July 17, 2023 • 9 mins
Megan Maricle shares the deadliest catch for dungeon delvers everywhere!
Read the transcript and get more from the show:
https://scintilla.studio/monster-sharkbowl-ooze/
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Join the conversation: www.twitter.com/SparkOtter
Meet my guests:
https://koboldpress.com/the-kobold-team/
Music by Jason Shaw at Audionautix.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lucas (00:00):
This episode of Making a Monster is
(00:01):
brought to you by the Book of Extinction.
Pre-order now at
magehandpress.com/extinction.
Megan Maricle (00:09):
At first it just looks
like a room with a treasure chest in it.
So it's more like, Hey look,
there's cool treasure over there.
You open the door, just
step right into it.
It's fine, it's fine.
There's no trap at all.
Cause you know, when they see the
treasure chest, they're gonna expect
ya know the treasure chest is either
a mimic or it's trapped or something.
They're not gonna expect that
the ooze is filling the room and
(00:29):
they just stepped into the ooze.
Now you're inside of a, an ooze that has a
shark that swims around and bites people!
Lucas (00:36):
Hello and welcome
back to Making a Monster.
I'm your host, Lucas Zellers,
author of Book of Extinction now
on pre-order and coming soon in
hardcover from Mage Hand Press.
I'm going to Gen Con again this year!
The best four days in gaming are in
Indianapolis from August 3rd through
sixth, and if you're coming to the
convention, I'd love to meet you.
Just stop by the Mage Hand
(00:56):
Press booth number 2563.
I'll probably be there.
In honor of my second year at the
Con, I wanted to share this episode
I recorded during Gen Con 2022, where
I was introduced to Megan Markle.
Megan Maricle (01:08):
Hi.
I am Megan Maricle and I'm one
of the editors at Kobold Press.
I first came on board working
on their Monster books,
doing the editing for those.
Lucas (01:15):
We connected over the
Creature Codex, literally
I held a mic over the book.
Kobold Press has published three volumes
of the Creature Codex since 2013.
I asked Megan, which of her
monsters made her most proud.
Megan Maricle (01:27):
Well, I'm
proud of all of them.
I worked a lot.
That's like asking a parent
to choose their favorite
child, like that is not fair.
I mean, every parent has a favorite,
but you can't actually ask them that.
Like, goodness gracious.
Um, well, let's see if we're looking at
things that are kind of underrepresented,
the Creature Codex has the giant Shark
Bowl ooze, which is a lot of fun.
(01:49):
I know this is like audio only, but
you can at least see the picture.
Lucas (01:52):
I can.
If you don't know, oozes are one
of 13 creature types in the fifth
edition Monster manual, which
describes them as gelatinous creatures
that rarely have aff fixed shape.
They're mostly subterranean dwelling
in caves and dungeons, and feeding
on refuse carrying or creatures
unlucky enough to get in their way.
The most famous ooze, I would argue,
is the one that conforms its shape
(02:14):
to occupy the most volume possible.
In dungeons with rectangular
corridors, it assumes its most
recognizable form the gelatinous cube.
In sewers, it would become a
cylinder as it pushes through pipes.
However, it might also respond to
strange magic and form a kind of
aquarium for another large predator.
I asked Megan where oozes
(02:35):
generally fit in the structure
of a Dungeons and Dragons game.
Megan Maricle (02:38):
Well, a lot of people I
know use oozes kind of as traps, right?
Because oozes are not very
intelligent creatures, generally.
We do have one ooze that's kind of smart,
but for the most part, yeah, they're
meant to be this kind of force of nature.
They're kind of like the garbage
disposals of the dungeons and stuff
like that, but they're usually in, in a
kind of like trap oriented type thing.
(03:00):
You're usually used them as
a, Oh, this thing is here.
you stumble into it or it falls from
the ceiling, or something like that,
because they're not the brightest
and they're usually predators, but in
that kind of slow walking towards you
death, like, you know, Jason Vorhees
or something, they're not, they're
not like the cat that's gonna pounce
around you from the corner, you know?
So if I remember correctly, 2018
(03:21):
was when this book came out.
So please forgive my terrible memory,
but I believe the Giant Sharks was
actually something a backer submitted.
And we're Kobold Press, we don't do a
ton of goofy monsters, but we do like
some fun ones occasionally, right?
We have a "swol-bold,", so, We do like
some, some goofy stuff occasionally, but
yeah, so the giant shark bowl ooze just
made the whole judge's panel chuckle.
Uh, so they're like, All
right, you made us all chuckle.
(03:42):
Fine.
You'll put it in the book.
Lucas (03:44):
Writing the mechanics for this
Monster followed exactly the template
you would expect Fusing two existing stat
blocks to create a symbiotic relationship.
Megan Maricle (03:52):
It has to have
everything crunched up first,
and that's what the shark is for.
It does all the crunching.
We've had some people make miniatures
of it, so it's very impactful for
some, if they make like fishbowls
and they put like resin and stuff
in it with the shark inside of it.
, People are excellent.
I, I love people.
Lucas (04:06):
What was the first
edition of D&D that you played?
Megan Maricle (04:08):
First
edition that I played?
I played second edition,
Dungeons and Dragons.
I played in 1994.
I was, oh gosh, eight years old.
And uh, my parents both played,
my mom and my stepdad both played
and they were big fans of D&D.
They had a big group with
their college friends.
And, uh, I thought that it was just that
(04:30):
boring, grown up game, you know, in the
same way that like, when you're watching
movies, you see like the dudes around
the poker table, smoking and drinking
and just playing poker, and you're like,
Oh, that's the boring part of the movie.
Right.
Uh, and I was like, D&D just have
boring things that my parents do.
But then a book released that year, um,
it was either 94 or 95 that it released.
It was called Council of Wyrms.
(04:51):
And my, yeah, my parents were like, Hey,
because we move, we had moved further
out in the country, so they were away
from their friends and they're like,
Okay, well let's get the kids to play.
And we were both like, That's
the boring, grown up thing that's
like just as boring as poker.
Why would do that?
Um, and they were like, Well,
you could play a baby dragon.
And I was like, There's
dragons in this game.
(05:11):
Uh, so I've been playing
ever since myself.
So part of the reason I ask is that I
have heard in older editions that there
was a more adversarial relationship
between Dungeon Master and player.
Is that part of your experience
and do you think that oozes are
indicative of that in any way?
I don't think that that is edition based.
I actually think that's more of
(05:32):
the age of the players based.
Cause when I played as a kid,
my parents were in college and
they were playing with kids.
So we never had an
adversarial relationship.
It was all about telling a fun story.
Right.
One of my first encounters in D&D
was I was a dragon, polymorphed,
attempting to go help a village.
But I had to pretend that I didn't
know anything about human customs.
(05:52):
And that was the kind of fun we had.
We never had an adversarial
relationship or anything like that.
It was all meant to just be what story
we wanna tell, the fun we wanna have.
But later, when I played in
high school with my high school
friends, it did become much more
adversarial, much more us versus them.
Let's try and like beat
up whatever we can.
And I think that's, and I think that's
part of the growth of D&D, right?
Like, I don't wanna say teenagers
(06:14):
are more adversarial, right?
But it's, competitive thing.
You wanna, you know, be the best
at something or you wanna do
the most damage at something.
You see it in video games and stuff
too, when you've got like leaderboards
and everything, it's no different.
So I really just think it's kind of a life
stage thing rather than an edition thing.
The giant Shark Bowl ooze moves its
whole genre of Monster away from
a sort of gotcha style of running
(06:35):
the game into a comedy piece.
Yeah, cuz it's like the
dungeon master gotcha.
But then you're also like, I can't be mad.
It's a shark inside of a news and
the shark is eating me right now.
Like I did literally just fall for that.
Um, and I think that's kind of what
we like to do with Kobold Press
is a lot of our monsters is we
like them to be fun and flavorful.
So you can kind of like, so even the ones
(06:56):
that aren't the goofy giant sharks, right?
You can still see kind of the story of it.
You can see the place that they fit
in the world and they're just gonna
be fun and challenging encounters.
Right?
Lucas (07:07):
In just a minute, Megan
will give you her best advice
as an editor of Monster books on
Using Monsters Better in Your Game.
But first, let me say thank you
for listening to Making a Monster.
If you like what you've heard
and you wanna support the show,
please leave a rating or a review
on the podcast app of your choice.
Spotify recently introduced a five
star rating system to its interface.
You can find it on the podcast page
(07:28):
just under the show description.
It's a small thing, but it does
help new listeners discover the
show and really makes a difference
for me moving forward as a creator.
And if you really appreciate my
approach to Monster Design, you can
check out my book, Book of Extinction,
resurrecting Extinct Animals as Monsters
for your Fifth Edition Tabletop Game.
You can pre-order now and get the first
(07:49):
130 pages of it immediately when you
order at MageHandPress.com/extinction.
That's MageHandPress.com/extinction.
And lastly, if you're at Gen Con
this year, don't forget to visit.
I'll be at the Mage Hand
Press booth number 25 63.
See you there.
Now Megan, what's the number one
thing you want Dungeon Masters
to do to use monsters better?
(08:11):
I mean, I'm not the pioneer of this.
There's a guy who wrote a whole book
on it, but think like the Monster,
like what do the monsters think about,?
You know, cuz they're not
just bags of hip points.
They're not just teeth that's hungry.
Right.
You know?
Sure.
It might be a lion coming after you,
but it also might have not eaten in
a day or it might have cubs nearby.
Right.
You know, bears that attack people
don't just attack people randomly.
It's usually cuz there's cubs nearby.
(08:32):
Right.
And I think people forget that
with monsters cuz they see it
as just something big and scary.
So really just think about
what the monsters think.
And I, I know there's a gentleman
that wrote a book on it and I
cannot remember his name for
the life of me, uh, Keith Ahman.
Yes, Yes.
The monsters know what they're doing.
Right, Exactly.
It's, it's wonderful and it's
a great concept to think about.
Right.
Like, cuz the monsters do, they
(08:52):
are living, breathing creatures.
I mean, oozes are kind of, and
undead don't breathe, but yeah.
You understand what I mean?
You get it.
You get it.
Excellent.
This episode of Making a Monster is
(00:01):
brought to you by the Book of Extinction.
Pre-order now at
magehandpress.com/extinction.
Megan Maricle (00:09):
At first it just looks
like a room with a treasure chest in it.
So it's more like, Hey look,
there's cool treasure over there.
You open the door, just
step right into it.
It's fine, it's fine.
There's no trap at all.
Cause you know, when they see the
treasure chest, they're gonna expect
ya know the treasure chest is either
a mimic or it's trapped or something.
They're not gonna expect that
the ooze is filling the room and
(00:29):
they just stepped into the ooze.
Now you're inside of a, an ooze that has a
shark that swims around and bites people!
Lucas (00:36):
Hello and welcome
back to Making a Monster.
I'm your host, Lucas Zellers,
author of Book of Extinction now
on pre-order and coming soon in
hardcover from Mage Hand Press.
I'm going to Gen Con again this year!
The best four days in gaming are in
Indianapolis from August 3rd through
sixth, and if you're coming to the
convention, I'd love to meet you.
Just stop by the Mage Hand
(00:56):
Press booth number 2563.
I'll probably be there.
In honor of my second year at the
Con, I wanted to share this episode
I recorded during Gen Con 2022, where
I was introduced to Megan Markle.
Megan Maricle (01:08):
Hi.
I am Megan Maricle and I'm one
of the editors at Kobold Press.
I first came on board working
on their Monster books,
doing the editing for those.
Lucas (01:15):
We connected over the
Creature Codex, literally
I held a mic over the book.
Kobold Press has published three volumes
of the Creature Codex since 2013.
I asked Megan, which of her
monsters made her most proud.
Megan Maricle (01:27):
Well, I'm
proud of all of them.
I worked a lot.
That's like asking a parent
to choose their favorite
child, like that is not fair.
I mean, every parent has a favorite,
but you can't actually ask them that.
Like, goodness gracious.
Um, well, let's see if we're looking at
things that are kind of underrepresented,
the Creature Codex has the giant Shark
Bowl ooze, which is a lot of fun.
(01:49):
I know this is like audio only, but
you can at least see the picture.
Lucas (01:52):
I can.
If you don't know, oozes are one
of 13 creature types in the fifth
edition Monster manual, which
describes them as gelatinous creatures
that rarely have aff fixed shape.
They're mostly subterranean dwelling
in caves and dungeons, and feeding
on refuse carrying or creatures
unlucky enough to get in their way.
The most famous ooze, I would argue,
is the one that conforms its shape
(02:14):
to occupy the most volume possible.
In dungeons with rectangular
corridors, it assumes its most
recognizable form the gelatinous cube.
In sewers, it would become a
cylinder as it pushes through pipes.
However, it might also respond to
strange magic and form a kind of
aquarium for another large predator.
I asked Megan where oozes
(02:35):
generally fit in the structure
of a Dungeons and Dragons game.
Megan Maricle (02:38):
Well, a lot of people I
know use oozes kind of as traps, right?
Because oozes are not very
intelligent creatures, generally.
We do have one ooze that's kind of smart,
but for the most part, yeah, they're
meant to be this kind of force of nature.
They're kind of like the garbage
disposals of the dungeons and stuff
like that, but they're usually in, in a
kind of like trap oriented type thing.
(03:00):
You're usually used them as
a, Oh, this thing is here.
you stumble into it or it falls from
the ceiling, or something like that,
because they're not the brightest
and they're usually predators, but in
that kind of slow walking towards you
death, like, you know, Jason Vorhees
or something, they're not, they're
not like the cat that's gonna pounce
around you from the corner, you know?
So if I remember correctly, 2018
(03:21):
was when this book came out.
So please forgive my terrible memory,
but I believe the Giant Sharks was
actually something a backer submitted.
And we're Kobold Press, we don't do a
ton of goofy monsters, but we do like
some fun ones occasionally, right?
We have a "swol-bold,", so, We do like
some, some goofy stuff occasionally, but
yeah, so the giant shark bowl ooze just
made the whole judge's panel chuckle.
Uh, so they're like, All
right, you made us all chuckle.
(03:42):
Fine.
You'll put it in the book.
Lucas (03:44):
Writing the mechanics for this
Monster followed exactly the template
you would expect Fusing two existing stat
blocks to create a symbiotic relationship.
Megan Maricle (03:52):
It has to have
everything crunched up first,
and that's what the shark is for.
It does all the crunching.
We've had some people make miniatures
of it, so it's very impactful for
some, if they make like fishbowls
and they put like resin and stuff
in it with the shark inside of it.
, People are excellent.
I, I love people.
Lucas (04:06):
What was the first
edition of D&D that you played?
Megan Maricle (04:08):
First
edition that I played?
I played second edition,
Dungeons and Dragons.
I played in 1994.
I was, oh gosh, eight years old.
And uh, my parents both played,
my mom and my stepdad both played
and they were big fans of D&D.
They had a big group with
their college friends.
And, uh, I thought that it was just that
(04:30):
boring, grown up game, you know, in the
same way that like, when you're watching
movies, you see like the dudes around
the poker table, smoking and drinking
and just playing poker, and you're like,
Oh, that's the boring part of the movie.
Right.
Uh, and I was like, D&D just have
boring things that my parents do.
But then a book released that year, um,
it was either 94 or 95 that it released.
It was called Council of Wyrms.
(04:51):
And my, yeah, my parents were like, Hey,
because we move, we had moved further
out in the country, so they were away
from their friends and they're like,
Okay, well let's get the kids to play.
And we were both like, That's
the boring, grown up thing that's
like just as boring as poker.
Why would do that?
Um, and they were like, Well,
you could play a baby dragon.
And I was like, There's
dragons in this game.
(05:11):
Uh, so I've been playing
ever since myself.
So part of the reason I ask is that I
have heard in older editions that there
was a more adversarial relationship
between Dungeon Master and player.
Is that part of your experience
and do you think that oozes are
indicative of that in any way?
I don't think that that is edition based.
I actually think that's more of
(05:32):
the age of the players based.
Cause when I played as a kid,
my parents were in college and
they were playing with kids.
So we never had an
adversarial relationship.
It was all about telling a fun story.
Right.
One of my first encounters in D&D
was I was a dragon, polymorphed,
attempting to go help a village.
But I had to pretend that I didn't
know anything about human customs.
(05:52):
And that was the kind of fun we had.
We never had an adversarial
relationship or anything like that.
It was all meant to just be what story
we wanna tell, the fun we wanna have.
But later, when I played in
high school with my high school
friends, it did become much more
adversarial, much more us versus them.
Let's try and like beat
up whatever we can.
And I think that's, and I think that's
part of the growth of D&D, right?
Like, I don't wanna say teenagers
(06:14):
are more adversarial, right?
But it's, competitive thing.
You wanna, you know, be the best
at something or you wanna do
the most damage at something.
You see it in video games and stuff
too, when you've got like leaderboards
and everything, it's no different.
So I really just think it's kind of a life
stage thing rather than an edition thing.
The giant Shark Bowl ooze moves its
whole genre of Monster away from
a sort of gotcha style of running
(06:35):
the game into a comedy piece.
Yeah, cuz it's like the
dungeon master gotcha.
But then you're also like, I can't be mad.
It's a shark inside of a news and
the shark is eating me right now.
Like I did literally just fall for that.
Um, and I think that's kind of what
we like to do with Kobold Press
is a lot of our monsters is we
like them to be fun and flavorful.
So you can kind of like, so even the ones
(06:56):
that aren't the goofy giant sharks, right?
You can still see kind of the story of it.
You can see the place that they fit
in the world and they're just gonna
be fun and challenging encounters.
Right?
Lucas (07:07):
In just a minute, Megan
will give you her best advice
as an editor of Monster books on
Using Monsters Better in Your Game.
But first, let me say thank you
for listening to Making a Monster.
If you like what you've heard
and you wanna support the show,
please leave a rating or a review
on the podcast app of your choice.
Spotify recently introduced a five
star rating system to its interface.
You can find it on the podcast page
(07:28):
just under the show description.
It's a small thing, but it does
help new listeners discover the
show and really makes a difference
for me moving forward as a creator.
And if you really appreciate my
approach to Monster Design, you can
check out my book, Book of Extinction,
resurrecting Extinct Animals as Monsters
for your Fifth Edition Tabletop Game.
You can pre-order now and get the first
(07:49):
130 pages of it immediately when you
order at MageHandPress.com/extinction.
That's MageHandPress.com/extinction.
And lastly, if you're at Gen Con
this year, don't forget to visit.
I'll be at the Mage Hand
Press booth number 25 63.
See you there.
Now Megan, what's the number one
thing you want Dungeon Masters
to do to use monsters better?
(08:11):
I mean, I'm not the pioneer of this.
There's a guy who wrote a whole book
on it, but think like the Monster,
like what do the monsters think about,?
You know, cuz they're not
just bags of hip points.
They're not just teeth that's hungry.
Right.
You know?
Sure.
It might be a lion coming after you,
but it also might have not eaten in
a day or it might have cubs nearby.
Right.
You know, bears that attack people
don't just attack people randomly.
It's usually cuz there's cubs nearby.
(08:32):
Right.
And I think people forget that
with monsters cuz they see it
as just something big and scary.
So really just think about
what the monsters think.
And I, I know there's a gentleman
that wrote a book on it and I
cannot remember his name for
the life of me, uh, Keith Ahman.
Yes, Yes.
The monsters know what they're doing.
Right, Exactly.
It's, it's wonderful and it's
a great concept to think about.
Right.
Like, cuz the monsters do, they
(08:52):
are living, breathing creatures.
I mean, oozes are kind of, and
undead don't breathe, but yeah.
You understand what I mean?
You get it.
You get it.
Excellent.
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