LIVE CASE STUDIES: Answering the Buy or Build Question, Real Time, Real Answers

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm excited, really excited, for this event.
So, just waiting for the lastcouple people here to get seated
and then we're going to goahead and get started.
So we're recording right, we'reon.
Okay, first I want to welcomeeveryone here, and this is the
Utah chapter of Exit Planners,the EPI, which is the Exit

(00:21):
Planning Institute.
We're a national organizationof exit planners and we started
the Utah chapter because wedidn't have anything here and we
wanted to help people makebetter exits, and that's what
this is all about.
I'm really excited about thisevent.
I've been wanting to do thisfor quite some time now.

(00:42):
I think I've been thinkingabout it for about a year, and I
wanted to do an event where wehad business owners that are
thinking about selling and Iwanted them to sit up in front
and tell us what they were goingthrough.
But what I learned was thatbusiness owners don't want
people to know that they'rethinking about selling, and it

(01:03):
would reveal confidentiality,right, we would reveal that
they're thinking about sellingand it would reveal it
confidentiality, right, we wouldreveal that they're thinking
about selling.
And so I was trying to figureout how to do it and what do we
do, and so we came up with thisidea where we're going to do
case studies that are live andthe business owners are not here
, but they're right there on thecamera and they're with us

(01:26):
incognito.
I think the two on this casestudy said Bill and Tad.
I thought that was funny.
I'm going to try and not callthem by their real names, but
anyway, everyone should havereceived the material that we
have and we're going to gothrough it.
But before we do, I have acouple of items of business that

(01:48):
I wanted to go through.
All right, we have two newchapter members and I'm going to
have them introduce themselvesnext month or next month instead
of this time.
But the one thing I wanted tomention is next month we're
going to do a meeting and that'sgoing to be on August 21st.
Anyone who's attending hereprovided their email.

(02:08):
We'll make sure you get aninvitation.
But next month I'm excited alsobecause that one we're going to
do.
It's called letters of intentwhat to do with them.
All too often, business ownersare getting unsolicited offers
or getting you know.
I'm on the phone with a groupyesterday and they had a letter
of intent and it looks prettygood, and what happens is they

(02:29):
just freak out.
They don't know what to do.
When they panic, they losemoney, and so we're going to go
through a letter of intent.
We have an AI tool that Joshbuilt around letters of intent.
We're going to talk about whatthat is and how to use the tool,
but basically, what do you dowith a letter of intent, how do
you best handle it and how doyou negotiate it?
And we're going to do somethingwith Cinderella.

(02:52):
I'm not sure what that is yet,but something with Cinderella
that's going to be fun.
So that'll be August 21st alunch meeting like this 1130 to
1.
Other item of business I hadbefore we get started, and that
is a copy of this.
This is being recorded and acopy of this will be given to to

(03:13):
all the attendees, both virtualattendees and in-person
attendees, and you can sharethat.
But I've had multiple requestsfrom people that could not make
it today, that wanted a copy ofthis, and so you'll have that
link where you can share that.
So, without any more delay,we're going to go ahead and get
started.
So what I want to talk about isit's case number one, and this

(03:41):
is the discovery gate.
This is the first place wherebusiness owners are thinking
about a transition and thisbusiness I'm going to read the
summary for those people thatdidn't get the material.
But we've had business ownersfill out a questionnaire and
what we're going to do is we'regoing to walk them through an
exit plan business.

(04:05):
So they're a fast-growingsoftware company with three
owners.
They're evaluating whether tosell or to build.
That's what we're going to talkabout today Sell, build and
other suggestions.
Okay, key concerns to beaddressed.
The business is experiencingrapid growth and the owners are
uncertain whether to sell now orto continue scaling in hopes of
achieving a larger exit in thefuture.
So for them, how do we get offthe merry-go-round right?

(04:27):
They're making good money,they're happy, they don't want
to leave money on the table, butthey're growing so fast they
just don't know what to do.
A single customer accounts for30% of total revenues.
The potential loss of thisclient poses significant risk.
The technology landscape isevolving quickly, particularly

(04:47):
with AI.
The owners are in the processof acquiring another company to
integrate much needed AIcapabilities, but staying ahead
of the technological changeremains a major challenge for
them.
Okay, so we have two.
Well, there's three owners, butthe two main ones in there ages
61, 53, and 59.

(05:08):
And if the owners havequestions or we have questions
for them, we'll do that throughthe chat.
Matt, if that's okay, all right, good, thank you.
Thanks to Matt Matt's, the guythat makes all this happen.
Okay, I've got some things herethat I wanted to go through.
First.
We're going to look at thereasons for not selling, and I

(05:35):
got to go back to it here.
I won't go through all theinformation, but I want to go
through the build path.
So, as business owners, the bigquestion is do I build or do I
sell?
Do I keep it, build it a littlelonger, hold out or do?
I sell it, and they wake upevery day with that.

(05:56):
It's just it's facing them andthey're not sure what to do.
So what I want to do is we'regoing to turn the camera out to
everyone in the audience and wewant to hear your ideas and
input on this.
This is a group of there's manySEPAs in here.
There's some business owners,some business coaches, cpas.
This is our group.

(06:16):
This is the Utah chaptermembers and guests today.
So we're going to give oursuggestions and what I want to
do is we can turn the camera tothe audience and I'm going to
walk around and when you haveideas, I'll hand you the mic,
but please tell us who you are,because what I want to do is I
want to share the memberdirectory with all of the

(06:36):
attendees.
So if they want to reach outseparately, if something that
you say resonated, or they wantto continue that discussion,
they can do so, and that will bedone offline, but your
information will be sharedcontact information in the
membership directory.
Okay, so we're going to movethe camera, then we're good.
Okay, I'm back here now.
We're trying to figure out thelogistics of this, and it was

(06:58):
not an easy thing to do.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Use a copy electronically, I can send you
an email if you don't have it.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
If you need a copy electronically.
I can send you an email if youdon't have it.
Everyone should have received acopy of this.
Okay, good, so the build path.
If they're focusing on thebuilding, what are the
recommended action items?
Okay, Patrick.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
So, patrick, you want us to state our name and all
that.
Okay, patrick McMillan withAmplio.
Sorry, the questions regardingbuilding.
What's the recommended path?
Obviously number one.
Your customer concentration isan issue.
When you look at range ofvalues, you're going to fall
very easily into that lowerrange because of that 30% high

(07:43):
customer concentration.
That not only is a risk to abuyer but it's a risk to you.
And so first thing I would dois be really work on that.
I know I read this last nightbut I can't remember the exact
thing.
But I remember you're workingon a specific product.
I think it's going to create$300,000 or $600,000 more
revenue in the future.

(08:03):
I would try to accelerate thatwork on that.
But then also go to yourexisting customers and see if
there's some expansion ofrevenue that you can do, some
product offering expansion orsomething to try to get some of
that low-hanging fruit.
Also, ask for referrals fromyour existing customers.

(08:23):
That would be the number onething that I would do would be
to work on that.
Second thing is I believe itsounds like, if I remember
correctly, you have a prettyrobust key employee group Not
the three of you, but your CFOand your COO, I believe it was,

(08:45):
and some others.
I would really start working onthem and seeing who they can
reach out to for a couple ofthings.
Number one expand growth as faras other customers reduce that
concentration.
And number two, I would startasking them if they would be
interested in potentially takingover the company.

(09:05):
I would really kind of alignyourself to say, hey, would an
ESOP might be an option.
So, but that's a discussion formaybe later on.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
All right, thank you, lisa.

Speaker 8 (09:19):
My name is Lisa Wandry.
Definitely the customerconcentration.
That was the first thing thatstood out.
Not only does the one customerrepresent 30%, but the second
customer is one tenth, so you'vegot to expand that customer
base.
A couple of things that I notedthey rated themselves a four on

(09:42):
our customer, vendor andemployee agreements formalized
in writing.
So they've given themselvessixes and fives in a lot of
areas.
I noticed that four is thelowest that they've rated
themselves anywhere, and I thinkthat they're at a level of
business you know, of runningtheir business, that all of

(10:02):
their customer, vendor andemployee agreements need to be
in writing, and that's going tobe helpful in that sales process
because you know the buyer isgoing to be asking for that.
They're going to want to bereviewing that.
And then, of course, the otherthing that really stood out to
me is they have done no personalfinancial plans within the past

(10:26):
year.
And if you are trying to make adecision of whether you want to
grow or exit, if you don't knowhow much money you need to run
the life that you want to haveafter the fact, then you're
setting yourself up for a wholelot of stress and a whole lot of
regret.
You've got to make sure thatwhatever you get to keep at the

(10:51):
end of the day is going to fundyour lifestyle, because, as of
yet, I've yet to meet a singleperson who wants to reduce their
standard of living inretirement.

Speaker 9 (11:03):
Great.

Speaker 8 (11:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Lisa.
Thank you, patrick.
Okay, what should they be awareof?
What are other things that theyneed to be aware of if they're
going to build?
Okay, dave.

Speaker 10 (11:16):
One.
Oh, david Gilliland.
One of the things I would watchout for is they have rated
really high a five for that.
Their employees do well fromthis exit, and that's a.
Anyway.
It's a dangerous spot unlessthey have defined what that

(11:37):
means.
Do they mean the employees havegreater opportunities for their
growth, that they're going tobe able to stick around because
there's massive casualties inacquisitions?
And so if, oh sorry you'resaying to build, I apologize,
but even in that same light it'sthe same answer.

(11:58):
Define what great looks likefor those employees and what
you're going to try to build forthem.
Are we talking about financialwell-being or are you talking
about opportunities for growth?
What is a win there?
So that's one I would look atpretty closely.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Okay, two more, and then we're going to go to the
sell path.
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Josh Ho.
I work with Rick sellingbusinesses, but I came from a
tech background and pretty deepin the AI world.
We're going through a huge waveof technology becoming much,
much easier to create, so togrow your business.
I think one of the big thingsis what is your moat for a
customer acquisition, yourability to stand out from the
crowd and making sure thatyou're growing your moat,

(12:46):
because it's going to be easierand easier for competitors to
come into any industry if you'rea SaaS business.
So really focusing on how do wemake our customers so elated
that they're not lookinganywhere else and any other
customers that are interested,we are the only name that they
know of Really standing out andbeing the number one market

(13:07):
leader, for what you do is goingto be far more valuable than it
ever has been before.
Who's the next one?

Speaker 7 (13:15):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 13 (13:16):
Okay, mitch Bolin with Squire, if they plan on
growing I mean, we're talkingabout they're already
experiencing significant growth,right, and that's one reason
why they're considering sellingright now is because they've got

(13:36):
this really upward trajectorytrend right.
Um, and so, if they want to growit and and keep going, my, my
first question is and I maybe itwas in here and maybe it wasn't
, but I I'm curious on theircapability of continuing to grow
.
I've seen a lot of businessesgrow themselves out of business

(13:57):
and, um, I don't know what theircapital needs are going to be
in order to continue to grow.
I don't know if, uh and what,what they're going to be able to
provide that organically orinternally.
And so, really, I would want toknow and look at what their
strategy is to if they want tokeep growing it.
Can they keep growing it?

(14:19):
And the other thing is, thefirst thing we talked about was
I want to know where thatgrowth is happening.
Is it because of that 30%customer is just buying more
from them, or is that trajectoryon that concentration already
going down because they'rereaching out and getting more

(14:40):
customers and getting a morediverse customer?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
base.
Thank you.
I'm running a process right nowin a SaaS company and I had two
buyers back out this weekbecause of customer
concentration Backed out of thedeal completely.
So it's a huge deal.
Okay, go ahead.
I'm Dinah.

Speaker 14 (14:55):
Monson.
I noticed that the product thatthey have deals with medical
practices and that industry, andmy advice right now would
really be seeking an in-depththought about those companies,
because I own several mentalhealth and medical companies and
right now we are having a hugedip and a hit because of Trump's

(15:15):
legislation, because there's somuch uncertainty and because of
that, these products that weuse, like EHR systems and SAS
programs that help us, thenwe're not discontinuing our
services now.
So now it's a beautiful timebecause they're not seeing that
dip yet.
But as we're shifting, as ourmarketing is having to change to

(15:36):
maintain, let alone grow, it'sgoing to impact what we decide
to keep and the systems that wecontinue to utilize.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Thank you Okay one more and then we're going to
shift gears and go to Sal Tom.

Speaker 15 (15:54):
Tom Hall with Carson Weld.
The question I have on thegrowth side is that so many
companies that we've worked withover the years have what we
joke is a rolling five-yearretirement, and so I would just
push back on that and say growfor what and to what?
Is there a number that you'retargeting?

(16:14):
Or we're going back to thecomment earlier about having
your personal financial plan puttogether.
Do you know what your bogey is?
What is it you have to hit sothat you know, as you're
approaching Dunn, that you candisconnect if that's what you
want, but that also that there'sclarity on what you're retiring
to.

(16:36):
In my years, one thing I'veseen over and over is people
that retired that were veryexcited about retiring but
didn't have something clear toretire to, and it was a very
difficult transition.
So just having clarity aroundwhat done looks like and then
what you're retiring to.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Thank you, tom.
Okay, now can we shift thecamera back so we can show this?
Okay, what done looks like.
I wish my handwriting wasbetter, but what do we do?
Okay, so considering keeping itand running it.

(17:12):
These are the main eightsuggestions that we suggest, and
yes, Maybe we don't need totalk about cybersecurity.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
Would you make sure?

Speaker 6 (17:22):
the cybersecurity house is in it with cyber
security house If they'reselling online if they're
handling patient data, huge.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
So repeat that so we can hear with the mic.

Speaker 6 (17:43):
Hey, dustin Snyder, out2view Advisors, cyber
security is really important inthe deals that I've been seeing
recently.
There are carve-outs, there'ssetting aside large sums of
money to make sure that sellershave their SOC 2 reporting, have
everything buttoned up andsecure and if they don't, by the

(18:07):
time the deal is done likethey're pulling that out of the
enterprise value of the business.
So making sure ducks are in arow with cybersecurity is huge.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Thank you, hadn't thought about that one.
Okay, so these are the ninesuggestions that we're making.
If they're thinking aboutkeeping the business, these are
the nine suggestions that we'remaking.
If they're thinking aboutkeeping the business, these are
the nine things that we thinkthey should be working on Now.
We're going to shift gears and,if you'll put the camera to the

(18:39):
audience, we're going to go tosell.
What if they're selling?
They're not going to keep it.
They decide that they've gotenough.
They're going to go down a sellpath.
So we did evaluation.
I don't remember what thenumber was.
Anyone have the number in there31 million.
It's probably worth more nowbecause it's gone up, but we're

(19:01):
looking at 31 million.
They've not done a personalfinancial plan.
Lisa said we should do that andI think you should.
I think determining the wealthgap is extremely important and
they might think, well, 31million is enough.
Well, after you carve it out,you got taxes, you got
everything else.
Is it enough?
Or like remember, at ourmeeting recently, we had a
seller and his name was Don, andDon says his biggest mistake

(19:25):
was he went with the wrongfinancial planner.
25% of his money went out thetube within a couple of months,
right.
So these things are veryimportant to look at.
You got to do a worst casescenario.
So, if we're selling, what doeshe need to be working on right
now?
I'm going to put wealth gap upthere because and we had it on

(19:47):
that one, but I can't stress thewealth gap enough on how
important it is.
Okay, what does he need to doif he's selling?
Who's up Tom?
Question?

Speaker 15 (20:09):
About 31 million.
It was 31 million.
The question was, how much wasthe valuation?
31 um the.
The first thing I'd be focusingon um once you've got a clear
idea of what the wealth gap is,is that's going to be inherent
in that wealth gap, is what isthe tax burden?
And and are there?
Are there specific strategies?
If you're on a glide path witha timeline, then that's going to
limit what's available to you.

(20:30):
But doing whatever you can tomitigate the tax impact, and so
that would.
I think someone had mentionedan ESOP earlier.
There are a number of taxmitigation investment strategies
.
There are a number of differentstructuring tools depending on
whether but I don't think thisis a C corporation, Remember me

(20:50):
right?
Yeah, and so you know you'vegot the 1202, if that were an
option.
But just looking at the menu ofoptions that are available to
reduce that tax bill and to getright on that, Just a side
comment on that.

Speaker 8 (21:07):
Both two of the three owners were talking about doing
mission work and before aletter of intent is ever created
, if the dollar value, like yousaid, you know it's enough for
the wealth gap but maybe there'ssome additional potential for
charitable, that has to happenprior to the letter of intent.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Love that.
Donor advisory fund is oneCharitable remainder trust is
another one right, but thesethings need to be handled before
the sale and often, and some ofthem, before the letter of
intent is even signed.
Okay, other suggestions If he'sselling, what does he need to
do, patrick?

Speaker 4 (21:53):
So I'm going to go back on that.
This is Patrick McMillan againI'm going to go back on that
ESOP option.
It sounds like you have a verystrong internal team, key
employees.
They've been there for a longtime.
The size definitely fits.
You're more than 2 million ofEBITDA.
You're more than 10 million invaluation.
I would explore the ESOPopportunity because that's kind
of really checks a bunch of theboxes as far as tax planning, as

(22:13):
far as keeping the employeesengaged and taken care of and as
far as, hey, you can get morethan just one bite of the apple
on that.
So that would be an option Iwould heavily explore.

Speaker 10 (22:28):
These thoughts actually tie to both sell or
build, but going on that ESOPside, there would be a
significant cost to get someonewho could fulfill the product
vision.
More than likely losing one ofthose top individuals and one of
their growth drivers willactually be in the partnership
space in SaaS.
So they have to be on a growthtrajectory when they get to this

(22:52):
sale and their team needs to beset up.
You need to build the otherleaders around If someone's
going to buy your place unlessthey're going to buy it and
strip everyone out and just takethe tech and the customers from
it and you want a team that'sintact.
They have to be leveled up.
The buyers need to see aleadership team that can
function without the ownersfully, and so that's a key one

(23:14):
for value.
Great Thank you, john.

Speaker 9 (23:18):
My name's John Brooke .
First place, I apologize.
My mom always said that guestsought to keep their mouth shut
and leave early, so I apologizefor jumping in.
But the lady back here struck anote and I just want to explain
a project we're working on.
It's in the Dallas area.
It's a software.
It's in the medical area.

(23:40):
I ran the development team andnow I'm the CFO for it, and we
looked at buying severalcompanies.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Hold the mic up a little, john.
I'm sorry, there you go.

Speaker 9 (23:51):
We looked at buying several companies to accelerate
the acquisition of the software.
With the numbers here, I mean,I wouldn't pay $31 million for
it by a long shot, and what wedecided was that anything under
$10 million.
Now, this is a highly specificthing, not a universal statement

(24:13):
, but we'd just as soon spendthe $8 million and develop the
product, and there's very littlepatents in the software world
that prevent people from doingthings.
And so I would question if the31 million is really realistic,

(24:34):
because if they came to me, I'dsay, Okay, great, you're going
to spend 31 million, you'regoing to get seven.
Why don't you just want to justbuild it yourself?
And I would look at thiscompany as a startup.
I think the ESOP is an excellentidea, but if you run through
the values, the values are goingto be down around 10 or 11

(24:56):
million, I think, from thenumbers that I'm looking at here
, which is a significantdiscount from the 31.
Which is a significant discountfrom the, from the 31, but the
numbers, just the numbers, wouldbother me with this.
Now what would I do to fix it?
Because you can't just complain.
I think running an analyticalprojection for the next three to

(25:22):
five years, that would be ontheir basic, taking their basic
management decisions and justextrapolating that out
numerically for the next threeto five years would make sense.
Then I think I would play withthat.
You guys look at me and say,well, the guy's not 30, so take

(25:43):
this for what it's worth.
But the ages of the guys worryme.
And just for a point ofreference, I'll be 74 next month
, so it's not like I'm againstold people.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
Well.

Speaker 9 (25:57):
I am.
I don't like hanging out withthem, to be honest, you know I'm
tired of watching Lawrence Welkat night, you know they're I'm
I'm tired of watching lawrencewelk at night, you know, but I
think that's.
I think they got a core hereand in.
If you treat them as adevelopment company, 30
concentration with one customeris not unusual, because they

(26:20):
probably got a hold of thatdeveloped.
It worked with the clientcustomer to get a product, so
that doesn't really bother me IfI look at it as a development
stage.
If I look at it as gee, we'reready to give you the keys and
turn it over.
No, then it is.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
All right.
What else they're selling?
What are they going to need?
Who's going to need?
Okay, Josh.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
So, I have two ideas on that one, to talk about
Like Rick said, we're dealingwith some folks that are this is
not uncommon to have a highcustomer concentration One way
to flip it on its head.
And hey, we're not actuallygoing to sell the whole business
, we're going to sell therelationship with this one
customer.
We're going to set up a, awe're going to, we're going to
go to one of our competitors andsay, hey, we want out, we have

(27:11):
this great customer and we thinkyou can do a great job.
We're going to do anintroduction.
Maybe we just do a transfer ofthis one customer over to you.
Um, sometimes we're working withsome companies that have they
have three customers, right,like, well, you can't really
sell a business for threecustomers, but you can sell the
relationship and you can say,hey, don't, don't look at me
like a business, that's amoney-making machine on its own,

(27:32):
but look at this great, greatrelationship I have.
How much would you pay for that?
So if you kind of can split thething, like flip the strategy
on its head, there might be anopportunity to get around the

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Okay, we're going to flip the script here a little
bit.
They call them tops tired oldpeople.
He just called me and says Iwant to sell now.
I'm running out of gas, I'mready to get it on the market.
What are the next steps?
What do we do?
Let me suck it out.
Put your team together.

(28:10):
So, if there's something thatnecessitates a sale right now,
what are the next steps that heneeds to?

Speaker 17 (28:19):
take Hi Marcus Johnson with Edward Jones.
I think if it's at that pointwhere I need to sell and there
hasn't been a conversation onthat wealth gap, it's maybe
having a really transparent,frank conversation on okay, it
doesn't matter what the wealthgap is, this is what we got,
what does that rest of life looklike?

(28:40):
And create that vision based onthis call it new information
that I'm selling.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Okay, what does the vision look like?
Right, marcus is one of the.
He's one of the chapter leaders.
I didn't get a chance tointroduce him, but he's one of
the sponsors in chapter.
On the chapter leadership Okay,what else?
What's the next step?
I mean, he's got to sellsponsors in chapter.
Uh, on the chapter leadership.
Okay, what else?
What's the next step?
I mean, he's got a cell.
What does he need?
Cpa okay, so I'm gonna put heneeds a team cpa, the cpa that's

(29:22):
been doing his books for 30years, you think Maybe not.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
Okay, let's hear it.
And of course you know I'mgoing to go this route.
Patrick McMillan again.
So the Q of E guy, get a sellside quality of earnings.
It will open your eyes and helpyou look at it from a outside
perspective and how they'regoing to view your financials.

Speaker 8 (29:49):
Lisa Laundrie, with Edward Jones.
You've got to have the CPA, afinancial advisor, your M&A
attorney, whether it's aninvestment banker, all in that
team and you got to haveeverybody working together,
everybody being able to providethe information that everybody
else needs.
I mean like, for example, let'ssay you're the CPA and and

(30:13):
you've got that.
You know you were talking aboutthe charitable earlier.
Let's say, we look at a CRT,right, let's look at a
charitable remainder trust, andwe go ahead.
We get the valuation from thevaluation person.
We go ahead and we get the CPAinvolved so they can get all of
the charitable remainderformulas put together.
You get the stock into the CRTNow, once you've gone through

(30:38):
the sale now your financialadvisor is going to be able to
or once the sale of the shareshappens inside the CRT, your
financial advisor can then goahead and create the investment
plan for both you as the currentbeneficiary, as well as setting
things up with the remainderbeneficiary, based on the
formulas from the CPA.

(30:58):
And now you're getting a paymentthat you didn't have to pay the
tax immediately upon the salebecause it got into the CRT.
You're being able to pull outyour annual whatever and you're
getting capital gains rates andwhatever's happening, because
you've got the stuff that thefinancial advisor is managing on
the inside with the CPAs.

(31:18):
You got to have everybodytalking together.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Thank you, lisa, and I just want to put in a little
clarification.
So we're giving broad advice inbroad strokes.
So I suggest that you talk toan expert about these things.
Right, we're not.
The purpose of this is not tobe specific, but to give you
good ideas and then to go toyour advisor your financial
advisor for the personalfinancial plan, an attorney, a

(31:46):
tax attorney for a CRT orwhatever it is.
But go to the expert and it'sgoing to take a team of experts,
tom.

Speaker 15 (31:55):
Tom Holt, carson Holt, I would just say you need
to figure out who yourquarterback is going to be.
So, as you're looking atassembling that team, who is it
that's going to be the one thatis directing traffic and it
actually could be almost any ofthose providers, depending on if
you're out of gas.
You're not looking for thevalue acceleration, you're

(32:17):
looking at risk mitigation,you're looking at organization,
but who's organizing the stepsof the process?
And so that, as you're lookingout at either the next month or
months that are coming ahead,that you've got very clear
marching orders for each personon the team and how they're
going to coordinate and who isreporting to whom?

Speaker 1 (32:37):
That's great, great insight.

Speaker 10 (32:40):
And can I ask, without a mic, is out of gas,
money or energy?

Speaker 12 (32:47):
Yes, yes, he just needs to sell, right?

Speaker 1 (32:49):
yeah, you know what?
That's a really good point.
Dave, um, dave's asking whattype of gas are we talking about
?
Money, right, or like?

Speaker 10 (32:58):
or or does he even care?

Speaker 1 (33:00):
anymore.
Yeah, or or energy, or what Isee is health.
I'll have a heart attack.
I've got one right now and he'slike, if I don't sell this
business, my wife's going tokill me.

Speaker 10 (33:13):
We get those, but go ahead, elaborate, please uh,
because his top two things werebest price and then care for the
team, and now he has an urgentmoment or that's flipping that
and putting speed of sale to thetop, diminishing the other two.
I'm just looking at the otheroption.
Sometimes, look, talk to youradvisor, but they may be able to

(33:36):
talk you off a cliff a littlebit and say there's a way for
you to exit the business.
Still keep your ownership, puta plan in place for that two to
three years that it takes toorganize it just perfectly.
But you can be fully away, takecare of your health, do
whatever else is needed,depending on what the need was.
And if it was a cash one, itwas going to come out anyway,
and so this doesn't do goodeither way.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
Patrick McMillan.
Again, I want to kind ofcombine these two comments here
with the caveat, first to sayit's it may sound overwhelming
right now because, yes, we'regiving you a lot of general
advice.
First thing, regarding who'sgoing to quarterback it.
If you and correct, I meanespecially a SEPA is very good,
you know understanding theprocess and quarterbacking.

(34:28):
If you hire a, an investmentbanker and sorry, not and or a
business broker, typically theycan act as the quarterback and
so that way, and they've donethis process multiple times, and
so that can help guide youalong, and they've done this
process multiple times, and sothat can help guide you along.
Number two, regarding gettingout of gas, out of energy and

(34:49):
everything too, I would want to.
There's a lot of.
There's a comment called sellerfatigue, which is where, oh my
gosh, we're doing all of this.
It's exhausting.
Then that's where your teamaround you.
We're not therapists, but a lotof times we play one on TV,
although we don't want to.
We can help you get across that.

(35:10):
The conversation that I wouldwant personally to have with you
is what are your specific goals?
And we can give you advice andideas, but it's really
ultimately going to be yourdecision and we can help you
understand what the consequencesare of each of those, to help
you determine what the best pathfor you would be.
For example, cash you know highvalue and taking care of your

(35:33):
employees.
There's a bunch of differentways you can accomplish that.
When you sell, you can retainsome ownership, for you know you
can roll equity you can do youknow different things earn outs,
you know stuff to where you cansay, okay, well, I can get more
money later if I retain part ofthe ownership.
So there's multiple ways to dothat and that's what you know

(35:54):
types of things that we candiscuss as well.
Thank you.

Speaker 12 (36:02):
Good afternoon.
I think at this point.
My name is Maxwell Walters.
I work for a DVD.
We're a lower middle marketinvestment bank.
The three things that I thinkyou should kind of that are
coming to my mind, based off ofwhat Patrick said and a few
other comments.
One healthcare is blowing upright now from an acquisition
perspective.
There's a ton of money in themarket buying things.

(36:24):
I don't know enough about yourtechnology, but I'm curious as
to what it does and if it is notattractive to someone building
a platform with a bunch of yourclients already as a part of
their portfolio.
So your ability to be strategicin terms of bringing
functionality to someone that'sa bigger fish is maybe worth

(36:46):
diving into.
I think also, the more that Icould learn about your
technology, the more it would bean opportunity to look at that
as a significant value driver.
How much of it is protected?
Is any of it protected?
Is there IP involved or is itjust really a software product
that can be competed with prettyeasily, but that kind of like?

(37:09):
I said three things thatcombined them all into two, but
thank you for sharing your storyand giving us this opportunity
to chat.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
All right.
So they brought up investmentbanker and this company is large
enough in our order wouldrequire an investment banker to
help himself typically dotransactions.
What do you want to say,maxwell?
Twenty five million and above,or?

Speaker 12 (37:29):
Yeah, I think it's like you're even revenue for
different ways to look at it.
Like north of five millionrevenue is an interesting point,
so he asked the revenue bands.
Our firm typically focuses ontwo to ten million EBITDA.
We're in the lower middlemarket, but you have a $31
million valuation.
That's the expected transaction, absolutely something that an
investment banker and there's afew here in Utah that can

(37:51):
absolutely service that.
But to the point aboutquarterback, it's really all of
these nights at the round tableare necessary and they all play
a strategic role in helping youland this plane.
I think the biggest gap, havinglistened to the conversation
today, is what do you want?
Because 31 million is going todisappear, unfortunately way too
quickly.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yep, it goes fast.
Okay, I got time for one morecomment and then we're going to
vote.
John, anyone, Anyone, have anyother thoughts?
Okay, let's turn the cameraback.
I got to put Maxwell.
I put him on the end about aninvestment banker.

(38:33):
Okay, so these are the.
These are the nine things thatwe suggest, and I think the
biggest one we have is you gotto get your team going and I
would suggest that you talk toat least two people, Every
person.
You talk to your attorney, yourCPA, your investment banker.
Just talk to two.
Find the one that you feel likeis going to do the best job and
that you're going to work with.
Now let's ask the businessowners, Bill and Ted, if they

(39:01):
have any final questions for usbefore we vote or any comment,
anything that they have anyinput.

Speaker 7 (39:10):
I need to give a second.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Okay, we'll give them just a minute here.
I want to hear from them see ifthey have any other input.
Rick, I have two?

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah, how many people will join?

Speaker 1 (39:22):
in next month.
Next month oh, for those thatmissed it next month is going to
be about LOIs what to do whenyou get an LOI.
We're going to dissect an LOI.
We're going to look at what itshould have, what it shouldn't
have.
We're going to introduce you toan AI tool that Josh built.
So next month is going to beall about LOIs and Cinderella

(39:42):
and what Cinderella is, I don'tknow yet, but it's going to all
about LOIs and Cinderella andwhat Cinderella is.
I don't know yet, but it'sgoing to be about LOIs and
Cinderella.
Now he's a little nervous.
Okay, no comments from the guys.
Okay, I think we're good.
Now I wanted to vote.
Does he build or does he sell?

(40:05):
Okay, how many people thinkthat, based on what you've read
here not the scenario where he'sa tops and has to sell right
now tired old people right whatyou have in the material how
many people think that he shouldgo ahead and exit and fly off
into the sunset with this thirtymillion dollars and be okay?

Speaker 4 (40:28):
yes why not both?
Why can't you do a partial saleand continue building?

Speaker 1 (40:38):
that's a really good one, and I don't know that my
technology and pen are built forthree.
All right, we'll do three,because Patrick wants to do
three.
Okay, how many people thinkthat he should just sell?

Speaker 4 (40:59):
and be okay.
One, two, raise them up so Ican see Be confident, be
confident.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
I'm in the sell side.
I'm going to say four, five,okay.
Five people are saying that heshould sell.
Our hybrid option that Patricktalked about is sell a partial
right, a carve out.
How many people are liking that?
One, two.
We have five of those.
That's interesting.
We have a tie, okay, partialOkay.

(41:30):
And how many people think thathe should build A whole bunch?
One, two, three, four, five,six, seven, eight, okay.
So the consensus of the groupis that he really ought to build
it, keep it and build it, cleanit up, work on customer

(41:51):
concentration.

Speaker 12 (41:51):
Yes, maxwell, hold on, let me give you a mic Talk
about it.
But like there may be room forthis group to become an acquirer
and use what they've alreadyhave as the beginning of their
own little platform and go aftergrowth through acquisition to
achieve a new enterprise valuethat's significantly higher and
ultimately covers other exposure.

(42:12):
Reduce their concentration,give them more, you know,
pipeline.
Interesting perspective, but Ithink that's why I ended up in
the build, because maybe there'smore here to grab onto.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
So that's interesting that you brought that up,
because that's what he's beendoing.
It wasn't in the notes here,but he acquired a couple of
businesses over the last coupleof years.

Speaker 17 (42:41):
He's been in the acquisition mode, so that could
be.
Number four is acquire and thensell Marcus Johnson.
Again with Edward Jones I see ahuge opportunity for 90-day
sprints looking at the lowesthanging fruit and just every 90
days reassessing should we build, should we sell?
And of course we're doing avery surface level view of it,
but just seems like there mightbe some low hanging fruit where

(43:02):
we could increase that valuationpretty quickly.

Speaker 7 (43:08):
Okay.

Speaker 14 (43:10):
Yes.

Speaker 7 (43:10):
I have a chat on here from the attendees online One
to sell, three to the partialand four to the bill.
My time.
So you got six, eight andtwelve now okay, six on the
partial six on the cell okay notadding six, I'm not giving you

(43:35):
the total, okay.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
And then eight on the partial okay and 12 on the on
the bill now number four wehaven't, we can't vote on this.
But this is what, um?
They're talking about maximalmarkets where you acquire right,
become an acquirer, diversifymore, diversify your customer
base and you have a betteroffering a couple years down the

(43:58):
road.

Speaker 18 (43:58):
Brilliant, yeah, yeah, savannah I would also,
even if you're deciding to build, what's wrong with getting your
quarterback now?
Start planning for your futurea few years in ahead.
Get your uh people in line.
Get prepared for your salethree years before.
If you're going to build it forthree years, have that
quarterback those people thatare going to guide you to where

(44:20):
you need to get to go, where youneed to go for your sell.
Even if you're going to buildor sell, I think building that
team now is a good priority.

Speaker 13 (44:29):
Yeah, Mitch, yeah.
The only reason I didn't votefor sell, I mean based on, I
think, the ownership makeup.
It seems like an exit issomething that they're going to
want in the next I would saynear future to want in the next,
I would say near future, right,but it sounded like, just based

(44:49):
on the voting, that it's likesell now, just like get out now,
which I don't think is a goodidea.
But I do think everything theydo moving forward should be with
a mindset on selling at somepoint, right.

Speaker 5 (45:04):
Go ahead.

Speaker 19 (45:04):
Yeah, thank you Thank you, so I got here a
little late.
I don't know if I missedanything.
I I'm curious.
Your name oh yeah, I'm aaronlarson, with elevate and exit um
.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
So I I'm curious why they want to sell and if they,
if there's a need for them tosell sooner than later so the
the thing that was brought up tome was he's got this customer
concentration issue and that'swhat keeps him up at night right
.
He's like my business is worth$30 million now.
It could be worth $10 milliontomorrow.

Speaker 19 (45:38):
So he's worried about that.
One big customer falling out,that's the biggest thing right
there.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
And the second thing is the fear of loss.
What is that?
Anyway, the fear of losing outf-o-l-o right and fomo, yeah,
and.
And he's just wondering well,gee, maybe I could build it to
60 million, put more effort intoit in another, you know three
or four years, I got 60 millioninstead of instead of 30.

(46:03):
Those are the two main concernshe has.

Speaker 19 (46:05):
My one other question if that's okay is if he
were to sell now, what would hedo next?

Speaker 1 (46:13):
They want to do charity work for their church.
They want to change their dailydemo and what they're doing and
just kind of step off the bus.

Speaker 19 (46:23):
Okay, can I ask yeah , go ahead.
Just because I just wanted alittle bit of clarification.
So so my thoughts on that areif, if what's keeping up him up
at night right now is is hiscustomer concentration, that's
also going to be what drops hisvaluation as well.
And even if he loses that bigcustomer, okay, like there's

(46:43):
more, there's more clients outthere, there's more people he
can go get.
If if you know that does happen, which you know that's not fun
but if he wants to, if he wantsa bigger valuation and that's
and that's his worries, you knowthat's what's going to slash
his valuation down ultimatelywhen he goes off and sells it.
But if he, if he just wants toget out, then I would say, just

(47:04):
just do it.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Thank you, that's really good input.
Josh, did you have something?

Speaker 12 (47:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Just to give more context to the hey, you know to
sell or build.
I think it comes down to howthe customers think of you and
your, your product and yourrelationship.
If, if they think of you as atax tech stack stack that's
providing automation, that's asmall moat.
But if they think of you aslike hey, you take care of a
large part of my business andthe value I get is way, way more
than what I put in and you'reindispensable, then you start

(47:34):
okay, how do I build that?
How do I get more people intothat situation where they can't
go without me?
So I think that the strength ofthe relationship, customer
relationship, is a huge factoron sell versus build.
And if he's losing sleep on it,it might be the indication
already.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
But yeah, I like that , thanks.
So I I want to emphasize whatmarcus said 90 day sprints
that's really the valueacceleration methodology that
teaches that.
Epi scott snyder's gonna killme for not bringing it up any
sooner.
Marcus had to bring it up, butbut that's where you set a goal

(48:07):
and for 90 days you hyper focuson that goal or goals it's
usually one or two and then atthe end of that time you
reassess Okay, we're going toswitch gears now.
Great input everyone.
Thank you.
Can we put the camera back orno?
Let's put it up here for aminute.

Speaker 7 (48:23):
We would yeah, I do have one question.
Okay, one question, go aheadhere.
Why is owner so focused on sell?

Speaker 1 (48:40):
What issue in his life.
Use this as 90 day sprint focusfor him and his leadership team
.
Okay, so we'll see what he has.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
I don't know, I could .

Speaker 1 (48:57):
You guys are curious, right, I have to tell you the
business owners I spoke to bothof them this morning, or all of
them today.
They were so excited for thisevent.
They were jazzed.
I mean they were like, yeah,I'm so excited Because they live
this every day and they wake upin the morning do I build, do I
sell, what do I do?
And to just have some help.
They were really excited aboutit.

(49:18):
Oh, hold on, the business ownerjust called me it looks like on
my phone, so we'll see what wegot.
We're a little over time, buthold on, we got a live one.

(49:41):
Hey, bill or Ted.

Speaker 5 (49:46):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Bill okay, okay, sounds good.
I'll ask him that question.
Okay, I was wrong.
It's first time ever, but firsttime today.

(50:17):
About third time today, themain thing that's keeping him up
is he's worried about AI andwhat AI is going to do to reduce
jobs or to change the industry.
That's the main thing that'skeeping him, not the customer
concentration.
It was that, but now AI iscoming out.

Speaker 17 (50:39):
Marcus Johnson, I think to address all of those
things that are keeping him upat night is what's going to
derail a potential transactionand exit, and so finding in
those 90-day sprints, findingout what maybe those solutions
could be, would add a lot morefuel to maybe evaluation in an
eventual exit, even if those arestill issues.
Addressing those ahead of timebecause that's going to be

(51:02):
discovered in that discoveryprocess.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Thank you, Marcus.
So he's saying hit it head on,spend 90 days to decide and at
the end of that 90 days to makeyour decision on what you're
going to do.
Okay, one other thing, then wegot to get to the next one.

Speaker 15 (51:17):
Just real quick.
I would just really dig into AIand get some consultants and
understand what the trajectoryof your industry is, and is
there a way you can leverage AIto accelerate your business, as
opposed to having it besomething that's a threat?
I think most every industry isgoing to be significantly
disrupted in ways that we're notanticipating with AI, and so to

(51:39):
just to lean into it, use theenergy of AI to move you forward
, rather than be somethingthat's that you're fearful of,
and it still may be somethingthat that motivates and said,
hey, I'm going to get a highervaluation now than I will after
these AI developments are madein the future, and so that may
actually be something thatpoints you to grow or to sell.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
All right, thank you.
All right, One more but then wegot to go.
Okay, lisa's saying she cancurse, hold on, we got to know
who you are.
Just tell us who you are, realquick Lisa.

Speaker 16 (52:12):
I'm Lisa Schneider, private wealth manager Raymond
James.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
All right, that's Lisa.
She's kind of shy, she lovesmicrophones shy.
But Okay, the next one.
They've been waiting, patientlywaiting.
My timer went off 10 minutesago, but we're going to get
going.
Okay, let me tell you about thenext one.
This is the prepare gate.
When I spoke to this individual,he had made up his mind that he

(52:38):
was going to sell.
This is an internal sale and Iwant to spend.
We're going to switch it up alittle bit because he was dead
set, as he and his brother andthey have six kids between them
working in the business, and sothe kids are making a
contribution.
They feel like they can keepthe business and step out and

(53:00):
let the kids run the business,and it throws off enough cash
flow that they're feeling likethey can make a decent living
doing that.
So what changed was he went ona vacation and his brother went
on a vacation same time.
They hadn't done this in awhile and their phones would not

(53:20):
quit ringing.
The kids were fightingSo-and-so, didn't do their job.
This is going on and he cameback and he's like Rick, this
isn't going to work.
It's like we got to talk aboutselling.
So we're going to talk about aninternal sale first, but not
spend most of our focus.
We're going to run down thesame path that we did with the
last one and talk about a saleand what he needs to do to get

(53:43):
ready.
Okay, so on an internal sale.
Let me go back here to thequestions.

Speaker 4 (53:47):
But is this the one that had the recent development?

Speaker 1 (53:51):
That's the recent development.
That is probably going to be anoutside sale unless they can
fix this Now.
Internal sales are really hardbecause of the family dynamic.
For instance, I have a businessowner that says they want to do
an internal sale.
First thing I say is never bethe bank Right.
Can you picture Christmas andyour son owes you $2 million and

(54:15):
you're buying him Christmaspresents and the feeling between
the two of you and your son'snot going to feel like coming to
the party, You're not going tofeel like feeding him right, and
this is your son.
This isn't some stranger.
So the relationships are morethey're what?
Delicate, delicate.
They're close to the heart, sothey have to be handled

(54:35):
differently.
So anyway, let's look at whatdoes he need to do on an
internal sale?
Key concerns on an internalsale yes, David.

Speaker 10 (54:46):
David Gilliland, I've done a lot of family
internal sales stuff.
The thing that is first is theyneed to start serving a vision
that's beyond the familygathering place at work.
They need to say what are wereally about?
What are we willing tosacrifice for?
And any family member who can'tget behind building the

(55:06):
business to do that and impactit.
Now's the time to help themfind a new place to go and grow
and spread their wings.
If they don't do that, it'sgoing to fall apart.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Wow, how about that that maybe you need to get rid
of some of the kids?
Well, one help I was given.

Speaker 7 (55:22):
Here is yes the.
Any sale, internal or external,is about six to eight years out
oh okay, so they have some time.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
That's good to know.
Thank you, unless the kids killeach other in the meantime.
So one thing I want to bring upis, if you're thinking about
selling, go on vacation, turnyour phone off right To business
owners.
That's a great test.
I hadn't thought about thatbefore.
30 days, two weeks, go, turnyour phone off and see what
wrecks you have.
When you come back, see if youhave a business.

Speaker 16 (55:57):
Starting with vision really important and then
breaking it down into actualroles and responsibilities and
working on that internalorganizational structure and the
culture within.
And that's probably going torequire a very skilled outside
consultant that knows how tonavigate that in a family

(56:18):
business setting.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Lisa.
Do you know anyone that doesthat?
I do, okay, so reach out toLisa.

Speaker 16 (56:30):
Clients.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Okay, call you.
She'll get you hooked up.
Okay, lisa.

Speaker 8 (56:38):
Lisa Laundrie, edward Jones, along those lines.
In my old CPA firm we used tohave rule number one which was
all kids are rotten and peoplewould look at us and go but but?
But I said no, not everybody'sa mother, father, brother,
sister, aunt, uncle, but we'reall a kid and we all have that
little selfish tendency.
And rule number two is alldocuments are written because of

(56:59):
rule number one.
Right, we all have that thing.
So we're just recognizing thatwe're all going to have that,
those moments of, of selfishness, that those moments of but he's
not doing what I want, you know, kind of a thing.
And so all documents are arewritten because of rule number
one.
And then that's where thatvision, that's where that

(57:19):
internal structure, that's wherethat organizational chart,
that's where the roles andresponsibilities that's going to
be.
How does somebody get out ifthey change their mind?
All of that has got to be putdown.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Thank you, Tom.

Speaker 15 (57:35):
Continuing on that theme, just piggybacking on
those comments, I'm actuallyjust thinking through.
I've had a number of family inmy own business and that you get
emotions that are involved withfamily and you get
relationships that predate thebusiness oftentimes or that were
separate from it.

(57:55):
And so, just going back havingan accountability chart so that
you're it's very clear who doeswhat and how you measure the
success of a role.
So if someone picked, ifsomeone takes on a role that you
have defined measurements anddeliverables for that role, that
that determines.
A number determines whetherthey're successful or not, not

(58:16):
how you feel about it, notwhether someone else there feels
good or they just got apromotion and why.
But if you have a clear visionI love the EOS framework for
that part or scaling up, orthere's lots of different
methods you can use to build aframework around your company

(58:38):
that what you're doing is thatyou are building a very clear
vision of where we are now,where we're going, how we're
going to get there and then whoare the people that are
responsible for those roles.
I think one of my favoritethings when we first started off
EOS was that they made us do anaccountability chart and in our
heads.
We're already filling in thenames of who those people are,
but they made us stop and saywhat are the responsibilities,
what are the roles that need tobe filled, without regard to who

(59:00):
the human being is?
And so you define the role, youdefine what the pieces are and
then at the end you start to seedo we have the right people to
go in the right seats for thoseroles?
And then, on an ongoing basis,that there are quarterly
conversations, that you'reactually holding people
accountable to, whatever thosemetrics they were that were set

(59:20):
up, and so I think that that canhelp with the family dynamic of
entitlement or infighting amongsiblings or cousins, where
there's really clearexpectations and you either met
those or you didn't.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Thank you, Tom, and text messages from everybody too
.

Speaker 9 (59:44):
John, if this was our project, we'd ignore the kids,
because the problem isn't withthe kids, the problem is with
the dads.
That's where the firstcorrection needs to be, because
of what they tolerate, hold themic a little closer, sorry.
With a business, you're eitherselling it or you're buying it.

(01:00:05):
If you come to me and offer tobuy my business and I don't, I
just bought it for that sameprice.
But it's a single-cell organism.
It functions the way that theowners want it to function.
If I have problems in apersonal relationship, it takes
two people or more to solve it.
We all gotta get on the samepage.

(01:00:27):
In a business we don't havethat.
It's a different dynamic andwhen we bring the family dynamic
and treat it like a family in abusiness, you're going to have
this stuff here.
You listed the kids, the age.
They're young.
I don't know what theirpositions are.

(01:00:47):
They're probably not grunts, Iwould imagine.
And with successful parents,their kids often think they were
born on third base and thenspend the rest of their lives
telling everybody they hit atriple.
So I would start with parentsand I would say let's define

(01:01:10):
what we really want here andlet's be brutally honest.
Are those kids capable of doingit?
Are the kids happy in doing it?
The conflict between the kids,between the siblings and the
cousins, might just simply bethey're not happy there either.

Speaker 14 (01:01:49):
But anyway, that's where I would start.
Great Thank you, great Thankyou.
Some of my business partnersare family and when we chat we
go into a different room andwe're like I'm not your family
member today, I'm your businesspartner and it has to be a very
distinct separation.
And each of those kids, if theydecide that that kid actually
wants it and they're not feelingpressured, they need to have
their own trajectory andtimeline of the things they're

(01:02:11):
going to do to establish theskills that they personally need
for that EOS role that they'retaking on.
And if they're not going to bethe key person there but they
want to be like an underling oran assistant, that's fine.
But we still have to have thetrajectory and we have to
understand what their rolereally is going to be and how to
develop them into the maturitythey'll need.

Speaker 16 (01:02:32):
Love that Roles responsibility, accountability,
accountability, all day long Umokay.
I'm reading through again thesheet and I have a qualitative
and a quantitative question.
Rick, um or Rick, and the group.

(01:02:52):
I don't know which owner, whichbrother filled this out, but
I'm a little mystified, puzzling, why the owner couldn't
remember the valuation of itscompany.
It's a little bit of a red flag.
So are we so?
overwhelmed by family dynamics,that we don't know the value of
our company.

(01:03:13):
I find that curious and it justmakes me wonder about the
dynamics inside that an ownerthat's probably put blood, sweat
and tears into this for a longtime couldn't remember.
And then I'm seeing some prettyrapid growth here.
So 1.4 million valuation in 04and estimated now to nine.

(01:03:38):
It's really rapid.
So there's a lot going on thereunder the hood Some really
really fast growth.
A couple of brothers who can'ttake a vacation because the
wheels fall off the bus theseguys need to shore up some
things.
These guys need to shore upsome things and I'm going to go

(01:04:02):
back to internal structure andgetting into some real
disciplined operationalstructuring of the organization.
And that's probably their firstcouple or years' worth of
90-day sprints.

Speaker 14 (01:04:15):
Isn't that more than three years old, or is that
only six?
We don't have much sufficient.
Ten years of clean finances,yep 90-day sprints.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Yeah, they're at least 10 years old.
Thank you, Lisa.
So go ahead Then I've got somequestions from that.

Speaker 8 (01:04:30):
The one question that I would say is, owners are only
45, and they're saying theyhave five to 10 years that they
want to, you know, let the kidsgrow and mature and learn and
all of that, and then they'regoing to step away.
There's nothing in here aboutwhat they or at least that I can
remember reading about whatthey're going to do, and so
there's that part of me thatsays my brother and I would

(01:04:54):
continue to oversee the financesfrom a 30,000 foot view For how
long?
And how long are the dadsplanning on being hands-on slash
, hands-off slash, involved inthe politics of running the
company?
And if they don't have the lifeplans in place, then I worry

(01:05:17):
that from a family standpoint,the kids are going to get to the
point where they're 35, 40, anddad is still there and present,
and maybe I worry that they maynot be able to let go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
She's asking if they have an internal external CEO
and I don't.
I don't know the answer to that, lisa.

Speaker 16 (01:05:51):
Lisa Schneider here.
They're operating right now atthe 30 to 50,000 foot level on
their finances and they needsomebody down there with their
hands on the wheel with theirfinances, talking to them every
week, if not every day.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Okay, their ages are 50 and 56.

Speaker 19 (01:06:22):
Aaron Larson.
So I've still got a couplequestions, but I I would say
this if you've got six to eightyears before you're gonna exit
um, and and you want to pass iton to your kids, if that's
something that that, as as oftoday, you want to do and the
kids are excited about, thenthat gives you time to work with
them and to train them up, makesure they understand everything
and make sure there's a desirethere.

(01:06:44):
Like I think it's been saidbefore, it's a lot easier to
sell to a third party than tofamily.
But with the timeline you have,I mean, that gives you time to
make sure everything is workingand things are good.
The other thing is, you knowlast second, if the kids decide
to back out and they're notsuper interested in that, or
there is conflict and you justdon't want the business to be a

(01:07:04):
conflict in the family, it'sreally easy to well, not easy,
but it's easier to go off andsell to a third party and then
just split the proceeds howeveryou want.
If you want to, you know, giveit to your kids or just leave it
in the will or however thatworks, but that's that just
makes a lot easier than thanhaving them try to go and figure
out how to split the business.
It's just you do it withnumbers and cash.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
So what, what Aaron brought up there's a really good
, it's a really good point, andthat is to the kids that really
want it, and I, I think, I thinkit's important to ask them,
right, do you want it?
This is what we're thinkingabout.
Do you ask them, and maybethey'd rather have the money?
Okay, we've got somebody thathas a question okay, a couple

(01:07:47):
things.

Speaker 7 (01:07:48):
So, going back earlier, when we were talking
about what's fair, somebodycommented fair isn't always
equal and equal isn't alwaysfair.
And then there was somebodythat had raised their hand.
Do you want to go ahead andmake your comment now?
Okay, let's see.

Speaker 11 (01:08:10):
Hey, how's it going.

Speaker 7 (01:08:12):
Good.

Speaker 11 (01:08:13):
Joe Walker with Edward Jones from Fort Worth
Texas.
Thanks for putting this on.
This is really really cool.
Uh, I was just reading throughthe uh, the case study and, uh,
uh, like others have mentioned,the kids are young.
Uh, it sounds like they theowners, you know either knew

(01:08:35):
from experience or just had agood gut feeling that this was
going to be a problem.
So I'm just wondering, you knowwhy?
It sounds like they're throwingin the towel really really
quick.
And the one thing they haven'timplemented in that the case
study mentioned or at least Iassume they haven't implemented

(01:08:55):
is that non-family membermanager that the kids are going
to were to be reporting to, withthat non-family member manager
reporting to them.
So I was just going to see whatanybody thought about that,
about them maybe hanging inthere and making that
implementation, unless they justknow the kids aren't cut out
for this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
So a non-family member is manager.
Is what Joe's talking about,right?

Speaker 11 (01:09:21):
Yeah, and that, and that was in the case study that
they were, that that was part oftheir plan.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Yeah, we need to define, I would say, a board of
directors.
Board of directors reallyhelpful.

Speaker 5 (01:09:32):
What spouses?

Speaker 15 (01:09:33):
Yeah, it was.
It said that the if they diedit was going to be their spouses
, and I was going to justchallenge that.
Are the spouses.
Hold on, go ahead, tom.
So one of the notes I had seensaid that, in the event of the
two of them dying, that theirspouses would be the trustees.
How would you determine whowill run the business after you

(01:09:54):
pass away?
For now the trustees will runit wives, then kids and that
just feels like a recipe fordisaster.
That, if you've, unless thewives are actively involved in
the business, that that's goingto be a huge step for them to
get involved and then for themto be aligned on how to do that,

(01:10:15):
and that, just knowing momsthat they're going to each have
clear loyalties for their ownoffspring that are, that are
presumably the, the kids thatare working in the business, and
so, anyway, that's, I think theidea of having a non-family
member, that's, that is, the onethat's actually managing the
company, sounds like a muchsmarter call than than having
something where you're pullingthe the, the spouses, in.

(01:10:36):
Actually managing the companysounds like a much smarter call
than having something whereyou're pulling the spouses in
and the likelihood is that oneor the other of them is going to
die, not both of them.
And so also, what does thatlook like?
And what does the managementlook like if one of you is gone
and the other one's trying toexit, so having some clarity
around that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
So I want to bring something up here, and that is
because I sell companies andthat's the angle I always take
right, Whether they sell totheir kids or whether they sell
externally, these are going tobe issues If I've got a company
and I have six of their kidsworking in the business it's
going to affect your valuation.
It's going to affect valuation,I don't know that I can sell it.

(01:11:17):
I'll be honest unless they haveclearly defined roles, unless
they know what they're doing,unless I'm absolutely certain
they don't want it right,they're not going to quit,
they're going to just leaveafter closing.
But that's a huge concern ifhe's doing an outright sale.
Is six their kids working inthe business?
That's's a lot.

(01:11:38):
That would.
I don't know.
I could gut the business reallyif all of them just decided to
leave and then they haveleverage and power to hold on.
Dustin, I think you'd raiseyour hand a while ago.
Sorry, I'll come right back.

Speaker 6 (01:11:50):
So, believe it or not , I've actually been the
non-family manager of a businessthat was doing about eight to
$10 million in revenue and therewere seven members of the same
family working in this companyand talk about awkward
conversations.

(01:12:11):
And you're the.
You're the person thateverybody, regardless of what
your title is.
You are going to become thehuman resources manager.
Everybody's going to go to youto want to talk about their
struggles and their anxieties.
And he's doing this, she'sdoing that.
So I lasted a year in that role.

(01:12:31):
You couldn't have paid meenough to stay in that business
because it was just so.
It was an emotional mess.
So, like the way I see it, isthis business, the kids either
need to learn how to worktogether or they need to get out
completely.
One of those things need tohappen for this business to be
successful, wow.

(01:12:52):
And there needs to be.
There needs to be some kind ofcommittee that the you know, the
, the two patriarchs can be on,but there needs to be like.
Somebody needs to be doing acompensation study, like a
third-party comp study.
The kids can't be having their,their comp set by their parents
.
That needs to be third-party.

(01:13:13):
So there's no arguments on onwho's getting paid what it's all
unbiased.
There's no arguments on who'sgetting paid what it's all
unbiased.
There's no favoritism.
Those are just a few thoughts.
I could write a book on it, butthis is a really delicate
situation to have that manypeople that tight in age trying
to all work together.

(01:13:33):
Good luck.

Speaker 18 (01:13:37):
All right, Hold on.
I was actually going toSavannah.
Say one thing is Wow, Good luckdeciding who wants to buy it.
But you're selling as a likekind of to a third party kind of

(01:13:58):
that setup.
But it is sort of an internalsell.
But separate it, separate it.
The kids are deciding who wantsto be the partner you're not
deciding who's what ownership.
It's the kids deciding who theywant to work with yep, somebody
over there yep, all right, thisguy all right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
He's been raising his hand for life.
He's got a sore shoulder fromholding it all.
Sorry, john, go ahead yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:14:21):
John Spiesman with 1% Better Leader.
Yeah, I was very much indisagreement with the gentleman
over there that both the twoowners need some help in setting

(01:14:42):
clarity and expectations.
They have six to eight years toreally invest in both their
leadership and in thedevelopment of these individuals
in their company, Asking a 20to 25 year old.
What they want, I don't think,is the right path.
You need to lay out the pathand see if they're willing to
follow, If they can develop andif they can demonstrate.

(01:15:04):
Then you have the person youcan have a conversation about
ownership with.
Right now, the problems need tobe worked on through working on
the business, and so they needsome external help.
But just one person in theretrying to be a ringleader is a
disaster, and so they need someexternal help.
But just one person in theretrying to be a ring leader is a
disaster.
I think they need.
They need some, some assistance, some coaching the owners, as

(01:15:26):
well as intensive development ofthe family members to see
whether they can put rubber tothe road.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
I love that Sounds like you've had some experience
with that, john doing it Okay,hold on Sean.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Sean Richards, Blue Sky Business Consulting.
First a question, then acomment.
Do I read this correctly?
Are two of these children?
Are they married to each other?
Are those a son or a son ordaughter-in-law, daughter,
son-in or what's that?
Because that's a whole notherlayer of challenge here with
this.
If they're actually married toeach other, does that?
It just says married and Idon't know if that means that

(01:16:08):
they're each married.
The others are single.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
I believe they're just married to outside married
okay um well, you know what itis utah.
Sometimes it's a little closewell, they're the same age.
So I thought, well, maybethey're hey, if we still get
divorced, we're still brotherand sister, so go ahead, true um
I this is going to sound just alittle bit dramatic, but I
would.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
I would be tempted to fire all of the children and
have them reapply and go througha process where, with this
internal structure, we're sayingthis is what the position
requires, these are the jobqualifications, these are and
I'm one that would encouragesome kind of a strengths
evaluation, skills evaluation,all of those kinds of things to

(01:16:48):
determine where does this pairup?
Because there's, as has beenmentioned, there are ways to
have them retain, to put itbluntly, the inheritance, the
money, part of it, but not getinvolved in the business and
mess that all up, because that'skind of what's happening.
So I would be tempted to firethem and say let's have you
reapply, let's put you in theright role.

(01:17:09):
If it's anywhere in the companythey may find that that's this
is not, you're not qualified forthis, you're not wanting to do
this.
So that's how I would approachit.
Qualified for this, you're notwanting to do this.
So that's how I would approachit.
It sounds a bit traumatic, butthat's uh, that we need to send
that message to the kids.
I liked the comment earlier,partly because it related to
baseball and I love baseball,but sometimes someone's standing
on third base.
They did not hit the triple andthey need these.

(01:17:29):
These good kids need to bereminded of that, yeah okay,
clarification.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Man, I'm wearing out a pair of shoes today getting
all the credit for all the steps.

Speaker 7 (01:17:44):
Okay, so on the kids, it is they are siblings and
cousins and two of the employeesare married to each other.
So two of the employees aretogether, so husband and wife.
So two of the employees aremarried to the kids.

(01:18:07):
Is that what I mean?

Speaker 10 (01:18:08):
no, no, no.
The employees, two of them arehusband and wife, they have a
son-in-law or daughter-in-lawyeah, oh man, this is getting
complex, okay, jerry's okay.
So nepotism is actually a greatway to run a business sometimes
you just have to play it right.
But it starts with a visionlevel that's different than what
we're talking about.
We're not talking about justfor this family, the way they've

(01:18:31):
set it up.
Their purpose for theirbusiness isn't just revenue and
profits.
They have a very differentpurpose.
So if we were doing the 90-daysprints, I'd take the first
90-day.
I would take those two ownersand their spouses who aren't in
the business need to get clearabout their purposes for their
family, what they care about,because they've been trying to
serve it through the business,which is fine.

(01:18:52):
But they have to get superclear about that and they should
do that sprint Becauseotherwise, otherwise, those two
are going to have battles everytime they try to implement any
of these things.
They're on the couch like thisis just not a happy thing.
So they have to get aligned,all four of them.
Next 90 day sprint get reallyclear on how the business is
going to serve those familypurposes, which may have to do

(01:19:13):
with people getting better andstronger outside of the business
.
Right that?
Why is this holding so-and-soback?
So they have a very clearconversation about that.
And then the purpose of thebusiness and how it serves.
But we keep trying to giveideas of how we're going to pull
the family out of this.
Family's pretty integral inthis.
There's a way to plan it theother way, and I know very big
businesses Mars candy bar,there's one for you that is a

(01:19:37):
family owned business.
Nepotism rules and you have toadmit they've done pretty well
Right and so you can do it.
You just have to be intentionalat a higher level and bring it
down through.

Speaker 7 (01:19:48):
Gotcha, thank you.
I'll build a team like thatOkay, hold on.
This will be quick.
So Tony said do the kids or thewives of future trustees want
the business as a legacy to growit and the reputation, or do
they want it for a lifestylebusiness?

(01:20:08):
If lifestyle only then sellaway from family or the
differences in kids could runinto the ground for the legacy.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Okay, we'll see what the answer is.
Okay, we had hands, mitch.

Speaker 13 (01:20:25):
That was very close to the comment I was going to
make, but kind of a little bitdifferent, but right on that
same line.
So it's a good segue.
If the kids, if the parentsdidn't have this business, would
the kids be like, all, gung-ho,let's start a uh, uh, this

(01:20:46):
business.
Um, they're doing, uh, cabinets, right, but should we, let's
start a cabinet business?
I don't think so.
Right, I don't.
I'm not getting that.
That feel that that it reallyis more of just an emotional
legacy, sort of thing.
Like hey, uh, our dad orgrandpa or whatever built this
and we want to be a part of it.

(01:21:07):
Um, but if they're not actuallyin it because they're
passionate about it, then I Idon't think it makes any sense
to have them be a part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
I had a couple in it.

Speaker 14 (01:21:24):
So we've talked a lot about the kid angle.
Does anybody mind if I bring uptwo other thoughts on here?
Okay, what it's about.
So Lisa alluded to the pointthat that revenue changed
dramatically from 2023 to 2024.
And I want to know why.
And I want to know what thatprojection, what caused that,
and if that's sustainable,because in 2023, you'll see that

(01:21:45):
it was, what was it?
Yeah, it was like half a million, and then 2000 beta, and then
2024, it was more than double.
So what caused that and is itmaintainable?
Um, so that's something Idefinitely want to explore.
And the other thing that I wantto explore, just because it's

(01:22:06):
passion, is their industry.
Now, their industry is cabinetmaking right, but the lumber
prices has changed dramaticallyin 2024.
Then Congress passed it so thatthe tariffs doubled at that
point and it caused a 12% raiseand increase on all of the wood,

(01:22:27):
which impacts it.
But with their market, they canpass that along to their people
I mean their customers, right.
However, with the new tariffsthat are coming out, it's going
to double that again and sothey're expecting another 13%
raise on the product for thecustomer.
Granted that industry, theyhave to keep building cabinets

(01:22:47):
right, but that is somethingthat we would be remiss to not
at least address when we'retalking about the exit plan and
the plan for the business andhow they're going to address
that, because that is a bigimpact on them and we have
another hand here.

Speaker 19 (01:23:04):
Okay, you're on so just another thing to think
about going back to the kids, um, and, and the comment, um that
was mentioned online by tom orum anyway.
But with this, with thisbusiness either being something
as a legacy or lifestylebusiness or whatever you want to
make it, do the kids just wantto take the money Like?

(01:23:30):
First of all, you need to knowwhat your business is worth.
So figuring out what thebusiness is worth, that's
important.
And then talking to them about,hey, is this money going to be
life-changing for you?
Obviously not give it to themin one lump sum.
I don't think that's important.
And then and then talking tothem about hey, is this money
going to be life-changing foryou?
Obviously not give it to themin one, you know, lump sum.
I don't think that's smarteither.
But but is that more worth itthan having the kids run the
business and have that be theircareer and have them be able to
go and work in this business forme the next 30 years, if you're

(01:23:51):
able to set it up Right?
And there's all this talk abouthey, can, can we set it up
right?
And and obviously there's a wayto do it?
Um, but, but obviously thinkingabout that as well is.
Is giving the kids the moneymore worth it, or is having them
in the business and having thisbe their their career in their
life?
Is that more worth it?

Speaker 7 (01:24:07):
so I think it's a big conversation to have okay okay
all right so one of them isTeresa from the Zoom said add
marriage counselors as part ofthe exit team.
The owners are all in on thebusiness, but how are they in
actual partnership outside ofthe business for lasting

(01:24:29):
retirement with their spouses?
So and then the owner said ourgoal is to provide a place where
kids can thrive.
Some kids are interested inlegacy.
To answer the question on theincome and the revenue, income
went up after stabilizing frommove into new building.
Current income expected toremain steady, as is barring bad

(01:24:51):
economy.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
Okay, we are just about out of time.
Okay, do I have another hand?
Just make sure John doesn'thave his hand up anymore.
I'm all nervous now.
Okay, any other comments?
We're at time now.
Okay, we're going to vote.
Do they keep it?
Oh, can we put the camera uphere?

(01:25:15):
It's on both.
It's on both.
On both, okay.

Speaker 7 (01:25:18):
I'll switch it to the .

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
Just, I'm running out of space.
You notice that I'm going tohave to micro.
Okay, option one who votes thatthey sell to an outside person
and just throw in the towel?
Do we have any votes for that,tom?
Okay, we have four.

Speaker 14 (01:25:41):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (01:25:44):
I think all of us were in agreement that the
vision, the internal structure,the documents written, all of
those things were going to haveto happen either way.
Anyway, so are we assuming thatall of that has happened before
we vote?

Speaker 10 (01:26:00):
are we six, eight years down the line, like they
said?

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
six, eight years down the line.
Let's do that.
Let's make the assumption six,eight years down the road, these
things are done.
That changes a big time right,because if they're done right,
you won't have to sell to anoutside person, do any sup okay.
So let's say right now, let'sjust back it up and say right

(01:26:25):
now, if they have to make adecision, what are they going to
do?

Speaker 7 (01:26:28):
it's sell, hands for sell are you doing the three the
same what?
Four what options are you doing, so I?

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
can.
Number one is sell to anoutside person.
Take it to an outside sale Okay, I have four for that and
online.
How many do we have?

Speaker 7 (01:26:43):
I haven't lost it yet .
I have to get all the options.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Option number one sell to an outside person.
I think that's probably thebest option.
Option number two is to eithersell or keep it internally.

Speaker 15 (01:27:04):
We're giving a hybrid option as, internally,
what's the hybrid?

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Okay, or a hybrid I'm going to call a carve-out.

Speaker 8 (01:27:18):
Yeah, of course, Hold on In order to make my
recommendation.
My question to the owners is dothey have a desire and the
ability, and do they believethat there's an ability for
everybody involved to walkthrough all of this without
blowing up the family?
Okay, you can't even go of thiswithout blowing up the family.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
Okay, you can even go on vacation without blowing up
the family.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
Yeah, they can't go on vacation without blowing up
the family.
They got a lot of work.

Speaker 8 (01:27:48):
Do you do these things or no?
Because if they're willing, I'dsay stay in.
If they're not willing, I'd saysell.
Does that make you selloutside'd?

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
say let me text him.
Yeah, yes, oh, the answer iscoming through.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
As we're waiting, I you should have all just
received an email.
We are expanding this chapter,these chapter events we're going
to.
We're going to have some moreevents down in Utah County.
So if you guys are interested,we're going to have uh.
This is every third thursday.
We're going to have every firsttuesday down there, most first
tuesdays.
We got four scheduled right now.
August 5th, we're doing anintroduction to exit planning at

(01:28:30):
the silicon slopes uh facility.
October 7th, november 4th,december 2nd.
So keep an eye out.
You'll get more emails, but ifyou have folks that are down
there and don't want to drive uphere, let them know and we
would like to expand down thatdirection as well.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
Thank you, and we have Vicki here.
She's been pretty quiet, but wehave Vicki here from Utah
Valley University who's going tobe partnering with us on these
events.
So welcome Vicki.
We're excited about that.
She's trying to be low key andjust avoid the limelight, right,
and I just bring her right up.
Okay, do we have an answer?
Yes, Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:29:07):
The answer says at the moment, no.
We would love to find a way tomake that happen, I think
keeping it together.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
What would happen?

Speaker 7 (01:29:17):
Helping the business build and grow and be a family
business.
Yes.

Speaker 14 (01:29:22):
Don't see a way of moving that family vision
forward, but they would love todo so if they could find someone
to facilitate it.

Speaker 7 (01:29:31):
That's a big question that I can't get an immediate
answer to.
I think so.
I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
The dream is to have it be what they want.
They'd love to give it to theirkids.
That's their dream.
The mars right.
They want to be the mars family.
They're just not sure aboutthat.
What that?

Speaker 7 (01:29:45):
and he says we like the idea of planning for
nepotism.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
If we can figure that out okay, they want to be like
the mars family.
Okay, number one sell to theoutside.
Just think they should go aheadand sell.
How?

Speaker 15 (01:29:58):
many hands.

Speaker 1 (01:30:01):
No, if they have to make a decision, they're
deciding now to sell, to prepareto sell to an outside party.
It's a decide gate.
They don't want to do that.
Well, it doesn't matter whatthey want.
What do we think we're voting?
Anybody think they should sell?
I heard your comments earlierwhich is they probably couldn't.

Speaker 15 (01:30:28):
Yeah, depending on how many I don't know how many
employees they they make up asmanagement.
So of of these individuals, the21 to 25, how crucial are they
in the business being able tofunction?
So if they all blew each otherup and you had to pull them out
of the business, is the businessstill viable?
Or if half of them?
I mean you get awkwardthanksgivings for a long time if

(01:30:52):
half the people just got firedfrom the company and that kind
of thing.
So it sounds to me like it'd bereally challenging the company
and that kind of thing.
So it sounds to me like it'd bereally challenging to sell
outside now as it is.
But if I could see somethingwhere a year or two down the
road, with a really carefullydesigned structure and
accountability, that that wouldbe possible.
But it sounds like right now itwould be a hot mess.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
Okay, so we have no votes for sell.
Hold on.
John has one comment.
We're going to have to hurrythough.

Speaker 9 (01:31:17):
I'll make it real.
I'll make it real quick.
Can we put a category up thereof gee?
I wouldn't take this as aclient Because there's just they
.
Well, I'm old, so I got to.
I don't have time for longanswers.
John's not a fit, because Ithink there's a big disconnect

(01:31:41):
between what they want and whatthey expect and what they got.
It doesn't take very manyemployees to make their revenue
in a cabinet business.
So what are we going to buildon?
How are we going to fix this?
Where's the money going to comefrom?
And you know, you got tosometimes look at things and

(01:32:02):
just say, hey, there's no way,practically speaking, to solve
this problem.
And that's what I'm gettingfrom reading the notes and the
good comments that have beenmade here.
It's just might not happen.
Let's pass and move on.

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
So if that's the case , that's self right.
Okay, one more comment, then weget a vote and we're going to
end.
Go ahead.

Speaker 16 (01:32:24):
So respectful to John's opinion.
He's been around a littlelonger than I have, but I've
been through a few of these, soI'm a glass I'd climb a mountain
with you, let's go.
You, I'd climb a mountain withyou, let's go.
I'm a glass half full kind ofperson.
This is family dynamics.
Family dynamics can be workedon.

(01:32:44):
There are some really skilledpeople in our world these days
that know how to do this,probably some in this room and I
also.
If I were working as the wealthadvisor with this family, I
would start there and I wouldalso really encourage bringing
in either an outside or aninside probably an outside based

(01:33:06):
on what Dustin shared CFO, soreally getting somebody with
hands on the wheel with theowners on financials projections
.
Maybe this is already happening, I just don't know it, but I
think that numbers tell a story,as do family dynamics, and I
think you can reasonably startwith those two steps and make a

(01:33:29):
lot of progress between now andChristmas and have a really nice
Christmas together.

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
Okay, thank you.
Okay, sweet, all right, lisaisa.

Speaker 8 (01:33:39):
One more, and then we have to vote I, like the other,
lisa, I'm a glass half fullkind of person and I would say
that the owner's response to myquestion tells me that they want
it to happen.
And if the other members of thefamily also want it to happen,
it can happen.

(01:33:59):
And yes, it might take help Infact it will take help, but it's
, I believe it's absolutelypossible to help this family get
their dreams where they want tobe, because they want to, and
and I think that's starts thevision.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
Okay, all right.
How many people, by raisinghands, think that they should
sell?
Come on, john, you got to atleast do it and say yeah for
yours, yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:34:32):
I wonder if I just got back from Scotland.

Speaker 1 (01:34:37):
Oh, he just got back from Scotland climbing mountains
with his grandkids, anywaythey're.
So hold on.
So I have one, two sellers andonline we have five.
So we have seven people thatthink that they should sell.
Okay.
Who thinks that they should doan internal sale?
Raise of hands.

(01:34:58):
I have four, five, six, seven,nine, nine on the internal.
That's 11.
Seven, 12.
Okay, who thinks that a partialsale or a carve-out right now
makes sense?
Any on the carve-out?
Okay.
Who suggested the carve-out?
They need to at least vote.

(01:35:18):
I got two fingers pointing okay.
What options?
Not that we like them.
So john has the most followers.
He had five online.
Okay.
So our vote is an internal saleto give it a shot, okay.
Um, any other comments onlinebefore we close?

(01:35:39):
All right, thank you everyone.
Really appreciate your input,your time.
This has been wonderful.
I'd like to talk to the chaptermembers.
If you'd like to stay after,we're going to do some more of
these events.
I love this event and we'regoing to do some more when you
talk about that.
So thanks again and have agreat day.
We'll see you next month.
Lois and Cinderella Cinderella.

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