June 16, 2024 • 29 mins
In the wake of the charges against the warden and 8 others at the Waupan Correction Institution related to prisoner deaths, Robin talks with Waupan Mayor Rohn Bishop about the history of the town, the prison, and his concerns over the charges and the prison's future.
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(00:00):
Good morning. I'm Robin Culbert andthis is Madison Forum. I guess this
morning is Wapon Mayor Ron Bishop.Of course, Wapon prison in the national
spotlight following the arrests of the formerwarden and eight other employees on charges of
misconduct and office and abuse of inmates. First of all, Mayor Bishop,
thank you so much for taking sometime for me this morning, and glad
(00:22):
to be here. Yes, andI understand, Yeah, you can't delve
too much into the aspects. Idon't know if you even know, but
well, you were aware of federalinvestigations. I believe it broke. It
was last spring, in March oftwenty twenty three that there was a lockdown,
and of course the federal investigations thatfollowed. Have you been concerned about
(00:44):
activity at WAPON for some time here, Mayor Yeah, I have been since
even before taking office. Man.A lot of it had to do with
I knew years ago already that staffingwas an issue and becoming a bigger issue.
And I'm known for my entire tenurein office, and I'm in my
third year now, always knew thatthe prison was running at like fifty one
percent. They can see fifty twopercent sometimes and that people were working mandatory
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double ships and that's not the bestsituation. And when that lockdown modified movement
went to effect, two springs agoal. It was basically the inmates.
You know that that phrase the inmatesor any meaning asylum. That's not exactly
what was happening here, but theykind of were getting hockey and we're pushing
the literally pushing some of the coreshofficers around because they knew they were understaffed
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and they felt a little emboldened.So the modified movements were put into place
to help get people to behave andto treat the staff better. It looked
like it was helping to and thensome of the tragedy. And this is
last state budget, you know,when those pain pieces went through, you
can see that that's helping morale.The prisons went way up, and the
graduating classes from the academy have beenreally good. So like the help is
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on the way has been the feelthere, and I think morale was up
and things were really improving until thisthing all hit the news and people got
charged, and I think I thinka lot of people who work at the
Persons feel like they're under attack andthey're under a spotlight, and I think
a lot of them feel like theyjust go to work every day, do
a really a tough and thankless joband aren't being appreciated for it. And
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so it's rocks the city of wuponbecause everyone who lives in a wapon knows
someone or is related to someone who'sworked in the corrections. Sure Wellpon.
One of our nicknames for a longtime was prison City and Upon prisons here.
But there's three prisons in the wuponUpon Correctional, the Dodge Correctional and
the John Birk Center, which isa minimum security prison, plus the prison
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Pharmacy and the prison farm just outsideof our city. So corrections is just
a huge part of our community andwho we are. Now. Are you
a native of wapon I? Am? Okay? So in growing up as
a young boy, did it kindof spooky? You know, ooh,
I'm living in prison city? Oris it something that you just have to
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be born and raised there? Itis just completely your way of life.
It is, It's totally we don'tthink they have it. I don't know
if they still do it. Butwhen I was in grade school, we
took a field ship to the prisonand It wasn't the sea. It wasn't
like going to the zoo. Don'tlook at it the wrong way. We
went there to learn what the jobswere that so many of the people would
end up working there. So thecorrectional officers would show you around, you
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learn the way they did things.And then we oftentimes even prisoners would come
to school and they do the questionand answer with the kids, and it
was a way of trying to teachkids they don't don't deal drugs, that
what happens to you and stuff likethat. So no, you know,
it's funny that I travel the state, that question comes up a lot.
What's it like to have a prisonin your city? And then when I
tell them there's three of them there, jaws drop, right. But the
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public library is across the streets fromupon correctional and the daycare my kids went
to is in the backyard of theprison, and the prison is surrounded by
homes. It's right in the centerof our city. You know, most
prisons are out in the country,but now we'll paint it. It's really
the central part of our city.It sure is. I've gone through many
a times, and it is avery dare I say, quaint city.
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But then all of a sudden's like, whoa, what's that? It's just
kind of you're mesmerized and a littlefrightened all at once if you're new coming
into the city. On what that? Because it's our you know, obviously
it's our Shawshank, our Alcatraz kindof. Yeah, it's old. It's
an old building. It's one hundredand seventy five years old. It's the
oldest person in the state of Wisconsin. But there's but the building itself is
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in pretty good shape. And likeyou said, it's got that neat castle
look to it. That's why it'son the National Register of Historic Places.
And you know it's it's I don'tI wouldn't call it a tourist attraction,
but it is kind of a neatthing. It's right here in the middle
of our city. Yeah, andis it still the case? I mean,
back in the day, no questionabout it. The worst of the
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worst went to wapon I'm guessing there'sstill unsavory characters, a lot of horrific
crimes inmates doing time for. Buthaven't the worst of the worst gone to
Boscobell now or even Portage? Yeah? Portage Basketball, and Walpon are the
three prisons that give the quote unquotethe worst of the worst. Okay,
So one of the things that Ido think one of the things the news
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media kind of misses in the coverage, Like nobody in Wupon wants any inhumane
treatment or anything bad to happen inthe inmate but we sometimes forget there's murderers
and rapists in there too, Likethere's a there's a population and I don't
know the percentage of it, butthere's a percent of the population, and
there are people who are never goingto get out so they have nothing to
lose, and sometimes that's where theymisbehaved. And also the mental health aspect
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of corrections is way I guess underfundedand not paying attention to. When I
toured the stake hall at the prison, like some of those people, I'm
like, why are they in aprison? They should probably be somewhere else,
And that's a very stressful job forcorrection officers. There was one prisoner
there and I found out his backstory. He's such a headache and a hassle
and so much work. They'll dotwo three weeks in Wupon, then he
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doesn't do twos and three weeks inbasketball, and I'll do two or three
weeks in portage because he wears thestaff outen geez. Yeah, Well,
it's just it's exacerbated on a statelevel here what you're dealing with with Pond,
But it sounds very much like whatsheriff's department and start dealing with on
the on the county level, andeven police departments. The mental health issue.
A lot of these people that areacting up and doing illegal things,
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many of times they should be ina mental health facility. Yeah. And
I you know, one of thethings I've learned in public services, I've
never laughed at or looked down mentalhealth issues. But I have a couple
of really close friends who've gone throughit and some who are just not the
same person. And I sometimes wonderif we all have a little bit of
it, and it just affects somepeople more than others. And I do
think it's something as a society.We're getting better at appreciating it and understanding
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it. But I think it's realand I do, and like you're right,
it's everywhere we deal with it.It's a hospital here and upon I
just mental health. It's probably abovemy pay grade. But it's a real
it's a real issue that we needto do more for. So maybe instead
of building new prisons, maybe lookingmore into developing better mental health facilities.
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Perhaps, I don't know. Butalso when these mental illnesses go on shit,
I think you would agree, theautomatic turn is to drugs or alcohol
and that's just going to make aproblem worse. Well, yeah, because
you're struggling with depression or something,so you drink beer and then you feel
better for a little while and thenit comes back. So it's not a
healthy if the loop, people getstuck in and then they make four decisions
and four choices in life and beforeyou know it, it only takes a
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few months and you have strewed thingsup and you've got a lot of work
to do. And it just ithappens to people. And some people stop
before they do something really bad,and some don't. So that's the serious
part of it. But like someof the people are just bad people.
I don't know why bad people exist, they do and they do bad things
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and they end up in a wpon Yep, yep, agreed. So
now, and this is of course, with this round of calls for closure,
they have the backdrop of this,the shocking arrest of the former warden
and eight employees at WAPON being arrestedwith following the deaths for two of the
two of the four deaths over thepast year is what they're charged with.
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But there has been calls in thepast shut it down. Are you worried
this time it's carrying more weight,because you say that's not the answer.
I am worried it's carrying more weight. And I'm not a conspiratorialist, but
part of me wonders if Madison's beensitting on their hands waiting for it to
blow so they can just build anew prison. I don't know all of
the reasons why people want a newone. I think some are conservative Republicans
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who honestly believe close people pon inGreen Bay and building one super cool maximum
security prison is the way to go. I'm going to assume their intentions good
and they may be right, AndI know Governor Tommy Thompson behind the scenes
has talked with some of those legislatorsand each proposed idea of doing something like
that and then having the WAPAN prisonremain open, but take it into a
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school, like a vocational school.For inmates, and then inmates can getting
education and they can go to wapanif they're on good behavior, and then
maybe get out of prison early togo get a job, as long as
they behave themselves. It's not aI think it's a fascinating idea that could
be looked into. But the otherside is that there's representatives from the northeast
corner of Wisconsin. They want toclose to the green Bay Prison. And
I don't think they're being totally honestas to why. They always say the
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prison's all that's out of dat andit's not doing what it's opposed to.
And I don't know if that's thecase or not. What I do know
is the green Bay Prison is locatedon the Fox River near an interstate and
it's prime development property for economic development. You could have like a canadraal Pascal
and condos or something, right.I think that's what they want. So
well, Pon's person keeps getting rankedinto the argument that green Bay and I
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just want people to work two differentcities, green Bay and the town of
Alloways. They want the prison closed, they want that land. Wellpon is
completely different. We want our prison. It's a huge employer. It's a
big part of our history, it'sa big part of who we are,
and it's in the middle of ourcity. We don't want to just obviously
they can't just turn the key andthrow it at me to here you go.
That's what we have to work through. But the people who live here
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want it to stay open, andthe people who work here, who live
here, wanted to stay open.Like the license plates in your car are
made here, and you might thinkthat weird, but it's something worth put.
No, yeah, sure, Imean, it's it's something that we
everybody you see on the roads,there's a little piece of pond driving by
you, I guess. I mean, as long as you got as long
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as you are housing. As youknow, we can recognize some of the
worst human behavior has to offer,you might as well try to find a
positive spin. Well, yeah,I mean it's just well, ponds are
very safety, which some people thinkis odd because the Christmas are here,
but the bad people are literally lockedup, so you know. Yeah,
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yeah, I was looking over someof the history, just fascinating stuff.
Boy, it has been forever ina day, I believe. I think
it's been twenty two years at leastfrom what I could find that there was
an escape. There was one intwo thousand and two, and that was
an inmate to snuck into a deliverytruck. You know, I gotta be
honest with you. I think thegovernor at the time it was Jim Doyle.
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I think they made a miss becausethey should have probably hired that guy
in security. That guy was fuck. He took so Coca Cola would come
in and out with a semi truckwith beverages, and he worked in the
kitchen and he cut out the bottomof the crates that the soda bottles would
be on. Then he climbed inand then he slid one over top of
him. The forklift picked him up, put him in the semi truck.
No one had an idea he wasin the thing. Oh my god,
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I didn't realize that. Yeah,yeah, And then the truck left and
he got himself out of the backof the semi rolled down the road,
had a buddy picked him up orsomething, and was gone. They arrested
him like a year or two laterin California. He came back to Wisconsin
there or something, and he escapedfrom that prison too. So I mean
maybe this guy should be working withus, no kidding. Yeah, So
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that Wow, that's quite a story. But since then, I haven't really
seen anything as far as I'm surethere's always you know, maybe some half
hearted attempt or something. But youhaven't had an inmate on the loose for
a couple decades now, right,No, we've had no issues. The
closest thing to an issue we hadus two summers ago. Dodge Correctional is
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the intake prison. Forever you teltmail in the system, and the squad
cars from all over the state willline up and prisoners incoming prisoners had to
use the bathroom, and they weredriving over to a city park and using
the city park bathroom while we havea parks program going on. So there's
all these great school kids running aroundand one terrified park leader as these big
inmates are handcuffed and shackled and brightorange using the bathroom. So I contacted
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the warden his dodge. He didn'tbelieve me at first, and I showed
him pictures. He's like, holycow, we don't want that. Yeah,
And so it went straight to KevinCarr Corrections, and he sent an
email to every sheriff in the stateto use the Wapon Police department bathroom or
the Wupon Prison power plant bathroom,to not use the city park when the
kids are there. And so Iwas heartbroken when I saw Warden hep get
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swept up in all of this becausein my time as mayor, of the
two gentlemen that have been the wardens, plus Nick, who's the supervisor at
Burke, we've had great lives ofcommunication. Every time there's been something between
the city and Corrections that may canof an issue, I would email ward
and AF he was always right onit. He'd get back to me that
day. He gets stuff up thechain of command, and I hope that
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the new people who come in havethat same working relationship with me in the
city. It was good and Igot to become friends with them over the
years. And that's why, juston a personal note, I was sorry
to see him get wrapped up inthis. He could have retired several years
ago, and I think he stuckaround because the prison needed someone and he
was trying to help. And it'skind of crappy that the thing and he
gets is this, Yeah, itcould be a case of well it was
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under your watch, therefore, youknow, I mean, I don't know
what I think. That's exactly whatit is. I and I get it.
Like a different radio station asked me, should all of those people have
been charged? And I froze fora second on air and I said,
I'm not can I answer that becauseI'm staying out of that. Like the
sheriff and his people have their jobto do, and corrections have their job
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to do, But as the mayor, I'm just to give the perspective of
our community and where we're coming from. Yeah, that's probably a good idea,
a sheriff, I wass can callyour sheriff. That's a good idea,
mayor. Just back to just atouch on the very infrequent escapes.
What was it back in? Itwas kind of it was very Alcatraz Shawshank
Like in eighteen ninety two, threeconvicts serving life sentences tunneled from the laundry
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and they got out under the walland escape but captured the next morning.
And that's when a big old whatwas it a few years later, man,
about fifteen years later they put thatbig wall up then around, which
is a good idea. Now,there was another escape attempt in nineteen thirty
six and two inmates were shot.So that'll stop you. Well, that'll
stop you too. And back intwo thousand and one, there wasn't it
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wasn't it wasn't a Wapon escape,but it happened in the Wapon And what
I mean by then, they've madesome changes since then. But a Milwaukee
County van with two prisoners pulled upto drop them off at the Wapon prison
and some of they'd gotten their handcutson and got out of the truck and
then took out the cop and thenwent running through the streets of Wapan.
And we call one individual right away, but the other guy made it out
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to the horror con marsh but hesurrendered the next day because the mosquitos were
too much. So, yeah,Christmas maybe better than all those mosquitos.
You know, people think, God, you break out of prison, but
then you spend the rest of yourlife. You got to hide. They're
always looking for you. You can'tget an ID, you can't do much
of anything. So unless you cansomehow, I guess, make it to
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Central America, they're going to eventuallyfind you. But yeah, we haven't
had anything majored in wipon nineteen eightytwo or nineteen eighty three at the prison
riot where the prisoners took over theprison for a few hours. But every
time something happens, they always changedpolicy. And I'm not saying it can't
happen again, but one of thereasons it doesn't is the professionalism of the
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people who work there. They allgo to an academy, they're well trained,
they have better policy, they havebetter funding. I'm a little concerned
right now because the staffing level islow, and then there's a whole bunch
of people on administrative lead. There'sthe term they're using, is there.
Every day they're walking more people out, so I don't even know who's left
to run the place. I knowthey've been bringing in some officers from different
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institutions to help cover it, andso I'm concerned that in the next month
or two something could happen because ofthe overworkedness and the understaffed of it.
And I'm just hoping the States takesit seriously, because, like I said
earlier, there's a part of methat Wonders of Madison just wouldn't wanted to
blow up so they can just seewe need a new one. Yeah,
boy, that's a dangerous game.To play for obvious reasons. What the
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outcomes can be. You can haveinnocence correctional workers. Yeah, they could
take over and they could be killed. No, you're going to have,
from the back of a better term, innocent prisoners who aren't doing anything wrong.
I mean as to absolutely. Now, Mayor when you talked to you
thrown out a figure earlier on aboutfifty two percent vacancies at the prison.
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Is that just nobody's interested or hasthere been a hiring freeze? No,
what happened was well a couple ofthings, and again it does go back
to about Acts ten. Well alittle bit before that, morale has been
getting lower and lower in the prisons, I would say in the two thousands
decades, so like when the TommyThompson Scott the Calamarra was going on.
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They really modernized and put a lotof money into corrections, and there was
a place people wanted to work.I remember graduating high school and friends applying
there and getting turned down because theyhad so many applicants who wanted to directional
officers. And so then morale startedto go down a little bit. Then
the Act ten came along, andthe pension and the healthcare benefit got sweet
and people were very cranky about that, and then so that got more people
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to retire and they don't come workhere. And then over time it's just
it got worse and worse, andthe pay wasn't keeping up with the private
sector. So what had happened isit was starting, like I said earlier,
was starting to come back. Whenthey did these you don't need to
act, you don't need to go, you don't need to get rid of
it. You just needed to paythese people more money for a tough job.
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So now if you get out throughthe academy and you started upon correctionally
you're starting at like forty one tofifty an hour, you still get state
benefits, the health insurance, it'sthe pension Wisconsin retirement system. You don't
get that in all jobs. Right, So it's finally it's finally. It
finally became a place people want towork and the corrections vacancies are happening statewide.
At maximum security prisons, it wasit's getting better. It was improving
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in a wupon. One of theproblems we have as a community is we
need more housing in a wapon sopeople can live here while working there.
That's we're working on that as acity. That's just something we have to
get better at. And I knowthat, but it was it was coming
back, okay, okay, yes, as far as my knowledge of correctional
work and what have you, andI've had some friends in it. Boy,
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you get good pay and good benefits. So yeah, I was just
kind of surprised about just the number, but the state as a hole in
a lot of places also dealing withthis, which actually it's been building for
a long time. We've just seenit get bigger and bigger in the aftermath
of the pandemic. The workforce shortagein Wisconsin. Well, yeah, and
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that's in every field. Everyone inwhat's got to help on it's fine,
And now like the state gives thisbig pay raise, so people are leaving
other agencies to come to the state. It's just I mean, I don't
know, maybe it's just inflationary,but I do know that the big pay
boosts for corrections was working. Morepeople were going to get jobs there,
and I was very thankful. Likemy state repped from this area was Michael
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Shaw. He and Dan Finn asa senator, I know they were two
that really pushed for the pay increasesand all. A lot of people here
were very thankful and appreciative of itwhen it got done. Because at the
end of the day too, wherepeople are like, oh, you know,
why should you have to invest thatmuch in you know, policing this
facility. Well, obviously we cansee and have seen what can go wrong.
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But at the end of the daytoo, it's a liability for the
government, as we're finding out withthese lawsuits. I mean, somebody's on
in the hook. These lawsuits aresuccessful, yeah, they are, and
the lasses hopefully bring the light placeswhere policy changes do need to be made.
You know. One example I likedusing is in that criminal complaint in
some of the lawsuits you've read abouthow bad the drinking water was. Yeah,
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well one of the issues there.You know, Upon has the best
drinking water in the state of Wisconsinbecause we have a reverse osmos's water treatment
plant. And the reason we havethat plant is our iron and rock content
here is so high that if wedidn't have it, the water would be
terrible, undrinkable and you couldn't useit to do your laundry. So if
you're a Upon resident, for example, your applying to this last longer,
and you don't even need to owna water software because we treat the water
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before we send it through the system. The state prisons have never hooked up
to the city water because they justnever wanted to pay for it. So
they have their own water tower.They're pumping that crummy water out of the
ground and serving it to the prisoners. The people who work at the prisons
bring their own water from home.The people who live there are stuck drinking
it. And it's not like Ican gouge them on the price of the
water. The state runs the PSCs. They're going to tell me what you're
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going to right, this is whatwe're paying for your water. Fine,
just buy their dang water. Andthey refuse to do it, and so
I think it's stupid, and Ithink they should just be buying city water.
Yes, we make some money onit, there's a there's a reason
I want to sell them the water, But I just think why not might
just have the better water to bedone with it. I thought that was
a simple solution, and the Statesno. Well, and as you point
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out, a lawsuit now and perhapsthis will be one of the changes for
the better. As I'm talking withMayor Ron Bishop, the mayor of Wa
pon here, and we're coming upon our last few minutes, Mayor,
and I wanted to do a littlebackstory about what pon. First of all,
what's the population now about just shiatwelve thousand, yeah, and thirty
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five all right? And I wasalso looking at just some economic data as
far as the median salary a yearwas something like boy, was it around
in the upper sixties or something likethat. It could have been. Our
stats get thrown off, by theway, when you look at the makeup
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of the city, the racial breakupof the city, the population of men
versus women, high school diplomas,and the medium family income, the numbers
are skewed because the people who livein the prison are counted in their population.
Yeah, that throws things off.So I have an alder person.
I brought her with to a correctionsmeeting, and seventy of per constituents are
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incarcerated and can't even vote. Theyare counted in the populations they do live
here. I don't know how so, and the number changes all the time.
Interesting story. So they did thecensus in twenty twenty and Tony Eavers
closed the spell Hall at will Pond. Had that spell Hall remained to open,
our population actually would have been alittle over twelve thousand. Well,
you know, all these things havebeen flow. Every Tuesday we get an
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email on what the population of theprisons are. And no one permanently lives
a like I said, this isthe short term housing for about six months.
But the residents of upon Pressional suredo count in the in the in
the stat Yeah, they sure do. Actually in that I was lower on
what I was. I just foundthe information I had looked at. It
was they say the median income isseventy two grand. Like, wow,
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you know for median income for asmall you know, just under twelve thousand
city. That's damn good. Butit makes total sense now when you explain
to me how they factor Yeah,factor in those employees. No, Well,
got a pretty good industrial park withgood paying jobs. But there's a
lot of industry out there, andthen it's got a lot of it's a
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nice clean stage city was the seventhstate of city in the state of Wisconsin.
I told you always got the greatwater. And then like our branding
for like tourism and visitors as wecall ourselves Wisconsin's City of Sculpture. We
have seven outdoor bronze sculptures that weremade or given to the city of wupond
by an industrialist named Clarence Shaler.And when mister Shaler was alive in wapan
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he was the second richest man inthe state of Wisconsin. Oh, we
had a lot of money, andhe got into art late in life.
He waned a thing called the ShalerCompany, and he made umbrellas and golf
clubs and stuff. And then whenthey came out with the car, the
tube tires would go flat. Andso he invented the Shaler vulcanizer, and
within about six months every corner gasstation in America had a Shaler vulcanizer and
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you put it on the tire andyou let a match and it would get
the rubber nice and hot, andyou could patch the tire put air and
then keep driving. And that thingjust made the Shaler Company huge. And
like I said, at one pointhe was the second richest man in the
state of Wisconsin. The first personin will Pond own a car. Wow.
Yeah, And so I have seensome of the pictures. I guess
next time I'm in Wipon I haveto really go and look at him up
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close. But yeah, of allthe sculptures in the city. And so
the city started back in eighteen thirtynine, and it was originally supposed to
be called something else. Yeah,we're supposed to be a woolf fun with
a be kind of like Willbun Minnesota, and we'll bun comes from the gibiliative
American Indians that lived here at thattime, and it's it's it's a gibbla
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for dawn of a new day ordawn of day. And so we were
supposed to be to waban and thenit got sent off in eighteen thirty nine,
like you said, back in thedays when everything was in cursive handwriting
and someone wrote it down wrong andthe bee became a p We just never
bothered to change it. So we'rethe only Wapan in the world because it's
not a real word. Well youcan do it. You can make your
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own word now with it. Wellyou can't. And so one guy's to
beat. She goes, so wapondoesn't mean anything. I'm like, well,
it means the world to me,but the word itself doesn't mean anything.
That's correct. Yeah, and soand I like that said, Okay,
we'll just stick with it. Soand I had never known that before,
just recently reading up on that,and that's that's a fun fact.
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That's a very interesting backstory here,a tale from Wapan And now, so
you're going to be spending here,I'm guessing the weeks months ahead a lobbying
on behalf of keeping this prison openand perhaps maybe some remodeling. Well,
it's on the National Historic Places,I mean, and I'd imagine it's kind
(26:12):
of a process to even get it, to get it torn down right,
And that's that's one of the reasonswhy Governor Thompson has his time to do
the schooling thing with it, because, like he said to the state legislature,
you just can't close it because you'restuck with the building. You've got
to continue to own it, You'vegot to maintain it. You can't just
give it to the city of Wuponand leave them this big empty space in
(26:33):
the middle of the city. SoI do think, and having been in
the news as much as I've beenthis week, and I've been hearing from
legislatures, legislators and even someone fromthe Governor's office reached out to me if
nothing else that's speeded it one thingthis week, and if they understand how
important the prison is to Wupon andwhat it means to our community. So
I do think if they're going todo something different, they are going to
work with this city to make thatstill something with Corrections that our city can
(26:57):
be proud of and that employees peopleand it's part of our heritage and who
we are. It's the oldest prisonin the state. Prisoners from Upon helped
to build a Green Bay prison.The reason the prisons here is the city
donated the land. So we justgot this long history with the state of
Wisconsin and Corrections and we would liketo keep that going. Well. And
I can tell you you're you're avery good uh spokesman for your city,
(27:22):
mayor, And I can tell youthank you, Yeah you are. You
have a year down to earth anduh you tell it how you see it,
and I can tell you have wellyou've grown up there that has a
special place for you. But youreally have a sense of pride for not
just the city, but the prisonand what it what it means, and
how important it is to that area. I do well, Fin's my favorite
(27:42):
place in the world, really haveyou ever been like Bahamas or anything.
No. I mean I've been toMarco Islands, Florida. I mean the
weather was great, But I dolevel pan. It is quaint, that's
for sure. And so let meask you this. What if they said,
well, well, again, aswe talked about, it's hard to
(28:04):
close it down because it's on anational registry. But what if they said,
well, we'll build another super prisonright by wapan Is that the same
or no, it could be ifthey do something like that. And like
I say, Wupon has repurposed islike the vocational school for inmates. I
think we would be open and listeningto it. I think Wapani is going
(28:26):
to be a little bit skeptical because, like I said, the prison is
just a big part of our heritageand who we are. You know.
One thing I put it out toofor the state, and I got one
supporter in the legislator on the legislatureon it. But I think they should
close the Department of Corrections headquarters inMadison and build that building up here in
the wapon area. The state ownsland all over all around our city,
and then the corrections headquarters, thebureaucrats who run the department could actually see
(28:49):
actual prisoners and actual correctional officers inperson and kind of see this this is
real life for Wapon. And thenlike every church in the Wapon has an
out reach it that the churches,our pastors go in there for Bible study,
and like when we're at church,we pray for the prisoners. We
pray for the people who work thereand the people who live there because we
understand a lot of them are goodpeople who did something really bad. A
(29:12):
lot of them are really bad peoplethat can never get out, but not
all of them, and they meansomething to Wapon. They're part of our
community. When when inmates are outmowing the lawn and my kids are riding
their bikes, they don't cross thestreet out of fair that. They just
ride right by the guys. It'sjust we're used to it. Yeah,
boy, you started something there withthat doc relocation. Good luck with that.
(29:33):
Oh I know. I mean,I'm not going to win that one,
but hey, you asked how Ithought there. You get it?
Yeah, I did, Mayor,Bishop Ron, Bishop Mayor of Wapon.
It's been a pleasure. Thanks somuch for your time this morning. You've
been listening to Madison Forum,
Good morning. I'm Robin Culbert andthis is Madison Forum. I guess this
morning is Wapon Mayor Ron Bishop.Of course, Wapon prison in the national
spotlight following the arrests of the formerwarden and eight other employees on charges of
misconduct and office and abuse of inmates. First of all, Mayor Bishop,
thank you so much for taking sometime for me this morning, and glad
(00:22):
to be here. Yes, andI understand, Yeah, you can't delve
too much into the aspects. Idon't know if you even know, but
well, you were aware of federalinvestigations. I believe it broke. It
was last spring, in March oftwenty twenty three that there was a lockdown,
and of course the federal investigations thatfollowed. Have you been concerned about
(00:44):
activity at WAPON for some time here, Mayor Yeah, I have been since
even before taking office. Man.A lot of it had to do with
I knew years ago already that staffingwas an issue and becoming a bigger issue.
And I'm known for my entire tenurein office, and I'm in my
third year now, always knew thatthe prison was running at like fifty one
percent. They can see fifty twopercent sometimes and that people were working mandatory
(01:07):
double ships and that's not the bestsituation. And when that lockdown modified movement
went to effect, two springs agoal. It was basically the inmates.
You know that that phrase the inmatesor any meaning asylum. That's not exactly
what was happening here, but theykind of were getting hockey and we're pushing
the literally pushing some of the coreshofficers around because they knew they were understaffed
(01:27):
and they felt a little emboldened.So the modified movements were put into place
to help get people to behave andto treat the staff better. It looked
like it was helping to and thensome of the tragedy. And this is
last state budget, you know,when those pain pieces went through, you
can see that that's helping morale.The prisons went way up, and the
graduating classes from the academy have beenreally good. So like the help is
(01:49):
on the way has been the feelthere, and I think morale was up
and things were really improving until thisthing all hit the news and people got
charged, and I think I thinka lot of people who work at the
Persons feel like they're under attack andthey're under a spotlight, and I think
a lot of them feel like theyjust go to work every day, do
a really a tough and thankless joband aren't being appreciated for it. And
(02:10):
so it's rocks the city of wuponbecause everyone who lives in a wapon knows
someone or is related to someone who'sworked in the corrections. Sure Wellpon.
One of our nicknames for a longtime was prison City and Upon prisons here.
But there's three prisons in the wuponUpon Correctional, the Dodge Correctional and
the John Birk Center, which isa minimum security prison, plus the prison
(02:32):
Pharmacy and the prison farm just outsideof our city. So corrections is just
a huge part of our community andwho we are. Now. Are you
a native of wapon I? Am? Okay? So in growing up as
a young boy, did it kindof spooky? You know, ooh,
I'm living in prison city? Oris it something that you just have to
(02:53):
be born and raised there? Itis just completely your way of life.
It is, It's totally we don'tthink they have it. I don't know
if they still do it. Butwhen I was in grade school, we
took a field ship to the prisonand It wasn't the sea. It wasn't
like going to the zoo. Don'tlook at it the wrong way. We
went there to learn what the jobswere that so many of the people would
end up working there. So thecorrectional officers would show you around, you
(03:15):
learn the way they did things.And then we oftentimes even prisoners would come
to school and they do the questionand answer with the kids, and it
was a way of trying to teachkids they don't don't deal drugs, that
what happens to you and stuff likethat. So no, you know,
it's funny that I travel the state, that question comes up a lot.
What's it like to have a prisonin your city? And then when I
tell them there's three of them there, jaws drop, right. But the
(03:37):
public library is across the streets fromupon correctional and the daycare my kids went
to is in the backyard of theprison, and the prison is surrounded by
homes. It's right in the centerof our city. You know, most
prisons are out in the country,but now we'll paint it. It's really
the central part of our city.It sure is. I've gone through many
a times, and it is avery dare I say, quaint city.
(03:57):
But then all of a sudden's like, whoa, what's that? It's just
kind of you're mesmerized and a littlefrightened all at once if you're new coming
into the city. On what that? Because it's our you know, obviously
it's our Shawshank, our Alcatraz kindof. Yeah, it's old. It's
an old building. It's one hundredand seventy five years old. It's the
oldest person in the state of Wisconsin. But there's but the building itself is
(04:19):
in pretty good shape. And likeyou said, it's got that neat castle
look to it. That's why it'son the National Register of Historic Places.
And you know it's it's I don'tI wouldn't call it a tourist attraction,
but it is kind of a neatthing. It's right here in the middle
of our city. Yeah, andis it still the case? I mean,
back in the day, no questionabout it. The worst of the
(04:40):
worst went to wapon I'm guessing there'sstill unsavory characters, a lot of horrific
crimes inmates doing time for. Buthaven't the worst of the worst gone to
Boscobell now or even Portage? Yeah? Portage Basketball, and Walpon are the
three prisons that give the quote unquotethe worst of the worst. Okay,
So one of the things that Ido think one of the things the news
(05:00):
media kind of misses in the coverage, Like nobody in Wupon wants any inhumane
treatment or anything bad to happen inthe inmate but we sometimes forget there's murderers
and rapists in there too, Likethere's a there's a population and I don't
know the percentage of it, butthere's a percent of the population, and
there are people who are never goingto get out so they have nothing to
lose, and sometimes that's where theymisbehaved. And also the mental health aspect
(05:24):
of corrections is way I guess underfundedand not paying attention to. When I
toured the stake hall at the prison, like some of those people, I'm
like, why are they in aprison? They should probably be somewhere else,
And that's a very stressful job forcorrection officers. There was one prisoner
there and I found out his backstory. He's such a headache and a hassle
and so much work. They'll dotwo three weeks in Wupon, then he
(05:45):
doesn't do twos and three weeks inbasketball, and I'll do two or three
weeks in portage because he wears thestaff outen geez. Yeah, Well,
it's just it's exacerbated on a statelevel here what you're dealing with with Pond,
But it sounds very much like whatsheriff's department and start dealing with on
the on the county level, andeven police departments. The mental health issue.
A lot of these people that areacting up and doing illegal things,
(06:10):
many of times they should be ina mental health facility. Yeah. And
I you know, one of thethings I've learned in public services, I've
never laughed at or looked down mentalhealth issues. But I have a couple
of really close friends who've gone throughit and some who are just not the
same person. And I sometimes wonderif we all have a little bit of
it, and it just affects somepeople more than others. And I do
think it's something as a society.We're getting better at appreciating it and understanding
(06:34):
it. But I think it's realand I do, and like you're right,
it's everywhere we deal with it.It's a hospital here and upon I
just mental health. It's probably abovemy pay grade. But it's a real
it's a real issue that we needto do more for. So maybe instead
of building new prisons, maybe lookingmore into developing better mental health facilities.
(06:56):
Perhaps, I don't know. Butalso when these mental illnesses go on shit,
I think you would agree, theautomatic turn is to drugs or alcohol
and that's just going to make aproblem worse. Well, yeah, because
you're struggling with depression or something,so you drink beer and then you feel
better for a little while and thenit comes back. So it's not a
healthy if the loop, people getstuck in and then they make four decisions
and four choices in life and beforeyou know it, it only takes a
(07:19):
few months and you have strewed thingsup and you've got a lot of work
to do. And it just ithappens to people. And some people stop
before they do something really bad,and some don't. So that's the serious
part of it. But like someof the people are just bad people.
I don't know why bad people exist, they do and they do bad things
(07:40):
and they end up in a wpon Yep, yep, agreed. So
now, and this is of course, with this round of calls for closure,
they have the backdrop of this,the shocking arrest of the former warden
and eight employees at WAPON being arrestedwith following the deaths for two of the
two of the four deaths over thepast year is what they're charged with.
(08:03):
But there has been calls in thepast shut it down. Are you worried
this time it's carrying more weight,because you say that's not the answer.
I am worried it's carrying more weight. And I'm not a conspiratorialist, but
part of me wonders if Madison's beensitting on their hands waiting for it to
blow so they can just build anew prison. I don't know all of
the reasons why people want a newone. I think some are conservative Republicans
(08:26):
who honestly believe close people pon inGreen Bay and building one super cool maximum
security prison is the way to go. I'm going to assume their intentions good
and they may be right, AndI know Governor Tommy Thompson behind the scenes
has talked with some of those legislatorsand each proposed idea of doing something like
that and then having the WAPAN prisonremain open, but take it into a
(08:46):
school, like a vocational school.For inmates, and then inmates can getting
education and they can go to wapanif they're on good behavior, and then
maybe get out of prison early togo get a job, as long as
they behave themselves. It's not aI think it's a fascinating idea that could
be looked into. But the otherside is that there's representatives from the northeast
corner of Wisconsin. They want toclose to the green Bay Prison. And
I don't think they're being totally honestas to why. They always say the
(09:09):
prison's all that's out of dat andit's not doing what it's opposed to.
And I don't know if that's thecase or not. What I do know
is the green Bay Prison is locatedon the Fox River near an interstate and
it's prime development property for economic development. You could have like a canadraal Pascal
and condos or something, right.I think that's what they want. So
well, Pon's person keeps getting rankedinto the argument that green Bay and I
(09:31):
just want people to work two differentcities, green Bay and the town of
Alloways. They want the prison closed, they want that land. Wellpon is
completely different. We want our prison. It's a huge employer. It's a
big part of our history, it'sa big part of who we are,
and it's in the middle of ourcity. We don't want to just obviously
they can't just turn the key andthrow it at me to here you go.
That's what we have to work through. But the people who live here
(09:52):
want it to stay open, andthe people who work here, who live
here, wanted to stay open.Like the license plates in your car are
made here, and you might thinkthat weird, but it's something worth put.
No, yeah, sure, Imean, it's it's something that we
everybody you see on the roads,there's a little piece of pond driving by
you, I guess. I mean, as long as you got as long
(10:13):
as you are housing. As youknow, we can recognize some of the
worst human behavior has to offer,you might as well try to find a
positive spin. Well, yeah,I mean it's just well, ponds are
very safety, which some people thinkis odd because the Christmas are here,
but the bad people are literally lockedup, so you know. Yeah,
(10:35):
yeah, I was looking over someof the history, just fascinating stuff.
Boy, it has been forever ina day, I believe. I think
it's been twenty two years at leastfrom what I could find that there was
an escape. There was one intwo thousand and two, and that was
an inmate to snuck into a deliverytruck. You know, I gotta be
honest with you. I think thegovernor at the time it was Jim Doyle.
(10:58):
I think they made a miss becausethey should have probably hired that guy
in security. That guy was fuck. He took so Coca Cola would come
in and out with a semi truckwith beverages, and he worked in the
kitchen and he cut out the bottomof the crates that the soda bottles would
be on. Then he climbed inand then he slid one over top of
him. The forklift picked him up, put him in the semi truck.
No one had an idea he wasin the thing. Oh my god,
(11:18):
I didn't realize that. Yeah,yeah, And then the truck left and
he got himself out of the backof the semi rolled down the road,
had a buddy picked him up orsomething, and was gone. They arrested
him like a year or two laterin California. He came back to Wisconsin
there or something, and he escapedfrom that prison too. So I mean
maybe this guy should be working withus, no kidding. Yeah, So
(11:39):
that Wow, that's quite a story. But since then, I haven't really
seen anything as far as I'm surethere's always you know, maybe some half
hearted attempt or something. But youhaven't had an inmate on the loose for
a couple decades now, right,No, we've had no issues. The
closest thing to an issue we hadus two summers ago. Dodge Correctional is
(12:03):
the intake prison. Forever you teltmail in the system, and the squad
cars from all over the state willline up and prisoners incoming prisoners had to
use the bathroom, and they weredriving over to a city park and using
the city park bathroom while we havea parks program going on. So there's
all these great school kids running aroundand one terrified park leader as these big
inmates are handcuffed and shackled and brightorange using the bathroom. So I contacted
(12:26):
the warden his dodge. He didn'tbelieve me at first, and I showed
him pictures. He's like, holycow, we don't want that. Yeah,
And so it went straight to KevinCarr Corrections, and he sent an
email to every sheriff in the stateto use the Wapon Police department bathroom or
the Wupon Prison power plant bathroom,to not use the city park when the
kids are there. And so Iwas heartbroken when I saw Warden hep get
(12:50):
swept up in all of this becausein my time as mayor, of the
two gentlemen that have been the wardens, plus Nick, who's the supervisor at
Burke, we've had great lives ofcommunication. Every time there's been something between
the city and Corrections that may canof an issue, I would email ward
and AF he was always right onit. He'd get back to me that
day. He gets stuff up thechain of command, and I hope that
(13:11):
the new people who come in havethat same working relationship with me in the
city. It was good and Igot to become friends with them over the
years. And that's why, juston a personal note, I was sorry
to see him get wrapped up inthis. He could have retired several years
ago, and I think he stuckaround because the prison needed someone and he
was trying to help. And it'skind of crappy that the thing and he
gets is this, Yeah, itcould be a case of well it was
(13:33):
under your watch, therefore, youknow, I mean, I don't know
what I think. That's exactly whatit is. I and I get it.
Like a different radio station asked me, should all of those people have
been charged? And I froze fora second on air and I said,
I'm not can I answer that becauseI'm staying out of that. Like the
sheriff and his people have their jobto do, and corrections have their job
(13:58):
to do, But as the mayor, I'm just to give the perspective of
our community and where we're coming from. Yeah, that's probably a good idea,
a sheriff, I wass can callyour sheriff. That's a good idea,
mayor. Just back to just atouch on the very infrequent escapes.
What was it back in? Itwas kind of it was very Alcatraz Shawshank
Like in eighteen ninety two, threeconvicts serving life sentences tunneled from the laundry
(14:24):
and they got out under the walland escape but captured the next morning.
And that's when a big old whatwas it a few years later, man,
about fifteen years later they put thatbig wall up then around, which
is a good idea. Now,there was another escape attempt in nineteen thirty
six and two inmates were shot.So that'll stop you. Well, that'll
stop you too. And back intwo thousand and one, there wasn't it
(14:48):
wasn't it wasn't a Wapon escape,but it happened in the Wapon And what
I mean by then, they've madesome changes since then. But a Milwaukee
County van with two prisoners pulled upto drop them off at the Wapon prison
and some of they'd gotten their handcutson and got out of the truck and
then took out the cop and thenwent running through the streets of Wapan.
And we call one individual right away, but the other guy made it out
(15:09):
to the horror con marsh but hesurrendered the next day because the mosquitos were
too much. So, yeah,Christmas maybe better than all those mosquitos.
You know, people think, God, you break out of prison, but
then you spend the rest of yourlife. You got to hide. They're
always looking for you. You can'tget an ID, you can't do much
of anything. So unless you cansomehow, I guess, make it to
(15:30):
Central America, they're going to eventuallyfind you. But yeah, we haven't
had anything majored in wipon nineteen eightytwo or nineteen eighty three at the prison
riot where the prisoners took over theprison for a few hours. But every
time something happens, they always changedpolicy. And I'm not saying it can't
happen again, but one of thereasons it doesn't is the professionalism of the
(15:54):
people who work there. They allgo to an academy, they're well trained,
they have better policy, they havebetter funding. I'm a little concerned
right now because the staffing level islow, and then there's a whole bunch
of people on administrative lead. There'sthe term they're using, is there.
Every day they're walking more people out, so I don't even know who's left
to run the place. I knowthey've been bringing in some officers from different
(16:15):
institutions to help cover it, andso I'm concerned that in the next month
or two something could happen because ofthe overworkedness and the understaffed of it.
And I'm just hoping the States takesit seriously, because, like I said
earlier, there's a part of methat Wonders of Madison just wouldn't wanted to
blow up so they can just seewe need a new one. Yeah,
boy, that's a dangerous game.To play for obvious reasons. What the
(16:36):
outcomes can be. You can haveinnocence correctional workers. Yeah, they could
take over and they could be killed. No, you're going to have,
from the back of a better term, innocent prisoners who aren't doing anything wrong.
I mean as to absolutely. Now, Mayor when you talked to you
thrown out a figure earlier on aboutfifty two percent vacancies at the prison.
(16:56):
Is that just nobody's interested or hasthere been a hiring freeze? No,
what happened was well a couple ofthings, and again it does go back
to about Acts ten. Well alittle bit before that, morale has been
getting lower and lower in the prisons, I would say in the two thousands
decades, so like when the TommyThompson Scott the Calamarra was going on.
(17:19):
They really modernized and put a lotof money into corrections, and there was
a place people wanted to work.I remember graduating high school and friends applying
there and getting turned down because theyhad so many applicants who wanted to directional
officers. And so then morale startedto go down a little bit. Then
the Act ten came along, andthe pension and the healthcare benefit got sweet
and people were very cranky about that, and then so that got more people
(17:44):
to retire and they don't come workhere. And then over time it's just
it got worse and worse, andthe pay wasn't keeping up with the private
sector. So what had happened isit was starting, like I said earlier,
was starting to come back. Whenthey did these you don't need to
act, you don't need to go, you don't need to get rid of
it. You just needed to paythese people more money for a tough job.
(18:04):
So now if you get out throughthe academy and you started upon correctionally
you're starting at like forty one tofifty an hour, you still get state
benefits, the health insurance, it'sthe pension Wisconsin retirement system. You don't
get that in all jobs. Right, So it's finally it's finally. It
finally became a place people want towork and the corrections vacancies are happening statewide.
At maximum security prisons, it wasit's getting better. It was improving
(18:27):
in a wupon. One of theproblems we have as a community is we
need more housing in a wapon sopeople can live here while working there.
That's we're working on that as acity. That's just something we have to
get better at. And I knowthat, but it was it was coming
back, okay, okay, yes, as far as my knowledge of correctional
work and what have you, andI've had some friends in it. Boy,
(18:49):
you get good pay and good benefits. So yeah, I was just
kind of surprised about just the number, but the state as a hole in
a lot of places also dealing withthis, which actually it's been building for
a long time. We've just seenit get bigger and bigger in the aftermath
of the pandemic. The workforce shortagein Wisconsin. Well, yeah, and
(19:11):
that's in every field. Everyone inwhat's got to help on it's fine,
And now like the state gives thisbig pay raise, so people are leaving
other agencies to come to the state. It's just I mean, I don't
know, maybe it's just inflationary,but I do know that the big pay
boosts for corrections was working. Morepeople were going to get jobs there,
and I was very thankful. Likemy state repped from this area was Michael
(19:32):
Shaw. He and Dan Finn asa senator, I know they were two
that really pushed for the pay increasesand all. A lot of people here
were very thankful and appreciative of itwhen it got done. Because at the
end of the day too, wherepeople are like, oh, you know,
why should you have to invest thatmuch in you know, policing this
facility. Well, obviously we cansee and have seen what can go wrong.
(19:52):
But at the end of the daytoo, it's a liability for the
government, as we're finding out withthese lawsuits. I mean, somebody's on
in the hook. These lawsuits aresuccessful, yeah, they are, and
the lasses hopefully bring the light placeswhere policy changes do need to be made.
You know. One example I likedusing is in that criminal complaint in
some of the lawsuits you've read abouthow bad the drinking water was. Yeah,
(20:15):
well one of the issues there.You know, Upon has the best
drinking water in the state of Wisconsinbecause we have a reverse osmos's water treatment
plant. And the reason we havethat plant is our iron and rock content
here is so high that if wedidn't have it, the water would be
terrible, undrinkable and you couldn't useit to do your laundry. So if
you're a Upon resident, for example, your applying to this last longer,
and you don't even need to owna water software because we treat the water
(20:37):
before we send it through the system. The state prisons have never hooked up
to the city water because they justnever wanted to pay for it. So
they have their own water tower.They're pumping that crummy water out of the
ground and serving it to the prisoners. The people who work at the prisons
bring their own water from home.The people who live there are stuck drinking
it. And it's not like Ican gouge them on the price of the
water. The state runs the PSCs. They're going to tell me what you're
(21:00):
going to right, this is whatwe're paying for your water. Fine,
just buy their dang water. Andthey refuse to do it, and so
I think it's stupid, and Ithink they should just be buying city water.
Yes, we make some money onit, there's a there's a reason
I want to sell them the water, But I just think why not might
just have the better water to bedone with it. I thought that was
a simple solution, and the Statesno. Well, and as you point
(21:22):
out, a lawsuit now and perhapsthis will be one of the changes for
the better. As I'm talking withMayor Ron Bishop, the mayor of Wa
pon here, and we're coming upon our last few minutes, Mayor,
and I wanted to do a littlebackstory about what pon. First of all,
what's the population now about just shiatwelve thousand, yeah, and thirty
(21:48):
five all right? And I wasalso looking at just some economic data as
far as the median salary a yearwas something like boy, was it around
in the upper sixties or something likethat. It could have been. Our
stats get thrown off, by theway, when you look at the makeup
(22:10):
of the city, the racial breakupof the city, the population of men
versus women, high school diplomas,and the medium family income, the numbers
are skewed because the people who livein the prison are counted in their population.
Yeah, that throws things off.So I have an alder person.
I brought her with to a correctionsmeeting, and seventy of per constituents are
(22:32):
incarcerated and can't even vote. Theyare counted in the populations they do live
here. I don't know how so, and the number changes all the time.
Interesting story. So they did thecensus in twenty twenty and Tony Eavers
closed the spell Hall at will Pond. Had that spell Hall remained to open,
our population actually would have been alittle over twelve thousand. Well,
you know, all these things havebeen flow. Every Tuesday we get an
(22:55):
email on what the population of theprisons are. And no one permanently lives
a like I said, this isthe short term housing for about six months.
But the residents of upon Pressional suredo count in the in the in
the stat Yeah, they sure do. Actually in that I was lower on
what I was. I just foundthe information I had looked at. It
was they say the median income isseventy two grand. Like, wow,
(23:17):
you know for median income for asmall you know, just under twelve thousand
city. That's damn good. Butit makes total sense now when you explain
to me how they factor Yeah,factor in those employees. No, Well,
got a pretty good industrial park withgood paying jobs. But there's a
lot of industry out there, andthen it's got a lot of it's a
(23:38):
nice clean stage city was the seventhstate of city in the state of Wisconsin.
I told you always got the greatwater. And then like our branding
for like tourism and visitors as wecall ourselves Wisconsin's City of Sculpture. We
have seven outdoor bronze sculptures that weremade or given to the city of wupond
by an industrialist named Clarence Shaler.And when mister Shaler was alive in wapan
(24:00):
he was the second richest man inthe state of Wisconsin. Oh, we
had a lot of money, andhe got into art late in life.
He waned a thing called the ShalerCompany, and he made umbrellas and golf
clubs and stuff. And then whenthey came out with the car, the
tube tires would go flat. Andso he invented the Shaler vulcanizer, and
within about six months every corner gasstation in America had a Shaler vulcanizer and
(24:22):
you put it on the tire andyou let a match and it would get
the rubber nice and hot, andyou could patch the tire put air and
then keep driving. And that thingjust made the Shaler Company huge. And
like I said, at one pointhe was the second richest man in the
state of Wisconsin. The first personin will Pond own a car. Wow.
Yeah, And so I have seensome of the pictures. I guess
next time I'm in Wipon I haveto really go and look at him up
(24:45):
close. But yeah, of allthe sculptures in the city. And so
the city started back in eighteen thirtynine, and it was originally supposed to
be called something else. Yeah,we're supposed to be a woolf fun with
a be kind of like Willbun Minnesota, and we'll bun comes from the gibiliative
American Indians that lived here at thattime, and it's it's it's a gibbla
(25:07):
for dawn of a new day ordawn of day. And so we were
supposed to be to waban and thenit got sent off in eighteen thirty nine,
like you said, back in thedays when everything was in cursive handwriting
and someone wrote it down wrong andthe bee became a p We just never
bothered to change it. So we'rethe only Wapan in the world because it's
not a real word. Well youcan do it. You can make your
(25:30):
own word now with it. Wellyou can't. And so one guy's to
beat. She goes, so wapondoesn't mean anything. I'm like, well,
it means the world to me,but the word itself doesn't mean anything.
That's correct. Yeah, and soand I like that said, Okay,
we'll just stick with it. Soand I had never known that before,
just recently reading up on that,and that's that's a fun fact.
(25:51):
That's a very interesting backstory here,a tale from Wapan And now, so
you're going to be spending here,I'm guessing the weeks months ahead a lobbying
on behalf of keeping this prison openand perhaps maybe some remodeling. Well,
it's on the National Historic Places,I mean, and I'd imagine it's kind
(26:12):
of a process to even get it, to get it torn down right,
And that's that's one of the reasonswhy Governor Thompson has his time to do
the schooling thing with it, because, like he said to the state legislature,
you just can't close it because you'restuck with the building. You've got
to continue to own it, You'vegot to maintain it. You can't just
give it to the city of Wuponand leave them this big empty space in
(26:33):
the middle of the city. SoI do think, and having been in
the news as much as I've beenthis week, and I've been hearing from
legislatures, legislators and even someone fromthe Governor's office reached out to me if
nothing else that's speeded it one thingthis week, and if they understand how
important the prison is to Wupon andwhat it means to our community. So
I do think if they're going todo something different, they are going to
work with this city to make thatstill something with Corrections that our city can
(26:57):
be proud of and that employees peopleand it's part of our heritage and who
we are. It's the oldest prisonin the state. Prisoners from Upon helped
to build a Green Bay prison.The reason the prisons here is the city
donated the land. So we justgot this long history with the state of
Wisconsin and Corrections and we would liketo keep that going. Well. And
I can tell you you're you're avery good uh spokesman for your city,
(27:22):
mayor, And I can tell youthank you, Yeah you are. You
have a year down to earth anduh you tell it how you see it,
and I can tell you have wellyou've grown up there that has a
special place for you. But youreally have a sense of pride for not
just the city, but the prisonand what it what it means, and
how important it is to that area. I do well, Fin's my favorite
(27:42):
place in the world, really haveyou ever been like Bahamas or anything.
No. I mean I've been toMarco Islands, Florida. I mean the
weather was great, But I dolevel pan. It is quaint, that's
for sure. And so let meask you this. What if they said,
well, well, again, aswe talked about, it's hard to
(28:04):
close it down because it's on anational registry. But what if they said,
well, we'll build another super prisonright by wapan Is that the same
or no, it could be ifthey do something like that. And like
I say, Wupon has repurposed islike the vocational school for inmates. I
think we would be open and listeningto it. I think Wapani is going
(28:26):
to be a little bit skeptical because, like I said, the prison is
just a big part of our heritageand who we are. You know.
One thing I put it out toofor the state, and I got one
supporter in the legislator on the legislatureon it. But I think they should
close the Department of Corrections headquarters inMadison and build that building up here in
the wapon area. The state ownsland all over all around our city,
and then the corrections headquarters, thebureaucrats who run the department could actually see
(28:49):
actual prisoners and actual correctional officers inperson and kind of see this this is
real life for Wapon. And thenlike every church in the Wapon has an
out reach it that the churches,our pastors go in there for Bible study,
and like when we're at church,we pray for the prisoners. We
pray for the people who work thereand the people who live there because we
understand a lot of them are goodpeople who did something really bad. A
(29:12):
lot of them are really bad peoplethat can never get out, but not
all of them, and they meansomething to Wapon. They're part of our
community. When when inmates are outmowing the lawn and my kids are riding
their bikes, they don't cross thestreet out of fair that. They just
ride right by the guys. It'sjust we're used to it. Yeah,
boy, you started something there withthat doc relocation. Good luck with that.
(29:33):
Oh I know. I mean,I'm not going to win that one,
but hey, you asked how Ithought there. You get it?
Yeah, I did, Mayor,Bishop Ron, Bishop Mayor of Wapon.
It's been a pleasure. Thanks somuch for your time this morning. You've
been listening to Madison Forum,
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