August 15, 2022 • 49 mins
In a shocking case that captured the attention of the nation, the West Memphis Three were sent to jail for a crime they.. didn't commit. The final part of our Satanic Panic series.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marissa (00:00):
Macabrepedia makes light of dark subject matter
(00:02):
that may not be suitable for allaudiences. Listener discretion
is advised.
Matthew (00:10):
West Memphis Arkansas may 5 1993 at 6:30pm Terry
Hobbs, the stepfather of eightyear old Stevie branch, was seen
yelling for Stevie and his twofriends to go home by 7pm. That
same night, Mark Byers calledthe police to report that his
(00:30):
eight year old son ChristopherByers hadn't come home. The
three young friends woulddisappear that night. On May
6 1993, the bodies of the threeboys were found naked, beaten
and hogtied with their ownshoelaces. The bodies had been
dumped in a creek bed, Steviebranch and Michael Moore showed
(00:52):
signs of being beaten, but werefound to have died from
drowning. The third ChristopherByers had died from his
injuries, which includedpossible bite marks laceration,
blunt trauma, and a D skinningof his genitals. The list of
suspects would range from alocal ice cream truck driver, a
(01:13):
blood covered man and a localfast food restaurant. And the
children's parents themselvesall before resting heavily on
three teenage boys who areaccused of committing the crime
as part of a satanic ritual.
Join us as we add another entryinto this our Macabrepedia
Marissa (01:41):
Hello, and welcome to Macabrepedia a marriage of true
crime and the truly bizarre weare your hosts Marissa and
Matthew. And that sounds reallyterrible. And sounds like we are
continuing our Satanic Panicseries.
Matthew (01:55):
Yeah, really terrible is kind of what we do here at
Macabrepedia. But there's levelsYeah, well, this is this is a
crime that does involve somechildren violence. And I think
(02:15):
we're gonna have to take a breakfrom children violence for a
while I think so. But yeah, it'sthat is that that I get? I mean,
a lot of the a lot of crimesthat involve children get a lot
of attention, right. I mean, cuzthey're
Marissa (02:30):
because of how dark and terrible they're Yeah.
Matthew (02:33):
Yeah, for sure. In this, this particular crime,
this is known as the WestMemphis Three, the West Memphis
Three are actually theperpetrators or the alleged
perpetrators. To the crime. Thatwould be Jessie Misskelley.
Damien Echols and James Baldwin,three teenage boys who were
(03:01):
connected to very loosely, veryloosely connected by very
loosely. I mean, literally, noevidence to connect them to the
murder of three eight year oldboys, Stevie branch, Michael
Moore, and Christopher Byers.
Marissa (03:19):
Okay, so explain to me why they were involved with
this.
Matthew (03:23):
Well, because it's a small town, and it's a Christian
God fearing kind of town. So thebehaviors of some of these
youthful rapscallions the thesethese three teenagers started to
get some attention, particularlylike the leader of their little
(03:45):
band, their little group, DamienEchols, was known for being into
the occult he had recently priorto this, this crime. He had been
in a mental hospital. This isall stuff that would come out
during their trial more so thananything else. The what actually
(04:07):
gets them kind of linked to it.
I don't really know I don't knowthe spark that got them.
pinpointed as as the culprits.
There's there's nothing there.
Eventually, what would happen isJesse Miss Kelly would give a
confession to the crime. This,
Marissa (04:32):
that'll link you to it.
Matthew (04:33):
Yes. But Jesse is no was he? He had an IQ reportedly
of 70 to 72. So pretty low. Heeventually was brought in by
police and interrogated for 12hours. Only, like 40 ish minutes
(04:55):
of it was actually recorded andeven in this 40 ish minute Long
recorded confession. You canstill hear the direction and the
leading of the suspect from thefrom the police or from the
interrogator,
Marissa (05:10):
who did this last week and stuff last week to just very
much leading. Oh, yeah.
Matthew (05:16):
Well, I mean, if you if you have a hypothesis
Marissa (05:20):
as Yeah, you want to get that? You don't want to get
to that?
Matthew (05:23):
Yeah. So you kind of, you know, you can't, but you
kind of push the story a littlebit, but you're not supposed to
Marissa (05:30):
know. I mean, I get it, but it's not effective. And it
can lead to somebody confessingto something that they didn't
do,
Matthew (05:36):
right. And in this case, Jesse would admit guilt in
the crime, as well as he wouldimplicate the other two boys in
this crime as well. And in theconfession, he would, you can
(05:57):
tell that he's being led a bitbecause even the timeframe in
which it happens, is being beingled by the by the interrogator,
which Miss Kelly eventually, orinitially says that he implies
without actually saying thatit's that it's earlier in the
(06:21):
afternoon when this happens. Andthen the investigator would ask
something along the lines oflike, so after school, and he
would say, Yes, after school,right. Yeah. And then he would
say, the interrogator would say,Well, what happened that night?
So now it went from sometime inthe afternoon, to after school
(06:41):
to now at night, which he neversaid that it was at night and
the way that he seems to bedelivering this. Is that it?
He's He's guessing. Right? Andyou can, and this is, again, 12
hours of interrogation for a 40minute confession conversation,
definitely makes it seem likethere is quite a bit left out
there. And they would later saythat this was the he had
(07:05):
knowledge of the crime that hecouldn't have known any other
way. Only could if you lead himthat way. And you gave them that
information. You ask those rightquestions, and you have nothing
to record, no recording showingwhere you did that part. You
know, there's some questions tobe had there. The police were
(07:26):
then there, there was also,according to some sources, there
were police that had heard thatother people had had overheard,
Damien Echols, claiming that hehad done this crime, and that
the police had then tried to bugan area like bug a house and
(07:50):
then have the three boys go tothis to this house. And they
tried to get this this personwho had made this claim, try to
weasel out a confession fromthem, which never happened. Now,
the police say, according to thesources, that it was inaudible.
So you couldn't tell what theywere saying. Another person who
(08:13):
was who was the person who wastrying to get the confession out
of them said that nothing wasactually said, but it was enough
that she, she did testifyagainst them, at some point. So
did her she didn't do anything.
No, no, she testified againstagainst them that she did here.
And there was a lot of peoplewho testified. Not a lot, but
there are people who testifiedagainst them. Say, Oh, I heard
Damien, telling somebody that hekilled those boys. And the
(08:37):
defense said, Okay, what did hesay right before that? And
they're like, oh, no, what doyou say right after that?
Marissa (08:46):
I don't know. So you just happen to walk in right at
the right moment. And confess tothat, yeah, that
Matthew (08:51):
exact moment, you heard that the two sentences where he
was just happened to be braggingat a baseball or whatever, I
think was a sporting event,bragging about this, and you
happen to overhear, and theseare like other kids that are
that are on track or that aretestifying against them. So and
this is gonna be seen in an HBOdocumentary called Paradise
(09:13):
Lost. It's a three partdocumentary that takes place
over like 20 years, because itfollows her whole story. So the
after this, the boys go missing.
So we're backing up a little bitafter the boys go missing. So
we're back at like may 5, thenight of May 5 into May 6. There
(09:36):
is a search party that goes outand starts to look for the boys
and this is a pretty intensivesearch party pulling in you
know, volunteers from around thearea as well as police and
everything. And they're doingthis this search. And while
they're during the A searchTerry Hobbs, which is Stevie
(10:01):
branch's stepfather, he, he hashe comes home and then says that
he's going to go get his friendDavid Jacoby Hobbs goes to
Jacoby's house, where they hangout and play guitar together for
a while, meanwhile, has steps onis missing. Yeah. And there's a
(10:26):
search happening. Then at somepoint. Terry Hobbs says, I think
it's time to go ahead and gohelp with the search. You think
Yeah. So he while flip that hedid he then he then leaves
Jacoby to go change his clothesto go off to the search party.
(10:46):
Nobody in the search ever saysthat Terry ever shows up. Which
is a little unusual, for sure.
They would also later, muchlater there would be stories,
saying that Terry had cleanedaround the time of the crime he
(11:07):
had cleaned Stevie's room,taking all the bed linens off
and washing them even washedtheir curtains and stuff like
that. Well, this guy did it somepretty unusual labor. Now, this
is never a suspect. He's neverwrong. Well, there are people
who speculate that it was TerryHobbs. That's, that is it is a
(11:30):
possibility?
Marissa (11:31):
Well, it definitely seems suspicious. Well, he did
that.
Matthew (11:34):
Yeah. So there are some things that point to Terry as
being a possible possiblesuspect he's never tried as a
suspect. There are, like I said,there's there's a number of
suspects. And another one of thefathers, who is Mark Byers, the
adopted father of ChristopherByers, he is kind of put on as a
(12:00):
suspect. After the bodies werefound, one of the things that
were found a marking that wasfound on them was a belt buckle
mark from getting hit with abelt buckle. It was known that
that he had that he had spankedChristopher with a belt prior to
(12:23):
him going out that night. Sothere is also some stuff that
leads towards him later, andmore information would come out
that would also kind of link himto, to a possible something
suspicious, was that in this wasnever brought up in the initial
(12:43):
trial, I don't believe but in,which happens in 1994. And like
9096 9710, or I'm sorry, MarkByers would get all of his teeth
removed. After there wasspeculation that Christopher
(13:04):
Byers, I believe was ChristopherMorris had bite marks on him.
And suddenly Mark gets all ofhis teeth taken out. He would
claim that it was because hetakes seizure medicines that
were causing tooth decay, aswell as he's known that a lot of
these people seem very much intodrug and alcohol abuse,
Marissa (13:24):
which does affect your teeth, right.
Matthew (13:26):
So there and he said that he had chronic issues with
his teeth, he got them allremoved and got dentures. Well
the timing does seem a littlesuspicious, though it is a
little suspicious that rightbefore they started taking molds
of the West Memphis Three teethto try to compare it to this.
Somebody else goes and gets histeeth taken out. Also, another
thing that links him to it wasduring the filming of the
(13:50):
documentary for HBO ParadiseLost, he gave one of the
cameramen a knife, like ahunting knife. And the cameraman
for reasons I'm not exactly surehow it all came out, found that
(14:11):
there was possible blood orhuman tissue or tissue on on the
on the knife, which Mr. Byerssaid had never been used. The
HBO producers were like youbring that you bring that right
back now, you know, like you do.
You do need to know that that isevidence so that it is tested.
(14:33):
It turns out that there isblood. They bring this up to Mr.
Byers during a questioningduring the trials. And he says
that is venison from when he wascarving
Marissa (14:52):
up a deer. Did they have enough to test to see if it
was human tissue
Matthew (14:55):
they did? And then they said well, that's all fine and
good. You said they'd never beenused now. You're saying you
cleaned a deer with it? And itturns out, and he's like, Well,
I used it once. And he says,well, it's blood human blood and
says, Well, maybe I cut myselfwhen I was doing it. And he
says, well, it matches yours andChristopher's blood type. Now,
(15:18):
this isn't like a strict DNAtesting, where they can show the
all of the stuff of the DNA, butthey can tell that it's the same
type of blood. And they happento they're not biologically
related. But they do share asame blood type. Right? So a
little bit weird. He said, Well,maybe he caught himself with it,
and may have left it open. Andthat kind of just just goes on
(15:42):
by,
Marissa (15:43):
and nobody follows up on that.
Matthew (15:47):
No, not Not really.
It's, so I'm telling you, it'sreally weird how some how some
of the stuff is, there is alsoin the same at the same time.
There's, on May 5 1993, at abouteight. It's specifically so
8:42pm. But we'll say aroundaround that time, the night that
(16:10):
the boys go missing. There, aman comes into a Bojangles,
which for those who are not inan area where there's Bojangles,
it's a Kentucky Fried Chickenkind of fried chicken place.
local fast food restaurant, aman comes in, he's wearing a
sling around his arm. And hegoes into the bathroom, where he
(16:32):
apparently is bleeding orcleaning up blood or something.
They go in and they check onhim. And he's just like sitting
in a stall like bleeding. Theycall the police. The man leaves.
The police come there. Nobodythinks that this is connected,
because it's a little bitfurther away from the crime
(16:54):
scene still in the area. It'sjust like a, like a jurisdiction
or not a jurisdiction but awhatever their area of influence
so easily drivable? Oh, yeah.
And they, so they take bloodsamples from this location, the
(17:15):
police do, and conveniently loseit. And they're like, wow, wow,
while the investigator is ontrial, or are being questioned
by the defense, he says, Well,what happened to the blood
samples that were supposed to betested? What what what did what
did they find? He says, Oh, Ilost the I lost the samples. And
(17:36):
he's like, you lost the samples?
He's like, yep. Because I justdon't know what happened to him.
Now, this is a pretty small townthat doesn't have like these,
like state of the art. Thisisn't bones, you know, by bones.
I mean, the teacher, this isn'tlike, where they're dealing with
all this high tech stuff. Imean, they're, they're keeping
evidence in like grocery bagsfrom the local grocery stores
(17:57):
and stuff like that, like thisis not, this is not a really,
they are not prepared to dealwith a adolescent triple
homicide in this area. So thatthat was another suspect. There
was also a couple of suspects,who had at least passingly known
the three boys, one of which hadbeen, had been arrested for
(18:22):
moving drugs in and he had alsorun an ice cream truck through
the neighborhood. And so he wasa little bit of a suspect for a
moment, pretty much gone offalmost immediately. So let's go
back to Jessie Miss Kelly'sconfession. Yeah. This is the
(18:45):
main thing that gets them. Hegoes, he spends the day getting
hurt, you know, pressured bypolice to give this this
confession. And he gives aconfession. It's seems very much
leading. He said he makes allkinds of claims about them all
taking turns, sodomizing thekids and all this stuff and and
(19:11):
it's the basically, he confessesto everything. And it's, it
seems very much like if thepolice ask if it happened, he's
like, Yes, yesterday and yeah,and all this. So he's he just he
just gives it all out there. Hethen recants the confession at a
(19:31):
later date. He ends up becauseof this confession. He ends up
getting tried separately fromthe other two, because he
because there's there's there'slaws against confessions that
also implicate other people aswell as themselves and whatever,
(19:52):
so that he gets tried by himselfas found guilty and gets a life
First sentence, the other two,James Baldwin and Damien Echols,
which Damien actually he chosehis name to be Damien because
he's into a cult stuff. He's gotlike, you know, the black very
(20:12):
black hair and stuff like thatand he's practices Wicca and
he's very much into this kind ofspirituality occultism. He uses
enigmas and ciphers that arefrom arcane, like Aleister
Crowley kind of workbooks andstuff like that. And he's very
(20:37):
much in magic and all that.
Marissa (20:40):
Yeah. And unfortunately, that probably
made him morph target
Matthew (20:43):
hugely. So yeah, absolutely. And he'd been
arrested previously for like,breaking, entering burglary,
stuff like that. So he ends upgetting put on trial. And he had
previously been in a mentalhospital, where he had made
claims of gaining power throughthe drinking of blood, and stuff
(21:05):
like that. And then they'd saidthat he has like some kind of
audio, visual delusion, kind oflike, possible borderline
schizophrenia kind of thing. Buthe does kind of have this air of
superiority all the time. Not inlike, he seems like a perfectly
(21:26):
fine person. But he kind ofalways looks like, even when he
was like, 1617, whenever thishappened, he kind of holds
himself in a way that he alwayslooks like he's posing for an
album cover. You know, like, healways looks like I know, you
mean to cool. But when he's onwhen he's on, when he's on the
(21:47):
stand, he does seem kind ofdistant when they're asking him
questions. And according to theif you watch his his testimony,
he does kind of paint himselfinto a couple of corners
throughout his testimony. Longstory short. The two of them are
(22:08):
found guilty. James Baldwin getslife. And Ackles is given the
death penalty. No way. Yeah. SoWow. Yeah. So pretty. Pretty
unlucky being that they havenothing. Yeah, nothing. Yeah.
(22:29):
And they can't use theconfession that Miss Kelly gave
in order to bring it up incourt. That's super harsh. Yeah.
So they ended up getting thispenalty. So let's fast forward a
few years, that the 1990 96happens with the tooth and stuff
and they're trying to getappeals are trying to get a
(22:50):
retrial, all this stuff. Thereis some issues with also, during
the initial trial that there wasthat there was there was some an
issue with the jury foreman,kind of leading the judge and
the judge and him having kind oflike a little bit off colored
conversation about the theoutcome of whatever the jury
(23:13):
says. So it just it was it was alittle bit of an exchange about,
you know, what, what whathappens, what happens? The judge
said something about them havingto go get lunch before the
reading of the sentence, orsomething like that, which that
implies that the judge isexpecting a lunch after a
(23:34):
meeting and he said, You guysshould go get lunch tell the
jury to go get lunch before thereading of the sentence. Okay,
which implies that he is goingto be sentencing them Yeah.
Without without actually havingthe jury tell them if they're
Yeah, yeah.
Marissa (23:49):
So yeah, so I've had some insights show it shows a
bias. Yeah, nothing else.
Matthew (23:53):
So that's unusual. And that was never reported. This. I
don't know. I don't knowexactly. How, how trustworthy
that is. I didn't, I found it ina spot. But there was also the
handling of the evidence therewas when the when the bodies
were found, they wereimmediately pulled out of the
water their bikes because theyhad been riding bikes. Their
(24:16):
bikes were found on a bank nearnear the near the river. But
they had been they've beenpulled out as well in place
there. So the police had gone inthere and tampered with the
whole site before the coronerever got there. So the coroner
gets there, and everything'sbeen trampled on and all this
stuff is all you know, all overthe place. And there's it just
(24:40):
the whole crime scene was justimmediately just destroyed
before the coroner ever gotthere. Now, so obviously all the
evidence has been kind of Idon't want to say tampered with
but not handled properly. Againto small force. I don't really
know exactly what to do the finda body, get the body you know,
so So a bunch of stuff justwasn't wasn't really falling
(25:03):
into place quite properly there.
And then the and then there wasin 2007. So now we're jumping a
bit far ahead. There were therewas extra DNA testing that was
available in 2007, where theywere able to pull some DNA
(25:24):
evidence from the crime scene,including a hair that was from
David Jacoby. Terry Hobbs, hisfriend that he was playing
guitar with. Now, David Jacobysays it makes sense that his
(25:47):
hair would be found therebecause he did go out and do
this for the search party. AfterTerry had left. Terry never
showed up. David apparently did.
And he said he was searching inthat area. So it makes sense
that his hair up one of hishairs may have been blown and
blown by the wind down to thecreek and on to the bodies.
Marissa (26:10):
But he wasn't searching close enough to where he found
the bodies. Yeah.
Matthew (26:13):
And it was only his hair. It was only only nobody
else was possible suspect nudeshair was was was blown over
there. Also, there was possibleDNA evidence of Terry on the
shoelaces of Now Terry TerryHobbs is the stepfather of
(26:33):
Stevie branch. The shoe lacesthat had Terry's DNA on it were
tied around the ankles andwrists of Christopher Byers.
Terry says, Well, that's becauseit could happen to anybody,
because they all hung outtogether. They'd been at my
(26:54):
house, they'd been every so itwould only make sense that my
DNA can end up on somebody'sclothing, or shoes or whatever.
Also pretty loose. If you watchthe initial the initial
behaviors of everyone in thecommunity, they are like, these,
(27:17):
these three teens that are likethey're guilty as all all heck,
by 2007 2011 or two thoughtYeah, 2007 2010. Mark Byers, the
guy who had the knife that hadhis DNA on it, he he goes from
in the documentary having gunsand the other dads are like
(27:39):
taking guns and shooting likepumpkins and saying the names of
the of the of like Damien Echolsand stuff, like so they're like,
they're like, pretending tomurder these these these teams
and toxic masculinity. Yeah, sothey're sitting there and
they're like, Oh, here's one forwhat do you call it away? And
they're all like shooting likeshooting these pumpkins. And
(27:59):
it's all right. But then by 2007through 2010, like they had
changed, like Mark Byers becomesa very, very vocal person about
these teams did not do it. Likethey didn't do it. You have the
wrong people. This is this isnot justice. You we need to get
(28:22):
them out of there and find thereal people who did this. And
all this made him change hismind. Probably the evidence of
well, he he straight up and youcan find this too. He straight
up is like it was Terry Hobbs.
That's who did it. It was TerryHobbs. That's he just looks
right down at the camera. Andthey're like, Who do you think
did it and he's and before theguy even can finish the
(28:43):
sentence. He's like it was TerryHobbs. He's like, if I didn't
make that clear enough for you.
I don't know what else to tellyou. It was Terry Hobbs.
Marissa (28:51):
Well, I'm glad that he was able to move past the he
knows the the teenagers. Andand, you know, again, I said
toxic masculinity and it is in away that they deal with their
feelings that way, but likethat, was their pain, also.
Sure. You know, they were theydidn't know how to take it out.
Matthew (29:11):
To be fair on that to the there were the mothers were
saying similar things that ifthey didn't get found guilty,
that if they were ever found onthe street, that they would go
and they would kill themselves?
Absolutely. And you know, andthere was actually this kind of
a kind of a nice moment with Ithink it was I think it was
Michael Moore's mother in thedocumentary, where she's saying
(29:38):
stuff like that. And her fatheris like, you can't think like
that he was like, because whenyou think that kind of vengeance
and you hold that much hatred inyour heart, it makes it so that
you're you run the risk of notbeing able to go to heaven. If
you were to do something likethat. It would make us He didn't
go to heaven, and I'm confidentthat he's in heaven, and I'm
going to see him Again, becauseI'm going to forgive and release
(30:00):
this so that I can go and seehim again, you need to do the
same. So it's kind of like thesweet touching a little moment
in there that's kind of sharedthere. But, so but he becomes
very vocal was it then it's gotto be tearing. And in, I believe
there's that, well, I know thatoxygen release a documentary, or
is in the works of adocumentary. There's clips of it
(30:23):
that are available that arecalled the Forgotten West
Memphis Three, and the ForgottenWest Memphis, three are the
actual children, that, and I'llkind of touch on that in a
second too. But the guy who'sinvestigating this further, he's
going around and he's caught,he's trying to like, interview
people who, you know, were partof this whole thing. And he
(30:47):
interviews David Jacoby, who isclearly nervous as anything like
shaking, and this is in like,2019, right? And he's like,
shaking, and he's like, tappinghis feet. And he's messing with
his, like cigarettes and allthis stuff. And he's just like
super fidgety. And he can whatsticks to me, as he keeps
(31:09):
saying, like, he's like cryingand stuff, too. And it's like,
it's so weird, because even theparents aren't quite, quite as
as broken up about it as heseems to be. And again, I don't
know, I don't know, what if he,what his what his life was like.
So I don't know if he I don'tknow nothing about this guy. But
(31:29):
something that really stuck outto me is he keeps saying, what
did they see that would make itso that somebody would do this
to them? What did they see?
Which is an unusual thing tojust draw a conclusion, like,
for? I don't think that mostmurders happen because somebody
sees something. Most murdershappen, either because of some
(31:54):
kind of personal thing, or as arandom act of violence, but it's
an attack of opportunity, kindof a thing. What did they want
heat? Because he was sayingstuff like, what did they walk
up on? That would lead someoneto do this to them? You know, so
he's implying that they sawsomething they weren't supposed
to see? Which is weird, in myopinion,
Marissa (32:15):
is quite strange.
Matthew (32:17):
It's very unusual. It just seems it seems to have
some, it seems to have a bit of
Marissa (32:25):
why you think he takes off?
Matthew (32:29):
It seems it seems to me that he knows that they saw
something. That's what I mean.
Yeah. He knows that they sawsomething that if he knows that
they saw something. He knowswhat they saw. Or at least he
knows. Yeah. And that very muchpoints to a much, much better
idea as to where his hair hadcome from. Right. So 2007 new
DNA evidence comes comes up.
(32:54):
Another thing that was found inthe same kind of time, was that
Terry Hobbs also had Stevie'spocket knife. Now, Stevie was a
very proud boy scout or CubScout. He, at the time of his
death, he was wearing his CubScout uniforms are very, very
(33:14):
proud. He's wearing his littleso you would treasure that
pocket knife. Yeah, he never Hewas never anywhere without it.
And he was very proud of being ascout and stuff. That's why he
wore when he wasn't even at alittle the meetings and stuff
like that. But Terry hadStevie's pocket knife, which
seems a bit unusual. So that'sanother thing that points
towards Terry also, possibly.
And I'm not trying to say he didit. Because as far as the case
(33:35):
goes, those three teenagers theydid it found guilty. End of
story. This other set well, thisstory doesn't sit well with some
pretty big name musiccelebrities. So the Dixie
Chicks. Eddie Vetter, from PearlJam. Just a number of like
(33:58):
celebrity musicians start tolike come to their aid and start
trying to drum up attention theattention Yeah, so they're so
they're they're trying to drumup some attention to focus on
this some support for this.
They're trying to help fund newresearch and new DNA testing and
(34:21):
all this stuff. August 19 2011,Eccles, Baldwin and Miss Kelly,
except something called theAlford plea.
Marissa (34:33):
What does that mean?
Matthew (34:34):
So an AR so the the Alford plea is a plea that
allows you to claim innocence,with the recognition that the
prosecution has enough evidencethat if there was a retrial they
(34:55):
would be able to convict youwhich is is kind of unusual,
right? So it's
Marissa (35:02):
unusual, as you said, I don't have enough evidence, but
I don't
Matthew (35:05):
have enough evidence.
Yeah. But this retrial or this,this, this plea, if they accept
it will allow them to have theirsentence reduced to 18 years and
78 days, which is the amount oftime that they had been in
prison at the time of thisoffer. So basically, you accept
(35:25):
this plea deal, you get to goout, you get you get to leave.
And James Baldwin is was veryagainst this idea. He was like,
No, retry, let's go to retry goto retry. He ultimately accepted
it, because Damien, is on deathrow. Oh, yeah. So they could go
(35:48):
to it's an opportunity to savehim from a possible death
sentence. And it's his bestfriend. So he ultimately takes
it and basically saves as savedhis friend's life, that all
three of them are released, theyare still considered guilty of
(36:09):
the crime. And because of this,after new DNA evidence, or new
DNA technology is now available,they cannot get anyone to test
it and bring it to trial.
Because judges are stating thatbecause they're free, they can't
(36:35):
actually claim like habeascorpus or anything like that. So
that they don't, they're notgoing to continue to keep
bringing new evidence in here,because it's basically Case
Closed. So most people wouldagree, though, that there wasn't
enough evidence to link them toto it. So if it did go to go to
a retrial, they probably wouldhave been, they probably it
(36:57):
probably would have been foundnot guilty.
Marissa (36:59):
Yeah, but I guess if you know, time is a factor if
you're on death row. So
Matthew (37:03):
yeah, I don't know exactly how that was all going.
Going down. But it also justlike it, why take that chance,
if you can save your yourfriend's life, right. So it was
it was it was cool that theythat they did that. So they are
all free at this point in time,effectively, and they're still
(37:24):
fighting for this and they'restill trying to bring this
stuff. But the but the thejudges, the judge isn't the
they're not willing to retry anynew DNA because as far as as far
as the case is concerned, it'sover there. They're guilty. They
admitted it. And in doing so,with the acceptance of the
Alford plea and their release,they also agree that they can't
(37:46):
sue the state of Arkansas, forwrongful imprisonment, right. So
they get out of jail. But it Imean, even bringing the Alford
plea to the table. To me, I kindof feel like Arkansas. Y'all
know, y'all know you did this?
Yeah. You know, and you're justthe now you're trying to like,
(38:06):
but you're trying to save yourown ass at that point. Right. So
these guys are there they are.
Particularly, as far as I think,from what I can find on like, on
a quick search for these guys.
James Baldwin is still like,heavily involved as like a
director of proclaim justice.orgwhich tries to free or exonerate
(38:31):
is that the right word? Peoplewho are wrongfully imprisoned
and so he's part of that programas well. And then Jesse Miss
Kelly was, like, went to acommunity college to become a
mechanic or something alongthose lines. And Damien Echols
(38:52):
has, kind of, you know, palledaround with with with some of
those celebrities, and dependingon when you listen to this
September of 2022, he's hostinga ritual release a retreat in
California, where you can joinhim and a writing partner to
(39:18):
learn about magical rituals andinner consciousness and energy
projection. So he's still firmlyin in that lineup. Super cool.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so they'reout. They're still upset about
(39:39):
it. And there's doesn't reallyseem like they're really gonna
get a whole lot of closure onthis. It's still obviously heavy
and hangs, hangs over. They'realive and they're definitely
very much identified by that.
But yeah, you can check out theParadise Lost series on HBO.
(40:00):
Still, the oxygen, the ForgottenWest Memphis Three. The reason
they're forgotten is becauseit's pretty much it's pretty
much known that their killersare out there like, you know,
and it's not the it's not thequote unquote West methods three
the teams. These guys they'renot getting any justice and
(40:22):
neither are the West MemphisThree because they're they're
also preventing them fromgetting the justice because
they're effectively taking thedrop for taking the fall for it,
you know,
Marissa (40:32):
intentionally but yeah,
Matthew (40:35):
I'm not saying like, you know, there's
Marissa (40:38):
it's just so sad I mean the detail of that the boy with
his little boy scout jacket onbecause he was so proud of it
like that's just
Matthew (40:45):
yeah, and there's a lot more to this to the story as
well I do. Highly recommendthat, that that you guys if
anybody's out there who'sinterested in this, go look at
some of these other othersources because it's it's really
It's fascinating how howmishandled this whole situation
(41:08):
was just as a kind of an update.
The John Mark Byers, the fatherof CRISPR virus, he he died in
2020 in a car accident at theage of 63. And Melissa Byers,
the mother of Christopher virus,she died under somewhat
(41:32):
suspicious circumstances, thecause of death was most likely a
possible drug overdose. Back in1996. Mark Byers was there, even
though that they had been kindof going through some issues. He
had, she had moved back in withher parents and he believe it
(41:52):
was she moved back in with herparents. And he showed up at one
point, and during his stay thereshe she expired. And yeah, that
was only three years after,after the death of her of her
(42:14):
son. As far as like I said, withDavid Jacoby, he, he's he
someone that a lot of the otherpeople are in the more recent
documentaries as well. So thosethey can kind of they have kind
of their own updates for that.
So you can go see those if youwish. And now we should have our
(42:41):
theme music plan to bring us into Marisa is McCobb mana.
Marissa (42:48):
Yes. So today's McCobb minute takes us to Canada.
Matthew (42:54):
We're very McCobb place.
Marissa (42:57):
Drinking fast or drink it's slow but the lips have got
to touch the toe. 1973 a formercowboy named Nick Stephenson
found a jar in a cabin on theoutskirts of Dawson City Yukon.
inside the jar was alcohol and ahuman toe preserved within it.
Stevenson took it to thedowntown hotel where patrons can
drink out of the pickled toejar. If you do you get a
(43:20):
certificate to a membership tothe sour toe cocktail Club,
which actually has approximately9500 members.
Matthew (43:28):
So not very exclusive.
Not super fun. You
Marissa (43:30):
know, the same toe is always used well for a while.
Although it has had to bereplaced a few times after
accidentally being swallowed.
Matthew (43:40):
Yeah, how where are they getting all their toes?
Marissa (43:43):
Okay, so the replacement toes are willingly
donated after being lost toinoperable corns frostbite a
myriad of reasons for losingyour toes
Matthew (43:54):
and operable corns keep your certificate that's Yep. And
operable.
Marissa (44:02):
Yep. Seems like they must be followed swallowed
pretty frequently because thefirst toe was swallowed in 1980
and the second one was not lotwas swallowed Not long
afterward. The third toe wasswallowed in 1983 on a toes in
quick succession here. It is a$2,500 fine if you swallow the
toe. Oh, wow.
Matthew (44:23):
Yeah. enforced by who?
The toe police? Yeah, I mean,come on toes.
Marissa (44:30):
I'm sure it's very various toes because it could
happen to any of your toes andlimb I happen to
Matthew (44:36):
swallow and a big toe Abby grow. That's that is a
tough thing to do.
Marissa (44:41):
Now. The most recent toe was donated with a message
that said to not wear open toedsandals while mowing the lawn.
It's good advice. The cocktailrecipe is one ounce minimum of
alcohol one dehydrated toe andgarnish for courage. Notice
garnish with courage I'm sorry.
So basically just alcohol andtau.
Matthew (45:04):
Yeah, absolutely. So that's that's how that's how I'm
toes. I'm supposed to be takenstraight.
Marissa (45:10):
That's not the the club has acquired over 25 toes since
it's been doing this alldonated. But yeah,
Matthew (45:18):
I mean, I guess I mean, if you have me probably have a
pool of certificate holders thatare willing to give their toes
for it.
Marissa (45:26):
Yeah. I mean, if somebody has been there, and
they're aware of it, and thenthey have to lose their toe.
They're like, You know what Icould do with that.
Matthew (45:30):
All right. No, okay.
Here's the thing. How were theygoing to get their toes removed?
Marissa (45:36):
That they get to keep their toes? Yeah, most places
won't let you keep
Matthew (45:38):
your body part can keep shit when I get stuff. Yeah, I
don't know. Not that I have aton of stuff that I've ever had
taken out of my body. I did getto keep a massive Splinter that
went into my thigh. When I wasin the body part when I was
little. Yeah. Yeah, I had a slipunderneath my cousin's bed.
While we were like playing andhe had like hardwood floors. So
(45:59):
you could slide really well.
Yeah. And, and I almost alwaysexclusively wore sweatpants,
just like a sweat suit. So Iwent running into the room and
went to slide under the bed andI slid, and my probably 200
pound plus young body slid overa splinter in the wood on the
floor and was about three,probably about three inches of
(46:23):
wood through my thigh. Wow, thatwas pretty rough. Yikes. I got
brought to the hospital. And Ihad I don't know if you've ever
played the the board gamemousetrap. And then that when it
gets kind of what's it called?
The the type of machine?
Marissa (46:41):
Oh, I don't know, if you asked me I wouldn't know.
Matthew (46:44):
Whatever someone were, it's the, you know, I keep
thinking Rorschach tests, butit's not started with a G I
think anyways, it it's the thingwhere you know, you have a
little you drop a marble andthen that hits hits a bell and
this happens at the end result.
Is this the Goldberg RubeGoldberg. That's it Goldberg
(47:05):
this. G. So the little net thatfalls elastic cap that falls on
the mouse was used to hold mysweat pants up over the wound. I
was I got brought to thehospital ingenuity. Yeah.
Thanks, dad. But yeah, and thenthat was that was fun, too,
because they'd numbed it up andI got to watch the doctor try to
(47:27):
tear it out of my skin with justa pair of like medical pliers, I
guess. And he didn't want tohave to actually like cut it
out. So he just tried to pull itout and pulled it and it snapped
and go in again and pull it out.
And I don't recall ever feelinganything from it after the
initial stab, stab Aroo. Butyeah, I got to keep that in a
little urine sample. Jar. Andthen I think I left it at my
(47:50):
cousin's house. I don't throw itaway at some point. I feel like
there was other bits and piecesof my body that I tried to keep.
And I wasn't able to.
Marissa (48:01):
I was gonna ask if I keep an ID once, but then I was
like an athlete. So I didn't.
Matthew (48:06):
Why? Weird? Well, it's weird. But I shouldn't be like,
we only have
Marissa (48:11):
one or two. I would have asked anyway. But I didn't
really care that much.
Matthew (48:15):
It was a thought well, the missed opportunity. Yeah.
Well, that will do it for usthis week for this entry. If you
would like to reach out, feelfree to do so you can reach us
on Twitter, and Facebook atMacabrepedia.
Marissa (48:31):
Also on Instagram at Macabrepediapod and email and
macabrepediapod@gmail.com.
Matthew (48:37):
And thank you to all of our patrons over on Patreon. If
you like what we do here, youcan support us over there it is
$5 It is the you can you cangive whatever you like but $5
will get you a couple of extraepisodes. And a couple little
little tidbits. If you like ifyou'd like bitten your kids,
(48:57):
that's where you can do it overthere on Patreon. And you can
check us out over there. Andthat also gives us access it
gives you access to discord,which occasionally has a few
unusual conversations about youknow, wrestling and murderers
and people named magics. Andpercentage wise it's mostly
(49:20):
mostly people with the nicknameof magic, but thank you as
always, and join us next week aswe add another entry into this
our Macabrepedia
Macabrepedia makes light of dark subject matter
(00:02):
that may not be suitable for allaudiences. Listener discretion
is advised.
Matthew (00:10):
West Memphis Arkansas may 5 1993 at 6:30pm Terry
Hobbs, the stepfather of eightyear old Stevie branch, was seen
yelling for Stevie and his twofriends to go home by 7pm. That
same night, Mark Byers calledthe police to report that his
(00:30):
eight year old son ChristopherByers hadn't come home. The
three young friends woulddisappear that night. On May
6 1993, the bodies of the threeboys were found naked, beaten
and hogtied with their ownshoelaces. The bodies had been
dumped in a creek bed, Steviebranch and Michael Moore showed
(00:52):
signs of being beaten, but werefound to have died from
drowning. The third ChristopherByers had died from his
injuries, which includedpossible bite marks laceration,
blunt trauma, and a D skinningof his genitals. The list of
suspects would range from alocal ice cream truck driver, a
(01:13):
blood covered man and a localfast food restaurant. And the
children's parents themselvesall before resting heavily on
three teenage boys who areaccused of committing the crime
as part of a satanic ritual.
Join us as we add another entryinto this our Macabrepedia
Marissa (01:41):
Hello, and welcome to Macabrepedia a marriage of true
crime and the truly bizarre weare your hosts Marissa and
Matthew. And that sounds reallyterrible. And sounds like we are
continuing our Satanic Panicseries.
Matthew (01:55):
Yeah, really terrible is kind of what we do here at
Macabrepedia. But there's levelsYeah, well, this is this is a
crime that does involve somechildren violence. And I think
(02:15):
we're gonna have to take a breakfrom children violence for a
while I think so. But yeah, it'sthat is that that I get? I mean,
a lot of the a lot of crimesthat involve children get a lot
of attention, right. I mean, cuzthey're
Marissa (02:30):
because of how dark and terrible they're Yeah.
Matthew (02:33):
Yeah, for sure. In this, this particular crime,
this is known as the WestMemphis Three, the West Memphis
Three are actually theperpetrators or the alleged
perpetrators. To the crime. Thatwould be Jessie Misskelley.
Damien Echols and James Baldwin,three teenage boys who were
(03:01):
connected to very loosely, veryloosely connected by very
loosely. I mean, literally, noevidence to connect them to the
murder of three eight year oldboys, Stevie branch, Michael
Moore, and Christopher Byers.
Marissa (03:19):
Okay, so explain to me why they were involved with
this.
Matthew (03:23):
Well, because it's a small town, and it's a Christian
God fearing kind of town. So thebehaviors of some of these
youthful rapscallions the thesethese three teenagers started to
get some attention, particularlylike the leader of their little
(03:45):
band, their little group, DamienEchols, was known for being into
the occult he had recently priorto this, this crime. He had been
in a mental hospital. This isall stuff that would come out
during their trial more so thananything else. The what actually
(04:07):
gets them kind of linked to it.
I don't really know I don't knowthe spark that got them.
pinpointed as as the culprits.
There's there's nothing there.
Eventually, what would happen isJesse Miss Kelly would give a
confession to the crime. This,
Marissa (04:32):
that'll link you to it.
Matthew (04:33):
Yes. But Jesse is no was he? He had an IQ reportedly
of 70 to 72. So pretty low. Heeventually was brought in by
police and interrogated for 12hours. Only, like 40 ish minutes
(04:55):
of it was actually recorded andeven in this 40 ish minute Long
recorded confession. You canstill hear the direction and the
leading of the suspect from thefrom the police or from the
interrogator,
Marissa (05:10):
who did this last week and stuff last week to just very
much leading. Oh, yeah.
Matthew (05:16):
Well, I mean, if you if you have a hypothesis
Marissa (05:20):
as Yeah, you want to get that? You don't want to get
to that?
Matthew (05:23):
Yeah. So you kind of, you know, you can't, but you
kind of push the story a littlebit, but you're not supposed to
Marissa (05:30):
know. I mean, I get it, but it's not effective. And it
can lead to somebody confessingto something that they didn't
do,
Matthew (05:36):
right. And in this case, Jesse would admit guilt in
the crime, as well as he wouldimplicate the other two boys in
this crime as well. And in theconfession, he would, you can
(05:57):
tell that he's being led a bitbecause even the timeframe in
which it happens, is being beingled by the by the interrogator,
which Miss Kelly eventually, orinitially says that he implies
without actually saying thatit's that it's earlier in the
(06:21):
afternoon when this happens. Andthen the investigator would ask
something along the lines oflike, so after school, and he
would say, Yes, after school,right. Yeah. And then he would
say, the interrogator would say,Well, what happened that night?
So now it went from sometime inthe afternoon, to after school
(06:41):
to now at night, which he neversaid that it was at night and
the way that he seems to bedelivering this. Is that it?
He's He's guessing. Right? Andyou can, and this is, again, 12
hours of interrogation for a 40minute confession conversation,
definitely makes it seem likethere is quite a bit left out
there. And they would later saythat this was the he had
(07:05):
knowledge of the crime that hecouldn't have known any other
way. Only could if you lead himthat way. And you gave them that
information. You ask those rightquestions, and you have nothing
to record, no recording showingwhere you did that part. You
know, there's some questions tobe had there. The police were
(07:26):
then there, there was also,according to some sources, there
were police that had heard thatother people had had overheard,
Damien Echols, claiming that hehad done this crime, and that
the police had then tried to bugan area like bug a house and
(07:50):
then have the three boys go tothis to this house. And they
tried to get this this personwho had made this claim, try to
weasel out a confession fromthem, which never happened. Now,
the police say, according to thesources, that it was inaudible.
So you couldn't tell what theywere saying. Another person who
(08:13):
was who was the person who wastrying to get the confession out
of them said that nothing wasactually said, but it was enough
that she, she did testifyagainst them, at some point. So
did her she didn't do anything.
No, no, she testified againstagainst them that she did here.
And there was a lot of peoplewho testified. Not a lot, but
there are people who testifiedagainst them. Say, Oh, I heard
Damien, telling somebody that hekilled those boys. And the
(08:37):
defense said, Okay, what did hesay right before that? And
they're like, oh, no, what doyou say right after that?
Marissa (08:46):
I don't know. So you just happen to walk in right at
the right moment. And confess tothat, yeah, that
Matthew (08:51):
exact moment, you heard that the two sentences where he
was just happened to be braggingat a baseball or whatever, I
think was a sporting event,bragging about this, and you
happen to overhear, and theseare like other kids that are
that are on track or that aretestifying against them. So and
this is gonna be seen in an HBOdocumentary called Paradise
(09:13):
Lost. It's a three partdocumentary that takes place
over like 20 years, because itfollows her whole story. So the
after this, the boys go missing.
So we're backing up a little bitafter the boys go missing. So
we're back at like may 5, thenight of May 5 into May 6. There
(09:36):
is a search party that goes outand starts to look for the boys
and this is a pretty intensivesearch party pulling in you
know, volunteers from around thearea as well as police and
everything. And they're doingthis this search. And while
they're during the A searchTerry Hobbs, which is Stevie
(10:01):
branch's stepfather, he, he hashe comes home and then says that
he's going to go get his friendDavid Jacoby Hobbs goes to
Jacoby's house, where they hangout and play guitar together for
a while, meanwhile, has steps onis missing. Yeah. And there's a
(10:26):
search happening. Then at somepoint. Terry Hobbs says, I think
it's time to go ahead and gohelp with the search. You think
Yeah. So he while flip that hedid he then he then leaves
Jacoby to go change his clothesto go off to the search party.
(10:46):
Nobody in the search ever saysthat Terry ever shows up. Which
is a little unusual, for sure.
They would also later, muchlater there would be stories,
saying that Terry had cleanedaround the time of the crime he
(11:07):
had cleaned Stevie's room,taking all the bed linens off
and washing them even washedtheir curtains and stuff like
that. Well, this guy did it somepretty unusual labor. Now, this
is never a suspect. He's neverwrong. Well, there are people
who speculate that it was TerryHobbs. That's, that is it is a
(11:30):
possibility?
Marissa (11:31):
Well, it definitely seems suspicious. Well, he did
that.
Matthew (11:34):
Yeah. So there are some things that point to Terry as
being a possible possiblesuspect he's never tried as a
suspect. There are, like I said,there's there's a number of
suspects. And another one of thefathers, who is Mark Byers, the
adopted father of ChristopherByers, he is kind of put on as a
(12:00):
suspect. After the bodies werefound, one of the things that
were found a marking that wasfound on them was a belt buckle
mark from getting hit with abelt buckle. It was known that
that he had that he had spankedChristopher with a belt prior to
(12:23):
him going out that night. Sothere is also some stuff that
leads towards him later, andmore information would come out
that would also kind of link himto, to a possible something
suspicious, was that in this wasnever brought up in the initial
(12:43):
trial, I don't believe but in,which happens in 1994. And like
9096 9710, or I'm sorry, MarkByers would get all of his teeth
removed. After there wasspeculation that Christopher
(13:04):
Byers, I believe was ChristopherMorris had bite marks on him.
And suddenly Mark gets all ofhis teeth taken out. He would
claim that it was because hetakes seizure medicines that
were causing tooth decay, aswell as he's known that a lot of
these people seem very much intodrug and alcohol abuse,
Marissa (13:24):
which does affect your teeth, right.
Matthew (13:26):
So there and he said that he had chronic issues with
his teeth, he got them allremoved and got dentures. Well
the timing does seem a littlesuspicious, though it is a
little suspicious that rightbefore they started taking molds
of the West Memphis Three teethto try to compare it to this.
Somebody else goes and gets histeeth taken out. Also, another
thing that links him to it wasduring the filming of the
(13:50):
documentary for HBO ParadiseLost, he gave one of the
cameramen a knife, like ahunting knife. And the cameraman
for reasons I'm not exactly surehow it all came out, found that
(14:11):
there was possible blood orhuman tissue or tissue on on the
on the knife, which Mr. Byerssaid had never been used. The
HBO producers were like youbring that you bring that right
back now, you know, like you do.
You do need to know that that isevidence so that it is tested.
(14:33):
It turns out that there isblood. They bring this up to Mr.
Byers during a questioningduring the trials. And he says
that is venison from when he wascarving
Marissa (14:52):
up a deer. Did they have enough to test to see if it
was human tissue
Matthew (14:55):
they did? And then they said well, that's all fine and
good. You said they'd never beenused now. You're saying you
cleaned a deer with it? And itturns out, and he's like, Well,
I used it once. And he says,well, it's blood human blood and
says, Well, maybe I cut myselfwhen I was doing it. And he
says, well, it matches yours andChristopher's blood type. Now,
(15:18):
this isn't like a strict DNAtesting, where they can show the
all of the stuff of the DNA, butthey can tell that it's the same
type of blood. And they happento they're not biologically
related. But they do share asame blood type. Right? So a
little bit weird. He said, Well,maybe he caught himself with it,
and may have left it open. Andthat kind of just just goes on
(15:42):
by,
Marissa (15:43):
and nobody follows up on that.
Matthew (15:47):
No, not Not really.
It's, so I'm telling you, it'sreally weird how some how some
of the stuff is, there is alsoin the same at the same time.
There's, on May 5 1993, at abouteight. It's specifically so
8:42pm. But we'll say aroundaround that time, the night that
(16:10):
the boys go missing. There, aman comes into a Bojangles,
which for those who are not inan area where there's Bojangles,
it's a Kentucky Fried Chickenkind of fried chicken place.
local fast food restaurant, aman comes in, he's wearing a
sling around his arm. And hegoes into the bathroom, where he
(16:32):
apparently is bleeding orcleaning up blood or something.
They go in and they check onhim. And he's just like sitting
in a stall like bleeding. Theycall the police. The man leaves.
The police come there. Nobodythinks that this is connected,
because it's a little bitfurther away from the crime
(16:54):
scene still in the area. It'sjust like a, like a jurisdiction
or not a jurisdiction but awhatever their area of influence
so easily drivable? Oh, yeah.
And they, so they take bloodsamples from this location, the
(17:15):
police do, and conveniently loseit. And they're like, wow, wow,
while the investigator is ontrial, or are being questioned
by the defense, he says, Well,what happened to the blood
samples that were supposed to betested? What what what did what
did they find? He says, Oh, Ilost the I lost the samples. And
(17:36):
he's like, you lost the samples?
He's like, yep. Because I justdon't know what happened to him.
Now, this is a pretty small townthat doesn't have like these,
like state of the art. Thisisn't bones, you know, by bones.
I mean, the teacher, this isn'tlike, where they're dealing with
all this high tech stuff. Imean, they're, they're keeping
evidence in like grocery bagsfrom the local grocery stores
(17:57):
and stuff like that, like thisis not, this is not a really,
they are not prepared to dealwith a adolescent triple
homicide in this area. So thatthat was another suspect. There
was also a couple of suspects,who had at least passingly known
the three boys, one of which hadbeen, had been arrested for
(18:22):
moving drugs in and he had alsorun an ice cream truck through
the neighborhood. And so he wasa little bit of a suspect for a
moment, pretty much gone offalmost immediately. So let's go
back to Jessie Miss Kelly'sconfession. Yeah. This is the
(18:45):
main thing that gets them. Hegoes, he spends the day getting
hurt, you know, pressured bypolice to give this this
confession. And he gives aconfession. It's seems very much
leading. He said he makes allkinds of claims about them all
taking turns, sodomizing thekids and all this stuff and and
(19:11):
it's the basically, he confessesto everything. And it's, it
seems very much like if thepolice ask if it happened, he's
like, Yes, yesterday and yeah,and all this. So he's he just he
just gives it all out there. Hethen recants the confession at a
(19:31):
later date. He ends up becauseof this confession. He ends up
getting tried separately fromthe other two, because he
because there's there's there'slaws against confessions that
also implicate other people aswell as themselves and whatever,
(19:52):
so that he gets tried by himselfas found guilty and gets a life
First sentence, the other two,James Baldwin and Damien Echols,
which Damien actually he chosehis name to be Damien because
he's into a cult stuff. He's gotlike, you know, the black very
(20:12):
black hair and stuff like thatand he's practices Wicca and
he's very much into this kind ofspirituality occultism. He uses
enigmas and ciphers that arefrom arcane, like Aleister
Crowley kind of workbooks andstuff like that. And he's very
(20:37):
much in magic and all that.
Marissa (20:40):
Yeah. And unfortunately, that probably
made him morph target
Matthew (20:43):
hugely. So yeah, absolutely. And he'd been
arrested previously for like,breaking, entering burglary,
stuff like that. So he ends upgetting put on trial. And he had
previously been in a mentalhospital, where he had made
claims of gaining power throughthe drinking of blood, and stuff
(21:05):
like that. And then they'd saidthat he has like some kind of
audio, visual delusion, kind oflike, possible borderline
schizophrenia kind of thing. Buthe does kind of have this air of
superiority all the time. Not inlike, he seems like a perfectly
(21:26):
fine person. But he kind ofalways looks like, even when he
was like, 1617, whenever thishappened, he kind of holds
himself in a way that he alwayslooks like he's posing for an
album cover. You know, like, healways looks like I know, you
mean to cool. But when he's onwhen he's on, when he's on the
(21:47):
stand, he does seem kind ofdistant when they're asking him
questions. And according to theif you watch his his testimony,
he does kind of paint himselfinto a couple of corners
throughout his testimony. Longstory short. The two of them are
(22:08):
found guilty. James Baldwin getslife. And Ackles is given the
death penalty. No way. Yeah. SoWow. Yeah. So pretty. Pretty
unlucky being that they havenothing. Yeah, nothing. Yeah.
(22:29):
And they can't use theconfession that Miss Kelly gave
in order to bring it up incourt. That's super harsh. Yeah.
So they ended up getting thispenalty. So let's fast forward a
few years, that the 1990 96happens with the tooth and stuff
and they're trying to getappeals are trying to get a
(22:50):
retrial, all this stuff. Thereis some issues with also, during
the initial trial that there wasthat there was there was some an
issue with the jury foreman,kind of leading the judge and
the judge and him having kind oflike a little bit off colored
conversation about the theoutcome of whatever the jury
(23:13):
says. So it just it was it was alittle bit of an exchange about,
you know, what, what whathappens, what happens? The judge
said something about them havingto go get lunch before the
reading of the sentence, orsomething like that, which that
implies that the judge isexpecting a lunch after a
(23:34):
meeting and he said, You guysshould go get lunch tell the
jury to go get lunch before thereading of the sentence. Okay,
which implies that he is goingto be sentencing them Yeah.
Without without actually havingthe jury tell them if they're
Yeah, yeah.
Marissa (23:49):
So yeah, so I've had some insights show it shows a
bias. Yeah, nothing else.
Matthew (23:53):
So that's unusual. And that was never reported. This. I
don't know. I don't knowexactly. How, how trustworthy
that is. I didn't, I found it ina spot. But there was also the
handling of the evidence therewas when the when the bodies
were found, they wereimmediately pulled out of the
water their bikes because theyhad been riding bikes. Their
(24:16):
bikes were found on a bank nearnear the near the river. But
they had been they've beenpulled out as well in place
there. So the police had gone inthere and tampered with the
whole site before the coronerever got there. So the coroner
gets there, and everything'sbeen trampled on and all this
stuff is all you know, all overthe place. And there's it just
(24:40):
the whole crime scene was justimmediately just destroyed
before the coroner ever gotthere. Now, so obviously all the
evidence has been kind of Idon't want to say tampered with
but not handled properly. Againto small force. I don't really
know exactly what to do the finda body, get the body you know,
so So a bunch of stuff justwasn't wasn't really falling
(25:03):
into place quite properly there.
And then the and then there wasin 2007. So now we're jumping a
bit far ahead. There were therewas extra DNA testing that was
available in 2007, where theywere able to pull some DNA
(25:24):
evidence from the crime scene,including a hair that was from
David Jacoby. Terry Hobbs, hisfriend that he was playing
guitar with. Now, David Jacobysays it makes sense that his
(25:47):
hair would be found therebecause he did go out and do
this for the search party. AfterTerry had left. Terry never
showed up. David apparently did.
And he said he was searching inthat area. So it makes sense
that his hair up one of hishairs may have been blown and
blown by the wind down to thecreek and on to the bodies.
Marissa (26:10):
But he wasn't searching close enough to where he found
the bodies. Yeah.
Matthew (26:13):
And it was only his hair. It was only only nobody
else was possible suspect nudeshair was was was blown over
there. Also, there was possibleDNA evidence of Terry on the
shoelaces of Now Terry TerryHobbs is the stepfather of
(26:33):
Stevie branch. The shoe lacesthat had Terry's DNA on it were
tied around the ankles andwrists of Christopher Byers.
Terry says, Well, that's becauseit could happen to anybody,
because they all hung outtogether. They'd been at my
(26:54):
house, they'd been every so itwould only make sense that my
DNA can end up on somebody'sclothing, or shoes or whatever.
Also pretty loose. If you watchthe initial the initial
behaviors of everyone in thecommunity, they are like, these,
(27:17):
these three teens that are likethey're guilty as all all heck,
by 2007 2011 or two thoughtYeah, 2007 2010. Mark Byers, the
guy who had the knife that hadhis DNA on it, he he goes from
in the documentary having gunsand the other dads are like
(27:39):
taking guns and shooting likepumpkins and saying the names of
the of the of like Damien Echolsand stuff, like so they're like,
they're like, pretending tomurder these these these teams
and toxic masculinity. Yeah, sothey're sitting there and
they're like, Oh, here's one forwhat do you call it away? And
they're all like shooting likeshooting these pumpkins. And
(27:59):
it's all right. But then by 2007through 2010, like they had
changed, like Mark Byers becomesa very, very vocal person about
these teams did not do it. Likethey didn't do it. You have the
wrong people. This is this isnot justice. You we need to get
(28:22):
them out of there and find thereal people who did this. And
all this made him change hismind. Probably the evidence of
well, he he straight up and youcan find this too. He straight
up is like it was Terry Hobbs.
That's who did it. It was TerryHobbs. That's he just looks
right down at the camera. Andthey're like, Who do you think
did it and he's and before theguy even can finish the
(28:43):
sentence. He's like it was TerryHobbs. He's like, if I didn't
make that clear enough for you.
I don't know what else to tellyou. It was Terry Hobbs.
Marissa (28:51):
Well, I'm glad that he was able to move past the he
knows the the teenagers. Andand, you know, again, I said
toxic masculinity and it is in away that they deal with their
feelings that way, but likethat, was their pain, also.
Sure. You know, they were theydidn't know how to take it out.
Matthew (29:11):
To be fair on that to the there were the mothers were
saying similar things that ifthey didn't get found guilty,
that if they were ever found onthe street, that they would go
and they would kill themselves?
Absolutely. And you know, andthere was actually this kind of
a kind of a nice moment with Ithink it was I think it was
Michael Moore's mother in thedocumentary, where she's saying
(29:38):
stuff like that. And her fatheris like, you can't think like
that he was like, because whenyou think that kind of vengeance
and you hold that much hatred inyour heart, it makes it so that
you're you run the risk of notbeing able to go to heaven. If
you were to do something likethat. It would make us He didn't
go to heaven, and I'm confidentthat he's in heaven, and I'm
going to see him Again, becauseI'm going to forgive and release
(30:00):
this so that I can go and seehim again, you need to do the
same. So it's kind of like thesweet touching a little moment
in there that's kind of sharedthere. But, so but he becomes
very vocal was it then it's gotto be tearing. And in, I believe
there's that, well, I know thatoxygen release a documentary, or
is in the works of adocumentary. There's clips of it
(30:23):
that are available that arecalled the Forgotten West
Memphis Three, and the ForgottenWest Memphis, three are the
actual children, that, and I'llkind of touch on that in a
second too. But the guy who'sinvestigating this further, he's
going around and he's caught,he's trying to like, interview
people who, you know, were partof this whole thing. And he
(30:47):
interviews David Jacoby, who isclearly nervous as anything like
shaking, and this is in like,2019, right? And he's like,
shaking, and he's like, tappinghis feet. And he's messing with
his, like cigarettes and allthis stuff. And he's just like
super fidgety. And he can whatsticks to me, as he keeps
(31:09):
saying, like, he's like cryingand stuff, too. And it's like,
it's so weird, because even theparents aren't quite, quite as
as broken up about it as heseems to be. And again, I don't
know, I don't know, what if he,what his what his life was like.
So I don't know if he I don'tknow nothing about this guy. But
(31:29):
something that really stuck outto me is he keeps saying, what
did they see that would make itso that somebody would do this
to them? What did they see?
Which is an unusual thing tojust draw a conclusion, like,
for? I don't think that mostmurders happen because somebody
sees something. Most murdershappen, either because of some
(31:54):
kind of personal thing, or as arandom act of violence, but it's
an attack of opportunity, kindof a thing. What did they want
heat? Because he was sayingstuff like, what did they walk
up on? That would lead someoneto do this to them? You know, so
he's implying that they sawsomething they weren't supposed
to see? Which is weird, in myopinion,
Marissa (32:15):
is quite strange.
Matthew (32:17):
It's very unusual. It just seems it seems to have
some, it seems to have a bit of
Marissa (32:25):
why you think he takes off?
Matthew (32:29):
It seems it seems to me that he knows that they saw
something. That's what I mean.
Yeah. He knows that they sawsomething that if he knows that
they saw something. He knowswhat they saw. Or at least he
knows. Yeah. And that very muchpoints to a much, much better
idea as to where his hair hadcome from. Right. So 2007 new
DNA evidence comes comes up.
(32:54):
Another thing that was found inthe same kind of time, was that
Terry Hobbs also had Stevie'spocket knife. Now, Stevie was a
very proud boy scout or CubScout. He, at the time of his
death, he was wearing his CubScout uniforms are very, very
(33:14):
proud. He's wearing his littleso you would treasure that
pocket knife. Yeah, he never Hewas never anywhere without it.
And he was very proud of being ascout and stuff. That's why he
wore when he wasn't even at alittle the meetings and stuff
like that. But Terry hadStevie's pocket knife, which
seems a bit unusual. So that'sanother thing that points
towards Terry also, possibly.
And I'm not trying to say he didit. Because as far as the case
(33:35):
goes, those three teenagers theydid it found guilty. End of
story. This other set well, thisstory doesn't sit well with some
pretty big name musiccelebrities. So the Dixie
Chicks. Eddie Vetter, from PearlJam. Just a number of like
(33:58):
celebrity musicians start tolike come to their aid and start
trying to drum up attention theattention Yeah, so they're so
they're they're trying to drumup some attention to focus on
this some support for this.
They're trying to help fund newresearch and new DNA testing and
(34:21):
all this stuff. August 19 2011,Eccles, Baldwin and Miss Kelly,
except something called theAlford plea.
Marissa (34:33):
What does that mean?
Matthew (34:34):
So an AR so the the Alford plea is a plea that
allows you to claim innocence,with the recognition that the
prosecution has enough evidencethat if there was a retrial they
(34:55):
would be able to convict youwhich is is kind of unusual,
right? So it's
Marissa (35:02):
unusual, as you said, I don't have enough evidence, but
I don't
Matthew (35:05):
have enough evidence.
Yeah. But this retrial or this,this, this plea, if they accept
it will allow them to have theirsentence reduced to 18 years and
78 days, which is the amount oftime that they had been in
prison at the time of thisoffer. So basically, you accept
(35:25):
this plea deal, you get to goout, you get you get to leave.
And James Baldwin is was veryagainst this idea. He was like,
No, retry, let's go to retry goto retry. He ultimately accepted
it, because Damien, is on deathrow. Oh, yeah. So they could go
(35:48):
to it's an opportunity to savehim from a possible death
sentence. And it's his bestfriend. So he ultimately takes
it and basically saves as savedhis friend's life, that all
three of them are released, theyare still considered guilty of
(36:09):
the crime. And because of this,after new DNA evidence, or new
DNA technology is now available,they cannot get anyone to test
it and bring it to trial.
Because judges are stating thatbecause they're free, they can't
(36:35):
actually claim like habeascorpus or anything like that. So
that they don't, they're notgoing to continue to keep
bringing new evidence in here,because it's basically Case
Closed. So most people wouldagree, though, that there wasn't
enough evidence to link them toto it. So if it did go to go to
a retrial, they probably wouldhave been, they probably it
(36:57):
probably would have been foundnot guilty.
Marissa (36:59):
Yeah, but I guess if you know, time is a factor if
you're on death row. So
Matthew (37:03):
yeah, I don't know exactly how that was all going.
Going down. But it also justlike it, why take that chance,
if you can save your yourfriend's life, right. So it was
it was it was cool that theythat they did that. So they are
all free at this point in time,effectively, and they're still
(37:24):
fighting for this and they'restill trying to bring this
stuff. But the but the thejudges, the judge isn't the
they're not willing to retry anynew DNA because as far as as far
as the case is concerned, it'sover there. They're guilty. They
admitted it. And in doing so,with the acceptance of the
Alford plea and their release,they also agree that they can't
(37:46):
sue the state of Arkansas, forwrongful imprisonment, right. So
they get out of jail. But it Imean, even bringing the Alford
plea to the table. To me, I kindof feel like Arkansas. Y'all
know, y'all know you did this?
Yeah. You know, and you're justthe now you're trying to like,
(38:06):
but you're trying to save yourown ass at that point. Right. So
these guys are there they are.
Particularly, as far as I think,from what I can find on like, on
a quick search for these guys.
James Baldwin is still like,heavily involved as like a
director of proclaim justice.orgwhich tries to free or exonerate
(38:31):
is that the right word? Peoplewho are wrongfully imprisoned
and so he's part of that programas well. And then Jesse Miss
Kelly was, like, went to acommunity college to become a
mechanic or something alongthose lines. And Damien Echols
(38:52):
has, kind of, you know, palledaround with with with some of
those celebrities, and dependingon when you listen to this
September of 2022, he's hostinga ritual release a retreat in
California, where you can joinhim and a writing partner to
(39:18):
learn about magical rituals andinner consciousness and energy
projection. So he's still firmlyin in that lineup. Super cool.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so they'reout. They're still upset about
(39:39):
it. And there's doesn't reallyseem like they're really gonna
get a whole lot of closure onthis. It's still obviously heavy
and hangs, hangs over. They'realive and they're definitely
very much identified by that.
But yeah, you can check out theParadise Lost series on HBO.
(40:00):
Still, the oxygen, the ForgottenWest Memphis Three. The reason
they're forgotten is becauseit's pretty much it's pretty
much known that their killersare out there like, you know,
and it's not the it's not thequote unquote West methods three
the teams. These guys they'renot getting any justice and
(40:22):
neither are the West MemphisThree because they're they're
also preventing them fromgetting the justice because
they're effectively taking thedrop for taking the fall for it,
you know,
Marissa (40:32):
intentionally but yeah,
Matthew (40:35):
I'm not saying like, you know, there's
Marissa (40:38):
it's just so sad I mean the detail of that the boy with
his little boy scout jacket onbecause he was so proud of it
like that's just
Matthew (40:45):
yeah, and there's a lot more to this to the story as
well I do. Highly recommendthat, that that you guys if
anybody's out there who'sinterested in this, go look at
some of these other othersources because it's it's really
It's fascinating how howmishandled this whole situation
(41:08):
was just as a kind of an update.
The John Mark Byers, the fatherof CRISPR virus, he he died in
2020 in a car accident at theage of 63. And Melissa Byers,
the mother of Christopher virus,she died under somewhat
(41:32):
suspicious circumstances, thecause of death was most likely a
possible drug overdose. Back in1996. Mark Byers was there, even
though that they had been kindof going through some issues. He
had, she had moved back in withher parents and he believe it
(41:52):
was she moved back in with herparents. And he showed up at one
point, and during his stay thereshe she expired. And yeah, that
was only three years after,after the death of her of her
(42:14):
son. As far as like I said, withDavid Jacoby, he, he's he
someone that a lot of the otherpeople are in the more recent
documentaries as well. So thosethey can kind of they have kind
of their own updates for that.
So you can go see those if youwish. And now we should have our
(42:41):
theme music plan to bring us into Marisa is McCobb mana.
Marissa (42:48):
Yes. So today's McCobb minute takes us to Canada.
Matthew (42:54):
We're very McCobb place.
Marissa (42:57):
Drinking fast or drink it's slow but the lips have got
to touch the toe. 1973 a formercowboy named Nick Stephenson
found a jar in a cabin on theoutskirts of Dawson City Yukon.
inside the jar was alcohol and ahuman toe preserved within it.
Stevenson took it to thedowntown hotel where patrons can
drink out of the pickled toejar. If you do you get a
(43:20):
certificate to a membership tothe sour toe cocktail Club,
which actually has approximately9500 members.
Matthew (43:28):
So not very exclusive.
Not super fun. You
Marissa (43:30):
know, the same toe is always used well for a while.
Although it has had to bereplaced a few times after
accidentally being swallowed.
Matthew (43:40):
Yeah, how where are they getting all their toes?
Marissa (43:43):
Okay, so the replacement toes are willingly
donated after being lost toinoperable corns frostbite a
myriad of reasons for losingyour toes
Matthew (43:54):
and operable corns keep your certificate that's Yep. And
operable.
Marissa (44:02):
Yep. Seems like they must be followed swallowed
pretty frequently because thefirst toe was swallowed in 1980
and the second one was not lotwas swallowed Not long
afterward. The third toe wasswallowed in 1983 on a toes in
quick succession here. It is a$2,500 fine if you swallow the
toe. Oh, wow.
Matthew (44:23):
Yeah. enforced by who?
The toe police? Yeah, I mean,come on toes.
Marissa (44:30):
I'm sure it's very various toes because it could
happen to any of your toes andlimb I happen to
Matthew (44:36):
swallow and a big toe Abby grow. That's that is a
tough thing to do.
Marissa (44:41):
Now. The most recent toe was donated with a message
that said to not wear open toedsandals while mowing the lawn.
It's good advice. The cocktailrecipe is one ounce minimum of
alcohol one dehydrated toe andgarnish for courage. Notice
garnish with courage I'm sorry.
So basically just alcohol andtau.
Matthew (45:04):
Yeah, absolutely. So that's that's how that's how I'm
toes. I'm supposed to be takenstraight.
Marissa (45:10):
That's not the the club has acquired over 25 toes since
it's been doing this alldonated. But yeah,
Matthew (45:18):
I mean, I guess I mean, if you have me probably have a
pool of certificate holders thatare willing to give their toes
for it.
Marissa (45:26):
Yeah. I mean, if somebody has been there, and
they're aware of it, and thenthey have to lose their toe.
They're like, You know what Icould do with that.
Matthew (45:30):
All right. No, okay.
Here's the thing. How were theygoing to get their toes removed?
Marissa (45:36):
That they get to keep their toes? Yeah, most places
won't let you keep
Matthew (45:38):
your body part can keep shit when I get stuff. Yeah, I
don't know. Not that I have aton of stuff that I've ever had
taken out of my body. I did getto keep a massive Splinter that
went into my thigh. When I wasin the body part when I was
little. Yeah. Yeah, I had a slipunderneath my cousin's bed.
While we were like playing andhe had like hardwood floors. So
(45:59):
you could slide really well.
Yeah. And, and I almost alwaysexclusively wore sweatpants,
just like a sweat suit. So Iwent running into the room and
went to slide under the bed andI slid, and my probably 200
pound plus young body slid overa splinter in the wood on the
floor and was about three,probably about three inches of
(46:23):
wood through my thigh. Wow, thatwas pretty rough. Yikes. I got
brought to the hospital. And Ihad I don't know if you've ever
played the the board gamemousetrap. And then that when it
gets kind of what's it called?
The the type of machine?
Marissa (46:41):
Oh, I don't know, if you asked me I wouldn't know.
Matthew (46:44):
Whatever someone were, it's the, you know, I keep
thinking Rorschach tests, butit's not started with a G I
think anyways, it it's the thingwhere you know, you have a
little you drop a marble andthen that hits hits a bell and
this happens at the end result.
Is this the Goldberg RubeGoldberg. That's it Goldberg
(47:05):
this. G. So the little net thatfalls elastic cap that falls on
the mouse was used to hold mysweat pants up over the wound. I
was I got brought to thehospital ingenuity. Yeah.
Thanks, dad. But yeah, and thenthat was that was fun, too,
because they'd numbed it up andI got to watch the doctor try to
(47:27):
tear it out of my skin with justa pair of like medical pliers, I
guess. And he didn't want tohave to actually like cut it
out. So he just tried to pull itout and pulled it and it snapped
and go in again and pull it out.
And I don't recall ever feelinganything from it after the
initial stab, stab Aroo. Butyeah, I got to keep that in a
little urine sample. Jar. Andthen I think I left it at my
(47:50):
cousin's house. I don't throw itaway at some point. I feel like
there was other bits and piecesof my body that I tried to keep.
And I wasn't able to.
Marissa (48:01):
I was gonna ask if I keep an ID once, but then I was
like an athlete. So I didn't.
Matthew (48:06):
Why? Weird? Well, it's weird. But I shouldn't be like,
we only have
Marissa (48:11):
one or two. I would have asked anyway. But I didn't
really care that much.
Matthew (48:15):
It was a thought well, the missed opportunity. Yeah.
Well, that will do it for usthis week for this entry. If you
would like to reach out, feelfree to do so you can reach us
on Twitter, and Facebook atMacabrepedia.
Marissa (48:31):
Also on Instagram at Macabrepediapod and email and
macabrepediapod@gmail.com.
Matthew (48:37):
And thank you to all of our patrons over on Patreon. If
you like what we do here, youcan support us over there it is
$5 It is the you can you cangive whatever you like but $5
will get you a couple of extraepisodes. And a couple little
little tidbits. If you like ifyou'd like bitten your kids,
(48:57):
that's where you can do it overthere on Patreon. And you can
check us out over there. Andthat also gives us access it
gives you access to discord,which occasionally has a few
unusual conversations about youknow, wrestling and murderers
and people named magics. Andpercentage wise it's mostly
(49:20):
mostly people with the nicknameof magic, but thank you as
always, and join us next week aswe add another entry into this
our Macabrepedia
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com