Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Amen for us to recall
in today's divisive and dark
culture.
From foundational truths andscripture to the hot topics of
today's culture, allow thispodcast to inspire and motivate
you on your faith journey.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back to the
Main Thing Podcast.
We're glad you guys have joinedus for this particular episode.
If you listened to the last one, chet talked a lot about his
calling with Pastor Steve and wegot to hear Pastor Steve's
testimony.
So if you didn't get a chanceto hear that one, I would
encourage you to go back andlisten to that first before you
listen to this one.
(00:54):
But today, pastor Steve, I wantto touch on not just your
testimony, since you've alreadyshared that with us, but a
biblical testimony of Jeremiah.
So I want to start today just byreading in Jeremiah, in chapter
(01:18):
one.
This was what Jeremiah says.
He says, but I protested oh no,lord, god, look, I don't know
how to speak, since I'm only ayouth.
Then the Lord said to me Do notsay I'm only a youth, for you
will go to everyone I send youto and speak whatever I tell you
.
Do not be afraid of anyone, forI will be with you to deliver
you.
This is the Lord's declaration.
Then the Lord reached out Hishand, he touched my mouth and he
(01:51):
told me I have now filled yourmouth with my words.
So I want to talk today aboutGod's sovereignty, you know
first of all let's say how wouldyou define God's sovereignty?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'll give you an easy
theological question to kick
your day off with yeah, nothingto it, right?
Well, when we say God issovereign, he's King of kings,
Lord of lords, he dictateseverything To me.
That's what sovereignty means.
It's going to happen in Hiswill, His way and His
determination.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, Okay, you know,
in your testimony in the last
episode you mentioned Ephesians2, 8, 9, and 10.
You know, and thinking aboutEphesians 2, 10, you know, we
are God's workmanship, createdin Christ Jesus in advance for
good works which he prepared forus to do.
How do you think that plays outin our life?
Is there a calling God has foryou long before you're ever even
(02:45):
born, before you're conceived?
Does God know what he plans forus?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, I have a
position.
I believe, and our Reformedbrothers believe it, as long as
it lines up with their theology.
Where it doesn't line up withtheir theology they reject it.
But I believe God can doanything he wants to do, anytime
he wants to do it, in any wayhe wants to do it.
(03:11):
So if God chooses to determinebefore you're even in your
mother's womb that he's going touse you, I certainly believe he
can do that.
But I don't think you can takewhat he did with Jeremiah and
say this is the way it is withevery human being.
I think that's a stretch.
(03:32):
I believe that in my own calling, when I look back at my life, I
can see where there were sometimes in my life where God had
his hand on me and I was not yeteven a Christian and I believe
that's probably somewhat truefor my life and it goes back to
(03:52):
this in my testimony.
My father, who was not even aChristian, as I mentioned
earlier.
He dabbled in church and theyhad an altar call one Sunday.
It was an old congregationalholiness church Never been in
one of those you hadn't livedand, as my mother told the story
(04:14):
, there was a dedication serviceand he took me down as an
infant and laid me on the altarand gave me to the Lord, and of
course I knew nothing about that, but obviously there was some
intent in his life that his kidwould honor God.
I'm not sure what all my fatherunderstood about it, but that
(04:38):
was his intent and so I thinkGod had his hand on me from the
beginning, and so I think Godhad his hand on me from the
beginning.
Having said that, this is wherewe differ some from our Reformed
brothers.
I don't think the Lord made meembrace ministry.
I think he gave me the leewayto choose if I would honor his
(05:01):
calling on my life, if I wouldbe obedient or not.
And I'll be the first to tellyou, there's a couple times in
my life I tried to do somethingelse.
I wanted to do something elseand the Lord just wouldn't let
me do that.
I was miserable.
And so, yeah, I think there'stimes he absolutely marks an
(05:24):
individual and says this is whatI have for you.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
You know, when I was
growing up in the youth group I
grew up in back in Florida Iremember one of the things our
youth minister talked a lotabout was what God has called
you to do in your life and,whether right or wrong, or
whether he intended it or not, Iknow I always got the
impression that there is onespecific thing God wants you to
do.
Man, I hope you don't mess it upand I remember the maybe not
(05:51):
the fear, but the worry thatcame with that.
You know what if I make thewrong decision?
Yeah, but do we have a?
Before we start talking aboutspecific callings, do we have a
general calling?
As a Christian, like we have nodoubt this is what God calls a
believer to do.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, see, we have
certain words that I'm afraid we
have honed down to mean certainthings Ministry, missionary,
evangelism we think of thereligious professionals doing
those kind of things.
The calling for the averageChristian is written in the Word
(06:28):
of God.
You don't have to pray aboutGod's will for your life, you
can read about it.
It's there.
So we need Christian doctorsand lawyers and truck drivers
and nurses and store managersand whatever, because all of us
interact with a differentpopulation of people and we're
(06:50):
to be missionaries orevangelists as we go.
And so we have relegated theministry to the religious
professionals, which is ahorrible conclusion, you know.
(07:13):
So I think every Christian hasa calling on their life to live
a holy existence before the LordJesus Christ, in the community
where they live.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Absolutely.
Do you think it's possible, asyou live that general calling?
You know, god wants me to studyHis Word.
God wants me to pray for myself, pray for others.
God wants me to you know, shareHis love with others.
Do you think that then can leadinto a specific calling?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Sure, we have a young
lady that came out of our
church and I love to watch thejourneys because I've been on a
journey myself.
You know we've got at least twoon our—one on our team and one
formerly on our team that wewere able to watch that journey.
(07:56):
And it is in that, beingobedient, where you are—I hate
to say it this way I'm just aChristian, I'm not a minister,
I'm not a leader, I'm not a—butI'm on a Christian.
I'm not a minister, I'm not aleader, but I'm on my journey,
I'm in the Word, I'm praying,I'm trusting Him, I'm living for
Him, and it leads to deeperthings as you do that.
(08:20):
So I think a lot of people thatend up in full-time ministry
oftentimes are people that havebeen obedient and trusted God
and the result of that is he ledthem deeper, to a place in time
that they believe he was takingthem on a different path as a
result of that, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
that reminds me of
something you've said over the
years that anytime somebody whowas in our church and have ended
up joining our team, they werealways doing ministry.
They just weren't doing it fora paycheck, they just weren't
doing it for a paycheck?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yeah, that's.
I have to be honest.
I learned this from anotherpastor and once I learned it I
began to pay attention.
He said always look around,Look around.
A church should beself-perpetuating, ideally.
So you look around.
(09:13):
Do we have anybody in thecongregation that's already
doing this?
That gets it, you know.
So, as you know, we always tryto look around and you know,
sometimes you have folks whothink they're the ones, but
we're not convinced of that, andthat always makes it
(09:33):
interesting.
But yeah, we've had several nowserve on our team who have come
through the ranks, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, you know not to
get off on a rabbit trail, but
that's something that's changedover the years in ministry.
I think there was a time achurch would never consider
somebody who was in the churchto all of a sudden jump up to
ministry.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, I was saved in
the 70s and I remember the
church model of the 70s, lookingback on it.
You had to have your trainingand your degrees.
It didn't matter what theposition was before they'd even
talk to you.
You know churches have lessenedthose requirements in current
(10:17):
day church climate but you stillwant to know a minister solid
if you're going to trust them tolead your church.
But back then it was importantto check the boxes.
In fact I've heard many pastorsolder than me joke that
(10:37):
seminary was a union cart.
You know you just go so you cancheck the box, so they'll talk
to you, because otherwise youwon't even get an interview.
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
And I find it so
interesting, when we do know
somebody that's come up throughthe church, it changes that
interview process.
Because we've done both overthe years.
Yes, we've interviewed peoplewe had no idea, you know, we'd
never met before, and thenpeople we've seen 20, 30 years I
remember I think we'd seen, youknow, like Chet on this last
episode, we've seen Chet so muchas a member we pretty much knew
(11:10):
who he was.
Right, we didn't have to have abig interview process.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, and look, we've
had success stories with that
and we've had success storieswith that and we've had a few
failures with that.
And I take full responsibilityfor that, because sometimes you
think you know somebody andthey're not who you think you
know, and then they just don'tfit and it becomes an issue.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, you know, to go
back to Jeremiah, and thank
y'all for sticking with usthrough that rabbit trail.
To go back to Jeremiah, youknow his excuse, or his first
reason why he couldn't do it isbecause he was a youth and he
didn't know how to speak.
You know, yeah, how do we getpast these fears?
Or maybe I think a lot ofpeople, when they begin to feel
(11:55):
a call to ministry or feel acall to serve in a certain way
or wherever they are, they mightfeel you know, I don't think
I'm good enough for that.
You know, how do we get pastthose excuses or those fears,
whether they're founded or not.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
This is human nature
and it's legitimate.
I dealt with that much of myministry legitimate.
I dealt with that much of myministry and, to be honest with
you, just in recent years I'vegotten past it myself.
When I was a younger pastor I'dget these invites to come do
camp week or things like this,and it would freeze me with fear
(12:33):
.
You know, I'm not tall enough,I'm not handsome enough.
Do I know enough?
Will they like what I say ornot?
And then somewhere along the way, if you're fortunate and you're
mature, you realize none ofthat matters.
That's the old devil getting inyour head.
Because if we really believewhat we say, we believe the
(12:56):
preacher is but a mouthpiece,okay, then whether we're young
or old doesn't matter, our bodybuild doesn't matter, our
education level doesn't matter.
If we really believe what wepreach, that you were made
somebody because Christ makesyou somebody.
(13:17):
He stands in the gap as themiddleman for you, making you
perfect before the Father, andyou understand that you're not
changing anybody's life, you'renot saving anybody, you're not
changing anybody's world, butthe Holy Spirit of God does that
through faithful teaching andpreaching, and that it's all Him
(13:42):
.
Then you can get past thatstuff.
But yeah, it's easy to let thedevil get in your head and think
, yeah, I don't have enougheducation, or I'm too young, or
I'm oh, you know whatever.
It paralyzed me for a lot ofyears.
It sure did.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So you know, when we
come to that point where we are
willing to embrace a calling,we're willing to step out and
say, okay, I'm going to do this.
How does God equip us, Like,kind of, what avenues does God
use to get us ready for thosekind of things?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Oh, I think there's
many.
You know, there's an old sayingwho God calls, he equips.
Well, what does that mean, youknow?
Does that mean he equips me fora certain church?
Maybe so, but I think theconcept of being equipped is
what makes you a better minister.
(14:37):
If you're talking about callingwhatever role of ministry, that
would be that God has slicedout for you.
If you're going to be in theministry, god's going to equip
you to be able to teach the Word.
He's going to be able to equipyou to love difficult people and
(14:59):
to deal with difficult people.
Being in the ministry is acontact sport almost.
You deal with a lot of thingsand I think the Lord equips you
by changing your spirit and yourunderstanding of your role,
what it is you do.
I've often said sitting on thepew side of church, people don't
(15:25):
have a clue.
You know.
They think, oh, it must be agreat life.
He's got work one day a week,have lunch with people all week.
You know it's a great life andit's just because they don't
know.
And then they come into theministry thinking they know what
it is and realizing oh wait,you know.
(15:47):
I mean, that was a learningcurve for you and Kelly when
y'all came.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I will never forget.
I'd been here about a month andthe hospital calls on my
hospital day on a Wednesday andsaid there was a man who would
probably die that afternoon andhe was calling for a Baptist
minister.
And I thought this poor guy, heneeds a real pastor, he don't
need me.
So yeah, I know what you'retalking about.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, but that's just
some of the devil's business,
where he tries to get in ourhead and tell us we can't.
But when we settle that we knowwe can't.
That it's all through the powerof the Holy Spirit and what God
does through us, not what we do.
It helps put it in perspective.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You know here right
now, man God's blessed us
numerically, but we are in aposition where we need more and
more people who are willing tocome along and help disciple
others and help them grow intheir faith.
And I know we have so many whoI would call mature Christians,
who are just scared to death ofleading a group, scared to death
(16:56):
of teaching the Bible tosomebody.
What do you say to them?
Speaker 3 (17:01):
They're no different
than an individual that's been
called to be a pastor.
You know, god doesn't need yourability, just your availability
, because he is the ability.
You know, and I try to helpthem understand that.
I'm not sure I've done a goodjob.
But first of all they've got tounderstand that all of us have
(17:24):
that calling to live out theWord of God, and so many of them
have a lot to offer.
But they're paralyzed by thatfear.
You know, whatever their fear is, it's crippling them, and so I
would challenge them to trustthe Lord and venture on, because
(17:44):
you may just be amazed once yousubmit and you're obedient, how
well God blesses it.
Some of them are probablybetter equipped in teaching
skills than you and me, butthey'll never know it because
the fear has them.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, you know,
I think that fear is sometimes
they might think there's no waythis could be successful.
You know, chet and I weretalking before we started
recording.
We were talking about Jeremiahand how sometimes it feels like
maybe God was saying to Jeremiahhey, man, this is not going to
go well, it's going to be bad,but go ahead and do it anyway.
(18:25):
Yeah, you know, but are theretimes and I'm not talking about
leading a group at our church atall but are there times God
calls us into something that isnot going to work?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Possibly.
Yes, I mean, when I think aboutthe Old Testament in Israel, I
mean you know, sometimes God'susing you for a season and I
(18:59):
think God ignites and startschurches and I think he closes
some of them down.
And sometimes God may use youin a closing season.
Some pastors that have beenpretty successful at helping
churches that were about toclose merge with churches that
were more healthy and so theirrole.
(19:19):
They didn't become pastor whenit merged.
The other church had a pastor,had a healthy church, but they
helped them close and move intoa better environment.
So I think certainly sometimesGod and I say this very
carefully he may call you as hislast effort at a church and if
(19:45):
you can't work with this guy,you can't work with anybody, and
I'm going to write Ichabod onthe door and I'm through with
you.
So yeah, I think God doessometimes do that.
We like to think of God asalways just blessing us and
giving us what we want, but ifit's His will, it could
certainly be the other also.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You know, I think
back and this is what I want to
close with today as far as God'scalling.
I think back to the last, the25 years you've been here and so
many things that ended up beingof God were very difficult,
especially in the beginning.
How do you get through thosedifficulties without saying this
is hard, god must not be in it.
(20:27):
You know, because I think a lotof times we start something man
, it's hard and we say, oh, ifGod was in it it would have been
easy.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
How do we go through
that?
I think you have to know whatthe Word says.
You have to know that what itis you're trying to accomplish
is based on God's Word.
So let's say we're trying toget people to share their faith
and we can't get anybody to signup for a class, you don't quit
(20:56):
trying because nobody signs up,because you know God says we
need to share our faith.
We know that's a biblical truthwe have to live on.
And so I think the key isunderstanding why you're doing
what you're doing.
You know, do you just want tobe a cool church that does
something, that's a certainthing, or is this a biblical
(21:19):
foundational principle?
And if it's a biblicalfoundational principle, I think
you forge forward regardless ofwhat the situation is.
And that's what I've tried todo.
I've lived on the personalmotto when I make decisions and
the things we do, number one, isit biblical and number two, is
(21:42):
it the best thing for the churchfamily?
I've tried to never make adecision because it's what Steve
wanted to do.
Never make a decision becauseit's what Steve wanted to do.
And nowadays, in our climate, ifa pastor's not careful you can
get caught up in that trap.
You know the guy over at XYZChurch.
You know they're havingBudweiser party on Wednesday
(22:05):
nights to attract a bigger crowd, so I think we'll try that.
So your faith and yourdirection has to be based in the
Word and not in the mores ofthe day.
You know what's going on andwhat's the latest flavor of the
month and all those kind ofthings.
But solid biblical principle,and then you can move through
(22:28):
anything.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
All right.
So what you're saying is nobudweiser parties anytime soon
no budweiser parties.
No, all right I appreciate that.
That gives us direction for thefuture.
Guys, thank you so much forjoining us for the main thing
podcast today.
Hope to see you next time.
God bless you, guys.