February 20, 2025 • 34 mins
Pastor Steve shares his transformative journey from a non-Christian upbringing to faith and ministry, filled with challenges and growth. He emphasizes the importance of authenticity in leadership and nurturing future generations in their faith.
• Personal testimony of accepting Christ at age 15
• The impact of early mentors and opportunities in ministry
• Challenges faced in various pastoral roles and churches
• The importance of authenticity and trust in leadership
• Legacy and hopes for future generations in faith
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
Thank you for us to recall, in today's divisive and
dark culture, from foundationaltruths and scripture to the hot
topics of today's culture.
Allow this podcast to inspireand motivate you on your faith
journey.
Well hello, pastor Steve.
Good morning, thank you forbeing with us again my pleasure.
I'm excited about this one.
(00:40):
You know we finished thequestions that the church asked.
We did a little series about aprevious message that you
preached back in June, a coupleof years ago, and today what I'd
like to do is just walk throughyour story, your salvation
experience, to give the churchand you've shared it
periodically through messages,but I thought it'd be awesome to
(01:00):
have one sit down, hear yourtestimony, hear how the Lord
brought you to the pastorate topreaching, and hear about the
victories, hear about some ofthe times that the Lord has
molded you in the past and madeyou into the man you are today,
and then finally just get towhere the church can hear your
heart, the legacy that God hasdone through you and through the
(01:23):
work in the ministry, and whereyou want to be and how you want
to finish, because I believe Iknow me as a pastor.
I have this idea of what I wantto do and what I want to
accomplish, but I'm curious tohear from you in your stage of
ministry, so before Steve.
I know that you were saved at ayoung age, but can you give us a
(01:45):
background as to how old youwere when you accepted Christ?
What was going on before then?
Your upbringing?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, I came from a non-Christian home.
My dad had dabbled in thechurch but had never been saved.
He even did a little laypreaching but had never been
saved.
He even did a little laypreaching but he did that, in my
humble opinion, as a lostperson.
Two uneducated parents my dadwent to the fifth grade, my
(02:15):
mother went to the seventh grade, and so it was that typical
backwards central Alabama poorfamily.
My grandmother was a Christian,a very solid Christian, but she
lived a couple hours north ofwhere we lived, so I had very
(02:35):
limited interaction with her.
And so at the age of 15, whichI'm guessing would have been
around the ninth grade a friendI'd made, a friend at school and
his name was Tommy, and Tommystarted inviting me to church
(02:57):
and so I finally go, and it wasa series of Sundays that I went,
and then one particular SundayI remember it like it was
yesterday Pastor preached onEphesians 2, 8, and 9, and I
(03:18):
expressed to them that day thatI wanted to accept Christ.
And so Tommy's dad I've talkedabout him much over the years
Ray Holly, he was a deacon inthat little country church and
he was just an appliancerepairman.
You know nothing special abouthim as the world would look at
(03:38):
him, but very, very faithful,and he led me to the Lord.
After the church service thatmorning and took the time.
Just I remember him on his kneeson the front row, with me
sitting in the front view goingthrough scripture with me,
explaining to me how to come tothe Lord.
(04:00):
And so January 5th 1975,beautiful day in the middle of
the winter, and it so radicallytransformed my life I literally
ran home.
I lived about a mile from thechurch and I ran home that day.
I was so excited it still kindof befuddles me to this day.
(04:24):
You can't get Christians totalk about what God has done for
them.
Because I couldn't wait to gotell somebody.
So I immediately went to one ofmy friends that lived next door
to me and told him what hadhappened, and of course I told
my parents.
Nobody was excited but me.
And so the next day, on Mondayafternoon, I went to Tommy
(04:48):
Letlow's house, who was anothergood friend, and it was just
such an amazing moment.
I was able to lead Tommy to theLord and I literally didn't
know one Bible verse.
I just told him dude, I justknow you need what I got.
And so my first convert, Tommyand I, were baptized together
(05:09):
the following Sunday, you know,and Tommy went on to be a church
of God preacher, and so Godtook him in a very different
direction, but yet a verysimilar direction.
So yeah, that's my story ofcoming to the Lord.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Now, if I remember correctly, just piecing bits
together of sermons through theyears, wasn't there a point in
your teenage years where youwere asked to preach because
someone saw a call on your life?
Yeah, this is an amazing thing.
You know, I believe in specificrevelation.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, this is an amazing thing.
You know, I believe in specificrevelation, which would be, for
example, Scripture and generalrevelation.
You know, you look at the starsand the sky and the moon and
the sun and of course Romanstalks about all that.
None of us have an excuse tosay there's no God.
(06:03):
Just look around.
There's evidence everywhere.
So my youth minister at thatlittle church was part-time and
his name was Leon Dunn.
Leon's retired now he livesright up the road in Mississippi
.
And back in those days you didyouth choir tours.
(06:24):
They were very popular.
So spring break came up andLeon wanted me to go on a youth
choir tour.
Well, I knew something wasgoing on, because I can't sing a
lick.
I mean not one note.
And so I said dude, I don'tsing.
And he said I'm not asking youto go sing.
I was a football player intolifting weights and he said I
(06:46):
need not asking you to go sing.
I was a football player intolifting weights and he said I
need somebody to tow theequipment and I was like well.
I can do that, you know.
Yeah, I can tow the equipment.
So that's how they got me onthe youth choir tour.
Well, we sang at five differentchurches Monday through Friday
on that trip that week, everynight.
And the first church we were in, as they gave an invitation, he
(07:09):
motioned for me to come to himand I thought, hmm.
So I walked up there, he handedme the microphone and said I
want you to give your testimony,and I was mortified.
First of all, what is atestimony?
I mean I had only been aChristian a few months.
So he said just tell peoplewhat Jesus did for you.
And to this day, it's one ofthe greatest miracles I've ever
(07:31):
experienced, I think, was Godrevealing himself to me, because
all five churches every nightsome elderly person would come
up to me and say young man,god's calling you to preach.
Wow, he had me give mytestimony every night, and so I
go home overwhelmed.
(07:52):
You know, I came from as wewould say when we talk about
status in America I came fromnothing.
I was nobody and the conceptthat God would be calling me to
this very honorable professionjust blew my mind.
So I surrendered to preach inApril of the year.
(08:14):
I was saved.
Saved in January, surrendered topreach in April, preached my
first sermon on a Wednesdaynight.
My first sermon on a Wednesdaynight, april or May of that year
.
You know, back in the old daysyou didn't worry about mentoring
people.
There wasn't much of that.
That went on.
He said God called you topreach, preach Wednesday, go do
(08:35):
it, you know.
So.
You know we got through thatand it was a slow progress from
there.
But I preached a good bitduring high school.
You get up in the Bible Belt.
There's a lot of those littlesmall churches were always
struggling with a pastor, sothere was always somewhere to
fill in that kind of thing, andso I did a good bit of preaching
(09:00):
before graduating high school.
And so, yeah, god kind of in myunderstanding at least made it
clear to me pretty early on thisis what you're to be doing.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Whenever you preach that revival on angels.
How far are we from that point?
Was that when you were in yourearly, your late teens?
Yeah, I'm in high school.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I'm like a junior in high school and you know we
don't do this kind of thing toomuch anymore, but we used to
have Youth Sunday and the youthwould do everything.
They'd take up the offering.
They teach Sunday schoolclasses.
One of them would preach, oneof them would lead music and the
normal ministerial staff wouldjust sit back.
(09:49):
And it was your day to learnhow to be leaders in the church.
And I had very little knowledgeon how to prepare a sermon, and
so I had been to my wife'sgrandmother's church for
something and picked up a Biblestudy that they had laying in
(10:10):
the foyer on angels.
So when I was told you'repreaching for the Youth Sunday,
I'm like oh no.
So I really just took thatBible study on angels, made it
fit me and went out there andpreached it.
Bible study on angels made itfit me and went out there and
preached it, and I forget theexact numbers.
There were like 17 people thatwere saved that day and 22
(10:30):
rededications.
And then, to add to my anxiety,the pastor announces at the end
of the service God's moving,we're going to do this through
Wednesday.
He looked at me and said beready tomorrow night.
So I'm like where can I findanother Bible?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
study somewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But God moved.
It was a great week.
He did great things, but it wasfurther confirmation for me
that he had called me, because,look, when you're about 17 years
old and you preach and 30 or 40people respond in an
affirmative way, you've got tobe an idiot to think it was you.
(11:12):
Right you know Somewhere Istill have that cassette tape
and it's pathetic.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, you know it's pathetic.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So it was absolutely a moving of the Holy Spirit of
God.
It wasn't because of my skillsin any way, but it further
confirmed for me.
You know.
Yeah, this is what you'resupposed to be doing.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, praise God, and I know you mentioned Ray and
Tommy and those that influencedyou to come to Christ.
Mentioned Ray and Tommy andthose that influenced you to
come to Christ.
After Christ you're saved,you're beginning to preach.
God's moving and he'sconfirming that call in your
life.
Do you recall maybe the firsthard situation or struggle that
(12:02):
you encountered in your youngfaith that didn't rock your
faith but made you maybequestion faith or question the
Lord or question His Word in anyway, and was there any kind of
crisis?
of faith that you've encounteredat a young age.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
No, and this is important for people to
understand, I'm not beingcritical of other people's
experience.
You're saved in yourpersonality.
You worship in your personality.
I'm an extrovert.
Okay, when I came to Christ Iwent all in and never considered
this might be a problem.
(12:34):
I did struggle as a teenager.
I went to a large high school.
In fact, my football coach Iplayed for just passed away.
They had his service lastSunday.
He was a godly man, which isalmost an anomaly in athletics,
(12:55):
and so I was blessed to havesome great men in my life on the
football field, some great menin my life at church on the
football field, some great menin my life at church, you know.
But my biggest struggle wasbeing a teenage boy who had come
to Christ, who had surrenderedto the ministry, and yet all my
(13:16):
buddies are still running andgunning, you know.
In fact it became a deal.
You know such a different timein the middle 70s.
All you had to do was we wouldall park at a service station on
the weekend and sit there untilwe figured out something we
wanted to get into that weshouldn't, and my faith was real
(13:41):
for me.
So I became a designated driverbefore that term was ever coined
and I drove my buddies aroundmany a night while they were
doing stupid things, took manyof them home on my shoulders,
knocked on the door and theirparents let me in.
I laid them on the couch andthey thanked me and I went on
(14:02):
home and it became a joke.
If they wanted to go somewhere,their mom and dad say Steve, go
on.
You know, and so I hope theLord used me to save several of
them from worse situationssomewhere along the way.
But that was my biggeststruggle was trying to live my
(14:24):
faith as a teenage boy in theathletic world, playing sports
and dealing with my friends,many of whom claimed to be
Christians and attended churchevery Sunday.
But that wasn't who they were,you know, and that's when it's,
I think, even harder.
I went home to preach ahomecoming oh, probably 15 years
(14:48):
ago now, and about 20 of themshowed up.
I was so honored and several ofthem came to me and said man, I
owe you an apology and youdon't owe me anything.
We're all on a journey, youknow.
But thank you Because as theygrew in the Lord you know.
So many of them are now deaconsand leaders in their churches
(15:11):
and they realized how stupidthey were in the teenage years.
So yeah, that was my struggle.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So after you came to Christ and you're growing in
your faith, you're a young man.
At this point I know youexperienced the call to be a
pastor.
You knew the Lord was callingyou to preach, but how did that
transpire into school and thenyour first pastorate?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, you're looking at a guy who had 19 first
cousins older than me thatdidn't finish high school Wow
Okay.
First cousins older than methat didn't finish high school
Wow Okay.
In my family tree meaning mymom and dad and all of my first
cousins in that group, I was thefirst one to ever finish high
(15:56):
school Wow.
And my pastor at the timehanded me it was a little bitty
booklet on Mobile College.
He spoke at one of our pregamemeals.
The coach I played under wealways had a pregame meal and we
always had a local pastor comegive a devotion and he spoke at
a pre—he wasn't even my pastorat this point.
(16:16):
He would become my pastor andhe gave me the book.
He said I hear God's called youto preach.
You need to consider thisschool.
And I began to look at MobileCollege.
Had no money to go to college,had no means to even think about
it, was accepted to the StateTrooper Academy.
My dad was a cop.
(16:37):
He was a city cop and that madehim so proud that I'd been
accepted to the State TrooperAcademy because he knew you had
to be a high school graduate toapply.
He never could even apply andso he was heartbroken when I
told him I was going to school,god called me to preach.
I'll never forget he told me.
(16:59):
He said, boy, that preaching'sfine but you can't make a living
doing that.
And um, that was ourconversation.
Uh, and the day I left forcollege I had a uh, chevy,
chevelle, v8 350 and even backthen gas much cheaper now, but
it wasn't that cheap.
(17:19):
What did it get?
Five miles to the gallon it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
It got about 10.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And he handed me a $5 bill and shook my hand and said
good luck to you.
And that was the amount ofsupport I got from family in
college and I just trusted.
The Lord showed up and theyasked me when I registered, how
are you going to pay for this?
I said I have no idea.
When I registered, how are yougoing to pay for this?
(17:43):
I said I have no idea, but I'mtrusting the Lord, we'll figure
it out.
And was blessed.
I did take out a little bit ofstudent loan because, jan, we
got married a year later and Italked her into going to school
too.
Between the two of us we onlyhad $10,000 in student debt when
we finished and we got thatpaid off, unlike many.
(18:06):
Today, we were happy to get itpaid off and give back because
we were thankful for theeducation.
You know, without those loansit might have taken us another
five years to finish.
But yeah, my journey was reallyjust one of trusting.
You know we're going to say hesaved me.
(18:29):
If he can do such a miraculousthing as save you, surely he can
help you take care of school.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Right, you know so yeah.
So you and Jan get married.
You're still a young man,you're pastoring.
So you and Jan get married.
You're still a young man,you're pastoring, you're
learning, you're you're trial byfire in churches and and the
Lord's and and many of us.
We've heard snippets of thosechurches, but if you could get
us to where we are in a snapshotand what I mean by that is, can
(18:59):
you highlight maybe two orthree of those churches that had
a significant impact on you toget you and Jan where you are
today?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, yeah, because that journey is a bumpy journey.
My first church I pastored incollege weekend church you just
went up on.
We'd go up on Friday evenings,stay the weekend, drive home on
Sunday nights and that'sprobably the reason I'm still in
the ministry today.
New Bethlehem Baptist Church inBrewton, alabama.
(19:27):
A little small church and theyloved us.
Oh man, and look, I still.
Like I said, I got some ofthose cassette tapes and you'd
preach the most pitiful sermonand they'd all come out the door
.
You know you're awesome, you'rethe best preacher.
We just love you.
You know.
And today you know they werelying but they were just trying
(19:51):
to encourage you, you know.
And so we spent right at fouryears there and I resigned going
into my senior year because Ihad to take 21 hours in the fall
and 18 in the spring, and itinvolved, second year, greek and
Hebrew, and so I'm like I'm nota brilliant person.
(20:13):
I knew this was going to be ajob, but I was ready to get
finished and a buddy of mine twoweeks later got me into an
interim at another little smallchurch and we served it the
whole year, my senior year, youknow, just going up on the
weekend Wait a minute Back up.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Was that first church , the church that you and Jan
used to sleep in the churchbecause it had air conditioning?
Yes, on the weekends.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, yeah, the little church had been remodeled.
It's a beautiful little churchbut a very small church, and we
would stay.
The little church had onedeacon, mr Riley Barnett.
Him and Miss Eva.
They were in their 70s andyou've got to think.
This is a different time.
This is 40 years ago and theydidn't believe in air
(20:59):
conditioning and that's who westayed with every weekend.
So sometimes in the summermonths you'd wake up on Sunday
morning and it'd be like you'dwet the bed.
You'd just be sopping wet andsweat you know, and Miss Eva was
afraid of the dark and way backin the 70s you had these lights
clap on, clap off.
(21:21):
And all night long you'd hear.
You know she'd be cutting thelight on and off so she could
see what was in the house.
And so every now and then, onSunday evening I admit my sin we
would lie and say we're goingto make a couple visits and we'd
go to the church and they neverlocked that little church.
And we'd lock the door andcrank the air conditioning down
(21:43):
and the pews were padded andwe'd take a nap on those pews on
Sunday afternoon.
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's awesome, and the next churches that you've
been through.
What I'd like to hear, Steve,can you pull out maybe one of
the biggest struggles you've hadin the pastorate and at a
church and how that changed yourlife and prepared you for what
(22:12):
God had next?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah Well, we left Mobile College, went to Southern
Seminary, spent two years there.
He spent two years there andpastored a church over in what
they call Floyd Knobs, indiana.
It's just across the Ohio Riverfrom Louisville and it was a
good little church.
I actually built a buildingwhile I was there for them.
(22:35):
They were meeting in a hardwarestore.
You know, young preachers needto pay attention.
I had grown up in constructionand of course that was on my
resume.
And here I thought they werecalling me because I was a great
preacher.
They were calling me because Iknew construction so I could
build their new church.
And we did and we learned a lotthere.
(22:59):
But then at the time I was atSouthern, it was very liberal
and we reached a point where wedidn't feel like we could stay,
so we went home.
I became a part-time youthminister at a church there in my
hometown for about four yearsand worked a real job, as people
(23:20):
would say.
And then we went to Talladega,alabama, right out by the
racetrack, and spent a littleover five years at a little
church called East Aboga BaptistChurch.
It's an Indian word that meanseast of the bog or east of the
river.
And again and again, veryloving, very caring.
(23:43):
We'd probably still be at thatchurch today, but as my family
continued to grow, they had,like, a lot of small churches.
I'm not disparaging them, theyhad that mentality of this is
what we pay.
So you know, preachers, come andgo, if you won't work for it,
(24:05):
we'll find one that will.
And so, with three smallchildren, I reached a place.
I felt like I was forced for myfamily's sake to make a move.
Worst decision I ever made inmy life I'm getting to your
question Went to a church inBirmingham, alabama, that said
(24:27):
all the right things, showed meall the right documents, and
it's the worst church I've everbeen associated with in my life.
We were there 18 months andcouldn't wait to get out of
there.
Wow, and I've often saideverybody needs an 18-month
church because once you've hadthat church, when you then get a
(24:51):
good one, you'll know it,because you know what it ain't.
You know the church was verydysfunctional and lied to us
about several things, budgetbeing one.
I learned an important lessonthere when they show you a
budget, a lot of these churcheshave a reality budget and a
(25:14):
challenge budget, and I didn'tknow the difference.
I'd never had a real mentor inministry, so I was flying blind.
And so I found out about amonth after being there that the
real budget and what theythought they might get was two
very different figures.
(25:34):
And so, yeah, we dealt withevery problem in that church.
You can imagine, and some youcan't.
And I could not wait to get outof there.
Yeah, people say there are alot of bad preachers, and I
agree there are some badpreachers, but I'm going to tell
you there are a lot of badchurches, too that have no clue
(25:57):
what it means to be a church ofthe Lord Jesus Christ.
It's their own personal littlefamily club and their opinions
and their belief systems arebased on what they think, not
what Scripture teaches.
And unfortunately, people talkabout these statistics with all
these churches closing.
(26:18):
I think for the health of thekingdom, some of them closing is
a good thing, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, in a rural part of Virginia I know a church
that grew significantly and inthat area you would consider it
a megachurch just because of thepopulation I think they were
running a little over 300, butit's a small town and the
pastor's been there for 45 yearsand this is what you hear
people say he's been there toolong, you know?
(26:48):
Yeah, god bless, the man's beenthere for 45 years, faithful to
one church, and it's a badthing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Well, you always have the opinion critics.
I believe this with all myheart.
I don't care what it isministry, a secular job, your
marriage, it doesn't matter.
I believe it's true.
Longevity does not guaranteesuccess, because I know some
people that have been on theirjob or in the ministry for 30
(27:16):
years but it's a mediocreperformance because you know
they just their personality isthe type they just want to coast
and if nobody pays attentionthat's all they'll do.
But to have real success yougot to have longevity.
Somebody has to plant andinvest and pour their life into
(27:37):
that place or you'll never havesustainable growth.
You may have flash-in-the-pangrowth and people five years
later are talking about you.
Remember back when they were.
You know it's my prayer wenever become a church back when
they were.
You know that we remain astrong, viable church for the
(27:58):
kingdom.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Stephen, what ways has the Lord blessed you as a
pastor through Covenant Church.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Oh goodness, and I have to qualify this Before I
got here in my 40s I was 40 theyear I came and I can't, I'll
never forget this there was anold director of missions that
loved me and I loved him, and hesaid something to me when I was
about 32, 33, that made me mad.
(28:26):
He said you'll never really bea good pastor until you're about
40 years old.
And I thought who do you thinkyou are, you know?
But once I got to be about 50,I began to realize he knew what
he was talking about.
And it's not that you'resmarter at 40.
It's that you've experiencedmore and you begin to see what's
(28:49):
really important in your roleas a pastor.
So when we came here, thischurch was very typical of
churches I had pastored.
I served on staff here for thefirst year and a half.
Pastor who was a good friend, acollege study buddy, stayed
after me to come down here.
So I finally felt, okay, maybethat's what we're supposed to do
(29:12):
.
We came and his idea of what agood church was and mine were
two very different things.
His idea of what a good churchwas and mine were two very
different things.
Our church was run by a smallgroup of people, most of whom
had come down here from NorthLouisiana.
They were good people, theyloved the Lord, but they had
(29:39):
tried to impose a NorthLouisiana mindset on a South
Louisiana congregation.
And so the first five yearswere pretty tumultuous.
I wouldn't lie to you about it.
It was tough, but I had reacheda place in maturity.
You know, as a young pastor,you get somebody who don't like
you and you think, well, maybe Ineed to leave.
And I had gotten past that.
My view was I'm not leaving mychurch because you got a problem
(30:04):
.
And so I think the Lord blessesthe stickability I really do.
And after about five years itbegan to change the attitudes,
the culture, the disposition ofthe church.
And as we grew and this was notintended to be this way, it's
(30:26):
just an observation I made as wegrew, god added to our
population those voices gotsmaller and smaller.
They didn't have the influencethey once had and that made it
possible for us to do evenbetter things.
And so the short and the quickof it is this in dedicating
(30:50):
ourselves here and saying thisis where we're supposed to be,
we're going to work throughwhatever comes along.
We're going to work throughwhatever comes along.
We're coming out the other sideand I think God blessed the
church as a result of that and Iknock on wood, I didn't do
(31:11):
anything stupid because I gotskills I can, and after a while,
the congregation naturallybegins to bless you, uh, trust
you, and that becomes yourbiggest blessing, right?
Uh, I really believe I could gopaint the sanctuary pink with
purple polka dots and get awaywith it.
But the reason I can get awaywith it is I don't paint the
(31:33):
sanctuary pink yeah, that'sright.
Purple polka dots right and, andso hopefully they know I love
them and I believe they love us.
And for the last, oh goodness,probably 10 to 15 years serving
this church has just been anabsolute joy.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So last question is what is your greatest hope for
the people that— well, really,what is your greatest hope for
the people that?
Well, really, what is yourgreatest hope for the people
that you've shepherded in thepast, the thousands and
thousands of people through theyears, and the people that you
shepherd here now?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, yeah, I'll give you the comical one and then
the real one.
I joke that my goal before Idie or retire whichever the Lord
chooses is that I'll love Jesusmore than LSU.
I think that may be anunrealistic goal.
I'm not sure Jesus is evergoing to get that high on the
(32:29):
list.
But, in all seriousness, thatwhen you walk away, that there's
a crop, a core of people thathave grown and can lead.
See if you're the only leaderin the place.
When you walk away, there's agreat void, there's a great
(32:51):
sucking sound when you go outthe door.
My heart is that the day Ileave here, under whatever
conditions, is that it nevermisses a beat and that it does
better than it's ever done.
You know, my great joy would beto see you know sometime after
I'm gone.
The church is doubled ratherthan going backwards.
(33:13):
I know a lot of old preachers.
It breaks my heart.
Well, since I've been gone,they've gone down to nothing.
You know it breaks my heart.
Well, since I've been gone,they've gone down to nothing you
know, and they tell that likethey're proud of it.
Well, that's ego.
That's ego.
It must have been about you tostart with.
You know, I think one of thethings that help any pastor is
(33:33):
to remember that you're not asimportant as they act like you
are yeah, and you're not as badas they act like you are yeah,
and you're not as bad as theyact like you are.
Just be faithful.
Be faithful.
So I hope, when I leave here,people can say I was faithful.
I hope they'll say I wasgenuine because I don't think
(33:54):
there's any value in a plasticpreacher that I was real and,
hopefully, that I built afoundation that they can move
forward on and not have torebuild it.
You know, one of the thingsthat helped me the guy that I
came here under that left.
He was here six and a halfyears.
(34:16):
He fought a lot of ugly battlesin six and a half years.
He fought a lot of ugly battlesin six and a half years, and so
when I became pastor, when heleft, there were some things I
didn't have to deal with.
He had built some foundationthat.
I could spring forward from, andthat's one of the things that
really helped us.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, amen.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Well, thank you for sharing, brother, my blessing,
and thank you for those of youwho are watching and those of
you who are listening.
We'll see you next time.
Thank you for us to recall, in today's divisive and
dark culture, from foundationaltruths and scripture to the hot
topics of today's culture.
Allow this podcast to inspireand motivate you on your faith
journey.
Well hello, pastor Steve.
Good morning, thank you forbeing with us again my pleasure.
I'm excited about this one.
(00:40):
You know we finished thequestions that the church asked.
We did a little series about aprevious message that you
preached back in June, a coupleof years ago, and today what I'd
like to do is just walk throughyour story, your salvation
experience, to give the churchand you've shared it
periodically through messages,but I thought it'd be awesome to
(01:00):
have one sit down, hear yourtestimony, hear how the Lord
brought you to the pastorate topreaching, and hear about the
victories, hear about some ofthe times that the Lord has
molded you in the past and madeyou into the man you are today,
and then finally just get towhere the church can hear your
heart, the legacy that God hasdone through you and through the
(01:23):
work in the ministry, and whereyou want to be and how you want
to finish, because I believe Iknow me as a pastor.
I have this idea of what I wantto do and what I want to
accomplish, but I'm curious tohear from you in your stage of
ministry, so before Steve.
I know that you were saved at ayoung age, but can you give us a
(01:45):
background as to how old youwere when you accepted Christ?
What was going on before then?
Your upbringing?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, I came from a non-Christian home.
My dad had dabbled in thechurch but had never been saved.
He even did a little laypreaching but had never been
saved.
He even did a little laypreaching but he did that, in my
humble opinion, as a lostperson.
Two uneducated parents my dadwent to the fifth grade, my
(02:15):
mother went to the seventh grade, and so it was that typical
backwards central Alabama poorfamily.
My grandmother was a Christian,a very solid Christian, but she
lived a couple hours north ofwhere we lived, so I had very
(02:35):
limited interaction with her.
And so at the age of 15, whichI'm guessing would have been
around the ninth grade a friendI'd made, a friend at school and
his name was Tommy, and Tommystarted inviting me to church
(02:57):
and so I finally go, and it wasa series of Sundays that I went,
and then one particular SundayI remember it like it was
yesterday Pastor preached onEphesians 2, 8, and 9, and I
(03:18):
expressed to them that day thatI wanted to accept Christ.
And so Tommy's dad I've talkedabout him much over the years
Ray Holly, he was a deacon inthat little country church and
he was just an appliancerepairman.
You know nothing special abouthim as the world would look at
(03:38):
him, but very, very faithful,and he led me to the Lord.
After the church service thatmorning and took the time.
Just I remember him on his kneeson the front row, with me
sitting in the front view goingthrough scripture with me,
explaining to me how to come tothe Lord.
(04:00):
And so January 5th 1975,beautiful day in the middle of
the winter, and it so radicallytransformed my life I literally
ran home.
I lived about a mile from thechurch and I ran home that day.
I was so excited it still kindof befuddles me to this day.
(04:24):
You can't get Christians totalk about what God has done for
them.
Because I couldn't wait to gotell somebody.
So I immediately went to one ofmy friends that lived next door
to me and told him what hadhappened, and of course I told
my parents.
Nobody was excited but me.
And so the next day, on Mondayafternoon, I went to Tommy
(04:48):
Letlow's house, who was anothergood friend, and it was just
such an amazing moment.
I was able to lead Tommy to theLord and I literally didn't
know one Bible verse.
I just told him dude, I justknow you need what I got.
And so my first convert, Tommyand I, were baptized together
(05:09):
the following Sunday, you know,and Tommy went on to be a church
of God preacher, and so Godtook him in a very different
direction, but yet a verysimilar direction.
So yeah, that's my story ofcoming to the Lord.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Now, if I remember correctly, just piecing bits
together of sermons through theyears, wasn't there a point in
your teenage years where youwere asked to preach because
someone saw a call on your life?
Yeah, this is an amazing thing.
You know, I believe in specificrevelation.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, this is an amazing thing.
You know, I believe in specificrevelation, which would be, for
example, Scripture and generalrevelation.
You know, you look at the starsand the sky and the moon and
the sun and of course Romanstalks about all that.
None of us have an excuse tosay there's no God.
(06:03):
Just look around.
There's evidence everywhere.
So my youth minister at thatlittle church was part-time and
his name was Leon Dunn.
Leon's retired now he livesright up the road in Mississippi
.
And back in those days you didyouth choir tours.
(06:24):
They were very popular.
So spring break came up andLeon wanted me to go on a youth
choir tour.
Well, I knew something wasgoing on, because I can't sing a
lick.
I mean not one note.
And so I said dude, I don'tsing.
And he said I'm not asking youto go sing.
I was a football player intolifting weights and he said I
(06:46):
need not asking you to go sing.
I was a football player intolifting weights and he said I
need somebody to tow theequipment and I was like well.
I can do that, you know.
Yeah, I can tow the equipment.
So that's how they got me onthe youth choir tour.
Well, we sang at five differentchurches Monday through Friday
on that trip that week, everynight.
And the first church we were in, as they gave an invitation, he
(07:09):
motioned for me to come to himand I thought, hmm.
So I walked up there, he handedme the microphone and said I
want you to give your testimony,and I was mortified.
First of all, what is atestimony?
I mean I had only been aChristian a few months.
So he said just tell peoplewhat Jesus did for you.
And to this day, it's one ofthe greatest miracles I've ever
(07:31):
experienced, I think, was Godrevealing himself to me, because
all five churches every nightsome elderly person would come
up to me and say young man,god's calling you to preach.
Wow, he had me give mytestimony every night, and so I
go home overwhelmed.
(07:52):
You know, I came from as wewould say when we talk about
status in America I came fromnothing.
I was nobody and the conceptthat God would be calling me to
this very honorable professionjust blew my mind.
So I surrendered to preach inApril of the year.
(08:14):
I was saved.
Saved in January, surrendered topreach in April, preached my
first sermon on a Wednesdaynight.
My first sermon on a Wednesdaynight, april or May of that year
.
You know, back in the old daysyou didn't worry about mentoring
people.
There wasn't much of that.
That went on.
He said God called you topreach, preach Wednesday, go do
(08:35):
it, you know.
So.
You know we got through thatand it was a slow progress from
there.
But I preached a good bitduring high school.
You get up in the Bible Belt.
There's a lot of those littlesmall churches were always
struggling with a pastor, sothere was always somewhere to
fill in that kind of thing, andso I did a good bit of preaching
(09:00):
before graduating high school.
And so, yeah, god kind of in myunderstanding at least made it
clear to me pretty early on thisis what you're to be doing.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Whenever you preach that revival on angels.
How far are we from that point?
Was that when you were in yourearly, your late teens?
Yeah, I'm in high school.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I'm like a junior in high school and you know we
don't do this kind of thing toomuch anymore, but we used to
have Youth Sunday and the youthwould do everything.
They'd take up the offering.
They teach Sunday schoolclasses.
One of them would preach, oneof them would lead music and the
normal ministerial staff wouldjust sit back.
(09:49):
And it was your day to learnhow to be leaders in the church.
And I had very little knowledgeon how to prepare a sermon, and
so I had been to my wife'sgrandmother's church for
something and picked up a Biblestudy that they had laying in
(10:10):
the foyer on angels.
So when I was told you'repreaching for the Youth Sunday,
I'm like oh no.
So I really just took thatBible study on angels, made it
fit me and went out there andpreached it.
Bible study on angels made itfit me and went out there and
preached it, and I forget theexact numbers.
There were like 17 people thatwere saved that day and 22
(10:30):
rededications.
And then, to add to my anxiety,the pastor announces at the end
of the service God's moving,we're going to do this through
Wednesday.
He looked at me and said beready tomorrow night.
So I'm like where can I findanother Bible?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
study somewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But God moved.
It was a great week.
He did great things, but it wasfurther confirmation for me
that he had called me, because,look, when you're about 17 years
old and you preach and 30 or 40people respond in an
affirmative way, you've got tobe an idiot to think it was you.
(11:12):
Right you know Somewhere Istill have that cassette tape
and it's pathetic.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, you know it's pathetic.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So it was absolutely a moving of the Holy Spirit of
God.
It wasn't because of my skillsin any way, but it further
confirmed for me.
You know.
Yeah, this is what you'resupposed to be doing.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, praise God, and I know you mentioned Ray and
Tommy and those that influencedyou to come to Christ.
Mentioned Ray and Tommy andthose that influenced you to
come to Christ.
After Christ you're saved,you're beginning to preach.
God's moving and he'sconfirming that call in your
life.
Do you recall maybe the firsthard situation or struggle that
(12:02):
you encountered in your youngfaith that didn't rock your
faith but made you maybequestion faith or question the
Lord or question His Word in anyway, and was there any kind of
crisis?
of faith that you've encounteredat a young age.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
No, and this is important for people to
understand, I'm not beingcritical of other people's
experience.
You're saved in yourpersonality.
You worship in your personality.
I'm an extrovert.
Okay, when I came to Christ Iwent all in and never considered
this might be a problem.
(12:34):
I did struggle as a teenager.
I went to a large high school.
In fact, my football coach Iplayed for just passed away.
They had his service lastSunday.
He was a godly man, which isalmost an anomaly in athletics,
(12:55):
and so I was blessed to havesome great men in my life on the
football field, some great menin my life at church on the
football field, some great menin my life at church, you know.
But my biggest struggle wasbeing a teenage boy who had come
to Christ, who had surrenderedto the ministry, and yet all my
(13:16):
buddies are still running andgunning, you know.
In fact it became a deal.
You know such a different timein the middle 70s.
All you had to do was we wouldall park at a service station on
the weekend and sit there untilwe figured out something we
wanted to get into that weshouldn't, and my faith was real
(13:41):
for me.
So I became a designated driverbefore that term was ever coined
and I drove my buddies aroundmany a night while they were
doing stupid things, took manyof them home on my shoulders,
knocked on the door and theirparents let me in.
I laid them on the couch andthey thanked me and I went on
(14:02):
home and it became a joke.
If they wanted to go somewhere,their mom and dad say Steve, go
on.
You know, and so I hope theLord used me to save several of
them from worse situationssomewhere along the way.
But that was my biggeststruggle was trying to live my
(14:24):
faith as a teenage boy in theathletic world, playing sports
and dealing with my friends,many of whom claimed to be
Christians and attended churchevery Sunday.
But that wasn't who they were,you know, and that's when it's,
I think, even harder.
I went home to preach ahomecoming oh, probably 15 years
(14:48):
ago now, and about 20 of themshowed up.
I was so honored and several ofthem came to me and said man, I
owe you an apology and youdon't owe me anything.
We're all on a journey, youknow.
But thank you Because as theygrew in the Lord you know.
So many of them are now deaconsand leaders in their churches
(15:11):
and they realized how stupidthey were in the teenage years.
So yeah, that was my struggle.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So after you came to Christ and you're growing in
your faith, you're a young man.
At this point I know youexperienced the call to be a
pastor.
You knew the Lord was callingyou to preach, but how did that
transpire into school and thenyour first pastorate?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, you're looking at a guy who had 19 first
cousins older than me thatdidn't finish high school Wow
Okay.
First cousins older than methat didn't finish high school
Wow Okay.
In my family tree meaning mymom and dad and all of my first
cousins in that group, I was thefirst one to ever finish high
(15:56):
school Wow.
And my pastor at the timehanded me it was a little bitty
booklet on Mobile College.
He spoke at one of our pregamemeals.
The coach I played under wealways had a pregame meal and we
always had a local pastor comegive a devotion and he spoke at
a pre—he wasn't even my pastorat this point.
(16:16):
He would become my pastor andhe gave me the book.
He said I hear God's called youto preach.
You need to consider thisschool.
And I began to look at MobileCollege.
Had no money to go to college,had no means to even think about
it, was accepted to the StateTrooper Academy.
My dad was a cop.
(16:37):
He was a city cop and that madehim so proud that I'd been
accepted to the State TrooperAcademy because he knew you had
to be a high school graduate toapply.
He never could even apply andso he was heartbroken when I
told him I was going to school,god called me to preach.
I'll never forget he told me.
(16:59):
He said, boy, that preaching'sfine but you can't make a living
doing that.
And um, that was ourconversation.
Uh, and the day I left forcollege I had a uh, chevy,
chevelle, v8 350 and even backthen gas much cheaper now, but
it wasn't that cheap.
(17:19):
What did it get?
Five miles to the gallon it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
It got about 10.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And he handed me a $5 bill and shook my hand and said
good luck to you.
And that was the amount ofsupport I got from family in
college and I just trusted.
The Lord showed up and theyasked me when I registered, how
are you going to pay for this?
I said I have no idea.
When I registered, how are yougoing to pay for this?
(17:43):
I said I have no idea, but I'mtrusting the Lord, we'll figure
it out.
And was blessed.
I did take out a little bit ofstudent loan because, jan, we
got married a year later and Italked her into going to school
too.
Between the two of us we onlyhad $10,000 in student debt when
we finished and we got thatpaid off, unlike many.
(18:06):
Today, we were happy to get itpaid off and give back because
we were thankful for theeducation.
You know, without those loansit might have taken us another
five years to finish.
But yeah, my journey was reallyjust one of trusting.
You know we're going to say hesaved me.
(18:29):
If he can do such a miraculousthing as save you, surely he can
help you take care of school.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Right, you know so yeah.
So you and Jan get married.
You're still a young man,you're pastoring.
So you and Jan get married.
You're still a young man,you're pastoring, you're
learning, you're you're trial byfire in churches and and the
Lord's and and many of us.
We've heard snippets of thosechurches, but if you could get
us to where we are in a snapshotand what I mean by that is, can
(18:59):
you highlight maybe two orthree of those churches that had
a significant impact on you toget you and Jan where you are
today?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, yeah, because that journey is a bumpy journey.
My first church I pastored incollege weekend church you just
went up on.
We'd go up on Friday evenings,stay the weekend, drive home on
Sunday nights and that'sprobably the reason I'm still in
the ministry today.
New Bethlehem Baptist Church inBrewton, alabama.
(19:27):
A little small church and theyloved us.
Oh man, and look, I still.
Like I said, I got some ofthose cassette tapes and you'd
preach the most pitiful sermonand they'd all come out the door
.
You know you're awesome, you'rethe best preacher.
We just love you.
You know.
And today you know they werelying but they were just trying
(19:51):
to encourage you, you know.
And so we spent right at fouryears there and I resigned going
into my senior year because Ihad to take 21 hours in the fall
and 18 in the spring, and itinvolved, second year, greek and
Hebrew, and so I'm like I'm nota brilliant person.
(20:13):
I knew this was going to be ajob, but I was ready to get
finished and a buddy of mine twoweeks later got me into an
interim at another little smallchurch and we served it the
whole year, my senior year, youknow, just going up on the
weekend Wait a minute Back up.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Was that first church , the church that you and Jan
used to sleep in the churchbecause it had air conditioning?
Yes, on the weekends.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, yeah, the little church had been remodeled.
It's a beautiful little churchbut a very small church, and we
would stay.
The little church had onedeacon, mr Riley Barnett.
Him and Miss Eva.
They were in their 70s andyou've got to think.
This is a different time.
This is 40 years ago and theydidn't believe in air
(20:59):
conditioning and that's who westayed with every weekend.
So sometimes in the summermonths you'd wake up on Sunday
morning and it'd be like you'dwet the bed.
You'd just be sopping wet andsweat you know, and Miss Eva was
afraid of the dark and way backin the 70s you had these lights
clap on, clap off.
(21:21):
And all night long you'd hear.
You know she'd be cutting thelight on and off so she could
see what was in the house.
And so every now and then, onSunday evening I admit my sin we
would lie and say we're goingto make a couple visits and we'd
go to the church and they neverlocked that little church.
And we'd lock the door andcrank the air conditioning down
(21:43):
and the pews were padded andwe'd take a nap on those pews on
Sunday afternoon.
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's awesome, and the next churches that you've
been through.
What I'd like to hear, Steve,can you pull out maybe one of
the biggest struggles you've hadin the pastorate and at a
church and how that changed yourlife and prepared you for what
(22:12):
God had next?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah Well, we left Mobile College, went to Southern
Seminary, spent two years there.
He spent two years there andpastored a church over in what
they call Floyd Knobs, indiana.
It's just across the Ohio Riverfrom Louisville and it was a
good little church.
I actually built a buildingwhile I was there for them.
(22:35):
They were meeting in a hardwarestore.
You know, young preachers needto pay attention.
I had grown up in constructionand of course that was on my
resume.
And here I thought they werecalling me because I was a great
preacher.
They were calling me because Iknew construction so I could
build their new church.
And we did and we learned a lotthere.
(22:59):
But then at the time I was atSouthern, it was very liberal
and we reached a point where wedidn't feel like we could stay,
so we went home.
I became a part-time youthminister at a church there in my
hometown for about four yearsand worked a real job, as people
(23:20):
would say.
And then we went to Talladega,alabama, right out by the
racetrack, and spent a littleover five years at a little
church called East Aboga BaptistChurch.
It's an Indian word that meanseast of the bog or east of the
river.
And again and again, veryloving, very caring.
(23:43):
We'd probably still be at thatchurch today, but as my family
continued to grow, they had,like, a lot of small churches.
I'm not disparaging them, theyhad that mentality of this is
what we pay.
So you know, preachers, come andgo, if you won't work for it,
(24:05):
we'll find one that will.
And so, with three smallchildren, I reached a place.
I felt like I was forced for myfamily's sake to make a move.
Worst decision I ever made inmy life I'm getting to your
question Went to a church inBirmingham, alabama, that said
(24:27):
all the right things, showed meall the right documents, and
it's the worst church I've everbeen associated with in my life.
We were there 18 months andcouldn't wait to get out of
there.
Wow, and I've often saideverybody needs an 18-month
church because once you've hadthat church, when you then get a
(24:51):
good one, you'll know it,because you know what it ain't.
You know the church was verydysfunctional and lied to us
about several things, budgetbeing one.
I learned an important lessonthere when they show you a
budget, a lot of these churcheshave a reality budget and a
(25:14):
challenge budget, and I didn'tknow the difference.
I'd never had a real mentor inministry, so I was flying blind.
And so I found out about amonth after being there that the
real budget and what theythought they might get was two
very different figures.
(25:34):
And so, yeah, we dealt withevery problem in that church.
You can imagine, and some youcan't.
And I could not wait to get outof there.
Yeah, people say there are alot of bad preachers, and I
agree there are some badpreachers, but I'm going to tell
you there are a lot of badchurches, too that have no clue
(25:57):
what it means to be a church ofthe Lord Jesus Christ.
It's their own personal littlefamily club and their opinions
and their belief systems arebased on what they think, not
what Scripture teaches.
And unfortunately, people talkabout these statistics with all
these churches closing.
(26:18):
I think for the health of thekingdom, some of them closing is
a good thing, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, in a rural part of Virginia I know a church
that grew significantly and inthat area you would consider it
a megachurch just because of thepopulation I think they were
running a little over 300, butit's a small town and the
pastor's been there for 45 yearsand this is what you hear
people say he's been there toolong, you know?
(26:48):
Yeah, god bless, the man's beenthere for 45 years, faithful to
one church, and it's a badthing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Well, you always have the opinion critics.
I believe this with all myheart.
I don't care what it isministry, a secular job, your
marriage, it doesn't matter.
I believe it's true.
Longevity does not guaranteesuccess, because I know some
people that have been on theirjob or in the ministry for 30
(27:16):
years but it's a mediocreperformance because you know
they just their personality isthe type they just want to coast
and if nobody pays attentionthat's all they'll do.
But to have real success yougot to have longevity.
Somebody has to plant andinvest and pour their life into
(27:37):
that place or you'll never havesustainable growth.
You may have flash-in-the-pangrowth and people five years
later are talking about you.
Remember back when they were.
You know it's my prayer wenever become a church back when
they were.
You know that we remain astrong, viable church for the
(27:58):
kingdom.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Stephen, what ways has the Lord blessed you as a
pastor through Covenant Church.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Oh goodness, and I have to qualify this Before I
got here in my 40s I was 40 theyear I came and I can't, I'll
never forget this there was anold director of missions that
loved me and I loved him, and hesaid something to me when I was
about 32, 33, that made me mad.
(28:26):
He said you'll never really bea good pastor until you're about
40 years old.
And I thought who do you thinkyou are, you know?
But once I got to be about 50,I began to realize he knew what
he was talking about.
And it's not that you'resmarter at 40.
It's that you've experiencedmore and you begin to see what's
(28:49):
really important in your roleas a pastor.
So when we came here, thischurch was very typical of
churches I had pastored.
I served on staff here for thefirst year and a half.
Pastor who was a good friend, acollege study buddy, stayed
after me to come down here.
So I finally felt, okay, maybethat's what we're supposed to do
(29:12):
.
We came and his idea of what agood church was and mine were
two very different things.
His idea of what a good churchwas and mine were two very
different things.
Our church was run by a smallgroup of people, most of whom
had come down here from NorthLouisiana.
They were good people, theyloved the Lord, but they had
(29:39):
tried to impose a NorthLouisiana mindset on a South
Louisiana congregation.
And so the first five yearswere pretty tumultuous.
I wouldn't lie to you about it.
It was tough, but I had reacheda place in maturity.
You know, as a young pastor,you get somebody who don't like
you and you think, well, maybe Ineed to leave.
And I had gotten past that.
My view was I'm not leaving mychurch because you got a problem
(30:04):
.
And so I think the Lord blessesthe stickability I really do.
And after about five years itbegan to change the attitudes,
the culture, the disposition ofthe church.
And as we grew and this was notintended to be this way, it's
(30:26):
just an observation I made as wegrew, god added to our
population those voices gotsmaller and smaller.
They didn't have the influencethey once had and that made it
possible for us to do evenbetter things.
And so the short and the quickof it is this in dedicating
(30:50):
ourselves here and saying thisis where we're supposed to be,
we're going to work throughwhatever comes along.
We're going to work throughwhatever comes along.
We're coming out the other sideand I think God blessed the
church as a result of that and Iknock on wood, I didn't do
(31:11):
anything stupid because I gotskills I can, and after a while,
the congregation naturallybegins to bless you, uh, trust
you, and that becomes yourbiggest blessing, right?
Uh, I really believe I could gopaint the sanctuary pink with
purple polka dots and get awaywith it.
But the reason I can get awaywith it is I don't paint the
(31:33):
sanctuary pink yeah, that'sright.
Purple polka dots right and, andso hopefully they know I love
them and I believe they love us.
And for the last, oh goodness,probably 10 to 15 years serving
this church has just been anabsolute joy.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So last question is what is your greatest hope for
the people that— well, really,what is your greatest hope for
the people that?
Well, really, what is yourgreatest hope for the people
that you've shepherded in thepast, the thousands and
thousands of people through theyears, and the people that you
shepherd here now?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, yeah, I'll give you the comical one and then
the real one.
I joke that my goal before Idie or retire whichever the Lord
chooses is that I'll love Jesusmore than LSU.
I think that may be anunrealistic goal.
I'm not sure Jesus is evergoing to get that high on the
(32:29):
list.
But, in all seriousness, thatwhen you walk away, that there's
a crop, a core of people thathave grown and can lead.
See if you're the only leaderin the place.
When you walk away, there's agreat void, there's a great
(32:51):
sucking sound when you go outthe door.
My heart is that the day Ileave here, under whatever
conditions, is that it nevermisses a beat and that it does
better than it's ever done.
You know, my great joy would beto see you know sometime after
I'm gone.
The church is doubled ratherthan going backwards.
(33:13):
I know a lot of old preachers.
It breaks my heart.
Well, since I've been gone,they've gone down to nothing.
You know it breaks my heart.
Well, since I've been gone,they've gone down to nothing you
know, and they tell that likethey're proud of it.
Well, that's ego.
That's ego.
It must have been about you tostart with.
You know, I think one of thethings that help any pastor is
(33:33):
to remember that you're not asimportant as they act like you
are yeah, and you're not as badas they act like you are yeah,
and you're not as bad as theyact like you are.
Just be faithful.
Be faithful.
So I hope, when I leave here,people can say I was faithful.
I hope they'll say I wasgenuine because I don't think
(33:54):
there's any value in a plasticpreacher that I was real and,
hopefully, that I built afoundation that they can move
forward on and not have torebuild it.
You know, one of the thingsthat helped me the guy that I
came here under that left.
He was here six and a halfyears.
(34:16):
He fought a lot of ugly battlesin six and a half years.
He fought a lot of ugly battlesin six and a half years, and so
when I became pastor, when heleft, there were some things I
didn't have to deal with.
He had built some foundationthat.
I could spring forward from, andthat's one of the things that
really helped us.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, amen.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Well, thank you for sharing, brother, my blessing,
and thank you for those of youwho are watching and those of
you who are listening.
We'll see you next time.
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