April 15, 2025 • 52 mins
The episode features a compelling conversation with Victoria Christopher Murray, an accomplished author, who discusses her latest work, 'Harlem Rhapsody'. The narrative centers around the life of Jessie Redmond Fawcett, a pivotal figure of the Harlem Renaissance whose contributions have been largely overshadowed. Victoria reveals the profound importance of Fawcett's legacy and how her mentorship influenced renowned writers such as Langston Hughes and Countee Cullen. Through an exploration of Fawcett's life, Victoria illuminates the complexities of race, gender, and literary identity during a transformative period in American history. The discussion delves into the challenges faced by black writers in a racially stratified society, as well as the enduring relevance of their struggles today. As Victoria reflects on her writing process and the historical research behind her novel, she underscores the necessity of reclaiming untold stories to ensure that the contributions of black women are recognized and celebrated in literature.
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(00:45):
Welcome to the Mahogany BooksPodcast Network, your gateway to
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Immerse yourself in podcastslike Black Books Matter, the podcast
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(01:05):
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Or tune in to real ballersRead, where brothers Jan and Miles
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(01:27):
literature ignite your passion.
How y'all feeling?
Let me tell you about y'all.
Y'all done went through the snow.
I don't know if you'resupposed to be at work, but you here.
But my name is Ramonda Youngand I am co owner of Mahogany Books
with this amazing man backhere, Mr.
Derek Young.
Yep.
(01:49):
Been in business.
Now in April, it'll be 18years, right?
Yes, 18 years in business.
And in June, we'll be married23 years.
So this is the whole thinggoing on.
I love me some hymns.
So anyway, let me stayfocused, but just a little bit about
Mahogany Books.
Like I said, we've been inbusiness for 18 years.
And we started 18 years ago inour one bedroom apartment in Alexandria,
(02:13):
Virginia.
And the whole premise was, howdo we make black books accessible
no matter where you live?
And this is before all thebook banning got to the level that
it is now.
I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma, andI grew up maybe two miles from Black
Wall Street.
Let me see a show of hands.
Or if you're familiar withBlack Wall Street.
Okay.
Black people.
Okay.
I grew up two miles from BlackWall street, and it was never taught
(02:35):
in my school books.
I never knew it was there allthose years because they kept that
history from us.
And if you know about BlackWall street, there's innovate.
So many innovators.
There were black people whoowned hospitals, dry cleaners, banks,
schools.
I mean, you name it, we hadcreated it.
So I always tell people, if Ihad known those type of thought leaders
and innovators were two milesfrom my home, how much more confident
(02:57):
I'd be, how much more bolder Iwould be, how much taller I would
walk.
Because if they did it, Ialready knew that I could do it.
And so when I think aboutMahogany Books for us, I didn't want
anybody else to not haveaccess to their history because somebody
else didn't think it wasimportant enough.
Right.
So we think it's important enough.
So we said we're going to makethose books accessible.
So that's one of the reasonswhy we exist.
My husband had access to black books.
(03:19):
He's from dc, Proud.
You know, he got all south,south, easy, all that, you know,
from dc, I'm from Oklahoma.
So that's a whole other gotcountry mouse, city mouse thing going,
I guess, huh?
Mm.
But again, it was importantfor us.
So every time we have eventslike this, it just.
It never gets old because youguys took time, intention and resources
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to be here tonight for thislittle bookstore that was started
with a dream and a laptop inan apartment.
And here we are 18 yearslater, still making these books accessible,
still making spaces for us tohave conversations and be ourselves.
And so I just want to saythank you.
Give yourselves a big round ofapplause for being here tonight.
It is important to us.
(04:00):
And I want to give a specialshout out to this library.
It's funny, we've been 18years and we've done so many events
here over the years.
So it's just a blessing and agift for us to still have this space,
still have this relationship.
So let's give it up to theOxen Hill branch.
Yes.
PG Library.
Yes.
Thank you, Duane.
Let me tell you something.
Black people be doing something.
The library is officially closed.
But we have a relationshiphere where they say we'll stay open
(04:24):
for you guys for this type of program.
So it means something deep tous to not just be a space for us,
but also that the libraryjoins us in this way.
So I'm just grateful that Icould see all these melanated faces.
Non melanated.
I don't know who you know, everybody.
Let me just say that.
Get into something.
But thank you.
Thank you for making space for us.
Thank you for sharing timewith us.
(04:45):
Thank you for supportingMahogany Books in such a way at such
a time as this.
I'm not gonna go on my have myTED Talk right now, but y'all know
what to do with y'all dollars,not just for Mahogany Books.
For so many black bookstores,there are a lot.
There's about 162 blackbookstores now across the nation.
It went down to maybe 40 or 50at one point, but 160 that can ship
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and host events for you guys.
So even if you have friends inother places, think about how can
my dollars go there.
I know people can have yourbooks dropped and droned to you in
the middle of the night.
I know who that is.
But also think about, wow, canI use those dollars here?
And impact those bookstoresthat are in my community that host
spaces and events like that?
Think about that when youconsider purchasing.
(05:28):
So anyway, that's my TED Talk,but thank you guys for being here.
So let me get to the.
Y'all didn't come here to see Ramonda.
Let's get to it.
So tonight, I'm excited.
We have two amazing people.
Victoria Christopher Murray ishere tonight, so let's give it up
for her.
Yep.
Yes.
Yes.
Victoria Christopher Murray.
Actually, I think her firstbook was out in 2000, and we've been
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rolling with her almost every since.
And so this is just like afull circle moment for us to have
her here tonight.
We've gotten to work with hermany times over the years, but I'm
excited for you guys to hearabout her newest book, Harlem Rhapsody.
Y'all excited about it?
Let me see if y'all really excited.
Okay?
Okay.
I think y'all excited.
And our conversation host issomebody who's new and dear to us
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probably the last couple yearsor so.
Her name is Morgan Menzies,and she is a book influencer and
does so many things with booksin our community.
Here we do a book switch atour national harbor location and
we partner with her to do thebook swap.
We just had one last weekendand a lot of people come out.
You don't pay for any books.
You just swap out books andhave a good time, get coffee, blah,
blah, blah.
Thank you.
(06:29):
Okay, let me have you come anddo a test.
No, I'm just joking.
So both of them are inconversation tonight.
So please help me welcome andbring to the stage Morgan Menzies
and Victoria Christopher Murray.
Hello, everyone.
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How are you?
Don't mind me.
I just decided that I wasgoing to read something, so I just
have to find it.
I have to find the part I'mgoing to read.
How is everyone?
Good.
Good, good.
Thank you for coming out.
It's nice to see so many faceson this cold day.
I know.
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Has everyone read the book?
Okay, this will be good.
Is it on now?
Okay.
I'm from New York, so I never,ever need a mic, but except for when
they're taping.
So I'm going to read a very,very short part of this novel.
(07:36):
You probably will not be ableto follow along with me, only because
when I'm reading, I knowpeople will hear it differently than
you read it.
So I try to make it a littlebit more interesting.
So I don't read all the words,which is why I had it on my phone,
but I didn't pull it up in time.
So this is the beginning ofthe novel Harlem Rhapsody, about
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the woman who ignited theHarlem Renaissance.
Every time you hear about theHarlem Renaissance, you hear about
people like Langston Hughesand County Cullen.
And none of those people wouldhave existed without Jessie Redmond
Fawcett.
So we are here to give her her flowers.
So this is when the book firstopens up.
(08:23):
The story opens up in October1919, and she arrives in New York
with her mother.
Okay, so I thrust open thetaxicab's door, and the moment my
T strap heals hit the pavement.
A cacophony of soundsmesmerizes me.
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The music enraptures me.
First.
I can't sleep at night.
I can't eat a bite from aVictroller perched near an open window.
The lyrics from Harlem Bluesfloat down, and then Mamie Smith's
contralto drifts into the breeze.
The joyous sound of twogiggling girls skipping past draws
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me from the song.
You're just bumping your gums.
A man shouts, and laughterrises from a circle of men dawdling
in front of the barbershop afew doors away.
I stand there trying to absorbit all, the patter of a thousand
footsteps of men and ladiesand kiddies who are rushing past,
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motor cars chugging andclanking and clicking behind me,
honking horns squealing intothe air.
This isn't a cacophony.
This is a rhapsody, and myheart races to match its beat.
Jessie.
I face my mother and I'msurprised to see her brown eyes framed
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with a frown.
She points to my valise on thesidewalk next to hers.
Are you expecting me to carry both?
Oh.
I laugh, and a smile fills her face.
Apologies, my mom, but we'rein New York.
I twirl in front of her and myrap coat billows at my ankles.
We are.
She gives me a short nod.
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But you're behaving as ifyou've never lived in a big city.
Well, you can't comparePhiladelphia and Washington, D.C.
to this.
New York is everything.
It's music and theater andCome on, my mom.
Carrying my valise, I rushtowards the brownstone, but at the
first step I glance over myshoulder and my mother stands in
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the same spot.
In her gold overcoat andmatching cloth.
She is as fashionable as anyNew Yorker, but her eyes are as wide
as mine as she soaks in thecity's vivacity.
My heart swells for the womanwho didn't birth me, but who for
the last 25 years has nurturedme as if she had.
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You were born from my heart,she told me.
Excuse me, told me since I was 12.
Over the city's music.
I yell out to her, alas, mymom, in the same tone that she used
with me just moments before.
At the front door, my handtrembles with excitement and I try
to steady the key.
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We step into the vestibule andI insert the key.
Before I can insert the key,the door swings open.
Will, welcome to New York.
I study the man that I firstcontacted when I was a student at
Cornell University some 16years ago.
His mustache has been trimmedjust a little since I saw him in
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August, and there is a bitmore silver blending with the jet
black of his beard.
As always, he's impeccablydressed in one of his brown three
piece suits.
Tonight, though, he's wearingthe more formal bow tie rather than
the neckties I know he prefers.
The twinkle in his eyes andhis wide smile draw me closer, however,
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just as I reach for him, Iremember my mother.
How had I forgotten her so quickly?
Well, that is the effect of W.E.B.
du Bois.
His mere presence emits amagnetic force that is difficult
for me to resist.
This is a reminder that nowliving in New York, I must be measured
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in my actions.
This will be different fromseeing Will on his occasional stopovers
in Washington, D.C.
i shift so that my mother canenter our new apartment, but she
doesn't take a single step.
She expects an introduction.
My mom Allow me to present Dr.
William Du Bois.
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Mrs.
Faucet, it is my absolutepleasure to finally make your acquaintance.
He takes her valise.
My mother's smile has vanished.
She steps over the thresholdand greets Will with nothing more
than a Good afternoon.
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Thank you for reading that.
My first question for you is,so you've been writing for 28 years
and this is your 30th book.
That's a lot of work, right?
That is a lot of work.
I have been writing full timefor 28.
Are you 28?
I mean, you might not haveeven been born.
I might have books older than you.
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You don't.
But my question for you is,what does Harlem Rhapsody mean to
you?
And this moment, reflecting onyour career.
You know, that's a really good question.
I feel like this is the bookthat I was meant to write, that I've
waited my entire career thateverything came to this.
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I think it's the mostimportant book I've ever written.
It's important because this isthe woman on whose shoulders I stand.
And I had no idea of her name.
It's a woman who needs her flowers.
We need to all be singing her name.
And I just feel so blessedthat I was chosen to tell her story.
(14:19):
And so, speaking more aboutJessie Redmond Fawcett, can you introduce
us to her and the role thatshe played and some of the individuals
that we do know but don'trecognize the role that she played
in making sure that they havethat notoriety?
Exactly.
Well, I like to say thatJessie Redmond Fawcett was a woman
of firsts.
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She was the first blackgraduate from the Philadelphia High
School of Girls, which is avery well known school.
She was the first black femalegraduate from Cornell University.
She was the first black womanto graduate Phi Beta Kappa.
And then she became the firstand only literary editor of the Crisis
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magazine, which was the mostimportant periodical in the early
20th century.
So this was a woman who.
She was actually the youngestof seven children.
She did not know her mother.
Her mother died before she waseven two years old.
So the woman in the book isher stepmother, who is a white Jewish
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woman.
So that's a whole story.
That's a whole nother story wecould talk about.
But this is a woman who waswell educated during a time when.
Think about this.
This is only 50 years afteremancipation, just 50 years after
the end of slavery.
She graduated from CornellUniversity and then went on to get
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her master's as well.
And then when she became theliterary editor of the Crisis magazine,
she was brought there by Web.
We'll talk a little bit about why.
But he put her in the position.
Is that Kwame?
Hi, Kwame.
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He put her in the position ofliterary editor.
And so she decided to turn itinto something.
Something for real.
And so she started going outand discovering people, meeting people
and finding people.
And she found Countee Cullenwhen he was 16 years old.
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She found Langston Hughes whenhe was 17 years old.
I have pictures sometimes thatI use and show, and you have not
seen these men so young.
She found Nella Larson whenNella had just gotten married, just
started working at the library.
All of these people that youknow, as fully developed artists,
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she found them before they hada career, and they have careers because
of Jessie Redmond Fawcett.
So it's important for us tostart with all of her accolades and
to acknowledge who she isindependently, because now we'll
get into a little bit of the mess.
Yeah, a little bit of the mess.
(17:20):
And that's what people,everybody on Instagram is calling.
They say, ooh, this book's messy.
Ooh, this good.
And I was like, I did notwrite a messy book.
I didn't.
You did.
I did.
I didn't.
Look, it ain't my fault.
This was on them.
So what mess are you speakingabout specifically?
Well, there was a gentlemanthat you mentioned earlier, W.E.B.
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dubois.
And I'm curious, curious abouttheir relationship and how she came
to have the role as literary editor.
Yes.
So she met him.
So this was very interesting.
In 1903, her father passed away.
Her father passed away January3, 1903.
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And she was very close to himbecause he had seven children.
Five of them had died, allduring childbirth and all during
different points in their thing.
And she was the youngest, andshe was alive, and they were very
close.
And so she had watched hersiblings die and everything, and
now her father's gone.
And three years before the endof that same.
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Three days before the end ofthat same year, she contacted W.E.B.
du Bois because she had justfinished reading his book, the Souls
of Black Folk.
And she finished reading hisbook, and she loved it.
And she just wanted to reachout to him and to say, you know,
my father was trying to teachme some of these lessons, and I learned
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him through you, through this book.
And it's wonderful.
So thank you.
And he responded and they became.
And I said on npr, I use thisterm like pen pals, because think
about this.
This was 1903, so they weren'ton the phone, they weren't hopping
in Ubers.
So most of the time they wouldjust try on paper letters.
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And so for 10 years, he washer mentor.
For 10 years, he guided her,told her to go get her master's,
he told her to go to Paris tostudy languages.
He really helped.
He helped her to get jobs atFisk University, where he had graduated.
So he was a mentor to her.
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And then in 1914, they met,and she was this young, nice looking
woman, and he was this older,married man.
And one of the things that Iask people to do when reading this
book is to read it with 20thcentury eyes.
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Do you know what I mean by that?
100 years ago.
Think about this woman whodidn't even have the right to vote.
Think about this woman whocouldn't have gotten an apartment
by herself because womencouldn't even have their name on
a lease.
Think about this woman who hadno bank account or financial records.
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Wives didn't leave theirhusbands because you broke up with
Your husband, you had to goback home to your parents.
She couldn't even get a leaseor anything.
So Jessie was a woman ahead ofher time because she had a career.
Women didn't have careers.
And she wanted a career.
And so she was a woman whowanted a career.
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And she never saw how shecould have be married and have a
career.
So she was like, okay, I don'twanna marry you.
She certainly didn't wannamarry Will.
Cause she know he would cheat.
So she, you know, shecertainly didn't want him.
She wanted a career.
And then they had this relationship.
And it's not my fault they hada relationship.
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I did try to write the bookwithout it.
I considered that.
Well, so can you share moreabout the letters and the language
that they were using with eachother and how you were able to read
between the lines that therewas more there?
Yes.
So I, there are a lot of, Ithink the best source of information
that you can use in writinghistorical fiction are letters, are
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the personal letters.
Which is why I've told mydaughter that before I check out
of here, everything better golike I don't want no letters.
And so my daughter says, buteverything is like in the icloud
now.
I'm like, you better figure itout because you're not getting nothing
until everything is gone.
Because I feel like it's intrusive.
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I've read these letters andwhen he was writing my dearest Jesse
and you know, nobody sayswe're having an affair.
They just say things like Isaid outside your home last night
and looked into the window andwished I could come.
You know, that kind of thing.
That's the kind of thing thatyou don't write to your best friend
or to a co worker.
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But where I really found out.
Oh, okay.
Well maybe.
Or maybe you do 21st century letters.
Yes.
This is a whole nother book.
Those are the kinds of books Iused to write.
But this where I found outmostly about their affair was through
the web biography written byDavid Lewis.
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And it was a Pulitzer Prizewinning book where he talked about
all the women that WEB had.
But he made a distinctionbetween Jesse and all the other women.
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He like pulled her out of theparagraph almost.
And then he said that theywere star crossed lovers.
That's very specific, isn't it?
Star crossed lovers.
Do you remember where youheard that?
In high school with Romeo and Juliet.
That's the only time I've everheard that.
And then he said, so I gotwhat that was.
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So I knew how to build aRelationship with that.
And then he said they had aparallel marriage.
That part I didn't get.
I didn't get that part at all.
But I don't know if youremember, at my launch, Abby Phillips
was interviewing me.
And Abby said she knew exactlywhat a parallel marriage meant because
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she said they had a decadelong affair.
She was like, that's a marriage.
By the time you're there.
That long.
That's a marriage.
So that's what she thinks it meant.
I had no idea.
So that's what was happening.
And that's why I knew they hadan affair.
I would have never writtenthat they had an affair unless I
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was absolutely sure, becausethat changes the character of someone
and changes everything.
When I said I tried to leavethat part out, I did, but then I
found myself with plot holeslike, why did she end up in New York?
Even the way she wrote herfirst novel, it was because of them.
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Even the title of her firstnovel, there is confusion.
She wrote because of them.
Seriously.
It came from their relationship.
And then she wrote a poem.
Remember that poem?
And I won't take it away.
And the last line in thatpoem, if I had.
And that was one of her mostwell known poems.
And if I had written that poemin there and not had the affair,
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people would have said,victoria's just going to leave that
there and not explain whatthat means.
You'll know exactly what I'mtalking about when you get to that
part.
So there were plot holes.
And even when I was writingcontemporary fiction, I always tried
to tell the truth.
I always tried to tell thetruth of the characters.
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And so here we had real people.
I couldn't tell the story andnot tell the truth.
And speaking of the realpeople that we meet throughout the
book, the way that you're ableto breathe life into each of the
characters is very vivid.
And it's like we'retransported into the Harlem Renaissance.
(25:28):
And so I wanted to know if youcan share a little bit about, like,
Langston Hughes and CounteeCullen in terms of their understanding
of blackness during that timeand how you really, like, get us
to see that some of thechallenges that we're facing today
are.
What they were really the same.
(25:48):
So I did.
That was the best part ofwriting this book.
Somebody said that HarlemRhapsody feels like a black family
reunion of all of theseauthors and everything that come
to life.
I wasn't thinking about thefact that I was bringing all of these
people to life because thefocus to me was for Jessie.
But what was so great abouther, because she was meeting these
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people very young.
So they wanted to be writers.
They didn't know how to write.
So not only was she teachingthem, but she was helping to guide
them through life.
And so Langston, I think, hadsome of the biggest challenges because
he went to New York and hewent as a student at Columbia University.
And when he got there, theyrealized he was black and wouldn't
(26:31):
allow him to be in the dormitory.
And so then he had no place tosleep, no place to go.
He ended up at the ymca.
And Columbia University justrecently apologized to him, made
it a public apology to himabout that.
So you're like, it's too late now.
(26:52):
But I kind of thought that wasspecial, that they recognized all
the things that they had donewrong at that time, because professors
wouldn't meet with him, and hewas really miserable there.
But Jesse helped to guide himthrough the year that he stayed.
So that was one of his challenges.
One of her other authors, JeanToomer, had been a student of hers
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here in Washington, D.C.
oh, I forgot to mention.
She taught at Dunbar High School.
And so that's where she wasone of the top teachers there.
And he was a student there.
His name was Eugene Pinchbackat the time.
So when he decided to write,he decided to change his name.
I think that was a good idea.
And so he became Gene Toomer.
(27:37):
Gene Toomer did not want to beknown as a black author.
I mean, like, really, he wasreally upset about it.
He said that he had more whitein him than black.
And he said, I mean, he did, though.
And he said he didn't writethe book with his five black fingers,
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and he didn't write the bookwith the left side of just the white
part of his brain.
So why couldn't he be known asan American writer?
And that actually cost him.
But she helped him navigatethrough all of that.
She helped Nella Larsonnavigate through feelings of self
esteem and not feeling up tothe Harlem elite.
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Because this is the talented10th we're talking about.
Because think about it.
50 years after slavery, thesewere college educated children, young
people.
They all had their issues thatwe're facing today.
Jessie was the one who notonly edited them and made sure they
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became writers, she helpedthem navigate through life.
And with each of the writers,we do see a lot of poetry and thinking
about the Harlem Renaissance.
Like we think about music andjazz, and in some ways, the music
can be poetry.
And so I wanted to know yourthoughts on what do you think it
was that the writers weregravitating so much towards poetry
(29:06):
in the way that they couldconvey their feelings during the
time.
Yeah.
Cause that's where they all started.
But they all ended up writing novels.
So that's what I foundfascinating, that they were like,
I can't write poetry.
I need 400 pages to tell my story.
But I found it fascinatingthat they could write poetry and
then they could write a noveland they could go back and forth.
(29:27):
And so Jesse as well.
So I think poetry was the wayfor them to get started as writers
and they could do it in ashorter fashion.
And Jesse really encouragedthem to be black, to tell the truth
of their stories of living asyoung black people in America, that
(29:50):
still wasn't accepting them.
Because while this great thingwas happening in Harlem, and it was
called the New Negro movement,at the time, we call it the Harlem
Renaissance, they were stilllynching every black man they could
find in the South.
You know, they were still black.
Women couldn't get jobs.
Nobody could vote.
So that was still happeningwhile there was this black pride
(30:15):
rising in Harlem.
And it's interesting with whatyou were just talking about.
So we have the right to vote.
Some are passing, and thenothers are very proud in their blackness.
And we can almost have yourbooks, your historical fiction books
in conversation with oneanother where you.
Right, That's a good point.
(30:35):
I told you.
Yeah.
Because I wrote the PersonalLibrarian and the first lady.
Anybody read the Personal Librarian?
So.
Ok.
Thank you.
And so, yeah, I guess thepersonal librarian, because it was
about the same time she couldbe in conversation with Jessie, and
Jesse would be like, girl, you black.
Come on, just be black.
And Belle would say, no,because I have a better life than
(30:58):
you.
You can't go to the restaurantacross the street.
I can.
So that would be interesting.
It would.
But then we also have MaryMcLeod Bethune, and she would just
take over.
She would take over the twowomen and say, look, you all follow
me.
You don't need to ask no questions.
Just follow me and I'll get you.
Right.
But there would be no passing.
(31:20):
No.
Yeah.
No, Mary.
No.
Mary was like, we black, andwe gonna.
We're proud to be black.
That's right.
Yes.
And another question.
So now, as you think aboutHarlem Rhapsody, all that it has
accomplished, and havingJesse's name out there, have you
started thinking about otherwomen whose stories we may not know
(31:43):
that you want to bring to life?
Yes.
So I just finished my thirdnovel with Marie.
So we just finished, and wecan't say too much about it, but
we tell everybody that it'sabout a black woman and a white woman
and the mob.
That's all we can say about that.
And it's based on.
(32:03):
All of this is true stories.
All of these are black womenwho've been hidden in history.
And so then I'm thinking aboutsome of my what I can do for my next
solo.
And I just discovered.
I don't know if it's a bigstory there, but have you all heard
of Sag Harbor?
Two black women.
(32:23):
Two sisters started that.
Oh, you know about that?
Two sisters.
See that famous beach?
It belongs to us.
So I do.
I want to find these kinds ofstories, and I think they're especially
important now, reallyimportant now, as they try to ban
(32:46):
everything.
I believe that a historyuntold is a history erased.
So what I've got to do is gofind the stories so that they won't
be erased.
Because if I hadn't foundJessie, who knows when someone would
have told her story.
And if no one ever did, shewould have been totally erased.
(33:07):
So now I feel like it's my jobto find the untold stories.
I do know that we're going tobe up against something because I
saw some authors today talkingabout the Department of Defense,
and all kinds of people noware coming after us.
And books are being banned ata faster rate.
So I would expect some of my books.
(33:29):
I know my book Stand you'dground is banned in some parts of
Florida, but go ahead and ban me.
I'll just write faster.
I'll just write faster.
All right, so we're going toopen it up to audience questions.
And this is my favorite part.
(33:49):
So if y'all don't start askingquestions, I'm gonna, like, call
on you.
Actually, if you have aquestion, can you line up over here?
We'll open up for a few questions.
You have a question?
Don't be scared.
Come over here and line upwith me.
Is it not?
Can you guys hear me a little bit?
Okay, you're first.
Hello.
(34:10):
Hi.
How are you?
Sarar Good.
See how these Deltas we represent?
So how do you find these women?
Yeah.
And, you know, it'sinteresting because how I found Jesse,
I always say, Jesse found me.
(34:30):
I didn't go looking for Jessie.
I said, okay, I'm going tohave to write this book, and I'm
going to have to spend twoyears with this person because it
takes me much longer to writethese books than it took me to write
Jasmine.
And so I said, what do I wantto write about?
And I decided I'd Want towrite about a writer.
And I was thinking, oh, New York.
I'm from New York, and Ireally like the 1920s.
(34:52):
So I found the Harlem Renaissance.
Like, I kind of bumped intothe Harlem Renaissance that way.
And I said, that's really kindof cool.
Let me go find some women ofthe Harlem Renaissance.
And I was just doing surfaceresearch, meaning don't.
Don't trust the Internet.
Everything in Wikipedia is wrong.
So seriously.
So, yeah.
(35:12):
Cause it's just regular peoplemaking up lies.
It was like fiction.
And so I was googling, tryingto find out.
Women of the HarlemRenaissance saw nothing.
Everything was all about the men.
Sometimes Nella Larson wouldcome up, or Zora Neale Hurston.
And then something came upwhen I said, the women of the Harlem
Renaissance.
(35:32):
I heard.
I saw a podcast called Harlemon My Mind by Tremaine Lee.
And so I went and listened to them.
They were all good.
The third episode was aboutthis woman named Jessie Redmond Fawcett.
And it was just 30 minutes,but I was fascinated because they
said she discovered these authors.
And I was like, well, how doyou discover Langston?
(35:54):
I know Langston, but I don'tknow you.
And that's how I found her.
So I always say she found me,because I didn't go looking for Jessie.
I went looking for the Harlem Renaissance.
And I just happened to bereading something about black beaches,
historically black beaches.
And I saw this thing about Sagharbor and these two women, two sisters.
(36:17):
And I was like, why don't Iknow that?
So whenever I say to myself,why don't I know that?
I know that y'all don't know that.
And then that's what I want towrite about.
Hi.
First, I want to say thank youfor writing this book.
So I'm a fan of the Harlem Renaissance.
Oh.
So my first question is, whatpart of New York are you from?
(36:39):
And then my second question iswith the.
I guess, the black elite ofthat time.
Like, how does that fit into.
That's around, like, you got,what, the Great Depression, Right.
Also that's going on.
So, like, the elite, what isthat based off of?
What is the talented 10?
Are you talking about that?
Yes.
(37:00):
Yes.
So I'm from Queens, and Ialways tell people I got there before
the rappers.
So I'm kind of aging myself.
But, you know, Web believed inthe talented 10.
And what that was was, thinkabout it.
50 years after slavery, hefelt that only about 10% of the black
(37:22):
race would be able to go tocollege, and it was going to have
to Be the college educatedblack people to lead the 90%.
So that's where you got thatblack elitism from.
And the talented 10th.
And some people say that'sstill around today.
(37:42):
You know, people say thatespecially black people who go to
HBCUs, they think they'rebetter than everybody.
We do, but.
We do.
It's really bad.
We do, but, you know, they'restill around.
We do.
I don't know what it is, butthink about it.
For four years, we had people,all black people, telling us we were
(38:03):
excellent.
That's why I think everyperson needs to go to an hbcu, because
for four years, you're gonnahave somebody telling you you're
excellent the whole time.
So that is still around, isyour question?
Yeah, I guess I'm kind ofstruggling with the, like, the lynchings
(38:23):
and the like.
Do they send money back down South?
Like, how does that.
Because when I think of elite,I'm thinking of that more of like,
you have money, you have amiddle class.
Like, what does that look like?
And then what did that looklike in the 1920s?
Yes.
And then you have the.
Yeah, the lynchings that are happening.
Yeah, that's what was so weird.
(38:45):
Like, W.E.B.
du Bois was the first blackman to get his PhD from Harvard,
yet he couldn't go into most restaurants.
Think about that.
Yeah, right, right.
I guess that's kind of thestruggle, like in my head.
Yeah, the head.
That was their life.
That was in my book first ladies.
(39:06):
Mary McLeod Bethune used tohave to ride in a colored car to
go from Florida to D.C.
to see the President.
She was going to see thePresident of the United States, but
she had to ride in the colored car.
So they had a life.
See, we have this life that wehave forgotten the way it was for
(39:27):
them.
I mean, think about that.
They had money, but they stillwere black.
And they still couldn't gointo a restaurant.
They still couldn't go into a store.
They still had to switch tothe colored car.
When they got to Washington, D.C.
they still had to do that.
That didn't change.
You could be elite.
You were still black.
(39:51):
I don't know if I answeredyour question.
Her stepmother was Jewish.
So that's an interesting point.
Let me talk a little bit aboutyou coming over about her stepmother.
So I wondered why herstepmother, who was a widow, so her
father was a widower withseven children.
That's a black man.
(40:13):
Then this white Jewish womanwas a widow with three children.
So I kept wondering, why inthe world would a white woman marry
A black man with.
They got a baseball team nowwith all those kids.
But why would you marry ablack man Right at the rise of Jim
(40:35):
Crow, all of the stuff thatyou were just describing.
And I couldn't start the bookuntil I knew that, because her mother
was going to be a big part of it.
And I was like, why would shemarry this?
We're talking about the late1800s when they got married.
And it took me three weeks.
I was talking to my agent.
We were like, well, maybeJewish and black people were treated
(40:55):
the same.
It was crazy.
And then something made me goto the census.
After about three weeks, Iwent to the census.
Her first husband was black.
She just was gonna marry blackpeople because she was an integrationist.
Have you ever heard that term?
I had never heard that term.
After abolitionists, then,after slavery ended, they became
(41:18):
integrationists.
They believed in the fullintegration of the races for equality.
They felt that was the onlyway to get equality.
So Bella Huff, that was hername, she was gonna integrate the
country by herself.
Cause she had three childrenwith this black man, and she was
gonna have three children withthat black man.
If she had married again, shewould have had three children with
(41:39):
him.
So, yeah.
So she was a Jewish woman,which plays an important part in
Jessie's being raised and howshe was raised.
Hi.
Hi, everybody.
So it wasn't a question.
I wanted to respond to whatshe was saying, because I'm from
Washington, D.C.
born and raised.
My great grandmother was bornin Washington, D.C.
(42:01):
in 1906.
So she, you know, would tellus stories about, you know, Washington,
D.C.
is a segregated.
Yeah, still is.
Right.
And so my brother and I werejust having this conversation the
other day, and we were talking about.
I said, you know, when you'rewhite, when you're rich white, you
live here.
When you're poor white, youlive here.
You know, they separate.
(42:22):
But when you're black, like inthe Lee Joy park area in Washington,
D.C.
or the Shaw area inWashington, D.C.
the rich black, the poorblack, the working class black, all
of the black people livedtogether because they couldn't live
anyplace else.
And so that's kind of, youknow, to what she was talking about.
(42:43):
You know, the things that wehad to endure that maybe.
Of course they didn't becausethey had a bigger stress.
So.
Yeah, well, they had freedom.
They could live any way theywanted to.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, or marry two black men.
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
I couldn't believe it.
I spent all that time tryingto figure out, why in the world would
(43:03):
she Marry the.
A black man.
That's.
Cause that's what she did.
Hi.
So I'm a Brooklyn girl.
Brooklyn and the house.
And my question is, I guessNew York related.
How much of a character is NewYork in the book?
That is one of the things thatI'm proud.
I'm very proud of, is peoplesay they feel like they are in Harlem
(43:24):
when they read this book.
I spent five weeks in Harlemto write the book.
And it's really interesting.
I was telling somebody todaythat it's 100 years later.
So of course, it's not thesame, but some of the buildings are
still there.
The church was still there.
The building where she livedwas still there.
(43:46):
But Harlem, the streets ofHarlem, pulse, they have an energy
by themselves, and it's still there.
And so I stayed in Harlem, andI did all of my research at the Schomburg,
which was the library of theHarlem Renaissance.
It was called the 135th StreetLibrary that then.
(44:07):
And in fact, my second stop onmy tour, I got to sign at the Schomburg
Speak in Shine.
And that was crazy becausethey only let, like, real authors,
like, you know, people whowould write important books there.
And so they were.
They had to read the book.
They knew I had done myresearch there, and they had to read
the book.
And they were like, do wereally want this, you know, person
(44:30):
here?
And I was.
And so they said, well, whatabout another library?
I said, nope, Schomburger bust.
That's it.
And it was like, almost likethe last day before we were putting
out my tour out, that theysaid, okay, she could do it.
And that was like, one of thehighest honors of my career.
I couldn't believe.
And 250 people showed up in Harlem.
(44:52):
So that was cool.
That was really cool.
We have time for one more question.
One more.
People are like, maybe I'mgonna come to you.
I saw her hand up first.
And then we'll do this.
Your books are signed, butwe'll do a photo line.
If you want to take photos, wegot VIP treatment.
(45:12):
I'm coming over here.
Okay.
Ms.
Victoria, I have known yousince I was, like, 18.
I know she was gonna saysomething like that.
I could tell as soon as yousaid Ms.
Victoria.
So that's a.
When I first moved to DC, youmet me at a coffee shop because.
(45:33):
My mom knew you.
And so, yeah, I'll tell you why.
But obviously, you have sortof shifted in the genre in which
you're writing with or writing about.
You know, when you werevisiting my hometown the ladies loved
you, but you had much more,like, I think, church books, more
(45:55):
romance books.
What has shifted in yourwriting and your storytelling made
me want to do that.
Yeah.
So it's really interestingbecause I've never in my life written
romance.
Like, but people thought mybooks were romance, but I don't read
romance.
I've never in my life written romance.
But people thought that.
And I didn't even know I waswriting Christian fiction.
(46:16):
Like, I wrote.
When I wrote Temptation, Ijust wrote a book.
And then when we were trying.
When my agent was trying tosell it, she tried to sell it to
mainstream publishers.
And they were like, oh, it hastoo much God in it.
You know?
And so she said, well, we'llgo to the Christian people.
Cause that'll be better.
And it was worse.
Cause they didn't like thetitle Temptation.
(46:37):
I was like, really?
Okay, let's change.
I want it to be published so bad.
They could have changed it toCrossing the River Jordan.
I didn't care.
But then they read the first50 pages, and they were talking about
their sex in this book.
And I was like, okay, but see,Black Christians have sex.
But I couldn't get publishedwith a Christian.
So it took two years.
(46:58):
It took a long time.
But I wasn't writing to any genre.
This is the first time in mylife that I've really written to
a genre.
It's very interesting, right?
And one of the best reviews Iever got was for the Personal Librarian.
And the reviewer said thatMarie, my co author, wrote about
(47:19):
versatile women in her past.
And that Victoria ChristopherMurray is the most versatile writer
that he had ever known.
That she could really write anything.
So it wasn't that I had a shift.
I just write what's in my heart.
When I was called and asked towrite the Personal Librarian with
the co author, I said, sure.
(47:40):
Something new, something different.
I wasn't thinking abouthistorical fiction.
The story sounded great, butit wasn't until I wrote it that I
realized how importanthistorical fiction was.
I think of all the genres outthere, and especially now in today's
times, this is the mostimportant genre to write in.
(48:02):
So I didn't feel like I've shifted.
But if I've shifted, I'm staying.
You don't have to worry aboutno more shifts.
I'm gonna find every blackwoman y'all ain't never heard of.
Yes, everyone.
And in 20 years, you gonnaknow 20 new black people.
And you gonna tell everybodyfor me.
(48:24):
So absolutely give it up forVictoria Christopher Murray.
Thank you.
So can I say one more thing.
Of course.
This is great.
So thank you everyone forcoming out.
One thing people often ask meone of the things I noticed, and
I'm sorry you didn't get yourquestion, but people often ask me,
what can they do to help a writer?
(48:46):
And black writers really needyour help.
But all of us need your help.
And to me, I think there arethree things you can do.
The first thing is, ElonHarris told me the only way he built
up his following was by havingeverybody just tell five people.
(49:09):
Just five people.
Word of mouth spreads any book.
And so if you can just tellfive people if you enjoy Harlem Rhapsody,
that would help so much.
The second thing that I justlearned now that's so important and
you, I don't know if you knewis reviews.
(49:30):
I didn't know that.
And writing a review canchange an author's career.
It changes the algorithm.
So it doesn't matter if you dothe review on Amazon or Goodreads,
they'll connect.
But if you can write a reviewfor any author, that one review is
going to go a long way.
(49:50):
And the third thing is thebeginning of the book sales.
The first month is soimportant because it's like the movies.
If people are going to see themovies, they keep it in the theaters.
The same thing will happen.
And so if you can beambassadors for us and support the
(50:13):
black independent bookstores,because those are the ones who are
hand selling out books.
Those are the ones who knowthe authors and they could say, oh,
I saw Victoria yesterday.
If you can do that and tellpeople they can do that and you can
buy their books online.
Like, if you don't think youlive close enough, they.
(50:35):
They do have online sales.
So if you could be myambassadors, I would greatly, greatly
appreciate it.
But thank you for coming outtonight because it's kind of cold,
kind of cold out there.
Thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you.
And thank you, Morgan.
I asked Morgan to do this for me.
She wasn't she great.
Thank you.
(50:56):
Discover a world where wordsignite change.
Tune in to Black Books Matter,the podcast where we celebrate the
profound impact of AfricanAmerican literature.
Join us as we delve intoiconic works and hidden gems, discussing
their power to shape minds andtransform societies.
Get ready for thoughtprovoking discussions, author interviews
(51:18):
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Don't miss out.
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(01:05):
today's top writers.
Or tune in to real ballersRead, where brothers Jan and Miles
invite amazing people to talkabout the meaningful books in their
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So whether you're a literatureenthusiast, enthusiast, an advocate
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Network on your favoriteplatform and let African American
(01:27):
literature ignite your passion.
How y'all feeling?
Let me tell you about y'all.
Y'all done went through the snow.
I don't know if you'resupposed to be at work, but you here.
But my name is Ramonda Youngand I am co owner of Mahogany Books
with this amazing man backhere, Mr.
Derek Young.
Yep.
(01:49):
Been in business.
Now in April, it'll be 18years, right?
Yes, 18 years in business.
And in June, we'll be married23 years.
So this is the whole thinggoing on.
I love me some hymns.
So anyway, let me stayfocused, but just a little bit about
Mahogany Books.
Like I said, we've been inbusiness for 18 years.
And we started 18 years ago inour one bedroom apartment in Alexandria,
(02:13):
Virginia.
And the whole premise was, howdo we make black books accessible
no matter where you live?
And this is before all thebook banning got to the level that
it is now.
I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma, andI grew up maybe two miles from Black
Wall Street.
Let me see a show of hands.
Or if you're familiar withBlack Wall Street.
Okay.
Black people.
Okay.
I grew up two miles from BlackWall street, and it was never taught
(02:35):
in my school books.
I never knew it was there allthose years because they kept that
history from us.
And if you know about BlackWall street, there's innovate.
So many innovators.
There were black people whoowned hospitals, dry cleaners, banks,
schools.
I mean, you name it, we hadcreated it.
So I always tell people, if Ihad known those type of thought leaders
and innovators were two milesfrom my home, how much more confident
(02:57):
I'd be, how much more bolder Iwould be, how much taller I would
walk.
Because if they did it, Ialready knew that I could do it.
And so when I think aboutMahogany Books for us, I didn't want
anybody else to not haveaccess to their history because somebody
else didn't think it wasimportant enough.
Right.
So we think it's important enough.
So we said we're going to makethose books accessible.
So that's one of the reasonswhy we exist.
My husband had access to black books.
(03:19):
He's from dc, Proud.
You know, he got all south,south, easy, all that, you know,
from dc, I'm from Oklahoma.
So that's a whole other gotcountry mouse, city mouse thing going,
I guess, huh?
Mm.
But again, it was importantfor us.
So every time we have eventslike this, it just.
It never gets old because youguys took time, intention and resources
(03:40):
to be here tonight for thislittle bookstore that was started
with a dream and a laptop inan apartment.
And here we are 18 yearslater, still making these books accessible,
still making spaces for us tohave conversations and be ourselves.
And so I just want to saythank you.
Give yourselves a big round ofapplause for being here tonight.
It is important to us.
(04:00):
And I want to give a specialshout out to this library.
It's funny, we've been 18years and we've done so many events
here over the years.
So it's just a blessing and agift for us to still have this space,
still have this relationship.
So let's give it up to theOxen Hill branch.
Yes.
PG Library.
Yes.
Thank you, Duane.
Let me tell you something.
Black people be doing something.
The library is officially closed.
But we have a relationshiphere where they say we'll stay open
(04:24):
for you guys for this type of program.
So it means something deep tous to not just be a space for us,
but also that the libraryjoins us in this way.
So I'm just grateful that Icould see all these melanated faces.
Non melanated.
I don't know who you know, everybody.
Let me just say that.
Get into something.
But thank you.
Thank you for making space for us.
Thank you for sharing timewith us.
(04:45):
Thank you for supportingMahogany Books in such a way at such
a time as this.
I'm not gonna go on my have myTED Talk right now, but y'all know
what to do with y'all dollars,not just for Mahogany Books.
For so many black bookstores,there are a lot.
There's about 162 blackbookstores now across the nation.
It went down to maybe 40 or 50at one point, but 160 that can ship
(05:06):
and host events for you guys.
So even if you have friends inother places, think about how can
my dollars go there.
I know people can have yourbooks dropped and droned to you in
the middle of the night.
I know who that is.
But also think about, wow, canI use those dollars here?
And impact those bookstoresthat are in my community that host
spaces and events like that?
Think about that when youconsider purchasing.
(05:28):
So anyway, that's my TED Talk,but thank you guys for being here.
So let me get to the.
Y'all didn't come here to see Ramonda.
Let's get to it.
So tonight, I'm excited.
We have two amazing people.
Victoria Christopher Murray ishere tonight, so let's give it up
for her.
Yep.
Yes.
Yes.
Victoria Christopher Murray.
Actually, I think her firstbook was out in 2000, and we've been
(05:48):
rolling with her almost every since.
And so this is just like afull circle moment for us to have
her here tonight.
We've gotten to work with hermany times over the years, but I'm
excited for you guys to hearabout her newest book, Harlem Rhapsody.
Y'all excited about it?
Let me see if y'all really excited.
Okay?
Okay.
I think y'all excited.
And our conversation host issomebody who's new and dear to us
(06:09):
probably the last couple yearsor so.
Her name is Morgan Menzies,and she is a book influencer and
does so many things with booksin our community.
Here we do a book switch atour national harbor location and
we partner with her to do thebook swap.
We just had one last weekendand a lot of people come out.
You don't pay for any books.
You just swap out books andhave a good time, get coffee, blah,
blah, blah.
Thank you.
(06:29):
Okay, let me have you come anddo a test.
No, I'm just joking.
So both of them are inconversation tonight.
So please help me welcome andbring to the stage Morgan Menzies
and Victoria Christopher Murray.
Hello, everyone.
(06:51):
How are you?
Don't mind me.
I just decided that I wasgoing to read something, so I just
have to find it.
I have to find the part I'mgoing to read.
How is everyone?
Good.
Good, good.
Thank you for coming out.
It's nice to see so many faceson this cold day.
I know.
(07:12):
Has everyone read the book?
Okay, this will be good.
Is it on now?
Okay.
I'm from New York, so I never,ever need a mic, but except for when
they're taping.
So I'm going to read a very,very short part of this novel.
(07:36):
You probably will not be ableto follow along with me, only because
when I'm reading, I knowpeople will hear it differently than
you read it.
So I try to make it a littlebit more interesting.
So I don't read all the words,which is why I had it on my phone,
but I didn't pull it up in time.
So this is the beginning ofthe novel Harlem Rhapsody, about
(08:01):
the woman who ignited theHarlem Renaissance.
Every time you hear about theHarlem Renaissance, you hear about
people like Langston Hughesand County Cullen.
And none of those people wouldhave existed without Jessie Redmond
Fawcett.
So we are here to give her her flowers.
So this is when the book firstopens up.
(08:23):
The story opens up in October1919, and she arrives in New York
with her mother.
Okay, so I thrust open thetaxicab's door, and the moment my
T strap heals hit the pavement.
A cacophony of soundsmesmerizes me.
(08:44):
The music enraptures me.
First.
I can't sleep at night.
I can't eat a bite from aVictroller perched near an open window.
The lyrics from Harlem Bluesfloat down, and then Mamie Smith's
contralto drifts into the breeze.
The joyous sound of twogiggling girls skipping past draws
(09:08):
me from the song.
You're just bumping your gums.
A man shouts, and laughterrises from a circle of men dawdling
in front of the barbershop afew doors away.
I stand there trying to absorbit all, the patter of a thousand
footsteps of men and ladiesand kiddies who are rushing past,
(09:29):
motor cars chugging andclanking and clicking behind me,
honking horns squealing intothe air.
This isn't a cacophony.
This is a rhapsody, and myheart races to match its beat.
Jessie.
I face my mother and I'msurprised to see her brown eyes framed
(09:50):
with a frown.
She points to my valise on thesidewalk next to hers.
Are you expecting me to carry both?
Oh.
I laugh, and a smile fills her face.
Apologies, my mom, but we'rein New York.
I twirl in front of her and myrap coat billows at my ankles.
We are.
She gives me a short nod.
(10:11):
But you're behaving as ifyou've never lived in a big city.
Well, you can't comparePhiladelphia and Washington, D.C.
to this.
New York is everything.
It's music and theater andCome on, my mom.
Carrying my valise, I rushtowards the brownstone, but at the
first step I glance over myshoulder and my mother stands in
(10:32):
the same spot.
In her gold overcoat andmatching cloth.
She is as fashionable as anyNew Yorker, but her eyes are as wide
as mine as she soaks in thecity's vivacity.
My heart swells for the womanwho didn't birth me, but who for
the last 25 years has nurturedme as if she had.
(10:57):
You were born from my heart,she told me.
Excuse me, told me since I was 12.
Over the city's music.
I yell out to her, alas, mymom, in the same tone that she used
with me just moments before.
At the front door, my handtrembles with excitement and I try
to steady the key.
(11:17):
We step into the vestibule andI insert the key.
Before I can insert the key,the door swings open.
Will, welcome to New York.
I study the man that I firstcontacted when I was a student at
Cornell University some 16years ago.
His mustache has been trimmedjust a little since I saw him in
(11:39):
August, and there is a bitmore silver blending with the jet
black of his beard.
As always, he's impeccablydressed in one of his brown three
piece suits.
Tonight, though, he's wearingthe more formal bow tie rather than
the neckties I know he prefers.
The twinkle in his eyes andhis wide smile draw me closer, however,
(12:03):
just as I reach for him, Iremember my mother.
How had I forgotten her so quickly?
Well, that is the effect of W.E.B.
du Bois.
His mere presence emits amagnetic force that is difficult
for me to resist.
This is a reminder that nowliving in New York, I must be measured
(12:24):
in my actions.
This will be different fromseeing Will on his occasional stopovers
in Washington, D.C.
i shift so that my mother canenter our new apartment, but she
doesn't take a single step.
She expects an introduction.
My mom Allow me to present Dr.
William Du Bois.
(12:45):
Mrs.
Faucet, it is my absolutepleasure to finally make your acquaintance.
He takes her valise.
My mother's smile has vanished.
She steps over the thresholdand greets Will with nothing more
than a Good afternoon.
(13:10):
Thank you for reading that.
My first question for you is,so you've been writing for 28 years
and this is your 30th book.
That's a lot of work, right?
That is a lot of work.
I have been writing full timefor 28.
Are you 28?
I mean, you might not haveeven been born.
I might have books older than you.
(13:31):
You don't.
But my question for you is,what does Harlem Rhapsody mean to
you?
And this moment, reflecting onyour career.
You know, that's a really good question.
I feel like this is the bookthat I was meant to write, that I've
waited my entire career thateverything came to this.
(13:55):
I think it's the mostimportant book I've ever written.
It's important because this isthe woman on whose shoulders I stand.
And I had no idea of her name.
It's a woman who needs her flowers.
We need to all be singing her name.
And I just feel so blessedthat I was chosen to tell her story.
(14:19):
And so, speaking more aboutJessie Redmond Fawcett, can you introduce
us to her and the role thatshe played and some of the individuals
that we do know but don'trecognize the role that she played
in making sure that they havethat notoriety?
Exactly.
Well, I like to say thatJessie Redmond Fawcett was a woman
of firsts.
(14:40):
She was the first blackgraduate from the Philadelphia High
School of Girls, which is avery well known school.
She was the first black femalegraduate from Cornell University.
She was the first black womanto graduate Phi Beta Kappa.
And then she became the firstand only literary editor of the Crisis
(15:04):
magazine, which was the mostimportant periodical in the early
20th century.
So this was a woman who.
She was actually the youngestof seven children.
She did not know her mother.
Her mother died before she waseven two years old.
So the woman in the book isher stepmother, who is a white Jewish
(15:28):
woman.
So that's a whole story.
That's a whole nother story wecould talk about.
But this is a woman who waswell educated during a time when.
Think about this.
This is only 50 years afteremancipation, just 50 years after
the end of slavery.
She graduated from CornellUniversity and then went on to get
(15:51):
her master's as well.
And then when she became theliterary editor of the Crisis magazine,
she was brought there by Web.
We'll talk a little bit about why.
But he put her in the position.
Is that Kwame?
Hi, Kwame.
(16:12):
He put her in the position ofliterary editor.
And so she decided to turn itinto something.
Something for real.
And so she started going outand discovering people, meeting people
and finding people.
And she found Countee Cullenwhen he was 16 years old.
(16:35):
She found Langston Hughes whenhe was 17 years old.
I have pictures sometimes thatI use and show, and you have not
seen these men so young.
She found Nella Larson whenNella had just gotten married, just
started working at the library.
All of these people that youknow, as fully developed artists,
(16:58):
she found them before they hada career, and they have careers because
of Jessie Redmond Fawcett.
So it's important for us tostart with all of her accolades and
to acknowledge who she isindependently, because now we'll
get into a little bit of the mess.
Yeah, a little bit of the mess.
(17:20):
And that's what people,everybody on Instagram is calling.
They say, ooh, this book's messy.
Ooh, this good.
And I was like, I did notwrite a messy book.
I didn't.
You did.
I did.
I didn't.
Look, it ain't my fault.
This was on them.
So what mess are you speakingabout specifically?
Well, there was a gentlemanthat you mentioned earlier, W.E.B.
(17:44):
dubois.
And I'm curious, curious abouttheir relationship and how she came
to have the role as literary editor.
Yes.
So she met him.
So this was very interesting.
In 1903, her father passed away.
Her father passed away January3, 1903.
(18:06):
And she was very close to himbecause he had seven children.
Five of them had died, allduring childbirth and all during
different points in their thing.
And she was the youngest, andshe was alive, and they were very
close.
And so she had watched hersiblings die and everything, and
now her father's gone.
And three years before the endof that same.
(18:30):
Three days before the end ofthat same year, she contacted W.E.B.
du Bois because she had justfinished reading his book, the Souls
of Black Folk.
And she finished reading hisbook, and she loved it.
And she just wanted to reachout to him and to say, you know,
my father was trying to teachme some of these lessons, and I learned
(18:52):
him through you, through this book.
And it's wonderful.
So thank you.
And he responded and they became.
And I said on npr, I use thisterm like pen pals, because think
about this.
This was 1903, so they weren'ton the phone, they weren't hopping
in Ubers.
So most of the time they wouldjust try on paper letters.
(19:17):
And so for 10 years, he washer mentor.
For 10 years, he guided her,told her to go get her master's,
he told her to go to Paris tostudy languages.
He really helped.
He helped her to get jobs atFisk University, where he had graduated.
So he was a mentor to her.
(19:38):
And then in 1914, they met,and she was this young, nice looking
woman, and he was this older,married man.
And one of the things that Iask people to do when reading this
book is to read it with 20thcentury eyes.
(19:58):
Do you know what I mean by that?
100 years ago.
Think about this woman whodidn't even have the right to vote.
Think about this woman whocouldn't have gotten an apartment
by herself because womencouldn't even have their name on
a lease.
Think about this woman who hadno bank account or financial records.
(20:19):
Wives didn't leave theirhusbands because you broke up with
Your husband, you had to goback home to your parents.
She couldn't even get a leaseor anything.
So Jessie was a woman ahead ofher time because she had a career.
Women didn't have careers.
And she wanted a career.
And so she was a woman whowanted a career.
(20:40):
And she never saw how shecould have be married and have a
career.
So she was like, okay, I don'twanna marry you.
She certainly didn't wannamarry Will.
Cause she know he would cheat.
So she, you know, shecertainly didn't want him.
She wanted a career.
And then they had this relationship.
And it's not my fault they hada relationship.
(21:02):
I did try to write the bookwithout it.
I considered that.
Well, so can you share moreabout the letters and the language
that they were using with eachother and how you were able to read
between the lines that therewas more there?
Yes.
So I, there are a lot of, Ithink the best source of information
that you can use in writinghistorical fiction are letters, are
(21:27):
the personal letters.
Which is why I've told mydaughter that before I check out
of here, everything better golike I don't want no letters.
And so my daughter says, buteverything is like in the icloud
now.
I'm like, you better figure itout because you're not getting nothing
until everything is gone.
Because I feel like it's intrusive.
(21:49):
I've read these letters andwhen he was writing my dearest Jesse
and you know, nobody sayswe're having an affair.
They just say things like Isaid outside your home last night
and looked into the window andwished I could come.
You know, that kind of thing.
That's the kind of thing thatyou don't write to your best friend
or to a co worker.
(22:09):
But where I really found out.
Oh, okay.
Well maybe.
Or maybe you do 21st century letters.
Yes.
This is a whole nother book.
Those are the kinds of books Iused to write.
But this where I found outmostly about their affair was through
the web biography written byDavid Lewis.
(22:34):
And it was a Pulitzer Prizewinning book where he talked about
all the women that WEB had.
But he made a distinctionbetween Jesse and all the other women.
(22:55):
He like pulled her out of theparagraph almost.
And then he said that theywere star crossed lovers.
That's very specific, isn't it?
Star crossed lovers.
Do you remember where youheard that?
In high school with Romeo and Juliet.
That's the only time I've everheard that.
And then he said, so I gotwhat that was.
(23:15):
So I knew how to build aRelationship with that.
And then he said they had aparallel marriage.
That part I didn't get.
I didn't get that part at all.
But I don't know if youremember, at my launch, Abby Phillips
was interviewing me.
And Abby said she knew exactlywhat a parallel marriage meant because
(23:35):
she said they had a decadelong affair.
She was like, that's a marriage.
By the time you're there.
That long.
That's a marriage.
So that's what she thinks it meant.
I had no idea.
So that's what was happening.
And that's why I knew they hadan affair.
I would have never writtenthat they had an affair unless I
(23:57):
was absolutely sure, becausethat changes the character of someone
and changes everything.
When I said I tried to leavethat part out, I did, but then I
found myself with plot holeslike, why did she end up in New York?
Even the way she wrote herfirst novel, it was because of them.
(24:19):
Even the title of her firstnovel, there is confusion.
She wrote because of them.
Seriously.
It came from their relationship.
And then she wrote a poem.
Remember that poem?
And I won't take it away.
And the last line in thatpoem, if I had.
And that was one of her mostwell known poems.
And if I had written that poemin there and not had the affair,
(24:42):
people would have said,victoria's just going to leave that
there and not explain whatthat means.
You'll know exactly what I'mtalking about when you get to that
part.
So there were plot holes.
And even when I was writingcontemporary fiction, I always tried
to tell the truth.
I always tried to tell thetruth of the characters.
(25:05):
And so here we had real people.
I couldn't tell the story andnot tell the truth.
And speaking of the realpeople that we meet throughout the
book, the way that you're ableto breathe life into each of the
characters is very vivid.
And it's like we'retransported into the Harlem Renaissance.
(25:28):
And so I wanted to know if youcan share a little bit about, like,
Langston Hughes and CounteeCullen in terms of their understanding
of blackness during that timeand how you really, like, get us
to see that some of thechallenges that we're facing today
are.
What they were really the same.
(25:48):
So I did.
That was the best part ofwriting this book.
Somebody said that HarlemRhapsody feels like a black family
reunion of all of theseauthors and everything that come
to life.
I wasn't thinking about thefact that I was bringing all of these
people to life because thefocus to me was for Jessie.
But what was so great abouther, because she was meeting these
(26:08):
people very young.
So they wanted to be writers.
They didn't know how to write.
So not only was she teachingthem, but she was helping to guide
them through life.
And so Langston, I think, hadsome of the biggest challenges because
he went to New York and hewent as a student at Columbia University.
And when he got there, theyrealized he was black and wouldn't
(26:31):
allow him to be in the dormitory.
And so then he had no place tosleep, no place to go.
He ended up at the ymca.
And Columbia University justrecently apologized to him, made
it a public apology to himabout that.
So you're like, it's too late now.
(26:52):
But I kind of thought that wasspecial, that they recognized all
the things that they had donewrong at that time, because professors
wouldn't meet with him, and hewas really miserable there.
But Jesse helped to guide himthrough the year that he stayed.
So that was one of his challenges.
One of her other authors, JeanToomer, had been a student of hers
(27:16):
here in Washington, D.C.
oh, I forgot to mention.
She taught at Dunbar High School.
And so that's where she wasone of the top teachers there.
And he was a student there.
His name was Eugene Pinchbackat the time.
So when he decided to write,he decided to change his name.
I think that was a good idea.
And so he became Gene Toomer.
(27:37):
Gene Toomer did not want to beknown as a black author.
I mean, like, really, he wasreally upset about it.
He said that he had more whitein him than black.
And he said, I mean, he did, though.
And he said he didn't writethe book with his five black fingers,
(27:58):
and he didn't write the bookwith the left side of just the white
part of his brain.
So why couldn't he be known asan American writer?
And that actually cost him.
But she helped him navigatethrough all of that.
She helped Nella Larsonnavigate through feelings of self
esteem and not feeling up tothe Harlem elite.
(28:21):
Because this is the talented10th we're talking about.
Because think about it.
50 years after slavery, thesewere college educated children, young
people.
They all had their issues thatwe're facing today.
Jessie was the one who notonly edited them and made sure they
(28:43):
became writers, she helpedthem navigate through life.
And with each of the writers,we do see a lot of poetry and thinking
about the Harlem Renaissance.
Like we think about music andjazz, and in some ways, the music
can be poetry.
And so I wanted to know yourthoughts on what do you think it
was that the writers weregravitating so much towards poetry
(29:06):
in the way that they couldconvey their feelings during the
time.
Yeah.
Cause that's where they all started.
But they all ended up writing novels.
So that's what I foundfascinating, that they were like,
I can't write poetry.
I need 400 pages to tell my story.
But I found it fascinatingthat they could write poetry and
then they could write a noveland they could go back and forth.
(29:27):
And so Jesse as well.
So I think poetry was the wayfor them to get started as writers
and they could do it in ashorter fashion.
And Jesse really encouragedthem to be black, to tell the truth
of their stories of living asyoung black people in America, that
(29:50):
still wasn't accepting them.
Because while this great thingwas happening in Harlem, and it was
called the New Negro movement,at the time, we call it the Harlem
Renaissance, they were stilllynching every black man they could
find in the South.
You know, they were still black.
Women couldn't get jobs.
Nobody could vote.
So that was still happeningwhile there was this black pride
(30:15):
rising in Harlem.
And it's interesting with whatyou were just talking about.
So we have the right to vote.
Some are passing, and thenothers are very proud in their blackness.
And we can almost have yourbooks, your historical fiction books
in conversation with oneanother where you.
Right, That's a good point.
(30:35):
I told you.
Yeah.
Because I wrote the PersonalLibrarian and the first lady.
Anybody read the Personal Librarian?
So.
Ok.
Thank you.
And so, yeah, I guess thepersonal librarian, because it was
about the same time she couldbe in conversation with Jessie, and
Jesse would be like, girl, you black.
Come on, just be black.
And Belle would say, no,because I have a better life than
(30:58):
you.
You can't go to the restaurantacross the street.
I can.
So that would be interesting.
It would.
But then we also have MaryMcLeod Bethune, and she would just
take over.
She would take over the twowomen and say, look, you all follow
me.
You don't need to ask no questions.
Just follow me and I'll get you.
Right.
But there would be no passing.
(31:20):
No.
Yeah.
No, Mary.
No.
Mary was like, we black, andwe gonna.
We're proud to be black.
That's right.
Yes.
And another question.
So now, as you think aboutHarlem Rhapsody, all that it has
accomplished, and havingJesse's name out there, have you
started thinking about otherwomen whose stories we may not know
(31:43):
that you want to bring to life?
Yes.
So I just finished my thirdnovel with Marie.
So we just finished, and wecan't say too much about it, but
we tell everybody that it'sabout a black woman and a white woman
and the mob.
That's all we can say about that.
And it's based on.
(32:03):
All of this is true stories.
All of these are black womenwho've been hidden in history.
And so then I'm thinking aboutsome of my what I can do for my next
solo.
And I just discovered.
I don't know if it's a bigstory there, but have you all heard
of Sag Harbor?
Two black women.
(32:23):
Two sisters started that.
Oh, you know about that?
Two sisters.
See that famous beach?
It belongs to us.
So I do.
I want to find these kinds ofstories, and I think they're especially
important now, reallyimportant now, as they try to ban
(32:46):
everything.
I believe that a historyuntold is a history erased.
So what I've got to do is gofind the stories so that they won't
be erased.
Because if I hadn't foundJessie, who knows when someone would
have told her story.
And if no one ever did, shewould have been totally erased.
(33:07):
So now I feel like it's my jobto find the untold stories.
I do know that we're going tobe up against something because I
saw some authors today talkingabout the Department of Defense,
and all kinds of people noware coming after us.
And books are being banned ata faster rate.
So I would expect some of my books.
(33:29):
I know my book Stand you'dground is banned in some parts of
Florida, but go ahead and ban me.
I'll just write faster.
I'll just write faster.
All right, so we're going toopen it up to audience questions.
And this is my favorite part.
(33:49):
So if y'all don't start askingquestions, I'm gonna, like, call
on you.
Actually, if you have aquestion, can you line up over here?
We'll open up for a few questions.
You have a question?
Don't be scared.
Come over here and line upwith me.
Is it not?
Can you guys hear me a little bit?
Okay, you're first.
Hello.
(34:10):
Hi.
How are you?
Sarar Good.
See how these Deltas we represent?
So how do you find these women?
Yeah.
And, you know, it'sinteresting because how I found Jesse,
I always say, Jesse found me.
(34:30):
I didn't go looking for Jessie.
I said, okay, I'm going tohave to write this book, and I'm
going to have to spend twoyears with this person because it
takes me much longer to writethese books than it took me to write
Jasmine.
And so I said, what do I wantto write about?
And I decided I'd Want towrite about a writer.
And I was thinking, oh, New York.
I'm from New York, and Ireally like the 1920s.
(34:52):
So I found the Harlem Renaissance.
Like, I kind of bumped intothe Harlem Renaissance that way.
And I said, that's really kindof cool.
Let me go find some women ofthe Harlem Renaissance.
And I was just doing surfaceresearch, meaning don't.
Don't trust the Internet.
Everything in Wikipedia is wrong.
So seriously.
So, yeah.
(35:12):
Cause it's just regular peoplemaking up lies.
It was like fiction.
And so I was googling, tryingto find out.
Women of the HarlemRenaissance saw nothing.
Everything was all about the men.
Sometimes Nella Larson wouldcome up, or Zora Neale Hurston.
And then something came upwhen I said, the women of the Harlem
Renaissance.
(35:32):
I heard.
I saw a podcast called Harlemon My Mind by Tremaine Lee.
And so I went and listened to them.
They were all good.
The third episode was aboutthis woman named Jessie Redmond Fawcett.
And it was just 30 minutes,but I was fascinated because they
said she discovered these authors.
And I was like, well, how doyou discover Langston?
(35:54):
I know Langston, but I don'tknow you.
And that's how I found her.
So I always say she found me,because I didn't go looking for Jessie.
I went looking for the Harlem Renaissance.
And I just happened to bereading something about black beaches,
historically black beaches.
And I saw this thing about Sagharbor and these two women, two sisters.
(36:17):
And I was like, why don't Iknow that?
So whenever I say to myself,why don't I know that?
I know that y'all don't know that.
And then that's what I want towrite about.
Hi.
First, I want to say thank youfor writing this book.
So I'm a fan of the Harlem Renaissance.
Oh.
So my first question is, whatpart of New York are you from?
(36:39):
And then my second question iswith the.
I guess, the black elite ofthat time.
Like, how does that fit into.
That's around, like, you got,what, the Great Depression, Right.
Also that's going on.
So, like, the elite, what isthat based off of?
What is the talented 10?
Are you talking about that?
Yes.
(37:00):
Yes.
So I'm from Queens, and Ialways tell people I got there before
the rappers.
So I'm kind of aging myself.
But, you know, Web believed inthe talented 10.
And what that was was, thinkabout it.
50 years after slavery, hefelt that only about 10% of the black
(37:22):
race would be able to go tocollege, and it was going to have
to Be the college educatedblack people to lead the 90%.
So that's where you got thatblack elitism from.
And the talented 10th.
And some people say that'sstill around today.
(37:42):
You know, people say thatespecially black people who go to
HBCUs, they think they'rebetter than everybody.
We do, but.
We do.
It's really bad.
We do, but, you know, they'restill around.
We do.
I don't know what it is, butthink about it.
For four years, we had people,all black people, telling us we were
(38:03):
excellent.
That's why I think everyperson needs to go to an hbcu, because
for four years, you're gonnahave somebody telling you you're
excellent the whole time.
So that is still around, isyour question?
Yeah, I guess I'm kind ofstruggling with the, like, the lynchings
(38:23):
and the like.
Do they send money back down South?
Like, how does that.
Because when I think of elite,I'm thinking of that more of like,
you have money, you have amiddle class.
Like, what does that look like?
And then what did that looklike in the 1920s?
Yes.
And then you have the.
Yeah, the lynchings that are happening.
Yeah, that's what was so weird.
(38:45):
Like, W.E.B.
du Bois was the first blackman to get his PhD from Harvard,
yet he couldn't go into most restaurants.
Think about that.
Yeah, right, right.
I guess that's kind of thestruggle, like in my head.
Yeah, the head.
That was their life.
That was in my book first ladies.
(39:06):
Mary McLeod Bethune used tohave to ride in a colored car to
go from Florida to D.C.
to see the President.
She was going to see thePresident of the United States, but
she had to ride in the colored car.
So they had a life.
See, we have this life that wehave forgotten the way it was for
(39:27):
them.
I mean, think about that.
They had money, but they stillwere black.
And they still couldn't gointo a restaurant.
They still couldn't go into a store.
They still had to switch tothe colored car.
When they got to Washington, D.C.
they still had to do that.
That didn't change.
You could be elite.
You were still black.
(39:51):
I don't know if I answeredyour question.
Her stepmother was Jewish.
So that's an interesting point.
Let me talk a little bit aboutyou coming over about her stepmother.
So I wondered why herstepmother, who was a widow, so her
father was a widower withseven children.
That's a black man.
(40:13):
Then this white Jewish womanwas a widow with three children.
So I kept wondering, why inthe world would a white woman marry
A black man with.
They got a baseball team nowwith all those kids.
But why would you marry ablack man Right at the rise of Jim
(40:35):
Crow, all of the stuff thatyou were just describing.
And I couldn't start the bookuntil I knew that, because her mother
was going to be a big part of it.
And I was like, why would shemarry this?
We're talking about the late1800s when they got married.
And it took me three weeks.
I was talking to my agent.
We were like, well, maybeJewish and black people were treated
(40:55):
the same.
It was crazy.
And then something made me goto the census.
After about three weeks, Iwent to the census.
Her first husband was black.
She just was gonna marry blackpeople because she was an integrationist.
Have you ever heard that term?
I had never heard that term.
After abolitionists, then,after slavery ended, they became
(41:18):
integrationists.
They believed in the fullintegration of the races for equality.
They felt that was the onlyway to get equality.
So Bella Huff, that was hername, she was gonna integrate the
country by herself.
Cause she had three childrenwith this black man, and she was
gonna have three children withthat black man.
If she had married again, shewould have had three children with
(41:39):
him.
So, yeah.
So she was a Jewish woman,which plays an important part in
Jessie's being raised and howshe was raised.
Hi.
Hi, everybody.
So it wasn't a question.
I wanted to respond to whatshe was saying, because I'm from
Washington, D.C.
born and raised.
My great grandmother was bornin Washington, D.C.
(42:01):
in 1906.
So she, you know, would tellus stories about, you know, Washington,
D.C.
is a segregated.
Yeah, still is.
Right.
And so my brother and I werejust having this conversation the
other day, and we were talking about.
I said, you know, when you'rewhite, when you're rich white, you
live here.
When you're poor white, youlive here.
You know, they separate.
(42:22):
But when you're black, like inthe Lee Joy park area in Washington,
D.C.
or the Shaw area inWashington, D.C.
the rich black, the poorblack, the working class black, all
of the black people livedtogether because they couldn't live
anyplace else.
And so that's kind of, youknow, to what she was talking about.
(42:43):
You know, the things that wehad to endure that maybe.
Of course they didn't becausethey had a bigger stress.
So.
Yeah, well, they had freedom.
They could live any way theywanted to.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, or marry two black men.
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
I couldn't believe it.
I spent all that time tryingto figure out, why in the world would
(43:03):
she Marry the.
A black man.
That's.
Cause that's what she did.
Hi.
So I'm a Brooklyn girl.
Brooklyn and the house.
And my question is, I guessNew York related.
How much of a character is NewYork in the book?
That is one of the things thatI'm proud.
I'm very proud of, is peoplesay they feel like they are in Harlem
(43:24):
when they read this book.
I spent five weeks in Harlemto write the book.
And it's really interesting.
I was telling somebody todaythat it's 100 years later.
So of course, it's not thesame, but some of the buildings are
still there.
The church was still there.
The building where she livedwas still there.
(43:46):
But Harlem, the streets ofHarlem, pulse, they have an energy
by themselves, and it's still there.
And so I stayed in Harlem, andI did all of my research at the Schomburg,
which was the library of theHarlem Renaissance.
It was called the 135th StreetLibrary that then.
(44:07):
And in fact, my second stop onmy tour, I got to sign at the Schomburg
Speak in Shine.
And that was crazy becausethey only let, like, real authors,
like, you know, people whowould write important books there.
And so they were.
They had to read the book.
They knew I had done myresearch there, and they had to read
the book.
And they were like, do wereally want this, you know, person
(44:30):
here?
And I was.
And so they said, well, whatabout another library?
I said, nope, Schomburger bust.
That's it.
And it was like, almost likethe last day before we were putting
out my tour out, that theysaid, okay, she could do it.
And that was like, one of thehighest honors of my career.
I couldn't believe.
And 250 people showed up in Harlem.
(44:52):
So that was cool.
That was really cool.
We have time for one more question.
One more.
People are like, maybe I'mgonna come to you.
I saw her hand up first.
And then we'll do this.
Your books are signed, butwe'll do a photo line.
If you want to take photos, wegot VIP treatment.
(45:12):
I'm coming over here.
Okay.
Ms.
Victoria, I have known yousince I was, like, 18.
I know she was gonna saysomething like that.
I could tell as soon as yousaid Ms.
Victoria.
So that's a.
When I first moved to DC, youmet me at a coffee shop because.
(45:33):
My mom knew you.
And so, yeah, I'll tell you why.
But obviously, you have sortof shifted in the genre in which
you're writing with or writing about.
You know, when you werevisiting my hometown the ladies loved
you, but you had much more,like, I think, church books, more
(45:55):
romance books.
What has shifted in yourwriting and your storytelling made
me want to do that.
Yeah.
So it's really interestingbecause I've never in my life written
romance.
Like, but people thought mybooks were romance, but I don't read
romance.
I've never in my life written romance.
But people thought that.
And I didn't even know I waswriting Christian fiction.
(46:16):
Like, I wrote.
When I wrote Temptation, Ijust wrote a book.
And then when we were trying.
When my agent was trying tosell it, she tried to sell it to
mainstream publishers.
And they were like, oh, it hastoo much God in it.
You know?
And so she said, well, we'llgo to the Christian people.
Cause that'll be better.
And it was worse.
Cause they didn't like thetitle Temptation.
(46:37):
I was like, really?
Okay, let's change.
I want it to be published so bad.
They could have changed it toCrossing the River Jordan.
I didn't care.
But then they read the first50 pages, and they were talking about
their sex in this book.
And I was like, okay, but see,Black Christians have sex.
But I couldn't get publishedwith a Christian.
So it took two years.
(46:58):
It took a long time.
But I wasn't writing to any genre.
This is the first time in mylife that I've really written to
a genre.
It's very interesting, right?
And one of the best reviews Iever got was for the Personal Librarian.
And the reviewer said thatMarie, my co author, wrote about
(47:19):
versatile women in her past.
And that Victoria ChristopherMurray is the most versatile writer
that he had ever known.
That she could really write anything.
So it wasn't that I had a shift.
I just write what's in my heart.
When I was called and asked towrite the Personal Librarian with
the co author, I said, sure.
(47:40):
Something new, something different.
I wasn't thinking abouthistorical fiction.
The story sounded great, butit wasn't until I wrote it that I
realized how importanthistorical fiction was.
I think of all the genres outthere, and especially now in today's
times, this is the mostimportant genre to write in.
(48:02):
So I didn't feel like I've shifted.
But if I've shifted, I'm staying.
You don't have to worry aboutno more shifts.
I'm gonna find every blackwoman y'all ain't never heard of.
Yes, everyone.
And in 20 years, you gonnaknow 20 new black people.
And you gonna tell everybodyfor me.
(48:24):
So absolutely give it up forVictoria Christopher Murray.
Thank you.
So can I say one more thing.
Of course.
This is great.
So thank you everyone forcoming out.
One thing people often ask meone of the things I noticed, and
I'm sorry you didn't get yourquestion, but people often ask me,
what can they do to help a writer?
(48:46):
And black writers really needyour help.
But all of us need your help.
And to me, I think there arethree things you can do.
The first thing is, ElonHarris told me the only way he built
up his following was by havingeverybody just tell five people.
(49:09):
Just five people.
Word of mouth spreads any book.
And so if you can just tellfive people if you enjoy Harlem Rhapsody,
that would help so much.
The second thing that I justlearned now that's so important and
you, I don't know if you knewis reviews.
(49:30):
I didn't know that.
And writing a review canchange an author's career.
It changes the algorithm.
So it doesn't matter if you dothe review on Amazon or Goodreads,
they'll connect.
But if you can write a reviewfor any author, that one review is
going to go a long way.
(49:50):
And the third thing is thebeginning of the book sales.
The first month is soimportant because it's like the movies.
If people are going to see themovies, they keep it in the theaters.
The same thing will happen.
And so if you can beambassadors for us and support the
(50:13):
black independent bookstores,because those are the ones who are
hand selling out books.
Those are the ones who knowthe authors and they could say, oh,
I saw Victoria yesterday.
If you can do that and tellpeople they can do that and you can
buy their books online.
Like, if you don't think youlive close enough, they.
(50:35):
They do have online sales.
So if you could be myambassadors, I would greatly, greatly
appreciate it.
But thank you for coming outtonight because it's kind of cold,
kind of cold out there.
Thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you.
And thank you, Morgan.
I asked Morgan to do this for me.
She wasn't she great.
Thank you.
(50:56):
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