October 17, 2022 • 41 mins
In what is called one of the biggest mysteries of the American Old West, the Bender family fled from suspicion and a looming search of their homestead... and nobody can agreed on what happened to them. This search would result in finding the bodies of many people who had gone missing in the area, but what happened, and who were these... Bloody Benders? Join us as we add another entry.
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Episode Transcript
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Matthew (00:00):
Macabrepedia makes light of dark subject matters
(00:03):
and may not be suitable for allaudiences. Listener discretion
is advised.
Marissa (00:15):
Laura Ingalls Wilder, famous for writing the Little
House on the Prairie books, saidthat her father was part of a
search party for a group ofmurderers that had plagued a
small Kansas City. She said thathe had told her quote, they will
never be found, with a tone offinality. They never were found.
And Laura Ingalls Wilder saidthat she drew her own
(00:35):
conclusions for how thevigilante hunt for the killer
ended. In Neil Gaiman's AmericanGods, the main character shadow
and his companions visit aclearing, where they remark that
it was once used by the bendersto sacrifice to cheer in a bog,
a Russian did Didi who drewpower from those slayings
because of their use of ahammer, hence the instrument.
(00:57):
There are dozens of instances inpop culture that reference a
single real family that wasresponsible for many deaths. The
bloody benders. Join us as weadd another entry into this our
Macabrepedia.
Matthew (01:18):
Hello, and welcome to Macabrepedia marriage of true
crime and truly bizarre we areyour hosts, Matthew and Marissa.
And I didn't know that littleAmerican Gods reference. I mean,
that is a book that does havequite a few references that no
one is gonna get them all. Notwithout like, you know,
(01:39):
scholarly, a scholarly kind ofreading of it. So today, we're
talking about the vendors.
Marissa (01:50):
That's right. The bloody vendors.
Matthew (01:53):
The bloody, the bloody Yes, the vendors. Yes.
Marissa (01:56):
And you know, when it comes with the word bloody, and
when it has to BS, that's greatalliteration and you know, it's
gonna be good. Oh, okay.
Matthew (02:04):
Let's talk about those.
Marissa (02:07):
I've set myself up for failure with you know, too high
expectations, but
Matthew (02:11):
those bad, bodacious bloody brutal, keep going. I
don't know. I don't know thatmany other words that would even
be remotely close to beingappropriate for
Marissa (02:25):
this. The very bad benders,
Matthew (02:27):
the very the bad, brutal bloody benders.
Marissa (02:32):
That's these guys. So just a little background in the
1860s. Hopefully, we
Matthew (02:37):
should have a lot of background because this is a
pretty much the whole story.
There's something that happenedin the past.
Marissa (02:43):
Yeah. But you have to understand the setting. Also.
Good. Paint me a Picture Goahead. In the 1860s. In the US
this is right after the CivilWar. The US government had moved
the Osage Native Americans fromsoutheast Kansas to a new area
that's now Oklahoma, you know,to this a lot. They've moved to
American Indians elsewhere,because they wanted the land for
(03:05):
whatever reason.
Matthew (03:06):
Yeah, that's kind of the whole. That's, that's yeah.
The history we are going to getinto today. Yeah, that's a topic
for generations to bear. Yes.
Marissa (03:17):
Because of this move, this land became vacant and
white settlers moved in. And in1875, families of spiritualists
settled in western Labette.
County, about seven milesnortheast of where the town of
Cherryville would be foundedeventually. And they plotted
this new area where the next thenext year, the robot would come
(03:37):
through and plot the area. Okay,one of these,
Matthew (03:43):
what do you mean plot the area?
Marissa (03:46):
It means like, section that out. Developed plots. Yeah,
okay. Yeah, it's
Matthew (03:54):
plat something is to make a plot of Yeah, I
Marissa (03:57):
mean, they ran the railroad through its they had to
make something you know,
Matthew (04:00):
official. Okay. And according to the Urban
Dictionary, that is, I'm notgoing to talk about this is a
small penis even when erect? Iguess that's what platitudes
come from. His tiny penis. Thatis what
Marissa (04:13):
the Urban Dictionary says. No, we're talking about
Matthew (04:16):
hey, this is Macabrepedia. So they come here
for those little tidbits. So anymicro PD micro penis minute on
Macabrepedia
Marissa (04:25):
We're not going to be having micro penis minutes on
Macabrepedia after this one,
Matthew (04:30):
every every story I have a micro penis episode.
Marissa (04:33):
So one of these families there were five
families one of them was thebenders
Matthew (04:37):
Whoa, hey, why No. Are they bloody at this time? Not
yet. Okay, well, soon to bebloody Yeah.
Marissa (04:44):
So this is a family of four. There's John Bender senior
and his wife. She has differentnames depending on which source
you're looking at. So she usestheir Elvira or Elmyra I'm gonna
try to refer to her as Elmyra
Matthew (04:57):
pick pick one and go with it. Yeah, no, but Well, I
mean, it's it's October Elvirais a little easier for this and
then it draws a certain image toour, to our, to our minds and
I'm just going to picture her asElvira the queen of darkness.
Yes, that's her actual I don'tknow. I'm not going to look that
up as to what it is. I'm prettysure it's Queen darkness. But
(05:19):
huge. And we already talkedabout planning land and she when
Elvira is known for her hugetracts of land, which would be
reference to her tall hair.
Marissa (05:31):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Okay, so I just made that justmade me me
Matthew (05:35):
made me plan a little bit in my pants
Marissa (05:42):
I don't even know where I'm at. Now. We were
Matthew (05:44):
talking about my tiny penis. We're talking about a
Viagra. Oh, right. Yeah.
Marissa (05:47):
And then there's also the sun. So, all right, backing
up, dad, John Bender, senior,wife, Elvira, and then son John
Jr. and daughter Kate. So thisis the bender family. At this
time, you can make a claim on apiece of land. So John bender. I
mean, you know, it was just itwas a different time. Yeah, when
Matthew (06:07):
you say make a claim.
This is like what's that? What'sthat movie with? Tom Cruise?
Marissa (06:14):
Oh, I don't know quest.
Matthew (06:15):
Yeah, sometimes. Where he rides out. Dammit. This was
our this was about to be oursmooth movie reference for but
yeah, you just basically rideout and you literally just like
they had they actually had itwhere it's like, you have like X
amount of acres in this area.
You just go and fucking plantyour flag. Did they have a flag?
Unknown (06:34):
They did.
Marissa (06:36):
So anyway, sorry. John Bender senior made a claim and
took this 160 acre plot of landthat was located directly on the
great Osage trail which was atthe time the only open road if
you wanted to go further west.
Yeah, so it was actually apretty important spot.
Matthew (06:55):
This is out in Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas. Okay,
okay, they were moved toOklahoma.
Marissa (07:00):
The Osage is were moved to Orange County, we're in
Kansas. So on this land, thefamily built a small framed one
room cabin, a barn and to corraland they also dug a well so
that's what they've got on thisland.
Matthew (07:13):
So they're good at digging holes are good to dig
and we're gonna keep this inmind for bloody benders and feel
like we're gonna have holeswe're gonna be burying people.
Marissa (07:19):
They actually separated the space in the cabin. And the
part in the back was theirliving area. And then they
actually hung up this likeCanvas kind of curtain and that
like separate at the front ofthe cabin for the back of the
cabin.
Matthew (07:33):
That was also something they would do like in like
separate walls in ships. If youare a person of some level of
importance. So you had like somekind of privacy some level of
privacy to make like this is mysection they put up Canvas
walls.
Marissa (07:47):
Well, that is what they did in their cabin. And then the
front part of it the back partwas their living the front part
was like a small grocery storeand and snow. Wow. Yeah. Using
this as their business. Well,while they lived in the back,
Matthew (07:59):
yeah, that's just like a big studio loft. Yeah.
Marissa (08:05):
They carried simple provisions like groceries, shot
powder, tobacco and alcohol.
Plus was the place to go get awarm meal or a safe place to
sleep at night is actuallysomething I mentioned to you. I
was like, it's interesting howstaples have changed.
Matthew (08:19):
Yeah. Shot being Yeah, like, musket sharp rifle shot or
whatever, like gunpowder andstuff. Yeah.
Marissa (08:25):
It's just what people need at the time. But yeah, so
enjoy Oregon Trail. Yeah. Soanyway, by all accounts, they
seem to be hardworkingimmigrants like their neighbors,
John having migrated fromGermany. He had a very intense
look with dark eyes set deepinto his face with bushy
eyebrows, earning him thenickname Old Beatle Brown, John.
Matthew (08:46):
I like that, like everybody always throws like
nicknames are just like so easy.
I have searched my entire lifefor like a good nickname. And
nobody ever like none of thenicknames that have ever been
given to me as really, yeah,have really stuck and I've
always wanted a badass name, noteven a badass nickname, The
nickname that that stuck thelongest for me. And I know like
if any of my family members aregoing to come up with someone
(09:07):
that they didn't, they didn'tstick. The one that stuck. The
longest was splat which was mymom's boyfriend Rob used to call
me splat. And he said that wasthe sound of a cow shitting on a
flat stone. I was like I'll takeit I don't care one nickname.
Very nice. Well, splat rhymeswith Matt I think was also part
(09:29):
of it. And I I was just like,Why do you call me splat and he
told me that and I was like, Istill don't understand why I
would be called a cow pie butwhatever. I don't care I'll to
your right. Yeah, yeah, that'sthat's an f3 name.
Marissa (09:44):
Still a nickname?
Matthew (09:46):
Yeah, whatever.
Marissa (09:48):
Whatever.
Matthew (09:48):
That'd be cool too, if that stuck, and I was just
always known as I'm known tofight as fireball to a few
people. Not for the whiskey butbecause I played Dungeons and
Dragons. Yeah, that'd be cool.
All everyone, everyone, allpeople now on this this podcast
Macabrepedia with your hosts,Marissa and fireball. Not the
whiskey, but it can't be thewhiskey. Alright, so anyways,
(10:10):
back on track anyway. Oh, don'tworry about your nickname.
Marissa (10:21):
My dad gave me a nickname when I was a kid that
stuck with me for a long time.
And then I feel like I had onein high school that was, I
think, kind of supposed to bemean,
Matthew (10:29):
but stuck for your kind of like, ownership of it.
Marissa (10:33):
Those sort of things really bothered me like that.
Which is surprising, but itreally was like, whatever. So
anyway, I want to keep going.
Well, no, you had to tell uswhat the nicknames were. Suzie
Q. Oh, yeah. And then Mimi.
Matthew (10:48):
Mimi. That was supposed to be
Marissa (10:50):
me. There was a character on The Drew Carey Show
named Mimi, and I think that's
Matthew (10:54):
Oh, yeah. Did you have a lot of eyeshadow? No, no, no,
you weren't that fat then? No.
Just you were a bitch.
Marissa (11:03):
Well, yeah. Okay. These were like my friends slash
frenemies who gave me this?
Yeah, I think it was like abackhanded type thing. But
whatever.
Matthew (11:12):
Tell us about these.
Tell us girls go back to
Unknown (11:14):
Elvira. Hello, Ira.
Elvira bender.
Marissa (11:20):
So now I've already lost my place. I
Matthew (11:23):
know we weren't really on a bar at that point. But we
were talking about him havingthe nickname for his bushy
brows.
Marissa (11:29):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
So he did he was called Old BetoBrown, John. He often had long
hair and a bushy beard, makinghim look a little wild. As you
can imagine what the name thenickname, brown shirt Beto
Brown, John. He and his wifeElvira both had heavy accents
that were difficult tounderstand. And Elvira had a
very stern look. So she hadlike, notably a resting
(11:49):
bitchface people actually notedthis as being so stinner
sinister that she was called aShe devil. Interesting. And
liven after the fact.
Matthew (11:58):
Yeah, I feel like she's it's probably all I mean,
they're running a business inthe 1860s and stuff she's
probably a no nonsense kind of aperson you can't push around and
she's from Germany and shit likethat. She well. Story will tell
they're called the bloodybenders. I feel like maybe they
were right. But at the sametime, I feel like if you're just
(12:19):
an assertive lady, at this timeperiod, you're probably going to
be like What a
Marissa (12:23):
bitch. She claimed to speak with the dead and would
use various herbs and roots tocreate spells and charms. She's
got quite the reputation againthese were spiritualists. That
came over to us. Yeah, so theycould communicate with
Matthew (12:39):
seances and all that.
Yeah. If you if you haven'theard our episode on seance say
what? Go back for spiritualism
Marissa (12:47):
their son John Bender, Jr. He spoke English fluently,
but he also did have a bit of anaccent. He was about 25 He had
auburn hair and a mustache. Hedid, however, randomly burst out
into hysterical laughter, whichmade people believe that he was
kind of stupid. Just randomlyjust start giggling
Matthew (13:07):
Sure, he just uses it on a job that nobody else can
hear.
Marissa (13:10):
Yeah, and this was later seen as something that he
might have been putting on as anact. But with
Matthew (13:17):
that kind of changes the imagery that I had in my
head as to when he would do it.
I'm thinking more almost Joker,right, more recent Joker,
Joaquin Phoenix Joker.
Marissa (13:27):
He could be could have been like that. But anyway, the
daughter Kate was 23 she wassaid to be beautiful and very
charming. Her and her brotherJohn were both easily accepted
by the community attendingevents and being very social.
And Kate herself would also givelectures on spiritualism. And
she claimed that she was apsychic and healer. She also
(13:48):
claimed to be able tocommunicate with the dead which
helped her to make some money onthe side it turned out to be
quite profitable.
Matthew (13:55):
And that time in spiritualism was turning over
the money and that's anotherreason I guess to look stern and
stuff to
Marissa (14:02):
that was her mom, but yeah, this this case, Oh, yeah.
Awesome. But however, she alsowent around advocating for free
love. Nice. Yeah. And alsotalking about justification for
murder. Which was
Matthew (14:17):
a little less nice.
Yeah, unless nice there. Yeah.
Well I mean, there's all right,whatever. Well, we won't get
into that let's I want to knowwhere her justification for
murder is good.
Marissa (14:29):
Well, before that, she's just like this before
anybody suspected anyway,
Matthew (14:33):
I know. I'm just talking about like me is there
is there a time or somesituation where I'd like self
defense that's justification forher but then I guess you have to
get into the definition of whatis technically murder me about
that. I don't know. So. Yeah,really murder. That's yeah,
there's a difference betweenkilling somebody and murder for
sure. And there's really not alot of good reasons to murder
(14:55):
somebody. Guess how bad That's areally wrong view. And you
recently found out, it's notlike a passion thing, but like,
they did something very, verybad, like, you know, vigilante
style.
Marissa (15:16):
But she ended up getting quite the reputation and
she was seen as satanic by herneighbors, because of course,
why not? Yeah. Which meant thatshe ended up receiving a lot of
the blame for what eventually
Matthew (15:24):
happened with her family, Ah, man.
Marissa (15:27):
1871 is when the vendors open up their store,
which travelers would frequentlystop at for provisions and to
rest overnight. This is alsowhen some of these travelers
began to start disappearing.
Matthew (15:40):
Okay. And part of these connected? Why maybe?
Marissa (15:46):
Importantly, these people were often carrying a lot
of money. Oh,
Matthew (15:49):
yeah, he's connected.
Okay. Well wait and find out,
Marissa (15:55):
intending to either purchase a claim and settle, or,
you know, sometimes they wouldjust be trying to like, find
family and provide for them andstuff like that. But though they
were travelers, they usually hadpeople who cared for them. They
weren't like, you know, justvagabonds, they were usually
(16:15):
coming from somewhere where theywere known with some money to
try to go and make a new life.
And these people would also thepeople who loved them, once they
went missing, they would try totrack them down. But they could
no track them no further thanthe big hill country in
Southeast Kansas, which is wherethe vendors
Matthew (16:33):
right where those vendors were, man.
Marissa (16:37):
And with the first few disappearances, there was not
really an overt suspicion aimedat the area or the vendor
family. But over the next twoyears, rumors gained traction.
And travelers began to avoid thetrail if possible. neighboring
communities even started makingaccusations. So the SH township
holds a meeting and they kicked
Matthew (16:59):
them, they wait. They kicked, they kick the Osage
Indians or Native Americans,sorry, out of the out of the
area. I was so called and thenthey just were like, but we're
gonna keep the name that werethe Osage people.
Marissa (17:13):
Oh, that's what the source I have.
Matthew (17:15):
You know, I mean, it's fine. I mean, it's not like we
don't live next to Catawba.
True. Yeah.
Marissa (17:20):
So the two binder men attended this meeting. This
meeting discusses the 10 peopleby this point who have gone
missing in the area. Yeah, oneof which was a well known
physician named Dr. William H.
York. The people at the meetingdecided that this was truly a
problem that they needed tofocus on. So they decided to
search every farmstead in thetownship between big hill Creek
(17:41):
and drum Creek, which is thisarea right here.
Matthew (17:47):
Yeah, we have a follow around map.
Marissa (17:50):
So everybody volunteer to allow their property to be
searched, except for the bender.
Oh, wow.
Matthew (17:55):
Okay.
Marissa (17:58):
Little suspicion
Matthew (17:59):
Well, bet you got 160 acres you can come on now.
Marissa (18:04):
A few days later, a neighbor named Billy toll went
by the vendor property andnoticed that it looked a little
abandoned. And the animals hadnot been fed. This was quite
suspicious. So Billy toldreported this to Leroy F. Dick,
the township trustee, and asearch party was formed, which
included the missing Dr. WilliamYork's brother, Cornel am York
(18:28):
of Fort Scott, which is nearbyfairly nearby. They all got
together and marched off towardthe bender home, wondering what
they would find there and why itwas abandoned. When they got
there, they noticed that itlooked like the vendors were not
coming back. The cabin wasemptied of personal possessions,
(18:48):
food, clothing and anything thatsomebody might need. Really.
They're gonna be out on theroad. It was all gone. There was
also a terrible smell. That'snever a good time.
Matthew (19:00):
They have 160 acres you said. I feel like they're gonna
hide bodies under their fuckingfloorboards.
Marissa (19:09):
Well, they're not most they're mostly not far.
Matthew (19:14):
It's 160
Marissa (19:17):
acres less convenient.
Matthew (19:19):
I get it, but it's not like you're in the middle of a
town
Marissa (19:22):
this. What I'm about to get to you doesn't make a lot of
sense as far as people coming tothe store to me, but whatever.
So after searching the smallcabin, they found a trapdoor
hidden in the front and in anarea that was nailed shut.
Grabbing a crowbar, the men pryopen this trapdoor and
underneath it the men find a sixfoot deep hole that's full of
(19:46):
clotted blood.
Matthew (19:48):
But six feet of blood.
Marissa (19:51):
I don't think the entire thing but it's a six foot
deep hole
Matthew (19:54):
that's more than a couple of bodies. That is that
is that is that is going to opena Do a hole to hell and the
Cthulhu that's going to be atunnel to the to the island.
Marissa (20:07):
Maybe there's a human being like whatever the hell it
is. Alright sacrificing to.
Matthew (20:13):
I mean, I'm saying like you're bringing forth a demon
out of that there's no wayyou're having six foot deep by
body or body of water or body ofblood and hey, it's good, sir.
Marissa (20:23):
So full of trepidation.
Of course, they searched thishole, but they found no actual
bodies in the hole. It was justblood. What I thought was
strange, is what I just touchedon. How did they How did they
get away with having a bit ofblood in their front area with
people coming in and buyingtheir stuff?
Matthew (20:41):
That could be why people were like, I think it was
the benders because they're,like, ever smelled that smells
like they've been guttinganimals in their front freaking
lawn or in their front, theirfront storefront.
Marissa (20:55):
But soon the men move the entire foundation of the
cabin, which sounds like quitethe undertaking to search
underneath it, but they find nobodies there either. However,
this is definitely suspicious.
They're investigating multipledisappearances. Yes, I think I
heard you said that. This familyhas disappeared. There's a pit
full of love. They keep looking.
(21:16):
They keep digging in the areathat the vendors had used as a
vegetable garden and appleorchard. And here they find a
spot of freshly turned Earth andfind the first body buried head
down with feet barely covered.
This was the missing Dr. WilliamH. York School bashed in and
throat cut.
Matthew (21:36):
And then were they were they bleeding them into the hole
and then dragging their bodies?
Marissa (21:40):
No idea. Yeah. Nothing ever said anything about that.
And the bloody benders? Neversaid. So
Matthew (21:48):
maybe. I mean, maybe.
Yeah, maybe they weren't. Surelythey had to open right? Because
I mean, maybe they were justworried that someone was going
to see like a blood trail orsomething. So maybe they were I
don't know, that just seemsreal. Anyways,
Marissa (22:00):
but anyway, they keep digging in this area. And
basically, over the next day ortwo, they find nine more bodies
buried on the property,including a woman and young
child,
Matthew (22:13):
where all of them head down. Do
Marissa (22:14):
you know? And no, I don't know.
Matthew (22:16):
Because there is a superstition to that you bury
somebody's face down, or upsidedown so that when they're when
their corpses rise from thedead, they have trouble finding
their way out so they dig in thewrong direction.
Marissa (22:30):
So where are they found all this? These people the
bodies, this area became knownas Hell's half acre, for obvious
reasons.
Matthew (22:38):
Because they didn't use the fucking real amount of the
acreage that they had. Yeah,really. This is just one half
acre I mean, we would never havefound this shit if they actually
put forth some effort. A littlefurther
Marissa (22:49):
garden and an apple orchards that means like the the
soil was not as was it was morelike turned up, I guess. Sure.
It was easy to dig in. To putthe bodies there. I'm just
Matthew (22:59):
saying you dig a body pet somewhere where people gonna
go fucking snooping around? Idon't know. I mean, I also get
it. You buried the bodiesunderneath your apple orchards
and your your gardener. Andthat's just that's like longtime
fertilizers as it decomposes.
All right. All right. All right.
Vendors you thought this wasgoing to be this is a long term
projects. Okay.
Marissa (23:20):
A $1,000 reward, which is about $22,000. Now, it was
offered for information leadingto the vendor family arrest, and
shortly after the governorGovernor added an additional
$2,000 which is about 45,000 tothe reward, if all four could be
apprehended. Okay, news of themurders spread fast. And as they
(23:40):
do, people came from all over tocheck out the scene of the
crime.
Matthew (23:44):
Oh, yeah, let's trample some evidence. Yes, 1000s of
Marissa (23:47):
people descended upon the farmstead ripping the cabin
apart for souvenirs given downto the bricks lining the cellar.
I mean, I don't know I'msurprised still about
Matthew (23:57):
these things. But yeah, I was the first two times we
heard Yeah,
Marissa (24:00):
it happens every frickin time. Reporters came
from all over as far away asChicago and New York to report
on the story. People found outthat it seemed the vendors
hadn't been quite what theyseemed the only two who had been
who had been related by blood.
Were Elvira and Kate, mother anddaughter.
Matthew (24:19):
Oh, okay. Yeah,
Marissa (24:21):
they ran their business as a shop and in and when
visitors stopped in, they werebe they would be seated at the
table with their back the largedividing canvas that separated
the two parts of the cabin. Katewould then come in and start to
charm them and distract them.
She was known to be quitecharming, pretty and was able to
hold their attention. And whileshe has
Matthew (24:45):
their huge tracts of land, see, that's why we went
with Elvira Well, we're just
Marissa (24:48):
okay. So when she had their attention or whatever
means the vendor men would stepout from behind the canvas and
hit the poor traveller in theback would head whack Yeah, with
a hammer.
Matthew (25:00):
Ah, this was the turn of balls coming back. Then
Marissa (25:03):
the women would search the corpse for money, getting
everything of value and thendumping the corpse into the
trapdoor. Oh, I guess it's beena while since this research,
we're Kate would slit the throatso yes, they did leave the
bodies into the pit.
Matthew (25:18):
But they dropped them into the pit where Kate was
already waiting to slip tothrow, and then climb back out.
Marissa (25:25):
I think she slit the throat in the trapdoor because
later that night, the body wouldbe buried in the garden, but not
until later that night. Yeah,
Matthew (25:33):
so they are just dropping their their Yeah,
they're draining it out. Andthis actually super easy
cleanup.
Marissa (25:40):
Yeah, this actually worked for a while for them. But
eventually they murdered thewrong people. As you do as you
do, a family and daughter lastname longer, went missing in the
winter of 1872. Dr. York hadactually come by looking for
them stopping at homesteadsalong the way. He made it as far
as Fort Scott, which is actuallypast where the vendors live. He
(26:03):
made their safely where hisbrother lived. But then he had
begun to return home toindependence. But he never made
it. So they knew he made it allthe way to Fort Scott. But he
didn't make it. His two brotherslived at both of those places.
So there's one brother in FortScott and one brother in
independence. So they werecommunicating and they knew very
well when he met went missing.
They knew of his plans. So
Matthew (26:26):
why not like a ton of places? And this time? I mean,
if this is the mainthoroughfare, right, so
Marissa (26:33):
when he didn't return, I mean, yeah, there were only
there was a pretty good path.
They knew he was going so theycould play where he was going.
Matthew (26:42):
And if he's and if he's like stopping and asking these
questions, you can basicallyjust triangulate based upon who
last saw him somewhere
Marissa (26:48):
my brother come by here. So when he didn't return
home I searched party wasorganized with 50 men who went
from homestead to homesteadasking questions. They even
stopped at the vendor home andspoke with them, where the
vendors convinced the searchparty that the doctor had left
by admitting that he had stoppedthere. But he must have loved
and been stopped by the Indianswho had murdered him. And they
(27:12):
convinced the search party thisis what happened. Sure.
Matthew (27:15):
The best the best lies from one that contains a bit of
truth. Yeah,
Marissa (27:18):
I mean, it could have happened. So Kate, someone who
claimed to have psychic giftsoffered to search for him using
her powers. Nice. Yes. Andbecause this suspicion was
lifted from vendors, sure. Andafter the meeting about the
problem of missing people in thearea that the vendors attended,
the vendors fled and the bodieswere found, including the doctor
(27:40):
and Mr. Longer and his daughter,who was only about seven or
eight years old.
Matthew (27:45):
Oh, yeah. When they get away from a child murder on
Macabrepedia I
Marissa (27:49):
know it's just there's only one but yeah, okay. I know.
Matthew (27:53):
That doesn't matter how many we have.
Marissa (27:57):
I know. We specifically steered away from some Yeah,
Matthew (28:00):
you've made that well, that those are the moments that
like make like these, like a lotof murders like really stick is
either the huge body count orinvolving children. Yeah, for
sure. Over the course of 200years when we're covering these
things.
Marissa (28:17):
When they found the girl's body she had injuries
that weren't like the othercorpses. They were bruises and
cuts all over her body. Theyspeculated that she may have
been buried alive. Yeah, herbreastplate had been dented and
word. Her arm was broken. herright knee had been wrenched
from its socket, and her leg wasdoubled up onto her body. The
(28:39):
other bodies found on theproperty belonged to Henry
McKenzie, Ben Brown, WF Makati,John Gregory, and a woman and
man who are never identified.
Johnny boy's body was found inthe well. There were also
multiple dismembered body partsof other victims, they had no
way of identifying. And fourmore bodies were later found
outside the property and drumCreek and surrounding area with
(29:01):
crushed heads and slit throats.
It's speculated that all ofthese people were killed by the
vendors who were able to gainjust $4,600 for two teams of
horses and wagons, a pony and asaddle from killing all these
guys.
Matthew (29:19):
Yeah, $4,600 I mean, what's that? 80,000 It's not
Marissa (29:23):
nothing,
Matthew (29:24):
but it's a lot of bodies for a pony.
Marissa (29:27):
Many of the men the vendors killed had nothing of
value on their person. So it'sbelieved that they may have just
been killed for sport. Or they,in one instance. A traveler came
by and he was dressed verynicely, so you will click he has
money. Yeah, but he was kind oflike an authorial guy he never
actually had money he just liketo look like he did. So when
(29:48):
they killed him, indeed haveanything on them at all. So that
was just him trying to look niceended up likely me being the
reason he died. So I thinklifeless and look like a slob
Matthew (30:01):
well I mean I'm when I was at my absolute well not my
absolute poorest but one of mypoor moments in life I would do
that sometimes is dressed upnice nicer just to try to make
myself feel better. Yeah. Andthen I made the mistake of
picking up a person who may havebeen trying to get me into a
secluded area so that he couldtry to rob me. But I threatened
(30:25):
him first, I think and I scaredhim away. Yeah, that's a story
for another Macabrepedia Yeah,but yeah, that also another
lesson Hey, guys, don't pick upstrangers. No, not not not not
no matter what their sob storyis at two in the morning in a
Walmart. Nope.
Marissa (30:44):
No, I'm sure your heart was in the right place. But
yeah, well, it was for a littlewhile.
Matthew (30:47):
And then like I said, I then had to, and then my
patients was at an end. We'llsave that for Patreon.
Marissa (30:56):
All right, so as word got out about these terrible
crimes, other people cameforward with their own tales of
spending time at the bender andone guy was William Pickering
who said that he stopped inwants to eat there. But he was
grossed out by the stains on thecanvas that was draped in the
middle of the cabin. Bloodspatter just stains. I don't
know. He it's you know,separated the area. But when he
(31:17):
wouldn't sit in that spotbecause it was gross to him.
Kate allegedly threatened himwith a knife after which he
fled.
Matthew (31:24):
Hmm, okay. Yeah, I guess that's a smart move.
Marissa (31:27):
Yeah, another man a priest so that he fled the cabin
after seeing one of the vendormen attempting to conceal a
large hammer. Okay, that tracksdo Yeah, they did find fresh
wagon tracks leading away fromthe vendor home, and they
followed them to theater a town12 miles away. There. They found
that the vendors had purchasedtickets on the northbound train
(31:48):
to Humboldt. They found thebinder wagon and horses nearby
the horses nearly starved todeath. So it appeared that they
had been pushed really hardalso, and had not been given
proper trip sustenance. Thetrain conductor said that he saw
Kate and John Jr. disembark atChanute and took a southbound
train to Red River Country nearDenison, Texas, before
(32:10):
ultimately fleeing to an outlawcountry between Texas and New
Mexico. Meanwhile, ma and paBender carried on the northbound
train and ultimately wound up inSt. Louis. However, nobody ever
collected the rewards offered.
But there were rumors thatseveral groups of people had
captured them and killed themvarious different ways. One even
(32:33):
claiming that they burned Katelike the witch that she was.
Another group said that they'dkilled them all on a gunfight
and then buried their bodies onthe prairie. And other claim
that they had actually calledthem and thrown their bodies in
the river.
Matthew (32:49):
Are these attempts to get the reward for this? These
are just people just call tailand well, we
Marissa (32:54):
killed them. They're gone. They never found out what
happened to them. So spoiler, Imean, come on.
Matthew (33:01):
I figured that's ready to go.
Marissa (33:03):
But nobody ever claimed the rewards and ultimately, most
people believe they just gottenaway. There was a couple who was
arrested for being MA and KateBender, but they were later
released due to lack ofevidence. Later investigation
found out that paw Bender, Johnhad actually been a man named
John Flickinger, an immigrantfrom either Germany or Holland.
(33:25):
He may have committed suicide in1884 in Lake Michigan, but
others say it was Kate and MAwho killed him for trying to run
off with all their valuables. Mawas born on Mira mag, or let's
go see our Elvira mech in theAdirondacks where she had buried
a man named George Griffith whenshe was a teenager and had a
(33:46):
dozen children by him. But hedid at some point die of a
strange hammer shaped hole inhis head. And she allegedly
killed two other husbands andsome of her older children, so
they could not testify againsther. And Kate was her daughter.
Matthew (34:00):
Okay,
Marissa (34:00):
there's a lot, but John Jr. was actually a man named
John Gabbert, who may have triedto appear much less clever, as I
said by pretending to just likeburst out in laughter to like,
avoid attracting attention,right. He and Kate appear to be
to the world brother and sister.
But they were actually likelyhusband and wife instead. They
(34:21):
were rumors that if Kate becamepregnant, they would simply bash
the infant school and once itwas born.
Matthew (34:29):
Rumors,
Marissa (34:30):
rumors deserves rumors.
Everything I'm saying right nowwas a rumor. There's no
Matthew (34:34):
BS slander in the vendors name. We got nothing. We
can't prove shit. They were badpeople. We can't prove shit.
Marissa (34:40):
Yeah, they were bad people but they seem to have
gotten away with it. I don'tknow. I mean, like one of these
stories could be true. Yeah, butwe just don't know which one. So
yeah. Later one detective claimthat he had tracked gebert John
Jr. for a while before findingout that he had died of
apoplexy. Kate was born ElizaGriffis originally, and
(35:02):
allegedly worked as a prostituteat the vendor end. tacking on a
fee for spending the night withsomeone. Kate was believed to be
the most really
Matthew (35:11):
great one stop shop.
Yeah, yeah. Get your shot, youcan shoot your load wherever you
want. That's what the ickystains were.
Marissa (35:23):
Kate was born Eliza Griffith. I just said that you
threw me off. Anyway, Kate wasbelieved to be the mastermind
behind it all. We're seeing agreat deal of the blame. As I
said, you know, people just kindof figured she was the most
charming one. And I think theywere all taken aback by her the
most because that is believedthat the vendors killed up to 20
(35:43):
people. But as they were neverfound, at least not in a way
anyone can agree upon. This isone of the biggest mysteries of
the American Old West. Nice.
Yeah, I know. It. It's actuallysaid now that the place where
the vendor property wants stoodis haunted.
Matthew (36:01):
On a ley line. That's why it was using American Gods.
There you go. It's a long book.
Read it. It is long book. It'salso a TV show. Yeah, I don't
know how much they get stoppedafter season one.
Marissa (36:16):
But um, yeah, I mean, a lot of these places that we'd
cover they seem to be hauntednow or people say they're
haunted now. So
Matthew (36:22):
yeah, have friends here. Yeah, depending on how
many bile bodies you pile upinto an area you have a good
chance of hitting some. Somehaunting?
Marissa (36:30):
For sure. So anyway, that is the story of the
benders, the bloody benders. Andso what about you, Matthew? Do
we have a McCobb? Minute? Oh,sure.
Matthew (36:40):
I thought you're gonna ask how many bodies are buried?
Oh, never tell talk about thatlater. Nope. Not even on
Patreon. It's zero beforeanybody calls the police on me.
So today's McCobb minute iscoming from. Basically, this is
pulled from an article from CNN,where a man dissolved into
(37:06):
acidic water after he falls intoa hot a hot spring at
Yellowstone. Oh, I saw that. Andthis was back in June of 2016,
where a man and his sister weredoing something referred to as
possibly as hot potting whetheryou try to find like a hot
(37:26):
spring and in like, you know,jacuzzi, natural Jacuzzi kind of
part of the issue with this,this thing is that it is
insanely hot water. And it pullsup sulfuric acid from from the
you know, the bowels of theearth. And because of that,
(37:48):
yeah, so on a trip toYellowstone, i a 23 year old man
from Oregon. What and his sisterwere in an area you're not
supposed to be in, inYellowstone, you know, because
that's what people do, right.
And they're trying to find ahotspot or a hot pot to get
into. And at one point, and I'mleaving their names out of this
(38:12):
just just because it's too new.
But at one point, the man triesto reach in to test the heat of
the water to see if it's how hotit does. Turns out very, very
hot. And he then loses hisbalance and falls into this
(38:33):
boiling pot of water. And hissister, which I don't think
there's a video for that. Shetook a video of him testing the
water. I did not do much effortinto trying to find this video
because I don't need to seethat. And it was never
supposedly released by thepolice or anything. But he fell
(38:54):
in and his sister then runs toget help. When she's trying to
get help they go there theybefore they can get out to the
area that seems a little weirdbut before they can get out to
the area like this massivethunderstorm rolls in and they
were like he's he's most likelynot going to be alive when we
(39:15):
get there. So they I don't knowI don't know the details of that
it just seems weird that theydidn't like they Time is of the
essence of this do just fellinto a into a boiling pot of
water. But they call off thesearch to try to find them or
try to retrieve him because ofthe storm and the next day they
go out there and he if it wasreported that there was no
(39:40):
remains to pull, because he invery short order. There was a
significant amount ofdissolving. Yeah, so you have to
think this is if you boilsomebody right all their all
their meaty bits boil off andturn into you know, boiled meat
bits and bones generally Oftenover time, what if you do it in
(40:02):
a pot of sulfuric acid? It'sgonna be Yeah, got nothing.
Yeah, there's like you're notgonna find hardly anything a
little bit of whatever. Butanyways,
Marissa (40:14):
I remember seeing that article. I always thought that
was kind of disturbing. Itdefinitely stuck with me.
Matthew (40:18):
Yeah, so the other parks geysers in springs are
acidic because they are fed fromlike thermal water, that that
picks up sulfuric acid as itrises to the surface. And then
the sulfuric acid is produced bymicro organisms that break down
hydrogen sulfide within rocksand soil. So yeah, don't don't
don't do that. And the otherRanger, I believe, said because
(40:43):
Yellowstone is wild, and ithasn't been overly altered by
people to make things a wholelot safer. It gets dangerous. He
said, and a place likeYellowstone, which is set aside
because of its incrediblegeothermal resources here is
even more so. But yeah, so youknow, don't don't be real
(41:05):
stupid, you know, like peoplewho take selfies at the Grand
Canyon and fall in and stuff and
Marissa (41:11):
yeah, that's terrifying. It's,
Matthew (41:15):
it's so easy not to though. You know, like, grim, it
is really easy not to die fromfalling off of a cliff or a
picture. Don't do it, that allbut Anyways, that was a McCobb
minute for you. As always, thankyou for listening. And join us
(41:35):
next week as we add anotherentry into this hour
Macabrepedia
Macabrepedia makes light of dark subject matters
(00:03):
and may not be suitable for allaudiences. Listener discretion
is advised.
Marissa (00:15):
Laura Ingalls Wilder, famous for writing the Little
House on the Prairie books, saidthat her father was part of a
search party for a group ofmurderers that had plagued a
small Kansas City. She said thathe had told her quote, they will
never be found, with a tone offinality. They never were found.
And Laura Ingalls Wilder saidthat she drew her own
(00:35):
conclusions for how thevigilante hunt for the killer
ended. In Neil Gaiman's AmericanGods, the main character shadow
and his companions visit aclearing, where they remark that
it was once used by the bendersto sacrifice to cheer in a bog,
a Russian did Didi who drewpower from those slayings
because of their use of ahammer, hence the instrument.
(00:57):
There are dozens of instances inpop culture that reference a
single real family that wasresponsible for many deaths. The
bloody benders. Join us as weadd another entry into this our
Macabrepedia.
Matthew (01:18):
Hello, and welcome to Macabrepedia marriage of true
crime and truly bizarre we areyour hosts, Matthew and Marissa.
And I didn't know that littleAmerican Gods reference. I mean,
that is a book that does havequite a few references that no
one is gonna get them all. Notwithout like, you know,
(01:39):
scholarly, a scholarly kind ofreading of it. So today, we're
talking about the vendors.
Marissa (01:50):
That's right. The bloody vendors.
Matthew (01:53):
The bloody, the bloody Yes, the vendors. Yes.
Marissa (01:56):
And you know, when it comes with the word bloody, and
when it has to BS, that's greatalliteration and you know, it's
gonna be good. Oh, okay.
Matthew (02:04):
Let's talk about those.
Marissa (02:07):
I've set myself up for failure with you know, too high
expectations, but
Matthew (02:11):
those bad, bodacious bloody brutal, keep going. I
don't know. I don't know thatmany other words that would even
be remotely close to beingappropriate for
Marissa (02:25):
this. The very bad benders,
Matthew (02:27):
the very the bad, brutal bloody benders.
Marissa (02:32):
That's these guys. So just a little background in the
1860s. Hopefully, we
Matthew (02:37):
should have a lot of background because this is a
pretty much the whole story.
There's something that happenedin the past.
Marissa (02:43):
Yeah. But you have to understand the setting. Also.
Good. Paint me a Picture Goahead. In the 1860s. In the US
this is right after the CivilWar. The US government had moved
the Osage Native Americans fromsoutheast Kansas to a new area
that's now Oklahoma, you know,to this a lot. They've moved to
American Indians elsewhere,because they wanted the land for
(03:05):
whatever reason.
Matthew (03:06):
Yeah, that's kind of the whole. That's, that's yeah.
The history we are going to getinto today. Yeah, that's a topic
for generations to bear. Yes.
Marissa (03:17):
Because of this move, this land became vacant and
white settlers moved in. And in1875, families of spiritualists
settled in western Labette.
County, about seven milesnortheast of where the town of
Cherryville would be foundedeventually. And they plotted
this new area where the next thenext year, the robot would come
(03:37):
through and plot the area. Okay,one of these,
Matthew (03:43):
what do you mean plot the area?
Marissa (03:46):
It means like, section that out. Developed plots. Yeah,
okay. Yeah, it's
Matthew (03:54):
plat something is to make a plot of Yeah, I
Marissa (03:57):
mean, they ran the railroad through its they had to
make something you know,
Matthew (04:00):
official. Okay. And according to the Urban
Dictionary, that is, I'm notgoing to talk about this is a
small penis even when erect? Iguess that's what platitudes
come from. His tiny penis. Thatis what
Marissa (04:13):
the Urban Dictionary says. No, we're talking about
Matthew (04:16):
hey, this is Macabrepedia. So they come here
for those little tidbits. So anymicro PD micro penis minute on
Macabrepedia
Marissa (04:25):
We're not going to be having micro penis minutes on
Macabrepedia after this one,
Matthew (04:30):
every every story I have a micro penis episode.
Marissa (04:33):
So one of these families there were five
families one of them was thebenders
Matthew (04:37):
Whoa, hey, why No. Are they bloody at this time? Not
yet. Okay, well, soon to bebloody Yeah.
Marissa (04:44):
So this is a family of four. There's John Bender senior
and his wife. She has differentnames depending on which source
you're looking at. So she usestheir Elvira or Elmyra I'm gonna
try to refer to her as Elmyra
Matthew (04:57):
pick pick one and go with it. Yeah, no, but Well, I
mean, it's it's October Elvirais a little easier for this and
then it draws a certain image toour, to our, to our minds and
I'm just going to picture her asElvira the queen of darkness.
Yes, that's her actual I don'tknow. I'm not going to look that
up as to what it is. I'm prettysure it's Queen darkness. But
(05:19):
huge. And we already talkedabout planning land and she when
Elvira is known for her hugetracts of land, which would be
reference to her tall hair.
Marissa (05:31):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Okay, so I just made that justmade me me
Matthew (05:35):
made me plan a little bit in my pants
Marissa (05:42):
I don't even know where I'm at. Now. We were
Matthew (05:44):
talking about my tiny penis. We're talking about a
Viagra. Oh, right. Yeah.
Marissa (05:47):
And then there's also the sun. So, all right, backing
up, dad, John Bender, senior,wife, Elvira, and then son John
Jr. and daughter Kate. So thisis the bender family. At this
time, you can make a claim on apiece of land. So John bender. I
mean, you know, it was just itwas a different time. Yeah, when
Matthew (06:07):
you say make a claim.
This is like what's that? What'sthat movie with? Tom Cruise?
Marissa (06:14):
Oh, I don't know quest.
Matthew (06:15):
Yeah, sometimes. Where he rides out. Dammit. This was
our this was about to be oursmooth movie reference for but
yeah, you just basically rideout and you literally just like
they had they actually had itwhere it's like, you have like X
amount of acres in this area.
You just go and fucking plantyour flag. Did they have a flag?
Unknown (06:34):
They did.
Marissa (06:36):
So anyway, sorry. John Bender senior made a claim and
took this 160 acre plot of landthat was located directly on the
great Osage trail which was atthe time the only open road if
you wanted to go further west.
Yeah, so it was actually apretty important spot.
Matthew (06:55):
This is out in Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas. Okay,
okay, they were moved toOklahoma.
Marissa (07:00):
The Osage is were moved to Orange County, we're in
Kansas. So on this land, thefamily built a small framed one
room cabin, a barn and to corraland they also dug a well so
that's what they've got on thisland.
Matthew (07:13):
So they're good at digging holes are good to dig
and we're gonna keep this inmind for bloody benders and feel
like we're gonna have holeswe're gonna be burying people.
Marissa (07:19):
They actually separated the space in the cabin. And the
part in the back was theirliving area. And then they
actually hung up this likeCanvas kind of curtain and that
like separate at the front ofthe cabin for the back of the
cabin.
Matthew (07:33):
That was also something they would do like in like
separate walls in ships. If youare a person of some level of
importance. So you had like somekind of privacy some level of
privacy to make like this is mysection they put up Canvas
walls.
Marissa (07:47):
Well, that is what they did in their cabin. And then the
front part of it the back partwas their living the front part
was like a small grocery storeand and snow. Wow. Yeah. Using
this as their business. Well,while they lived in the back,
Matthew (07:59):
yeah, that's just like a big studio loft. Yeah.
Marissa (08:05):
They carried simple provisions like groceries, shot
powder, tobacco and alcohol.
Plus was the place to go get awarm meal or a safe place to
sleep at night is actuallysomething I mentioned to you. I
was like, it's interesting howstaples have changed.
Matthew (08:19):
Yeah. Shot being Yeah, like, musket sharp rifle shot or
whatever, like gunpowder andstuff. Yeah.
Marissa (08:25):
It's just what people need at the time. But yeah, so
enjoy Oregon Trail. Yeah. Soanyway, by all accounts, they
seem to be hardworkingimmigrants like their neighbors,
John having migrated fromGermany. He had a very intense
look with dark eyes set deepinto his face with bushy
eyebrows, earning him thenickname Old Beatle Brown, John.
Matthew (08:46):
I like that, like everybody always throws like
nicknames are just like so easy.
I have searched my entire lifefor like a good nickname. And
nobody ever like none of thenicknames that have ever been
given to me as really, yeah,have really stuck and I've
always wanted a badass name, noteven a badass nickname, The
nickname that that stuck thelongest for me. And I know like
if any of my family members aregoing to come up with someone
(09:07):
that they didn't, they didn'tstick. The one that stuck. The
longest was splat which was mymom's boyfriend Rob used to call
me splat. And he said that wasthe sound of a cow shitting on a
flat stone. I was like I'll takeit I don't care one nickname.
Very nice. Well, splat rhymeswith Matt I think was also part
(09:29):
of it. And I I was just like,Why do you call me splat and he
told me that and I was like, Istill don't understand why I
would be called a cow pie butwhatever. I don't care I'll to
your right. Yeah, yeah, that'sthat's an f3 name.
Marissa (09:44):
Still a nickname?
Matthew (09:46):
Yeah, whatever.
Marissa (09:48):
Whatever.
Matthew (09:48):
That'd be cool too, if that stuck, and I was just
always known as I'm known tofight as fireball to a few
people. Not for the whiskey butbecause I played Dungeons and
Dragons. Yeah, that'd be cool.
All everyone, everyone, allpeople now on this this podcast
Macabrepedia with your hosts,Marissa and fireball. Not the
whiskey, but it can't be thewhiskey. Alright, so anyways,
(10:10):
back on track anyway. Oh, don'tworry about your nickname.
Marissa (10:21):
My dad gave me a nickname when I was a kid that
stuck with me for a long time.
And then I feel like I had onein high school that was, I
think, kind of supposed to bemean,
Matthew (10:29):
but stuck for your kind of like, ownership of it.
Marissa (10:33):
Those sort of things really bothered me like that.
Which is surprising, but itreally was like, whatever. So
anyway, I want to keep going.
Well, no, you had to tell uswhat the nicknames were. Suzie
Q. Oh, yeah. And then Mimi.
Matthew (10:48):
Mimi. That was supposed to be
Marissa (10:50):
me. There was a character on The Drew Carey Show
named Mimi, and I think that's
Matthew (10:54):
Oh, yeah. Did you have a lot of eyeshadow? No, no, no,
you weren't that fat then? No.
Just you were a bitch.
Marissa (11:03):
Well, yeah. Okay. These were like my friends slash
frenemies who gave me this?
Yeah, I think it was like abackhanded type thing. But
whatever.
Matthew (11:12):
Tell us about these.
Tell us girls go back to
Unknown (11:14):
Elvira. Hello, Ira.
Elvira bender.
Marissa (11:20):
So now I've already lost my place. I
Matthew (11:23):
know we weren't really on a bar at that point. But we
were talking about him havingthe nickname for his bushy
brows.
Marissa (11:29):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
So he did he was called Old BetoBrown, John. He often had long
hair and a bushy beard, makinghim look a little wild. As you
can imagine what the name thenickname, brown shirt Beto
Brown, John. He and his wifeElvira both had heavy accents
that were difficult tounderstand. And Elvira had a
very stern look. So she hadlike, notably a resting
(11:49):
bitchface people actually notedthis as being so stinner
sinister that she was called aShe devil. Interesting. And
liven after the fact.
Matthew (11:58):
Yeah, I feel like she's it's probably all I mean,
they're running a business inthe 1860s and stuff she's
probably a no nonsense kind of aperson you can't push around and
she's from Germany and shit likethat. She well. Story will tell
they're called the bloodybenders. I feel like maybe they
were right. But at the sametime, I feel like if you're just
(12:19):
an assertive lady, at this timeperiod, you're probably going to
be like What a
Marissa (12:23):
bitch. She claimed to speak with the dead and would
use various herbs and roots tocreate spells and charms. She's
got quite the reputation againthese were spiritualists. That
came over to us. Yeah, so theycould communicate with
Matthew (12:39):
seances and all that.
Yeah. If you if you haven'theard our episode on seance say
what? Go back for spiritualism
Marissa (12:47):
their son John Bender, Jr. He spoke English fluently,
but he also did have a bit of anaccent. He was about 25 He had
auburn hair and a mustache. Hedid, however, randomly burst out
into hysterical laughter, whichmade people believe that he was
kind of stupid. Just randomlyjust start giggling
Matthew (13:07):
Sure, he just uses it on a job that nobody else can
hear.
Marissa (13:10):
Yeah, and this was later seen as something that he
might have been putting on as anact. But with
Matthew (13:17):
that kind of changes the imagery that I had in my
head as to when he would do it.
I'm thinking more almost Joker,right, more recent Joker,
Joaquin Phoenix Joker.
Marissa (13:27):
He could be could have been like that. But anyway, the
daughter Kate was 23 she wassaid to be beautiful and very
charming. Her and her brotherJohn were both easily accepted
by the community attendingevents and being very social.
And Kate herself would also givelectures on spiritualism. And
she claimed that she was apsychic and healer. She also
(13:48):
claimed to be able tocommunicate with the dead which
helped her to make some money onthe side it turned out to be
quite profitable.
Matthew (13:55):
And that time in spiritualism was turning over
the money and that's anotherreason I guess to look stern and
stuff to
Marissa (14:02):
that was her mom, but yeah, this this case, Oh, yeah.
Awesome. But however, she alsowent around advocating for free
love. Nice. Yeah. And alsotalking about justification for
murder. Which was
Matthew (14:17):
a little less nice.
Yeah, unless nice there. Yeah.
Well I mean, there's all right,whatever. Well, we won't get
into that let's I want to knowwhere her justification for
murder is good.
Marissa (14:29):
Well, before that, she's just like this before
anybody suspected anyway,
Matthew (14:33):
I know. I'm just talking about like me is there
is there a time or somesituation where I'd like self
defense that's justification forher but then I guess you have to
get into the definition of whatis technically murder me about
that. I don't know. So. Yeah,really murder. That's yeah,
there's a difference betweenkilling somebody and murder for
sure. And there's really not alot of good reasons to murder
(14:55):
somebody. Guess how bad That's areally wrong view. And you
recently found out, it's notlike a passion thing, but like,
they did something very, verybad, like, you know, vigilante
style.
Marissa (15:16):
But she ended up getting quite the reputation and
she was seen as satanic by herneighbors, because of course,
why not? Yeah. Which meant thatshe ended up receiving a lot of
the blame for what eventually
Matthew (15:24):
happened with her family, Ah, man.
Marissa (15:27):
1871 is when the vendors open up their store,
which travelers would frequentlystop at for provisions and to
rest overnight. This is alsowhen some of these travelers
began to start disappearing.
Matthew (15:40):
Okay. And part of these connected? Why maybe?
Marissa (15:46):
Importantly, these people were often carrying a lot
of money. Oh,
Matthew (15:49):
yeah, he's connected.
Okay. Well wait and find out,
Marissa (15:55):
intending to either purchase a claim and settle, or,
you know, sometimes they wouldjust be trying to like, find
family and provide for them andstuff like that. But though they
were travelers, they usually hadpeople who cared for them. They
weren't like, you know, justvagabonds, they were usually
(16:15):
coming from somewhere where theywere known with some money to
try to go and make a new life.
And these people would also thepeople who loved them, once they
went missing, they would try totrack them down. But they could
no track them no further thanthe big hill country in
Southeast Kansas, which is wherethe vendors
Matthew (16:33):
right where those vendors were, man.
Marissa (16:37):
And with the first few disappearances, there was not
really an overt suspicion aimedat the area or the vendor
family. But over the next twoyears, rumors gained traction.
And travelers began to avoid thetrail if possible. neighboring
communities even started makingaccusations. So the SH township
holds a meeting and they kicked
Matthew (16:59):
them, they wait. They kicked, they kick the Osage
Indians or Native Americans,sorry, out of the out of the
area. I was so called and thenthey just were like, but we're
gonna keep the name that werethe Osage people.
Marissa (17:13):
Oh, that's what the source I have.
Matthew (17:15):
You know, I mean, it's fine. I mean, it's not like we
don't live next to Catawba.
True. Yeah.
Marissa (17:20):
So the two binder men attended this meeting. This
meeting discusses the 10 peopleby this point who have gone
missing in the area. Yeah, oneof which was a well known
physician named Dr. William H.
York. The people at the meetingdecided that this was truly a
problem that they needed tofocus on. So they decided to
search every farmstead in thetownship between big hill Creek
(17:41):
and drum Creek, which is thisarea right here.
Matthew (17:47):
Yeah, we have a follow around map.
Marissa (17:50):
So everybody volunteer to allow their property to be
searched, except for the bender.
Oh, wow.
Matthew (17:55):
Okay.
Marissa (17:58):
Little suspicion
Matthew (17:59):
Well, bet you got 160 acres you can come on now.
Marissa (18:04):
A few days later, a neighbor named Billy toll went
by the vendor property andnoticed that it looked a little
abandoned. And the animals hadnot been fed. This was quite
suspicious. So Billy toldreported this to Leroy F. Dick,
the township trustee, and asearch party was formed, which
included the missing Dr. WilliamYork's brother, Cornel am York
(18:28):
of Fort Scott, which is nearbyfairly nearby. They all got
together and marched off towardthe bender home, wondering what
they would find there and why itwas abandoned. When they got
there, they noticed that itlooked like the vendors were not
coming back. The cabin wasemptied of personal possessions,
(18:48):
food, clothing and anything thatsomebody might need. Really.
They're gonna be out on theroad. It was all gone. There was
also a terrible smell. That'snever a good time.
Matthew (19:00):
They have 160 acres you said. I feel like they're gonna
hide bodies under their fuckingfloorboards.
Marissa (19:09):
Well, they're not most they're mostly not far.
Matthew (19:14):
It's 160
Marissa (19:17):
acres less convenient.
Matthew (19:19):
I get it, but it's not like you're in the middle of a
town
Marissa (19:22):
this. What I'm about to get to you doesn't make a lot of
sense as far as people coming tothe store to me, but whatever.
So after searching the smallcabin, they found a trapdoor
hidden in the front and in anarea that was nailed shut.
Grabbing a crowbar, the men pryopen this trapdoor and
underneath it the men find a sixfoot deep hole that's full of
(19:46):
clotted blood.
Matthew (19:48):
But six feet of blood.
Marissa (19:51):
I don't think the entire thing but it's a six foot
deep hole
Matthew (19:54):
that's more than a couple of bodies. That is that
is that is that is going to opena Do a hole to hell and the
Cthulhu that's going to be atunnel to the to the island.
Marissa (20:07):
Maybe there's a human being like whatever the hell it
is. Alright sacrificing to.
Matthew (20:13):
I mean, I'm saying like you're bringing forth a demon
out of that there's no wayyou're having six foot deep by
body or body of water or body ofblood and hey, it's good, sir.
Marissa (20:23):
So full of trepidation.
Of course, they searched thishole, but they found no actual
bodies in the hole. It was justblood. What I thought was
strange, is what I just touchedon. How did they How did they
get away with having a bit ofblood in their front area with
people coming in and buyingtheir stuff?
Matthew (20:41):
That could be why people were like, I think it was
the benders because they're,like, ever smelled that smells
like they've been guttinganimals in their front freaking
lawn or in their front, theirfront storefront.
Marissa (20:55):
But soon the men move the entire foundation of the
cabin, which sounds like quitethe undertaking to search
underneath it, but they find nobodies there either. However,
this is definitely suspicious.
They're investigating multipledisappearances. Yes, I think I
heard you said that. This familyhas disappeared. There's a pit
full of love. They keep looking.
(21:16):
They keep digging in the areathat the vendors had used as a
vegetable garden and appleorchard. And here they find a
spot of freshly turned Earth andfind the first body buried head
down with feet barely covered.
This was the missing Dr. WilliamH. York School bashed in and
throat cut.
Matthew (21:36):
And then were they were they bleeding them into the hole
and then dragging their bodies?
Marissa (21:40):
No idea. Yeah. Nothing ever said anything about that.
And the bloody benders? Neversaid. So
Matthew (21:48):
maybe. I mean, maybe.
Yeah, maybe they weren't. Surelythey had to open right? Because
I mean, maybe they were justworried that someone was going
to see like a blood trail orsomething. So maybe they were I
don't know, that just seemsreal. Anyways,
Marissa (22:00):
but anyway, they keep digging in this area. And
basically, over the next day ortwo, they find nine more bodies
buried on the property,including a woman and young
child,
Matthew (22:13):
where all of them head down. Do
Marissa (22:14):
you know? And no, I don't know.
Matthew (22:16):
Because there is a superstition to that you bury
somebody's face down, or upsidedown so that when they're when
their corpses rise from thedead, they have trouble finding
their way out so they dig in thewrong direction.
Marissa (22:30):
So where are they found all this? These people the
bodies, this area became knownas Hell's half acre, for obvious
reasons.
Matthew (22:38):
Because they didn't use the fucking real amount of the
acreage that they had. Yeah,really. This is just one half
acre I mean, we would never havefound this shit if they actually
put forth some effort. A littlefurther
Marissa (22:49):
garden and an apple orchards that means like the the
soil was not as was it was morelike turned up, I guess. Sure.
It was easy to dig in. To putthe bodies there. I'm just
Matthew (22:59):
saying you dig a body pet somewhere where people gonna
go fucking snooping around? Idon't know. I mean, I also get
it. You buried the bodiesunderneath your apple orchards
and your your gardener. Andthat's just that's like longtime
fertilizers as it decomposes.
All right. All right. All right.
Vendors you thought this wasgoing to be this is a long term
projects. Okay.
Marissa (23:20):
A $1,000 reward, which is about $22,000. Now, it was
offered for information leadingto the vendor family arrest, and
shortly after the governorGovernor added an additional
$2,000 which is about 45,000 tothe reward, if all four could be
apprehended. Okay, news of themurders spread fast. And as they
(23:40):
do, people came from all over tocheck out the scene of the
crime.
Matthew (23:44):
Oh, yeah, let's trample some evidence. Yes, 1000s of
Marissa (23:47):
people descended upon the farmstead ripping the cabin
apart for souvenirs given downto the bricks lining the cellar.
I mean, I don't know I'msurprised still about
Matthew (23:57):
these things. But yeah, I was the first two times we
heard Yeah,
Marissa (24:00):
it happens every frickin time. Reporters came
from all over as far away asChicago and New York to report
on the story. People found outthat it seemed the vendors
hadn't been quite what theyseemed the only two who had been
who had been related by blood.
Were Elvira and Kate, mother anddaughter.
Matthew (24:19):
Oh, okay. Yeah,
Marissa (24:21):
they ran their business as a shop and in and when
visitors stopped in, they werebe they would be seated at the
table with their back the largedividing canvas that separated
the two parts of the cabin. Katewould then come in and start to
charm them and distract them.
She was known to be quitecharming, pretty and was able to
hold their attention. And whileshe has
Matthew (24:45):
their huge tracts of land, see, that's why we went
with Elvira Well, we're just
Marissa (24:48):
okay. So when she had their attention or whatever
means the vendor men would stepout from behind the canvas and
hit the poor traveller in theback would head whack Yeah, with
a hammer.
Matthew (25:00):
Ah, this was the turn of balls coming back. Then
Marissa (25:03):
the women would search the corpse for money, getting
everything of value and thendumping the corpse into the
trapdoor. Oh, I guess it's beena while since this research,
we're Kate would slit the throatso yes, they did leave the
bodies into the pit.
Matthew (25:18):
But they dropped them into the pit where Kate was
already waiting to slip tothrow, and then climb back out.
Marissa (25:25):
I think she slit the throat in the trapdoor because
later that night, the body wouldbe buried in the garden, but not
until later that night. Yeah,
Matthew (25:33):
so they are just dropping their their Yeah,
they're draining it out. Andthis actually super easy
cleanup.
Marissa (25:40):
Yeah, this actually worked for a while for them. But
eventually they murdered thewrong people. As you do as you
do, a family and daughter lastname longer, went missing in the
winter of 1872. Dr. York hadactually come by looking for
them stopping at homesteadsalong the way. He made it as far
as Fort Scott, which is actuallypast where the vendors live. He
(26:03):
made their safely where hisbrother lived. But then he had
begun to return home toindependence. But he never made
it. So they knew he made it allthe way to Fort Scott. But he
didn't make it. His two brotherslived at both of those places.
So there's one brother in FortScott and one brother in
independence. So they werecommunicating and they knew very
well when he met went missing.
They knew of his plans. So
Matthew (26:26):
why not like a ton of places? And this time? I mean,
if this is the mainthoroughfare, right, so
Marissa (26:33):
when he didn't return, I mean, yeah, there were only
there was a pretty good path.
They knew he was going so theycould play where he was going.
Matthew (26:42):
And if he's and if he's like stopping and asking these
questions, you can basicallyjust triangulate based upon who
last saw him somewhere
Marissa (26:48):
my brother come by here. So when he didn't return
home I searched party wasorganized with 50 men who went
from homestead to homesteadasking questions. They even
stopped at the vendor home andspoke with them, where the
vendors convinced the searchparty that the doctor had left
by admitting that he had stoppedthere. But he must have loved
and been stopped by the Indianswho had murdered him. And they
(27:12):
convinced the search party thisis what happened. Sure.
Matthew (27:15):
The best the best lies from one that contains a bit of
truth. Yeah,
Marissa (27:18):
I mean, it could have happened. So Kate, someone who
claimed to have psychic giftsoffered to search for him using
her powers. Nice. Yes. Andbecause this suspicion was
lifted from vendors, sure. Andafter the meeting about the
problem of missing people in thearea that the vendors attended,
the vendors fled and the bodieswere found, including the doctor
(27:40):
and Mr. Longer and his daughter,who was only about seven or
eight years old.
Matthew (27:45):
Oh, yeah. When they get away from a child murder on
Macabrepedia I
Marissa (27:49):
know it's just there's only one but yeah, okay. I know.
Matthew (27:53):
That doesn't matter how many we have.
Marissa (27:57):
I know. We specifically steered away from some Yeah,
Matthew (28:00):
you've made that well, that those are the moments that
like make like these, like a lotof murders like really stick is
either the huge body count orinvolving children. Yeah, for
sure. Over the course of 200years when we're covering these
things.
Marissa (28:17):
When they found the girl's body she had injuries
that weren't like the othercorpses. They were bruises and
cuts all over her body. Theyspeculated that she may have
been buried alive. Yeah, herbreastplate had been dented and
word. Her arm was broken. herright knee had been wrenched
from its socket, and her leg wasdoubled up onto her body. The
(28:39):
other bodies found on theproperty belonged to Henry
McKenzie, Ben Brown, WF Makati,John Gregory, and a woman and
man who are never identified.
Johnny boy's body was found inthe well. There were also
multiple dismembered body partsof other victims, they had no
way of identifying. And fourmore bodies were later found
outside the property and drumCreek and surrounding area with
(29:01):
crushed heads and slit throats.
It's speculated that all ofthese people were killed by the
vendors who were able to gainjust $4,600 for two teams of
horses and wagons, a pony and asaddle from killing all these
guys.
Matthew (29:19):
Yeah, $4,600 I mean, what's that? 80,000 It's not
Marissa (29:23):
nothing,
Matthew (29:24):
but it's a lot of bodies for a pony.
Marissa (29:27):
Many of the men the vendors killed had nothing of
value on their person. So it'sbelieved that they may have just
been killed for sport. Or they,in one instance. A traveler came
by and he was dressed verynicely, so you will click he has
money. Yeah, but he was kind oflike an authorial guy he never
actually had money he just liketo look like he did. So when
(29:48):
they killed him, indeed haveanything on them at all. So that
was just him trying to look niceended up likely me being the
reason he died. So I thinklifeless and look like a slob
Matthew (30:01):
well I mean I'm when I was at my absolute well not my
absolute poorest but one of mypoor moments in life I would do
that sometimes is dressed upnice nicer just to try to make
myself feel better. Yeah. Andthen I made the mistake of
picking up a person who may havebeen trying to get me into a
secluded area so that he couldtry to rob me. But I threatened
(30:25):
him first, I think and I scaredhim away. Yeah, that's a story
for another Macabrepedia Yeah,but yeah, that also another
lesson Hey, guys, don't pick upstrangers. No, not not not not
no matter what their sob storyis at two in the morning in a
Walmart. Nope.
Marissa (30:44):
No, I'm sure your heart was in the right place. But
yeah, well, it was for a littlewhile.
Matthew (30:47):
And then like I said, I then had to, and then my
patients was at an end. We'llsave that for Patreon.
Marissa (30:56):
All right, so as word got out about these terrible
crimes, other people cameforward with their own tales of
spending time at the bender andone guy was William Pickering
who said that he stopped inwants to eat there. But he was
grossed out by the stains on thecanvas that was draped in the
middle of the cabin. Bloodspatter just stains. I don't
know. He it's you know,separated the area. But when he
(31:17):
wouldn't sit in that spotbecause it was gross to him.
Kate allegedly threatened himwith a knife after which he
fled.
Matthew (31:24):
Hmm, okay. Yeah, I guess that's a smart move.
Marissa (31:27):
Yeah, another man a priest so that he fled the cabin
after seeing one of the vendormen attempting to conceal a
large hammer. Okay, that tracksdo Yeah, they did find fresh
wagon tracks leading away fromthe vendor home, and they
followed them to theater a town12 miles away. There. They found
that the vendors had purchasedtickets on the northbound train
(31:48):
to Humboldt. They found thebinder wagon and horses nearby
the horses nearly starved todeath. So it appeared that they
had been pushed really hardalso, and had not been given
proper trip sustenance. Thetrain conductor said that he saw
Kate and John Jr. disembark atChanute and took a southbound
train to Red River Country nearDenison, Texas, before
(32:10):
ultimately fleeing to an outlawcountry between Texas and New
Mexico. Meanwhile, ma and paBender carried on the northbound
train and ultimately wound up inSt. Louis. However, nobody ever
collected the rewards offered.
But there were rumors thatseveral groups of people had
captured them and killed themvarious different ways. One even
(32:33):
claiming that they burned Katelike the witch that she was.
Another group said that they'dkilled them all on a gunfight
and then buried their bodies onthe prairie. And other claim
that they had actually calledthem and thrown their bodies in
the river.
Matthew (32:49):
Are these attempts to get the reward for this? These
are just people just call tailand well, we
Marissa (32:54):
killed them. They're gone. They never found out what
happened to them. So spoiler, Imean, come on.
Matthew (33:01):
I figured that's ready to go.
Marissa (33:03):
But nobody ever claimed the rewards and ultimately, most
people believe they just gottenaway. There was a couple who was
arrested for being MA and KateBender, but they were later
released due to lack ofevidence. Later investigation
found out that paw Bender, Johnhad actually been a man named
John Flickinger, an immigrantfrom either Germany or Holland.
(33:25):
He may have committed suicide in1884 in Lake Michigan, but
others say it was Kate and MAwho killed him for trying to run
off with all their valuables. Mawas born on Mira mag, or let's
go see our Elvira mech in theAdirondacks where she had buried
a man named George Griffith whenshe was a teenager and had a
(33:46):
dozen children by him. But hedid at some point die of a
strange hammer shaped hole inhis head. And she allegedly
killed two other husbands andsome of her older children, so
they could not testify againsther. And Kate was her daughter.
Matthew (34:00):
Okay,
Marissa (34:00):
there's a lot, but John Jr. was actually a man named
John Gabbert, who may have triedto appear much less clever, as I
said by pretending to just likeburst out in laughter to like,
avoid attracting attention,right. He and Kate appear to be
to the world brother and sister.
But they were actually likelyhusband and wife instead. They
(34:21):
were rumors that if Kate becamepregnant, they would simply bash
the infant school and once itwas born.
Matthew (34:29):
Rumors,
Marissa (34:30):
rumors deserves rumors.
Everything I'm saying right nowwas a rumor. There's no
Matthew (34:34):
BS slander in the vendors name. We got nothing. We
can't prove shit. They were badpeople. We can't prove shit.
Marissa (34:40):
Yeah, they were bad people but they seem to have
gotten away with it. I don'tknow. I mean, like one of these
stories could be true. Yeah, butwe just don't know which one. So
yeah. Later one detective claimthat he had tracked gebert John
Jr. for a while before findingout that he had died of
apoplexy. Kate was born ElizaGriffis originally, and
(35:02):
allegedly worked as a prostituteat the vendor end. tacking on a
fee for spending the night withsomeone. Kate was believed to be
the most really
Matthew (35:11):
great one stop shop.
Yeah, yeah. Get your shot, youcan shoot your load wherever you
want. That's what the ickystains were.
Marissa (35:23):
Kate was born Eliza Griffith. I just said that you
threw me off. Anyway, Kate wasbelieved to be the mastermind
behind it all. We're seeing agreat deal of the blame. As I
said, you know, people just kindof figured she was the most
charming one. And I think theywere all taken aback by her the
most because that is believedthat the vendors killed up to 20
(35:43):
people. But as they were neverfound, at least not in a way
anyone can agree upon. This isone of the biggest mysteries of
the American Old West. Nice.
Yeah, I know. It. It's actuallysaid now that the place where
the vendor property wants stoodis haunted.
Matthew (36:01):
On a ley line. That's why it was using American Gods.
There you go. It's a long book.
Read it. It is long book. It'salso a TV show. Yeah, I don't
know how much they get stoppedafter season one.
Marissa (36:16):
But um, yeah, I mean, a lot of these places that we'd
cover they seem to be hauntednow or people say they're
haunted now. So
Matthew (36:22):
yeah, have friends here. Yeah, depending on how
many bile bodies you pile upinto an area you have a good
chance of hitting some. Somehaunting?
Marissa (36:30):
For sure. So anyway, that is the story of the
benders, the bloody benders. Andso what about you, Matthew? Do
we have a McCobb? Minute? Oh,sure.
Matthew (36:40):
I thought you're gonna ask how many bodies are buried?
Oh, never tell talk about thatlater. Nope. Not even on
Patreon. It's zero beforeanybody calls the police on me.
So today's McCobb minute iscoming from. Basically, this is
pulled from an article from CNN,where a man dissolved into
(37:06):
acidic water after he falls intoa hot a hot spring at
Yellowstone. Oh, I saw that. Andthis was back in June of 2016,
where a man and his sister weredoing something referred to as
possibly as hot potting whetheryou try to find like a hot
(37:26):
spring and in like, you know,jacuzzi, natural Jacuzzi kind of
part of the issue with this,this thing is that it is
insanely hot water. And it pullsup sulfuric acid from from the
you know, the bowels of theearth. And because of that,
(37:48):
yeah, so on a trip toYellowstone, i a 23 year old man
from Oregon. What and his sisterwere in an area you're not
supposed to be in, inYellowstone, you know, because
that's what people do, right.
And they're trying to find ahotspot or a hot pot to get
into. And at one point, and I'mleaving their names out of this
(38:12):
just just because it's too new.
But at one point, the man triesto reach in to test the heat of
the water to see if it's how hotit does. Turns out very, very
hot. And he then loses hisbalance and falls into this
(38:33):
boiling pot of water. And hissister, which I don't think
there's a video for that. Shetook a video of him testing the
water. I did not do much effortinto trying to find this video
because I don't need to seethat. And it was never
supposedly released by thepolice or anything. But he fell
(38:54):
in and his sister then runs toget help. When she's trying to
get help they go there theybefore they can get out to the
area that seems a little weirdbut before they can get out to
the area like this massivethunderstorm rolls in and they
were like he's he's most likelynot going to be alive when we
(39:15):
get there. So they I don't knowI don't know the details of that
it just seems weird that theydidn't like they Time is of the
essence of this do just fellinto a into a boiling pot of
water. But they call off thesearch to try to find them or
try to retrieve him because ofthe storm and the next day they
go out there and he if it wasreported that there was no
(39:40):
remains to pull, because he invery short order. There was a
significant amount ofdissolving. Yeah, so you have to
think this is if you boilsomebody right all their all
their meaty bits boil off andturn into you know, boiled meat
bits and bones generally Oftenover time, what if you do it in
(40:02):
a pot of sulfuric acid? It'sgonna be Yeah, got nothing.
Yeah, there's like you're notgonna find hardly anything a
little bit of whatever. Butanyways,
Marissa (40:14):
I remember seeing that article. I always thought that
was kind of disturbing. Itdefinitely stuck with me.
Matthew (40:18):
Yeah, so the other parks geysers in springs are
acidic because they are fed fromlike thermal water, that that
picks up sulfuric acid as itrises to the surface. And then
the sulfuric acid is produced bymicro organisms that break down
hydrogen sulfide within rocksand soil. So yeah, don't don't
don't do that. And the otherRanger, I believe, said because
(40:43):
Yellowstone is wild, and ithasn't been overly altered by
people to make things a wholelot safer. It gets dangerous. He
said, and a place likeYellowstone, which is set aside
because of its incrediblegeothermal resources here is
even more so. But yeah, so youknow, don't don't be real
(41:05):
stupid, you know, like peoplewho take selfies at the Grand
Canyon and fall in and stuff and
Marissa (41:11):
yeah, that's terrifying. It's,
Matthew (41:15):
it's so easy not to though. You know, like, grim, it
is really easy not to die fromfalling off of a cliff or a
picture. Don't do it, that allbut Anyways, that was a McCobb
minute for you. As always, thankyou for listening. And join us
(41:35):
next week as we add anotherentry into this hour
Macabrepedia
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