September 19, 2023 • 51 mins
Welcome to Make Your Business Work for You! In this first episode, join your host Brooke Monaghan for a candid conversation with her business friend Audrey Holst. They'll discuss the origin of the show, how they are currently thinking about content creation, and why it is time to create space for more nuance and complexity in the business development space.
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Episode Transcript
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Audrey Holst (00:00):
And just kind of rolling with the punches Before
we even came on, I was dealingwith electronic issues, because
this week my cat threw up intomy modem and fried it.
[upbeat electronic beat]
Brooke Monaghan (00:16):
Song" Hi everybody, welcome to the first
episode of Make your BusinessWork For you.
If you do not know who I amalready which I'm assuming if
you're listening to this, atleast at the time of this
podcast launching you probablyknow a bit about me.
My name is Brooke Monaghan.
I am the host and the creatorof this podcast, and for the
past four years I have been abusiness and leadership coach
(00:39):
and in that time I havewitnessed many of the issues
that small business owners,especially lifestyle business
owners, people who are doingthis work because they wanna
have some flexibility in theirlife do meaningful work and just
like support the lifestyle thatthey want, but are not looking
to create some massive company.
And those four years of workingwith people in that position
(01:02):
have taught me so much about themost common obstacles that
people are bumping up against,but also what really needs to be
better.
And so I have kind of pivotedmy work and I am working on
creating a new platform calledFruition Growth Network, and I
wanna tell you a little bitabout it only because I
reference it a few times inthese first few episodes and I
(01:25):
want you to know what I'mtalking about.
So Fruition Growth Network isan online community learning and
networking platform that I'mcreating, but it's also a place
where I am connecting smallbusiness owners with other small
business owners who can supportthem.
So through the course of thispodcast, you're gonna hear me
talking to different smallbusiness owners who are experts
(01:46):
in certain areas or certainindustries, and they're gonna be
coming in and offering theirguidance to you in an accessible
format.
We are also gonna haveworkshops and all kinds of other
helpful resources available inthe Fruition Growth Network
community, and that is going tobe opening in October.
(02:08):
So if you wanna learn moreabout that, go to joinfruition.
com.
And this show is really a partof this platform, and here's why
.
One of the biggest things thatI see derail small business
owners is that, because of thisbest practice in content
(02:31):
creation or in being an onlineservice provider because one of
the best practices is to behyper specific and focused we
are losing a lot of context andwe are losing a lot of nuance.
The problem is that there is abunch of shit that does not get
talked about, and I want myniche, if you will, to be
(02:54):
context and nuance, which makesno sense and feels so messy, and
yet I am witnessing the needfor it day in and day out, and
so we're giving it a shot.
And here is why.
We need to talk about things ina more human way and demystify
this concept of simple, easybusiness that would be true for
(03:18):
you, too, if only you couldfigure out how to do it right,
or if only you were disciplinedenough or a good enough student.
Because the reality is thatthere is a lot more complexity
going on behind the scenes forpeople.
There is a lot more mess, thereare lots of competing
priorities for different people.
(03:38):
Different people come fromdifferent circumstances,
different people want differentthings, and the result of that
is that actually, despite thefact that we are learning from
an industry that's telling usthat running a business is
really simple if you just do itright, I have yet to witness
that, in all of the people thatI've worked with and also in my
own business.
So I want us to be able to seethe truth, so that we can first
(04:02):
of all, know that we're notalone and then also kind of
settle in a little bit.
Settle in a little bit to thereality, so that we can stop
trying to chase that simple,easy, the money is just easily
flowing because you have finallydone it right destination.
And I'm not saying that youcan't allow things to be simpler
(04:24):
for yourself or easier foryourself.
I actually think that you can.
But I think that the way ofdoing that is not what we have
been told.
It is not to chase a certainexternal strategy and then
discipline yourself into doingit the right way in hopes that
things come together.
So that's gonna make more senseas we go through these few
(04:48):
episodes.
But the point is, if you'refeeling like everyone has it
figured out except for you, Ipromise you that you're not
alone, and my hope is thatthrough the conversations that
we have in this show, you'regoing to first of all see that
and also get some helpfulguidance that brings in some
more context, some more nuanceand brings a more human approach
(05:12):
, understanding that you are notjust your business.
Now, the other thing is that Iwant to have a place where we
can offer guidance and supportin a really accessible format.
Some of us can afford to workwith a coach or work with
somebody a consultant or belongto a mastermind where we can go
(05:35):
and get answers to our questions.
Some of us cannot do that.
This is a place where you canactually send us questions,
scenarios, dilemmas, and I willpull from my network of people
and find people who are bestsuited to give some guidance on
that and we will record anepisode on it.
So take us up on that.
(05:56):
Go to joinfruition.
com, click on ask the pros,submit your questions.
Now, in these first threeepisodes of the show, you're
going to hear three verydifferent styles of episodes.
That's intentional, becausethere's going to be different
styles of episodes on this show.
This first conversation is acandid talk with my dear friend,
Audrey Holst.
We had no plan and, by the way,highly recommend you take
(06:18):
advantage and write in questionsfor Audrey.
Audrey works on recovering fromperfectionism and managing
stress.
The other two episodes thatyou're gonna hear one of them is
a Q and A style episode, so youwill -- That one's gonna be
much more straightforward.
Questions are gonna come up.
We're gonna answer them.
Those episodes are going tofocus on a particular topic so
(06:40):
you'll be able to see if it'ssomething that's gonna be
helpful for you or not.
We're also gonna be working ongetting the Q and As all up on
YouTube in video format and wewill also be archiving all of
them on the joinfruition.
com website so that you can goand search questions by topic.
We'll have much more of a bankof those as time goes by and get
(07:01):
expert guidance on differentquestions that people in the
community have asked.
And if there isn't anythingthere, then you can join the
community and ask your question.
And people who are part of thecommunity have the benefit of
being able to, first of all, geta guaranteed response to your
questions and also see the fullvideo conversation when it is
recorded, rather than having towait for it to come up on a
future podcast episode.
(07:23):
The third episode that droppedtoday and, if you're listening
to this later, I'm talking aboutthese first three because I'm
dropping three episodes for yourbinging pleasure today, but
there will be more coming weeklyafter this.
The third is a conversationwith somebody who I have so much
respect for, Tanya Geisler, aperson whose teaching has
honestly changed the way that Iapproach my work.
We're gonna be talking aboutimposter complex and feeling
(07:47):
like everybody has it figuredout except for you, so I hope
that you enjoy.
I can't wait to hear what youthink.
Please, please, leave me arating and a review on Apple
podcasts if you enjoythe show, it makes a huge
difference and head tojoinfruition.
com, get on our email list,follow us over on Instagram at
joinfruition so that you knowwhen doors are opening.
(08:07):
We are going to be welcomingpeople in October and kicking
things off with some greatevents, and I cannot wait to see
you there.
.
Yeah, you've become one of mygo-to.
I'm just gonna vox Audrey aboutthis and see what Audrey thinks
.
Audrey Holst (08:29):
[laughs], which I love, and I'm like I'm just
gonna vox Brooke about this andthen it's gonna take some weird
left turn and it's gonna besuper nourishing for everybody
involved.
Brooke Monaghan (08:47):
I've been podcasting for a long time and
I've always been very frustratedby like the kind of content
that is like we're gonna tellyou exactly how to do a thing
and then act like it's easy.
Just gonna act like it's realsimple.
All you have to do is this andignoring all of the other things
that are going on.
For most people who runbusinesses.
(09:07):
Like I don't know, having livesnot fucking wanting to do the
thing that you just told them iseasy to do, not having the
capacity to do the thing thatyou just told them is easy to do
, for whatever reason, nothaving a business where that
actually works for them,whatever.
And what I started thinkingabout was this new platform that
(09:30):
I'm putting together, how Icould create something that was
a part of that and that wentalong with it, Because
originally I was just going tochange the name of my old
podcast and just be like I'mjust going to change the name
and keep doing what I'm doing.
And then I was like, oh no,that's not actually what I want
to do, because what I actuallywant to do is I want people who
are part of that community spacethat I'm opening to be able to
(09:53):
ask questions and then be like Idon't know the answer to that
because, guess what, we don'tall know all of the answers,
which is another thing that Ican't stand about, like some of
the podcasts that I find myselflistening to and realize I was
doing myself, where it's likeyou put this pressure on
yourself to think that youshould know the answers to all
the questions and obviously youdon't, but I know so many people
who know the answers.
(10:14):
So why not?
People are looking for podcaststo be on and ways to get in
front of new audiences.
Why not, like, bring peopletogether, like, this person has
a question, this person has ananswer.
You can ask it, then I'll putit on the podcast.
Everyone benefits, but it'salso not just me talking just
for the sake of talking, andthat was kind of what sparked me
(10:35):
putting this together.
And, of course, the reason thatyou were even though we did
talk about how you were a lastminute substitution.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm sorry, but you were goingto be for the first episode
because I wanted to talk to youabout your stuff.
I wanted to talk to you aboutperfectionism.
You're going to have to comeback for that part.
[Audrey] I'll be back, yeah.
[Brooke] but one of the reasonsI wanted to chat with you about
(10:56):
it is because this is the stuffthat you and I are talking
about all the time.
I feel like yeah, where we'relike, yeah, like you're supposed
to just X, Y and Z, and alsolike what the fuck?
Audrey Holst (11:08):
Totally so.
One of the things I'm curiousabout like for drawing things
out for anybody who's listeningright now, or like what are some
of the themes that have beenpopping up for you that you're
excited to talk to people about?
Brooke Monaghan (11:18):
Well, see, this is the thing.
Good question, because I thinkthat what I'm realizing is I'm
at a phase now where I can dothings less because I'm excited
about them and more because Iknow that they're genuinely
helpful for people.
Which is like a new thing forme, because I started my
original podcast being like, oh,this is a thing that I want to
create and that I'm reallyexcited about.
I mean, I am really excitedabout this, but also, like I
(11:42):
genuinely am curious about, likewhat are the questions that you
wish someone was actuallyanswering?
And like I probably knowsomeone who can give you, who
could have a more nuancedconversation with me about your
specific situation, or who couldfill in some of those details
that you feel like you're notgetting.
And so, I mean, the theme ofall of it is this like we can
(12:07):
consume, how- to content all wewant, but at the end of the day,
you can't actually just knowall of the things to do and then
just run down the list and dothem all.
Audrey Holst (12:16):
Yeah, totally.
Brooke Monaghan (12:17):
So, like, what do you do then, given the
complexity of like real worldsituations where you have
multiple priorities?
Y ou know.
So anyways, I mean, yeah, Iguess that, going into this, I'm
like I'm excited to have mypeople here who I know are
really smart and know somethings like answer the questions
(12:42):
that people actually wantanswers to and do a lot less
talking just for the sake offucking creating content.
Audrey Holst (12:47):
Yeah, I feel like that is one of the that is, I
feel like that's a theme rightnow in my own life and I think
that's a theme that's kind ofcoming up in conversation is is
a feeling of creating content,because it's something you're
supposed to do or something thatis now expected, or something
that feels like a necessary partof business, and the term
(13:12):
creating content it means so.
It's such a vague overarchingterm and I think, with all the
conversations with AI, right,like that's like a whole other
story.
Like what are we actually like?
What is being created?
What are we actually talkingabout?
Are we, are we creating content?
I'm putting all these things inquotes because, yeah, what is
(13:32):
creating content actually like?
Is it?
Is it just stuff that you feellike you got to throw out into
the world because that's whatwe're supposed to be doing to
keep ourselves in front ofpeople?
Are we creating things becauseit actually is like you're
talking about answering aquestion that somebody has and
is looking for an answer tosomething.
Are we creating because we areexcited about something, just
(13:53):
like you were talking aboutpreviously?
Brooke Monaghan (13:56):
So, even when you said that back to me really
creating content I was like ugh,because it's become this
concept that it's so interesting, because it's almost like one
of those things where like, ifyou aim directly at creating
really great content, you're notgonna.
[Audrey] Yes.
[Brooke] Like if you'recreating content for the sake of
(14:16):
creating content, you'reactually not focusing on the
thing that you should befocusing on, which is creating
something beautiful, useful,helpful, whatever it is,
whatever your reason forcreating is, and then putting
that out there.
That is whatever it is thatyou're creating and sharing with
people.
That is content.
But we have forgotten aboutthat because we're so obsessed
with doing it the right way.
(14:39):
And the other thing in this isthis feels so relevant for
conversations that you and Ihave been having about your work
.
Yeah, because you just had this,like I mean, I don't know if
you want to talk about it here,but like you just also had this
kind of like epiphany aboutwriting your book in a totally
different way.
Yes, I'm like immediatelysensing this, like through line
(15:01):
between what I'm talking abouthere and and what's interesting
too.
And this is like so, man I'm soexcited now because it's such a
good indicator of the fact that, like doing this, doing what
both of us are doing right now,could lead you to two completely
different things.
Like I'm choosing to be, like Iwant to create a thing because
(15:22):
I like less, because I'm excitedto do it and more because I'm
witnessing people are lookingfor certain information, and I
know people who have it, and Icould bring those people
together and we could demystifythis whole idea that there's,
like this, one simple answerthat you're just missing or that
everyone has it figured outexcept for you.
For you, I think that you'realso completely flipping the
(15:43):
idea of creating content on itshead, but it's taking you to a
much different place, which is,like the point of why I want to
be talking about all of this.
Audrey Holst (15:55):
Yeah, yeah, and always full disclosure.
This is my process.
This does not have to be yourprocess, but if hearing about my
process is helpful, awesome.
If you think it's stupid,that's cool too.
So I have.
I've been writing a book forseveral years now.
I actually had a bookcompletely written.
It was in the second round ofedits and the my rough draft
(16:18):
happened right before thepandemic.
My first round of editshappened like right in the midst
of it and when and I steppedaway from it for a while because
I don't know, didn't seem likethe most important thing to be
doing at that time.
When I came back to it and Iwas reading through it, I'm like
this is not interesting to me.
This is centering all the wrongstuff.
(16:40):
It was centering what thethings that I was, and I think
this happens a lot of times to.
I know that you've talked aboutthis where we center the things
we don't want.
I'm not centering the oppressionor I'm centering the white
supremacy or I'm centering right?
I'm centering the things that Iam anti, yeah, but I'm actually
(17:00):
not bringing to the forefrontthe things that I want people to
be highlighting, payingattention to and spending more
time with Right.
And if we're talking about thenervous system which is a lot of
the stuff that I talk about andwrite about, is that's already
become a challenge.
Is that a lot of the folks Iwork with, a lot of the folks
that a lot of things I talkabout, we start centering the
stuff we don't want.
We put a lot of energy thereand we start orienting towards
(17:22):
those things.
Okay, well, if you're orientingtowards all the stuff you don't
want, how are you going to getto the stuff you do want?
Right, it's like what's yourNorth Star?
If you're staring at a blackhole over here, I'm like,
gesturing at different sides ofmy body, you can't see me.
If I'm just, you know, if I'mlike staring down the black hole
, how am I ever going to get tothe sun?
Like, I actually have to turnmy head, look at the sun and
(17:43):
start orienting that direction.
Brooke Monaghan (17:46):
I think that's what creativity is, by the way,
I think like, yeah, it's like nolonger focusing on all of the
things that are that you'reagainst or that are wrong or
that you want to fix, andfocusing on creating the thing
that you do.
Which is super fucking risky.
And scary.
Audrey Holst (18:11):
Y eah.
Totally.
And so I started writing itagain and it again started
centering.
I got through three quarters ofthe book second time around and
I was like and at that point Ihad done some like rearranging,
I had trashed a bunch of bunchof stuff I've kind of like
trashed and burned and then likerewritten, sort of mashed back
together this book in severaldifferent ways.
(18:32):
And again I was like, why am Italking about this?
There's a lot of talk aboutwork, there's a lot of talk
about business and, to be honest, that's not the thing, that's
not the conversation I want tohave.
Like these things are part ofpeople's lives and they're part
of they're big parts of people'slives, but that's, that's not.
Again, it's not what I want tocenter.
I don't want to be centeringbusiness or work.
I don't think it's.
(18:52):
The important thing is tocenter.
So here we go, slash and burn.
Here it goes again and I juststarted thinking about, like
what is the book that I want tomake?
Like what's the experience Iwant to have
making this book?
And I think that's becausethat's a part of the process
right is like being able toenjoy the process, and there's
(19:14):
plenty of people who write booksbecause they want to, you know
they have a particular objectivefor it.
Right, it's marketing or it'swhatever.
But I don't.
That's not my, that's not myobjective.
Like originally it was kind oflike that, but at this point I'm
like that's not really what Icare about.
And I actually had a reallyinteresting conversation with a
woman by the name of ElizabethWatkins Price and she is, she
(19:37):
just wrote a book and wastelling me about her process and
she was getting super jazzed.
It's really fun to talk to likeother writers who get it like
it's very, very exciting.
And she was talking abouthaving done something similar
where she was like I wanted totalk about it, like I wanted to
write, I wanted to like becomethe person to write the book
that I wanted to write and itwas like a lot of memoir.
(19:59):
But like the memoir was sovulnerable and raw that it ended
up being like wrapped in a lotof my practices, which actually
felt like a really compassionatething to do, and like even me
talking about it right now andand like she can talk about it
obviously way more, way betterthan I just did, but it like
gave me chills.
Like that's the process.
Yes, like you go through thejourney, like the writing itself
(20:22):
does something to you andbrings you to a place, and then
you figure out how to wrap thatin something that like does
something for you and then itdoes something for somebody else
and like that's the whole thing.
It's like if you're notcreating for yourself or for
somebody else or in relationship, it's just like what are we
doing?
Are we really just likethrowing stuff against a wall
(20:44):
because we've been told to throwsomething against the wall?
So that's the very not linearprocess.
So that's where I am now, andI've got a.
I've got a bunch of stickynotes, I've got all sorts of
stuff up and one of the one ofthe parts of the book that one
of the sticky notes is actuallyabout what we've been talking to
(21:05):
a little bit here is likeconcept versus reality, like us
relating to a concept versuslike relating to what's here.
Yeah, there's something aboutrelating to like what's here
versus just like this right,this concept of creating content
.
When I say creating content, Ihave no relationship to that
term.
[Brooke] The cat has joined theconversation.
I will.
Yeah, when [Audrey] Everybodygo into YouTube and the cat has
(21:27):
has entered the chat.
Brooke Monaghan (21:29):
Yeah, what's the.
What's the cat's name?
I forget.
I feel terrible.
What's the name?
[Audrey] Sweet Pea [Brooke]Sweet Pea, of course, duh.
I just thought Sweet Pea wasabout to like turn their little
head and like talk into themicrophone, just like perfect.
Audrey Holst (21:41):
It may happen.
Brooke Monaghan (21:44):
Yeah, it's like this whole like okay, well, if
we're not doing something thatlike does something for us or
does something for other people,we're not creating a thing
that's like for you know, for us, or in that process, then what
are we doing?
It's like what we're doing iswe're trying to figure out how
to do the thing that has beenpromised to deliver all of the
money.
(22:04):
I think is it's like there'sthis promise that if you do all
of the stuff the right way andyou just create content in this
way and whatever, then it'sgoing to work, and work usually
means make money.
But what I see is that likepeople are aiming for that when
that's not actually the reasonwhy they're even here.
(22:27):
Like not to say that we don'twant to make money of course we
do, but really like you couldjust go and get a job if that's
what you wanted to do andsometimes people decide to do
that and that's great and alsolike, if that doesn't feel
satisfying to you, then thereason that doesn't feel
(22:49):
satisfying to you is becauseactually you're here for a
different reason and part ofwhat I'm, like you know,
constantly wrestling I feel likeconstantly wrestling with.
I feel like is this like making,just making money is actually
not that hard of a problem tosolve.
I mean, it is for some people,of course, and in certain
(23:13):
circumstances, obviously, butwhat's the hard part problem to
solve is figuring out how to dowhat you actually want to do,
create the thing that youactually want to create, fit
that in with what you want yourlife to look like and figure out
how to make it, make you money,which is a much different thing
(23:35):
from just going down thefucking checklist of all the
shit that you're supposed to do,and I feel like no one's giving
themselves enough credit forthat.
Audrey Holst (23:43):
Like, totally yeah .
And so, like the metaphor thatjust popped into my mind, it's
like if you were to write achecklist on how to grow a plant
.
Right, it's like you get thedirt, you plant the seeds, you
water the seeds, you you know,you give it sunlight, whatever.
But here's the thing Weatherhappens right.
(24:07):
Weather is unpredictable.
You may get the right weather,you may get the wrong weather.
You don't really know.
Are you growing it inside oryou're growing it outside?
Like, are there animals thatmay come and eat those?
Right, there are.
It's like there are so manycircumstances and and factors
that play into a process that,like none of these checklists,
happen in a vacuum.
Brooke Monaghan (24:27):
Right.
Exactly, exactly.
Business doesn't happen in avacuum.
Business happens because peoplerun businesses and human beings
turns out are kind of fuckingcomplex.
Audrey Holst (24:42):
Living in a kind of complex world and a little
bit, just a little bit.
Brooke Monaghan (24:47):
So I'm just like endlessly fascinated by and
I mean, it makes sense, right,because we're all drawn to this
idea of things just being simple.
So, and this is the other thing,too, that I always try to like
remind myself of is like, ratherthan just being angry about the
kinds of conversations that areout there, the kinds of content
that is out there, the kinds ofthe ways that we're being told
to approach a certain thing,remembering that the reason that
(25:10):
that exists is because, on theother side of things, we're all
out here looking for the easyanswer.
Like we're all out here lookingfor the simple just give me the
answer, just get to the point,kind of thing, and so that it,
you know, it's a, it's a trickything, yeah, but I think that
part of what I'm kind of craving, I guess, is almost this, like
(25:35):
this exposing like what is trueand real here, which is that
there's such an illusion of likethere's people who know how to
do things and who haveeverything figured out and
everything, and for those people, things are just simple and
(25:56):
easy and what, and they know howto do the right things, and you
are somehow broken, flawed,fucked up because, despite the
fact that you're consuming allof the stuff that those people
are putting out there, it's notworking for you, but it's
working for everybody else.
And I'm just like but is it, oris it just like but is it?
Audrey Holst (26:21):
That's the thing, right?
I think that, and I think thething is, like, what we need to
say is some people are makingmoney, some people are not
making money.
Some people are putting up thefront that they're making money,
but they're not making money.
Some people have jobs, somepeople don't have jobs, some
people have spouses orsignificant others, some people
have other sources of income.
Right, like there are so manythings happening in the
(26:42):
background and it is and nobodytalks about those things which
is like both fine, but then alsovery difficult for people who
are trying to understand.
Like, because that's one of thethings we do as humans, right,
as we look around at each otherand say, like am I where I'm
supposed to be?
Am I in the right group ofpeople?
Like, am I doing the rightthings?
Like, am I in the right stage?
(27:03):
Like, what's going on?
And because there are a lot ofthese conversations that are not
happening, we don't know.
Brooke Monaghan (27:09):
Like we just don't know.
Yeah, yeah, and I was having aconversation with somebody this
morning.
I asked this group, what'ssomething that you want to learn
more about?
And somebody said I just wantto know what to do.
Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh,first of all, me too.
(27:32):
All of us.
Audrey Holst (27:35):
Same.
Brooke Monaghan (27:36):
This is what we're all looking for, and also,
what that really is is a callfor self-trust, because the idea
that there is a what to do isthe whole fucking thing.
And like what I and I feel likepeople might be listening to
this and be like, okay, great,except, like you know, just
trusting myself isn't going tolike get me out of this
(27:58):
situation.
Well, actually I think it would.
I actually think that it would,because, like the, it's like
when you are looking for peopleto tell you how to do the thing,
all the time and when, andespecially when you're looking
to this kind of content thatwe're talking about.
This whole conversation hasended up centering around this
(28:18):
sort of content but [Audrey]It's like how to?
How to do content.
[Brooke] That kind of yeahwhich, by the way, the next
episode of this podcast is goingto be very Q&A and you're just
getting answers.
So I mean, you know, but it'sgoing to be to like specific
questions, and I hope thatthere's some nuance in there
that allows you to take what'shelpful and leave what isn't.
but it's like look, constantlylooking for the give me the
(28:46):
answer.
Constantly looking for theright person who's going to
finally give you the thingthat's going to help you move
the needle.
Constantly looking for themissing piece of information is
kind of just distracting youfrom what you are actually here
to create, or your own uniqueideas or your own perspective on
(29:07):
a thing, or how you could dothings differently.
And I think that we are also ina kind of like it's really
frustrating where we're at rightnow because it's yeah, I think
I'm talking to I am talking to alot of people who are saying
things that used to work aren'tworking the way that they used
to anymore.
Yes, which is really reallyfrustrating.
And also that means you get todo whatever the fuck you want,
(29:29):
because if the right way isn'tworking anyways, then maybe
change it up and start running afucking experiment and try
something else.
Because, like, I mean, what doyou have to lose?
Right, you know?
And that's where the actualcreativity comes in and that's
where you can actually likeapproach things differently and
that's where you actually havethe space to say, okay, this is
what I want this to look like,or this is what I want to create
(29:51):
for other people, or the changethat I want to make, or the
impact that I want to have, orthe thing that I want to set
straight I'm going to approachthis from a place of self trust
and creativity, that I can bringthat to life, and also approach
the money making piece from aplace of creativity, rather than
just trying to follow the rulesbecause, I mean, I don't know.
(30:13):
I just I have learned thislesson over and over again.
Literally every single timethat I ever find something where
I'm like, aha, this is it, thisis going to be the thing that
is finally going to changeeverything and finally, like the
money is going to start flowingin and everything's going to be
easy, I'm like oh right, andyet again, it's actually more
complicated than that.
(30:34):
Great.
I actually have to be morecreative than that.
I actually have to make it workfor my unique circumstances.
I actually have to, like tapinto what I think, or put my own
spin on the thing, or take onepart of it that works and like
to completely forget all therest of it, because the rest of
it is distracting me like, and Ijust so badly want to like stop
(31:01):
this pattern that I see so manypeople get sucked into, where
you're just on the search forthat thing that's going to, like
you know, finally make it allmake sense.
Audrey Holst (31:11):
I've seen the other side, right like I've
worked with folks who havereally successful businesses,
like financially successful, andlike they've hit, they've
checked off all the things right, and so they've checked all
things and I don't you know for,for disclosure, people don't
know like I don't, I'm not abusiness coach, right like I do
a lot of coaching aroundperfectionism and stress and
(31:34):
anxiety and that [Brooke] turnsout lots of us business owners
struggle with those things.
[Audrey] Turns out.
You know that there's a lot ofthat going on in this world.
Brooke Monaghan (31:42):
Wait, entrepreneurs need your help.
I don't know why they wouldever need that.
Audrey Holst (31:49):
So, like I've, I've seen, right, I work with a
lot of the people who arebecause, you know, also spoiler
alert people often don't hire meuntil they've got the funds to
be like, okay, like I actuallyfeel like I can now hire the
person that can help me and that, like you know, stress
emotional sort of nervous systemside, which is totally fair.
Right, you're trying to makewise investments when you're
(32:10):
getting things going.
But, yeah, I end up with thepeople who are and I don't just
work with entrepreneurs, likeI'm also working with people
with with regular jobs but a lotof the people who've checked
all the checkboxes right,they've got the stable income,
they've got the business that'sworking, they do know what
levers to pull and they're notand guess what like nothing
(32:31):
magically happened.
It's not like all of thosethings happen and all of a
sudden they're like, yay, now Ican kick back and relax.
No, because they have no ideahow to not do anything other
than just like sprint on thehamster wheel as fast as
possible.
Brooke Monaghan (32:44):
Yep.
And, by the way, for everybodywho's looking at those people
from the outside thinking, oh mygosh, those people just have it
all together.
They figured it out, they justhave it on autopilot.
Everything's probably runninglike a well oiled machine over
there.
All they have to do is justwake up and just stroll into
their probably beautiful officeand, just you know, like breeze
(33:06):
through their day.
I think that both of us canconfirm that that is not what's
going on.
Audrey Holst (33:15):
It's not what's going on.
It's not what's going on,unless people have really done
some like deep inquiry andthey're certain, and they've
been like confronting thatconcept, like they're throughout
the entire, the entire build,and I think that that's the
that's kind of the rub is thatthere is not a finish line.
You're not going to get to apoint where, all of a sudden,
you're like the heavens open upand the angels come down and all
(33:39):
the money flows and you're likeI'm done now and I feel great,
like there's a lot more.
There just continues to becomplexity and things that
happen and things that areinteresting, and I guess it, and
if you're not, I guess thequestion, I guess that what I
want to say is if, like, ifthat's the vision you have, then
the reality is going to be likea harsh slap in the face.
Brooke Monaghan (34:01):
Yeah, and I think that a lot of people are
continuing to be like Wait, thisis my reality, so that means
there's something wrong with me,Or this is my reality, and so
that means that I'm doingsomething wrong, or this is my
reality, and so I must not be ascapable as I thought I was
Right.
Instead of this is your reality.
(34:22):
These are the things that youknow that you want to be
different.
Is it possible to like have alittle bit of acceptance of what
reality is right now?
Give yourself a little bit ofthose things that you want to be
different, actually live yourfucking life and like know, that
, whatever it is, like you'regoing to have to keep showing up
to this and it is going to bework and it is going to be
(34:43):
challenging.
And so how can you like set itup in a way where you can like
at least show up to it day inand day out, in a way that
doesn't feel like a total, justlike you're getting the shit
beat out of you every day?
And I think that, like we haveto, we have to recognize that so
much of the industry that youknow you're not a business coach
(35:05):
but, surprise, you're on abusiness podcast, so you're in
the business developmentindustry with me right now.
So much of this industrythrives on the blue sky promises
.
It thrives on the it runsbecause of the fact that people
are convinced that they're goingto hit some sort of finish line
(35:28):
.
Right, yep, and it's re, it'sreinforced at the top of every
sales page that you see.
Yep, like what if things get tobe like this and you finally
get to blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right, and I'll be honest withyou, as I was thinking about
being even more explicit, aboutbreaking that down, I was
thinking well, okay then wheredoes that leave people?
(35:48):
And am I doing?
Am I being dumb by being like,actually, like, that's not
because where does that leave me?
Do I have something to offer?
If I'm not hooking people onsome kind of blue sky, like
promise of, like everything getsto be different and ultimately,
it's like what I kind of comeback around to is, like I know
(36:12):
for a fact that if I'm, if I'mwitnessing that and I can see it
so clearly any fear that I havethe position that it would put
me in to no longer participatein it, if I can manage to set
that aside and just focus oncreating something better, I'm
going to be fucking fine.
I'm gonna be fine, and thereason I know that I'm going to
(36:35):
be fine is because we sodesperately need something
better.
There's just no way that, if Ireally focus my energy on
creating something thatapproaches things differently
and gives people a different wayof looking at things, I just
can't, I'm not willing to acceptthat that would somehow fuck me
(36:56):
over in any way, because I lookaround and I see the people who
need it and I'm like I mean,this is what this is like, what
this is my whole fucking job.
My whole job is to witness whatpeople need and try to create a
solution for it.
And so, anyways, all of this tosay it's like I think that this
kind of brings us back aroundto where we started this
(37:17):
conversation, which is like wehave all of these things that
are pulling us back to like, no,do do things this way, don't
trust yourself in your owncreativity, don't have the real
conversation.
Don't write something just towrite it.
Don't write something just toconnect with people or offer a
different perspective.
Write a thing because it'smarketing.
Do a thing because it's in anindustry where you can make
(37:38):
money.
Do a thing because it's smartand strategic and whatever for
your business and that,ultimately, I think that we're
just at this point right nowwhere look around and look at
all of the things that you'reseeing around you and ask
yourself how helpful it feelslike it is to you and ask
yourself if you want to be oneof those people or if you want
to be the person who's daring todo things a bit differently and
(38:00):
creating to actually createsomething better and more
beautiful and whatever.
And like I don't know wherethat leaves us, like I don't
know I can't make a guaranteethat that money is going to flow
from that because, to be honest, that's some straight fucking
bullshit too.
That's like the whole what likethe prosperity gospel of like
(38:20):
fucking money goes to people whoare like doing things the right
way and our good people andwhatever.
Audrey Holst (38:27):
If you really want to make a perfectionist totally
lose their mind, just go downthat rabbit hole.
Brooke Monaghan (38:32):
Right.
So we can't make thoseguarantees, but what I can tell
you is that I don't know atleast the thing that you said
you wanted to do when youdecided to do the work that you
chose to do like, which I'massuming was do something
meaningful and something thatmatters to you and feel like
you're having an impact onpeople and actually enjoy your
work and have some sense ofcreative control and freedom.
(38:55):
You could have that, and I mean, if the things that you're
trying that are supposedly goingto make you money are not
making you money anyway, I don'tknow.
Maybe we give it a shot, likethat's my whole thing is.
I'm like I'm not guaranteeingyou that any of the stuff is
going to work, but I can tellyou that if you're not willing
to even try it, you're going tohave a damn hard time of, like
(39:17):
you know, getting where you wantto go.
Audrey Holst (39:20):
Yeah, and I think it's the thing that keeps coming
up for me around.
This conversation is just justlike getting real with what your
risk tolerance is.
Yes, because I and I think thatthat's a real, that is such a.
That's just like such a realconversation right there.
(39:41):
When I say risk tolerance, thatcovers a lot of bases Like what
is your financial risktolerance right?
Because people are going tohave all sorts of different
numbers.
They're going to have all sortsof different histories.
Again, they're going to haveall sorts of different income
streams, or maybe they don'thave all sorts of income streams
.
Maybe they have savings, maybethey don't have savings, maybe
they have, you know, investors,maybe they don't.
(40:02):
There's that's going to lookvery different.
What are people is likeemotional risk tolerances
because, listen, this is notthis.
This shit is not easy,especially if you're in the
public eye.
Depending also, depending onwhat you're interested in
creating, what you're interestedin saying, how um fired up,
that's going to get people right.
That can create a certainamount of, you know, social risk
(40:23):
perhaps for people.
These are all things that arereal right.
They're, all sorts of thingsthat are real.
You know, when there's that kindof conversations around like
taking up space and being loudand all of that sort of stuff,
yes, and they, everything stillcomes with a consequence, like I
think that that's the piecethat I want to be really
(40:45):
explicit about, because there isa lot of blue sky and there is
a lot of, you know, sort ofpositive psychology, but I'm
like, okay, and these again, areconcepts and we also live in
like a reality and there is likethere there are consequences to
our actions.
Right, there are consequences toour actions, and so not
(41:07):
everybody is going to receive usin a in a wonderful way and
some people receive us poorly,and that's going to be like,
what is people's tolerances forthat sort of thing?
Because I think that's like, Ithink that's totally real, I
think it's worth worth thinkingabout that, and people's
willingness to be brave and trystuff out and be experimental
and like stick their toes in thewater and check things out and
(41:28):
see how it goes.
Like that's how change getscreated too, where new ideas
come about.
Like nothing new ever gotcreated, nothing, nothing ever
got shifted, because people werelike
Brooke Monaghan (41:37):
What's the way you're supposed to do this again
?
Let me follow the instructions.
You know on that same point ofrisk tolerance, one of the
things that I think about allthe time is like am I willing to
?
There are certain things that Ihave considered doing or trying
or have done in the past becauseof the fact that there's a
(41:58):
promise attached to it that,like this is what everyone says
you have to do, this is whateveryone says works works, and
so you know what being being inbusiness means you have to make
money.
That's the definition of beingin business, so I'm willing to
do it, and what I started askingmyself more and more is like am
I willing to take the risk ofthat not working because it's
(42:21):
going to suck.
And sometimes the answer is yes, I am, but I think that we,
like I think I've had to getmyself more used to rather than
going into, because what I woulddo before is I would ask myself
that question if it was my idea.
So I want to try this.
Well, am I really willing torisk that potentially not
(42:44):
working because it might notwork?
But then a "tried quote,unquote best practice you know
would be presented to me and Iwould never ask myself that
question.
Audrey Holst (42:53):
[Brooke] I would just think, okay, I have to do
that because that's the thingthat works.
[Audrey] Ohhh, interesting.
[Brooke] And if it doesn't work, it just means that I'm not
doing it enough.
Brooke Monaghan (42:59):
I'm not doing it.
I'm not doing it right orwhatever right, but I never was
asking myself, and actuallythere's a risk of that not
working too, and am I willing totry that if it potentially
isn't going to work?
I would only ask myself thatwith my ideas.
Audrey Holst (43:14):
Am I willing to risk it?
Am I willing to put my right?
Brooke Monaghan (43:21):
Yeah, and so it's just interesting to now
notice, like, where I perceiveall of the risk is, and like I
perceive other people's ideas asa sure thing.
And I perceive my ideas asrisky.
And it's not true.
How many times do I need tohave that proven to me?
How many fucking times does itneed to become just so obvious,
(43:44):
through real, real worldexperience, that that is not how
the world works, it is not howthis works.
[Audrey] Yes.
[Brooke] And yet here I amconvincing myself that every
idea that I have as a risk andevery idea that everybody else
has is just a sure thing, thatif only I was just a good enough
fucking student that I couldjust do it right and just be
disciplined enough.
Audrey Holst (44:04):
And that's the, that's the thing.
I'm with you in that camp, I'mtotally with you in that camp is
that if I'm a good enoughstudent of whatever philosophy
or whatever practice, then it'sgoing to work.
Right, because obviouslyeverybody else seems to be doing
it just fine.
It seems to be working for them.
But like if I come up withsomething then it's brand new
(44:26):
and it's never been tested andlike it's risky and all.
Yeah, I mean that's again.
I think we're talking aboutthat discernment.
[Brooke] Yeah, right.
[Audrey] Is figuring out, ismaybe putting the question mark
right above everything.
Brooke Monaghan (44:41):
Yeah, on that note of the you know everybody
else's whatever.
I just thought it would be, youknow, helpful to throw out
there in case anyone doesn'tknow this.
Most businesses lose money.
I don't know if anyone's awareof that, you know, because I
feel like we have this right.
Audrey Holst (44:58):
The destination business is making money, but
businesses lose a lot of it.
Brooke Monaghan (45:02):
Yes, like if you're not losing money, if you
are not pouring money in andactually losing money, you are
actually performing better thana lot of very large businesses
out there.
I like not sure if you're aware, you know, and I don't think
that we were not, because we'renot told that, like, the image
(45:26):
that we have is that, like,everyone has figured out how to
do it except for us, and it'sjust not true.
It's like I think it's like Ithink it's around 60% of
businesses are not making money.
I was listening to the podcastwhat's it called the Dropout,
(45:47):
which was the podcast aboutElizabeth Holmes and Theranos.
Oh, yes, and then they did aseries while she was on trial.
Audrey Holst (45:56):
Yeah.
Brooke Monaghan (45:56):
For people who are listening, who are not
familiar with the story, whichyou probably are familiar with
the story, Elizabeth Holmes wasa CEO of a very large medical
technology company thatbasically the entire thing was
just smoke and mirrors and shewas just conning people into
giving her huge amounts of moneyfor investments and couldn't do
any of the things that she saidthis business could do.
(46:18):
And I was listening to it and Iwas just thinking about the
hundreds of millions of dollarsthat this woman got these people
to give her.
This company was operating fora decade and I'm listening to it
and I'm like you know what'scool?
My business makes more moneythan Theranos ever made.
(46:39):
That's cool.
But this is the thing that Idon't think we realize, or we
don't.
We think about people.
We put other people on thiskind of like.
We think about their story istotally different, where it's
like these huge companies thatare legit and whatever, and we
don't know how to do that andactually like I don't understand
(47:02):
that really the idea thateveryone has it figured out
except for you is not onlybullshit, but like you can be an
operational business that is amulti-million dollar business
and actually be losing money,and so where does that leave us
then?
Because, like, if the goal isno longer to have the six-figure
(47:26):
business, or have theseven-figure business or the
whatever, then what the fuck isthe goal?
Okay, then how about we comeback?
Audrey Holst (47:32):
to that.
Yeah, yeah, let's back it upabout 50 million steps.
Brooke Monaghan (47:36):
It just blows my mind because I'm like, wow,
we're so confused.
Audrey Holst (47:40):
Yeah, and why wouldn't we be Exactly?
Brooke Monaghan (47:43):
We're confused because of the kinds of
conversations that are being hadin, you know, and,
unfortunately, in the placeswhere we're going to look for
help, where we're going to seeksome sort of help me, help me
see that I'm not as alone, giveme some kind of answer to move
me forward and I just feel likein a lot of those places where
(48:03):
we're looking for that, we'regetting something that's
actually sucking us further intothis spiral and distracting us
more from what we actually wantto create.
And for most business ownersmost business owners want to
have a good fucking time.
That's what I've realized.
Most business owners decided togo into business for themselves
because they wanted to have aflexible fucking schedule.
(48:25):
That's what most people decidedwanted when they decided to go
into business for themselves.
They wanted, like, to be ableto choose when they work, to
have some sort of like creativecontrol over their work, to do
something meaningful, maybeexpress their creativity.
And I just am like, okay, let'scome back to that and the
reality of that, because youtake a few steps in to figure
(48:46):
out how to make it happen.
And the next thing, you know,it's like so many of us have
lost sight of all the reasonswhy we even came here and are
now sucked into this machine oflike this is how you do business
.
That recreates all the thingsthat we hated about our jobs.
Audrey Holst (49:01):
Yeah, yeah, it just becomes more business as
usual, but with just a differentface on it.
Brooke Monaghan (49:07):
I don't know.
I hope that we can havedifferent kinds of conversations
here, and probably we're gonnaoften miss the mark.
That's fine too.
We're gonna figure it outtogether, but at least there
will be some nuance and fuckingcontext.
And just kind of rolling with the punches Before
we even came on, I was dealingwith electronic issues, because
this week my cat threw up intomy modem and fried it.
[upbeat electronic beat]
Brooke Monaghan (00:16):
Song" Hi everybody, welcome to the first
episode of Make your BusinessWork For you.
If you do not know who I amalready which I'm assuming if
you're listening to this, atleast at the time of this
podcast launching you probablyknow a bit about me.
My name is Brooke Monaghan.
I am the host and the creatorof this podcast, and for the
past four years I have been abusiness and leadership coach
(00:39):
and in that time I havewitnessed many of the issues
that small business owners,especially lifestyle business
owners, people who are doingthis work because they wanna
have some flexibility in theirlife do meaningful work and just
like support the lifestyle thatthey want, but are not looking
to create some massive company.
And those four years of workingwith people in that position
(01:02):
have taught me so much about themost common obstacles that
people are bumping up against,but also what really needs to be
better.
And so I have kind of pivotedmy work and I am working on
creating a new platform calledFruition Growth Network, and I
wanna tell you a little bitabout it only because I
reference it a few times inthese first few episodes and I
(01:25):
want you to know what I'mtalking about.
So Fruition Growth Network isan online community learning and
networking platform that I'mcreating, but it's also a place
where I am connecting smallbusiness owners with other small
business owners who can supportthem.
So through the course of thispodcast, you're gonna hear me
talking to different smallbusiness owners who are experts
(01:46):
in certain areas or certainindustries, and they're gonna be
coming in and offering theirguidance to you in an accessible
format.
We are also gonna haveworkshops and all kinds of other
helpful resources available inthe Fruition Growth Network
community, and that is going tobe opening in October.
(02:08):
So if you wanna learn moreabout that, go to joinfruition.
com.
And this show is really a partof this platform, and here's why
.
One of the biggest things thatI see derail small business
owners is that, because of thisbest practice in content
(02:31):
creation or in being an onlineservice provider because one of
the best practices is to behyper specific and focused we
are losing a lot of context andwe are losing a lot of nuance.
The problem is that there is abunch of shit that does not get
talked about, and I want myniche, if you will, to be
(02:54):
context and nuance, which makesno sense and feels so messy, and
yet I am witnessing the needfor it day in and day out, and
so we're giving it a shot.
And here is why.
We need to talk about things ina more human way and demystify
this concept of simple, easybusiness that would be true for
(03:18):
you, too, if only you couldfigure out how to do it right,
or if only you were disciplinedenough or a good enough student.
Because the reality is thatthere is a lot more complexity
going on behind the scenes forpeople.
There is a lot more mess, thereare lots of competing
priorities for different people.
(03:38):
Different people come fromdifferent circumstances,
different people want differentthings, and the result of that
is that actually, despite thefact that we are learning from
an industry that's telling usthat running a business is
really simple if you just do itright, I have yet to witness
that, in all of the people thatI've worked with and also in my
own business.
So I want us to be able to seethe truth, so that we can first
(04:02):
of all, know that we're notalone and then also kind of
settle in a little bit.
Settle in a little bit to thereality, so that we can stop
trying to chase that simple,easy, the money is just easily
flowing because you have finallydone it right destination.
And I'm not saying that youcan't allow things to be simpler
(04:24):
for yourself or easier foryourself.
I actually think that you can.
But I think that the way ofdoing that is not what we have
been told.
It is not to chase a certainexternal strategy and then
discipline yourself into doingit the right way in hopes that
things come together.
So that's gonna make more senseas we go through these few
(04:48):
episodes.
But the point is, if you'refeeling like everyone has it
figured out except for you, Ipromise you that you're not
alone, and my hope is thatthrough the conversations that
we have in this show, you'regoing to first of all see that
and also get some helpfulguidance that brings in some
more context, some more nuanceand brings a more human approach
(05:12):
, understanding that you are notjust your business.
Now, the other thing is that Iwant to have a place where we
can offer guidance and supportin a really accessible format.
Some of us can afford to workwith a coach or work with
somebody a consultant or belongto a mastermind where we can go
(05:35):
and get answers to our questions.
Some of us cannot do that.
This is a place where you canactually send us questions,
scenarios, dilemmas, and I willpull from my network of people
and find people who are bestsuited to give some guidance on
that and we will record anepisode on it.
So take us up on that.
(05:56):
Go to joinfruition.
com, click on ask the pros,submit your questions.
Now, in these first threeepisodes of the show, you're
going to hear three verydifferent styles of episodes.
That's intentional, becausethere's going to be different
styles of episodes on this show.
This first conversation is acandid talk with my dear friend,
Audrey Holst.
We had no plan and, by the way,highly recommend you take
(06:18):
advantage and write in questionsfor Audrey.
Audrey works on recovering fromperfectionism and managing
stress.
The other two episodes thatyou're gonna hear one of them is
a Q and A style episode, so youwill -- That one's gonna be
much more straightforward.
Questions are gonna come up.
We're gonna answer them.
Those episodes are going tofocus on a particular topic so
(06:40):
you'll be able to see if it'ssomething that's gonna be
helpful for you or not.
We're also gonna be working ongetting the Q and As all up on
YouTube in video format and wewill also be archiving all of
them on the joinfruition.
com website so that you can goand search questions by topic.
We'll have much more of a bankof those as time goes by and get
(07:01):
expert guidance on differentquestions that people in the
community have asked.
And if there isn't anythingthere, then you can join the
community and ask your question.
And people who are part of thecommunity have the benefit of
being able to, first of all, geta guaranteed response to your
questions and also see the fullvideo conversation when it is
recorded, rather than having towait for it to come up on a
future podcast episode.
(07:23):
The third episode that droppedtoday and, if you're listening
to this later, I'm talking aboutthese first three because I'm
dropping three episodes for yourbinging pleasure today, but
there will be more coming weeklyafter this.
The third is a conversationwith somebody who I have so much
respect for, Tanya Geisler, aperson whose teaching has
honestly changed the way that Iapproach my work.
We're gonna be talking aboutimposter complex and feeling
(07:47):
like everybody has it figuredout except for you, so I hope
that you enjoy.
I can't wait to hear what youthink.
Please, please, leave me arating and a review on Apple
podcasts if you enjoythe show, it makes a huge
difference and head tojoinfruition.
com, get on our email list,follow us over on Instagram at
joinfruition so that you knowwhen doors are opening.
(08:07):
We are going to be welcomingpeople in October and kicking
things off with some greatevents, and I cannot wait to see
you there.
.
Yeah, you've become one of mygo-to.
I'm just gonna vox Audrey aboutthis and see what Audrey thinks
.
Audrey Holst (08:29):
[laughs], which I love, and I'm like I'm just
gonna vox Brooke about this andthen it's gonna take some weird
left turn and it's gonna besuper nourishing for everybody
involved.
Brooke Monaghan (08:47):
I've been podcasting for a long time and
I've always been very frustratedby like the kind of content
that is like we're gonna tellyou exactly how to do a thing
and then act like it's easy.
Just gonna act like it's realsimple.
All you have to do is this andignoring all of the other things
that are going on.
For most people who runbusinesses.
(09:07):
Like I don't know, having livesnot fucking wanting to do the
thing that you just told them iseasy to do, not having the
capacity to do the thing thatyou just told them is easy to do
, for whatever reason, nothaving a business where that
actually works for them,whatever.
And what I started thinkingabout was this new platform that
(09:30):
I'm putting together, how Icould create something that was
a part of that and that wentalong with it, Because
originally I was just going tochange the name of my old
podcast and just be like I'mjust going to change the name
and keep doing what I'm doing.
And then I was like, oh no,that's not actually what I want
to do, because what I actuallywant to do is I want people who
are part of that community spacethat I'm opening to be able to
(09:53):
ask questions and then be like Idon't know the answer to that
because, guess what, we don'tall know all of the answers,
which is another thing that Ican't stand about, like some of
the podcasts that I find myselflistening to and realize I was
doing myself, where it's likeyou put this pressure on
yourself to think that youshould know the answers to all
the questions and obviously youdon't, but I know so many people
who know the answers.
(10:14):
So why not?
People are looking for podcaststo be on and ways to get in
front of new audiences.
Why not, like, bring peopletogether, like, this person has
a question, this person has ananswer.
You can ask it, then I'll putit on the podcast.
Everyone benefits, but it'salso not just me talking just
for the sake of talking, andthat was kind of what sparked me
(10:35):
putting this together.
And, of course, the reason thatyou were even though we did
talk about how you were a lastminute substitution.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm sorry, but you were goingto be for the first episode
because I wanted to talk to youabout your stuff.
I wanted to talk to you aboutperfectionism.
You're going to have to comeback for that part.
[Audrey] I'll be back, yeah.
[Brooke] but one of the reasonsI wanted to chat with you about
(10:56):
it is because this is the stuffthat you and I are talking
about all the time.
I feel like yeah, where we'relike, yeah, like you're supposed
to just X, Y and Z, and alsolike what the fuck?
Audrey Holst (11:08):
Totally so.
One of the things I'm curiousabout like for drawing things
out for anybody who's listeningright now, or like what are some
of the themes that have beenpopping up for you that you're
excited to talk to people about?
Brooke Monaghan (11:18):
Well, see, this is the thing.
Good question, because I thinkthat what I'm realizing is I'm
at a phase now where I can dothings less because I'm excited
about them and more because Iknow that they're genuinely
helpful for people.
Which is like a new thing forme, because I started my
original podcast being like, oh,this is a thing that I want to
create and that I'm reallyexcited about.
I mean, I am really excitedabout this, but also, like I
(11:42):
genuinely am curious about, likewhat are the questions that you
wish someone was actuallyanswering?
And like I probably knowsomeone who can give you, who
could have a more nuancedconversation with me about your
specific situation, or who couldfill in some of those details
that you feel like you're notgetting.
And so, I mean, the theme ofall of it is this like we can
(12:07):
consume, how- to content all wewant, but at the end of the day,
you can't actually just knowall of the things to do and then
just run down the list and dothem all.
Audrey Holst (12:16):
Yeah, totally.
Brooke Monaghan (12:17):
So, like, what do you do then, given the
complexity of like real worldsituations where you have
multiple priorities?
Y ou know.
So anyways, I mean, yeah, Iguess that, going into this, I'm
like I'm excited to have mypeople here who I know are
really smart and know somethings like answer the questions
(12:42):
that people actually wantanswers to and do a lot less
talking just for the sake offucking creating content.
Audrey Holst (12:47):
Yeah, I feel like that is one of the that is, I
feel like that's a theme rightnow in my own life and I think
that's a theme that's kind ofcoming up in conversation is is
a feeling of creating content,because it's something you're
supposed to do or something thatis now expected, or something
that feels like a necessary partof business, and the term
(13:12):
creating content it means so.
It's such a vague overarchingterm and I think, with all the
conversations with AI, right,like that's like a whole other
story.
Like what are we actually like?
What is being created?
What are we actually talkingabout?
Are we, are we creating content?
I'm putting all these things inquotes because, yeah, what is
(13:32):
creating content actually like?
Is it?
Is it just stuff that you feellike you got to throw out into
the world because that's whatwe're supposed to be doing to
keep ourselves in front ofpeople?
Are we creating things becauseit actually is like you're
talking about answering aquestion that somebody has and
is looking for an answer tosomething.
Are we creating because we areexcited about something, just
(13:53):
like you were talking aboutpreviously?
Brooke Monaghan (13:56):
So, even when you said that back to me really
creating content I was like ugh,because it's become this
concept that it's so interesting, because it's almost like one
of those things where like, ifyou aim directly at creating
really great content, you're notgonna.
[Audrey] Yes.
[Brooke] Like if you'recreating content for the sake of
(14:16):
creating content, you'reactually not focusing on the
thing that you should befocusing on, which is creating
something beautiful, useful,helpful, whatever it is,
whatever your reason forcreating is, and then putting
that out there.
That is whatever it is thatyou're creating and sharing with
people.
That is content.
But we have forgotten aboutthat because we're so obsessed
with doing it the right way.
(14:39):
And the other thing in this isthis feels so relevant for
conversations that you and Ihave been having about your work
.
Yeah, because you just had this,like I mean, I don't know if
you want to talk about it here,but like you just also had this
kind of like epiphany aboutwriting your book in a totally
different way.
Yes, I'm like immediatelysensing this, like through line
(15:01):
between what I'm talking abouthere and and what's interesting
too.
And this is like so, man I'm soexcited now because it's such a
good indicator of the fact that, like doing this, doing what
both of us are doing right now,could lead you to two completely
different things.
Like I'm choosing to be, like Iwant to create a thing because
(15:22):
I like less, because I'm excitedto do it and more because I'm
witnessing people are lookingfor certain information, and I
know people who have it, and Icould bring those people
together and we could demystifythis whole idea that there's,
like this, one simple answerthat you're just missing or that
everyone has it figured outexcept for you.
For you, I think that you'realso completely flipping the
(15:43):
idea of creating content on itshead, but it's taking you to a
much different place, which is,like the point of why I want to
be talking about all of this.
Audrey Holst (15:55):
Yeah, yeah, and always full disclosure.
This is my process.
This does not have to be yourprocess, but if hearing about my
process is helpful, awesome.
If you think it's stupid,that's cool too.
So I have.
I've been writing a book forseveral years now.
I actually had a bookcompletely written.
It was in the second round ofedits and the my rough draft
(16:18):
happened right before thepandemic.
My first round of editshappened like right in the midst
of it and when and I steppedaway from it for a while because
I don't know, didn't seem likethe most important thing to be
doing at that time.
When I came back to it and Iwas reading through it, I'm like
this is not interesting to me.
This is centering all the wrongstuff.
(16:40):
It was centering what thethings that I was, and I think
this happens a lot of times to.
I know that you've talked aboutthis where we center the things
we don't want.
I'm not centering the oppressionor I'm centering the white
supremacy or I'm centering right?
I'm centering the things that Iam anti, yeah, but I'm actually
(17:00):
not bringing to the forefrontthe things that I want people to
be highlighting, payingattention to and spending more
time with Right.
And if we're talking about thenervous system which is a lot of
the stuff that I talk about andwrite about, is that's already
become a challenge.
Is that a lot of the folks Iwork with, a lot of the folks
that a lot of things I talkabout, we start centering the
stuff we don't want.
We put a lot of energy thereand we start orienting towards
(17:22):
those things.
Okay, well, if you're orientingtowards all the stuff you don't
want, how are you going to getto the stuff you do want?
Right, it's like what's yourNorth Star?
If you're staring at a blackhole over here, I'm like,
gesturing at different sides ofmy body, you can't see me.
If I'm just, you know, if I'mlike staring down the black hole
, how am I ever going to get tothe sun?
Like, I actually have to turnmy head, look at the sun and
(17:43):
start orienting that direction.
Brooke Monaghan (17:46):
I think that's what creativity is, by the way,
I think like, yeah, it's like nolonger focusing on all of the
things that are that you'reagainst or that are wrong or
that you want to fix, andfocusing on creating the thing
that you do.
Which is super fucking risky.
And scary.
Audrey Holst (18:11):
Y eah.
Totally.
And so I started writing itagain and it again started
centering.
I got through three quarters ofthe book second time around and
I was like and at that point Ihad done some like rearranging,
I had trashed a bunch of bunchof stuff I've kind of like
trashed and burned and then likerewritten, sort of mashed back
together this book in severaldifferent ways.
(18:32):
And again I was like, why am Italking about this?
There's a lot of talk aboutwork, there's a lot of talk
about business and, to be honest, that's not the thing, that's
not the conversation I want tohave.
Like these things are part ofpeople's lives and they're part
of they're big parts of people'slives, but that's, that's not.
Again, it's not what I want tocenter.
I don't want to be centeringbusiness or work.
I don't think it's.
(18:52):
The important thing is tocenter.
So here we go, slash and burn.
Here it goes again and I juststarted thinking about, like
what is the book that I want tomake?
Like what's the experience Iwant to have
making this book?
And I think that's becausethat's a part of the process
right is like being able toenjoy the process, and there's
(19:14):
plenty of people who write booksbecause they want to, you know
they have a particular objectivefor it.
Right, it's marketing or it'swhatever.
But I don't.
That's not my, that's not myobjective.
Like originally it was kind oflike that, but at this point I'm
like that's not really what Icare about.
And I actually had a reallyinteresting conversation with a
woman by the name of ElizabethWatkins Price and she is, she
(19:37):
just wrote a book and wastelling me about her process and
she was getting super jazzed.
It's really fun to talk to likeother writers who get it like
it's very, very exciting.
And she was talking abouthaving done something similar
where she was like I wanted totalk about it, like I wanted to
write, I wanted to like becomethe person to write the book
that I wanted to write and itwas like a lot of memoir.
(19:59):
But like the memoir was sovulnerable and raw that it ended
up being like wrapped in a lotof my practices, which actually
felt like a really compassionatething to do, and like even me
talking about it right now andand like she can talk about it
obviously way more, way betterthan I just did, but it like
gave me chills.
Like that's the process.
Yes, like you go through thejourney, like the writing itself
(20:22):
does something to you andbrings you to a place, and then
you figure out how to wrap thatin something that like does
something for you and then itdoes something for somebody else
and like that's the whole thing.
It's like if you're notcreating for yourself or for
somebody else or in relationship, it's just like what are we
doing?
Are we really just likethrowing stuff against a wall
(20:44):
because we've been told to throwsomething against the wall?
So that's the very not linearprocess.
So that's where I am now, andI've got a.
I've got a bunch of stickynotes, I've got all sorts of
stuff up and one of the one ofthe parts of the book that one
of the sticky notes is actuallyabout what we've been talking to
(21:05):
a little bit here is likeconcept versus reality, like us
relating to a concept versuslike relating to what's here.
Yeah, there's something aboutrelating to like what's here
versus just like this right,this concept of creating content
.
When I say creating content, Ihave no relationship to that
term.
[Brooke] The cat has joined theconversation.
I will.
Yeah, when [Audrey] Everybodygo into YouTube and the cat has
(21:27):
has entered the chat.
Brooke Monaghan (21:29):
Yeah, what's the.
What's the cat's name?
I forget.
I feel terrible.
What's the name?
[Audrey] Sweet Pea [Brooke]Sweet Pea, of course, duh.
I just thought Sweet Pea wasabout to like turn their little
head and like talk into themicrophone, just like perfect.
Audrey Holst (21:41):
It may happen.
Brooke Monaghan (21:44):
Yeah, it's like this whole like okay, well, if
we're not doing something thatlike does something for us or
does something for other people,we're not creating a thing
that's like for you know, for us, or in that process, then what
are we doing?
It's like what we're doing iswe're trying to figure out how
to do the thing that has beenpromised to deliver all of the
money.
(22:04):
I think is it's like there'sthis promise that if you do all
of the stuff the right way andyou just create content in this
way and whatever, then it'sgoing to work, and work usually
means make money.
But what I see is that likepeople are aiming for that when
that's not actually the reasonwhy they're even here.
(22:27):
Like not to say that we don'twant to make money of course we
do, but really like you couldjust go and get a job if that's
what you wanted to do andsometimes people decide to do
that and that's great and alsolike, if that doesn't feel
satisfying to you, then thereason that doesn't feel
(22:49):
satisfying to you is becauseactually you're here for a
different reason and part ofwhat I'm, like you know,
constantly wrestling I feel likeconstantly wrestling with.
I feel like is this like making,just making money is actually
not that hard of a problem tosolve.
I mean, it is for some people,of course, and in certain
(23:13):
circumstances, obviously, butwhat's the hard part problem to
solve is figuring out how to dowhat you actually want to do,
create the thing that youactually want to create, fit
that in with what you want yourlife to look like and figure out
how to make it, make you money,which is a much different thing
(23:35):
from just going down thefucking checklist of all the
shit that you're supposed to do,and I feel like no one's giving
themselves enough credit forthat.
Audrey Holst (23:43):
Like, totally yeah .
And so, like the metaphor thatjust popped into my mind, it's
like if you were to write achecklist on how to grow a plant
.
Right, it's like you get thedirt, you plant the seeds, you
water the seeds, you you know,you give it sunlight, whatever.
But here's the thing Weatherhappens right.
(24:07):
Weather is unpredictable.
You may get the right weather,you may get the wrong weather.
You don't really know.
Are you growing it inside oryou're growing it outside?
Like, are there animals thatmay come and eat those?
Right, there are.
It's like there are so manycircumstances and and factors
that play into a process that,like none of these checklists,
happen in a vacuum.
Brooke Monaghan (24:27):
Right.
Exactly, exactly.
Business doesn't happen in avacuum.
Business happens because peoplerun businesses and human beings
turns out are kind of fuckingcomplex.
Audrey Holst (24:42):
Living in a kind of complex world and a little
bit, just a little bit.
Brooke Monaghan (24:47):
So I'm just like endlessly fascinated by and
I mean, it makes sense, right,because we're all drawn to this
idea of things just being simple.
So, and this is the other thing,too, that I always try to like
remind myself of is like, ratherthan just being angry about the
kinds of conversations that areout there, the kinds of content
that is out there, the kinds ofthe ways that we're being told
to approach a certain thing,remembering that the reason that
(25:10):
that exists is because, on theother side of things, we're all
out here looking for the easyanswer.
Like we're all out here lookingfor the simple just give me the
answer, just get to the point,kind of thing, and so that it,
you know, it's a, it's a trickything, yeah, but I think that
part of what I'm kind of craving, I guess, is almost this, like
(25:35):
this exposing like what is trueand real here, which is that
there's such an illusion of likethere's people who know how to
do things and who haveeverything figured out and
everything, and for those people, things are just simple and
(25:56):
easy and what, and they know howto do the right things, and you
are somehow broken, flawed,fucked up because, despite the
fact that you're consuming allof the stuff that those people
are putting out there, it's notworking for you, but it's
working for everybody else.
And I'm just like but is it, oris it just like but is it?
Audrey Holst (26:21):
That's the thing, right?
I think that, and I think thething is, like, what we need to
say is some people are makingmoney, some people are not
making money.
Some people are putting up thefront that they're making money,
but they're not making money.
Some people have jobs, somepeople don't have jobs, some
people have spouses orsignificant others, some people
have other sources of income.
Right, like there are so manythings happening in the
(26:42):
background and it is and nobodytalks about those things which
is like both fine, but then alsovery difficult for people who
are trying to understand.
Like, because that's one of thethings we do as humans, right,
as we look around at each otherand say, like am I where I'm
supposed to be?
Am I in the right group ofpeople?
Like, am I doing the rightthings?
Like, am I in the right stage?
(27:03):
Like, what's going on?
And because there are a lot ofthese conversations that are not
happening, we don't know.
Brooke Monaghan (27:09):
Like we just don't know.
Yeah, yeah, and I was having aconversation with somebody this
morning.
I asked this group, what'ssomething that you want to learn
more about?
And somebody said I just wantto know what to do.
Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh,first of all, me too.
(27:32):
All of us.
Audrey Holst (27:35):
Same.
Brooke Monaghan (27:36):
This is what we're all looking for, and also,
what that really is is a callfor self-trust, because the idea
that there is a what to do isthe whole fucking thing.
And like what I and I feel likepeople might be listening to
this and be like, okay, great,except, like you know, just
trusting myself isn't going tolike get me out of this
(27:58):
situation.
Well, actually I think it would.
I actually think that it would,because, like the, it's like
when you are looking for peopleto tell you how to do the thing,
all the time and when, andespecially when you're looking
to this kind of content thatwe're talking about.
This whole conversation hasended up centering around this
(28:18):
sort of content but [Audrey]It's like how to?
How to do content.
[Brooke] That kind of yeahwhich, by the way, the next
episode of this podcast is goingto be very Q&A and you're just
getting answers.
So I mean, you know, but it'sgoing to be to like specific
questions, and I hope thatthere's some nuance in there
that allows you to take what'shelpful and leave what isn't.
but it's like look, constantlylooking for the give me the
(28:46):
answer.
Constantly looking for theright person who's going to
finally give you the thingthat's going to help you move
the needle.
Constantly looking for themissing piece of information is
kind of just distracting youfrom what you are actually here
to create, or your own uniqueideas or your own perspective on
(29:07):
a thing, or how you could dothings differently.
And I think that we are also ina kind of like it's really
frustrating where we're at rightnow because it's yeah, I think
I'm talking to I am talking to alot of people who are saying
things that used to work aren'tworking the way that they used
to anymore.
Yes, which is really reallyfrustrating.
And also that means you get todo whatever the fuck you want,
(29:29):
because if the right way isn'tworking anyways, then maybe
change it up and start running afucking experiment and try
something else.
Because, like, I mean, what doyou have to lose?
Right, you know?
And that's where the actualcreativity comes in and that's
where you can actually likeapproach things differently and
that's where you actually havethe space to say, okay, this is
what I want this to look like,or this is what I want to create
(29:51):
for other people, or the changethat I want to make, or the
impact that I want to have, orthe thing that I want to set
straight I'm going to approachthis from a place of self trust
and creativity, that I can bringthat to life, and also approach
the money making piece from aplace of creativity, rather than
just trying to follow the rulesbecause, I mean, I don't know.
(30:13):
I just I have learned thislesson over and over again.
Literally every single timethat I ever find something where
I'm like, aha, this is it, thisis going to be the thing that
is finally going to changeeverything and finally, like the
money is going to start flowingin and everything's going to be
easy, I'm like oh right, andyet again, it's actually more
complicated than that.
(30:34):
Great.
I actually have to be morecreative than that.
I actually have to make it workfor my unique circumstances.
I actually have to, like tapinto what I think, or put my own
spin on the thing, or take onepart of it that works and like
to completely forget all therest of it, because the rest of
it is distracting me like, and Ijust so badly want to like stop
(31:01):
this pattern that I see so manypeople get sucked into, where
you're just on the search forthat thing that's going to, like
you know, finally make it allmake sense.
Audrey Holst (31:11):
I've seen the other side, right like I've
worked with folks who havereally successful businesses,
like financially successful, andlike they've hit, they've
checked off all the things right, and so they've checked all
things and I don't you know for,for disclosure, people don't
know like I don't, I'm not abusiness coach, right like I do
a lot of coaching aroundperfectionism and stress and
(31:34):
anxiety and that [Brooke] turnsout lots of us business owners
struggle with those things.
[Audrey] Turns out.
You know that there's a lot ofthat going on in this world.
Brooke Monaghan (31:42):
Wait, entrepreneurs need your help.
I don't know why they wouldever need that.
Audrey Holst (31:49):
So, like I've, I've seen, right, I work with a
lot of the people who arebecause, you know, also spoiler
alert people often don't hire meuntil they've got the funds to
be like, okay, like I actuallyfeel like I can now hire the
person that can help me and that, like you know, stress
emotional sort of nervous systemside, which is totally fair.
Right, you're trying to makewise investments when you're
(32:10):
getting things going.
But, yeah, I end up with thepeople who are and I don't just
work with entrepreneurs, likeI'm also working with people
with with regular jobs but a lotof the people who've checked
all the checkboxes right,they've got the stable income,
they've got the business that'sworking, they do know what
levers to pull and they're notand guess what like nothing
(32:31):
magically happened.
It's not like all of thosethings happen and all of a
sudden they're like, yay, now Ican kick back and relax.
No, because they have no ideahow to not do anything other
than just like sprint on thehamster wheel as fast as
possible.
Brooke Monaghan (32:44):
Yep.
And, by the way, for everybodywho's looking at those people
from the outside thinking, oh mygosh, those people just have it
all together.
They figured it out, they justhave it on autopilot.
Everything's probably runninglike a well oiled machine over
there.
All they have to do is justwake up and just stroll into
their probably beautiful officeand, just you know, like breeze
(33:06):
through their day.
I think that both of us canconfirm that that is not what's
going on.
Audrey Holst (33:15):
It's not what's going on.
It's not what's going on,unless people have really done
some like deep inquiry andthey're certain, and they've
been like confronting thatconcept, like they're throughout
the entire, the entire build,and I think that that's the
that's kind of the rub is thatthere is not a finish line.
You're not going to get to apoint where, all of a sudden,
you're like the heavens open upand the angels come down and all
(33:39):
the money flows and you're likeI'm done now and I feel great,
like there's a lot more.
There just continues to becomplexity and things that
happen and things that areinteresting, and I guess it, and
if you're not, I guess thequestion, I guess that what I
want to say is if, like, ifthat's the vision you have, then
the reality is going to be likea harsh slap in the face.
Brooke Monaghan (34:01):
Yeah, and I think that a lot of people are
continuing to be like Wait, thisis my reality, so that means
there's something wrong with me,Or this is my reality, and so
that means that I'm doingsomething wrong, or this is my
reality, and so I must not be ascapable as I thought I was
Right.
Instead of this is your reality.
(34:22):
These are the things that youknow that you want to be
different.
Is it possible to like have alittle bit of acceptance of what
reality is right now?
Give yourself a little bit ofthose things that you want to be
different, actually live yourfucking life and like know, that
, whatever it is, like you'regoing to have to keep showing up
to this and it is going to bework and it is going to be
(34:43):
challenging.
And so how can you like set itup in a way where you can like
at least show up to it day inand day out, in a way that
doesn't feel like a total, justlike you're getting the shit
beat out of you every day?
And I think that, like we haveto, we have to recognize that so
much of the industry that youknow you're not a business coach
(35:05):
but, surprise, you're on abusiness podcast, so you're in
the business developmentindustry with me right now.
So much of this industrythrives on the blue sky promises
.
It thrives on the it runsbecause of the fact that people
are convinced that they're goingto hit some sort of finish line
(35:28):
.
Right, yep, and it's re, it'sreinforced at the top of every
sales page that you see.
Yep, like what if things get tobe like this and you finally
get to blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right, and I'll be honest withyou, as I was thinking about
being even more explicit, aboutbreaking that down, I was
thinking well, okay then wheredoes that leave people?
(35:48):
And am I doing?
Am I being dumb by being like,actually, like, that's not
because where does that leave me?
Do I have something to offer?
If I'm not hooking people onsome kind of blue sky, like
promise of, like everything getsto be different and ultimately,
it's like what I kind of comeback around to is, like I know
(36:12):
for a fact that if I'm, if I'mwitnessing that and I can see it
so clearly any fear that I havethe position that it would put
me in to no longer participatein it, if I can manage to set
that aside and just focus oncreating something better, I'm
going to be fucking fine.
I'm gonna be fine, and thereason I know that I'm going to
(36:35):
be fine is because we sodesperately need something
better.
There's just no way that, if Ireally focus my energy on
creating something thatapproaches things differently
and gives people a different wayof looking at things, I just
can't, I'm not willing to acceptthat that would somehow fuck me
(36:56):
over in any way, because I lookaround and I see the people who
need it and I'm like I mean,this is what this is like, what
this is my whole fucking job.
My whole job is to witness whatpeople need and try to create a
solution for it.
And so, anyways, all of this tosay it's like I think that this
kind of brings us back aroundto where we started this
(37:17):
conversation, which is like wehave all of these things that
are pulling us back to like, no,do do things this way, don't
trust yourself in your owncreativity, don't have the real
conversation.
Don't write something just towrite it.
Don't write something just toconnect with people or offer a
different perspective.
Write a thing because it'smarketing.
Do a thing because it's in anindustry where you can make
(37:38):
money.
Do a thing because it's smartand strategic and whatever for
your business and that,ultimately, I think that we're
just at this point right nowwhere look around and look at
all of the things that you'reseeing around you and ask
yourself how helpful it feelslike it is to you and ask
yourself if you want to be oneof those people or if you want
to be the person who's daring todo things a bit differently and
(38:00):
creating to actually createsomething better and more
beautiful and whatever.
And like I don't know wherethat leaves us, like I don't
know I can't make a guaranteethat that money is going to flow
from that because, to be honest, that's some straight fucking
bullshit too.
That's like the whole what likethe prosperity gospel of like
(38:20):
fucking money goes to people whoare like doing things the right
way and our good people andwhatever.
Audrey Holst (38:27):
If you really want to make a perfectionist totally
lose their mind, just go downthat rabbit hole.
Brooke Monaghan (38:32):
Right.
So we can't make thoseguarantees, but what I can tell
you is that I don't know atleast the thing that you said
you wanted to do when youdecided to do the work that you
chose to do like, which I'massuming was do something
meaningful and something thatmatters to you and feel like
you're having an impact onpeople and actually enjoy your
work and have some sense ofcreative control and freedom.
(38:55):
You could have that, and I mean, if the things that you're
trying that are supposedly goingto make you money are not
making you money anyway, I don'tknow.
Maybe we give it a shot, likethat's my whole thing is.
I'm like I'm not guaranteeingyou that any of the stuff is
going to work, but I can tellyou that if you're not willing
to even try it, you're going tohave a damn hard time of, like
(39:17):
you know, getting where you wantto go.
Audrey Holst (39:20):
Yeah, and I think it's the thing that keeps coming
up for me around.
This conversation is just justlike getting real with what your
risk tolerance is.
Yes, because I and I think thatthat's a real, that is such a.
That's just like such a realconversation right there.
(39:41):
When I say risk tolerance, thatcovers a lot of bases Like what
is your financial risktolerance right?
Because people are going tohave all sorts of different
numbers.
They're going to have all sortsof different histories.
Again, they're going to haveall sorts of different income
streams, or maybe they don'thave all sorts of income streams
.
Maybe they have savings, maybethey don't have savings, maybe
they have, you know, investors,maybe they don't.
(40:02):
There's that's going to lookvery different.
What are people is likeemotional risk tolerances
because, listen, this is notthis.
This shit is not easy,especially if you're in the
public eye.
Depending also, depending onwhat you're interested in
creating, what you're interestedin saying, how um fired up,
that's going to get people right.
That can create a certainamount of, you know, social risk
(40:23):
perhaps for people.
These are all things that arereal right.
They're, all sorts of thingsthat are real.
You know, when there's that kindof conversations around like
taking up space and being loudand all of that sort of stuff,
yes, and they, everything stillcomes with a consequence, like I
think that that's the piecethat I want to be really
(40:45):
explicit about, because there isa lot of blue sky and there is
a lot of, you know, sort ofpositive psychology, but I'm
like, okay, and these again, areconcepts and we also live in
like a reality and there is likethere there are consequences to
our actions.
Right, there are consequences toour actions, and so not
(41:07):
everybody is going to receive usin a in a wonderful way and
some people receive us poorly,and that's going to be like,
what is people's tolerances forthat sort of thing?
Because I think that's like, Ithink that's totally real, I
think it's worth worth thinkingabout that, and people's
willingness to be brave and trystuff out and be experimental
and like stick their toes in thewater and check things out and
(41:28):
see how it goes.
Like that's how change getscreated too, where new ideas
come about.
Like nothing new ever gotcreated, nothing, nothing ever
got shifted, because people werelike
Brooke Monaghan (41:37):
What's the way you're supposed to do this again
?
Let me follow the instructions.
You know on that same point ofrisk tolerance, one of the
things that I think about allthe time is like am I willing to
?
There are certain things that Ihave considered doing or trying
or have done in the past becauseof the fact that there's a
(41:58):
promise attached to it that,like this is what everyone says
you have to do, this is whateveryone says works works, and
so you know what being being inbusiness means you have to make
money.
That's the definition of beingin business, so I'm willing to
do it, and what I started askingmyself more and more is like am
I willing to take the risk ofthat not working because it's
(42:21):
going to suck.
And sometimes the answer is yes, I am, but I think that we,
like I think I've had to getmyself more used to rather than
going into, because what I woulddo before is I would ask myself
that question if it was my idea.
So I want to try this.
Well, am I really willing torisk that potentially not
(42:44):
working because it might notwork?
But then a "tried quote,unquote best practice you know
would be presented to me and Iwould never ask myself that
question.
Audrey Holst (42:53):
[Brooke] I would just think, okay, I have to do
that because that's the thingthat works.
[Audrey] Ohhh, interesting.
[Brooke] And if it doesn't work, it just means that I'm not
doing it enough.
Brooke Monaghan (42:59):
I'm not doing it.
I'm not doing it right orwhatever right, but I never was
asking myself, and actuallythere's a risk of that not
working too, and am I willing totry that if it potentially
isn't going to work?
I would only ask myself thatwith my ideas.
Audrey Holst (43:14):
Am I willing to risk it?
Am I willing to put my right?
Brooke Monaghan (43:21):
Yeah, and so it's just interesting to now
notice, like, where I perceiveall of the risk is, and like I
perceive other people's ideas asa sure thing.
And I perceive my ideas asrisky.
And it's not true.
How many times do I need tohave that proven to me?
How many fucking times does itneed to become just so obvious,
(43:44):
through real, real worldexperience, that that is not how
the world works, it is not howthis works.
[Audrey] Yes.
[Brooke] And yet here I amconvincing myself that every
idea that I have as a risk andevery idea that everybody else
has is just a sure thing, thatif only I was just a good enough
fucking student that I couldjust do it right and just be
disciplined enough.
Audrey Holst (44:04):
And that's the, that's the thing.
I'm with you in that camp, I'mtotally with you in that camp is
that if I'm a good enoughstudent of whatever philosophy
or whatever practice, then it'sgoing to work.
Right, because obviouslyeverybody else seems to be doing
it just fine.
It seems to be working for them.
But like if I come up withsomething then it's brand new
(44:26):
and it's never been tested andlike it's risky and all.
Yeah, I mean that's again.
I think we're talking aboutthat discernment.
[Brooke] Yeah, right.
[Audrey] Is figuring out, ismaybe putting the question mark
right above everything.
Brooke Monaghan (44:41):
Yeah, on that note of the you know everybody
else's whatever.
I just thought it would be, youknow, helpful to throw out
there in case anyone doesn'tknow this.
Most businesses lose money.
I don't know if anyone's awareof that, you know, because I
feel like we have this right.
Audrey Holst (44:58):
The destination business is making money, but
businesses lose a lot of it.
Brooke Monaghan (45:02):
Yes, like if you're not losing money, if you
are not pouring money in andactually losing money, you are
actually performing better thana lot of very large businesses
out there.
I like not sure if you're aware, you know, and I don't think
that we were not, because we'renot told that, like, the image
(45:26):
that we have is that, like,everyone has figured out how to
do it except for us, and it'sjust not true.
It's like I think it's like Ithink it's around 60% of
businesses are not making money.
I was listening to the podcastwhat's it called the Dropout,
(45:47):
which was the podcast aboutElizabeth Holmes and Theranos.
Oh, yes, and then they did aseries while she was on trial.
Audrey Holst (45:56):
Yeah.
Brooke Monaghan (45:56):
For people who are listening, who are not
familiar with the story, whichyou probably are familiar with
the story, Elizabeth Holmes wasa CEO of a very large medical
technology company thatbasically the entire thing was
just smoke and mirrors and shewas just conning people into
giving her huge amounts of moneyfor investments and couldn't do
any of the things that she saidthis business could do.
(46:18):
And I was listening to it and Iwas just thinking about the
hundreds of millions of dollarsthat this woman got these people
to give her.
This company was operating fora decade and I'm listening to it
and I'm like you know what'scool?
My business makes more moneythan Theranos ever made.
(46:39):
That's cool.
But this is the thing that Idon't think we realize, or we
don't.
We think about people.
We put other people on thiskind of like.
We think about their story istotally different, where it's
like these huge companies thatare legit and whatever, and we
don't know how to do that andactually like I don't understand
(47:02):
that really the idea thateveryone has it figured out
except for you is not onlybullshit, but like you can be an
operational business that is amulti-million dollar business
and actually be losing money,and so where does that leave us
then?
Because, like, if the goal isno longer to have the six-figure
(47:26):
business, or have theseven-figure business or the
whatever, then what the fuck isthe goal?
Okay, then how about we comeback?
Audrey Holst (47:32):
to that.
Yeah, yeah, let's back it upabout 50 million steps.
Brooke Monaghan (47:36):
It just blows my mind because I'm like, wow,
we're so confused.
Audrey Holst (47:40):
Yeah, and why wouldn't we be Exactly?
Brooke Monaghan (47:43):
We're confused because of the kinds of
conversations that are being hadin, you know, and,
unfortunately, in the placeswhere we're going to look for
help, where we're going to seeksome sort of help me, help me
see that I'm not as alone, giveme some kind of answer to move
me forward and I just feel likein a lot of those places where
(48:03):
we're looking for that, we'regetting something that's
actually sucking us further intothis spiral and distracting us
more from what we actually wantto create.
And for most business ownersmost business owners want to
have a good fucking time.
That's what I've realized.
Most business owners decided togo into business for themselves
because they wanted to have aflexible fucking schedule.
(48:25):
That's what most people decidedwanted when they decided to go
into business for themselves.
They wanted, like, to be ableto choose when they work, to
have some sort of like creativecontrol over their work, to do
something meaningful, maybeexpress their creativity.
And I just am like, okay, let'scome back to that and the
reality of that, because youtake a few steps in to figure
(48:46):
out how to make it happen.
And the next thing, you know,it's like so many of us have
lost sight of all the reasonswhy we even came here and are
now sucked into this machine oflike this is how you do business
.
That recreates all the thingsthat we hated about our jobs.
Audrey Holst (49:01):
Yeah, yeah, it just becomes more business as
usual, but with just a differentface on it.
Brooke Monaghan (49:07):
I don't know.
I hope that we can havedifferent kinds of conversations
here, and probably we're gonnaoften miss the mark.
That's fine too.
We're gonna figure it outtogether, but at least there
will be some nuance and fuckingcontext.
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