June 12, 2024 • 33 mins
Can unequal access to technology create insurmountable barriers for low-income students, further widening the socioeconomic divide? Join hosts Brad Constant and George Grayeb on Make the Leap as we tackle this pressing issue head-on. In this episode, we explore the profound impact of the digital divide on low-income students, particularly in online and hybrid learning environments. With special guest Dr. Rhonda Baughman from Ross College Online, we dive into the challenges these students face, from the lack of reliable internet to the absence of functional devices, and how these hurdles limit their educational experiences and future prospects.
Dr. Baughman brings her valuable perspective as an online English and literature instructor, sharing her proactive approaches to create a supportive and equitable learning atmosphere. Through subtle prompts in assignments and open communication, she builds trust with her students, uncovering underlying issues that impact their academic performance. The discussion emphasizes the importance of rapid, consistent communication and a non-judgmental, collaborative environment where students can thrive despite challenging home environments.
As we look toward the future, we discuss the evolving role of technology in education and the critical need to equip students with essential digital skills. Dr. Baughman and our hosts address the importance of institutions like Ross College in bridging the digital divide through resources, training, and personalized support. The conversation concludes with reflections on the potential benefits of hybrid learning models and a preview of our next episode on education for social change. Don't miss this enlightening discussion on how we can all contribute to creating a more equitable digital learning landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to Make the Leap, a podcast focused on the
many economic hurdles facingcollege students, lower income
individuals and those strivingto move up the social ladder.
I'm Brad Constant here withGeorge Graham.
George, what is today's topic?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
All right, thank you, brad.
So today we're going to betalking about the digital divide
and hybrid learning, onlinelearning and the impact on
low-income students.
This is not a new topic, sowe're revisiting something that
we've discussed within the Rosscommunity and on this podcast as
we came out of the pandemic.
But the digital divide is aproblem that affects people from
(00:54):
all walks of life.
The two main key areas in it isaccess to high-speed internet
and access to reliable devices.
Why do we talk about it, why dowe want to address it and why do
we want to close the gap?
It's because the consequencesfor the digital divide are
massive in terms of impact onour students.
(01:15):
Unequal access to digitalresources can reinforce existing
issues that we have, whether insociety, economics, education,
disparities, creating adisadvantaged cycle that the
students will never ever be ableto come out of it.
It also restricts our students'ability to obtain information,
education, employmentopportunities, services,
(01:36):
healthcare, knowledge and anyother essential services.
This truly can limit theability of our students to have
any kind of social mobility.
And the reality is this gaponly gets worse when it
coincides with economicinequality and the gap continues
to to widen, and then you'vegot a huge difference between
(01:58):
those who have the resources andthose are in the marginalized
communities, so that that's ourtopic for today.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Brad George, I'm glad we're reviewing this topic.
Like you mentioned, it is nearand dear to our work at Ross.
I'm also looking forward tochatting with our guests.
Today we are chatting with DrRhonda Baumann, who has been
with Ross since 2018.
She is a graduate of the KentState University, honors College
, antioch University, mcggregorand Argosy University.
She is currently the onlineEnglish and literature
(02:29):
instructor for Ross CollegeOnline.
She has been a writer andeditor for over 30 years and has
been an instructor for over 20years.
In her free time, she walks herdog, a half-beagle, half-aussie
shepherd named Pumpkin.
She also writes essays andarticles for various magazines,
such as Girls and On Film.
She also writes essays andarticles for various magazines,
such as Girls and On Film.
Even more intriguing, she hasspearheaded her own zine series,
(02:51):
medium Chill, of which she iscurrently working on the ninth
issue that will be published onAmazon in the near future.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Rhonda, thank you so much for joining us today.
You're welcome.
It's good to be here.
To begin, as I started with theintro, this is not a new topic
for us.
We've visited this topic beforeon this podcast and its impact
on our student.
But to get started, I'd like totake your take on online
learning, the digital divide,what it is, what you see in it
and its impact on students.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, that's a very big question, the digital divide
.
It encompasses a lot ofdifferent things.
It takes me back to my earlydays of sitting in my first
sociology classes, thinkingabout people who have access to
things and people who don't haveaccess to things, and what
kinds of things don't they haveaccess to.
The digital divide itself isjust.
It's huge, it's vast, itaffects millions of people,
(03:45):
including a lot of my students.
In other words, you know whatkinds of things do they need to
be successful?
Very basic things, I think.
A lot of things, too, that Ioften take for granted.
So I have to remember, you know, my students.
They need things like a viablelaptop and a stable internet
(04:06):
connection.
They need time as well, awayfrom work, to learn how these
things work in order to besuccessful in a lot of the
classes I teach.
So does the digital divide havea big effect on millions of
people, including my students?
Absolutely.
Now how do we reach across thatdivide and bring everyone over?
(04:29):
I guess that's the big question.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
When we talk about it in terms of its impact.
You know, when, coming out ofthe pandemic, our students
really were forced into it.
You know, ross, for example, weonly had a very, very small
online population majority.
Example, we only had a very,very small online population
majority, a clear majority.
Almost 90% of our students werein-person learning, so they got
forced into it.
Now, some of our students findit very appealing, right?
(04:54):
Because if you're a single mom,if you're working two jobs, if
you're trying to be at home withyour kids and not having to be
gone as much, you know, onlinelearning or hybrid learning is
very appealing, but sometimes italso feels punitive because
they're not ready.
They're not prepared and theydon't have the resources.
As a teacher, how do you see,like, how do you tell when
(05:18):
somebody is prepared to be anonline student and somebody that
is not really equipped to be anonline student?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
A lot of times my more eager students.
They jump right in, they'reready, they're jumping into the
discussion boards and they'reemailing me and they're liking
my comments on the announcements.
Other times students are just,you know, very, very quiet.
They're not as eager to jump in, and so I reach out to everyone
.
I leave no student behind.
Sometimes I probably think thatmy students are like, wow, does
this instructor ever stoptalking?
(05:51):
But I would rather reach outtoo much than not enough.
Whether the student finds itappealing or not, I want them to
have the most positiveexperience they possibly can in
my class, and if that means Ireach them via email, zoom text,
(06:12):
the discussion board, the gradebox, feedback, the
announcements, whatever, I wantto make sure that they have all
of those options available tothem to wherever they feel
comfortable.
And I let them know that I knowthat the height of the pandemic
is over, but that I vividlyremember my last day teaching a
(06:34):
ground campus for Ross too.
I vividly remember it like itwas just 10 minutes ago and I
would be lying if I said Ididn't miss it a little bit, but
that I've been an onlineinstructor and a hybrid
instructor for so long that I'mcomfortable here for all of you
too.
And just like I'm speaking toyou now, this is exactly how I
would.
I would speak to a student andit's not just about in the
(06:57):
assignments for my class ortheir due dates, but I want to
know about them and their lives,and I'm here as a almost like a
sounding board in a way,someone they can bounce ideas
off of, someone that they canactually talk to without you
know, any judgment.
Sometimes I don't have anyadvice, I just listen and I need
them to know that I'm here forall of that.
(07:19):
That I understand they havemany things going on.
I know my students.
They have families to take careof and sometimes multiple jobs.
They have more than one classgoing on.
Maybe they have questions too,and they're just embarrassed to
ask.
Like just today, a studentreached out and said hey, do you
offer essay refreshers?
(07:39):
It's like an essay refresher.
Yeah, can you remind me aboutthesis statements and topic
sentences?
And I said, absolutely, I cando that.
And how do you want that?
Do you want to do you want totalk over zoom?
Do you want me to make aPowerPoint?
Do you want me to write downthe lecture for you?
All of the above and thestudent really emailed back and
(08:00):
said I want all of it.
I want everything.
I said, okay, I can do that too.
So whatever part of the digitaldivide that we have to, you
know, look at and attempt to,you know, reach across and pull
folks over.
I want them to know that I'mthere for that all day, no
matter what.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So, rhonda, I know from our previous conversation
you are passionate about makingyour class as accessible as
possible.
Can you help us paint a picturefor people that might be
outside of the classroom,outside of the whole hybrid or
online environment, on what theaccess divide is for especially
low income students, like theyare facing hurdles just to try
(08:40):
and get online at some points.
Can you do you have anyexamples?
Could you paint a betterpicture of that for us?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
So even just this term, I'm noticing that students
may have access to hey, I havemy laptop, I have a little bit
of time here between jobs.
But just because they haveaccess doesn't necessarily mean
that they're just jumping rightin and without any type of issue
(09:08):
completing those assignments.
So just this term, I'm noticingthat students are they're
experiencing a high volume of Iguess I would just call glitches
.
My laptop has suddenly shut off, my phone has been shut off.
I can't get a connection here.
Sometimes students may havetechnology.
(09:30):
They may be temporarilydisplaced out of the home, they
may be, in fact in a not safeenvironment.
So they have access to all ofthese lovely technological
things.
If those things are not workingproperly for them, they may not
know how to address, how to getthose things fixed.
Secondly, if they have otherthings that are impeding the use
(09:54):
of that technology, they mayfind it very difficult to find
their footing.
And if they miss one assignmentand they fall behind just a
little bit, they startapologizing and feeling badly.
And I tell them you reallydon't have to apologize to me,
there's absolutely no reason toapologize.
How can I help you get back ontrack?
Anything that I can possibly doto include them so they don't
(10:19):
feel left behind in any way.
Sometimes even the most minorinconvenience, it can be really
overwhelming.
You know, you have one littlething, and then another little
thing and, oh my goodness, herecomes a big thing.
Sometimes people will just,they will go quiet and they will
shut down.
I respect that.
I will not stop reaching out tothem and until the very end of
(10:41):
class I will continue to saywe've still got time, we've
still got time, there's stillsome time here.
What can we do?
I'm just looking for your besteffort.
I say and they probably gettired of me saying there's no
such thing as perfection.
But there really isn't a suchthing as perfection.
If I don't know what that'slooked like after 30 years, I
(11:01):
would never expect a student toknow what that looks like either
.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I'm curious, rhonda, so you talked about access in
terms of do they have access toa laptop, and then you talked
through the issues that they canhave, whether they have
internet, or is it safeenvironment, or are they even in
a place where they do that?
What are the things that youuse to kind of help you
formulate that the student ishaving issues above and beyond
(11:28):
the classroom environment?
They're having issues relatingto, maybe, their home life,
maybe issues relating to poverty, maybe issues relating to
technology.
You know, what are the thingsyou pick up on to help you kind
of move down the second path youmentioned, which is, you know,
try different routes.
So what are the things that youcan share with us, based on
your experience, that otherteachers can maybe copy to help
(11:53):
them identify students whoreally are simply dealing with
issues above and beyond theclassroom world?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
That's an excellent question too.
As much as I would love topretend that I'm somehow some
sort of intuitive teachinggenius, I know that's not true.
I think I've been doing what Ido for a long time and I'm good
at it.
But the kind of instructor I am, I have the benefit of reading
(12:22):
student essays and studentjournals, student essays and
student journals.
I've set up my classroom so Ideliberately prompt students for
attendance for writing practice, a lot of writing practice.
What looks like a very simplehey, do this for some attendance
(12:42):
today is really me pokingaround and trying to dig around
as unobtrusively as possible tosee what's going on.
So I set up the classroom.
In terms of journal entries,small writing assignments and
essays, there's a lot ofself-reflection, a lot of me
using the Socratic methodwithout like just overwhelming
(13:05):
the student with my barrage ofquestions.
I'm as open and honest withthem and discussion boards as I
can be.
So I want them to do the samething.
They have to feel comfortableand they have to feel safe.
They have to feel like I'm notgoing to judge or somehow get
angry if they, if I, disagreewith something they say.
(13:29):
You know, I need them to knowthat.
That's OK, that's what thisenvironment's for.
Once they they know that and Ihave to do it fast, right out of
the gate, because you knowthese are accelerated courses.
Here I jump in immediately toassess you know where the
students are with the very firstjournal entry on day one.
You know emails are answeredvery promptly within a 12 to 24
(13:51):
hour time period.
I will respond to every journalentry and try to establish a
dialogue back and forth withjust the individual students, as
well as using the discussionboard to formulate group
responses to get students toreply to each other, to get oh
hey, you know student X, did yousee what student Y over here
(14:12):
said?
So I'm hoping to help studentslearn that the discussion
board's not just to discuss andget points.
You can actually network hereas well.
That's what this is for topractice those things.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
So let me maybe put it a different way and see if
you would agree with that.
You use your quizzes, yourquestions to really build a
relationship and get to know thestudents better.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yes, all term, long for the entire duration of the
class.
So I have that privilege of Iwant them to know that their
story matters.
It matters a lot.
All of the stories that theytell me make up who they are.
So it's my privilege, likeright away, to get some of their
stories.
They can start out very smallwith the journals but as we go
(15:00):
on, I'm hoping that thisseemingly innocent looking this
is your writing practice.
Really it's just meestablishing a dialogue with the
students to help them throughthe class as best I can, at
whatever level they're at.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Which means that now you can draw a picture right.
You know if they're new toonline, you know if they have a
good home life where they can dowork, or they got to go to the
library or go to McDonald's orStarbucks to get to Internet.
You get to start to draw someof that picture by using your
quizzes and your assignments andyour writing samples, right.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I allow the student.
You know they have time to it'sthe writing process I talk
about a lot in my veryaccelerated courses so they have
time to revise.
So we're establishing even moreof a dialogue back and forth.
So maybe they start out withjust a little bit of info but
eventually, as they become morecomfortable they can, they can
(16:00):
share with me all kinds ofthings that they have going on
without fear of me.
You know, not just judging, butalso not.
Hey, everybody guess what inthe course.
You know, not just judging, butalso not, hey, everybody guess
what in the course.
You know they trust me enoughto know that whatever they say
to me, it does not leave thatarea.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So, if I take this to the next step in the
conversation, as a teacher andI'd be curious if you can tell
us how you get into online andhow was your transition to
online teacher teaching but as ateacher, and you're teaching
students who come at you fromdifferent walks of life what are
the consequences if ourstudents cannot learn and
(16:38):
compete in a digital environment?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
And there are consequences.
You are correct.
I began teaching so long ago ina ground class.
I remember a very young, zippyinstructor just kind of bouncing
off the walls.
Not much has changed in my 20years Now.
I'm just kind of bouncy online.
But I was an online studentfirst many years ago as well,
(17:01):
and then eventually became aground instructor, became a
hybrid instructor, became aground instructor, became a
hybrid instructor and then in2015, a colleague reached out
desperately needing assistancefully online and said please,
can you set up a class, teach it, I need your help.
And I said, okay, I've neverdone fully online, but let me
(17:22):
give it a shot.
And then I just loved it.
I don't think, if it'd been forthat colleague, I may not have
ever given it a shot that early.
This was probably late 2014,early 2015.
So I had a few good years ofonline practice before the
pandemic and then while teachingground for Ross.
Obviously, the pandemic hit.
(17:43):
So I had already had experience.
My transition was very seamless.
I wasn't intuitive enough toknow that it would not be
seamless for all of my peers, mystudents, my friends, and I
helped them as much as I could,showing them how to set up.
You know how to use their phoneto make videos, set up a Vimeo
(18:06):
account, use iMovie, makelectures, use Zoom for full
efficiency, the big blue buttonand Canvas.
I remember, you know, showingthem everything that I possibly
could to help them as well, andI think helping as many people
as I possibly could make theonline transition.
That made it easier for me too.
(18:26):
I wasn't just relying on, well,what did I do?
When I first started?
It was kind of looking atthings I'd been taking for
granted for a while, looking tothem in a new light.
And then how could I use all ofthis data to help my students?
So, helping them through thepandemic, the height of it, was
one thing.
And now here we are, a fewyears out, and I can see how
(18:51):
fast technology is moving.
I mean, it was just a few yearsago, you know.
Ai was a neat thing that onlycertain people talked about.
Now I simply cannot log on tomy phone, to my laptop.
I really can't even stand inline at the grocery store and
not hear someone you know bringup AI.
(19:12):
So about a year and a half,maybe almost two years ago now,
I had to become very proficient,and when I say very proficient.
I also mean like I at least hadto know how to use some AI and
help students navigate thatminefield.
It's just, it's just so fast andI can see how people would be
(19:34):
could be left behind veryquickly, and I didn't want that
for anyone.
I didn't want it before thepandemic, during the pandemic,
and I certainly don't want itnow, because I don't want to see
anyone face any of theconsequences, such as like being
left out of job opportunitiesor promotional opportunity,
advancement opportunities, evenopportunities that can help
(19:56):
stimulate who they are as anindividual, like perhaps
something creative.
I don't want to see them leftbehind from that.
So anything that I can possiblydo to to to help, I'm there for
it.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So you're just discussing the consequences that
people can have if they're leftbehind, if they're not
embracing technology, if they'renot keeping up with the times.
As an institution, we have aresponsibility to try and keep
our students moving forward.
I know for a fact that at Rossit's a daily conversation, not
just between leadership but allacross the board, and how can we
(20:31):
keep embracing technology andother ways to support our
students achieve their goals?
So if we look big picture as aninstitution, how can an
institution help bridge the gap?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
A lot of the ideas that I have for specifically for
Ross.
I remember that.
I remember thinking about themfrom my days, even as a ground
instructor, and now online whenwe talked to earlier even about
things about, you know, thedigital divide, the access
divide.
Just because we're aware of alot of the resources and
opportunities does not meanstudents are aware of them, and
(21:05):
sometimes I've found thatrepetition is key that there are
things that can be availablefor students, you know, be it
something in the community,something you know they're on
campus, something online, andthe more we can make students
aware of whatever theseresources are and in multiple
entry points like can we tellthem an email?
Can we tell them in person?
Can we put it somewhere else inthe classroom?
(21:27):
Tell them in email?
Can we tell them in person?
Can we put it somewhere else inthe classroom?
Whatever the case may be, youknow that I think is critical as
an institution just constantlyletting students know what is
available to them and how it'savailable to them, and then
letting them know if they havequestions do they need
assistance navigating some ofthese resources?
That there's somebody there toassist them.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
So maybe I can build on this, as now we're talking
about you know how can we bridgethe gap, especially when it
comes to our own raw students?
I find you know the issues thatthey face in college kind of
mimic what they face in highschool and in middle school.
So if they came through, youknow, k through 12, struggling
(22:10):
with the resources to learnonline or to use digital skills,
it's likely to multiply incollege.
It doesn't necessarily getbetter automatically just
because they are in college,unless there is an intentional
effort, either at the beginningor before they start, to deliver
programs specifically toimprove their digital and their
(22:33):
online skills.
Do you see that as one avenuewhere students who come from
really an environment where theynever had the training, never
had the resources, never had anyopportunity to improve their
skills?
They should get some trainingbefore they get into online
learning?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I would definitely recommend it.
So we talked about, you know,maybe students have access to
digital technology, the internet.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat they can efficiently use
the time they have to locate allof the needed resources.
The internet is a giganticallyoverwhelming place and just
(23:13):
simply logging on some days it'sa barrage of information.
So I think, helping to trainstudents, helping them navigate
I think repetition is key.
I also think someone there tocoach, to mentor, to literally
just be there for them,supporting them.
(23:35):
So if they had access to folksthat they trusted through Ross,
be it online or on the campus orboth, I think that training may
work very well for them,especially once we find out you
know well where's the student at, what do they need?
What type of technologicaltraining do they need?
(23:55):
Is it simply the basics, or isit integrating the knowledge
they do have and then moving iton to the LMS that we use, or is
it something more advanced,something you know, programmatic
, specific?
Either way, integrating theknowledge they do have and then
moving it on to the LMS that weuse, or is it something more
advanced, something you know,programmatic, specific Either
way, I think being able to meetwith, you know, their department
heads.
Anybody from the institutionwilling to assist you know
compassionately as well, I thinkwould be a tremendous help.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I think we both probably agree that online
learning is here to stay.
I think we both agree thatstudents who come from poor
background benefit from onlinelearning, benefit from hybrid
learning.
It gives them flexibility, butthere are sometimes the attitude
is that my students aren'tready for online learning or my
students are.
My program is not suitable foronline learning and it's usually
designed to reflect onsocioeconomic conditions, right,
(24:46):
so if you're, if you're, poor,you shouldn't do online.
If you came from an environmentwhere you had laptops, you had
Internet, you should do online.
That our students cannotcompete in the long term without
improving their digital skillsbut still making sure they're
equipped to be successfulwithout denying them the
(25:09):
opportunity.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I could never make that assessment.
For someone like, hey, you'renot ready, or this class should
never be online, I don't knowthat I would ever make that
assessment.
The idea of dealing inabsolutes or letting someone
know without a doubt, I feelyou're not ready, I can't do
that.
Everybody was, in fact, it wasyour first time at some point,
(25:32):
whether it's in the classroom orout, whatever the student
needed to feel comfortable,especially with something you
know that they're going to needto be competitive in the future.
A lot of times it's merelyfollowing along with the student
on their journey.
You know, early intervention iskey.
Assessing as the students goingalong at various checkpoints
(25:57):
and multiple people doing that,and even just as many people as
possible, establishingconversation and dialogue with
the student as they go along.
I think that is critical toassessing.
You know, how can we best helpthem on their journey?
If we're not speaking to themor talking to them at regular
intervals, then we're just kindof out here guessing.
(26:19):
I think students, they're verysmart as well.
They intuitively know hey, I'mnot comfortable here.
I'm.
Students, they're very smart aswell.
They intuitively know.
Hey, I'm not comfortable here,I'm feeling left behind.
This guy next to me knows more.
It's really not easy for a lotof people to ask for help, and
that's for multiple reasons.
It's very difficult for somepeople to ask for help, so I
think very strictly, even justletting students know you're
(26:39):
there, in whatever capacity, andoffering help.
I think that's that's also keyto helping the student avoid
some of the potential pitfallsand consequences that they may
face if they're not ready toreally jump into this education
with with, with all they have,even knowing that there's going
to be some obstacles.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You know you're you're clearly very engaged and
you use your classroom materialto get to know your students.
But I think the part that Ithink many of our teachers can
learn from is you tailor yourapproach depending on the
students you're working with.
You know you don't have kind ofa one method for everybody
enough to work with each studentand the needs that they have,
(27:23):
the personal challenges thatthey have, the conditions at
home, the conditions at work.
I mean, I don't necessarilyknow how many people do that,
but I would be curious.
I mean, you've been doing thisfor a long time.
You know how prevalent is yourapproach and the flexibility you
bring to the table in theonline teaching world.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Oh well, I would like it to be more prevalent.
I'm not going to mince wordsthere.
I think a lot of instructorsreally they try very hard, I
think as well.
The teaching profession beingwhat it is, I think a lot of
times instructors really caneasily fall into what I can only
call a rut.
Teachers, you know, they'rehuman, so they'll get a little
(28:07):
burned out or wondering how manytimes they can teach this one
concept, you know, before theirhead explodes.
But that is one of the keycomponents of being an
instructor that you have torealize that things can change
very quickly.
Many different types of peopleneed your help and there is no
time for you to fall into a rutor to rest on your laurels.
(28:31):
Hey, I did this great thingfive years ago.
Well, I'm done now.
There is no time for that that.
You have to remain engaged allthe time.
Students, they need you a lot.
So if you're not prepared to bewilling to change, adapt,
remain flexible, avoid using theone size fits all approach,
(28:54):
because that just it justdoesn't work, and be willing to
admit when you're wrong or youas an instructor need assistance
.
I think you can really reallyreach a lot more students in
that way.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To wrap up, I'm going to give you the last words, but
I'm going to kind of have youtailor it towards maybe giving
our students some advice onlinestudents some advice, especially
students who've never doneonline learning before.
You know, before the pandemic,only 10% of our students took
some part of an online course.
Today, almost two-thirds almostover 70% are either hybrid or
(29:30):
fully online.
Many of our students haveclearly embraced it.
They want to do it.
It gives them flexibility.
We talked about all thedifferent advantages that it
brings to them, but as a school,we're responsible for outcomes.
We want the student to besuccessful, we want them to
graduate, we want them to beable to be placed, and so we are
taking some steps internally onhow to do that.
(29:53):
What would you say to studentswho are now attempting online
learning for the first time?
What should they do before theycommit to it and what should
they do after they commit to itand what should they do after
they commit to it?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I would definitely encourage them to number one, to
make that commitment.
It's important for their owngrowth, for the things that they
want in life, for the goals andthe dreams that they have.
Make that commitment.
It's critical.
Do not give up at the firstsign of an obstacle, because
(30:25):
there will be obstacles.
I think I mentioned thisearlier, you know, in the, in
the podcast here.
There there will be obstacles.
That's without a doubt.
They're going to come.
How you navigate thoseobstacles is absolutely critical
.
Do you ask for help or do youjust?
You know, do you get quiet?
You know, withdraw and hope theproblem goes away.
(30:46):
That never works.
So I would encourage allstudents to, once they make that
commitment, always ask for helpas needed.
Always ask questions, ask a tonof questions, ask as many
questions as you feel the needto ask.
Meet as many people as humanlypossible online, as many people
(31:07):
as you can.
Establish a dialogue withinstructors, administrators,
fellow peers.
Meet them all, because younever know what that connection,
that human connection, willbring to you until you try, and
above all else, I would.
I would want students to knowthat.
What's the famous quote thatsaid before enlightenment comes
(31:30):
confusion.
So if you're feeling reallyconfused, don't worry, because
enlightenment's right around thecorner, it's true.
So if you're experiencing alittle bit of confusion, it's
true.
So if you're experiencing alittle bit of confusion, good
things are around the corner ifyou just keep at it.
But if you give up, the game isover.
And that's I don't think peopleset out, you know, hoping a
(31:57):
dream or a goal dies.
I think they set out with thefullest intention of realizing
that dream and goal to itsfullest, most magical
possibility.
And you know, as a teacher, I'mhoping that for you too.
I kind of want to see it.
And then I want you to, afteryou graduate and get those
dreams, I want you to come backand tell me all about it.
That's what I want.
So that is, that is some advicethat I would, I would give to
students.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Well, thank you, rhonda, it's a really great
place to wrap it up today.
But thank you, rhonda, it's areally great place to wrap it up
today, but thank you so muchfor your time you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
It was a really of a pleasure being here.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Thank you both thanks for listening to make the leap.
Be sure to visit our site,rosspodcastcom or the podcast
platform of your choice, tolisten to past episodes as well
as subscribe, so you never missfuture episodes.
We hope you join us two weeksfrom now for our next episode as
(32:47):
we learn more about educationfor social change.
Is money a curse or a cure?
See you then.
Thank you.
Welcome to Make the Leap, a podcast focused on the
many economic hurdles facingcollege students, lower income
individuals and those strivingto move up the social ladder.
I'm Brad Constant here withGeorge Graham.
George, what is today's topic?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
All right, thank you, brad.
So today we're going to betalking about the digital divide
and hybrid learning, onlinelearning and the impact on
low-income students.
This is not a new topic, sowe're revisiting something that
we've discussed within the Rosscommunity and on this podcast as
we came out of the pandemic.
But the digital divide is aproblem that affects people from
(00:54):
all walks of life.
The two main key areas in it isaccess to high-speed internet
and access to reliable devices.
Why do we talk about it, why dowe want to address it and why do
we want to close the gap?
It's because the consequencesfor the digital divide are
massive in terms of impact onour students.
(01:15):
Unequal access to digitalresources can reinforce existing
issues that we have, whether insociety, economics, education,
disparities, creating adisadvantaged cycle that the
students will never ever be ableto come out of it.
It also restricts our students'ability to obtain information,
education, employmentopportunities, services,
(01:36):
healthcare, knowledge and anyother essential services.
This truly can limit theability of our students to have
any kind of social mobility.
And the reality is this gaponly gets worse when it
coincides with economicinequality and the gap continues
to to widen, and then you'vegot a huge difference between
(01:58):
those who have the resources andthose are in the marginalized
communities, so that that's ourtopic for today.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Brad George, I'm glad we're reviewing this topic.
Like you mentioned, it is nearand dear to our work at Ross.
I'm also looking forward tochatting with our guests.
Today we are chatting with DrRhonda Baumann, who has been
with Ross since 2018.
She is a graduate of the KentState University, honors College
, antioch University, mcggregorand Argosy University.
She is currently the onlineEnglish and literature
(02:29):
instructor for Ross CollegeOnline.
She has been a writer andeditor for over 30 years and has
been an instructor for over 20years.
In her free time, she walks herdog, a half-beagle, half-aussie
shepherd named Pumpkin.
She also writes essays andarticles for various magazines,
such as Girls and On Film.
She also writes essays andarticles for various magazines,
such as Girls and On Film.
Even more intriguing, she hasspearheaded her own zine series,
(02:51):
medium Chill, of which she iscurrently working on the ninth
issue that will be published onAmazon in the near future.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Rhonda, thank you so much for joining us today.
You're welcome.
It's good to be here.
To begin, as I started with theintro, this is not a new topic
for us.
We've visited this topic beforeon this podcast and its impact
on our student.
But to get started, I'd like totake your take on online
learning, the digital divide,what it is, what you see in it
and its impact on students.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, that's a very big question, the digital divide
.
It encompasses a lot ofdifferent things.
It takes me back to my earlydays of sitting in my first
sociology classes, thinkingabout people who have access to
things and people who don't haveaccess to things, and what
kinds of things don't they haveaccess to.
The digital divide itself isjust.
It's huge, it's vast, itaffects millions of people,
(03:45):
including a lot of my students.
In other words, you know whatkinds of things do they need to
be successful?
Very basic things, I think.
A lot of things, too, that Ioften take for granted.
So I have to remember, you know, my students.
They need things like a viablelaptop and a stable internet
(04:06):
connection.
They need time as well, awayfrom work, to learn how these
things work in order to besuccessful in a lot of the
classes I teach.
So does the digital divide havea big effect on millions of
people, including my students?
Absolutely.
Now how do we reach across thatdivide and bring everyone over?
(04:29):
I guess that's the big question.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
When we talk about it in terms of its impact.
You know, when, coming out ofthe pandemic, our students
really were forced into it.
You know, ross, for example, weonly had a very, very small
online population majority.
Example, we only had a very,very small online population
majority, a clear majority.
Almost 90% of our students werein-person learning, so they got
forced into it.
Now, some of our students findit very appealing, right?
(04:54):
Because if you're a single mom,if you're working two jobs, if
you're trying to be at home withyour kids and not having to be
gone as much, you know, onlinelearning or hybrid learning is
very appealing, but sometimes italso feels punitive because
they're not ready.
They're not prepared and theydon't have the resources.
As a teacher, how do you see,like, how do you tell when
(05:18):
somebody is prepared to be anonline student and somebody that
is not really equipped to be anonline student?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
A lot of times my more eager students.
They jump right in, they'reready, they're jumping into the
discussion boards and they'reemailing me and they're liking
my comments on the announcements.
Other times students are just,you know, very, very quiet.
They're not as eager to jump in, and so I reach out to everyone
.
I leave no student behind.
Sometimes I probably think thatmy students are like, wow, does
this instructor ever stoptalking?
(05:51):
But I would rather reach outtoo much than not enough.
Whether the student finds itappealing or not, I want them to
have the most positiveexperience they possibly can in
my class, and if that means Ireach them via email, zoom text,
(06:12):
the discussion board, the gradebox, feedback, the
announcements, whatever, I wantto make sure that they have all
of those options available tothem to wherever they feel
comfortable.
And I let them know that I knowthat the height of the pandemic
is over, but that I vividlyremember my last day teaching a
(06:34):
ground campus for Ross too.
I vividly remember it like itwas just 10 minutes ago and I
would be lying if I said Ididn't miss it a little bit, but
that I've been an onlineinstructor and a hybrid
instructor for so long that I'mcomfortable here for all of you
too.
And just like I'm speaking toyou now, this is exactly how I
would.
I would speak to a student andit's not just about in the
(06:57):
assignments for my class ortheir due dates, but I want to
know about them and their lives,and I'm here as a almost like a
sounding board in a way,someone they can bounce ideas
off of, someone that they canactually talk to without you
know, any judgment.
Sometimes I don't have anyadvice, I just listen and I need
them to know that I'm here forall of that.
(07:19):
That I understand they havemany things going on.
I know my students.
They have families to take careof and sometimes multiple jobs.
They have more than one classgoing on.
Maybe they have questions too,and they're just embarrassed to
ask.
Like just today, a studentreached out and said hey, do you
offer essay refreshers?
(07:39):
It's like an essay refresher.
Yeah, can you remind me aboutthesis statements and topic
sentences?
And I said, absolutely, I cando that.
And how do you want that?
Do you want to do you want totalk over zoom?
Do you want me to make aPowerPoint?
Do you want me to write downthe lecture for you?
All of the above and thestudent really emailed back and
(08:00):
said I want all of it.
I want everything.
I said, okay, I can do that too.
So whatever part of the digitaldivide that we have to, you
know, look at and attempt to,you know, reach across and pull
folks over.
I want them to know that I'mthere for that all day, no
matter what.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So, rhonda, I know from our previous conversation
you are passionate about makingyour class as accessible as
possible.
Can you help us paint a picturefor people that might be
outside of the classroom,outside of the whole hybrid or
online environment, on what theaccess divide is for especially
low income students, like theyare facing hurdles just to try
(08:40):
and get online at some points.
Can you do you have anyexamples?
Could you paint a betterpicture of that for us?
Speaker 3 (08:47):
So even just this term, I'm noticing that students
may have access to hey, I havemy laptop, I have a little bit
of time here between jobs.
But just because they haveaccess doesn't necessarily mean
that they're just jumping rightin and without any type of issue
(09:08):
completing those assignments.
So just this term, I'm noticingthat students are they're
experiencing a high volume of Iguess I would just call glitches
.
My laptop has suddenly shut off, my phone has been shut off.
I can't get a connection here.
Sometimes students may havetechnology.
(09:30):
They may be temporarilydisplaced out of the home, they
may be, in fact in a not safeenvironment.
So they have access to all ofthese lovely technological
things.
If those things are not workingproperly for them, they may not
know how to address, how to getthose things fixed.
Secondly, if they have otherthings that are impeding the use
(09:54):
of that technology, they mayfind it very difficult to find
their footing.
And if they miss one assignmentand they fall behind just a
little bit, they startapologizing and feeling badly.
And I tell them you reallydon't have to apologize to me,
there's absolutely no reason toapologize.
How can I help you get back ontrack?
Anything that I can possibly doto include them so they don't
(10:19):
feel left behind in any way.
Sometimes even the most minorinconvenience, it can be really
overwhelming.
You know, you have one littlething, and then another little
thing and, oh my goodness, herecomes a big thing.
Sometimes people will just,they will go quiet and they will
shut down.
I respect that.
I will not stop reaching out tothem and until the very end of
(10:41):
class I will continue to saywe've still got time, we've
still got time, there's stillsome time here.
What can we do?
I'm just looking for your besteffort.
I say and they probably gettired of me saying there's no
such thing as perfection.
But there really isn't a suchthing as perfection.
If I don't know what that'slooked like after 30 years, I
(11:01):
would never expect a student toknow what that looks like either
.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I'm curious, rhonda, so you talked about access in
terms of do they have access toa laptop, and then you talked
through the issues that they canhave, whether they have
internet, or is it safeenvironment, or are they even in
a place where they do that?
What are the things that youuse to kind of help you
formulate that the student ishaving issues above and beyond
(11:28):
the classroom environment?
They're having issues relatingto, maybe, their home life,
maybe issues relating to poverty, maybe issues relating to
technology.
You know, what are the thingsyou pick up on to help you kind
of move down the second path youmentioned, which is, you know,
try different routes.
So what are the things that youcan share with us, based on
your experience, that otherteachers can maybe copy to help
(11:53):
them identify students whoreally are simply dealing with
issues above and beyond theclassroom world?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
That's an excellent question too.
As much as I would love topretend that I'm somehow some
sort of intuitive teachinggenius, I know that's not true.
I think I've been doing what Ido for a long time and I'm good
at it.
But the kind of instructor I am, I have the benefit of reading
(12:22):
student essays and studentjournals, student essays and
student journals.
I've set up my classroom so Ideliberately prompt students for
attendance for writing practice, a lot of writing practice.
What looks like a very simplehey, do this for some attendance
(12:42):
today is really me pokingaround and trying to dig around
as unobtrusively as possible tosee what's going on.
So I set up the classroom.
In terms of journal entries,small writing assignments and
essays, there's a lot ofself-reflection, a lot of me
using the Socratic methodwithout like just overwhelming
(13:05):
the student with my barrage ofquestions.
I'm as open and honest withthem and discussion boards as I
can be.
So I want them to do the samething.
They have to feel comfortableand they have to feel safe.
They have to feel like I'm notgoing to judge or somehow get
angry if they, if I, disagreewith something they say.
(13:29):
You know, I need them to knowthat.
That's OK, that's what thisenvironment's for.
Once they they know that and Ihave to do it fast, right out of
the gate, because you knowthese are accelerated courses.
Here I jump in immediately toassess you know where the
students are with the very firstjournal entry on day one.
You know emails are answeredvery promptly within a 12 to 24
(13:51):
hour time period.
I will respond to every journalentry and try to establish a
dialogue back and forth withjust the individual students, as
well as using the discussionboard to formulate group
responses to get students toreply to each other, to get oh
hey, you know student X, did yousee what student Y over here
(14:12):
said?
So I'm hoping to help studentslearn that the discussion
board's not just to discuss andget points.
You can actually network hereas well.
That's what this is for topractice those things.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
So let me maybe put it a different way and see if
you would agree with that.
You use your quizzes, yourquestions to really build a
relationship and get to know thestudents better.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yes, all term, long for the entire duration of the
class.
So I have that privilege of Iwant them to know that their
story matters.
It matters a lot.
All of the stories that theytell me make up who they are.
So it's my privilege, likeright away, to get some of their
stories.
They can start out very smallwith the journals but as we go
(15:00):
on, I'm hoping that thisseemingly innocent looking this
is your writing practice.
Really it's just meestablishing a dialogue with the
students to help them throughthe class as best I can, at
whatever level they're at.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Which means that now you can draw a picture right.
You know if they're new toonline, you know if they have a
good home life where they can dowork, or they got to go to the
library or go to McDonald's orStarbucks to get to Internet.
You get to start to draw someof that picture by using your
quizzes and your assignments andyour writing samples, right.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I allow the student.
You know they have time to it'sthe writing process I talk
about a lot in my veryaccelerated courses so they have
time to revise.
So we're establishing even moreof a dialogue back and forth.
So maybe they start out withjust a little bit of info but
eventually, as they become morecomfortable they can, they can
(16:00):
share with me all kinds ofthings that they have going on
without fear of me.
You know, not just judging, butalso not.
Hey, everybody guess what inthe course.
You know, not just judging, butalso not, hey, everybody guess
what in the course.
You know they trust me enoughto know that whatever they say
to me, it does not leave thatarea.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So, if I take this to the next step in the
conversation, as a teacher andI'd be curious if you can tell
us how you get into online andhow was your transition to
online teacher teaching but as ateacher, and you're teaching
students who come at you fromdifferent walks of life what are
the consequences if ourstudents cannot learn and
(16:38):
compete in a digital environment?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
And there are consequences.
You are correct.
I began teaching so long ago ina ground class.
I remember a very young, zippyinstructor just kind of bouncing
off the walls.
Not much has changed in my 20years Now.
I'm just kind of bouncy online.
But I was an online studentfirst many years ago as well,
(17:01):
and then eventually became aground instructor, became a
hybrid instructor, became aground instructor, became a
hybrid instructor and then in2015, a colleague reached out
desperately needing assistancefully online and said please,
can you set up a class, teach it, I need your help.
And I said, okay, I've neverdone fully online, but let me
(17:22):
give it a shot.
And then I just loved it.
I don't think, if it'd been forthat colleague, I may not have
ever given it a shot that early.
This was probably late 2014,early 2015.
So I had a few good years ofonline practice before the
pandemic and then while teachingground for Ross.
Obviously, the pandemic hit.
(17:43):
So I had already had experience.
My transition was very seamless.
I wasn't intuitive enough toknow that it would not be
seamless for all of my peers, mystudents, my friends, and I
helped them as much as I could,showing them how to set up.
You know how to use their phoneto make videos, set up a Vimeo
(18:06):
account, use iMovie, makelectures, use Zoom for full
efficiency, the big blue buttonand Canvas.
I remember, you know, showingthem everything that I possibly
could to help them as well, andI think helping as many people
as I possibly could make theonline transition.
That made it easier for me too.
(18:26):
I wasn't just relying on, well,what did I do?
When I first started?
It was kind of looking atthings I'd been taking for
granted for a while, looking tothem in a new light.
And then how could I use all ofthis data to help my students?
So, helping them through thepandemic, the height of it, was
one thing.
And now here we are, a fewyears out, and I can see how
(18:51):
fast technology is moving.
I mean, it was just a few yearsago, you know.
Ai was a neat thing that onlycertain people talked about.
Now I simply cannot log on tomy phone, to my laptop.
I really can't even stand inline at the grocery store and
not hear someone you know bringup AI.
(19:12):
So about a year and a half,maybe almost two years ago now,
I had to become very proficient,and when I say very proficient.
I also mean like I at least hadto know how to use some AI and
help students navigate thatminefield.
It's just, it's just so fast andI can see how people would be
(19:34):
could be left behind veryquickly, and I didn't want that
for anyone.
I didn't want it before thepandemic, during the pandemic,
and I certainly don't want itnow, because I don't want to see
anyone face any of theconsequences, such as like being
left out of job opportunitiesor promotional opportunity,
advancement opportunities, evenopportunities that can help
(19:56):
stimulate who they are as anindividual, like perhaps
something creative.
I don't want to see them leftbehind from that.
So anything that I can possiblydo to to to help, I'm there for
it.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So you're just discussing the consequences that
people can have if they're leftbehind, if they're not
embracing technology, if they'renot keeping up with the times.
As an institution, we have aresponsibility to try and keep
our students moving forward.
I know for a fact that at Rossit's a daily conversation, not
just between leadership but allacross the board, and how can we
(20:31):
keep embracing technology andother ways to support our
students achieve their goals?
So if we look big picture as aninstitution, how can an
institution help bridge the gap?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
A lot of the ideas that I have for specifically for
Ross.
I remember that.
I remember thinking about themfrom my days, even as a ground
instructor, and now online whenwe talked to earlier even about
things about, you know, thedigital divide, the access
divide.
Just because we're aware of alot of the resources and
opportunities does not meanstudents are aware of them, and
(21:05):
sometimes I've found thatrepetition is key that there are
things that can be availablefor students, you know, be it
something in the community,something you know they're on
campus, something online, andthe more we can make students
aware of whatever theseresources are and in multiple
entry points like can we tellthem an email?
Can we tell them in person?
Can we put it somewhere else inthe classroom?
(21:27):
Tell them in email?
Can we tell them in person?
Can we put it somewhere else inthe classroom?
Whatever the case may be, youknow that I think is critical as
an institution just constantlyletting students know what is
available to them and how it'savailable to them, and then
letting them know if they havequestions do they need
assistance navigating some ofthese resources?
That there's somebody there toassist them.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
So maybe I can build on this, as now we're talking
about you know how can we bridgethe gap, especially when it
comes to our own raw students?
I find you know the issues thatthey face in college kind of
mimic what they face in highschool and in middle school.
So if they came through, youknow, k through 12, struggling
(22:10):
with the resources to learnonline or to use digital skills,
it's likely to multiply incollege.
It doesn't necessarily getbetter automatically just
because they are in college,unless there is an intentional
effort, either at the beginningor before they start, to deliver
programs specifically toimprove their digital and their
(22:33):
online skills.
Do you see that as one avenuewhere students who come from
really an environment where theynever had the training, never
had the resources, never had anyopportunity to improve their
skills?
They should get some trainingbefore they get into online
learning?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I would definitely recommend it.
So we talked about, you know,maybe students have access to
digital technology, the internet.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat they can efficiently use
the time they have to locate allof the needed resources.
The internet is a giganticallyoverwhelming place and just
(23:13):
simply logging on some days it'sa barrage of information.
So I think, helping to trainstudents, helping them navigate
I think repetition is key.
I also think someone there tocoach, to mentor, to literally
just be there for them,supporting them.
(23:35):
So if they had access to folksthat they trusted through Ross,
be it online or on the campus orboth, I think that training may
work very well for them,especially once we find out you
know well where's the student at, what do they need?
What type of technologicaltraining do they need?
(23:55):
Is it simply the basics, or isit integrating the knowledge
they do have and then moving iton to the LMS that we use, or is
it something more advanced,something you know, programmatic
, specific?
Either way, integrating theknowledge they do have and then
moving it on to the LMS that weuse, or is it something more
advanced, something you know,programmatic, specific Either
way, I think being able to meetwith, you know, their department
heads.
Anybody from the institutionwilling to assist you know
compassionately as well, I thinkwould be a tremendous help.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I think we both probably agree that online
learning is here to stay.
I think we both agree thatstudents who come from poor
background benefit from onlinelearning, benefit from hybrid
learning.
It gives them flexibility, butthere are sometimes the attitude
is that my students aren'tready for online learning or my
students are.
My program is not suitable foronline learning and it's usually
designed to reflect onsocioeconomic conditions, right,
(24:46):
so if you're, if you're, poor,you shouldn't do online.
If you came from an environmentwhere you had laptops, you had
Internet, you should do online.
That our students cannotcompete in the long term without
improving their digital skillsbut still making sure they're
equipped to be successfulwithout denying them the
(25:09):
opportunity.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I could never make that assessment.
For someone like, hey, you'renot ready, or this class should
never be online, I don't knowthat I would ever make that
assessment.
The idea of dealing inabsolutes or letting someone
know without a doubt, I feelyou're not ready, I can't do
that.
Everybody was, in fact, it wasyour first time at some point,
(25:32):
whether it's in the classroom orout, whatever the student
needed to feel comfortable,especially with something you
know that they're going to needto be competitive in the future.
A lot of times it's merelyfollowing along with the student
on their journey.
You know, early intervention iskey.
Assessing as the students goingalong at various checkpoints
(25:57):
and multiple people doing that,and even just as many people as
possible, establishingconversation and dialogue with
the student as they go along.
I think that is critical toassessing.
You know, how can we best helpthem on their journey?
If we're not speaking to themor talking to them at regular
intervals, then we're just kindof out here guessing.
(26:19):
I think students, they're verysmart as well.
They intuitively know hey, I'mnot comfortable here.
I'm.
Students, they're very smart aswell.
They intuitively know.
Hey, I'm not comfortable here,I'm feeling left behind.
This guy next to me knows more.
It's really not easy for a lotof people to ask for help, and
that's for multiple reasons.
It's very difficult for somepeople to ask for help, so I
think very strictly, even justletting students know you're
(26:39):
there, in whatever capacity, andoffering help.
I think that's that's also keyto helping the student avoid
some of the potential pitfallsand consequences that they may
face if they're not ready toreally jump into this education
with with, with all they have,even knowing that there's going
to be some obstacles.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
You know you're you're clearly very engaged and
you use your classroom materialto get to know your students.
But I think the part that Ithink many of our teachers can
learn from is you tailor yourapproach depending on the
students you're working with.
You know you don't have kind ofa one method for everybody
enough to work with each studentand the needs that they have,
(27:23):
the personal challenges thatthey have, the conditions at
home, the conditions at work.
I mean, I don't necessarilyknow how many people do that,
but I would be curious.
I mean, you've been doing thisfor a long time.
You know how prevalent is yourapproach and the flexibility you
bring to the table in theonline teaching world.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Oh well, I would like it to be more prevalent.
I'm not going to mince wordsthere.
I think a lot of instructorsreally they try very hard, I
think as well.
The teaching profession beingwhat it is, I think a lot of
times instructors really caneasily fall into what I can only
call a rut.
Teachers, you know, they'rehuman, so they'll get a little
(28:07):
burned out or wondering how manytimes they can teach this one
concept, you know, before theirhead explodes.
But that is one of the keycomponents of being an
instructor that you have torealize that things can change
very quickly.
Many different types of peopleneed your help and there is no
time for you to fall into a rutor to rest on your laurels.
(28:31):
Hey, I did this great thingfive years ago.
Well, I'm done now.
There is no time for that that.
You have to remain engaged allthe time.
Students, they need you a lot.
So if you're not prepared to bewilling to change, adapt,
remain flexible, avoid using theone size fits all approach,
(28:54):
because that just it justdoesn't work, and be willing to
admit when you're wrong or youas an instructor need assistance
.
I think you can really reallyreach a lot more students in
that way.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To wrap up, I'm going to give you the last words, but
I'm going to kind of have youtailor it towards maybe giving
our students some advice onlinestudents some advice, especially
students who've never doneonline learning before.
You know, before the pandemic,only 10% of our students took
some part of an online course.
Today, almost two-thirds almostover 70% are either hybrid or
(29:30):
fully online.
Many of our students haveclearly embraced it.
They want to do it.
It gives them flexibility.
We talked about all thedifferent advantages that it
brings to them, but as a school,we're responsible for outcomes.
We want the student to besuccessful, we want them to
graduate, we want them to beable to be placed, and so we are
taking some steps internally onhow to do that.
(29:53):
What would you say to studentswho are now attempting online
learning for the first time?
What should they do before theycommit to it and what should
they do after they commit to itand what should they do after
they commit to it?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
I would definitely encourage them to number one, to
make that commitment.
It's important for their owngrowth, for the things that they
want in life, for the goals andthe dreams that they have.
Make that commitment.
It's critical.
Do not give up at the firstsign of an obstacle, because
(30:25):
there will be obstacles.
I think I mentioned thisearlier, you know, in the, in
the podcast here.
There there will be obstacles.
That's without a doubt.
They're going to come.
How you navigate thoseobstacles is absolutely critical
.
Do you ask for help or do youjust?
You know, do you get quiet?
You know, withdraw and hope theproblem goes away.
(30:46):
That never works.
So I would encourage allstudents to, once they make that
commitment, always ask for helpas needed.
Always ask questions, ask a tonof questions, ask as many
questions as you feel the needto ask.
Meet as many people as humanlypossible online, as many people
(31:07):
as you can.
Establish a dialogue withinstructors, administrators,
fellow peers.
Meet them all, because younever know what that connection,
that human connection, willbring to you until you try, and
above all else, I would.
I would want students to knowthat.
What's the famous quote thatsaid before enlightenment comes
(31:30):
confusion.
So if you're feeling reallyconfused, don't worry, because
enlightenment's right around thecorner, it's true.
So if you're experiencing alittle bit of confusion, it's
true.
So if you're experiencing alittle bit of confusion, good
things are around the corner ifyou just keep at it.
But if you give up, the game isover.
And that's I don't think peopleset out, you know, hoping a
(31:57):
dream or a goal dies.
I think they set out with thefullest intention of realizing
that dream and goal to itsfullest, most magical
possibility.
And you know, as a teacher, I'mhoping that for you too.
I kind of want to see it.
And then I want you to, afteryou graduate and get those
dreams, I want you to come backand tell me all about it.
That's what I want.
So that is, that is some advicethat I would, I would give to
students.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Well, thank you, rhonda, it's a really great
place to wrap it up today.
But thank you, rhonda, it's areally great place to wrap it up
today, but thank you so muchfor your time you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
It was a really of a pleasure being here.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Thank you both thanks for listening to make the leap.
Be sure to visit our site,rosspodcastcom or the podcast
platform of your choice, tolisten to past episodes as well
as subscribe, so you never missfuture episodes.
We hope you join us two weeksfrom now for our next episode as
(32:47):
we learn more about educationfor social change.
Is money a curse or a cure?
See you then.
Thank you.
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