April 6, 2024 • 34 mins
Navigating the choppy seas of marital communication, Sandy and I get real about the true colors of verbal and nonverbal exchanges between partners. The nuances can be as subtle as the difference between an earnest "whatever you want" and a resigned one, and recognizing these shades of meaning can make or break understanding in a relationship. We don't shy away from gendered communication differences either—expect to hear about the bluntness often found in men's words versus the riddled expressions women may use.
Ever found yourself baffled by your partner's silence or those minimal responses that leave you guessing? We're right there with you, and in this episode, we're peeling back the layers of these nonverbal cues. From the importance of context in decoding your significant other's message to the peculiar ways indecision can reveal itself, our conversation is a treasure trove of insights. We'll even share some personal stories, like that time when choosing the right outfit or dealing with buyer's remorse offered a window into our relationship's dynamics.
Finally, we wrap things up by underscoring the pivotal role of empathetic listening and the journey to mastering the craft of heartfelt dialogue. Learning to interpret your partner's silent signals is an art form, one that flourishes with patience and empathy. The episode touches on the need for clarity in expressing emotions and trust as the cornerstone of impactful communication. Join us for this lunchtime deep dive where we bridge the gap between genders, tackle the distortions of digital communication, and advocate for the kind of earnest conversations that can only happen face-to-face.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:01):
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best
policy?
How do you balance what youwant versus what you need, and
is there something you need tosay to your spouse but can't
find the right way to say it?
If so, then you're in the rightplace.
This is the Lunch with Sandypodcast.
With nearly 20 years ofmarriage under their belts,
Terrance and Sandy Jacksondiscuss a range of topics,
(00:22):
provide valuable insights onrelationships and talk about the
conversations married couplesneed to have.
So what does lunch have to dowith all of this?
Well, it's a metaphor for howthese conversations originally
started.
Speaking of conversations,let's get one going.
Here's your hosts, Terrance andSandy.
Terrance (00:43):
Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast, where we delve intovarious topics and offer
insights from the perspective ofa married couple I'm Terrance
and I'm Sandy and today we'regoing to be discussing the
hidden meaning behind some ofthe communication practices that
Sandy has.
But first, please be sure tofollow the Lunch with Sandy
(01:04):
podcast on your favorite podcastand app, and you can also
follow us on all social media atlunch with Sandy.
Speaking of Sandy, she's herewith me.
Sandy (01:15):
Present, present Goodness .
Terrance (01:19):
What's going on?
Sandy (01:20):
Uh, not much.
I don't know if our listenerscan tell our voices Well in our
voices, because we had a latenight last night and probably
shouting over music, I feel likeour voices both of us, are
really hoarse.
Terrance (01:39):
Listen, speak for yourself.
I am too.
Listen.
It was a.
It was a late night last night,but all in good fun.
Sandy (01:47):
Yes, Um, Aila's still upstairs sleeping, she's going
to have to get up soon, I know.
Terrance (01:53):
We got places to be Not going to be out as late as
it was last night.
Sandy (01:57):
Oh, definitely not.
I can't do two nights in a row.
Terrance (02:00):
Not like that, Not like that.
So, uh, we've had at nauseam anumber of conversations or
spoken about how effectivecommunication is essential for
any relationship, and it'simportant to remember that.
(02:21):
You know, typically in arelationship there are two forms
or two ways of communicating,and by that what I mean is
there's the verbal and thenthere's the nonverbal.
So it's important to be able tonot only understand you know,
the verbal cues, your partnermay be putting out, but you also
(02:42):
need to understand or learnthose nonverbal cues that
sometimes can put you in asituation that you need to
actually be aware of.
So let's tackle this basicallyfrom you know both those
(03:03):
perspectives, and we'll startwith you know the verbal what
does?
the Andy do.
Well, we're going to get intothat.
We ain't there yet, but we'regoing to get into that.
But you know, communication,when you're talking about it
from the verbal perspective,normally seems pretty
straightforward.
Well, let me rephrase that itis supposed to be
(03:25):
straightforward.
But you know, everyone hastheir own way of communicating
and everyone is different.
So sometimes what is said iswhat is not meant.
Sandy (03:37):
Those underlying.
Terrance (03:38):
Yeah, well, I mean intentions.
Sometimes I often wonder,particularly with Sandy, if she
knows what it is that she'strying to say.
Sandy (03:47):
But probably only like 45% of the time.
Terrance (03:52):
So I'm glad you said that, because my first question
to you was going to be this Doyou think you always say what
you mean?
Sandy (04:03):
You're taking way too long to answer that because I,
you know, I feel like it alsokind of depends on context, Like
the setting that we are in thecontext.
If I always say what I mean, Idon't even know what to do.
Terrance (04:23):
I don't mean so I guess I understand that I can
provide an example.
Go ahead.
Sandy (04:27):
That makes it easier.
So if we're talking right, likein, you need me to help you
make a decision, or whatever,like hey, I was thinking about
doing this or what do you thinkabout this?
Instead, and then I'll say like, oh, whatever you want, you
know what I mean.
I literally mean whatever youwant, Like it doesn't make a
(04:49):
difference to me.
But you know, if we'rediscussing and maybe not seeing
eye to eye on something and it'syou know.
I don't want to say arguing,because you know we don't argue
much, but well, actually I guesswe don't fight much, but we do
disagree.
That's a better term.
Terrance (05:08):
I'd have to agree to disagree.
Sandy (05:09):
Yeah.
So if we're just disagreeingand we're not seeing eye to eye
and I'm like whatever you want,like that's me giving up, you
know what I mean, so it's.
So I feel like context in thesituation is very key.
So, you know, in the secondsituation I'm saying whatever
(05:33):
you want, but to me it's not,it's I just give up.
It's really what my, myunderlying meaning is.
Terrance (05:41):
So the basis is sometimes you have to have your
secret decoder ring actuallydecode what actually is being
said you know, in a lot of caseswhere people say whatever you
want, they don't really meanwhatever you want.
Sandy (05:56):
It's one of those things where if someone says whatever
you want, they're just saying ehright, and so I feel like the
majority of the time when I saywhatever you want, I literally
mean sure, whatever you want.
But if it's a situation wherewe're not seeing eye to eye,
this is causing disagreement bywhatever you want.
So maybe that 5% means I giveup 5%.
Terrance (06:22):
I think that when we start talking about verbal
communication, men and women aredifferent in a lot of ways and,
again, everyone is different.
But I think from the maleperspective, or at least from me
, my communication is verydirect, and by that what I mean
is, if I say something, that'sexactly what I mean, right, and
I think that, particularly withyou, most of the time that's the
(06:46):
case.
Well, let me take a step backSome of the time.
That's the case, becausesometimes you say some things
and I don't even know if youknow what you mean when you say
it.
But there's also the aspect oflike, if I ask you something or
if I ask for your input onsomething, you do this thing
where I always interpret it andI know what the answer is.
If I ask you something and youdon't respond, then the answer
(07:09):
is no.
Sandy (07:10):
I take that as a no all the time, but that's not
accurate it might not beaccurate, but at the same time
we've had this conversation anumber of times and I told you
that when you don't respond tome, that's a response and I take
that as a no.
Right, and so I have clarifiedwith you that it does not mean
no, it means I'm working outthings in my own brain.
(07:31):
I haven't really come to adecision if I don't say anything
, but at the same time I havealso said I'll try to give you
some verbal communication.
Terrance (07:43):
Yes, you gotta start doing that, Because I know you
say it doesn't mean no, but atthe same time it continues to
happen and so in my defense, I'ma very internal person.
Sandy (07:54):
Like I talk to myself often, I'm always working things
out in my brain, I don't knowwhen.
I never really grew up talkingabout my feelings and talking
through things, so that outwardverbal communication is it
doesn't come easy to me.
Terrance (08:11):
I'm gonna help you with that.
I'm gonna help you with that.
Here's what you say.
I'll get back to you on that.
Sandy (08:17):
Yeah, there you go.
I know simple and sweet, rightI'll get back to you on that.
But to me it's like my brainjust starts automatically
thinking Do you know what I mean?
And then I just it's notintentional.
I honestly just forget to say,okay, I'll get back to you.
Terrance (08:36):
I think that there are some common phrases and I don't
know if it's because over time,so many people have used them,
and when I'm saying people rightnow I'm talking about women.
I think there's some commonphrases that when men hear women
say something, the meaningbehind what they say, the
meaning behind what they'resaying, isn't the same.
(08:57):
Like, for instance, if I askyou something and you say maybe,
maybe's no, maybe's no, orhere's the big one.
The big one is if I ask you iseverything okay?
And you say it's fine.
Sandy (09:19):
I think that's a specific one again for the context of
the situation.
Terrance (09:23):
Granted.
Context does play a role inthat, but for the most part I
would say the overall.
If you were to poll peopleoverall, men, overall, they
would say, oh, she says she'sfine, she ain't fine, she's
pissed, she's pissed that andRight, like am I avoiding you?
Sandy (09:44):
And then you come ask me is everything okay?
And I'm like I'm fine.
Yeah, that's probably does notmean I'm fine.
Terrance (09:52):
Yeah, context is important, and I think there's
one or two questions that womenask.
They ask the question but it'snot really the question that
they wanna ask, or it's justasking the question for some
form of confirmation, and it'salways this one and it's this
when we did the episode abouthonest communication.
(10:16):
Stop asking, guys.
Does this make me look fat?
Sandy (10:22):
So I don't ask that, but I do ask how do I look?
Terrance (10:27):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sandy (10:28):
And it could be in either way.
It could be like I'm indecisiveabout this outfit.
Terrance (10:32):
You're indecisive about a lot of things, but go
ahead.
Sandy (10:34):
So thanks, honey.
Or like fishing for acompliment?
Terrance (10:43):
And that's the other thing.
Sandy (10:44):
So one of the two you can .
Honestly you can just put, likeany Webster dictionary,
definition one, definition two.
So, okay, first, is it, sandyis indecisive, like let me maybe
ask some questions to get tothat answer?
Okay, no, she's not indecisive,she's just looking for a
compliment.
Terrance (11:02):
But here's the difference where we communicate.
Sandy, you look wonderful.
Yes, because you know me, I'mvery literal and I tell you all
the time you look fine, yougotta wear what you like, yeah.
Sandy (11:15):
But, yeah, I like to wear what I like on me, that you
like too, unfortunately for you,like I wouldn't have bought it
if I didn't like it, so hence,well, I don't that's again you
know, that's not.
Terrance (11:30):
That's a different episode.
Sandy (11:31):
That's not always the case.
Terrance (11:33):
I do think there are a lot of things that you buy just
because you might see it in amoment and you're not decisive
about it, and you decide toactually get it.
And then, once you have it, youhave it, and then when it comes
time to actually put it on,then that's when you're
indecisive and you gotta decidewhether or not you like it.
Sandy (11:49):
I've gotten a lot better at that.
That's why I really need toupgrade my closet wardrobe,
because I'm so bad at justshopping and I try not to just
buy stuff, just to buy itanymore.
Terrance (12:04):
Yeah, one last statement, or one last piece
when we start talking about theverbal communication and this is
not just for you, but I'm gonnaI'm gonna Attach it to you
because you do this a lot-Please.
Let me know, I just need 10minutes.
That's not true.
Sandy (12:25):
Oh, forgetting ready.
Terrance (12:26):
That's not true.
It's never 10 minutes.
Sandy (12:29):
I don't know.
Yesterday I did pretty good.
I said I'll be ready by thetime you get home, and what I
was.
Terrance (12:36):
Oh, you're talking about when I got back from the
Western.
I mean well you weren't readybecause Jack's hadn't taken the
dog out to use the bathroom.
Sandy (12:41):
I didn't realize he needed to go out.
Terrance (12:43):
Really you were leaving the house for.
Sandy (12:46):
I was in the shower.
We were gone for six hours.
I thought maybe you had alreadydid that.
Terrance (12:50):
No, because you sent me to go pick up the food, but
before that, what you could haveasked?
I didn't, you didn'tcommunicate, I didn't.
Sandy (12:58):
Neither did you.
You could have texted me like,hey, while I'm gone, take Jack's
out.
See, it goes both ways.
Terrance (13:04):
It doesn't go both ways, because you know what.
You have a dog, just like Ihave a dog, and you're leaving
the house you should be, youknow what.
Let me just take him out.
Even if I took him out, let mejust take him out.
So he goes to the bathroom.
Sandy (13:17):
Okay, whatever you want.
Terrance (13:18):
There you go, there you go.
Sandy (13:21):
But you know, the maybe, I feel like the maybe.
I don't use the maybe on you, Iuse the maybe on the kids.
Yeah, no, but they were growingup all the time and that was
because it didn't mean no, it'sbecause I'm not going to answer
this question without daddy.
Terrance (13:36):
Again.
Now let's talk about using thedecoder ring.
So, rather than maybe you knowwhat, I have to have a
conversation with someone, solet me get back to you.
Sandy (13:48):
Which is funny because that's I have gotten more into
the habit of doing that withAyla.
She asked me a question lastnight.
For the life of me I can't evenremember what it was and I said
that's a.
Oh, I remember what it is now,but anyhow, I was like that's a
question to ask to daddy and Itogether.
So it wasn't a.
Maybe it was.
(14:08):
Bring it up one word together.
Terrance (14:13):
And that's how it should be.
So I mentioned earlier thatthere are two ways we
communicate, and we talked alittle bit about the verbal
communication.
So I want to hit on thenonverbal aspect for a minute.
But just like the verbal cues,nonverbal cues well, actually
(14:33):
even more so than the verbalcues nonverbal cues have to be
decoded.
There are some that are prettystraightforward when you talk
about okay, well, this person isdoing that.
Sandy (14:48):
You know and you know what they mean.
I'm pretty sure I know mine,yeah.
Terrance (14:50):
Well, wait, listen.
So what are some nonverbal cuesthat you've regularly used?
Sandy (14:57):
So again, it's like context is everything and the
conversation.
I feel like so if we're havinga conversation right and it's
not like you just asked me aquestion and I go silent because
you know my brain is trying tolike work itself out, if we're
either disagreeing something orwe're trying to like work
(15:19):
through something and I gosilent, then that probably just
means like I need to step awayfrom this conversation.
And if I do go silent and walkaway, that means I really need
to get out of this conversation.
The walking away means like Ineed 10 minutes, but not those
(15:41):
kind of 10 minutes to get ready,and it's not 10 minutes.
It depends.
Terrance (15:47):
It's normally a lot more than 10 minutes.
Yeah, so you know me.
I just stopped talking.
I don't walk away.
Yeah, Non-communicate.
Sandy (15:57):
You just get the one word answers.
Terrance (16:00):
Yep very minimal conversation.
Sandy (16:03):
What do you want for dinner?
I don't care.
Terrance (16:05):
No, it's chicken.
Sandy (16:07):
The answer to that is always chicken.
Terrance (16:09):
There are some things that you know.
There's some straightforward,non-verbal communications that
are easy to pick up, Like ifyou're sitting here with your
arms crossed and you got a screwface on.
Sandy (16:19):
So my arms crossed do not mean anything, but I'm cold.
Terrance (16:23):
But there was an added piece to that.
I said you had a screw face on.
It means your face is mad.
You know angry face.
Sandy (16:31):
Yeah, but I feel like sometimes you think I have a
screw face on and it's.
Terrance (16:34):
I'm just in my own head again Fix your face, I'll
fix my face.
No, listen.
Sandy (16:39):
You all heard it in here first Fix your face.
Terrance (16:42):
Listen, I know when you're in your head, because you
do this thing with your lips.
When you're in your head, whenyou're thinking, you do.
That's part of your non-verbalcommunication.
When you do this you think it.
Sandy (16:55):
Well, that's good to know that I do that.
Terrance (16:57):
You do it all the time .
Sandy (16:59):
Aila says I just start staring and she thinks I'm
staring at her.
Terrance (17:02):
Yeah, because you do.
You'll be looking directly ather.
Sandy (17:04):
But I'm not, I'm like, but I am not looking.
But it's funny because I'm notseeing her, like I'm not
actually looking at her, my mindhas kind of gone elsewhere.
I'm just like thinking, and I'mjust, my eyes are looking in
one direction, but I don't seeanything that's actually in
front of me.
Terrance (17:24):
Yeah, there's some non-verbal stuff that you do.
That's not easy to actuallydecode but, like I said, the
staring.
I don't know what you're doingIf I'm staring at you.
Sandy (17:36):
It's because I'm not staring at you.
Terrance (17:38):
But there's some typical ones, and this is not
necessarily you, but when peopleavoid others, like I said,
facial expressions you can tella lot from the facial
expressions, body language,things like that and I think it
comes down to you have to knowwho it is you're in a
relationship with.
You got to learn those thingsfrom those from your partners,
(17:59):
and that happens over time.
But you got to learn thembecause if you don't, you end up
putting yourself in a situationwhere you can be in a whole lot
of hot water.
Sandy (18:11):
Without even knowing.
Terrance (18:12):
Yeah yeah, like I said , it takes time for you to
actually come to learn thosethings.
So the question becomes how doyou get to that point?
How do you get to a point whereyou've come to know what it is
that your partner's trying torelay, when they ain't saying?
Sandy (18:37):
I feel like practice makes perfect.
I think over time, you just ifyou're paying attention to your
partner, you are going toautomatically learn some of
those things.
Terrance (18:50):
Yeah, we've talked about this before, but I think
it's important to be open andhonest when communicating.
Yeah, because you may look ator you may take a non-verbal cue
or something that someone, yourpartner, says and completely
(19:13):
misinterpret it and that can bean issue.
But if you have that open andhonest communication, you can
have a conversation about it.
And then, when you have theconversation about it, then you
can get to the root of the issueif there is one or understand
that this is just me.
Sandy (19:31):
And I think the other thing is don't assume that your
partner has picked up on thoseLike.
I can't believe he doesn'trealize how upset I am or
something.
I think that's something thatwe've worked on too, where if I
do walk away or whatnot, I'llyou know once I calm down and my
(19:52):
emotion is out of it.
You know, because I feel likethat when you try to talk
through things in emotion andstill in it, that sometimes
it'll just precipitate anotherargument.
But I'll be like you reallyupset me when you said blank,
yeah, you know, you gotta sayhuh what, I didn't say that.
Terrance (20:14):
No, I think it's important too, you know.
Just based off that, you gottabe empathetic to each other.
You gotta be able to putyourself in each other's shoes,
and that way you can understandwhat that person may or may not
be feeling at that particulartime.
Sandy (20:30):
Yeah, and how really important is it?
I feel like now, as years havepassed, I look back and I'm like
you know what?
It's not even important anymore.
Terrance (20:41):
Yes, you're talking about communication, learning
communication ain't important,no, not communication, but like
something that we might bedisagreeing on or whatnot.
Sandy (20:49):
It's like, you know, in the whole scheme of things, is
it really that important?
And I'm thinking like no, it'snot, like we spent you know time
disagreeing about I don't knowX.
I can't really think ofanything specific at this moment
in time but it's like wow, atthe end of the day, it's just.
(21:09):
It's like as long as you'reinvested in each other, it ends
up all working out anyways.
Terrance (21:15):
Yeah, I think all I think, based on what I said
earlier too with you know,having that open and an honest
communication, part of the waythat you get there is building
trust with each other.
So you have that openness andonce you have that trust too,
you know, when you start talkingabout different situations, if
you trust that your partnerwouldn't intentionally put you
(21:39):
in a situation where you feelwhatever way that it is that you
actually feel, then you havethat to lean back or to pull
back and say, hey, listen, maybeI need to look at this from a
different perspective.
Maybe I need to have aconversation.
Maybe I might be in my own headand I need to take 10 minutes
which is normally not 10 minutesto go work that out and then
(22:01):
come back and see what thesituation really is.
Sandy (22:04):
Yeah, no, I agree because I feel like maybe in the past I
would take certain commentarylike you're purposely trying to
hurt my feelings and I've cometo recognize that that's not the
intention, because I do trustyou and I know that you're not
purposely trying to hurt myfeelings Like this chicken
tastes horrible.
Terrance (22:23):
And that's just me being honest, that's just
because to you.
Sandy (22:26):
The chicken tastes horrible, like it's not anything
to do with.
You know my skills as a cook.
Something happened with thatchicken today that it just did
not come out right.
Yeah yeah.
Terrance (22:41):
Listen and so my from me again.
When it comes to communicating,I'm very direct, and if the
chicken tastes horrible, I feelit's part of my duty to let you
know.
Hey, listen, this chicken,though, tastes good, this
chicken is horrible.
Sandy (22:57):
Yeah, I know and it's you know.
It's just like anything elseand I know we've talked about it
in a past episode, but you kindof bring that baggage with you
from prior situations andsometimes it just takes the time
to know that you know to trustthe person and know that you're
(23:20):
that.
Yeah, it's just you beingdirect and you're not trying to
be hurtful.
Terrance (23:23):
Yeah, and I think at the same time, too, I think you
have to be able to listen andobserve your partner, because
sometimes things are gonna besaid that aren't said.
Sandy (23:33):
Yeah, well, it's like if I saved over that they're still
for two hours and then you'lllike the chicken is horrible.
Like, at least appreciate thetime that I spent freaking,
making the damn chicken.
Listen.
Terrance (23:44):
I appreciate the time you put into the chicken, but
this shit is horrible.
Sandy (23:49):
Yeah, exactly, perfect yeah.
Terrance (23:51):
And you know, the thing about it is you know, I
always again, it's not alwayssaid, but I always appreciate
the effort that you put in.
But at the same time, I thinkit's important to you know, be
mindful of the fact that, eventhough, when you're
communicating directly, noteveryone also communicates that
way.
So when you do that, you canhave a negative impact on the
(24:13):
person who you're communicatingwith.
True, that's not that I don'tappreciate you making the nasty
chicken, it's just nasty.
Sandy (24:22):
And I feel like I've learned through my life who
those people are that are justdirect, yeah, and they're not
trying to intentionally hurtsomebody's feelings, they're
just calling it like it is yeah,yeah to when you're in a
relationship to make sure or toget to where you're trying to go
(24:46):
together.
Terrance (24:48):
Communication is very, very important.
I think that there are certainthings that you should have a
strategy or a plan for whenyou're talking about how you're
gonna communicate.
Sandy (24:59):
Right.
Terrance (25:00):
Because you get involved with someone and now
you see this plan at, or thispath that lays out in front of
you.
Right, okay, maybe you plan ongetting married or being
lifelong partners, or howeveryou wanna call it.
Finances are gonna come intothe picture.
Now you start talking aboutmoney, things can get a little
(25:22):
iffy.
So how are you gonnacommunicate with each other when
you start talking about thefinances you may want to have or
you may wanna build a family?
You gotta have thatcommunication and it has to be
clear, because if one personwants kids and the other person
doesn't want kids and they don'tknow how to effectively
communicate, that you might begoing down a path where you
(25:44):
think someone may be on the samepage with you and they may not
be.
Sandy (25:50):
Yeah.
Terrance (25:51):
The other.
You know there's just a wholebunch of other stuff that comes
along with.
Okay, well, move in together.
So if you can have a plan forhow you're going to communicate
when you start talking aboutthose things and I think the
first part of that plan isactually talking about those
things- yeah, so I think, firstof all, you don't start the
(26:14):
conversation, as we need to talk.
Oh yeah, that's the other thingyou know what and the thing
with that is too.
Sandy (26:21):
Do not so, cause that's just gonna automatically, like
you know, you'll stir upinstantaneously Everybody's
defensive.
Terrance (26:29):
It's so funny that you said that because you know.
Going back to verbal, you knowthe verbal aspect.
There's a different meaningbehind when you say we need to
talk, everyone knows what thatmeans.
When you say we need to talk,all right, that's it.
Something's over.
Sandy (26:40):
Right, like all right, this is gonna be right or this
is gonna be an argument already.
Terrance (26:45):
Yeah.
Sandy (26:47):
You know.
Hence, yeah, walls are up,defenses are up, like there's
really no, there's gonna benothing good that, I feel like,
is gonna come out of thatconversation if you start with
that tagline.
Terrance (27:00):
Yep, Shanty, remove that phrase from your vocabulary
.
Sandy (27:04):
Well.
So and this is where I find itdifficult, and it would be nice
to have the perspective of moreof a newer couple, cause I feel
like we've been together so longlike I don't even remember how
we initiated those conversationslike how do you do that today,
zane?
I'm not sure, but I think it'slike, like you said, kind of
just communicating and almostlike preparing.
Like you know, I think we needto start, I think we need to
(27:25):
have maybe some difficultconversations.
So let's relax ourselves, let'sgo in the hot tub with a drink
you know what I mean and kind ofset the mood as we decide to
have these difficultconversations I would just take
the word difficult out there.
Terrance (27:39):
I'd say you know, with some things we probably should
discuss, you know what?
Sandy (27:42):
I mean, yeah, let's go in the hot tub with a drink.
Terrance (27:45):
I think, regardless of how long you've been together,
I think the simplest approach isyou know these things exist
right, or these things are goingto happen, or these things are
going to come about.
You start having conversationsabout okay well, how are we
going to do A if B happens?
I think it's important foreveryone to start having those
(28:09):
conversations as soon as youstart to get serious.
I mean, you don't want to meetsomebody you know the first day
and be like oh listen, so youknow I want to have a baby, so
we got to start planning thisout.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You know, I mean that may workfor some people, but some other
people you're probably going tosend them running out of the
room.
Sandy (28:27):
I'm 25 and I want to have a baby by the time I'm 28.
So what's your intentions here.
Terrance (28:32):
It's a woman thing.
When I say that's a woman thing, I mean that that's something
that I've heard women say, Notthat guys don't want that, but I
never hear a guy actually speakit.
Sandy (28:42):
Well, his guys can have kids, no matter what age they
are.
Women have the more medicalbehind it.
Terrance (28:52):
Well, no, and what I mean is I'm not saying that guys
don't have those same feelings.
They don't verbalize it again,that's.
I think that's one area wherewomen are more direct than some
guys.
Sandy (29:08):
Yeah well, I think it's honestly because of the
underlying knowledge of the body, mechanics of it all.
You know what I mean Nobody.
Terrance (29:14):
No, I get it.
The underlying body mechanics.
Sandy (29:17):
I don't know how else to kind of describe it but like you
know, women, we feel like we'reon a clock to some degree,
right Like hey, at some point werun out.
Terrance (29:29):
Yeah, and it's funny because that I feel in those
cases women are more direct.
But at the same time, I startthinking about okay, well,
research has shown that whenwomen communicate they're not as
direct because there's so manydifferent aspects of what
they're thinking when they'reactually having those
(29:50):
conversations.
Sandy (29:50):
Yeah, or you know it's funny because, yeah, you're
right, it could just be a type Apersonality that has their
whole life planned out.
Like okay, bob, I'm having akid and Bob 32, I'm doing this
and you know, some people havethat.
Terrance (30:04):
Were you like that?
No, and he said 32 of these.
I like how you did the thingwith your hands.
32, or is it?
Sandy (30:12):
No, but I did kind of have like a little mini corner
life crisis, I feel like at 25,but other than that, it's funny
because you know we will sithere and talk about how women
communicate, how men communicateverbally, non-verbally, and
again everybody is different.
(30:33):
Yeah, it's really not a womenand men thing, but I feel like
you're right.
It tends to be.
The majority that at leastwe've come in contact with tend
to fall under these categories.
But yeah, well you know, menare from Mars, women are from
Venus, Like there's a whole bookabout it.
Terrance (30:53):
Yeah, well, you know, as time goes on there, I think
communication is only going toget harder, because you know we
talk about verbal communication.
I think that's going to be aloss art eventually.
Sandy (31:06):
Oh yeah.
Terrance (31:07):
Because the way that so many people in the digital
age right now communicate a lotof it is through social media
apps or text, and the thing withthose things is you can't
always capture context in thosethings.
Sandy (31:21):
I realize that I come off very.
I don't even know what theright word is, but maybe hurtful
, but not.
Terrance (31:31):
I'm not trying to be In your text.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sandy (31:35):
I feel like, cause I don't know why, but I guess
because I'm very so, cause Iactually have the chance, I
guess, to think about the wordsthat I'm using and it's not what
would be in my naturalconversation that people take it
as harsher than it's reallyintended, as you know what I
(31:57):
mean.
Terrance (31:57):
Yeah, I don't have that issue, and I'll tell you
why.
I am a face to facecommunicator.
Sandy (32:04):
Yeah, same.
Terrance (32:04):
I don't use at work.
I seldom use the phone.
I seldom.
I have people who work for mewho are 20 feet away from me
that will send me a message inTeams, as opposed to come and
ask me a question or to give methat information.
Announcer (32:22):
Yeah.
Terrance (32:22):
Not me when they say it's funny, like someone will
reach out to me in Teams andI'll just lean over and start
yelling.
Hey, no, we don't wanna do that.
Sandy (32:32):
No, I'm more of a face to face person too, and so that's
when I think I try to take it.
If there's been a few occasions, I'll say I've taken it to
written word and it never endsup working out right.
Yeah, it never ends up workingout the way that it's intended,
and I feel like I always end uphurting somebody's feelings
(32:54):
again which is not intentional,and then I'm apologizing for
hurting their feelings, thatthat's not what was intended.
Terrance (33:00):
But they decoded it that way.
But they decoded it that way,when you go and you have a
conversation with someone andyou can look them in the eye and
you can see their facialexpressions, you get all those
cues because some of that stuffis it's non-verbal.
You're communicating verbally,but those non-verbal cues that
you pick up on is gonna give youan indication.
Sandy (33:18):
Yeah.
Terrance (33:19):
About how they're receiving what it is that you're
actually saying yeah.
As we wrap up, remember thatcommunication is a two-way
street.
It's not just about speaking.
It's about truly listening andunderstanding.
Each one of us brings our ownunique communication style to
the table, and it's our job tolearn and appreciate those
differences.
So, whether it's decipheringthe unspoken words conveyed
(33:41):
through body language, orfostering empathy and trust to
facilitate open dialogue, let'scommit to understanding each
other better.
Let's create spaces wherehonesty thrives, trust blossoms
and communication becomes abridge rather than a barrier.
Thank you for joining us on theLunch with Sandy podcast.
Please be sure to follow us andleave feedback on your favorite
(34:04):
podcasting app.
Until next time, stay well.
Announcer (34:09):
That's it for this week's episode of the Lunch with
Sandy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
We'd love to hear your feedbackand comments on Instagram,
tiktok and Twitter at Lunch withSandy, and be sure to follow us
on your favorite podcast app.
If you enjoyed the show, don'tforget to rate and review us.
Thanks again for listening tothe Lunch with Sandy podcast.
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best
policy?
How do you balance what youwant versus what you need, and
is there something you need tosay to your spouse but can't
find the right way to say it?
If so, then you're in the rightplace.
This is the Lunch with Sandypodcast.
With nearly 20 years ofmarriage under their belts,
Terrance and Sandy Jacksondiscuss a range of topics,
(00:22):
provide valuable insights onrelationships and talk about the
conversations married couplesneed to have.
So what does lunch have to dowith all of this?
Well, it's a metaphor for howthese conversations originally
started.
Speaking of conversations,let's get one going.
Here's your hosts, Terrance andSandy.
Terrance (00:43):
Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy
podcast, where we delve intovarious topics and offer
insights from the perspective ofa married couple I'm Terrance
and I'm Sandy and today we'regoing to be discussing the
hidden meaning behind some ofthe communication practices that
Sandy has.
But first, please be sure tofollow the Lunch with Sandy
(01:04):
podcast on your favorite podcastand app, and you can also
follow us on all social media atlunch with Sandy.
Speaking of Sandy, she's herewith me.
Sandy (01:15):
Present, present Goodness .
Terrance (01:19):
What's going on?
Sandy (01:20):
Uh, not much.
I don't know if our listenerscan tell our voices Well in our
voices, because we had a latenight last night and probably
shouting over music, I feel likeour voices both of us, are
really hoarse.
Terrance (01:39):
Listen, speak for yourself.
I am too.
Listen.
It was a.
It was a late night last night,but all in good fun.
Sandy (01:47):
Yes, Um, Aila's still upstairs sleeping, she's going
to have to get up soon, I know.
Terrance (01:53):
We got places to be Not going to be out as late as
it was last night.
Sandy (01:57):
Oh, definitely not.
I can't do two nights in a row.
Terrance (02:00):
Not like that, Not like that.
So, uh, we've had at nauseam anumber of conversations or
spoken about how effectivecommunication is essential for
any relationship, and it'simportant to remember that.
(02:21):
You know, typically in arelationship there are two forms
or two ways of communicating,and by that what I mean is
there's the verbal and thenthere's the nonverbal.
So it's important to be able tonot only understand you know,
the verbal cues, your partnermay be putting out, but you also
(02:42):
need to understand or learnthose nonverbal cues that
sometimes can put you in asituation that you need to
actually be aware of.
So let's tackle this basicallyfrom you know both those
(03:03):
perspectives, and we'll startwith you know the verbal what
does?
the Andy do.
Well, we're going to get intothat.
We ain't there yet, but we'regoing to get into that.
But you know, communication,when you're talking about it
from the verbal perspective,normally seems pretty
straightforward.
Well, let me rephrase that itis supposed to be
(03:25):
straightforward.
But you know, everyone hastheir own way of communicating
and everyone is different.
So sometimes what is said iswhat is not meant.
Sandy (03:37):
Those underlying.
Terrance (03:38):
Yeah, well, I mean intentions.
Sometimes I often wonder,particularly with Sandy, if she
knows what it is that she'strying to say.
Sandy (03:47):
But probably only like 45% of the time.
Terrance (03:52):
So I'm glad you said that, because my first question
to you was going to be this Doyou think you always say what
you mean?
Sandy (04:03):
You're taking way too long to answer that because I,
you know, I feel like it alsokind of depends on context, Like
the setting that we are in thecontext.
If I always say what I mean, Idon't even know what to do.
Terrance (04:23):
I don't mean so I guess I understand that I can
provide an example.
Go ahead.
Sandy (04:27):
That makes it easier.
So if we're talking right, likein, you need me to help you
make a decision, or whatever,like hey, I was thinking about
doing this or what do you thinkabout this?
Instead, and then I'll say like, oh, whatever you want, you
know what I mean.
I literally mean whatever youwant, Like it doesn't make a
(04:49):
difference to me.
But you know, if we'rediscussing and maybe not seeing
eye to eye on something and it'syou know.
I don't want to say arguing,because you know we don't argue
much, but well, actually I guesswe don't fight much, but we do
disagree.
That's a better term.
Terrance (05:08):
I'd have to agree to disagree.
Sandy (05:09):
Yeah.
So if we're just disagreeingand we're not seeing eye to eye
and I'm like whatever you want,like that's me giving up, you
know what I mean, so it's.
So I feel like context in thesituation is very key.
So, you know, in the secondsituation I'm saying whatever
(05:33):
you want, but to me it's not,it's I just give up.
It's really what my, myunderlying meaning is.
Terrance (05:41):
So the basis is sometimes you have to have your
secret decoder ring actuallydecode what actually is being
said you know, in a lot of caseswhere people say whatever you
want, they don't really meanwhatever you want.
Sandy (05:56):
It's one of those things where if someone says whatever
you want, they're just saying ehright, and so I feel like the
majority of the time when I saywhatever you want, I literally
mean sure, whatever you want.
But if it's a situation wherewe're not seeing eye to eye,
this is causing disagreement bywhatever you want.
So maybe that 5% means I giveup 5%.
Terrance (06:22):
I think that when we start talking about verbal
communication, men and women aredifferent in a lot of ways and,
again, everyone is different.
But I think from the maleperspective, or at least from me
, my communication is verydirect, and by that what I mean
is, if I say something, that'sexactly what I mean, right, and
I think that, particularly withyou, most of the time that's the
(06:46):
case.
Well, let me take a step backSome of the time.
That's the case, becausesometimes you say some things
and I don't even know if youknow what you mean when you say
it.
But there's also the aspect oflike, if I ask you something or
if I ask for your input onsomething, you do this thing
where I always interpret it andI know what the answer is.
If I ask you something and youdon't respond, then the answer
(07:09):
is no.
Sandy (07:10):
I take that as a no all the time, but that's not
accurate it might not beaccurate, but at the same time
we've had this conversation anumber of times and I told you
that when you don't respond tome, that's a response and I take
that as a no.
Right, and so I have clarifiedwith you that it does not mean
no, it means I'm working outthings in my own brain.
(07:31):
I haven't really come to adecision if I don't say anything
, but at the same time I havealso said I'll try to give you
some verbal communication.
Terrance (07:43):
Yes, you gotta start doing that, Because I know you
say it doesn't mean no, but atthe same time it continues to
happen and so in my defense, I'ma very internal person.
Sandy (07:54):
Like I talk to myself often, I'm always working things
out in my brain, I don't knowwhen.
I never really grew up talkingabout my feelings and talking
through things, so that outwardverbal communication is it
doesn't come easy to me.
Terrance (08:11):
I'm gonna help you with that.
I'm gonna help you with that.
Here's what you say.
I'll get back to you on that.
Sandy (08:17):
Yeah, there you go.
I know simple and sweet, rightI'll get back to you on that.
But to me it's like my brainjust starts automatically
thinking Do you know what I mean?
And then I just it's notintentional.
I honestly just forget to say,okay, I'll get back to you.
Terrance (08:36):
I think that there are some common phrases and I don't
know if it's because over time,so many people have used them,
and when I'm saying people rightnow I'm talking about women.
I think there's some commonphrases that when men hear women
say something, the meaningbehind what they say, the
meaning behind what they'resaying, isn't the same.
(08:57):
Like, for instance, if I askyou something and you say maybe,
maybe's no, maybe's no, orhere's the big one.
The big one is if I ask you iseverything okay?
And you say it's fine.
Sandy (09:19):
I think that's a specific one again for the context of
the situation.
Terrance (09:23):
Granted.
Context does play a role inthat, but for the most part I
would say the overall.
If you were to poll peopleoverall, men, overall, they
would say, oh, she says she'sfine, she ain't fine, she's
pissed, she's pissed that andRight, like am I avoiding you?
Sandy (09:44):
And then you come ask me is everything okay?
And I'm like I'm fine.
Yeah, that's probably does notmean I'm fine.
Terrance (09:52):
Yeah, context is important, and I think there's
one or two questions that womenask.
They ask the question but it'snot really the question that
they wanna ask, or it's justasking the question for some
form of confirmation, and it'salways this one and it's this
when we did the episode abouthonest communication.
(10:16):
Stop asking, guys.
Does this make me look fat?
Sandy (10:22):
So I don't ask that, but I do ask how do I look?
Terrance (10:27):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sandy (10:28):
And it could be in either way.
It could be like I'm indecisiveabout this outfit.
Terrance (10:32):
You're indecisive about a lot of things, but go
ahead.
Sandy (10:34):
So thanks, honey.
Or like fishing for acompliment?
Terrance (10:43):
And that's the other thing.
Sandy (10:44):
So one of the two you can .
Honestly you can just put, likeany Webster dictionary,
definition one, definition two.
So, okay, first, is it, sandyis indecisive, like let me maybe
ask some questions to get tothat answer?
Okay, no, she's not indecisive,she's just looking for a
compliment.
Terrance (11:02):
But here's the difference where we communicate.
Sandy, you look wonderful.
Yes, because you know me, I'mvery literal and I tell you all
the time you look fine, yougotta wear what you like, yeah.
Sandy (11:15):
But, yeah, I like to wear what I like on me, that you
like too, unfortunately for you,like I wouldn't have bought it
if I didn't like it, so hence,well, I don't that's again you
know, that's not.
Terrance (11:30):
That's a different episode.
Sandy (11:31):
That's not always the case.
Terrance (11:33):
I do think there are a lot of things that you buy just
because you might see it in amoment and you're not decisive
about it, and you decide toactually get it.
And then, once you have it, youhave it, and then when it comes
time to actually put it on,then that's when you're
indecisive and you gotta decidewhether or not you like it.
Sandy (11:49):
I've gotten a lot better at that.
That's why I really need toupgrade my closet wardrobe,
because I'm so bad at justshopping and I try not to just
buy stuff, just to buy itanymore.
Terrance (12:04):
Yeah, one last statement, or one last piece
when we start talking about theverbal communication and this is
not just for you, but I'm gonnaI'm gonna Attach it to you
because you do this a lot-Please.
Let me know, I just need 10minutes.
That's not true.
Sandy (12:25):
Oh, forgetting ready.
Terrance (12:26):
That's not true.
It's never 10 minutes.
Sandy (12:29):
I don't know.
Yesterday I did pretty good.
I said I'll be ready by thetime you get home, and what I
was.
Terrance (12:36):
Oh, you're talking about when I got back from the
Western.
I mean well you weren't readybecause Jack's hadn't taken the
dog out to use the bathroom.
Sandy (12:41):
I didn't realize he needed to go out.
Terrance (12:43):
Really you were leaving the house for.
Sandy (12:46):
I was in the shower.
We were gone for six hours.
I thought maybe you had alreadydid that.
Terrance (12:50):
No, because you sent me to go pick up the food, but
before that, what you could haveasked?
I didn't, you didn'tcommunicate, I didn't.
Sandy (12:58):
Neither did you.
You could have texted me like,hey, while I'm gone, take Jack's
out.
See, it goes both ways.
Terrance (13:04):
It doesn't go both ways, because you know what.
You have a dog, just like Ihave a dog, and you're leaving
the house you should be, youknow what.
Let me just take him out.
Even if I took him out, let mejust take him out.
So he goes to the bathroom.
Sandy (13:17):
Okay, whatever you want.
Terrance (13:18):
There you go, there you go.
Sandy (13:21):
But you know, the maybe, I feel like the maybe.
I don't use the maybe on you, Iuse the maybe on the kids.
Yeah, no, but they were growingup all the time and that was
because it didn't mean no, it'sbecause I'm not going to answer
this question without daddy.
Terrance (13:36):
Again.
Now let's talk about using thedecoder ring.
So, rather than maybe you knowwhat, I have to have a
conversation with someone, solet me get back to you.
Sandy (13:48):
Which is funny because that's I have gotten more into
the habit of doing that withAyla.
She asked me a question lastnight.
For the life of me I can't evenremember what it was and I said
that's a.
Oh, I remember what it is now,but anyhow, I was like that's a
question to ask to daddy and Itogether.
So it wasn't a.
Maybe it was.
(14:08):
Bring it up one word together.
Terrance (14:13):
And that's how it should be.
So I mentioned earlier thatthere are two ways we
communicate, and we talked alittle bit about the verbal
communication.
So I want to hit on thenonverbal aspect for a minute.
But just like the verbal cues,nonverbal cues well, actually
(14:33):
even more so than the verbalcues nonverbal cues have to be
decoded.
There are some that are prettystraightforward when you talk
about okay, well, this person isdoing that.
Sandy (14:48):
You know and you know what they mean.
I'm pretty sure I know mine,yeah.
Terrance (14:50):
Well, wait, listen.
So what are some nonverbal cuesthat you've regularly used?
Sandy (14:57):
So again, it's like context is everything and the
conversation.
I feel like so if we're havinga conversation right and it's
not like you just asked me aquestion and I go silent because
you know my brain is trying tolike work itself out, if we're
either disagreeing something orwe're trying to like work
(15:19):
through something and I gosilent, then that probably just
means like I need to step awayfrom this conversation.
And if I do go silent and walkaway, that means I really need
to get out of this conversation.
The walking away means like Ineed 10 minutes, but not those
(15:41):
kind of 10 minutes to get ready,and it's not 10 minutes.
It depends.
Terrance (15:47):
It's normally a lot more than 10 minutes.
Yeah, so you know me.
I just stopped talking.
I don't walk away.
Yeah, Non-communicate.
Sandy (15:57):
You just get the one word answers.
Terrance (16:00):
Yep very minimal conversation.
Sandy (16:03):
What do you want for dinner?
I don't care.
Terrance (16:05):
No, it's chicken.
Sandy (16:07):
The answer to that is always chicken.
Terrance (16:09):
There are some things that you know.
There's some straightforward,non-verbal communications that
are easy to pick up, Like ifyou're sitting here with your
arms crossed and you got a screwface on.
Sandy (16:19):
So my arms crossed do not mean anything, but I'm cold.
Terrance (16:23):
But there was an added piece to that.
I said you had a screw face on.
It means your face is mad.
You know angry face.
Sandy (16:31):
Yeah, but I feel like sometimes you think I have a
screw face on and it's.
Terrance (16:34):
I'm just in my own head again Fix your face, I'll
fix my face.
No, listen.
Sandy (16:39):
You all heard it in here first Fix your face.
Terrance (16:42):
Listen, I know when you're in your head, because you
do this thing with your lips.
When you're in your head, whenyou're thinking, you do.
That's part of your non-verbalcommunication.
When you do this you think it.
Sandy (16:55):
Well, that's good to know that I do that.
Terrance (16:57):
You do it all the time .
Sandy (16:59):
Aila says I just start staring and she thinks I'm
staring at her.
Terrance (17:02):
Yeah, because you do.
You'll be looking directly ather.
Sandy (17:04):
But I'm not, I'm like, but I am not looking.
But it's funny because I'm notseeing her, like I'm not
actually looking at her, my mindhas kind of gone elsewhere.
I'm just like thinking, and I'mjust, my eyes are looking in
one direction, but I don't seeanything that's actually in
front of me.
Terrance (17:24):
Yeah, there's some non-verbal stuff that you do.
That's not easy to actuallydecode but, like I said, the
staring.
I don't know what you're doingIf I'm staring at you.
Sandy (17:36):
It's because I'm not staring at you.
Terrance (17:38):
But there's some typical ones, and this is not
necessarily you, but when peopleavoid others, like I said,
facial expressions you can tella lot from the facial
expressions, body language,things like that and I think it
comes down to you have to knowwho it is you're in a
relationship with.
You got to learn those thingsfrom those from your partners,
(17:59):
and that happens over time.
But you got to learn thembecause if you don't, you end up
putting yourself in a situationwhere you can be in a whole lot
of hot water.
Sandy (18:11):
Without even knowing.
Terrance (18:12):
Yeah yeah, like I said , it takes time for you to
actually come to learn thosethings.
So the question becomes how doyou get to that point?
How do you get to a point whereyou've come to know what it is
that your partner's trying torelay, when they ain't saying?
Sandy (18:37):
I feel like practice makes perfect.
I think over time, you just ifyou're paying attention to your
partner, you are going toautomatically learn some of
those things.
Terrance (18:50):
Yeah, we've talked about this before, but I think
it's important to be open andhonest when communicating.
Yeah, because you may look ator you may take a non-verbal cue
or something that someone, yourpartner, says and completely
(19:13):
misinterpret it and that can bean issue.
But if you have that open andhonest communication, you can
have a conversation about it.
And then, when you have theconversation about it, then you
can get to the root of the issueif there is one or understand
that this is just me.
Sandy (19:31):
And I think the other thing is don't assume that your
partner has picked up on thoseLike.
I can't believe he doesn'trealize how upset I am or
something.
I think that's something thatwe've worked on too, where if I
do walk away or whatnot, I'llyou know once I calm down and my
(19:52):
emotion is out of it.
You know, because I feel likethat when you try to talk
through things in emotion andstill in it, that sometimes
it'll just precipitate anotherargument.
But I'll be like you reallyupset me when you said blank,
yeah, you know, you gotta sayhuh what, I didn't say that.
Terrance (20:14):
No, I think it's important too, you know.
Just based off that, you gottabe empathetic to each other.
You gotta be able to putyourself in each other's shoes,
and that way you can understandwhat that person may or may not
be feeling at that particulartime.
Sandy (20:30):
Yeah, and how really important is it?
I feel like now, as years havepassed, I look back and I'm like
you know what?
It's not even important anymore.
Terrance (20:41):
Yes, you're talking about communication, learning
communication ain't important,no, not communication, but like
something that we might bedisagreeing on or whatnot.
Sandy (20:49):
It's like, you know, in the whole scheme of things, is
it really that important?
And I'm thinking like no, it'snot, like we spent you know time
disagreeing about I don't knowX.
I can't really think ofanything specific at this moment
in time but it's like wow, atthe end of the day, it's just.
(21:09):
It's like as long as you'reinvested in each other, it ends
up all working out anyways.
Terrance (21:15):
Yeah, I think all I think, based on what I said
earlier too with you know,having that open and an honest
communication, part of the waythat you get there is building
trust with each other.
So you have that openness andonce you have that trust too,
you know, when you start talkingabout different situations, if
you trust that your partnerwouldn't intentionally put you
(21:39):
in a situation where you feelwhatever way that it is that you
actually feel, then you havethat to lean back or to pull
back and say, hey, listen, maybeI need to look at this from a
different perspective.
Maybe I need to have aconversation.
Maybe I might be in my own headand I need to take 10 minutes
which is normally not 10 minutesto go work that out and then
(22:01):
come back and see what thesituation really is.
Sandy (22:04):
Yeah, no, I agree because I feel like maybe in the past I
would take certain commentarylike you're purposely trying to
hurt my feelings and I've cometo recognize that that's not the
intention, because I do trustyou and I know that you're not
purposely trying to hurt myfeelings Like this chicken
tastes horrible.
Terrance (22:23):
And that's just me being honest, that's just
because to you.
Sandy (22:26):
The chicken tastes horrible, like it's not anything
to do with.
You know my skills as a cook.
Something happened with thatchicken today that it just did
not come out right.
Yeah yeah.
Terrance (22:41):
Listen and so my from me again.
When it comes to communicating,I'm very direct, and if the
chicken tastes horrible, I feelit's part of my duty to let you
know.
Hey, listen, this chicken,though, tastes good, this
chicken is horrible.
Sandy (22:57):
Yeah, I know and it's you know.
It's just like anything elseand I know we've talked about it
in a past episode, but you kindof bring that baggage with you
from prior situations andsometimes it just takes the time
to know that you know to trustthe person and know that you're
(23:20):
that.
Yeah, it's just you beingdirect and you're not trying to
be hurtful.
Terrance (23:23):
Yeah, and I think at the same time, too, I think you
have to be able to listen andobserve your partner, because
sometimes things are gonna besaid that aren't said.
Sandy (23:33):
Yeah, well, it's like if I saved over that they're still
for two hours and then you'lllike the chicken is horrible.
Like, at least appreciate thetime that I spent freaking,
making the damn chicken.
Listen.
Terrance (23:44):
I appreciate the time you put into the chicken, but
this shit is horrible.
Sandy (23:49):
Yeah, exactly, perfect yeah.
Terrance (23:51):
And you know, the thing about it is you know, I
always again, it's not alwayssaid, but I always appreciate
the effort that you put in.
But at the same time, I thinkit's important to you know, be
mindful of the fact that, eventhough, when you're
communicating directly, noteveryone also communicates that
way.
So when you do that, you canhave a negative impact on the
(24:13):
person who you're communicatingwith.
True, that's not that I don'tappreciate you making the nasty
chicken, it's just nasty.
Sandy (24:22):
And I feel like I've learned through my life who
those people are that are justdirect, yeah, and they're not
trying to intentionally hurtsomebody's feelings, they're
just calling it like it is yeah,yeah to when you're in a
relationship to make sure or toget to where you're trying to go
(24:46):
together.
Terrance (24:48):
Communication is very, very important.
I think that there are certainthings that you should have a
strategy or a plan for whenyou're talking about how you're
gonna communicate.
Sandy (24:59):
Right.
Terrance (25:00):
Because you get involved with someone and now
you see this plan at, or thispath that lays out in front of
you.
Right, okay, maybe you plan ongetting married or being
lifelong partners, or howeveryou wanna call it.
Finances are gonna come intothe picture.
Now you start talking aboutmoney, things can get a little
(25:22):
iffy.
So how are you gonnacommunicate with each other when
you start talking about thefinances you may want to have or
you may wanna build a family?
You gotta have thatcommunication and it has to be
clear, because if one personwants kids and the other person
doesn't want kids and they don'tknow how to effectively
communicate, that you might begoing down a path where you
(25:44):
think someone may be on the samepage with you and they may not
be.
Sandy (25:50):
Yeah.
Terrance (25:51):
The other.
You know there's just a wholebunch of other stuff that comes
along with.
Okay, well, move in together.
So if you can have a plan forhow you're going to communicate
when you start talking aboutthose things and I think the
first part of that plan isactually talking about those
things- yeah, so I think, firstof all, you don't start the
(26:14):
conversation, as we need to talk.
Oh yeah, that's the other thingyou know what and the thing
with that is too.
Sandy (26:21):
Do not so, cause that's just gonna automatically, like
you know, you'll stir upinstantaneously Everybody's
defensive.
Terrance (26:29):
It's so funny that you said that because you know.
Going back to verbal, you knowthe verbal aspect.
There's a different meaningbehind when you say we need to
talk, everyone knows what thatmeans.
When you say we need to talk,all right, that's it.
Something's over.
Sandy (26:40):
Right, like all right, this is gonna be right or this
is gonna be an argument already.
Terrance (26:45):
Yeah.
Sandy (26:47):
You know.
Hence, yeah, walls are up,defenses are up, like there's
really no, there's gonna benothing good that, I feel like,
is gonna come out of thatconversation if you start with
that tagline.
Terrance (27:00):
Yep, Shanty, remove that phrase from your vocabulary
.
Sandy (27:04):
Well.
So and this is where I find itdifficult, and it would be nice
to have the perspective of moreof a newer couple, cause I feel
like we've been together so longlike I don't even remember how
we initiated those conversationslike how do you do that today,
zane?
I'm not sure, but I think it'slike, like you said, kind of
just communicating and almostlike preparing.
Like you know, I think we needto start, I think we need to
(27:25):
have maybe some difficultconversations.
So let's relax ourselves, let'sgo in the hot tub with a drink
you know what I mean and kind ofset the mood as we decide to
have these difficultconversations I would just take
the word difficult out there.
Terrance (27:39):
I'd say you know, with some things we probably should
discuss, you know what?
Sandy (27:42):
I mean, yeah, let's go in the hot tub with a drink.
Terrance (27:45):
I think, regardless of how long you've been together,
I think the simplest approach isyou know these things exist
right, or these things are goingto happen, or these things are
going to come about.
You start having conversationsabout okay well, how are we
going to do A if B happens?
I think it's important foreveryone to start having those
(28:09):
conversations as soon as youstart to get serious.
I mean, you don't want to meetsomebody you know the first day
and be like oh listen, so youknow I want to have a baby, so
we got to start planning thisout.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You know, I mean that may workfor some people, but some other
people you're probably going tosend them running out of the
room.
Sandy (28:27):
I'm 25 and I want to have a baby by the time I'm 28.
So what's your intentions here.
Terrance (28:32):
It's a woman thing.
When I say that's a woman thing, I mean that that's something
that I've heard women say, Notthat guys don't want that, but I
never hear a guy actually speakit.
Sandy (28:42):
Well, his guys can have kids, no matter what age they
are.
Women have the more medicalbehind it.
Terrance (28:52):
Well, no, and what I mean is I'm not saying that guys
don't have those same feelings.
They don't verbalize it again,that's.
I think that's one area wherewomen are more direct than some
guys.
Sandy (29:08):
Yeah well, I think it's honestly because of the
underlying knowledge of the body, mechanics of it all.
You know what I mean Nobody.
Terrance (29:14):
No, I get it.
The underlying body mechanics.
Sandy (29:17):
I don't know how else to kind of describe it but like you
know, women, we feel like we'reon a clock to some degree,
right Like hey, at some point werun out.
Terrance (29:29):
Yeah, and it's funny because that I feel in those
cases women are more direct.
But at the same time, I startthinking about okay, well,
research has shown that whenwomen communicate they're not as
direct because there's so manydifferent aspects of what
they're thinking when they'reactually having those
(29:50):
conversations.
Sandy (29:50):
Yeah, or you know it's funny because, yeah, you're
right, it could just be a type Apersonality that has their
whole life planned out.
Like okay, bob, I'm having akid and Bob 32, I'm doing this
and you know, some people havethat.
Terrance (30:04):
Were you like that?
No, and he said 32 of these.
I like how you did the thingwith your hands.
32, or is it?
Sandy (30:12):
No, but I did kind of have like a little mini corner
life crisis, I feel like at 25,but other than that, it's funny
because you know we will sithere and talk about how women
communicate, how men communicateverbally, non-verbally, and
again everybody is different.
(30:33):
Yeah, it's really not a womenand men thing, but I feel like
you're right.
It tends to be.
The majority that at leastwe've come in contact with tend
to fall under these categories.
But yeah, well you know, menare from Mars, women are from
Venus, Like there's a whole bookabout it.
Terrance (30:53):
Yeah, well, you know, as time goes on there, I think
communication is only going toget harder, because you know we
talk about verbal communication.
I think that's going to be aloss art eventually.
Sandy (31:06):
Oh yeah.
Terrance (31:07):
Because the way that so many people in the digital
age right now communicate a lotof it is through social media
apps or text, and the thing withthose things is you can't
always capture context in thosethings.
Sandy (31:21):
I realize that I come off very.
I don't even know what theright word is, but maybe hurtful
, but not.
Terrance (31:31):
I'm not trying to be In your text.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sandy (31:35):
I feel like, cause I don't know why, but I guess
because I'm very so, cause Iactually have the chance, I
guess, to think about the wordsthat I'm using and it's not what
would be in my naturalconversation that people take it
as harsher than it's reallyintended, as you know what I
(31:57):
mean.
Terrance (31:57):
Yeah, I don't have that issue, and I'll tell you
why.
I am a face to facecommunicator.
Sandy (32:04):
Yeah, same.
Terrance (32:04):
I don't use at work.
I seldom use the phone.
I seldom.
I have people who work for mewho are 20 feet away from me
that will send me a message inTeams, as opposed to come and
ask me a question or to give methat information.
Announcer (32:22):
Yeah.
Terrance (32:22):
Not me when they say it's funny, like someone will
reach out to me in Teams andI'll just lean over and start
yelling.
Hey, no, we don't wanna do that.
Sandy (32:32):
No, I'm more of a face to face person too, and so that's
when I think I try to take it.
If there's been a few occasions, I'll say I've taken it to
written word and it never endsup working out right.
Yeah, it never ends up workingout the way that it's intended,
and I feel like I always end uphurting somebody's feelings
(32:54):
again which is not intentional,and then I'm apologizing for
hurting their feelings, thatthat's not what was intended.
Terrance (33:00):
But they decoded it that way.
But they decoded it that way,when you go and you have a
conversation with someone andyou can look them in the eye and
you can see their facialexpressions, you get all those
cues because some of that stuffis it's non-verbal.
You're communicating verbally,but those non-verbal cues that
you pick up on is gonna give youan indication.
Sandy (33:18):
Yeah.
Terrance (33:19):
About how they're receiving what it is that you're
actually saying yeah.
As we wrap up, remember thatcommunication is a two-way
street.
It's not just about speaking.
It's about truly listening andunderstanding.
Each one of us brings our ownunique communication style to
the table, and it's our job tolearn and appreciate those
differences.
So, whether it's decipheringthe unspoken words conveyed
(33:41):
through body language, orfostering empathy and trust to
facilitate open dialogue, let'scommit to understanding each
other better.
Let's create spaces wherehonesty thrives, trust blossoms
and communication becomes abridge rather than a barrier.
Thank you for joining us on theLunch with Sandy podcast.
Please be sure to follow us andleave feedback on your favorite
(34:04):
podcasting app.
Until next time, stay well.
Announcer (34:09):
That's it for this week's episode of the Lunch with
Sandy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
We'd love to hear your feedbackand comments on Instagram,
tiktok and Twitter at Lunch withSandy, and be sure to follow us
on your favorite podcast app.
If you enjoyed the show, don'tforget to rate and review us.
Thanks again for listening tothe Lunch with Sandy podcast.
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