.
You know we talk about howrelationships, marriages, it's
all work, it's continuous.
Everything has to be able tosee things through their eyes
(26:39):
and understand what it is thatthey're thinking, understand
what it is that they're goingthrough, understand what it is
when they start talking abouttheir values and recognizing
their strengths and weaknesses.
That's not something that justhappens, it has to be cultivated
.
That's not something that justhappens, it has to be cultivated
.
And when you go through thatprocess and it's a process
(27:01):
that's over time you come todevelop that understanding, you
gain that ability to empathizewith them.
So when you have thatcombination of those two whether
it's going out buying a TV or abike or whatever not that any
of that stuff happens here, no,it makes it easier for you to
(27:25):
reach that point where, okay,well, we have an understanding.
I, I see where this person iscoming from and at the same time
, it makes it that much moreeasier to have the conversation,
to say, hey, listen, you canget the bike, but you can't get
the tv I think it comes down tohaving the equality when it's
(27:48):
important and having the equitywhen it's kind of like the
day-to-day stuff.
You should have equity at alltimes.
I think it's quality when it'simportant equity day-to-day
stuff.
Sandy (28:01):
Well, because, like yeah to your point, you know, I feel
like our relationship is bothright and they should and most
should be.
It depends on the situationright, like we have the equality
on the decision making, unlessone of us decides to forfeit I'm
(28:25):
not to forfeit no decisions Ihave, like you know, I've told
you do whatever you want, like,but that wasn't it you can't say
I've told you do whatever youwant, and say you forfeited it.
That's me forfeiting my.
Terrance (28:40):
you know my Well no because that's you saying no,
we've had this conversationbefore.
You can, when we talk about,say what you mean.
If you say, do whatever youwant, that's the same thing as
saying no, I don't want you todo that.
Sandy (28:49):
No, well, all right, so maybe okay, so I forfeited my
decision.
Terrance (28:52):
So I want to make sure that people understand what
you're saying.
Sandy (28:56):
You get whatever it is that you think is right.
Terrance (29:00):
Yes, that's different.
That's not forfeiting.
What that is is saying OK, Iunderstand that this is your
area right here, I defer to youbecause I trust that you're
going to make the right decision.
That's a big difference than Iforfeit.
Sandy (29:13):
Do whatever you want a big difference, then I forfeit,
do whatever you want.
I mean, like you know, my 50percent of the decision making.
I, I, you know that's what Imean.
I renounce it, go ahead, yougot a hundred percent, all you,
I think.
Terrance (29:27):
I think one of the mistakes that people make too is
, I think people get attachedtoo much to 50 50 because, yeah,
a true relationship is not50-50.
There's going to be some dayswhere it's 30-70, 40-60 because,
again, everyone's not going tohave their best day every day,
right, and if you stuck to that,well, everything has to be
(29:48):
50-50.
When that person's not pullingtheir weight, you're cutting the
cord, and that's not how itshould be.
So, from that perspective,right, and that's not how it
should be.
So, from that perspective,tying that back into equality
and equity and I'll focus onthat equality piece We've got to
remember a union is somethingthat is there to support and
(30:08):
build each other up, and you'vegot to understand that there are
going to be days where it's not50 50.
There might be a day or twowhere it's zero and a hundred,
but that shows the strength ofit could even elapse to a week.
(30:29):
Yeah, well, it could.
We don't want it to do that,but it could.
And I think that when we talkabout these things and we talk
about how to achieve thesethings, I think it's all about
continuous growth and reflection.
I think that you don'tnecessarily wake up and
everything's going to be fair,equitable or equal.
You got to work at these thingsand I think that it takes time,
(30:50):
and it takes you looking atyourself, because it's easy to
look at someone else and say,hey, you suck.
Sandy (30:57):
You're not pulling your weight.
Terrance (30:58):
But you've got to look at yourself and reflect on who
you are, how you move and howyou interact with people, and I
think that that takes effort.
So let me ask you this questionDo you have any strategies that
you would employ towardsworking towards greater equality
and equity in relationships?
Sandy (31:20):
That's a tough one because I feel like our
relationship just kind of fellinto a groove, but at the same
time it took a while.
Terrance (31:32):
It didn't just fall into a groove.
Sandy (31:33):
No, but to your point.
I don't know if we really satthere and discussed every point
which may have helped kind ofspeed things up a little bit, I
guess.
Terrance (31:44):
But you know, I think we have had conversations, so
you know about things as they'vekind of arisen, you, know, yes,
and I was hoping that you weredrawn to 20 years of actually
it's more than 20 years now, uh,well, not yet well over 20
years of of marriage, uh, andcome up with a strategy that you
(32:06):
can shed some light on theseyoungins out there who are
trying to get through, but Ithink, working I think it's
figuring out like where yourstrengths and weaknesses are and
kind of talking about it, notjust yours.
I think that's part of it.
Sandy (32:19):
Well, I mean yours, like both of yours.
Terrance (32:21):
Yeah.
Like not just one person's, butyeah, I think the challenge is
you know, you have to make surethat you're in it for you and
your partner.
When you're in a situationwhere it's all about me, you're
never going to get there.
Sandy (32:39):
And I think that sometimes we particularly now we
get caught up with okay, well,I got to get mine and I don't
(32:59):
you know, me and my OCD I thinkthat was probably the biggest
issue.
Right is letting things go.
I think that's also kind ofimportant.
If you're sitting there runningaround the house doing all this
stuff and your partner is likesitting down and relaxing, Like
(33:23):
you can't hold it against themfor their decision, because they
may need that time.
Right, they might need that time, and if you don't want to run
around the house, go sit downnext to them, exactly.
Terrance (33:35):
I think that's a perfect way.
I do think that is a part ofyou know, reflection and
continuous growth, and I alsothink that that's a perfect way
to actually wrap, wrap all thatup into an actual nutshell.
So, uh, let's end by me sayingthis there is a balance between
treating everyone the same andrecognizing that everyone has
(33:58):
unique circumstances and needsas an individual.
We talked today about howsubtle differences between
people can shape a relationshipand, in terms of true equality
and equity, it's not somethingthat you should just strive for,
but it's a journey oncontinuous growth and reflection
(34:19):
, and you need to haveunderstanding.
So, as we navigate the ebbs andflows of relationships, we need
to consider that the pursuit ofequity and equality is not just
about destination, but it'sabout principles that shape the
very foundation of love,connection and belongings.
So, with that, I'd like tothank everyone for joining us on
(34:43):
the Lunch with Sandy podcast.
Please be sure to follow us andleave feedback on social media
and your favorite podcasting app.
Until next time, stay well.
Announcer (34:57):
Till next time, stay well.
That's it for this week'sepisode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast.
Thanks for listening.
We'd love to hear your feedbackand comments on Instagram,
TikTok and Twitter at Lunch withSandy, and be sure to follow us
on your favorite podcast app.
If you enjoyed the show, don'tforget to rate and review us.
Thanks again for listening tothe Lunch with Sandy podcast.
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best
policy?
How do you balance what youwant versus what you need, and
is there something you need tosay to your spouse but can't
find the right way to say it?
If so, then you're in the rightplace.
This is the Lunch with Sandypodcast.
With nearly 20 years ofmarriage under their belts,
Terrance and Sandy Jacksondiscuss a range of topics,
(00:22):
provide valuable insights onrelationships and talk about the
conversations married couplesneed to have.
So what does lunch have to dowith all of this?
Well, it's a metaphor for howthese conversations originally
started.
Speaking of conversations,let's get one going.
Here's your hosts, Terrance andSandy.
Terrance (00:44):
Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast, where we delve intovarious topics and offer
insights from the perspective ofa married couple.
I'm Terrance.
Sandy (00:53):
And I'm Sandy.
Terrance (00:54):
And today we will be discussing equality versus
equity in the context of arelationship.
But before we dive into that,please remember to follow the
Lunch with Sandy podcast on yourfavorite podcasting app.
Also, be sure to follow theshow on all social media
platforms.
At Lunch with Sandy.
(01:14):
Speaking of Sandy, she's overthere petting Jax.
Jax is wondering what happenedto his podcast, the Rough Life,
which never got off the ground.
Sandy (01:28):
What's going on in your head today, Sandy?
That?
Terrance (01:31):
Jax is so needy.
Jax is very needy Jax.
He's been following me aroundall morning and then at some
point he always just decides youknow what?
I'm going to lay down at thebottom of the stairs and pretend
like nobody cares about meuntil somebody else wakes up At
the bottom of the stairs andpretend like nobody cares about
me until somebody else wakes up.
Sandy (01:46):
That's probably exactly what happened, because I came
down the stairs and there he waswagging his tail.
Terrance (01:53):
Every morning I have to tell him all right, jax, I'm
not petting you, lay downsomewhere, he'll come sit right
between my legs, sit there andjust lean up on me and take his
head and put it on my hand.
Sandy (02:07):
I'm like jacks, you got to go lay down somewhere.
He's looking at you, but that'sexactly what he's doing.
He keeps putting his head on mylap like I'm not giving him any
attention jacks is sayingthere's no equity in this
relationship that we actuallyhave here yeah, he's right, he
doesn't give me the love I givehim.
Terrance (02:27):
Well this is why we're going to be talking about
equity versus equality in thecontext of relationship.
And let me tell you how all ofthis started.
I was at work the other day andwe were having a conversation
about how some things arestandard, so they're equal
across the board for everyoneand I made this point.
I said listen.
I said the challenge is,everyone here is talking about
(02:48):
equality.
And I said equality looks ateveryone and says okay, well,
I'm going to give you the sametreatment and I said, in some
cases we got to talk aboutequity and it got me to thinking
.
You know, in most relationships,I think it's fair that the goal
is everyone wants a balanceddynamic where both parties
(03:10):
contribute to the relationshipequally, would you agree?
Most of the time, however,though, it's not as
straightforward as it seems.
I want to talk today about howdifferences can affect the way
that we relate to one another,and in that sense, it could be a
(03:33):
challenge to the notion offairness or equality.
So I just want to touch on whatit means to be in a
relationship that is equitable.
But before we do that, let'sdefine the difference between
(03:55):
equality and equity as itpertains to a relationship,
right?
Ok, what does equality mean toyou in the context of a
relationship?
Sandy (04:09):
And I hope you read these notes, because now I'm putting
you on blast.
Now you threw me off.
Terrance (04:17):
That's OK.
Sandy (04:19):
What was the question?
Terrance (04:20):
Man, I got to keep you on your feet.
What does equality?
Sandy (04:26):
mean to you in the context of a relationship.
It means that each party isputting in the same level of
effort.
Terrance (04:36):
I'll accept that.
Sandy (04:37):
As the other.
Terrance (04:41):
And that's not it.
I love how you had the pausethere as the other.
Sandy (04:46):
And decision making.
It's a 50-50.
Terrance (04:50):
Is this question making you nervous?
Sandy (04:52):
No, why.
Terrance (04:52):
Because you keep bopping your leg, you get that
nervous twitch going on again.
Sandy (04:57):
It's not a nervous switch .
I always bop in my leg.
Terrance (04:59):
I just don't know how to sit still, it's very
distracting when I see a slippercoming out of the side of my
eye just going up and down, upand down.
Sandy (05:06):
I'll switch feet.
How's that Well?
Terrance (05:07):
don't kick the table, all right.
So I'll accept that definition,not that it's your definition
anyway.
Announcer (05:14):
Thank you for your acceptance.
Terrance (05:16):
So where do you think equity differs?
In the context, in that samecontext, in that same context.
Sandy (05:23):
So when I'm thinking of relationships, I'm thinking
equity to me is more like Idon't need to make a decision on
this, you go ahead and take it.
That to me is equity.
(05:51):
I guess that works in a sense.
So so it's like we don't haveto be equal like it's.
It's a situation where itdoesn't need to be 50 50 and
debate it out right and come toa mutual.
Terrance (06:00):
It sounds like you're saying I got equity built up.
Like you know, I've been payingon this mortgage or this
relationship.
Sandy (06:06):
Well, no, it's like OK, we have to buy a new TV.
Go ahead and take this one,because you know technology is
more your strength.
There you go.
That's what I was looking forAll right.
Terrance (06:16):
So when, when I talk about equality, there are a
couple of things that come tomind, a couple of things that I
think that you know many peoplefocus on, couple things that
come to mind, a couple thingsthat I think that you know many
people focus on, and I think I'mgoing to name those three
things and then I'm going to getto just a very brief definition
of what I think those thingsare right.
The first thing that comes tomind is fair treatment.
The second thing that comes tomind is uniformity in some sense
(06:38):
, and then, lastly, you know,from an approach perspective,
being standard, right, when wetalk about fair treatment, it's
that notion that everyone'streated the same, regardless of
circumstance or need, and that'spretty much the definition of,
you know, fairness.
When we talk about uniformity,it's, you know, basically,
(07:03):
uniformity or sameness indistribution.
When we talk about resources,responsibilities and
opportunities, and then thatlast one, you know, the standard
approach is basically everyonestarts from the same baseline
and receives the same treatmentand receives the same treatment.
(07:23):
So, if I had to think about anexample and I'm going to use
this example because currentlywe have some people who might be
vertically challenged in thishouse.
So an example of that contextof equality if I were to say,
(07:52):
okay, well, everyone gets a onefoot stool so they can reach the
top cabinet In the top shelf,in the cabinet in the kitchen,
that's essentially saying, ok,well, that's being equal,
everyone's being treated equal.
There is the same baseline, theapproach is the same, the
treatment is the same.
While equality is essentially,you know, that basic form of
fairness, it doesn't always leadto an equitable outcome because
(08:17):
people have differentbackgrounds, needs and
circumstances.
So when, when, when I talkabout equity, I think of the
following right, so when we talkabout that, we mentioned fanish
fairness and you know thatequality piece.
So equity, I would say we talkabout fairness based on need,
(08:43):
and then I'm going to do thesame thing as I did for the
first three in equality I'mgoing to define these and then
I'll go back to give moreinsight as to what I mean.
We talk about fairness based onneed, we talk about
customization, we talk aboutaddressing disparities and we
talk about emphasis on justice,right?
(09:04):
Yep, so fairness based on need,it focuses on distributing
those resources, opportunitiesand that same stuff we talked
about in being equality, youknow, like support and things
like that in a way that's fair,based on individual
circumstances, needs andabilities.
(09:26):
So it's not a situation whereit's OK, well, one solution fits
everybody, right, right, onesolution fits everybody Right,
right Customization it basicallylooks at tailoring whatever it
is that you need to do, whetherit's support resources to
(09:49):
address specific inequalities orbarriers that individuals face
Now.
Like my shortness.
We're going to get to yourvertical, the challenge that you
face vertically right when wetalk about addressing
(10:24):
disparities, that's, recognizingthat different individuals or
groups may require differentlevels of support or
accommodations to achieve thesame outcomes that someone else
may be able to achieve withoutthat same level of support.
And then, lastly, you know, Imentioned emphasis on justice.
So when we talk about beingequitable, we prioritize being
fair and being just, even if itmeans deviating from you know,
that equal distribution in favorof addressing underlying
inequalities.
So let me go back to the same,To the same example that I used
(10:48):
earlier when I was talking aboutthe top shelf.
And I was talking about the topshelf.
So if I wanted to be equitable,what I would do then?
What I would do is I'd say,okay, well, based on your height
, I'm going to customize a stoolfor you to use so you actually
can reach that top shelf in thatcabinet, regardless of the fact
(11:12):
that you're four foot two.
Sandy (11:19):
And I'm not saying you're four foot two.
I know you were going to comeat me with that.
Definitely not at least fourfoot two.
But yeah, or although I justlike it better where I just call
you to come get whatever I need.
Terrance (11:28):
I mean, I might not always be around so oftentimes
you hear people talk aboutequality and equity and it's not
in the context of arelationship, it's in whether
you're talking about jobs,whether you're talking about pay
(11:49):
.
Well, jobs and pay, you know, Iguess you can separate those,
but housing and things like thatwhen you speak about actually,
I don't often hear people speakabout having equity in a
relationship, but when you talkabout it, that means that you
have to be able to recognizeeach other's needs, strengths,
(12:10):
challenges and weaknesses needs,strengths, challenges and
weaknesses because that is theonly way then you can begin to
actually address what thosedifferences are, so you can make
a relationship truly equitable.
So why do you think it is thatyou don't hear people talk about
that in the context of arelationship?
Sandy (12:32):
I don't think people actually try to define the
differences.
But you know, I I feel like alot of complaints come from I do
this and you don't right, so,um, so they're always looking
for like that type of equalitybecause they want their partner
(12:52):
to.
Terrance (12:52):
You know, you just said the word they want their
partner to you know, you justsaid the word they want their
partner to be equal Right, yeah,so they don't really think
about okay, yeah, I might dothis, but you do that.
Announcer (13:08):
Yeah.
Sandy (13:08):
Right, and instead of rotating responsibilities, you
both see the equity in both ofthe things that you do and to
that it's similar, so you don'tneed to do this.
So I don't know.
For example, I'm trying tothink of something within the
(13:30):
house.
Oh okay, so I do the banking,right, yeah?
Terrance (13:34):
Except for the business account.
But yes, yeah, we got to putmore money in there by the house
.
Oh, okay, so I do the bankingright?
Yeah, except for the businessaccount.
But yes, yeah, we got to putmore money in there, by the way,
funds are running low.
Sandy (13:40):
So, anyhow, you know I do the majority of the banking and
that's just because you know itcomes easy to me.
Terrance (13:50):
It's not to say it doesn't come easy to me.
Sandy (13:51):
No, I know, I just don't like it yeah and hence I just do
it and, but yet you will doother things, like around the
house and things of that nature,you know.
So it's it's not like we needto flip-flop who does and who
(14:11):
pays the bills and does thebanking this?
Terrance (14:14):
month versus next month, because you know to me
the equity is offset by otherthings that you do yeah, and I
think that I think the challengefor some people and I mean it
could be a challenge for us alsoyou know, we never had
conversations about that yeah,and it's just one of those
things where we just accept itas as it is and we never really
(14:35):
look at okay, well, do we needto play off, not play off one
another?
Do we need to meet each otherin different spaces to make
things equitable?
Equitable, and again, wehaven't had that issue.
I just think that a lot ofpeople don't think about equity
(14:56):
when they talk aboutrelationship, not to say that
they don't have it.
I don't think that there's alot of conversations and so the
question becomes okay, well,we've now defined the difference
between equality and equity,how do you actually reach that
in an actual relationship?
Sandy (15:14):
how do you actually reach that in an actual relationship?
So that's kind of tough,because I feel like equality
becomes more of an issue if bothof you don't like what it is.
Like.
That you know, I'm thinkingspecifically, for you know
things that you both have to do.
You know in the relationship,things that you both have to do.
(15:40):
You know in the relationship.
I think equality becomes anissue when neither one of you
likes to do it.
Well, you know what.
So, say, neither one of us liketo do banking, who's gonna do
the banking?
I feel like at that point,jacks right.
It becomes more of like oh well, we need to be equal in this
respect, because I don't likedoing it, you don't like doing
it, and so you know that equitypiece of it is kind of out the
(16:03):
window.
Terrance (16:05):
Yeah.
So you know, and this is whereI think we've beaten this home
in almost every episode thatwe've had this is where
communication and collaborationcomes into effect, and the
reason why I say that is youknow, again, I don't think that
(16:25):
many people have the discussion,but you have to have the
discussion Right, because wealways talk about, everyone
talks about being equal, and I'mtalking about in partnerships,
with relationships I want tokeep this to the context of a
relationship, but I don't thinkwe have enough conversations
about what our different needsare or our different abilities.
(16:47):
I mean, again, we talk aboutthe banking.
That's something you do.
You have that ability.
It's not to say that I couldn'tdevelop that ability or don't
necessarily have that ability,but that is an area where you
know you're off and you're in,you're running with that.
If it's a situation where weboth don't want to do something,
or if you're, it's a situationwhere two people don't want to
do something, the questionbecomes okay, well, is there
(17:09):
something within that personthat is keeping them from being
able to perform whatever thatresponsibility is for one reason
or another, and is it just ah,you know, I don't like doing it,
or is it something within them,that is, keeping them or, you
know, again stopping them frombeing able to grab onto that and
(17:33):
do it without having some sortof issue internally with it.
Sandy (17:38):
Yeah Well, it makes me think of cooking.
I enjoy cooking, but I hatecooking at the same time.
You hate?
Terrance (17:49):
it.
Sandy (17:51):
Well, what I hate is coming up with what I want to
cook.
Terrance (17:57):
Yeah, I see.
Sandy (18:00):
And sometimes I feel like I just don't have enough time
to cook the things I do want tocook.
So it ends up becoming where Istruggle and I start disliking
it to some degree because youknow you being too go ahead,
struggle and I start dislikingit to some degree because you
(18:21):
know one is the time and thentwo it's having to like, think
about it and prepare for it.
Terrance (18:23):
I think I'm gonna solve your problem.
Uh-huh, stop trying to havebougie dishes, just have some
plain dishes listen, you mightlike having the same thing over
and over me.
Sandy (18:32):
I need a little bit more variety.
Terrance (18:33):
Consistency is the key to life.
No, so I think that you know wetalked about responsibilities
and you're talking aboutresponsibilities now.
I think that when two peopleare talking, or if two people
are having the discussion aboutbeing equal and being equitable,
when they start talking aboutshared responsibilities, they
(18:54):
should be taking intoconsideration what's equitable
for each person.
Not being equal, because, again, when we talk about equity,
we're talking about making surethat we recognize another
person's needs, challenges andobstacles, so we can make things
equitable from the perspectiveof we may not be doing the same
(19:17):
amount of things, right.
Sandy (19:19):
Yeah.
Terrance (19:21):
But we're putting ourselves in a position so
everything is equitable andthat's going to lead us to a
more pleasant shared experiencewhen we talk about being in that
actual relationship.
Sandy (19:36):
Yeah, and so it would be like I don't know if I'm
thinking of like the cookingperspective.
It's like equitable means thatyou know you cook three days a
week, I cook three days a week.
We do take out one day a weekand your level of meals has to
be the same.
Terrance (19:56):
Par, that's not, that's not being equitable,
because you're only no becauseyou're only thinking about
yourself.
You're not thinking about theneeds and recognizing needs of
the other person I thought thatwas the equity no, we mean that
was I mean yeah so I wasthinking about equality.
Sandy (20:12):
So equality is like I cook three days, you cook three
days, take out one day and thelevel of our meals are identical
so like we can't do.
Terrance (20:25):
I'm trying to think of something like hot dogs one
night and I've never made youhot no I know, I'm just saying
for this example and I'm makinglike a beef wellington, neither
one do we eat, but other thanthat you know, see, and this is
why you have to haveconversations, because I could
say my definition of equalitywould be I cook two days a week,
(20:48):
you cook two days a week, weorder out one day a week and the
rest you're on your own.
I think a big part of it comesdown to this.
I think recognizing thechallenges and I don't want to
say challenges, but the otherresponse you have to recognize
that each person is different,and that's where the equity
piece comes in, because you know, from an equality standpoint
(21:09):
you can say things aren't equal,but from an equity standpoint
things could be very equitablebecause that individual person
may have different needs orchallenges that you need to
recognize.
Sandy (21:19):
That's what I was going to bring up right.
So, like thinking about thatcooking dinner situation, you
know what happened.
It doesn't leave room, like yousaid, for customization.
What happens?
If I want to go out one night,then I'm supposed to be partying
too much?
Terrance (21:36):
go ahead.
Sandy (21:37):
That's not true you just can't go on to dinner with me as
much as I want to.
Um.
So like what, if I want to goout one night, you know, and
it's my night to cook?
What does that mean?
Does that mean I have to cookyou a meal before I?
Terrance (21:52):
go out.
Sandy (21:52):
It should, but I'm flexible so that doesn't have to
happen right, but that's kindof like the equity, like oh, the
equity is more like oh well,you know, let's, let's switch
days or something like that, ordon't worry about it.
You know, I, I got it covered.
Yeah, go ahead.
And you know, enjoy your mealout.
Terrance (22:11):
Yeah, the other thing that you know needs to be
considered when you're talkingabout truly having a equal and
equitable relationship is thepower dynamics, and we've had a
conversation in the past aboutpower and whether or not a
person who makes more money, youknow but and power dynamics,
(22:34):
you know they influence thedistribution of resources and
responsibilities in arelationship.
So can you think of an unequalpower dynamic that can impact
the ability to achieve equalityand equity in a relationship?
I just gave you one too.
I gave you a layup.
Sandy (22:53):
Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say.
I'm thinking even more from theperspective of, like, a
stay-at-home parent where theother parent works, you know.
So that stay-at-home parent,their job, is being home, right,
but then you know that parentwho is out of the house working,
could come home and be like,well, what did you do all day?
(23:15):
like you know, do all day not tosay that that would happen, but
it's a possibility right, andyou know the stay-at-home
parents like, well, I've beenhurting these kids all day and
then trying to make the houselook reasonably clean before
they come home.
(23:35):
You know like the job is thechildren, but yet I feel like
sometimes that might be likeoverlooked as a job because
there's no monetary yeah.
Terrance (23:48):
And this is why, that's a good point and this is
why the three points that we'veactually mentioned before all
play together.
This is why you got to haveconversations, because if the
decision is made that one personis going to be a stay at home
parent and take care of thehousehold and the other person
is going to go out into theworkforce, ok, well, you know
(24:09):
you are sharing responsibilities, because if that person is not
taking care of the household,then who is that person?
That person's not going outinto the workforce, who is?
The conversation needs tohappen.
And then, when you talk about,okay, well, if that's the
decision that you make, is itequitable?
You have to look at eachindividual and recognize where
(24:32):
they are, who they are, whattheir needs are and how you can
actually support one another.
Recognize where they are, whothey are, what their needs are
and how you can actually supportone another.
Because then, if it is, we knowthat that power dynamic is
going to exist.
But if you've had theseconversations, if you talked
about these sharedresponsibilities and you have
(24:57):
assessed and recognized whereeach other are, each person is,
then the power dynamic shouldn'timpact your ability to be equal
and equitable.
But if you haven't had thoseconversations.
If you haven't, you know, goneover the responsibilities and
shared responsibilities, thenthat could be a real issue.
Sandy (25:14):
Yeah, it could be.
And then even for I think youwere going down this path even
for the decision-making right,like the person who is going
into the workforce could be like, well, I want to buy, I want to
go buy this right, and the oneat home is like I don't think we
should buy that right nowbecause you know we have other
(25:35):
priorities and you know they tryto play the power move, like I
don't think we should buy thatright now because you know we
have other priorities and youknow they try to play the power
move, like well, it's my money.
Terrance (25:41):
It's my money, I make it.
Sandy (25:43):
So you can't tell me what to do or how to spend it.
Terrance (25:46):
And that's when they say I pay the bills, we got
bills to pay, and that leads tothis big argument and they have
a term marriage and they getdivorced.
Announcer (25:58):
There you go.
Terrance (26:10):
I think and this plays into it too we've talked about
you know, being able toempathize with.
You know your partners.
I think building empathy andunderstanding plays a big role
in being able to be in arelationship that is not just
equal but also equitable.
You know everything.
You know we talk about howrelationships, marriages, it's
all work, it's continuous.
Everything has to be able tosee things through their eyes
(26:39):
and understand what it is thatthey're thinking, understand
what it is that they're goingthrough, understand what it is
when they start talking abouttheir values and recognizing
their strengths and weaknesses.
That's not something that justhappens, it has to be cultivated
.
That's not something that justhappens, it has to be cultivated
.
And when you go through thatprocess and it's a process
(27:01):
that's over time you come todevelop that understanding, you
gain that ability to empathizewith them.
So when you have thatcombination of those two whether
it's going out buying a TV or abike or whatever not that any
of that stuff happens here, no,it makes it easier for you to
(27:25):
reach that point where, okay,well, we have an understanding.
I, I see where this person iscoming from and at the same time
, it makes it that much moreeasier to have the conversation,
to say, hey, listen, you canget the bike, but you can't get
the tv I think it comes down tohaving the equality when it's
(27:48):
important and having the equitywhen it's kind of like the
day-to-day stuff.
You should have equity at alltimes.
I think it's quality when it'simportant equity day-to-day
stuff.
Sandy (28:01):
Well, because, like yeah to your point, you know, I feel
like our relationship is bothright and they should and most
should be.
It depends on the situationright, like we have the equality
on the decision making, unlessone of us decides to forfeit I'm
(28:25):
not to forfeit no decisions Ihave, like you know, I've told
you do whatever you want, like,but that wasn't it you can't say
I've told you do whatever youwant, and say you forfeited it.
That's me forfeiting my.
Terrance (28:40):
you know my Well no because that's you saying no,
we've had this conversationbefore.
You can, when we talk about,say what you mean.
If you say, do whatever youwant, that's the same thing as
saying no, I don't want you todo that.
Sandy (28:49):
No, well, all right, so maybe okay, so I forfeited my
decision.
Terrance (28:52):
So I want to make sure that people understand what
you're saying.
Sandy (28:56):
You get whatever it is that you think is right.
Terrance (29:00):
Yes, that's different.
That's not forfeiting.
What that is is saying OK, Iunderstand that this is your
area right here, I defer to youbecause I trust that you're
going to make the right decision.
That's a big difference than Iforfeit.
Sandy (29:13):
Do whatever you want a big difference, then I forfeit,
do whatever you want.
I mean, like you know, my 50percent of the decision making.
I, I, you know that's what Imean.
I renounce it, go ahead, yougot a hundred percent, all you,
I think.
Terrance (29:27):
I think one of the mistakes that people make too is
, I think people get attachedtoo much to 50 50 because, yeah,
a true relationship is not50-50.
There's going to be some dayswhere it's 30-70, 40-60 because,
again, everyone's not going tohave their best day every day,
right, and if you stuck to that,well, everything has to be
(29:48):
50-50.
When that person's not pullingtheir weight, you're cutting the
cord, and that's not how itshould be.
So, from that perspective,right, and that's not how it
should be.
So, from that perspective,tying that back into equality
and equity and I'll focus onthat equality piece We've got to
remember a union is somethingthat is there to support and
(30:08):
build each other up, and you'vegot to understand that there are
going to be days where it's not50 50.
There might be a day or twowhere it's zero and a hundred,
but that shows the strength ofit could even elapse to a week.
(30:29):
Yeah, well, it could.
We don't want it to do that,but it could.
And I think that when we talkabout these things and we talk
about how to achieve thesethings, I think it's all about
continuous growth and reflection.
I think that you don'tnecessarily wake up and
everything's going to be fair,equitable or equal.
You got to work at these thingsand I think that it takes time,
(30:50):
and it takes you looking atyourself, because it's easy to
look at someone else and say,hey, you suck.
Sandy (30:57):
You're not pulling your weight.
Terrance (30:58):
But you've got to look at yourself and reflect on who
you are, how you move and howyou interact with people, and I
think that that takes effort.
So let me ask you this questionDo you have any strategies that
you would employ towardsworking towards greater equality
and equity in relationships?
Sandy (31:20):
That's a tough one because I feel like our
relationship just kind of fellinto a groove, but at the same
time it took a while.
Terrance (31:32):
It didn't just fall into a groove.
Sandy (31:33):
No, but to your point.
I don't know if we really satthere and discussed every point
which may have helped kind ofspeed things up a little bit, I
guess.
Terrance (31:44):
But you know, I think we have had conversations, so
you know about things as they'vekind of arisen, you, know, yes,
and I was hoping that you weredrawn to 20 years of actually
it's more than 20 years now, uh,well, not yet well over 20
years of of marriage, uh, andcome up with a strategy that you
(32:06):
can shed some light on theseyoungins out there who are
trying to get through, but Ithink, working I think it's
figuring out like where yourstrengths and weaknesses are and
kind of talking about it, notjust yours.
I think that's part of it.
Sandy (32:19):
Well, I mean yours, like both of yours.
Terrance (32:21):
Yeah.
Like not just one person's, butyeah, I think the challenge is
you know, you have to make surethat you're in it for you and
your partner.
When you're in a situationwhere it's all about me, you're
never going to get there.
Sandy (32:39):
And I think that sometimes we particularly now we
get caught up with okay, well,I got to get mine and I don't
(32:59):
you know, me and my OCD I thinkthat was probably the biggest
issue.
Right is letting things go.
I think that's also kind ofimportant.
If you're sitting there runningaround the house doing all this
stuff and your partner is likesitting down and relaxing, Like
(33:23):
you can't hold it against themfor their decision, because they
may need that time.
Right, they might need that time, and if you don't want to run
around the house, go sit downnext to them, exactly.
Terrance (33:35):
I think that's a perfect way.
I do think that is a part ofyou know, reflection and
continuous growth, and I alsothink that that's a perfect way
to actually wrap, wrap all thatup into an actual nutshell.
So, uh, let's end by me sayingthis there is a balance between
treating everyone the same andrecognizing that everyone has
(33:58):
unique circumstances and needsas an individual.
We talked today about howsubtle differences between
people can shape a relationshipand, in terms of true equality
and equity, it's not somethingthat you should just strive for,
but it's a journey oncontinuous growth and reflection
(34:19):
, and you need to haveunderstanding.
So, as we navigate the ebbs andflows of relationships, we need
to consider that the pursuit ofequity and equality is not just
about destination, but it'sabout principles that shape the
very foundation of love,connection and belongings.
So, with that, I'd like tothank everyone for joining us on
(34:43):
the Lunch with Sandy podcast.
Please be sure to follow us andleave feedback on social media
and your favorite podcasting app.
Until next time, stay well.
Announcer (34:57):
Till next time, stay well.
That's it for this week'sepisode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast.
Thanks for listening.
We'd love to hear your feedbackand comments on Instagram,
TikTok and Twitter at Lunch withSandy, and be sure to follow us
on your favorite podcast app.
If you enjoyed the show, don'tforget to rate and review us.
Thanks again for listening tothe Lunch with Sandy podcast.
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