June 26, 2023 • 22 mins
An alien shark feeding off the living islands of an alien world, the wave lurcher is a partner in the search for life.
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Music by Jason Shaw at Audionautix.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lucas (00:00):
This episode of Making a
(00:01):
Monster is brought to you by the
Book of Extinction pre-order store.
Sarah Dahlinger (00:08):
the Wave Lurcher is
a creature that has evolved to attach
itself to a giant moving island like
creature called the yango using its
hook-filled suckers, it is able to
attach there, and then it uses a jaw
that can protrude in and out rapidly
(00:29):
to cut off pieces of dead flesh off
of this large island sort of creature.
And Viedat encounters it because
the shoals of Kindichi, the
humanoids of this planet, have
them sort of semi domesticated.
They wash their skins, they feed them
if they're having a lean time, they
(00:49):
keep them sort of near their boats.
And then when they want to find the
moving island creature, the yangos,
they will harness one To a tiny raft.
One of the reasons I call them
wave lurchers is because another
word for a greyhound is a lurcher.
So if you picture a hound and a
hare, they take the wave lurcher,
(01:09):
they tie it up to a tiny raft and
they're like, okay, go find the prey.
And they're super fast and
they head out across the water
very, very quickly and agilely.
And then they can find this
large island like creature.
And then once they're there, they
attach themselves, they have a nice
meal, and then the people who are on
the raft can explore the creature.
There's other creatures on there,
there's other food sources on
(01:30):
there, water sources on there.
So the wave lurcher is almost like
the bridge between the people of
the world and the most important
creature in the ecosystem, the yangos.
Lucas (01:45):
Welcome back to Making a Monster.
This is my first episode after
the conclusion of the Book
of Extinction Kickstarter.
So I wanna say a quick thank you
to the 2,309 backers who brought
to life this Monster Manual of Ex.
Think species.
As designer and audience, we have embraced
creatures rooted in the interconnected
ecologies of our own natural world
(02:06):
and the choices we've made about them.
So for animals made monstrous and
magical, I'm very pleased to bring
you another conversation with a
designer who shares that naturalist
philosophy, and for this episode.
Let us carry you to worlds beyond
the stars with Astra Fauna:
Expeditions, a story filled art book
where every chapter showcases the
(02:26):
adventure of an alien scientist who's
exploring life on a far off planet.
Sarah, welcome back.
Sarah Dahlinger (02:33):
Thank you.
Happy to be back.
Lucas (02:35):
It's been a while.
It's been a hot minute.
Sarah Dahlinger (02:38):
It has, it has,
and like a whole lot of stuff
has gone on in between then.
Lucas (02:42):
We last interviewed at GenCon 2022.
So I know I've asked you this
before and gotten the answers, but
please introduce yourself again.
Sarah Dahlinger (02:51):
Yeah, sure.
My name is Sarah Dahlinger.
I am a creature concept sculptor largely,
but I also do illustration and I like
to focus on, the biology of the creature
and getting a make believe creature
to have anatomy that would make sense.
And then on top of that, because
people wanna hear the stories
of the creatures and stuff like
that, I also do a bit of writing.
(03:11):
So to tell the tale of
the things that I make.
Lucas (03:14):
You've worked for Wizards on
D&D; you've worked for Metal Weave
Games, which was how we last got in
touch; Evil Hat, the Monster of the
Wee k people; Monty Cook; Paizo,
even the National Park Service.
So basically all of the
things that I like to do.
If I were to encounter your work in
the wild, how would I be able to tell
"that's a Sarah Dollinger piece"?
(03:35):
, Sarah Dahlinger: I think nowadays
when people see my work in the
wild, they generally are attracted
to that it's a unique monster.
When I was at GenCon, the one that we
spoke at, I had a number of ADs stop by
and they were like, wow, this is like
a creature that I've never seen before.
And then the second thing that people
often to me is that because I work a
(03:58):
lot in ZBrush, a lot of my stuff is
like, it looks very highly detailed.
Painting all the details, whew,
that's a ton of work, but you can get
'em a little bit easier in ZBrush.
So, my work tends to be
really, really highly detailed.
When did you start playing
tabletop role-playing games?
Or were you a player before
you illustrated for them?
Sarah Dahlinger (04:18):
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, it was really funny.
I was in high school and my best friend
at the time, her older brother had like,
I don't know, a second edition rule book.
And I was like, oh, this is super cool.
And I could find no one to play with me.
So I just like, I, so I just read it.
And then because I was
introduced with that.
That was the time the 3.5 Monster
(04:41):
Manual came out and I bought that
before I ever played any D&D.
I still have it.
It's so well loved.
It's like it's falling apart.
I used to just stare at the
pictures, just for hours and hours.
So then, you know, I graduate high school,
I go to college, I meet my roommate,
and my roommate had this brilliant plan.
They're like, all right, I'm
(05:02):
gonna end up with a single room.
I'm gonna scare this girl away.
I'm gonna tell her that me and my
friends all play Dungeons and Dragons.
So she comes up and like we're
Dungeons and Dragons players.
And they're like, oh man,
she'll, she'll run scared.
And I was like, yes.
I was like, I have been looking
for a group for four years.
(05:22):
So, and they were like, oh,
well, do you wanna play?
So we still came to this day
Lucas (05:29):
wow, that that story ends
about as well as it possibly could.
I think
Sarah Dahlinger (05:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean, it's, been great.
Lucas (05:36):
where does Astra
Fauna fit in this story?
Sarah Dahlinger (05:39):
Every time you make a
big personal project, I find that it's
like one of those things, it's an itch you
need to scratch or the project that your
12-year-old self wished you had, I find.
So that's what Astra Fauna started as
is I really wanted to do a book that
showcased my full range of abilities.
So I wanted to show like, you know,
(06:00):
I can take a 2D concept and I can
iterate on that and I can make a
monster and then we can do a 3D
concept and you can iterate on that.
And that was how I wanted to do art wise.
And originally the book was
almost like 90% art focused.
And then I found that I had another
book that was more story focused, and I
(06:20):
found that people were identifying and
appreciating the story focus book more.
And so I was like, oh, okay, we'll
just write stories to go with all
this art that I wanted to make.
And that's sort of how the two
blended together to make Astra Fauna.
Each chapter has a new
planet and a new protagonist.
And when you go to the next chapter,
(06:43):
you get kind of an intro to the
new protagonist, what they're all
about, and then what they're doing.
I stopped counting at 230 images,
um, for the, for the book.
There was like, I think one
more chapter to go after that.
And I was like, you know
what, we're, we're good.
I'm not gonna count anymore.
And so , the images have like
field notes next to them too.
So you have your main story
(07:04):
column and then your field notes.
The stories are very wide
ranging too because, like they're
definitely out there to do science
in space, but, stuff comes up.
So it's some are very light and
some are a little bit more heavy.
Lucas (07:17):
would you call this
speculative evolution?
Looking at this project, it reminds me
a lot of, uh, Netflix's alien worlds.
And I'm trying desperately to find,
maybe you can help me with this.
I'm trying desperately find the, the
author that like, first triggered
speculative evolution in my brain.
Um,
Sarah Dahlinger (07:35):
Oh, I
know what you're talking
Lucas (07:36):
you're, you know what I'm talking
Sarah Dahlinger (07:37):
yes, and
I know the name, I know the
Lucas (07:38):
it Larry Niven?
It's not.
Sarah Dahlinger (07:41):
We can,
Lucas (07:41):
Yeah, I'll, I'll find it
Sarah Dahlinger (07:44):
Yeah,
Lucas (07:49):
the Darwin or the Beagle.
And I can't.
Sarah Dahlinger (07:51):
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot.
I know.
I know what you're talking about.
And people are like, oh my God,
your work reminds me of this guy.
And I looked at it and I was
like, oh, that guy's cool.
And.
Lucas (08:01):
So you're in great company.
So let's pick one as a standout.
What is the
Sarah Dahlinger (08:07):
So the wave lurcher
is one of my favorite creatures because
it's from, I think, my favorite chapter
for creature development out of the
whole book, I mean, I like it all,
but the mostly water only world with
a few islands was really fun to do.
The wave lurcher is based off of a shark.
It's a shark alien that has adapted
(08:27):
to, latch onto these massive,
massive like moving islands sort
of things that are called yangos.
Because the yangos are so
big, like, really, really big.
And because they dive, so like
a lot of people when they make
like the moving Island character,
they just kinda stay at the top.
Mine will dive periodically
and like erase all life on it
and then it has to start again.
(08:48):
And that's sort of part of the evolution
of the world and how that world works.
The wave lurchers have multiple, like
suckers on their fins and they have a
protrusion on their face that has suckers.
And then, I pulled in some squid
anatomy to have the suckers have
like little teeth on them too,
so they can really hold on there.
Then for its mouth, I kind of pulled
in some anatomy from the goblin
shark and the cookie cutter shark.
(09:09):
So It'll latch onto these giant beasts.
But these giant beasts
they have, like dead skin.
And it needs to come off.
So they serve a purpose.
They feed off of the dead skin on this
giant creature and therefore help keep
it healthy and they help prevent it
from getting diseases from getting into
that wounded flesh or that dead flesh.
So they're actually like a
(09:29):
really important part of the
ecosystem of the world as well.
But they are kind of terrifying looking.
Lucas (09:37):
One of my favorite questions is
asking the visual and literary influences
that go into a given monster, and it's
rare that they're all so clearly defined
in the way that you've defined them.
And it's rare that they're all biological.
Sarah Dahlinger (09:53):
That's sort of how
I make all my creatures, and I'm
not gonna say that I invented it.
The person I was taught, that
taught me all this is Terryl
Whitlatch and she did a lot of the,
monster development for Star Wars.
I took her class on
Lucas (10:06):
No kidding.
Sarah Dahlinger (10:07):
absolutely amazing.
And so she teaches that technique
where you look at the natural world,
all naturally occurring animals,
and then what you do is you think
of what you want the creature to do.
Like, okay, so I want a
shark, I want it to be fast.
I want it to be able to suck onto this
like whale like thing, and I want it to
(10:29):
be able to easily feed off of dead flesh.
So then that's your, your brief
and then you go into biology and
you're like, okay, what animals
that always already exist, do that?
And then you kind of pick and
pull little features and then you
sort of blend it all together and
that's how you get a creature.
It's really fun to do.
It is.
It's super fun.
Lucas (10:50):
Most of the people I talk
to are designers first and artists
second, if they are artists at all.
So this is a really new approach from
what I've heard on the show so far.
Sarah Dahlinger (10:59):
Oh, cool.
Lucas (11:00):
Coming to the game design portion
of this though, you put together system
neutral stat blocks for this thing.
What did you learn from writing system
neutral stat blocks for these monsters?
And how's that helpful for game masters?
Sarah Dahlinger (11:09):
It's funny, I thought it
would be really hard, but for me, because
I'm a player, it was essentially the
system neutral stat blocks just kind of
has to tell you how big it is, how fast
it is, how strong it is, how smart it is.
Does it have a personality?
Like does it have a Charisma score?
And because you take so much time sort
of developing them almost from the
(11:30):
inside out, it was not hard to really do.
And um, oh, the other thing too, and
this was actually really fun, is all my
system neutral stat blocks contain hooks.
So how you could implement them
into, so writing those was super
fun because I'm like, you couldn't
encounter this creature this way.
Or maybe, you know, this guy
needs help with this, or, or it
could be stuck here or something
(11:51):
like that so those are fun to do.
Lucas (11:54):
I wanna circle back a bit and hit
the framing device that you've got here.
These are all travel logs or field
notes from different point of view
characters, different alien scientists.
So tell us a little bit about
Kindichi the World and Viedat,
the scientist who's working on it.
Sarah Dahlinger (12:10):
Yeah, so Kindichi
is A planet that's filled with water.
But because I wanted the focus to
be on these moving island creatures,
the yangos, Kindichi actually has
very, very little actual islands.
It's just like if the water
levels were super high.
So the only islands are the very tippy
tops of like their highest mountains.
And um, Viedat is a she
(12:33):
looks like a space bug.
And one of the things I wanted to
explore with her, and actually one of
the things I kind of like to explore
with my work in general is just because
something might look a certain way
doesn't mean they are a certain way.
So like a great example with
our own present world is a bear.
If you were an alien that came
(12:53):
down and saw a bear, you'd be
like, that looks super cuddly.
that looks like I could pet it if
you didn't know what a bear was.
Right?
And like, you know, if you know
that if you walk into the middle of
the forest and try and pet grizzly
bears, it's not gonna go great.
So that's one of the things I was
exploring with Viedat is like she
is a bit insecure and very smart and
(13:14):
super nice and really wants to make
friends with people and looks like
a horrifying space insect, you know?
Lucas (13:22):
So a bear in reverse.
Sarah Dahlinger (13:24):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Her mouthpieces are
obviously like a bug mouth.
So she has, she makes these little
drones to solve various problems for her.
So she has one that talks for her and
she has one that helps her scan like the
oceans for creatures and stuff like that.
So she has stuff to help, they
help her in her daily life and they
help her in her scientific job.
(13:45):
So she comes to this, planet because,
um, she can fly and she's pretty
good at it, but the planet is just
so, so, so vast, is that she keeps
failing and she can't find anything.
And if you watch any nature
documentaries, I just watched one
they're trying to find a pod of
orca, like a specific pod of orca.
It took them like two years to find this
specific pod of orca and because like our
(14:06):
own oceans are vast and this planet's,
oceans are even bigger than that.
So, She's just failing and failing.
And then she stumbles upon the,
um, so my humanoid characters for
that are these essentially they're
all bards, so they're really fun.
Their entire culture, their entire
culture is different sorts of bards and
they're different types of fish people.
(14:27):
they're called the shoals of Kindichi.
So we have the REI is like
their sort of like ray people.
And then we have like an eel
type person and stuff like that.
The Ray Risi, they're all storytellers.
And then you have one that
they're all like dancers.
And then you have another
one that do like beat poetry.
Um, another one that
like only does tragedy.
So the neat thing with interacting
with them is you can go on a whole
(14:47):
bunch of neat adventures, but you have
to essentially pass various trials
and they're all different and they're
all like, sort of performance based.
Um, so it can be a neat thing
to dovetail into a home brew
campaign that you're maybe running.
But anyway, she enc encounters this
group of people, the Shoals and She talks
(15:08):
about getting to know them and there's
a period of time where she's sort of
like, Hey, I'm here to study your planet.
And they're sort of like,
maybe you're sketchy.
And she's like, I'm actually really not.
And you know.
So they become friends and
eventually they help her find the
things that she needs to find.
Lucas (15:25):
So tell me about
Vita and the Wave Archer.
How does she, how does she encounter this?
And if you can, this, this I think
might be the thing that I cut into
the, the front of the episode.
So I don't know if you remember this
from the last time we, we talked,
Sarah Dahlinger (15:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember this.
We were talking about the, the shoe crock
Lucas (15:42):
Yeah.
Still have that book on my shelf.
Sarah Dahlinger (15:45):
oh, nice.
That's awesome.
Thank you.
Lucas (15:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
Looking at the wave lurcher,
what does this tell us about
the world that we live in?
Does this help us understand anything
about how we live or how we should?
Sarah Dahlinger (15:58):
One of the things that
I try to do with the entire book, this is
prevalent in every chapter in Astro Fauna,
is I sort of made it nicer than our world.
Like, yes, there's problems, and yes,
there's strife, but in pretty much every
chapter, humans might have chosen to be
(16:20):
cruel to this animal, but they weren't.
Or if it was a human, they might have
chosen to be racist at this moment,
but the people in Astra Fauna weren't.
With the wave lurcher,
they treat it very well.
Like they don't try to make
it something that it's not.
And I'm not saying there
isn't domesticated creatures
in Astra Fauna, there is.
(16:40):
It's just, in any time that you have
a situation where a human could have
done it poorly, I try to make the
creatures in Astra Fauna do it well.
I guess it was a bit of a response
to most of the time I was writing it
during the pandemic and I just sort of
wanted a nice place for me to go and.
I just sort of needed to make
(17:01):
myself like a little oasis.
at any point in time, like when I
have a scientist go to a chapter,
they always defer to the native people
and talk to them respectfully and
like I try to make no one a dick.
Basically, you know, it's like that,
that that golden rule of, of being
(17:22):
an artist is, you know, don't be
a dicks and, and no one really is.
It's just,
Lucas (17:28):
Wow.
Sarah Dahlinger (17:29):
yeah.
Lucas (17:30):
Yeah, so much of the speculative
fiction in, in D&D and I'm thinking
of things like cyberpunk and a lot
of the other really central and
paramount, science fiction epics.
Star Trek is one of those ones that
is unusual in that it's optimistic
and it paints its world that way.
It's fascinating to me that you've
(17:51):
made a world that is explicitly
imagined without problems.
Sarah Dahlinger (17:56):
But it's funny
cuz there is totally problems.
Like everyone has a
problem when they go there.
It's just that in general, people
tend to do the right thing.
Lucas (18:07):
Hmm.
So other than like personal
escapism, was there a goal for that?
Was there something you were
trying to get at with this?
Some sort of literary principle
or genre you were accessing?
Sarah Dahlinger (18:17):
Honestly, a lot of it
was just, it goes back to the whole you
wished existed when you were like 12.
And I don't get me wrong,
like I love four Hammer 40 K.
Like I love, I love some really,
really squalid, terrible,
there's no hope sort of thing.
But that's already been done.
(18:38):
Um, so I wanted to do
something that wasn't that.
And part of it, me being.
In the world of Covid, I just didn't
want to make my life any more dark,
so I made it a little bit brighter.
Lucas (18:57):
So tell me about the Kickstarter.
Sarah Dahlinger (18:58):
Yeah, the
Kickstarter, I'm super excited.
It's to launch the hardcover
version of the book.
Oh, I got the samples from the printer.
They're gorgeous.
They're so nice.
It's so perfect.
So the book is a hundred
percent ready to print.
We just need, to buy the printing, costs
(19:18):
and shipping and handling and printing.
Two features of the book.
there's going to be system neutral stat
blocks that you can get for every MPC
and every creature, so you can dovetail
them into your home brew campaigns.
And the other thing that I really
wanted is I had some people who were
close to me, who I started talking to
when I was about two chapters in, and
they expressed that they had a hard
(19:39):
time due to various, like migraines or
troubles with their eyes or whatnot.
They had a tr hard time reading art books.
And so one of the things that I'm doing
with this is I have accessibility features
that comes standard with every book.
So the book will come with a
screen reader friendly transcript.
A transcript that has the dyslexic
(20:00):
friendly font, and an audiobook.
And there'll be two versions of the
audiobook, one with sound effects and
one that's like just stripped down.
Because I want people to be able
to take this world and run with it.
I want everyone to be
able to experience it.
So if you need to have the audiobook
playing and then you're looking
at the pictures, that's fine.
Or if you need to have something,
read the text transcript to you.
(20:22):
That's fine.
All of it, like all the text in
there is accessible and all the
pictures in there are as accessible
as I can possibly make them.
So that's just a standard feature
that comes with all the books.
So the book has five stories, over 230
images, which we've already discussed,
yeah, sta blocks accessibility
features, uh, yeah, hard cover.
(20:44):
And it's gorgeous and we
just need to get it printed.
Lucas (20:46):
What's the fastest
way to get to Astra Fauna?
Sarah Dahlinger (20:50):
So if you wanted to,
you could just write astrafauna.com
into your search engine, and that will
bring you to the Astra Fauna webpage.
And then there's a big button that you
can just click and go to the Kickstarter.
Or if you're just on Kickstarter and you,
you know, went to search in Astra Fauna in
Kickstarter, then it'll pop right up to.
Lucas (21:10):
Thanks for listening
to Making a Monster.
If you like what you've heard and you
wanna support the show, you can leave
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you're on to make the algorithm happy.
You can also join my email list where
new episodes and insider bonus features
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to you immediately, including stat
blocks, art and digital tokens for
(21:31):
your tabletop role playing games.
New episodes are coming out this
summer, including some exciting episodes
of Making, a Monster Extinction,
and if you miss the Kickstarter
for Book of Extinction, guess what?
You can still get the book.
It's on our pre-order store at
mage hand press.com/extinction.
The first 130 pages of the book
(21:52):
are available to you immediately
when you buy from this.
Site and though they are a little rough
around the edges, you will have access to
future updates and the full and complete
version of the book as they are finished.
That's mage hand press.com/extinction.
This episode of Making a
(00:01):
Monster is brought to you by the
Book of Extinction pre-order store.
Sarah Dahlinger (00:08):
the Wave Lurcher is
a creature that has evolved to attach
itself to a giant moving island like
creature called the yango using its
hook-filled suckers, it is able to
attach there, and then it uses a jaw
that can protrude in and out rapidly
(00:29):
to cut off pieces of dead flesh off
of this large island sort of creature.
And Viedat encounters it because
the shoals of Kindichi, the
humanoids of this planet, have
them sort of semi domesticated.
They wash their skins, they feed them
if they're having a lean time, they
(00:49):
keep them sort of near their boats.
And then when they want to find the
moving island creature, the yangos,
they will harness one To a tiny raft.
One of the reasons I call them
wave lurchers is because another
word for a greyhound is a lurcher.
So if you picture a hound and a
hare, they take the wave lurcher,
(01:09):
they tie it up to a tiny raft and
they're like, okay, go find the prey.
And they're super fast and
they head out across the water
very, very quickly and agilely.
And then they can find this
large island like creature.
And then once they're there, they
attach themselves, they have a nice
meal, and then the people who are on
the raft can explore the creature.
There's other creatures on there,
there's other food sources on
(01:30):
there, water sources on there.
So the wave lurcher is almost like
the bridge between the people of
the world and the most important
creature in the ecosystem, the yangos.
Lucas (01:45):
Welcome back to Making a Monster.
This is my first episode after
the conclusion of the Book
of Extinction Kickstarter.
So I wanna say a quick thank you
to the 2,309 backers who brought
to life this Monster Manual of Ex.
Think species.
As designer and audience, we have embraced
creatures rooted in the interconnected
ecologies of our own natural world
(02:06):
and the choices we've made about them.
So for animals made monstrous and
magical, I'm very pleased to bring
you another conversation with a
designer who shares that naturalist
philosophy, and for this episode.
Let us carry you to worlds beyond
the stars with Astra Fauna:
Expeditions, a story filled art book
where every chapter showcases the
(02:26):
adventure of an alien scientist who's
exploring life on a far off planet.
Sarah, welcome back.
Sarah Dahlinger (02:33):
Thank you.
Happy to be back.
Lucas (02:35):
It's been a while.
It's been a hot minute.
Sarah Dahlinger (02:38):
It has, it has,
and like a whole lot of stuff
has gone on in between then.
Lucas (02:42):
We last interviewed at GenCon 2022.
So I know I've asked you this
before and gotten the answers, but
please introduce yourself again.
Sarah Dahlinger (02:51):
Yeah, sure.
My name is Sarah Dahlinger.
I am a creature concept sculptor largely,
but I also do illustration and I like
to focus on, the biology of the creature
and getting a make believe creature
to have anatomy that would make sense.
And then on top of that, because
people wanna hear the stories
of the creatures and stuff like
that, I also do a bit of writing.
(03:11):
So to tell the tale of
the things that I make.
Lucas (03:14):
You've worked for Wizards on
D&D; you've worked for Metal Weave
Games, which was how we last got in
touch; Evil Hat, the Monster of the
Wee k people; Monty Cook; Paizo,
even the National Park Service.
So basically all of the
things that I like to do.
If I were to encounter your work in
the wild, how would I be able to tell
"that's a Sarah Dollinger piece"?
(03:35):
, Sarah Dahlinger: I think nowadays
when people see my work in the
wild, they generally are attracted
to that it's a unique monster.
When I was at GenCon, the one that we
spoke at, I had a number of ADs stop by
and they were like, wow, this is like
a creature that I've never seen before.
And then the second thing that people
often to me is that because I work a
(03:58):
lot in ZBrush, a lot of my stuff is
like, it looks very highly detailed.
Painting all the details, whew,
that's a ton of work, but you can get
'em a little bit easier in ZBrush.
So, my work tends to be
really, really highly detailed.
When did you start playing
tabletop role-playing games?
Or were you a player before
you illustrated for them?
Sarah Dahlinger (04:18):
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, it was really funny.
I was in high school and my best friend
at the time, her older brother had like,
I don't know, a second edition rule book.
And I was like, oh, this is super cool.
And I could find no one to play with me.
So I just like, I, so I just read it.
And then because I was
introduced with that.
That was the time the 3.5 Monster
(04:41):
Manual came out and I bought that
before I ever played any D&D.
I still have it.
It's so well loved.
It's like it's falling apart.
I used to just stare at the
pictures, just for hours and hours.
So then, you know, I graduate high school,
I go to college, I meet my roommate,
and my roommate had this brilliant plan.
They're like, all right, I'm
(05:02):
gonna end up with a single room.
I'm gonna scare this girl away.
I'm gonna tell her that me and my
friends all play Dungeons and Dragons.
So she comes up and like we're
Dungeons and Dragons players.
And they're like, oh man,
she'll, she'll run scared.
And I was like, yes.
I was like, I have been looking
for a group for four years.
(05:22):
So, and they were like, oh,
well, do you wanna play?
So we still came to this day
Lucas (05:29):
wow, that that story ends
about as well as it possibly could.
I think
Sarah Dahlinger (05:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean, it's, been great.
Lucas (05:36):
where does Astra
Fauna fit in this story?
Sarah Dahlinger (05:39):
Every time you make a
big personal project, I find that it's
like one of those things, it's an itch you
need to scratch or the project that your
12-year-old self wished you had, I find.
So that's what Astra Fauna started as
is I really wanted to do a book that
showcased my full range of abilities.
So I wanted to show like, you know,
(06:00):
I can take a 2D concept and I can
iterate on that and I can make a
monster and then we can do a 3D
concept and you can iterate on that.
And that was how I wanted to do art wise.
And originally the book was
almost like 90% art focused.
And then I found that I had another
book that was more story focused, and I
(06:20):
found that people were identifying and
appreciating the story focus book more.
And so I was like, oh, okay, we'll
just write stories to go with all
this art that I wanted to make.
And that's sort of how the two
blended together to make Astra Fauna.
Each chapter has a new
planet and a new protagonist.
And when you go to the next chapter,
(06:43):
you get kind of an intro to the
new protagonist, what they're all
about, and then what they're doing.
I stopped counting at 230 images,
um, for the, for the book.
There was like, I think one
more chapter to go after that.
And I was like, you know
what, we're, we're good.
I'm not gonna count anymore.
And so , the images have like
field notes next to them too.
So you have your main story
(07:04):
column and then your field notes.
The stories are very wide
ranging too because, like they're
definitely out there to do science
in space, but, stuff comes up.
So it's some are very light and
some are a little bit more heavy.
Lucas (07:17):
would you call this
speculative evolution?
Looking at this project, it reminds me
a lot of, uh, Netflix's alien worlds.
And I'm trying desperately to find,
maybe you can help me with this.
I'm trying desperately find the, the
author that like, first triggered
speculative evolution in my brain.
Um,
Sarah Dahlinger (07:35):
Oh, I
know what you're talking
Lucas (07:36):
you're, you know what I'm talking
Sarah Dahlinger (07:37):
yes, and
I know the name, I know the
Lucas (07:38):
it Larry Niven?
It's not.
Sarah Dahlinger (07:41):
We can,
Lucas (07:41):
Yeah, I'll, I'll find it
Sarah Dahlinger (07:44):
Yeah,
Lucas (07:49):
the Darwin or the Beagle.
And I can't.
Sarah Dahlinger (07:51):
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot.
I know.
I know what you're talking about.
And people are like, oh my God,
your work reminds me of this guy.
And I looked at it and I was
like, oh, that guy's cool.
And.
Lucas (08:01):
So you're in great company.
So let's pick one as a standout.
What is the
Sarah Dahlinger (08:07):
So the wave lurcher
is one of my favorite creatures because
it's from, I think, my favorite chapter
for creature development out of the
whole book, I mean, I like it all,
but the mostly water only world with
a few islands was really fun to do.
The wave lurcher is based off of a shark.
It's a shark alien that has adapted
(08:27):
to, latch onto these massive,
massive like moving islands sort
of things that are called yangos.
Because the yangos are so
big, like, really, really big.
And because they dive, so like
a lot of people when they make
like the moving Island character,
they just kinda stay at the top.
Mine will dive periodically
and like erase all life on it
and then it has to start again.
(08:48):
And that's sort of part of the evolution
of the world and how that world works.
The wave lurchers have multiple, like
suckers on their fins and they have a
protrusion on their face that has suckers.
And then, I pulled in some squid
anatomy to have the suckers have
like little teeth on them too,
so they can really hold on there.
Then for its mouth, I kind of pulled
in some anatomy from the goblin
shark and the cookie cutter shark.
(09:09):
So It'll latch onto these giant beasts.
But these giant beasts
they have, like dead skin.
And it needs to come off.
So they serve a purpose.
They feed off of the dead skin on this
giant creature and therefore help keep
it healthy and they help prevent it
from getting diseases from getting into
that wounded flesh or that dead flesh.
So they're actually like a
(09:29):
really important part of the
ecosystem of the world as well.
But they are kind of terrifying looking.
Lucas (09:37):
One of my favorite questions is
asking the visual and literary influences
that go into a given monster, and it's
rare that they're all so clearly defined
in the way that you've defined them.
And it's rare that they're all biological.
Sarah Dahlinger (09:53):
That's sort of how
I make all my creatures, and I'm
not gonna say that I invented it.
The person I was taught, that
taught me all this is Terryl
Whitlatch and she did a lot of the,
monster development for Star Wars.
I took her class on
Lucas (10:06):
No kidding.
Sarah Dahlinger (10:07):
absolutely amazing.
And so she teaches that technique
where you look at the natural world,
all naturally occurring animals,
and then what you do is you think
of what you want the creature to do.
Like, okay, so I want a
shark, I want it to be fast.
I want it to be able to suck onto this
like whale like thing, and I want it to
(10:29):
be able to easily feed off of dead flesh.
So then that's your, your brief
and then you go into biology and
you're like, okay, what animals
that always already exist, do that?
And then you kind of pick and
pull little features and then you
sort of blend it all together and
that's how you get a creature.
It's really fun to do.
It is.
It's super fun.
Lucas (10:50):
Most of the people I talk
to are designers first and artists
second, if they are artists at all.
So this is a really new approach from
what I've heard on the show so far.
Sarah Dahlinger (10:59):
Oh, cool.
Lucas (11:00):
Coming to the game design portion
of this though, you put together system
neutral stat blocks for this thing.
What did you learn from writing system
neutral stat blocks for these monsters?
And how's that helpful for game masters?
Sarah Dahlinger (11:09):
It's funny, I thought it
would be really hard, but for me, because
I'm a player, it was essentially the
system neutral stat blocks just kind of
has to tell you how big it is, how fast
it is, how strong it is, how smart it is.
Does it have a personality?
Like does it have a Charisma score?
And because you take so much time sort
of developing them almost from the
(11:30):
inside out, it was not hard to really do.
And um, oh, the other thing too, and
this was actually really fun, is all my
system neutral stat blocks contain hooks.
So how you could implement them
into, so writing those was super
fun because I'm like, you couldn't
encounter this creature this way.
Or maybe, you know, this guy
needs help with this, or, or it
could be stuck here or something
(11:51):
like that so those are fun to do.
Lucas (11:54):
I wanna circle back a bit and hit
the framing device that you've got here.
These are all travel logs or field
notes from different point of view
characters, different alien scientists.
So tell us a little bit about
Kindichi the World and Viedat,
the scientist who's working on it.
Sarah Dahlinger (12:10):
Yeah, so Kindichi
is A planet that's filled with water.
But because I wanted the focus to
be on these moving island creatures,
the yangos, Kindichi actually has
very, very little actual islands.
It's just like if the water
levels were super high.
So the only islands are the very tippy
tops of like their highest mountains.
And um, Viedat is a she
(12:33):
looks like a space bug.
And one of the things I wanted to
explore with her, and actually one of
the things I kind of like to explore
with my work in general is just because
something might look a certain way
doesn't mean they are a certain way.
So like a great example with
our own present world is a bear.
If you were an alien that came
(12:53):
down and saw a bear, you'd be
like, that looks super cuddly.
that looks like I could pet it if
you didn't know what a bear was.
Right?
And like, you know, if you know
that if you walk into the middle of
the forest and try and pet grizzly
bears, it's not gonna go great.
So that's one of the things I was
exploring with Viedat is like she
is a bit insecure and very smart and
(13:14):
super nice and really wants to make
friends with people and looks like
a horrifying space insect, you know?
Lucas (13:22):
So a bear in reverse.
Sarah Dahlinger (13:24):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Her mouthpieces are
obviously like a bug mouth.
So she has, she makes these little
drones to solve various problems for her.
So she has one that talks for her and
she has one that helps her scan like the
oceans for creatures and stuff like that.
So she has stuff to help, they
help her in her daily life and they
help her in her scientific job.
(13:45):
So she comes to this, planet because,
um, she can fly and she's pretty
good at it, but the planet is just
so, so, so vast, is that she keeps
failing and she can't find anything.
And if you watch any nature
documentaries, I just watched one
they're trying to find a pod of
orca, like a specific pod of orca.
It took them like two years to find this
specific pod of orca and because like our
(14:06):
own oceans are vast and this planet's,
oceans are even bigger than that.
So, She's just failing and failing.
And then she stumbles upon the,
um, so my humanoid characters for
that are these essentially they're
all bards, so they're really fun.
Their entire culture, their entire
culture is different sorts of bards and
they're different types of fish people.
(14:27):
they're called the shoals of Kindichi.
So we have the REI is like
their sort of like ray people.
And then we have like an eel
type person and stuff like that.
The Ray Risi, they're all storytellers.
And then you have one that
they're all like dancers.
And then you have another
one that do like beat poetry.
Um, another one that
like only does tragedy.
So the neat thing with interacting
with them is you can go on a whole
(14:47):
bunch of neat adventures, but you have
to essentially pass various trials
and they're all different and they're
all like, sort of performance based.
Um, so it can be a neat thing
to dovetail into a home brew
campaign that you're maybe running.
But anyway, she enc encounters this
group of people, the Shoals and She talks
(15:08):
about getting to know them and there's
a period of time where she's sort of
like, Hey, I'm here to study your planet.
And they're sort of like,
maybe you're sketchy.
And she's like, I'm actually really not.
And you know.
So they become friends and
eventually they help her find the
things that she needs to find.
Lucas (15:25):
So tell me about
Vita and the Wave Archer.
How does she, how does she encounter this?
And if you can, this, this I think
might be the thing that I cut into
the, the front of the episode.
So I don't know if you remember this
from the last time we, we talked,
Sarah Dahlinger (15:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember this.
We were talking about the, the shoe crock
Lucas (15:42):
Yeah.
Still have that book on my shelf.
Sarah Dahlinger (15:45):
oh, nice.
That's awesome.
Thank you.
Lucas (15:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
Looking at the wave lurcher,
what does this tell us about
the world that we live in?
Does this help us understand anything
about how we live or how we should?
Sarah Dahlinger (15:58):
One of the things that
I try to do with the entire book, this is
prevalent in every chapter in Astro Fauna,
is I sort of made it nicer than our world.
Like, yes, there's problems, and yes,
there's strife, but in pretty much every
chapter, humans might have chosen to be
(16:20):
cruel to this animal, but they weren't.
Or if it was a human, they might have
chosen to be racist at this moment,
but the people in Astra Fauna weren't.
With the wave lurcher,
they treat it very well.
Like they don't try to make
it something that it's not.
And I'm not saying there
isn't domesticated creatures
in Astra Fauna, there is.
(16:40):
It's just, in any time that you have
a situation where a human could have
done it poorly, I try to make the
creatures in Astra Fauna do it well.
I guess it was a bit of a response
to most of the time I was writing it
during the pandemic and I just sort of
wanted a nice place for me to go and.
I just sort of needed to make
(17:01):
myself like a little oasis.
at any point in time, like when I
have a scientist go to a chapter,
they always defer to the native people
and talk to them respectfully and
like I try to make no one a dick.
Basically, you know, it's like that,
that that golden rule of, of being
(17:22):
an artist is, you know, don't be
a dicks and, and no one really is.
It's just,
Lucas (17:28):
Wow.
Sarah Dahlinger (17:29):
yeah.
Lucas (17:30):
Yeah, so much of the speculative
fiction in, in D&D and I'm thinking
of things like cyberpunk and a lot
of the other really central and
paramount, science fiction epics.
Star Trek is one of those ones that
is unusual in that it's optimistic
and it paints its world that way.
It's fascinating to me that you've
(17:51):
made a world that is explicitly
imagined without problems.
Sarah Dahlinger (17:56):
But it's funny
cuz there is totally problems.
Like everyone has a
problem when they go there.
It's just that in general, people
tend to do the right thing.
Lucas (18:07):
Hmm.
So other than like personal
escapism, was there a goal for that?
Was there something you were
trying to get at with this?
Some sort of literary principle
or genre you were accessing?
Sarah Dahlinger (18:17):
Honestly, a lot of it
was just, it goes back to the whole you
wished existed when you were like 12.
And I don't get me wrong,
like I love four Hammer 40 K.
Like I love, I love some really,
really squalid, terrible,
there's no hope sort of thing.
But that's already been done.
(18:38):
Um, so I wanted to do
something that wasn't that.
And part of it, me being.
In the world of Covid, I just didn't
want to make my life any more dark,
so I made it a little bit brighter.
Lucas (18:57):
So tell me about the Kickstarter.
Sarah Dahlinger (18:58):
Yeah, the
Kickstarter, I'm super excited.
It's to launch the hardcover
version of the book.
Oh, I got the samples from the printer.
They're gorgeous.
They're so nice.
It's so perfect.
So the book is a hundred
percent ready to print.
We just need, to buy the printing, costs
(19:18):
and shipping and handling and printing.
Two features of the book.
there's going to be system neutral stat
blocks that you can get for every MPC
and every creature, so you can dovetail
them into your home brew campaigns.
And the other thing that I really
wanted is I had some people who were
close to me, who I started talking to
when I was about two chapters in, and
they expressed that they had a hard
(19:39):
time due to various, like migraines or
troubles with their eyes or whatnot.
They had a tr hard time reading art books.
And so one of the things that I'm doing
with this is I have accessibility features
that comes standard with every book.
So the book will come with a
screen reader friendly transcript.
A transcript that has the dyslexic
(20:00):
friendly font, and an audiobook.
And there'll be two versions of the
audiobook, one with sound effects and
one that's like just stripped down.
Because I want people to be able
to take this world and run with it.
I want everyone to be
able to experience it.
So if you need to have the audiobook
playing and then you're looking
at the pictures, that's fine.
Or if you need to have something,
read the text transcript to you.
(20:22):
That's fine.
All of it, like all the text in
there is accessible and all the
pictures in there are as accessible
as I can possibly make them.
So that's just a standard feature
that comes with all the books.
So the book has five stories, over 230
images, which we've already discussed,
yeah, sta blocks accessibility
features, uh, yeah, hard cover.
(20:44):
And it's gorgeous and we
just need to get it printed.
Lucas (20:46):
What's the fastest
way to get to Astra Fauna?
Sarah Dahlinger (20:50):
So if you wanted to,
you could just write astrafauna.com
into your search engine, and that will
bring you to the Astra Fauna webpage.
And then there's a big button that you
can just click and go to the Kickstarter.
Or if you're just on Kickstarter and you,
you know, went to search in Astra Fauna in
Kickstarter, then it'll pop right up to.
Lucas (21:10):
Thanks for listening
to Making a Monster.
If you like what you've heard and you
wanna support the show, you can leave
me a rating in Spotify, subscribe in
Google Podcasts, or use whatever platform
you're on to make the algorithm happy.
You can also join my email list where
new episodes and insider bonus features
from my guests will be made available
to you immediately, including stat
blocks, art and digital tokens for
(21:31):
your tabletop role playing games.
New episodes are coming out this
summer, including some exciting episodes
of Making, a Monster Extinction,
and if you miss the Kickstarter
for Book of Extinction, guess what?
You can still get the book.
It's on our pre-order store at
mage hand press.com/extinction.
The first 130 pages of the book
(21:52):
are available to you immediately
when you buy from this.
Site and though they are a little rough
around the edges, you will have access to
future updates and the full and complete
version of the book as they are finished.
That's mage hand press.com/extinction.
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