18 restaurants, feeding countless A-List celebrities and leading the plant based food scene sounds like the making of a riddle, but is the reality of our guests Mark. Over the years we've all heard the term plant based but what does it actually mean? Can it actually be good enough that it's highly sought after by foodies worldwide?
A health crisis transformed Mark's relationship with food forever. After receiving a rare blood cancer diagnosis, he immersed himself in nutritional research while undergoing treatment. What emerged was not just a personal healing journey but the foundation for culinary innovation that would reshape Australia's plant-based dining landscape.
Mark's approach is refreshingly approachable. Through his 18 restaurants across Melbourne, Sydney, and Byron Bay—he aspires to create vibrant spaces where food brings people together without dietary labels creating division.
His debut cookbook, "This Cookbook is a Huge Mistake" (named after a neon sign in one of his restaurants) emerged during Australia's lengthy COVID lockdowns. Quarantined alone in a hotel room for two weeks, Mark reflected on his culinary journey, documenting recipes and life lessons that had shaped his path. The result combines practical plant-based techniques with personal stories and his trademark pun-filled humor.
Beyond business success, Mark's most treasured accomplishment is the community he's built—including unexpected friendships with the Hemsworth family, who began as regular customers and became devoted supporters.
Through beautiful, thoughtful food that momentarily transports guests away from daily stress, Mark reminds us that gathering around a table is ultimately about connection, not just nutrition.
Try something from this cookbook. Your taste buds will thank you, and you might just find yourself reimagining what plant-based eating can be.
This Episode is Sponsored by:
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, hey guys, welcome back to Making Room.
I'm so glad you're here.
If you followed along, myfamily just got back from
Nashville area and, gosh, it wasa really sweet week.
At this point, I'm sure most ofyou have made your way there,
but if you haven't, I cannotrecommend it enough.
And I'm not talking likeBroadway, like drink your way
down Broadway, no-transcript,eating down to the source, like
(00:54):
as close as I can get to thesource, gluten-free, dairy-free,
learning as much as I can alongthe way.
But I will admit thatplant-based eating, a
plant-based lifestyle, is notone that I'm like super well
versed in or knowledgeable on.
But there is this plant-basedbakery near us that I have been
frequenting.
I'm paying someone's salary andI don't know what they bake
(01:18):
with, but it's been pretty danggood.
So, with all of this considered, I'm really curious to dive
into this conversation more, andour guest today, mark, is the
perfect person to lead thatconversation.
We were talking very quicklybefore we hit record.
He's our first guest fromAustralia, and we have a few
friends from Australia, a fewfriends from New Zealand that we
met in Thailand, but we haven'tmade our way there yet, and so
(01:39):
I'm having a little bit of FOMO,but this is going to be really
sweet in a lot of different ways.
So if you do not know aboutMark, here is a little bit more
about him.
Mark is the founder of thisnumber is like crazy to me not
one, not two, not even three 18restaurants in Melbourne, sydney
(02:00):
, byron Bay, and now officiallyan author.
Mark is sharing the mostpopular recipes from the journey
, including some of Nana'shomemade recipes, in the form of
a cookbook.
I come from Italian roots too.
My listeners know that, knownfor pushing culinary boundaries
at his many venues, includingthe insta-famous Matcha Milk Bar
and Sydney's Mark and Vinny's,these Mark and Vinny's, mark's
(02:27):
latest labor of love promises adeliciously entertaining blend
of creative plant-based recipes,heartfelt life lessons and
stories and playful puns.
Guys, I promise you there isnot a cookbook on the market
like this one.
I'm so excited to bring it toyour attention and, without
waiting any longer, here's.
My conversation with Mark Todaywas glorious.
I sat outside, worked on thepatio while Wesley played and
(02:50):
just soaked up the sun, and Iwas so happy.
I was thinking how could Ipossibly spend more time outside
this season, because it goes byway too fast, and I'm sure
you've seen those memes.
I feel solar powered, likeliterally the sun makes me come
alive.
Well, guys, we know how to makethat possible.
(03:11):
Going on a vacation is the bestway to enjoy the season the
summer, the sunshine, the heat,oh my gosh, all of the goodness
that comes with it.
And if you are like me, you arealso working and parenting
while dreaming about vacation.
Well, I have a solution for you, and that is my friend
Stephanie.
She is a travel agent, a memorymaking specialist, and she
(03:36):
specializes in Sandals Resorts,beaches Resorts, the Caribbean
and Disney.
And if you are wondering why inthe world would I hire a travel
agent?
Because, honestly, beforechatting with her, that's
exactly what I thought.
That's where I felt, or fell inthinking about it.
She showed me why.
It doesn't cost you a dime, youdon't have to pay anything to
(03:58):
work with her.
Simply tell her where you'reinterested in going, or she
could share her ideas with you,and then she gives you access to
the best deals, the bestopportunities, and takes oh my
goodness, takes the stress outof it.
She sets everything else up sothat you could just arrive and
enjoy your vacation and soak upthe sun, just like we're talking
(04:19):
about.
Head on over to her Instagram atTravel With Stephanie, and she
spells her name S-T-E-P-H-A-N-Iand start the conversation.
She is so easy to work with, sopersonable, she loves family,
loves luxury, and will help youget a little taste of all of it.
And if you are interested inplanning a trip, you don't know
(04:40):
where to start.
You need some ideas.
Let me give you one.
Stephanie and I are headed toAntigua Antigua guys, I need to
learn how to properly say this,but you probably know what we're
talking about In September andwe want you to come with us,
whether you just want to sit bythe pool and have nobody talk to
you, but you want theall-inclusive aspect, great.
(05:00):
Come.
If you want to come with us andvolunteer at a local community
with us, engage in some of thegirls' trip activities that we
have planned, great.
As of right now, this pricedefinitely can and will change.
It is $1,500 a person and therooms are priced for double
occupancy, so what that means istwo people to a room.
(05:21):
You split the cost and yourcost hovers around $1,500.
That includes the airfare, thelodging, 15 dinners and 25
breakfasts.
If you want to eat your heartout, come with us to Antigua.
Sandals Resort, antigua inTomato, tomato Antigua Antigua.
Come with us.
We want you there.
Head on over to Stephanie'sInstagram to start the
(05:44):
conversation, or slide into myDMs and I'll get you connected
as well.
Hi, I'm Katie, a hospitalityeducator and the host of Making
Room by Gather podcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness, andwith it I was given a choice to
(06:07):
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it.
And for me, that meant twothings that I needed the healing
to learn how to accept aninvitation and the confidence to
know how to extend one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through Making Room by Gather,you will hear conversations from
(06:28):
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
the table, but can I tell yousomething?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Okay, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Good.
Well, I didn't want to framethis question in a way that
would like make you give anegative answer, but I want you
to do some comparing.
So talking Australia and USwhat are the big differences?
What do you love about each?
Talk to us about it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Well, yeah, definitely love both amazing
communities in each.
If you, I think the few peopleI've been chatting to while I've
been here, they're like we loveAustralia but, um, there's too
many spiders, but that's that's.
That's not a real thing.
I've probably seen like onespider in the last two years.
You just gently like usher itout if that's the case, um, but
(07:34):
I think, particularly with thehospitality industry, um, and I
know it's sort of slightlychanging, but, um, the amount
that we in Australia like we pay, it's like significantly better
, there's more opportunities forthe employees, and I feel like
in some ways, we do that.
But in a lot of ways, australiafollows like the US.
(07:56):
Like the matcha cafes that arecool out here they open here
first and then they open thereand New York, like the food
concepts, the salad bars, allthose sorts of things tend to
happen out here, and then they,you know, make their way like
trickle down to australia.
But, um, we're yeah, we're likewe're family australia in the
us and and and we're more incommon.
(08:19):
We have more in common than wedo have differently.
But yeah, there's definitelysome.
Uh, australia is a great placefor opportunity.
You know, if you work, you knowthe hourly rates for like a
base cafe work is like $30 anhour Monday to Friday, $35 on
Saturday and $40 on Sundays.
And there's additional rateslike penalty rates once you sort
(08:42):
of hit overtime and late atnight and on public holidays and
those sorts of things.
So if you're willing to sort ofwork you can actually make
money to the point where you canchange your circumstances,
which I know in America is quitedifficult.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, Wow.
So I don't know if you'vecaught on to this.
There's a huge conversation inculture right now American
culture on tipping and you areannoyed at, like all the places
they're being asked to tip.
So is that the same inaustralia?
What's, what's the case?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
um, yeah, great question.
It's yeah, and just sort ofbeen experiencing that this past
week or so.
Um, you know it, the becausebecause the the pay is like
quite well, um, you would onlyreally tip for like really
exceptional service, but youalso, like, the tax is included.
So you know exactly how muchyou're going to pay, like when
(09:34):
you go pay your bill, when youpay for a coffee, when you pay
for a T-shirt, when you pay foranything, you just go, that's
the amount.
So, whereas here it's sort oflike you know, you see the price
and then you're taxed andyou're like add the tip and it's
.
You know, I think it'd be muchbetter if, um, you know the
staff got paid really well andwhat they deserve, and you just
say this is how much I'm goingto pay and that's what you paid.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I think that'd probably be a much better thing
yeah, I don't know who makesthose like executive decisions,
but I feel like in America rightnow we're questioning daylight
savings, time, like the changeof times, and I just think that
we should just do an overhaulLike let's, let's just pay
better, you know, and get rid ofthe whole thing.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, I, you know, I agree.
I think it's something to do.
You know, same same.
We have the same struggle in inours it's it's like you know.
They say it's for the, for thefarmers, but, like you know, the
cows don't know what time it is.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
It's like it's a, it's all sweet yeah, the cows,
that's funny, oh my gosh.
Um.
And then last question what'sthe flight time?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
so you're in la um yeah, I don't know how flight
patterns work, but fromMelbourne to Los Angeles it's
just on 14 hours, but from LosAngeles back to Melbourne it's
16 hours.
So I don't know exactly why ittakes longer.
(11:03):
But one way you traveled for 15hours and landed at 8 am in LA
on the same day of the week.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So my word, that's with your head.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, thailand was 20 hours and I always thought it
was like much further, but maybefrom New York?
I'm not very smart with stufflike this.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's probably like 19, 20hours from New York.
You might need to do a stopover, so potentially takes like a
little bit longer if you'reneeding to stop.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's still worth it, though I would still pay.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, and there's not too many spotters to worry
about, so you're all good.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Oh, I mean I feel like we were just talking the
other day about all the stuff weexperienced in Thailand.
I mean, it just becomes normalat some point.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
A cockroach falls on your face while you're watching
TV and you're like, oh, anotherone.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, that's right.
Hopefully they do the nextWhite Lotus in Australia.
That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Hey, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I haven't watched this season.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
In thailand have are you watching it too, all my
guests?
Yeah, yeah, I just, yeah, I'vejust, I've just watched the
finale.
It's like it's, it's wild.
It's definitely, it'sdefinitely worth a watch.
Yeah, okay, okay, we need, weneed good tv.
Yeah, um, okay.
Well, you are known for, I'llsay, charting a new path in the
world of plant-based eating.
Um, and I feel like people whohave a commitment to this
lifestyle have a story as to why, like what, led them to that
choice.
So I would love to hear alittle bit about yours.
(12:31):
Did you always eat this way?
What led you to eat this way?
Tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
So mine was like less of anexciting story, more of a scary
story.
I had a health scare, I wasdiagnosed with a rare type of
blood cancer and I went throughthe traditional method of like
treatment.
But while I was doing mytreatment I was like, well, I've
got to give like my, you know,for the rest of my life.
(12:56):
I want to give my body like thebest chance to be nourished and
to be healthy, and so I had awhole bunch of time off and I
was at different diets and I wascoming across like the
Mediterranean diet and then wasreading about the blue zones and
looking at the diets which youknow were always coming up top
in terms of best for youroverall health, had limited
(13:18):
amounts of like meat to plantratio.
So I began sort of adaptingthat to my own lifestyle.
And then we had this really sortof beautiful moment where my
you know, that became my passionand there was also this really
great alignment with like umbusiness prowess and that was
(13:39):
becoming like really trendy, sowhere I was sort of like um, I
guess capitalized, and that'slike a really sweet moment if
you're working on somethingwhere you're really passionate
about the food but it also makesbusiness sense, um.
And so, yeah, I've just sort ofventured into that.
And then we had built a bigfollowing and sort of being like
we opened the first uh matchacafe in a in in australia and
(14:01):
then, yeah, just continue toevolve that where at the time we
were doing 100% plant-basedrestaurants, we sort of then
moved to, you know, a more likeall-inclusive menu where it's
like 75% is plant-based, a lotof the starters and the
cocktails and all those thingsare made plant-based.
But there are some meat options, there's some vegetarian
(14:21):
options, pescatarian options, soanyone can come in in feel
gluten-free, plant-based, super,love your meat, like.
Everyone can just like be happyand order without feeling like,
um, they're making a big deal Iwas thinking as you were
talking what does it feel liketo have 18 restaurants?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
is it like, yeah, is it heavy or is it?
Do you have a good team?
What does that feel like?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, it's.
You know, you sort of you needto be a sucker for punishment.
The my business partner in allmy adventures is my brother,
which is, which is great, butalso you don't want to spend too
much time together, so thatmeans you're like, oh, we're
going to open another venue, sowe're not in the same place at
the same time for too long.
But yeah, we've had like a.
(15:06):
We never had some restaurantswe had built up and then the
plan was to sell them and somewe had kept for a longer period
of time.
But yeah, our sort of biggestgodsend for us in terms of being
able to expand was being ableto partner with staff that we
had worked with for a while andgiving them a share within the
business.
And they know how we work, theyknow how we like to operate,
(15:29):
and then, you know, we alsoprovide them with the
opportunity for ownership andthey work even harder and even
better, and that seems to be theway for us to be able to, you
know, manage multiple venues atonce.
But, yeah, you know it, venuesat once.
But yeah, you, it's, you knowit's, it's, it's not relaxed,
it's not relaxing, it's um, youneed to be like, uh, incredibly,
(15:50):
incredibly organized and, yeah,it comes with.
You know you need an incredibleteam to to be able to pull off
even two venues.
So, yeah, it's, it's the peoplearound us that help us do that.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Wow, man, it's so much more than I think people
realize.
Like, especially what you do isso creative and so niche.
People must think like, oh,that's a dream and it is in one
aspect, but also like dynamic.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, there's you know a thousand things that go
into opening a restaurant andyou know it can appear to be a
glamorous thing, but, um, thebehind the scenes stuff, and you
know the.
The good thing is when, whenyou've um, you know, done it for
the length of time that I'vedone it, you sort of you've
you've dealt with almost everyissue.
(16:37):
So you sort of develop a senseof calmness because you know
whatever happens, there's like asolution for it.
So you know it's not alwaysthat way, but when you have
multiple venues you have okayand well, if something goes
wrong with a chef here, that'sunwell, we can actually, you
know, borrow some stuff fromanother than you.
But when you're starting off,sort of like it's so you know
(16:58):
everything feels so huge.
And then you know, looking back, you're like, well, I used to
stress about the tiniest thingand you know that's just.
Yeah, that's part of thejourney, I guess.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, that's a really good perspective.
I mean for all seasons of life,whatever you know, whatever
people are doing, right For sure, yeah Well.
So I've been joking lately withmy friends in my community.
I was like your typical beigemom for a while, have you?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
heard that term.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, like I was like the
poster child, and just recentlyI'm like, oh, color is kind of
nice, you know.
So I'm like stepping back intothat, but with that, one of the
first things I noticed aboutyour book when it was sent to me
was the vibrant color.
And it is gorgeous, like notjust the pages and the
characters in the book, andgorgeous Like not just the pages
and the characters in the book,and we can talk about that more
(17:44):
in a minute.
But your food is so vibrant and, from my understanding, none of
it is artificial.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, it's all natural.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, funnily enough, I'd just been living prior to
moving back to Melbourne lastyear.
I was living in Byron Bay,which is like beige, capital of
everything.
Like everyone is wearing beige,every house is beige, every
restaurant you walk into, thefit out is beige, so I
definitely know what you'refeeling.
But yeah, the beautiful thingabout eating is you know the
first.
You know we first eat with oureyes, so we look at the food and
(18:16):
we get excited by what we see,and so it's like.
It's such.
You know, and you know duringCOVID and we like TikTok.
You know people are coming likebetter chefs at home.
So in order for a restaurant tostand out, you really have to
go above and beyond for likepeople to come back.
And one of our sort of mostviral things we ever did was a
(18:37):
blue spirulina latte.
And the thing was this was backin 2016,.
There was no natural bluecolouring, so anytime something
had looked blue, it was alwaysartificial or looked like a
Smurf kind of thing.
So we kept hearing about thisnaturally derived, occurring
algae that had this mostincredible deep blue colour.
(18:58):
And at one of our cafes we hada matcha green latte and we had
a turmeric latte and we wantedto complete that rainbow and so
we invented this blue spirulinalatte and that just went bananas
online and then we sort of hadfollowed through and just seeing
that, like, people reallyappreciate the effort and the
(19:18):
colour, as long as it's actuallyadding value to the dish.
So, for example, there's arecipe, um, at one of our
italian restaurants we've done,which is for a blue spirulina
pasta.
But because, because the bluecoloring is like quite salty,
it's derived from underwater, uh, we, we prepare it with like a
seafood, a seafood pasta and aseaweed pasta, so it's actually
(19:42):
adding depth of flavor.
So it's not just for a gimmick,it looks good and it adds a
layer of flavor and complexityto the dish.
So I think, whenever you, ifyou ever see a color, if you're
just doing it just just forlikes or for the wrong reasons,
it won't pay off.
Like people will maybe come andtry it once but they won't come
(20:02):
back for it.
But if it's actually adding tothe, adding to what you're
tasting, adding to the story,adding depth, complexity,
whatever it's, that's that's howwe found, like great success in
using colors, um, and yeah, sothat's been, you know, part of
the story I feel like that waslike a $10,000 consulting tip,
(20:23):
yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Like everyone could send you money for that to all
the restaurants, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Well, we've just been going through like my partner,
she's all over TikTok and she'sdeciding where we're going for
our morning marches and coffeesand treats and some of them look
great, unbelievable online.
And then you get then and it'slike a bit of a miss, and then
(20:50):
some of them that actually dogreat online but the actual
product is phenomenal is thoseare the ones that's like have
lines out the front and seem tobe doing really well yeah,
that's a good reminder too, thatinstagram isn't always it, you
know like no, it's definitelynot.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You got to show up and give it a try yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah .
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Man, no, I'm all about aesthetic with food.
I think that sometimes, whenfood is made beautiful I talked
about this with a guest a fewweeks ago Like it's
misunderstood that people wantit to be like they think it
equals perfection, or like thehost, I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, what's yourimpression?
What like why?
Why is it important to you tomake food beautiful for people?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
well, I think it's just like it actually helps you
like enjoy the meal.
I think you like.
It's like you know we're verydistracted, but I think, like,
if you, if you see this likebeautiful meal in front of you
and the people you're with you,really get to like enjoy it and
soak it up and, you know, justjust really be mindful of what
you're consuming and think aboutwhat you're putting in your
(21:53):
mouth and like think about theeffort that's gone into prepare
this meal, rather than somethingthat's just sort of been
slapped together and it feelslike fast-paced, like the best
thing a restaurant can do istransport you to somewhere.
So you've had a stressful day.
You go to a nice restaurant andthen all of a sudden you're
just like you know the music'snice and then this amazing
beautiful thing drops in frontof you.
(22:13):
It's just going to transportyou away where you can, you know
, even just for a moment, forgetabout, like, your stressful day
, or you know that yeah, um,yeah, so that's always a bonus I
love that answer.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I think that we've started to see the table as like
something that gets in the wayof like yeah or gets in the way
of life, like it's annoying tocook, it's annoying to sit for
an hour, it's like I don't knowfor the listeners.
Just like maybe this week gosomewhere and order something
beautiful and just enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You know enjoy the beauty of it.
Yeah, yeah, and you know, Ithink it's like one of my
favorite lessons from my, youknow, italian nonna.
She, she's always cooking andalways bringing people together
and it's actually like you stopand think about it, how food is
like this amazing way that weconnect.
You know, we connect and we,you know whether it's with our
partner and you know like we haddone like a lot of traveling, a
(23:02):
lot of bits and pieces, andthen actually sitting opposite
her and like we're, you know,looking to each other's eyes and
we can know finally actuallylike catch up and be us and
connect, you know, really deeplyconnect.
It's like rather, you know,rather than the hustle and
bustle of travel.
So, yeah, definitely, if youget a chance next meal, whether
it's like at home or at arestaurant, just, yeah, take
that extra minute to enjoy andconnect and, yeah, just
(23:25):
appreciate how lovely it is tobe sharing a meal with people
you love.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, it's really good, love that conversation.
I also want to talk about yourNana just for a second.
I didn't tell you to ask abouther, but so I was reading about
her and then also in the contextof you having like a
plant-based platform, I wasthinking about my Italian
grandpa and I was like he wouldnot have known what to do with
plant-based Like that wasn't hisworld.
So how has she received this?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
like your focus, so, funnily enough, we had the
Australian book launch and wewere going to do a family one.
And then we're going to do likesort of a media and influencer
one and my grandmother's like,why don't we just do the whole
thing here?
So we had a whole bunch ofmedia and influencers and
everyone come to like my nonna'shouse, like literally in the
suburbs, like come to nonna'shouse.
(24:13):
We had over 100 people throughand she, like had prepared like
her recipes which are in thebook.
But it's like it's pretty funnyconversations because you're
like, okay, no, no, like whichare these recipes plant-based?
And she'd say, like thesearen't Cheeny Balls.
I'm like, oh well, like whichare these recipes plant-based?
And she'd say, like thesearen't Chini bowls.
I'm like, oh well, you'reactually buying the rice
together with the egg.
It's like you know, and she'slike, oh, don't worry about it.
(24:35):
And those kind of things whereit's like, and she's such a
phenomenal cook, she doesn'thave any recipes, she just does
everything by heart.
So actually trying to quantifyand write it down and script the
recipes was, you know, yeah,like this, such a fun experience
because she'd never really doneit before.
(24:56):
She just knows everything byheart.
But I think, yeah, she had likesuch a good time at the launch
and, yeah, she was like superproud and you know she's got a
photo in the book and that'sjust like you know, yeah,
probably one of my favoriteparts of the whole book.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, that's really sweet, that's good.
Will she eat the plant-basedstuff?
Will she try it?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, she does like her minestrone recipe, which is
part of the book.
That is like vegan as a thing.
It's just a whole bunch ofveggies.
She still thing it's just awhole bunch of veggies.
Um, she still thinks it's a bitfunny.
But you know, she's, she's,she's, she's more open to trying
it.
And uh, yeah, she's, yeah, she,she's got the same like 10
things she's loved eating forprobably 60 years and won't
(25:42):
stray too much from it.
Like I can't get her to trysushi, but you know she's, uh,
she's every now and then she'lltry some vegan things it sounds
just like my italiangrandparents.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I totally get it, and when I was told that I had to
eat gluten-free and I broughthome a gluten-free pasta, I wish
I knew what my grandpa wasswearing yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
he was like yeah like cussingit out of the kitchen.
Yeah, yeah, it's like just doit, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You know it's like yeah oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Um, okay.
So I always like doing this onmy episodes whenever a topic
might be unfamiliar to people.
I like going back and kind oflike defining things.
And so when we're talking aboutplant-based, can you kind of
like define it?
So what foods are like includedor excluded?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
so I think the the as far as from the restaurant side
, when we're saying we're aplant-based restaurant, there's
absolutely zero animal productwhat's with us.
So some like hardcore vegansthings like honey, like they
won't even use honey or evencall their partner honey.
(26:50):
But so when we go like 100%plant-based, that means we're
not using any animal productswhatsoever.
So for us I'm not sure if it'sdifferent over here, but for us
that's like but I thinkplant-based is a bit softer than
it's like saying vegan.
So plant-based is like I'mpredominantly, I'm plant
(27:12):
predominant, so I'm usuallymaking my diet for that.
But I might make certainexceptions when I feel like I
need a protein hit or I'm justlike really craving like some
eggs or some like a burger, orlike you know, I'm just going
out for pizza and so I'm justgoing to have a pizza and not
worry about it.
And I think that's the best wayto approach it and that's how I
do personally is not beingabsolute about it.
(27:34):
So I try to eat as well and asnourishing as I can, but also
being like I'm on holidays, Iwant to try all these new things
and, you know, not feeling badif you know, one meal out of X
amount is unhealthy or not 100%plant-based.
I think, I think that's thebest way forward for, for, for
(27:54):
all of us.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, no, I can stand behind that.
I love that definition too.
I should have written this down.
I was reading through some ofthe intro of the book and I
think you were addressing thequestion like is plant-based
healthier?
Like, will I lose weight, orwhatever, and you addressed like
three foods that wereplant-based.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
you're like cocaine yeah, cocaine, bread and oreos
are just like you know, they'reall like they're all plant-based
, but it's like you know, it'suh, yeah, it's.
It won't necessarily, um mean,you're going like eating vegan
or plant-based won't necessarilybe healthy and same with any
diet.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Like you just want to be making sure, however, you're
consuming food like do itmindfully and do it what works
for you and for your body yeah,I think I'm really thankful for
the way that food culture isgoing like I think we are we're
finally waking up, like we'refinally realizing we have, like
it's empowering actually to like, yeah, know that what you
choose could lead to health andthere are really good tasting
(28:49):
options, and I think that's whatyou're exposing us to too.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, for sure, and and I I guess in my sort of
visits, visits to the U?
S, they tend to be just sort oflike Los Angeles or New York,
which are, you know, probablyyou know, a bit more open to
those sort of things, but I'mnot so much sure on the middle
parts of America.
But I think, you know, as we'reevolving, we're learning more
(29:13):
and we're absorbing moreinformation, it's always going
to come out that these thingsare better for us.
It's not like new studies aregoing to come out and say, you
know, we should be eating like10 times more red meat.
It's like, you know, we've gotthe knowledge from, like these
blue zones where, you know, the,the, the people living the
healthiest, most fulfillinglives.
This is their diet and as muchas we can incorporate that like,
(29:34):
I think overall it's going tobe for the best.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, that's good, that's really good.
And I always tell people, ifyou're skeptical, try it for
yourself, like give it a solidtrial period and see how you
feel.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know, yeah, that's right and to be
completely plant-based requires,like, a lot of organization and
a lot of ingredient checking,and you know it can be quite
limiting at times and there'sparticular vitamins that you
might be missing out on, likevitamin B12.
So I think, like whatever dietyou choose, you just you know,
think of it from a wholeperspective, and you know a lot
(30:07):
of us.
Whatever our diet, think of itfrom a whole perspective, and
you know a lot of us whateverour diet, we're missing out on.
You know important dailyvitamins, so it's important to
make sure you're getting youknow much goodness as you can
yeah, it's good, good, good.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Well, I want to walk through some of the chapters.
I know not everyone's going tobe watching like video.
Um, some people might belistening, so I wanted to hold
it up because I love the visuals.
But let's go through eachchapter.
I would love for you to kind oflike you could take it whatever
direction, you could share apart of the chapter that you're
most excited for people to read,a recipe that you love in that
(30:40):
chapter, anything like that, andwe'll kind of look at it like
speed rounds, so okay.
So the first one.
Um, I just think this one isimportant in general, but where
do vegans get their protein?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
well, good question.
Uh, legumes are a great source,so beans, chickpeas, um, and
that goes back in.
So, in that in that chapterthere's non-asminastronies
recipes in there that has 15different vegetables, super high
in protein, super easy to cook.
Um, you can take um vegetablesthat are in your fridge that
(31:16):
like okay, I need to use theseup and you can pour them all
into a soup and make this likeincredible, incredible thing.
That like tastes like you're.
You know, it's like it's likeeating a hug, like it's so
amazing for you.
It's like that's.
That's probably like one of myfavorite things.
Um, and then experimenting incolor in that chapter there's
like, um, we use uh, quinoa likea, like an uncolored quinoa,
(31:38):
and we um brew it with somematcha tea and it goes like
electric green.
So you know you're getting theantioxidant boost from matcha
and getting like the proteinprotein boost from the quino
king mine.
So that'd be my favorites inthat chapter, for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Oh my gosh.
So I would love to be a fly onthe wall when you guys are like
recipe developing and justseeing like the color man.
Yeah, that's fun it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
It's.
The most common thing I hear islike the first thing they say
it's like no, like that'simpossible.
It's like so you know, becauseI'm like the um, I'm the
creative director, and like the,the restaurateur, but not I've
never been the head chef of therestaurant, but I've worked with
the most amazing chefs I'm like, okay, can we do this and can
we do this plant-based?
And can we?
(32:21):
You know it's?
Can we make it turn this color?
And can we make a cocktail thatwhen you add this, it turns
this color?
Usually time it it's no, but,like you know, thankfully, like
work with these amazing peoplethat like help me, like create
these crazy ideas, and like someare just like unattainable and
some are like, well, actually wecan do this, and it's like it's
my favorite part of the wholeprocess.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
That is, that's really fun.
Well, in this chapter you havea chicken schnitzel or like a
chicken right?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, yeah, so funnily enough we opened this
amazing plant-based cafe back in2016.
And you know, we had lines outthe door and, within sort of 12
months of opening, like thisgiant KFC opened up next door to
us and which you know and youcould sort of like from as you
(33:11):
walked out, you could, you know,you could get the waft of like
all the like, the deep fried,all the deep friedness.
Um, and so we, our sort of umreply to that was to come up
with like deep fried goodnessbut like to replicate, like
those like herbs and spices anddeliciousness and that homely
feeling you get from like eatinglike you know, fried goodness.
But we use jackfruit and thegreat thing about jackfruit is
(33:34):
it's like quite a neutral flavor.
So you can, you know, seasonand flavor it to whatever you
want to whatever you want tokind of replicate.
Um, we try not to like,especially now, like to to like
mock, do too much mock meat andthat kind of thing.
But this is our version of likea delicious, crispy fried
(33:55):
goodness and it was our sort oflike.
There you go, kfc.
It was like you know, if you'regonna do that, we're gonna do
this, and you know, and we stillhad lines at the door and you
know we were just that, was thatended up being like you know we
did like a popcorn, jackfruit,like the uh, the burger that you
mentioned, and they end upbeing like the most popular like
(34:17):
things on the menu.
So it's like, yeah, well, kfcis gonna open, what?
We're gonna do this and we'regonna be even busier I'm sure
the press loved that.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Did you get good for that?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
yeah, we did.
We gave away, like, um, we hadlike a golden, a golden nugget.
We we had partnered with uhQantas in Australia and we had
like, if you find the golden,like jackfruit nugget, um, you
win a trip to Japan.
So like we had this sort of likelike you know, it was like um
Melbourne restaurant's responseto KFC opening next door, and
(34:47):
they're like like yeah, we'redoing this, our version of like
deep fried goodness, and if youfind like the golden Jackfruit
nugget, you're going to win atrip to Japan.
And that just went banal for us, wow.
Oh gosh, you guys are geniusman Faking it till, we make it
or something I know, I mean,that's the real part of it,
right?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
Oh man, I love talking thislanguage, though it's good.
Um, okay, don't be upset, eatsome spaghetti.
And if you can, specifically,I'd love for you to talk about
the cheeses in here, because Ithink when people think
plant-based, they're like Ican't get cheese.
So can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
that's, that's the.
That's one one like um.
Insight is you cannot replicatethe same chemical experience
that happens in your brain whenyou eat.
Like traditional cheese, it'sjust short of like lacing it
with a tiny bit of cocaine.
You can't actually recreatelike a plant-based cheese that
(35:43):
has that same chemical thing.
And even my mum, who's likevegetarian for years, she just
can't cut out cheese.
But what we can do is createthese like epic alternatives.
So we do a soy one and a cashewone, um, and it's like again,
like you can flavor it to beabsolutely delicious.
So we do like um stuffedzucchini flowers.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I think you call them something else I know what
you're talking about, though,because I grew up with them.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, yeah, they're stuffed flowers yeah, um, we
call them zucchini flowers.
I think you call them somethingelse.
I know what you're talkingabout, though, because I grew up
with them.
Yeah, yeah, they're stuffedflowers.
Yeah, um, zucchini flowers, youmight call them something else.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Um, I know what you mean.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, and you can flavor this like amazing, like
soy ricotta, and flavor likespinach and garlic and
deliciousness.
So when you're eating ittogether with the flour, it's
just absolutely incredible.
So at our sydney restaurant wemade all our entree, so it
wasn't 100 plant, we made allour entrees.
So it wasn't 100% plant-based,but all the entrees were.
So you're like if you order theflowers, they come, you're
(36:36):
going to eat them and you'regoing to be like this is amazing
and you're not even going toknow that it's plant-based.
You're just like this isdelicious, good food and that
was our whole thing.
We wanted you to come into therestaurants and go like I'm
going to order pancakes that areincredible, pancakes that just
happen to be vegan, rather thanbeing like these are the vegan
pancakes Because we want you togo.
This is amazing, regardless ofwhatever your dietary thing is.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
I love that we're talking about this because I
think we're moving away fromthis, but for so long, healthy
food equals tofu and gluten-freeequals cardboard.
It's like, man, we've come sofar, like if that's the last
time you tried eating healthy,like it's time to try again yeah
, and and and.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
In a lot of ways, like the plant-based world, and
and and.
For us and for this book, itactually opened up this whole
realm of creativity, like a newway to like invent, like cooking
and consuming food and justlike you know, as you said, it
would appear that there was likelimitations on food and our
biggest thing was going likethere's nothing, almost nothing,
(37:42):
that we can't make.
That's going to be incredible,that's going to satisfy that
craving.
But, yeah, that's a huge partof why we were successful in
that time.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Wow, wow well, this one.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I've been spending a lot, of, a lot of time drooling
over but, um no, telling me whatto do so talk about the dessert
aspect of this yeah, and againit's like you're going into that
same thing, like thetraditional nutella that's not
made like, that's not actuallycompletely plant-based and has
some animal product in it.
So we're like any version ofanything we can make and we can
(38:17):
make and it's going to bedelicious.
It won't necessarily be exactlythe same, but it's going to be
delicious and it'll keep youcoming back for it.
And in that same way of likehow can we reimagine things?
It was like how can wereimagine pasta to be dessert?
So we made these like Nutellaravioli.
(38:37):
So we used like our chocolatehazelnut spread and it's like
the traditional pasta, but likeit's made like with a variation
to be slightly sweeter.
But it's still like thisdelicious dumpling that you're
eating and then Nutella's oozingout and the ice cream's on the
sweeter.
But it's still like thisdelicious dumpling that you're
eating and then Nutella's oozingout and the ice cream's on the
top, and it's just like this.
You know, it's like youprobably don't necessarily want
to have like carbs on the topsof carbs, like have another
(39:00):
pasta after your thing, but itwas just like it's so delicious
that it's just like.
You know, like I'll have asmall amount of a small entree
and then like this, like saveroom for these, like nutella
ravioli it sounds like you knowgirl dinner, it's like, yeah,
yeah, yeah, like a caesar saladand nutella ravioli.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's awesomeman, were you gonna?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
say something else.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I don't want to cut you off um, no, well, if I'm,
and maybe mentioned it before.
But so there's a plant-basedrestaurant out in Los Angeles
called Gracious Madre, which is,you know, one of the most
beautiful dining rooms that I'veever been to, like this
incredible outdoor courtyard,and that was like the epiphany
moment that I had because it wasplant-based and I was there
(39:48):
with some friends and we'resmashing these tacos and you
know, 10 margaritas deep, andyou just, it hadn't even come
into my mind for a second thatwe were eating plant-based and
that's the thing that we weretrying to recreate.
Now, things like we walk intothe restaurant, nothing about it
really says like plant-based asyou walk in.
But it's just, we applied thatconcept to like a cool Melbourne
(40:08):
brunch cafe, so you walk in.
But it's just, we applied thatconcept to like a cool melbourne
brunch cafe, so you walk in.
The music's good, there'ssmashed avocado, there's
pancakes, there's good coffee,there's matcha, but it just
happens to be vegan.
So it was like that those sortof things were like hadn't quite
happened in australia.
At the time I was very like inyour face and preachy about that
way, but I think if you do itin a more like relaxed,
inclusive way, you're actuallygoing to get.
(40:31):
You know, like, if you say, oh,this is vegan or I'm vegan for
that, a lot of people will justcompletely switch off.
Where it's like, yeah, like youknow, we're open to everything
and this stuff is delicious, andyou know, it just happens to be
plant-based, you can actuallyget like more people on board.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's good .
I, as you were saying that Iwas thinking like with everyday
hospitality too.
I used to have a catering, aspecial diet catering company.
I never did plant-basedspecifically, but it was gluten
and dairy free mostly, and mykind of like motto was like food
, so good, everyone wants to eatit.
So clean, everyone can.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, and thatwas the thing Like you tell me
what restrictions your guest has, I'm going to make a spread and
(41:09):
everyone will enjoy eating it,and we didn't even like put
little like tags out or anything, cause that's the thing Like if
people know, sometimes itchanges the experience, right.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
For sure.
And this and the same thingthat was our philosophy in the
restaurants now, which is like,whatever your dietary thing, you
can look on the menu and you'renot like you don't have to be
like, oh, can I have the gluten?
Is this available gluten-freeor is this available dairy-free?
Like there's just so manyoptions that everybody feels
comfortable and whoever getsthat, whether they're
gluten-free or dairy-free or not, it's going to be delicious.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, oh man, this is like a tease.
This is like a really bad teasefor me, because I'm like it's
too far, I can't like end thiscall and just head there.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah one day.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
One day, yeah, that's right, it's not too far from
thailand.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
So you know, next, next, next big trip, you head
out, head down there you goweekend away.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah, um, this last one that I wanted to talk about.
I love that you included in thebook, um, because I'm just
getting more creative with mydrink options, but giving me the
Spritz.
Talk to us about this.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah.
So it's like, it's amazing whenyou look into it and you know
we're opening this like thistrendy sort of restaurant, a
Spritz bar in Sydney, and youknow, looking through, like you
know trying to do, trying to belike all the drinks will be
plant-based and thinking likethis is super easy.
And then you actually lookthrough and you're like, well,
(42:34):
this has egg white and then thisliqueur has, like milk
particles and this thing is madewith, like this, food colouring
that's derived from animals andall that sort of thing.
So for us it actually presentedthis new opportunity for like
again, like for innovation, andjust to show that like there's
nothing that can't be done.
(42:55):
That's like, you know,delicious frothy, like aquafaba
kind of cocktail based thing,and you know we make a like
hazelnut lagroni.
Um, we, yeah, there's like theaquafaba, like a peach sour, a
chili, margarita, espresso,martini, any of these things
that I like, you know, andthat's my favorite part to taste
(43:19):
test and it's amazing how goodyou can become at writing a book
after you've.
When you're on the cocktailchapter, you just start to be
free flowing while you're doingthat taste test.
But yeah, it's just me samething, like if you come cocktail
, you just you start to befree-flowing while you're doing
that taste test.
But yeah, it just means samething, like if you come to the
restaurant, you don't even haveto worry about, like is this,
does this have dairy, or doesthis thing?
This is just, like you know, adelicious cocktail and it's
(43:40):
going to be.
You don't have to worry aboutthat thing man, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I I've talked about this on the show because I've
had a few like alcohol brands onrecently or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, I am so lame withmy drinks, like seriously so
lame, like red wine girl throughand through and I'm like okay
time to time to grow up.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Katie, it's time to explore red wine's a magical
place to be, but yeah it is yeah, yeah and I think I think
there's been, there's been.
One thing I have seen is um youknow, innovation in the
non-alcoholic beverages as wellwhich is sort of like um making
a play.
But the next sort of thing thatI can see sort of coming is
(44:20):
things that are like um, likewe're going to a nice restaurant
, we don't want to drink alcoholbut we also don't want to drink
a mocktail like a fake gin or afake syrup or anything like
that, so like functional sort oftonics where it's like this
might have like some mushroomextract or any of those things.
So I think all the non-alcoholicalternatives, they're going to
(44:42):
be like done in like martiniglasses and look really
interesting, but not actually belike mock, like like trying to
replicate something.
But you can go out to like afun dinner and be like I'm gonna
have like this mushroom sodatonic and it's gonna come out
and it's gonna change colors andit's gonna be in a martini
glass and you'll feel reallygood about it afterwards.
(45:04):
Wow yeah.
And in addition to that, saylike you are having margarita,
like adding, like you know, lesssugar and like some ginger, so
there's like, you know, it'slike a you're gonna feel better
the next day and you're gonnawant to keep drinking them and
yeah, it's like it's a it's yeah, it's a huge scope for
innovation.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
So I could stand.
I could stand behind that verycool man.
Well, I don't know if you wantto talk about this slash can,
but I've heard that you've hadsome pretty noteworthy guests at
your restaurant, are you?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
comfortable.
Yes, a restaurant, yeah, surething.
Are you okay talking about it?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, so who have you seen?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Well, funnily enough, so regular this is going back
12 years I got to know a regularcouple that were, you know,
they'd come in three or fourtimes a week, always ordered the
same thing, and we becamereally good friends and they
would come to like our staffevents and, you know, we had a
whole bunch of people that weredoing that.
(45:59):
And then, almost, like I'd saylike almost a year into our
friendship, and they said ourkids are coming in, and so they,
they brought their kids intothe restaurant and it happened
to be the three Hemsworthbrothers.
And so this is going back like,yeah, probably 11 years ago now
(46:22):
, and so I hadn't realized atthe time that you know that,
that that I had in fact beenfriends with the parents of
Chris, liam and Luke and um,then, yeah, so we sort of had
built like an amazing friendshipover those 10 or 12 years where
, um, you know, and they'rebeing like incredibly supportive
(46:42):
, like Chris did an article inthe New York Times and said what
should people do when they goto to?
Um, come to Melbourne.
He's like I'll go, like go toMark's restaurant, match a milk
bar.
So, um, they've been, you know,as beautiful as they are, you
know, on the outside, they'reactually even better humans on
the inside.
So, um, it's, yeah, that that'sa really uh beautiful, like
(47:04):
natural friendship that'sdeveloped.
And I think, when you're on thecusp of innovation in food,
like you know, particularly likeathletes, or you know people
that take good care of theirbody, they do want to come and
like, check out these new thingsand eat at those places, and so
you're always meeting likeincredible, incredible
(47:25):
individuals and, yeah, that'ssort of a that's been like one
of the you know, looking back onthe journey and all the
incredible people you meet.
It's it's absurd in many ways,but yeah, it's, it's.
It's a really beautifulfriendship that I've built over
a long time.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
It's definitely worth celebrating because, like you,
you just called it a journey.
It's definitely a reflection ofthe journey, of all the years
of innovation and creating andtrial and error that opened
those doors.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
So yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah yeah, and and you
know the, the, all my friends,including those people I would
say like, have have like adown-to-earth and
good-heartedness in common andso that's just.
You know you see people incertain contexts and you know
it's.
You know, especially in LA,that celebrity, celebrity thing
(48:11):
gets you know glamorized, butlike, really it's just like good
people and you know down toearth and yeah, that's.
Yeah, you know you it's, if youhave good friends, like that's
a good recipe for life.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I reckon yeah, yeah, yeah, real good.
Well, I just realized wehaven't even said the name of
the book yet.
I'm like, oh my gosh, 45minutes in haven't said the name
of it.
Well, tell us the name of thebook and what you're excited for
people to experience when theyget it.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, so it's this cookbook is a huge mistake, is
the?
So, yeah, one of our cafes wehad this neon sign back when
neon signs were trendy.
That said, eating here is ahuge mistake because it was
plant-based and you know it wassuper, always photographed and
always spoken about.
So taking that sort ofphilosophy and going, you know
(49:02):
this cookbook is a huge mistake.
This is out on steak and ifyou're a steak lover and you
happen to buy it, sorry aboutthat, but you know, just try
some recipes and it's like happydays.
I'm like a pun lover, dad jokelover, and this is sort of like,
more than anything like thisbook is like where all my puns
had somewhere to go and you knowlike every recipe is like has
(49:26):
has a pun name, there's a pun atthe start of the recipe and
it's just about like makingthings fun.
And you know the the.
You know people would come upand say one of the smoothies was
like if you know any vegetablepuns, let us know.
And so they'd come to thecounter and say, hey, can I
please have one of the?
If you know any vegetable puns,let us know.
And you see their smiles andit's just, you know, it's all
(49:48):
about adding to the experienceof just.
You know, let's createsomething fun and get you to
smile, even if it's cheesy.
You know, it's just that's partof that.
But I think I sort of wrote,started writing the book.
Australia had some crazylockdown laws, in particular in
Melbourne, and Melbourne, Ithink, is like the longest in
(50:08):
the world of lockdowns, and inorder to get from Melbourne to
the next state, I had toquarantine in a hotel for two
weeks and you do not, youliterally don't see anyone for
two weeks.
So you're locked in a room,you've got a window that doesn't
open and food gets delivered,it gets sort of.
(50:31):
There's a knock at the door andthen you have to wait a minute
for the person to drop it, toleave, and then you open it and
and that's your life for twoweeks, right?
So the only person you see isthe nurse that comes and takes
your covid test, which is so, sowild and absurd to think about.
You know us, all of us,collectively having to go
through that.
But, um, I had, you know, had afew drinks on the first night in
(50:55):
there and then woken up likehungover and being in this room
and just gone like you know whatif I do this every night, like
I am not gonna, I don't know ifI'll make it through, like I'll
probably just like go back toMelbourne or something.
So, um, I decided to start sortof like you know, looking back
on the journey and just justjust writing some recipes and
(51:17):
going like, oh yeah, at thatrestaurant, this, this, this
recipe was super popular at that.
I remember, like that, whatthat person said about like
these were the best pancakesI've ever had.
By the end of the two weeks Ihad the outline of what would
resemble a book.
(51:40):
And then, I think, as anovershare, my self-worth was so
tied into my business and we hadsix restaurants in lockdown,
operating under strict lockdownconditions, and so I went
through like a bit of a darkchapter.
And then it was on the otherside of that, which is my
friends and family and thepeople that helped me get
(52:02):
through that, that I was thenable to go look back at the
whole journey and think abouthow unbelievable it's been and
how, like it wasn't the moneyand it wasn't this success that
I actually loved or enjoyedabout it, but it was like the
people I met, the places I gotto travel to the people's day we
made when they were coming tothe thing.
(52:22):
So I've tried to like, add therecipes, add that story, add,
like my better life lessons thatyou know if I, you know who
knows if I'm qualified to sharethem.
But that's part of my story Ihave to tell and I just wanted
to include that and that's soyou sort of get a bit of that,
get some really bad jokes andyou get, like some you know
(52:44):
pretty good recipes.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
I'm so glad that you shared that part of it.
I think it's so important forpeople to know because it helps
us to get to know you better,the road to the book better.
You know like it's.
It's a more full, it's a fullerpicture, which I love sharing.
Yeah, and I love a good likebeauty from ashes story you know
, yeah, for sure because itencourages people in the thick
of it.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
It's like yeah, yeah and I think, I think you know
there's sort of there's, no,there's no journey without like
that's like truly fulfillingwithout some sort of you know,
no, it's like a movie likewithout like the the challenging
part.
Or you know there's there's,there's the feeling at the end
of it.
I think it's.
It would be less fulfillingwithout those challenges for
(53:27):
sure.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Wow.
Well, that was a very profoundway to end the conversation, but
we are going to attach the linkto get the book and the show
notes and the link to your, yoursite and everything as well,
all the ways to find you.
But we end each of ourconversations with the same
three questions and I'd love tohear your answers as well.
The first one is something youhave eaten recently and loved.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Perfect.
So, Eden, I don't know if I cango through like it's a little
bit of a, it's not quite eating,but I had Community Goods, this
cafe in LA, the matcha that Ihad there, and I've been on a
matcha tour and this is by farthe best matcha I've ever had,
so that's probably like the mostmemorable thing that I've had
(54:18):
in the last few days.
Is that an acceptable answer?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
I have something to admit to you, though.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
I have never had matcha do you just like I I
still need, like, I still um mypartner.
She loves matcha, but I stilllike we still have to have a
coffee before I have my matcha.
So I still like, I'm still likean og, I still need my og
(54:46):
coffee.
So, yeah, um that's my thing.
I've never wanted to give up mycoffee yeah, um, and then so
I'll yeah, yeah, I can't, I'llnever be able to.
Okay, I don't think so, umthat's fair there was.
There was this uh, amazing,there's another australian
restaurant that's doing so sowell, well, out here, called
Great White, and they did thisbanana bread.
(55:07):
That was just mind-blowing andit's just a simple thing and I
was just like I'd seen them.
They had like a small littlestore in Santa Monica and now
I've seen like there was one onMarchmont Boulevard and there
was one on Melrose in LA and Iknow they're expanding I was
just like, just like super,super happy for them that like
this, you know, these, this crewof Aussies, this restaurant
(55:30):
called Great White, are doing,you know, showcasing like
amazing Australian brunch, and Ithink that's that's definitely
one of my favorite things I'veeaten very interesting.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
It's cool what makes it right.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
It's like yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah a
simple thing, but done like thatis absolutely magical.
So, yeah, nostalgic.
Yeah, it's like yeah, yeah,that's right.
Yeah, yeah, a simple thing, butdone like that is absolutely
magical.
So, yeah, nostalgic yeah, it'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Um, how about sorry, excuse me a gathering you
attended that made you feel astrong sense of belonging and,
if you could pinpoint it, whatit was that made you feel that
way?
Speaker 2 (56:01):
um, yeah, like this, this really surreal moment, this
meditation studio in VeniceBeach called Open and it was a
friend of mine who had openedMelbourne's first meditation
studio and Melbourne probablywasn't quite ready for that
(56:24):
market.
And he's taken this, this, thishuge risk to come out and open
this studio in venice beach andit was this incredible sound
meditation that you're doingwith like 50 other people and
it's like a tuesday night andit's absolutely packed and
you're just breathing andmeditating together and you're
going through these like deepemotions.
(56:45):
And you know, you just lookaround and at the end of the
together and you're goingthrough these like deep emotions
and you know, you just lookaround and at the end of the
class and you, you, you know youlook into the person sitting
next to his eyes and you just,you know you feel seen and you,
hopefully the person that you'relooking to feel sick, because
you know we are way more similarand we are different as human
beings and that was just like areally like you know, I think
(57:10):
sometimes in LA it can be a bitfast-paced and you miss that.
So that was really beautiful tosee this meditation studio
called Open.
That was just, you know, wasbringing all these random people
together and creating this, youknow, for an hour, was creating
this really beautiful moment.
So that was sort of probablylike the highlight from this
(57:30):
trip.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Yeah, wow, that's really unique.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Yeah, um, well, last but not least, uh, something
you've discovered lately thatyou think everyone should know
about a Netflix show Amazonpurchase anything like that oh,
there's this wild show onNetflix called Apple Cider
Vinegar and it's about thisAustralian girl and she was a
regular at our cafes and she was, as she's depicted, like I
(57:57):
can't remember the name of theAmerican actress, she's like
unbelievable.
So this girl's name was BelleGibson.
So this girl, her name wasBelle Gibson.
She was like the originalinfluencer in Melbourne.
She had like a millionfollowers before anyone did and
(58:26):
she'd built her following sayingshe'd cured herself from a rare
type of brain cancer fromeating whole foods, which is not
possible.
But she just built a followingand told people and how to deal
with like Apple computers in SanFrancisco and eventually, after
four or five years, it turns,you know, people start
questioning things and it turnsout that she's like made this
whole thing up and it was wildnews in Australia when it
(58:46):
happens.
And it was wild for like us inthe restaurant industry and
she'd come into our restaurantand post all the time and she
was a bit flirty and she waslike always like, touchy and
like, and then you see the waythey do this thing and I was
like, oh my God, it was likelike they captured her so well
and it's such a story of howlike people can present
themselves in one way and justbe like apps and gain a
(59:10):
following and be able to preachhealth and all these kind of
things, but have no like actual,like study or basis to actually
be able to preach it.
And it was that was like likecaptivating.
Like watched six episodes backto back because you know they
were showing cafes that that youknow they weren't.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
Um, that like represented melbourne and I was
like, oh yeah, I know that, Iknow that and that, so that was
that's worth a watch for sureapple cider vinegar those, yeah
those shows like pull you in andthey also like scare you right
yes, yes, so scary yeah man youso that no one's talked about it
in that much depth.
But that show and White Lotus,like my past six interviews,
(59:52):
that's like everyone's answer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
And what?
Yeah, I mean, you know I wasjust watching the yeah, the last
episode of I was trying to waittill I got back home to watch
it, but just keep seeing it popup and people talking about, I'm
like, oh, I need, I need towatch it because, like you know,
it's not going to be a secretfor much longer than I want,
right yeah, such an epic show,that's the worst.
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
When someone gives a spoiler, yeah, that's right.
Well, thank you so much,goodness.
We are so excited for you, um,and for the launch of this book,
and we will tag everything inthe show notes and be sure to
follow along.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Guys, so beautiful chatting with you, thank you
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Well, guys we will see you next week.
Hey, hey guys, welcome back to Making Room.
I'm so glad you're here.
If you followed along, myfamily just got back from
Nashville area and, gosh, it wasa really sweet week.
At this point, I'm sure most ofyou have made your way there,
but if you haven't, I cannotrecommend it enough.
And I'm not talking likeBroadway, like drink your way
down Broadway, no-transcript,eating down to the source, like
(00:54):
as close as I can get to thesource, gluten-free, dairy-free,
learning as much as I can alongthe way.
But I will admit thatplant-based eating, a
plant-based lifestyle, is notone that I'm like super well
versed in or knowledgeable on.
But there is this plant-basedbakery near us that I have been
frequenting.
I'm paying someone's salary andI don't know what they bake
(01:18):
with, but it's been pretty danggood.
So, with all of this considered, I'm really curious to dive
into this conversation more, andour guest today, mark, is the
perfect person to lead thatconversation.
We were talking very quicklybefore we hit record.
He's our first guest fromAustralia, and we have a few
friends from Australia, a fewfriends from New Zealand that we
met in Thailand, but we haven'tmade our way there yet, and so
(01:39):
I'm having a little bit of FOMO,but this is going to be really
sweet in a lot of different ways.
So if you do not know aboutMark, here is a little bit more
about him.
Mark is the founder of thisnumber is like crazy to me not
one, not two, not even three 18restaurants in Melbourne, sydney
(02:00):
, byron Bay, and now officiallyan author.
Mark is sharing the mostpopular recipes from the journey
, including some of Nana'shomemade recipes, in the form of
a cookbook.
I come from Italian roots too.
My listeners know that, knownfor pushing culinary boundaries
at his many venues, includingthe insta-famous Matcha Milk Bar
and Sydney's Mark and Vinny's,these Mark and Vinny's, mark's
(02:27):
latest labor of love promises adeliciously entertaining blend
of creative plant-based recipes,heartfelt life lessons and
stories and playful puns.
Guys, I promise you there isnot a cookbook on the market
like this one.
I'm so excited to bring it toyour attention and, without
waiting any longer, here's.
My conversation with Mark Todaywas glorious.
I sat outside, worked on thepatio while Wesley played and
(02:50):
just soaked up the sun, and Iwas so happy.
I was thinking how could Ipossibly spend more time outside
this season, because it goes byway too fast, and I'm sure
you've seen those memes.
I feel solar powered, likeliterally the sun makes me come
alive.
Well, guys, we know how to makethat possible.
(03:11):
Going on a vacation is the bestway to enjoy the season the
summer, the sunshine, the heat,oh my gosh, all of the goodness
that comes with it.
And if you are like me, you arealso working and parenting
while dreaming about vacation.
Well, I have a solution for you, and that is my friend
Stephanie.
She is a travel agent, a memorymaking specialist, and she
(03:36):
specializes in Sandals Resorts,beaches Resorts, the Caribbean
and Disney.
And if you are wondering why inthe world would I hire a travel
agent?
Because, honestly, beforechatting with her, that's
exactly what I thought.
That's where I felt, or fell inthinking about it.
She showed me why.
It doesn't cost you a dime, youdon't have to pay anything to
(03:58):
work with her.
Simply tell her where you'reinterested in going, or she
could share her ideas with you,and then she gives you access to
the best deals, the bestopportunities, and takes oh my
goodness, takes the stress outof it.
She sets everything else up sothat you could just arrive and
enjoy your vacation and soak upthe sun, just like we're talking
(04:19):
about.
Head on over to her Instagram atTravel With Stephanie, and she
spells her name S-T-E-P-H-A-N-Iand start the conversation.
She is so easy to work with, sopersonable, she loves family,
loves luxury, and will help youget a little taste of all of it.
And if you are interested inplanning a trip, you don't know
(04:40):
where to start.
You need some ideas.
Let me give you one.
Stephanie and I are headed toAntigua Antigua guys, I need to
learn how to properly say this,but you probably know what we're
talking about In September andwe want you to come with us,
whether you just want to sit bythe pool and have nobody talk to
you, but you want theall-inclusive aspect, great.
(05:00):
Come.
If you want to come with us andvolunteer at a local community
with us, engage in some of thegirls' trip activities that we
have planned, great.
As of right now, this pricedefinitely can and will change.
It is $1,500 a person and therooms are priced for double
occupancy, so what that means istwo people to a room.
(05:21):
You split the cost and yourcost hovers around $1,500.
That includes the airfare, thelodging, 15 dinners and 25
breakfasts.
If you want to eat your heartout, come with us to Antigua.
Sandals Resort, antigua inTomato, tomato Antigua Antigua.
Come with us.
We want you there.
Head on over to Stephanie'sInstagram to start the
(05:44):
conversation, or slide into myDMs and I'll get you connected
as well.
Hi, I'm Katie, a hospitalityeducator and the host of Making
Room by Gather podcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness, andwith it I was given a choice to
(06:07):
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it.
And for me, that meant twothings that I needed the healing
to learn how to accept aninvitation and the confidence to
know how to extend one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through Making Room by Gather,you will hear conversations from
(06:28):
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
the table, but can I tell yousomething?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Okay, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Good.
Well, I didn't want to framethis question in a way that
would like make you give anegative answer, but I want you
to do some comparing.
So talking Australia and USwhat are the big differences?
What do you love about each?
Talk to us about it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Well, yeah, definitely love both amazing
communities in each.
If you, I think the few peopleI've been chatting to while I've
been here, they're like we loveAustralia but, um, there's too
many spiders, but that's that's.
That's not a real thing.
I've probably seen like onespider in the last two years.
You just gently like usher itout if that's the case, um, but
(07:34):
I think, particularly with thehospitality industry, um, and I
know it's sort of slightlychanging, but, um, the amount
that we in Australia like we pay, it's like significantly better
, there's more opportunities forthe employees, and I feel like
in some ways, we do that.
But in a lot of ways, australiafollows like the US.
(07:56):
Like the matcha cafes that arecool out here they open here
first and then they open thereand New York, like the food
concepts, the salad bars, allthose sorts of things tend to
happen out here, and then they,you know, make their way like
trickle down to australia.
But, um, we're yeah, we're likewe're family australia in the
us and and and we're more incommon.
(08:19):
We have more in common than wedo have differently.
But yeah, there's definitelysome.
Uh, australia is a great placefor opportunity.
You know, if you work, you knowthe hourly rates for like a
base cafe work is like $30 anhour Monday to Friday, $35 on
Saturday and $40 on Sundays.
And there's additional rateslike penalty rates once you sort
(08:42):
of hit overtime and late atnight and on public holidays and
those sorts of things.
So if you're willing to sort ofwork you can actually make
money to the point where you canchange your circumstances,
which I know in America is quitedifficult.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, Wow.
So I don't know if you'vecaught on to this.
There's a huge conversation inculture right now American
culture on tipping and you areannoyed at, like all the places
they're being asked to tip.
So is that the same inaustralia?
What's, what's the case?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
um, yeah, great question.
It's yeah, and just sort ofbeen experiencing that this past
week or so.
Um, you know it, the becausebecause the the pay is like
quite well, um, you would onlyreally tip for like really
exceptional service, but youalso, like, the tax is included.
So you know exactly how muchyou're going to pay, like when
(09:34):
you go pay your bill, when youpay for a coffee, when you pay
for a T-shirt, when you pay foranything, you just go, that's
the amount.
So, whereas here it's sort oflike you know, you see the price
and then you're taxed andyou're like add the tip and it's
.
You know, I think it'd be muchbetter if, um, you know the
staff got paid really well andwhat they deserve, and you just
say this is how much I'm goingto pay and that's what you paid.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I think that'd probably be a much better thing
yeah, I don't know who makesthose like executive decisions,
but I feel like in America rightnow we're questioning daylight
savings, time, like the changeof times, and I just think that
we should just do an overhaulLike let's, let's just pay
better, you know, and get rid ofthe whole thing.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, I, you know, I agree.
I think it's something to do.
You know, same same.
We have the same struggle in inours it's it's like you know.
They say it's for the, for thefarmers, but, like you know, the
cows don't know what time it is.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
It's like it's a, it's all sweet yeah, the cows,
that's funny, oh my gosh.
Um.
And then last question what'sthe flight time?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
so you're in la um yeah, I don't know how flight
patterns work, but fromMelbourne to Los Angeles it's
just on 14 hours, but from LosAngeles back to Melbourne it's
16 hours.
So I don't know exactly why ittakes longer.
(11:03):
But one way you traveled for 15hours and landed at 8 am in LA
on the same day of the week.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So my word, that's with your head.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, thailand was 20 hours and I always thought it
was like much further, but maybefrom New York?
I'm not very smart with stufflike this.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's probably like 19, 20hours from New York.
You might need to do a stopover, so potentially takes like a
little bit longer if you'reneeding to stop.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's still worth it, though I would still pay.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, and there's not too many spotters to worry
about, so you're all good.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Oh, I mean I feel like we were just talking the
other day about all the stuff weexperienced in Thailand.
I mean, it just becomes normalat some point.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
A cockroach falls on your face while you're watching
TV and you're like, oh, anotherone.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, that's right.
Hopefully they do the nextWhite Lotus in Australia.
That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Hey, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I haven't watched this season.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
In thailand have are you watching it too, all my
guests?
Yeah, yeah, I just, yeah, I'vejust, I've just watched the
finale.
It's like it's, it's wild.
It's definitely, it'sdefinitely worth a watch.
Yeah, okay, okay, we need, weneed good tv.
Yeah, um, okay.
Well, you are known for, I'llsay, charting a new path in the
world of plant-based eating.
Um, and I feel like people whohave a commitment to this
lifestyle have a story as to why, like what, led them to that
choice.
So I would love to hear alittle bit about yours.
(12:31):
Did you always eat this way?
What led you to eat this way?
Tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
So mine was like less of anexciting story, more of a scary
story.
I had a health scare, I wasdiagnosed with a rare type of
blood cancer and I went throughthe traditional method of like
treatment.
But while I was doing mytreatment I was like, well, I've
got to give like my, you know,for the rest of my life.
(12:56):
I want to give my body like thebest chance to be nourished and
to be healthy, and so I had awhole bunch of time off and I
was at different diets and I wascoming across like the
Mediterranean diet and then wasreading about the blue zones and
looking at the diets which youknow were always coming up top
in terms of best for youroverall health, had limited
(13:18):
amounts of like meat to plantratio.
So I began sort of adaptingthat to my own lifestyle.
And then we had this really sortof beautiful moment where my
you know, that became my passionand there was also this really
great alignment with like umbusiness prowess and that was
(13:39):
becoming like really trendy, sowhere I was sort of like um, I
guess capitalized, and that'slike a really sweet moment if
you're working on somethingwhere you're really passionate
about the food but it also makesbusiness sense, um.
And so, yeah, I've just sort ofventured into that.
And then we had built a bigfollowing and sort of being like
we opened the first uh matchacafe in a in in australia and
(14:01):
then, yeah, just continue toevolve that where at the time we
were doing 100% plant-basedrestaurants, we sort of then
moved to, you know, a more likeall-inclusive menu where it's
like 75% is plant-based, a lotof the starters and the
cocktails and all those thingsare made plant-based.
But there are some meat options, there's some vegetarian
(14:21):
options, pescatarian options, soanyone can come in in feel
gluten-free, plant-based, super,love your meat, like.
Everyone can just like be happyand order without feeling like,
um, they're making a big deal Iwas thinking as you were
talking what does it feel liketo have 18 restaurants?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
is it like, yeah, is it heavy or is it?
Do you have a good team?
What does that feel like?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, it's.
You know, you sort of you needto be a sucker for punishment.
The my business partner in allmy adventures is my brother,
which is, which is great, butalso you don't want to spend too
much time together, so thatmeans you're like, oh, we're
going to open another venue, sowe're not in the same place at
the same time for too long.
But yeah, we've had like a.
(15:06):
We never had some restaurantswe had built up and then the
plan was to sell them and somewe had kept for a longer period
of time.
But yeah, our sort of biggestgodsend for us in terms of being
able to expand was being ableto partner with staff that we
had worked with for a while andgiving them a share within the
business.
And they know how we work, theyknow how we like to operate,
(15:29):
and then, you know, we alsoprovide them with the
opportunity for ownership andthey work even harder and even
better, and that seems to be theway for us to be able to, you
know, manage multiple venues atonce.
But, yeah, you know it, venuesat once.
But yeah, you, it's, you knowit's, it's, it's not relaxed,
it's not relaxing, it's um, youneed to be like, uh, incredibly,
(15:50):
incredibly organized and, yeah,it comes with.
You know you need an incredibleteam to to be able to pull off
even two venues.
So, yeah, it's, it's the peoplearound us that help us do that.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Wow, man, it's so much more than I think people
realize.
Like, especially what you do isso creative and so niche.
People must think like, oh,that's a dream and it is in one
aspect, but also like dynamic.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, there's you know a thousand things that go
into opening a restaurant andyou know it can appear to be a
glamorous thing, but, um, thebehind the scenes stuff, and you
know the.
The good thing is when, whenyou've um, you know, done it for
the length of time that I'vedone it, you sort of you've
you've dealt with almost everyissue.
(16:37):
So you sort of develop a senseof calmness because you know
whatever happens, there's like asolution for it.
So you know it's not alwaysthat way, but when you have
multiple venues you have okayand well, if something goes
wrong with a chef here, that'sunwell, we can actually, you
know, borrow some stuff fromanother than you.
But when you're starting off,sort of like it's so you know
(16:58):
everything feels so huge.
And then you know, looking back, you're like, well, I used to
stress about the tiniest thingand you know that's just.
Yeah, that's part of thejourney, I guess.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, that's a really good perspective.
I mean for all seasons of life,whatever you know, whatever
people are doing, right For sure, yeah Well.
So I've been joking lately withmy friends in my community.
I was like your typical beigemom for a while, have you?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
heard that term.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, like I was like the
poster child, and just recentlyI'm like, oh, color is kind of
nice, you know.
So I'm like stepping back intothat, but with that, one of the
first things I noticed aboutyour book when it was sent to me
was the vibrant color.
And it is gorgeous, like notjust the pages and the
characters in the book, andgorgeous Like not just the pages
and the characters in the book,and we can talk about that more
(17:44):
in a minute.
But your food is so vibrant and, from my understanding, none of
it is artificial.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, it's all natural.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, funnily enough, I'd just been living prior to
moving back to Melbourne lastyear.
I was living in Byron Bay,which is like beige, capital of
everything.
Like everyone is wearing beige,every house is beige, every
restaurant you walk into, thefit out is beige, so I
definitely know what you'refeeling.
But yeah, the beautiful thingabout eating is you know the
first.
You know we first eat with oureyes, so we look at the food and
(18:16):
we get excited by what we see,and so it's like.
It's such.
You know, and you know duringCOVID and we like TikTok.
You know people are coming likebetter chefs at home.
So in order for a restaurant tostand out, you really have to
go above and beyond for likepeople to come back.
And one of our sort of mostviral things we ever did was a
(18:37):
blue spirulina latte.
And the thing was this was backin 2016,.
There was no natural bluecolouring, so anytime something
had looked blue, it was alwaysartificial or looked like a
Smurf kind of thing.
So we kept hearing about thisnaturally derived, occurring
algae that had this mostincredible deep blue colour.
(18:58):
And at one of our cafes we hada matcha green latte and we had
a turmeric latte and we wantedto complete that rainbow and so
we invented this blue spirulinalatte and that just went bananas
online and then we sort of hadfollowed through and just seeing
that, like, people reallyappreciate the effort and the
(19:18):
colour, as long as it's actuallyadding value to the dish.
So, for example, there's arecipe, um, at one of our
italian restaurants we've done,which is for a blue spirulina
pasta.
But because, because the bluecoloring is like quite salty,
it's derived from underwater, uh, we, we prepare it with like a
seafood, a seafood pasta and aseaweed pasta, so it's actually
(19:42):
adding depth of flavor.
So it's not just for a gimmick,it looks good and it adds a
layer of flavor and complexityto the dish.
So I think, whenever you, ifyou ever see a color, if you're
just doing it just just forlikes or for the wrong reasons,
it won't pay off.
Like people will maybe come andtry it once but they won't come
(20:02):
back for it.
But if it's actually adding tothe, adding to what you're
tasting, adding to the story,adding depth, complexity,
whatever it's, that's that's howwe found, like great success in
using colors, um, and yeah, sothat's been, you know, part of
the story I feel like that waslike a $10,000 consulting tip,
(20:23):
yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Like everyone could send you money for that to all
the restaurants, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Well, we've just been going through like my partner,
she's all over TikTok and she'sdeciding where we're going for
our morning marches and coffeesand treats and some of them look
great, unbelievable online.
And then you get then and it'slike a bit of a miss, and then
(20:50):
some of them that actually dogreat online but the actual
product is phenomenal is thoseare the ones that's like have
lines out the front and seem tobe doing really well yeah,
that's a good reminder too, thatinstagram isn't always it, you
know like no, it's definitelynot.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You got to show up and give it a try yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah .
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Man, no, I'm all about aesthetic with food.
I think that sometimes, whenfood is made beautiful I talked
about this with a guest a fewweeks ago Like it's
misunderstood that people wantit to be like they think it
equals perfection, or like thehost, I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, what's yourimpression?
What like why?
Why is it important to you tomake food beautiful for people?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
well, I think it's just like it actually helps you
like enjoy the meal.
I think you like.
It's like you know we're verydistracted, but I think, like,
if you, if you see this likebeautiful meal in front of you
and the people you're with you,really get to like enjoy it and
soak it up and, you know, justjust really be mindful of what
you're consuming and think aboutwhat you're putting in your
(21:53):
mouth and like think about theeffort that's gone into prepare
this meal, rather than somethingthat's just sort of been
slapped together and it feelslike fast-paced, like the best
thing a restaurant can do istransport you to somewhere.
So you've had a stressful day.
You go to a nice restaurant andthen all of a sudden you're
just like you know the music'snice and then this amazing
beautiful thing drops in frontof you.
(22:13):
It's just going to transportyou away where you can, you know
, even just for a moment, forgetabout, like, your stressful day
, or you know that yeah, um,yeah, so that's always a bonus I
love that answer.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I think that we've started to see the table as like
something that gets in the wayof like yeah or gets in the way
of life, like it's annoying tocook, it's annoying to sit for
an hour, it's like I don't knowfor the listeners.
Just like maybe this week gosomewhere and order something
beautiful and just enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
You know enjoy the beauty of it.
Yeah, yeah, and you know, Ithink it's like one of my
favorite lessons from my, youknow, italian nonna.
She, she's always cooking andalways bringing people together
and it's actually like you stopand think about it, how food is
like this amazing way that weconnect.
You know, we connect and we,you know whether it's with our
partner and you know like we haddone like a lot of traveling, a
(23:02):
lot of bits and pieces, andthen actually sitting opposite
her and like we're, you know,looking to each other's eyes and
we can know finally actuallylike catch up and be us and
connect, you know, really deeplyconnect.
It's like rather, you know,rather than the hustle and
bustle of travel.
So, yeah, definitely, if youget a chance next meal, whether
it's like at home or at arestaurant, just, yeah, take
that extra minute to enjoy andconnect and, yeah, just
(23:25):
appreciate how lovely it is tobe sharing a meal with people
you love.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, it's really good, love that conversation.
I also want to talk about yourNana just for a second.
I didn't tell you to ask abouther, but so I was reading about
her and then also in the contextof you having like a
plant-based platform, I wasthinking about my Italian
grandpa and I was like he wouldnot have known what to do with
plant-based Like that wasn't hisworld.
So how has she received this?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
like your focus, so, funnily enough, we had the
Australian book launch and wewere going to do a family one.
And then we're going to do likesort of a media and influencer
one and my grandmother's like,why don't we just do the whole
thing here?
So we had a whole bunch ofmedia and influencers and
everyone come to like my nonna'shouse, like literally in the
suburbs, like come to nonna'shouse.
(24:13):
We had over 100 people throughand she, like had prepared like
her recipes which are in thebook.
But it's like it's pretty funnyconversations because you're
like, okay, no, no, like whichare these recipes plant-based?
And she'd say, like thesearen't Cheeny Balls.
I'm like, oh well, like whichare these recipes plant-based?
And she'd say, like thesearen't Chini bowls.
I'm like, oh well, you'reactually buying the rice
together with the egg.
It's like you know, and she'slike, oh, don't worry about it.
(24:35):
And those kind of things whereit's like, and she's such a
phenomenal cook, she doesn'thave any recipes, she just does
everything by heart.
So actually trying to quantifyand write it down and script the
recipes was, you know, yeah,like this, such a fun experience
because she'd never really doneit before.
(24:56):
She just knows everything byheart.
But I think, yeah, she had likesuch a good time at the launch
and, yeah, she was like superproud and you know she's got a
photo in the book and that'sjust like you know, yeah,
probably one of my favoriteparts of the whole book.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, that's really sweet, that's good.
Will she eat the plant-basedstuff?
Will she try it?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, she does like her minestrone recipe, which is
part of the book.
That is like vegan as a thing.
It's just a whole bunch ofveggies.
She still thing it's just awhole bunch of veggies.
Um, she still thinks it's a bitfunny.
But you know, she's, she's,she's, she's more open to trying
it.
And uh, yeah, she's, yeah, she,she's got the same like 10
things she's loved eating forprobably 60 years and won't
(25:42):
stray too much from it.
Like I can't get her to trysushi, but you know she's, uh,
she's every now and then she'lltry some vegan things it sounds
just like my italiangrandparents.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I totally get it, and when I was told that I had to
eat gluten-free and I broughthome a gluten-free pasta, I wish
I knew what my grandpa wasswearing yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
he was like yeah like cussingit out of the kitchen.
Yeah, yeah, it's like just doit, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You know it's like yeah oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Um, okay.
So I always like doing this onmy episodes whenever a topic
might be unfamiliar to people.
I like going back and kind oflike defining things.
And so when we're talking aboutplant-based, can you kind of
like define it?
So what foods are like includedor excluded?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
so I think the the as far as from the restaurant side
, when we're saying we're aplant-based restaurant, there's
absolutely zero animal productwhat's with us.
So some like hardcore vegansthings like honey, like they
won't even use honey or evencall their partner honey.
(26:50):
But so when we go like 100%plant-based, that means we're
not using any animal productswhatsoever.
So for us I'm not sure if it'sdifferent over here, but for us
that's like but I thinkplant-based is a bit softer than
it's like saying vegan.
So plant-based is like I'mpredominantly, I'm plant
(27:12):
predominant, so I'm usuallymaking my diet for that.
But I might make certainexceptions when I feel like I
need a protein hit or I'm justlike really craving like some
eggs or some like a burger, orlike you know, I'm just going
out for pizza and so I'm justgoing to have a pizza and not
worry about it.
And I think that's the best wayto approach it and that's how I
do personally is not beingabsolute about it.
(27:34):
So I try to eat as well and asnourishing as I can, but also
being like I'm on holidays, Iwant to try all these new things
and, you know, not feeling badif you know, one meal out of X
amount is unhealthy or not 100%plant-based.
I think, I think that's thebest way forward for, for, for
(27:54):
all of us.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, no, I can stand behind that.
I love that definition too.
I should have written this down.
I was reading through some ofthe intro of the book and I
think you were addressing thequestion like is plant-based
healthier?
Like, will I lose weight, orwhatever, and you addressed like
three foods that wereplant-based.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
you're like cocaine yeah, cocaine, bread and oreos
are just like you know, they'reall like they're all plant-based
, but it's like you know, it'suh, yeah, it's.
It won't necessarily, um mean,you're going like eating vegan
or plant-based won't necessarilybe healthy and same with any
diet.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Like you just want to be making sure, however, you're
consuming food like do itmindfully and do it what works
for you and for your body yeah,I think I'm really thankful for
the way that food culture isgoing like I think we are we're
finally waking up, like we'refinally realizing we have, like
it's empowering actually to like, yeah, know that what you
choose could lead to health andthere are really good tasting
(28:49):
options, and I think that's whatyou're exposing us to too.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, for sure, and and I I guess in my sort of
visits, visits to the U?
S, they tend to be just sort oflike Los Angeles or New York,
which are, you know, probablyyou know, a bit more open to
those sort of things, but I'mnot so much sure on the middle
parts of America.
But I think, you know, as we'reevolving, we're learning more
(29:13):
and we're absorbing moreinformation, it's always going
to come out that these thingsare better for us.
It's not like new studies aregoing to come out and say, you
know, we should be eating like10 times more red meat.
It's like, you know, we've gotthe knowledge from, like these
blue zones where, you know, the,the, the people living the
healthiest, most fulfillinglives.
This is their diet and as muchas we can incorporate that like,
(29:34):
I think overall it's going tobe for the best.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, that's good, that's really good.
And I always tell people, ifyou're skeptical, try it for
yourself, like give it a solidtrial period and see how you
feel.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know, yeah, that's right and to be
completely plant-based requires,like, a lot of organization and
a lot of ingredient checking,and you know it can be quite
limiting at times and there'sparticular vitamins that you
might be missing out on, likevitamin B12.
So I think, like whatever dietyou choose, you just you know,
think of it from a wholeperspective, and you know a lot
(30:07):
of us.
Whatever our diet, think of itfrom a whole perspective, and
you know a lot of us whateverour diet, we're missing out on.
You know important dailyvitamins, so it's important to
make sure you're getting youknow much goodness as you can
yeah, it's good, good, good.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Well, I want to walk through some of the chapters.
I know not everyone's going tobe watching like video.
Um, some people might belistening, so I wanted to hold
it up because I love the visuals.
But let's go through eachchapter.
I would love for you to kind oflike you could take it whatever
direction, you could share apart of the chapter that you're
most excited for people to read,a recipe that you love in that
(30:40):
chapter, anything like that, andwe'll kind of look at it like
speed rounds, so okay.
So the first one.
Um, I just think this one isimportant in general, but where
do vegans get their protein?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
well, good question.
Uh, legumes are a great source,so beans, chickpeas, um, and
that goes back in.
So, in that in that chapterthere's non-asminastronies
recipes in there that has 15different vegetables, super high
in protein, super easy to cook.
Um, you can take um vegetablesthat are in your fridge that
(31:16):
like okay, I need to use theseup and you can pour them all
into a soup and make this likeincredible, incredible thing.
That like tastes like you're.
You know, it's like it's likeeating a hug, like it's so
amazing for you.
It's like that's.
That's probably like one of myfavorite things.
Um, and then experimenting incolor in that chapter there's
like, um, we use uh, quinoa likea, like an uncolored quinoa,
(31:38):
and we um brew it with somematcha tea and it goes like
electric green.
So you know you're getting theantioxidant boost from matcha
and getting like the proteinprotein boost from the quino
king mine.
So that'd be my favorites inthat chapter, for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Oh my gosh.
So I would love to be a fly onthe wall when you guys are like
recipe developing and justseeing like the color man.
Yeah, that's fun it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
It's.
The most common thing I hear islike the first thing they say
it's like no, like that'simpossible.
It's like so you know, becauseI'm like the um, I'm the
creative director, and like the,the restaurateur, but not I've
never been the head chef of therestaurant, but I've worked with
the most amazing chefs I'm like, okay, can we do this and can
we do this plant-based?
And can we?
(32:21):
You know it's?
Can we make it turn this color?
And can we make a cocktail thatwhen you add this, it turns
this color?
Usually time it it's no, but,like you know, thankfully, like
work with these amazing peoplethat like help me, like create
these crazy ideas, and like someare just like unattainable and
some are like, well, actually wecan do this, and it's like it's
my favorite part of the wholeprocess.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
That is, that's really fun.
Well, in this chapter you havea chicken schnitzel or like a
chicken right?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, yeah, so funnily enough we opened this
amazing plant-based cafe back in2016.
And you know, we had lines outthe door and, within sort of 12
months of opening, like thisgiant KFC opened up next door to
us and which you know and youcould sort of like from as you
(33:11):
walked out, you could, you know,you could get the waft of like
all the like, the deep fried,all the deep friedness.
Um, and so we, our sort of umreply to that was to come up
with like deep fried goodnessbut like to replicate, like
those like herbs and spices anddeliciousness and that homely
feeling you get from like eatinglike you know, fried goodness.
But we use jackfruit and thegreat thing about jackfruit is
(33:34):
it's like quite a neutral flavor.
So you can, you know, seasonand flavor it to whatever you
want to whatever you want tokind of replicate.
Um, we try not to like,especially now, like to to like
mock, do too much mock meat andthat kind of thing.
But this is our version of likea delicious, crispy fried
(33:55):
goodness and it was our sort oflike.
There you go, kfc.
It was like you know, if you'regonna do that, we're gonna do
this, and you know, and we stillhad lines at the door and you
know we were just that, was thatended up being like you know we
did like a popcorn, jackfruit,like the uh, the burger that you
mentioned, and they end upbeing like the most popular like
(34:17):
things on the menu.
So it's like, yeah, well, kfcis gonna open, what?
We're gonna do this and we'regonna be even busier I'm sure
the press loved that.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Did you get good for that?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
yeah, we did.
We gave away, like, um, we hadlike a golden, a golden nugget.
We we had partnered with uhQantas in Australia and we had
like, if you find the golden,like jackfruit nugget, um, you
win a trip to Japan.
So like we had this sort of likelike you know, it was like um
Melbourne restaurant's responseto KFC opening next door, and
(34:47):
they're like like yeah, we'redoing this, our version of like
deep fried goodness, and if youfind like the golden Jackfruit
nugget, you're going to win atrip to Japan.
And that just went banal for us, wow.
Oh gosh, you guys are geniusman Faking it till, we make it
or something I know, I mean,that's the real part of it,
right?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
Oh man, I love talking thislanguage, though it's good.
Um, okay, don't be upset, eatsome spaghetti.
And if you can, specifically,I'd love for you to talk about
the cheeses in here, because Ithink when people think
plant-based, they're like Ican't get cheese.
So can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
that's, that's the.
That's one one like um.
Insight is you cannot replicatethe same chemical experience
that happens in your brain whenyou eat.
Like traditional cheese, it'sjust short of like lacing it
with a tiny bit of cocaine.
You can't actually recreatelike a plant-based cheese that
(35:43):
has that same chemical thing.
And even my mum, who's likevegetarian for years, she just
can't cut out cheese.
But what we can do is createthese like epic alternatives.
So we do a soy one and a cashewone, um, and it's like again,
like you can flavor it to beabsolutely delicious.
So we do like um stuffedzucchini flowers.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I think you call them something else I know what
you're talking about, though,because I grew up with them.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, yeah, they're stuffed flowers yeah, um, we
call them zucchini flowers.
I think you call them somethingelse.
I know what you're talkingabout, though, because I grew up
with them.
Yeah, yeah, they're stuffedflowers.
Yeah, um, zucchini flowers, youmight call them something else.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Um, I know what you mean.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, and you can flavor this like amazing, like
soy ricotta, and flavor likespinach and garlic and
deliciousness.
So when you're eating ittogether with the flour, it's
just absolutely incredible.
So at our sydney restaurant wemade all our entree, so it
wasn't 100 plant, we made allour entrees.
So it wasn't 100% plant-based,but all the entrees were.
So you're like if you order theflowers, they come, you're
(36:36):
going to eat them and you'regoing to be like this is amazing
and you're not even going toknow that it's plant-based.
You're just like this isdelicious, good food and that
was our whole thing.
We wanted you to come into therestaurants and go like I'm
going to order pancakes that areincredible, pancakes that just
happen to be vegan, rather thanbeing like these are the vegan
pancakes Because we want you togo.
This is amazing, regardless ofwhatever your dietary thing is.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
I love that we're talking about this because I
think we're moving away fromthis, but for so long, healthy
food equals tofu and gluten-freeequals cardboard.
It's like, man, we've come sofar, like if that's the last
time you tried eating healthy,like it's time to try again yeah
, and and and.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
In a lot of ways, like the plant-based world, and
and and.
For us and for this book, itactually opened up this whole
realm of creativity, like a newway to like invent, like cooking
and consuming food and justlike you know, as you said, it
would appear that there was likelimitations on food and our
biggest thing was going likethere's nothing, almost nothing,
(37:42):
that we can't make.
That's going to be incredible,that's going to satisfy that
craving.
But, yeah, that's a huge partof why we were successful in
that time.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Wow, wow well, this one.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I've been spending a lot, of, a lot of time drooling
over but, um no, telling me whatto do so talk about the dessert
aspect of this yeah, and againit's like you're going into that
same thing, like thetraditional nutella that's not
made like, that's not actuallycompletely plant-based and has
some animal product in it.
So we're like any version ofanything we can make and we can
(38:17):
make and it's going to bedelicious.
It won't necessarily be exactlythe same, but it's going to be
delicious and it'll keep youcoming back for it.
And in that same way of likehow can we reimagine things?
It was like how can wereimagine pasta to be dessert?
So we made these like Nutellaravioli.
(38:37):
So we used like our chocolatehazelnut spread and it's like
the traditional pasta, but likeit's made like with a variation
to be slightly sweeter.
But it's still like thisdelicious dumpling that you're
eating and then Nutella's oozingout and the ice cream's on the
sweeter.
But it's still like thisdelicious dumpling that you're
eating and then Nutella's oozingout and the ice cream's on the
top, and it's just like this.
You know, it's like youprobably don't necessarily want
to have like carbs on the topsof carbs, like have another
(39:00):
pasta after your thing, but itwas just like it's so delicious
that it's just like.
You know, like I'll have asmall amount of a small entree
and then like this, like saveroom for these, like nutella
ravioli it sounds like you knowgirl dinner, it's like, yeah,
yeah, yeah, like a caesar saladand nutella ravioli.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's awesomeman, were you gonna?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
say something else.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I don't want to cut you off um, no, well, if I'm,
and maybe mentioned it before.
But so there's a plant-basedrestaurant out in Los Angeles
called Gracious Madre, which is,you know, one of the most
beautiful dining rooms that I'veever been to, like this
incredible outdoor courtyard,and that was like the epiphany
moment that I had because it wasplant-based and I was there
(39:48):
with some friends and we'resmashing these tacos and you
know, 10 margaritas deep, andyou just, it hadn't even come
into my mind for a second thatwe were eating plant-based and
that's the thing that we weretrying to recreate.
Now, things like we walk intothe restaurant, nothing about it
really says like plant-based asyou walk in.
But it's just, we applied thatconcept to like a cool Melbourne
(40:08):
brunch cafe, so you walk in.
But it's just, we applied thatconcept to like a cool melbourne
brunch cafe, so you walk in.
The music's good, there'ssmashed avocado, there's
pancakes, there's good coffee,there's matcha, but it just
happens to be vegan.
So it was like that those sortof things were like hadn't quite
happened in australia.
At the time I was very like inyour face and preachy about that
way, but I think if you do itin a more like relaxed,
inclusive way, you're actuallygoing to get.
(40:31):
You know, like, if you say, oh,this is vegan or I'm vegan for
that, a lot of people will justcompletely switch off.
Where it's like, yeah, like youknow, we're open to everything
and this stuff is delicious, andyou know, it just happens to be
plant-based, you can actuallyget like more people on board.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's good .
I, as you were saying that Iwas thinking like with everyday
hospitality too.
I used to have a catering, aspecial diet catering company.
I never did plant-basedspecifically, but it was gluten
and dairy free mostly, and mykind of like motto was like food
, so good, everyone wants to eatit.
So clean, everyone can.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, and thatwas the thing Like you tell me
what restrictions your guest has, I'm going to make a spread and
(41:09):
everyone will enjoy eating it,and we didn't even like put
little like tags out or anything, cause that's the thing Like if
people know, sometimes itchanges the experience, right.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
For sure.
And this and the same thingthat was our philosophy in the
restaurants now, which is like,whatever your dietary thing, you
can look on the menu and you'renot like you don't have to be
like, oh, can I have the gluten?
Is this available gluten-freeor is this available dairy-free?
Like there's just so manyoptions that everybody feels
comfortable and whoever getsthat, whether they're
gluten-free or dairy-free or not, it's going to be delicious.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, oh man, this is like a tease.
This is like a really bad teasefor me, because I'm like it's
too far, I can't like end thiscall and just head there.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah one day.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
One day, yeah, that's right, it's not too far from
thailand.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
So you know, next, next, next big trip, you head
out, head down there you goweekend away.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah, um, this last one that I wanted to talk about.
I love that you included in thebook, um, because I'm just
getting more creative with mydrink options, but giving me the
Spritz.
Talk to us about this.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah.
So it's like, it's amazing whenyou look into it and you know
we're opening this like thistrendy sort of restaurant, a
Spritz bar in Sydney, and youknow, looking through, like you
know trying to do, trying to belike all the drinks will be
plant-based and thinking likethis is super easy.
And then you actually lookthrough and you're like, well,
(42:34):
this has egg white and then thisliqueur has, like milk
particles and this thing is madewith, like this, food colouring
that's derived from animals andall that sort of thing.
So for us it actually presentedthis new opportunity for like
again, like for innovation, andjust to show that like there's
nothing that can't be done.
(42:55):
That's like, you know,delicious frothy, like aquafaba
kind of cocktail based thing,and you know we make a like
hazelnut lagroni.
Um, we, yeah, there's like theaquafaba, like a peach sour, a
chili, margarita, espresso,martini, any of these things
that I like, you know, andthat's my favorite part to taste
(43:19):
test and it's amazing how goodyou can become at writing a book
after you've.
When you're on the cocktailchapter, you just start to be
free flowing while you're doingthat taste test.
But yeah, it's just me samething, like if you come cocktail
, you just you start to befree-flowing while you're doing
that taste test.
But yeah, it just means samething, like if you come to the
restaurant, you don't even haveto worry about, like is this,
does this have dairy, or doesthis thing?
This is just, like you know, adelicious cocktail and it's
(43:40):
going to be.
You don't have to worry aboutthat thing man, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I I've talked about this on the show because I've
had a few like alcohol brands onrecently or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, I am so lame withmy drinks, like seriously so
lame, like red wine girl throughand through and I'm like okay
time to time to grow up.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Katie, it's time to explore red wine's a magical
place to be, but yeah it is yeah, yeah and I think I think
there's been, there's been.
One thing I have seen is um youknow, innovation in the
non-alcoholic beverages as wellwhich is sort of like um making
a play.
But the next sort of thing thatI can see sort of coming is
(44:20):
things that are like um, likewe're going to a nice restaurant
, we don't want to drink alcoholbut we also don't want to drink
a mocktail like a fake gin or afake syrup or anything like
that, so like functional sort oftonics where it's like this
might have like some mushroomextract or any of those things.
So I think all the non-alcoholicalternatives, they're going to
(44:42):
be like done in like martiniglasses and look really
interesting, but not actually belike mock, like like trying to
replicate something.
But you can go out to like afun dinner and be like I'm gonna
have like this mushroom sodatonic and it's gonna come out
and it's gonna change colors andit's gonna be in a martini
glass and you'll feel reallygood about it afterwards.
(45:04):
Wow yeah.
And in addition to that, saylike you are having margarita,
like adding, like you know, lesssugar and like some ginger, so
there's like, you know, it'slike a you're gonna feel better
the next day and you're gonnawant to keep drinking them and
yeah, it's like it's a it's yeah, it's a huge scope for
innovation.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
So I could stand.
I could stand behind that verycool man.
Well, I don't know if you wantto talk about this slash can,
but I've heard that you've hadsome pretty noteworthy guests at
your restaurant, are you?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
comfortable.
Yes, a restaurant, yeah, surething.
Are you okay talking about it?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, so who have you seen?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Well, funnily enough, so regular this is going back
12 years I got to know a regularcouple that were, you know,
they'd come in three or fourtimes a week, always ordered the
same thing, and we becamereally good friends and they
would come to like our staffevents and, you know, we had a
whole bunch of people that weredoing that.
(45:59):
And then, almost, like I'd saylike almost a year into our
friendship, and they said ourkids are coming in, and so they,
they brought their kids intothe restaurant and it happened
to be the three Hemsworthbrothers.
And so this is going back like,yeah, probably 11 years ago now
(46:22):
, and so I hadn't realized atthe time that you know that,
that that I had in fact beenfriends with the parents of
Chris, liam and Luke and um,then, yeah, so we sort of had
built like an amazing friendshipover those 10 or 12 years where
, um, you know, and they'rebeing like incredibly supportive
(46:42):
, like Chris did an article inthe New York Times and said what
should people do when they goto to?
Um, come to Melbourne.
He's like I'll go, like go toMark's restaurant, match a milk
bar.
So, um, they've been, you know,as beautiful as they are, you
know, on the outside, they'reactually even better humans on
the inside.
So, um, it's, yeah, that that'sa really uh beautiful, like
(47:04):
natural friendship that'sdeveloped.
And I think, when you're on thecusp of innovation in food,
like you know, particularly likeathletes, or you know people
that take good care of theirbody, they do want to come and
like, check out these new thingsand eat at those places, and so
you're always meeting likeincredible, incredible
(47:25):
individuals and, yeah, that'ssort of a that's been like one
of the you know, looking back onthe journey and all the
incredible people you meet.
It's it's absurd in many ways,but yeah, it's, it's.
It's a really beautifulfriendship that I've built over
a long time.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
It's definitely worth celebrating because, like you,
you just called it a journey.
It's definitely a reflection ofthe journey, of all the years
of innovation and creating andtrial and error that opened
those doors.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
So yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah yeah, and and you
know the, the, all my friends,including those people I would
say like, have have like adown-to-earth and
good-heartedness in common andso that's just.
You know you see people incertain contexts and you know
it's.
You know, especially in LA,that celebrity, celebrity thing
(48:11):
gets you know glamorized, butlike, really it's just like good
people and you know down toearth and yeah, that's.
Yeah, you know you it's, if youhave good friends, like that's
a good recipe for life.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I reckon yeah, yeah, yeah, real good.
Well, I just realized wehaven't even said the name of
the book yet.
I'm like, oh my gosh, 45minutes in haven't said the name
of it.
Well, tell us the name of thebook and what you're excited for
people to experience when theyget it.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, so it's this cookbook is a huge mistake, is
the?
So, yeah, one of our cafes wehad this neon sign back when
neon signs were trendy.
That said, eating here is ahuge mistake because it was
plant-based and you know it wassuper, always photographed and
always spoken about.
So taking that sort ofphilosophy and going, you know
(49:02):
this cookbook is a huge mistake.
This is out on steak and ifyou're a steak lover and you
happen to buy it, sorry aboutthat, but you know, just try
some recipes and it's like happydays.
I'm like a pun lover, dad jokelover, and this is sort of like,
more than anything like thisbook is like where all my puns
had somewhere to go and you knowlike every recipe is like has
(49:26):
has a pun name, there's a pun atthe start of the recipe and
it's just about like makingthings fun.
And you know the the.
You know people would come upand say one of the smoothies was
like if you know any vegetablepuns, let us know.
And so they'd come to thecounter and say, hey, can I
please have one of the?
If you know any vegetable puns,let us know.
And you see their smiles andit's just, you know, it's all
(49:48):
about adding to the experienceof just.
You know, let's createsomething fun and get you to
smile, even if it's cheesy.
You know, it's just that's partof that.
But I think I sort of wrote,started writing the book.
Australia had some crazylockdown laws, in particular in
Melbourne, and Melbourne, Ithink, is like the longest in
(50:08):
the world of lockdowns, and inorder to get from Melbourne to
the next state, I had toquarantine in a hotel for two
weeks and you do not, youliterally don't see anyone for
two weeks.
So you're locked in a room,you've got a window that doesn't
open and food gets delivered,it gets sort of.
(50:31):
There's a knock at the door andthen you have to wait a minute
for the person to drop it, toleave, and then you open it and
and that's your life for twoweeks, right?
So the only person you see isthe nurse that comes and takes
your covid test, which is so, sowild and absurd to think about.
You know us, all of us,collectively having to go
through that.
But, um, I had, you know, had afew drinks on the first night in
(50:55):
there and then woken up likehungover and being in this room
and just gone like you know whatif I do this every night, like
I am not gonna, I don't know ifI'll make it through, like I'll
probably just like go back toMelbourne or something.
So, um, I decided to start sortof like you know, looking back
on the journey and just justjust writing some recipes and
(51:17):
going like, oh yeah, at thatrestaurant, this, this, this
recipe was super popular at that.
I remember, like that, whatthat person said about like
these were the best pancakesI've ever had.
By the end of the two weeks Ihad the outline of what would
resemble a book.
(51:40):
And then, I think, as anovershare, my self-worth was so
tied into my business and we hadsix restaurants in lockdown,
operating under strict lockdownconditions, and so I went
through like a bit of a darkchapter.
And then it was on the otherside of that, which is my
friends and family and thepeople that helped me get
(52:02):
through that, that I was thenable to go look back at the
whole journey and think abouthow unbelievable it's been and
how, like it wasn't the moneyand it wasn't this success that
I actually loved or enjoyedabout it, but it was like the
people I met, the places I gotto travel to the people's day we
made when they were coming tothe thing.
(52:22):
So I've tried to like, add therecipes, add that story, add,
like my better life lessons thatyou know if I, you know who
knows if I'm qualified to sharethem.
But that's part of my story Ihave to tell and I just wanted
to include that and that's soyou sort of get a bit of that,
get some really bad jokes andyou get, like some you know
(52:44):
pretty good recipes.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
I'm so glad that you shared that part of it.
I think it's so important forpeople to know because it helps
us to get to know you better,the road to the book better.
You know like it's.
It's a more full, it's a fullerpicture, which I love sharing.
Yeah, and I love a good likebeauty from ashes story you know
, yeah, for sure because itencourages people in the thick
of it.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
It's like yeah, yeah and I think, I think you know
there's sort of there's, no,there's no journey without like
that's like truly fulfillingwithout some sort of you know,
no, it's like a movie likewithout like the the challenging
part.
Or you know there's there's,there's the feeling at the end
of it.
I think it's.
It would be less fulfillingwithout those challenges for
(53:27):
sure.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Wow.
Well, that was a very profoundway to end the conversation, but
we are going to attach the linkto get the book and the show
notes and the link to your, yoursite and everything as well,
all the ways to find you.
But we end each of ourconversations with the same
three questions and I'd love tohear your answers as well.
The first one is something youhave eaten recently and loved.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Perfect.
So, Eden, I don't know if I cango through like it's a little
bit of a, it's not quite eating,but I had Community Goods, this
cafe in LA, the matcha that Ihad there, and I've been on a
matcha tour and this is by farthe best matcha I've ever had,
so that's probably like the mostmemorable thing that I've had
(54:18):
in the last few days.
Is that an acceptable answer?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
I have something to admit to you, though.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
I have never had matcha do you just like I I
still need, like, I still um mypartner.
She loves matcha, but I stilllike we still have to have a
coffee before I have my matcha.
So I still like, I'm still likean og, I still need my og
(54:46):
coffee.
So, yeah, um that's my thing.
I've never wanted to give up mycoffee yeah, um, and then so
I'll yeah, yeah, I can't, I'llnever be able to.
Okay, I don't think so, umthat's fair there was.
There was this uh, amazing,there's another australian
restaurant that's doing so sowell, well, out here, called
Great White, and they did thisbanana bread.
(55:07):
That was just mind-blowing andit's just a simple thing and I
was just like I'd seen them.
They had like a small littlestore in Santa Monica and now
I've seen like there was one onMarchmont Boulevard and there
was one on Melrose in LA and Iknow they're expanding I was
just like, just like super,super happy for them that like
this, you know, these, this crewof Aussies, this restaurant
(55:30):
called Great White, are doing,you know, showcasing like
amazing Australian brunch, and Ithink that's that's definitely
one of my favorite things I'veeaten very interesting.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
It's cool what makes it right.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
It's like yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah a
simple thing, but done like thatis absolutely magical.
So, yeah, nostalgic.
Yeah, it's like yeah, yeah,that's right.
Yeah, yeah, a simple thing, butdone like that is absolutely
magical.
So, yeah, nostalgic yeah, it'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Um, how about sorry, excuse me a gathering you
attended that made you feel astrong sense of belonging and,
if you could pinpoint it, whatit was that made you feel that
way?
Speaker 2 (56:01):
um, yeah, like this, this really surreal moment, this
meditation studio in VeniceBeach called Open and it was a
friend of mine who had openedMelbourne's first meditation
studio and Melbourne probablywasn't quite ready for that
(56:24):
market.
And he's taken this, this, thishuge risk to come out and open
this studio in venice beach andit was this incredible sound
meditation that you're doingwith like 50 other people and
it's like a tuesday night andit's absolutely packed and
you're just breathing andmeditating together and you're
going through these like deepemotions.
(56:45):
And you know, you just lookaround and at the end of the
together and you're goingthrough these like deep emotions
and you know, you just lookaround and at the end of the
class and you, you, you know youlook into the person sitting
next to his eyes and you just,you know you feel seen and you,
hopefully the person that you'relooking to feel sick, because
you know we are way more similarand we are different as human
beings and that was just like areally like you know, I think
(57:10):
sometimes in LA it can be a bitfast-paced and you miss that.
So that was really beautiful tosee this meditation studio
called Open.
That was just, you know, wasbringing all these random people
together and creating this, youknow, for an hour, was creating
this really beautiful moment.
So that was sort of probablylike the highlight from this
(57:30):
trip.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Yeah, wow, that's really unique.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Yeah, um, well, last but not least, uh, something
you've discovered lately thatyou think everyone should know
about a Netflix show Amazonpurchase anything like that oh,
there's this wild show onNetflix called Apple Cider
Vinegar and it's about thisAustralian girl and she was a
regular at our cafes and she was, as she's depicted, like I
(57:57):
can't remember the name of theAmerican actress, she's like
unbelievable.
So this girl's name was BelleGibson.
So this girl, her name wasBelle Gibson.
She was like the originalinfluencer in Melbourne.
She had like a millionfollowers before anyone did and
(58:26):
she'd built her following sayingshe'd cured herself from a rare
type of brain cancer fromeating whole foods, which is not
possible.
But she just built a followingand told people and how to deal
with like Apple computers in SanFrancisco and eventually, after
four or five years, it turns,you know, people start
questioning things and it turnsout that she's like made this
whole thing up and it was wildnews in Australia when it
(58:46):
happens.
And it was wild for like us inthe restaurant industry and
she'd come into our restaurantand post all the time and she
was a bit flirty and she waslike always like, touchy and
like, and then you see the waythey do this thing and I was
like, oh my God, it was likelike they captured her so well
and it's such a story of howlike people can present
themselves in one way and justbe like apps and gain a
(59:10):
following and be able to preachhealth and all these kind of
things, but have no like actual,like study or basis to actually
be able to preach it.
And it was that was like likecaptivating.
Like watched six episodes backto back because you know they
were showing cafes that that youknow they weren't.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
Um, that like represented melbourne and I was
like, oh yeah, I know that, Iknow that and that, so that was
that's worth a watch for sureapple cider vinegar those, yeah
those shows like pull you in andthey also like scare you right
yes, yes, so scary yeah man youso that no one's talked about it
in that much depth.
But that show and White Lotus,like my past six interviews,
(59:52):
that's like everyone's answer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
And what?
Yeah, I mean, you know I wasjust watching the yeah, the last
episode of I was trying to waittill I got back home to watch
it, but just keep seeing it popup and people talking about, I'm
like, oh, I need, I need towatch it because, like you know,
it's not going to be a secretfor much longer than I want,
right yeah, such an epic show,that's the worst.
Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
When someone gives a spoiler, yeah, that's right.
Well, thank you so much,goodness.
We are so excited for you, um,and for the launch of this book,
and we will tag everything inthe show notes and be sure to
follow along.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Guys, so beautiful chatting with you, thank you
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Well, guys we will see you next week.
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