From Manuscript to Bestseller: Inside the World of Publishing with Conni Francini

Join host Erin Brinker and publishing expert Conni Francini as they dive deep into the evolving world of book publishing. Discover the secrets of successful authorship, learn about the challenges writers face, and explore innovative publishing strategies. From children's books to thought leadership titles, this engaging conversation reveals how authors can transform their ideas into compelling stories that resonate with readers. Whether you're an aspiring writer or a book lover, this episode offers fascinating insights into the art and business of publishing.

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Episode Transcript

Erin Brinker (00:00):
Erin Brinker, welcome everyone. I'm Erin

(00:07):
Brinker, and this is the makinghope happen radio show. So glad
to have you with me today, onthis beautiful summer day, I got
to talk about what just happenedin public broadcasting, the
Corporation for PublicBroadcasting, and that is where
the federal dollars that theyput in for NPR and PBS, they go
into the CPB, and then the CPBdistributes it, distributes it

(00:31):
to the various TV and radiostations. So the funding for
that organization has been cut,has been well, they're not
getting any funding anymore, sonow they're shutting down, and
they've been in they've beenaround for, well, since LBJ was
president, so 60 years Crazy,right? So the House of

(00:52):
Representatives passed a $9billion funding cut to public
media and foreign aid lastmonth, 1.1 billion of those
dollars were supposed to go tothe Corporation for Public
Broadcasting, which then wouldthen send it out to the various
NPR and PBS stations, bothtelevision and radio. And, you

(01:13):
know, there was an effort peoplewriting letters, people calling
their congress people,congressmen and women. And it
just didn't matter. See, the CPBhas informed its employees that
the majority of its staff willbe let go as of September, as
the end of September, except asmall transition team who will
remain through January 2026 toensure close out of operations.

(01:35):
So this was created by Congressin 1967 and it has distributed
more than $500 million annuallyto the PBS and NPR stations, and
that's 1500 of them locatedaround the country. And the
Trump administration has justsaid it's too biased. There's no
reason for us to be paying forthis anymore. And he said, No

(01:59):
more. So they've also filed alawsuit. The Trump
administration has filed alawsuit, this is, according to
Reuters, against three boardmembers of the CPB who have not
left their post despite Trump'sattempt to fire them. Perhaps he
doesn't have the power to firethem. Honestly, I haven't seen
the charter, so I have no idea,but it will be interesting to
watch. So if you are a fan ofnonprofit radio, and if you're

(02:20):
listening to this show onterrestrial radio, we're on a
nonprofit station. It is not aNPR station, but it is a
nonprofit station. And you know,please give because that helps
people get the word out aboutwhatever it is they're talking
about, whether it's not profits,public, you know, anything that

(02:42):
you might be interested inhearing about, listening to good
music, all of that. It alsokeeps news local. You know, we
have so much corporate run mediain the in the country. And on
the two stations on which thisshow airs, X 95.7 and kql h,
which is 92.5 both in InlandSouthern California, they play
local there may be some nationalnews, but they also play local

(03:04):
news, and that's reallyimportant. So with that, it's
time for our guest Well, anybodywho knows me knows that I am a
huge bibliophile. Over thecourse of my career, I have
interviewed so many authors Ican't even count, and it's been
such a joy for me. Today is thefirst time I'm interviewing a
publisher, and I am totally fangirling. Connie francini is the

(03:27):
CEO of the of sorrow publishing,a leading hybrid publisher and
Brand Builder, transforming theauthor experience. As a 25 year
publishing veteran, shespecializes in content
development, marketing andpublicity for authors in K 12,
education, business andleadership. With a proven track
record of publishing marketleading and award winning books,

(03:50):
she is dedicated to elevatingthought leaders and their
brands. She is frequently or shefrequently shares publishing
insights through podcasts andindustry events. So podcasts, of
course, just like this one.
Connie francini, welcome to theshow.

Conni Francini (04:05):
Thank you for having me. Erin, I'm so excited
to talk to a fellow bibliophileand book lover.

Erin Brinker (04:11):
You know, I people say that that that publishing,
you know, the people aren'treading any books anymore, and
they're all online. And that isso not true. I know so many
people who just, we get togetherand we talk about books, fiction
and nonfiction. And, you know,people are definitely still
reading

Conni Francini (04:27):
Absolutely, I'm in a book club every every
month, talking with a group ofwomen, reading nonfiction,
fiction, historical books, allkinds of things. And I will tell
you just very anecdotally, wasrecently in New York City rode,
you know, lots of subway rides,and there were a lot of people

(04:48):
on those subways, on the metroreading books, real, physical,
physical printed books. Youknow, standing young people,
older people. It was so excitingto see so for. You know, year
I've been in publishing for solong, and you know, that was
really the message of a whileago. Is, you know, prino, this
is the end of print. You know,print is dying. And, I mean,

(05:09):
that had to be at least 15 yearsago. And here we are today.
Print books are still alive andwell, thank goodness.

Erin Brinker (05:14):
So tell us about who you are. How did you find
your way into publishing?

Conni Francini (05:19):
So I started out my career actually in
journalism. My My undergraduatedegree is in journalism, and
started out in public relationsand kind of the marketing side
of things, and made a segue intothe K 12 education space. And
then ended up, if you picture,sort of a Venn diagram right of
of Publishing and Communicationsand PR on one side and education

(05:42):
on the other. I ended up at apublishing an educational
publishing company, and it wassort of the, you know, best of
both worlds, bringing these twothings together. And spent about
15 years at that publishingcompany, the last seven of which
I served as the editor in chiefand led the whole product
development, you know, bookdevelopment, publishing

(06:02):
department. And really, reallyloved the what I found, I really
loved about it was, it's such acreative process, right? There's
no it's not like making awidget. You know, even though we
had great processes, everything,every project was something new.
There was something new, adifferent aspect and a way to
kind of bring your owncreativity to those projects. So

(06:27):
just love the time that I hadthere. Was so proud of so much
of the work that we had done.
And then, just before covidstepped away and started
launching my own consultingcompany, and then, a year ago,
stumbled across a couple of veryorganic conversations about
published authors experienceswith publishing, and heard a
need and wanted to fulfill theneed. And so that's where my

(06:51):
newest publishing company wasborn.

Erin Brinker (06:54):
Excellent so Soro publishing is really focused on
educators, teaching and thatsort of that that sector.
Because, you know, there thereare massive publishing houses
that have, like the PenguinRandom, Random House, and the
Simon and Schuster etc, thatkind of do everything. But then
there are those that are focusedon particular markets, and yours

(07:16):
is education? Is that correct?
Yeah, education is, is

Conni Francini (07:18):
definitely one of our core focuses. And because
I had come from, you know, I wasa classroom teacher. I was a an
instructional specialist workingwith teachers. So I have that
knowledge of, you know, thataudience, if you will, as well
as having worked at atraditional model, a legacy
model, educational publishinghouse, so can bring that

(07:39):
expertise. And so that's reallywhere that education space
became one of our core areas.

Erin Brinker (07:46):
So how did you land your first author? And what
was that relationship like,

Conni Francini (07:52):
goodness, we have been just so grateful to
worked with. I mean, the firstcouple of authors that we
launched with are folks that Iwas lucky enough to have had
some sort of, you know,relationship with, and being
able to to, you know, reallyshow this is, this is the
experience that we have. This isthe value that we can bring and

(08:15):
and really offering thatdifferent, you know, that
different experience forauthors. So really, what it what
it came down to was, there wasthis segment of of authors out
there who really wanted to do,create something great, right?
Create something of value,create something that was, that
was of quality, and but thattraditional publishing side, you

(08:38):
know, has its benefits. There'sreally some great things. And
for some authors, that's really,you know, the end all goal for
them, but it also has somedrawbacks and limitations and
sources of frustration. At thesame time, the self publishing
side of things has exploded andcreated this whole new path for
authors, which I think is great.
I'm in favor of that I love, Ilove that there are more paths

(08:59):
now for authors, you know, morechoices, more options now than
ever before. And I think thatis, I think that that's a
wonderful evolution in theindustry. For some authors, or
some aspiring authors, thatfeels a bit a bit a bit like a
black hole of, you know, thingsto Google and things to learn.
And, you know, one author hadtold me early on, I'm, I'm sure

(09:21):
I could figure it all out, but Ihave zero, you know, interest in
in doing that. So, you know, Ireally want someone who, who
kind of gets it, who's beenthere and done that, who can
help, you know, be a partner andguide me along the way, so that
that is sort of the the genesisof, like, how those first
authors ended up, you know,coming our ways, because they

(09:42):
really, they really didn't feellike they they fit with either
end of the spectrum inpublishing, and wanted something
sort of in the middle, you know,

Erin Brinker (09:53):
you hear about, and I'm going to use the JK
Rowling example. Then shesubmitted and was rejected, and
said. And was rejected over andover and over again, and when
fun Finally, somebody recognizedhow incredible her book was, or,
you know, the very first HarryPotter book. I mean, it's they
published, and it exploded andand I wonder, you know, people

(10:15):
that the idea of, you know,finding an agent and pitching,
pitching your book, and, youknow, making sure that that it
reaches the right audience andthat that it's edited properly.
And I mean, that process for anauthor that's gotta be
overwhelming for them, thatwhole world,

Conni Francini (10:32):
yeah, so definitely on, you know, on that
traditional side, the the marketoverall, is, is sort of
collapsing, right? There's,there's just a few of these
really big, you know, Legacypublishing houses, and then
there are lots of of smaller,you know, more more niche, more
independent houses, but thosebig legacy publishers, you know,

(10:53):
the people that want authorsthat, you know, want to be the
next. JK Rowling, it's really,it's really tough, you know, it
is really kind of like winning

Erin Brinker (11:03):
the lottery, yeah, comes down to who, you know, I'm
sure

Conni Francini (11:05):
it, it's so one thing that definitely plays an
important role now that thatdidn't before, but is it really
just a big factor now, is, isthe author's platform? You know,
if you are Oprah Winfrey or youare Prince Harry. You know,
there's sure those big houseswant you, because you are known

(11:26):
right you have right platform,and you have a huge visibility,
you have huge marketability.
Almost doesn't matter what youwrite, in a way, because you
have this huge platform. Well,

Erin Brinker (11:36):
it's evidence about what's been put out by
Harry and Megan, which is reallynot been quality at all, and
yet, here they are,

Conni Francini (11:43):
alright, and that's not discounting the work
that those publishing houses do.
But my point is that, you know,I mean, I've spoken with authors
who've said, I've, you know,I've pitched my on my own, or
I've had my agent pitch, and,you know, they've come back to
me and said, We won't do itbecause you don't have enough of
of a following. You don't haveenough of a platform. You know
your social media following istoo low. You're you know, you

(12:04):
don't have a big enough emaillist be one. I'll give a
specific example of of someonewho an author I spoke to early
in this sort of research processfor for this new company, who
had already published with asmaller, but a traditional
publishing house a few years agoand and was ready to come out

(12:24):
with a second book, went back tothat publisher, and they said,
you have to have an agent. Okay,great. She went and got an
agent, and then went with thatagent, you know, back to that
publishing house to pitch thisnew book, and was told, No, not
going to do a second bookbecause you're, you're
following, you know, isn't,isn't big enough. You don't have

(12:45):
a big enough platform. So, andthis is an author who had
already published with them, sothis is a real challenge now,
and this is a conversations thatwe're having with folks who are
like, Oh, I'm, you know, this ismy first book. You know, what
should I be doing? Building yourauthor is really important. No
matter what path you'rechoosing. It doesn't matter what

(13:05):
path in publishing, you know,you end up having a platform is
really important.

Erin Brinker (13:11):
So, and, you know, I think that, and I don't know
how this works, so I'm going toask a question that could be
totally wrong, but the it wouldseem to me that it's the
publisher, it's they're the onesthat have the marketing money.
They're the ones that have themarketing strength. So if
they're not promoting theespecially person who's already
published with them before, ifthey're not promoting that book,

(13:32):
if they're not helping to growtheir author, isn't that their
role?

Conni Francini (13:37):
It is cynical and however comma, as my high
school English teacher sisterwould say, it really is. I think
that's a that's a greatquestion, because that is a
misunderstanding of even thattraditional publishing model.
Yes, the publisher, thattraditional model, part of that

(14:00):
model is the publisher has, youknow, an established identity.
They have, you know, afootprint, they have a customer
base, they have a mailing list,you know, they they have the
ability to reach that audience,right? And that is a value. But
even those traditionalpublishers still expect their

(14:22):
authors to be supporting thebook as well, you know, to be
promoting it on social, on theirown, on social media. They're,
you know, they're, in some, insome cases, a traditional house,
you know, will pay for apublicity tour, or, you know,
author bookstore events.
Sometimes they'll pay for asegment of those, but the author
still is expected to, you know,engage in that promotion and

(14:45):
marketing of that book, just,you know, just as, just as much,
right? Because it's still theirbook. I think the so that, that
misunderstanding, that questionthat you asked is is one that
you. I think, has been a sourceof frustration for some authors
who've been down thattraditional path, right? It's
like, you know, I gave you thisbook, and, you know, you're the

(15:08):
one who really sort of owns the,you know, a lot of the engine
right behind this, and a lot ofthe financial benefit on the
other side, yes, myunderstanding would, you know, I
would think you as thepublisher, are going to be, you
know, kind of the primary driverof that. And they do, they
should do a significant part.
But even in that model, the theauthors really do, you know,

(15:29):
need to be promoting it on theirown. Need to be, you know,
seeking their own opportunitiesand building, building their own
visibility and promoting thatbook as well. Bro, what
promoting

Erin Brinker (15:38):
those things? What do you do if you don't know how
to do that. You're, you know, Imean, I'm thinking of, I've met,
I've talked to a lot of authors,and, you know, they, they're not
the most extroverted group ofpeople. And so I the what if you
don't know how to do that, oryou don't have a team, you don't
have the financial wherewithal,especially with your first book,
to be able to hire people to doit. What do you

Conni Francini (16:01):
do? Yeah. So I was having this conversation
with with the an author theother day, and I said, you know,
the question is, really, wheredo you what would you do on your
own, versus, what would yououtsource? So my answer to this
author was, what are, what doyou feel comfortable with,
right? So, what's the marketing?
The marketing the marketing thatyou can do successfully is the

(16:21):
marketing that you will actuallydo. So if you are not, you know,
maybe you're not the the, youknow, Queen of social media.
Don't try to do that yourself.
But maybe you are, maybe you'regreat at writing, you know,
blogs or about your area ofexpertise. Or maybe you really
enjoy going and speaking to, youknow, small groups in person

(16:44):
that doesn't scare you, right?
And you're really right withthat. Maybe you are, if you're a
children's book author, youknow, you enjoy going out and
speaking to to, you know, tostudents in libraries or in
schools. And so I would say tothose authors, is lean into and
build in the areas where youfeel comfortable, and then, then
you look to fill in the gapswith areas that where you feel

(17:10):
less strong. Right? Then bringsomebody in who, if you don't
know how to use Instagram orTiktok, and you feel like your
audience is on there, getsomebody who knows what they're
doing to help you come in and dothat piece and stay true to kind
of like what your naturalstrengths are.

Erin Brinker (17:26):
It reminds me of the music industry. When you
know the that you bands go in inLA, you're playing the whiskey,
you have to fill up that room.
That's incumbent upon the bandto fill up that room. And so,
yes, you get the opportunity toplay in this amazing venue, it's
amazing, historic venue, but yougot to fill it up. It's not
just, you know, you're there andthey'll all come and so that's,

(17:46):
that's, that's a part of thebusiness that people don't
generally think

Conni Francini (17:52):
about, yeah, that's a great analogy, because
obviously the the event spaceis, is likely to promote that
right in their own social media,through their emailing list,
right? They're going to say,hey, we're going to be having
XYZ band come so they're doingtheir part to promote it. But
you, you know, still, as theperson, as the band coming in,
you also, you know, just asimportantly, need to be
promoting it as well. It reallyis a, you know, it's a, it's a

(18:15):
collaboration, right? It reallyis, and that's how it's going to
be most successful, because,especially now, because there's
so much out there in the market,you know, I forget the
statistic, but there's, I don'tknow, you know, 1000 new titles
on the market every day. Or, Imean, my goodness, but it's,
yeah, it's like a crazy numberof, you know, the volume of

(18:38):
content that's out there is,pretty wild. So you know, you
you're competing with with a lotof other people. So it really
takes, you know, a lot of effortcollaboratively.

Erin Brinker (18:48):
So I'm thinking about nonfiction authors, their
their audience might be easierto define. So if you are writing
a book about special education,and you're, then you're, you're
going to go to reach out topeople who run selpas. You're
going to reach out to people whoyou know, maybe the Inland
Regional or the one of theregional centers in your area.
You're going to reach out togroups that that have kind of a

(19:10):
built in audience and and andmove from there, maybe you are
at an event for them. Maybe youyou'll say, hey, I'll be your
public speaker to free, if forfree, if I could sell my book or
whatever, if you're writingfiction, that's a different
animal, and it may, you know, Iguess I don't know how I would
approach it if, if my book, ifI'm trying to promote my book,

(19:30):
that's a fiction, fiction versusnonfiction,

Conni Francini (19:34):
great question, because it's not, it's not a
cookie cutter. One size fitsall. So on the nonfiction side,
you're absolutely right. You'rereally and we can even back up a
little bit further thinkingabout, you know, why would you
write a nonfiction book ifyou're in theory, that's
usually, oftentimes, least theauthors we're working with. It's

(19:55):
meant to support their business.
Somehow, they're a marketingconsultant. They're. Education
Consultant. They are, you know,they have a leadership coaching
company. They're writing a bookthat is, you know, sort of their
area of expertise, and it worksalongside, you know, speaking
and, you know, coachingprograms, or, you know,
consulting work, that sort ofthing. On that side, you're

(20:15):
really just niching to thataudience, right to your very
point. It's, it's what industryevents are happening, you know,
where, where are these peopleall going to be? Right? You're
marketing specifically to them,and that in that you go into
their trade shows, you'respeaking at their conferences,
that kind of stuff. You'reprobably writing a lot of blogs,
you know, sharing yourexpertise. You're writing guest
articles, you're getting onpodcasts, where those listeners

(20:38):
are going to be. You know thatit's that's really that clear
focus. So on the fiction side,it's more of a general, even
more of a broader general tradeaudience. But you still want to
think about who that audienceis. So did you write a you know,
we don't, we don't reallyspecialize in fiction. But I can
tell you from, you know, fromknowing the space that you know,

(20:58):
if you write a fiction bookthat's geared toward women, you
know, obviously you want to, youknow, where, what social media
platforms do you want to be on?
Right? You're going to be onPinterest, you're going to be on
Pinterest, you're going to beon, you know, going to be on
Instagram, you're going to begoing to, you know, maybe
women's focused events in yourcommunity, right? That's going

(21:18):
to kind of tailor what that whatthat looks like if you write a
children's book, you're going tobe trying to get out to speak
to, you know, do author eventsat schools, to maybe be working
with, you know, kids focused,you know, nonprofits or other
activities summer camps, or, youknow, YMCA programs, or, you
know, literacy programs in a ina large urban city that you

(21:41):
might be able to get a part of.
Get a part of library eventsright there's, we're in
summertime right now recordingthis, and there's a lot of you
know, summer literacy, readingchallenges going on through
library programs and and schooldistricts and things like that,
that you could be a part of. Youknow, you're you're probably not
releasing thought leadershipblogs. If you're a children's

(22:02):
author, right, you're reallywriting, you know, kids focused,
you might be writing morecontests, more giveaways. One of
my favorite children's authorsis Kwame Alexander. I don't know
if you follow Kwame, worked withhim years ago, and one of the
fun things he does is he he doeslike these surprise visits. Oh,
he goes and he so he recordshimself. Remember the old, what

(22:25):
was that old? Those oldcommercials where they would,
they would show up at your doorand give you a million

Erin Brinker (22:32):
dollars. Oh, yeah, that's publishers.

Conni Francini (22:35):
It's kind of like that. So he will record
himself on social media, youknow, going to someone's door
and, you know, and meeting afan, a kid, right? And dropping
in and bringing them a book andtalking with them, and that
these are people. These are kidswho've, you know, asked right,
to be considered for this visit.
But this is so that's the kindof thing you're going to do,

(22:56):
right, as a children's author,right? That's that gets kids
super excited. You know, theywant to be the one who's going
to have their favorite author.
Favorite author show up at theirdoorstep one day and sit and
chat with them for 15 minutes intheir living room. So, oh, that
would be so cool. So cool, Iknow. And I just geek out
watching it, you know, watchingwatching him do that on social

(23:16):
media, because we just see thethe light, you know, the slight
and the kids face when theirfavorite author shows up at
their doorstep. Really, reallycool. So you know that marketing
and promotion, it really needsto be tailored to your audience,
right? So there's no one sizefits all Absolutely. There's no
you have to do X or you have todo Y. You really need to to

(23:39):
choose your promotionalactivities based on your
audience. You're trying toreally, what you're trying to do
is support your audience andbuild your community. Whoever
is, whoever it is that's part ofthat community.

Erin Brinker (23:49):
You know, our marketing in general has become
so individualized that it'sreally about a brand, whatever
that brand is developing,developing a relationship with
its consumers. And it's no Iwould assume that it's exactly
the same in the publishingworld.

Conni Francini (24:04):
Absolutely, I mean, and that's interesting,
because the idea of, you know,what is your what is your brand,
you know, feels a little bit tosome people like a marketing I
don't know, jibber jabber. Youknow what? You know, I wrote a
book. What do you mean? What ismy brand? But it really is. It

(24:30):
really is important for authorsto to be a, I think, be aware
of, you know, what that whattheir brand is, and take some
time to kind of be thoughtfulabout, you know, what their
brand is. Are you, you know? Areyou? Are you friendly and
accessible? You know, are you?
Are you have this, more of this,you know, kind of elusive, sort
of, you know, mysterious brand.

(24:53):
Are you know? Are you thetrusted advisor? You know? Kind
of, what is your your persona,really in that space? Because,
as. I said. But you know, as wewere kind of talking about a few
minutes ago, there's just somuch on the market, yeah,

Erin Brinker (25:05):
there really is.

Conni Francini (25:06):
You have to have a way to to be remembered.
That's what it really is. Yourbrand is really how you want to
be remembered. You know,somebody says your name. What do
people think of? What do theythink about? Right? So, you
know, let's talk about, let'ssay, leadership, non fiction

(25:28):
readers. So someone like, orbusiness, you know, Gary
Vaynerchuk is, you know, verybrash, right, very kind of
irreverent. That's his brand.
Whereas someone like, like JohnMaxwell, who's very, very
focused on leadership, has, hasthat sort of wise, you know,
that sort of sense of like, thethe wisdom, that sense of like

(25:49):
encouragement. And it's a verydifferent they have. Those two
have very different brands, they

Erin Brinker (25:57):
do, and they're going to appeal to different
people. Exactly, that's exactly,right? Um,

Conni Francini (26:03):
yeah, because if you appeal to everyone, you
appeal to no

Erin Brinker (26:06):
one, you appeal to no one, exactly, exactly, then
you begin, you know, because whowants to be a commodity, right?
Then that's that people could,could come and go, like, take it
or leave it. I don't want to bethat person. I want to connect
with the people who are alignedwith

Conni Francini (26:20):
me. Yeah, you kind of want your brand to be,
you want it to be a filter,right? Here's who stays, and
here's, here's who, here's whodoesn't, here's, here's who
goes, right? And that's okay.
And that's okay because ifyou're, if you are for everyone,
you're really for noone. There'snothing, there's nothing sticky
to hold on to, right? That thatreally draws your your your

(26:44):
people, your audience, to you inthe right way. If you were just
some nondescript, you know,leadership person. You know, who
do you anchor those people to?
But you know when I say, when Isay, you know, Jocko willing,
right? Versus John Maxwell.
Those are two completelydifferent, you know, two

(27:05):
completely different brands, andpeople are going to be naturally
attracted to kind of one, youknow, or the other, or someone
else completely. And that'simportant. That's definitely
important.

Erin Brinker (27:15):
So I have to tell you that that you you have kind
of triggered something in me.
There's a lot of people outthere. I go on LinkedIn, and
it's remarkable how many peoplecall themselves visionary and
leaders, and you look at theirpicture like you're look like
you look like you're 25 you maybe amazing, but you have not
been on this earth long enoughto call yourself a visionary or,
you know, whatever. And sothere's a lot of people making a

(27:38):
lot of noise in this space. So,you know, as a as a publisher,
you have to discern, you know,what are you going to what are
you going to take on, and whatare you not? So, what is your
process? If somebody comes toyou and they're, they're ready
to write a book, or they'vealready written a book, and they
want to engage you as apublisher, yeah.

Conni Francini (27:58):
So we are in our hybrid model, we take some
aspects of that traditionalpublishing model, and so we are
submissions based publisher. Sowe don't we don't just publish
anybody who wants to publish abook. We are selective about the
kinds of projects we want towork on and the kinds of authors
we want to work with. So we doaccept submissions through our

(28:22):
website and then evaluate, youknow, the overall marketability.
Why is this book needed? Why isthis book needed now, what makes
this book different or unique,right? And how, how can this
book be successful in themarket. And what is, just as

(28:42):
importantly, why is this authora good fit, right for this book,
and you know, and what do theybring to a potential partnership
and collaboration? I think oneof the unique aspects of of what
we do is we aren't expectingonly to work with the opras and

(29:06):
the prince Harry's of the world,right? We, we are happy to work
with folks who are, you know,earlier in their publishing,
Author Platform journey. But ifthey're if they're committed to
it, and they're reallypassionate about their message
and their work, and really, youknow, building their brand and
building their business, we'rehappy to to build alongside them

(29:28):
as well. So we look at all ofthose factors, and if it's
something that we want topursue, we have a conversation
with the with the author,explore a little bit more deeply
before we would submit and sharea publishing offer with them.
So, so it looks really similarto the traditional model. I
would say it's, it's prettysimilar to that. You know, in

(29:49):
the steps that happened there,we really kind of pulled from
from that process, because wefelt that was important, right
to publish something that wefelt we could really stand
behind as well. So,

Erin Brinker (29:59):
dope. People, do people fit? Have to submit a
completely finished, completelyfully edited, this is ready to
go book, or can they send you asolid draft and then get
feedback from you? How does thatwork? Yeah, that's a

Conni Francini (30:14):
really good question. So there's really kind
of two, two answers to that ourAgain, our focus is really in
this education business andnonfiction space. So in that
realm, secret to share with withwith any listeners out there who
are thinking about this, whetheryou're whether you're pursuing
us, or even even othertraditional publishers or other

(30:38):
hybrid publishing companies fornon fiction, it's actually
preferred that you don't havethe entire book written.
Seriously, yeah, you don't needit. And it's actually better in
many ways, that you don't havean entire book written. What's
more important is that you, as ain submitting your your

(30:58):
proposal, your proposed book,that you actually have a better
what's important is that youhave a good understanding of who
are you writing this book for?
What is the problem that's outthere, right? And this is on the
non fiction space. I'm thinkingthought leadership side, right,
right? What's the problem? Who'sthe audience? What's the problem
you're addressing? Do you knowwhat your competitors are, the

(31:21):
competitor titles that are outthere, and what makes your book
different, and why you Why areyou? You know what makes you you
know a good person to you know,to write about this topic. What
unique things do you bring to itthat hopefully are somehow
aligned to what you think thisbook is, how you think this book
is unique out in the market?

(31:44):
That's actually more important,wow, an outline or a table of
contents, and then usually, youknow, a sample chapter is great,
but there, there actually thethe submissions process is, is
really a product developmentquestion. That's what it is

(32:05):
you're pitching an idea. It'syou're pitching an idea, right?
Why should and so. And I thinkthis sounds a little yucky for
people who are thinking aboutbut this is my knowledge. You
know, this is my expertise. Iget it because, you know, I've,
I've, you know, developed booksand products and things all the
way from the beginning,including things that I was
super, just myself, just super,super passionate about. And you

(32:27):
feel like it's all about theknowledge, but the submission
process is really pitching aproduct, right? Who is it for?
You know, what's the problemthat's out there that you're
that you're aiming to solve? Howis this better than any
competitors that are out there,right? And specifically for a
book, why? You as a nonfictionauthor, right? I couldn't write

(32:48):
a book about, you know, managinginvest investments, right? I
don't have any expertise there,right? That's not my area of
expertise. So having that match,and you'd be surprised. We've
gotten, we've gotten pitchesfrom people who, you know, have
an idea for a book, notnecessarily a bad idea, and I

(33:09):
guess they could write it, butthey're, they're really known
for this other area ofexpertise. It's like, why aren't
you writing this book? You know,this is really where expertise
is, what's the, what's the gapthat's out there, what's the
misunderstanding that you couldspeak about. So that's a great
that's a great question.

Erin Brinker (33:23):
So I have to think that that that process has to be
pretty humbling to the to theauthor, the person who's
pitching to come back and say,you know, Mr. Cust, or Mr.
Author, you know you are anexpert in, you know, marine
biology, and now you're talkingabout special education, where's
the leap? How does that? Howdoes that work? And he's like,

(33:45):
Well, I'm amazing. I have thisgreat career you do in marine
biology, right,

Conni Francini (33:50):
right? It's, it's, and we don't get that a
lot, but we have, and we haveseen that kind of like mismatch
between the author and whattheir their proposal is. But I
think that, you know, to kind ofgo back to your the earlier part
of your question is, you know,what do you do? What does that
look like when they submitsomething? Are we happy to
provide feedback? We doabsolutely. I always tell

(34:12):
authors, you know, I want you tobe less, especially if I have a
conversation with them and theysay, Well, I think I'm not this
idea, you know, is, do you thinkit's worth submitting? And I
tell authors, at least ourperspective, our approaches, I
would rather see your ideaimperfect, and give create the

(34:34):
opportunity, allow theopportunity for for there to be.
You know, Hey, I see what thenuggets are right now, I see the
potential in it, and I I'm lessconcerned with having, you know,
every little element, just sorather than finding potential
somewhere, right because Ilooked at, I mean, I've been

(34:55):
publishing for 20 years, I've, Isay, 1000s, it might be 10s of
1000s of. Submissions. But forsure, 1000s of submissions. My
job is to, that's my that's myjob. That's what I do. I It's my
ability to look at something andsay, actually, you know, it's
not this proposal isn't quitearticulating it the right way.
But yes, this is actually a realissue. I see the, I see there's

(35:17):
something unique in here. We'dhave to hone it a little bit,
but I feel like I see this, youknow, the potential in here.
That's what we bring to it,right? That's as as a, you know,
as a publisher. We we bring thatexpertise and that ability to,
kind of, like, draw out some ofthat. We just need something to
to start from, so to speak. Sohave you ever

Erin Brinker (35:37):
had a customer or a client or a, you know, an
author that you're working with,where they pitched one thing,
and through your conversations,you decided mutually to take it
in a different direction.

Conni Francini (35:46):
Yeah, absolutely. Just did that last
week with someone who's Yeah,who submitted something. And got
on the phone, I was like, youknow, I mean, this is yes, I you
know, I see the potential, butyou know, I've done a little
research on you, and then kindof hearing you talk, you know, I
feel like this, this book is thething, right? This is where it

(36:07):
is. And then the more we kind ofjust talked about it, you can
feel the level of energy, youknow, you have those
conversations, and you feel thelevel of energy kind of going up
and up. It's like, it'sspiraling, right? We're like,
oh. And then this Oh, and thenthat, you know, and then, what
about this? And so, so now, yes,so now we're, we're continuing
that conversation in a different

Erin Brinker (36:27):
I bet that's fun.

Unknown (36:28):
It's really fun. I mean, that's what I said, like,
it's just, it's so creative. Youknow, there's, there is no it.
This is, we're not building awidget. Everything is is
different. Every topic isdifferent. Every author is
different. And it's so fun topartner with folks who are, you

(36:48):
know, really passionate aboutthe work they're doing, the
mission that they're creating,you know, the movements that
they're building and help kindof draw out, you know, what,
what could be the kind of thebest, most exciting publishing
path

Erin Brinker (37:04):
for now. Have you written a book?

Conni Francini (37:07):
I haven't, but we're working on one right now.

Erin Brinker (37:10):
Excellent, yeah,

Conni Francini (37:13):
excellent, yeah,

Erin Brinker (37:15):
you know, you hear the beta reader for me, Yeah,
I'd love to. That'd be amazing.
I would totally do that. I wouldtotally do that. You know, I
think about how many peopledream of becoming the great
American author, you know,whether it's fiction or
nonfiction, and and they sitdown to write. And, you know, in
some, in some ways, writing islike giving birth, right? You
have you. You have to thinkabout, what do you want to say,

(37:35):
and how do you want to say it,and what is that structure, and
what is your tone? And you know,if you're in in the fiction
world, what is your point ofview? Is it first person or
third person? I guess in nonfiction as well, you know, how
do you want to tell that story?
Because really, it's, it's alltell. Still, it's all
storytelling, you know, and thatthat kind of iterative,

(37:59):
iterative process has to be verycompelling and very interesting
to work with authors throughthat. Yeah, it is the,

Conni Francini (38:10):
I love the that word iterative, right? Because
it, it is not a, there is, thereis a somewhat linear process.
You know, you start with zerowords in your manuscript, and
you know at some point that wordcount increases until it's done,
right? So there is some sense ofa linear process, but it is a

(38:33):
creative endeavor, naturally. Soit is sometimes you do, we do
get, you know, five steps downthe road and we go, this isn't
coming together the way weenvisioned. Or now we have this
we somehow stumbled upon thisother, you know, idea or
inspiration, or we uncoveredthis gap. We need to kind of
backtrack a little bit right andto put things back together in a

(38:57):
different way. I think thatprocess is exciting. That's what
I love about it. It can be, itcan be hard for it can be, it
can't you can feel scary. It canfeel like I didn't do it right?
You know, I feel like I made amistake. I don't know what I'm

(39:18):
doing. So, you know, I alwayssay, I've always said to authors
that I've worked with closely inthat editorial process, you
know, my job, from the editorialperspective, is to is to make
you and your book and thiscontent the best that it can be.

(39:39):
So when I'm, you know, I wantyou to just really hold on to
that mindset that every time I'mcoming back with, you know, hey,
I'm not sure this is comingtogether clearly or, Hey, I
think we should, you know, weshould change this character
here. I think we should explainyour framework differently. It's
really with loving care for. Youand your work, right? And it's,

(40:03):
it's so that they don't feellike it's this, the proverbial
red pen, right, right? That'sback in the day, you know,
that's all we use. Was we markedit up with a red pen, and it was
really, you know, it was reallya little bit yucky for, I think,
for

Erin Brinker (40:20):
people to look, yeah, because that's your,
that's your, your heart and soulon that page. It's your baby. It
is, you know, I have read booksthat that it seems when you
know, I'm a linear thinker, andwhen I say, and not that, I
can't think strategically, Ican, but I tend to see, you
know, because I write grants andother proposals and and for the

(40:42):
nonprofit that I work for, themaking hope happen Foundation,
and I'm it's like, where do Iwant to go? How do I want to get
there? And how do I want to tellthat story and that, that you,
you, you have to line for me. Ihave to line that, all of that
up before I can start writing.
I've read books that are, I willsay, disorganized, and I can't
follow them. You know that it isthe tone or the tenor or the or
the cadence is probably a betterword changes with each and

(41:08):
unless you you you're changingthe point of view intentionally,
and you're telling your peoplethat you're changing that point
of view, it just feelsdisjointed. And so that voice
becomes really important in frommy point of view, otherwise,
it's difficult to follow.

Conni Francini (41:25):
Absolutely we, you know, one of the things that
this is one of the reasons,especially on the nonfiction
side, why we tell authors wereally prefer that you you know
that you don't try to write60,000 words on your own because
it's hard. It's hard to do it. Imean, I've 20 years in
publishing, I've never receiveda manuscript that didn't need

(41:46):
editing. Just that's just nothow it works, right there.
That's the value of having, youknow, experienced editorial
support that's going to makeyour work better. An author's
role is to bring theirknowledge, expertise, ideas,
vision, creativity, whatever itis right to that, to that book,
to that project, the on theeditorial side, our job is to

(42:12):
make it better, right? And youneed that. You need that
partnership between, you know,between the two. So, you know,
we prefer actually to again,work with authors before they've
even started to do just what yousaid. Erin, we before we was
telling we're not You're noteven put one word on on the
manuscript. Don't start typinganything until we really have

(42:32):
clear, gotten clear on who isthis audience, right?
Specifically, right, not justwomen, not just executives, not
just, you know, whatevergeneration, right? Not just k 12
educators. There, there's,there's gotta be more. So let's
really articulate, you know, whothat audience is. Let's really
get clear on what the problem isthat we're addressing. You know,

(42:55):
what's the need? Why do we needthis? Why does anybody care that
we need this out here? You know,what is really, truly unique
about, about, you know, youroffering and and specifically in
like, you know, education,business and leadership is like,
what's your solution? Do youhave a framework, or do you have
a model, or do you have a uniqueperspective or a unique

(43:16):
approach? There has to besomething that kind of ties
together your knowledge andinformation. Otherwise, it's
just a book of 60,000 words thatdoesn't mean anyone. And
especially I love that you saidstorytelling, because this is
something that I think is soimportant, especially in non
fiction, where people, I think,as authors, we don't realize we

(43:36):
are taking readers on a journey.
We are a transformation. Andthat sounds kind of fufu in a
way, you know, for what I'mwriting a book about, you know
about social, emotional learningand education, yes, but you are,
you should be taking yourreaders on a journey of you're
here, and this is thefrustration you have, yes,
right? Why you're feelingoverwhelmed, or this is why you

(43:57):
feel like you keep hitting awall, or this is why you, you
know, you keep trying thesethings and they're not working
right. Something is missing, andwe have the answer. So come
along with us and read thisbook, right? And read what we
have to offer. Read what we, youknow, what we what we propose
you do, how you should approachthis instead, in your classrooms
or with your teachers, forexample, and on the other side

(44:18):
of that, you know this ishopefully how you and your your
teachers, or your your schoolcommunity should, should feel
right or be right as a result ofthis. And that's a journey.
That's a story.

Erin Brinker (44:31):
It it totally is, and it's, it's something that I
need to relate to, and it and itthere has to be, it has to be
actionable. There's nothing morefrustrating than reading a book.
And you get to the end, you'relike, I don't know what to do
with that. You know, I want tohave give me steps, meaning, you
know, tell me your stories, tellme your tell me why this is

(44:51):
important, and then tell me howto do it. If you're talking
about, you know, non fiction,and I and the what I'm I'm
thinking of Stephen Covey. I'm ahuge Steven. Heavy fan, you
know, he tells stories of hisfamilies and in a business, and
they're all, they're all, youknow, short vignettes, but there
are things that we can allrelate to. And and he is, he
distilled down these basic sevenhabits into something that

(45:13):
everybody can do, everybody canunderstand, everybody can get
their brain around. And so itwas, you can take something of
what you can you can put it intoaction in your own life right
away.

Conni Francini (45:24):
Erin, are you in my brain? Some of these
conversations that I have withauthors, I actually share seven
habits as a great example withfolks so often, because it's
such a great example of acompelling, effective, impactful
book. Indeed, how many otherproductivities or personal

(45:49):
effectiveness books do you thinkare on the market?

Erin Brinker (45:51):
Oh, 1000s, millions. There's a gazillion,
there's a gazillion.

Conni Francini (45:56):
There's so many, right? There are so many. What
makes this this Seven Habits ofHighly Effective People, so
memorable. What makes it so? Whydo people want to buy this book?
I mean, yes, everyone talksabout it, right? But why? Why
part of it is, he's distilled itinto seven habits. Yes, right.

(46:18):
So there is, and I so I tellauthors, I said, I know this
sounds kind of, it sounds funny,but this is the, this is the
marketing lane of of the kind oftraditional publishing support,
right? That's part of that sideof things that that, I think
authors, they you just like itkind of goes over your head. You

(46:39):
don't quite realize it, right?
And he could have written a bookjust talking about being a, you
know, an effective person, yes,you know, with 1215, chapters.
But he didn't. This book isseven habits, right? What is the
table of contents? I'm justflipping it open right now in my
office. It's the seven habits.

(47:00):
It's the seven habits, andthere's a thought process to why
they're in this order. You know,the first one, the first group
is the internal, right? And thenthe second group is the more
external, and then the seventhone is the sharpening the saw,
which means you go, kind ofcontinue, like through these,
and you continue to make thesebetter. You elevate these,
right? It is so simple and soeasy to remember and so easy to

(47:22):
organize this information forfor readers, this is why this is
a great example. Indeed.

Erin Brinker (47:28):
It reminds me of a cookbook where they say, you
know, using things in your ownkitchen, you can create this
wonderful dish. And the firstthing on there is like yak milk.
And, you know, vegetables pickedin, you know, from Tibet in, you
know, whatever things thatyou'll never be able to find,
and techniques that you're neverable to use, and you're just

(47:48):
like, yeah, I This looksdelicious, but I'm going to have
to go to a, you know, a chef tobe able to get to find out what
this tastes like, because thisis way above my pay grade,
right?

Conni Francini (47:58):
I'm all for practical. I have I tell people
my, you know, my grandparentsare from the Midwest. I have a
very kind of casserolementality. You know, everything
should be practical, everythingshould be doable. Everything
should be actionable. You know,dissertations are for PhD
programs, and that's great. Butthe you know, people reading,
you know, books to to gain newknowledge, whether that's in,

(48:19):
you know, k 12 education, or,you know, business or
leadership, or what have you,they want to learn something,
right? And so to, in myexperience, great non fiction,
thought leadership books, youknow, ones where you're trying
to learn something, they havethree elements. The first is the
why? Why is this important? Whydoes this matter? You know, why?

(48:42):
Why this approach? Sometimesthere's, like, research or
statistics kind of behind that.
And why are you doing thisthing? Why? The second part is
the how, you know, like, What'syour general approach? What are
some of the strategies? Like,how do you approach? How do you
approach this thing? And just asimportantly, we need some of the
what and the what can be thosegreat vignettes so that you can
see an example. Take, you know,education, for example. You

(49:06):
know, here's how you can improvevocabulary for English language
learners. For example, it'd begreat to see a vignette of that,
right, read a vignette of whatdoes that really look like in a
first grade classroom, right? Ifthe book is marketed to, you
know, to secondary well, thenyou shouldn't have a first grade
story in there, right? You'regoing to want example stories

(49:26):
from middle school and highschool, but including those
vignettes gives your readers thewhat, oh, I see what this looks
like, yeah. Or steps, some stepsto follow. Or, I love a good
reflection. I love a, you know,end of the chapter, reflection,
you know, two or three questionsto just really help readers,
like, take a breath and, youknow, reflect on what they've

(49:48):
learned. Maybe take action onone or two really simple steps
to kind of put them in motion.
The best books that I've read,the ones I recommend to people,
the ones I use as a. Examplesfollow that model in some way.
There's no one way to, you know,to bring that together in a
book, but I feel like that'swhere I've seen the most

(50:09):
success. They these, these kindsof books all address the why,
the how in the what, in somecombination that. That
combination, I think, givesreaders the best you know, kind
of learning and transformationexperience.

Erin Brinker (50:26):
So let's shift gears a little bit and talk
about some of the authors thatyou are working on, working with
rather now we've talked toDoctor Danita Grissom on this
show and her high five to thriveand and super excited about
that, but you've got somechildren's books on your
website, a gift called Shane anda dog and his boy the switch.

(50:46):
Tell us about about thoseauthors and tell us about those
books.

Conni Francini (50:50):
Yeah. So I'm so excited that you were able to
chat with with Dr JanitaGrissom. Their their work has
been super, super fun. Muchneeded. Again, I'm a former
classroom teacher, and know thatthat work that they're doing is
so important right now.
Educators are really, you know,really things have changed so
much in education, and they'reunder just a tremendous amount

(51:13):
of pressure, and changehappening so super important on
the the children's book side, wehave just, again, just been so
excited to work with folks who,you know, kind of have a, like a
bigger mission for why they'redoing this, right? There's a
they have a kind of a biggerstory to tell in some way. So a
gift called Shane, for example.

(51:36):
The author is Ricky waters, whoplayed in, I think, two or
three, three different NFL teamswon the Super Bowl with the 49
ers. He wrote this story abouthe actually wrote it originally
as a poem. So he writes poetry.
He was average poetry when hewas a little kid. So he's always
written just for himself. And sothis book was originally a poem

(51:59):
that he wrote about adopting hisyounger son, and it's told
through the eyes of his olderson, oh, you know, hearing from,
you know, mom and dad thatthey're going to be, you know,
welcoming, you know, a newbrother into the family. And you
know, kind of what thatexperience was like through the
older the older brother, he wasstill kid when they adopted the

(52:22):
the younger son, but toldthrough the eyes of of the big
brother about, you know, I'mgoing to get a little brother,
and I'm, you know, so excited,and I can't wait to be the big
brother. And like, show, youknow, protect him and and show
him the way. And, and it's just,so, it's such a lovely, story
and and so well written that heput this, put this together, and

(52:44):
wanted to turn it into achildren's picture book. It

Erin Brinker (52:49):
is beautifully illustrated. Yes, so beautifully

Unknown (52:53):
any Weber did the illustrations on that. She does
a very kind of painterlyquality, which is really lovely.
But, you know, part of this forfor Ricky is it's, you know,
it's their family story, andhe's very passionate about it.
But they also really, he reallywanted to have this story out
there as a way to kind of, youknow, kind of foster more of the

(53:15):
work that he's doing in thefoster community with with other
young people. He's always out.
He himself went through thefoster system as a as a young
boy and was adopted. And so hekind of, you know, he he does a
lot of work in that space withyoung people, and he wanted to
have a story that, really, youknow, shared his own unique
story that he could, you know,tell as part of that work and

(53:39):
help to kind of bring morevisibility to some of these
nonprofits in particular. Soit's been it was really fun to
partner. I bet it was

Erin Brinker (53:50):
fun. It was definitely want to get this. One
of the things I did not mentionis I'm on the board for the
Inland Empire children's bookproject, and we get books in the
hands of kids throughout the 10sof 1000s of books in the hands
of kids throughout the SanBernardino City and Rialto
Unified School Districts. And Ilove stories like this, because,
you know, I think a lot of thestudents that will that will end
up with this book will relate toit and and see themselves in the

(54:15):
book, and how wonderful that is.

Conni Francini (54:18):
Yeah, because this is great story of, you
know, of family and love,belonging, you know. And I think
even, even for anyone who hasn'tbeen in that specific situation,
I think there's so much to take

Erin Brinker (54:31):
away, indeed, yeah, so what about the dog and
his boy the switch?

Conni Francini (54:37):
Yeah, a dog and his boy the switch. This is,
this is so this is such a cutebook. We've just tremendous
response from this one already.
Kids are really loving it. Soit's a middle grades fiction
book, kind of for that third tosixth grade, you know, reading
range. And it's a, it's aTrading Places story. So, you
know, this the movie FreakyFriday. Yes, alright. The reboot
is coming out soon. So it's sortof, you know, the construct of a

(55:00):
freaky Friday between a dog anda boy. So not to do, not to give
anything away, but they througha sort of, you know, mysterious
happenstance. They the dog andthe boy trade bodies. Wow. And
that sounds so good. The dog iswalking around inside, is in the

(55:21):
boy's body going to school, andthe boy is now in the dog's
body, right, sniffing the grassand and, you know, clamoring for
cookies, and all sorts of other,you know, doggy kind of and the
whole, you know, the wholepremise is like, how can they,
how will they get back? How willthey trade back? Right? And so,
of course, they, you know, theyexplores their friendship along

(55:43):
the way of how they are tryingto switch back and, and won't
give away the the ending, butsuper fast read. It's really
fun, really fast paced, Punchy.
Very age, you know, has all thethings that kids that age are
really drawn to, you know, Ithink, as a former classroom

(56:03):
teacher, I would say, if we wantkids to read for fun, want them
to read for enjoyment, let'sgive them something fun to read.
Thank you. This book, just like,right away, you know, boys and
girls. This is not, you know,but this is a fun, funny book
that that really touches on, youknow, again, friendship and
perseverance and family. There'sjust a great little themes in

(56:26):
there. I think that would evenbe valuable in, you know, in the
classroom, right, connecting toother literacy units and things
like that. So,

Erin Brinker (56:34):
yeah, really, absolutely love it. Absolutely,
absolutely love it. Well, we areabout out of time. Connie
francini, tell us. Tell peoplehow they can find you on social
media, how they can find moreabout Soro publishing and, you
know, maybe, maybe write theirfirst book.

Conni Francini (56:50):
Absolutely. As you can see, I love to, I love
to talk book ideas. So if anyonehas you know questions or you
know ideas at all, feel free toreach out to me on I'm on
LinkedIn. You can definitelysubmit any inquiries or
proposals book submissionsthrough our website. It's Soro
publishing, com, S O, R O, thatis Latin for Sister, short Latin

(57:13):
for Sister, by the way. Or we'realso on Instagram, sorrow
publishing, and Facebook andLinkedIn as well. You can follow
us there, and but as I said, I'dbe delighted to to talk to
anyone who who has somepublishing aspirations and wants
a little guidance.

Erin Brinker (57:31):
Well, Connie francini, you are delight. This
has been so much fun, and Ican't wait to read these books,
and there's a lot more on yourwebsite. And thank you so much
for joining me today. Thank you,Erin. It was so much fun, but
that is about all we have timefor today. I'm Erin Brinker.
You've been listening to themaking hope happen radio show.
For more information about themaking hope happen Foundation,

(57:52):
go to www.makinghope.org That'swww.makinghope.org Have a great
week, everybody, and I'll talkto you next

Noraly Sainz (58:01):
week. Hi. My name is Noraly Sainz, and I am
Program Coordinator at upliftSan Bernardino, a collective
impact initiative at the makinghope happen Foundation. And this
is my story in November of 2017my husband, our four young sons
and I moved away from ourfamilies to San Bernardino with
the hope of reaching our goal ofhome ownership in 2018 as our

(58:23):
oldest son started kindergarten,I connected with the school
district and learned aboutmaking hope happens Kids program
with my oldest in kindergartenand my twins at preschool. I had
the opportunity to tote myyoungest to the kids parenting
classes in January of 2020, myhusband and our family's
breadwinner unexpectedly passedaway. I found myself in a

(58:44):
pandemic with my sons in anuncertain future. It was then
that that oasis that I found atkids turned into my support
system, as the staff and friendsrallied around me while my sons
and I struggled to find our newnormal. In October of 2020 after
seven years as a homemaker, Ijoined the making hope happen
foundation as a programcoordinator for uplift San

(59:06):
Bernardino. This careeropportunity reignited my
family's dream of home ownershipin November of 2022 through the
mutual support of the uplift SanBernardino Housing Network, my
family was able to buy our firsthome in my role as program
coordinator, and as I connectwith other families in our
community, I can wholeheartedlyattest to the opportunities that

(59:28):
the foundation is bringing toour community and truly making
hope happen.

Erin Brinker (59:32):
For more information about the making
hope happen foundation and tomake a donation, please visit
www.makinghope.org That'swww.makinghope.org your
donations make our workpossible. You.