July 24, 2025 • 23 mins
The parable of the Ten Virgins serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of genuine spiritual readiness for Christ's return, distinguishing between those who are merely religious and those who are truly transformed.
• True salvation produces evident fruit in a believer's life
• Many churchgoers may embrace religion without true transformation
• Many love the concept of Christianity without embracing its cost
• Authentic faith requires total commitment rather than partial religious observance
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right.
Well, welcome back to the MainThing Podcast with Pastor Steve.
I'm Brent and we are looking atthe Ten Virgins today.
I know that means a lot ofdifferent things to a lot of
people, but we're going from thebiblicalgins today.
I know that means a lot ofdifferent things to a lot of
people, but we're going from thebiblical perspective today
Spiritual readiness in anuncertain world.
So, pastor Steve, welcomeThanks for joining me.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I want to start out with a question.
See how good your memory is.
When you were a teenager, backin the 70s, there was a song by
a guy named Larry Norman.
It started I wish we had allbeen what Ready.
Wish we'd all been ready.
I remember the chorus soclearly.
Of course I was in the 90s, soI was familiar with the DC Talk
version.
It said there's no time tochange your mind.
(01:15):
The sun has come and you'vebeen left behind.
And that's really what we'retalking about today.
Is what does it mean to bespiritually prepared for
Christ's coming?
So, if you will, we're going tobe in Matthew 25, 1 through 13
today.
Would you just kind of give usa rundown of this parable?
This was a parable Jesus gaveus about being spiritually ready
in this world.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, you got to understand the elements of the
parable.
You know, the bridegroom is arepresentation of Christ and the
virgins represent us asindividuals on planet Earth.
The wedding feast is the timewhen Christ will return and call
(02:00):
his church home those who arein his family, and call his
church home those who are in hisfamily.
The oil represents, I believe,the work of the Holy Spirit in
us that gives us the ability tohave faith and to believe in our
Savior, and so it is aparable-like picture to help us
(02:23):
see the greater truth thatChrist is coming back, and we
need to be prepared for that.
In the Jewish world, a young manthat was engaged to a young
woman would not marry her rightaway.
He would prepare for herarrival, and so he would
(02:47):
traditionally build a home, orbuild on to his parents' home
where he and her would live, andwhenever he was finished with
the construction, he had hishouse in order, he would go to
get her.
Now, jesus has told us that hewent to prepare a place for us,
that, where he is, we can bealso.
(03:09):
So, theoretically, what weunderstand with that is is that
Christ is in heaven and,whatever that means, he's
preparing for our arrival andwhen we least expect it, he's
going to come and call us tohimself.
(03:29):
So that's the overall picture.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So there's 10 versions.
Five of them have oil in theirlamps and are ready to go.
Five of them do not have oil ontheir lamps.
So obviously the ones with oilin their lamps are prepared.
They are ready for the comingof the bridegroom.
So, in this day and age, whatdoes it look like to be
spiritually prepared forChrist's coming?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, I think we got to be careful, especially in our
theology.
Historically, you know thisonce saved, always saved
teaching that we have is thatyou prayed a little prayer at
the front of church one Sundayand now you're saved and sealed
for all eternity.
(04:13):
And it doesn't matter how youlive or what you do, you're
saved.
And I certainly believe inGod's ability, when he saves
someone, to save someone.
But Scripture is very clearthat not everybody who claims to
be saved will be saved and thatthere is evidence in a saved
(04:34):
person's life.
That's very obvious.
They produce fruit, they, andso the five virgins with the oil
in their lamps are those whom Ibelieve have genuinely been
saved by Christ.
They've counted the cost andthey're living their lives in
(04:56):
such a way that they'reanticipating his coming back.
Average Christian ought not havea death wish, but there ought
to be a little bit of a desireinside of them to be called home
, to be with Jesus.
That's what Paul said, you know.
He said if they kill me, I getto go live with Jesus, and I
(05:21):
think we all ought to have thatmentality as we live our life.
So if the Holy Spirit isrepresented in the oil, which I
believe it is, then those fivevirgins show a lack of the Holy
Spirit in their life, whichmeans they most likely were not
believers in the Lord JesusChrist, they were not his
(05:43):
children, and so the powerfulthing of this parable is, when
they get there, the five withthe oil in their lamps are
invited in, and then the door isshut.
It's too late for oil in yourlamps.
Another powerful truth in thisparable is that the five without
(06:05):
the oil wanted to get oil fromthe five who had it, and we
often say God has nograndchildren, only children,
and so you cannot give anotherperson your salvation experience
.
You cannot give another personthe presence of the Holy Spirit.
This comes only from Godhimself, and if you don't have
(06:26):
it, when the time comes, thebridegroom Jesus returns for his
church.
It's too late.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I'm going to read you a couple of verses.
I just want you to comment onthem.
1 John, 2.28.
It says so that we may haveconfidence and not be ashamed at
his coming.
And then Philippians 2.12,where Paul ends that verse by
saying work out your salvationwith fear and trembling.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
How does working out your salvation help with that
confidence?
Because John 2.28 seems to saythat we can have oil but not be
really ready in the way we needto be.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Well, that's possible too.
I think we have a lot of and Iuse this word carefully.
I think we have a lot ofChristians who live a mediocre
existence in their walk withChrist.
They're not necessarily lost,but you couldn't say they have a
sweet presence of Jesus livingin them or that they're even
(07:29):
continuing to grow.
They're probably stagnant intheir walk.
But I think Scripture just hastoo many teachings.
We talked about it recently inchurch.
You know where Jesus says noteveryone that says to me Lord,
lord will enter my kingdom Towork out your salvation.
(07:50):
What that verse means is thatonce you're saved, you're now
living for Christ and it's adaily walk, it's a daily journey
, it's a daily experience and inthat experience you're being
tested, you're being tempted bySatan.
(08:11):
You're growing stronger attimes in your faith walk.
You're struggling some days.
So working out your salvationis the process of growing out.
Your salvation is the processof growing.
It doesn't mean that you'reearning your salvation by any
means.
It means that you're in theprocess of growing in your walk
(08:33):
with Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So, and you'll probably remember this at some
point, you know, somebody askedBilly Graham years and years ago
what did he think was thepercentage of people in church
who are actually Christians?
And I've heard differentnumbers over the years, but it
generally seems he saidsomething around 20%, maybe you
know.
So for those people, those 80%of people sitting in the church
(08:58):
thinking man, I'm good to go,how can they know they're not?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah.
Well.
Billy Graham was also asked ifhe could only preach one sermon,
what would he preach and wherewould he preach it?
And he said I'd preach thegospel of salvation in church,
because he believed most peoplein church were actually lost.
And that conversation was basedaround the fact that so many
(09:25):
Christians have no fruit intheir lives.
You know, we know Jesus walkedup on a fig tree and it had no
figs and he cursed it.
He killed it, right.
And yet we have this mentalitythat we got saved at age eight
and it doesn't matter.
God's obligated to take me toheaven and I don't see that in
(09:46):
Scripture.
We have to be fruit-bearing toshow evidence of that
relationship with Christ and Ithink this is what Billy Graham
was seeing is that we have somany people that have bought the
lie of religion.
They go to church, they checkthe box, they feel like they've
(10:07):
done a good thing, you know, andlike I said in the last
broadcast, they don't drink,cuss, chew or run with girls
that do, they don't kick theirdog.
Surely, they're going to heaven.
The problem is, when you readyour Bible, that's not what
going to heaven is based on.
(10:28):
It's based on a radical changein one's life done in the power
of Christ, when one submitstheir life to Christ.
Now I lead people in thesinner's prayer all the time and
there's a lot of criticismabout it, but I see it only as
an avenue to help a person makea commitment, and then I explain
(10:51):
to them now, what you're doingin this moment is you're
committing your life to Christ.
You're all in with him.
He's your boss, man, from thisday forward.
Do you understand?
That's what you're doing?
But I think for a long time inthis country, all we did and we
(11:13):
meant well was lead people inthe sinner's prayer and now you
in and we failed to teach themwhat it meant to be in I pray.
I'm never guilty of helpingthem understand, of not helping
them understand what it meanswhen you pray that prayer or you
(11:34):
make that commitment to Christ.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, you know, I think, when I think back to when
we all those years ago westarted talking about a covenant
class, a membership class, Ithink that was one of the
reasons is that we want to makesure everybody who joins with
covenant understands whatsalvation is.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
How can you serve and worship holy God if you've not
experienced holy God and worshipholy God?
If you've not experienced holyGod, if you've not made a
commitment to him?
We don't desire anybody come bea part of our fellowship who
just wants to be a part of achurch.
That's not going to do them anygood and it's not accomplishing
(12:16):
the goal that Christ gave us,which is to reach them for the
kingdom.
And so you know, I'm afraid inAmerica today, if we're not
careful, we've designed churchwhere we're the cool church we
got the most to offer.
We can do this for you, we cando that for you, we can do this
(12:37):
for you, we can do that for you.
Really, all we can do foranybody is share the gospel with
them.
That's all we really can do.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Anything else is just accommodation.
So my next question I wouldhave for you then can we in fact
be a follower of Christ but becomplacent?
Where does spiritualcomplacency come?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
from.
Yes, I think every human being,with the exception of maybe a
rare one here and there, hastimes of complacency.
You know, as a pastor, I'd bethe first to admit and this will
shock some people you know I goout there week after week to
preach and I'll be honest withyou, there's some weeks maybe
(13:26):
it's been a difficult week,maybe I've dealt with some
difficult people, maybe oldSatan's wailing on me.
I just don't feel like I'mprepared to climb into that
pulpit and preach the Word ofGod today because I don't feel
like I'm spiritually where Iought to be.
But you know, in the Americanmindset they're paying you to do
(13:48):
that, so you got to do your job.
It would be so refreshing if Icould call one of you guys on
Wednesday and say man, I'm notwhere I need to be this Sunday,
can you preach?
You know I'm not where I needto be this Sunday, can you
preach?
I think we'd be better off as achurch if we had that kind of
freedom, but unfortunately wedon't.
(14:08):
So I think any Christian we'renaive to believe that we're not
all attacked by Satan, we don'tall struggle, that life doesn't
wail on us and we just get tiredand beat down.
I think we all go through thosemoments and I am not
insinuating in any way.
(14:29):
That means you're lost, but itmeans that your relationship is
not where it needs to be.
A marriage is a great example.
There are times with yourspouse where you feel very close
and there's a sweetness thereand you know, my wife tells me I
love you, I always love you.
(14:50):
There's some days I don't likeyou and I get it.
I get it because I know me rightand I think maybe that's God's
relationship with us.
I think he loves us every daythat we're taken in air.
But there's some days he looksdown at us and we probably
(15:10):
grieve him because as we workout our salvation, we're just
not in a good place.
That day we're struggling, youknow.
Yeah, I don't think that meansyou're lost by any means.
Uh, because to be complacentinsinuates to me at least.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It's not a place where you stay, it's more of a
season that we go throughsometimes so how do we know the
difference between we're in thisseason and we come out, or we
never had any spirituality ofChrist to be complacent about?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, boy, that's a good question.
I think if you're genuinely achild of God, you're not likely
to stay in a complacent statelong term.
And look, that's a relativestatement.
If we're just dealing with aperson who's going through, say,
depression.
(16:06):
They've lost a loved one,they've lost a job, they're in a
season of life where life hasbeat them down and they just
don't feel close to God, theydon't feel spiritual, they don't
feel the connection.
They have to be reminded.
It's more than a feeling, it'sa promise and we all tend to
(16:27):
react from feelings.
Feelings are legitimate, butyou got to be careful letting
them control your thinking.
So I think a person who has agenuine relationship with Christ
, so I think a person who has agenuine relationship with Christ
, will come out of that at somepoint.
I don't believe they'll staythere.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You know we're recording this on Thursday
mornings.
We had Wednesday night Biblestudy last night and I remember
talking with my class.
One of the things we talkedabout was the idea of something
versus actually doing it.
And I use the example.
I love the idea of readingclassic books.
I think that's neat and I'dlove to be that guy who says why
(17:11):
.
Last night I read War and Peace.
It was quite good.
I like the idea of readingthose way more than I actually
do.
Why do you think we have somany people who like the idea of
church and they like the ideaof Christianity but they don't
really want to do it?
In other words, why do we likethe appearance and not the
(17:32):
nitty-gritty?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Well, in its simplest form, the idea of Jesus, this
amazing moral person who came toplanet Earth and lived this
incredible life, is a lofty goalto live like him.
Furthermore, the idea, theconcept that I can have eternal
(17:55):
life okay, and the Christianlife, at least in our culture,
historically in America, is acommendable life, a respectable
life.
You know, charles Darwin'smother insisted he be a minister
because during the time helived, to be a minister was the
(18:17):
loftiest job you could have.
So he actually went off andstudied for the ministry for two
years before leaving.
I think it was Oxford inEngland where he was sent to
study for the ministry.
And so we still have a littleof that, this being in love with
the idea of Jesus, the idea ofChristianity.
(18:40):
It's positive, it's lofty, itsounds good and maybe in our
simplest way of thinking, wefeel like it makes us better in
some way.
But I think Scripture's clearbeing in love with the idea of
Jesus is going to leave youshort.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So however many percentage you know, as somebody
who works here at Covenant, I'dlove to say our percentage of
people in the pews that knowChrist is way more than 20%.
I think sometimes it's veryhard to know that percentage.
But what do we say to somebodywho doesn't have the oil on
their lamps?
How would you say this is howyou get the oil on your lamp
(19:34):
this is how you get the oil inyour lamp.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Oh well, I think the gospel, the presentation of
Christ, that he gave his lifefor you, he shed his blood for
you.
You were a sinner in your sinnature, separated from a
relationship with holy God andGod, as Romans 5.8 says, before
you even realized you had aproblem, fixed your problem for
you and he presents the solutionto you, and that is accept
(20:01):
Christ as your Savior, as yourKing, as your Lord, and commit
yourself to him.
And Scripture's clear withoutregret, without remorse, without
looking back on the old life,and march forward.
That's what it means to be abeliever in the Lord Jesus
(20:21):
Christ.
In my own life.
And look, I've had a wonderfullife serving my Savior, life
serving my Savior.
But like anybody else, I've hada lot of times in my life that
(20:45):
if I were not committed, justlike serving anything else, and
when you serve Christ, if you'renot careful, you tend to start
thinking that you shouldn't haveto be challenged, you shouldn't
struggle, you shouldn't have todeal with hard things because
(21:06):
you're a Christian after all,right?
Well, scripture never teachesus that.
In fact, jesus says theypersecuted me, they're going to
persecute you.
What in the world has given usthis idea that Christianity is
easy.
All around the world right now,and on the African continent
(21:27):
especially.
World right now, and on theAfrican continent especially,
christians are being murdereddaily just for believing in
Christ.
Islam is trying everything theycan in that part of the world
to destroy the Christian church.
And yet in our culture here inAmerica, you know, we come to
Christ as if he's the Godfatheron a cloud handing out ice cream
(21:50):
cones.
And so we have to teach peopleit's only by the blood of Christ
shed on the cross and that whenthey accept that, that it means
they're willing to go and diefor him, they're all in, they're
giving their life to him,they're committing to him 100%.
(22:12):
And that's where I think thedifference is.
I think we have a lot of peopletoday who are committed to
Christ 10%, 20%, whatever.
I'll come to church, I'll givea little something once in a
while.
You know I'll do this if I haveto.
Those to me are screamingstatements that they don't
(22:37):
really understand what thatcommitment means.
And so that is our greatestchallenge not only to help
people come to Christ, but tohelp them understand what that
means.
Not only to help people come toChrist but to help them
understand what that means.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, thank you, pat Steve, for talking with us today
, guys, if you are listeningtoday, I thank y'all so much for
being a part of this.
I pray that, as we said earlier, you can have confidence and
not be ashamed at the coming ofChrist.
So thank you for being herewith us for the Main of Christ.
So thank you for being herewith us for the main thing.
Podcast.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right.
Well, welcome back to the MainThing Podcast with Pastor Steve.
I'm Brent and we are looking atthe Ten Virgins today.
I know that means a lot ofdifferent things to a lot of
people, but we're going from thebiblicalgins today.
I know that means a lot ofdifferent things to a lot of
people, but we're going from thebiblical perspective today
Spiritual readiness in anuncertain world.
So, pastor Steve, welcomeThanks for joining me.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I want to start out with a question.
See how good your memory is.
When you were a teenager, backin the 70s, there was a song by
a guy named Larry Norman.
It started I wish we had allbeen what Ready.
Wish we'd all been ready.
I remember the chorus soclearly.
Of course I was in the 90s, soI was familiar with the DC Talk
version.
It said there's no time tochange your mind.
(01:15):
The sun has come and you'vebeen left behind.
And that's really what we'retalking about today.
Is what does it mean to bespiritually prepared for
Christ's coming?
So, if you will, we're going tobe in Matthew 25, 1 through 13
today.
Would you just kind of give usa rundown of this parable?
This was a parable Jesus gaveus about being spiritually ready
in this world.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, you got to understand the elements of the
parable.
You know, the bridegroom is arepresentation of Christ and the
virgins represent us asindividuals on planet Earth.
The wedding feast is the timewhen Christ will return and call
(02:00):
his church home those who arein his family, and call his
church home those who are in hisfamily.
The oil represents, I believe,the work of the Holy Spirit in
us that gives us the ability tohave faith and to believe in our
Savior, and so it is aparable-like picture to help us
(02:23):
see the greater truth thatChrist is coming back, and we
need to be prepared for that.
In the Jewish world, a young manthat was engaged to a young
woman would not marry her rightaway.
He would prepare for herarrival, and so he would
(02:47):
traditionally build a home, orbuild on to his parents' home
where he and her would live, andwhenever he was finished with
the construction, he had hishouse in order, he would go to
get her.
Now, jesus has told us that hewent to prepare a place for us,
that, where he is, we can bealso.
(03:09):
So, theoretically, what weunderstand with that is is that
Christ is in heaven and,whatever that means, he's
preparing for our arrival andwhen we least expect it, he's
going to come and call us tohimself.
(03:29):
So that's the overall picture.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So there's 10 versions.
Five of them have oil in theirlamps and are ready to go.
Five of them do not have oil ontheir lamps.
So obviously the ones with oilin their lamps are prepared.
They are ready for the comingof the bridegroom.
So, in this day and age, whatdoes it look like to be
spiritually prepared forChrist's coming?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, I think we got to be careful, especially in our
theology.
Historically, you know thisonce saved, always saved
teaching that we have is thatyou prayed a little prayer at
the front of church one Sundayand now you're saved and sealed
for all eternity.
(04:13):
And it doesn't matter how youlive or what you do, you're
saved.
And I certainly believe inGod's ability, when he saves
someone, to save someone.
But Scripture is very clearthat not everybody who claims to
be saved will be saved and thatthere is evidence in a saved
(04:34):
person's life.
That's very obvious.
They produce fruit, they, andso the five virgins with the oil
in their lamps are those whom Ibelieve have genuinely been
saved by Christ.
They've counted the cost andthey're living their lives in
(04:56):
such a way that they'reanticipating his coming back.
Average Christian ought not havea death wish, but there ought
to be a little bit of a desireinside of them to be called home
, to be with Jesus.
That's what Paul said, you know.
He said if they kill me, I getto go live with Jesus, and I
(05:21):
think we all ought to have thatmentality as we live our life.
So if the Holy Spirit isrepresented in the oil, which I
believe it is, then those fivevirgins show a lack of the Holy
Spirit in their life, whichmeans they most likely were not
believers in the Lord JesusChrist, they were not his
(05:43):
children, and so the powerfulthing of this parable is, when
they get there, the five withthe oil in their lamps are
invited in, and then the door isshut.
It's too late for oil in yourlamps.
Another powerful truth in thisparable is that the five without
(06:05):
the oil wanted to get oil fromthe five who had it, and we
often say God has nograndchildren, only children,
and so you cannot give anotherperson your salvation experience
.
You cannot give another personthe presence of the Holy Spirit.
This comes only from Godhimself, and if you don't have
(06:26):
it, when the time comes, thebridegroom Jesus returns for his
church.
It's too late.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I'm going to read you a couple of verses.
I just want you to comment onthem.
1 John, 2.28.
It says so that we may haveconfidence and not be ashamed at
his coming.
And then Philippians 2.12,where Paul ends that verse by
saying work out your salvationwith fear and trembling.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
How does working out your salvation help with that
confidence?
Because John 2.28 seems to saythat we can have oil but not be
really ready in the way we needto be.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Well, that's possible too.
I think we have a lot of and Iuse this word carefully.
I think we have a lot ofChristians who live a mediocre
existence in their walk withChrist.
They're not necessarily lost,but you couldn't say they have a
sweet presence of Jesus livingin them or that they're even
(07:29):
continuing to grow.
They're probably stagnant intheir walk.
But I think Scripture just hastoo many teachings.
We talked about it recently inchurch.
You know where Jesus says noteveryone that says to me Lord,
lord will enter my kingdom Towork out your salvation.
(07:50):
What that verse means is thatonce you're saved, you're now
living for Christ and it's adaily walk, it's a daily journey
, it's a daily experience and inthat experience you're being
tested, you're being tempted bySatan.
(08:11):
You're growing stronger attimes in your faith walk.
You're struggling some days.
So working out your salvationis the process of growing out.
Your salvation is the processof growing.
It doesn't mean that you'reearning your salvation by any
means.
It means that you're in theprocess of growing in your walk
(08:33):
with Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So, and you'll probably remember this at some
point, you know, somebody askedBilly Graham years and years ago
what did he think was thepercentage of people in church
who are actually Christians?
And I've heard differentnumbers over the years, but it
generally seems he saidsomething around 20%, maybe you
know.
So for those people, those 80%of people sitting in the church
(08:58):
thinking man, I'm good to go,how can they know they're not?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah.
Well.
Billy Graham was also asked ifhe could only preach one sermon,
what would he preach and wherewould he preach it?
And he said I'd preach thegospel of salvation in church,
because he believed most peoplein church were actually lost.
And that conversation was basedaround the fact that so many
(09:25):
Christians have no fruit intheir lives.
You know, we know Jesus walkedup on a fig tree and it had no
figs and he cursed it.
He killed it, right.
And yet we have this mentalitythat we got saved at age eight
and it doesn't matter.
God's obligated to take me toheaven and I don't see that in
(09:46):
Scripture.
We have to be fruit-bearing toshow evidence of that
relationship with Christ and Ithink this is what Billy Graham
was seeing is that we have somany people that have bought the
lie of religion.
They go to church, they checkthe box, they feel like they've
(10:07):
done a good thing, you know, andlike I said in the last
broadcast, they don't drink,cuss, chew or run with girls
that do, they don't kick theirdog.
Surely, they're going to heaven.
The problem is, when you readyour Bible, that's not what
going to heaven is based on.
(10:28):
It's based on a radical changein one's life done in the power
of Christ, when one submitstheir life to Christ.
Now I lead people in thesinner's prayer all the time and
there's a lot of criticismabout it, but I see it only as
an avenue to help a person makea commitment, and then I explain
(10:51):
to them now, what you're doingin this moment is you're
committing your life to Christ.
You're all in with him.
He's your boss, man, from thisday forward.
Do you understand?
That's what you're doing?
But I think for a long time inthis country, all we did and we
(11:13):
meant well was lead people inthe sinner's prayer and now you
in and we failed to teach themwhat it meant to be in I pray.
I'm never guilty of helpingthem understand, of not helping
them understand what it meanswhen you pray that prayer or you
(11:34):
make that commitment to Christ.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, you know, I think, when I think back to when
we all those years ago westarted talking about a covenant
class, a membership class, Ithink that was one of the
reasons is that we want to makesure everybody who joins with
covenant understands whatsalvation is.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
How can you serve and worship holy God if you've not
experienced holy God and worshipholy God?
If you've not experienced holyGod, if you've not made a
commitment to him?
We don't desire anybody come bea part of our fellowship who
just wants to be a part of achurch.
That's not going to do them anygood and it's not accomplishing
(12:16):
the goal that Christ gave us,which is to reach them for the
kingdom.
And so you know, I'm afraid inAmerica today, if we're not
careful, we've designed churchwhere we're the cool church we
got the most to offer.
We can do this for you, we cando that for you, we can do this
(12:37):
for you, we can do that for you.
Really, all we can do foranybody is share the gospel with
them.
That's all we really can do.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Anything else is just accommodation.
So my next question I wouldhave for you then can we in fact
be a follower of Christ but becomplacent?
Where does spiritualcomplacency come?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
from.
Yes, I think every human being,with the exception of maybe a
rare one here and there, hastimes of complacency.
You know, as a pastor, I'd bethe first to admit and this will
shock some people you know I goout there week after week to
preach and I'll be honest withyou, there's some weeks maybe
(13:26):
it's been a difficult week,maybe I've dealt with some
difficult people, maybe oldSatan's wailing on me.
I just don't feel like I'mprepared to climb into that
pulpit and preach the Word ofGod today because I don't feel
like I'm spiritually where Iought to be.
But you know, in the Americanmindset they're paying you to do
(13:48):
that, so you got to do your job.
It would be so refreshing if Icould call one of you guys on
Wednesday and say man, I'm notwhere I need to be this Sunday,
can you preach?
You know I'm not where I needto be this Sunday, can you
preach?
I think we'd be better off as achurch if we had that kind of
freedom, but unfortunately wedon't.
(14:08):
So I think any Christian we'renaive to believe that we're not
all attacked by Satan, we don'tall struggle, that life doesn't
wail on us and we just get tiredand beat down.
I think we all go through thosemoments and I am not
insinuating in any way.
(14:29):
That means you're lost, but itmeans that your relationship is
not where it needs to be.
A marriage is a great example.
There are times with yourspouse where you feel very close
and there's a sweetness thereand you know, my wife tells me I
love you, I always love you.
(14:50):
There's some days I don't likeyou and I get it.
I get it because I know me rightand I think maybe that's God's
relationship with us.
I think he loves us every daythat we're taken in air.
But there's some days he looksdown at us and we probably
(15:10):
grieve him because as we workout our salvation, we're just
not in a good place.
That day we're struggling, youknow.
Yeah, I don't think that meansyou're lost by any means.
Uh, because to be complacentinsinuates to me at least.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It's not a place where you stay, it's more of a
season that we go throughsometimes so how do we know the
difference between we're in thisseason and we come out, or we
never had any spirituality ofChrist to be complacent about?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, boy, that's a good question.
I think if you're genuinely achild of God, you're not likely
to stay in a complacent statelong term.
And look, that's a relativestatement.
If we're just dealing with aperson who's going through, say,
depression.
(16:06):
They've lost a loved one,they've lost a job, they're in a
season of life where life hasbeat them down and they just
don't feel close to God, theydon't feel spiritual, they don't
feel the connection.
They have to be reminded.
It's more than a feeling, it'sa promise and we all tend to
(16:27):
react from feelings.
Feelings are legitimate, butyou got to be careful letting
them control your thinking.
So I think a person who has agenuine relationship with Christ
, so I think a person who has agenuine relationship with Christ
, will come out of that at somepoint.
I don't believe they'll staythere.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You know we're recording this on Thursday
mornings.
We had Wednesday night Biblestudy last night and I remember
talking with my class.
One of the things we talkedabout was the idea of something
versus actually doing it.
And I use the example.
I love the idea of readingclassic books.
I think that's neat and I'dlove to be that guy who says why
(17:11):
.
Last night I read War and Peace.
It was quite good.
I like the idea of readingthose way more than I actually
do.
Why do you think we have somany people who like the idea of
church and they like the ideaof Christianity but they don't
really want to do it?
In other words, why do we likethe appearance and not the
(17:32):
nitty-gritty?
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Well, in its simplest form, the idea of Jesus, this
amazing moral person who came toplanet Earth and lived this
incredible life, is a lofty goalto live like him.
Furthermore, the idea, theconcept that I can have eternal
(17:55):
life okay, and the Christianlife, at least in our culture,
historically in America, is acommendable life, a respectable
life.
You know, charles Darwin'smother insisted he be a minister
because during the time helived, to be a minister was the
(18:17):
loftiest job you could have.
So he actually went off andstudied for the ministry for two
years before leaving.
I think it was Oxford inEngland where he was sent to
study for the ministry.
And so we still have a littleof that, this being in love with
the idea of Jesus, the idea ofChristianity.
(18:40):
It's positive, it's lofty, itsounds good and maybe in our
simplest way of thinking, wefeel like it makes us better in
some way.
But I think Scripture's clearbeing in love with the idea of
Jesus is going to leave youshort.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So however many percentage you know, as somebody
who works here at Covenant, I'dlove to say our percentage of
people in the pews that knowChrist is way more than 20%.
I think sometimes it's veryhard to know that percentage.
But what do we say to somebodywho doesn't have the oil on
their lamps?
How would you say this is howyou get the oil on your lamp
(19:34):
this is how you get the oil inyour lamp.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Oh well, I think the gospel, the presentation of
Christ, that he gave his lifefor you, he shed his blood for
you.
You were a sinner in your sinnature, separated from a
relationship with holy God andGod, as Romans 5.8 says, before
you even realized you had aproblem, fixed your problem for
you and he presents the solutionto you, and that is accept
(20:01):
Christ as your Savior, as yourKing, as your Lord, and commit
yourself to him.
And Scripture's clear withoutregret, without remorse, without
looking back on the old life,and march forward.
That's what it means to be abeliever in the Lord Jesus
(20:21):
Christ.
In my own life.
And look, I've had a wonderfullife serving my Savior, life
serving my Savior.
But like anybody else, I've hada lot of times in my life that
(20:45):
if I were not committed, justlike serving anything else, and
when you serve Christ, if you'renot careful, you tend to start
thinking that you shouldn't haveto be challenged, you shouldn't
struggle, you shouldn't have todeal with hard things because
(21:06):
you're a Christian after all,right?
Well, scripture never teachesus that.
In fact, jesus says theypersecuted me, they're going to
persecute you.
What in the world has given usthis idea that Christianity is
easy.
All around the world right now,and on the African continent
(21:27):
especially.
World right now, and on theAfrican continent especially,
christians are being murdereddaily just for believing in
Christ.
Islam is trying everything theycan in that part of the world
to destroy the Christian church.
And yet in our culture here inAmerica, you know, we come to
Christ as if he's the Godfatheron a cloud handing out ice cream
(21:50):
cones.
And so we have to teach peopleit's only by the blood of Christ
shed on the cross and that whenthey accept that, that it means
they're willing to go and diefor him, they're all in, they're
giving their life to him,they're committing to him 100%.
(22:12):
And that's where I think thedifference is.
I think we have a lot of peopletoday who are committed to
Christ 10%, 20%, whatever.
I'll come to church, I'll givea little something once in a
while.
You know I'll do this if I haveto.
Those to me are screamingstatements that they don't
(22:37):
really understand what thatcommitment means.
And so that is our greatestchallenge not only to help
people come to Christ, but tohelp them understand what that
means.
Not only to help people come toChrist but to help them
understand what that means.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, thank you, pat Steve, for talking with us today
, guys, if you are listeningtoday, I thank y'all so much for
being a part of this.
I pray that, as we said earlier, you can have confidence and
not be ashamed at the coming ofChrist.
So thank you for being herewith us for the Main of Christ.
So thank you for being herewith us for the main thing.
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