May 15, 2024 • 33 mins
Have you ever considered the silent struggles of America's foster children, hidden in plain sight until a dire headline seizes our attention? Together with our passionate guest, Kristen Beal, who has tirelessly worked with juvenile offenders and advocated for child victims, we peel back the layers of the foster care system to reveal the intricate challenges faced by nearly 400,000 young souls. As Kristen shares her insights from her roles in the Delaware Peace Collaborative and Friends of CASA, we unfurl the stories of these 'invisible' children, underscoring the transformative power of a consistent, nurturing adult presence in their lives.
This episode traverses the landscape of foster care, from the Court Appointed Special Advocates in Ohio to the struggles facing older teens on the cusp of independence. We tackle the tough questions: Why do educational deficits persist among foster children? What leads to the overrepresentation of impoverished youth in the system? And most importantly, how can education and individual advocacy bridge the gap of access and opportunity? Through our heartfelt discussion, an invitation is extended to each listener to become a beacon of hope, as we celebrate the victories born of collaboration between foster parents, county services, and educators. Join us for a conversation that not only sheds light on these pressing issues but also ignites a call to action for the sake of our nation's foster youth.
National Casa - The National CASA/GAL Association for Children supports and promotes court-appointed volunteer advocacy for children and youth who have experienced abuse or neglect.
childwelfare.gov - a gateway to trusted resources on the child welfare continuum.
We’d love to hear from! Send us a message or topic idea.
Stay up to date on Make the Leap by following us on our website, rosspodcast.com, Facebook and LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brad (00:10):
Welcome to Make the Leap, a podcast focused on the many
economic hurdles facing collegestudents, lower income
individuals and those strivingto move up the social ladder.
I'm Brad.
George (00:33):
Constant.
Here is my fellow host, georgeGraham.
George, how are you today?
I am good, brad.
Thank you for the opportunityto get restarted.
We took a break as a result ofour move and now we're back,
ready to go.
Result of our move and nowwe're back, ready to go.
Today's topic is the invisiblechildren, or what I call the
expendable kids in foster care.
Almost 400,000 kids live infoster care in the US.
(00:55):
For the most part, they aretotally invisible, unless there
is a lawsuit or there's anaccident or some tragic event
that makes the media or hit thenews.
To be sure, many foster parentsare loving and supporting, but
being a foster child in Americameans something completely
different and, for the most part, sometimes painfully different.
(01:16):
So our guest today is Kristen.
Kristen works at Ross, but togive you a little bit more
background on Kristen, I willturn it over to Brad.
Brad (01:25):
Thanks, George.
Yeah, Kristen is the directorof training.
She designs and facilitatesengaging learning experiences
for Ross.
Her interest in foster carebegan when she was finishing her
master's in instructionaldesign.
Her capstone was focused oncreating units of instruction on
emotional skill building forfelony one and felony two
juvenile offenders in the stateof Ohio.
In the analysis phase of herproject she learned that nearly
(01:46):
all of the young men whovolunteered to participate in
her research project had beenmoved around in the state's
foster system.
Shortly thereafter, whileworking as a violence prevention
educator, she was a member ofDelaware Peace Collaborative and
here she began to see how, as asociety, we could do better for
our kids and their future.
Kristen is currently a boardmember for Friends of CASA,
which is Court Appointed SpecialAdvocates Program of Delaware
(02:09):
and Union Counties, whichrecruits, screens, trains and
supports community volunteers toadvocate in court for child
victims of abuse and neglect.
Kristen, thanks for joining ustoday.
Kristen (02:20):
Well hi, thank you for inviting me.
I'm very appreciative.
George (02:24):
So, kristen, I know Brad gave us a little bit of a
background, but you know, withover 400,000 kids and, depending
on what numbers you use,sometimes almost half a million
kids in foster care, how didthat get on your radar, even to
begin through your studies andyour work?
Kristen (02:39):
It really began, as Brad mentioned, when I began
working on my master's ininstructional design and I had
the really interestingexperience of working with 60
men 20 men at each of the threeOhio youth facilities where my
(02:59):
task was to work with afaith-based group that had a
prison ministry was to work witha faith-based group that had a
prison ministry and theirprogramming focused on
transitioning youth but totransition them from release
from prison to life.
And I first got interested init when we had to have the kids
fill out a survey questionnaireand the participants in the
(03:30):
survey were age 16 to 21.
And almost all of them had beenthrough the foster system.
So my eyes were really wideopen at that part because when I
began designing some socialemotional skill building, I
realized the piece that a caringadult, a parent, a foster,
gives to those kids at the frontend of their youth and these
kids might have missed or neverever had.
(03:52):
So my eyes were open then.
Brad (03:55):
So, kristen, that led you, as we mentioned, to the
Delaware Peace Collaborative andthen into CASA.
How does CASA support thefoster system?
Kristen (04:08):
and then into CASA.
How does CASA support thefoster system?
Oh, it's wonderful.
So I'll speak about the stateof Ohio, but not all counties.
There's 88 counties in Ohio andnot all of them have a CASA
office.
Some counties will share orcoordinate together their
assignments and they are managedor administered out of the
juvenile courts in each county.
So CASA itself, on a nationallevel was founded by a judge and
(04:34):
then now the judges in thesecounties are trained on how to
administer the CASA or GALGuardian Ad Litem programs,
administer the CASA or GALGuardian Ad Litem programs, and
they're designed then to appointsomebody who, a volunteer, who
works with an abused orneglected kid.
(04:54):
So it could be a kiddo likeyoung, it could be a kiddo
that's maybe in high school.
It could be somebody that's ina kinship situation where a
family member is caring for achild in the system, or it's a
true or working with a fosterfamily, and this volunteer goes
(05:23):
in front of the courts and inthe kid's life like teacher who
is the guardian right now?
At the time of that, the judges, the guidance counselor,
doctors, therapists, and they'llkind of tag team it and then
that volunteer will make arecommendation about what's in
(05:45):
the best interest of the child.
So when I first became familiarwith CASA, I was introduced to
the Fostering Futures program,which is then a fostering
experience for older teens, sokids that are getting close to
(06:06):
that transition age.
George (06:09):
So the transition age, Kristen, I'm assuming this is
the aging out.
Is that what you're referringto?
Kristen (06:14):
That's exactly right.
George (06:16):
Yeah, and I think that the age out in general is around
22 years old.
Right, when they have to exitthe foster care system, that's
right.
When you sent me your note onfoster kids, I have to admit I
knew very, very little, and sowhen I have to exit the foster
care system, that's right.
When you sent me your note onfoster kids, I have to admit I
knew very, very little, and sowhen I started to do some
homework and I always look at itfrom the eyes of our students
and from the areas that impactour students at Ross you know
(06:38):
the three elements.
You know that I'd like to touchbase on today, time allowing.
One is the issue of race, andI'm going to come back to that
for a little bit.
Two aging out and how many ofthese kids ultimately end up
having an encounter with thejustice system in some form or
another.
And then the third one is theeffort to try to keep families
(07:01):
together, and we'll probably tryto spend a little bit more time
on that if we can.
But I want to start with race.
So when I pulled the data, youknow one quarter of kids in
foster care are African-Americankids, when African-American
represents somewhere between 13to 14 percent of our population,
so you know they're definitelyoverrepresented in the foster
(07:25):
care system.
So in and I have my own theorybased on some of the stuff that
I've looked at, but maybe letyou talk about why our
minorities tend to be have abigger presence in terms of kids
in the foster care system inthe US.
Kristen (07:44):
I don't have additional statistics on this.
However, I could address thiswith a topic called adverse
childhood experiences, or ACEsas they call them, and I have
gone through lots of research,but I just don't have data right
now with me.
But the research talks abouthow frequently a child
(08:06):
experiences these adverseconditions or traumatic episodes
in their life and how itaffects the rest of their
childhood and then into theiradulthood, as well as their
health, income, potential,earning, potential, housing
access, all things like that,because of the how the child is
(08:29):
affected by ACEs.
George (08:31):
So, kristen, let me kind of break it another way.
So when I looked at why kidsend up in the foster care system
, it's like three big bucketsright.
One is neglect like three outof four end up there due to
neglect.
The other 25% is split betweenphysical abuse, sexual abuse,
abandonment and some otherissues in keeping families
(09:08):
together and trying to getfamilies to function as a family
unit, versus the foster systemthat is sometimes overburdened.
Foster parents tend to be dealwith burnout.
They're in and out of thesystem.
Kids are bouncing around.
So talk to me a little bitabout race and the quickness
sometimes to pull kids fromfamilies and what efforts
sometimes we need to that's aninteresting question.
Kristen (09:35):
I was actually looking at it this time when you asked
it, this time in a differentfashion.
So I was looking at thedemographics, perhaps, of the
county where I live and where Iwork with the CASA team.
So the demographics might evenbe different than in some of the
areas where or the countieswhere we have students, and so
(09:57):
my perspective might be skewedas well.
However, I know that nowadaysthe foster system is driven
towards unification and so theycreated this like a CASA group
out of the juvenile court as away to have a non-biased person
(10:17):
make all of these introductionsand conduct all these interviews
to determine what's best,instead of relying on the
kinship as a solution or relyingon a single parent solution,
but rather focusing on what wasbest for the child, but rather
focusing on what was best forthe child.
(10:38):
So, as a part of thecourt-ordered services, then if
a parent is trying to get theirchild back, they may be required
to complete certain assignmentsbefore they could get their
kids back and out of foster.
So if we're working forreunification, then we would
provide the services that theywould need in order to meet
those guidelines established bythe judge in juvenile court
(11:00):
family juvenile court?
So it might be.
Do you have employment?
Do you have housing?
Is it a safe place?
Have you taken parentingclasses?
And that CASA that I talkedabout earlier is also going to
have a part and a voice in eachone of those components too.
And it's as simple as the CASAwould be attending a supervised
(11:27):
visit with parent and fosterchild, their own child who's in
foster care, their own childwho's in foster care.
And so when we see all of thosecomponents that are required
for the judge to say here,here's the reunification process
at in action, um, that casawould be a part of each one of
those pieces.
So always towards reunification.
(11:50):
Sometimes casas are very, uh,stressed or disappointed in
whatever decision the the judgemight make about what's best for
the child, and so we kind ofwork in all of those pieces to
at least advocate for them ineach one, each category.
Brad (12:10):
So, kristen, hearing that, it actually brings me back to a
personal experience that mywife and I had.
We went through the wholeprocess of getting certified for
refugee foster care and it wasalmost step by step what you
just described.
We had to attend classes, thenwe had to make sure that our
home was safe and they had tocome and like certify it.
So it's for me, it's reallypositive here that this is
(12:33):
happening.
Now.
I also want to take a look at.
You sent over some stats thatfor me, were pretty startling
about when kids leave the fostercare system 40% were homeless,
40% were receiving publicassistance or were incarcerated,
40% experienced drug or alcoholabuse.
I mean, these numbers arestaggering and it just leads me
(12:59):
to wonder if you could possiblyshed some more insight on what
are some of the challenges thata kid coming out of foster care
faces, compared to a kid that'scoming out of the family
environment.
George (13:09):
Before maybe you answer that Kristen is maybe also add
to that in terms of what Bradsaid, is what burdens a system?
Why can't they deal better, youknow, with?
I mean, these are reallydifficult outcomes for a system
that hosts 400,000 kids to knowthat so many of these kids can
end up in harm's way.
(13:30):
So what's burgeoning the systemthat leads to what Brad asked?
Sure.
Kristen (13:36):
The staffing at the agencies that deliver those
social services.
That's down.
I don't know if that'scost-cutting measures or what
that is Like.
The custom programs or thejuvenile court system same thing
.
Staffing is an issue they alsohave.
You know, if there's that manypeople in the system, that many
(13:57):
families in the system, there'scourt dates that are multiple
court dates for each child.
And if you have I don't know 15000 students, like my county my
casa program supports, you know, like 200 children, individual
children, and in my mind I nowmultiply that times almost 90
(14:20):
for the state of Ohio, that'lljust give you those students
that have been or those childrenwho have been assigned a CASA.
That doesn't even include allthe ones that have been assigned
.
So if there's a volunteershortages at those county
offices, they don't even havesomebody that's specifically
advocating for the child, butrather attorneys who are
(14:41):
advocating for each party, sothat might be parents that are
divorced or separated and thechild's living with one.
So rather than hearing thelegal ease of an attorney, the
CASA or the juvenile courtsfamily juvenile courts system
then has a CASA that is makingthe I'm going to say my term
(15:07):
common sense recommendations forwhat's best for the child,
instead of arguing to beat oneside or the other.
So staffing at the state level,staffing at the county level,
staffing at the volunteer side,we give, even at CASA when we
raise money.
We're raising money to givethose volunteers gas cards so
(15:30):
that they can drive to go helpthese people.
I would never have thought that.
How do you come, how do youhelp somebody volunteer when
it's a could be a sizable chunkof their wages, especially when
you have a lot of retired peoplethat are the ones who serve in
that capacity.
So it really is.
(15:50):
I feel sorry for those kids.
It's from every direction oftheir life, it's.
It's there, is stuck in themiddle, maybe, of arguments, or
they know a lot of things thatthey shouldn't know.
They know offenses that theirparents have committed.
They they know that about moneyproblems and I just think
(16:13):
sometimes they hear things thatthey're not ready to hear or to
act on and somebody like avolunteer who's advocating for
them can draw the line and sayenough, they don't need to know.
That part my heart breaks.
It's just every direction forthem.
George (16:29):
It's really somewhat startling that when you or maybe
to a certain extent, difficultto absorb when you think about
that, there are many parents outthere looking to adopt, there's
many parents who are reallylooking to bring kids from China
or whatever country that theywant to go to, and then we have
400,000 kids.
Maybe some do get reunited withparents, many do not.
(16:53):
Many age out of the system andwe'll talk about that in a
minute.
A good chunk of them areminorities.
Do you, do you think thecurrent system works?
It just seems like majority ofthese kids are going to have an
unhappy ending.
Kristen (17:08):
I think it's a motivation piece too.
I know and have heard of Brad'smotivations to become a you
know, become a foster forrefugees.
I think that's absolutelywonderful.
But sometimes motivation forthose caregivers is financial,
not necessarily how they'readvocating or helping a child,
but rather how much money canthey get per child.
(17:30):
And then the trauma that thosekids face in a foster home.
Where someone's motivation isfinancial, then it compounds
because of other problems in thehousehold, even though they
have to.
I think, brad, you can probablyelaborate on this where they
have to meet certainrequirements to be a foster
parent, including beingcertified as a foster parent,
(17:52):
but not everybody continues tobehave in that fashion if they
have a financial motivation forit.
Brad (17:59):
Yeah, I I'm not sure of what it takes to be certified
outside of the refugee system,but I can attest that in the
refugee system, like we're goingthrough or we had to go through
, like income records, bankrecords, all of these things
Cause, yes, there is a financialsupport aspect that you get for
each child, but they're goingthrough and doing everything
(18:21):
they can to vet that.
That's not the reason whyyou're doing it.
And what was a positive is inour cohort some of the parents
were people who had come asrefugees, as children, and gone
through the same system, buteveryone was in it for the child
.
How can they help?
And the ultimate goal in therefugee foster care system is
(18:45):
reunification.
Like you're not bringing thischild to be your child, you're
bringing this child to care forit until mom and dad get through
the system.
George (18:52):
So if we, if we kind of take it so, when again you look
at the data, you see that fosterparents seems to be more happy
to have kids who are under fiveyears old.
Like 40% of kids in foster careare under five.
And it seems, as the kids getolder, foster parents seem to
either lose interest or maybeit's easier to make money
fostering kids who are youngversus as they get into their
(19:16):
teenage, teenage years.
And knowing that 70 percent ofthose who age out end up in some
form of encounter with the,with the justice system, what do
you think should be done on thetail end of the foster care
system in America, like, whatshould we do differently if we
cannot reunite the family?
(19:36):
You know, what should we dodifferently to make sure these
kids are not being bounced fromhome to home and when they age
out they have a college degree,they have a trade, trade, skill,
they have something to lean on,you know, versus going on going
to prison or spending time injail?
Kristen (19:57):
going to prison or spending time in jail.
There's a lot that we can dofrom a societal perspective.
All the way down to the averageJoe like you or I can do a lot,
and it does not have to besomething profound and of great
significance.
I'll start with just somesimple things.
But when I did that capstoneproject in the prisons, I found
them very interested inparticipating because it was a
(20:22):
reward so even in the prisonsystem for them to come and
participate in my project andthen the subsequent training
that followed.
They had to have good behaviorin order to be rewarded with the
time to go to class, have goodbehavior in order to be rewarded
with the time to go to class.
So recognizing that learning iskind of the you know, the
pillar of progress.
(20:43):
Really, once you're learning,you're preparing the way for a
different direction or a newdirection, and so I think that's
something that's really good.
I also can refer on a societallevel where we recognize that
there are things that we do thatwe take like I I'll speak for
myself take for granted, andthat is that I feel like I have
(21:06):
access to education and learningin all format and I love to do
it, so I am all the time seekingout opportunities.
However, many of those kidshave a really difficult time
just getting through high schooland don't graduate.
I want to say like close tohalf of them don't even graduate
from high school.
So that's heartbreaking andpart of the things that I saw.
(21:29):
In another situation I had ayoung man who was.
I worked with a young man whowas a junior in high school and
he was only reading at a firstgrade level.
So from a societal perspectivethe outcomes that perhaps that
we seek in high school he didnot benefit from that at all.
(21:50):
They just kept pushing him ormoving him through.
So you know, when I worked withhim, it was to get him at a
reading level where he couldbegin to apply for, fill out job
applications.
So it doesn't have to beanything big.
But I also gave that young manbooks to read that were at a
fourth grade level, so that hehad something to aspire to, so
(22:13):
that if he could read thosebooks he could fill out a job
application or read the paper orwhatever.
So those are some simple things.
There's also oodles of programsavailable like oh, what's it
called?
Job Corps?
Job Corps is a terrificopportunity for these young
adults who could have theopportunity to get some skill
(22:36):
building with some trades.
Many of them will qualify forfree lunches and SNAP benefits
if they're homeless or in thefoster system.
Three words with one stone herein our discussion, where
(22:56):
homelessness is rampant in theseaging out young adults,
learning is void, not finishinghigh school.
And I think then, as long asthe school system and our
country supports this um social,emotional skill building in the
(23:19):
school system which in ohiothey actually do have those in
their, you know, in their statetesting, they're required to
demonstrate learning that showsthat then they can begin to
build upon that.
But my, from kristin beal'sperspective, being the one adult
that cares enough to want towork with them, just one will
(23:41):
give them enough hope to keepgoing and then tell somebody
else what they experienced.
So I just recently had awonderful opportunity to teach
some life skill classes at atransitional housing facility
just for this age group.
Uh, young, old, older teens,young 20s and I taught crockpot
(24:05):
cooking.
They don't all know that.
So around that, that wholecurriculum that they are exposed
to when they're in thistransitional housing is to give
them skills to start their ownhome, with or without a foster
parent, with or without aguardian ad litem.
So budgeting, menu planning,transportation, getting your
(24:29):
driver's license, going to thedoctor, things that they just
are not exposed to.
George (24:36):
So if all these resources are available right,
they can get clinical help, theycan get mental health help,
they can get Job Corps.
They can get so many resourcesto try to get them through this,
why do you think they don'thave access to it?
Like, where is it that thesekids are not given every
opportunity, whether access toaccess to mental health or
(24:58):
access to Job Corps, or accessto support in high school?
Where are we off here?
Where do you think Are we offon the system side?
Are we off on the foster parentside?
And I know many of them arewonderful people who probably do
a great job, but somewherewe're missing the mark.
Kristen (25:14):
I think it's both the foster system and the foster
parents' knowledge orpreparation.
But I'll give you an examplewhere the collaboration made it
work and that was in that youngman I was telling you about that
read at a very low level.
His foster mom is who called meto ask for tutoring and she
(25:37):
connected me to his countyfoster, our children's services,
child and family services, andwhen I connected with him, I was
able to get him to pay for thelearning that he needed to get
this young man up in his readinglevel by you know, three or
four levels.
So the county actually paid forit.
(25:59):
But it really took somebodylike her to advocate for him and
to know what he needed.
And she was very tearful andshe was very scared when she
first talked to me.
But once she connected me tothe county office that could
help him and that county officesaw the advocacy and the kind of
(26:21):
championing that we had to dofor this young man, it all
seemed to work together.
And I know that's not theconstant, I know that's not the
real experience, I know that'san outlier.
However, I feel that if peoplewere more exposed, like
listening to a podcast like thiswhere they can find out how
they can share these things withpeople, like I can share things
(26:44):
with volunteers that will helpthem help kids.
I can share things with kidsthat can help them with or
without foster parents.
And I can share things like Idid with that county employee
who was he was just so excitedto finally have something that
could give that kid hope and itgave him hope to the county guy.
(27:05):
So it's it's just somebody thatwants to influence and somebody
that wants to advocate, thathas, I guess, like a big mouth
like me, but who really wants tofight for somebody to have
additional opportunities reallywants to fight for somebody to
have additional opportunities Tomaybe.
George (27:26):
To wrap up, kristen, we go back to the last thing you
said.
You know somebody that waswilling to fight for them.
You know it's not a topic thatreally catches on in the news,
it's not something that there isthis big, massive advocacy for
these kids.
They're literally again, Icalled this podcast the
Expendables, but they'reliterally invisible.
They're literally.
I again I called, I called thispodcast the expendables, but
they're literally invisible.
Uh, they're really not on ourradar and it wasn't on mine.
(27:46):
And I've known you for 20 years, uh, and I didn't even really
know that this is was you knowon your heart.
But so, like what?
What do we?
I mean, what do you think as asociety we have to do better to
bring these kids kind of frontand center.
Kristen (28:02):
I would say some faith-based organizations are
really inclined to fly that flagbecause it includes in their
ministries.
It can be a part of theirministries as well.
Then in schools, both in highered and in public schools, or so
secondary schools, perhaps inthe post-secondary schools,
(28:24):
having this discussion, maybe inI don't know I'm thinking maybe
at least discussing fundingthat might be available,
scholarships that might beavailable or to increase their
access to education or jobopportunities are amazing.
Like I saw a recommendation forsomeone that said they're
(28:47):
looking for foster kidsemployment, so they're hiring
managers, are posting jobs, butasking for these young people
that they can work with andnurture and hopefully then be
kind of joining together withtheir loyalties and then acting
as a mentor.
(29:07):
Somebody like me, someone likeyou doesn't have to be my age,
could be someone that's youngeror similarly, who was in the
foster system, who also canshare their experience.
Down to another one.
There are several trends, like Idid a Google search just for
(29:27):
transitional housing for youngadults, which can connect you
then to that agency thatadministers it, and that's how I
got connected.
To do the Crock-Pot cookingclass was through a county
agency who administers thefunding for that transitional
housing.
But you know, if it falls onyour heart, I think you're being
(29:50):
called to go act on it.
And when you go to act on ityou should find the place that
could act as a conduit to allowyou to to make that happen.
And for me it was just findingthe agency and the community
partners that I could.
I could kind of jump in, yeah.
George (30:10):
So, kristen, we're going to wrap up.
It would be really nice, whenBrad publishes this podcast,
that we can provide a couple oflinks that goes with it, that
can provide people informationon the foster kid system in
America where they can volunteeror maybe even just where they
can learn more.
I've learned a lot.
I've learned a lot inpreparation to talking to you
today.
I've learned a lot through whatyou sent me a couple of weeks
(30:33):
ago.
I truly appreciate your time,kristen, and it's really really
great to see you today, trulyappreciate your time, kristen,
and it's really, really great tosee you today.
Kristen (30:41):
Well, thank you very much, and you know, just to give
you an idea on how you canvolunteer, but we have every
year we do a teddy bear trot, a5K run for Friends of Casa, and
it's just a 5K.
But the money that we raisepays to train those volunteers
(31:05):
and to give them more learningopportunities so they can be
better, more supportive.
George (31:07):
But and then the remainder that's left to buy
teddy bears for the youngerfoster kids so that they have a
possession when they first getinto the system.
Okay, so is that in everycounty, or do I have to come and
stay with you to run?
Kristen (31:13):
for the five down.
Brad (31:14):
I'm happy to have you looks like we're going to ohio.
George, we're going to Ohio.
George (31:22):
It's a road trip to Christi.
Kristen (31:24):
I would like that, and you know what it really makes
you feel good, because when yousee that the volunteers are of
all ages, of course, but theyounger moms wheel their kids in
the stroller to go through the5K, the older people are walking
and then the middle ones arerunning and they're the ones
that are timing themselves andyou know all that kind of stuff.
(31:46):
So it's nice to see thatvariety of people interested in
fosters and abused and neglectedkids.
George (31:53):
Thank you so much, kristen, really appreciate your
time today.
Brad (32:17):
Thanks for listening to Make the Leap.
If you'd like to learn moreabout foster care, then please
visit our site, rosspodcastcom,and click on the links in the
episode description.
You can also visit our site orthe podcast platform of your
choice to listen to pastepisodes, as well as subscribe,
so you never miss futureepisodes.
We hope you join us two weeksfrom now for our next episode as
we dive into domestic violenceand, trying not to be a spoiler,
(32:40):
we will introduce the newestmember of our hosting team.
See you then, thank you.
Welcome to Make the Leap, a podcast focused on the many
economic hurdles facing collegestudents, lower income
individuals and those strivingto move up the social ladder.
I'm Brad.
George (00:33):
Constant.
Here is my fellow host, georgeGraham.
George, how are you today?
I am good, brad.
Thank you for the opportunityto get restarted.
We took a break as a result ofour move and now we're back,
ready to go.
Result of our move and nowwe're back, ready to go.
Today's topic is the invisiblechildren, or what I call the
expendable kids in foster care.
Almost 400,000 kids live infoster care in the US.
(00:55):
For the most part, they aretotally invisible, unless there
is a lawsuit or there's anaccident or some tragic event
that makes the media or hit thenews.
To be sure, many foster parentsare loving and supporting, but
being a foster child in Americameans something completely
different and, for the most part, sometimes painfully different.
(01:16):
So our guest today is Kristen.
Kristen works at Ross, but togive you a little bit more
background on Kristen, I willturn it over to Brad.
Brad (01:25):
Thanks, George.
Yeah, Kristen is the directorof training.
She designs and facilitatesengaging learning experiences
for Ross.
Her interest in foster carebegan when she was finishing her
master's in instructionaldesign.
Her capstone was focused oncreating units of instruction on
emotional skill building forfelony one and felony two
juvenile offenders in the stateof Ohio.
In the analysis phase of herproject she learned that nearly
(01:46):
all of the young men whovolunteered to participate in
her research project had beenmoved around in the state's
foster system.
Shortly thereafter, whileworking as a violence prevention
educator, she was a member ofDelaware Peace Collaborative and
here she began to see how, as asociety, we could do better for
our kids and their future.
Kristen is currently a boardmember for Friends of CASA,
which is Court Appointed SpecialAdvocates Program of Delaware
(02:09):
and Union Counties, whichrecruits, screens, trains and
supports community volunteers toadvocate in court for child
victims of abuse and neglect.
Kristen, thanks for joining ustoday.
Kristen (02:20):
Well hi, thank you for inviting me.
I'm very appreciative.
George (02:24):
So, kristen, I know Brad gave us a little bit of a
background, but you know, withover 400,000 kids and, depending
on what numbers you use,sometimes almost half a million
kids in foster care, how didthat get on your radar, even to
begin through your studies andyour work?
Kristen (02:39):
It really began, as Brad mentioned, when I began
working on my master's ininstructional design and I had
the really interestingexperience of working with 60
men 20 men at each of the threeOhio youth facilities where my
(02:59):
task was to work with afaith-based group that had a
prison ministry was to work witha faith-based group that had a
prison ministry and theirprogramming focused on
transitioning youth but totransition them from release
from prison to life.
And I first got interested init when we had to have the kids
fill out a survey questionnaireand the participants in the
(03:30):
survey were age 16 to 21.
And almost all of them had beenthrough the foster system.
So my eyes were really wideopen at that part because when I
began designing some socialemotional skill building, I
realized the piece that a caringadult, a parent, a foster,
gives to those kids at the frontend of their youth and these
kids might have missed or neverever had.
(03:52):
So my eyes were open then.
Brad (03:55):
So, kristen, that led you, as we mentioned, to the
Delaware Peace Collaborative andthen into CASA.
How does CASA support thefoster system?
Kristen (04:08):
and then into CASA.
How does CASA support thefoster system?
Oh, it's wonderful.
So I'll speak about the stateof Ohio, but not all counties.
There's 88 counties in Ohio andnot all of them have a CASA
office.
Some counties will share orcoordinate together their
assignments and they are managedor administered out of the
juvenile courts in each county.
So CASA itself, on a nationallevel was founded by a judge and
(04:34):
then now the judges in thesecounties are trained on how to
administer the CASA or GALGuardian Ad Litem programs,
administer the CASA or GALGuardian Ad Litem programs, and
they're designed then to appointsomebody who, a volunteer, who
works with an abused orneglected kid.
(04:54):
So it could be a kiddo likeyoung, it could be a kiddo
that's maybe in high school.
It could be somebody that's ina kinship situation where a
family member is caring for achild in the system, or it's a
true or working with a fosterfamily, and this volunteer goes
(05:23):
in front of the courts and inthe kid's life like teacher who
is the guardian right now?
At the time of that, the judges, the guidance counselor,
doctors, therapists, and they'llkind of tag team it and then
that volunteer will make arecommendation about what's in
(05:45):
the best interest of the child.
So when I first became familiarwith CASA, I was introduced to
the Fostering Futures program,which is then a fostering
experience for older teens, sokids that are getting close to
(06:06):
that transition age.
George (06:09):
So the transition age, Kristen, I'm assuming this is
the aging out.
Is that what you're referringto?
Kristen (06:14):
That's exactly right.
George (06:16):
Yeah, and I think that the age out in general is around
22 years old.
Right, when they have to exitthe foster care system, that's
right.
When you sent me your note onfoster kids, I have to admit I
knew very, very little, and sowhen I have to exit the foster
care system, that's right.
When you sent me your note onfoster kids, I have to admit I
knew very, very little, and sowhen I started to do some
homework and I always look at itfrom the eyes of our students
and from the areas that impactour students at Ross you know
(06:38):
the three elements.
You know that I'd like to touchbase on today, time allowing.
One is the issue of race, andI'm going to come back to that
for a little bit.
Two aging out and how many ofthese kids ultimately end up
having an encounter with thejustice system in some form or
another.
And then the third one is theeffort to try to keep families
(07:01):
together, and we'll probably tryto spend a little bit more time
on that if we can.
But I want to start with race.
So when I pulled the data, youknow one quarter of kids in
foster care are African-Americankids, when African-American
represents somewhere between 13to 14 percent of our population,
so you know they're definitelyoverrepresented in the foster
(07:25):
care system.
So in and I have my own theorybased on some of the stuff that
I've looked at, but maybe letyou talk about why our
minorities tend to be have abigger presence in terms of kids
in the foster care system inthe US.
Kristen (07:44):
I don't have additional statistics on this.
However, I could address thiswith a topic called adverse
childhood experiences, or ACEsas they call them, and I have
gone through lots of research,but I just don't have data right
now with me.
But the research talks abouthow frequently a child
(08:06):
experiences these adverseconditions or traumatic episodes
in their life and how itaffects the rest of their
childhood and then into theiradulthood, as well as their
health, income, potential,earning, potential, housing
access, all things like that,because of the how the child is
(08:29):
affected by ACEs.
George (08:31):
So, kristen, let me kind of break it another way.
So when I looked at why kidsend up in the foster care system
, it's like three big bucketsright.
One is neglect like three outof four end up there due to
neglect.
The other 25% is split betweenphysical abuse, sexual abuse,
abandonment and some otherissues in keeping families
(09:08):
together and trying to getfamilies to function as a family
unit, versus the foster systemthat is sometimes overburdened.
Foster parents tend to be dealwith burnout.
They're in and out of thesystem.
Kids are bouncing around.
So talk to me a little bitabout race and the quickness
sometimes to pull kids fromfamilies and what efforts
sometimes we need to that's aninteresting question.
Kristen (09:35):
I was actually looking at it this time when you asked
it, this time in a differentfashion.
So I was looking at thedemographics, perhaps, of the
county where I live and where Iwork with the CASA team.
So the demographics might evenbe different than in some of the
areas where or the countieswhere we have students, and so
(09:57):
my perspective might be skewedas well.
However, I know that nowadaysthe foster system is driven
towards unification and so theycreated this like a CASA group
out of the juvenile court as away to have a non-biased person
(10:17):
make all of these introductionsand conduct all these interviews
to determine what's best,instead of relying on the
kinship as a solution or relyingon a single parent solution,
but rather focusing on what wasbest for the child, but rather
focusing on what was best forthe child.
(10:38):
So, as a part of thecourt-ordered services, then if
a parent is trying to get theirchild back, they may be required
to complete certain assignmentsbefore they could get their
kids back and out of foster.
So if we're working forreunification, then we would
provide the services that theywould need in order to meet
those guidelines established bythe judge in juvenile court
(11:00):
family juvenile court?
So it might be.
Do you have employment?
Do you have housing?
Is it a safe place?
Have you taken parentingclasses?
And that CASA that I talkedabout earlier is also going to
have a part and a voice in eachone of those components too.
And it's as simple as the CASAwould be attending a supervised
(11:27):
visit with parent and fosterchild, their own child who's in
foster care, their own childwho's in foster care.
And so when we see all of thosecomponents that are required
for the judge to say here,here's the reunification process
at in action, um, that casawould be a part of each one of
those pieces.
So always towards reunification.
(11:50):
Sometimes casas are very, uh,stressed or disappointed in
whatever decision the the judgemight make about what's best for
the child, and so we kind ofwork in all of those pieces to
at least advocate for them ineach one, each category.
Brad (12:10):
So, kristen, hearing that, it actually brings me back to a
personal experience that mywife and I had.
We went through the wholeprocess of getting certified for
refugee foster care and it wasalmost step by step what you
just described.
We had to attend classes, thenwe had to make sure that our
home was safe and they had tocome and like certify it.
So it's for me, it's reallypositive here that this is
(12:33):
happening.
Now.
I also want to take a look at.
You sent over some stats thatfor me, were pretty startling
about when kids leave the fostercare system 40% were homeless,
40% were receiving publicassistance or were incarcerated,
40% experienced drug or alcoholabuse.
I mean, these numbers arestaggering and it just leads me
(12:59):
to wonder if you could possiblyshed some more insight on what
are some of the challenges thata kid coming out of foster care
faces, compared to a kid that'scoming out of the family
environment.
George (13:09):
Before maybe you answer that Kristen is maybe also add
to that in terms of what Bradsaid, is what burdens a system?
Why can't they deal better, youknow, with?
I mean, these are reallydifficult outcomes for a system
that hosts 400,000 kids to knowthat so many of these kids can
end up in harm's way.
(13:30):
So what's burgeoning the systemthat leads to what Brad asked?
Sure.
Kristen (13:36):
The staffing at the agencies that deliver those
social services.
That's down.
I don't know if that'scost-cutting measures or what
that is Like.
The custom programs or thejuvenile court system same thing
.
Staffing is an issue they alsohave.
You know, if there's that manypeople in the system, that many
(13:57):
families in the system, there'scourt dates that are multiple
court dates for each child.
And if you have I don't know 15000 students, like my county my
casa program supports, you know, like 200 children, individual
children, and in my mind I nowmultiply that times almost 90
(14:20):
for the state of Ohio, that'lljust give you those students
that have been or those childrenwho have been assigned a CASA.
That doesn't even include allthe ones that have been assigned
.
So if there's a volunteershortages at those county
offices, they don't even havesomebody that's specifically
advocating for the child, butrather attorneys who are
(14:41):
advocating for each party, sothat might be parents that are
divorced or separated and thechild's living with one.
So rather than hearing thelegal ease of an attorney, the
CASA or the juvenile courtsfamily juvenile courts system
then has a CASA that is makingthe I'm going to say my term
(15:07):
common sense recommendations forwhat's best for the child,
instead of arguing to beat oneside or the other.
So staffing at the state level,staffing at the county level,
staffing at the volunteer side,we give, even at CASA when we
raise money.
We're raising money to givethose volunteers gas cards so
(15:30):
that they can drive to go helpthese people.
I would never have thought that.
How do you come, how do youhelp somebody volunteer when
it's a could be a sizable chunkof their wages, especially when
you have a lot of retired peoplethat are the ones who serve in
that capacity.
So it really is.
(15:50):
I feel sorry for those kids.
It's from every direction oftheir life, it's.
It's there, is stuck in themiddle, maybe, of arguments, or
they know a lot of things thatthey shouldn't know.
They know offenses that theirparents have committed.
They they know that about moneyproblems and I just think
(16:13):
sometimes they hear things thatthey're not ready to hear or to
act on and somebody like avolunteer who's advocating for
them can draw the line and sayenough, they don't need to know.
That part my heart breaks.
It's just every direction forthem.
George (16:29):
It's really somewhat startling that when you or maybe
to a certain extent, difficultto absorb when you think about
that, there are many parents outthere looking to adopt, there's
many parents who are reallylooking to bring kids from China
or whatever country that theywant to go to, and then we have
400,000 kids.
Maybe some do get reunited withparents, many do not.
(16:53):
Many age out of the system andwe'll talk about that in a
minute.
A good chunk of them areminorities.
Do you, do you think thecurrent system works?
It just seems like majority ofthese kids are going to have an
unhappy ending.
Kristen (17:08):
I think it's a motivation piece too.
I know and have heard of Brad'smotivations to become a you
know, become a foster forrefugees.
I think that's absolutelywonderful.
But sometimes motivation forthose caregivers is financial,
not necessarily how they'readvocating or helping a child,
but rather how much money canthey get per child.
(17:30):
And then the trauma that thosekids face in a foster home.
Where someone's motivation isfinancial, then it compounds
because of other problems in thehousehold, even though they
have to.
I think, brad, you can probablyelaborate on this where they
have to meet certainrequirements to be a foster
parent, including beingcertified as a foster parent,
(17:52):
but not everybody continues tobehave in that fashion if they
have a financial motivation forit.
Brad (17:59):
Yeah, I I'm not sure of what it takes to be certified
outside of the refugee system,but I can attest that in the
refugee system, like we're goingthrough or we had to go through
, like income records, bankrecords, all of these things
Cause, yes, there is a financialsupport aspect that you get for
each child, but they're goingthrough and doing everything
(18:21):
they can to vet that.
That's not the reason whyyou're doing it.
And what was a positive is inour cohort some of the parents
were people who had come asrefugees, as children, and gone
through the same system, buteveryone was in it for the child
.
How can they help?
And the ultimate goal in therefugee foster care system is
(18:45):
reunification.
Like you're not bringing thischild to be your child, you're
bringing this child to care forit until mom and dad get through
the system.
George (18:52):
So if we, if we kind of take it so, when again you look
at the data, you see that fosterparents seems to be more happy
to have kids who are under fiveyears old.
Like 40% of kids in foster careare under five.
And it seems, as the kids getolder, foster parents seem to
either lose interest or maybeit's easier to make money
fostering kids who are youngversus as they get into their
(19:16):
teenage, teenage years.
And knowing that 70 percent ofthose who age out end up in some
form of encounter with the,with the justice system, what do
you think should be done on thetail end of the foster care
system in America, like, whatshould we do differently if we
cannot reunite the family?
(19:36):
You know, what should we dodifferently to make sure these
kids are not being bounced fromhome to home and when they age
out they have a college degree,they have a trade, trade, skill,
they have something to lean on,you know, versus going on going
to prison or spending time injail?
Kristen (19:57):
going to prison or spending time in jail.
There's a lot that we can dofrom a societal perspective.
All the way down to the averageJoe like you or I can do a lot,
and it does not have to besomething profound and of great
significance.
I'll start with just somesimple things.
But when I did that capstoneproject in the prisons, I found
them very interested inparticipating because it was a
(20:22):
reward so even in the prisonsystem for them to come and
participate in my project andthen the subsequent training
that followed.
They had to have good behaviorin order to be rewarded with the
time to go to class, have goodbehavior in order to be rewarded
with the time to go to class.
So recognizing that learning iskind of the you know, the
pillar of progress.
(20:43):
Really, once you're learning,you're preparing the way for a
different direction or a newdirection, and so I think that's
something that's really good.
I also can refer on a societallevel where we recognize that
there are things that we do thatwe take like I I'll speak for
myself take for granted, andthat is that I feel like I have
(21:06):
access to education and learningin all format and I love to do
it, so I am all the time seekingout opportunities.
However, many of those kidshave a really difficult time
just getting through high schooland don't graduate.
I want to say like close tohalf of them don't even graduate
from high school.
So that's heartbreaking andpart of the things that I saw.
(21:29):
In another situation I had ayoung man who was.
I worked with a young man whowas a junior in high school and
he was only reading at a firstgrade level.
So from a societal perspectivethe outcomes that perhaps that
we seek in high school he didnot benefit from that at all.
(21:50):
They just kept pushing him ormoving him through.
So you know, when I worked withhim, it was to get him at a
reading level where he couldbegin to apply for, fill out job
applications.
So it doesn't have to beanything big.
But I also gave that young manbooks to read that were at a
fourth grade level, so that hehad something to aspire to, so
(22:13):
that if he could read thosebooks he could fill out a job
application or read the paper orwhatever.
So those are some simple things.
There's also oodles of programsavailable like oh, what's it
called?
Job Corps?
Job Corps is a terrificopportunity for these young
adults who could have theopportunity to get some skill
(22:36):
building with some trades.
Many of them will qualify forfree lunches and SNAP benefits
if they're homeless or in thefoster system.
Three words with one stone herein our discussion, where
(22:56):
homelessness is rampant in theseaging out young adults,
learning is void, not finishinghigh school.
And I think then, as long asthe school system and our
country supports this um social,emotional skill building in the
(23:19):
school system which in ohiothey actually do have those in
their, you know, in their statetesting, they're required to
demonstrate learning that showsthat then they can begin to
build upon that.
But my, from kristin beal'sperspective, being the one adult
that cares enough to want towork with them, just one will
(23:41):
give them enough hope to keepgoing and then tell somebody
else what they experienced.
So I just recently had awonderful opportunity to teach
some life skill classes at atransitional housing facility
just for this age group.
Uh, young, old, older teens,young 20s and I taught crockpot
(24:05):
cooking.
They don't all know that.
So around that, that wholecurriculum that they are exposed
to when they're in thistransitional housing is to give
them skills to start their ownhome, with or without a foster
parent, with or without aguardian ad litem.
So budgeting, menu planning,transportation, getting your
(24:29):
driver's license, going to thedoctor, things that they just
are not exposed to.
George (24:36):
So if all these resources are available right,
they can get clinical help, theycan get mental health help,
they can get Job Corps.
They can get so many resourcesto try to get them through this,
why do you think they don'thave access to it?
Like, where is it that thesekids are not given every
opportunity, whether access toaccess to mental health or
(24:58):
access to Job Corps, or accessto support in high school?
Where are we off here?
Where do you think Are we offon the system side?
Are we off on the foster parentside?
And I know many of them arewonderful people who probably do
a great job, but somewherewe're missing the mark.
Kristen (25:14):
I think it's both the foster system and the foster
parents' knowledge orpreparation.
But I'll give you an examplewhere the collaboration made it
work and that was in that youngman I was telling you about that
read at a very low level.
His foster mom is who called meto ask for tutoring and she
(25:37):
connected me to his countyfoster, our children's services,
child and family services, andwhen I connected with him, I was
able to get him to pay for thelearning that he needed to get
this young man up in his readinglevel by you know, three or
four levels.
So the county actually paid forit.
(25:59):
But it really took somebodylike her to advocate for him and
to know what he needed.
And she was very tearful andshe was very scared when she
first talked to me.
But once she connected me tothe county office that could
help him and that county officesaw the advocacy and the kind of
(26:21):
championing that we had to dofor this young man, it all
seemed to work together.
And I know that's not theconstant, I know that's not the
real experience, I know that'san outlier.
However, I feel that if peoplewere more exposed, like
listening to a podcast like thiswhere they can find out how
they can share these things withpeople, like I can share things
(26:44):
with volunteers that will helpthem help kids.
I can share things with kidsthat can help them with or
without foster parents.
And I can share things like Idid with that county employee
who was he was just so excitedto finally have something that
could give that kid hope and itgave him hope to the county guy.
(27:05):
So it's it's just somebody thatwants to influence and somebody
that wants to advocate, thathas, I guess, like a big mouth
like me, but who really wants tofight for somebody to have
additional opportunities reallywants to fight for somebody to
have additional opportunities Tomaybe.
George (27:26):
To wrap up, kristen, we go back to the last thing you
said.
You know somebody that waswilling to fight for them.
You know it's not a topic thatreally catches on in the news,
it's not something that there isthis big, massive advocacy for
these kids.
They're literally again, Icalled this podcast the
Expendables, but they'reliterally invisible.
They're literally.
I again I called, I called thispodcast the expendables, but
they're literally invisible.
Uh, they're really not on ourradar and it wasn't on mine.
(27:46):
And I've known you for 20 years, uh, and I didn't even really
know that this is was you knowon your heart.
But so, like what?
What do we?
I mean, what do you think as asociety we have to do better to
bring these kids kind of frontand center.
Kristen (28:02):
I would say some faith-based organizations are
really inclined to fly that flagbecause it includes in their
ministries.
It can be a part of theirministries as well.
Then in schools, both in highered and in public schools, or so
secondary schools, perhaps inthe post-secondary schools,
(28:24):
having this discussion, maybe inI don't know I'm thinking maybe
at least discussing fundingthat might be available,
scholarships that might beavailable or to increase their
access to education or jobopportunities are amazing.
Like I saw a recommendation forsomeone that said they're
(28:47):
looking for foster kidsemployment, so they're hiring
managers, are posting jobs, butasking for these young people
that they can work with andnurture and hopefully then be
kind of joining together withtheir loyalties and then acting
as a mentor.
(29:07):
Somebody like me, someone likeyou doesn't have to be my age,
could be someone that's youngeror similarly, who was in the
foster system, who also canshare their experience.
Down to another one.
There are several trends, like Idid a Google search just for
(29:27):
transitional housing for youngadults, which can connect you
then to that agency thatadministers it, and that's how I
got connected.
To do the Crock-Pot cookingclass was through a county
agency who administers thefunding for that transitional
housing.
But you know, if it falls onyour heart, I think you're being
(29:50):
called to go act on it.
And when you go to act on ityou should find the place that
could act as a conduit to allowyou to to make that happen.
And for me it was just findingthe agency and the community
partners that I could.
I could kind of jump in, yeah.
George (30:10):
So, kristen, we're going to wrap up.
It would be really nice, whenBrad publishes this podcast,
that we can provide a couple oflinks that goes with it, that
can provide people informationon the foster kid system in
America where they can volunteeror maybe even just where they
can learn more.
I've learned a lot.
I've learned a lot inpreparation to talking to you
today.
I've learned a lot through whatyou sent me a couple of weeks
(30:33):
ago.
I truly appreciate your time,kristen, and it's really really
great to see you today, trulyappreciate your time, kristen,
and it's really, really great tosee you today.
Kristen (30:41):
Well, thank you very much, and you know, just to give
you an idea on how you canvolunteer, but we have every
year we do a teddy bear trot, a5K run for Friends of Casa, and
it's just a 5K.
But the money that we raisepays to train those volunteers
(31:05):
and to give them more learningopportunities so they can be
better, more supportive.
George (31:07):
But and then the remainder that's left to buy
teddy bears for the youngerfoster kids so that they have a
possession when they first getinto the system.
Okay, so is that in everycounty, or do I have to come and
stay with you to run?
Kristen (31:13):
for the five down.
Brad (31:14):
I'm happy to have you looks like we're going to ohio.
George, we're going to Ohio.
George (31:22):
It's a road trip to Christi.
Kristen (31:24):
I would like that, and you know what it really makes
you feel good, because when yousee that the volunteers are of
all ages, of course, but theyounger moms wheel their kids in
the stroller to go through the5K, the older people are walking
and then the middle ones arerunning and they're the ones
that are timing themselves andyou know all that kind of stuff.
(31:46):
So it's nice to see thatvariety of people interested in
fosters and abused and neglectedkids.
George (31:53):
Thank you so much, kristen, really appreciate your
time today.
Brad (32:17):
Thanks for listening to Make the Leap.
If you'd like to learn moreabout foster care, then please
visit our site, rosspodcastcom,and click on the links in the
episode description.
You can also visit our site orthe podcast platform of your
choice to listen to pastepisodes, as well as subscribe,
so you never miss futureepisodes.
We hope you join us two weeksfrom now for our next episode as
we dive into domestic violenceand, trying not to be a spoiler,
(32:40):
we will introduce the newestmember of our hosting team.
See you then, thank you.
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