May 29, 2025 • 26 mins
Community lies at the heart of Christian faith, providing essential support, encouragement, and accountability needed for spiritual growth and discipleship.
• The church was designed from inception to be a community dedicated to supporting and encouraging one another
• Jesus established the standard for love when He commanded us to love others as He loved us
• People who engage in church community are much more likely to remain committed to their faith journey
• Small groups or covenant groups become your spiritual family
• Coming to Christ puts us on a growth track where we move from being ministered to becoming ministers
• Unhealthy church environments develop when people expect to be served without serving others
Covenant Church Houma
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Thank you for reminder for us to recall in
today's divisive and darkculture, From foundational
truths and scripture to the hottopics of today's culture.
Allow this podcast to inspireand motivate you on your faith
journey.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right, well, welcome back to the Main Thing
Podcast.
So glad you are listening withus today.
On the last episode, chet andPastor Steve talked about our
mission statement here atCovenant love God, love people
and lead others to do the same,and so I know last week they
talked a lot about what it meantto love God, but today we're
going to talk a lot about whatit means to love people and to
(00:56):
be in a community and why thatis so important in our Christian
lives.
So, steve, welcome, thank youso much for talking with us
today.
If you would just so much fortalking with us today, just if
you would just kind of start offwith us.
What, what does community looklike?
Why?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
why is that something that's so important to us here
at covenant?
Well, from its inception, thechurch was created to be a
community, um, and a communityin the in the new Testament that
was totally dedicated to oneanother, supporting one another,
encouraging one another,helping one another in difficult
times and we like to believe.
(01:36):
We're a New Testament church,so we want to teach our people,
we want them to understand thatyou need the community, the
church.
God created it for you, and sowithout it, you're in real
danger of slipping away, comingineffective in your walk.
(01:58):
The church provides so muchthat's vital, I think, to the
everyday life of a believer, andit's because God created it to
be that, and so that's why weencourage our people to be in
community.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Let's start off today .
I'm going to read John 13, 34,and 35, a verse I think most of
us would be familiar with, butit says it's a new command I
give you that you love oneanother just as I have loved you
, Love one another.
By this, all people will knowthat you're my disciples if you
have love for one another.
And obviously that was Jesusspeaking, In fact, the night of
(02:37):
the Last Supper.
So my question is how, as achurch, do we love people?
Well, how do we need to lovepeople, I guess.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Well, we have to understand the standard.
See, what we do as human beingsis we want to create our own
standards.
But what Jesus is doing rightthere, I think he's establishing
the fact that he's the standard.
And we look at the life ofChrist.
He had people he disagreed with.
(03:10):
He had people who hated him, hehad people who crucified him,
but he still loved them and, boy, that's a kind of love that's
hard for the average person tocomprehend, for the average
person to comprehend, but that'sthe goal, that's the standard
that he sets for us, and sopeople are always the most
(03:31):
important thing above rules,above policies.
You know, as a society, we loveto make rules, we love to make
policies, we love to say yes orno to whatever situation.
But I believe what Jesus isteaching us there is that he
(03:51):
created human beings.
He didn't create rules, and sothe human being is his greatest
creation and his most importantcreation, his most important
creation.
And so we come together as thebody of Christ, in community,
(04:12):
not only to support one another,encourage one another, help one
another, but we're also tocelebrate who he is as a
community when we come together.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So if I could ask, what do you think are specific
things?
A church that's healthy?
What are some specific thingsthey do to love others?
Oh, my goodness, yes.
I mean we could probably go onand on with that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, you can go on and on with it, but in its
simplest form it is a naturalsupport system.
You know, I have seen this inmy ministry over the years so
many times.
You have an individual thatjoins a church and they slip in
on the second song on Sundaymorning and they leave during
(04:56):
the invitation and they have acar wreck and one of us goes to
the hospital, have a car wreckand one of us goes to the
hospital and there may be one ortwo family members there and
we're there and we're happy tobe there.
Another person that actuallybecomes a part of the life of
the church.
(05:16):
They get in Bible study groups,covenant groups, they come to
the fellowships, they getinvolved in ministry in one form
or another according to theirspiritual gifts.
They have a car wreck, one of usgets to the hospital.
There's 20 people in thewaiting room and it's because
they have invested in thecommunity and now the community
(05:41):
is there to love on them.
That's just one way.
For example, people goingthrough difficult times, you
know, whether it's a healthissue, a divorce issue, a loss
of a job, the church is here toencourage and shore up when that
(06:03):
happens to people.
And so there's literally dozensand dozens and dozens of ways.
A lot of times, just one maturebeliever sitting with a less
mature believer, encouragingthem through a difficult patch.
So yeah, there are many waysthat that happens.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So, when we love others as a church or as
individuals, how does thatreflect the way we love God?
Because you know, last weeky'all talked about this is how
we love God.
So how does the way we loveothers reflect that?
Yeah, well, the.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Apostle John was clear we're only able to love
because God first loved us.
He is our example, he showed ushow to do it.
And I think, secondly this isso important Billy Graham was
asked one time if he could onlypreach one sermon, what would he
preach and where would hepreach it?
And he said I'd preach asalvation message in the church,
(07:04):
because he was fully convincedthat the church was full of
people who were not regenerated,were not saved born again.
And so, in able to be able tolove, you've got to first be
regenerated.
A lot of people, I think, inthe Christian world, have not
(07:25):
been regenerated.
They're doing religion andthey're trying to emulate Christ
, but the power of the HolySpirit's not in them.
They can't do it, and you canclearly see the difference in
people's lives.
Okay, what did Jesus tell us?
He said that people will knowyou belong to me by your love,
(07:48):
your ability to love one another.
And so when we love one another, the way we're designed to love
one another, it's a screamingtestament to anyone around us.
Well, that's what's differentabout them.
You know, to use a commonphrase I've heard for the last
(08:11):
few decades someone's goingthrough something and someone
will say, well, that's not me,or that's not about me.
In other words, that's not me,or that's not about me.
In other words, that's not myproblem.
Well, in the Christiancommunity, that's not the way we
view things.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
We're invested in each other, we're part of the
same family, and so, yeah, yeah,you know, if I go back to
August of 2021, aftermath ofHurricane Ida, yes, you know, I
think one of the beautifulpictures that came out of that
was not just us but the sheeramount of churches that were
(08:47):
doing so much for our communityafter that.
You know, I mean I knowobviously all the things we did
here.
You know the food distribution,the supplies, the hot meals.
But you know, living Word wasdoing that Cross Church was
tarping houses all over theplace.
There were just so manychurches that we could point
people to to show that it wasnot about us because, as you had
(09:11):
mentioned at the time, so manyof our church members that were
up here had houses that werewrecked, that were waiting on
help too, but they were uploving others.
And so I remember, I rememberyou said a guy called and said
man, what's the church doing?
What's the church doing?
Well, people know church issupposed to be doing something.
So yeah, and those, is there adifference?
(09:33):
And I say all that to say isthere a difference between
loving those in our church andloving those outside the church?
Like, what's the differencethere?
Why do we do both?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah well, you love those inside the church because
they're your family, yourspiritual family.
When you came to Christ andconfessed Christ as your Savior,
you entered into an exclusiveclub, if you will, a family of
Christ.
And so, just like you wouldlove your earthly family, you
(10:05):
love your spiritual family.
We love those outside thechurch, those who've not
confessed Christ, because,number one, it should naturally
be in us to do so by the powerof the Holy Spirit, but, number
two, we consciously do it sothat they will see the love of
(10:28):
Christ hopefully coming throughus, and that that will open up a
dialogue in their own mind thatmaybe there's something to this
, a dialogue in their own mindthat maybe?
there's something to this andthat, as a result of our loving
on them, they too will reach apoint.
They'll confess Christ andbecome a part of the family of
God.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So if we could pivot just a little bit, I want to
read another couple ofscriptures and then move into
talking about a little bitdifferent, of loving people.
But Acts 2.42, describing theearly church, it says and they
devoted themselves to theapostles' teaching and the
fellowship, to the breaking ofbread and prayers.
And then Hebrews 3.13, it saysbut exhort or encourage one
another every day, as long asit's called today that none of
(11:13):
you may be hardened by thedeceitfulness of sin.
Kind of keeping those twoverses in mind about what the
early church was like and whatwas expected or what is expected
of us as Christians.
Where does this idea ofcommunity and community groups
come in to this whole idea ofloving one another and loving
people?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, in light of that scripture, your group, your
covenant group in our case itbecomes your family, your
support system.
You know we come in here onSunday as 1,000-plus people in
here worshiping, although it canbe a very sweet personal time
(11:53):
and it can be intimate at times,but as a general rule that's
not.
You need that closer fellowshipwith fellow believers and they
in effect become your church.
You know there's statisticsBarna's done it says it doesn't
matter the size of the churchyou attend.
(12:14):
If you attend a church with 100people coming, you'll know 62
people by name.
If you attend a church with10,000, you'll know 62 people by
name.
And so the small group is vital.
It's the lifeline.
We've seen it here over theyears.
A person comes into our familyand they make an effort to get
(12:40):
involved and become a part ofthe lifeblood of the church.
They're going to stick, they'llbe here.
But you get someone who comesand they just slip in on Sunday,
sit in the back and slip out.
Odds are within a year they'llbe gone because they never
became a part of the fabric ofthe family.
And that becomes your frontline of encouragement and
(13:03):
support in your Christian walk.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You know, I think you saying that reminds me of one
of my favorite stories from acovenant group that we've had
over the years.
There was one I had, my wifeand I had, where we had four
couples, so there were eight ofus and we met once a week at our
home, had a meal.
But over time, you know, whenyou're in somebody's house, when
you're eating together, youtend to open up a little more.
(13:29):
And finally, one night one ofthe couples was dealing with an
issue that was a hard issue andthey had no idea how to go about
it.
And so you could tell when thewife was ready to say something.
But you could tell it was hard,right, she was kind of hesitant
and finally it came out Well,what they didn't realize within
(13:50):
our families.
All four of the couples haddealt with that particular issue
at one time or another.
So all of a sudden this couple,who thought we were completely
alone in this, found out theyweren't.
And so to me that's one of thebest pictures, I think, of that
idea of community and covenantgroups.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, I get a lot of grief for what I'm about to say,
but I believe it with all myheart.
A lot of people could save themoney they're paying counselors
if they just get involved intheir church family, because
Scripture teaches us that we'reto be counseled to one another.
And so in my own life and thepeople I counsel with, so many
(14:32):
of them are dealing with thesekind of I like to call them
island issues.
They feel like they're outthere by themselves and you're
not intended to have thatexperience.
In the Christian church.
There are people here for youwho love you, who want to
support you and help you, but ifyou don't become a part of the
(14:53):
fabric of the family, you'llnever know they're there.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Absolutely so.
Why then, you know, before Iask the question, you know we
have different phrases anddifferent things.
We talk about groups, right, wecall them Sunday school, we
call them Bible study, we callthem small groups.
We use the phrase doing lifetogether, you know.
But why is that so essentialfor our growth?
Why can't we just read thebible on our own every day and
(15:21):
and grow as a, as a believer?
Why are those so important?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
you know, we we live in the age in the church of
marketing, so everybody's got tohave a cool name for everything
.
I don't care what you call it,yeah, okay.
And when you confess Christ,you become a part of that family
and you need to dig in andbecome involved in that family.
(15:46):
For this reason, when you cometo Christ, it's never intended
that you should be the one beingministered to for the rest of
your life.
You're now on a growth track sothat you can mature, you can
build strength in Scripture.
You can build strength inScripture.
You can build strength in yourfaith walk so that at some point
(16:08):
you can begin to minister tosomeone else.
Faith propagates faith, if youwill.
That's how the Christian church,that's God's model.
That's why it's still hereafter 20 plus centuries.
And so I think the hardestthing for us to teach people is
(16:32):
that when you confess Christ,you're a newborn infant and
you're now on a growth track andyou need that group to begin
your growth track.
You need to begin to bestretched, and if you just read
the Bible on your own, look, Ibelieve in the power of
Scripture.
God will reveal himself to you,and you can certainly grow that
(16:54):
way.
But, boy, you can grow so muchquicker and faster, and maybe
even better, with those who'vealready walked that path, those
who are more spiritually maturethan you are and have some
things to offer that can helpyou in that journey.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So what do you think a healthy group looks like?
I know there's times you mightlook at a Sunday school class
where Bob's saying man, that'snot a healthy group.
What does a healthy one lookslike?
You know, I know there's timesyou might look at a Sunday
school class where a Bible studysays man, that's not a healthy
group.
What?
Does a healthy one.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Look like yeah healthy group interacts with one
another.
We've got a Bible study classin our church and they are a
healthy group.
They study together on Sundaymornings at this particular
group.
They get together in fellowship.
(17:49):
They do ministry as a groupfrom time to time.
And I know all this becausethey've got me on their feed on
their phone, so every time oneof them is talking to the other
one I get a copy and some daysthey go on all day long.
(18:11):
I just have to mute it so I canget something done.
But that's a healthy group.
They're involved in eachother's lives.
They're growing spiritually,intellectually and scripture.
They do ministry on a routinebasis and a lot of times they're
doing ministry nobody sees.
They'll go help somebody move.
(18:32):
They'll carry somebody to thedoctor.
They sometimes visit ourshut-ins.
They're doing some really goodthings and they keep up with
each other.
I'll get on this feed sometimesHow'd your doctor's visit go
today?
I mean, so it's not just majorthings.
They keep up with each other,with the routine things that's
(18:55):
going on in their lives.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah.
So that brings up anotherquestion, because you know that
Hebrews verse we said earlier,as long as it's today encourage
one another.
Yes, okay, that also, I think,by negative association with
that.
There's times we don'tencourage one another, there's
times we get unhealthy.
What does unhealthy groups looklike?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, unhealthy is when what we would call today
spectator church.
They come for the worship theyleave.
They're never involved in thechurch family in any way, you
know.
Yet they expect to grow, theyexpect to worship, they expect
(19:40):
the church to be there for them.
I've even done this a few timesto people when I know they're
very self-centered.
They'll say you know what?
I was sick for two weeks andnot one soul called me.
I'll say I'm sorry, we want tokeep up with everybody.
(20:00):
I apologize, we didn't call youso, just out of curiosity, when
you were well, who did you callthat was sick?
And I don't do that with theintent to be mean, I do that
with the intent to say you knowyou've got a part in this too,
and so all you want is to beministered to.
(20:22):
But God didn't call you just tobe ministered to.
You need to minister, and sowhat happens is you get a
culture of people that justexpect the church to do for them
, yet they're not doing anythingfor the church, the kingdom
themselves, and that becomes avery unhealthy environment.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It's hard to live in such a for lack of a better term
a selfish way, with neverserving anybody else.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Exactly God did not create us to be selfish but, as
I said in the last podcast, weprobably live in my time on
planet Earth in the most selfishperiod we've ever had.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Boy, that could be a whole other three-hour podcast
right there.
Yes, it could.
Yeah, well, one of the thingsyou know, I think one of the
complaints you hear about thechurch is man, they're just
fighting all the time.
What's the relationship betweenthis idea of encouraging people
, this idea of being a communitygroup or a C group, like you
said, whatever we call it in ahealthy group and then ending
(21:34):
that kind of part of church life, the fighting, which is
generally about things thatdon't really matter.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, francis Schaeffer had a great quote
where he said that doctrinalmatters are very seldom the
source of fights in churches andthat the real problem was the
way those issues were handled,as opposed to what the issues
were in and of themselves.
(22:00):
I've seen this my whole lifesince becoming a Christian, and
what we try to do here is I tryto do preemptive preaching, I
try to teach our people ahead oftime here's what's acceptable,
here's what's not in the familyof God.
So I think our people know theycan question something, they
(22:24):
can have an opinion aboutsomething, but we're not going
to fight.
We're not going to.
You want to fight, go somewhereelse, cause that's not honoring
to the Lord.
We're not doing that here.
One of the worst fights I eversaw was in college and my
roommate's dad was pastoring ina local church and I went with
him on a Wednesday night, had noidea it was a business meeting
(22:46):
and there was some that wantedhis dad to resign and I
literally saw with my own twoeyes fistfights in that church
that night.
And I was 19 years old and I washorrified because I'd been
saved and raised in a wonderful,wonderful, solid church and I
(23:10):
just couldn't believe what I wasseeing in that moment, and so,
unfortunately, we sometimes getpeople in the family that are
imposters, sometimes get peoplein the family that are imposters
.
They've not been regenerated,they don't know the Lord and
they think they have a right.
Furthermore, in the Americanchurch, because of the way our
(23:32):
government is designed andbecause they require us, as
nonprofits, to constitute andhave bylaws, you get a lot of
people who tend to think thatthey have the same rights that
they have secular rights to, andthe church is different.
You don't have those samerights.
(23:54):
The church is operated by theLord Jesus Christ.
So your rights are there, butthey're very limited.
You have a right to vote onsomething simply because the
state of Louisiana says you needto vote on something, but
(24:14):
Scripture says that God has putpastors there to operate the
church, to lead the people, tolove the people, to equip the
people, and so so many churchesare handicapped by their
understanding of how church issupposed to operate.
It's not biblical, and wewonder why so many churches are
(24:38):
dying and closing their doors.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, as we kind of finish up today, I want to ask
the question what would be yourvision, goal, dream for us as a
church regarding community,regarding groups, regarding
growth?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
in that way, we do a fair job of getting outside the
walls of the church.
I had my covenant group lastnight and we were talking about
the gifts and someone saidwhat's the difference in gifts
and talents?
And of course I explained thatthere are certain gifts God gave
(25:21):
the church for certain purposes.
But a talent isn't of itself.
A gift also that God will usein your life to minister to
others and to build the kingdom.
And I reminded them when wethink about gifts and talents,
we tend to think about whatsomebody does at church, but
(25:44):
your gift, your talent, may beone that is used outside the
walls of the church.
So if, in a perfect world, wewere doing what I believe really
honored the Lord, we would beoutside the walls of the church
(26:06):
even way more than we are.
Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Well, I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much as always.
Thank you all for listeningtoday or watching wherever you
find the podcast.
God bless you guys.
We'll see you next time.
Thank you for reminder for us to recall in
today's divisive and darkculture, From foundational
truths and scripture to the hottopics of today's culture.
Allow this podcast to inspireand motivate you on your faith
journey.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
All right, well, welcome back to the Main Thing
Podcast.
So glad you are listening withus today.
On the last episode, chet andPastor Steve talked about our
mission statement here atCovenant love God, love people
and lead others to do the same,and so I know last week they
talked a lot about what it meantto love God, but today we're
going to talk a lot about whatit means to love people and to
(00:56):
be in a community and why thatis so important in our Christian
lives.
So, steve, welcome, thank youso much for talking with us
today.
If you would just so much fortalking with us today, just if
you would just kind of start offwith us.
What, what does community looklike?
Why?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
why is that something that's so important to us here
at covenant?
Well, from its inception, thechurch was created to be a
community, um, and a communityin the in the new Testament that
was totally dedicated to oneanother, supporting one another,
encouraging one another,helping one another in difficult
times and we like to believe.
(01:36):
We're a New Testament church,so we want to teach our people,
we want them to understand thatyou need the community, the
church.
God created it for you, and sowithout it, you're in real
danger of slipping away, comingineffective in your walk.
(01:58):
The church provides so muchthat's vital, I think, to the
everyday life of a believer, andit's because God created it to
be that, and so that's why weencourage our people to be in
community.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Let's start off today .
I'm going to read John 13, 34,and 35, a verse I think most of
us would be familiar with, butit says it's a new command I
give you that you love oneanother just as I have loved you
, Love one another.
By this, all people will knowthat you're my disciples if you
have love for one another.
And obviously that was Jesusspeaking, In fact, the night of
(02:37):
the Last Supper.
So my question is how, as achurch, do we love people?
Well, how do we need to lovepeople, I guess.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Well, we have to understand the standard.
See, what we do as human beingsis we want to create our own
standards.
But what Jesus is doing rightthere, I think he's establishing
the fact that he's the standard.
And we look at the life ofChrist.
He had people he disagreed with.
(03:10):
He had people who hated him, hehad people who crucified him,
but he still loved them and, boy, that's a kind of love that's
hard for the average person tocomprehend, for the average
person to comprehend, but that'sthe goal, that's the standard
that he sets for us, and sopeople are always the most
(03:31):
important thing above rules,above policies.
You know, as a society, we loveto make rules, we love to make
policies, we love to say yes orno to whatever situation.
But I believe what Jesus isteaching us there is that he
(03:51):
created human beings.
He didn't create rules, and sothe human being is his greatest
creation and his most importantcreation, his most important
creation.
And so we come together as thebody of Christ, in community,
(04:12):
not only to support one another,encourage one another, help one
another, but we're also tocelebrate who he is as a
community when we come together.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So if I could ask, what do you think are specific
things?
A church that's healthy?
What are some specific thingsthey do to love others?
Oh, my goodness, yes.
I mean we could probably go onand on with that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, you can go on and on with it, but in its
simplest form it is a naturalsupport system.
You know, I have seen this inmy ministry over the years so
many times.
You have an individual thatjoins a church and they slip in
on the second song on Sundaymorning and they leave during
(04:56):
the invitation and they have acar wreck and one of us goes to
the hospital, have a car wreckand one of us goes to the
hospital and there may be one ortwo family members there and
we're there and we're happy tobe there.
Another person that actuallybecomes a part of the life of
the church.
(05:16):
They get in Bible study groups,covenant groups, they come to
the fellowships, they getinvolved in ministry in one form
or another according to theirspiritual gifts.
They have a car wreck, one of usgets to the hospital.
There's 20 people in thewaiting room and it's because
they have invested in thecommunity and now the community
(05:41):
is there to love on them.
That's just one way.
For example, people goingthrough difficult times, you
know, whether it's a healthissue, a divorce issue, a loss
of a job, the church is here toencourage and shore up when that
(06:03):
happens to people.
And so there's literally dozensand dozens and dozens of ways.
A lot of times, just one maturebeliever sitting with a less
mature believer, encouragingthem through a difficult patch.
So yeah, there are many waysthat that happens.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So, when we love others as a church or as
individuals, how does thatreflect the way we love God?
Because you know, last weeky'all talked about this is how
we love God.
So how does the way we loveothers reflect that?
Yeah, well, the.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Apostle John was clear we're only able to love
because God first loved us.
He is our example, he showed ushow to do it.
And I think, secondly this isso important Billy Graham was
asked one time if he could onlypreach one sermon, what would he
preach and where would hepreach it?
And he said I'd preach asalvation message in the church,
(07:04):
because he was fully convincedthat the church was full of
people who were not regenerated,were not saved born again.
And so, in able to be able tolove, you've got to first be
regenerated.
A lot of people, I think, inthe Christian world, have not
(07:25):
been regenerated.
They're doing religion andthey're trying to emulate Christ
, but the power of the HolySpirit's not in them.
They can't do it, and you canclearly see the difference in
people's lives.
Okay, what did Jesus tell us?
He said that people will knowyou belong to me by your love,
(07:48):
your ability to love one another.
And so when we love one another, the way we're designed to love
one another, it's a screamingtestament to anyone around us.
Well, that's what's differentabout them.
You know, to use a commonphrase I've heard for the last
(08:11):
few decades someone's goingthrough something and someone
will say, well, that's not me,or that's not about me.
In other words, that's not me,or that's not about me.
In other words, that's not myproblem.
Well, in the Christiancommunity, that's not the way we
view things.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
We're invested in each other, we're part of the
same family, and so, yeah, yeah,you know, if I go back to
August of 2021, aftermath ofHurricane Ida, yes, you know, I
think one of the beautifulpictures that came out of that
was not just us but the sheeramount of churches that were
(08:47):
doing so much for our communityafter that.
You know, I mean I knowobviously all the things we did
here.
You know the food distribution,the supplies, the hot meals.
But you know, living Word wasdoing that Cross Church was
tarping houses all over theplace.
There were just so manychurches that we could point
people to to show that it wasnot about us because, as you had
(09:11):
mentioned at the time, so manyof our church members that were
up here had houses that werewrecked, that were waiting on
help too, but they were uploving others.
And so I remember, I rememberyou said a guy called and said
man, what's the church doing?
What's the church doing?
Well, people know church issupposed to be doing something.
So yeah, and those, is there adifference?
(09:33):
And I say all that to say isthere a difference between
loving those in our church andloving those outside the church?
Like, what's the differencethere?
Why do we do both?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah well, you love those inside the church because
they're your family, yourspiritual family.
When you came to Christ andconfessed Christ as your Savior,
you entered into an exclusiveclub, if you will, a family of
Christ.
And so, just like you wouldlove your earthly family, you
(10:05):
love your spiritual family.
We love those outside thechurch, those who've not
confessed Christ, because,number one, it should naturally
be in us to do so by the powerof the Holy Spirit, but, number
two, we consciously do it sothat they will see the love of
(10:28):
Christ hopefully coming throughus, and that that will open up a
dialogue in their own mind thatmaybe there's something to this
, a dialogue in their own mindthat maybe?
there's something to this andthat, as a result of our loving
on them, they too will reach apoint.
They'll confess Christ andbecome a part of the family of
God.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So if we could pivot just a little bit, I want to
read another couple ofscriptures and then move into
talking about a little bitdifferent, of loving people.
But Acts 2.42, describing theearly church, it says and they
devoted themselves to theapostles' teaching and the
fellowship, to the breaking ofbread and prayers.
And then Hebrews 3.13, it saysbut exhort or encourage one
another every day, as long asit's called today that none of
(11:13):
you may be hardened by thedeceitfulness of sin.
Kind of keeping those twoverses in mind about what the
early church was like and whatwas expected or what is expected
of us as Christians.
Where does this idea ofcommunity and community groups
come in to this whole idea ofloving one another and loving
people?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, in light of that scripture, your group, your
covenant group in our case itbecomes your family, your
support system.
You know we come in here onSunday as 1,000-plus people in
here worshiping, although it canbe a very sweet personal time
(11:53):
and it can be intimate at times,but as a general rule that's
not.
You need that closer fellowshipwith fellow believers and they
in effect become your church.
You know there's statisticsBarna's done it says it doesn't
matter the size of the churchyou attend.
(12:14):
If you attend a church with 100people coming, you'll know 62
people by name.
If you attend a church with10,000, you'll know 62 people by
name.
And so the small group is vital.
It's the lifeline.
We've seen it here over theyears.
A person comes into our familyand they make an effort to get
(12:40):
involved and become a part ofthe lifeblood of the church.
They're going to stick, they'llbe here.
But you get someone who comesand they just slip in on Sunday,
sit in the back and slip out.
Odds are within a year they'llbe gone because they never
became a part of the fabric ofthe family.
And that becomes your frontline of encouragement and
(13:03):
support in your Christian walk.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You know, I think you saying that reminds me of one
of my favorite stories from acovenant group that we've had
over the years.
There was one I had, my wifeand I had, where we had four
couples, so there were eight ofus and we met once a week at our
home, had a meal.
But over time, you know, whenyou're in somebody's house, when
you're eating together, youtend to open up a little more.
(13:29):
And finally, one night one ofthe couples was dealing with an
issue that was a hard issue andthey had no idea how to go about
it.
And so you could tell when thewife was ready to say something.
But you could tell it was hard,right, she was kind of hesitant
and finally it came out Well,what they didn't realize within
(13:50):
our families.
All four of the couples haddealt with that particular issue
at one time or another.
So all of a sudden this couple,who thought we were completely
alone in this, found out theyweren't.
And so to me that's one of thebest pictures, I think, of that
idea of community and covenantgroups.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, I get a lot of grief for what I'm about to say,
but I believe it with all myheart.
A lot of people could save themoney they're paying counselors
if they just get involved intheir church family, because
Scripture teaches us that we'reto be counseled to one another.
And so in my own life and thepeople I counsel with, so many
(14:32):
of them are dealing with thesekind of I like to call them
island issues.
They feel like they're outthere by themselves and you're
not intended to have thatexperience.
In the Christian church.
There are people here for youwho love you, who want to
support you and help you, but ifyou don't become a part of the
(14:53):
fabric of the family, you'llnever know they're there.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Absolutely so.
Why then, you know, before Iask the question, you know we
have different phrases anddifferent things.
We talk about groups, right, wecall them Sunday school, we
call them Bible study, we callthem small groups.
We use the phrase doing lifetogether, you know.
But why is that so essentialfor our growth?
Why can't we just read thebible on our own every day and
(15:21):
and grow as a, as a believer?
Why are those so important?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
you know, we we live in the age in the church of
marketing, so everybody's got tohave a cool name for everything
.
I don't care what you call it,yeah, okay.
And when you confess Christ,you become a part of that family
and you need to dig in andbecome involved in that family.
(15:46):
For this reason, when you cometo Christ, it's never intended
that you should be the one beingministered to for the rest of
your life.
You're now on a growth track sothat you can mature, you can
build strength in Scripture.
You can build strength inScripture.
You can build strength in yourfaith walk so that at some point
(16:08):
you can begin to minister tosomeone else.
Faith propagates faith, if youwill.
That's how the Christian church,that's God's model.
That's why it's still hereafter 20 plus centuries.
And so I think the hardestthing for us to teach people is
(16:32):
that when you confess Christ,you're a newborn infant and
you're now on a growth track andyou need that group to begin
your growth track.
You need to begin to bestretched, and if you just read
the Bible on your own, look, Ibelieve in the power of
Scripture.
God will reveal himself to you,and you can certainly grow that
(16:54):
way.
But, boy, you can grow so muchquicker and faster, and maybe
even better, with those who'vealready walked that path, those
who are more spiritually maturethan you are and have some
things to offer that can helpyou in that journey.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So what do you think a healthy group looks like?
I know there's times you mightlook at a Sunday school class
where Bob's saying man, that'snot a healthy group.
What does a healthy one lookslike?
You know, I know there's timesyou might look at a Sunday
school class where a Bible studysays man, that's not a healthy
group.
What?
Does a healthy one.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Look like yeah healthy group interacts with one
another.
We've got a Bible study classin our church and they are a
healthy group.
They study together on Sundaymornings at this particular
group.
They get together in fellowship.
(17:49):
They do ministry as a groupfrom time to time.
And I know all this becausethey've got me on their feed on
their phone, so every time oneof them is talking to the other
one I get a copy and some daysthey go on all day long.
(18:11):
I just have to mute it so I canget something done.
But that's a healthy group.
They're involved in eachother's lives.
They're growing spiritually,intellectually and scripture.
They do ministry on a routinebasis and a lot of times they're
doing ministry nobody sees.
They'll go help somebody move.
(18:32):
They'll carry somebody to thedoctor.
They sometimes visit ourshut-ins.
They're doing some really goodthings and they keep up with
each other.
I'll get on this feed sometimesHow'd your doctor's visit go
today?
I mean, so it's not just majorthings.
They keep up with each other,with the routine things that's
(18:55):
going on in their lives.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah.
So that brings up anotherquestion, because you know that
Hebrews verse we said earlier,as long as it's today encourage
one another.
Yes, okay, that also, I think,by negative association with
that.
There's times we don'tencourage one another, there's
times we get unhealthy.
What does unhealthy groups looklike?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, unhealthy is when what we would call today
spectator church.
They come for the worship theyleave.
They're never involved in thechurch family in any way, you
know.
Yet they expect to grow, theyexpect to worship, they expect
(19:40):
the church to be there for them.
I've even done this a few timesto people when I know they're
very self-centered.
They'll say you know what?
I was sick for two weeks andnot one soul called me.
I'll say I'm sorry, we want tokeep up with everybody.
(20:00):
I apologize, we didn't call youso, just out of curiosity, when
you were well, who did you callthat was sick?
And I don't do that with theintent to be mean, I do that
with the intent to say you knowyou've got a part in this too,
and so all you want is to beministered to.
(20:22):
But God didn't call you just tobe ministered to.
You need to minister, and sowhat happens is you get a
culture of people that justexpect the church to do for them
, yet they're not doing anythingfor the church, the kingdom
themselves, and that becomes avery unhealthy environment.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It's hard to live in such a for lack of a better term
a selfish way, with neverserving anybody else.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Exactly God did not create us to be selfish but, as
I said in the last podcast, weprobably live in my time on
planet Earth in the most selfishperiod we've ever had.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Boy, that could be a whole other three-hour podcast
right there.
Yes, it could.
Yeah, well, one of the thingsyou know, I think one of the
complaints you hear about thechurch is man, they're just
fighting all the time.
What's the relationship betweenthis idea of encouraging people
, this idea of being a communitygroup or a C group, like you
said, whatever we call it in ahealthy group and then ending
(21:34):
that kind of part of church life, the fighting, which is
generally about things thatdon't really matter.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, francis Schaeffer had a great quote
where he said that doctrinalmatters are very seldom the
source of fights in churches andthat the real problem was the
way those issues were handled,as opposed to what the issues
were in and of themselves.
(22:00):
I've seen this my whole lifesince becoming a Christian, and
what we try to do here is I tryto do preemptive preaching, I
try to teach our people ahead oftime here's what's acceptable,
here's what's not in the familyof God.
So I think our people know theycan question something, they
(22:24):
can have an opinion aboutsomething, but we're not going
to fight.
We're not going to.
You want to fight, go somewhereelse, cause that's not honoring
to the Lord.
We're not doing that here.
One of the worst fights I eversaw was in college and my
roommate's dad was pastoring ina local church and I went with
him on a Wednesday night, had noidea it was a business meeting
(22:46):
and there was some that wantedhis dad to resign and I
literally saw with my own twoeyes fistfights in that church
that night.
And I was 19 years old and I washorrified because I'd been
saved and raised in a wonderful,wonderful, solid church and I
(23:10):
just couldn't believe what I wasseeing in that moment, and so,
unfortunately, we sometimes getpeople in the family that are
imposters, sometimes get peoplein the family that are imposters
.
They've not been regenerated,they don't know the Lord and
they think they have a right.
Furthermore, in the Americanchurch, because of the way our
(23:32):
government is designed andbecause they require us, as
nonprofits, to constitute andhave bylaws, you get a lot of
people who tend to think thatthey have the same rights that
they have secular rights to, andthe church is different.
You don't have those samerights.
(23:54):
The church is operated by theLord Jesus Christ.
So your rights are there, butthey're very limited.
You have a right to vote onsomething simply because the
state of Louisiana says you needto vote on something, but
(24:14):
Scripture says that God has putpastors there to operate the
church, to lead the people, tolove the people, to equip the
people, and so so many churchesare handicapped by their
understanding of how church issupposed to operate.
It's not biblical, and wewonder why so many churches are
(24:38):
dying and closing their doors.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, as we kind of finish up today, I want to ask
the question what would be yourvision, goal, dream for us as a
church regarding community,regarding groups, regarding
growth?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
in that way, we do a fair job of getting outside the
walls of the church.
I had my covenant group lastnight and we were talking about
the gifts and someone saidwhat's the difference in gifts
and talents?
And of course I explained thatthere are certain gifts God gave
(25:21):
the church for certain purposes.
But a talent isn't of itself.
A gift also that God will usein your life to minister to
others and to build the kingdom.
And I reminded them when wethink about gifts and talents,
we tend to think about whatsomebody does at church, but
(25:44):
your gift, your talent, may beone that is used outside the
walls of the church.
So if, in a perfect world, wewere doing what I believe really
honored the Lord, we would beoutside the walls of the church
(26:06):
even way more than we are.
Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Well, I appreciate your time.
Thank you so much as always.
Thank you all for listeningtoday or watching wherever you
find the podcast.
God bless you guys.
We'll see you next time.
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