August 23, 2024 • 57 mins
In this episode, New York Times Bestselling author Tomi Adeyemi and actress Zai Silla delve into a rich conversation about Children of Anguish and Anarchy, the final installment in the Legacy of Orisha trilogy. They discuss the emotional depths of Tomi's characters, the influence of African mythology, and the personal experiences that shape her storytelling. Tomi also shares insights on the challenges and triumphs of writing through trauma, the significance of communal grief, and the transformative power of literature. The discussion finally touches on the expanding universe of the series, the upcoming movie adaptation, and the musical inspirations that complement her narratives.
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(00:00):
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(00:21):
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(00:46):
How y'all feeling?
How
are you all feeling?
I am so pumped.
Let me calm down.
First of all, let me calm down.
I am so pumped up for a number of reasons.
And I wrote my script down so Iwon't forget anything because it is
important to me to read what someof these, both, um, both of these
(01:09):
young ladies have accomplished.
But first, as she mentioned, I amRamunda Lark Young, co owner of Mahogany
Books with my amazing husband, DerekYoung, somewhere out here, somewhere.
Yes, I see you.
Yes.
Yes, yes.
We just celebrated our22nd wedding anniversary.
Yes, yes.
(01:30):
22 years married and 17 years inbusiness making black books accessible.
That's what we're doing.
Yes, yes, yes.
Just a little bit about us.
It has, we've been working for 17 years.
We started in our one bedroomapartment in Alexandria, Virginia.
But we wanted people to have access toblack books no matter where they lived.
(01:50):
We didn't want to leave that tochance for somebody else to decide.
That's what we're doing.
So Mahogany Books was born.
We have a location at NationalHarbor, one in Anacostia, and a
little footprint in National Airport.
So this is something very serious to us.
And when we look at the audience andsee all of your faces that show up
time and time again for these moments,these pieces of community that bring us
together, We don't take that lightly.
(02:11):
So please give yourselfa round of applause.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Really quickly.
I want to give a big shout out to ourvenue host, the amazing DC Public Library.
Please help.
Yes.
Clap it up for them.
Yes.
And then additionally, really quickly,the DC Public Library Foundation,
which I'm a proud board member,helped to provide some of the books
(02:34):
for tonight's audience members.
DC Public Library Foundation.
Yes, yes, yes.
And then lastly, before I introduceour, our amazing, uh, moderator, if
you're taking photos, please tag us.
Please tag Tomi, please tagZai, please tag Mahogany Books.
Those pictures mean somuch to so many people.
Us and other people who, who wished theycould have been here, but y'all got the
(02:56):
best seats in the house, I'm just saying.
But take pictures.
Um, so anyway, let's get into it.
Zai Silla, celebrating black storiesacross film and fiction, literature,
literature, Zai, an accomplishedactress and creator, is on a
mission to amplify black narratives.
Under the platform name, Zai Rambles, sheweaves magic across screens and pages.
(03:17):
From reaching millions with her Africanmythology recommendations, to championing
black characters in anime and Netflix,Zai is a force to be reckoned with.
Inspired by Issa Rae's mantra, she'srooting for everybody black, yes,
recently she starred in The Kitchen.
Her presence at the NAACP ImageAwards and the BAFTA Ceremonies
(03:40):
added to her illustrious journey.
Y'all, please help me welcome to the stageour Dope Conversation host, Xy Scylla!
Hey!
Yes!
Hey!
Absolutely, absolutely.
Hello!
Hey!
Yes!
(04:00):
Right?
Yes, give it up!
So let's, okay, everybody pause.
Calm down, calm down.
Let's get into it.
We are here for our featuredauthor this evening.
She was named one of Time Magazine's 100Most Influential People, Tomi Adeyemi.
She is a Hugo and Nebula awardwinning Nigerian American writer and
(04:20):
storyteller, yes, based in New York.
After graduating from Harvard University,
y'all didn't hear me say that, fromHarvard University, With honors and
a degree in English literature, shealso studied West African mythology,
religion, and culture in Salvador, Brazil.
Her first novel, everybodyknows what the first novel is.
(04:41):
Who knows what the, let mehear you on the count of three.
One, two, three.
Yes.
Okay.
We're in the right building.
Yes.
Her first novel Children of Bloodand Bone debuted at number one on
the New York Times bestsellers list.
It's highly anticipated sequelChildren of Virtue and Vengeance
also debuted at number one onthe New York Times bestsellers.
Tomi's Legacy of Orisha Trilogy,um, is being developed into a
(05:07):
feature film by Paramount Pictureswith Gina Prince Bythewood.
Yes!
Yes!
That deserves its own space.
Yes!
Um, Tomi was also named to Forbes 30under 30 in media and her website was
named one of the 101 best websitesfor writers by Writers Digest.
Please, y'all, put your hands together.
(05:29):
And help me welcome to thestage, my girl, Tomi Adeyemi.
Oh my Wow, you guys!
(06:18):
Oh, I already, I was sitting back, orlike, I was backstage right before this
and I was like, oh, please get a tissue.
Um, I didn't think I wasgoing to cry tonight because I
cried mostly all of yesterday.
But you guys, like
I love you.
(06:43):
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for being here right now.
Thank you for celebrating the end ofthis trilogy and this journey and I just
can't wait to like meet you and talkto you and I honestly I want to have as
much time for your questions as possible.
So Zai, I'm kicking it off.
I'm kicking it off to you.
(07:04):
I got it.
I got it.
I got it.
Thank you so much for being here.
This is, this is incredible.
I like the energy in the room.
Like you, like you carry on.
You know, like little, little fun storyto kind of start of this has been a
long time in the making, you know.
(07:26):
I messaged homie back in 2021.
Literally, I was just like, um,Hey, I just, I would love to just
like jump on a zoom with you.
Talk with my favorite author.
She replied, she was like, yes,we're going to do an interview.
You're going to be likeRihanna and Beyonce.
And I was like, um, yeah,yeah, let's, let's do it.
(07:48):
And uh, three years, here we are.
Here we are.
Here we are.
And I honestly, I still don'tknow what it is about Zai that
made me like, reply that way.
Like, I didn't even read her,what she sent to me correctly.
I was like, Oh my gosh, thiscute little poet in London,
like we should do something.
We should do it.
(08:08):
Let's do it.
And then I just, For years, Icouldn't get her out of my mind.
And like, we joke about this at mypublisher because I'm like, Yes, Kris
Jenner works hard, but Zy Ramblesworks even harder, so I just want
to give a, a snap for your hustlebecause you really make things happen.
(08:30):
Thank you.
Okay.
You're the one who'ssupposed to cry, not me.
Um, okay.
So we've been waiting forthis book a while and I so
appreciate you bringing it out.
I know you felt this.
I see you and I appreciate you.
Great things comes with patience though.
Let me tell you, thisbook is packing a bunch.
(08:51):
And if you thought that the worldshe was introducing us to in book
one and book two was already amazing.
Book three is like completely different.
And the, the elements thatyou actually introduced to me,
introduced like new elements oflike cultures and stuff like that.
Why, why does elements, you know?
(09:12):
Yeah, I, going into this series, Iknew what the conflict of book one,
two, and three was going to be.
Just for a show of hands, howmany people have read book two?
Oh, yes.
Sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm not trying to swear at all.
I didn't swear.
You beautiful young children.
(09:33):
I did not swear.
You heard nothing.
You are angels.
I'm so sorry, mom and dad.
I'm so sorry.
Um, I'm not swearing.
Um, okay, so we can just talk.
Those hands went up so fast.
I think, okay.
I want to give not a disclaimer becauseI kind of don't believe in disclaimers.
Okay.
(09:53):
Like a very, you, how many people, okay,let's just keep doing how many people.
How many people have had like avery magical, mystical black woman
just come into your life and like,kind of speak a little prophecy
into you and then walk away?
I love it.
I love it.
Ooh, I can't wait to hear yours.
See, these are, you guys,I'm adopting you now.
(10:16):
So, last week, a woman called me.
And she was like, your world isso much bigger than you realize.
And she was explaining to me, she's like,you know, this has been like a seven year
journey, and if you, someone, someone whois my everything, and I, I kind of tell
(10:41):
her this every day, like, with a differentcat meme, um, But it's literally,
like, one of the reasons I am here.
And this is why I needed tissues.
Um, she told me that this isn't justfinishing a series, this is kind of
saying goodbye to the girl who had thedream of doing something like this.
(11:04):
Um, so that girl's been with mefor half my life, and I've been
writing since I was this tall.
So All of these things are wrappedin this, and when this woman
told me that your world is somuch bigger than you realize.
She's like, you've been, you'vebeen in this creative world.
(11:24):
You've been in Orisha.
You've been with like thegods and Xaeli and Zayn.
And then I was like, yeah.
And then I think about my world andit's me and a laptop and a bunch
of post it notes in a dark room.
Like that's the, that'sthe cave I've been in.
And like, I know you're like,but girl, I see your Instagram.
It's like, yes, if I'm going to leavethe cave, I'm going to show out.
(11:45):
Like, you know, you got me outside.
Like let's make a lasting impression.
Cause I'm not coming back for fiveyears, but it's like, I spend a lot
of time in the dark alone with mylaptop and a bunch of post it notes.
And so nearly a decade of that.
And so I come into a room likethis and my heart and mind doesn't
(12:10):
know what to do with the factthat you guys read these stories.
It's, um, I know you're like, Girl,duh, but I'm like, really, it's
just like, um, the human elementof it is really getting to me, uh,
the co, the communal aspect of it.
(12:32):
I think I've been focusing on, okay,yes, we'll really see and feel the
community when we're all in one theaterand we're watching Xaeli's journey,
but like, for me, this is my theater.
Um, and I'm like, Oh, these areall these people on my journey.
Ooh, we're not swearing.
So we're just crying.
(12:53):
We're not swearing.
So it's, um, it is so meaningful, uh,and tender and precious to my heart.
I feel like I have PatrickTa's like on till dawn spray.
So like the makeupshould last through this.
We'll see.
Um.
(13:13):
It's, it's, it's so precious to my heartto look at this room and see all of you
here and yeah, it's not a disclaimer.
I think it's just like I, I, I think Ijust want to share where I am right now in
this moment so that we can take this nextlike hour we have together and I don't
(13:36):
know, just create and do crazy things.
Like I keep asking them, I waslike, can you just start the event
playing Nuck if you buck becausethen I won't have a chance to cry.
So we might just stop in the middleand do that, but for now I think
we'll, we'll return to whateverthe question might've been.
(13:56):
Yeah, what was the question?
I'm just going to let you flow.
I'm going to let you flow.
I kind of want to add to that.
Like.
Okay.
How many people in this room?
Okay.
Cause I know children are blown changedmy life and continues to change my life.
You know that I want to knowhow many people in the room
like children has changed.
Your life has made you lookat the world differently.
(14:19):
You expanded, you connected toa culture other than your own.
See lift your head, liftyour head, lift your head.
Come on, come on.
Okay.
So this is, We understand.
We understand.
We're here.
We see you and we celebrate you today.
Thank you.
Thank you.
(14:41):
Um, the question was,
you're introducing new elementsand new cultures in the final book.
You know, like first we hadlike West African mythology.
Now, We're having a whole new villainfrom a whole new culture and an ally from
a whole new culture as well, you know.
(15:05):
Like, Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
No, this is on the back of the book.
This is on the back of the book.
Yeah, this isn't a spoiler.
I'm like, this is all the promo material.
There shall be no spoilers here.
I would never do that to you.
There's no spoilers.
Um, well, okay.
(15:26):
We'll just say the world is expanding.
The reason that is happening is it'sI would say it's maybe two fold.
So one fold is sort of theobjective, meaning it doesn't change.
Cause when I started the series, orno, when I started to see that this
(15:47):
series could sell to a publisher andI might get to write three books.
Um, because prior to that I'd spentabout four and a half years writing a
young adult fantasy and that fantasygot 63 rejections from literary agents.
Yeah, and like I remember like I waslike, ooh, I was I was planning out that
(16:07):
entire storyline I was like and then andthen in book three that she's gonna open
the gates of hell and like, you know LikeI was really I was getting in it cuz I
was like and this is what it means tobe a writer and I'm gonna Know so many
things and then I'm like, oh no one'sgonna read book one So I changed the way
I thought about writing and publishing.
And I was like, I'm going togive everything to one book.
(16:30):
I planned five books I was going to write.
Um, and I was like, and thenif someone pays me, I'll
figure out what happens next.
And when I was like, Ooh, Ithink someone might pay you girl.
So I was like, what'sgoing to happen next?
I knew in book two, it would be like,okay, it was a fight to bring magic back.
Now it's I'd still want to be spoileralert, even though you guys like all rose
(16:53):
your hand, but I want to be really safe.
Oh my God.
I got like soft tissues, soft life.
Okay.
So thank you.
Thank you very much.
I knew it would be a battle forpower, for control over the kingdom.
Um, because I think I think in, when,in the real world that we live in and
(17:16):
we have to share and face and see everyday, it's like, when I started this
series, I was like, if we could just fixpolice brutality, everything is alright.
Everything will be perfect.
Let's just focus on this problem.
And then, fast forward, six years.
And it's like, cool.
(17:37):
So if we could just fix that worldcrisis and also keep fixing this
problem we haven't fixed and also maybehave Sabah Tahir run for president.
And also it's just like, wehave, there's no one solution.
Like life is very, uh, It's, it's,I don't want to say messy and
(18:02):
complicated, but I don't know about you.
I think I grew up with a, let's fixit, it's a perfectionist mindset.
It's like we can think our way out ofthis, we can grind our way out of this.
And I think the older I've gotten,the more I've realized like, oh, this
life is, is actually an ecosystem.
And I don't necessarily have theanswers to what to do in an ecosystem,
(18:25):
but seeing it more as an ecosystemas opposed to like, what's that
game where you have to whack a mole?
I think it was like, oh, if I could justwhack this mole, we live in a utopia.
If I could just whack this mole,things will be great for America.
If I could just get every kid, like,education and this thing, things
would, like, I used to think like that.
And then Now I'm seeing like Hungry HungryHippo, it's like you just, you can't.
(18:50):
And I'm also like, not a politician,but still, it's just like, I imagine
the people in this room also thinkabout these things and it's weighing on
your hearts and your mind and not justwhat's happening in our community, but
what's happening in the world becausewe're also more connected than ever.
And so, You know, you go from seeing abody roll on TikTok to seeing like one
(19:13):
of the most horrific things you couldever possibly imagine and, and then
you have to go get on a Zoom meeting.
It's like we're in a very weird space andit's not a space that's existed before.
So I knew book two would be a conflictof like, Zaley thought all she
had to do was bring magic back andthink, and things would be right.
(19:33):
But the only, the deeper reason shewanted to bring magic back was so she
would have enough power to protect herfather because she had never healed from
the pain of losing her mother and she'slike, I will not heal if I lose my father.
So if I have magic, I can keep him safe.
And then at the end of book one,it's like, it is literally his loss
(19:54):
that allows her to bring magic back.
So she starts book two completelybroken, completely disillusioned.
Um, and I, I don't know about you,I can raise my hand, I don't, let's,
I like this raise hand like sort ofkindergarten vibe we got going on.
Raise your hand if you havebeen completely disillusioned
with life between now and 2018.
(20:22):
And it's hard.
I don't know what to do with that.
I don't know what to do with that.
Um, but that's what the,the trouble is in book two.
And something I saw in book three, Ialways knew there was going to be a
bigger enemy that they had to face.
But when I started writing bookthree in 2020, I felt like I was
watching my country tear itself apart.
(20:45):
Um, and at the time I wasliving in San Diego, so I also
was around a lot of veterans.
And that was a very interestingperspective for me because they've seen
the world from a militaristic standpoint.
Um, and I just very much felt like we,if we tear ourselves apart, if we tear
ourselves apart, we won't be here anymore.
And I don't want to be oneof those alarmist on TikTok.
(21:07):
That's like, we're in thefourth turning right now.
You have to move to that.
I was like, okay, let's stop it.
Like, so go back to the body rolls.
But it's like, I just felt thatand I wanted to write, I wanted to
use Orisha as like this communitythat's been tearing itself apart.
And there's someone who's beenwaiting to capitalize on that.
(21:30):
Um, so, so that's theexpansion of the world.
And I also wanted to give a nod toBrazil because that's where, like, I
used to say, I discovered the Orisha.
I'm like, no, that's wherethe Orisha discovered me.
That's where I got my, like,Spider Man spider bite.
And they were like, write these books.
And I'm like, oh, and seven years later,I'm like, okay, please bite someone.
(21:59):
Like, thank you, butplease bite someone else.
Um, so, so that's whywe're in a, a new world.
I wanted to.
Forced my characters to realize like,wow, we were, I was focused on you.
Meanwhile, there was someonethere watching us and just
waiting for the moment to strike.
And now we have to figure out what to do.
(22:20):
This, I love that.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Uh, it makes so much moresense when you're like weaving
it in like this all together.
Um, I also want to say there are so manyfull messages throughout the whole series,
you know, like so many moments, like thepressure that Zelie is facing, like in
book two and, You know, like her, herand Amari kind of like are a reflection
(22:43):
of each other, like a mirror, you know.
Book one, Zelie is the brave one.
And in book two, Amari isthe brave one, you know.
Um, I, from like the ancestorsto like this message of peace and
harmony and working together, likewhich one was your driving force?
The one that, you know,
(23:03):
I mean, I'm a militant person.
It's,
I mean, I've made peace with it, but like.
I was explaining to someone yesterday,like, the funniest thing over the years
has been, like, seeing you guys belike, I'm so mad at Amari, I hate her!
(23:27):
And like, and this, and I'm like, oh,this is helping me see where you might be
like a little divergent in your thinking,because I'm like, I, I would do it again.
Like, that's,
I'm like, this is my kingdom,and these people are in my way.
So, um, um.
Not that America needs a queen, butif we need, if we wanted one, like
(23:50):
anyway, anyway, anyway, let's focus.
Let's not start a new Republic.
Three mahogany books.
Anyway, these are kind of my dreams.
So I would say, I don'twant to say that like peace.
I am an Aquarian moon, you know?
(24:11):
And I think.
I love my Aquarians, especially sons.
All of my Aquarius sons have beenlike coming into my life lately.
Um, and if one of you is psychicand can tell me why, please do.
I'm not joking.
Okay.
Um, As an Aquarius son, deeplyempathetic, I think Aquarians are
the humanitarians of the Zodiac.
(24:32):
So they are striving.
Yes, you're like, humanity, peace.
Um, but I'm a Scorpio rising.
Um, and Scorpios are likethe, that girl from the ring.
Of the Zodiac.
(24:54):
So you're like, is it P?
And this is why I love Xi.
Xi literally radiates love.
And I'm like, yes, war,passion, my people, love.
Um, I love my people hard.
But I also love my people aggressively.
Like someone like, like kind oflike, I think actually, I think my
(25:17):
mom actually like accidentally ranover someone with her suitcase, but
like I was ready to fight the man.
I'd be like, get out ofmy mother's way, sir.
Um, so that's where I lean towards.
I do lean towards the fight.
I do think it's important to fight,especially like in this world and in
this society where We're really, we're,we're, we're not just socialized to
(25:42):
be meek and socialized to be grateful.
Um, it's like we're systemized into it.
It takes a lot to sit up with yourback straight and look someone
dead in the eye and say, no.
Like, I was like, put me on MountRushmore just for doing that.
(26:03):
Like, and that took so long in my career,like, it's, we're not, you have to fight.
And I know there's all those quotes,like, in a world where there's no
justice, like, to fight is justice.
I know there's, there's verypoetic ways of saying it.
Um, but it's like, yes, at thebase level you want humanity
(26:24):
and you want respect for all.
So if you're not going to give it, thenit's like, yes, I'm going to fight for it.
If you're going to do, andif it comes to a child.
I saw a mom on a TikTok the other day,and she was like, I'm telling you boys
right now, stop messing with my daughter.
Yeah.
She's like, stop messing with my daughter.
(26:46):
And she's like, and the funny thingis the teacher was sitting right here
and she was like, Call your mom, callyour sister, call anyone over 18,
and they can catch these hands, okay?
Stop messing with my daughter.
And I'm like, yes, like, becausethat maternal energy is, it's real.
(27:08):
You know, especially mothers.
No one fights harder than a mother.
Like no one holds on longer than a mother.
I meet so many readers who have come tothis book through grief, through losing
a mother, through losing a father.
And when I get to hold them, I'm like,you know, she's never left you, right?
I'm like, mothers cannot leave.
(27:29):
They literally can't.
They are so bound to you.
A mother's like, a mother's lovedoesn't even bring me to tears yet
because I haven't experienced it.
I have a great mind.
I cannot put my mind andheart around a mother's love.
Do not mess with a mother, you know,and do not mess with a mother's kids.
(27:50):
Especially and so many of myreaders feel like my kids.
So I was like do not I was like it willget cardi B It will get knock if you
buck Um, so it's all of that You'relike do you are you on the side of peace
and harmony or ancestors and i'm likewar i'm on the side of war I think we
should fight um I I I agree with zaylee.
(28:12):
I agree with zaylee.
I think we should fight.
Um, but you said there's shadowsides It's Zaley and Amari are,
like, Amari is my shadow side.
So it's like, you know, in book one,Amari has to learn to use her voice.
And I felt like I waslearning to use my voice.
Um, in book two, I don't want to say Amarigoes crazy dictator because I feel like
(28:36):
that's something we use to demean women.
I was like, these werevery strategic decisions.
And yes, in war there will be a loss of,again, don't put like, I was like, don't
put me in charge of a country, but likedefinitely do it and it'll be great.
So, and everyone will look great.
Anyway, I was like,the food will be great.
High nutritional value.
Anyway.
Um, yeah.
(28:57):
So that's why it's like, I don't hatemy characters because actually to write
them, I have to be in love with them.
I have to really, really sit and becomeeach one of them and understand why
they're doing the things they do.
So yeah.
Okay.
So I do have to ask if, ifyou love your characters,
(29:20):
if you love your characters,what about the ones we lost?
You know, no spoilers, no spoilers, but Ido want to say like, you know, like, When
you kill off a character, how do you feel?
How do you think we're going to feel?
You know?
Let's keep her accountable!
(29:43):
I grieve too.
I grieve.
It's like, there's even a character inbook three, and I know all of you guys are
going to be asking about this character,and I'm, and I have, I have an answer.
You'll be like, but what, and I was like,because, and I can tell you, I grieve.
(30:05):
I grieve with you.
Like, I don't just do this, like,Um, I sit at my computer and I sob
because I'm like this, like, we,we lose the most beautiful souls.
(30:30):
You know, this book is a lot about grief.
We lose beautiful souls.
What?
What?
What's happening?
What am I doing wrong?
Wait, wait, if this is No, thisisn't a spoiler, this is in general.
(30:50):
This is in general.
Don't worry, don't worry.
Guys, I am spoiler free.
I'm professional.
You guys keep sayingshe's spoiling everything.
I have told you nothing.
I'm not telling you anything.
And even if she did, I would not tell you.
(31:12):
I would leave you alonein your bedroom to grieve.
Okay, I'm like at me with your tears.
Someone did.
They, they said Ifinished the book at 3am.
I'm in bed crying.
And like a little bit, I'm like, yes.
But, but I don't write it to make you cry.
I don't.
I promise.
(31:32):
You're like, I don't believe you.
I don't.
Um, anybody that you cried overin this book, I promise you I have
sobbed while writing, while editing,because it's like, they're the angels.
They're the angels.
And it's like, when we lose angelsin real life, it's like, why?
Why?
(31:53):
A lot of this series started throughthe grief of all the angels we lost.
And I'm like, okay,all of these headlines.
I'm like, that's my cousin.
That's my brother.
That's my mother.
That's me.
So it's, I think to re life, I think theunifying people are like death and taxes.
I was like, I think pain.
(32:15):
I think it's actually pain.
Now I do think in life wehave love, We have joy.
We have community.
We have like just these thingsthat glitter through our soul.
You know, like life has a lot of beauty.
We have beauty.
I'm like, look at Saba.
Like we have beauty in this life.
(32:36):
Um, but I think what we all have ispain and I couldn't write this series.
I think it would be, I couldn'tdo it without there being pain.
You know, and even our like most kidkind of literature, I was like, when you
watch The Lion King now, you're like,this is actually kind of messed up to
(32:57):
show to a six, like when you watch dogswatching The Lion King and being like,
whoa, Mufasa, and you know, and we're likethis, and we're like, whoa, and I'm like,
that's, that's a really messed up story.
That is a painful.
Horrible story that is a child livingwith the guilt of killing his father
(33:22):
Who is not only the king of Pride Rock,but the entire sun in the sky You know
this like Simba is a story of shame andovercoming that shame in that shadow
and Needing a very sexy Nala to comeand be like get your act together You
know like that's what the story is andso Like, even our youngest stories,
(33:45):
our most iconic stories, are filledwith horrible pain, tragedy and loss.
You know?
And now we try and soften it, but whenit hits us in life, it's not soft.
It's awful.
It's awful.
It's like, like, I don't know, I feellike I'm sensing someone's pain in the
room right now because it doesn't feellike my pain, but it's hitting my heart.
(34:08):
You know?
And also, So that's why I don'tdo it just to laugh gleefully
and be like, I've made him cry.
No, I don't do that.
I might do that singing thing,but not because of your tears.
(34:30):
Okay.
That brings me comfort.
That brings me comfort.
Although I do want to saythat book three is pain.
It's called anguish.
I will not, I will not say anything.
I was like, at least it's,I didn't, did I, did I lie?
Did she lie?
(34:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Subbed.
I did.
Subbed.
I did.
Um, I want to ask as well forthe finale and the book series.
Is there anything that you reallywanted to include but didn't get to?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, let's do something for bookone or book two, like, without
any spoilers for book three.
Well, I'll, well, I'll say this,because I feel like in a month I'll
(35:13):
be able to talk about book three, andI'll be able to answer the question
that I think most readers will have.
There was a version of book threethat had about, like, 200 extra pages.
I know, here's the thing, guys.
Here's the thing, you alwaystweet me, you always tweet me,
and you're like, we want them all.
(35:33):
Cut nothing.
Give them all.
Give us everything.
No.
No.
Um, I think the difference between thewriter I am now and the writer I was
when I started is I would say thereis a bit of a ruthlessness of pen.
(35:58):
And a ruthlessness of, I wantto do this for these reasons.
I want to do this for a personal reason,but if I am going to give dignity to
the real situation that these charactersare in, this doesn't make any sense.
Um, and if I'm going to give dignity tolike this culture I've built, then this
(36:18):
culture I brought in that has like twolines, it's, it's, it's, it's not working.
It's not working.
So it, it's sort of like, um, I don'tknow why I'm seeing Masterchef Junior.
But I'm seeing Gordon Ramsay bakinga wedding cake, but I'm seeing
Masterchef Junior like above his head.
I don't, we'll talk about that in therapy.
(36:40):
But like, it's, it's, it's like you haveall the layers of the cake, you gotta
start sculpting, and you gotta carve down,and you have to be like, what is, what's
the actual rock, what's the diamond?
Um, so it's like I gave you thediamond, even though I want to give you.
the, kind of the opera, but I'm like,I got to give dignity to the story and
(37:03):
I got to give dignity to the charactersand you could only do so much at once.
Um, so yeah, well you'll have that fullanswer in like a month when I get to
talk about it, but see, no spoilers.
Prepare the book clubs,prepare the book clubs.
There are book clubs.
I know we're going to be onlinein like a month too, because
again, Kris Jenner works hard.
(37:24):
Zai works harder.
So, we'll have more.
Yeah.
Um, so, you have a QR codethat you can actually scan to
ask your questions, so Cute!
Yes.
Right here, and also on your screensas well for the people at the back.
I'm going to start readingout as well the questions.
So, um, Stella asked, which characterwas the most difficult to write?
(37:49):
Stella, are you here?
Yay.
Hi, Stella
Oh.
Oh, this is so fun.
Um, I, the most difficult characterto write initially was Amari,
(38:09):
because Amari didn't exist inthe inception of the story.
I know.
You're like, what?
What?
This is why we come.
This is why you're here,because now you know.
And then someone will be like, Ohyeah, I really love this character.
You're like, Did you know actually inthe original inception of the story,
like, you know, this is why we're hereto stunt on people with knowledge.
(38:30):
So in the original inception of thestory, I knew I had the world of Aresha.
I had Xaeli.
I knew there was a scroll thatshe could use to bring magic back.
And I knew that there was aprince that was against her.
But I needed a way toget the scroll to Xaeli.
(38:52):
And so for a plot reason, Amari was born.
And in the early drafts ofchildren, I mean the draft you
guys read was like draft 40.
Um, so in the early drafts, likethe first 20 drafts, it was very
difficult for me to hone Amari's voice.
Cause whenever I would get to her, like,I was, I was very Xaeli coded at the time.
(39:15):
So I would get to her and I'd be like,Oh, it's Sandy in the desert, princess.
And like, you know, like, Likehaving snark against your characters.
Um, And, but then we get tothe, the ship battle scene.
And here's the thing.
Like, I way more resonate as ahuman with Amari in the ship battle
(39:37):
scene than with any other character.
Like, that's actually crazy.
And, and that moment where she's like, Ihave to do this, like, Xaeli's in trouble.
And, and she takes the knife, andlike, she, she makes her first kill.
Um, that's when I started tosay, there's something about you.
(39:59):
And then by the end of the story, like,now my favorite line, In that entire
book is when she stabs King Saron.
And she's like, don't worry,I will be a better queen.
And ooh, in Spanish.
That line, when I got the script.
(40:20):
And she's like, And I was like,
Like it is very good in Spanish.
I cannot wait for this Spanish dub.
I'm going to be like, that'sgoing to be on all the time.
Um, That's the moment Icannot wait for in the movie.
And there's a lot of moments, butthat's the one where I'm gonna get
(40:44):
like, tip over the movie thing,like throw my popcorn at the screen.
And I don't condone making a mess.
I actually don't, but I'm goingto be so hype because I'm like,
yeah, I'm like, yeah, glow.
That's how I feel about Amari.
I'm like stabbing and stabbingand taking king tomes.
Yeah, glow.
Like that's how I feelabout Amari by the end.
(41:05):
She became my favorite character.
I think she has the most beautifularc in book one and gosh, I can't
wait to see who gets to be Amaria.
That's great.
Um, I can't wait.
I'm, I'm fascinated by her.
So it's very, it's kind of a beautifulthing about the creative process.
Like the, something that you're like,Oh, why does this have to be here?
(41:29):
That becomes, in my opinion,the most powerful arc.
in that entire story.
Thank you, Stella.
Okay.
Next we have Kristen who said,I've listened to audio versions
of book one and two, and BarneyTopin is an absolute legend.
(41:50):
I'm so excited to hear what CynthiaErivo will bring to Zelie's version.
I also want to say, into this question,Auntie Cintia, she has given me her
permission to actually call her likethat, you know, she commented on one,
under one of my videos, she said youcan call me like that, so Auntie Cintia.
Okay, okay, Zai, you see this networker?
(42:11):
So, you know, like, how was it toalso like bring her to life, you
know, to kind of like give an insightto how her voice and her acting, you
know, brings this whole new voiceto Children of Anguish and Anarchy?
Yeah, it was, they asked me inthe beginning, they were like,
Okay, do you want kind of whatguidelines do you want to give her?
(42:32):
And I was like, I don't want to giveher, I was like, I want she's an artist.
I was like, And her, to me, hergreatest artistry is her voice.
I was like, I want herto use her artistry.
I don't want to put like, Oh, we, we didit like this, or we said it like this.
I'm like, I think the beauty, cause it'slike, I love Bonnie Turpin and so many
(42:54):
of my readers, like she won audio bookof the year with children of blood and
bone, like Bonnie Turpin is incredible.
So it's like.
the only reason I was like, I wantthis, I want to make this happen is
because one, Cynthia was so passionate.
And two, I thought it'd be sobeautiful to have another Nigerian
(43:16):
bringing this to life and, andjust a creative collaboration.
And, and it gives me chills.
Her, her, like, I waslike rendition narration.
It gives me chills.
I really like, I, I can't go through like.
I can do like maybe four minutes andthen I'm like and we'll see you next
(43:38):
week Because it's just it's very itit overwhelms me And I don't like
to be overwhelmed so So yeah, no,it's really incredible I love that.
Like, I just want to like, listen toit just to have her voice in my head.
Um, but also like, Cintia River is anactress and I do have to ask the question.
(43:59):
Yes.
You know, in terms of big names forthe movie, you know, there's this,
there's this little group of likeNigerian actors like John Boyega, all
of that, you know, you know, okay, okay.
Are there any of those big names that
I can't talk about who I wantin the movie anymore because
(44:22):
we start casting next month.
So,
yeah, and I am, there are certain people,you know, we've talked to certain people
about certain things and there are somethings I'm, dying to scream at you guys
(44:43):
so we could all be like but Like you knowhow like Tom Holland was the problem child
of the Avengers and he was always givingthings I like I don't want Paramount
to know that I am the Tom Holland
So I've been on my best Um, and haven'tsaid anything, but like now I can't
say it because if I go like, Oh myGod, I'd love for this person to be,
(45:06):
and then like this person gets it.
And then I meet that person on set andthen they're like, Oh, hey, tell me.
And I'm like, well, no,we're not doing this.
We're not doing this.
Don't don't let's not, Idon't want this energy on set.
Um, but I will say of the conversationswe've had, the things that have struck
me the most is like the humility.
that people are bringing to this project.
(45:26):
Both, like, in front of thescreen and behind the screen.
Cause, you know, we're talkingto, like, Academy Award nominated,
like, production designers.
Like, people who have designedcostumes that have, like, touched
pop culture and, like, made waves.
And, like, even these actorsand actresses that have been
in, like, billion dollar movies.
Like, we're talking to people.
(45:48):
The, there's just this sort of joinedphilosophy, joint philosophy of
like, we want to create from hereand bring something to the people.
And I think that's very oppositeof what Hollywood typically is.
Cause I think Hollywood is typically like,
(46:12):
Peasants here, you know,like, and you know, there was,
there was an age for that.
There was an age for that glamour andthat this, but I think it's really
beautiful to, to have people comingtogether, not just with passion for
the project, but, but passion forthe people who the project is for.
Um, yeah, so we're, we'rein a beautiful spot.
(46:35):
I've always told you guys,like, look at my eyes.
You know, because contractually Iprobably can't say what's, if it's bad,
but look at my eyes and my eyes willtell you, um, we're in an amazing spot.
We're in an amazing spot.
Like the things I've even seen off likea, like a choreographed fight scene.
(46:57):
Xaeli, her staff, versus 20 guards,and then I had to destroy the footage.
Like, that's how, like, I was like,we're moving, and like, there, I,
Gina Prince Bythewood, I was like,she's a Gemini, but I promise you
she is the general of Ba Sing Se.
I promise you.
And I tell her every day, I'm like, Ican't wait to read your birth chart.
(47:19):
And she's like, great.
Can you tell me this?
And I was like, yes.
And I can't wait toknow what your moon is.
I know you got to have it be a Virgo moon.
I know you got, because it's like she,
this is her.
And this is the entire production.
Steady.
Gina and time, like time knows no enemy.
(47:40):
She's gonna be like, you're,she's already told me I'm crazy.
And I was like, I am.
And I'm in service of you.
So like the combination of all ofthis We're, we're not just coming
for, for, like, Twilight, HungerGames, Potter, Black Panther.
It's like, we're, we're, we're, we'recoming from Lord of the Rings throat.
(48:05):
Okay?
We're coming.
We're, we're competitive.
We're like, no, this is war.
This is a movie.
And this movie is war.
And it's time to like, there shouldbe no movies after this movie.
It should be illegal.
In my country.
So anyway, it's like,we launched the movie.
(48:27):
I launched my reign as queenof the United, I don't know.
We'll, we'll, we'llgroup, think a good name.
Um, but yes, it's, it's gonna be amazing.
It's going to be,
It's gonna be a, it's, it's, I'm,I was gonna say a time turner, but
it is, it is gonna be a landmark.
(48:48):
Not just for our people, not justfor our souls, but for cinema.
Yeah.
Children and Blood and Bone to the world!
That's what's going to happen.
We have Christine who's asking, howdo you ground yourself enough to write
(49:10):
thematically about traumatic eventsthat we are still living through?
Where's Christine?
Hi.
Wow.
Wow.
What a question.
(49:30):
I don't, not that I don't know how to lie.
Um,
I think at this point of my career,
I am no longer living in the traumasthat I am actively writing about.
(49:53):
So for book one, book two and bookthree, I was actively living in
whatever pain that I was writing about.
Um, so there was no grounding and
That's not a sustainablething, we'll at least say.
Especially for like seven ish years.
(50:15):
Um, I was always in the midst of thestorm that I was putting on page.
And that was just what myheart was going through.
And then there was deadlines and marketingand like all these different things and
you know, like I know I've talked about iton some interviews But a big reason book
three took such a long time is becauseI got really sick in like 2021 and so if
(50:41):
it was five years between book Two andbook three like for three of those years.
I was really really sick for aboutone and a half of those years, I
was recovering from being sick.
So book three was written almostentirely in sickness and it took
a long time because of that.
And so I just finished my fourthnovel two weeks ago and it's up.
(51:08):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Um, it is not set in thisworld, so it's a new series.
But I wrote it in six months.
And it was the first time I wasn'twriting about the storm I was in.
(51:28):
I, the way I described it is I was like,it was like I could see the storm I was
in and I was sitting, if it was over thewater, I was like sitting on an inlet
and I had like a canvas on an easel andI was painting it and it was so, Ooh.
(51:49):
It was intensely beautifulto witness that storm.
And very scary to realizethat I was in that storm.
Because, again, this was the first timeI was painting the storm from a distance.
So, I think now, Like around the eightyear mark in my career, I have the tools
(52:14):
as a human being, whether that be Liketherapy, journaling, community, not
locking yourself in the dark for hours,um, and weeks on end, and just writing.
Being able to communicate whenI need more time on a deadline.
being able to build a marketingcampaign that doesn't result
(52:37):
in me getting very sick.
Like it was a bit of learn.
I don't want to say trial and error.
It's like you can only know you.
Something I learned about life as areform perfectionist is like, Oh, the
best thing you can do is just learn.
You are going to make mistakes.
You are going to make errors.
You're going to make giant mistakes.
(52:59):
It's actually about the course correction.
And it's about if you keep making the samemistake again and again and again, that's
when you can start being mad at yourself.
But you, you don't have to be upset aboutyourself for any mistake for any time.
You're like, why did I go left whenI clearly could have gone right?
Like life has, what's it called?
(53:22):
It's not bandwidth slack.
I found life actuallyhas some slack in it.
And so if you were making yourbest effort every day, like,
like you, it'll be alright.
And that's what I found.
So now I'm very grounded.
But I'm not living through the storms.
(53:43):
I, I face the storms.
And then I paint about it.
And I, I, I find that it's beena really beautiful way of also
just rehabilitating my creativity.
Um, So yeah, that's, that's the answer.
That's an amazing question.
(54:05):
We're gonna go for, this is it.
One more question.
One more question, come on.
Um, choose wisely.
One more question from Mo who said, ifyou had to name the ideal song or album
to pair with this book, what would it be?
Oh, Haha.
(54:29):
Haha.
Haha.
Sorry.
He said, not give you buck.
And I was like, this book is infive parts for part one, I think
around chapter like seven or eight,you could start playing that.
And you know, you just see Zalee laughing.
(54:49):
See the things that give me delight.
Um,
There is one song by Chelsea Wolfe.
It's called, I thinkit's called The Waves.
And when you listen to it, so it'snot even an album, it's one song.
I would say that, that isthe emotion of this book.
(55:13):
It's a really deep song.
Um, it's also beautiful.
It's sorrow, it's full of sorrow,but it's also full of catharsis.
And I think especially towards the end,I wrote the end of this book to that song
and repeat again and again and again.
And it was the most intensewriting experience I have ever had.
So, that, that's the song,if, if there's a song.
(55:38):
And then, I imagine, I'll cheat it,there's a vocal group called The Faux
Paws, and they have a acapella cover.
version of The Dog Days Are Over.
And I always imagine thatplaying at the very end.
(55:58):
And I won't say anymore.
No spoilers.
See, you know, we've been locked in.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Tomi.
This is the end of our conversation.
Thank you.
Tomi!
Give it up for Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
(56:19):
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
Discover a world wherewords ignite change.
Tune in to Black Books Matter thepodcast, where we celebrate the profound
impact of African American literature.
Join us as we delve into iconic worksand hidden gems, discussing their power
(56:43):
to shape minds and transform societies.
Get ready for thought provokingdiscussions, author interviews,
and insights that matter.
Don't miss out!
Subscribe to Black Books Matter thepodcast on your favorite podcast
platform and let the voices of AfricanAmerican authors resonate with you.
Welcome to the Mahogany Books PodcastNetwork, your gateway to the world
of African American literature.
We're proud to present acollection of podcasts dedicated
to exploring the depth and richnessof African American literature.
Immerse yourself in podcasts like BlackBooks Matter, the podcast, where we
learn about the books and major lifemoments that influence today's top
(00:21):
writers or tune in to Real Ballers Read.
Where brothers Jan and Miles inviteamazing people to talk about the
meaningful books in their lives.
So, whether you're a literatureenthusiast, an advocate for social
justice, or simply curious about theuntold stories that shape our world,
subscribe to the Mahogany BooksPodcast Network on your favorite
platform, and let African Americanliterature ignite your passion.
(00:46):
How y'all feeling?
How
are you all feeling?
I am so pumped.
Let me calm down.
First of all, let me calm down.
I am so pumped up for a number of reasons.
And I wrote my script down so Iwon't forget anything because it is
important to me to read what someof these, both, um, both of these
(01:09):
young ladies have accomplished.
But first, as she mentioned, I amRamunda Lark Young, co owner of Mahogany
Books with my amazing husband, DerekYoung, somewhere out here, somewhere.
Yes, I see you.
Yes.
Yes, yes.
We just celebrated our22nd wedding anniversary.
Yes, yes.
(01:30):
22 years married and 17 years inbusiness making black books accessible.
That's what we're doing.
Yes, yes, yes.
Just a little bit about us.
It has, we've been working for 17 years.
We started in our one bedroomapartment in Alexandria, Virginia.
But we wanted people to have access toblack books no matter where they lived.
(01:50):
We didn't want to leave that tochance for somebody else to decide.
That's what we're doing.
So Mahogany Books was born.
We have a location at NationalHarbor, one in Anacostia, and a
little footprint in National Airport.
So this is something very serious to us.
And when we look at the audience andsee all of your faces that show up
time and time again for these moments,these pieces of community that bring us
together, We don't take that lightly.
(02:11):
So please give yourselfa round of applause.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Really quickly.
I want to give a big shout out to ourvenue host, the amazing DC Public Library.
Please help.
Yes.
Clap it up for them.
Yes.
And then additionally, really quickly,the DC Public Library Foundation,
which I'm a proud board member,helped to provide some of the books
(02:34):
for tonight's audience members.
DC Public Library Foundation.
Yes, yes, yes.
And then lastly, before I introduceour, our amazing, uh, moderator, if
you're taking photos, please tag us.
Please tag Tomi, please tagZai, please tag Mahogany Books.
Those pictures mean somuch to so many people.
Us and other people who, who wished theycould have been here, but y'all got the
(02:56):
best seats in the house, I'm just saying.
But take pictures.
Um, so anyway, let's get into it.
Zai Silla, celebrating black storiesacross film and fiction, literature,
literature, Zai, an accomplishedactress and creator, is on a
mission to amplify black narratives.
Under the platform name, Zai Rambles, sheweaves magic across screens and pages.
(03:17):
From reaching millions with her Africanmythology recommendations, to championing
black characters in anime and Netflix,Zai is a force to be reckoned with.
Inspired by Issa Rae's mantra, she'srooting for everybody black, yes,
recently she starred in The Kitchen.
Her presence at the NAACP ImageAwards and the BAFTA Ceremonies
(03:40):
added to her illustrious journey.
Y'all, please help me welcome to the stageour Dope Conversation host, Xy Scylla!
Hey!
Yes!
Hey!
Absolutely, absolutely.
Hello!
Hey!
Yes!
(04:00):
Right?
Yes, give it up!
So let's, okay, everybody pause.
Calm down, calm down.
Let's get into it.
We are here for our featuredauthor this evening.
She was named one of Time Magazine's 100Most Influential People, Tomi Adeyemi.
She is a Hugo and Nebula awardwinning Nigerian American writer and
(04:20):
storyteller, yes, based in New York.
After graduating from Harvard University,
y'all didn't hear me say that, fromHarvard University, With honors and
a degree in English literature, shealso studied West African mythology,
religion, and culture in Salvador, Brazil.
Her first novel, everybodyknows what the first novel is.
(04:41):
Who knows what the, let mehear you on the count of three.
One, two, three.
Yes.
Okay.
We're in the right building.
Yes.
Her first novel Children of Bloodand Bone debuted at number one on
the New York Times bestsellers list.
It's highly anticipated sequelChildren of Virtue and Vengeance
also debuted at number one onthe New York Times bestsellers.
Tomi's Legacy of Orisha Trilogy,um, is being developed into a
(05:07):
feature film by Paramount Pictureswith Gina Prince Bythewood.
Yes!
Yes!
That deserves its own space.
Yes!
Um, Tomi was also named to Forbes 30under 30 in media and her website was
named one of the 101 best websitesfor writers by Writers Digest.
Please, y'all, put your hands together.
(05:29):
And help me welcome to thestage, my girl, Tomi Adeyemi.
Oh my Wow, you guys!
(06:18):
Oh, I already, I was sitting back, orlike, I was backstage right before this
and I was like, oh, please get a tissue.
Um, I didn't think I wasgoing to cry tonight because I
cried mostly all of yesterday.
But you guys, like
I love you.
(06:43):
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for being here right now.
Thank you for celebrating the end ofthis trilogy and this journey and I just
can't wait to like meet you and talkto you and I honestly I want to have as
much time for your questions as possible.
So Zai, I'm kicking it off.
I'm kicking it off to you.
(07:04):
I got it.
I got it.
I got it.
Thank you so much for being here.
This is, this is incredible.
I like the energy in the room.
Like you, like you carry on.
You know, like little, little fun storyto kind of start of this has been a
long time in the making, you know.
(07:26):
I messaged homie back in 2021.
Literally, I was just like, um,Hey, I just, I would love to just
like jump on a zoom with you.
Talk with my favorite author.
She replied, she was like, yes,we're going to do an interview.
You're going to be likeRihanna and Beyonce.
And I was like, um, yeah,yeah, let's, let's do it.
(07:48):
And uh, three years, here we are.
Here we are.
Here we are.
And I honestly, I still don'tknow what it is about Zai that
made me like, reply that way.
Like, I didn't even read her,what she sent to me correctly.
I was like, Oh my gosh, thiscute little poet in London,
like we should do something.
We should do it.
(08:08):
Let's do it.
And then I just, For years, Icouldn't get her out of my mind.
And like, we joke about this at mypublisher because I'm like, Yes, Kris
Jenner works hard, but Zy Ramblesworks even harder, so I just want
to give a, a snap for your hustlebecause you really make things happen.
(08:30):
Thank you.
Okay.
You're the one who'ssupposed to cry, not me.
Um, okay.
So we've been waiting forthis book a while and I so
appreciate you bringing it out.
I know you felt this.
I see you and I appreciate you.
Great things comes with patience though.
Let me tell you, thisbook is packing a bunch.
(08:51):
And if you thought that the worldshe was introducing us to in book
one and book two was already amazing.
Book three is like completely different.
And the, the elements thatyou actually introduced to me,
introduced like new elements oflike cultures and stuff like that.
Why, why does elements, you know?
(09:12):
Yeah, I, going into this series, Iknew what the conflict of book one,
two, and three was going to be.
Just for a show of hands, howmany people have read book two?
Oh, yes.
Sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm not trying to swear at all.
I didn't swear.
You beautiful young children.
(09:33):
I did not swear.
You heard nothing.
You are angels.
I'm so sorry, mom and dad.
I'm so sorry.
Um, I'm not swearing.
Um, okay, so we can just talk.
Those hands went up so fast.
I think, okay.
I want to give not a disclaimer becauseI kind of don't believe in disclaimers.
Okay.
(09:53):
Like a very, you, how many people, okay,let's just keep doing how many people.
How many people have had like avery magical, mystical black woman
just come into your life and like,kind of speak a little prophecy
into you and then walk away?
I love it.
I love it.
Ooh, I can't wait to hear yours.
See, these are, you guys,I'm adopting you now.
(10:16):
So, last week, a woman called me.
And she was like, your world isso much bigger than you realize.
And she was explaining to me, she's like,you know, this has been like a seven year
journey, and if you, someone, someone whois my everything, and I, I kind of tell
(10:41):
her this every day, like, with a differentcat meme, um, But it's literally,
like, one of the reasons I am here.
And this is why I needed tissues.
Um, she told me that this isn't justfinishing a series, this is kind of
saying goodbye to the girl who had thedream of doing something like this.
(11:04):
Um, so that girl's been with mefor half my life, and I've been
writing since I was this tall.
So All of these things are wrappedin this, and when this woman
told me that your world is somuch bigger than you realize.
She's like, you've been, you'vebeen in this creative world.
(11:24):
You've been in Orisha.
You've been with like thegods and Xaeli and Zayn.
And then I was like, yeah.
And then I think about my world andit's me and a laptop and a bunch
of post it notes in a dark room.
Like that's the, that'sthe cave I've been in.
And like, I know you're like,but girl, I see your Instagram.
It's like, yes, if I'm going to leavethe cave, I'm going to show out.
(11:45):
Like, you know, you got me outside.
Like let's make a lasting impression.
Cause I'm not coming back for fiveyears, but it's like, I spend a lot
of time in the dark alone with mylaptop and a bunch of post it notes.
And so nearly a decade of that.
And so I come into a room likethis and my heart and mind doesn't
(12:10):
know what to do with the factthat you guys read these stories.
It's, um, I know you're like, Girl,duh, but I'm like, really, it's
just like, um, the human elementof it is really getting to me, uh,
the co, the communal aspect of it.
(12:32):
I think I've been focusing on, okay,yes, we'll really see and feel the
community when we're all in one theaterand we're watching Xaeli's journey,
but like, for me, this is my theater.
Um, and I'm like, Oh, these areall these people on my journey.
Ooh, we're not swearing.
So we're just crying.
(12:53):
We're not swearing.
So it's, um, it is so meaningful, uh,and tender and precious to my heart.
I feel like I have PatrickTa's like on till dawn spray.
So like the makeupshould last through this.
We'll see.
Um.
(13:13):
It's, it's, it's so precious to my heartto look at this room and see all of you
here and yeah, it's not a disclaimer.
I think it's just like I, I, I think Ijust want to share where I am right now in
this moment so that we can take this nextlike hour we have together and I don't
(13:36):
know, just create and do crazy things.
Like I keep asking them, I waslike, can you just start the event
playing Nuck if you buck becausethen I won't have a chance to cry.
So we might just stop in the middleand do that, but for now I think
we'll, we'll return to whateverthe question might've been.
(13:56):
Yeah, what was the question?
I'm just going to let you flow.
I'm going to let you flow.
I kind of want to add to that.
Like.
Okay.
How many people in this room?
Okay.
Cause I know children are blown changedmy life and continues to change my life.
You know that I want to knowhow many people in the room
like children has changed.
Your life has made you lookat the world differently.
(14:19):
You expanded, you connected toa culture other than your own.
See lift your head, liftyour head, lift your head.
Come on, come on.
Okay.
So this is, We understand.
We understand.
We're here.
We see you and we celebrate you today.
Thank you.
Thank you.
(14:41):
Um, the question was,
you're introducing new elementsand new cultures in the final book.
You know, like first we hadlike West African mythology.
Now, We're having a whole new villainfrom a whole new culture and an ally from
a whole new culture as well, you know.
(15:05):
Like, Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
No, this is on the back of the book.
This is on the back of the book.
Yeah, this isn't a spoiler.
I'm like, this is all the promo material.
There shall be no spoilers here.
I would never do that to you.
There's no spoilers.
Um, well, okay.
(15:26):
We'll just say the world is expanding.
The reason that is happening is it'sI would say it's maybe two fold.
So one fold is sort of theobjective, meaning it doesn't change.
Cause when I started the series, orno, when I started to see that this
(15:47):
series could sell to a publisher andI might get to write three books.
Um, because prior to that I'd spentabout four and a half years writing a
young adult fantasy and that fantasygot 63 rejections from literary agents.
Yeah, and like I remember like I waslike, ooh, I was I was planning out that
(16:07):
entire storyline I was like and then andthen in book three that she's gonna open
the gates of hell and like, you know LikeI was really I was getting in it cuz I
was like and this is what it means tobe a writer and I'm gonna Know so many
things and then I'm like, oh no one'sgonna read book one So I changed the way
I thought about writing and publishing.
And I was like, I'm going togive everything to one book.
(16:30):
I planned five books I was going to write.
Um, and I was like, and thenif someone pays me, I'll
figure out what happens next.
And when I was like, Ooh, Ithink someone might pay you girl.
So I was like, what'sgoing to happen next?
I knew in book two, it would be like,okay, it was a fight to bring magic back.
Now it's I'd still want to be spoileralert, even though you guys like all rose
(16:53):
your hand, but I want to be really safe.
Oh my God.
I got like soft tissues, soft life.
Okay.
So thank you.
Thank you very much.
I knew it would be a battle forpower, for control over the kingdom.
Um, because I think I think in, when,in the real world that we live in and
(17:16):
we have to share and face and see everyday, it's like, when I started this
series, I was like, if we could just fixpolice brutality, everything is alright.
Everything will be perfect.
Let's just focus on this problem.
And then, fast forward, six years.
And it's like, cool.
(17:37):
So if we could just fix that worldcrisis and also keep fixing this
problem we haven't fixed and also maybehave Sabah Tahir run for president.
And also it's just like, wehave, there's no one solution.
Like life is very, uh, It's, it's,I don't want to say messy and
(18:02):
complicated, but I don't know about you.
I think I grew up with a, let's fixit, it's a perfectionist mindset.
It's like we can think our way out ofthis, we can grind our way out of this.
And I think the older I've gotten,the more I've realized like, oh, this
life is, is actually an ecosystem.
And I don't necessarily have theanswers to what to do in an ecosystem,
(18:25):
but seeing it more as an ecosystemas opposed to like, what's that
game where you have to whack a mole?
I think it was like, oh, if I could justwhack this mole, we live in a utopia.
If I could just whack this mole,things will be great for America.
If I could just get every kid, like,education and this thing, things
would, like, I used to think like that.
And then Now I'm seeing like Hungry HungryHippo, it's like you just, you can't.
(18:50):
And I'm also like, not a politician,but still, it's just like, I imagine
the people in this room also thinkabout these things and it's weighing on
your hearts and your mind and not justwhat's happening in our community, but
what's happening in the world becausewe're also more connected than ever.
And so, You know, you go from seeing abody roll on TikTok to seeing like one
(19:13):
of the most horrific things you couldever possibly imagine and, and then
you have to go get on a Zoom meeting.
It's like we're in a very weird space andit's not a space that's existed before.
So I knew book two would be a conflictof like, Zaley thought all she
had to do was bring magic back andthink, and things would be right.
(19:33):
But the only, the deeper reason shewanted to bring magic back was so she
would have enough power to protect herfather because she had never healed from
the pain of losing her mother and she'slike, I will not heal if I lose my father.
So if I have magic, I can keep him safe.
And then at the end of book one,it's like, it is literally his loss
(19:54):
that allows her to bring magic back.
So she starts book two completelybroken, completely disillusioned.
Um, and I, I don't know about you,I can raise my hand, I don't, let's,
I like this raise hand like sort ofkindergarten vibe we got going on.
Raise your hand if you havebeen completely disillusioned
with life between now and 2018.
(20:22):
And it's hard.
I don't know what to do with that.
I don't know what to do with that.
Um, but that's what the,the trouble is in book two.
And something I saw in book three, Ialways knew there was going to be a
bigger enemy that they had to face.
But when I started writing bookthree in 2020, I felt like I was
watching my country tear itself apart.
(20:45):
Um, and at the time I wasliving in San Diego, so I also
was around a lot of veterans.
And that was a very interestingperspective for me because they've seen
the world from a militaristic standpoint.
Um, and I just very much felt like we,if we tear ourselves apart, if we tear
ourselves apart, we won't be here anymore.
And I don't want to be oneof those alarmist on TikTok.
(21:07):
That's like, we're in thefourth turning right now.
You have to move to that.
I was like, okay, let's stop it.
Like, so go back to the body rolls.
But it's like, I just felt thatand I wanted to write, I wanted to
use Orisha as like this communitythat's been tearing itself apart.
And there's someone who's beenwaiting to capitalize on that.
(21:30):
Um, so, so that's theexpansion of the world.
And I also wanted to give a nod toBrazil because that's where, like, I
used to say, I discovered the Orisha.
I'm like, no, that's wherethe Orisha discovered me.
That's where I got my, like,Spider Man spider bite.
And they were like, write these books.
And I'm like, oh, and seven years later,I'm like, okay, please bite someone.
(21:59):
Like, thank you, butplease bite someone else.
Um, so, so that's whywe're in a, a new world.
I wanted to.
Forced my characters to realize like,wow, we were, I was focused on you.
Meanwhile, there was someonethere watching us and just
waiting for the moment to strike.
And now we have to figure out what to do.
(22:20):
This, I love that.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Uh, it makes so much moresense when you're like weaving
it in like this all together.
Um, I also want to say there are so manyfull messages throughout the whole series,
you know, like so many moments, like thepressure that Zelie is facing, like in
book two and, You know, like her, herand Amari kind of like are a reflection
(22:43):
of each other, like a mirror, you know.
Book one, Zelie is the brave one.
And in book two, Amari isthe brave one, you know.
Um, I, from like the ancestorsto like this message of peace and
harmony and working together, likewhich one was your driving force?
The one that, you know,
(23:03):
I mean, I'm a militant person.
It's,
I mean, I've made peace with it, but like.
I was explaining to someone yesterday,like, the funniest thing over the years
has been, like, seeing you guys belike, I'm so mad at Amari, I hate her!
(23:27):
And like, and this, and I'm like, oh,this is helping me see where you might be
like a little divergent in your thinking,because I'm like, I, I would do it again.
Like, that's,
I'm like, this is my kingdom,and these people are in my way.
So, um, um.
Not that America needs a queen, butif we need, if we wanted one, like
(23:50):
anyway, anyway, anyway, let's focus.
Let's not start a new Republic.
Three mahogany books.
Anyway, these are kind of my dreams.
So I would say, I don'twant to say that like peace.
I am an Aquarian moon, you know?
(24:11):
And I think.
I love my Aquarians, especially sons.
All of my Aquarius sons have beenlike coming into my life lately.
Um, and if one of you is psychicand can tell me why, please do.
I'm not joking.
Okay.
Um, As an Aquarius son, deeplyempathetic, I think Aquarians are
the humanitarians of the Zodiac.
(24:32):
So they are striving.
Yes, you're like, humanity, peace.
Um, but I'm a Scorpio rising.
Um, and Scorpios are likethe, that girl from the ring.
Of the Zodiac.
(24:54):
So you're like, is it P?
And this is why I love Xi.
Xi literally radiates love.
And I'm like, yes, war,passion, my people, love.
Um, I love my people hard.
But I also love my people aggressively.
Like someone like, like kind oflike, I think actually, I think my
(25:17):
mom actually like accidentally ranover someone with her suitcase, but
like I was ready to fight the man.
I'd be like, get out ofmy mother's way, sir.
Um, so that's where I lean towards.
I do lean towards the fight.
I do think it's important to fight,especially like in this world and in
this society where We're really, we're,we're, we're not just socialized to
(25:42):
be meek and socialized to be grateful.
Um, it's like we're systemized into it.
It takes a lot to sit up with yourback straight and look someone
dead in the eye and say, no.
Like, I was like, put me on MountRushmore just for doing that.
(26:03):
Like, and that took so long in my career,like, it's, we're not, you have to fight.
And I know there's all those quotes,like, in a world where there's no
justice, like, to fight is justice.
I know there's, there's verypoetic ways of saying it.
Um, but it's like, yes, at thebase level you want humanity
(26:24):
and you want respect for all.
So if you're not going to give it, thenit's like, yes, I'm going to fight for it.
If you're going to do, andif it comes to a child.
I saw a mom on a TikTok the other day,and she was like, I'm telling you boys
right now, stop messing with my daughter.
Yeah.
She's like, stop messing with my daughter.
(26:46):
And she's like, and the funny thingis the teacher was sitting right here
and she was like, Call your mom, callyour sister, call anyone over 18,
and they can catch these hands, okay?
Stop messing with my daughter.
And I'm like, yes, like, becausethat maternal energy is, it's real.
(27:08):
You know, especially mothers.
No one fights harder than a mother.
Like no one holds on longer than a mother.
I meet so many readers who have come tothis book through grief, through losing
a mother, through losing a father.
And when I get to hold them, I'm like,you know, she's never left you, right?
I'm like, mothers cannot leave.
(27:29):
They literally can't.
They are so bound to you.
A mother's like, a mother's lovedoesn't even bring me to tears yet
because I haven't experienced it.
I have a great mind.
I cannot put my mind andheart around a mother's love.
Do not mess with a mother, you know,and do not mess with a mother's kids.
(27:50):
Especially and so many of myreaders feel like my kids.
So I was like do not I was like it willget cardi B It will get knock if you
buck Um, so it's all of that You'relike do you are you on the side of peace
and harmony or ancestors and i'm likewar i'm on the side of war I think we
should fight um I I I agree with zaylee.
(28:12):
I agree with zaylee.
I think we should fight.
Um, but you said there's shadowsides It's Zaley and Amari are,
like, Amari is my shadow side.
So it's like, you know, in book one,Amari has to learn to use her voice.
And I felt like I waslearning to use my voice.
Um, in book two, I don't want to say Amarigoes crazy dictator because I feel like
(28:36):
that's something we use to demean women.
I was like, these werevery strategic decisions.
And yes, in war there will be a loss of,again, don't put like, I was like, don't
put me in charge of a country, but likedefinitely do it and it'll be great.
So, and everyone will look great.
Anyway, I was like,the food will be great.
High nutritional value.
Anyway.
Um, yeah.
(28:57):
So that's why it's like, I don't hatemy characters because actually to write
them, I have to be in love with them.
I have to really, really sit and becomeeach one of them and understand why
they're doing the things they do.
So yeah.
Okay.
So I do have to ask if, ifyou love your characters,
(29:20):
if you love your characters,what about the ones we lost?
You know, no spoilers, no spoilers, but Ido want to say like, you know, like, When
you kill off a character, how do you feel?
How do you think we're going to feel?
You know?
Let's keep her accountable!
(29:43):
I grieve too.
I grieve.
It's like, there's even a character inbook three, and I know all of you guys are
going to be asking about this character,and I'm, and I have, I have an answer.
You'll be like, but what, and I was like,because, and I can tell you, I grieve.
(30:05):
I grieve with you.
Like, I don't just do this, like,Um, I sit at my computer and I sob
because I'm like this, like, we,we lose the most beautiful souls.
(30:30):
You know, this book is a lot about grief.
We lose beautiful souls.
What?
What?
What's happening?
What am I doing wrong?
Wait, wait, if this is No, thisisn't a spoiler, this is in general.
(30:50):
This is in general.
Don't worry, don't worry.
Guys, I am spoiler free.
I'm professional.
You guys keep sayingshe's spoiling everything.
I have told you nothing.
I'm not telling you anything.
And even if she did, I would not tell you.
(31:12):
I would leave you alonein your bedroom to grieve.
Okay, I'm like at me with your tears.
Someone did.
They, they said Ifinished the book at 3am.
I'm in bed crying.
And like a little bit, I'm like, yes.
But, but I don't write it to make you cry.
I don't.
I promise.
(31:32):
You're like, I don't believe you.
I don't.
Um, anybody that you cried overin this book, I promise you I have
sobbed while writing, while editing,because it's like, they're the angels.
They're the angels.
And it's like, when we lose angelsin real life, it's like, why?
Why?
(31:53):
A lot of this series started throughthe grief of all the angels we lost.
And I'm like, okay,all of these headlines.
I'm like, that's my cousin.
That's my brother.
That's my mother.
That's me.
So it's, I think to re life, I think theunifying people are like death and taxes.
I was like, I think pain.
(32:15):
I think it's actually pain.
Now I do think in life wehave love, We have joy.
We have community.
We have like just these thingsthat glitter through our soul.
You know, like life has a lot of beauty.
We have beauty.
I'm like, look at Saba.
Like we have beauty in this life.
(32:36):
Um, but I think what we all have ispain and I couldn't write this series.
I think it would be, I couldn'tdo it without there being pain.
You know, and even our like most kidkind of literature, I was like, when you
watch The Lion King now, you're like,this is actually kind of messed up to
(32:57):
show to a six, like when you watch dogswatching The Lion King and being like,
whoa, Mufasa, and you know, and we're likethis, and we're like, whoa, and I'm like,
that's, that's a really messed up story.
That is a painful.
Horrible story that is a child livingwith the guilt of killing his father
(33:22):
Who is not only the king of Pride Rock,but the entire sun in the sky You know
this like Simba is a story of shame andovercoming that shame in that shadow
and Needing a very sexy Nala to comeand be like get your act together You
know like that's what the story is andso Like, even our youngest stories,
(33:45):
our most iconic stories, are filledwith horrible pain, tragedy and loss.
You know?
And now we try and soften it, but whenit hits us in life, it's not soft.
It's awful.
It's awful.
It's like, like, I don't know, I feellike I'm sensing someone's pain in the
room right now because it doesn't feellike my pain, but it's hitting my heart.
(34:08):
You know?
And also, So that's why I don'tdo it just to laugh gleefully
and be like, I've made him cry.
No, I don't do that.
I might do that singing thing,but not because of your tears.
(34:30):
Okay.
That brings me comfort.
That brings me comfort.
Although I do want to saythat book three is pain.
It's called anguish.
I will not, I will not say anything.
I was like, at least it's,I didn't, did I, did I lie?
Did she lie?
(34:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Subbed.
I did.
Subbed.
I did.
Um, I want to ask as well forthe finale and the book series.
Is there anything that you reallywanted to include but didn't get to?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, let's do something for bookone or book two, like, without
any spoilers for book three.
Well, I'll, well, I'll say this,because I feel like in a month I'll
(35:13):
be able to talk about book three, andI'll be able to answer the question
that I think most readers will have.
There was a version of book threethat had about, like, 200 extra pages.
I know, here's the thing, guys.
Here's the thing, you alwaystweet me, you always tweet me,
and you're like, we want them all.
(35:33):
Cut nothing.
Give them all.
Give us everything.
No.
No.
Um, I think the difference between thewriter I am now and the writer I was
when I started is I would say thereis a bit of a ruthlessness of pen.
(35:58):
And a ruthlessness of, I wantto do this for these reasons.
I want to do this for a personal reason,but if I am going to give dignity to
the real situation that these charactersare in, this doesn't make any sense.
Um, and if I'm going to give dignity tolike this culture I've built, then this
(36:18):
culture I brought in that has like twolines, it's, it's, it's, it's not working.
It's not working.
So it, it's sort of like, um, I don'tknow why I'm seeing Masterchef Junior.
But I'm seeing Gordon Ramsay bakinga wedding cake, but I'm seeing
Masterchef Junior like above his head.
I don't, we'll talk about that in therapy.
(36:40):
But like, it's, it's, it's like you haveall the layers of the cake, you gotta
start sculpting, and you gotta carve down,and you have to be like, what is, what's
the actual rock, what's the diamond?
Um, so it's like I gave you thediamond, even though I want to give you.
the, kind of the opera, but I'm like,I got to give dignity to the story and
(37:03):
I got to give dignity to the charactersand you could only do so much at once.
Um, so yeah, well you'll have that fullanswer in like a month when I get to
talk about it, but see, no spoilers.
Prepare the book clubs,prepare the book clubs.
There are book clubs.
I know we're going to be onlinein like a month too, because
again, Kris Jenner works hard.
(37:24):
Zai works harder.
So, we'll have more.
Yeah.
Um, so, you have a QR codethat you can actually scan to
ask your questions, so Cute!
Yes.
Right here, and also on your screensas well for the people at the back.
I'm going to start readingout as well the questions.
So, um, Stella asked, which characterwas the most difficult to write?
(37:49):
Stella, are you here?
Yay.
Hi, Stella
Oh.
Oh, this is so fun.
Um, I, the most difficult characterto write initially was Amari,
(38:09):
because Amari didn't exist inthe inception of the story.
I know.
You're like, what?
What?
This is why we come.
This is why you're here,because now you know.
And then someone will be like, Ohyeah, I really love this character.
You're like, Did you know actually inthe original inception of the story,
like, you know, this is why we're hereto stunt on people with knowledge.
(38:30):
So in the original inception of thestory, I knew I had the world of Aresha.
I had Xaeli.
I knew there was a scroll thatshe could use to bring magic back.
And I knew that there was aprince that was against her.
But I needed a way toget the scroll to Xaeli.
(38:52):
And so for a plot reason, Amari was born.
And in the early drafts ofchildren, I mean the draft you
guys read was like draft 40.
Um, so in the early drafts, likethe first 20 drafts, it was very
difficult for me to hone Amari's voice.
Cause whenever I would get to her, like,I was, I was very Xaeli coded at the time.
(39:15):
So I would get to her and I'd be like,Oh, it's Sandy in the desert, princess.
And like, you know, like, Likehaving snark against your characters.
Um, And, but then we get tothe, the ship battle scene.
And here's the thing.
Like, I way more resonate as ahuman with Amari in the ship battle
(39:37):
scene than with any other character.
Like, that's actually crazy.
And, and that moment where she's like, Ihave to do this, like, Xaeli's in trouble.
And, and she takes the knife, andlike, she, she makes her first kill.
Um, that's when I started tosay, there's something about you.
(39:59):
And then by the end of the story, like,now my favorite line, In that entire
book is when she stabs King Saron.
And she's like, don't worry,I will be a better queen.
And ooh, in Spanish.
That line, when I got the script.
(40:20):
And she's like, And I was like,
Like it is very good in Spanish.
I cannot wait for this Spanish dub.
I'm going to be like, that'sgoing to be on all the time.
Um, That's the moment Icannot wait for in the movie.
And there's a lot of moments, butthat's the one where I'm gonna get
(40:44):
like, tip over the movie thing,like throw my popcorn at the screen.
And I don't condone making a mess.
I actually don't, but I'm goingto be so hype because I'm like,
yeah, I'm like, yeah, glow.
That's how I feel about Amari.
I'm like stabbing and stabbingand taking king tomes.
Yeah, glow.
Like that's how I feelabout Amari by the end.
(41:05):
She became my favorite character.
I think she has the most beautifularc in book one and gosh, I can't
wait to see who gets to be Amaria.
That's great.
Um, I can't wait.
I'm, I'm fascinated by her.
So it's very, it's kind of a beautifulthing about the creative process.
Like the, something that you're like,Oh, why does this have to be here?
(41:29):
That becomes, in my opinion,the most powerful arc.
in that entire story.
Thank you, Stella.
Okay.
Next we have Kristen who said,I've listened to audio versions
of book one and two, and BarneyTopin is an absolute legend.
(41:50):
I'm so excited to hear what CynthiaErivo will bring to Zelie's version.
I also want to say, into this question,Auntie Cintia, she has given me her
permission to actually call her likethat, you know, she commented on one,
under one of my videos, she said youcan call me like that, so Auntie Cintia.
Okay, okay, Zai, you see this networker?
(42:11):
So, you know, like, how was it toalso like bring her to life, you
know, to kind of like give an insightto how her voice and her acting, you
know, brings this whole new voiceto Children of Anguish and Anarchy?
Yeah, it was, they asked me inthe beginning, they were like,
Okay, do you want kind of whatguidelines do you want to give her?
(42:32):
And I was like, I don't want to giveher, I was like, I want she's an artist.
I was like, And her, to me, hergreatest artistry is her voice.
I was like, I want herto use her artistry.
I don't want to put like, Oh, we, we didit like this, or we said it like this.
I'm like, I think the beauty, cause it'slike, I love Bonnie Turpin and so many
(42:54):
of my readers, like she won audio bookof the year with children of blood and
bone, like Bonnie Turpin is incredible.
So it's like.
the only reason I was like, I wantthis, I want to make this happen is
because one, Cynthia was so passionate.
And two, I thought it'd be sobeautiful to have another Nigerian
(43:16):
bringing this to life and, andjust a creative collaboration.
And, and it gives me chills.
Her, her, like, I waslike rendition narration.
It gives me chills.
I really like, I, I can't go through like.
I can do like maybe four minutes andthen I'm like and we'll see you next
(43:38):
week Because it's just it's very itit overwhelms me And I don't like
to be overwhelmed so So yeah, no,it's really incredible I love that.
Like, I just want to like, listen toit just to have her voice in my head.
Um, but also like, Cintia River is anactress and I do have to ask the question.
(43:59):
Yes.
You know, in terms of big names forthe movie, you know, there's this,
there's this little group of likeNigerian actors like John Boyega, all
of that, you know, you know, okay, okay.
Are there any of those big names that
I can't talk about who I wantin the movie anymore because
(44:22):
we start casting next month.
So,
yeah, and I am, there are certain people,you know, we've talked to certain people
about certain things and there are somethings I'm, dying to scream at you guys
(44:43):
so we could all be like but Like you knowhow like Tom Holland was the problem child
of the Avengers and he was always givingthings I like I don't want Paramount
to know that I am the Tom Holland
So I've been on my best Um, and haven'tsaid anything, but like now I can't
say it because if I go like, Oh myGod, I'd love for this person to be,
(45:06):
and then like this person gets it.
And then I meet that person on set andthen they're like, Oh, hey, tell me.
And I'm like, well, no,we're not doing this.
We're not doing this.
Don't don't let's not, Idon't want this energy on set.
Um, but I will say of the conversationswe've had, the things that have struck
me the most is like the humility.
that people are bringing to this project.
(45:26):
Both, like, in front of thescreen and behind the screen.
Cause, you know, we're talkingto, like, Academy Award nominated,
like, production designers.
Like, people who have designedcostumes that have, like, touched
pop culture and, like, made waves.
And, like, even these actorsand actresses that have been
in, like, billion dollar movies.
Like, we're talking to people.
(45:48):
The, there's just this sort of joinedphilosophy, joint philosophy of
like, we want to create from hereand bring something to the people.
And I think that's very oppositeof what Hollywood typically is.
Cause I think Hollywood is typically like,
(46:12):
Peasants here, you know,like, and you know, there was,
there was an age for that.
There was an age for that glamour andthat this, but I think it's really
beautiful to, to have people comingtogether, not just with passion for
the project, but, but passion forthe people who the project is for.
Um, yeah, so we're, we'rein a beautiful spot.
(46:35):
I've always told you guys,like, look at my eyes.
You know, because contractually Iprobably can't say what's, if it's bad,
but look at my eyes and my eyes willtell you, um, we're in an amazing spot.
We're in an amazing spot.
Like the things I've even seen off likea, like a choreographed fight scene.
(46:57):
Xaeli, her staff, versus 20 guards,and then I had to destroy the footage.
Like, that's how, like, I was like,we're moving, and like, there, I,
Gina Prince Bythewood, I was like,she's a Gemini, but I promise you
she is the general of Ba Sing Se.
I promise you.
And I tell her every day, I'm like, Ican't wait to read your birth chart.
(47:19):
And she's like, great.
Can you tell me this?
And I was like, yes.
And I can't wait toknow what your moon is.
I know you got to have it be a Virgo moon.
I know you got, because it's like she,
this is her.
And this is the entire production.
Steady.
Gina and time, like time knows no enemy.
(47:40):
She's gonna be like, you're,she's already told me I'm crazy.
And I was like, I am.
And I'm in service of you.
So like the combination of all ofthis We're, we're not just coming
for, for, like, Twilight, HungerGames, Potter, Black Panther.
It's like, we're, we're, we're, we'recoming from Lord of the Rings throat.
(48:05):
Okay?
We're coming.
We're, we're competitive.
We're like, no, this is war.
This is a movie.
And this movie is war.
And it's time to like, there shouldbe no movies after this movie.
It should be illegal.
In my country.
So anyway, it's like,we launched the movie.
(48:27):
I launched my reign as queenof the United, I don't know.
We'll, we'll, we'llgroup, think a good name.
Um, but yes, it's, it's gonna be amazing.
It's going to be,
It's gonna be a, it's, it's, I'm,I was gonna say a time turner, but
it is, it is gonna be a landmark.
(48:48):
Not just for our people, not justfor our souls, but for cinema.
Yeah.
Children and Blood and Bone to the world!
That's what's going to happen.
We have Christine who's asking, howdo you ground yourself enough to write
(49:10):
thematically about traumatic eventsthat we are still living through?
Where's Christine?
Hi.
Wow.
Wow.
What a question.
(49:30):
I don't, not that I don't know how to lie.
Um,
I think at this point of my career,
I am no longer living in the traumasthat I am actively writing about.
(49:53):
So for book one, book two and bookthree, I was actively living in
whatever pain that I was writing about.
Um, so there was no grounding and
That's not a sustainablething, we'll at least say.
Especially for like seven ish years.
(50:15):
Um, I was always in the midst of thestorm that I was putting on page.
And that was just what myheart was going through.
And then there was deadlines and marketingand like all these different things and
you know, like I know I've talked about iton some interviews But a big reason book
three took such a long time is becauseI got really sick in like 2021 and so if
(50:41):
it was five years between book Two andbook three like for three of those years.
I was really really sick for aboutone and a half of those years, I
was recovering from being sick.
So book three was written almostentirely in sickness and it took
a long time because of that.
And so I just finished my fourthnovel two weeks ago and it's up.
(51:08):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Um, it is not set in thisworld, so it's a new series.
But I wrote it in six months.
And it was the first time I wasn'twriting about the storm I was in.
(51:28):
I, the way I described it is I was like,it was like I could see the storm I was
in and I was sitting, if it was over thewater, I was like sitting on an inlet
and I had like a canvas on an easel andI was painting it and it was so, Ooh.
(51:49):
It was intensely beautifulto witness that storm.
And very scary to realizethat I was in that storm.
Because, again, this was the first timeI was painting the storm from a distance.
So, I think now, Like around the eightyear mark in my career, I have the tools
(52:14):
as a human being, whether that be Liketherapy, journaling, community, not
locking yourself in the dark for hours,um, and weeks on end, and just writing.
Being able to communicate whenI need more time on a deadline.
being able to build a marketingcampaign that doesn't result
(52:37):
in me getting very sick.
Like it was a bit of learn.
I don't want to say trial and error.
It's like you can only know you.
Something I learned about life as areform perfectionist is like, Oh, the
best thing you can do is just learn.
You are going to make mistakes.
You are going to make errors.
You're going to make giant mistakes.
(52:59):
It's actually about the course correction.
And it's about if you keep making the samemistake again and again and again, that's
when you can start being mad at yourself.
But you, you don't have to be upset aboutyourself for any mistake for any time.
You're like, why did I go left whenI clearly could have gone right?
Like life has, what's it called?
(53:22):
It's not bandwidth slack.
I found life actuallyhas some slack in it.
And so if you were making yourbest effort every day, like,
like you, it'll be alright.
And that's what I found.
So now I'm very grounded.
But I'm not living through the storms.
(53:43):
I, I face the storms.
And then I paint about it.
And I, I, I find that it's beena really beautiful way of also
just rehabilitating my creativity.
Um, So yeah, that's, that's the answer.
That's an amazing question.
(54:05):
We're gonna go for, this is it.
One more question.
One more question, come on.
Um, choose wisely.
One more question from Mo who said, ifyou had to name the ideal song or album
to pair with this book, what would it be?
Oh, Haha.
(54:29):
Haha.
Haha.
Sorry.
He said, not give you buck.
And I was like, this book is infive parts for part one, I think
around chapter like seven or eight,you could start playing that.
And you know, you just see Zalee laughing.
(54:49):
See the things that give me delight.
Um,
There is one song by Chelsea Wolfe.
It's called, I thinkit's called The Waves.
And when you listen to it, so it'snot even an album, it's one song.
I would say that, that isthe emotion of this book.
(55:13):
It's a really deep song.
Um, it's also beautiful.
It's sorrow, it's full of sorrow,but it's also full of catharsis.
And I think especially towards the end,I wrote the end of this book to that song
and repeat again and again and again.
And it was the most intensewriting experience I have ever had.
So, that, that's the song,if, if there's a song.
(55:38):
And then, I imagine, I'll cheat it,there's a vocal group called The Faux
Paws, and they have a acapella cover.
version of The Dog Days Are Over.
And I always imagine thatplaying at the very end.
(55:58):
And I won't say anymore.
No spoilers.
See, you know, we've been locked in.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Tomi.
This is the end of our conversation.
Thank you.
Tomi!
Give it up for Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
(56:19):
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
Tomi!
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