16 Tons & What Do You Get? The Forgotten WV Coal Wars

In the early 20th century, the mountains of West Virginia were home to a series of conflicts that turned bloody and violent, owing in part to a group of hired guards who would evict miners, destroy property, and murder. Join us as we cover Bloody Mingo, the Matewan Massacre, the Battle of Blair Mountain, and the Paint Creek/ Cabin Creek strike. 

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Ref:
Battle of blair mountain by Louise Mosrie. Battle of Blair Mountain by. (n.d.). Retrieved June 12, 2022, from https://louisemosrie.com/track/2133041/battle-of-blair-mountain 

History. UMWA. (2022, February 22). Retrieved June 12, 2022, from https://umwa.org/about/history/ 

Magazine, S. (2021, August 25). What made the battle of blair mountain the largest labor uprising in American history. Smithsonian.com. Retrieved June 12, 2022, from https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/battle-blair-mountain-largest-labor-uprising-american-history-180978520/ 

A miner's story. eHISTORY. (n.d.). Retrieved June 12, 2022, from https://ehistory.osu.edu/exhibitions/gildedage/content/MinersStory 

Strike, K. (2019, June 18). A dying Miner's letter to his beloved wife (1902). Flashbak. Retrieved June 12, 2022, from https://flashbak.com/a-dying-miners-letter-to-his-beloved-wife-1902-416871/ 

U.S. Department of the Interior. (n.d.). Matewan massacre (U.S. National Park Service). National Parks Service. Retrieved June 12, 2022, from https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/matewan-massacre.htm 

U.S. Department of the Interior. (n.d.). Mother Jones (U.S. National Park Service). National Parks Service. Retrieved June 12, 2022, from https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/mother-jones.htm 

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Episode Transcript

Marissa (00:00):
PTM makes light of dark subject matter and may not be

(00:02):
suitable for all audienceslistener discretion is advised.

Matthew (00:10):
Find a vein and drain the black gold, hoping to God
that the timbers hold. Like myfather before me. It's all I
know. We live only to harvestthe coal. mine owners mercy is
shallow as a grave. Living inshanty towns. We got no say 14
hour shifts and such a meagerwage. And Mother Jones can't

(00:34):
help us now. Anyway. Anyway,we'll take the roads we'll take
the train by force. Oh, deliverus Lord from the Gathering
Storm. Lay down your Bible. Takeup your gun. Blair mountain.
Here we come. Each day a minerwould move from the light of the
surface world to descend intothe darkness of the coal mines

(00:56):
uncertain if they would everreturn to the light again,
deadly accidents were atconstant threat. Mines could
suddenly flood collapse orexplode as volatile gases and
cold us ignited with littlewarning paid by the carload or
the ton. Miners worked longhours seven days a week often to

(01:17):
bring up carloads, that companymen would declare as unfit,
thusly reducing their dailywage. The miners were paid in
companies scripts, those scriptswere only good at the company
stores, company owned houses,company owned insurance, the
company provided payment for thecar load of coal. That payment

(01:37):
was then given back to thecompany to provide basic needs
for the miner and his family.
Not only was this to provide thefood, clothing and shelter, but
also the equipment needed formining itself. You see, the
company provided a right to mindan area but did not supply the
miner with the equipment to doso. It was up to the miner
himself to supply his picks,shovel, headlamps, clothing,

(02:00):
safety equipment and evendynamite to do their jobs. When
all of a sudden done the minersare often left deeply indebted
to the company. In the firsthalf of the 20th century. Poor
wages and working conditions ledto numerous strikes and deadly
clashes with hired companydetectives. Join us as we add
another entry into this ourMacabrepedia.

(02:33):
Hello, and welcome toMacabrepedia America true crime
in the truly bizarre we are yourhosts Marissa and Matthew.

Marissa (02:40):
Hey, you say my name first you're the

Matthew (02:43):
lead host. Today we will be focusing on the dark
history around Cold War's of theearly 20th century we will
discuss primarily the Cold War'sof Appalachia, but particularly
those in the West Virginia

Marissa (03:04):
The Forgotten Cold Wars and a lot of ways which kind of
pisses me off but we'll get intothat.

Matthew (03:14):
Well, and it shouldn't be forgotten because of the fact
that because of this, this theCold War's and the in it stretch
all across the country. So thebut we're focusing on West
Virginia for obvious reasons,being one that you're from the
Virginia West Virginia area ofAppalachia, and as well as the

(03:40):
the being some of the bloodierengagements with within between
the detectives and the union,unionized coal workers, but

Marissa (03:54):
things that should not be forgotten, but in many cases
happen,

Matthew (03:57):
right, man, but resulting from that, though, was
like the 40 hour work week,weekends off kind of thing. So a
lot of people, equipment, OSHAYeah, a lot of people paid paid
with their lives to get what wetake as like, obvious working
conditions, right. So a littlebit of a backdrop to the story

(04:21):
to kind of set the scene alittle bit. So coal is generally
found in mountainous areas,right? Obviously, these are
generally secluded, hard to getto places when a coal seam or a
vein was found generally calledseams. But when a coal seam or a
vein was found, it could bemined for 10 years, 50 years,
who knows how long but it's inthese remote areas. So what

(04:44):
would happen is the company thecoal company itself would start
building a town around this coalfield because like I said, it
could be there for 50 years. Whoknows so the workers, they're
not coming and going, like,they're not commuting in.
They're gonna live right here.
Because of the fact that thecompany owns your house and
everything you're basicallyrenting it, it's a it's an
employee housing. So at anytime, if you are no longer an

(05:07):
employee, you no longer have ahouse. So they get you indebted
to them there. And these houses,in some cases, I mean, they get
they become rundown, and there'sa lot of people living there.
And some of them worked as like,boarding houses and stuff, if
you'd if if some of the minersthe earlier miners didn't have a
place to stay, they would, theywould room with other miners,
and then they would kind ofcirculate through, like, like

(05:29):
bed use based upon their shift.
So like, first, there'll be likea, there would be like an upper
upper storey to the house. Andthey would have that just set up
as like a hotel effectively forother workers. And each person
would rent out a bed that theycould sleep in during the end of

(05:50):
their shift. And they would havelike a first shift, and then
that person would get up andleave, the next person would
come in and they'd have theirbed for for second shift, third
shift, etc. So and then the theworkers are paid in company
script. Yeah, now company scriptis a generally like a coinage or
whatever, it's it's money. It'snot us dollars, though, it's

(06:12):
made up money typically forthat, yeah, it's totally made up
money. And then the companyscript is only good at company
stores, and to buy things fromthe company. So your paycheck is
going back into the company,

Marissa (06:23):
forever, you can charge whatever they want,

Matthew (06:25):
you could get a raise, and then they just raise the
price of everything because theycontrol everything. So

Marissa (06:31):
I mean, not only that, but they also would build like
the church in the town, theywould build like, wherever you
would go and play like a fieldin the in the case, they would
they would build schools, theywould build every little,
literally every building wouldbe owned by the company. And
they would have built that,

Matthew (06:46):
right. And this this, this, this was regionally
different. But for the mostpart, what ended up happening
was the the mines open up,locals get jobs there, the and
there's a big like ebb and flowof need for coal during this
time. So we're like World WarOne happens. And then it's like,

(07:06):
you need to have tons of coalbecause you're using it not only
for energy, but for making steeland all this stuff.

Marissa (07:11):
This is right after the Industrial Revolution has really
been taken off. So you needcoal,

Matthew (07:16):
right? So cool. It was but the locals would have the
wood would fill the positions.
But these are remote areas. Soit's not like a lot of people
generally live there. Yeah, sothey've moved the whoever's
willing to go into the into themines, which is hellacious ly
dangerous, when they ran out oflocals to get in there, they
would start going to placeswhere people were immigrating in
from other countries. So EllisIsland, they would they would

(07:39):
have the companies would havepeople stationed there, what
they would also do is they'dsend people overseas, again, to
kind of have you've listened tosome of our other episodes to
the poor areas of like, ofEurope, namely, like Southern
Italy, so there they go to likeSicily and stuff like that, and
they would get these thesepeople over there. And they

(08:00):
would offer them a way out, cometo America, you're gonna we have
this job for you, it's going tomake a ton of money in they tell
them this is how much moneyyou're gonna make. And it's
like, it blows their mind.
Because that much money isn't asunheard of there, what they
don't tell them is that you haveto give it all back to the
company in order in order to payfor your houses and stuff. But

(08:22):
this sounds like a like, that'sthe promised land. And then
they're like, Well, I don't havethe money to get there. Don't
worry about it, you startworking, we'll take a little bit
out of each week's paycheck andwe'll pay it all back. So then
you have these mines that are alot of the poor of the of the of
the area, and the poor fromother countries. They don't
speak the same languages. Andthey all come here, the poor,

(08:43):
and the immigrants are living inthese these houses. And they
become like, indebted not justbecause of the financial stuff,
but the way of life. Like theydon't have anything if they
leave here, and they don't haveprospects anywhere.

Marissa (08:58):
So all of their friends are there, if they've made
friends, if they know anybody inthis country, they are also
going to be working in themines. So they leave they're
gonna leave everybody that theyknow.

Matthew (09:06):
Sure so so yeah, so you get the company was utilizing
this by making it so that onceyou're there, it's hard to leave
because you don't have any otheroptions. You know, like it's not
just like, oh, well this sucks,I'm gonna leave. It's not that
simple, right? Becauseeverything you know at the whole
life you've built can just betaken by your company if you if
you decide not to do it. So insome of the accounts that I had

(09:27):
seen the as far as the pay theactual wages go some accounts
that I saw, found that thecompany would basically take
about three quarters of your payback

Marissa (09:41):
to trade it for

Matthew (09:42):
US dollars. No, no.
Well, you could do that too. Soyou can take a company script
and you can trade it for actualdollars and you lose a quarter
Yeah, you'd basically you'dbasically you basically get 75
cents on the dollar effectivelybut no like for like the dues
for like insurance for yourequipment for your housing for
For your food for the coal thatyou need in order to heat your

(10:02):
home, all comes from thecompany. And that basically is
three quarters of your of yourpaycheck. So there was a, there
was people that were, you know,some of the numbers and stuff
would be like, they'd make $58for the month, which at the time
is like $2,000. And then theybasically and ended the month
with like, $400 in their pocketWell, the equivalent, like 15
bucks, right, just to supporttheir family with clothing and

(10:25):
stuff for that for the rest oftheir family on top of that. So
it had the potential to be verylucrative. But it wasn't very
lucrative because you're payingall this stuff. And then

Marissa (10:35):
you could never save any money at all right?

Matthew (10:37):
And that's what you were doing. And regionally it
was a little different, becausewhat I'm actually referring to
is actually an account fromPennsylvania, from 1902. And
they didn't have company storesanymore, but they still because
they had company stores. Butcompany stores weren't the only
game in town. So there would bepeople who could who would come
into town and they'd open uptheir own stores because this

(10:58):
was allowed at that time. Butthen the company would be like,
Hey, I saw your wife shopping atwhatever. Oh, yeah. brandmark.
And because they were shoppingthere, that's, that's that's not
a company on store. That's, youknow, my, my brother in law has
a store and it's just right overhere. And then if you're like,
Yeah, well, we like we, it'scheaper. If I go over here,

(11:19):
yeah, that's great. And thenyou'd find out the next day that
the the seam that you weremining, you're no longer allowed
to go there. And so then you hadto basically, you're getting
bullied around. Because youknow, you have to you still have
to go shop at the company store.
Because even though you have theoption to go somewhere else,
they're just going to make yourlife miserable. And then all
these little annoyances andstuff if you if you do that the

(11:42):
job itself very, very dangerous,right? You're underground, deep
underground, right? There's acouple of different styles of
mines to mean, we don't have toget in all that for the most
part your your deep underground.
And once the seam is found, theycut it out. This could be
hundreds of feet deep. And insome cases, some some of the

(12:04):
cases the seam itself where allthe coal actually is it a coal
is also there's a coupledifferent types of coal. So if
we don't need to get into thescience of coal, but basically,
it's crushed plant carbon thateventually turns into this
burnable thing. And it starts aspeat and then gets crushed out
and more and more dense in someareas are way denser than
others. And they're used fordifferent things

Marissa (12:24):
use different types of coal for different rights.

Matthew (12:25):
So but for the most part, you could get the seams or
these veins that are like eightto 10 feet high. And you cut
them out and you're able tostand but there are some of the
seams where these people aremining better as little as like
17 inches high. And it was asaying that the scene was so
tight that if you went in withyour shovel turned the wrong

(12:47):
way, you'd have to crawl backout in order to flip it over. So
these people are like down inthis dark, hard to breathe dust
filled area. And they have alittle candle on their head
which could ignite at any time.
So you dig out these theseseams, you're paid by the
carload so what a carload is, isyou have you know, the, the
Indiana Jones in you know, kindof yeah tonnage of the car.

(13:10):
Yeah, and that and then the pullthem up. And it's these are
pulled out by like donkeys or ifthe seam is too small to get the
to get the donkey through. Thenyou have a pony. And if it's too
small for a pony, you have agoat. And if it's too small for
a goat, you have dogs that arepulling all of these these carts

(13:31):
out, and you pull it out. Andalso those animals were like
left in the shaft when theyweren't in use. Yeah. And they
only got to see light like oncea week, just so they didn't go
mind blind from being in thedark so long, but also

Marissa (13:47):
they were worth more than a human in a lot of ways
that the coal miner the coalcompanies believed that they
were worth more

Matthew (13:53):
Yeah, it was easier to hire another miner than it was
to replace a donkey. So the sothey pull out these carloads.
The carload would have therewould be a company man waiting
at the top, and he would makenote of the quality and could
easily discriminate against theworkers by declaring that the
carload held too many rocks orpieces of debris. So it would
lower the value of the carloads, you didn't get full

(14:14):
credit for this. And youcouldn't do anything about it.
It was just their word andversus yours. Also, they have
armed guards that are standingthere protecting the mind. So
the carload would then be dumpedinto a series of shoots in a
place called a breaker building,which is a big building that has
like these like slides on iteffectively. And the the call

(14:36):
would then be sifted through andsorted through by the children
of the miners. These young theseyoung boys are called breaker
boys. And they would sit abovethe chutes and they pull up
pieces of slate and such beforethis was all before child labor
laws, so they'd be this. This isall before child labor laws and
probably before they wereenforced, you know, because I'm

(14:59):
sure there was a Bit of a,there's a gap. There's a bit of
a gap. Yeah, so these kids werelike eight years old, sifting
through coal just sitting thereall day. And then once they got
to about the age of like 12,they would begin to actually
start driving the animals. Sopulling the mules out and
everything, you can

Marissa (15:15):
see it on their faces.
If you see pictures of these,these kids who are coal miners,
you can just tell there'salready beaten down by life.
They're not.

Matthew (15:23):
Oh, it's hard work.
Yeah,

Marissa (15:25):
that's, it's,

Matthew (15:25):
it's I mean, not only that, it's monotonous. Yeah,
like you're sitting there justsifting through rocks all day,
you know, that's, that's, that'stough. So then at 12, they get
into handling the animals sothat then at the age of like,
around 14, they'd be once theybecame strong enough, they would
then be brought into the minesto help put up support timbers.
So basically, you dig out thehole, and then you take these

(15:46):
timbers or you could leave, youcan leave pillars of uncut coal
to hold up the ceiling, becausecave ins were a real real issue.
So they bring in these timbersand they knock them up so that
they help support up theceiling. And eventually, the boy
would become a miner themselves.
So this is a cycle of fatherteaching son, son, becoming a

(16:06):
minor son becomes married, hassome boys of his own, etc, etc,
that those boys go into themines. And then it becomes this
generational cycle of repeating,repeating, repeating. So this
creates family units that worktogether in the mines. Which
also means that if there was amining accident, like a cave in
or an explosion, multiplegenerations of men, like entire

(16:28):
male family lines would just bewiped out. That's a long way of
saying conditions were supershitty for that. So that's kind
of the the fuel that's going toignite the fires.

Marissa (16:43):
Yeah, I mean, as you said, conditions were super
shitty. They were inhumane. Butbefore they're 20, the turn of
the 20th century. I mean, theminers couldn't really do
anything. If there was anyresistance at all. It was very
short lived. It didn't lastlong. But for miners the system
resent resembles something likefeudalism. So sanitary and
living conditions in the companyhouses were abysmal. Wages were

(17:06):
low state politicians supportedwealthy coal companies, rather
than the minor.

Matthew (17:10):
Well imagine that yeah, that's the good thing that's
gone. Ah, no.

Marissa (17:14):
But in many, many companies, they would do this,
they would pay them with scrip,of course. And then they would
go to the company store. Thisallows the companies to maximize
their profits and ensure thatminers remained poor, but also
loyal to the company. So by theturn of the century, many miners
were fed up with this horrendousthese horrendous conditions, and

(17:36):
the state became a powder kegrequiring only a spark to ignite
it. There's a poem by CarlSandburg that goes, you live in
a company house, you go to acompany school, you work for
this company, according to thecompany rules. You all drink
company water and all US companylights. The company preacher
tech teaches us what the companythinks is right? That pretty

(17:59):
much sums it up. So at thispoint in time, we've got some
unrest, to say the least. Andthen we get to 819 12. So we're
gonna get into April 18 1912,and konavle County, West
Virginia. At this time, therewere a total of 96 coal mines
operating in this small areabetween Paint Creek and Cabin

(18:21):
Creek, which is not huge. But 96coal mines, some of the workers
weren't making as much as theircounterparts because there were
various coal mines who wereunionized or not union
unionized, and there was a lotof different discrepancy in the
pay. So they were asking for amodest raise. The company
refused to give the employeesthis raise that would make them

(18:43):
earn what the other miners inthe area were making. So they
decided to go on strike. Theirdemands were one the company
operators must recognize theunion to the miners have the
right to real to free speech andpeaceable assembly. So number
three, they must stopblacklisting, the workers for

(19:05):
the forced trading at thecompany stores must end which
means give us actual real moneyright? Five the cribbing should
be discontinued and 2000 poundsof mined coal constitute a ton
scales must be installed at themines to weigh the tonnage The
miners are mining to make thisfair right six the miners must

(19:26):
be allowed to employ their owncheck weigh in as to check the
weights found by the companyagainst the weights find that
found by their own check Weymanseven the to check Weyman
determine all docking penalties.
So if there's any issue withcoal and they want to dock for
that they have to agree. Thesewere their demands seems very

Matthew (19:46):
logical seems pretty logical. If you're not doing
shitty things then you shouldn'tit shouldn't be an issue.

Marissa (19:52):
Yeah. So soon 7500 miners went on strike to protest
this. This is all along theKanawha River coalfields
Switching between these tworivers.

Matthew (20:03):
And also like what a union is? Yeah, go ahead. So
what a union is, is basicallyit's a group of people who have
similar occupations. So they soyou have like, miners or
telecommunications, I, we bothbelong to telecommunications at
some point unions. Butbasically, they just make sure

(20:24):
that it's just even Stephens.
It's just fair across the boardkid as fair as possible. That's
right. And a lot of people wereagainst this, the companies were
against this, and that what theylike to do is say, Well, this is
socialism. Exactly. This isRussia. This is Russian
propaganda, you know, kind of athing. This is Communist
propaganda coming over here.

Marissa (20:42):
And that was one side compared to the side of being
like, we just want fair wagesand safety features, right, so
that we can be safe at our jobs,and also money that's
commensurate with the danger ofthe job. That's basically what
they wanted, and also an eighthour workday.

Matthew (20:57):
Right. And the union justice was a was a group that
you paid your dues into, andthey basically represented
fairness, you know, to make surethat it is and there's still
there's Yeah, made bargain forthings and you come up with
compromises and stuff, but it'sjust it's, it's, it's still even
today, at least in the US, it'sstill kind of a can be a bit of

(21:17):
a hot button. Yeah, cuz you'retalking point which I don't
understand why, like, I don'tunderstand. If somebody has, if
somebody, one of our listenershas, like a, like a reason why
they why they think unions arebad, like a solid reason, feel
free to let me know, becauseright now, I mean, I belong to a
union, I didn't really likepaying the dues. I mean, I don't

(21:40):
really I mean, it, it has, itdoesn't seem to have a downside
to as far as I read. But I cansee why companies wouldn't like
that, because there was a timewhen I was working in in the
union. And we just got to like a$700. Check. And it was because
somebody in California, theywere getting back pay because of

(22:03):
chairs, because they weren'tallowed to sit during their
shift. So we but because we'reall part of the same union. If
somebody gets compensated forsomething like that, across the
board, everybody getscompensated for something like
that. So I can see why companieswouldn't like it. But as an
individual seems workout. Itseems to

Marissa (22:21):
work for the worker.
Yeah,

Matthew (22:22):
that's why companies hate it.

Marissa (22:23):
Yeah. And, I mean, I was part of a union. But after I
left, I kept in touch with someof them. And they ended up
negotiating a pay raise of $10an hour for everything that they
did, because Beckley which wasnot that far away. That was what
they were making for the samejob. So they negotiate it so
that they would make the sameamount of money. I mean,

Matthew (22:41):
it is communist in a way, like on a very, very, very
high level, like a very, likesurface level. Yes, it's it's
about fairness.

Marissa (22:49):
And the only one thing I will say, that I didn't
particularly care for is thatit's definitely not a
meritocracy. As far as like ifyou have seniority, you will get
a job a raise whatever, or aschedule, whereas somebody who's
newer won't get it. That's theonly thing though, and that I
feel like is nothing compared tothe the money and the safety and

(23:10):
everything. But anyway, that'sjust my opinion. But anyway,
getting back to this, there were7500 Miners there, and they went
on strike to protest this theystopped work so that their
demands can be attained. So nocoal is coming out. The Cabin
Creek miners join the PaintCreek miners. So everybody's
striking together, becausethat's the whole idea behind
strikes

Matthew (23:30):
is like all the 96 Coal learning.

Marissa (23:33):
Once the strike began, the United Mine Workers pledged
their support and pledge thattheir finances, their financial
support the miners, which is theunion, this is the coal miners
union. And they were pretty new,they weren't brand new, but they
were pretty new at this point.
But they are very interested inworking their way into southern
West Virginia. That's theirpoint here, they're going to
support these guys, they reallywant to be in this area. So they

(23:55):
promised to provide any aid thatthey could. They were very eager
to help. Partly because of this,the first month of the strike
passed without any incident,there was no violence at all.
They were you know, financiallysupporting these guys trying to
make everything good.

Matthew (24:11):
And the reason they were trying to was they needed
something like this in order toget into the region is the
people, particularly the peopleof Appalachia, and this is still
something that I feel is still atrue statement. They are
fiercely independent people.
Yes. So when you come in here,and you say you're gonna get
paid, just you jack and Sue aregonna get paid the same amount
no matter what. Jack says, Iwork harder than Sue, I should

(24:34):
get paid more. I want to be Iwant to, you know, my worth
should not be based on what Suedoes, you know, kind of a thing.
So that's,

Marissa (24:44):
and that's probably a lot of the mindset behind the
people who didn't unionize. I'msaying so when I was part they
were trying

Matthew (24:49):
they needed somebody they needed something where they
could show what the union coulddo for somebody. Yeah. So that's
kind of where where that kind ofcomes in because they have to
kind of explain it a little bitand kind of Get it Get it in
there. But

Marissa (25:01):
yes. And I actually think I misspoke. Some of the
minds were not union and theydidn't go on strike. But there
was there was a lot of, youknow,

Matthew (25:08):
and when when they went on strike, I don't know if you
have this in what you'replanning on saying, but there
was a, there were people calledscabs. Yeah. And scabs were.
This is also where are thoselike immigrants come from?
Right. So you have like theparticularly like Pennsylvania,
I think it was. Slovakians werelike a huge group of, of
immigrants that they broughtover because Slovakians were

(25:30):
like it. They had some toughthey were they were trying to
escape their country. So they'vebeen pretty much do anything. If
you could get them away from

Marissa (25:38):
people do it today, though. I mean, when, like I
said, my friends who still workin a union, they went on strike
a few years ago, they werepeople who were coming in from
other areas, and they werescabs, and they were crossing
the picket line and pissingeverybody off. But they were
making a ton of money. Becausethat's, that's the pole for
crossing the picket line, theywill pay you like three, four
times as much money as they paythe other people while they're
on strike so that you can stillget the work done.

Matthew (26:00):
But yeah, but yeah, so they have these, these scabs
come in, and the scabs will gointo the mines and just do the
mining while these other guysare sitting up there. So it kind
of makes you choose, like you'resitting up here, trying to slow
production, we still haveproduction going and all you're
doing is losing opportunities.
You really want to drag this on.
So

Marissa (26:17):
yeah, so that definitely does happen. But
anyway, the human human MineWorkers of America, they also
sent in this woman called Maryor Mother Jones. Mother Jones
was a renowned union organizer.
So they sent her in along withthe vice president. His name is
Frank Hayes, but mother donationno relation, but Mother Jones,
he was known as she was known asthe miners angel. She became

(26:41):
incredibly famous during thistime, and Upton Sinclair even
wrote her into one of his novelscalled the Cold War. And I don't
know if you know, but UptonSinclair is the one who wrote
the jungle which was talkingabout the horrors of the
meatpacking industry at thetime. Anyway, he wrote that, but
he wrote

Matthew (26:59):
on any part of that book, this is

Marissa (27:00):
a long time ago, as we know, but he said about her
there, quote, their broke astorm of applause, which swelled
into a tumult as little womancame forward on the platform.
She was wrinkled and old,dressed in black looking like
somebody's grandmother. She wasin truth, the grandmother of

(27:22):
hundreds of 1000s of miners. Shewould travel about inspiring
miners to strike and creatingunions. So she was very
instrumental in this entirething. She would flame the
protests within their heartspretty much and cause them to
really just want to fight back.

Matthew (27:40):
Do you happen to know why she got involved with this?

Marissa (27:43):
Oh, it was it was part of her history. She just felt
this desire to help people. Shewas so iconic, she would wish
she had witnessed the potatofamine when she was a young girl
in Ireland, of course. And thenshe moved to Chicago when she
was young. She met a man namedGeorge Jones, and they moved to
Tennessee. George was an ironworker. Yeah,

Matthew (28:04):
also that yeah, iron and steel companies were very
much similar to how coal work.

Marissa (28:11):
They had four children together. But they all died in
the in this yellow feverepidemic. So George and all 44
children all died. So widowedand childless, she returned to
Chicago and opened up a dressshop that was burned down to the
ground in the Great Fire of1871. In Chicago. Yeah. So by
the time the 20th century, Dawn,she was an aging and poor Irish

(28:33):
widow, who had survived so manythings, but now had nothing. So
that's when she created MotherJones, who was more or less a
character, she would wear black,and she exaggerated her age. She
said she was much older than sheactually was. This woman was a
symbol of the downtroddeneverywhere. And she took on the
role of the grandmotherlyfigure, which actually, in some

(28:54):
ways freed her from the genderedroles of the day. Because, you
know, women didn't have a hugesay in a lot of things. But she
was the grandmother of everyminor so they could all see
something in her that they weredrawn to. Right. She would run
about the country being madebeing she was hired by the UFW a
for a while, and she worked forwhatever cause would need her.

(29:19):
The United Mine Workers and soshe would work for garment
workers, streetcar operators,steel workers, copper miners,
everybody who she felt likeneeded a union she would go in
and she would try to help themunionize, to help them get a
better life. And eventually coalminers and she would help
workers fight terribleconditions like the 12 hour

(29:41):
workday, awful safety conditionsthat cause high mortality rates
when she started working for theUN WA. It had 10,000 members,
but a few years later as sheafter she had helped them for a
while it grew to 300,000 shealso organized many of the wives
into a mop and broom broom. aidto fight alongside the miners,

(30:02):
which is super cute. And so thisis the woman who was really
brought in to help the miners atthe time. And while she lost
many battles, she won many aswell. Sure. So then we get to
May 19 1912, the Paint CreekMine operators called in the
Baldwin felts detective agency.
They were union busters to breakup the strike. We saw them a bit

(30:25):
before when they wereinvestigating the curly axe
murders. Yeah. But they were forthe most part union breakers.
That's what they were they werehired to

Matthew (30:40):
say they're hired thugs. And they go in there and
they they bust skulls. Yeah.

Marissa (30:45):
If you talk to anybody in Appalachia right now, like
who knows the history of it, andyou bring up the Baldwin felts
detectives, they will be like,Oh, those guys sucked, like they
will not have a good opinion ofthem. And they they shouldn't
have. I mean, the Baldwin Felts.
They sent in 300 guards into thefray. The detectives. They were
a private security firm. Theywere known for being available

(31:08):
to violently suppress strikeactivity, particularly in
Appalachia, but also some in thewestern minds. Yeah,

Matthew (31:16):
they they show up. And Colorado, Colorado at Ludlow,
which is called the Ludlowmassacre, because they showed up
in massacred Yeah, they wereburning families in their in
their tents after they had beenevicted and they drive by what
their what their death machineis. They're not good people.
Yeah. And they'd fire roundsinto their houses and under

(31:37):
their tents and stuff like that.
So yeah,

Marissa (31:38):
I did actually my research come across a couple
people who are trying to defendthem and I'm like, How are you
defending them? I feel likethese guys were genuinely
shitty.

Matthew (31:47):
Yeah, period. There were rumors like they were doing
so the have a group of minersassembling together, and camp
Creek and Paint Creek, and thenthey get the Baldwin felts
agency to show up there. 300strong, and what do they do?

Marissa (32:08):
So the mining companies send in guards to evict the
miners from their company homes.
When they start evictingfamilies, effectively turning
them out and making themhomeless, the miners start to
fight back. The pink Creek CabinCreek strike in 1912 turned into
a 13 month long struggle thatwould eventually results in the
deaths of 12 strikers and 13company men. Well,

Matthew (32:32):
I mean, they got a better shot, but they took up
more of the company men thanthey

Marissa (32:36):
Yeah, that's true. So the Baldwin felts guards, they,
they went and they made iron andconcrete forts with machine guns
throughout the strike areas.
foxholes, and pillboxes whileevicting minor families, they
destroyed about $40,000 worth ofpersonal property at the time.
40 Yeah,

Matthew (32:55):
cuz they go into your house and they throw all your
belongings out. Yeah. And theyoften would would manhandle you,
they'd grab you, and then throwyou out, and they'd beat you
while you're lucky. Yeah, therewas a the one of the company
coal company lawyers had a quotethat said, it's like a servant
who works within your house, ifthe servant leaves your
employment, or if you dischargethem, you, you tell them to get

(33:19):
out of their servants quarters.
It's a question of master andservant. And this was in this
was in defense of this kind ofbehavior, where you just grab a
family and throw them out. It's,it makes a little bit of sense.
But you know, if you no longerworking there, you can't be on
company property. But the waythat they go about it is the way
they went about Yes. It'sbecause they're trying to show

(33:41):
other people not to do the whatthis person is doing. It's
punishing for the sake of thosewho can witness

Marissa (33:49):
Yeah, well, also the Baldwin Felts. They were very
much trying to build areputation so that their
reputation would precede them,right. And they wouldn't have to
put as much work for

Matthew (33:56):
exactly. If you go it's kind of like if you go in, they
go into make a reputation ontheir first go so that when
somebody says, straighten up, orthe Baldwin felts are going to
be called you go, Well, I guesswe better straighten up. So the
boogey man of the coal industry,

Marissa (34:13):
and they did assert control over the area, they
would block travel over thebridges that were crossing the
streams there. Because thebridges were owned by the mining
company. The strikers wereprevented from using these
bridges over the streams andthey couldn't leave on trains
that were traveling the area orthe Baldwin Felts. Detectives
would beat those who tried toboard. Yeah, they also had a

(34:36):
special train car. And theycalled this train car, the Bull
Moose special, and it wasreinforced with iron plating and
machine guns were installedinside. This is something that
they would do elsewhere alsowith the Ludlow massacre in
Colorado, when they had animprovised armored car with an
machine gun on it called theDeath special. So this is

(34:56):
something that they just did onFebruary 7 19. In 13, a coal
operator named Quinn Martin andthe local canola Sheriff Bonner
Hill got on the train. Theyturned off the lights and drove
the train through Holly Grove, atent colony that the UWA had
established for the evictedminers. They did this because

(35:17):
once they returned out of theirhomes, they would go to this
tent colony as wait place tolive.

Matthew (35:22):
They did the same thing in Ludlow. Yeah, then the

Marissa (35:24):
Baldwin the Baldwin detectives fired the machine
guns into the tents at thecolony. Several miners died in
the attack, including FrancisErnesto estas, who was shot in
the face while trying to protecthis pregnant wife. Something
that infuriated the miners 100machine gun bullets were put
through his tent. That's nuts.

Matthew (35:47):
Go ahead when they were in the n Mo, we're not covering
the Ludlow one, but there'sthere's so many parallels that
it's very similar. So, inLudlow, they had this tent city
and then they they dug they dugbasements into the tents because
the Baldwin felts were takentheir deaths special Yeah, truck
driving it through and justfiring randomly through people's

(36:08):
tents so they they've dugbasements, they dug holes so
that they could they could layin there, which ended up being
against them used against thembecause what the Baldwin felts
did at that point was they burntthe tents. And as the flaming
tents fell down on the miners,they couldn't get out of there
the whole protective holes thatthey had dug. So these were
shady people super shady.
Anyways, continue I'll stop withthe Ludlow stuff.

Marissa (36:31):
Yeah, but I mean these the the miners were lucky they
weren't dealing with winter andAvalanche at this point, because
this was April at least, becauselater on during the winter when
this would happened. I mean,they're in a tent.

Matthew (36:44):
Yeah. And they can't get access to coal. Yeah.

Marissa (36:48):
So anyway, Mother Jones would describe the carnage which
the coal companies would inflictwhen they would hire these
private detectives to break thestrike. She said quote, on a
mattress wet with blood lay aminer. His brains had been blown
out while he slept in five othershacks men lay dead, and one of
them a baby boy and his mothersobbed over the father's corpse.
So the news of this attack madenational headlines and calls

(37:12):
raged across the country, withone merchant even sending guns
and ammunition to the strikingminers in response. Another
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't justcoal miners. At this point,
people were just mad anybodymerchants and just middle class
people everywhere, which is mad.
Another woman Sarah Blizzard leda group of women to damage the
railroad tracks which preventeda second attack by the Baldwin
felts in this manner. Good forthem. The West Virginia governor

(37:35):
at the time, William glass Kokdeclared mount martial law and
sent in state militia into theregion. At first, the miners
thought this was a good thing,and that they would restore
peace and protect their rights.
But very quickly, it was clearthat they were not only there to
break up the strike, but theyreally just they wanted them all

(37:56):
to stop and to go away. Thesoldiers arrested 200 strikers
and they arrested Mother Jones.
They imprison them and triedthem before military tribunals
for inciting violence. Butdespite the fact that this was
fairly illegal, Mother Jonesrefused to recognize the
jurisdiction jurisdiction of themilitary court, and refused to
even enter a plea. She wassentenced to 20 years in the

(38:18):
State Penitentiary, but caughtpneumonia, and was pretty sick
for a while, she managed tosmuggle a message out to a pro
labor senator and was releasedwithout comment. After 85 days
in prison, wow. The guards andcoal operators faced no
consequences for the murders orany of their actions in the
violence. The governor's use ofmartial law was condemned across

(38:40):
the country, but little changedin the coal fields of West
Virginia. So then we're going tofast forward a little bit. This
was done this was in 1919 12.
You can imagine this is makingeverybody upset. They want to
unionize and it's it's just it'snot working because they keep

(39:02):
getting beat back. And they'rescared of the Baldwin felts
detectives and all this. Sowe're gonna go to Matewan, West
Virginia, the coal mines inMatewan Mingo. County, West
Virginia, which is where Matewanis would only hire non union
workers and strictly enforcedemployment contracts that
included joining a union asimmediate grounds for
termination. These contractswere known as yellow dog

(39:25):
contracts by fellow miners,basically because they were
signing their rights away. Andyellow is of course, like a way
to call somebody a coward, whichit kind of was signing your
rights away. But I mean, peoplefelt like they had no choice.
They had to make a living. Theseminers lived almost exclusively
in company towns. So if you werefired, you were homeless in

(39:45):
1920. The United Mine Workers ofAmerica President John Lewis was
trying to end this three decadeold resistance to unionization
in the region. Mother Jones gavespeeches she was 83 at the time
very effective If I tried tounionize the workers, over 3000
Mingo County miners join theunion despite having signed

(40:07):
these yellow dog contracts, andso they were all fired. The coal
companies then hired the Baldwinfelts detective agency to evict
the families from the companyhouses. And they arrived to meet
one.

Matthew (40:21):
Now Matewan is not a company town. It is partly a

Marissa (40:25):
company town, but it's it is distinctly different from
some other places that were onlycompany towns. Mate one was its
own town,

Matthew (40:32):
and then it boomed because of your company coming
in. But it was already thereprior which is kind of unusual.
It was

Marissa (40:39):
good thing for them in some way. Yep. But one of the
felts brothers Albert feltstried to bribe mate ones Mayor
testament Testament with $500 toplace machine guns on the roofs
in the town. These guys likeit's just,

Matthew (40:54):
it's just funny, because it's like, you'd think
that you'd have guards becausethey're protecting the mines,
like from like people gettinginto the mines or doing
something that it's not it's toquell resistance from the
workers and the mines. Yeah,there was even some there was
even some accounts where whenpeople went on strike, if there

(41:16):
were people still in the minds,they would just lock them in.
The company would just lock themin and be like, you're the ones
leaving them down there. We'reclosing the mind. You're not
going to work. So we're notgonna we're not pulling them
out. Yeah,

Marissa (41:27):
basically very inhumane. This whole thing.

Matthew (41:30):
It's literally working with a gun to your head. Yeah,
with it with a promise of a hugepaycheck. And then you get that
huge paycheck and then it's onequarter of what you thought it
was going to be. Anyway, sobuilds buildings with turrets.

Marissa (41:43):
Yeah, so they wanted to place machine guns on the roofs
of the town, but the mayorrefused. So the Feltz brothers
moved on to they just they startevicting the families. They're
like, okay, whatever. The firstfamily they evicted was a woman
and her children. The husbandwas away at the time. So he
wasn't there. But they went inthey forced them out at
gunpoint. And they all theythrew all their belongings into

(42:04):
the road. And it was raining.
This is a very sad,

Matthew (42:08):
or like situation a film that anybody Yeah,

Marissa (42:11):
I mean, lots of miners are watching and they're just
getting super angry. The scenewas enough to infuriate most of
them and the miners whowitnessed it. Were just furious.
They just got so bad. So theysent word to town about this.
Police Chief Sid Hatfield heardabout it, and deputized a group
of miners on the spot. He said,Okay, you guys can come help.

(42:31):
You know, I need some deputies.
The Baldwin felts agents walk tothe train station to get on it
to leave town, a train that washeaded back to headquarters in
Bluefield, West Virginia. SaidHatfield in the minors
confronted them and they toldthem that they were under
arrest.

Matthew (42:46):
And by Hatfield, it is yes, that family lineup he is
related

Marissa (42:49):
to the Hatfields and McCoys but only distantly. And
he did kind of play it outbecause he liked it. But

Matthew (42:55):
yeah, and the dude's a badass, he's like, he's like,
Alright, I need a group ofpeople. You're all deputies now.
I mean, it's like fuckingtombstone right there. He's,
he's awesome. And he's a goodlooking dude, he he's a good
looking except for his fucked upmouth.

Marissa (43:10):
He does have a fucked up man got like three teeth,
right? It was gold. These gotgold teeth, but like,

Matthew (43:14):
Yeah, but then I'm like, This plaque that's in town
for reasons we'll find out in asecond. It actually says the
first line is Sid Hatfield knownfor his flashy gold smile, but
there's actually like, footageof him laughing and he looks
like he's a really good lookingdude. That's, it's weird. He's,
I mean, it's weird to say thatbut he is like, strikingly good

(43:35):
looking. He is very hands. Yeah.
And he until he opens. Well,yeah. But then he starts
laughing. He's got like, thesejust got like, two two teeth.
And so he must have gotten hemust have had some, or he only
had those two teeth. And theywere both gold, which is also
funny. So no, that'd be great ifit was just a joke on his thing.
But anyways, he had the guy's abit of a badass. And he became
really, really famous because hebecomes even more of a badass.

(43:56):
Yeah.

Marissa (43:58):
So Sid Hatfield in the minors that he deputized
confronted him and they toldthem that they were under
arrest.

Matthew (44:04):
When else them coming up to the Bolton felt, yes,

Marissa (44:07):
when Albert felts heard this, he replied back to him.
Well, I have a warrant for yourarrest. Hatfield.

Unknown (44:12):
You can't arrest me.
I'm here to arrest you. Yes.

Marissa (44:16):
Mayor Testerman was alerted that said Hatfield had
been arrested and he ran outinto the street. He demanded to
see the warrant. He's like, Whatare you talking about? Why are
you trying to arrest him?
Hatfield had backed up into astore at this point. So
Testerman went over, and itlooked at the warrant, and he
declared that this was bogus.
Felts told him that he could nottake any bond and the mayor

(44:37):
asked him for the warrants. Andhe gave the warrant to the mayor
and the mayor read the warrantand said it was bogus. It was
not legal and that felt and thenfelt shot the mayor, then the
shooting, shooting started ingeneral.

Matthew (44:50):
What do they know who shot first? Okay, so that's a
bit of a controversy. Yes.

Marissa (44:54):
So when he said this, I really got it, set it off. A
gunfight erupted immediatelywith what Okay, so there's a bit
of discrepancy here with theaccounts. Some say that the
felts agents started thefighting angry that Testerman
wouldn't let them arrest SidHatfield. Others say that
Testerman or Cid Hatfieldstarted shooting at the Baldwin
felts agents. And still othersclaimed that Sid Hatfield

(45:16):
started the fight by shootingMay your testament in the back

Matthew (45:20):
but all we know for sure is there was a fire fight.

Marissa (45:25):
There was

Matthew (45:26):
William Defoe. Boondock Saints. Thank you.

Marissa (45:28):
I love that movie.

Matthew (45:30):
I love William Defoe.

Marissa (45:31):
He's good. Mayor Testerman was shot and killed
and they're suing suing fightalong with two of the felts
brothers, Albert and Lee. Butwhy do people think that said,
shot Testerman just started out.
I mean, that seems reallytragic.

Matthew (45:48):
The guy shows up and he's like, Wait, they're trying
to arrest you. And then he justshoots them. That seems a little
little sketch.

Marissa (45:54):
It does seem weird. But the idea is, it's pretty much a
conspiracy theory, but it saysthat. Okay, it started because
Sid Hatfield actually married.
May your test Germans widowJesse just 11 days after the
shootout. In fact, they werearrested the day after the
massacre in a hotel room forhaving improper relations. So
you could say that maybe he justwanted him out of the way. I

(46:16):
don't know. This led to anattempt by the Baldwin felts to
say, to have him arrested forshooting at your Testerman
they're like oh, you did itthen.

Unknown (46:25):
Yeah, that was you that did it. That was oh, yeah, go
off. No, that said Jesse

Marissa (46:29):
would later claim that her first husband had actually
asked sit Hatfield to watchafter her and their young son
because he knew that it was areally dangerous situation. You
decide

Matthew (46:39):
it doesn't matter the next day next day? I don't think
said shot shot the guy I'm notgonna say he wasn't happy. Yeah,
said Friday to shoot Testermanbut see and testament go down.
He probably thought that solvesome problems, because that news
was a couple

Marissa (46:58):
in total, 10 men were killed. Seven were from the
Baldwin felts detective agencyand three reminders from town.
So they actually did get theBaldwin felts pretty good here.
This gunfight became known asthe Matewan massacre, and it
carried enormous significancefor the miners. This show that
the big and bad Baldwin feltsdetectives they could be

(47:18):
stopped. They really had neverbeen bested before. That's the
importance of the main onemasquerade showed people that
they could best them

Matthew (47:26):
Yeah, and they didn't they didn't they never stepped
foot with a with a Hatfield saidyou told me earlier that said
stop drinking because it'sslowed has gone hand down. Man.
They were messing with the wrongdude. He shot them shot him a
little bit of that golden glarefrom his teeth was like, Y'all
know what you just got yourselfinto?

Marissa (47:49):
Yeah, police chief said Hatfield. He became an instant
local legend. Massively famous.
I mean, the Baldwin Felts. Theywere famous for busting strikes.
They killed minors. They ruinedfamilies. They ruined lives. But
he got him. Yeah. So he was asymbol of hope against the
oppression of the coalcompanies.

Matthew (48:07):
Also probably why the wife was willing to jump his
bone

Marissa (48:10):
down. And like you said, he wasn't good looking.

Unknown (48:14):
good looking dude. And he's quick with the steel. And
flashy with the gold teeth. He'sgot it all

Marissa (48:21):
he does. And he's really into the Hatfields I
mean, poof. So the viewer

Matthew (48:25):
if you were to make you couldn't make it better West
Virginia. Really good.

Marissa (48:31):
So the summer and fall of 1920 were big for both
gaining power in the Union, butalso for gaining power for the
coal companies. They were bothboth sides were really like
trying to consolidate power atthis point because they knew
something was coming. shootoutshappened here and there. People
were arrested tents weredestroyed. Minor families were
tossed out into the elements.
All of this thinking thesethings continued. Sid Hatfield

(48:51):
continued to mount a resistance.
He converted Mayor testamentsjewelry store into a gun shop.
As had been decided, saidHatfield was put on trial for
killing. So this was killingopera felt. So this was he was
still charged with murder. Thetrial began on January 26 1921,

(49:13):
bringing a lot of nationalattention to the miners. He
would speak to reporters, whichdid nothing but help his
reputation was legend, ofcourse, so he's getting he's
getting big. All men wereacquitted in the trial, though,
which really, really pissed offthe Baldwin felts because it
Hatfields scot free. The jurywas sympathetic trying to let
everybody off but nobody wouldanswer for

Matthew (49:34):
killing all the fellas didn't get anything either,
though. They didn't. Nobody wentto jail for the Baldwin felts
being hardly outside basically,we're just like, yeah, call it a
draw,

Marissa (49:44):
but they were mad because two of the felts
brothers who were the brothersof the Baldwin felt Yeah, they
were the fellas of the Baldwinfelt Yes, they were killed. So
this is big for the personal itwas personal. But nobody was
would answer for the killing ofthese two brothers. So meanwhile
80% of the mines had reopenedwith EX strikers and scabs,

(50:06):
which you mentioned earlier,those who were willing to cross
the picket line. In May 1921.
Union miners launched an assaulton non union minds and this
became known as the three daysbattle. It finally ended when
martial law was declared.
Hundreds of miners were arrestedfor even the smallest offense.
They responded with guerrillatactics and sabotage like they

(50:27):
were arrested for literallyanything that they could put
them on. That in August for onAugust 1 1921. Sid Hatfield
traveled to McDowell Countycourthouse and Welch West
Virginia. He was going becausehe had to stand trial. Basically
he was accused of dynamiting acoal tipple. A tipple is, yeah,

(50:47):
it's a structure that's used toload coal onto railroad cars for
transport, which he probably didwhat everybody was kind of like
an elevator to. Yeah, hetraveled to the courthouse with
his wife, a friend Ed chambersand Ed's wife, again, Said's
wife was the widow of MayorTesterman. And they had just 11

(51:07):
days after he had died. But herethey are just said his friend
Edie and both of their wives.
They are traveling up the stepsof the McDowell County
Courthouse. As they walked upthe courthouse stairs, a group
of Baldwin felts agents werestanding at the top. They opened
fire on the unarmed men who wereflanked by their wives. These
guys didn't have any weapons onthem. They were just walking

(51:29):
into the courthouse. Hatfieldwas killed instantly. Chambers
was struck multiple times and herolled to the bottom of the
stairs. His wife was yellingover them, he was just she was
begging and pleading, leave himalone. But one of the agents of
the Baldwin felts came over andthey shot him again point blank
in the back of his head. Itkilled him. Of course, Hatfield

(51:49):
and chambers bodies werereturned to Matewan. And the
news of the killings spread.

Matthew (51:56):
Well also in one of the accounts that I saw about that
particular thing, there waswitnesses that said that the
Baldwin felts then turned aroundand fired bullets into the, into
buildings to make it look likethere was returned fire.

Marissa (52:08):
Yeah, they did. You can actually still see the bullet
holes in the McDowell CountyCourthouse today from these
assassinations like if you gothere, you can see these bullet
holes. So about a week later,1000s of miners were preparing
to march into Logan and Mingocounties to forcibly set up the
union there. I mean, people werereally pissed off about this.
They were just trying to makesome headway in what they
wanted. They were planning tofree the minors who had been

(52:31):
arrested for participating instrikes, but they figured they
would stop in Logan County onthe way because maybe maybe they
would kill the czar of Logan asthe sheriff there was known okay
into a second. Alright, soMother Jones heard about this
and she tried to convince themto stop and up until now Mother
Jones has been a pretty leadingfigure in this entire fight to
unionize the coal fields. Sowhen she did this I'm accused

(52:54):
her of losing her nerve. Sheproduced a telegram that she
claimed was from the Presidentof the United States, Warren G.
Harding, telling the miners togo home and that he would
forever illumine eliminate themind guards if they did. But
most people did not believe her.
She said that she feared therewould be a bloodbath between the
miners and union fighters andthen the Logan County detectives

Matthew (53:18):
the marches are not not the Baldwin felts agency

Marissa (53:22):
no but you know what they're just about as bad right
but

Matthew (53:26):
the this is also 1921 Right so a lot of these guys who
are picking up arms to do thisour veterans of World War One
are so they all have a gun Yeah,they all have guns and they all
have at least some some trainingin with them and not to mention,
you know, just you know, they'vethey've seen that most likely

(53:51):
have seen some some some battlein their time. So not saying
that the Logan Sheriff'sDepartment probably also didn't
have a budget but this is goingto be like to two groups of
trained military guys basicallyrolling on each other.

Marissa (54:07):
Yeah, they used to do both civilian armies. For the
most part. The march of theminers to Logan County
coalfields began that nights theSheriff of Logan County, his
name was Don Chafin. He was veryanti anti union. And basically
in Logan County instead ofrelying on private guards like

(54:29):
the Baldwin Felts. Instead, theyrelied on the Logan County
deputies. So they they filled inand did the work that the
Baldwin felts did elsewhere. Thesheriff charged a hefty fee for
this. This kind of union bustingwas very expensive. I mean in
1919 he charged $37,000 But thattranslates to $638,000 in

(54:52):
today's money. That's what hemade 1919 doing this.

Matthew (54:55):
I thought you had already done the inflation
conversion with 37

Marissa (54:58):
No Wow. Yeah. Ah,

Matthew (55:00):
so over a half a million dollars worth of this
for this. My my privateorganization pretty much my my
wall. Yeah, it's it's his goonsquad but that's the Sheriff's
Department. That's crazy.

Marissa (55:16):
So when 1000s of miners marched to Mingo County to free
the minors who had been arrestedfor these tiny little petty
crimes, they first were going tostop and Logan County to kill
the sheriff. I get it. He's kindof a dick, right? Nearly 9000
men marched to Blair Mountain,which they would need to cross
in order to enter Logan County.
They're just going there on theway Sheriff Chafin organized his

(55:36):
own volunteer army to repelthem. This army consisted of
regular people like teachers,shopkeepers and other people who
were just afraid of the minersand what they might do these
people are marching on them. Itwas Gary just

Matthew (55:50):
pitching it as this is an invasion that's going to come
and massacre the lot ofeverybody there.

Marissa (55:55):
Yeah. There were 3000 people in this Logan County army
against the 9000 miners. Butimportantly, they were they had
the high ground for one thing,they also had much better
communication, the Logan Countydeputies and that army I mean,
the miners there were more ofthem, but they just they weren't

(56:15):
communicating effectively. Sothey were not very effective at
all. Chief and actually even hadthree biplanes and he used them
to drop bombs Wow, yeah, andchemical weapons on the miners.
These were leftover from WorldWar One. But they just had them
sitting around, so why not? Theywere spread gunfights throughout
the week. Overall, 30 deathswere reported by chafe inside

(56:35):
versus about 50 to 100. On theminor side, they also arrested
1000 miners for murder andtreason against the United
States. The US Army eventuallymarched in and put an end to the
conflict. Some of these men wereacquitted by sympathetic juries
and others were sent away. Butthe last one was actually
paroled in 1925. So none of themwere really in prison for long.

(56:58):
The Battle of Blair Mountain wasthe largest labor uprising in
United States history, and thelargest armed uprising since the
US Civil War. It did serve apurpose and raising public
awareness of the plight of coalminers, and This eventually
resulted in major unionvictories, and President
Roosevelt's New Deal, but wedon't talk about it. They didn't

(57:21):
teach this in West Virginiaschools even for you. I don't
even think they still do, butthey definitely didn't for
years. I mean, I think a lot ofit's, they're still scared of
what people could do against thecoal mines and against people,
and they don't want them to riseup like that. And I think that's
a lot of why they've squashedthis part of history.

Matthew (57:40):
Yeah. Also, I mean, coal, coal from for
environmental reasons is alreadyhe already gets pretty Yeah,
kind of gets a lot of badpublicity. That's a bring to
bring all this into, I don'tknow, it could help it could
hinder. I mean, I'm not this isnot me saying one way or the
other about protocol or not.
There's definitely benefits towhatever. But as far as like,

(58:01):
you could, I mean, to show thesacrifice that these people went
through in order to do to getthe results that they did and
what their job was andeverything like there's you got
to no matter whether you agreewith it or not, as far as the
industry as a whole currently,nowadays, like the individuals
who are doing the job, he yougot to have a bit of respect for

(58:24):
it. You know what I mean? It's,it's it goes, but the people who
are doing it are putting theirlife on the line for their for
their jobs, and for what theybelieve in, you know, there's a
lot of respect that has to go tothe miners regardless.

Marissa (58:35):
Yeah. And you have to understand this was 100 years
ago, things were quitedifferent. Also, I mean, I don't
understand why they wouldn'tteach it in school, except it. I
mean, I don't know.

Matthew (58:45):
I mean, at least touch on. I mean, I didn't grow up in
Appalachia. So I didn't either,

Marissa (58:49):
but I did, but I didn't grow up in West Virginia, like
they teach your state's history.
Shut up. They teach your statushistory. So like, I didn't ever
learn that. I never would havelearned that but West Virginia,
they would have learned that butthey didn't.

Matthew (59:02):
You'd still think that it was close enough to your area
that they probably know thatnow. I guess it's state Correct.

Marissa (59:08):
Yeah, they don't touch on local stuff at all. But, but
the United Mine Workers ofAmerica, they still represent
coal miners, but they also nowrepresent healthcare workers,
truck drivers, manufacturerworkers, and public employees in
United States. They were able toachieve an eight hour work day,
which is huge. The Unionachieved collective bargaining

(59:28):
rights in 1933. Health andRetirement benefits for the
miners and their families wereearned in 1946. In 1969, the US
wa convinced the Congress toenact the federal coal mine
Health and Safety Act, whichprovided compensation for miners
who had black lung disease.
There's only one doctor in thestate now, that is able to
certify that somebody has blacklung, because they are just

(59:51):
trying to regulate that so thatit makes it almost impossible to
get diagnosed with black lungnow.

Matthew (59:58):
Yeah, we didn't even talk about mine. There's asthma
is what it was.

Marissa (01:00:02):
Today their constitution has the goals of
payment of the salary that'scommensurate with the dangerous
work conditions. payment to befair, made fairly and legal
tender, not with company script,provide safe working conditions,
but operators to use the latesttechnologies in order to make it
as safe as possible. providebetter ventilation systems. So

(01:00:26):
you know, to help decreaseinstances of black lung disease,
in for safety laws and making itillegal for for mines to have
inadequate roof supports orcontaminated air or water. Limit
regular hours to an eight hourwork day in child labor, have
accurate scales to measure thecoal products. So what you know

(01:00:46):
workers could be paid fairlyestablish unbiased public police
forces in the mind areas thatwere not controlled by the
operators. So no more BaldwinFelts. The workers reserved the
right to strike but would workwith operators to reach
reasonable conclusions tonegotiations. I mean, nobody
wants to strike. They get to thepoint where they feel like

(01:01:09):
they're not able to negotiatesuccessfully and then they
strike but nobody wants to theywant to reach this agreement.

Matthew (01:01:14):
This also stopped being paid by the tonnage while they
were still paid by the tonnage.
But it was, they also had dailywages at that point, too. So

Marissa (01:01:22):
actually paid for the work of building the mind. And
yeah, establishing everything.
But Western, the Western UnionSchool System tended to forget
this entire thing for a longtime. And I don't want to like
overdo it, but like it, it'skind of frustrating to me that
this is just not as well knownas it should be.

Matthew (01:01:45):
I'm I will go out on a limb. And I suspect that every
state has bits of history likethis, that that if you like once
you realize that it's not forthe coal specifically, but those
bits of history that are likewhy had they not taught why did
why do we not know?

Marissa (01:02:00):
Or has it but this is like kind of a major, like the
biggest labor uprising sinceever in the US and people don't
talk about it in New York Timescalls this conflict among the
best and largely forgottenAmerican stories. The
Smithsonian actually said thatcalled did an article called The
coal mining massacre Americaforgot. And the Saturday Evening

(01:02:21):
Post, wrote a quote, wrote anarticle called The Buried
History of Western years ColdWars. So I mean, I don't know if
this educated anyone but Idefinitely feel like I should
have known more about thisgrowing up from that area. And I
didn't my grandpa was a coalminer. My uncle was a coal
miner. My cousin was a coalminer. I mean, I but I didn't.

(01:02:44):
Yeah,

Matthew (01:02:45):
also fun little fact that the same Fire in the hole
is from the US mining. Is it?
Yeah, because you would drill ahole into the wall with a hand
crank, drill, drill, drill,drill, drill, and then you put a
charge in there with yourdynamite or whatever. This is
underground. This isn't likewhen you see the you see those
the explosions happening whenthey're doing like the quote

(01:03:05):
unquote strip mining across thetop before you see like,
everything explodes. But this isthey they're in the shaft with
them. And they put the dynamitein there and then before they
light it, they yell fire in thehole Fire in the hole Fire in
the hole, and then blow it up.
Wow, I thought I thought it wasfrom cannons from like, yeah,
ship to ship battles firing allthe fire because you're drilling

(01:03:28):
it into a hole, pop it in there.
Interesting.
dTT I guess it's also that youknow, that song is at the at
this McCobb minute. That's ourfacts within the show about

(01:03:53):
other McCobb things that may ormay not be related related to
the topic at hand. And that'sthe theme song that even when
you're just making mouth noises,you still want to make sure that
you're not doing any copyrightinfringement. We should have a
theme song. So for today'sMcCobb minute, what I wanted to
share and this is this is theMcCobb minute is generally a fun

(01:04:17):
little fact. But to kind ofhighlight the what we're dealing
with in the topic here. I mean,joking aside, oddly enough on
May 19 1902, because you saidMatewan was maintained on May
19 1902. In Freder, Ville,Tennessee, are afraid of a coal

(01:04:38):
mine in Tennessee. 214 minerswere killed in an explosion. 26
of those miners were trapped,spending their final hours
writing letters to their lovedones. When their bodies were
recovered, their letters werethen put into the local
newspapers. And one of the onesthat are wanted to share with

(01:05:00):
you was Alice do the best youcan. I am going to rest.
Goodbye, little Ellen, darling.
Goodbye for us both. Albert saidthe Lord had saved him. Do the
best you can with the children.
We are all praying for air tosupport us. But is getting so

(01:05:23):
bad without any air. HowardElbert said for you to wear his
shoes and clothing. It is nowhalf past two o'clock on Monday.
Powell Harmons watch is in thearteries Woods hands. Ellen, I
want you to live right and cometo Heaven. Raise the children

(01:05:44):
the best you can. Oh how I wishI could be with you. Goodbye.
All of you. Goodbye. Bury me andElbert in the same grave my
little Eddie, Ellen. Goodbye,Lilly. Goodbye, Jimmy. Goodbye,
Horus. Goodbye. It is 25 minutesafter two o'clock. There's a few

(01:06:07):
of us alive yet. Oh God. For onemore breath. Ellen, remember me
as long as you live, Goodbye,darling, written by Jay L.
vowel. The he's speaking for himand his 14 year old son who are
suffocating to death and a mindwith 26 other people who also

(01:06:28):
share who also have their littlenotes that they wrote, all of
which are heart wrenching. Andjust say write having enough
time to know that you're goingto die and have enough time to
actually write this letter, orthese letters is just absolutely
incredible. And knowing becausethey will find your body

(01:06:48):
eventually, but not not in time,almost certainly. And all and
this is just to illustrate howdangerous and deadly this job
was. And this, and every one ofthese men who write these
letters all say that they foundthe Lord or they're going to God
or whatever, these are all thatthese are all God fearing

(01:07:10):
people. And, and the thing withthat, though, is they had to
understand before they everstepped foot into the elevator
to get into the shaft that theremight they might not come out.
So they had to be at peaceduring these times. And just to
imagine sitting there holdingyour child as you just suffocate

(01:07:32):
to death as you you know,brought brought them to work
that day, you know, and it'sjust, it's just incredible. It's
very, very sad. It's anincredibly, incredibly strong,
very powerful, I'll post thelink to it. So you can read the
rest of them. But they're,they're, they're, they're worth
they're worth taking a look. Imean, there's there's there's a

(01:07:53):
handful of them. But they'reit's incredible. And you can
even I'll leave a lot I'll leavea link where you can actually
see it written in their theirown handwriting and stuff. It's
it's powerful stuff.

Marissa (01:08:03):
I'm sure they did die,

Matthew (01:08:05):
did it? Yeah, yeah.
This these were all found,recovered with their, with their
bodies after they cleared outthe mind. And, sadly enough,
they knew that their bodies aregoing to be found that the
reason they knew that theirbodies were going to be found
was not because they're thecompanies trying to rescue them,
because they still need to minebecause there's still coal in
that mine, you know, so therewill be found eventually. It's

(01:08:28):
really incredible stuff. I knowit's a bit of a downer, but this
is Macabrepedia would deal withdeath and death adjacent stuff
here. But I think that is whatwe have for you today. Thank you
so very much as always forjoining us. If you want to reach
out to us, you can do so onFacebook and Twitter at

(01:08:49):
Macabrepedia.

Marissa (01:08:52):
We're also on Instagram at Macabrepediapod. And you can
always email us [e-mail].

Matthew (01:08:59):
Thank you for listening. Please share if you
have anybody that may even beremotely interested in listening
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be reviewed on Amazon oraudible. Oh yeah, I did not. I
did not know that. But yeah, youcan also review us on Audible no

(01:09:19):
one has done so so far. But I'venever even use Audible listener,
not a sponsor. But I didn't evenknow you could do that. For
podcasts. I never even thoughtto go to Audible for podcasts.
But anyway, thank you so much.
All of you who support us onPatreon, those who listen and
reach out we appreciate all ofthe feedback, all of the

(01:09:40):
interactions that we get frompeople. Thank you so much as
always, and join us next week aswe add another entry into this
our Macabrepedia