January 27, 2024 • 43 mins
Have you ever paused to consider the true essence of the American Dream, especially within the tapestry of marriage? Join Terrance and Sandy as we peel back the layers of what this dream means today, beyond the white picket fences and 2.5 children. Our candid conversation takes you through the heart of communication within relationships, the balancing act between personal ambition and partnership, and how societal shifts are redefining success.
As we navigate the complexities of love and aspirations, we'll share insights on aligning dreams to forge a stronger bond with your partner. We reflect on the writings of James Truslow Adams, inviting you to ponder if the traditional milestones of the American dream still hold their weight in our rapidly changing society. From the personal struggles to maintain equilibrium in our busy lives to the broader socioeconomic impacts on our pursuit of happiness, we'll dissect the morphing landscape of the American workforce and what it means to 'make it' in today's world.
Our discussion culminates with a forward-thinking gaze at the next generation's approach to life's grand pursuit. Are experiences and fiscal prudence taking center stage over material wealth? We'll explore this shift, considering how the rising costs of living, the technology boom, and evolving family dynamics are reshaping the paradigm of prosperity. So, tune in as we examine the multifaceted nature of the American Dream, its intersection with marriage, and the pursuit of a fulfilling life in the 21st century.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:01):
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best
policy?
How do you balance what youwant versus what you need, and
is there something you need tosay to your spouse but can't
find the right way to say it?
If so, then you're in the rightplace.
This is the Lunch with Sandypodcast.
With nearly 20 years ofmarriage under their belts,
Terrance and Sandy Jacksondiscuss a range of topics,
(00:23):
provide valuable insights onrelationships and talk about the
conversations married couplesneed to have.
So what does lunch have to dowith all of this?
Well, it's a metaphor for howthese conversations originally
started.
Speaking of conversations,let's get one going.
Here's your hosts, Terrance andSandy.
Terrance (00:44):
Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast, where we delve intotopics and offer insights from
the perspective of a marriedcouple.
I'm Terrance.
Sandy (00:54):
And I'm Sandy.
Terrance (00:55):
And today we're going to be talking about the American
dream.
But before we get to that, I'mgoing to give you the
opportunity to see if there'ssomething that you got to say.
Sandy (01:06):
Well then, I'm just tired .
Terrance (01:08):
I'm actually not tired today, which is that is the
house Sandy portion of the show.
I'm debating on whether or notI'm going to keep doing that
portion of the show before weget to the house Sandy, because
you know how Sandy's becoming sobig right now with all your one
word responses.
Sandy (01:28):
It was more than one word today.
Terrance (01:30):
Well, we haven't gotten to that, so if you said
it, it don't count.
You got to say it again I wasgiving you the opportunity to
get something off your chest, totalk about something you wanted
to talk about, to shout outsomebody.
Shout out to Jax, who is overthere sleeping in his crate.
This new podcast area hasbecome one of his favorite areas
.
He spends a lot of time overhere until we start recording
(01:52):
and then he goes back over intohis crate.
Now, since we spent that amountof time talking about Jackson
not getting into you havingsomething to say, let's move
right into the house.
Sandy.
Portion of the episode.
Sandy, how are you today?
Sandy (02:12):
I'm all right.
I'm feeling more stressed thananything.
Terrance (02:15):
Why today?
Sandy (02:16):
It's just a lot going on this weekend.
Terrance (02:17):
See, and that's why I purposely am taking a break from
certain activities today.
Sandy (02:25):
Yeah.
Terrance (02:26):
We went to dinner last night.
You guys got this.
I don't know how long you'regoing to be going today.
And then tomorrow it's anotherevent.
I can't say what event is,because by the time this comes
out that event will be over.
But tomorrow it's another event.
I can't do three days in a row.
It's too much.
Yeah, and wait a minute.
(02:48):
And you went out for dinner onThursday.
I did.
Sandy (02:52):
Yeah, I did Sunday, saturday, sunday.
If I recall, it's four days ina row.
Terrance (02:59):
Yeah, If I recall you were talking about, you know,
really having the ability to sayno.
Sandy (03:08):
Yes.
However, I didn't want to sayno.
Well, there you go.
Yeah, I felt like it wasn't toomuch, because today is just
movies and a dinner.
I feel like it's kind ofrelaxing.
But, it's the other things thatpeople then try to put on my
calendar.
Like Ayla wants to do certainthings, my mother needs certain
(03:31):
things now.
And now all of a sudden, whereI wanted to have just a relaxing
movies and dinner day, it'slike, okay, now I got to figure
out when am I going to have timeto do this and that and so
forth and so on.
Terrance (03:46):
It sounds to me like you're living the dream, and
speaking of dreams.
That transitions right intowhat we're going to be talking
about today, and that is theAmerican dream.
Now you hear a lot about theAmerican dream and I think that
the American dream has, you know, changed, or I wouldn't say
(04:08):
change.
Well, I'm going to say change,but I think, depending on who
you ask, it's different andthere are a couple of factors
that go into what thosedifferences are.
But it's interesting to notethat that term, the American
dream, was actually coined by anauthor back in 1931, named
James Truslow Adams, andbasically he had this book, and
(04:32):
the book was called the Epic ofAmerica and the whole purpose of
the book was to remindAmericans that the myth of the
American dream never dies andsince the early foundation of
the American nation, people havestruggled to make that dream
come true.
So let's first start out by I'mgoing to ask you this question
(05:00):
what is the American dream toyou?
Sandy (05:05):
Good question I was going to.
I was more prepared to say ofwhat I felt, like it was as a
kid, I mean and that's, that's,that's fine.
Growing up, I felt like theAmerican dream was.
You know, you get married, youhave a house with a white picket
fence, two kids and a dog.
Yeah, it was never one for thewhite picket fence, but I hear
(05:25):
you Like that right there was,you know, oh, and it exists
successful job.
That was kind of like the, thepicturesque American dream, yeah
, um, yeah, I.
I wouldn't say that that's it,that's mine today.
Terrance (05:45):
So it's it's.
It's funny because in that book, right, truslow basically said
that the American dream was thatevery citizen of every rank can
expect to have a better, richer, happier life.
And those are very simple terms.
And I'll take a step back andsay 1931, that really didn't
(06:07):
apply to everybody, but that'sneither here nor there.
We'll.
We'll skip over that.
But if I look at that and I say,okay, well, to have a better,
richer, happier life, you cantake those things and break them
down and I think some of thosethings that you mentioned fall
under some of those categories.
But when you start talkingabout living a better life, when
(06:28):
I was coming up, I think thatliving a better life meant
having a better life than ageneration before you.
And when you start talkingabout having a better life, that
means some of the things thatyou mentioned better jobs, with
better jobs came, better pay, abetter home, better
neighborhoods all thosedifferent types of things fall
(06:52):
under to me that category ofliving better.
You can say better food.
You can say I mean there's alot of things that you can
actually say, yeah, justeverything is better.
Yeah, well, I mean in generalterms, right, yeah, everything,
everything better.
Now, when you start talkingabout you know, riches and
(07:13):
things like that, all thosethings start to fall in line if
everything is better.
I think one of the things that,to me, when you talk about the
American dream and you startlooking about, okay, well, let's
put the generation aside for asecond and look at it from the
(07:36):
perspective of those who werereally for lack of a better term
low on the socioeconomic, youknow totem pole or someone who
had just come over or, you know,immigrated into this country,
it's really about if you workedhard, you could have a better
(07:56):
life and you can gain riches andall those things through hard
work, and that was, I think,that played a big role in why,
you know, a lot of people cameand still, why a lot of people
come from other countries toAmerica.
But that was a big proponent ofyou know, the American dream If
(08:20):
you work hard, you can achieve.
Sandy (08:23):
Yeah, I just wonder at what point did it become like a
rat race over here, you knowwhat I mean.
And did that influence thatLike everybody just working hard
to succeed and to have betterridges and all that good stuff
Like, is that what kind of setthe precedent for that?
Terrance (08:44):
That's an interesting question and I can't really
speak too much on this, but I'mgoing to.
When I look at immigrants whocome to this country and the
work ethic that they bring withthem not taking anything away
from people who are actuallyhere I think when you look at
(09:05):
other cultures in othercountries, you know that hard
work ethic sometimes comes withthem and I know earlier on,
earlier generations, they builtthat hard work ethic because
when you look at what you know,the industries were in this
country.
When you start talking aboutwhether it was the auto industry
, the textile industry, allthose different things that we
(09:27):
used to actually create andmanufacture here in the States,
those were very laborious jobsand so in order for you to do
those jobs, you know you had tohave a very hard, you know a
very strong work ethic.
Sandy (09:44):
Well, I think it's because they have a goal and a
mission to accomplish, right,like I feel like people, when
they don't have that, tend tojust not work as hard, you know.
So if you are poor and you'restriving to be not poor, for
just simplistic terms, you havethat motivation pushing you
(10:07):
forward.
Now, if you were already bornin comfort, like where is your
motivation to live comfortably?
You're already livingcomfortably.
Terrance (10:15):
Yeah, so you said something that just sparked
something, right?
So when you don't have, theonly way that and the only legal
way that you can actually getis to actually work hard, and
that was up until a certainpoint.
(10:35):
So if you want to achieve, yougot to put in the work ethic.
Now there are some individualswho are more well-off than
others in that work ethicdoesn't actually have to be the
same.
So I think what happens is, astime goes on, things do get
better.
When I say things get better,I'm talking about from a
(10:58):
Technology perspective, from anindustry perspective.
All these new, modern toolsstart to come into place.
Mm-hmm which makes your workeasier or not necessarily your
work, the job that has to bedone, easier.
All these advances make thesethings easier and then a number
of things start to happen fromthe perspective of okay, that
(11:21):
part about working hard you canachieve.
Well, some of those jobs mightnot be available anymore because
of Advances and technology andindustry and those things like
that.
So you know, you may have astrong work ethic, but you might
not be in a position, yeah, towork.
(11:44):
You might not be in the sameposition to work the jobs that
you were able to work before,because now what happens is
those jobs as that, eitherthey're Either they're sent
overseas, they're farmed out.
Yeah, these new jobs.
Now you got to make sure thatyou're qualified for those
things, and that means now yougot to be educated to a certain
(12:05):
degree to actually Mm-hmm beinga position to be competitive to
actually get those jobs right.
And again you start when westart talking about living
better than the previousgeneration.
Education falls into that right.
The hope is that now, okay,well, your previous generation
or your parents or yourgrandparents might not have had
(12:26):
the opportunity To go and getschooled at a higher education.
Yeah, but now because Of theAmerican dream.
Yep.
You have that opportunity to goand get schooled and put
yourself in a position to bemore competitive in these other
markets that they didn't havethe opportunity to actually be
competitive in, and At one pointit was very Affordable to do so
(12:51):
.
Sandy (12:51):
Yeah, no, you're right, I think so.
For me I feel like my dream,and I wouldn't say it's
necessarily American, I thinkit's just universal.
Yeah it's just to live in peaceand comfort.
Yeah he's just, you know, nothave drama in my life.
Just you know they mean not,you know, just.
(13:13):
And then comfort like not bepoor, but I don't need to be the
ultra rich either, justcomfortable.
I prefer not to work, yeah.
Terrance (13:25):
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna touch on that, notthat you not working piece.
I'm gonna touch on what yousaid in a second, but the one
question that I well, the onearea I want to Touch first,
before we get there, is you know, in the beginning, when you
were defining the American dream, well, when you were younger,
marriage was a big part of itand I think for a while, for
(13:46):
most, for not for most people,for a lot of people growing up,
that was part of the Americandream.
And the question becomes Canthe American, can you, achieve
the American dream If, withinthat marriage, your dreams are
different or or, or or.
Let me rephrase that how do youhandle the challenge of
(14:11):
Achieving that American dream ifyou find out that the dreams
that each of you have isdifferent?
Sandy (14:20):
Yeah, so right.
I think the purpose of beingmarried within the American
dream is that it's two peopleworking together, right, you
know, to raise the two kids andthe dog and take care of the
white picket fence.
Terrance (14:36):
That's what I remember it being.
Your partner may not want a dog.
No, I know exactly.
Sandy (14:44):
So that's kind of like the purpose, right, I think, of
Marriage being part of theAmerican dream, because now you
have two people you know, youlive happily, ever after
together.
Right, you're sick and like,and you said you're going moving
towards that and dream, butyou're right, like what happens
when you don't.
(15:06):
How do you prioritize Whosedream is more important?
Terrance (15:10):
Well, two things.
One thing, that you use theword partnership in and early on
that's essentially Marriage waslooked at.
I mean, there was a love aspectof it, but more or less it was
okay.
Well, partnering with someoneso you can actually work
together to achieve more right.
To achieve that family but atthe same time, from an economics
perspective, you know, workingtogether and it might it didn't
(15:32):
always mean working togetherwhere both you had jobs, but
working together as a unit to toachieve those things.
The other part, from theperspective of prioritizing, I
think before you know, when youtalk about the American dream
and you talk about, okay, well,as a kid and I think for a lot
of people as kids and theyounger generations might be a
little different and definingthat but we'll get to that in a
(15:53):
second but I think you know,when you talk about finding that
someone as part of that dream,you got to make sure that when
you're Looking at the scale,Mm-hmm.
Well, you're doing interviews Iheard you want to call it you
have some alignment and what itis that you're trying to achieve
from that perspective of, okay,well, I have these dreams and
(16:13):
aspirations and you know, inorder to achieve them, I need to
work with somebody, or I needWell, either I got to work with
somebody who has some alignmentwith those or, listen, I got to
go on on my own right andachieve those.
Sandy (16:29):
That brings up an alas, that our problems right, like
you're with somebody and youknow that you have completely
different dreams, and then it'slike, oh, I can change their
mind.
Yeah, you know, but just yeahgood but I Think, I think
(16:50):
somebody's caving in all honestywhen it comes to the fact that
you're right.
Oh, hopefully, during thedating courting phase, whatever
the heck you want to call itthese days, you, you are finding
that you have thosecommonalities.
Yep.
And hence that's why you decideto move it forward.
(17:11):
But if you don't, and you stilldecide to go through with it, I
think right.
Either you decide that it's notworth it, Time to go find
somebody else or, like I said, Ithink somebody's caving.
Somebody's going to give uptheir dream?
Terrance (17:29):
for somebody else Fracture the American dream?
Yeah, I, compromise withcompromise would be a term that
I would say okay, well, when youget to that point, you got to
compromise.
If someone has to cave, thenchances are that there's
probably going to be a pointwhere that partnership is
actually going to end.
Yeah, depending on who theactual individual is.
(17:52):
And that's why sometimes youknow, when you start talking
about living a better, happier Ican't remember what else A
better, happier, you know,whatever life the question
becomes is that is that.
Can you really reach thepinnacle of that when you're
(18:16):
talking about an individualbeing married and that, and
that's why you know, there aresome questions that you have to
answer when you talk about, okay, well, what your dream is, and
does marriage align with thosedreams?
Because if you have two peoplewho can work on that and
prioritize, because you can be,you can have individual dreams
and goals and still functionwithin the confines of that
(18:39):
framework of a marriage.
But it would take compromise onboth sides and it's about
whether or not each individualis willing to actually do that.
Now let's go back to somethingyou said earlier about what your
dream was.
The question becomes and I knowthis.
Well, I believe I know theanswer is.
Well, I know the answer, I'mnot going to beat around the
(19:01):
bush.
The question becomes doeseveryone define that term, the
American dream, the same?
And the reason why I say thatis because when you start
looking at the generation todaywhen I say the generation today
I'm just talking about, I'm notthere are obviously, there's
multiple generations.
Let's take a step down and sayour kids, because we have two
(19:25):
who are in there, two who are intheir mid to upper twenties.
When they look at that phrasethat Truslow said, you know,
every citizen of every rank canexpect to be better, richer,
happier.
I think in some cases they'rechanging those terms because I
(19:47):
think some people think abouthappiness and equate happiness
to success.
Sandy (19:56):
Well, right.
So I was going to say first ofall, I don't think what was the
American dream?
Is everybody's Correct yeah?
That's correct, that's fair.
I think there's some maybeunderlying common aspects to it.
But not everybody wants to bemarried, not everybody wants two
(20:18):
kids, you know.
Not everybody wants to own ahome.
But with that you're right.
I think other things have kindof changed, like, like you said,
the happiness.
I think a lot of times happinessnow goes hand in hand, like
(20:42):
what you said, success and money.
Money will make you happy, butdoesn't really.
I don't think it really does.
I think there you need somewhatof some money, like you can't
be homeless and living off thestreets and be is that?
I don't know, maybe you can.
(21:02):
To be honest, I've never doneit personally and I'd prefer not
to.
But you know, can any of thosepeople be happy?
I don't know, I would.
I would say probably not.
Yeah.
At the same time, like, isthere a monetary value that goes
along with happiness?
(21:23):
I need, I think you need to atleast be able to take care of
your basic stuff, right, butthen after that, you know, I
don't think you need that muchmore to be happy.
But yet other people need moreto be happy.
They think they need more to behappy, like they need the grand
(21:44):
house, they need the flashy car.
Like you know, not everybody,but I'm just saying like I think
sometimes that they strive forthese things thinking that it's
going to make them happy.
Yeah.
Terrance (21:55):
And I think you know.
So everyone's definition ofhappiness is a little different.
Yeah, now, true happiness.
I think what happens is peoplecan get caught up in the term
happy and not really look at theactual totality of that
definition.
And when you start talkingabout equating money to
happiness there are people whoactually do that the question
(22:18):
becomes, behind closed doors,how?
How truly happy are they?
Are they?
And that's not something thatwe can answer.
But you said somethinginteresting earlier and there
was an actual study that wasdone and I don't remember who it
was by, but they pulledsomething out of it.
They pulled some youngergenerations and I can't remember
the age group about theAmerican dream, and 49% of them
(22:42):
felt that marriage didn'tnecessarily come into play.
Sandy (22:46):
When you start talking about the American dream, Well,
again, how we talked about, Ithink it's to them the contract
itself I guess we'll call it ofmarriage is not that important.
I think they probably stillwant somebody to be a partner in
(23:06):
life with.
But why?
Why do we need a piece of paper?
I think that's where they arestarting to question.
Terrance (23:16):
Yeah, we talked about that in a previous episode.
I think the tradition piecewhen you start talking about the
reason for marriage and youstart looking at what the
American dream was, that waspart.
It wasn't necessarily.
I'm not equating the reason tothe dream, but the dream was
listen and you, your success.
(23:37):
You, you've reached thepinnacle of success If you're
able to get married, buy a homeand have children, and that and
that was it right Now,traditionally, don't forget the
dog.
Traditionally, you know it'sbeen yeah, you want to get
(24:01):
married, I think when we hadthis conversation before.
I think that is changingbecause and I told you my
feeling on it I don'tnecessarily believe that two
people have to be married tocommit to each other.
Sandy (24:15):
Yeah.
So do you think, if you weregrowing up in today's times,
that you'd get married?
Terrance (24:21):
I don't know, I don't know.
I, you know, I like to play thelong game, and when I start
talking about playing the longgame and I talk about the
American dream, if there's goalsthat we want to achieve, we
have to start looking at whatthe formula is for us to
actually be able to achievethose.
And we have to be efficient andwe have to be smart.
Now, if we're gonna spend,let's say, $50,000 on a day
(24:48):
that's gonna come and go and youcan't recoup that cost, right,
was it worth it?
And I'm not gonna say was itworth it, but is it a better
investment to take that $50,000,invest it diversified and then
10, 15, 20 years, that $50,000is $500 to a million.
Sandy (25:09):
So would you bring up another good point?
So is that part of the idealwith the American dream too?
Not just marriage, but havealso a nice big wedding.
Because you don't need to spend$50,000 on a wedding.
You can literally just a coupleof people go where you wanna go
(25:29):
a church if that's where you'relooking to go, town hall if
that's where you're looking togo and actually get married.
Terrance (25:36):
That's interesting because I think part of it.
I think in some people it iswhen they talk about the wedding
.
Well, when they talk aboutmarriage, the big part of that.
Sandy (25:45):
They get about the wedding Party.
It's basically a huge party.
Terrance (25:49):
I've been yeah.
So when you said party, Iequated party with the people
who are part of the wedding.
Sandy (25:56):
Yeah, they're like the festival occasion of a wedding.
Terrance (26:00):
I think for some people, that is a big part of it
.
I think it depends on.
There are a number of thingsthat it depends on Culture
depends on it, the way thatbrought up religion.
There's a whole bunch thatactually plays a part of that.
I think now, if I was I thinkif I was coming up today I'd be
(26:21):
in that.
49% that did not includemarriage as part of the American
dream.
Companionship, commitment, yes,marriage.
No only because, again, knowingwhat I know now, knowing what
true happiness is and what'srequired at times and when I say
(26:44):
what's required in order to betruly happy, you have to, at
times, be in control of what itis that you want to do and what
you need to do, and there is afinancial aspect to that.
So, in order to get to thatpoint, you got to start thinking
(27:05):
about okay, well, how can Imake smart financial decisions
to put me in a position where,if I feel like I don't like
doing something at thisparticular point in time, I
don't have to do it and that'sgoing to actually make me happy.
Sandy (27:20):
Yeah, so I would have still wanted to get married, but
that's more religious purposesthan anything.
However, I probably would havepushed harder for what I really
wanted our wedding to be like,which was just us and a few
people on a beach.
Terrance (27:38):
Well getting married, you wouldn't have gotten the
beach.
I'm gonna tell you right now Iwould listen if you're just
talking about a small ceremonywith a few people and not that
large investment then I probablywould be able to get on board.
But again, I think part of itis too.
Sandy (27:54):
But yeah, not the big festival, huge occasion that we
had, but just something small,intimate, and, yes, I would have
preferred to have it on a nicesandy beach and had our
honeymoon there while we're atit.
Terrance (28:10):
Yeah, you know what else was interesting and you
mentioned this earlier when theywere talking about that study a
big part of that was whether ornot marriage would hinder
someone from achieving theirversion of the American dream.
Because again, you starttalking about that whole what's
(28:33):
priority and those things, andwho caves and who doesn't Right.
Sandy (28:39):
I think, if my American dream was just riches like
that's all you cared about is Iwanna work my butt off and I
wanna spoil myself with everyluxury that there is out there.
I don't know if I'd wanna bemarried, because then the
marriages or even in arelationship, potentially
(29:03):
because that unless that personis bringing something to that,
they're making their own richeslike they're completely on the
same page.
At that point I think it woulddistract me from my dream,
because now I have to.
Now I can't work 10 hour daysbecause I have to actually put
in some time and investment withthis other person.
(29:24):
That isn't bringing anything to.
I went.
That's so cynical, but you knowwhat I mean that's not bringing
anything to it.
Terrance (29:33):
I think it's time for us to switch gears.
And then it's starting to godown that dark road again, so
let's kick happiness to the sidefor a second right.
There were three terms better,richer, happier, the better part
or the richer part.
Sandy (29:47):
Well, we'll go with better, because I think better
you're right.
I think we all stand on theshoulders of somebody else to
help us be where we are.
Not many of us start at thevery bottom and crawl our way up
to the top alone, Like it'susually I mean, there are some,
but there's not there are somedefinitely.
Terrance (30:08):
Well, and you know what I think?
No, I think you have a pointthere from the perspective of
when we start talking about,when you think about better, as
advancement has come along, thatautomatically makes a lot of
your life better, and by thatwhat I mean is advancements in-.
Sandy (30:26):
Whoever invented the rice cooker, I love them.
Terrance (30:30):
We can say technology, but transportation, medicine,
all of those things I was gonnasay.
You know food, but there's awhole-.
Announcer (30:43):
Yeah, yeah that's the whole other thing.
Terrance (30:44):
There's a whole different things, but I do think
that the generations up into apoint may have the opportunity
of living better Now.
I say that because one of thebig issues that we face right
now that some people don'tbelieve is true is the whole
(31:05):
climate situation.
Sandy (31:06):
Okay, cause I was gonna say we're definitely living
longer right now.
Terrance (31:10):
I think there's a lot that goes into that.
I think you know obviouslybetter medicine and things like
that.
Sandy (31:16):
But yeah, I wouldn't say that the climate is better.
Terrance (31:19):
Well, no, climate control is a huge issue, and so
when I say for a while, what Imean is, you know we are living
longer, medicine's better, theway that the knowledge that we
have about the things that weneed to do, you know, is better.
The ability to detect certainthings again, advancements in
medicine is better, and thatrequires, I mean, and that leads
to people living longer.
(31:41):
The other part about that is, Ithink a lot of people are more
invested in themselves and theyare making more healthier
choices and whether it be, youknow, exercise, eating right,
those things and I think thoselead to people living longer and
which then you can classify asthe ability to live better.
(32:02):
Let's get to the richer partand the well, you know what?
And these two are kind ofjoined at the hip, because when
you talk about living better,when I look at the future
generations and I say okay, Ilook at what we have now and I
(32:22):
think that I know for me, I livein a better house than my
relatives did growing up, I haveaccess to better things, and in
part of that there is afinancial aspect that's tied to
(32:42):
that.
When I look at the girls comingup, I look at that opportunity
kind of slipping away.
Not the medicine,transportation, technology, but
when you look at things like thecost of living is increasing
and the wage increase is notequivalent.
(33:03):
Not equivalent right.
Sandy (33:08):
Home ownership.
I was gonna say the price ofhome.
Oh, home ownership.
Terrance (33:15):
And in conjunction with the interest rates and all
those things, even rent rates,it is very difficult right now
for the people who don't ownhomes one to get into the actual
market but two, even the fineplaces, to actually rent and
(33:38):
that doesn't seem like it'sslowing down Historically.
Cost of living, cost of homes,those type of things, they
increase and if the cost of homeownership increases and you're
in a situation where it'skeeping people from being able
(33:59):
to get into that market, thenthat means that they actually
have to rent.
And if the demand for rentalsis high supply and demand it's
just gonna keep rising the costup to get in.
Sandy (34:15):
Yeah, which is right.
I think it's very difficultthese days, especially if they
don't have the support systemthat you might have with your
parents, like if your parentsare just like, all right, you're
18, get out, like you're really, they're gonna be back at
square one, right, like unlessyou have the help there.
(34:36):
And it just you made me thinkof something that we were
talking about the other night,which really has nothing to do
with the American dream, but ithad to do with clothes and
styles coming back, and so itmade me think about that
conversation and it makes mewonder is there certain things
that people used to do back inthe past that may also come back
(35:01):
If you think about it?
Usually, homes weremulti-generational.
You had, like the grandparents,the parents and the children all
and well, I guess thegrandchildren all living in one
house and working together aslike a common unit.
You know what I mean.
Yeah.
Is that gonna potentiallybecome back almost like the
(35:25):
dream?
I think it may.
Because like to help.
Like they say, it takes avillage to raise kids and it
does.
And think about how expensivedaycare is, like it was
expensive enough when we had it,but I can only imagine trying
to put multiple kids throughdaycare today.
You know.
Terrance (35:47):
I think a lot of that is coming back and I think the
way that certain individuals inthis next generation think about
that is changing and I thinkthat they have the opportunity
or, from their perspective ofthe American dream, that is the
type of stuff that's actuallygonna make them richer.
And when I say richer I don'tnecessarily mean financially,
(36:09):
because although some of themequate, you know, happiness with
success.
At the same time, you startedtalking about all these clothes
and things coming back.
That same study found that thenext generation is less
concerned with amassing a wholebunch of possessions and being
(36:33):
more fiscally responsible fromthe perspective and, to a point,
they have to be Fiscallyresponsible when it comes to
those things.
They're more in tune toexperiencing things which leads
to happiness and fulfillment andrichness in their lives.
So that American dream, whenyou start talking about home
(36:57):
ownership and those things thatmight not be at the forefront in
all their minds, but there issome level of happiness or
richness or fulfillment which Ithink is smart, because now,
when you look at what has andour generation and a generation
before part of that Americandream, when we start talking
(37:18):
about the American dream, a lotof those people are there.
Let's be honest.
We live in a capitalisticsociety.
A lot of people look at theAmerican dream as I wanna be
able to make as much money aspossible, and that's it.
Yeah.
Because of the challenges thatare now in the forefront.
It provides the opportunity forthe younger generation, or the
(37:40):
next generation, to think aboutthese things different and
they're much more willing tohave an experience that is going
to enrich their lives, to reuseor be more cost effective when
it comes to purchases and thingslike that, and that it's all
(38:01):
tied because when you startdoing things like that, that
leads to the opportunity for youto have those resources to go
and have these experiences.
When you start talking about Iwanna travel, I wanna spend time
with my family, so I thinkthat's a good thing.
Sandy (38:14):
Yeah, which is kind of funny because when you first
said riches, I wasn't thinkingmonetary, I was thinking just a
richer life, like a morefulfilling type of life.
And you're right, there wasanother study that was done as
(38:35):
well in more people today,rather than giving materialistic
gifts or doing experiences,like that Cause.
Now that goes hand in hand withso many other things climate
control.
You don't have a bunch of wasteout there right.
Just us amassing great amount ofstuff.
People are traveling more wellthat one could actually impact
(38:58):
the climate too, but we won'tget into that.
Terrance (39:01):
Gotta be some give and take.
Sandy (39:02):
Right, some give and take .
Maybe not have as much plasticin the world, but we'll let out
some fumes from the airplane.
But, anyhow.
So, yeah, so it's become and Ithink that is a richer life, is
being able to like, experiencethings and just feeling
(39:23):
fulfilled and not just working.
But again, that's my particularvision, but it seems to be in
line with what is happening outthere with the majority as well.
Terrance (39:37):
Well, no, what that does, it does prove the point.
It does prove the point thateveryone's definition is a
little different.
Right, when, when Truslow wasmentioning that you know better,
richer, happier life.
When, when he mentioned riches,they were talking about from
the perspective of okay, well,you got, yeah, so you gotta
remember this is 1931, they weretalking about money, but people
(39:58):
look at riches and it'sdifferent.
I think one of the things thatit does for me is it gives me
much more confidence in thisyounger generation.
You know, I tell you all thetime I'm concerned about you
know how our kids are going tobe able to make that leap, to be
in a better position than wewere.
But when I start doing researchand I start looking at what it
(40:23):
is that the younger generationviews, as you know, a rich life,
a happy life, and they're moreinto the experiences and they're
more in tune to the environmentand what's going on and those
type of things, that gives meconfidence in the sense that
they're going to be all right.
Yeah.
(40:43):
So we started talking about theAmerican dream and as we went
through this conversation, it'sclear that the dream has changed
and many people define itdifferently.
So I was going to ask thequestion and I'm not because I'm
, you know, I think it's time wewrap.
I was going to ask the questionis the American dream
(41:07):
attainable?
And the answer to that is yes,because each person defines that
differently.
I think we're at a point nowwhere each generation is going
to look at what it is that theywant to accomplish in their life
and that is going to definewhat that dream is for them, and
(41:28):
I think that that's a greatthing, because the traditional
definition of what the Americandream was is not as easily
attainable as it was at onepoint in time.
With that out the way, it istime for my weekly reflection.
I saw this the other day.
Well, I saw this happen theother day and it clicked.
(41:54):
So sometimes it takes one personto question what it is you're
doing.
Before you question what it isyou're doing, and let me explain
what I mean.
Not everything that we're goingto do is going to be really in
our best interests, and we mightnot see it at first.
Sometimes it takes someonequestioning you, saying what the
(42:17):
hell is it that you're doing?
Why are you doing that?
For you to actually be able toopen your eyes and then
understand wow, maybe this issomething that I shouldn't be
doing.
This is not going to work outfor me in the long run, so it's
good to make sure that you haveindividuals who are around you
who can pose those questions toyou when that opportunity comes
(42:41):
up.
That's it for this episode.
Thank you for listening to theLunch with Sandy podcast.
Please be sure to follow us andleave feedback on your favorite
podcasting app.
Until next time, stay well.
Announcer (42:57):
That's it for this week's episode of the Lunch with
Sandy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
We'd love to hear your feedbackand comments on Instagram,
TikTok and Twitter at Lunch withSandy, and be sure to follow us
on your favorite podcast app.
If you enjoyed the show, don'tforget to rate and review us.
Thanks again for listening tothe Lunch with Sandy podcast.
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best
policy?
How do you balance what youwant versus what you need, and
is there something you need tosay to your spouse but can't
find the right way to say it?
If so, then you're in the rightplace.
This is the Lunch with Sandypodcast.
With nearly 20 years ofmarriage under their belts,
Terrance and Sandy Jacksondiscuss a range of topics,
(00:23):
provide valuable insights onrelationships and talk about the
conversations married couplesneed to have.
So what does lunch have to dowith all of this?
Well, it's a metaphor for howthese conversations originally
started.
Speaking of conversations,let's get one going.
Here's your hosts, Terrance andSandy.
Terrance (00:44):
Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast, where we delve intotopics and offer insights from
the perspective of a marriedcouple.
I'm Terrance.
Sandy (00:54):
And I'm Sandy.
Terrance (00:55):
And today we're going to be talking about the American
dream.
But before we get to that, I'mgoing to give you the
opportunity to see if there'ssomething that you got to say.
Sandy (01:06):
Well then, I'm just tired .
Terrance (01:08):
I'm actually not tired today, which is that is the
house Sandy portion of the show.
I'm debating on whether or notI'm going to keep doing that
portion of the show before weget to the house Sandy, because
you know how Sandy's becoming sobig right now with all your one
word responses.
Sandy (01:28):
It was more than one word today.
Terrance (01:30):
Well, we haven't gotten to that, so if you said
it, it don't count.
You got to say it again I wasgiving you the opportunity to
get something off your chest, totalk about something you wanted
to talk about, to shout outsomebody.
Shout out to Jax, who is overthere sleeping in his crate.
This new podcast area hasbecome one of his favorite areas
.
He spends a lot of time overhere until we start recording
(01:52):
and then he goes back over intohis crate.
Now, since we spent that amountof time talking about Jackson
not getting into you havingsomething to say, let's move
right into the house.
Sandy.
Portion of the episode.
Sandy, how are you today?
Sandy (02:12):
I'm all right.
I'm feeling more stressed thananything.
Terrance (02:15):
Why today?
Sandy (02:16):
It's just a lot going on this weekend.
Terrance (02:17):
See, and that's why I purposely am taking a break from
certain activities today.
Sandy (02:25):
Yeah.
Terrance (02:26):
We went to dinner last night.
You guys got this.
I don't know how long you'regoing to be going today.
And then tomorrow it's anotherevent.
I can't say what event is,because by the time this comes
out that event will be over.
But tomorrow it's another event.
I can't do three days in a row.
It's too much.
Yeah, and wait a minute.
(02:48):
And you went out for dinner onThursday.
I did.
Sandy (02:52):
Yeah, I did Sunday, saturday, sunday.
If I recall, it's four days ina row.
Terrance (02:59):
Yeah, If I recall you were talking about, you know,
really having the ability to sayno.
Sandy (03:08):
Yes.
However, I didn't want to sayno.
Well, there you go.
Yeah, I felt like it wasn't toomuch, because today is just
movies and a dinner.
I feel like it's kind ofrelaxing.
But, it's the other things thatpeople then try to put on my
calendar.
Like Ayla wants to do certainthings, my mother needs certain
(03:31):
things now.
And now all of a sudden, whereI wanted to have just a relaxing
movies and dinner day, it'slike, okay, now I got to figure
out when am I going to have timeto do this and that and so
forth and so on.
Terrance (03:46):
It sounds to me like you're living the dream, and
speaking of dreams.
That transitions right intowhat we're going to be talking
about today, and that is theAmerican dream.
Now you hear a lot about theAmerican dream and I think that
the American dream has, you know, changed, or I wouldn't say
(04:08):
change.
Well, I'm going to say change,but I think, depending on who
you ask, it's different andthere are a couple of factors
that go into what thosedifferences are.
But it's interesting to notethat that term, the American
dream, was actually coined by anauthor back in 1931, named
James Truslow Adams, andbasically he had this book, and
(04:32):
the book was called the Epic ofAmerica and the whole purpose of
the book was to remindAmericans that the myth of the
American dream never dies andsince the early foundation of
the American nation, people havestruggled to make that dream
come true.
So let's first start out by I'mgoing to ask you this question
(05:00):
what is the American dream toyou?
Sandy (05:05):
Good question I was going to.
I was more prepared to say ofwhat I felt, like it was as a
kid, I mean and that's, that's,that's fine.
Growing up, I felt like theAmerican dream was.
You know, you get married, youhave a house with a white picket
fence, two kids and a dog.
Yeah, it was never one for thewhite picket fence, but I hear
(05:25):
you Like that right there was,you know, oh, and it exists
successful job.
That was kind of like the, thepicturesque American dream, yeah
, um, yeah, I.
I wouldn't say that that's it,that's mine today.
Terrance (05:45):
So it's it's.
It's funny because in that book, right, truslow basically said
that the American dream was thatevery citizen of every rank can
expect to have a better, richer, happier life.
And those are very simple terms.
And I'll take a step back andsay 1931, that really didn't
(06:07):
apply to everybody, but that'sneither here nor there.
We'll.
We'll skip over that.
But if I look at that and I say,okay, well, to have a better,
richer, happier life, you cantake those things and break them
down and I think some of thosethings that you mentioned fall
under some of those categories.
But when you start talkingabout living a better life, when
(06:28):
I was coming up, I think thatliving a better life meant
having a better life than ageneration before you.
And when you start talkingabout having a better life, that
means some of the things thatyou mentioned better jobs, with
better jobs came, better pay, abetter home, better
neighborhoods all thosedifferent types of things fall
(06:52):
under to me that category ofliving better.
You can say better food.
You can say I mean there's alot of things that you can
actually say, yeah, justeverything is better.
Yeah, well, I mean in generalterms, right, yeah, everything,
everything better.
Now, when you start talkingabout you know, riches and
(07:13):
things like that, all thosethings start to fall in line if
everything is better.
I think one of the things that,to me, when you talk about the
American dream and you startlooking about, okay, well, let's
put the generation aside for asecond and look at it from the
(07:36):
perspective of those who werereally for lack of a better term
low on the socioeconomic, youknow totem pole or someone who
had just come over or, you know,immigrated into this country,
it's really about if you workedhard, you could have a better
(07:56):
life and you can gain riches andall those things through hard
work, and that was, I think,that played a big role in why,
you know, a lot of people cameand still, why a lot of people
come from other countries toAmerica.
But that was a big proponent ofyou know, the American dream If
(08:20):
you work hard, you can achieve.
Sandy (08:23):
Yeah, I just wonder at what point did it become like a
rat race over here, you knowwhat I mean.
And did that influence thatLike everybody just working hard
to succeed and to have betterridges and all that good stuff
Like, is that what kind of setthe precedent for that?
Terrance (08:44):
That's an interesting question and I can't really
speak too much on this, but I'mgoing to.
When I look at immigrants whocome to this country and the
work ethic that they bring withthem not taking anything away
from people who are actuallyhere I think when you look at
(09:05):
other cultures in othercountries, you know that hard
work ethic sometimes comes withthem and I know earlier on,
earlier generations, they builtthat hard work ethic because
when you look at what you know,the industries were in this
country.
When you start talking aboutwhether it was the auto industry
, the textile industry, allthose different things that we
(09:27):
used to actually create andmanufacture here in the States,
those were very laborious jobsand so in order for you to do
those jobs, you know you had tohave a very hard, you know a
very strong work ethic.
Sandy (09:44):
Well, I think it's because they have a goal and a
mission to accomplish, right,like I feel like people, when
they don't have that, tend tojust not work as hard, you know.
So if you are poor and you'restriving to be not poor, for
just simplistic terms, you havethat motivation pushing you
(10:07):
forward.
Now, if you were already bornin comfort, like where is your
motivation to live comfortably?
You're already livingcomfortably.
Terrance (10:15):
Yeah, so you said something that just sparked
something, right?
So when you don't have, theonly way that and the only legal
way that you can actually getis to actually work hard, and
that was up until a certainpoint.
(10:35):
So if you want to achieve, yougot to put in the work ethic.
Now there are some individualswho are more well-off than
others in that work ethicdoesn't actually have to be the
same.
So I think what happens is, astime goes on, things do get
better.
When I say things get better,I'm talking about from a
(10:58):
Technology perspective, from anindustry perspective.
All these new, modern toolsstart to come into place.
Mm-hmm which makes your workeasier or not necessarily your
work, the job that has to bedone, easier.
All these advances make thesethings easier and then a number
of things start to happen fromthe perspective of okay, that
(11:21):
part about working hard you canachieve.
Well, some of those jobs mightnot be available anymore because
of Advances and technology andindustry and those things like
that.
So you know, you may have astrong work ethic, but you might
not be in a position, yeah, towork.
(11:44):
You might not be in the sameposition to work the jobs that
you were able to work before,because now what happens is
those jobs as that, eitherthey're Either they're sent
overseas, they're farmed out.
Yeah, these new jobs.
Now you got to make sure thatyou're qualified for those
things, and that means now yougot to be educated to a certain
(12:05):
degree to actually Mm-hmm beinga position to be competitive to
actually get those jobs right.
And again you start when westart talking about living
better than the previousgeneration.
Education falls into that right.
The hope is that now, okay,well, your previous generation
or your parents or yourgrandparents might not have had
(12:26):
the opportunity To go and getschooled at a higher education.
Yeah, but now because Of theAmerican dream.
Yep.
You have that opportunity to goand get schooled and put
yourself in a position to bemore competitive in these other
markets that they didn't havethe opportunity to actually be
competitive in, and At one pointit was very Affordable to do so
(12:51):
.
Sandy (12:51):
Yeah, no, you're right, I think so.
For me I feel like my dream,and I wouldn't say it's
necessarily American, I thinkit's just universal.
Yeah it's just to live in peaceand comfort.
Yeah he's just, you know, nothave drama in my life.
Just you know they mean not,you know, just.
(13:13):
And then comfort like not bepoor, but I don't need to be the
ultra rich either, justcomfortable.
I prefer not to work, yeah.
Terrance (13:25):
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna touch on that, notthat you not working piece.
I'm gonna touch on what yousaid in a second, but the one
question that I well, the onearea I want to Touch first,
before we get there, is you know, in the beginning, when you
were defining the American dream, well, when you were younger,
marriage was a big part of itand I think for a while, for
(13:46):
most, for not for most people,for a lot of people growing up,
that was part of the Americandream.
And the question becomes Canthe American, can you, achieve
the American dream If, withinthat marriage, your dreams are
different or or, or or.
Let me rephrase that how do youhandle the challenge of
(14:11):
Achieving that American dream ifyou find out that the dreams
that each of you have isdifferent?
Sandy (14:20):
Yeah, so right.
I think the purpose of beingmarried within the American
dream is that it's two peopleworking together, right, you
know, to raise the two kids andthe dog and take care of the
white picket fence.
Terrance (14:36):
That's what I remember it being.
Your partner may not want a dog.
No, I know exactly.
Sandy (14:44):
So that's kind of like the purpose, right, I think, of
Marriage being part of theAmerican dream, because now you
have two people you know, youlive happily, ever after
together.
Right, you're sick and like,and you said you're going moving
towards that and dream, butyou're right, like what happens
when you don't.
(15:06):
How do you prioritize Whosedream is more important?
Terrance (15:10):
Well, two things.
One thing, that you use theword partnership in and early on
that's essentially Marriage waslooked at.
I mean, there was a love aspectof it, but more or less it was
okay.
Well, partnering with someoneso you can actually work
together to achieve more right.
To achieve that family but atthe same time, from an economics
perspective, you know, workingtogether and it might it didn't
(15:32):
always mean working togetherwhere both you had jobs, but
working together as a unit to toachieve those things.
The other part, from theperspective of prioritizing, I
think before you know, when youtalk about the American dream
and you talk about, okay, well,as a kid and I think for a lot
of people as kids and theyounger generations might be a
little different and definingthat but we'll get to that in a
(15:53):
second but I think you know,when you talk about finding that
someone as part of that dream,you got to make sure that when
you're Looking at the scale,Mm-hmm.
Well, you're doing interviews Iheard you want to call it you
have some alignment and what itis that you're trying to achieve
from that perspective of, okay,well, I have these dreams and
(16:13):
aspirations and you know, inorder to achieve them, I need to
work with somebody, or I needWell, either I got to work with
somebody who has some alignmentwith those or, listen, I got to
go on on my own right andachieve those.
Sandy (16:29):
That brings up an alas, that our problems right, like
you're with somebody and youknow that you have completely
different dreams, and then it'slike, oh, I can change their
mind.
Yeah, you know, but just yeahgood but I Think, I think
(16:50):
somebody's caving in all honestywhen it comes to the fact that
you're right.
Oh, hopefully, during thedating courting phase, whatever
the heck you want to call itthese days, you, you are finding
that you have thosecommonalities.
Yep.
And hence that's why you decideto move it forward.
(17:11):
But if you don't, and you stilldecide to go through with it, I
think right.
Either you decide that it's notworth it, Time to go find
somebody else or, like I said, Ithink somebody's caving.
Somebody's going to give uptheir dream?
Terrance (17:29):
for somebody else Fracture the American dream?
Yeah, I, compromise withcompromise would be a term that
I would say okay, well, when youget to that point, you got to
compromise.
If someone has to cave, thenchances are that there's
probably going to be a pointwhere that partnership is
actually going to end.
Yeah, depending on who theactual individual is.
(17:52):
And that's why sometimes youknow, when you start talking
about living a better, happier Ican't remember what else A
better, happier, you know,whatever life the question
becomes is that is that.
Can you really reach thepinnacle of that when you're
(18:16):
talking about an individualbeing married and that, and
that's why you know, there aresome questions that you have to
answer when you talk about, okay, well, what your dream is, and
does marriage align with thosedreams?
Because if you have two peoplewho can work on that and
prioritize, because you can be,you can have individual dreams
and goals and still functionwithin the confines of that
(18:39):
framework of a marriage.
But it would take compromise onboth sides and it's about
whether or not each individualis willing to actually do that.
Now let's go back to somethingyou said earlier about what your
dream was.
The question becomes and I knowthis.
Well, I believe I know theanswer is.
Well, I know the answer, I'mnot going to beat around the
(19:01):
bush.
The question becomes doeseveryone define that term, the
American dream, the same?
And the reason why I say thatis because when you start
looking at the generation todaywhen I say the generation today
I'm just talking about, I'm notthere are obviously, there's
multiple generations.
Let's take a step down and sayour kids, because we have two
(19:25):
who are in there, two who are intheir mid to upper twenties.
When they look at that phrasethat Truslow said, you know,
every citizen of every rank canexpect to be better, richer,
happier.
I think in some cases they'rechanging those terms because I
(19:47):
think some people think abouthappiness and equate happiness
to success.
Sandy (19:56):
Well, right.
So I was going to say first ofall, I don't think what was the
American dream?
Is everybody's Correct yeah?
That's correct, that's fair.
I think there's some maybeunderlying common aspects to it.
But not everybody wants to bemarried, not everybody wants two
(20:18):
kids, you know.
Not everybody wants to own ahome.
But with that you're right.
I think other things have kindof changed, like, like you said,
the happiness.
I think a lot of times happinessnow goes hand in hand, like
(20:42):
what you said, success and money.
Money will make you happy, butdoesn't really.
I don't think it really does.
I think there you need somewhatof some money, like you can't
be homeless and living off thestreets and be is that?
I don't know, maybe you can.
(21:02):
To be honest, I've never doneit personally and I'd prefer not
to.
But you know, can any of thosepeople be happy?
I don't know, I would.
I would say probably not.
Yeah.
At the same time, like, isthere a monetary value that goes
along with happiness?
(21:23):
I need, I think you need to atleast be able to take care of
your basic stuff, right, butthen after that, you know, I
don't think you need that muchmore to be happy.
But yet other people need moreto be happy.
They think they need more to behappy, like they need the grand
(21:44):
house, they need the flashy car.
Like you know, not everybody,but I'm just saying like I think
sometimes that they strive forthese things thinking that it's
going to make them happy.
Yeah.
Terrance (21:55):
And I think you know.
So everyone's definition ofhappiness is a little different.
Yeah, now, true happiness.
I think what happens is peoplecan get caught up in the term
happy and not really look at theactual totality of that
definition.
And when you start talkingabout equating money to
happiness there are people whoactually do that the question
(22:18):
becomes, behind closed doors,how?
How truly happy are they?
Are they?
And that's not something thatwe can answer.
But you said somethinginteresting earlier and there
was an actual study that wasdone and I don't remember who it
was by, but they pulledsomething out of it.
They pulled some youngergenerations and I can't remember
the age group about theAmerican dream, and 49% of them
(22:42):
felt that marriage didn'tnecessarily come into play.
Sandy (22:46):
When you start talking about the American dream, Well,
again, how we talked about, Ithink it's to them the contract
itself I guess we'll call it ofmarriage is not that important.
I think they probably stillwant somebody to be a partner in
(23:06):
life with.
But why?
Why do we need a piece of paper?
I think that's where they arestarting to question.
Terrance (23:16):
Yeah, we talked about that in a previous episode.
I think the tradition piecewhen you start talking about the
reason for marriage and youstart looking at what the
American dream was, that waspart.
It wasn't necessarily.
I'm not equating the reason tothe dream, but the dream was
listen and you, your success.
(23:37):
You, you've reached thepinnacle of success If you're
able to get married, buy a homeand have children, and that and
that was it right Now,traditionally, don't forget the
dog.
Traditionally, you know it'sbeen yeah, you want to get
(24:01):
married, I think when we hadthis conversation before.
I think that is changingbecause and I told you my
feeling on it I don'tnecessarily believe that two
people have to be married tocommit to each other.
Sandy (24:15):
Yeah.
So do you think, if you weregrowing up in today's times,
that you'd get married?
Terrance (24:21):
I don't know, I don't know.
I, you know, I like to play thelong game, and when I start
talking about playing the longgame and I talk about the
American dream, if there's goalsthat we want to achieve, we
have to start looking at whatthe formula is for us to
actually be able to achievethose.
And we have to be efficient andwe have to be smart.
Now, if we're gonna spend,let's say, $50,000 on a day
(24:48):
that's gonna come and go and youcan't recoup that cost, right,
was it worth it?
And I'm not gonna say was itworth it, but is it a better
investment to take that $50,000,invest it diversified and then
10, 15, 20 years, that $50,000is $500 to a million.
Sandy (25:09):
So would you bring up another good point?
So is that part of the idealwith the American dream too?
Not just marriage, but havealso a nice big wedding.
Because you don't need to spend$50,000 on a wedding.
You can literally just a coupleof people go where you wanna go
(25:29):
a church if that's where you'relooking to go, town hall if
that's where you're looking togo and actually get married.
Terrance (25:36):
That's interesting because I think part of it.
I think in some people it iswhen they talk about the wedding
.
Well, when they talk aboutmarriage, the big part of that.
Sandy (25:45):
They get about the wedding Party.
It's basically a huge party.
Terrance (25:49):
I've been yeah.
So when you said party, Iequated party with the people
who are part of the wedding.
Sandy (25:56):
Yeah, they're like the festival occasion of a wedding.
Terrance (26:00):
I think for some people, that is a big part of it
.
I think it depends on.
There are a number of thingsthat it depends on Culture
depends on it, the way thatbrought up religion.
There's a whole bunch thatactually plays a part of that.
I think now, if I was I thinkif I was coming up today I'd be
(26:21):
in that.
49% that did not includemarriage as part of the American
dream.
Companionship, commitment, yes,marriage.
No only because, again, knowingwhat I know now, knowing what
true happiness is and what'srequired at times and when I say
(26:44):
what's required in order to betruly happy, you have to, at
times, be in control of what itis that you want to do and what
you need to do, and there is afinancial aspect to that.
So, in order to get to thatpoint, you got to start thinking
(27:05):
about okay, well, how can Imake smart financial decisions
to put me in a position where,if I feel like I don't like
doing something at thisparticular point in time, I
don't have to do it and that'sgoing to actually make me happy.
Sandy (27:20):
Yeah, so I would have still wanted to get married, but
that's more religious purposesthan anything.
However, I probably would havepushed harder for what I really
wanted our wedding to be like,which was just us and a few
people on a beach.
Terrance (27:38):
Well getting married, you wouldn't have gotten the
beach.
I'm gonna tell you right now Iwould listen if you're just
talking about a small ceremonywith a few people and not that
large investment then I probablywould be able to get on board.
But again, I think part of itis too.
Sandy (27:54):
But yeah, not the big festival, huge occasion that we
had, but just something small,intimate, and, yes, I would have
preferred to have it on a nicesandy beach and had our
honeymoon there while we're atit.
Terrance (28:10):
Yeah, you know what else was interesting and you
mentioned this earlier when theywere talking about that study a
big part of that was whether ornot marriage would hinder
someone from achieving theirversion of the American dream.
Because again, you starttalking about that whole what's
(28:33):
priority and those things, andwho caves and who doesn't Right.
Sandy (28:39):
I think, if my American dream was just riches like
that's all you cared about is Iwanna work my butt off and I
wanna spoil myself with everyluxury that there is out there.
I don't know if I'd wanna bemarried, because then the
marriages or even in arelationship, potentially
(29:03):
because that unless that personis bringing something to that,
they're making their own richeslike they're completely on the
same page.
At that point I think it woulddistract me from my dream,
because now I have to.
Now I can't work 10 hour daysbecause I have to actually put
in some time and investment withthis other person.
(29:24):
That isn't bringing anything to.
I went.
That's so cynical, but you knowwhat I mean that's not bringing
anything to it.
Terrance (29:33):
I think it's time for us to switch gears.
And then it's starting to godown that dark road again, so
let's kick happiness to the sidefor a second right.
There were three terms better,richer, happier, the better part
or the richer part.
Sandy (29:47):
Well, we'll go with better, because I think better
you're right.
I think we all stand on theshoulders of somebody else to
help us be where we are.
Not many of us start at thevery bottom and crawl our way up
to the top alone, Like it'susually I mean, there are some,
but there's not there are somedefinitely.
Terrance (30:08):
Well, and you know what I think?
No, I think you have a pointthere from the perspective of
when we start talking about,when you think about better, as
advancement has come along, thatautomatically makes a lot of
your life better, and by thatwhat I mean is advancements in-.
Sandy (30:26):
Whoever invented the rice cooker, I love them.
Terrance (30:30):
We can say technology, but transportation, medicine,
all of those things I was gonnasay.
You know food, but there's awhole-.
Announcer (30:43):
Yeah, yeah that's the whole other thing.
Terrance (30:44):
There's a whole different things, but I do think
that the generations up into apoint may have the opportunity
of living better Now.
I say that because one of thebig issues that we face right
now that some people don'tbelieve is true is the whole
(31:05):
climate situation.
Sandy (31:06):
Okay, cause I was gonna say we're definitely living
longer right now.
Terrance (31:10):
I think there's a lot that goes into that.
I think you know obviouslybetter medicine and things like
that.
Sandy (31:16):
But yeah, I wouldn't say that the climate is better.
Terrance (31:19):
Well, no, climate control is a huge issue, and so
when I say for a while, what Imean is, you know we are living
longer, medicine's better, theway that the knowledge that we
have about the things that weneed to do, you know, is better.
The ability to detect certainthings again, advancements in
medicine is better, and thatrequires, I mean, and that leads
to people living longer.
(31:41):
The other part about that is, Ithink a lot of people are more
invested in themselves and theyare making more healthier
choices and whether it be, youknow, exercise, eating right,
those things and I think thoselead to people living longer and
which then you can classify asthe ability to live better.
(32:02):
Let's get to the richer partand the well, you know what?
And these two are kind ofjoined at the hip, because when
you talk about living better,when I look at the future
generations and I say okay, Ilook at what we have now and I
(32:22):
think that I know for me, I livein a better house than my
relatives did growing up, I haveaccess to better things, and in
part of that there is afinancial aspect that's tied to
(32:42):
that.
When I look at the girls comingup, I look at that opportunity
kind of slipping away.
Not the medicine,transportation, technology, but
when you look at things like thecost of living is increasing
and the wage increase is notequivalent.
(33:03):
Not equivalent right.
Sandy (33:08):
Home ownership.
I was gonna say the price ofhome.
Oh, home ownership.
Terrance (33:15):
And in conjunction with the interest rates and all
those things, even rent rates,it is very difficult right now
for the people who don't ownhomes one to get into the actual
market but two, even the fineplaces, to actually rent and
(33:38):
that doesn't seem like it'sslowing down Historically.
Cost of living, cost of homes,those type of things, they
increase and if the cost of homeownership increases and you're
in a situation where it'skeeping people from being able
(33:59):
to get into that market, thenthat means that they actually
have to rent.
And if the demand for rentalsis high supply and demand it's
just gonna keep rising the costup to get in.
Sandy (34:15):
Yeah, which is right.
I think it's very difficultthese days, especially if they
don't have the support systemthat you might have with your
parents, like if your parentsare just like, all right, you're
18, get out, like you're really, they're gonna be back at
square one, right, like unlessyou have the help there.
(34:36):
And it just you made me thinkof something that we were
talking about the other night,which really has nothing to do
with the American dream, but ithad to do with clothes and
styles coming back, and so itmade me think about that
conversation and it makes mewonder is there certain things
that people used to do back inthe past that may also come back
(35:01):
If you think about it?
Usually, homes weremulti-generational.
You had, like the grandparents,the parents and the children all
and well, I guess thegrandchildren all living in one
house and working together aslike a common unit.
You know what I mean.
Yeah.
Is that gonna potentiallybecome back almost like the
(35:25):
dream?
I think it may.
Because like to help.
Like they say, it takes avillage to raise kids and it
does.
And think about how expensivedaycare is, like it was
expensive enough when we had it,but I can only imagine trying
to put multiple kids throughdaycare today.
You know.
Terrance (35:47):
I think a lot of that is coming back and I think the
way that certain individuals inthis next generation think about
that is changing and I thinkthat they have the opportunity
or, from their perspective ofthe American dream, that is the
type of stuff that's actuallygonna make them richer.
And when I say richer I don'tnecessarily mean financially,
(36:09):
because although some of themequate, you know, happiness with
success.
At the same time, you startedtalking about all these clothes
and things coming back.
That same study found that thenext generation is less
concerned with amassing a wholebunch of possessions and being
(36:33):
more fiscally responsible fromthe perspective and, to a point,
they have to be Fiscallyresponsible when it comes to
those things.
They're more in tune toexperiencing things which leads
to happiness and fulfillment andrichness in their lives.
So that American dream, whenyou start talking about home
(36:57):
ownership and those things thatmight not be at the forefront in
all their minds, but there issome level of happiness or
richness or fulfillment which Ithink is smart, because now,
when you look at what has andour generation and a generation
before part of that Americandream, when we start talking
(37:18):
about the American dream, a lotof those people are there.
Let's be honest.
We live in a capitalisticsociety.
A lot of people look at theAmerican dream as I wanna be
able to make as much money aspossible, and that's it.
Yeah.
Because of the challenges thatare now in the forefront.
It provides the opportunity forthe younger generation, or the
(37:40):
next generation, to think aboutthese things different and
they're much more willing tohave an experience that is going
to enrich their lives, to reuseor be more cost effective when
it comes to purchases and thingslike that, and that it's all
(38:01):
tied because when you startdoing things like that, that
leads to the opportunity for youto have those resources to go
and have these experiences.
When you start talking about Iwanna travel, I wanna spend time
with my family, so I thinkthat's a good thing.
Sandy (38:14):
Yeah, which is kind of funny because when you first
said riches, I wasn't thinkingmonetary, I was thinking just a
richer life, like a morefulfilling type of life.
And you're right, there wasanother study that was done as
(38:35):
well in more people today,rather than giving materialistic
gifts or doing experiences,like that Cause.
Now that goes hand in hand withso many other things climate
control.
You don't have a bunch of wasteout there right.
Just us amassing great amount ofstuff.
People are traveling more wellthat one could actually impact
(38:58):
the climate too, but we won'tget into that.
Terrance (39:01):
Gotta be some give and take.
Sandy (39:02):
Right, some give and take .
Maybe not have as much plasticin the world, but we'll let out
some fumes from the airplane.
But, anyhow.
So, yeah, so it's become and Ithink that is a richer life, is
being able to like, experiencethings and just feeling
(39:23):
fulfilled and not just working.
But again, that's my particularvision, but it seems to be in
line with what is happening outthere with the majority as well.
Terrance (39:37):
Well, no, what that does, it does prove the point.
It does prove the point thateveryone's definition is a
little different.
Right, when, when Truslow wasmentioning that you know better,
richer, happier life.
When, when he mentioned riches,they were talking about from
the perspective of okay, well,you got, yeah, so you gotta
remember this is 1931, they weretalking about money, but people
(39:58):
look at riches and it'sdifferent.
I think one of the things thatit does for me is it gives me
much more confidence in thisyounger generation.
You know, I tell you all thetime I'm concerned about you
know how our kids are going tobe able to make that leap, to be
in a better position than wewere.
But when I start doing researchand I start looking at what it
(40:23):
is that the younger generationviews, as you know, a rich life,
a happy life, and they're moreinto the experiences and they're
more in tune to the environmentand what's going on and those
type of things, that gives meconfidence in the sense that
they're going to be all right.
Yeah.
(40:43):
So we started talking about theAmerican dream and as we went
through this conversation, it'sclear that the dream has changed
and many people define itdifferently.
So I was going to ask thequestion and I'm not because I'm
, you know, I think it's time wewrap.
I was going to ask the questionis the American dream
(41:07):
attainable?
And the answer to that is yes,because each person defines that
differently.
I think we're at a point nowwhere each generation is going
to look at what it is that theywant to accomplish in their life
and that is going to definewhat that dream is for them, and
(41:28):
I think that that's a greatthing, because the traditional
definition of what the Americandream was is not as easily
attainable as it was at onepoint in time.
With that out the way, it istime for my weekly reflection.
I saw this the other day.
Well, I saw this happen theother day and it clicked.
(41:54):
So sometimes it takes one personto question what it is you're
doing.
Before you question what it isyou're doing, and let me explain
what I mean.
Not everything that we're goingto do is going to be really in
our best interests, and we mightnot see it at first.
Sometimes it takes someonequestioning you, saying what the
(42:17):
hell is it that you're doing?
Why are you doing that?
For you to actually be able toopen your eyes and then
understand wow, maybe this issomething that I shouldn't be
doing.
This is not going to work outfor me in the long run, so it's
good to make sure that you haveindividuals who are around you
who can pose those questions toyou when that opportunity comes
(42:41):
up.
That's it for this episode.
Thank you for listening to theLunch with Sandy podcast.
Please be sure to follow us andleave feedback on your favorite
podcasting app.
Until next time, stay well.
Announcer (42:57):
That's it for this week's episode of the Lunch with
Sandy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
We'd love to hear your feedbackand comments on Instagram,
TikTok and Twitter at Lunch withSandy, and be sure to follow us
on your favorite podcast app.
If you enjoyed the show, don'tforget to rate and review us.
Thanks again for listening tothe Lunch with Sandy podcast.
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