Celebrating Malcolm X: Insights from Dr. Ibram Kendi

Dr. Ibram Kendi's visit to MahoganyBooks marks a pivotal moment in the discourse surrounding the legacy of Malcolm X, especially through the lens of young audiences. During this author talk, Kendi introduces his new work, *Malcolm Lives!: The Official Biography of Malcolm X for Young Readers*, emphasizing the importance of conveying Malcolm's message of fearlessness and resilience to the younger generation. In a dialogue driven by esteemed journalist Joy-Ann Reid, Kendi articulates his motivation for writing this biography, particularly in light of Malcolm's centennial birthday and the contemporary societal challenges that echo the struggles Malcolm addressed during his lifetime. Kendi's narrative not only recounts Malcolm's life but also seeks to inspire young readers to engage with history and understand their own identities in relation to it.

Throughout the discussion, Kendi addresses the common misconceptions surrounding Malcolm X, portraying him as a humanitarian rather than a divisive figure. He challenges the narratives that often simplify Malcolm's ideology, arguing that his views evolved to encompass a broader understanding of human rights that transcended racial boundaries. This profound insight is crucial for young readers who may encounter a skewed portrayal of Malcolm in traditional educational contexts. Moreover, Kendi's interaction with Reid serves to deepen the engagement, as they explore not only Malcolm's historical significance but also the relevance of his lessons in today's sociopolitical climate. The conversation is a rich blend of historical analysis and personal reflection, making it accessible yet intellectually stimulating for both children and adults alike.

Takeaways:

• Dr. Ibram Kendi emphasizes the importance of Malcolm X's life and legacy, particularly in inspiring young readers to engage with their history.
• The conversation led by Joy-Ann Reid thoughtfully addresses how Malcolm X's story resonates with contemporary issues faced by young people today.
• Kendi articulates the necessity of understanding the complexities of Malcolm X's journey and his evolution as a humanitarian at the end of his life.
• The event highlights the vital role that independent bookstores like MahoganyBooks play in making literature accessible and fostering community engagement.
• As Kendi explains, the book serves to bridge generational gaps, ensuring that the lessons of Malcolm X are communicated effectively to today's youth.
• The discussion underscores the significance of empathy and kindness, as exemplified by Malcolm, in navigating the challenges of modern society.

Episode Transcript

(00:45):
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(01:26):
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Okay, how are you guys feeling?
Awesome.
Right? Y' all got three dayholiday weekend, everybody. If you're
supposed to be at work, putyour book right in front of your
face so you won't be recordedor anything. But anyway, thank you
all for coming. My name isRamonda Young, and my husband Derek
and I are the owners ofMahogany Books right here in the

(01:50):
area. Thank you, thank you,thank you, thank you. Just a little
bit about us. We've been inbusiness for 18 years now, and we
started 18 years ago in ourone bedroom apartment in Alexandria,
Virginia. And the wholepremise was, how do we make black
books accessible no matterwhere you live? I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma,

(02:10):
and I grew up maybe. Okay,Tulsa, okay. I never see Tulsa. I
grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma,maybe a mile from black Wall Street.
And when I tell you, I neverknew black Wall street was a mile
from my home because it wasnever taught in my schools. And if
you know anything about blackWall street, it was the epicenter

(02:31):
of black businesses andinnovation and entrepreneurship.
All of it was right there,such a history making momentum, but
never was taught. And so myhusband and I started talking about
what business will be open forme. We have different. He'll probably
share a little bit why hestarted it, his premise of why he

(02:51):
started it. But for me,because I did not have access to
those type of books, I didn'tgrow up around black bookstores.
I didn't get exposed to a lotof black books until I went to college,
to Langston University. So forme, when we talked about a business
idea, books for me was like, Inever want somebody else to not have
exposure to their historybecause somebody else said it was
not necessary. And so MahoganyBooks allowed us to do that by starting

(03:14):
online and we could ship booksall over the United States. We still
do 18 years later. And soThat's a little bit about us. Want
to share something too, husband?
Yes. So, again, hello,everyone. My name is Derek Young,
co owner of Mahogany Books. Iam from here, Southeast D.C. and.
And I am so excited becausethis is my home library. I grew up

(03:37):
not too far down the streetfrom here in Foresights, Maryland.
When I was going to SiouxlandHigh School. And when I young kids,
when I had to come and do myreports on the weekend, when I had
to study, this is the libraryI would come to. I would spend time
at studying, reading, reading.And it just feels always so good
when I get to come back hereand bring back events like this to

(04:01):
this library. Because this iswhat opening up a bookstore meant
for me. I'm used to being in acity where there's a lot of culture,
where there are blackbookstores, where things that you
can go to and learn aboutyourself. That's something that my
mother really poured into me.So when I was at school at the Bowie
State University.

(04:21):
Here we go, here we go. Herewe go, here we go. Both of these
HBCUs used to see us at home,but go ahead.
It became imperative at thattime, cause I worked at a black bookstore,
that this is what I wanted todo with my life. So I'm just always
excited to be able to do thesetype of events, to host these kind
of individuals, to have thesekind of conversations. Because it's

(04:41):
important for us to have aspace where we can talk about our
history, talk about ourculture, learn, celebrate ourselves,
and just continue to sharethat information with our families
and friends.
Yeah. And the last thing Iwant to add, we are here at the Austin
Hill Library. Give it up forthe librarians, people. Yes, yes,
yes, yes, yes. Tell you alittle quick story. I know y' all

(05:03):
did not come here to hearRamonda and Derek, but in the beginning,
when we started our business,I used to feel like the libraries
were our competition becausepeople could go there and get books
for free. So why shop andpurchase a book? And I was just very
ignorant on that topic. Andthen I thought about it. We both
want people to have access tobooks and whether. And money should
not be an obstacle for you tohave access to our history, to content

(05:24):
and information. And so thathad a button had to switch on in
my head to say, we're not incompetition. So to be here tonight,
there's three amazing library.I'm putting them on the spot. Three
amazing libraries in the backhere. The libraries actually close
on Friday nights. And so theseamazing librarians said we're going
to stay open so you guys canhave events here like this. So let's
please give it up for thelibrarians. Yes. Yeah. So let's get

(05:50):
into it because we're here tolearn about Malcolm X and I'm excited
that this is the first fulllength, I feel, biography that really
encapsulates his life in sucha beautiful way for young people,
for older people too, whodon't know a lot of things about
Malcolm X. This is the NewYork Times best selling book. Yes.
Let's give it up for that.
Yes.
What? That is huge in thistime and in this age to have a book

(06:15):
that hits the New York Timesespecially with this content, especially
I'm not going to get into allthe things why. But yes, 100th birthday
was just a few days ago onMonday, I believe. It does believe
it. So anyway, let's get intoit. I'm going to read our conversation
host who is somebody very dearto me. Dear to us, I'm always saying
me, but very dear to us. Andher name is Ms. Joy Ann Reed. She

(06:38):
is also a New York Timesbestselling author, political commentator
and an analyst with 30 plusyears in the media business. Give
it up for 30 years, please.Yes, absolutely. She was the host
of the two time NAACP awardwinning and Emmy nominated nightly
analysis program the Readouton msnbc and prior to that she hosted

(07:00):
the weekend program AM Joy.She has. Let me see here, let me
see. Also, which was also aweekend program and a daily news
show. You guys, please help mewelcome the amazing Joy Ann Reid
tonight.

(07:29):
All right. Oh, hey, hey, hey,hey, hey, hey. Cut that out. Cut
that out. Cut that out. Cut itout. Cut it out, cut it out. So.
And the gentleman you are hereto hear from to celebrate this book,
this incredible work, Dr.Ibram X Kendi is a National Book

(07:49):
Award winning authority ofbooks for adults and children, including
New York Times bestsellerslike Stamp from the Beginning, Stamp
for Kids, how to Raise an AntiRacist and goodnight racism. Dr.
Kendi is the Andrew W. Mellonprofessor in Humanities at Boston

(08:10):
University and the director ofthe BU center for Anti Racist Research.
Please welcome put your handstogether for Ms. Dr. Ibram Kendi.
Yes.

(08:34):
We already got a hug in theback so I was like, let me just go
ahead and reproduce it. Well,hello everyone. It's always great
to be in the library. This isreproducing my childhood. This is
literally me as a kid justhanging out in the library. And so
it is a thing I love to do. SoI Want to thank this wonderful library
for having us. I want toobviously thank Mahogany Books. Give
him a round of applause.Mahogany Books, one of the best in

(08:54):
the business. And of course,Dr. Reverend Dr. Ibram X Kendi. Hello,
Ibram. I can call him Ibram.Cause he my friend. Well, thank you
for writing this book. Firstof all, from all the young people.
Last year I gave your stampsfrom the beginning visual book as
a gift. I love giving books asgifts. And so now I've got another

(09:17):
book gift that I can give theyoung people that are in my life.
Let's talk about this. MalcolmLives. Why did you feel that you
needed to write a book aboutMalcolm X, whose hundredth birthday
would be this year? Why didyou feel you need to write a book
about him for young readers?
Well, first, good evening, everyone.
Good evening.
Thank you for coming out thisevening. I'm really excited and honor

(09:42):
to be here. I've been touring,discussing this book. And the last.
We saved the last and finalstop for this event. And I'm so excited
to be in conversation withJoy, of course, admire her work.
She is literally one of thevoices of black America. And to be

(10:06):
in conversation with and to bein conversation with her about one
of the other voices of blackAmerica and Malcolm, you know, is
truly, truly an honor. And sothe reason that I wanted to do this
book not only, of course, wasMalcolm's 100th approaching, but

(10:28):
I also had the opportunity topartner with the Malcolm X estate
on this book. But I alsothought in this moment, in a time
in which there's prettyawesome power that's manufacturing
fear that's causing us to sortof fear being disappeared or fear

(10:51):
losing our jobs or fear notgetting that or keeping that funding
or even fear for our lives. Ithink it's important for us to return
to, as young people and evenadults, somebody in American history
who was fearless. And ofcourse, that was Malcolm X. Yeah,

(11:11):
absolutely.
There's a quote right at thetop of the book. There's on page
three, you don't even have toget far to get this amazing quote.
And that you talk about thefact that history is boring when
it's dead, which I think is agreat quote. But you quote Malcolm
X when he said, I'm for truthno matter who tells it. I'm for justice

(11:32):
no matter who it is for oragainst. I'm a human being first
and foremost. And as such, I'mfor whoever. Bless you. And whatever
benefits humanity as a whole.That isn't the way that I think we
are generally Taught MalcolmX. At least we were taught Malcolm
X before some of us got thechance to read the autobiography
of Malcolm X ourselves. Wewere sort of taught about him as

(11:52):
this sort of villain, thissort of, you know, sort of scary
figure. But he was ahumanitarian. And you lead with that
quote. Why did you decide todo that?
Well, I do think it'simportant for us to lead with where
someone arrived. Right, sothis is where he arrived ideologically

(12:13):
before he was murdered. And hearrived as a person who was committed
to human rights for everyone,but especially for black people.
He arrived at a place in whichhe thought civil rights activists
needed to elevate theirstruggle from civil rights to human

(12:34):
rights. And he would saythings like, you don't take your
case to the criminal framingthe US government as the criminal.
You take your criminal tocourt. And that court was the international
court or more specifically theUnited Nations. And of course, he
wanted. He was trying toleverage an African nation to go

(12:59):
before the UN and charge theUnited States with violating the
human rights of AfricanAmericans. He literally wanted the
United States to emerge as, ina way, the pariah that South Africa
was emerging in the 1960s andto sort of recognize those similarities

(13:20):
between those two forms ofapartheid. And so fundamentally,
he thought and believed thatthe Human Rights Charter of the UN
could be a beacon for black liberation.
It's interesting that youmentioned South Africa and the United
States as an international. Ican't help myself. I'm sorry, I can't
change. I'm too old. There isthis thing about history that it

(13:44):
rhymes, as my buddy RachelMaddow loves to say, right, that
you keep seeing thesereverberations of the past in the
present. And when you thinkabout now, having worked with the.
With the El Shabaz, the estateon this and really dug into Malcolm
X's life, what reverberationsdo you see beyond the fact that we

(14:04):
do feel like we're entering anew apartheid era in the United States,
that the United States isreflecting very directly South African
pre Mandela history andliterally bringing physically white
South Africans here in a claimthat there is this, you know, sort

(14:25):
of fictional genocide, youknow, this idea of this sort of fear
of white genocide, like thatfeels like it's resonant to me. Does
it to you?
Oh, without question. And Ithink the way in which that's resonant
is because keeps promotingthis notion that white people are

(14:46):
the primary victims of racism,that white people are facing this
sort of global genocide, thatthe job of the federal government
is to protect White peoplefrom those quote unquote hordes of
black and brown people who aretrying to harm them. And I think
the reason why that's resonantin Malcolm's time is because Malcolm,

(15:09):
even after he goes to Meccaand comes back recognizing that there's
nothing inherently evil aboutwhite people through Islam, and I
say through Islam becausewe're often taught that people hate
white people because of Islam.But Malcolm actually was freed of

(15:32):
that idea by Islam. They don'ttalk about that. But I mention that
because even after he cameback from Mecca, he was still framed
as a black supremacist. He wasstill framed as anti white. Just
as those of us who areengaging in anti racist work, those
of us who are fighting againstracism in this moment are framed

(15:55):
as anti white. So it's notthat we want equal opportunity for
everyone, it's that we'retrying to apparently take opportunities
away from white people. And ofcourse, that's used to manipulate
white people into opposingefforts that's actually going to
benefit them and supportingpresidents that are literally going
to take money from them.
And you know what'sinteresting about this idea of kind

(16:17):
of the sort of fear that onthe right wing they sort of try to
stoke in white Americansconstantly. And you think about Malcolm's
life, I mean, he's in Omaha,Nebraska, not the blackest place
in the world. He grew up in acommunity where he was pretty much
the only. His family were avery small minority. So it was the
reverse. He wasn't. His familywas in no power. And in fact, there's

(16:37):
a chapter here that I thinkyoung people. It's going to resonate
because this is somethingyoung people deal with. Bullies.
You title chapter six iscalled Bullies. Talk about that.
And Malcolm being as a youngman that faces something that so
many young people will be ableto relate to.
Yeah. So after Malcolm'sfamily is driven out of Omaha by
the Klan, they end up inMilwaukee, stay there for a while,

(16:58):
and end up in Lansing,Michigan, and buy some land and a
farmhouse in a predominantlywhite area of Lansing, actually an
all white area. And Malcolmand his siblings end up going to
school, and they're the onlyblack people in their whole school.
And so Malcolm is consistentlyand constantly picked on him and

(17:19):
his brothers and sisters tothe point in which they literally
have to fight to fightregularly to maintain their dignity.
But they're not just picked onby their classmates, they're also
picked on by and bullied bythe curriculum. Malcolm is forced
to read books like LittleBlack Sambo in this school in Michigan

(17:40):
in the 1930s. His historyteacher, when he was in middle school,
reads the single blackparagraph, I should say the single
paragraph about black peoplein the history book, which essentially
was a paragraph that statedthat black people were civilized.
And then slavery ended andthen we reverted back to criminality.

(18:00):
And then after that, theteacher proceeded to mock black people
in class with Malcolm, theonly person there. So, you know,
it was constant for Malcolm asa young person.
The other thing that youexplore that I think a lot of people
leave behind, you know,there's an ADOS movement that is
trying to sort of turn AfricanAmericans and Caribbean Americans
against one another. Andwhenever one of those people, you

(18:21):
know, I get into it with them,I always say, well, then you can't
have Malcolm X. We get MalcolmX in the racial draft. If you're
saying the Caribbeans can'tcome because I have to go with the
Caribbeans too, talk aboutthat. Because not only is Malcolm
black in a white world, hisfamily are Caribbean Americans.
Yes, indeed. His mother wasborn in the Caribbean, in Grenada,

(18:44):
which is of course aboveVenezuela. And his mother also, when
she leaves the Caribbean, shedoesn't first go to the U.S. she
goes to Canada, Montreal,Canada. That's where she meets Malcolm's
father. And so Malcolmliterally is embodied the African
American and the blackimmigrant. And I think that's partly

(19:07):
why when he comes of agepolitically, he starts advocating
for the unity of black peoplefirst, the unity of black people
within the United States. Ofcourse, he would give speeches in
which he would say, they don'thang you because you're a Methodist
or because you're a Baptist orbecause you're a Muslim. They, they
hang you because you're black.And then he would of course, travel

(19:27):
to Africa and seek to forgerelationships between black people
in Africa and AfricanAmericans. And I think Malcolm X
would be incredibly criticalof the so called ADOS movement.
Yeah, absolutely. There's alsothe question of, you know, which
is a minority, I think, to alot of people outside of the black

(19:48):
community, but really notinternally because most African Americans
have Muslim family members orno Muslims. It's not like a big deal
within the black communitybecause, you know, I don't think
a lot of people realize thatat enslavement, you know, because
you did stamp from thebeginning that about a third of the
people who came over on thoseslave ships were Muslim. And most

(20:08):
African Americans are closeMuslim friends or have family members.
But talk about the idea ofMalcolm being a Muslim in a country
in which black folks aregenerally perceived as Christian.
Well, let me say this. I didan event in Lansing, Michigan, and

(20:28):
I did the event with aMichigan State professor who was
an historian of Islam in theUnited States. And he stated that
Malcolm X is the single mostprominent Muslim in American history.
You know, Bar. Well, thenMuhammad Ali more than Muhammad Ali.
Ooh, that was his friend, bythe way.

(20:48):
And so, I mean, but it'seither, you know, probably Malcolm
or Muhammad Ali. Two blackmen, right, and two people who are
members of the Nation ofIslam. And so I think that goes to
show that the criticality ofMalcolm, and what's also interesting
is it's likely the case thatthe city with the most black Muslims

(21:10):
is Philadelphia. And Malcolmhelped start the Nation of Islam
chapter or mosque inPhiladelphia in 1954. And I think
you can't really tell, ofcourse, Malcolm's story without,
of course, telling the storyof even Islam itself in the US And

(21:32):
I think that that's one of thethings I also tried to do in the
book, because young people inparticular, just like adults, we
don't learn about Islamic U.S.history. We don't learn about, for
instance, why would so manyblack Americans in the 1930s and
1940s and 1950s be attractedto Islam? And I think that that is

(21:58):
important sort of questionthat I, of course, sought to answer.
And Malcolm, of course, spenta lot of time outside of churches,
literally recruitingChristians, you know, to the Nation
of Islam.
I would that. One of thechapters that I really enjoy a lot
is this one. This is chapterseven. It's called A Vision. In the
picture, the man pictured hereis a gentleman named Marcus Garvey.

(22:20):
Jamaican? Yes. So those arethe JA people, the J A Posse. You
always hear them say, yes,they claim him very proudly. But
you know, Malcolm, they'reGarveyite. People talk about that
movement a little bit and howMalcolm intersects with that.
Well, first, I mentionedearlier that Malcolm's mother goes

(22:40):
to Montreal, Canada. Shefollows her uncle, who had went there
previously. And it is at aGarveyite meeting where she meets
Earl Little, Malcolm's father.And so they literally bond through
following the Universal NegroImprovement association, which, of

(23:03):
course was the unia, theorganization of Marcus Garvey. And
they end up going, of course,to Omaha to start a chapter in Omaha
of the unia. And that's theactivism there, is the reason why
the Klan ends up actuallyapproaching the house while Earl

(23:23):
is gone. And Louise Little isthere while she's pregnant with Malcolm.
And she stares down the Klanand so, so much of Malcolm's childhood
was, of course, being infusedwith the teachings and lessons of
Marcus Garvey. Indeed, Malcolmwas his father's, quote, unquote,

(23:44):
favorite child. And he wouldgo with his father to some Garveyite
meetings that his father woulddo, particularly around Michigan.
So he would watch his fatherspeak about Marcus Garvey, talk about
Africa for the Africans, talkabout black people needing to gain
control of their owncommunities, talk about Marcus Garvey

(24:05):
saying that he is equal to anywhite man and no black people should
look or imagine that they areinferior to any black person. That
was Malcolm's childhood.
And, you know, you talk aboutthe Africa for the Africans movement.
I mean, this is something thatresonates again today because some
of the conflict that we'reseeing in South Africa is that you
have 7% of the population thatare white, and they were people who

(24:27):
were colonizers. Theycolonized South Africa and wound
up gaining something like 70%of the arable land in South Africa
is owned by 7% of thepopulation who are white. And so
there is a lot of activism onthe continent that is saying that
there's an inequity not justin the enslavement of blacks in the
United States or in theCaribbean or in South Central America,

(24:49):
but also in Africa on thecontinent, where the indigenous people,
black people, in many cases,own almost nothing and have almost
no economic opportunity. So, Imean, as you're. I wonder, as you're
just pulling this booktogether and Tory, and talking about
it, how does that hit you?Because that question of whether

(25:10):
a government, a blackgovernment in South Africa, can do
a form of reparations and canuse a means that has been used on
black people here, eminentdomain, which has been used to take
land from black people andgive it to highways. It's been used
a lot in the United States.When you're thinking about that,

(25:31):
I don't know, how does thathit you on this tour?
Well, I know that Malcolmwould advocate for that. And frankly,
I think Malcolm, he was livingand traveling, particularly in Africa
in 1964, when these newlydecolonized nations were setting

(25:55):
up their political states, butthen still in many ways subjected
economically to their. To sortof their quote, unquote, mother sort
of countries. And what thatmeant is, okay, you can set up a
government, but we're stillgoing to own the minerals, we're
still going to own the diamondfields. You know, we're still going

(26:16):
to sort of own the factories.We're still going to own the land.
And then we will allow you tosay, you're free. But we all know
what's truly the case. And ofcourse, Malcolm was pushing back
against that. And also, Ithink he was thinking about the relationship
between what was happening inAfrica and what was happening in

(26:40):
the United States, where inthe United States there was this
continuous drive, of course,for black people to gain elected
office. But he was alsoencouraging black people, through
his lessons with the Nation ofIslam to, of course, gain economic
power. And he would say thingslike, anytime you have to depend
on your enemy for a job, youin bad shape.

(27:02):
Indeed. You also write, and Iwonder how you approached, because
this is a book for youngpeople. We know the young folks face
a lot of struggles, andbullying is one of them. And one
that their parents are dearlytrying to keep them away from are
drugs and crime. And how didyou approach writing about Malcolm's
troubled years, the years inwhich he did end up in prison, the

(27:22):
years in which he was usingdrugs? How did you approach that?
So it's interesting you saythat, because I thought about that.
I thought about how someparents, some teachers may not want
their young people toliterally learn about when Malcolm
was selling drugs, takingdrugs, stealing, you know, his law

(27:44):
breaking. And somehow, becauseI'm trying to think about this, you
know, this Americanperspective that if somehow we expose
a child to something, they'regoing to become that. I don't. I
don't know why we think that,but, you know, if your child has
a. Your child has a gayteacher, suddenly they become gay.
Like, it's just this. Thisweird American mischief.

(28:04):
It's part of the assignmentthey give in fourth period. What
are you talking about? Yes, begay by tomorrow. There'll be a quiz.
So I certainly thought aboutthat. But so what I tried to do is
I spent a lot of time talkingabout the conditions that Malcolm
was in and the emotionaleffects of those conditions. So to

(28:27):
give an example, the conditionof poverty, then leading to hunger,
then leading to, I'm going togo to this downtown store and take
an apple so I can eat. Or thecondition of just being angry because
you're being subjected topolice violence, or being angry because

(28:50):
your mother and father is notthere, and so you're like, I have
nothing to live for, so I'mjust going to do. And so I tried
to constantly sort of talkabout those larger conditions and
those larger emotional. Thoseemotional moments that Malcolm had,
and then in critical moments,even talk directly to readers to

(29:11):
make sure they understood whatMalcolm was potentially thinking
and Feeling so that they couldunderstand that he was doing those
things because he wasn'tnecessarily in his right space and
in his right mind. And ifthings were different, he would have
been doing things that were different.
There's also, you know,something that can be difficult to
write about is, you know, theinternal family dynamics and tragedies.

(29:35):
And Malcolm's mom is, I think,a fascinating person in history that
doesn't get a lot ofattention. But what was Malcolm's
relationship like with hismom, and how did that trajectory
go for him?
Well, let me say this. Malcolmrarely spoke about his mother in
public when he became a veryprominent minister. And I speculate

(29:58):
in the book that one of thereasons why he rarely spoke about
her was because he waspersonally ashamed. Not necessarily
about the fact that she was ina mental institution, but I think
he was ashamed by how he felthe contributed to that because there's
some parts in the book inwhich, for instance, his. His brother.

(30:19):
His older brother is out inBoston working, sending money home,
and he and another of hisbrothers are literally taking that
money, which then is drivingeven more strain onto his mother.
And, of course, he rememberedthose things. Right. And so I think
he, of course, in a way, asyoung people do. Right. Blamed himself.

(30:41):
And so he didn't really spendthat much time talking about her.
But I thought it was importantto share her story. And there's a
moment in the book, if youmay, that I'd like to please to share.
And this is the moment inwhich she ends up being basically

(31:02):
taken to. To a mentalinstitution. And I tried to. It is
a summation, frankly, aboutall the things that she is facing,
if I could find it.
By the way, I love thephotographs in the book. Yes, we

(31:26):
love a good photograph. Andthere are letters, correspondence.
You can see what thehandwriting looks like. It's actually
really fascinating.
Okay, so in 1938 months beforeshe and this is Luis Little went
out walking barefoot in thesnow, the nightmare happened. Welfare

(31:50):
officials took Malcolm, placedhim into foster care with the Gohanas
family, where he would eatdinner sometimes after school. Louise
resisted but couldn't stop it.The stress of her husband dying was
too much. The stress of havingno money was too much. The stress
of racist welfare officialswas too much. The stress of Malcolm

(32:14):
getting in trouble with thelaw was too much. The stress of Malcolm
being taken was too much. Thestress of having another mouth to
feed after 8th child arrivedwas too much. The stress of the father
of her eighth child leavingwas too much. It all became Too much
in 1938, a neighbor probablysaw Louise walking barefoot in the

(32:39):
snow with her child. Sheneeded help, but too few people had
truly helped since Earl died.That was why she was here, cold to
the cold around her becausethe racist world had been cold to
her.
It's difficult because wedon't talk about mental health often

(33:01):
at all in this country. We'revery bad at it, and in the black
community, even more so. It'sjust not something we talk about.
You're approaching this, and,you know, it's a young reader. Did
that give you pause of how to present.
Was really just about tryingto present it in language that young
readers could understand. Butfrankly, precisely because of what

(33:24):
you just said, that we don'thave these conversations with young
people. And young people arefacing their own mental health challenges
in this moment. Actually, lastI checked, there's this skyrocketing
number of black youth who arecommitting suicide. And there's like,
we're not even talking aboutthat. And frankly, of course, our

(33:46):
young people have friends,right, who are facing these challenges,
and it's hard to recognize itif they're not learning stories about
it. And so hopefully thisstory will give them a better sense
of what could potentially behappening to them or others.
Let's talk about Betty. Iparticularly love this because, I
mean, I just wrote a lovestory about somebody that deeply

(34:06):
admired Malcolm Medgar Eversand his wife. Let's talk about Betty.
How did.
Which was a great book.
Thank you. It did all right.Oh, by the way, did we mention that
this amazing book is on theNew York Times bestseller list? We
can give that an applause. Socongratulations on that. Yes. Talk
about how Betty and Malcolm met.

(34:28):
So Betty joins Malcolm'smosque in Harlem. Not long, actually,
after he arrives there, and hebecomes interested in her. And one
day I calls her up and asks,well, actually, I should say one

(34:50):
day I ask her to go with himto a museum in New York. But then
the day they're supposed togo, Malcolm gets cold feet and calls
her, and he's like, well, Imean, I just don't know. And maybe
we should go at another time.And she challenges him, and she's
like, you waited so long totell me? And I think he liked that.

(35:15):
And they ended up going to themuseum, of course, which was literally
their first date. And Iactually think that they spent quite
a bit of time potentially eventalking about racism, like, at that
museum. And I sort of narratemany of the racist exhibits that
literally were at that museumwhen they went. And I Suspect he

(35:41):
was taken by her brilliance.They also had a connection because
Betty was from Detroit. Youknow, of course, Malcolm was from
Lansing. Most of his siblingswere living in Detroit. And so they,
of course, fell in love andgot married. And Elijah Muhammad,
of course, was supportive.
There's so many letters in thebook that are reproduced. It's one

(36:04):
of my favorite things, sorry,in books, is to find, like, all the
little goodies, and you've gotall those. Can you talk about the
process of getting the lettersand you can see Betty's signature
and Malcolm's signature andtalk about that process.
Yes. So since we were able towork with the Malcolm X estate, we
decided pretty early on thatwe wanted to put some primary documents,

(36:25):
some letters. There's evensome notations from Malcolm's address
book from his notebook.There's a note of him learning to
write Arabic. There's also aletter of him writing to a woman
who he came to know in theearly 1960s. She was involved in

(36:47):
a pretty significant protestat the United nations after the assassination
of Patrice Lumumba, who wasthe first president of. Of the Congo.
Eventually, she's alienatedsomewhat from the United States,
goes to Accra, Ghana, becomesa part of a small expat community
there. When Malcolm comesthere in 1964, she's part of the

(37:09):
welcoming committee, bringshim around. She comes back to United
States, changes her last nameand becomes known as Maya Angelou.
And so there's a letter toMaya Angelou from Malcolm and Malcolm
lives.
There's so many goodies likethat in this book. Talk about my
favorite person of all time,besides my mom, Muhammad Ali. Absolutely.

(37:29):
Just. He is my favorite,greatest athlete of all time. Fight
me. Talk about that. Becauseanother thing that you're. And I
love, because this is foryoung readers. You know, friendship
is so important to youngpeople. They kind of build their
kind of identities in manyways around who their friends are
and what their friendshipslook like. Talk about that friendship.
And you have a chapter whichis called Betrayal. Talk about that.

(37:52):
Well, first, I would encourageeverybody to see. I think it's Regina's
movie, A Night in Miami.
So good.
And this is a movie for thoseof you aren't familiar. So when Muhammad
Ali fights, or he's known asCassius Clay, then when he fights,
I believe, Sonny Liston in theearly part of 1964, he invites Malcolm

(38:18):
X, but he also invites SamCooke and Jim Brown. And so the four
of them are literally in ahotel room, hanging out, talking.
And in Liberty City.
Yes, of all places. And so thefilm depicts sort of that moment,
or I should say that evening.But, you know, they became friends.

(38:39):
Muhammad Ali was largelyattracted to the Nation of Islam
because of Malcolm X. And he,of course, started coming to different
mosques and different evenbusinesses. And, you know, Malcolm
became almost like hisspiritual advisor. And the Nation

(39:03):
of Islam did not necessarilybelieve that Muhammad Ali was going
to win and beat Sonny Liston,but Malcolm X did. And Malcolm X,
at the time he had beensilenced from the Nation of Islam.
He was questioning whether hewould ever get back into the Nation
of Islam. He believed that ifMuhammad Ali won that fight, that

(39:26):
the Nation of Islam would wantMuhammad Ali to join the Nation.
And so he felt he had theopportunity to almost broker his
way back into the Nationthrough an alliance with Muhammad
Ali. But after Muhammad Aliwins, Elijah Muhammad steps in and
is able to get Muhammad Ali toside in a way with Elijah in the

(39:49):
dispute with him and MalcolmX. And so that's when Malcolm. It's
almost his last card to playto stay in the Nation of Islam. And
so literally the next day, hedecides to leave.
Yeah. Actually, you know, myfavorite fun fact about Malcolm X
is that he was friends withRed Fox and they were both called
Red. I actually love that.Like, people think of Red Fox as

(40:11):
being, like, super old, but hewas actually pretty young when he
played Sanford and Sanford andSon. And he literally was buddies
with. No fake news here. Right.
They worked at a fast foodjoint in Harlem together.
Yeah. No, it's a great. It's agreat fun fact. And then if you rethink
about Red Fox and Malcolm Xand put them together as buddies,
it's like my favorite thingever. How did you address. Well,

(40:33):
two things that I'm going tolet you all ask questions. How did
you address the breach fromElijah Muhammad and all of the things
Elijah Muhammad was into andup to in writing this book for this
audience?
Well, I think first, I thinkthere were two aspects of the breach.

(40:54):
There was the ideologicalaspect, which I think was easier
to write. So Malcolm wantedthe Nation of Islam to be engaged
in protest, to be a part ofthe civil rights movement. Elijah
was like, no, we're areligious organization. And I should
say there are three reasons.The second reason was over money.

(41:15):
And so the Nation of Islamwas. The central office was receiving
tithes from every singlemosque and every single member, as
well as receiving. Pretty muchevery time Malcolm went to speak
at a college and received anhonorarium, he would send it to the
central office. And so thecentral office was bringing Millions

(41:37):
of dollars. And over time,some of the leaders around Elijah,
and certainly Elijah himself,started spending that money in expensive
things. And Malcolm, ofcourse, hated that. So I tried to
narrate that. And I thinkyoung people can sort of understand
what it means to be corrupt orwhat it means to use money that's

(41:57):
really not yours. And ofcourse, Malcolm, those central leaders
were fearful of Elijah dyingand Malcolm taking over the Nation
of Islam. Elijah had a veryserious illness and that he would
then drive them all out. Sothat was one of the reasons why they
wanted to get Malcolm out ofthe nation. The reason why Elijah

(42:20):
wanted to get Malcolm out ofthe Nation, and certainly this was
something I had to sort ofnarrate is Elijah impregnated and
had six children with femalesecretaries who were teenagers. And
so I just stated it that sortof plainly. Of course, I didn't get
into the salacious details.And Malcolm knew and Elijah was worried

(42:44):
and really wanted to set anexample of Malcolm X to all the other
ministers by silencing him andultimately ordering the hit.
Yeah. And that. And thatbrings me. Well, before I get to
that, how did you deal withhis relate. There's all of these
kind of. And I think it is afake news. I think it's fake news.
It's something that peoplehave tried to separate Dr. King from

(43:06):
Malcolm X and make them out tobe enemies. How did you handle that?
Well, I tried to handle itthrough. Most of the book is written
in scenes, you know, scenesfrom Malcolm's life that really allow
us to. To have almost like afront row seat to what Malcolm was
seeing or even saying or evenpotentially thinking. And so of course,

(43:30):
I include the scene of whenMalcolm and Martin meet at the U.S.
capitol in March of 1964, notlong after Malcolm leaves the Nation
of Islam. Southernsegregationist or filibustering,
the Civil Rights act of 1964.And they're both sort of there for
that. And I use that to reallyshow their closeness. Right. Because

(43:54):
it's one thing to say asMalcolm did, we were both, you know,
we both were committed to theliberation of black people. Now,
we had different perspectiveson how to get there, but ultimately
we had similar sort of asimilar destination. I thought it

(44:14):
was better to sort of showtheir closeness through that scene.
And then, and now we get tothe, you know, the hardest thing
to write. I don't know if itwas for you, but I know for me, writing
the Medgar Evers assassinationpart was like the hardest part for
me to write because by thenyou've lived with these people and
like, you know them, andthey're like your friends, and now
you don't want to write it.And I like to remind people whenever

(44:34):
I talk about this era, Malcolmwas the second to be assassinated
after Medgar Evers. And then,of course, Dr. King. None of them
was as old as Kobe Bryant waswhen Kobe Bryant died. That's the
perspective that you need tothink about. Kobe Bryant was older
than all three of them when hedied, and he was young. So you're

(44:54):
talking about. You're doing awhole. This is a pretty thick book.
And he did a lot. And he wasonly 39 years old when he was killed.
How did you handle writingabout an assassination when you're
writing for a young audience?
Well, first, let me say, frommy understanding, Medgar is celebrating
100th.
He will be when he's coming.Cause he was only 37.
Oh, wow.
So he's got two more years.

(45:15):
Two more years. Oh, my gosh.And so I think, again, I try to narrate
the growing divisions betweenthe leadership of the Nation of Islam
or Elijah Muhammad or thepeople around Elijah Muhammad and

(45:35):
Malcolm X. And so I start thateven going all the way back to. I
have a chapter that's actuallyset in D.C. when Malcolm speaks at
Howard University in 1961 anddebates Bayard Rustin. And not long
after that speech, Elijah islike, you need to stop talking about
politics when you go tocolleges. Right. So I'm trying to

(45:58):
sort of build for young peoplewhy these two people fell out, both
the political reasons and thefinancial reasons, and certainly
even the details aroundElijah's illicit activity. But then
I also have to narrate in thefinal year, which makes it even more

(46:20):
complicated what's happeningbetween Malcolm and the U.S. government.
And specifically how, as Imentioned earlier, his efforts to
take the United States beforethe UN and really embarrass it around
the world. The US Wasn'tparticularly happy about that. So
I'm sort of. I tried to spenda lot of time before the last year

(46:44):
sort of sharing the details ofthe split between the nation. And
then that final year, it'sreally this impending split between
Malcolm and the US and thatthen allows me, when I'm narrating
the assassination, which tofirst sort of narrate the specific

(47:05):
members of the Nation of Islamand where they came from, who they
were, but then also talk aboutthe role of the US Government in
abetting the assassination.And it was, you know, again, I just
told it as the story that itwas in the sense of the actual day
that Malcolm was assassinatedand even the previous days. And so

(47:26):
to give an example, you'll seethat Malcolm's security detail had
been infiltrated by an NYPDundercover agent. And that undercover
agent witnessed a dry run onthe assassination a week before Malcolm
was killed. Reported that tohis. Authorities did not report it

(47:46):
to Malcolm. So the wholediversion that we know was critical
to Malcolm's assassination.They literally rehearsed that the
Sunday before Malcolm'sassassination. And, and so, you know,
and I, and I think it's justimportant to just share this. And
certainly even the bombing of,of Malcolm's home a few days before

(48:07):
his, which also is. Isnarrated in detail.
Yeah. And I'm going to listen.This is why he has a Ph.D. and I
don't. You're absolutelyright. The hundred is this year as
well. They're both. They'rethe same age. Let's talk about. You
get attacked for telling thesehistories because people see them
as divisive. Now you'retelling this history to a young audience

(48:28):
and I think you can expectyour book will be banned in Florida
and Texas. I apologize. That'sgoing to happen. And Arkansas and
Mississippi and Alabama.Anyway, a lot of things. What is
your argument to people whosay telling these stories divides
people?

(48:52):
So I would ask them, like,who's being divided? Right. Because
in the case of Malcolm X, theywould say, oh, well, it's dividing
Malcolm from white people.Well, actually, telling Malcolm's
story, like even theassassination, he was killed by five
black men. Right. And I'm alsonarrating how he was formulating

(49:13):
relationships with blackpeople who he came to trust and white
people. So there's a, there'sa scene in the book about him going
to the home of a New YorkTimes reporter, a white New York
Times reporter who he firstshares that he's leaving the Nation
of Islam. And he had developedtrust for this reporter over the

(49:35):
years. And I also sort ofnarrate the reasons why he developed
that trust because they wereactually quite similar in certain
types of ways. So it's not.This book doesn't necessarily sort
of paint white people as thesort of constant villain in Malcolm's
story because frankly, theyweren't the constant villain. Now,
white racist folks were theconstant villain. But Malcolm, of

(50:00):
course, was able to acceptwhite people who were striving to
be anti racist.
Yeah, I generally, when peoplesay that to me, I generally say my
question back to them is, whodo you identify with in this story?
Because there are plenty ofHeroic white people. You could identify
with the story, but if you'reoffended, maybe you're identifying
with the bad guys. Maybe it'sabout you and not about them. I want

(50:21):
to let people ask questions.So what we're going to do is here
now, look, waving hands in theair. This is the person with the
mic, and I want to remind youhe will continue to hold onto that
mic. He's not going to handyou the mic. You're not going to
get to drop the mic. And we'regoing to ask you to please do not
use the mic to give a speechor to make a statement. Make sure

(50:43):
that whatever you say actuallyhas an actual question mark on the
end of it, please, because weknow how it is. And if there are
any politicians who arerunning for office, this is not the
time. Or any pastors, not thetime for a sermon either. Even though
we love the Lord. We love theLord. I want you to understand that
there's a question here,please, and come over to the mic

(51:03):
when, if you have a question,if you don't mind, and we're going
to ask you to line up on thatside. And that way we can get everyone
in good order. And then afterthat, you guys are going to get to
get your books and your photoop with Dr. Kendi. Okay? Please tell
us who you are and ask yourquestion. Okay. My name is Marcel
Reed, and I'm with theWhistleblower Summit for Civil and

(51:25):
Human Rights. We're thelargest and oldest group of whistleblowers,
black whistleblowers,specifically, in the country. And
I want to talk about bytelling this story. Oh, wait a minute
now. If you're going to tell astory, how long is that story going
to take? I was going to say,okay, maybe this can be tied into

(51:48):
encouraging more people tostand up and to speak up like Malcolm
did. That is what I wanted tosay. Okay. And thank you very much
for writing the book. I'm fromCompton, and in Compton, we had the
Malcolm X Center. So for manyyears, when I was a kid, we were

(52:09):
at the Malcolm X Center.
So his imprint was huge. Thank you.
Thank you.
That's awesome. Thank you somuch. Oh, look at this. A young person.
Hello. What's your name?Imani. Okay, what's your question?

(52:29):
How long did it take for youto write the book? Can we just give
Imani a hand for asking aquestion? Okay.
So Imani's my daughter.
Y' all ring her.
So it took me, I believe,about two and a half years total

(52:53):
between research and Writingand then probably another year, the
whole publication process. Soprobably about three and a half years.
Can I ask Imani a question? Doyou mind? Can I ask you a question,
Imani? When. Because I know Ihave kids, when I was writing a book.
It's a lot of work. What wasit like for you while your dad is

(53:14):
working on this book?Exciting. Yeah. Are you proud of
him? Good. Well, thank youvery much. Thank you. Thank you.
All right, next question.
Good evening, Dr. Kendi. Ms.Reed. My name is Michael Anthony
Williams. I'm a professionalactor and writer and proud father

(53:34):
of a young Afro Latina who isa journalism major because of Ms.
Joy Reid.
Oh, thank you.
At Northwestern University. Somy question to you is, as powerful
as this story is and with theshort attention span of the target
audience, how most effectivelydo we get this to them in short burst?

(53:59):
Is it tick tock videos? Is itjust what, how is it, how is it best
to get it to them? Becausethey're not going to sit and read
your book at one in. In manysittings because their attention
span is just not there. Sohave you thought about that? And
can you share some insights onthat strategy? Because I certainly
would love to steal it.

(54:20):
Well, first, let me say when Iwas writing this book, I thought
about the fact that thecompetition is YouTube and even fiction.
So this is a nonfictionbiography. It's rare that our young
people are exposed to serioushistorical nonfiction. And so that's

(54:45):
the reason why I wrote it inthe way that I, that I wrote it,
and I wrote it in these veryvivid scenes that could be accessible
and interesting to youngpeople. Of course, we had all these
interesting materials in thebook. We had. There was, it was written
in second person. There werevery, very short chapters. So, you

(55:08):
know, their attention span isshort. They can read two pages and
then put it to the side andthen come back. So indeed, all the
things you were thinking aboutis precisely what I was considering
when I wrote the book. And Ithink that it is possible to give
this book to young people andI think in hope that they would be

(55:29):
captivated, buy it, becauseultimately we need their heads in
books.
And have you thought about.I'm going to let you ask about the
placement in schools becauseone of the ways that we get young
people to read is we assignthese books in school.
Yeah. And so I've probablyspoken at at least two schools every

(55:50):
day for the last two weeks.And so I've been trying as much as
possible to go to schools toget and ensure this book is going
to be taught there for thatprecise reason.
Great. Your question.Beautiful dress, by the way. Thank
you.
Hi, my name is Jessica Ortiz.I am Howard. Alum. So welcome, Bison.

(56:13):
Welcome to you. And I'mactually preparing to do a PhD focused
on economic development and inparticular, groups that have developed
outside of government support.Right. Kind of in preparation for
what we're going through.Anyway, my question is about Dr.
King's last book, actually,Where Do We Go From Here? And his

(56:35):
focus on his turn to economicdevelopment and independence that
some would argue brought onhis assassination. And I note that
he and Malcolm began to getclose at the end of Malcolm's life.
And I'm curious if there's anykind of crossover between Dr. King's
turn to economics andMalcolm's friendship.

(57:00):
Well, first, let me say Idon't know if you've heard of a new
book called the BlackUtopians. And this book literally
documents black people in theUnited States who had this utopian
view and really trying tocreate these black spaces, these

(57:22):
economic powerhouses that werenot receiving any governmental support.
One of the people who ischronicled in this book is a preacher
by the name of Reverend AlbertKleeg, who actually Malcolm knew
in Detroit, who was theminister of the shrine of the Black

(57:44):
Madonna in Detroit. And theyended up buying a significant piece
of land, I believe, in SouthCarolina, to engage in economic development.
So I would encourage you tocheck out that book, the Black Utopians.
It's actually a really goodbook for anybody who's interested
to your question very quickly.So we don't really talk enough about

(58:10):
Martin Luther King's growingcritique of capitalism. And similarly,
Malcolm X, when he was sort oftraveling to Africa and meeting with
African presidents, most ofthose African presidents, Kwame Nkrumah,
Jomo, Kenyatta, Julius Nyere,had deep criticisms of capitalism

(58:32):
or even were truly socialists.And so they, of course, and they
were impressing upon Malcolm,just as I suspect they were impressing
upon King to develop a moresophisticated understanding of having
a sort of class analysis. AndMalcolm, we never really know what

(58:55):
he would have arrived at. Butmy suspicion is precisely where King
arrived at is where Malcolmwas going.
Thank you very. I'm sort of.I'm very fascinated with black socialism
because, I mean, if you lookat indigenous societies, they don't
tend to be capitalists. Theydon't believe in owning land. And
so. And black people areindigenous to Africa. And so they

(59:16):
are very similar to indigenouspeople in this country. They come
from societies that are notcapitalistic at all. And so there's
that Western capitalist modelis imposed a lot of times on black
societies. I think that'sfascinating. I would love to read
that book. Please.
Phenomenal. Again, thank youvery much. My name is Dr. Abram Marsh.
I'm a professor, much likeyourself. And I do follow you, Ms.

(59:40):
Reed. I really enjoy whatyou've done with as you've transitioned
from mainstream into substack.
Thank you.
And that's where my questionarises. Both my wife and I are military
retirees. And as we look atwhat you all have done on a more.

(01:00:04):
Global.
Scale with a lot of the booksthat you've written and being on
major television, how do wetransition some of that into things
like Mahogany Books are doingmore independent because as you've
seen at that level, you know,you've had a lot of people, a lot

(01:00:25):
of industries, you know,prevent you from, you know, putting
your books in on bookshelvesin schools and the like. So how do
we find, how do we mobilizethat economic engine so we can use
independent agencies likeMahogany Books and others? Thank
you.
Do you want to try it? You gofor it.
So I'll say briefly becauseI'm curious to hear Joy's answer.

(01:00:50):
I'll say that particularly asan author, I think that's why events
like tonight are absolutelycritical in which we partner with
an independent black ownedbookstore who of course already has
trust and a following within acommunity of readers. And so it allows

(01:01:10):
us to be connected to thosereaders and not necessarily have
to go to the Washington Postor some sort of mainstream outlet.
We can partner with thoseorganizations and institutions that
already exist in ourcommunities to connect with people.
And that's how you do it as anauthor, by developing those relationships
with independent, particularlyblack owned and other sort of bookstores.

(01:01:35):
And if you do that, that's howyou can of course be successful.
And what's frank is I thinksome authors are led to believe that
the pipeline to bestsellerlist is trying to get, you know,
these big box retailers tocarry your books. And that's actually

(01:01:56):
not the route. And you know,there's even a debate right now about
how because black people areboycotting Target, it's hurting black
authors. And I've had a numberof bestsellers and I've never actually
thought of targeting as, as aplace that was helping me. So I don't
even know what folks aretalking about.
I've never, and I'm a supernerd and I've never bought a book

(01:02:17):
in Target ever, ever. I mean,you closed back in the Day before
we were boycotting them. ButI've never bought, never bought a
book in Target. And yeah, andI agree, I think it is about, you
know, James Baldwin sold a lotof books before there was cable news
and before there was aWashington, you know, before the
Washington Post was a majorbookseller. We have to get back to
community if you know, good,you know, particularly local and

(01:02:41):
independent booksellers.That's why I love, that's why I essentially
stalk Mahogany books and have.Right, because. And you know, you
think about these small books,that they are the ones who have the
passion for your individualproject. And so what I would tell
authors, if you guys areaspiring authors out there, don't
just go running to Barnes andNobles or Amazon. Think about these

(01:03:03):
independent booksellers who,particularly if they're embedded
in communities, becausethey're the ones who are passionate
about your book and about yourproject and about you. And start.
Let's go back to the oldschool ways that we educate each
other. We can educate oneanother. We can give out books in
church, we can have clubsindependently. Substack is brilliant
because it's a mailing list.You can just mail a whole bunch of

(01:03:23):
people and talk about yourbook. It's like, so find new ways.
Next question.
Okay, we got three more.
Hi, my name is Miska and thankeveryone for, for putting this event
on tonight.
So I have two questions and I.
Wrote them down so they'retied together.
Out.
Okay. What is the message youhope young readers and their parents
will get from this book inorder to use in this current day

(01:03:45):
and beyond? And then one ofthe other gentlemen mentioned about
engaged. Have you developed aworkbook or guide.
To facilitate meaningful conversations?
Well, let me say the secondquestion. There is a workbook and
guide that's in developmentfor teachers, but we haven't thought

(01:04:07):
about maybe developing one forcaregivers more broadly. That's certainly
something I can bring back tothe lab and see whether that's possible.
To the first question, there'sso many different messages I think
that people could take away,but I just want to mention one and

(01:04:28):
I think it's reflective on theCOVID itself. And so if you look
at the COVID Malcolm X isrising out of books. And that was
intentional. Malcolm X, ofcourse, became this world renowned
revolutionary who would debateanyone and who could, say, speak

(01:04:51):
before these elite collegecrowds or just regular old folks,
either with ease and wasfearless and had the capacity to
create these analogies thatwere incredibly sophisticated but
made sense to people and whohad the ability to Talk to regular

(01:05:15):
folks about global issues andlocal issues all in the same speech.
Because he was a serious,serious reader. And the book, especially
the middle part of the book,is a story about how he came to be
a reader and how he developedthis incredible curiosity and how

(01:05:39):
he believed that by becoming areader and becoming thirsty for knowledge,
he freed himself. And so he'sliterally in prison, describing himself
as free because of the powerof books.
Love that. And a young personwith a question. Hello.

(01:06:02):
Okay.
My name is Hair, by the way.
Thank you.
My name is Luna. And so Ireally appreciate the stuff you do
by making books about peopleand everything. What do you think
that. Oh my God, I forgot hisname. I freaking forgot his name.

(01:06:25):
Take your time.
I bring. Wait, no. Oh, MalcolmLive. Malcolm would give advice to
kids. That's a great question.Let's give a round of applause. We
love when a young person asksthe question, what advice do you
think Malcolm would give kids today?

(01:06:47):
So I want to share somethingthat he actually stated he wrote
in one of his notebooks that'sactually in the book. So there's
an image of this in the bookand that is him saying, and I'm paraphrasing
that, be kind to peoplebecause you never know what they're

(01:07:08):
going through. And I thinkthat's just a powerful message to
convey to young people becauseI think it gives you a sense of empathy.
Because even if the person infront of you is not crying, that
doesn't necessarily mean thatthey're not in deep pain. And your
kindness could do. Could bethe work could make the world for

(01:07:31):
them in that moment, just asyou compounding their pain, you know,
could, could of course reallyharm them. And so kindness even,
you know, to everyone becauseyou're always thinking about that
person could be going tosomething I think is a powerful message
he would have given to kids.
That's awesome. Okay, last question.

(01:07:54):
Thank you for putting this onthis evening. My question is a little
bit more of a light heartedquestion. And it's in this society
and just in general, we have alot of young people who are striving
athletically to do a lot ofdifferent things. But through the

(01:08:15):
reading and coming to knowMalcolm and particularly in your
journey, as you kind ofstudied him a lot, my question more
is just about his humor, hiswit, his. His ability to engage people
with a level of humor that Ithink draws people in. Yes, sometimes

(01:08:40):
it's. He's saying things thatobviously that, that excite people.
But I think that, you know,you know, as James Baldwin has said.
And, you know, being in thissociety can kind of drive you crazy
at times. And I feel like hehad a way of kind of using his wit,
his intellect, his humor, allthe different things to navigate

(01:09:06):
difficult times as well assome hard times and bring people
together, too. So in yourreading and writing and studying
and putting this booktogether, can you just speak a little
bit about that?
Sure. So I just want to givetwo examples because indeed, I'm
happy you mentioned that,because privately, Malcolm was a

(01:09:30):
huge jokester, so we can'treally know that necessarily for
sure. We don't have a lot ofstories of that. But all the sort
of reports and evidence thatwe do have speaks to Malcolm having
a pretty lightheartedpersonality when he was in private.
But some of that came outpublicly. And probably the most obvious

(01:09:56):
example is the day that he wassort of literally suspended from
the Nation of Islam. So hegives a speech in Manhattan, and
not long prior to this,Kennedy JFK had been assassinated.
And Elijah calls him up andsays, don't say anything about the

(01:10:18):
Kennedy assassination. Malcolmhad been deeply critical of Kennedy's,
particularly his foreignpolicy. And so Malcolm. And when
I say his foreign policy, hefelt that Kennedy was not protecting
Patrice Lumumba and a wholehost of other African leaders who
were facing the wrath of theCIA or even other European, former

(01:10:39):
colonial sort ofassassinations. And then he, of course,
was upset of the. Kennedy'sresponse to the four girls who were
killed in Birmingham, whichhappens literally weeks before that,
the assassination of MedgarEvers. And so he gives this speech.
He doesn't say anything aboutKennedy, but then somebody asked

(01:11:00):
him in the. In the Q and Aperiod, what do you think about Kennedy's
assassination? So Malcolm justcouldn't help himself, right? So
he tells a joke, right? He.He. Which is really not funny, but
he tells a joke about thechickens coming home to roost. And.
But the way he told the joke,he literally had the entire crowd

(01:11:22):
laughing right in the way hetold the joke. And so that's just
one example of a deeplyserious moment. But he decided to
tell a joke. Another example,and probably my favorite one, is
when he's giving a speech andhe basically talks about the enemies

(01:11:44):
of black people. And he saysthat to black people, you wouldn't
be here if some enemy didn'tkidnap here, kidnap you and bring
you here. And then he says,but then again, some of y' all think
y' all came here on the Mayflower.
Please give her. I have tonote that my T shirt, I wore this
on purpose because I am herewith my friends at Mahogany Books

(01:12:07):
and it says that you cannotban my history. This is somebody
who has put forward ourhistory fearlessly and so it makes
sense that he would write abook about a fearless man, a fearless
hero. Please give anotherround of applause to Dr. Ibram X
Kendi and thank you MahoganyBooks. Thank you to this wonderful

(01:12:29):
library for having us andthank you all.
Give a round of applause forJoy Ann Reid as well.
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