Making Moves with Jed Byrne | Oak City CRE and DIRT N.C. - Making Moves

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mahala Landin (00:01):
Hey Triangle lovers. Welcome to Making Moves
hosted by The Rachel KendallTeam where we will explore
together the top restaurants,community hotspots and events in
our area. Let's make some moves.
Hi, everyone, it's Mahala landinwith Making Moves and I have a
really cool guest today becausehe's a fellow podcaster. Right.

(00:21):
Yeah. So we got Jed Byrne fromDirt N.C and Oak City CRE,
commercial real estate. Welcome.

Unknown (00:27):
That's right. Glad to be here. Thank you for the
invitation. Thank you for allthis setup. This looks great.
I'm excited to get into it.

Yeah, it was fun to watch you and Anna just nerd
out a little bit on someequipment,

Unknown (00:37):
Equipment people can have equipment conversations.
And I was just as I looked atthe camera, I was like, Man, I
kind of want to talk aboutcameras, too. But we'll get
there maybe maybe that's

might be podcast number two, that was not my
wheelhouse. I'm so thankful tohave great people in my world.
And actually, that's anotherreason that we know each other,
correct? That's right. So tellme a little bit about yourself.
What got you here, what makesyou interesting, and then we'll
dive a little bit deeper andfind out about your experiences
here in the triangle andwhatnot.

Unknown (01:03):
Sure. So I did not grow up in the triangle I got here in
2012. I like to think I got hereas fast as I could. It took a
while. But I moved here in 2012to go to grad school at UNC go
heels. And so I had anundergraduate degree in
mechanical engineering, did somework in that and then ultimately
decided I really wanted to getinto real estate. And so UNC has

(01:23):
a great program in theirbusiness school, that is real
estate development and financefocused. So I started in 2012
through 14 moved to Charlottefor a bit to work in multifamily
development. And then ultimatelymoved back here where I met
Anna, to work at a large officeREIT here in Raleigh, which is
so an office landlord across thesoutheast, origin, their finance

(01:46):
department, and then worked foranother firm in development, and
then now work for an engineeringfirm. So my whole kind of career
synopsis has really been focusedon the second half of my career
on land use and development andplacemaking. And that all
stemmed from the fact that, youknow, no matter where you go, or
what you do, land use and realestate has a huge impact on your

(02:08):
life, whether you know it ornot, right. So we're sitting in
an office that was built bysomebody and right, you guys
made it your own space, andyou're operating a business out
of it. But somebody had to havean idea, there had to be a piece
of land. And then somebody kindof made this thing happen. And
now you guys get to use it. Andthat's true everywhere you go.
And so I've always beenfascinated by just kind of how

(02:30):
people and places and spacesinteract. And so I've had the
privilege of working, like Isaid, at a bunch of different
companies where I get to do thatprofessionally. But then also
starting. See, we're 22. Soprobably six or seven years ago,
as a as a fairly newcomer to thetriangle, I realized this is not
where I grew up, this is not myhome. And no matter what I want

(02:51):
to do in the future, it seemedlike a good idea to start to get
to know people. And so when Iwas at work, I actually talked
to my boss and I said, Hey,listen, I know this really isn't
part of my job. But would you beokay, if I just started spending
a little bit of time every week,you know, maybe out of the
office, maybe in the office, butjust getting to know people in
the real estate space. Becauseagain, no matter what happens,

(03:12):
no matter what I do, no matterwhat I do with the company, it's
going to be beneficial to knowpeople. And I felt like I was
kind of starting behind I wastrying to catch up and make up
for lost time. And Raleigh andthe triangle has been an
extremely welcoming place. Andso it's not a hurdle wasn't
getting to know people andconnecting with people. It's
just the time and having thediscipline to do that. And so I

(03:35):
started to do that just once aweek meeting people for coffee,
or lunch or whatever. And thatwas going well again, every time
I reached out to somebody andsaid, Hey, you're doing
something interesting. You're inreal estate, I'm fascinated by
land use and real estate anddevelopment. So I just like to
chat, learn about what you do.
People were very responsive tothat. But I quickly realized,
and again, I'm an engineer bytraining. So maybe I have a bit
of a nerdy math brain. But Iquickly realized if I was

(03:57):
meeting one new person a week,that's 52 people here, which is
pretty good. But if I'm buildinga relationship with you, it's
gonna be hard to do that on aonce a year basis, right? If I
see you every year, like, yes,we'll have some form of
relationship. But that's notnearly as good if it's more
often often than that. And so Ikind of tried to figure out

(04:17):
like, I can't, I can't spend allof my time out just meeting
people. I have to work I haveto,

well, that's living here. Yeah. And you can't
see me because it's podcast, butmy hand just went flat, right?
Like that's living on thesurface. And that's not really
getting down into the depths ofwhat actually builds a
relationship. So even thoughthat nerdy brain of yours, put
KPIs against, you know, meetingpeople and developing
relationships, I mean, youliterally just put a metrics on
that, which is hysterical.

Unknown (04:45):
I mean, and I actually talked about this a bit with
people recently. I'm not sureand you can't see my book, but I
do I just keep a list of people.
Whenever I see somebody doingsomething interesting, or
somebody who I think is eitherdoing something interesting or
is interesting, I just jot anote down and say I'd like you
know, just keep them kind of Topof Mind if I get the chance to
reach out. So I started lookingat different ways to stay
connected to people and to buildrelationships outside of just a

(05:08):
one to one meeting just becauseit it, I didn't have the time,
it was not possible to to dowhat I wanted to do on a one to
one basis. And so that's when Igot the idea of starting oak
city care, which has been kindof this overarching platform
have started with a newsletter,and then the podcaster. And so
you came out of that. But so forthe last five or six years, and

(05:30):
then also social media, so I'mvery more active on Twitter,
some Instagram, but Twitter,

well, in your space, Twitter makes a lot of
sense. And we can talk aboutthat a little bit more to we can

Unknown (05:41):
and we can talk about how long it took me to realize
that that was probably the smartuse of my time as opposed to
Instagram or I've never been toLinkedIn. I mean, it it's
amazing to me looking back onhow long it took me to realize
that Twitter because Twitter isinteractive. And it allowed me
to participate in conversations,and ask questions on

the topic of planning and development. So
many political figures useTwitter to communicate their
intentions or what theirplatforms are. And, and that's a
better following, because that'syour audience, right? And just
pairing that audience together.
But we jumped around a lot. So Ihave to get back before it let's
go. But I gotta go backwards to2012. Because I love the passion
about real estate. I think a lotof people as they get into

(06:23):
adulthood, find a passion forreal estate, but nobody wakes up
and says I'm passionate aboutland use and purpose and why
people use buildings arewildland is intended for that.
So can you can you back up alittle bit and talk about what
what was that that light switchthat came on when you kind of
discovered that love? Surepassion, because it's obviously

(06:45):
driving a huge part of yourbusiness today.

Unknown (06:49):
It is I mean, I think so my my theory with going to
grad school at UNC was I wouldlike to get into the seat of the
real estate developer, I wouldlike to be the person who's part
of the team that builds thebuilding. And the more I did
that, I realized that it's, it'sa very small group of people who
actually do that for a living.
And same thing with brokers. Andyou know, on the residential

(07:11):
side, it's a small group, butthe the impact is huge. And so
like I said, everybody'sinvolved in it in some capacity,
right, either either as a useras a tenant as a neighbor. And
so I realized that there wasthis huge kind of, I don't say
it's a gap. But you know, a lotof people are impacted by it

(07:34):
every day, our land usedecisions from from politics and
policy to, again, what thedevelopers do. And again, on
Twitter, everybody has opinions.
Everybody has thoughts aboutreal estate and development. But
there seem to be this kind ofdisconnect between the world I
was in which was theprofessional side of it, and
going to organizations like Uliand meetings and conferences,

(07:56):
and then that I mean, that'slike, half a percent of all of
Raleigh is kind of in that pool.
And then the other 99.5% are theeveryday people who are impacted
by this and are interested inhim. And that's the other thing,
every but not everybody, there'sa very large amount of the
population that is interested inwhat's going on in development,

but not enough communication out there. Because
as a, as a residential realestate broker, I mean, we get
those questions all the timewhen we're working with our
clients is, well do you knowwhat's going to be built behind
my house? And that informationis not readily available? It's
especially in the residentialspace. Now in the commercial
space, of course, there'sresources and training and, and

(08:36):
all of that, but in theresidential space, there's not a
lot of crossover, right. So itis it is really fascinating,
especially for me, I can't callmyself a native but I can call
myself a local you know,watching what has happened with
Cary and Raleigh and Durham frommy from the time I was from
1984. Until 2022 is mindboggling and and being a part of

(08:58):
it as a resident is one thing,but you coming in, like you
said, trying to catch up to thehistory of this growing
community. That's a that's amuch more daunting task. Yeah,

Unknown (09:09):
it's, it's, it's a weird blend of kind of simple
and complicated. Because, again,real estate development
buildings are fairly simple, youknow, their four walls and a
roof, right? Land is land, dirtis dirt for the most part. And
there's history and context andall that and design. I mean, a
lot, a lot goes into it, butit's worth building places and

(09:31):
spaces for people. And it alsogets really kind of complicated
and opaque. And I think there'sa terminology that people use,
there are resources anddocumentation again, when you
when you get asked, Hey, what'sgoing to be built? There's a
field next to me what's going tobe built there.

Why is this road stop? And then you see the
guardrails? Yep,

Unknown (09:49):
why is it just dead?
And how does that happen? Andwhat's going to happen in 10
years, I mean, we I live on astreet like that where it's part
of a road that was kind ofsevered Good. And that's one of
the questions in you know, doesthis happen? Where could it
happen where that turns into?
Well, it's not dead end roadanymore.

One of my favorite things about selling
residential real estate wasdriving. Yeah. And I know that
sounds crazy, but I miss it somuch I miss the driving. And you
know, growing up in this area, Iremember, lead Mine Road. And I
remember the lead Mine Roadextension, and old lead Mine
Road and how it used to hit sixworks. And like that kind of
stuff is so fascinating to me.
It's like who came in here anddecided to sever baileywick You

(10:28):
know, who came in and decided toreroute lead Mine Road in order
to make this happen. And thenyou see the target go in the
whole foods go and you're likesomebody had a plan, right? Even
in 1984, somebody had a plan?
And I guess it's how toresidents? Or how, how did you
navigate figuring out where allof that those resources are? Or

(10:50):
how to answer some of thosequestions of why this land is
the way it

Unknown (10:53):
is so so a big piece of that has come back to
relationship. I mean, that, tome, kind of a cornerstone of my
life is relationship. And in mymind, none of us are as smart as
all of us, which is a huge kindof, again, another kind of quote
that I always lean on. But see,

I don't ask that question until the end. But
we'll have to revisit it.
floods. I

Unknown (11:13):
mean, the the the way, unfortunately, the planning is
out there, right. So those roadplans are years and sometimes
decades in the making mean thatwe have long range plans with
the city that go out to 20 3040.
I mean, they go way out there.
So these conversations arealways happening, but they're
not top of mind. And I mean, youthink about infrastructure

(11:36):
projects with the city. I mean,you look at certain things. I
mean, we're working on bus rapidtransit. Now, that's been in the
works for 810 12 years, and thenall of a sudden, you know, some
construction activity starts orroad gets closed off, or cones
start going up. And people whomoved there in the last two
years, are saying, well, what,what's happened? Well, why is

(11:56):
this happening? You know, whatare you guys doing with my
street, and it's like, well,we've been working on this for
20 years. And so there's been, Idon't know if it's because of
the growth in the triangle, orjust the nature of these
projects are so complicated. Andbecause community involvement is
important. They typically don'tmove fast. I mean, very few

(12:18):
cities will say, oh, I want todo this type of expansion, or
this infrastructure project. Andit's like six months later,
we're just doing it. Because ifthey do that they risk causing a
lot of problems and hurting alot of people and having
negative impacts. And so theytend to go slow. But that slow
pace also has the consequence ofif you moved here five years
ago, you might not even be awarethat when they had the meeting,

(12:42):
six years ago, and seven yearsago, and they didn't know when
they hit went through a threeyear planning process. And then
now that it's planned, so thenthey go through funding, and
that takes a handful of years.
And that's when you move in. Soyou don't really hear about it's
not in the news, right? So outthere, it's in a document
somewhere. And there's been alot of work put into it. And
then all of a sudden, you seethe orange cones go up, and
you're really confused as towhat's going on. So it's a
weird. And I think kind ofunfortunate mix, you don't want

(13:04):
to move quick, because you canhurt people and you can have
negative impacts. But it's alsotough and frankly expensive. For
for communication to beconsistent, and constant. For
10s of 1000s of people for 1520years.

I think the most perfect example of that was the
540 extension. You mentioned2012, I started selling
residential real estate in 2014,primarily for the Rachel Kendall
team. And that 540 extension hadnot been approved yet. I think
it had been sitting in five yearapproval process even at 2014.

(13:43):
Do you remember that? And as youwere transitioning into this
world, or were you at allinvolved in

Unknown (13:48):
that. So I was I wasn't involved. I tried to pay
attention. But you know, eveneven as those things progress,
you know, it goes from this. Andagain, I'm not a planner, this
is not my background, right? Yougo through, hey, we have this
outer belt line that we want tocomplete. And there's this
again, there it goes from anidea to say, Okay, here's what
we want to do, and you go outand you get feedback, and you're
not committed

to the environmental stuff. Remember it
all it all boiled down to like amicroscopic organism that was in
wetlands that forced it to go tothe orange route and not the
purple route. Right. So I thinkthose are the things that people
miss if they're not, you know,but even then I was having to go
to the D O T site on a regularbasis to get new information I

(14:31):
pass on to people that haddisclosures on their homes.

Unknown (14:34):
And that's the way I think these things typically
operate is the information hasto be out there has to be public
information. So the informationis there. But again, where maybe
it would be quicker to to texteverybody in the city or to
email everybody or to do someform of other kind of more
modern communication. That isnot necessarily equitable,

(14:57):
because what if you don't have acell phone or what don't have
access to You know, I mean, youcan't say, oh, well, the
information is out there, youjust, you know, I message it to
you, right? And it's like, well,I don't have that access to. So
I think a lot of times in theeffort to be fair and equitable,
things just move slower. Andagain, that the the processes,
whether it, whether it'sbuilding this office building,

(15:17):
or building a highway, areextremely iterative. And there's
all these different levels ofrisk and issue that have to be
addressed. So right, here'swhere we think it should go.
Here's kind of what makes themost sense. And then you talk to
the engineers, and they say,Well, that can't work. And then
you talk to the environmentalfolks. And I say, Well, that
can't work. And then you get itpriced. And then the finance
team says ELAC can't work. Andso this whole time you go from
this initial idea, down to thefinal product, and there's just

(15:40):
a ton of things that change.
Yeah. And it makes it again,it's it's kind of, it's fairly
simple. You know, people knowhow to build roads, but the
process of getting it done orknow how to build buildings, but
the process of getting it done,takes a lot of time, takes a lot
of risk and takes a lot ofchange. And again, those are
things that people don't likechange.

Well, you sold me on the passion. Yeah, and how
invested you are in this careerof yours. So let's go back to
that question that you askedyour manager about this idea to
help you build deeperconnections within the
commercial real estate world?
What? Trial and error, whatworked, what didn't work? I
mean, what did you learn in thatprocess of creating this great
community? Because I do believethat the most successful people

(16:24):
are the ones that have theability to be a community
manager. Yeah.

Unknown (16:30):
What worked and what didn't work, it's really a lot
of trial and error. And I thinkat the core of it. Building
relationships of any kind has tocome kind of from You got to
want to do it, and you have tocare. And you got to want to
show up day in and day out.
Again, this is something I'vebeen doing for I mean, the
newsletter for almost six years.

(16:52):
I like to think that I'm one ofthe few women that like to think
I think it just happened that,you know, I'm one of the few
people that thinks aboutcommercial real estate in
Raleigh, I would say like, top1%. Again, that's not a point of
pride that doesn't go on myresume. But it's just, it's just
naturally, it's something Ireally, really care about. And
again, seeing this gap betweenwhat I know and what I see and
what I understand. And then justtalking to friends and

(17:13):
colleagues and other people, andthere's there just seems to be
this huge gap. And so how can I,you know, that's kind of what
drives me is how can I connectwith people? How can I help
educate? How can I help inform,and, and frankly, learn and so
that's, that's what drives me.
And so what works and whatdoesn't work? Starting works,
and committing works. That's onething I can say with with no

(17:38):
shadow of a doubt. The veryfirst newsletter I sent was,
literally a Gmail email, Iopened up a Gmail account for
Oak city care. And I populatedit with 40 or so emails, just
people I knew. And I said, andit might be technically spam. I
don't think so. But they forgiveme if it was, but I just said,
Hey, listen, here's what I'mgoing to do. You know, I spend

(17:59):
so much time thinking about realestate and development and news.
I'm thinking about puttingtogether this weekly email, it's
just going to be kind of thesefive bullets. Here's what's
going on. Here's what you needto know in Raleigh. It's
commercial real estate. It'sonly in Raleigh. And then I just
said, Are you interested, youknow, tell me if you went off
that list, you'll get off thelist. And so I did that. And I
started, that was the beginningof 2017. And it's changed a lot
since then. And it's gotten Ihope better. It's certainly

(18:22):
grown. But it was just this ideaof well, I'm going to do this.
And the cool thing about doingsomething digital versus in
person, where I think in personis absolutely better. If you
could, if I could meet one onone with everybody that I
interact with, that would beideal, but it's just not
feasible. The digital aspect isit, it doesn't take more effort

(18:43):
to send an email to one personor 1000. I mean, it's exactly
the same thing. It's leveragingthat resource of the digital
kind of channel the value. Andso that again, starting and
trying it seeing what worked,what didn't work. I mean, I
would get I got to a point whereit's uh, well, we'll you know,
the way I'm currently doing thiswith just an email, there's no

(19:03):
way for somebody else, there'sno way for mahalo or Anna, to
find out about this and getinvolved, they, you would have
to say, email me and say, Hey,Jed, can you add me to the list,
so it just didn't work? So Ifigured what's what's a step and
I first got on tiny letter,which was Ashton Smith, who also
has a newsletter that I thinkit's phenomenal. Rally over
easy. Google it if you're notfamiliar. She does this like

(19:26):
weekly roundup of basicallyeverything. And really, it's
crazy. And she has been doing itfor a decade or more. I don't
know how she does. That'samazing. That was one of those
things where it's like, okay,well, she's using this tool, and
it seems to be working for her.
So I copied that and I started atiny letter, and that worked.
And now all of a sudden, peoplecould sign up and it went from
40 people to you know, 100 andthat seemed to work and people
seemed in involved andinterested. And then it's really

(19:50):
I mean, I looked at it. It'sgrown substantially since then.
But it really has been, youknow, five people a week for the
last six years. And people tendnot to leave Twitter. Like I
said, we can we can talk moreabout that. That's been good
because it's a way peopleinteract more on Twitter, and
last questions. And, again, Iget to I get to listen in on

(20:13):
conversations and ask questions

on the wall fly on the wall. So the question I
have for you is, okay, you havean engineering background, you
go to grad school, you startfocusing in on planning on the
financial aspect of projects.
And somewhere in there, youbecame an entrepreneur. And I
think the the idea ofentrepreneurship is so
misinterpreted, because peoplethink entrepreneurs are making
tons of money. But what you justdescribed was just a great

(20:38):
example of trueentrepreneurship. And, you know,
that's something I think, as we,you know, make decisions in our
lives, we have to sit back andsay, you know, what, I did
create something I told I did aleadership, which is another
connectivity for us, leadershiprally, but I did a leadership
360 evaluation one time duringmy career, and I made the

(21:01):
comment about myself, and I wasfrom an arts background, and I
and I said, I'm not thatcreative, you know, and the
person that was running thatleadership, you know, evaluation
was like, well, but you arecreative, you just don't create
art, you know, and I think weall have that aspect of
creation. And you've describedthat about yourself several
times, you know, about how youbuilt something, and that is

(21:22):
entrepreneurship, and now you'rekeeping it alive. And you show
up every single day for youraudience and for your, you know,
your community that you areserving, and that is leadership
and and entrepreneurship. Didyou ever see yourself there?

Unknown (21:39):
Not really, no, I mean, it is funny, I think I've always
known. That's how I got intoengineering. I like figuring out
how things work. I like solvingproblems. I like building
things, I've always kind of beena tinkerer and a serial
hobbyist, and that's part of it,too, is you know, this is
building something. And itfortunately takes up zero, or I
guess the amount of space of acell phone takes up very little

(22:00):
room, I don't leave bits andparts and pieces all over the
garage. There's not sawdustflying through the air. So it's,
it is building something. And Ithink it's exposed a lot of
different facets of myself thatI don't think I realized fully
that I had. And my suggestion topeople, whenever I talk to him
about this sort of thing is likejust just start, just try

(22:22):
something. And you'll find outwhat you like, what works, what
doesn't work. I mean, the costof the cost of doing things
these days is got to be as lowas it's ever been. I mean, the
cost of starting up a website orsocial media account, or you
know, everybody has got videoequipment, or you can record

speaking of like Twitter and social media. I
mean, as millennials, we came ofage with MySpace, and you had to
have a computer science degreejust to build your, your MySpace
to work. And now everything islike right there at your
fingertips. And so I mean, Icould watch a YouTube video and
figure out how to create APIconnections. I mean, that's
actually how I know Anna is Ihired her, because I'm sitting

(23:03):
there about to start this bigdigital media strategy that I
had in my brain of how tointegrate databases so that I
can better communicate with ouraudience. And I'm ready. I'm
like, I know how to use Zapier,and I know how to do this. And
I'm ready to do it. And then Iwas like, but I don't want to,
it's not my strength anymore. Iknow, I need to know when I can

(23:25):
bring somebody else in tocompliment ideas and to do
actually a way better job than Icould have ever done it.

Unknown (23:31):
It's it's Yeah, I mean, it, you learn to me, I learn by
doing and I think most peopledo, and the cost of starting to
do something are very low. Andyou find out quickly, where that
where the hurdle points arewhere the blockages and it's
amazing to me, as you dosomething, you're gonna find out
what your problem is, once youdiscover your problem, you kind
of have an inkling of what thequestion is going to be right. I

(23:52):
mean, you mentioned YouTube, butit's like, I have a 2010 Prius
and a left rear light bulb isout. How do I change that? Not
only do you find that partonline with a Google search, but
on YouTube, there's somebody whohas spent, I don't know, three
hours editing, filming, shootingthis video putting it up on
YouTube, and it's not oh, here'show you change a taillight.
It's, here's how you change thatexact tail light on that exact

(24:14):
model of climbing everything.
You can find the answers toanything out there. I mean, the
hurdles are so low, but I don'tthink you find them until you
start. And so that's always beenkind of my thing is try it get
out there. You'll see whatworks, you'll see what you
enjoy. You see what you know, Idon't enjoy being I enjoy
thoroughly keeping up withwhat's going on. I do not enjoy
being active 24/7 on socialmedia. I mean, I know people who

(24:37):
do similar things to what I do,and they're just always on all
the time and there's a guy claySeeley in Charlotte that does
CLT development, and he's justnon stop 24/7 365 You will not
catch me on Twitter, you know atnine o'clock at night and you
won't catch me constantlyupdating and responding. And
that works for me. And again, Idon't lose sleep at night over

(24:58):
it. because it's just I figuredout, that's what works for me
and when that's what doesn't,and that's kind of my

and it works for your audience, you mentioned
something about that it'sgrowing, it's because of the
value that you're presenting.
And we talked about this withour team, in terms of how we
communicate with our pastclients, you know, we have to
always stay relevant. And ifthey're not in the business of
buying and selling at home,well, what makes us relevant to
them, and it's the value that wecan continue to provide to them.
So during this, you know,journey that you've had, you're

(25:25):
you've clearly identified whatthat value is, and you've
mentioned a gap. But can you canyou communicate what that value
proposition sure is about theinformation that you're sharing?
Because it keeps people comingback? And it lets you do it the
way you want to do it?

Unknown (25:39):
I mean, the big caveat is I think, so. And I think the
interesting thing about again,just just starting up and just
doing something is you'll findout quickly what works and what
doesn't. And you can ask peoplesay, hey, you know what, and I
try to do that try to getfeedback. To me, there's a gap
in kind of understanding of theterminology, the processes,

(26:01):
where the information is, how toget it, what it all means. And
there's a gap, I think there'sespecially in real life, there's
so much happening, that there'sjust kind of an onslaught of, of
news,

there used to be when I was selling, and I was
kind of nerdy about it, too, isthere was a development beat on
Facebook. Yeah. And it wasgreat, because they were
constantly posting about newdevelopments. And then because I
love driving, I would beanywhere near those places. And
I would kind of take a looklike, Oh, I remember reading
about that. And I'd share it outto my, you know, following on

(26:35):
social media, and then it justkind of went away. Yeah. But
clearly, that is something thatyou experienced to where that
wasn't the right platform forthat type of information. And
Twitter really was,

Unknown (26:45):
I think, Well, I think it it can take a lot of work.
And like most things, you know,they're very few things that you
can get to the end of somethingand say, Okay, well, this is
done, this is complete, this isperfect. And so again, I tried
to constrain myself into mynewsletter is going to be once a
week, and it's going to be fivearticles. It's sometimes six,

(27:08):
sometimes four. But I said theseconstraints again, to know what
kind of is enough, because Ifeel like if I don't know what
enough is, I can drive myselfcrazy crazy to get it perfect.
But you brought up the point ofstaying relevant and staying
valuable. I do think, again, thetools are all out there. And if
you are on the home sales side,again, when somebody buys a home

(27:28):
every 357 years, there's athere's a big gap between when
you can be ultimately helpful,right, which is I'm a broker,
I'm a realtor, I'm going to helpyou buy or sell this home, and
then seven years later, but howcan you, you know, keep people
informed about hey, this iswhat's going on, you know, this
event is happening in yourneighborhood this weekend. This
is something I know you movedinto this house, I know you have

(27:49):
children, we've talked aboutthat. Okay, well, if your kids
were this age last year, they'rethis Okay, so you have a 10 to
12 year old, here's some thingsthat you might find interesting
for you and your family thisweekend or next month. And
again, I think the the amount ofinformation out there in the
world is overwhelming,completely overwhelming. And I
think when you asked what thevalue is, I think that's kind of

(28:10):
one of the values is just kindof paring it down making it
simple, because I have on mynewsletter, there are there are
people who are developers andinvestors and are absolutely
kind of in the thick of the realestate space. And they're up to
speed. They know what's goingon. And I've talked to some of
them, they say, Well, I like thenewsletter, because I can look

(28:30):
at it and in two minutesrealize, yep, knew about that,
knew about that, knew aboutthat, and knew about that. So
I'm up to speed, I'm good to go,can can move on. And then there
are other people who didn'tknow, I mean, I get emails all
the time. So I had no idea thiswas happening. And

I think so is your audience pretty vast in
that way? Like, do you feel likeit's

Unknown (28:47):
fairly diverse. I mean, that's the thing that's been
interesting to me. And again, myoriginal thesis was development,
whether you're in it or not,impacts you in positive and or
negative ways every single day.
And so there's there's a biasbecause I care a lot about
development, but a lot of peopleare really interested in what's
going on in their places andspaces and in their community.
And so, to me, that's kind ofthe one value proposition. And

(29:09):
then the other one, which I'mstarting to get more into, is
kind of the education andinformation piece of, you know,
okay, well here's, you know, howdid you find out that
information? You know, I wrotean article a few weeks ago on
IMAP so which is our Wake CountyGIS system, and there's, there's
oodles of information out thereif you know how to look for and

it does actually, to, to the credit of our you
know, Register of Deeds and thatwhole site. It gets better every
year honestly.

Unknown (29:41):
And as someone who's worked across the state, we have
it better. I mean, there areother counties that the
information just is not asrobust and easy to get to and
easy to use. So we've got itreally good in lots of ways and
Wayne County but so again,helping Pete You know, and I
wrote that article, I'm sure Arethe people and so I had no idea

(30:01):
you could do that. And to me,again, I know I know a little
bit of that a little bit ofthings. But having that ability
to kind of share thatinformation, and then also start
a conversation, where I know abunch of other people. And
again, back to Twitter and thevalue of just being connected to
people, is I'll just ask aquestion and say, Hey, I wonder
if this is possible. And I'vehad Ryan Cooper's a guy that I

(30:22):
interact with a lot on Twitter,who is this like mapping genius.
And sometimes he'll respond andjust say, Oh, hey, I built this
little custom map applet islike, here you go, is exactly
what you were looking for. It'slike, Hey, how can we identify
all of the, you know,residential land in Wake County?
And then like, an hour later, Ijust get this response, like,
Oh, here you go, I made the mapfor you. And again, I can't I
have no idea how people do someof the things that they do. But

(30:44):
just the fact that you've gotsome sort of base level of
relationship and trust withsomebody allows for this
opportunity, this little idea orquestion, to come up with
something cool. And again, Ijust, I'm such a firm believer
in relationship, because itleads to trust. And I think if
you have trust, we don't evenneed to go down that rabbit
hole. But we can. But like,especially especially in the

(31:04):
built environment, where what Ido, impacts what you do. And
again, that could be positive ornegative. But you know, what, us
building this office here meansnothing else can exist here. But
hopefully, this is a netpositive for our community
building that road or notbuilding that road or that park.

Yeah, I mean, every day, I watched the geo
mapping and the and the peoplecome in ready to just expand six
forks right into our building.
And, and I think Wake Countydoes a pretty good job of trying
to communicate, we you drive by,and you see the signs of, you
know, public notices, andthey're really, to your point of

(31:40):
equity and communication,they're really making every
effort to get the information inpeople's hands in any possible
way. And if you notice that allof these public notices, not
only are they on the areas thatit affects, but they also really
try and like saturate around busstops, and around school

(32:01):
communities, and just a lot ofareas that our high traffic in
order to let make sure that it'sdelivered.

Unknown (32:10):
And that's one of the things. Again, this is not a
quote of mine, but it's it's,you know, the the land use
challenges and opportunitiesthat we face, I think are more
tensions to be managed ratherthan problems to be solved.
Because like what you justbrought up about six sports
expanding, you can say, Okay,well, we've got a ton of cars

(32:31):
driving down six floors, theyneed more room. Well, that's not
a problem that you can solve.
It's a tension that you canmanage. Because if you if you
add more road space, you havemore room for cars, more cars,
but literally and physically,now you have less parking in
front of your office building,or you have less maybe a
building or trees or maybe nobill. I mean, that's again,
there's all of the things that Ikind of think about and talk

(32:52):
about are not problems that youcan just solve, there is no one
solution. Whether whether it'son the commercial side of the
residential side, it's aconstant dance of tension. And
those tensions need to bemanaged. And and one of the
greatest tools, I think, forhelping manage that tension is
just the general idea ofcommunication, relationship

(33:13):
building, and the buildingtrust. Because again, if you
trust, if you trust yourplanning department, that
they're doing the best suit,your transportation department,
your utility department, yourelected officials, your
neighbors, I mean, if you havetrust, you can then start a
conversation. And they can say,well, here's what we're thinking
about doing. And you kind ofvoice your opinion, and then you
go back and you get to thisresult that is, again, maybe not

(33:33):
the perfect solution, and youdidn't solve the problem. But
hopefully, you've managed thetension as a community to the
best of your ability.

Yeah. So one of the things, you know, we talked
about is the the way that you'redelivering information to a
diverse group of people. So whatwhat are ways that you would
recommend our residents getoutside of your podcast or
outside of your newsletter, tobe able to tap into, you know,

(34:04):
educating themselves on some ofthese opportunities to resolve
tension?

Unknown (34:10):
So you mentioned kind of a diverse audience. That's
one of the things I strugglewith is I don't think my
audience is terribly diverse,unfortunately, because it you
know, it's on Twitter, it isemail, and it's people that I
know, I mean, I don't if there's1000 people on my newsletter,
that's, I don't know, one out ofevery 500 People in Raleigh, I

(34:32):
mean, it's a very small, smallpercentage. And so that that's
something I think is just achallenge in general is how do
you communicate with a diverseset of people? I don't have an
answer to that. What I wouldrecommend to people is get to
know your neighbors, read yourlocal news, engage in

(34:53):
conversations and my personalthe thing that I think is saved
me many times on Twitter is Itry and ask questions rather
than tell you what I think.
Because, you know, I alreadyknow how to change your mind.
Well, and frankly, especially onTwitter, you probably can't. But
you know, I know what I know.

(35:15):
And so whenever somebody says,you know, if I share something,
and somebody says, Well, this isthe horrible idea, it's gonna be
tell me about why do you thinkthat because again, it's it, I
don't think there's a right orwrong. But you know, if you can
explain to me or share what youthink, then I can learn
something from it. And I canagree with you or disagree with
you. But now I know, oh, hey,there's people out there that,
you know, think, I don't know,bus services, a waste of money.

(35:38):
Right? Interesting. Let's talkabout the tell me why that is.
And again, usually there. It'sbased on something. And so
again, if you get to know whatpeople think and how they think,
I think that's helpful andpowerful. And again, you can see
where the other person's comingfrom. And I see that every
single day. And so that's whatI'd recommend is, communicate
with people, talk to yourneighbors, reach out to people,

(36:01):
if you have questions. I mean,again, I've been so blown away
in Raleigh, just how open andreceptive people are. And if
you're interested in whatthey're doing, I can't I can't
imagine someone's gonna say, Oh,you find what I do interesting.
And you want to learn more aboutit? No, I don't want to spend
time with you. And you know,maybe it's not going to be
lunch, maybe it's not gonna be acoffee. But you know, if you
reach out to somebody in theplanning department, every is

(36:24):
every single, every singlemunicipal employee that I've
ever met, wants to do a good joband wants to do their job well.
And so instead of, you know,going out to the road
contractor, and yelling andscreaming and just say, Hey,
what are you doing? You know,what's going on here today? Tell
me about this. You know, this isthis is a surprise to me. How do
we, you know, how do I find outwhere this information came? Or

(36:45):
who gave you, you know, where doyour kind of orders come from?
And it's okay, let's city. Okay,who can I talk to the city? And
instead of being computational,just being curious. Yeah, I
think that goes a long way. Andagain, I don't have the answer
for communicating with a diverseset of people. That's that's a
very, very challenging problem.
But I just think it starts withreaching out, asking him to talk
to people to communicate, andjust kind of starting with this

(37:08):
openness to learn rather thanOh, hey, here's what I think is
right, here's what I think weshould or here's what I know, we
should do. This is the rightanswer.

I subscribe to the theory that the relationship
is the conversation, right? Sothe first step is just having
that, you know, open dialogue,which is great. So from your
perspective, as now a residentof the last 10 years in Raleigh,
what has been some of the mostimpactful change that we've had
in our landscape? Whether it'sfrom land use, or development

(37:41):
or, you know, infrastructurethat you've seen? What's What do
you feel like it's been the mostimpactful to where we are today?

Unknown (37:49):
most impactful? That's a big question. I think some of
the most impactful things thatI've seen that have really been
impressive. The weak transitplan. So for bus rapid transit,
there was a light railconversation that went on for a
while, that is no more. But thisidea, I think, the wheels are

(38:13):
starting to turn on, we cannotbuild enough space for cars, for
everybody to drive everywhere,all the time, right by
themselves. I think I think thewheels are starting to turn into
this conversations aroundtransit conversation,

singles, the movie single,

Unknown (38:32):
I mean, it's just it, that's, again, from an
engineer's perspective, like youcan do, you can do the math, and
you can look at it if 500,000people are in their cart, well,
we don't have 5000 drivers. Butif the math is challenging, it
doesn't quite work. But so sotransit conversations, the
conversations around, I don'teven want to say alternative

(38:54):
modes of transportation, butbikes and pedestrian
infrastructure that we arebuilding and it's going on the
ground. And again, I think justthe fact that we as a community
are taking action on some ofthese big issues. Lots of
conversations around housingaffordability, and I think
that's a huge one that everyoneis now facing directly,

(39:14):
especially especially,

came relevant.
Yeah, you know, and, and thefunny thing is, and I say it to
the team, every time we dotraining, and we talk about
where we are today in the realestate market is this was not an
accident. This didn't happenbecause of the pandemic. This
was you know, let's go back to2008 when homebuilders decided
to pull the plug on building,that's when this happened. You

(39:36):
know, we we are in a housingaffordability, you know, issue
today because of just the, youknow, robust demand that we have
for homeownership. And we'revery lucky for that, but we have
to get that supply up and we arestill one of the most affordable
places to live in the nation,even though it doesn't feel that

(39:56):
way because local natives, youknow, have a different memory.
But we have to shift ourperspective of where we are in
comparison to other.

Unknown (40:07):
Well, that's that's the that, I think is the crux of the
issue. Again, it's a tension,it's not a problem, you know,
you can show me the data thatsays, Oh, hey, we are, you know,
the number two, number threefastest growing market in the
state or in the country. And weare still on an affordability.
If you look at the average costof housing, we are, you know,

(40:29):
exposition way down the listcompared to all these other
major metros. I don't know thatthat changes my opinion. If I
say, Okay, well, you know, I'vebeen saving for six years, and I
was trying to get to be able toafford a house for $400,000. And
now I finally got my downpayment for that house, and I
can't afford it. And it's andit's $600,000. And so again,
that I think is part of what Ihope to participate in is

(40:54):
helping people understand.
Because again, this didn'thappen by accident, it wasn't
one person or one groupdecision. But I think there are
options and opportunities tohave an impact on what's
happening on the ground. And Ithink if more people understand
the dynamics of real estate,finance and development and

(41:15):
infrastructure,

and the reasons for apartments and the reasons
for mixed use development, andthe reason for multifamily, and
the reasons for this, it all,yeah,

Unknown (41:24):
it's all connected. I mean, now, I can look at almost
any issue. And again, I'mbiased, because I'm real estate
focused, I look at almost anyissue. And there, it almost
always comes back to land useand so you know, traffic, that's
a land use issue, parking, landuse issue, housing,
affordability, land use issue,you know, offices and getting
around town, community, allthese things are land use

(41:45):
choices that we've made. Andagain, I try, I have ideas, I
have thoughts. I try not to tellpeople what I think is right or
wrong, because again, I thinkthat's irrelevant. You can't
tell somebody that they're wrongand convince them. But I do
think if you ask questions andget to the bottom of it and help
understand, you know, why thingsare happening the way that they
are? I think then people are wehopefully as a community can

(42:09):
make choices that get us to theplace where we want to be.

Just remain curious. Where it's been to
where you want to be, where doyou hope to see dirt and see and
oak city care go in the next sixyears? 10 years? Five years? Two
years?

Unknown (42:25):
Um, that's a great question. I have no earthly
idea. I mean, that's one of thethings that I've struggled in
doing that, because I think ifit were a business, I would have
metrics and say, and that andthat's honestly, where I've
seen, I think some otherplatforms, and newsletters and
things on social media kind ofcome and go is, through me, it's
not a business, this is a funside project. And it doesn't

(42:47):
cost me a ton of money, it costsme time and halftime. But you
know, it just keeps growing. Andso basically, as long as it's
fun, I'm gonna keep doing it.
With the podcast, that wassomething I started last year,
because, you know, I think it's,it's a huge privilege of mine
that I get to reach out and talkto people at the planning
department, you know, otherdevelopers, designers,

(43:09):
engineers, contractors, allthese people who do the things
that I find interesting andbuild the places that we get to
go and see every single day. AndI have some of those
relationships, or if I reachout, people are receptive. And
again, I have the time and thewherewithal and the bandwidth to
do that. So that is an, youknow, an option where if I can
have that conversation that wasgonna have anyway, I'm not gonna
record it. And again, thebarriers to entry on that are

(43:30):
super low. So if I can recordit, and then share it with other
people, maybe somebody else canlearn. So I don't have goals,
which I struggle with as a goaloriented person. But I think in
six years, if if it can keepgrowing, if I can keep learning,
and if I can keep using it as anopportunity to try and get
people together and talking toeach other, which ultimately, I

(43:52):
think is where any sort ofimprovement or change or happen,
you know, I think it's supercool back when we were doing in
person events, you know, I couldsend something out to the
newsletter and say, Hey, we'regetting together for coffee or
happy hour. And we're going todo this thing. And it just
again, people getting to meeteach other. Sparking those
connections, I think is a hugegift. And I love it. So I don't

(44:12):
I don't have the exam rambling,but I don't have goals. I don't
know where I'm going to keepdoing what I can to have those
conversations to answerquestions to ask a lot of
questions. Again, that's what Italked about earlier on Twitter
is like, I've just found if Ican stay sane, and I think it I
think it continues theconversation if you just ask
questions, and someone willrespond to something and

(44:34):
sometimes it's not so nice. Andusually it is but you know, just
keep asking, like help meunderstand your perspective. And
if I can do that, it's helpfulto me, hopefully, it's helpful
to the other person but no, Ijust I keep I'm gonna keep doing
it. I'm gonna keep growing,hopefully, trying to make things
better. And try to keepconnecting with people because
again, that's, it's been a joy.

That's a gift.
Yeah. What do you love to do onthe triangle?

Unknown (44:59):
Well, Do I love to do so we've got two daughters. And
I like to make sure that theyare exercised and worn out at
the end of the day, and my wifedoes as well. So we spent a lot
of time when we can outsideagain, we are, we are blessed
and not not blessed, because itwasn't an accident. I mean,
people 3040 50 years ago, as youknow, they started planning out

(45:22):
RTP and having these nodes ofcities around the triangle, you
know, people had the idea andGreenway trail, right? Say,
Okay, if we're going to grow,we're going to build we're going
to design it, do it in thiscertain way. And we're going to
make right greenspace apriority, and we're going to be
the city of oaks, so I lovegetting on our trails love
getting on our into our parksand forests. I mean, right

(45:46):
homestead, like what a blessingthat is downtown, we've got
parks and greenways. And themore time I can spend outside on
my feet, or on a bike, thebetter yeah, because again, I
just think that's the best wayto to interact, I saw

the the waterfront property that was
just put out there and thewalkability from North Hills
into, you know, an area ofCapitol Boulevard. So I think,
yeah, it's all planned out. Andas a local, you know, hearing
about these things for years andyears. And then, like you said,
it's sad to see it come tofruition come to fruition is
really cool. You've mentioned somany things about trust. Yeah.

(46:24):
And you seem to be a veryculture forward, you know,
person when it comes to how youdo business, which is awesome.
So you mentioned a quote, let'sgo back to that words, to live
by something that is kind ofthat Northstar? To help you when
thinking through things, whatare some things that you've

(46:45):
leaned on?

Unknown (46:46):
So one that I mentioned is none of us are as smart as
all of us? I mean, that's,again, not I don't even know
where I got that. But it's notmy idea. But I think that goes
back to again, if you putmultiple people together, you
get better ideas. Yeah, trust. Ithink that's just a big
cornerstone, ideal of mine,curiosity and connection. I

(47:09):
mean, it's, it's amazing to mewhat's happened over time, where
I've met somebody, and they canteach me something and then
somewhere down the road. Someother question or comment or
concern pops up. And again, justhaving that base level of trust
and relationship has been huge.
So I mean, to me, it's none ofus are smart at all, as all of

(47:32):
us, the best way to beinteresting is to be interested.
So I just tried to askquestions. And I learned this
lesson in my first job out ofschool, is, you know, everybody,
because I went from an engineer,you know, engineering school, to
working on the field andconstruction with a bunch of
folks who did not haveengineering degrees. Some

(47:52):
didn't, you know, hadn'tgraduated college or gone to
college or graduate high school,some are felons and had rap
sheets and all that stuff. Theyknew so much. They knew
absolutely so much about the jobthat I was sent out there to do
that I knew nothing about methat I was just blown away. And
it was it was it was front andcenter. Hump it. Yeah, that
everybody, every single personyou meet knows way more about

(48:13):
something than you do. Yeah.
And, and I think the trick istrying to figure that out. And I
don't know, if I'm, I think astrength of mine is being
curious and wanting to collectinformation. I mean, it's just,
I'm trying not to be a hoarderof information. But I'm, I'm a
collector of information. And Ihave been blown away. I don't

(48:34):
know that I've ever met anybodythat I haven't discovered
something interesting thatthey've done that they know that
they have access to. And again,I just try to make sure I'm
always I save a little bit oftime to just reach out to and
it's kind of random, you know,the for business. And you can
say, Okay, well, these are,these are my prospects, these

(48:55):
are my clients. These are thepeople I should be meeting with,
obviously, have a little bit ofroom for just like this. I don't
know what it is, but I'm goingto meet you, I'm gonna discover
something. And it's helpful.

And I'm glad you saved a little bit of room for
this. Yeah. And I hope we canhelp you grow with your
diversity within your followingAbsolutely. How do people
subscribe? How do they follow?
What What are ways to reach outto you sure if

Unknown (49:17):
you are interested at all in the places and spaces of
the triangle? My website is Oakcity cre.com www.oa KC It YCRE
for commercial real estate.commost active on Twitter, but all
platforms are at Oak city care,and just reach out I mean,
again, I I would be happy toanswer any questions you have.

(49:39):
And feedback. If ever you seesomething that I do or share,
please provide feedback, becausethat's how I learned and just
Yeah, reach out.

Awesome around speaking my language. Thank you
so much Jad. It's been apleasure.

Unknown (49:49):
Thank you. Well, it's been great.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of
Making Moves. We want to deliverthe highlights of the Triangle
that you want to hear. Let usknow Your feedback comment on
our social media like and ofcourse subscribe to continue and
discover why we love where welive until next time with making
moves hosted by The RachelKendall Team.

All Episodes

Making Moves with Jed Byrne | Oak City CRE and DIRT N.C.

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

Intentionally Disturbing

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Making Moves with Jed Byrne | Oak City CRE and DIRT N.C.