May 13, 2025 • 52 mins
Nick Brooks, the esteemed author, filmmaker, and hip-hop artist, returns to his roots in the Washington, DC area to unveil his latest young adult mystery novel, *Up in Smoke*. In this engaging and thought-provoking discussion, hosted by Derrick Young, co-owner of MahoganyBooks, Brooks articulates his profound affection for his hometown and elucidates the transformative power of literature in his life. The conversation traverses the intricacies of his writing process and delves into the motivations behind his fervent dedication to crafting narratives for young readers. Without revealing any spoilers, Brooks and Young explore the dynamics of key characters and the compelling plot that propels this remarkable mystery forward. This episode promises to resonate with listeners, especially those invested in the literary development of youth in today's society.
Takeaways:
- Nick Brooks articulates his profound affection for Washington, DC, emphasizing how it has shaped his identity and creativity.
- In a spoiler-free discussion, Nick elucidates the intricate dynamics of the characters in his novel, Up in Smoke, and their motivations.
- The conversation underscores the critical importance of providing young readers with literature that resonates with their experiences and challenges.
- Nick shares a poignant moment when his reading captivated a group of high school students, highlighting the undeniable power of storytelling.
- The discussion addresses the societal themes embedded within Up in Smoke, particularly the impact of systemic issues on youth in urban settings.
- Nick expresses his aspiration to inspire young readers not only to engage with literature but also to become active participants in their communities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:45):
Welcome to the Mahogany BooksPodcast Network, your gateway to
the world of African Americanliterature. We're proud to present
a collection of podcastsdedicated to exploring the depth
and richness of AfricanAmerican literature. Immerse yourself
in podcasts like Black BooksMatter, the podcast where we learn
about the books and major lifemoments that influence today's top
(01:05):
writers. Or tune in to realBallers Read, where brothers Jan
and Miles invite amazingpeople to talk about the meaningful
books in their lives. Sowhether you're a literature enthusiast,
enthusiast, an advocate forsocial justice, or simply curious
about the untold stories thatshape our world, subscribe to the
Mahogany Books Podcast Networkon your favorite platform and let
(01:26):
African American literatureignite your passion.
My name is Derek Young. I amone of the owners of Mahogany Books.
I am a from here, fromSoutheast dc. This is my. Thank you.
(01:47):
This is my home library, Igrew up in this area and this is
the library I used to come toall the time to do my studies, to
hang out, to read books. SoI'm super excited to come here when
we have these events becauseone, this is the place that helped
(02:08):
to form my love for readingand for books. And number two, the
fact that we get to come backhere and provide the same experience
for other people, for otherkids, for other individuals about
books that connect with themis really important to me. So like
I said, my name is DerekYoung. My wife and I founded Mahogany
(02:31):
Books in 2007 as an onlinebookstore dedicated to selling books.
Books written for by and aboutpeople of the African diaspora. In
2017 we opened up our firststore in Southeast DC. It was the
first bookstore in theSoutheast area in over 20 years.
Our second bookstore we openedin 2021 in National harbor, which
(02:52):
is five minutes down away. Andwe actually have another store coming
to you soon that we willhopefully be announcing in the next
year. Our goal is one to makebooks, black books, accessible and
available to the community. Tomake sure that everyone has a place
to connect and to get around.Other people who love books love
these stories the way that wedo. And one of the things that we
(03:15):
love to do is to host eventslike this. So I don't know if I really
need to read a bio because Ithink everyone here knows and loves
the brother Nick Brooks. ButI'm going to do it anyway just so
we have it for for posteritysake, for our podcast. Nick Brooks
is the critically acclaimedauthor of Promise Boys, an award
(03:38):
winning filmmaker fromWashington D.C. he's a 2020 graduate
of USC's TV and FilmProduction Program. His short film
Hoop Dreaming earned him theGeorge Lucas Scholar Award and was
a finalist in the Forbes 30under 30 film fest. Before becoming,
before becoming a filmmaker,Nick was an educator working with
(03:58):
at risk youth. And many of hisstories are inspired by his. By his
experiences here with thechildren and families of this community.
He is also the author of theMiddle grade series Nothing Interesting
Ever Happens to EthanFairmont. And of course, like I said,
he is the critically accameauthor of the book Promise Boys.
Please welcome Nick Brooks.
(04:33):
There we go. Thank you, Derek.I appreciate it. Thank y' all for
being here. Thank you so much.All right. Thank you, all my friends
and family. I love it.
Yes. All right, so we know wegot some heat issues here. We're
going to deal with it. That'sokay. Yeah, we're going to hang out,
we're going to have fun andhave this conversation and we're
(04:54):
going to talk about your brandnew book.
Yeah.
Up in Smoke.
Yes, yes, yes.
And we were just talking about this.
Yeah, yeah.
How you feel?
I feel good, man. You know, Iwork a lot.
Yes.
So I'm trying to. I'm steady.Trying to learn and practice living
in the moment.
Right.
Being present, not thinkingabout the next thing you know, I'm
(05:15):
sure I'm not the only personwho struggles with that. So taking
it all in, processing and. Andtrying to enjoy it. Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I'm glad you saidthat because, like, I have some.
Sometimes that same experiencewith, you know, you get into the
process of just working andgrinding and trying to make your
dreams come true, raising afamily like you, you know, trying
(05:37):
to make sure your wife andkids are good. But there are times
that we need to take a step back.
Yeah.
And really appreciate whatyou've been able to accomplish. Because
a decade, two decades ago,when you were like plotting this
stuff in your mind, you waslike, how am I going to get here?
Exactly.
And now you're here and you'redoing fantastic.
(05:59):
Thank you, brother.
Yeah.
No, you're totally right. Youhave to be grateful for the things
you asked for and when theycome, you know, you appreciate it.
And so that's something Idefinitely learned early on, is appreciation.
And so. Which is why I'm soconscious of trying to stay present
and trying to always begracious because like you said, this,
this is what we asked for, youknow, been asking for for a long
time. Just wanting to be anartist and be a writer. So. Thank
(06:20):
you. Yes.
So we were actually having. Wekind of got started late because
we was having A conversationin the back and we forgot to include
you guys in on was a reallygood conversation. So I kind of want
to pick up from there becauseone of the things you mentioned was
the thing that really kind ofbrings you back to reality is when
(06:41):
you're actually working withkids. And you was talking about an
experience you had yesterdayat Planet Word with some kids from
Anacostia. Can you talk aboutthat a little bit?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I was at Planet Word yesterdayspeaking with kids from Anacostia
High School, 10th, 11th, and12th grade. And y' all was. Y' all
been in high school, and I wasa teacher. The kids get rowdy sometimes,
especially when they on fieldtrips. Right. And so that's what
(07:04):
was happening. And I quietthem down, tell them, hey, I'm gonna
read a passage from the book,the first page, which, when you get
it, you'll see the first pageis only a couple paragraphs long.
And from the moment I startedthe first sentence on the first page,
the kids got dead quiet. Andby time I finished, I could see their
eyes. They were huge. Theywere staring at me. And they were
(07:25):
asking me for more. They werelike, please, please, read more.
Read more. And that is thepart that never gets old. That's
the part that reminds me,Right. Of, like, why we do what we
do. And in those moments, I'mable to be present, which is why
probably I'm connected to itso much because it grounds me and
it reminds me of where I'm at.But they were so excited about that
(07:48):
passage, and that let me know.Okay, this is connecting. This is
why you put in all of thiswork. So that was powerful for me.
Yeah. And I absolutely, like,appreciate that, because I think.
And we've had thisconversation, another conversation
about this is how especiallyyoung guys, young black guys, getting
little boys into books.
(08:08):
Yes.
Right.
Yes.
We have to be cognizant thatit's. We don't give them the books
that we want them to read.
Yeah.
We have to give them the booksthat they want to read.
Yeah.
Whether it's a comic book.
Yeah.
Graphic novel, a mystery book,whatever it is. If that's what attracts
them to literature, thenthat's what we have to. We give them
(08:31):
what they want. And that'swhat I loved about that experience
for you yesterday.
Yeah.
I mean, it seemscounterintuitive, but maybe it isn't.
Like, when you force them toread the thing that you think they're
supposed to read, it justmakes them resent reading, and then
they don't want to Read. Youknow what I mean? And so for me,
we might have spoke about thisbefore, but there was a book makes
me want to holler by a guy,Nathan McCall, that I read, that
(08:54):
really grabbed me, right? Andthen from there, Walter Mosley, my
aunt.
My.
My Aunt Joy, she gave me abook by. She's like, maybe try this.
Right? And she understood. Andso, yeah, before that, you know,
I'm reading Gifted Hands, and,you know, shit, I'm like, this is
boring. Yeah, I don't want toread this for. For as wonderful of
a man Malcolm X was, you know,reading it at 10:11. It's like, what
(09:18):
is this?
Right.
You know what I'm saying? So,yeah, yeah. I told her, you got to
meet the kids. Where they at?
I mean, imagine that, a kidnot wanting to do what a parent is
telling them to do.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah. You know, we'vebeen there. Right? We understand
this. So. So my first realofficial question. So I worked hard
on these questions, y' all.
Okay.
Like, I've been. I'm like,number one. I don't want to embarrass
(09:40):
myself.
Yeah, yeah.
Nick Brooks is my boy. I wantto make sure that people get a chance
to enjoy the book, but alsoreally hear from you. So I really
wanted to make sure thesequestions were going to be good.
So, first, number one, again,welcome home. Right. And one of the
things that I guess you allnotice, especially with Promise Boys
(10:01):
and Up in Smoke, is you'rewriting books that are based here,
Right. And you was doing a.You had a IG post that came out yesterday
talking about, you know,because you was on H Street.
Yep. Yep.
And talking about writing.Yeah, from this. Like, this is the
place where I'm writing thisstory from.
Yes. Yes.
Can you talk about why that'simportant to represent DC in your
(10:25):
work?
Yeah, for sure.
I guess for me, it's two mainreasons. One is because of craft.
It's like, I want to writefrom a place that feels authentic,
that feels lived in. I want towrite from a place that I understand
so that I can be sure that thewords connect with the audience or
the reader. So that's like thecraft perspective, which, of course,
I can write anything, butparticularly writing for kids, I
(10:47):
want to make sure that thisfeels real to them because they can
smell bullshit. And then thesecond reason for me is I think it's
representation. You know,part. Again, part of what I want
to do is inspire kids to writetheir own stories, to read, to become
the person that they want tobe, and So I think it's important
for me. I want to, you know,because I came from here, this is
(11:07):
my tribe, and I feel like, youknow, I want to give back to my tribe,
and I think it's particularlyimportant for boys here to see that,
because I'm going to connectwith them in a different way, with
them understanding that I'mfrom the same place they're from.
Right. So it's like, insteadof leaving that job up to somebody
else, you know, I can writeabout boys from Cleveland. I'm not
from Cleveland, you know, sothey got a guy from, you know, the
(11:27):
King, you know.
Yeah.
So that's. So it's craft, andthen it's also, you know, responsibility.
Yeah. So talk about the energythat you're infusing into the book,
like. Cause there's a. Thereis a. How many people from D.C. like,
who is from D.C. not transplant.
Okay.
(11:47):
So y' all understand, like,D.C. is its own place, right? Like,
you go to Baltimore, and I.It's different in Baltimore, different
in Philly, different in New York.
Yeah.
D.C. is its own thing.
Yeah, yeah.
So how do you. As part of the craft.
Yeah.
Like, infuse that energy,like, into the book? Because in the
first two chapters. We're notgonna do any spoilers here.
(12:08):
Yeah.
But you. There's a protestthat's happening. Yeah, Right.
Yeah.
And as I'm reading, I'm like,okay, this. This feels like something
I've been to before. And thenwhen they're dodging through the
alleyways, I'm like, okay, Ikind of know what that's like. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
So how do you work on bringingthat energy of D.C. yeah. Into the.
(12:31):
Into the book.
Into the book.
Yeah.
And the last thing I want tosay, because you had a store called
Motown, which if DC Moisturiz.
Yeah, yeah.
So just, like, how do you do that?
Yeah, yeah.
That's actually part of it.What you just mentioned. Right. Is
culture. A lot of it isculture. So culture is language.
Mo. Right. Is place. Right. SoH Street. Right. So it's really culture.
(12:52):
And how do I. You know, again,that goes back to your point of,
like, why. Right. From D.C. isbecause I. Well, I know the culture
here, and I can. I can doexactly what you're talking about.
I can make it feel lived in.How do I infuse culture? So the language,
the slang, the way they dress.Right. You know, Cooper's wearing
New Balances. Right. You know,location, H Street. Like, all of
those things play a part tobuild a world. And once you start
(13:15):
reading it, you know, and youhave that culture on the page. It
puts you in that world. Andso, yeah, that's. I think that's
it. It's just the culture. AndI'm able to write from that place
because I know the culture. Right.
Yeah.
Right. And I. So. And people,I want you guys to understand that
dc, I don't know if peoplereally understand, like, the. The
amount of, like, literaryexcellence that's coming out of dc,
(13:39):
the number of people that arewriting adult books as well as kids
books that are doing someincredible things that are DC authors.
So the fact that, you know,we're now adding Nick Brooks to that,
to that mix.
Yeah.
You know, is really, really fantastic.
Thank you.
All right, so up in Smokecenters around young kid Cooper.
Sorry, about to say Cooperflag. I'm a Duke fan. Oh, pardon
(14:03):
me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cooper King.
Cooper King.
Yeah.
And, you know, this is. So youkick it off from there.
Yeah.
Because I want you to kind ofset up the story the way you want
it.
Yeah. It's centered aroundthis kid, Cooper King, who lives
on Lane Place. Right. So ifanybody knows off the 21st over by
(14:24):
Heck and Jamal. And he's notsure where he quite fits in. You
know, he thinks he's gonna geta summer job, but the DC jobs are
cut for kids because ofcutbacks in the city, which is crazy.
Cause I wrote this way beforeDoge, right. And prophetic. And so
(14:45):
he's trying to figure out whathe wants to do. But in the midst
of that, there's an officerinvolved, shooting the life of a
young kid. Samir, right, istaken, which is really a call to
Tamir, Tamir Rice at UnionStation. Kids snatched a purse, shot
by off duty cop. There's only20 bucks in a purse. The kid lost
his life. And so there's aprotest happening down at 8th Street.
And Cooper gets roped in bysome of his friends to go against
(15:07):
his father's wishes. And atthe protest, there's a shooting,
right? Cooper flees, likeeverybody. This is, you know, mad
scramble, mad dash. He getshome, realizes and learns that there
is a body victim, murderedvictim. And on the screen, there
flashes, there are fivesuspects. And he's one of the suspects.
(15:30):
It's him and his friends onthe screen with their, you know,
with their mask that they werewearing at the protest. And now he's
extremely freaked out. And sohe works with his, his, his, his
crush, right, Monique, tofigure out what really happened.
Because one of those fivefriends has already been arrested.
And it happens to be Monique'sbig bro. They pair up to figure out
what's going on to saveCooper's life and Monique's brother
(15:53):
Jason. Yes.
Yeah.
So here's one of the things.
You want to read that. Y' allwant to read that?
Yeah, we all do.
Yeah. Yeah.
So here's one of the thingsthat, like, I picked up on, so. And
maybe it's the dad of me. Right.
So.
The thing that I noticed.Right. So Jason.
Yeah.
Who is. And the way that youdescribe him is Cooper's mentor.
(16:16):
Right. Jason is not making thebest decisions. Right. And number
one, I found that to be a veryinteresting use of words. When you
called Jason his mentor,though, Jason isn't the one that's
always making the best ofdecisions. And the reason Cooper
(16:38):
is actually in this situationis partly because he doesn't.
Want to let down his bighomie. Exactly.
So this is the dad of methinking, like, okay, how do you
keep your kids from. But canyou talk about that? Like, why was
it a dad in you writing that?What was that part for you?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Ithink, again, it goes. I think about
(16:59):
my experience growing up, andthere's certain guys in the neighborhood
that just seem cool becausethey got the car, right. They rolling
in the. The Impala orsomething. You know, back when I
was. It was the 95 or the 96impala or something like that. And
they seem cool. They got theirown change, and they seem like they're
doing what they want to do.But I always had a very strong discernment
(17:22):
and many, many instances in mylife where there was a. The guy,
the big homie saying, hey,let's go do this. And there's times
I've literally. There's timesI've gone and left early. There's
times I didn't go. But in bothscenarios, either scenario, I always
missed the part. I was neveron the screen as a suspect for a
(17:43):
murder. You know what I'msaying? I always miss that part because
I'm like, yeah. You know whatI'm saying? I'm like, okay, either
I need to leave now, or thisdoesn't feel like something I should
be a part of.
Right.
And again, so with Cooper, youknow, Cooper didn't have that discernment
in the beginning, but by theend, he did. And that's just character
arc. Right. Like, you can't beperfect from the start, but that's
where that really comes from.Again, you talk about putting those.
(18:05):
Those gems.
Yeah.
In it for kids to kind of pickup on, not beat them over the head,
but that's where that reallycame from. It's like, there's always
going to be those guys.
Right?
There's always going to beguys that you look up to. And to
be honest, you know, it.That's also a byproduct of there
not being enough guys in theneighborhood that they should be
looking up to. You know whatI'm saying? And so, yeah, there's
(18:27):
always going to be those guys,but you got to make the right choice.
Right.
And so that's what.
Yeah.
I mean, there's like. I canjust really make this whole conversation
about different themes thatare happening in this book, because
one of the other themes thatreally kind of stuck out to me was
you first talked about, was itthe summer youth employment program
(18:51):
being cut? Right?
Yep.
And Cooper's words wereessentially, like, there's hope.
It's hopeless now. It feels tight.
Like, yes.
Yeah.
I was planning my summer.Right. I was planning my summer around
this thing that was. I wasgoing to have to. I can go and work,
make a little bit of money,help my dad out.
Yep.
Right now this thing is gone,and this, like, hopelessness is now
(19:16):
kind of pervasive over me andthe rest of these guys.
Yep.
Right. And the. That wassomething that I felt deeply because
that's something we have tomake sure that we are guarding against
for our youth. Was thatsomething that was planned in terms
of setting up the plot foreverything that's gonna happen in
(19:37):
this book?
For sure. You know, the bookis, everything is kind of predicated
on the idea that there's somuch crime happening in the city
because opportunities for ourkids are being taken away. Right.
And.
Or they don't have access toopportunity. One of the two. And
so definitely it was like,okay, I was a syep kid. You know,
I was lifeguard for fouryears. And again, it was beneficial
(20:01):
in tremendous ways, probablyways I don't even know. And so I
just imagine, okay, this beingtaken away, and then, you know, the
climbing was just different.Like, these kids got pistols 14,
you know what I'm saying? Sofor me, it was about, okay, I understand
that this is because there'snot enough opportunity. Like, that's
(20:21):
just fact. And so I wanted to.Again, it's just one of those things
I want to put in a book thathits close to home. So just exactly
what you said. Then you readit and say, okay, we need to start
providing more opportunities.You know what I'm saying? It's all
about just Putting thesethings in books for people to recognize
and say, oh, this is a problemhere in this world. How can we fix
this in our real world? Right.This is a mirror. I'm holding up
a mirror and being like, yo,this is what's happening.
(20:43):
Yeah.
So we need to do somethingabout it. So.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that's what I love about.I'm not going to lie. I love. I'm
a 47 year old man who lovesreading young adult and young reader
books.
Yeah.
Because like, this is contentthat we, as adults, we think we,
we forget what we don't know.Right. That experience that we've
(21:05):
had 30, 40 years ago. Right.Of how a kid feels when they're 15,
16, 17.
Yeah.
Like sometimes we need to bereminded of that. Like, okay, you
know what, maybe this is whyhe's just on his phone and don't
go outside or whatever becauselike, there's nothing out there for
me.
Yeah.
And these are conversationsthat note, if you read a book with
(21:26):
your kid. Right.
Yeah.
These are conversations thatyou guys can have to maybe figure
out, you know, instead ofthose one word answers that your
kids give you.
Yes.
Like, how are they reallyfeeling about the things that are
happening?
Yes, yes.
I think that's. This is agreat book to read if you have a
teenager, you know, it's agreat. I think that's really smart
because my hope is thatthey'll be really into it. Right.
(21:50):
And then y' all will reallyhave things to talk about and really
can dialogue. So I thinkthat's. That's beautiful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome.
So I did that with my son fora little bit and I realized that
he reads so much faster than Ido. And then it was being held over
my head when he was like, youstill reading?
Yeah. Yeah.
You ain't finished?
Yeah, yeah.
You know what? I don'tappreciate the way you make.
Me feel right now checkingyou. Yeah.
(22:11):
I'm feeling a littleinadequate right now, but my 16 year
old, like, no.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh, my goodness.
That's beautiful. That's. Ithink that's very smart. Okay.
All right, all right, so, sowe talked about. So I want to kind
of like, kind of dive deeperinto this idea of the message and
(22:32):
the mystery. Okay. So youdefinitely. You write these books
now. You have this, who done it.
Yep.
Right?
Yeah.
And these kids are, you know,working their way through this story,
trying to figure out like,what happened.
Yeah.
But it's the message piecethat I think continues to resonate
(22:53):
with me that, you know, again,it's, it's. How do you trick them
into learning? And you wasjust kind of talking like you used
the word Inception, which, youknow, if you guys love movies, like,
Inception is a great thing.Like kind of talk about how you trying
to Inception these kids intolike into learning.
No, absolutely. And I alsobrought up Sinners. I don't know
if people here have seen themovie Sinners, but it feels like
(23:17):
the whole, the whole world hasseen it. But Ryan does such a great
job of doing exactly whatyou're talking about. Right. Whereas
a vampire movie, you know,some people say, oh, this is Dust
till dawn.
Right.
But far, far more importantthan Dusto Dawn. Right. It's all
of these themes and messageswhich is, I'm not going to give too
much away, but just likelittle quips of dialogue. And so
(23:38):
it's similar in that way whereit's like, I just want to put the
ideas there. I don't want toexplore the idea. I want you to explore
the idea like you, you explorethe idea. But I'm going to put the
idea for you to think about.And that's, I think that's the trick.
And you put the idea incontext, right? And that context
you make entertaining. So it'slike, okay, the idea of there not
(23:59):
being any opportunities thatleads to these kids going down to
this protest and it, you know,be causing chaos and there's a murder,
like in that context, then itsticks with you. Like that happened
because they cut thoseprograms. We can't cut program. You
know what I mean? So it'sabout taking these ideas. We don't
talk about syep no more afterwe do it, right? After we. But after
(24:20):
that idea's planted, it stuckwith you. It's like, oh, this is.
Was. This is the motivation.
Yeah.
So that's what it's about isputting the idea in, in a context
that's. That keeps the, theaudience glued and then let them
do the digging for it. Right?And then that's the Inception piece.
It's just like the, the candyand the medicine type of thing. And
so for me that's importantbecause I'm not again, I. And it's
(24:42):
also like a taste slash likepreference. Like I personally don't
like watching things that arebeating me over there. Like, I don't
like consuming that type of. Ijust don't like it. You know, to
be honest, it doesn't respectthe audience. It doesn't respect
the audience. It's like, Ineed to spoon feed you just because
you're not. You're. You're notcapable of understanding it or, you
know, having the wherewithalto dive into yourself. You know,
(25:03):
I want to be respected as anaudience. Right. So it's like. I
think that's part of it too.Let me just give it to you. Because,
you know, if you. If you. Ifyou're here, then I know you're going
to do the work to get the restof the way.
No, no, no, I definitely likethat. Like, especially, you know,
you're writing for youngreaders, for young adults. We have
to respect their own intelligence.
Yes.
Right.
Their own wisdom. They are smart.
Yeah.
Very smart.
Yeah, yeah.
(25:24):
Not to cut you off, but I'llsay one quick thing. A lot of this,
these themes came out of aconversation I had with a young person.
I was in, actually, Chicago,which is, you know, the book starts
with a Fred Hampton quote, butI was in Chicago and a young lady
stood up at a school and shesaid, how do we combat systemic oppression?
Like, you know, a 10th grader.And it's like. I was like, damn,
(25:44):
like, they are ready to talkabout these things. And I didn't
even have a real answer forher because it was. It caught me
so off guard. But that. Thatstuck with me. And that's what, again,
meeting them. Where you at?So, like, oh, bet.
Yeah.
Like, let's go there. Let's,like, start to talk about revolution
and liberation and activism,but do it in a way that feels like
a murder mystery. Right?
Yeah.
Right.
Okay. So, yeah, imagine thatthese kids are actually smart, intelligent,
(26:07):
listening to their parents.Gonna have, you know, deep. She's
just laughing. She's like. Sheknows. She's like, I'm trying to
tell you. Okay, yeah. Let'shave this conversation. I'm with
you.
Yeah.
And then. And then, you know,when we listen, we'll be so surprised.
Like, yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
(26:27):
Like you.
Yeah.
You were actually listening to me.
Yeah.
Right. You weren't justrolling your eyes, you were actually
listening to me and using thisin your life somehow. Love that.
Okay, so the co. Lead of the book.
Yes.
Is Monique.
Monique, right. So.
So I'm actually kind ofcurious. When did you decide to.
(26:49):
Was she always a part of thebook? And why did you find it necessary
to add a female colleague? Andwhat were you wanting her to bring?
Yeah. To the book.
Absolutely. Well, it's. It's first.
Yes.
She was always a part of thebook. And Promise. And Promise Boys.
(27:10):
One of the aspects peopleloved a lot were JB and if, you know,
Promise Boys. There were Thesetwo characters, JB and Kiana, JB
was one of the lead Promiseboys and Kiana was a girl from his
neighborhood. And people lovetheir dynamic. Like, you know, particularly
the young, the young femaleaudience. They like, oh, we want
more Kiana, we want moreKiana. And that, that, that spoke
to me. I said, dope, y' alllike that. Okay. So that was part
(27:32):
of it, making it this twohander. And then also like this.
Will they, won't they romance?You know what I mean? Again, just
meeting the kids where they, Isaw that that was something they
gravitated towards. I said,okay, maybe, maybe I could put more
romance in my books. Right.Like, so that was part of it. And
then also I needed duality.Cooper, again, I don't want to give
(27:52):
too much away, but, butCooper, I really don't want to give
this because this is like atwist in the story. But Cooper and
Monique were at the protestfor very different reasons. You know
what I'm saying? And so again,talk about character art. I needed
them both to have an art.Monique is also very, she starts
very self righteous. Right.She thinks her way is the right way,
(28:15):
her way of activism is theright way to do it. Right. And so
I wanted them to basically beagain, like each other's duality
where they can help each otherhave a complete art and bring them
to a place where maybe it'smore nuanced, it's not so black and
white, Right. In the way thatthey start. So that was really it.
And then again, like I said,the romance. So it was really the
(28:35):
romance. You know, I thinkthat was important. I think having
them both be like them bothlearn from each other, change each
other's character and thenit's just like cute and fun, you
know what I mean? To have likethis two handed with this young boy
and his young girl.
Yeah.
Like solving his murder.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I absolutely like thatbecause the term I learned for this
(28:57):
book is dual pov.
Yes.
Right. Like, I guess I've beenreading dual POV books for a while
now. Didn't realize it waslike an actual. So can you tell the
audience a little bit about that?
Yeah.
What?
The dual POV is just a bookwritten from two perspectives. Promise
Boys was written from threemain perspectives. But yeah, it's
(29:17):
just.
Yeah, that's what it is.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because so when you, when youanswer that question and you talk
about everything is not blackand white.
Yes.
There's a lot of gray.
Yes.
And stuff.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And there are times that likeyou said, we think. Yeah, our way
is the only way.
Yes.
But having this other person.
(29:37):
Yes, yes.
It helps give some. Someperspective. Right. And the other
thing, of course, is. And thisis just good tension is there are
secrets that they're. Thatthey're keeping from each other.
Right. So that's the otherthing about, you know, multi perspective.
It's like you can havecharacters, keep secrets, hide the
ball, be dishonest. Right. Andthose things create tension for the
story. So that's also like,just like a craft thing, you know?
(29:59):
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
This is dope. This is like awriters creative writers 101 type
of. I'm learning a lot here.Okay. I won't be writing no book.
That's a lot of discipline.That's a lot of real. How long did
it take you?
This took about a year.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's about a year from.From, you know, from conception to.
(30:19):
To out, to finish.
Okay.
So I wasn't going to ask thisquestion yet.
Yeah.
In the. The, like, how I hadthings ordered, but it just kind
of brought me there.
Yeah.
Like, what is your. Like, whatis your process?
Yeah.
So once you identify this isthe story, like you met the young
lady in Chicago.
(30:40):
Yeah.
She kind of like dropped thisthing in your head, like, from that
point to getting through this.
Yeah.
What. What is the process?
For sure. Yeah.
It Usually in books, for sure.The way it's been for me is always
start with theme. Right.What's the thing? What do I want
this to be about ultimately?Then from there is the way in. Or
like the inciting incident or,you know, what's the thing that kicks
(31:02):
off the plot? So I'm like,okay, I want to do something around
activism, around being a youngrevolutionary. What can ha. Okay,
I do murder mystery. How do Iget in that world? Protest. Okay,
Protest. What would happen ata. Oh, okay. Murder at a protest.
You know what I mean? It'sjust. It's just. And they call it,
you know, the way in. So Ifigure out the way in, and then from
there I outline. Okay, well.And then I decide on my character.
(31:25):
Right. My protagonist. Okay,here's my way in. Protest. Murder.
Boom. I got a mystery right inthe world. Now. Who do we enter?
Whose eyes do we enter thestory through? Who's the best person
for this story? And thenthat's where you come up with, like,
these arcs of, like. Okay, youknow, again, I don't want to give
too much away about Cooper andwhy he's there, but how do we take
him from one place to anotherplace. Right. And so I don't want
(31:48):
to get in the minutiae of ittoo much, but from there I just outline
the story. Like, what's theplot? Literally beginning, middle,
end? Like, what generallyhappens? Who's my villain? You know
what I mean? Those type ofthings. And then once I have an outline
that I feel good about, thenI'll just start putting words on
the page and, and go for it,you know what I mean? And then, and
then, and then there's a tonof, you know, rewriting after that.
(32:10):
That's, which is where Ireally have the fun. The putting
on the words on the page islike the really hard for some people.
For me, that's the, that's thepart that's like hardest to just.
Do you talk about that.Discipline. That's. For me, that's
the part that's hardest to bedisciplined about. Because you just
stand at a blank page andthese words are supposed to appear,
you know, 60 to 80,000 wordssupposed to appear. So you're like,
okay, you know what I'msaying? But then, but the rewriting
(32:33):
is where I have a lot of funbecause the words are already there
now. I'm just like massaging.But yeah, you just write.
So are you, are you a personwho, like, you know, okay, I'm gonna
treat this as a job. So fromnine to three or nine to one got,
you know, kids to take careof. But like, how do you divide your
day? Are you just like nightowl with it? How do you.
(32:56):
Absolutely, definitelytreating it like a job. Waking up,
do my morning walk and thenboom, I'm writing, you know, writing
by 10, writing by 10am do thatprobably till lunch. And depending
on what other obligations Ihave, I may pick up for a couple
more hours after lunch. May ormay, you know, kind of switch gears
because I'm a multi hyphenate.So switch gears into another thing
I'm doing. But, but if I'm, ifI'm, if I'm writing or if I'm on
(33:19):
deadline or if I'm, I have athing that I'm, that I'm trying to
get out, then yeah, I'm, I'mtrying to be writing by 10am and
then writing until, untillunch at least, right? And just,
and that's just kind of every,that's like an everyday thing. And
then sometimes when you getclose, I can give myself a page count.
Okay, cool. I want to, I wantto hit, you know, you know, depending
(33:39):
on where I'm at, I Try to, youknow, maybe not go anywhere from
five to 20 pages a day, youknow, so.
Yeah.
Side of 20. Okay.
20 is more on the side of whenI'm doing a lot of the rewriting.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's. That's. That, youknow, it's. It's not typical that
at the blank. At the blankpages, I'm. I'm just knocking out
20 pages.
That is very.
(34:00):
No, no, no, no. That's. That'smore. That's more like. That was
a spectrum. That's more on,like, the rewriting side. Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Okay. So you have a. I think Ican mention this album.
Of course.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it goes along with the bookor like, kind of. So he has. The
boy has an album. Come on, y'all. All right. He recorded an album,
Wrote an album.
(34:20):
Yes.
Let's go ahead and. So let's.Let's talk about that.
Absolutely. Yeah. So, youknow, it's funny you mentioned, like,
the book is told in twoperspectives. Dual perspective is
Cooper and Monique. Butthere's actually a third perspective.
Right. That is in the form ofa rap album. And the album has clues
to the murder in the book. And so.
So you didn't tell me thatwhen you sent it to me. So now I
gotta go and listen to thealbum again. You didn't tell me ahead.
(34:42):
Oh, come on.
Yeah, the album has clues tothe murder book. It's told from other.
And, you know, once you startthe album, you'll know. Exactly.
Well, you have to read thebook. It really does go together.
Okay.
You know, if you read. Ifyou're into the book, if you're at
least midway through the book,once you start the album, you'll
know whose perspective thealbum is from.
Okay. Okay.
And then you'll probably beable to pick up on some of the. But
(35:02):
they really go together. Butthe cool thing is they can exist
completely independently.Like, you don't have to have ever
heard of up and smoke a bookand still enjoy the album and vice
versa. Right. So I justthought that was a cool idea, man.
Like, dude, you just.
Yeah.
Messed up the whole. Like, Igotta go back and now re.
Listen to the whole.
Which is not a problem. Yeah,yeah, I enjoyed the album.
(35:22):
Yeah, yeah.
But what was that? So when didyou come up with the. I'm sorry,
this is.
Y' all.
It's rare that I talk to anauthor. And, like, there's a new
thing that's being introducedto me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This one. This one definitelycaught me off Guard.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well,again, it goes back to. So when I'm
on the stage and talking tothe kids, they always ask about,
can I. Oh, can you rap? Canyou rap? Da da da da. So again, I
(35:45):
realized, and I knew the typeof kid I was, I realized, like, how
powerful hip hop is and thehold that it has on kids. And so
I'm like, again, just for me,it's all about how do I open up the
doorway for literacy like wewas talking about earlier. Like,
a lot of times it's just theyhaven't picked up the right book.
And so for me, it's like a.It's like a. It's like, okay, cool.
This is something that I thinkfor my kids who only love rap and
(36:06):
they think they're too coolfor books, when they hear the music,
if. Right, and hopefully itdoes. If it connects and they understand
and they learn that there'sactually a novel to go with it, they're
gonna be curious. You're gonnabe. If I heard Dipset had a book,
you know what I'm saying, thatwent with. You know what I'm saying,
I would have been.
Can't see Cam writing a novel, but.
I would have been like, holdon, I just. What is that? You know
(36:27):
what I'm saying? What is that?So for me is that. And it also is,
you know, it's a way for me tolike, just express myself. Like I
said, I'm a multi hyphenate,so it's like, okay, how do I. How
do I drive myself crazy? Like,how do I just keep giving myself
more stuff to do? You knowwhat I'm saying? Like, so it's like,
yeah, how do I, you know, howdo I open this doorway? How do I
create something that's neverbeen done before? And. Yeah, just
(36:48):
something. Just something coolto do. Okay. So.
Yeah. So did you. When did youknow you was going to write the album
to go along.
Man, to be honest, I think Iwas like, okay, you know what? I'm
definitely going to do this.Like, when I made the decision for
sure, it was probably likeJanuary, February.
(37:11):
And how far into the processwere you with the book at that point?
Book was done.
Okay.
Yeah, the book with the bookwith the book was done, done, done.
And I had just been working onmusic because as I do.
I'm sorry, you mean this past January?
Yeah, like a few, like somemonths ago.
So you wrote an album in three.
I mean, I've been writingmusic for a long time, though. Okay,
(37:34):
that's How I started writing.
Okay?
So that. That's why I'm like,that. That, to me, was like. That
was like. That was fun. Thatwas fun to do, but I wasn't sure
I was gonna do it because.
Just.
Because, you know. And thereason it happened so late. Cause
I'm always kind of justworking, tinkering with music. But
it was sounding really good.And I'm like, yo, there's something
(37:54):
here. And then. And I thinkit's. I think it was sounding good
because I was rooted in thetheme of the book. You see what I'm
saying? Like, that's where Iwas. I wasn't just, like, writing
records or just freestyling.Like, I was. I was rooted in something.
And so for a time, I thought Imight be getting Killer Mike to ep,
like, the album. And so whenthat happened is when I turned it
(38:14):
up even another gear. Okay.Now I got to really do something,
right? It ended up nothappening, but I got amazing features
on the album. From D Smoke toFat Trail to Bodie James to. You
know what I'm saying? Davionfirst. All these guys, you know,
showed up, and I was like,okay, this is really dope. This is
a really cool. You know what Imean? It just kind of took on a life
of zone. But it wasn't untilprobably January when I was like.
(38:34):
And I remember being on thecall with my publisher maybe in February.
Yeah, it was February. It wasFebruary when I was on the call with
the publisher. When I toldthem, and that's just, what, a few
months? I was like, hey, y'all. Surprise. And they had never
seen or heard anything likethat. So they was just kind of like.
Like, what are you saying? Youcan't tell a man they can't release
music. You know what I'msaying? So, yeah, man, that was all
(38:57):
in the last few months.
Okay, this is funny. Cause nowI'm playing. Going back to conversation
we had. So I interviewed Nickfor another podcast reader of black
genes. He was telling me thestory about the music situation you
had while he was at ou.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So now I'm like, are you gonnasend a dude like, hey, that's what
(39:17):
I just did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No,man, it's all love. You know, it's
like. Like I said, I've beendoing it for such a long time. Like.
But, you know, it's alwaysbeen one of those things that's.
That's a whole differentworld. We'll get into that. But I've
been doing it as A hobby for along time. So I'm just excited to
have that project out. I'mexcited that it sounds the way it
sounds, and I'm glad you gotto take a listen. But, yeah, run
it back and you'll. And now ifyou read. Now that you read the book
(39:39):
and you. And you know, and youlisten to it, you're gonna pick up
a bunch of stuff.
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. All right. So I'm goingto try to do one last question. I
do want to open it up. Anyonehave any questions out there? Regent?
Okay. Okay. So we won't getyou guys some questions, because
I could just give it theentire time. So I think that what
(40:01):
I want to kind of leave with is.
For.
Educators. Parents, aunts,uncles, grandparents. What do you
(40:22):
tell them, like, about thisbook? And then what do you want?
Like, not only them to get outof it, but you want the young kids
who are reading it to get outof this book?
I mean, super transparent. I'mjust looking at the crowd to see.
Make sure everybody's afriendly face. I got asked this question,
a similar question on Fox 5 onFriday. And I said, on Fox 5, we
(40:48):
need to burn the White Housedown. You know, and they were kind
of like.
Like, who invited us?
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, because. Becausethe album cover is the White House
burning down. Yeah. Like,what's that about?
Yeah.
And I'm like, we need to burnit down. We need to burn this whole
thing down. And so the book isreally, you know, we're saying a
(41:08):
lot without trying to sayeverything again. That's why I always
just think about sinners. Andthe idea, like, these artists at
different levels are pullingfrom this place and saying. Saying
something really, really heavywithout saying it. But it's like,
for me, it's about, what do wewant our future to look like as a
community? Let's look at ourkids. Let's see, like, you know,
(41:30):
look at the. You know, theclimate, the state they're in. If
you're in dc, I hear all thetime, people tell, you know, I'm
in Los Angeles now, but peoplesay, Man, DC's bad, man. So much
crime. Like, kids dying. Like.So for me, it's about, okay, where
do we want to be? How seriousare we about building as a community?
Do we forever want our fate inthe hands of people who don't care
(41:50):
about us? And how do we, youknow, I'm saying, galvanize. How
do we. How do we becomerevolution? How do we raise Our kids
as revolutionaries. How do westart to put that into their brain
now? How do we start toreally, really, really, really build?
You know, that's. That's whatit is for me. It's like. That's what
I'm. It's constantly on mymind is like, we have to change this,
(42:12):
right? We have to change thiswhole system. And so the parents,
again, I'm being, like, moretransparent than I probably typically
would, but parents, educators,anybody who's on that type of time
is like, yo. But. But in a.But in a real way. Not in, like,
you know, I went to Roots. You know.
Roots.
Yeah.
Okay. And so in a real way,how are we building organizations
(42:34):
like Move, you know what I'msaying? How are we arming ourselves?
Right. Again, I'm being superfrank. And not just arming ourselves
and, you know, artillery, but,like, within the mind, right in the
heart and the spirit. How arewe arming ourselves to really, really
fight and to really make surewe build a community that can sustain.
Sustain independence, like,you know what I'm saying? Like our
(42:58):
own nation within a nation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
It's a lot.
Yeah. There's. There's so muchthere. And there was. There's a book
I was reading as well that wastalking about. It was using W. Du
Bois as one of the characters,and one of the components of the
book was he was talking about.Art needs to be about doing something.
(43:22):
I'm paraphrasing, right? Like,there's no point in creating art
if it's not inspiring peopleto be.
Active and to cause.
Yeah, to cause. So fantastic.What I want to do is we have a mic
at the front and our eventscoordinator give it up for DJ Breezy.
(43:45):
Bri. She doesn't like thatname when I say it.
It's an unofficial DJ name.When I come out with my DJ name and
y' all hear me on the ones andtwos, just know.
Boom.
Can everyone hear?
Is this.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. So you can come upfront. And I say, DJ Brianna's going
to hand you the mic for yourquestions. Please talk into the mic
(44:06):
because again, it's beingrecorded for the podcast.
Hello, everybody. Good afternoon.
You're good.
Guys, I'd like to know, Nick,what is your process for your titles?
Did you think about the titlefirst before you write your book?
Yeah.
Or do you figure it outsomewhere in the middle or the end
before you put that. Thatpolish on it?
(44:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because once you put thattitle on it, you can't change it.
Can't change it.
Yeah, yeah.
This is my cousin Dennis. Bythe way. It's his birthday.
Happy birthday, Dennis.
He know about that up inSmoke, don't you, Dennis? Oh, no,
that's my guy, man. That's my.That's. That's the big cuz, man.
He's. He is the. The guy forthis one. The initial title for this
(44:49):
was actually Riot Gear. And I.I think. I probably think about the
titles beforehand. And forthis one, my publisher asked me to
change it. Basically, theydidn't want it to be too political.
And so. And they had suggestedsomething along the lines of. They
had just said something wassmoking. Oh, they said smoke and
(45:10):
mirrors. So, like, no,respectfully, but I like the idea
of smoke. And so then I waslike, okay, again, going back to
theme. Up in Smoke. You know,again, burning the system down. So
up in Smoke. But, yeah, thankyou, Dennis, for that question. Happy
birthday, cuz.
Yeah, yeah.
Much love, brother. Hi.
(45:31):
Hey.
How you doing?
So great to meet you.
Thank you. Thank you.
My question is, there has beena change in young adult novels. I
am older than you, and I.
Know I'm older than you.
And when I was growing up, theyoung adult novels, teen novels,
were the girls wondering, isthis outfit. Does this outfit look
(45:54):
good on me? Does this lipsticklook good? The boys are wondering
whether they're gonna make thevarsity football team.
Yeah. Yeah.
But now the young adultnovels, the teens in those books
are dealing with adult issues.
Yeah.
Crime.
Yeah.
Shooting.
Yeah.
And things of that nature. Socan you explain why that is happening?
(46:18):
It's good.
Yeah.
But why that has happened inyoung adult novels?
For sure. For sure. I mean, Icould. I can explain the best to
what I could hypothesize. Youknow, I think one is this consciousness,
right? As. As collectiveconsciousness rises and we see there
are more important things totalk about for kids than just football
teams. And I was like, okay,we need to go deeper. But then also,
(46:42):
I think, experience, you know,again, I'm not sure what it was like
when you was reading those,but I know, me as a kid, I knew friends
who were shot. I knew friendswho were killed. You know, and so
it's experience, you know, Ithink, again, you know, as technology
and society has shifted overtime and more access to things you
(47:02):
shouldn't have, you know,increase. Like, kids are actually
experiencing things thatadults are going through. Like, we
just, you know, so it's kindof that thing where, like, you know,
art is reflecting, you know,reality. And we've all been kids
and, you know, You're a kid,you go through those things and you
write about it. So somecombination of those things, and
I'm sure, again, a bunch ofother things I just don't have. I
(47:24):
don't. I don't have theinsight into, but, yeah, I think
that's it. Thank you. Yeah.
I think that's a veryinteresting thing because, to be
honest, I had, like, some.Like, there was some tension for
me about that as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because, you know, that's notall that our kids are exposed to.
(47:47):
So I think the answer to itis, and I feel this way about. About
adult books and music is wejust need a broader inventory, for
sure.
Yeah.
Right. So the more books thatare being published about a variety
of topics, kids can pick andchoose what they want.
(48:09):
Right.
There are some times that, youknow, I'm reading history books.
I'm dealing with, like,reconstruction America. I'm dealing
with slavery. I'm like, youknow what? I'm done. I'm gonna jump
over here to sci fi now.
Yes.
Right. Then I have a huge runin sci fi books.
Yes.
And then I get tired of that,and then I jump over here to literary
books. Right. But if you havethe options of books written by black
(48:32):
folk, of all the differentthings that we experience, then.
You can't go wrong.
You can't go wrong.
Yeah.
And the last thing I'll say onthat, too, to that point is like,
there's also market. You know,they see, oh, the crimes are doing
well is to your point aboutmusic. Oh, the crimes are doing well.
Let's keep. Let's make sure wekeep pumping those out. You know
what I mean? So I think it'simportant. I think the point's taken
(48:52):
that you're saying is, like,let's. It needs to be just variety,
you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good to see you.
Hey, so my question for youis, where did you get your inspiration
for up in Smoke?
For sure.
Yeah.
It was. It was actually ayoung lady in Chicago. She was at
(49:13):
where I was at a school visit.She stood up and she said, how do
we combat systemic oppression?And so, you know, it kind of blew
my mind. I didn't know how toanswer it in that moment. I was kind
of put on the spot. But it didclue me into, like, the things that
they're thinking about. Andso, you know, the major. The major
themes in the book areactivism, you know, you know, what
(49:33):
it means to be a youngrevolutionary. And so. But it was
really that, just thatquestion from her that made me start
Thinking. Because I alwayscome from a place of theme, you know,
that's how I enter the story.And so that. That's what did it for
me was that question. Yeah.Thank you.
Thank you. All right, we have.
I think we have time for twomore. Okay, I see.
(49:56):
Okay. So first, thank you fortelling me about this.
Yes.
So it's not necessarily aboutup in Smoke, but my question is,
you also write middle grade,so how do you get into a mindset?
Because coming from a highschool librarian and having kids
grow through that age, how doyou figure out how am I going to
make it appropriate orrelevant for younger kids? Like,
do you start with a story oflike, I'm going to make this middle
(50:18):
grade? Or do you start writingand then you realize it's really
middle grade and just go with it?
Yeah, that's a great question.I think that comes back to kind of
what the sister was askingabout. Content, you know, themes
like. So. So my middle gradeseries was really about family and
friendship. You know, it'smuch lighter, something we can have
a little more fun with. Youknow what I mean? Which definitely
(50:39):
not doing any. Any shootingsin any middle grade books. So. Yeah,
really coming from. From aplace like, what is this about? And
if it feels like, if it'slike, about family, friendship, legacy,
you know, things that I couldtouch on and I can do it in a light,
fun way, then, then typically.Not. Not necessarily typically, but
that to me makes more sense asa middle grade versus if I'm coming
at a really heavy topic, thenI know. Okay, this is going to be
(51:01):
young adult or adult.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And again, this is. This is.This is mystery, right?
Yeah.
So, I mean, the thing is, isthat we are talking about a mystery
book which usually deals with crime.
Yeah.
Yeah.
These kind of topics. So.
Yeah.
Hey, what's up?
So we know your previousproject, your previous book, Promise
(51:23):
Boys, was going to be madeinto a show.
Yeah.
So in terms of up in Smoke, doyou know, or how do you know when
it may be looked at as anothertake, another form of entertainment?
For sure. For sure.
Yeah.
It's. That's the, that's thegoal right there is like, I would
really love to. For this. Iwould really love to do it as a feature
(51:45):
film. And man, really, it'sjust about. It's crazy because Hollywood's
in a really weird place, butyou got to. You got to get money
to make a movie. And, youknow, it's. We're reeling from Pandemic,
and then there was a bigHollywood strike and then there was
LA fires, like a bunch ofthings that happened. And then we
have the unpredictability oflike what is even happening with
(52:06):
anything, right? With, withthe people in, you know, downtown,
whatever. So it may, it makesit hard right now to. What's up,
Eli? What's up? It makes ithard right now to basically finance
films. Right? And so anyway,to answer your question is like,
I don't know, I don't know.But it's a goal of mine and we going
(52:28):
to work at it for sure nowthat the book comes out officially
Tuesday. So once it's out,I'll probably send, I'll be able
to send it out around town andsee, you know, get people to read
it and da, da, da. But that'ssurely the goal. So we'll see.
Yeah.
Well, hey guys, number one,let's thank Nick Brooks for coming
home, for doing his booklaunch here, D.C. adjacent. Yes,
(52:52):
right. And for choosingMahogany Books to be the host of
this book launch.
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(01:05):
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(01:26):
African American literatureignite your passion.
My name is Derek Young. I amone of the owners of Mahogany Books.
I am a from here, fromSoutheast dc. This is my. Thank you.
(01:47):
This is my home library, Igrew up in this area and this is
the library I used to come toall the time to do my studies, to
hang out, to read books. SoI'm super excited to come here when
we have these events becauseone, this is the place that helped
(02:08):
to form my love for readingand for books. And number two, the
fact that we get to come backhere and provide the same experience
for other people, for otherkids, for other individuals about
books that connect with themis really important to me. So like
I said, my name is DerekYoung. My wife and I founded Mahogany
(02:31):
Books in 2007 as an onlinebookstore dedicated to selling books.
Books written for by and aboutpeople of the African diaspora. In
2017 we opened up our firststore in Southeast DC. It was the
first bookstore in theSoutheast area in over 20 years.
Our second bookstore we openedin 2021 in National harbor, which
(02:52):
is five minutes down away. Andwe actually have another store coming
to you soon that we willhopefully be announcing in the next
year. Our goal is one to makebooks, black books, accessible and
available to the community. Tomake sure that everyone has a place
to connect and to get around.Other people who love books love
these stories the way that wedo. And one of the things that we
(03:15):
love to do is to host eventslike this. So I don't know if I really
need to read a bio because Ithink everyone here knows and loves
the brother Nick Brooks. ButI'm going to do it anyway just so
we have it for for posteritysake, for our podcast. Nick Brooks
is the critically acclaimedauthor of Promise Boys, an award
(03:38):
winning filmmaker fromWashington D.C. he's a 2020 graduate
of USC's TV and FilmProduction Program. His short film
Hoop Dreaming earned him theGeorge Lucas Scholar Award and was
a finalist in the Forbes 30under 30 film fest. Before becoming,
before becoming a filmmaker,Nick was an educator working with
(03:58):
at risk youth. And many of hisstories are inspired by his. By his
experiences here with thechildren and families of this community.
He is also the author of theMiddle grade series Nothing Interesting
Ever Happens to EthanFairmont. And of course, like I said,
he is the critically accameauthor of the book Promise Boys.
Please welcome Nick Brooks.
(04:33):
There we go. Thank you, Derek.I appreciate it. Thank y' all for
being here. Thank you so much.All right. Thank you, all my friends
and family. I love it.
Yes. All right, so we know wegot some heat issues here. We're
going to deal with it. That'sokay. Yeah, we're going to hang out,
we're going to have fun andhave this conversation and we're
(04:54):
going to talk about your brandnew book.
Yeah.
Up in Smoke.
Yes, yes, yes.
And we were just talking about this.
Yeah, yeah.
How you feel?
I feel good, man. You know, Iwork a lot.
Yes.
So I'm trying to. I'm steady.Trying to learn and practice living
in the moment.
Right.
Being present, not thinkingabout the next thing you know, I'm
(05:15):
sure I'm not the only personwho struggles with that. So taking
it all in, processing and. Andtrying to enjoy it. Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I'm glad you saidthat because, like, I have some.
Sometimes that same experiencewith, you know, you get into the
process of just working andgrinding and trying to make your
dreams come true, raising afamily like you, you know, trying
(05:37):
to make sure your wife andkids are good. But there are times
that we need to take a step back.
Yeah.
And really appreciate whatyou've been able to accomplish. Because
a decade, two decades ago,when you were like plotting this
stuff in your mind, you waslike, how am I going to get here?
Exactly.
And now you're here and you'redoing fantastic.
(05:59):
Thank you, brother.
Yeah.
No, you're totally right. Youhave to be grateful for the things
you asked for and when theycome, you know, you appreciate it.
And so that's something Idefinitely learned early on, is appreciation.
And so. Which is why I'm soconscious of trying to stay present
and trying to always begracious because like you said, this,
this is what we asked for, youknow, been asking for for a long
time. Just wanting to be anartist and be a writer. So. Thank
(06:20):
you. Yes.
So we were actually having. Wekind of got started late because
we was having A conversationin the back and we forgot to include
you guys in on was a reallygood conversation. So I kind of want
to pick up from there becauseone of the things you mentioned was
the thing that really kind ofbrings you back to reality is when
(06:41):
you're actually working withkids. And you was talking about an
experience you had yesterdayat Planet Word with some kids from
Anacostia. Can you talk aboutthat a little bit?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I was at Planet Word yesterdayspeaking with kids from Anacostia
High School, 10th, 11th, and12th grade. And y' all was. Y' all
been in high school, and I wasa teacher. The kids get rowdy sometimes,
especially when they on fieldtrips. Right. And so that's what
(07:04):
was happening. And I quietthem down, tell them, hey, I'm gonna
read a passage from the book,the first page, which, when you get
it, you'll see the first pageis only a couple paragraphs long.
And from the moment I startedthe first sentence on the first page,
the kids got dead quiet. Andby time I finished, I could see their
eyes. They were huge. Theywere staring at me. And they were
(07:25):
asking me for more. They werelike, please, please, read more.
Read more. And that is thepart that never gets old. That's
the part that reminds me,Right. Of, like, why we do what we
do. And in those moments, I'mable to be present, which is why
probably I'm connected to itso much because it grounds me and
it reminds me of where I'm at.But they were so excited about that
(07:48):
passage, and that let me know.Okay, this is connecting. This is
why you put in all of thiswork. So that was powerful for me.
Yeah. And I absolutely, like,appreciate that, because I think.
And we've had thisconversation, another conversation
about this is how especiallyyoung guys, young black guys, getting
little boys into books.
(08:08):
Yes.
Right.
Yes.
We have to be cognizant thatit's. We don't give them the books
that we want them to read.
Yeah.
We have to give them the booksthat they want to read.
Yeah.
Whether it's a comic book.
Yeah.
Graphic novel, a mystery book,whatever it is. If that's what attracts
them to literature, thenthat's what we have to. We give them
(08:31):
what they want. And that'swhat I loved about that experience
for you yesterday.
Yeah.
I mean, it seemscounterintuitive, but maybe it isn't.
Like, when you force them toread the thing that you think they're
supposed to read, it justmakes them resent reading, and then
they don't want to Read. Youknow what I mean? And so for me,
we might have spoke about thisbefore, but there was a book makes
me want to holler by a guy,Nathan McCall, that I read, that
(08:54):
really grabbed me, right? Andthen from there, Walter Mosley, my
aunt.
My.
My Aunt Joy, she gave me abook by. She's like, maybe try this.
Right? And she understood. Andso, yeah, before that, you know,
I'm reading Gifted Hands, and,you know, shit, I'm like, this is
boring. Yeah, I don't want toread this for. For as wonderful of
a man Malcolm X was, you know,reading it at 10:11. It's like, what
(09:18):
is this?
Right.
You know what I'm saying? So,yeah, yeah. I told her, you got to
meet the kids. Where they at?
I mean, imagine that, a kidnot wanting to do what a parent is
telling them to do.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah. You know, we'vebeen there. Right? We understand
this. So. So my first realofficial question. So I worked hard
on these questions, y' all.
Okay.
Like, I've been. I'm like,number one. I don't want to embarrass
(09:40):
myself.
Yeah, yeah.
Nick Brooks is my boy. I wantto make sure that people get a chance
to enjoy the book, but alsoreally hear from you. So I really
wanted to make sure thesequestions were going to be good.
So, first, number one, again,welcome home. Right. And one of the
things that I guess you allnotice, especially with Promise Boys
(10:01):
and Up in Smoke, is you'rewriting books that are based here,
Right. And you was doing a.You had a IG post that came out yesterday
talking about, you know,because you was on H Street.
Yep. Yep.
And talking about writing.Yeah, from this. Like, this is the
place where I'm writing thisstory from.
Yes. Yes.
Can you talk about why that'simportant to represent DC in your
(10:25):
work?
Yeah, for sure.
I guess for me, it's two mainreasons. One is because of craft.
It's like, I want to writefrom a place that feels authentic,
that feels lived in. I want towrite from a place that I understand
so that I can be sure that thewords connect with the audience or
the reader. So that's like thecraft perspective, which, of course,
I can write anything, butparticularly writing for kids, I
(10:47):
want to make sure that thisfeels real to them because they can
smell bullshit. And then thesecond reason for me is I think it's
representation. You know,part. Again, part of what I want
to do is inspire kids to writetheir own stories, to read, to become
the person that they want tobe, and So I think it's important
for me. I want to, you know,because I came from here, this is
(11:07):
my tribe, and I feel like, youknow, I want to give back to my tribe,
and I think it's particularlyimportant for boys here to see that,
because I'm going to connectwith them in a different way, with
them understanding that I'mfrom the same place they're from.
Right. So it's like, insteadof leaving that job up to somebody
else, you know, I can writeabout boys from Cleveland. I'm not
from Cleveland, you know, sothey got a guy from, you know, the
(11:27):
King, you know.
Yeah.
So that's. So it's craft, andthen it's also, you know, responsibility.
Yeah. So talk about the energythat you're infusing into the book,
like. Cause there's a. Thereis a. How many people from D.C. like,
who is from D.C. not transplant.
Okay.
(11:47):
So y' all understand, like,D.C. is its own place, right? Like,
you go to Baltimore, and I.It's different in Baltimore, different
in Philly, different in New York.
Yeah.
D.C. is its own thing.
Yeah, yeah.
So how do you. As part of the craft.
Yeah.
Like, infuse that energy,like, into the book? Because in the
first two chapters. We're notgonna do any spoilers here.
(12:08):
Yeah.
But you. There's a protestthat's happening. Yeah, Right.
Yeah.
And as I'm reading, I'm like,okay, this. This feels like something
I've been to before. And thenwhen they're dodging through the
alleyways, I'm like, okay, Ikind of know what that's like. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
So how do you work on bringingthat energy of D.C. yeah. Into the.
(12:31):
Into the book.
Into the book.
Yeah.
And the last thing I want tosay, because you had a store called
Motown, which if DC Moisturiz.
Yeah, yeah.
So just, like, how do you do that?
Yeah, yeah.
That's actually part of it.What you just mentioned. Right. Is
culture. A lot of it isculture. So culture is language.
Mo. Right. Is place. Right. SoH Street. Right. So it's really culture.
(12:52):
And how do I. You know, again,that goes back to your point of,
like, why. Right. From D.C. isbecause I. Well, I know the culture
here, and I can. I can doexactly what you're talking about.
I can make it feel lived in.How do I infuse culture? So the language,
the slang, the way they dress.Right. You know, Cooper's wearing
New Balances. Right. You know,location, H Street. Like, all of
those things play a part tobuild a world. And once you start
(13:15):
reading it, you know, and youhave that culture on the page. It
puts you in that world. Andso, yeah, that's. I think that's
it. It's just the culture. AndI'm able to write from that place
because I know the culture. Right.
Yeah.
Right. And I. So. And people,I want you guys to understand that
dc, I don't know if peoplereally understand, like, the. The
amount of, like, literaryexcellence that's coming out of dc,
(13:39):
the number of people that arewriting adult books as well as kids
books that are doing someincredible things that are DC authors.
So the fact that, you know,we're now adding Nick Brooks to that,
to that mix.
Yeah.
You know, is really, really fantastic.
Thank you.
All right, so up in Smokecenters around young kid Cooper.
Sorry, about to say Cooperflag. I'm a Duke fan. Oh, pardon
(14:03):
me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cooper King.
Cooper King.
Yeah.
And, you know, this is. So youkick it off from there.
Yeah.
Because I want you to kind ofset up the story the way you want
it.
Yeah. It's centered aroundthis kid, Cooper King, who lives
on Lane Place. Right. So ifanybody knows off the 21st over by
(14:24):
Heck and Jamal. And he's notsure where he quite fits in. You
know, he thinks he's gonna geta summer job, but the DC jobs are
cut for kids because ofcutbacks in the city, which is crazy.
Cause I wrote this way beforeDoge, right. And prophetic. And so
(14:45):
he's trying to figure out whathe wants to do. But in the midst
of that, there's an officerinvolved, shooting the life of a
young kid. Samir, right, istaken, which is really a call to
Tamir, Tamir Rice at UnionStation. Kids snatched a purse, shot
by off duty cop. There's only20 bucks in a purse. The kid lost
his life. And so there's aprotest happening down at 8th Street.
And Cooper gets roped in bysome of his friends to go against
(15:07):
his father's wishes. And atthe protest, there's a shooting,
right? Cooper flees, likeeverybody. This is, you know, mad
scramble, mad dash. He getshome, realizes and learns that there
is a body victim, murderedvictim. And on the screen, there
flashes, there are fivesuspects. And he's one of the suspects.
(15:30):
It's him and his friends onthe screen with their, you know,
with their mask that they werewearing at the protest. And now he's
extremely freaked out. And sohe works with his, his, his, his
crush, right, Monique, tofigure out what really happened.
Because one of those fivefriends has already been arrested.
And it happens to be Monique'sbig bro. They pair up to figure out
what's going on to saveCooper's life and Monique's brother
(15:53):
Jason. Yes.
Yeah.
So here's one of the things.
You want to read that. Y' allwant to read that?
Yeah, we all do.
Yeah. Yeah.
So here's one of the thingsthat, like, I picked up on, so. And
maybe it's the dad of me. Right.
So.
The thing that I noticed.Right. So Jason.
Yeah.
Who is. And the way that youdescribe him is Cooper's mentor.
(16:16):
Right. Jason is not making thebest decisions. Right. And number
one, I found that to be a veryinteresting use of words. When you
called Jason his mentor,though, Jason isn't the one that's
always making the best ofdecisions. And the reason Cooper
(16:38):
is actually in this situationis partly because he doesn't.
Want to let down his bighomie. Exactly.
So this is the dad of methinking, like, okay, how do you
keep your kids from. But canyou talk about that? Like, why was
it a dad in you writing that?What was that part for you?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Ithink, again, it goes. I think about
(16:59):
my experience growing up, andthere's certain guys in the neighborhood
that just seem cool becausethey got the car, right. They rolling
in the. The Impala orsomething. You know, back when I
was. It was the 95 or the 96impala or something like that. And
they seem cool. They got theirown change, and they seem like they're
doing what they want to do.But I always had a very strong discernment
(17:22):
and many, many instances in mylife where there was a. The guy,
the big homie saying, hey,let's go do this. And there's times
I've literally. There's timesI've gone and left early. There's
times I didn't go. But in bothscenarios, either scenario, I always
missed the part. I was neveron the screen as a suspect for a
(17:43):
murder. You know what I'msaying? I always miss that part because
I'm like, yeah. You know whatI'm saying? I'm like, okay, either
I need to leave now, or thisdoesn't feel like something I should
be a part of.
Right.
And again, so with Cooper, youknow, Cooper didn't have that discernment
in the beginning, but by theend, he did. And that's just character
arc. Right. Like, you can't beperfect from the start, but that's
where that really comes from.Again, you talk about putting those.
(18:05):
Those gems.
Yeah.
In it for kids to kind of pickup on, not beat them over the head,
but that's where that reallycame from. It's like, there's always
going to be those guys.
Right?
There's always going to beguys that you look up to. And to
be honest, you know, it.That's also a byproduct of there
not being enough guys in theneighborhood that they should be
looking up to. You know whatI'm saying? And so, yeah, there's
(18:27):
always going to be those guys,but you got to make the right choice.
Right.
And so that's what.
Yeah.
I mean, there's like. I canjust really make this whole conversation
about different themes thatare happening in this book, because
one of the other themes thatreally kind of stuck out to me was
you first talked about, was itthe summer youth employment program
(18:51):
being cut? Right?
Yep.
And Cooper's words wereessentially, like, there's hope.
It's hopeless now. It feels tight.
Like, yes.
Yeah.
I was planning my summer.Right. I was planning my summer around
this thing that was. I wasgoing to have to. I can go and work,
make a little bit of money,help my dad out.
Yep.
Right now this thing is gone,and this, like, hopelessness is now
(19:16):
kind of pervasive over me andthe rest of these guys.
Yep.
Right. And the. That wassomething that I felt deeply because
that's something we have tomake sure that we are guarding against
for our youth. Was thatsomething that was planned in terms
of setting up the plot foreverything that's gonna happen in
(19:37):
this book?
For sure. You know, the bookis, everything is kind of predicated
on the idea that there's somuch crime happening in the city
because opportunities for ourkids are being taken away. Right.
And.
Or they don't have access toopportunity. One of the two. And
so definitely it was like,okay, I was a syep kid. You know,
I was lifeguard for fouryears. And again, it was beneficial
(20:01):
in tremendous ways, probablyways I don't even know. And so I
just imagine, okay, this beingtaken away, and then, you know, the
climbing was just different.Like, these kids got pistols 14,
you know what I'm saying? Sofor me, it was about, okay, I understand
that this is because there'snot enough opportunity. Like, that's
(20:21):
just fact. And so I wanted to.Again, it's just one of those things
I want to put in a book thathits close to home. So just exactly
what you said. Then you readit and say, okay, we need to start
providing more opportunities.You know what I'm saying? It's all
about just Putting thesethings in books for people to recognize
and say, oh, this is a problemhere in this world. How can we fix
this in our real world? Right.This is a mirror. I'm holding up
a mirror and being like, yo,this is what's happening.
(20:43):
Yeah.
So we need to do somethingabout it. So.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that's what I love about.I'm not going to lie. I love. I'm
a 47 year old man who lovesreading young adult and young reader
books.
Yeah.
Because like, this is contentthat we, as adults, we think we,
we forget what we don't know.Right. That experience that we've
(21:05):
had 30, 40 years ago. Right.Of how a kid feels when they're 15,
16, 17.
Yeah.
Like sometimes we need to bereminded of that. Like, okay, you
know what, maybe this is whyhe's just on his phone and don't
go outside or whatever becauselike, there's nothing out there for
me.
Yeah.
And these are conversationsthat note, if you read a book with
(21:26):
your kid. Right.
Yeah.
These are conversations thatyou guys can have to maybe figure
out, you know, instead ofthose one word answers that your
kids give you.
Yes.
Like, how are they reallyfeeling about the things that are
happening?
Yes, yes.
I think that's. This is agreat book to read if you have a
teenager, you know, it's agreat. I think that's really smart
because my hope is thatthey'll be really into it. Right.
(21:50):
And then y' all will reallyhave things to talk about and really
can dialogue. So I thinkthat's. That's beautiful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome.
So I did that with my son fora little bit and I realized that
he reads so much faster than Ido. And then it was being held over
my head when he was like, youstill reading?
Yeah. Yeah.
You ain't finished?
Yeah, yeah.
You know what? I don'tappreciate the way you make.
Me feel right now checkingyou. Yeah.
(22:11):
I'm feeling a littleinadequate right now, but my 16 year
old, like, no.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh, my goodness.
That's beautiful. That's. Ithink that's very smart. Okay.
All right, all right, so, sowe talked about. So I want to kind
of like, kind of dive deeperinto this idea of the message and
(22:32):
the mystery. Okay. So youdefinitely. You write these books
now. You have this, who done it.
Yep.
Right?
Yeah.
And these kids are, you know,working their way through this story,
trying to figure out like,what happened.
Yeah.
But it's the message piecethat I think continues to resonate
(22:53):
with me that, you know, again,it's, it's. How do you trick them
into learning? And you wasjust kind of talking like you used
the word Inception, which, youknow, if you guys love movies, like,
Inception is a great thing.Like kind of talk about how you trying
to Inception these kids intolike into learning.
No, absolutely. And I alsobrought up Sinners. I don't know
if people here have seen themovie Sinners, but it feels like
(23:17):
the whole, the whole world hasseen it. But Ryan does such a great
job of doing exactly whatyou're talking about. Right. Whereas
a vampire movie, you know,some people say, oh, this is Dust
till dawn.
Right.
But far, far more importantthan Dusto Dawn. Right. It's all
of these themes and messageswhich is, I'm not going to give too
much away, but just likelittle quips of dialogue. And so
(23:38):
it's similar in that way whereit's like, I just want to put the
ideas there. I don't want toexplore the idea. I want you to explore
the idea like you, you explorethe idea. But I'm going to put the
idea for you to think about.And that's, I think that's the trick.
And you put the idea incontext, right? And that context
you make entertaining. So it'slike, okay, the idea of there not
(23:59):
being any opportunities thatleads to these kids going down to
this protest and it, you know,be causing chaos and there's a murder,
like in that context, then itsticks with you. Like that happened
because they cut thoseprograms. We can't cut program. You
know what I mean? So it'sabout taking these ideas. We don't
talk about syep no more afterwe do it, right? After we. But after
(24:20):
that idea's planted, it stuckwith you. It's like, oh, this is.
Was. This is the motivation.
Yeah.
So that's what it's about isputting the idea in, in a context
that's. That keeps the, theaudience glued and then let them
do the digging for it. Right?And then that's the Inception piece.
It's just like the, the candyand the medicine type of thing. And
so for me that's importantbecause I'm not again, I. And it's
(24:42):
also like a taste slash likepreference. Like I personally don't
like watching things that arebeating me over there. Like, I don't
like consuming that type of. Ijust don't like it. You know, to
be honest, it doesn't respectthe audience. It doesn't respect
the audience. It's like, Ineed to spoon feed you just because
you're not. You're. You're notcapable of understanding it or, you
know, having the wherewithalto dive into yourself. You know,
(25:03):
I want to be respected as anaudience. Right. So it's like. I
think that's part of it too.Let me just give it to you. Because,
you know, if you. If you. Ifyou're here, then I know you're going
to do the work to get the restof the way.
No, no, no, I definitely likethat. Like, especially, you know,
you're writing for youngreaders, for young adults. We have
to respect their own intelligence.
Yes.
Right.
Their own wisdom. They are smart.
Yeah.
Very smart.
Yeah, yeah.
(25:24):
Not to cut you off, but I'llsay one quick thing. A lot of this,
these themes came out of aconversation I had with a young person.
I was in, actually, Chicago,which is, you know, the book starts
with a Fred Hampton quote, butI was in Chicago and a young lady
stood up at a school and shesaid, how do we combat systemic oppression?
Like, you know, a 10th grader.And it's like. I was like, damn,
(25:44):
like, they are ready to talkabout these things. And I didn't
even have a real answer forher because it was. It caught me
so off guard. But that. Thatstuck with me. And that's what, again,
meeting them. Where you at?So, like, oh, bet.
Yeah.
Like, let's go there. Let's,like, start to talk about revolution
and liberation and activism,but do it in a way that feels like
a murder mystery. Right?
Yeah.
Right.
Okay. So, yeah, imagine thatthese kids are actually smart, intelligent,
(26:07):
listening to their parents.Gonna have, you know, deep. She's
just laughing. She's like. Sheknows. She's like, I'm trying to
tell you. Okay, yeah. Let'shave this conversation. I'm with
you.
Yeah.
And then. And then, you know,when we listen, we'll be so surprised.
Like, yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
(26:27):
Like you.
Yeah.
You were actually listening to me.
Yeah.
Right. You weren't justrolling your eyes, you were actually
listening to me and using thisin your life somehow. Love that.
Okay, so the co. Lead of the book.
Yes.
Is Monique.
Monique, right. So.
So I'm actually kind ofcurious. When did you decide to.
(26:49):
Was she always a part of thebook? And why did you find it necessary
to add a female colleague? Andwhat were you wanting her to bring?
Yeah. To the book.
Absolutely. Well, it's. It's first.
Yes.
She was always a part of thebook. And Promise. And Promise Boys.
(27:10):
One of the aspects peopleloved a lot were JB and if, you know,
Promise Boys. There were Thesetwo characters, JB and Kiana, JB
was one of the lead Promiseboys and Kiana was a girl from his
neighborhood. And people lovetheir dynamic. Like, you know, particularly
the young, the young femaleaudience. They like, oh, we want
more Kiana, we want moreKiana. And that, that, that spoke
to me. I said, dope, y' alllike that. Okay. So that was part
(27:32):
of it, making it this twohander. And then also like this.
Will they, won't they romance?You know what I mean? Again, just
meeting the kids where they, Isaw that that was something they
gravitated towards. I said,okay, maybe, maybe I could put more
romance in my books. Right.Like, so that was part of it. And
then also I needed duality.Cooper, again, I don't want to give
(27:52):
too much away, but, butCooper, I really don't want to give
this because this is like atwist in the story. But Cooper and
Monique were at the protestfor very different reasons. You know
what I'm saying? And so again,talk about character art. I needed
them both to have an art.Monique is also very, she starts
very self righteous. Right.She thinks her way is the right way,
(28:15):
her way of activism is theright way to do it. Right. And so
I wanted them to basically beagain, like each other's duality
where they can help each otherhave a complete art and bring them
to a place where maybe it'smore nuanced, it's not so black and
white, Right. In the way thatthey start. So that was really it.
And then again, like I said,the romance. So it was really the
(28:35):
romance. You know, I thinkthat was important. I think having
them both be like them bothlearn from each other, change each
other's character and thenit's just like cute and fun, you
know what I mean? To have likethis two handed with this young boy
and his young girl.
Yeah.
Like solving his murder.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I absolutely like thatbecause the term I learned for this
(28:57):
book is dual pov.
Yes.
Right. Like, I guess I've beenreading dual POV books for a while
now. Didn't realize it waslike an actual. So can you tell the
audience a little bit about that?
Yeah.
What?
The dual POV is just a bookwritten from two perspectives. Promise
Boys was written from threemain perspectives. But yeah, it's
(29:17):
just.
Yeah, that's what it is.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because so when you, when youanswer that question and you talk
about everything is not blackand white.
Yes.
There's a lot of gray.
Yes.
And stuff.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And there are times that likeyou said, we think. Yeah, our way
is the only way.
Yes.
But having this other person.
(29:37):
Yes, yes.
It helps give some. Someperspective. Right. And the other
thing, of course, is. And thisis just good tension is there are
secrets that they're. Thatthey're keeping from each other.
Right. So that's the otherthing about, you know, multi perspective.
It's like you can havecharacters, keep secrets, hide the
ball, be dishonest. Right. Andthose things create tension for the
story. So that's also like,just like a craft thing, you know?
(29:59):
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
This is dope. This is like awriters creative writers 101 type
of. I'm learning a lot here.Okay. I won't be writing no book.
That's a lot of discipline.That's a lot of real. How long did
it take you?
This took about a year.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's about a year from.From, you know, from conception to.
(30:19):
To out, to finish.
Okay.
So I wasn't going to ask thisquestion yet.
Yeah.
In the. The, like, how I hadthings ordered, but it just kind
of brought me there.
Yeah.
Like, what is your. Like, whatis your process?
Yeah.
So once you identify this isthe story, like you met the young
lady in Chicago.
(30:40):
Yeah.
She kind of like dropped thisthing in your head, like, from that
point to getting through this.
Yeah.
What. What is the process?
For sure. Yeah.
It Usually in books, for sure.The way it's been for me is always
start with theme. Right.What's the thing? What do I want
this to be about ultimately?Then from there is the way in. Or
like the inciting incident or,you know, what's the thing that kicks
(31:02):
off the plot? So I'm like,okay, I want to do something around
activism, around being a youngrevolutionary. What can ha. Okay,
I do murder mystery. How do Iget in that world? Protest. Okay,
Protest. What would happen ata. Oh, okay. Murder at a protest.
You know what I mean? It'sjust. It's just. And they call it,
you know, the way in. So Ifigure out the way in, and then from
there I outline. Okay, well.And then I decide on my character.
(31:25):
Right. My protagonist. Okay,here's my way in. Protest. Murder.
Boom. I got a mystery right inthe world. Now. Who do we enter?
Whose eyes do we enter thestory through? Who's the best person
for this story? And thenthat's where you come up with, like,
these arcs of, like. Okay, youknow, again, I don't want to give
too much away about Cooper andwhy he's there, but how do we take
him from one place to anotherplace. Right. And so I don't want
(31:48):
to get in the minutiae of ittoo much, but from there I just outline
the story. Like, what's theplot? Literally beginning, middle,
end? Like, what generallyhappens? Who's my villain? You know
what I mean? Those type ofthings. And then once I have an outline
that I feel good about, thenI'll just start putting words on
the page and, and go for it,you know what I mean? And then, and
then, and then there's a tonof, you know, rewriting after that.
(32:10):
That's, which is where Ireally have the fun. The putting
on the words on the page islike the really hard for some people.
For me, that's the, that's thepart that's like hardest to just.
Do you talk about that.Discipline. That's. For me, that's
the part that's hardest to bedisciplined about. Because you just
stand at a blank page andthese words are supposed to appear,
you know, 60 to 80,000 wordssupposed to appear. So you're like,
okay, you know what I'msaying? But then, but the rewriting
(32:33):
is where I have a lot of funbecause the words are already there
now. I'm just like massaging.But yeah, you just write.
So are you, are you a personwho, like, you know, okay, I'm gonna
treat this as a job. So fromnine to three or nine to one got,
you know, kids to take careof. But like, how do you divide your
day? Are you just like nightowl with it? How do you.
(32:56):
Absolutely, definitelytreating it like a job. Waking up,
do my morning walk and thenboom, I'm writing, you know, writing
by 10, writing by 10am do thatprobably till lunch. And depending
on what other obligations Ihave, I may pick up for a couple
more hours after lunch. May ormay, you know, kind of switch gears
because I'm a multi hyphenate.So switch gears into another thing
I'm doing. But, but if I'm, ifI'm, if I'm writing or if I'm on
(33:19):
deadline or if I'm, I have athing that I'm, that I'm trying to
get out, then yeah, I'm, I'mtrying to be writing by 10am and
then writing until, untillunch at least, right? And just,
and that's just kind of every,that's like an everyday thing. And
then sometimes when you getclose, I can give myself a page count.
Okay, cool. I want to, I wantto hit, you know, you know, depending
(33:39):
on where I'm at, I Try to, youknow, maybe not go anywhere from
five to 20 pages a day, youknow, so.
Yeah.
Side of 20. Okay.
20 is more on the side of whenI'm doing a lot of the rewriting.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's. That's. That, youknow, it's. It's not typical that
at the blank. At the blankpages, I'm. I'm just knocking out
20 pages.
That is very.
(34:00):
No, no, no, no. That's. That'smore. That's more like. That was
a spectrum. That's more on,like, the rewriting side. Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Okay. So you have a. I think Ican mention this album.
Of course.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it goes along with the bookor like, kind of. So he has. The
boy has an album. Come on, y'all. All right. He recorded an album,
Wrote an album.
(34:20):
Yes.
Let's go ahead and. So let's.Let's talk about that.
Absolutely. Yeah. So, youknow, it's funny you mentioned, like,
the book is told in twoperspectives. Dual perspective is
Cooper and Monique. Butthere's actually a third perspective.
Right. That is in the form ofa rap album. And the album has clues
to the murder in the book. And so.
So you didn't tell me thatwhen you sent it to me. So now I
gotta go and listen to thealbum again. You didn't tell me ahead.
(34:42):
Oh, come on.
Yeah, the album has clues tothe murder book. It's told from other.
And, you know, once you startthe album, you'll know. Exactly.
Well, you have to read thebook. It really does go together.
Okay.
You know, if you read. Ifyou're into the book, if you're at
least midway through the book,once you start the album, you'll
know whose perspective thealbum is from.
Okay. Okay.
And then you'll probably beable to pick up on some of the. But
(35:02):
they really go together. Butthe cool thing is they can exist
completely independently.Like, you don't have to have ever
heard of up and smoke a bookand still enjoy the album and vice
versa. Right. So I justthought that was a cool idea, man.
Like, dude, you just.
Yeah.
Messed up the whole. Like, Igotta go back and now re.
Listen to the whole.
Which is not a problem. Yeah,yeah, I enjoyed the album.
(35:22):
Yeah, yeah.
But what was that? So when didyou come up with the. I'm sorry,
this is.
Y' all.
It's rare that I talk to anauthor. And, like, there's a new
thing that's being introducedto me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This one. This one definitelycaught me off Guard.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well,again, it goes back to. So when I'm
on the stage and talking tothe kids, they always ask about,
can I. Oh, can you rap? Canyou rap? Da da da da. So again, I
(35:45):
realized, and I knew the typeof kid I was, I realized, like, how
powerful hip hop is and thehold that it has on kids. And so
I'm like, again, just for me,it's all about how do I open up the
doorway for literacy like wewas talking about earlier. Like,
a lot of times it's just theyhaven't picked up the right book.
And so for me, it's like a.It's like a. It's like, okay, cool.
This is something that I thinkfor my kids who only love rap and
(36:06):
they think they're too coolfor books, when they hear the music,
if. Right, and hopefully itdoes. If it connects and they understand
and they learn that there'sactually a novel to go with it, they're
gonna be curious. You're gonnabe. If I heard Dipset had a book,
you know what I'm saying, thatwent with. You know what I'm saying,
I would have been.
Can't see Cam writing a novel, but.
I would have been like, holdon, I just. What is that? You know
(36:27):
what I'm saying? What is that?So for me is that. And it also is,
you know, it's a way for me tolike, just express myself. Like I
said, I'm a multi hyphenate,so it's like, okay, how do I. How
do I drive myself crazy? Like,how do I just keep giving myself
more stuff to do? You knowwhat I'm saying? Like, so it's like,
yeah, how do I, you know, howdo I open this doorway? How do I
create something that's neverbeen done before? And. Yeah, just
(36:48):
something. Just something coolto do. Okay. So.
Yeah. So did you. When did youknow you was going to write the album
to go along.
Man, to be honest, I think Iwas like, okay, you know what? I'm
definitely going to do this.Like, when I made the decision for
sure, it was probably likeJanuary, February.
(37:11):
And how far into the processwere you with the book at that point?
Book was done.
Okay.
Yeah, the book with the bookwith the book was done, done, done.
And I had just been working onmusic because as I do.
I'm sorry, you mean this past January?
Yeah, like a few, like somemonths ago.
So you wrote an album in three.
I mean, I've been writingmusic for a long time, though. Okay,
(37:34):
that's How I started writing.
Okay?
So that. That's why I'm like,that. That, to me, was like. That
was like. That was fun. Thatwas fun to do, but I wasn't sure
I was gonna do it because.
Just.
Because, you know. And thereason it happened so late. Cause
I'm always kind of justworking, tinkering with music. But
it was sounding really good.And I'm like, yo, there's something
(37:54):
here. And then. And I thinkit's. I think it was sounding good
because I was rooted in thetheme of the book. You see what I'm
saying? Like, that's where Iwas. I wasn't just, like, writing
records or just freestyling.Like, I was. I was rooted in something.
And so for a time, I thought Imight be getting Killer Mike to ep,
like, the album. And so whenthat happened is when I turned it
(38:14):
up even another gear. Okay.Now I got to really do something,
right? It ended up nothappening, but I got amazing features
on the album. From D Smoke toFat Trail to Bodie James to. You
know what I'm saying? Davionfirst. All these guys, you know,
showed up, and I was like,okay, this is really dope. This is
a really cool. You know what Imean? It just kind of took on a life
of zone. But it wasn't untilprobably January when I was like.
(38:34):
And I remember being on thecall with my publisher maybe in February.
Yeah, it was February. It wasFebruary when I was on the call with
the publisher. When I toldthem, and that's just, what, a few
months? I was like, hey, y'all. Surprise. And they had never
seen or heard anything likethat. So they was just kind of like.
Like, what are you saying? Youcan't tell a man they can't release
music. You know what I'msaying? So, yeah, man, that was all
(38:57):
in the last few months.
Okay, this is funny. Cause nowI'm playing. Going back to conversation
we had. So I interviewed Nickfor another podcast reader of black
genes. He was telling me thestory about the music situation you
had while he was at ou.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So now I'm like, are you gonnasend a dude like, hey, that's what
(39:17):
I just did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No,man, it's all love. You know, it's
like. Like I said, I've beendoing it for such a long time. Like.
But, you know, it's alwaysbeen one of those things that's.
That's a whole differentworld. We'll get into that. But I've
been doing it as A hobby for along time. So I'm just excited to
have that project out. I'mexcited that it sounds the way it
sounds, and I'm glad you gotto take a listen. But, yeah, run
it back and you'll. And now ifyou read. Now that you read the book
(39:39):
and you. And you know, and youlisten to it, you're gonna pick up
a bunch of stuff.
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. All right. So I'm goingto try to do one last question. I
do want to open it up. Anyonehave any questions out there? Regent?
Okay. Okay. So we won't getyou guys some questions, because
I could just give it theentire time. So I think that what
(40:01):
I want to kind of leave with is.
For.
Educators. Parents, aunts,uncles, grandparents. What do you
(40:22):
tell them, like, about thisbook? And then what do you want?
Like, not only them to get outof it, but you want the young kids
who are reading it to get outof this book?
I mean, super transparent. I'mjust looking at the crowd to see.
Make sure everybody's afriendly face. I got asked this question,
a similar question on Fox 5 onFriday. And I said, on Fox 5, we
(40:48):
need to burn the White Housedown. You know, and they were kind
of like.
Like, who invited us?
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, because. Becausethe album cover is the White House
burning down. Yeah. Like,what's that about?
Yeah.
And I'm like, we need to burnit down. We need to burn this whole
thing down. And so the book isreally, you know, we're saying a
(41:08):
lot without trying to sayeverything again. That's why I always
just think about sinners. Andthe idea, like, these artists at
different levels are pullingfrom this place and saying. Saying
something really, really heavywithout saying it. But it's like,
for me, it's about, what do wewant our future to look like as a
community? Let's look at ourkids. Let's see, like, you know,
(41:30):
look at the. You know, theclimate, the state they're in. If
you're in dc, I hear all thetime, people tell, you know, I'm
in Los Angeles now, but peoplesay, Man, DC's bad, man. So much
crime. Like, kids dying. Like.So for me, it's about, okay, where
do we want to be? How seriousare we about building as a community?
Do we forever want our fate inthe hands of people who don't care
(41:50):
about us? And how do we, youknow, I'm saying, galvanize. How
do we. How do we becomerevolution? How do we raise Our kids
as revolutionaries. How do westart to put that into their brain
now? How do we start toreally, really, really, really build?
You know, that's. That's whatit is for me. It's like. That's what
I'm. It's constantly on mymind is like, we have to change this,
(42:12):
right? We have to change thiswhole system. And so the parents,
again, I'm being, like, moretransparent than I probably typically
would, but parents, educators,anybody who's on that type of time
is like, yo. But. But in a.But in a real way. Not in, like,
you know, I went to Roots. You know.
Roots.
Yeah.
Okay. And so in a real way,how are we building organizations
(42:34):
like Move, you know what I'msaying? How are we arming ourselves?
Right. Again, I'm being superfrank. And not just arming ourselves
and, you know, artillery, but,like, within the mind, right in the
heart and the spirit. How arewe arming ourselves to really, really
fight and to really make surewe build a community that can sustain.
Sustain independence, like,you know what I'm saying? Like our
(42:58):
own nation within a nation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
It's a lot.
Yeah. There's. There's so muchthere. And there was. There's a book
I was reading as well that wastalking about. It was using W. Du
Bois as one of the characters,and one of the components of the
book was he was talking about.Art needs to be about doing something.
(43:22):
I'm paraphrasing, right? Like,there's no point in creating art
if it's not inspiring peopleto be.
Active and to cause.
Yeah, to cause. So fantastic.What I want to do is we have a mic
at the front and our eventscoordinator give it up for DJ Breezy.
(43:45):
Bri. She doesn't like thatname when I say it.
It's an unofficial DJ name.When I come out with my DJ name and
y' all hear me on the ones andtwos, just know.
Boom.
Can everyone hear?
Is this.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. So you can come upfront. And I say, DJ Brianna's going
to hand you the mic for yourquestions. Please talk into the mic
(44:06):
because again, it's beingrecorded for the podcast.
Hello, everybody. Good afternoon.
You're good.
Guys, I'd like to know, Nick,what is your process for your titles?
Did you think about the titlefirst before you write your book?
Yeah.
Or do you figure it outsomewhere in the middle or the end
before you put that. Thatpolish on it?
(44:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because once you put thattitle on it, you can't change it.
Can't change it.
Yeah, yeah.
This is my cousin Dennis. Bythe way. It's his birthday.
Happy birthday, Dennis.
He know about that up inSmoke, don't you, Dennis? Oh, no,
that's my guy, man. That's my.That's. That's the big cuz, man.
He's. He is the. The guy forthis one. The initial title for this
(44:49):
was actually Riot Gear. And I.I think. I probably think about the
titles beforehand. And forthis one, my publisher asked me to
change it. Basically, theydidn't want it to be too political.
And so. And they had suggestedsomething along the lines of. They
had just said something wassmoking. Oh, they said smoke and
(45:10):
mirrors. So, like, no,respectfully, but I like the idea
of smoke. And so then I waslike, okay, again, going back to
theme. Up in Smoke. You know,again, burning the system down. So
up in Smoke. But, yeah, thankyou, Dennis, for that question. Happy
birthday, cuz.
Yeah, yeah.
Much love, brother. Hi.
(45:31):
Hey.
How you doing?
So great to meet you.
Thank you. Thank you.
My question is, there has beena change in young adult novels. I
am older than you, and I.
Know I'm older than you.
And when I was growing up, theyoung adult novels, teen novels,
were the girls wondering, isthis outfit. Does this outfit look
(45:54):
good on me? Does this lipsticklook good? The boys are wondering
whether they're gonna make thevarsity football team.
Yeah. Yeah.
But now the young adultnovels, the teens in those books
are dealing with adult issues.
Yeah.
Crime.
Yeah.
Shooting.
Yeah.
And things of that nature. Socan you explain why that is happening?
(46:18):
It's good.
Yeah.
But why that has happened inyoung adult novels?
For sure. For sure. I mean, Icould. I can explain the best to
what I could hypothesize. Youknow, I think one is this consciousness,
right? As. As collectiveconsciousness rises and we see there
are more important things totalk about for kids than just football
teams. And I was like, okay,we need to go deeper. But then also,
(46:42):
I think, experience, you know,again, I'm not sure what it was like
when you was reading those,but I know, me as a kid, I knew friends
who were shot. I knew friendswho were killed. You know, and so
it's experience, you know, Ithink, again, you know, as technology
and society has shifted overtime and more access to things you
(47:02):
shouldn't have, you know,increase. Like, kids are actually
experiencing things thatadults are going through. Like, we
just, you know, so it's kindof that thing where, like, you know,
art is reflecting, you know,reality. And we've all been kids
and, you know, You're a kid,you go through those things and you
write about it. So somecombination of those things, and
I'm sure, again, a bunch ofother things I just don't have. I
(47:24):
don't. I don't have theinsight into, but, yeah, I think
that's it. Thank you. Yeah.
I think that's a veryinteresting thing because, to be
honest, I had, like, some.Like, there was some tension for
me about that as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because, you know, that's notall that our kids are exposed to.
(47:47):
So I think the answer to itis, and I feel this way about. About
adult books and music is wejust need a broader inventory, for
sure.
Yeah.
Right. So the more books thatare being published about a variety
of topics, kids can pick andchoose what they want.
(48:09):
Right.
There are some times that, youknow, I'm reading history books.
I'm dealing with, like,reconstruction America. I'm dealing
with slavery. I'm like, youknow what? I'm done. I'm gonna jump
over here to sci fi now.
Yes.
Right. Then I have a huge runin sci fi books.
Yes.
And then I get tired of that,and then I jump over here to literary
books. Right. But if you havethe options of books written by black
(48:32):
folk, of all the differentthings that we experience, then.
You can't go wrong.
You can't go wrong.
Yeah.
And the last thing I'll say onthat, too, to that point is like,
there's also market. You know,they see, oh, the crimes are doing
well is to your point aboutmusic. Oh, the crimes are doing well.
Let's keep. Let's make sure wekeep pumping those out. You know
what I mean? So I think it'simportant. I think the point's taken
(48:52):
that you're saying is, like,let's. It needs to be just variety,
you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good to see you.
Hey, so my question for youis, where did you get your inspiration
for up in Smoke?
For sure.
Yeah.
It was. It was actually ayoung lady in Chicago. She was at
(49:13):
where I was at a school visit.She stood up and she said, how do
we combat systemic oppression?And so, you know, it kind of blew
my mind. I didn't know how toanswer it in that moment. I was kind
of put on the spot. But it didclue me into, like, the things that
they're thinking about. Andso, you know, the major. The major
themes in the book areactivism, you know, you know, what
(49:33):
it means to be a youngrevolutionary. And so. But it was
really that, just thatquestion from her that made me start
Thinking. Because I alwayscome from a place of theme, you know,
that's how I enter the story.And so that. That's what did it for
me was that question. Yeah.Thank you.
Thank you. All right, we have.
I think we have time for twomore. Okay, I see.
(49:56):
Okay. So first, thank you fortelling me about this.
Yes.
So it's not necessarily aboutup in Smoke, but my question is,
you also write middle grade,so how do you get into a mindset?
Because coming from a highschool librarian and having kids
grow through that age, how doyou figure out how am I going to
make it appropriate orrelevant for younger kids? Like,
do you start with a story oflike, I'm going to make this middle
(50:18):
grade? Or do you start writingand then you realize it's really
middle grade and just go with it?
Yeah, that's a great question.I think that comes back to kind of
what the sister was askingabout. Content, you know, themes
like. So. So my middle gradeseries was really about family and
friendship. You know, it'smuch lighter, something we can have
a little more fun with. Youknow what I mean? Which definitely
(50:39):
not doing any. Any shootingsin any middle grade books. So. Yeah,
really coming from. From aplace like, what is this about? And
if it feels like, if it'slike, about family, friendship, legacy,
you know, things that I couldtouch on and I can do it in a light,
fun way, then, then typically.Not. Not necessarily typically, but
that to me makes more sense asa middle grade versus if I'm coming
at a really heavy topic, thenI know. Okay, this is going to be
(51:01):
young adult or adult.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And again, this is. This is.This is mystery, right?
Yeah.
So, I mean, the thing is, isthat we are talking about a mystery
book which usually deals with crime.
Yeah.
Yeah.
These kind of topics. So.
Yeah.
Hey, what's up?
So we know your previousproject, your previous book, Promise
(51:23):
Boys, was going to be madeinto a show.
Yeah.
So in terms of up in Smoke, doyou know, or how do you know when
it may be looked at as anothertake, another form of entertainment?
For sure. For sure.
Yeah.
It's. That's the, that's thegoal right there is like, I would
really love to. For this. Iwould really love to do it as a feature
(51:45):
film. And man, really, it'sjust about. It's crazy because Hollywood's
in a really weird place, butyou got to. You got to get money
to make a movie. And, youknow, it's. We're reeling from Pandemic,
and then there was a bigHollywood strike and then there was
LA fires, like a bunch ofthings that happened. And then we
have the unpredictability oflike what is even happening with
(52:06):
anything, right? With, withthe people in, you know, downtown,
whatever. So it may, it makesit hard right now to. What's up,
Eli? What's up? It makes ithard right now to basically finance
films. Right? And so anyway,to answer your question is like,
I don't know, I don't know.But it's a goal of mine and we going
(52:28):
to work at it for sure nowthat the book comes out officially
Tuesday. So once it's out,I'll probably send, I'll be able
to send it out around town andsee, you know, get people to read
it and da, da, da. But that'ssurely the goal. So we'll see.
Yeah.
Well, hey guys, number one,let's thank Nick Brooks for coming
home, for doing his booklaunch here, D.C. adjacent. Yes,
(52:52):
right. And for choosingMahogany Books to be the host of
this book launch.
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