October 18, 2024 • 21 mins
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In the second part of this two part episode, we hear stories of resilience and heartbreak about the women Julie has worked with over the years as a madam. One of the stories being Heaven, a young woman walking a very similar path with Julie’s former pimp. Julie and Ben also discuss one woman in particular- of whom we will be talking to in the next episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
She could not get away from that asshole from
nothing in the world and wetried everything.
She would take a bus fromMemphis, run away.
I sent her money, grab the bus,come up here and boom.
I think she shouldn't have cameto New York, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi everyone, my name is Ben Skye.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
And I'm Em Bon.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And welcome back to another episode of Madam, the
podcast.
In this second part of this eraand aspect of Julie's life,
we're going to be hearing moreabout some of the people that
she's met.
In the previous episode, wetalked about people that work
with her in security, peoplethat she encountered in various
parts of the sex industry, buttoday we're going to be focusing
(00:43):
a little bit more on some ofthe women that actually worked
with her.
What was that like for you,both as a sex worker and as
somebody who's gotten to knowJulie?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Honestly, it was hard hearing about some of the
stories she had to share.
The first one in particular ishard to hear because she's
talking about a woman who was ina very similar situation to her
and her pimp, that she came toNew York with Some of the
horrific and violent ways thatthis pimp treated women.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Really, it broke my heart to listen to it and to
hear Julie tell that story, andso if you're sensitive to that
kind of content, please bewarned that we're going to have
a very frank and honestdescription of both the way this
person was treated and of theexperience that this person went
through, which resultedultimately in the loss of her
(01:39):
life is there anyone inparticular that you want to talk
about?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
or heaven, you're talking about heaven.
Heaven was, you know, the pimpthat I had a long time ago.
Right, he came back to new yorkmany, many years later with
this girl that was like 18 yearsold and it was Heaven.
I named her Heaven because shewas like this really pretty
blonde girl, adorable and shewas.
He brought her to New York andI was like and I didn't like him
anymore.
But you know, he was my son'sfather, jerry's father, and his
(02:18):
name was Pretty Jerry.
He's from Minnesota, so hebrought the girl here and she
was like everybody went crazyfor Heaven, you know, that's why
I named her Heaven.
She was excellent service.
I mean, she was likeunbelievable Guys were going
crazy to see her and she wasreally nice, but she wanted to
get away from him and she triedeverything.
(02:40):
I tried to help her get awayfrom him, like you know, but she
wanted to work and it justdidn't work because he kept
coming.
She even went to work at thisplace called Pink Little
Pussycats.
They were also advertising whenUtopia died and she went to
Pink Little Pussycats.
It was alcohol.
This guy called an alcohol andwhen she got there, it was him.
He would take her and kidnapher.
(03:00):
He even took her to Tennesseeand married her and she left
again and got away.
I sent her money.
She came back to New York.
He ended up murdering her.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
He didn't go to jail for murdering her, but everyone
knows he murdered her.
So the pimp that you previouslycame here with who you got away
from, but is also the father ofone.
One of your sons comes in a lotlater with Heaven Right and
she's in a similar situation,similar spot, and you try to
help her get out.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, I really tried to help her.
This guy was like he wasobsessed with this girl.
He would not let her go.
It was horrible.
She worked for me about a yearand the next time she came back
she worked and she left theplace and she disappeared.
So we're like what happened toher?
You know where did she go?
And then the maid that workedfor us her name was Petrina she
(03:56):
said the police called because,having to stay at her house, you
know, we snuck her over thereand the police called and said
that she was found on railroadtracks beaten to death.
You know they never could provethat it was him, but everybody
knows it was him.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And when I seen her, I'm like where's Heaven, oh,
she's pregnant.
She went with some guy you know.
He told me this lying storyabout her, but then we found out
she was murdered and on theside he would brag about it.
You know what I mean.
Like to people Like, yeah, Igot that bitch, or whatever.
It was just terrible.
(04:32):
That's awful.
It is horrible.
Really sad too, because shecould not get away from this guy
.
Those are the bad things youknow with like things like this.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, but there was a whole story.
He even went.
We had an apartment on 49th,across from the worldwide plaza.
There was a parking garagethere and we were across the
street.
At 339 49th street, this guyclimbed into our window.
A client was with this girl.
He climbed in and pulled heroff.
The guy yes, pulled her off.
(05:04):
The guy drug her across thestreet.
And a client called me and said, listen, some pimp just came in
and grabbed the girl off of meand I ran.
I ran to the garage and he wascoming out of the garage.
He broke through that.
You know, like the thing thatcomes down.
He literally drove through that, broke through it and nothing
happened.
He got away with her.
(05:27):
Mean, she came back after thatagain.
But I'm just saying it wascrazy to see somebody and I was
like, wow, this girl doesn'twant to be with you, leave her
alone, you know.
And he was like stay out of mybusiness.
You know that's my bitch, mywhole, and you know it's just a
bad situation.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
that's awful, it was was horrible Because, looking
back, it's something that couldhave happened to you.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, it could have happened.
I said when I got away from himthere was, I think, so many
calls of 911.
And they tried to take me tosome domestic shelter place, but
I didn't stay.
I sat there and just leftBecause it was an office.
I'm sitting there hours andhours and I was like the hell
with this and I got the hell outof there, but thank God that I
(06:11):
did get away from him.
You know he went away forprison after that for eight
years for, you know, underagegirls and all kinds of stuff,
but I wasn't involved in likewith him at that point, that's
(06:33):
after she got out.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
and then here he brings a girl.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I see, I see, yeah.
So he went to prison in betweenthe time that you left him and
he came back with heaven, right,yeah, because the time I left I
had my own business, right.
A lot changed, you know.
And when he came to new york heused my son as a reason.
He didn't do it ever doanything for my son.
He never helped him, he neverdid anything good for him, never
.
He kidnapped him when he was ababy for me and I said if you
don't bring my son back, I'mcalling the FBI.
And he actually brought my sonto his cousins in Harlem and I
(06:59):
had to go pick him up and gethim away from there.
She called me and said come andget your baby.
He's here with me now and thankGod I got him and then I sent
him to my family.
But I went through a lot withthis pimp thing too.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, it's horrible, yeah, yeah, because if you're
making money for them, of coursethey don't want to let you go.
We used to have to go out andwork and he'd say which street
are you on?
We had to make $400.
We could not come home.
So, oh, I'm on 2nd Avenue.
Well, when you get on 4th, letme know.
(07:34):
You know, it's like that kindof a situation, but I got rid of
his ass.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Is he still alive today?
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
No, he died a few years ago.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Horribly.
I hope, no, he didn't.
No, possibly peacefully.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Heart situation, went to the hospital, didn't come
out, yeah, but he was somethingelse.
He was raised, he, he said andI met his mother this a long
time ago in tennessee.
She had a boarding house andyou know they were prostitutes.
So he grew up in a prostitution.
His mom, mary morgan, wasmurdered by a pimp and his
(08:15):
hooker.
They robbed her and they beather in the head and killed her.
Wow, yeah, and back then therewas all this like payback.
You know, so they would.
You know, I think, yeah, thingsdidn't really get resolved back
then by the cops and stuff alot no yeah, so they just got
away with a lot of stuff.
Wow, matter of fact, the guythat did a photograph.
(08:37):
It was really weird because itwas strange, because he had her
photographs with wings andclouds.
You know, it's so weird and itwas so sad, you know, because
she could not get away from thatasshole from nothing in the
world, and we tried everything.
She would take a bus fromMemphis, run away.
I sent her money, grabbed thebus, come up here and boom.
(08:58):
I think she shouldn't have cameto New York, you know.
And then we had Lola, our firstLola.
There you go, tell us aboutLola Lola.
Yeah, lola was from the Bronx.
(09:18):
She was like in her 20s.
She was unbelievable too.
Her service was like, wow, youknow, really great service.
She was really nice Lola.
She lasted up until around thattime that we all got boom In
2005,.
That's the last I saw her.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
There's one girl who left with a client, married a
client, that is.
Is that Cheyenne, or?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Raven, Raven, yeah, Raven, yeah, Raven married a
surgeon Nice.
Yeah, that was really nice.
I was happy for that.
Those kind of stories I likeand I didn't get upset with the
girls If a guy really liked agirl, you know.
One guy you know wrote me andsaid that he had cancer and
prostate cancer.
He says, why pass away?
He really liked this girl,Marilyn, and she's in there too,
(10:10):
and he wanted to see Marilyn.
He said, would you mind?
You know I really like her.
And I gave him permission, youknow.
I was like, yeah, of course,you know, if it's really
something I'm not going to standin between, you know what I
mean.
And she went with him and heretired her from the business
and she, you know Marilyn was awild maniac though yeah, she was
(10:34):
, but she was great service fromChicago.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, now she's in a nursing home in Chicago,
Somebody who used to work foryou.
Her name was Brittany.
This is somebody that you metand came to work at a couple of
your establishments and you'reall still friends, right right
yes, I wonder if you can tell ushow you met Brittany, what your
(11:00):
relationship was like when youfirst met and how your
relationship evolved.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Well, I met Brittany years ago.
She came to work for Bleecker.
She had a pimp.
She had a pimp and I guess hewent away to prison or whatever.
But I met Brittany and Iimmediately did not like her.
There was something about herthat she was, oh, I don't like
GFE, you know what I mean.
And I was like, well, that'swhy you're not making a lot of
(11:25):
money.
We just had that kind of arelationship, you know, and she
was like I was like I can'tstand this girl.
She never shuts up.
She wants to like help everyone, you know, assist this and
assist that.
You know what I'm saying Giveher advice or whatever.
And and I couldn't stand her.
And then she started hangingaround with another girl there
(11:50):
Her name was Naomi and this girllike really took advantage of
her because Brittany, she's atype of party girl.
She'll party, get drunk, youknow, goes for days like that.
And it's like I was like youcan't do that, you know, you're
like you're fucking yourself up.
But anyway, we became reallygood friends and she, she was a
type of girl that she, you know,she really helped me with
whatever I needed, like anythingI needed.
(12:10):
She was there for me to help mehave really a lot of respect,
you know.
So we became really goodfriends, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
One of the you know, brittany's been with you a
couple of times that you'veshown up for these and she, like
it was right before you wentinto the hospital or right after
you came out of the hospitalwhen you showed up and I was
helping you get out of the car,and the way that she cared for
you she does care for me, shedoes help me, yeah.
(12:38):
You know, getting you on thecurb safe and getting you down
was really sweet.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I could really tell she went to the hospital with me
.
She bothered the hell out ofthe doctors, which is like I'm
just happy, I really love her.
Now she's really grown on meand she's really tried to help
me with things.
She's like really grown on meand she's really tried to like
help me with things and she'sshe's always there for me for
certain things.
You know she's she's back intouch with the kids now and now
(13:07):
she's so happy that she's, youknow, connected with them.
So her life is changing too,you know, and things are going
good for her and she's a reallygood friend too.
She's like almost like adaughter kind of.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So I did want to make sure our listeners knew about
another project that you'reworking on, em, which is part of
your ongoing sort of questmission to chronicle the work of
sex workers and make sure thattheir stories are told, which is
Em.
You have recently completedyour very first short film.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, I just completed my first film this
summer.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's a documentary right.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes, it's a documentary short.
Originally, I sat out todocument five people that I knew
, their relationship to sex workand recovery.
These are two important thingsto me, since I identify as a sex
worker and I'm also in recovery.
I found these two subjects tobe very much intertwined.
(14:15):
And yet sex workers you know, alot of times we know that their
stories are exploited.
Their stories are inaccurate,they're not written by workers
themselves.
So I basically I just wanted torecord my friends talking about
their lives, their relationshipto sobriety and sex work, and
(14:39):
ended up Learning how to workthe camera and sound system and
filming these people.
Over the course of a couple ofmonths I learned a lot.
I want to make films, which isnot something that I necessarily
(15:00):
thought I could do, but afterthis experience, I really, I
guess, fell in love with the artof storytelling in this way.
And the documentary is calledFucking Sober.
It's about my friend, brookeJohnson, who's a BDSM adult
(15:21):
performer.
They're based in Vegas andbasically I I went to Vegas in
May of 2023 and stayed withBrooke.
We'd never met in person, wejust met online.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Um and we'd known each other for, I think, about a
year online and then I toldthem about the project, were
interested, were willing toshoot um.
I was also filming with, like Isaid, other people around that
time escorts, porn stars all ofwhom were in recovery.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
All of them were dealing with sobriety.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yes, yeah and it just ended up for a lot of different
reasons, which I'd be happy toget into in a later episode.
But basically, brooke was theone that stuck around and we
took all the footage that weshot together and I found an
(16:22):
editor who's edited this filmfor free.
It was many months, many hoursthat we spent together and he
also mentored me through thisentire process, and now we are
trying to get it in the festivalcircuit.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
What is it specifically about the
relationship between sex workand recovery that interests you
as a storyteller and as afilmmaker, and as somebody who's
invested in this work ofchronicling these stories?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Like I said, I think accurate media representation is
so important for sex workersvariety, recovery and sex work.
These things are intertwined,at least in my experience going
(17:16):
into recovery circles andhearing the amount of people
that did sex work either before,after or during their recovery
process.
It's a lot of people and thingseither specifically retaining
to the act of doing this work orjust being a worker that are
hard and challenging for thesubject of your film.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
that helped them deal with some of the as you say
difficult aspects of sex work.
You know the aspects of sexwork that they talk about, that
that can feel disempowering attimes, if that's a fair
characterization.
You know I don't want to putwords in their mouth, but but,
(18:05):
but that's certainly one of thethings that I heard in watching
the film.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah, I think both things can be a reclamation of
power doing sex work and doingrecovery and it was a really
beautiful process.
I'm just really grateful toBrooke who trusted me through
all of this, and it's just beena really incredible experience.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Again.
I've I've seen the completedfilm and I know it's just
starting to sort of work its wayinto the festival circuit right
now.
But, uh, I I want to say to ourlisteners it is a very powerful
piece of filmmaking and, um,something that you should be
very proud of, and our listenerscan check out a preview of the
film at mvonme that'sE-M-V-A-U-G-H-N dot M-E.
(18:55):
The trailer itself is reallyinspiring.
So if you like the trailer,stick around for the whole movie
.
But it's a wonderful piece andsomething you should be very
proud of, and I'm really excitedfor our listeners to get to
know more of your work in thissort of mission, this ongoing
mission that you have ofchronicling these stories,
(19:17):
because it's important work, andthis podcast is one piece of a
larger story that is your life.
So, yeah, check it out.
Fucking Sober by Em VaughnBefore we go.
I want to make sure that ourlisteners know about some other
places that they can hear Emtalk about sex work and the
(19:39):
stories that she's telling andher work chronicling the lives
of sex workers.
Em, you'll be appearing on someother podcasts about sex work
in the near future, Is thatright?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
That's true.
I just went on Stripped by Sia,a very lovely, beautiful,
incredible podcast that's beenaround for about five years.
I was lucky enough to get alittle guest slot on her show
and have an interview with herabout ethical storytelling and
(20:09):
documenting the lives of sexworkers.
We just had a really richconversation about it and that
will be available in earlyNovember.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Madam is produced and co-hosted by M Vaughn and Ben
Skye.
To subscribe to M's newsletter,where she writes about her
experiences as a sex worker,visit mvaughnme.
That's E-M-V-A-U-G-H-N dot me.
Our show is edited by NateNaxian Ward, our music was
(20:43):
composed by Timothy Reyes and,of course, the star of our show
is the madam herself, julie Moya.
Make sure to follow us onTwitter and support the show by
joining our Patreon atpatreoncom.
Slash, madam pod.
Our patrons will receive theirown print of an original artwork
by Julie herself and get accessto special bonus interviews.
(21:04):
Thanks so much for listening.
We'll see you next time.
She could not get away from that asshole from
nothing in the world and wetried everything.
She would take a bus fromMemphis, run away.
I sent her money, grab the bus,come up here and boom.
I think she shouldn't have cameto New York, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi everyone, my name is Ben Skye.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
And I'm Em Bon.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And welcome back to another episode of Madam, the
podcast.
In this second part of this eraand aspect of Julie's life,
we're going to be hearing moreabout some of the people that
she's met.
In the previous episode, wetalked about people that work
with her in security, peoplethat she encountered in various
parts of the sex industry, buttoday we're going to be focusing
(00:43):
a little bit more on some ofthe women that actually worked
with her.
What was that like for you,both as a sex worker and as
somebody who's gotten to knowJulie?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Honestly, it was hard hearing about some of the
stories she had to share.
The first one in particular ishard to hear because she's
talking about a woman who was ina very similar situation to her
and her pimp, that she came toNew York with Some of the
horrific and violent ways thatthis pimp treated women.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Really, it broke my heart to listen to it and to
hear Julie tell that story, andso if you're sensitive to that
kind of content, please bewarned that we're going to have
a very frank and honestdescription of both the way this
person was treated and of theexperience that this person went
through, which resultedultimately in the loss of her
(01:39):
life is there anyone inparticular that you want to talk
about?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
or heaven, you're talking about heaven.
Heaven was, you know, the pimpthat I had a long time ago.
Right, he came back to new yorkmany, many years later with
this girl that was like 18 yearsold and it was Heaven.
I named her Heaven because shewas like this really pretty
blonde girl, adorable and shewas.
He brought her to New York andI was like and I didn't like him
anymore.
But you know, he was my son'sfather, jerry's father, and his
(02:18):
name was Pretty Jerry.
He's from Minnesota, so hebrought the girl here and she
was like everybody went crazyfor Heaven, you know, that's why
I named her Heaven.
She was excellent service.
I mean, she was likeunbelievable Guys were going
crazy to see her and she wasreally nice, but she wanted to
get away from him and she triedeverything.
(02:40):
I tried to help her get awayfrom him, like you know, but she
wanted to work and it justdidn't work because he kept
coming.
She even went to work at thisplace called Pink Little
Pussycats.
They were also advertising whenUtopia died and she went to
Pink Little Pussycats.
It was alcohol.
This guy called an alcohol andwhen she got there, it was him.
He would take her and kidnapher.
(03:00):
He even took her to Tennesseeand married her and she left
again and got away.
I sent her money.
She came back to New York.
He ended up murdering her.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
He didn't go to jail for murdering her, but everyone
knows he murdered her.
So the pimp that you previouslycame here with who you got away
from, but is also the father ofone.
One of your sons comes in a lotlater with Heaven Right and
she's in a similar situation,similar spot, and you try to
help her get out.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, I really tried to help her.
This guy was like he wasobsessed with this girl.
He would not let her go.
It was horrible.
She worked for me about a yearand the next time she came back
she worked and she left theplace and she disappeared.
So we're like what happened toher?
You know where did she go?
And then the maid that workedfor us her name was Petrina she
(03:56):
said the police called because,having to stay at her house, you
know, we snuck her over thereand the police called and said
that she was found on railroadtracks beaten to death.
You know they never could provethat it was him, but everybody
knows it was him.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And when I seen her, I'm like where's Heaven, oh,
she's pregnant.
She went with some guy you know.
He told me this lying storyabout her, but then we found out
she was murdered and on theside he would brag about it.
You know what I mean.
Like to people Like, yeah, Igot that bitch, or whatever.
It was just terrible.
(04:32):
That's awful.
It is horrible.
Really sad too, because shecould not get away from this guy
.
Those are the bad things youknow with like things like this.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, but there was a whole story.
He even went.
We had an apartment on 49th,across from the worldwide plaza.
There was a parking garagethere and we were across the
street.
At 339 49th street, this guyclimbed into our window.
A client was with this girl.
He climbed in and pulled heroff.
The guy yes, pulled her off.
(05:04):
The guy drug her across thestreet.
And a client called me and said, listen, some pimp just came in
and grabbed the girl off of meand I ran.
I ran to the garage and he wascoming out of the garage.
He broke through that.
You know, like the thing thatcomes down.
He literally drove through that, broke through it and nothing
happened.
He got away with her.
(05:27):
Mean, she came back after thatagain.
But I'm just saying it wascrazy to see somebody and I was
like, wow, this girl doesn'twant to be with you, leave her
alone, you know.
And he was like stay out of mybusiness.
You know that's my bitch, mywhole, and you know it's just a
bad situation.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
that's awful, it was was horrible Because, looking
back, it's something that couldhave happened to you.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, it could have happened.
I said when I got away from himthere was, I think, so many
calls of 911.
And they tried to take me tosome domestic shelter place, but
I didn't stay.
I sat there and just leftBecause it was an office.
I'm sitting there hours andhours and I was like the hell
with this and I got the hell outof there, but thank God that I
(06:11):
did get away from him.
You know he went away forprison after that for eight
years for, you know, underagegirls and all kinds of stuff,
but I wasn't involved in likewith him at that point, that's
(06:33):
after she got out.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
and then here he brings a girl.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I see, I see, yeah.
So he went to prison in betweenthe time that you left him and
he came back with heaven, right,yeah, because the time I left I
had my own business, right.
A lot changed, you know.
And when he came to new york heused my son as a reason.
He didn't do it ever doanything for my son.
He never helped him, he neverdid anything good for him, never
.
He kidnapped him when he was ababy for me and I said if you
don't bring my son back, I'mcalling the FBI.
And he actually brought my sonto his cousins in Harlem and I
(06:59):
had to go pick him up and gethim away from there.
She called me and said come andget your baby.
He's here with me now and thankGod I got him and then I sent
him to my family.
But I went through a lot withthis pimp thing too.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, it's horrible, yeah, yeah, because if you're
making money for them, of coursethey don't want to let you go.
We used to have to go out andwork and he'd say which street
are you on?
We had to make $400.
We could not come home.
So, oh, I'm on 2nd Avenue.
Well, when you get on 4th, letme know.
(07:34):
You know, it's like that kindof a situation, but I got rid of
his ass.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Is he still alive today?
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
No, he died a few years ago.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Horribly.
I hope, no, he didn't.
No, possibly peacefully.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Heart situation, went to the hospital, didn't come
out, yeah, but he was somethingelse.
He was raised, he, he said andI met his mother this a long
time ago in tennessee.
She had a boarding house andyou know they were prostitutes.
So he grew up in a prostitution.
His mom, mary morgan, wasmurdered by a pimp and his
(08:15):
hooker.
They robbed her and they beather in the head and killed her.
Wow, yeah, and back then therewas all this like payback.
You know, so they would.
You know, I think, yeah, thingsdidn't really get resolved back
then by the cops and stuff alot no yeah, so they just got
away with a lot of stuff.
Wow, matter of fact, the guythat did a photograph.
(08:37):
It was really weird because itwas strange, because he had her
photographs with wings andclouds.
You know, it's so weird and itwas so sad, you know, because
she could not get away from thatasshole from nothing in the
world, and we tried everything.
She would take a bus fromMemphis, run away.
I sent her money, grabbed thebus, come up here and boom.
(08:58):
I think she shouldn't have cameto New York, you know.
And then we had Lola, our firstLola.
There you go, tell us aboutLola Lola.
Yeah, lola was from the Bronx.
(09:18):
She was like in her 20s.
She was unbelievable too.
Her service was like, wow, youknow, really great service.
She was really nice Lola.
She lasted up until around thattime that we all got boom In
2005,.
That's the last I saw her.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
There's one girl who left with a client, married a
client, that is.
Is that Cheyenne, or?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Raven, Raven, yeah, Raven, yeah, Raven married a
surgeon Nice.
Yeah, that was really nice.
I was happy for that.
Those kind of stories I likeand I didn't get upset with the
girls If a guy really liked agirl, you know.
One guy you know wrote me andsaid that he had cancer and
prostate cancer.
He says, why pass away?
He really liked this girl,Marilyn, and she's in there too,
(10:10):
and he wanted to see Marilyn.
He said, would you mind?
You know I really like her.
And I gave him permission, youknow.
I was like, yeah, of course,you know, if it's really
something I'm not going to standin between, you know what I
mean.
And she went with him and heretired her from the business
and she, you know Marilyn was awild maniac though yeah, she was
(10:34):
, but she was great service fromChicago.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, now she's in a nursing home in Chicago,
Somebody who used to work foryou.
Her name was Brittany.
This is somebody that you metand came to work at a couple of
your establishments and you'reall still friends, right right
yes, I wonder if you can tell ushow you met Brittany, what your
(11:00):
relationship was like when youfirst met and how your
relationship evolved.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Well, I met Brittany years ago.
She came to work for Bleecker.
She had a pimp.
She had a pimp and I guess hewent away to prison or whatever.
But I met Brittany and Iimmediately did not like her.
There was something about herthat she was, oh, I don't like
GFE, you know what I mean.
And I was like, well, that'swhy you're not making a lot of
(11:25):
money.
We just had that kind of arelationship, you know, and she
was like I was like I can'tstand this girl.
She never shuts up.
She wants to like help everyone, you know, assist this and
assist that.
You know what I'm saying Giveher advice or whatever.
And and I couldn't stand her.
And then she started hangingaround with another girl there
(11:50):
Her name was Naomi and this girllike really took advantage of
her because Brittany, she's atype of party girl.
She'll party, get drunk, youknow, goes for days like that.
And it's like I was like youcan't do that, you know, you're
like you're fucking yourself up.
But anyway, we became reallygood friends and she, she was a
type of girl that she, you know,she really helped me with
whatever I needed, like anythingI needed.
(12:10):
She was there for me to help mehave really a lot of respect,
you know.
So we became really goodfriends, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
One of the you know, brittany's been with you a
couple of times that you'veshown up for these and she, like
it was right before you wentinto the hospital or right after
you came out of the hospitalwhen you showed up and I was
helping you get out of the car,and the way that she cared for
you she does care for me, shedoes help me, yeah.
(12:38):
You know, getting you on thecurb safe and getting you down
was really sweet.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I could really tell she went to the hospital with me
.
She bothered the hell out ofthe doctors, which is like I'm
just happy, I really love her.
Now she's really grown on meand she's really tried to help
me with things.
She's like really grown on meand she's really tried to like
help me with things and she'sshe's always there for me for
certain things.
You know she's she's back intouch with the kids now and now
(13:07):
she's so happy that she's, youknow, connected with them.
So her life is changing too,you know, and things are going
good for her and she's a reallygood friend too.
She's like almost like adaughter kind of.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So I did want to make sure our listeners knew about
another project that you'reworking on, em, which is part of
your ongoing sort of questmission to chronicle the work of
sex workers and make sure thattheir stories are told, which is
Em.
You have recently completedyour very first short film.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, I just completed my first film this
summer.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's a documentary right.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes, it's a documentary short.
Originally, I sat out todocument five people that I knew
, their relationship to sex workand recovery.
These are two important thingsto me, since I identify as a sex
worker and I'm also in recovery.
I found these two subjects tobe very much intertwined.
(14:15):
And yet sex workers you know, alot of times we know that their
stories are exploited.
Their stories are inaccurate,they're not written by workers
themselves.
So I basically I just wanted torecord my friends talking about
their lives, their relationshipto sobriety and sex work, and
(14:39):
ended up Learning how to workthe camera and sound system and
filming these people.
Over the course of a couple ofmonths I learned a lot.
I want to make films, which isnot something that I necessarily
(15:00):
thought I could do, but afterthis experience, I really, I
guess, fell in love with the artof storytelling in this way.
And the documentary is calledFucking Sober.
It's about my friend, brookeJohnson, who's a BDSM adult
(15:21):
performer.
They're based in Vegas andbasically I I went to Vegas in
May of 2023 and stayed withBrooke.
We'd never met in person, wejust met online.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Um and we'd known each other for, I think, about a
year online and then I toldthem about the project, were
interested, were willing toshoot um.
I was also filming with, like Isaid, other people around that
time escorts, porn stars all ofwhom were in recovery.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
All of them were dealing with sobriety.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yes, yeah and it just ended up for a lot of different
reasons, which I'd be happy toget into in a later episode.
But basically, brooke was theone that stuck around and we
took all the footage that weshot together and I found an
(16:22):
editor who's edited this filmfor free.
It was many months, many hoursthat we spent together and he
also mentored me through thisentire process, and now we are
trying to get it in the festivalcircuit.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
What is it specifically about the
relationship between sex workand recovery that interests you
as a storyteller and as afilmmaker, and as somebody who's
invested in this work ofchronicling these stories?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Like I said, I think accurate media representation is
so important for sex workersvariety, recovery and sex work.
These things are intertwined,at least in my experience going
(17:16):
into recovery circles andhearing the amount of people
that did sex work either before,after or during their recovery
process.
It's a lot of people and thingseither specifically retaining
to the act of doing this work orjust being a worker that are
hard and challenging for thesubject of your film.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
that helped them deal with some of the as you say
difficult aspects of sex work.
You know the aspects of sexwork that they talk about, that
that can feel disempowering attimes, if that's a fair
characterization.
You know I don't want to putwords in their mouth, but but,
(18:05):
but that's certainly one of thethings that I heard in watching
the film.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah, I think both things can be a reclamation of
power doing sex work and doingrecovery and it was a really
beautiful process.
I'm just really grateful toBrooke who trusted me through
all of this, and it's just beena really incredible experience.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Again.
I've I've seen the completedfilm and I know it's just
starting to sort of work its wayinto the festival circuit right
now.
But, uh, I I want to say to ourlisteners it is a very powerful
piece of filmmaking and, um,something that you should be
very proud of, and our listenerscan check out a preview of the
film at mvonme that'sE-M-V-A-U-G-H-N dot M-E.
(18:55):
The trailer itself is reallyinspiring.
So if you like the trailer,stick around for the whole movie
.
But it's a wonderful piece andsomething you should be very
proud of, and I'm really excitedfor our listeners to get to
know more of your work in thissort of mission, this ongoing
mission that you have ofchronicling these stories,
(19:17):
because it's important work, andthis podcast is one piece of a
larger story that is your life.
So, yeah, check it out.
Fucking Sober by Em VaughnBefore we go.
I want to make sure that ourlisteners know about some other
places that they can hear Emtalk about sex work and the
(19:39):
stories that she's telling andher work chronicling the lives
of sex workers.
Em, you'll be appearing on someother podcasts about sex work
in the near future, Is thatright?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
That's true.
I just went on Stripped by Sia,a very lovely, beautiful,
incredible podcast that's beenaround for about five years.
I was lucky enough to get alittle guest slot on her show
and have an interview with herabout ethical storytelling and
(20:09):
documenting the lives of sexworkers.
We just had a really richconversation about it and that
will be available in earlyNovember.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Madam is produced and co-hosted by M Vaughn and Ben
Skye.
To subscribe to M's newsletter,where she writes about her
experiences as a sex worker,visit mvaughnme.
That's E-M-V-A-U-G-H-N dot me.
Our show is edited by NateNaxian Ward, our music was
(20:43):
composed by Timothy Reyes and,of course, the star of our show
is the madam herself, julie Moya.
Make sure to follow us onTwitter and support the show by
joining our Patreon atpatreoncom.
Slash, madam pod.
Our patrons will receive theirown print of an original artwork
by Julie herself and get accessto special bonus interviews.
(21:04):
Thanks so much for listening.
We'll see you next time.
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