Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to MA Murders and Accusations, the
good, the bad, and the ugly ofselling your business.
We dig into what you need toknow and how not to kill the
sell of your business.
Now here's our host, Rick J.
Krebs, Mergers and AcquisitionsAdvisor.
SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the show.
I was recently asked to be aguest on my friend's podcast.
My friend's name is ScottSnyder.
He's the president of the ExitPlanning Institute and leading
the nationwide charge for exitplanning.
So enjoy, and we're going totalk about collaboration.
We're going to talk about whatwe do, and of course, exit
(00:46):
planning.
Thanks for tuning in.
But when they brought it up, thewalls were down, and that it was
no longer a must run away fromhim.
They truly wanted to know what Iwanted to know.
Once they knew that I caredabout them, then they cared
about me and they're willing toaccept it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Hey everybody, and welcome to the Exit is Now
podcast with me, your host,Scott Snyder.
We're on a special series hereover the next two or three
episodes as we are broadcastingfrom EPI's headquarters during
our EPI Partner Summit.
What our EPI Partner Summit is,is a place where uh VIPs like
our chapter presidents, ourfaculty, our sponsors, and our
(01:30):
partners that all help build andcontribute to the EPI community
come together once a year herein Cleveland, Ohio at EPIHQ to
really uh drive, I think,clarity, alignment, and vision.
And one of our guests, who Ithink you all know certainly in
the EPI community very well, isnone other than my buddy Rick,
uh, who is a the owner of acompany, My Biz Value, I think a
(01:53):
very recognizable name, walkingthrough our partner and exhibit
hall each year.
But also uh two other, I think,claims to fame for him inside of
the EPI community.
Number one, he is the chapterpresident of our Utah chapter,
and then beyond that, he uh thisyear at our exit planning summit
won a member of the year.
And so I asked him on theobviously he's here, he's in
(02:15):
here in town as a communitypartner for us, but I really
want to dive into uh the best inclass SEPA element that is
around connection andcollaboration, and that's really
what makes up the the member ofthe year each year.
So with that, Rick, welcome uhto the show.
And and and maybe I would saytoo, if you follow us on
LinkedIn, this is the guy thattook me snowmobiling in January
(02:38):
or la laughing off air.
I see Rick had asked me whilewe're sitting on top of this
massive mountain in Utah, haveyou ever been snowmobiling
before?
And I said, Yeah, throughcornfields in Ohio, but nothing
like this.
So nonetheless, welcome toCleveland and and and welcome to
the show.
Thank you, Scott.
I appreciate it.
So as a partner, uh for thosethat are perhaps unfamiliar, can
you just talk to us first aboutthe the business that you've
(03:01):
started and owned and andperhaps how it's how in
collaboration you're workingwith with CEPAs from around the
community?
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
So I started the business.
I I sell businesses, that's mymain business.
And and um about ten years ago,I had a client approach me about
getting a business valuation.
And uh I would send them out tosomeone that had a certified
value and uh C VA, and they keptcoming back or like ping pong
balls got they were like and I'dsend them out and they're like
(03:29):
Rick, it's it's you know, it'sten grand, and I just need a
number.
And so finally one client he hadan insurance business and he
twisted my arm and said, Hey,please just pull some
comparables, give me a number,and I said, Okay.
I quoted him a number, I did it,and uh he loved it.
And then he uh came back and andI was doing some work for his
buddies, you know, and it justkind of blossomed from there.
(03:50):
And I saw this niche or thisneed in the market, and we
created this um based on on whatthe clients wanted, and they
wanted an affordable valuationthat they could make an informed
decision that didn't break thepiggy bank, that just gave them
a solid number.
And as you know, with thetriggering event, that's what
it's all about.
You know, when we're calculatingthe wealth gap, we gotta know
(04:12):
what the business is worth, andwe gotta have something we can
rely on.
That's usually the biggest holein the financial plan.
They're like, what's yourbusiness worth?
Oh, I don't know, four millionbucks, whatever.
And so now I work with advisorsand collaborate with them,
advisors all over the country atthat triggering event in the in
the initial stage when they'rejust getting started, because
(04:33):
they don't they don't want tospend 10 grand or 15 or more.
They want to spend a smalldollar amount and make a small
investment to get a number.
SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
Well, and I would say to get started, right?
I think that the the triggeringevent inside of the discover
gate of the methodology is iscalled such because it triggers
the action of the owner.
It's a starting point, it is theidentification of what we have
and what we could have.
And so, yeah, I think that weneed a number so we could start
moving, right?
And so we might investigate thatnumber in a deeper way as we
(05:02):
build, but nevertheless, yeah,just starting out is for you
have to have a starting point.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Yep.
And what we do is we are about,and you've said this many times,
it's uh it's about a number.
But I try and do some brainsurgery as well, and that is to
change their thinking fromincome generation to value
creation.
Absolutely.
And that's why we do a phonecall with them.
Once it's done, we set up ameeting with the advisor,
myself, and the client will gothrough.
(05:29):
We do a phone call with theclient, and they leave with a
number, and they also leave witha with a path and a design on
what they need to do next.
And I think that's the biggestvalue that we bring.
That's how we collaborate withthe advisors because you know
then they're like, okay, is itan internal sale?
Okay, what do I need to do?
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
What are the next steps forthat?
(05:50):
If it's is it an ESOP?
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
What does that look like?
Uh an exit, you know, an intraexternal, whatever it is, we
collaborate with them and bringthat advisor in.
Sometimes the advisors want tobe the quarterback, sometimes
they need me to be thequarterback.
And so that clearly definesroles and that path forward.
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
So let's uh focus uh focus in on that that
collaboration.
We've kind of talked about ithere in the opening moments of
the show.
And when we look at uh not onlyjust the certified exit planning
advisor, Rick, but if we lookedat what truly makes the most
trusted and valued advisor, itbecomes about a relationship
with an owner, not necessarilyjust a transaction.
(06:30):
And when you study the advisorslike you that are really good at
it, there are three elementsthat make up these most valuable
and trusted advisors that arehave deep relationships with
business owners.
The first is they have thisability to change their language
and approach with owners, toembrace what you just said, not
an income generation mindset,but they deliver a value
(06:50):
creation mindset to the owner.
Uh the next thing that they haveis they are typically lifelong
learners, right?
They believe in professionalgrowth, they believe in
purposeful growth, a core valuethat frankly hangs behind us on
the on the EPI core value, uhcore value wall, but they are
lifelong learners as themethodology evolves.
We all kind of evolve along withit as more and more owners come
(07:13):
into uh come into the community.
And the one that really isfocused on member of the year is
really around connection andcollaboration.
And uh and and I think it's oneof the three that you do really,
really well.
I was always impressed thatsnowmobiling trip actually
stemmed from you inviting me outto to Salt Lake City to speak at
(07:35):
your chapter to kind of kick offthe year.
And uh I was I had multipleshock moments, if I'm if I'm
being honest, that were reallyimpactful.
You sat me down uh withbreakfast with your leadership
team, and I can remember on theway to the meeting, I took on my
phone and I texted my team and Isaid that was probably one of
the most collaborative and andand and maybe brought together
(07:58):
leadership teams I think I'veI've might have had breakfast
with.
And then I got to your meeting,and the meeting had a sense of
energy and and fire to it, whereyou could just tell people
weren't just coming to learn,people were coming to also see
each other, meet, greet, andfrankly try to do some more
business together.
And so that community that youhave built in Utah has been, I
(08:21):
think, quite significant.
So I'd like to focus the show alittle bit around for our
audiences.
How did you do that?
What makes you this connectorand collaborator of people?
And maybe let's start with theleadership team.
So when you look at a leadershipteam, which I think Rick is a is
a nice example of what a uh coreexit planning advisory team
(08:41):
could even be like for an owner,how do you choose those type of
advisors and how do you lead ateam like that along the way?
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
So, Scott, one of the first things that that
happened is I was thinking aboutstarting the chapter.
My initial inclination was let'slock all the other business
brokers out.
I don't want to be the otherone.
I want a monopoly here, justbreak.
I got it.
I'm here, right?
Let's let's shut the door.
And and I'm like, Rick, I kindof beat myself up, like, Rick,
(09:11):
this is stupid, right?
Don't have this mentality ofscarcity.
Exactly.
Have an abundance mentality.
And so not only was I notlocking them out, I was reaching
out and inviting other businessbrokers to be part of this.
And I and what happens, and I Isaid this many times, it's like
when you raise the level of thesea, all boats rise.
(09:33):
Exactly right.
And so, as a collaborator and aneducator, I'm like, we're gonna
make each of us better.
We're gonna make all of thepeople that are here better,
more educated, they can speakthe language, the value
acceleration methodology, theseep is in the room, they know
what to say.
And we're not competitorsbecause this this silver
tsunami, this this$14 trillionthat's coming our way, it's not
(09:57):
a matter of how do we slice thepie.
It's like how do we buildfunnels large enough to handle
this business that's gonna comeour way because it's gonna just
it's gonna mull us over.
And we need good people, notjust two or three.
We need dozens and dozens ofpeople, right, that are gonna
handle it.
Or the business owners are gonnasuffer.
And it and it's all about thebusiness owners, truly.
(10:17):
As we get better, they getbetter, and they have better
exits, and it's just good forthe community.
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
I think going along those lines too, right?
Going beyond the silver tsunamiand and maybe into the next
generations as well, one thingthat we opened up this year with
at our partner summit was aconversation around what does
the EPI and the EPI communityand the exit planning profession
look like in in three to fiveyears.
And I think that beyond the babyboomer business owners exiting,
(10:43):
you have this unique millennialcrowd that might exit multiple
times throughout their uhthroughout their career or out
their business owner journey.
So to your point, a scarcitymindset does not make for
collaboration because if you ifyou have the scarcity mindset,
you're shutting the door.
Instead of shutting the door,you're actually welcoming your
competitors in because frankly,I also think we all grow
together, even with thecompetitors in the room.
(11:05):
We do.
If you could take, you know, ifyou could take two back, you
know if you could take two SuperBowl-winning teams, you're not
two different teams, but you putthem collectively together, I'm
sure they're bringing differentelements to the table, and
you're like, ooh, I like that.
Maybe I can maybe I can use someof that.
And then the other guy in theroom that's doing what you uh
you that you have done, you'resaying, man, I really like the
way uh Rick approaches that.
(11:25):
Maybe I'll take a little bit ofthat in.
And so to your point, alladvisors are better.
And I think that's what we'reafter, right?
That's truly the impact ofhelping companies become more
significant.
It's not just about one, it'sabout many.
So community.
Yeah, it's about community,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
It's about the whole community.
And uh and like my leadershipteam, yeah.
I developed uh what I did, and Iought to weigh, I I'm a skinny
guy, I ought to weigh 400 poundswith as many people as I can.
SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
How many breakfast meetings you go out to?
SPEAKER_02 (11:50):
Oh, uh hundreds of meetings and lunches.
And and I was like, I felt likeI was the Pied Piper of exit
planning in Utah because nobodyelse was talking about it.
And I'm like, I got to get somepeople excited.
So I went around and I got onLinkedIn and I just found
strangers.
People that I'm like, I need anMA attorney.
Well, let me find one.
You know, I need so-and-so.
(12:11):
And and I just started takingthem to lunch and saying, hey,
I'm doing this, and I'mwondering if you want to be a
part of it.
And and what I found was peoplegot excited.
And they were like, Yeah, I'llbe a part of it.
So we assembled a leadershipteam who had the same core
values of collaboration, abouteducation, and about raising the
level of the sea so all boatscould rise.
(12:32):
And and when I surrounded myselfwith that team, that became the
core and I think the foundationfrom which the rest of the
chapter just flourished.
SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
And there's a couple of key things to pull out there
for the o uh for the audience.
One, uh literally just beingable to go on a platform like
LinkedIn, look for folks thatare local, and simply reach out
and have a meeting, right?
A collaborative session.
Two, once he had the rightpeople in the room, we said
collectively, what are the corevalues of this leadership team
and let that let that kind oflead us down the path of
(13:04):
inviting more uh into ourmeeting.
And I think those two key thingsare possible are are are
important for others that arelooking to connect and
collaborate, or frankly, startand and run a great chapter.
I think it it truly starts witha great leadership team.
And for me, again, when I wassitting at that breakfast the
morning before the morning ofour meeting, uh it was like a
(13:25):
hundred percent participationtoo.
So you clearly have peoplebought into the overall purpose,
mission, and vision of what youcollectively uh are trying to
build.
So that's gotta be doingsomething right, right?
It's when you could lead peoplethat way, I think it's it's
super impressive.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe chapter though as a whole,
right?
So there's another one of thereasons I wanted to come out and
(13:46):
see you is there's this likebreak down the wall moment, if
you will, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
And there's a typical meeting spaces.
SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
I'm sure people certainly have been in them.
They have airwalls, right, thatsplit the room into you know two
halves or you know, thirds orwhatever, quarters, whatever it
might be.
And Rick, talk about LinkedIntoo.
Rick goes online and videotapeshim taking down the wall.
And it was a proud moment forsomebody that you know has
poured a lot of resources intobuilding a successful chapter
(14:13):
when you have to take down thewall to expand it because so
many people are wanting to comeout and collaborate.
So, how did you get to thatbreak down the wall moment,
though?
Uh, because you started fromlike, you know, you start from
the ground up, right?
You might get a 120 people atyour first meeting as you
launch, you drop down to like 20or 30, and you start to build
back up from a core group to 50,60, 70, and one, and whatever
(14:36):
that might be.
Can you talk how do you get tobring together so many different
types of people from the greaterSalt Lake community?
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
So, first of all, it didn't start that way.
Right.
When I started the chapter, I inthe back of my mind, and here
I'm just revealing all of my allof my insecurities and
everything, but in the back ofmy mind, I'm like, well, worst
case, I got a couple of buddies,so there'll be three people
there.
Right.
So more of a round table.
Yeah, more of a round table, allthese chairs.
(15:05):
But um, what I found was exitplanning has been on the mind of
a lot of people, and they'relooking to hitch their wagon to
the right ship or to the rightthe organization.
And so when I started to bringit up, it made sense.
And exit planning makes goodbusiness sense regardless of
whether you're gonna exit ornot.
(15:26):
And so these advisors, what Isaid resonated, and I just I
just repeated what they taughtme in the SEPA training.
It's nothing new, right?
Right.
But it it resonated, and people,I I just repeated it, and people
started to they were attractedto it because I followed that um
value acceleration methodologymodel, and I followed what I'd
(15:48):
learned in my SEPA training andrepeated it, and they're like,
yes, it resonates with me.
I want to be part of it.
And we have a couple of thingsin our chapter.
We're not commercial, we don'tallow people to come in and and
to peddle their wares orwhatever.
We are strictly educational andcollaborative, and we have a
no-poaching role.
(16:09):
So when a when an advisor bringsa client in, you know, that
client doesn't feel like freshmeat in front of everyone else.
So I think I think we created aforum that was safe and a forum
that that provided valuableeducation that people are
already searching for, and itjust naturally flourished.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Talk to me about the unique education that you're
doing.
If you go on Rick's LinkedIn,they had like a almost they
conduct I I would describe it asthey they conducted a uh a
formal education session, but asyou are going to like a play,
the playhouse, right?
Like here in Cleveland, you havePlayhouse Square, you're like
watching it unfold by seeing astory unfold.
(16:51):
Talk to us about some of theunique things that you've put in
there to attract and and andretain uh great people come to
meetings.
So these are funny.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
So there's two things that I've done.
I um I business owners are likeCinderella at their first ball.
And I tell this story over andover, and I'm like, you're
Cinderella, you're your firstball, and what do you do?
You fall in love with the firsthandsome prince that comes your
way.
You know, you get an unsolicitedLOI, and ah, I'm in love.
Oh, somebody thinks I'm pretty.
(17:22):
You know, oh, like we jokedabout it, and I wrote a script.
I wrote a mini play.
I actually put on a dress, ablue dress, and a wig.
Cinderella.
Yeah, Cinderella, right?
I was Cinderella, and I wasugly, but I thought I was
pretty.
And I had a there's more to thatstory.
You had a wig on and everything.
I had a wig on, and I I hadanother chapter member.
He he was handsome prince and hehad the jacket.
(17:43):
But you know, we threw in thingslike I don't need to sign an
NDA.
We have a new thing, a new form.
It's called a friend DA.
You don't even have to sign it.
You just trust me.
You just give me all your taxes,you know.
And we just we made fun of theprocess.
Yes.
But in making fun of it andourselves, we're able to educate
business owners in a meaningfulway.
And they're like, ah,Cinderella, I get it.
(18:05):
You know, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:06):
And keep them engaged, I would assume too,
right?
As somebody that has to producea bunch of education classes and
typically in kind of form orlecture form, uh storytelling, I
think, becomes a big part ofthat, right?
To kind of bring it back, uhmake it real, uh, see it
applied, and keep it fun.
And you did that in your mostrecent chapter meeting as well,
(18:26):
and I thought it was I thoughtit was super unique.
I don't think every chapter isgonna be able to have the
courage to go out there and andand do that, but nonetheless,
Rick's certainly doing in SaltLake City.
That is for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
It's funny.
And one other thing I want toshare with you is is I I was
really excited about this.
We had I call it a reverse sharktank.
It's exit planning live.
And what we do there is uh we'vedone one and we're gonna do a
second.
We'll have more of thesemeetings next year.
I struggled because I wanted tobring business owners to the
event and I wanted them to beincognito so we could plan their
(19:00):
exit.
We're in the Discovery Gate.
We have them fill out aquestionnaire.
What are you, you know, whereare you at?
What are your questions?
And I thought, well, I can putthem up in the front with a bag
over their head and we won'tknow who they are.
That didn't sound good.
Or like the old dating gamewhere there's behind a wall,
right, contestant number one.
SPEAKER_03 (19:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
But what we did is we we did a zoom call, so they
called in over Zoom and they'dfilled out a questionnaire ahead
of time about their business,their age, you know, what their
goals are, and gas in theirtank, their energy, and their
biggest questions in their mind.
And then we took the CEPAs inthe room and the attendees, and
we devised an exit plan forthem.
We took two paths (19:39):
one is build and one is sell.
If you're gonna go down the sellpath, this is what you do.
If you're gonna build, these arethe next steps that you take.
Do you have you done a businessvaluation?
Have you calculated your wealthgap?
Have you done a personalfinancial plan?
What is your profit and valuegaps?
And at the end of that, they hada plan.
And we wrote it on a board.
(19:59):
Those business owners went awaywith such value from that
meeting.
In fact, I should share with thecomments, they just loved that
meeting.
They're like, Rick, you guyssolidified what I knew.
And some of the comments weren'tso nice because we weren't in
person.
A couple of the guys are like,Your baby's ugly, that thing,
yeah, it wouldn't sell.
Oh man.
You know, and and it's like,ooh, that was a little hard to
(20:20):
hear, but it's what they neededto hear.
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
And I had so much fun with that event.
We're gonna do more of those.
And and I thought that it wouldbe hard to get business owners
that wanted to do it, but theywere like signing up before I
even was halfway through mypitch.
They're like, I'm in.
Yeah, Rick, sign me up.
You know, I gotta do this.
So they live with thesequestions every day in their
head.
They're wondering, do I build,do I sell, what do I do?
(20:47):
And they're thirsty for thathelp.
And so the SIPAs and the SIPAcommunity provided it to them
real time at that event, and itwas it was a huge success.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
So, kind of rounding this this all out, as our kind
of resident collaborator here,right?
And what what does it take?
So, if I'm a brand new SIPA kindof entering this community,
regardless of what professionaldiscipline I represent, a core
part of being a certified exitplanning advisor, and I think an
effective advisor with an owner,is the ability to collaborate
(21:19):
and connect.
So, in your mind, if you had togive that advice out to your
peers inside of the SIPAcommunity, what to you makes a
best in class collaborator andconnector of people?
Read the book, The Go Giver.
The go-giver.
I think you've given me thisbook.
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
The go-giver is amazing.
And uh relationships aren't likeflipping a switch.
We all want to just go flip aswitch and hey, we got this
relationship, yeah, we'll sendbusiness back and forth, right?
SPEAKER_03 (21:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
That's not how it works.
And and I would say the thirdthing is lead with your ears,
not with your mouth.
And what I mean by that is wewant to meet someone and we want
to give them the elevator pitch,right?
And no, let's not give them theelevator pitch.
Let's ask them about theirbusiness.
Let me give you an example ofthat.
So we were uh at a conventionand I had a booth at a
(22:05):
convention, I was solicitingbusiness owners for business,
right?
And I was giving away freevaluations.
I printed up all these cards, Ihad a big stack of these cards,
I'm all excited.
Um and people would walk by andI'd go out and go, hey, you want
a free business valuation?
You know, it's worth like 800bucks.
And I struggled to give themaway.
The owners would actually, Iwatched them, they would walk
around and they would avoid melike I had the plague.
(22:27):
I thought I had COVID, right?
I'm giving these things away.
I'm like, hey, I'm giving you800 bucks worth of value here.
Right.
And um, I'm like, I need tochange my approach.
And so I went to the back of thebooth instead of the front, and
I, you know, somebody walked byand I go, Oh, nice cowboy boots.
Where did you get those?
Or I'd be like, How are youenjoying the show?
(22:50):
You know, are you getting value?
And and so I led with questions,led with my ears, and they would
come over to me, and then theywould start talking, and I would
just, you know, start talking tothem about their business.
You know, how's how's yourbusiness doing?
What's the market like?
And they would talk to me andwe'd we'd start a conversation
for 10 or 15 minutes, and Iwould never bring up what I did.
(23:12):
They would bring it up.
Yeah, it would be like, okay,but when they brought it up, the
walls were down and that it wasno longer a let's run away from
it.
They truly wanted to know what Iwanted to know.
Once they knew that I caredabout them, then they cared
about me, right?
And they're willing to acceptit.
Was a total turnaround and totalgame changer for us at the
(23:34):
event.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
I love that.
I think that's a great piece ofadvice.
We uh talked to this a bit tooin inside of the SEPA community,
and again in our venture tobecome best in class and the
most valued and trusted advisoris I think the advisor of the
future, let's call it, right?
The advisor that I thinkbusiness owners are looking for
now and in the future uh issomebody that can instead of
just giving the right answers,ask the right questions and
(23:58):
listen.
So I think it's actually a greatuh piece of advice.
Rick, well that is already uhthat's already we're already at
time.
And so I might have to have youback so we could dive dive
deeper around your Cinderellastory and snowmobiling and your
other impacts inside of the theEPI community.
I appreciate you coming all theway in from Utah to Ohio to join
our our our partner summit overthe last couple of weeks.
(24:20):
You will see Rick again insideof the Utah chapter.
So if you're in town, uh Utahchapters open, please uh feel
free to check them out.
You'll also see them next yearat our exit planning summit in
Nashville, uh Nashville,Tennessee.
So uh Rick, really appreciateyou coming and hanging out on
the Exit Is Now podcast, and uhyou have a safe trip home.
And for our audience, our nextepisode is October 15th.
(24:43):
So please subscribe, listen, andleave a review on all of your
podcast platforms.
Thanks, Rick.
Thank you, Scott.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
Thank you for attending our podcast.
We invite you to join us forfuture episodes of MA Murders
and Accusations, the good, thebad, and the ugly of selling
your business.
You can also visit us atwww.bsalesgroup.com or email
Rick directly at rick atbsalesgroup.com.
Hello and welcome to MA Murders and Accusations, the
good, the bad, and the ugly ofselling your business.
We dig into what you need toknow and how not to kill the
sell of your business.
Now here's our host, Rick J.
Krebs, Mergers and AcquisitionsAdvisor.
SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the show.
I was recently asked to be aguest on my friend's podcast.
My friend's name is ScottSnyder.
He's the president of the ExitPlanning Institute and leading
the nationwide charge for exitplanning.
So enjoy, and we're going totalk about collaboration.
We're going to talk about whatwe do, and of course, exit
(00:46):
planning.
Thanks for tuning in.
But when they brought it up, thewalls were down, and that it was
no longer a must run away fromhim.
They truly wanted to know what Iwanted to know.
Once they knew that I caredabout them, then they cared
about me and they're willing toaccept it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Hey everybody, and welcome to the Exit is Now
podcast with me, your host,Scott Snyder.
We're on a special series hereover the next two or three
episodes as we are broadcastingfrom EPI's headquarters during
our EPI Partner Summit.
What our EPI Partner Summit is,is a place where uh VIPs like
our chapter presidents, ourfaculty, our sponsors, and our
(01:30):
partners that all help build andcontribute to the EPI community
come together once a year herein Cleveland, Ohio at EPIHQ to
really uh drive, I think,clarity, alignment, and vision.
And one of our guests, who Ithink you all know certainly in
the EPI community very well, isnone other than my buddy Rick,
uh, who is a the owner of acompany, My Biz Value, I think a
(01:53):
very recognizable name, walkingthrough our partner and exhibit
hall each year.
But also uh two other, I think,claims to fame for him inside of
the EPI community.
Number one, he is the chapterpresident of our Utah chapter,
and then beyond that, he uh thisyear at our exit planning summit
won a member of the year.
And so I asked him on theobviously he's here, he's in
(02:15):
here in town as a communitypartner for us, but I really
want to dive into uh the best inclass SEPA element that is
around connection andcollaboration, and that's really
what makes up the the member ofthe year each year.
So with that, Rick, welcome uhto the show.
And and and maybe I would saytoo, if you follow us on
LinkedIn, this is the guy thattook me snowmobiling in January
(02:38):
or la laughing off air.
I see Rick had asked me whilewe're sitting on top of this
massive mountain in Utah, haveyou ever been snowmobiling
before?
And I said, Yeah, throughcornfields in Ohio, but nothing
like this.
So nonetheless, welcome toCleveland and and and welcome to
the show.
Thank you, Scott.
I appreciate it.
So as a partner, uh for thosethat are perhaps unfamiliar, can
you just talk to us first aboutthe the business that you've
(03:01):
started and owned and andperhaps how it's how in
collaboration you're workingwith with CEPAs from around the
community?
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
So I started the business.
I I sell businesses, that's mymain business.
And and um about ten years ago,I had a client approach me about
getting a business valuation.
And uh I would send them out tosomeone that had a certified
value and uh C VA, and they keptcoming back or like ping pong
balls got they were like and I'dsend them out and they're like
(03:29):
Rick, it's it's you know, it'sten grand, and I just need a
number.
And so finally one client he hadan insurance business and he
twisted my arm and said, Hey,please just pull some
comparables, give me a number,and I said, Okay.
I quoted him a number, I did it,and uh he loved it.
And then he uh came back and andI was doing some work for his
buddies, you know, and it justkind of blossomed from there.
(03:50):
And I saw this niche or thisneed in the market, and we
created this um based on on whatthe clients wanted, and they
wanted an affordable valuationthat they could make an informed
decision that didn't break thepiggy bank, that just gave them
a solid number.
And as you know, with thetriggering event, that's what
it's all about.
You know, when we're calculatingthe wealth gap, we gotta know
(04:12):
what the business is worth, andwe gotta have something we can
rely on.
That's usually the biggest holein the financial plan.
They're like, what's yourbusiness worth?
Oh, I don't know, four millionbucks, whatever.
And so now I work with advisorsand collaborate with them,
advisors all over the country atthat triggering event in the in
the initial stage when they'rejust getting started, because
(04:33):
they don't they don't want tospend 10 grand or 15 or more.
They want to spend a smalldollar amount and make a small
investment to get a number.
SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
Well, and I would say to get started, right?
I think that the the triggeringevent inside of the discover
gate of the methodology is iscalled such because it triggers
the action of the owner.
It's a starting point, it is theidentification of what we have
and what we could have.
And so, yeah, I think that weneed a number so we could start
moving, right?
And so we might investigate thatnumber in a deeper way as we
(05:02):
build, but nevertheless, yeah,just starting out is for you
have to have a starting point.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Yep.
And what we do is we are about,and you've said this many times,
it's uh it's about a number.
But I try and do some brainsurgery as well, and that is to
change their thinking fromincome generation to value
creation.
Absolutely.
And that's why we do a phonecall with them.
Once it's done, we set up ameeting with the advisor,
myself, and the client will gothrough.
(05:29):
We do a phone call with theclient, and they leave with a
number, and they also leave witha with a path and a design on
what they need to do next.
And I think that's the biggestvalue that we bring.
That's how we collaborate withthe advisors because you know
then they're like, okay, is itan internal sale?
Okay, what do I need to do?
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
What are the next steps forthat?
(05:50):
If it's is it an ESOP?
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
What does that look like?
Uh an exit, you know, an intraexternal, whatever it is, we
collaborate with them and bringthat advisor in.
Sometimes the advisors want tobe the quarterback, sometimes
they need me to be thequarterback.
And so that clearly definesroles and that path forward.
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
So let's uh focus uh focus in on that that
collaboration.
We've kind of talked about ithere in the opening moments of
the show.
And when we look at uh not onlyjust the certified exit planning
advisor, Rick, but if we lookedat what truly makes the most
trusted and valued advisor, itbecomes about a relationship
with an owner, not necessarilyjust a transaction.
(06:30):
And when you study the advisorslike you that are really good at
it, there are three elementsthat make up these most valuable
and trusted advisors that arehave deep relationships with
business owners.
The first is they have thisability to change their language
and approach with owners, toembrace what you just said, not
an income generation mindset,but they deliver a value
(06:50):
creation mindset to the owner.
Uh the next thing that they haveis they are typically lifelong
learners, right?
They believe in professionalgrowth, they believe in
purposeful growth, a core valuethat frankly hangs behind us on
the on the EPI core value, uhcore value wall, but they are
lifelong learners as themethodology evolves.
We all kind of evolve along withit as more and more owners come
(07:13):
into uh come into the community.
And the one that really isfocused on member of the year is
really around connection andcollaboration.
And uh and and I think it's oneof the three that you do really,
really well.
I was always impressed thatsnowmobiling trip actually
stemmed from you inviting me outto to Salt Lake City to speak at
(07:35):
your chapter to kind of kick offthe year.
And uh I was I had multipleshock moments, if I'm if I'm
being honest, that were reallyimpactful.
You sat me down uh withbreakfast with your leadership
team, and I can remember on theway to the meeting, I took on my
phone and I texted my team and Isaid that was probably one of
the most collaborative and andand and maybe brought together
(07:58):
leadership teams I think I'veI've might have had breakfast
with.
And then I got to your meeting,and the meeting had a sense of
energy and and fire to it, whereyou could just tell people
weren't just coming to learn,people were coming to also see
each other, meet, greet, andfrankly try to do some more
business together.
And so that community that youhave built in Utah has been, I
(08:21):
think, quite significant.
So I'd like to focus the show alittle bit around for our
audiences.
How did you do that?
What makes you this connectorand collaborator of people?
And maybe let's start with theleadership team.
So when you look at a leadershipteam, which I think Rick is a is
a nice example of what a uh coreexit planning advisory team
(08:41):
could even be like for an owner,how do you choose those type of
advisors and how do you lead ateam like that along the way?
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
So, Scott, one of the first things that that
happened is I was thinking aboutstarting the chapter.
My initial inclination was let'slock all the other business
brokers out.
I don't want to be the otherone.
I want a monopoly here, justbreak.
I got it.
I'm here, right?
Let's let's shut the door.
And and I'm like, Rick, I kindof beat myself up, like, Rick,
(09:11):
this is stupid, right?
Don't have this mentality ofscarcity.
Exactly.
Have an abundance mentality.
And so not only was I notlocking them out, I was reaching
out and inviting other businessbrokers to be part of this.
And I and what happens, and I Isaid this many times, it's like
when you raise the level of thesea, all boats rise.
(09:33):
Exactly right.
And so, as a collaborator and aneducator, I'm like, we're gonna
make each of us better.
We're gonna make all of thepeople that are here better,
more educated, they can speakthe language, the value
acceleration methodology, theseep is in the room, they know
what to say.
And we're not competitorsbecause this this silver
tsunami, this this$14 trillionthat's coming our way, it's not
(09:57):
a matter of how do we slice thepie.
It's like how do we buildfunnels large enough to handle
this business that's gonna comeour way because it's gonna just
it's gonna mull us over.
And we need good people, notjust two or three.
We need dozens and dozens ofpeople, right, that are gonna
handle it.
Or the business owners are gonnasuffer.
And it and it's all about thebusiness owners, truly.
(10:17):
As we get better, they getbetter, and they have better
exits, and it's just good forthe community.
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
I think going along those lines too, right?
Going beyond the silver tsunamiand and maybe into the next
generations as well, one thingthat we opened up this year with
at our partner summit was aconversation around what does
the EPI and the EPI communityand the exit planning profession
look like in in three to fiveyears.
And I think that beyond the babyboomer business owners exiting,
(10:43):
you have this unique millennialcrowd that might exit multiple
times throughout their uhthroughout their career or out
their business owner journey.
So to your point, a scarcitymindset does not make for
collaboration because if you ifyou have the scarcity mindset,
you're shutting the door.
Instead of shutting the door,you're actually welcoming your
competitors in because frankly,I also think we all grow
together, even with thecompetitors in the room.
(11:05):
We do.
If you could take, you know, ifyou could take two back, you
know if you could take two SuperBowl-winning teams, you're not
two different teams, but you putthem collectively together, I'm
sure they're bringing differentelements to the table, and
you're like, ooh, I like that.
Maybe I can maybe I can use someof that.
And then the other guy in theroom that's doing what you uh
you that you have done, you'resaying, man, I really like the
way uh Rick approaches that.
(11:25):
Maybe I'll take a little bit ofthat in.
And so to your point, alladvisors are better.
And I think that's what we'reafter, right?
That's truly the impact ofhelping companies become more
significant.
It's not just about one, it'sabout many.
So community.
Yeah, it's about community,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
It's about the whole community.
And uh and like my leadershipteam, yeah.
I developed uh what I did, and Iought to weigh, I I'm a skinny
guy, I ought to weigh 400 poundswith as many people as I can.
SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
How many breakfast meetings you go out to?
SPEAKER_02 (11:50):
Oh, uh hundreds of meetings and lunches.
And and I was like, I felt likeI was the Pied Piper of exit
planning in Utah because nobodyelse was talking about it.
And I'm like, I got to get somepeople excited.
So I went around and I got onLinkedIn and I just found
strangers.
People that I'm like, I need anMA attorney.
Well, let me find one.
You know, I need so-and-so.
(12:11):
And and I just started takingthem to lunch and saying, hey,
I'm doing this, and I'mwondering if you want to be a
part of it.
And and what I found was peoplegot excited.
And they were like, Yeah, I'llbe a part of it.
So we assembled a leadershipteam who had the same core
values of collaboration, abouteducation, and about raising the
level of the sea so all boatscould rise.
(12:32):
And and when I surrounded myselfwith that team, that became the
core and I think the foundationfrom which the rest of the
chapter just flourished.
SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
And there's a couple of key things to pull out there
for the o uh for the audience.
One, uh literally just beingable to go on a platform like
LinkedIn, look for folks thatare local, and simply reach out
and have a meeting, right?
A collaborative session.
Two, once he had the rightpeople in the room, we said
collectively, what are the corevalues of this leadership team
and let that let that kind oflead us down the path of
(13:04):
inviting more uh into ourmeeting.
And I think those two key thingsare possible are are are
important for others that arelooking to connect and
collaborate, or frankly, startand and run a great chapter.
I think it it truly starts witha great leadership team.
And for me, again, when I wassitting at that breakfast the
morning before the morning ofour meeting, uh it was like a
(13:25):
hundred percent participationtoo.
So you clearly have peoplebought into the overall purpose,
mission, and vision of what youcollectively uh are trying to
build.
So that's gotta be doingsomething right, right?
It's when you could lead peoplethat way, I think it's it's
super impressive.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe chapter though as a whole,
right?
So there's another one of thereasons I wanted to come out and
(13:46):
see you is there's this likebreak down the wall moment, if
you will, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
And there's a typical meeting spaces.
SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
I'm sure people certainly have been in them.
They have airwalls, right, thatsplit the room into you know two
halves or you know, thirds orwhatever, quarters, whatever it
might be.
And Rick, talk about LinkedIntoo.
Rick goes online and videotapeshim taking down the wall.
And it was a proud moment forsomebody that you know has
poured a lot of resources intobuilding a successful chapter
(14:13):
when you have to take down thewall to expand it because so
many people are wanting to comeout and collaborate.
So, how did you get to thatbreak down the wall moment,
though?
Uh, because you started fromlike, you know, you start from
the ground up, right?
You might get a 120 people atyour first meeting as you
launch, you drop down to like 20or 30, and you start to build
back up from a core group to 50,60, 70, and one, and whatever
(14:36):
that might be.
Can you talk how do you get tobring together so many different
types of people from the greaterSalt Lake community?
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
So, first of all, it didn't start that way.
Right.
When I started the chapter, I inthe back of my mind, and here
I'm just revealing all of my allof my insecurities and
everything, but in the back ofmy mind, I'm like, well, worst
case, I got a couple of buddies,so there'll be three people
there.
Right.
So more of a round table.
Yeah, more of a round table, allthese chairs.
(15:05):
But um, what I found was exitplanning has been on the mind of
a lot of people, and they'relooking to hitch their wagon to
the right ship or to the rightthe organization.
And so when I started to bringit up, it made sense.
And exit planning makes goodbusiness sense regardless of
whether you're gonna exit ornot.
(15:26):
And so these advisors, what Isaid resonated, and I just I
just repeated what they taughtme in the SEPA training.
It's nothing new, right?
Right.
But it it resonated, and people,I I just repeated it, and people
started to they were attractedto it because I followed that um
value acceleration methodologymodel, and I followed what I'd
(15:48):
learned in my SEPA training andrepeated it, and they're like,
yes, it resonates with me.
I want to be part of it.
And we have a couple of thingsin our chapter.
We're not commercial, we don'tallow people to come in and and
to peddle their wares orwhatever.
We are strictly educational andcollaborative, and we have a
no-poaching role.
(16:09):
So when a when an advisor bringsa client in, you know, that
client doesn't feel like freshmeat in front of everyone else.
So I think I think we created aforum that was safe and a forum
that that provided valuableeducation that people are
already searching for, and itjust naturally flourished.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Talk to me about the unique education that you're
doing.
If you go on Rick's LinkedIn,they had like a almost they
conduct I I would describe it asthey they conducted a uh a
formal education session, but asyou are going to like a play,
the playhouse, right?
Like here in Cleveland, you havePlayhouse Square, you're like
watching it unfold by seeing astory unfold.
(16:51):
Talk to us about some of theunique things that you've put in
there to attract and and andretain uh great people come to
meetings.
So these are funny.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
So there's two things that I've done.
I um I business owners are likeCinderella at their first ball.
And I tell this story over andover, and I'm like, you're
Cinderella, you're your firstball, and what do you do?
You fall in love with the firsthandsome prince that comes your
way.
You know, you get an unsolicitedLOI, and ah, I'm in love.
Oh, somebody thinks I'm pretty.
(17:22):
You know, oh, like we jokedabout it, and I wrote a script.
I wrote a mini play.
I actually put on a dress, ablue dress, and a wig.
Cinderella.
Yeah, Cinderella, right?
I was Cinderella, and I wasugly, but I thought I was
pretty.
And I had a there's more to thatstory.
You had a wig on and everything.
I had a wig on, and I I hadanother chapter member.
He he was handsome prince and hehad the jacket.
(17:43):
But you know, we threw in thingslike I don't need to sign an
NDA.
We have a new thing, a new form.
It's called a friend DA.
You don't even have to sign it.
You just trust me.
You just give me all your taxes,you know.
And we just we made fun of theprocess.
Yes.
But in making fun of it andourselves, we're able to educate
business owners in a meaningfulway.
And they're like, ah,Cinderella, I get it.
(18:05):
You know, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:06):
And keep them engaged, I would assume too,
right?
As somebody that has to producea bunch of education classes and
typically in kind of form orlecture form, uh storytelling, I
think, becomes a big part ofthat, right?
To kind of bring it back, uhmake it real, uh, see it
applied, and keep it fun.
And you did that in your mostrecent chapter meeting as well,
(18:26):
and I thought it was I thoughtit was super unique.
I don't think every chapter isgonna be able to have the
courage to go out there and andand do that, but nonetheless,
Rick's certainly doing in SaltLake City.
That is for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
It's funny.
And one other thing I want toshare with you is is I I was
really excited about this.
We had I call it a reverse sharktank.
It's exit planning live.
And what we do there is uh we'vedone one and we're gonna do a
second.
We'll have more of thesemeetings next year.
I struggled because I wanted tobring business owners to the
event and I wanted them to beincognito so we could plan their
(19:00):
exit.
We're in the Discovery Gate.
We have them fill out aquestionnaire.
What are you, you know, whereare you at?
What are your questions?
And I thought, well, I can putthem up in the front with a bag
over their head and we won'tknow who they are.
That didn't sound good.
Or like the old dating gamewhere there's behind a wall,
right, contestant number one.
SPEAKER_03 (19:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
But what we did is we we did a zoom call, so they
called in over Zoom and they'dfilled out a questionnaire ahead
of time about their business,their age, you know, what their
goals are, and gas in theirtank, their energy, and their
biggest questions in their mind.
And then we took the CEPAs inthe room and the attendees, and
we devised an exit plan forthem.
We took two paths (19:39):
one is build and one is sell.
If you're gonna go down the sellpath, this is what you do.
If you're gonna build, these arethe next steps that you take.
Do you have you done a businessvaluation?
Have you calculated your wealthgap?
Have you done a personalfinancial plan?
What is your profit and valuegaps?
And at the end of that, they hada plan.
And we wrote it on a board.
(19:59):
Those business owners went awaywith such value from that
meeting.
In fact, I should share with thecomments, they just loved that
meeting.
They're like, Rick, you guyssolidified what I knew.
And some of the comments weren'tso nice because we weren't in
person.
A couple of the guys are like,Your baby's ugly, that thing,
yeah, it wouldn't sell.
Oh man.
You know, and and it's like,ooh, that was a little hard to
(20:20):
hear, but it's what they neededto hear.
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
And I had so much fun with that event.
We're gonna do more of those.
And and I thought that it wouldbe hard to get business owners
that wanted to do it, but theywere like signing up before I
even was halfway through mypitch.
They're like, I'm in.
Yeah, Rick, sign me up.
You know, I gotta do this.
So they live with thesequestions every day in their
head.
They're wondering, do I build,do I sell, what do I do?
(20:47):
And they're thirsty for thathelp.
And so the SIPAs and the SIPAcommunity provided it to them
real time at that event, and itwas it was a huge success.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
So, kind of rounding this this all out, as our kind
of resident collaborator here,right?
And what what does it take?
So, if I'm a brand new SIPA kindof entering this community,
regardless of what professionaldiscipline I represent, a core
part of being a certified exitplanning advisor, and I think an
effective advisor with an owner,is the ability to collaborate
(21:19):
and connect.
So, in your mind, if you had togive that advice out to your
peers inside of the SIPAcommunity, what to you makes a
best in class collaborator andconnector of people?
Read the book, The Go Giver.
The go-giver.
I think you've given me thisbook.
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
The go-giver is amazing.
And uh relationships aren't likeflipping a switch.
We all want to just go flip aswitch and hey, we got this
relationship, yeah, we'll sendbusiness back and forth, right?
SPEAKER_03 (21:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
That's not how it works.
And and I would say the thirdthing is lead with your ears,
not with your mouth.
And what I mean by that is wewant to meet someone and we want
to give them the elevator pitch,right?
And no, let's not give them theelevator pitch.
Let's ask them about theirbusiness.
Let me give you an example ofthat.
So we were uh at a conventionand I had a booth at a
(22:05):
convention, I was solicitingbusiness owners for business,
right?
And I was giving away freevaluations.
I printed up all these cards, Ihad a big stack of these cards,
I'm all excited.
Um and people would walk by andI'd go out and go, hey, you want
a free business valuation?
You know, it's worth like 800bucks.
And I struggled to give themaway.
The owners would actually, Iwatched them, they would walk
around and they would avoid melike I had the plague.
(22:27):
I thought I had COVID, right?
I'm giving these things away.
I'm like, hey, I'm giving you800 bucks worth of value here.
Right.
And um, I'm like, I need tochange my approach.
And so I went to the back of thebooth instead of the front, and
I, you know, somebody walked byand I go, Oh, nice cowboy boots.
Where did you get those?
Or I'd be like, How are youenjoying the show?
(22:50):
You know, are you getting value?
And and so I led with questions,led with my ears, and they would
come over to me, and then theywould start talking, and I would
just, you know, start talking tothem about their business.
You know, how's how's yourbusiness doing?
What's the market like?
And they would talk to me andwe'd we'd start a conversation
for 10 or 15 minutes, and Iwould never bring up what I did.
(23:12):
They would bring it up.
Yeah, it would be like, okay,but when they brought it up, the
walls were down and that it wasno longer a let's run away from
it.
They truly wanted to know what Iwanted to know.
Once they knew that I caredabout them, then they cared
about me, right?
And they're willing to acceptit.
Was a total turnaround and totalgame changer for us at the
(23:34):
event.
SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
I love that.
I think that's a great piece ofadvice.
We uh talked to this a bit tooin inside of the SEPA community,
and again in our venture tobecome best in class and the
most valued and trusted advisoris I think the advisor of the
future, let's call it, right?
The advisor that I thinkbusiness owners are looking for
now and in the future uh issomebody that can instead of
just giving the right answers,ask the right questions and
(23:58):
listen.
So I think it's actually a greatuh piece of advice.
Rick, well that is already uhthat's already we're already at
time.
And so I might have to have youback so we could dive dive
deeper around your Cinderellastory and snowmobiling and your
other impacts inside of the theEPI community.
I appreciate you coming all theway in from Utah to Ohio to join
our our our partner summit overthe last couple of weeks.
(24:20):
You will see Rick again insideof the Utah chapter.
So if you're in town, uh Utahchapters open, please uh feel
free to check them out.
You'll also see them next yearat our exit planning summit in
Nashville, uh Nashville,Tennessee.
So uh Rick, really appreciateyou coming and hanging out on
the Exit Is Now podcast, and uhyou have a safe trip home.
And for our audience, our nextepisode is October 15th.
(24:43):
So please subscribe, listen, andleave a review on all of your
podcast platforms.
Thanks, Rick.
Thank you, Scott.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
Thank you for attending our podcast.
We invite you to join us forfuture episodes of MA Murders
and Accusations, the good, thebad, and the ugly of selling
your business.
You can also visit us atwww.bsalesgroup.com or email
Rick directly at rick atbsalesgroup.com.
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