Breaking the Patterns that Break You w/ Tori Hope Peterson

Tori Hope Petersen is the bestselling author of her memoir “Fostered,” and her new book, “Breaking the Patterns that Break You.” 

She is a sought-out national speaker and Bible teacher, encouraging women, moms, and youth coming from hard places.

Tori is a leading advocate in foster care, who has advocated to congress, and helped countless organizations serving vulnerable people raise funds by telling her powerful story from stages. 

At home, she is a mom and wife who enjoys cooking with her children. With a value for hospitality, the family makes extra food to be able to open their doors and feed whoever might stop by.

Through this conversation we will talk through: 

• Tori's background in the foster care system and its impact on her life 
• How to reframe the way we approach feeling left out of social settings and the concept of intentional solitude  
• What it means to love like you've been hurt
• Tori's upcoming conference, Loved Already
• Celebrate the upcoming release of “Breaking the Patterns that Break You.”

This conversation will open your eyes, touch your heart, and move you towards change. You won't want to miss it!

Follow her on instagram
Buy her new book
Purchase the book she lists as her latest favorite thing! 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, hey guys, welcome back and happy new year.
How is it?
2025?
That number is huge, especiallyas someone that graduated high
school in 2010,.
Like, the years are flying andI don't know this season I was
just talking to Tori about it itwas an exhausting one, but our
super sweet one for us, and Ijust have a lot of expectancy

(00:23):
for 2025.
2024 was just kind of a weirdblur.
Maybe it was postpartum, but2025 is looking really, really
sweet, so I'm excited to stepinto it with all of you guys.
Well, if you have not heard ofTori Hope Peterson, you must not
I don't know be on social media, be around.
We've all heard of her.

(00:44):
We all love her.
She's been kind of in my circle.
I've been familiar with herstory.
We have mutual friends for awhile now and when the
opportunity came up to have heron the show, it was an easy yes,
and I'll talk more about thiswith her when she's on the
screen with us.
But I don't read through everysingle book, cover to cover, for
the show.

(01:04):
You guys know that intransparency, I just I can't
swing it.
But this one I knew I had toand it has.
I'm going to get like choked upa few times in this
conversation, been spoken sodirectly to my heart, it's going
to speak so powerfully to yoursas well, and so I'm just really
excited to share it with youguys.

(01:25):
Well, enough of my blabbering.
If you don't know who Tori is,here is just a quick bio to
catch you up to speed.
So she is a bestselling authorof her first memoir Fostered her
new book, breaking the Patternsthat Break you.
She's a sought out nationalspeaker and Bible teacher,
encouraging women, moms andyouth coming from hard places.

(01:46):
Tori is a leading advocate infoster care who has advocated to
Congress and helped countlessorganizations serving vulnerable
people raise funds by tellingher powerful story from stages
At home.
She is a mom and wife whoenjoys cooking with her children
, with a value for hospitality,which we love.
Of course, the family makesextra food to be able to open

(02:08):
their doors and feed whoevermight stop by.
What a beautiful family missionstatement.
Well, that is a little bitabout Tori, and you know that
Feast and Fettle also wants tobe on your radar as we kick off
this year and help you makemeeting your goals and kicking
off the new year easier.
If you're new to the show anddon't know about Feast and

(02:29):
Fettle.
They are a private chef-likedelivery service no ripping open
packages, no cooking, no prepwork on your part.
It is like a private chefcooked food for your family,
delivered it to your doorstep.
They want to make their kids'lunches easier, the snacks,
breakfast, whatever gaps youhave in your menu planning.
They want to come alongside youand give you nourishing,

(02:52):
high-quality, foodie-approvedfood for $25 off your first week
.
Use code GATHER25, g-a-t-h-e-r.
And the number is 25 when youhead to checkout and order your
first week today.
Hi, I'm Katie, a hospitalityeducator and the host of Making

(03:15):
Room by Gather podcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness andwith it I was given a choice to
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it.
And for me, that meant twothings that I needed the healing

(03:37):
to learn how to accept aninvitation and the confidence to
know how to extend one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through Making Room by Gather,you will hear conversations from
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
relationships.
You see, there are countlessthings trying to keep us from

(03:59):
the table.
But can I tell you something?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are

(04:19):
a good host.
Let me flip the screen.
I like this one better.
It's prettier.
We have a lot of mutual friends.
Did you know that?
I don't think I did know that.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
but I will say, like we haven't even started talking
and I feel like I'm just goingto cry, like I feel like you're
my soulmate.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I said that in the show intro and I meant it.
I'm like welling up already.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yes, and just for context, I don't think a lot of
people realize that the tearsare, that's happening.
I don't think a lot of peoplerealize that when you do these
podcasts, the people who areinterviewing you don't always
read your book in full, and theydon't actually.
Usually they maybe read likethe introduction, and so I think

(05:02):
, just to hear your words andwhat you said about it and I
know that as a mom too it justtakes it takes a lot of time to
open up a book and read it.
So that meant so much to me,yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, no, I, I was taking notes and I joke I'm
going to joke about thisconversation a little later but
I could have had you here fortwo days, like we could have
turned this into a conference,because I just there are a lot
of people, so I'm not actuallychoked up, I'm losing my voice
Little bold.
No, there's a lot of people inthe kind of like encouragement

(05:39):
space, or, if you want to callit, like the personal growth
space, that really want to helphurting people, but they haven't
experienced a lot of it, youknow, and so sometimes their
words fall a little flat or theydon't know exactly how to
encourage.
And I think what I found withyours, tori, is you know how to
speak directly to the heart, andit's because you've been there,

(05:59):
you've walked it, you know thethings that are not being said,
you know the help that's maybenot being given and you fill
that void, and so I think that'swhat makes it so.
What word do I want to use?
Like I don't know.
I just felt like a sponge thatwas able to just soak it all up,

(06:19):
and that's the power that yourwords have.
So I think, to start and kindof like set the stage, you,
let's see.
You come from your own journeyof brokenness and healing, that
kind of combination that allowsyou to speak in this way.
So what do you want people toknow about your story and how

(06:40):
you got to where you are today?
Because there's a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
There's a lot.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, so short synopsis I grew up in the foster
care system.
Longer synopsis I was born to asingle mom who had generational
trauma passed down to her and Ibelieve that my biological mom
did the absolute best with whatshe had, and she herself, even

(07:07):
though I went into the fostercare system and even though my
life was not ideal by any means,my mom actually did break a lot
of generational cycles andpatterns raising me.
She just didn't break all ofthem.
She just didn't break, you know, I think, as many as she would
want to, and I really believethat that's because she just
didn't have the resources thatwe have today.

(07:28):
When I look, you know, when youlook at our culture, it's like
if people aren't going totherapy, it's like are you okay?
Like why aren't you in therapy?
Like now it's so encouraged togo to therapy and have
counseling.
And when my mom was growing up,if you were attending therapy
or going to counseling, it waslike, are you psychotic?

(07:49):
Like are you mad?
You know, it's just a verydifferent culture, and so she
didn't have the resources that Ihad.
I went into the foster caresystem twice, once when I was
four and then again when I was12, I lived in 12 different
homes, which is very hard, youknow.
It felt like I was justdisposable, like no one loved me
, like no one wanted me.

(08:10):
However, throughout thatjourney, the judge on my case
had me do therapy.
He mandated that I do therapyand it was very beneficial to me
, I think, starting at such ayoung age learning to process
through my emotions and myfeelings.
I started therapy when I was 12.

(08:30):
And like that's what I mean.
My mom just didn't have what Ihad.
And then I had foster parentswho took me to church and who
gave me a community, and thosepeople supported me and loved me
.
And again, my mom didn't havethat community, didn't have
those kinds of resources, and somuch of the trauma that I've

(08:52):
experienced, or the hurt that Ihad experienced in my childhood
was because of the generationaltrauma passed down.
And then I had a teacher who hisname was Mr Rodenberger and we
were reading the seven habits ofa highly effective teenager and
the first rule was begin withthe end in mind and I was, like

(09:15):
what does that mean?
You know, when you're like inseventh grade, like what does
that mean?
And he just said, like it'sreally, basically, really short.
He said it's really importantthat you guys get good grades
and that you apply yourself,because you know, if you don't,
you're not going to go tocollege or you're not going to
be able to get a job, and ifthat's not the case, some of you
guys are going to end up likeyour parents.
And it just kind of struck melike in that moment that I

(09:39):
wanted my life to be differentand I always wanted to be a mom.
That was something that wasalways in my heart and I I knew
for my life to be different, Ihad to do something different.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Not to laugh, it's just like that's.
So I feel like so many peoplelistening are probably just like
needing a moment to processthat, and I've had seasons of my
life that maybe that thoughthas clicked, but I haven't like
processed it to that extent, youknow like, yeah, like defining
moments.
So I'm so grateful for thatteacher.
I've had similar teachers in mystory and in my life and I'm so

(10:19):
thankful for their bravery andsaying those hard things and
that setting Right Cause that'snot that's not the norm, right,
and they could have gotten a lotof pushback for that.
I guess a little bit of afollowup question.
You've had a lot of healingwork in different stages of your
story that have led to thewriting of these books.
I feel like a lot of times thatkind of processing requires a

(10:44):
mirror.
So whether it's like someone inour life that, like, calls
things out and you're like, oh,I didn't see it that way, so it
could be like a relationship orsomething like that, what
sparked your healing journey Imean, maybe this teacher was
there, so many people throughout.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Oh my goodness, it's so many people and so many
different things.
So it was that teacher.
I had a track coach who youknow part of my healing maybe
hasn't been people just callingme out, but it's just been
people staying there and lovingme relentlessly.
And so I had a track coach whoactually ended up bringing me

(11:26):
into his family.
So I aged out of foster care,moved throughout 12 different
homes, aged out of foster carewith no family, and that is
quite common for youth who gointo foster care when they're
like 12 years or older, justbecause people don't want to
adopt teenagers.
They want to adopt like littlechildren and so sadly, that's

(11:46):
not an uncommon thing.
But my track coach actually himand he has two other.
He has two biological daughters.
His biological daughters cameto him.
They knew that I was homelessand they said why aren't we
letting Tori into our family?
Like why doesn't Tori just livewith us?
And so from there he welcomedme into his family and that
would be like a beautiful way toend the story.

(12:08):
But it was just like I moved inand I was like an atomic bomb.
You know, I didn't know how todo relationships.
I didn't know how to let peoplelove me.
And I would slam the door, youknow I'd walk out and I'd be
like I'm never coming back andhe would just say the same thing
over and over and over againthis home is your home, this
room is your room, and the doorwill be unlocked when you decide

(12:30):
to come back.
And he would always say thatover and over and over again and
eventually, you know, I stoppedreacting that way because I
started to believe it, and so Ithink part of my healing was
just people loving me.
There's this woman named Tanyawho is kind of like a mother
figure in my life.
I mean, she is, she is mymother figure, she's like a mom
to me and you know she stood inas my mom at my wedding.

(12:50):
She just has held me so manytimes when I cried.
Actually, christmas thisChristmas season is it's quite a
hard time for me.
I went into foster care twodays before Christmas and for
some reason, there have justbeen more traumatic events
throughout my life, throughoutthis season, that have happened
and I just it's like my bodyremembers or something and I

(13:14):
went to Tanya Tanya lives half amile away from me and I went to
her house, you know, overChristmas break, and I literally
just walked like I did notknock, I just walked into her
door and she was standing therein her kitchen at the door just
ready to receive me.
I am a grown person, I'm 28years old right now.
I just put my head on hershoulder and just bawled.
She just held me.

(13:38):
Love of people, that love likeChrist and that are there for me
and that have not left me, evenwhen I haven't been the like
easiest person to love, um, andthen from there it absolutely
has been.
I think that and this is gonnasound like a weird, like brag on
myself, and I don't mean that,um for it to sound that way but

(14:02):
I have always been someone who'sbeen able to receive criticism
and feedback.
I mean not like perfectly like,especially as a teen, but I
think there came a point when Ikind of realized that if I took
the feedback and criticism, thatit would make me better, and so

(14:23):
I think from a young age I juststarted to listen to people,
maybe not even when they weretalking about me, but when they
were talking about anything andtrying to apply it to myself to
make myself better.
Now there has been like a flipside to that where I realized
that I was kind of takingeverything and not everything
was for me and now I can like,now I have to discern, like,

(14:46):
okay, this is for me and this isnot.
But I think when I was in thatstage of like just so much
brokenness, not having a lot ofguidance or wisdom in my life,
clear wisdom in my life, justbeing observant and listening to
people was, was really helpful.

(15:07):
Um, and then I would saywriting.
So I have, I have journalsfilled um from.
I started it when I lived in agroup home, so like um.
For people who don't know agroup home is um, it's like a
more like a facility than afoster home.
Um, and typically there are agood number of children living

(15:31):
in the home and they have stafftypically instead of like
parents, and so it was living in.
Typically children who areplaced there are placed there
because it's they can't find anyother place for them to go.
America says they don't haveorphanages, but group homes are
actually kind of similar so withusually not as many kids, it's
like a developing country.

(15:51):
But I was living in this grouphome and I said I wrote like day
one, and then that is kind ofwhere my writing journey started
and I think that I started tolearn how to just process very
ordinary things, not like deeply, not like deep things.
But I think that I started tolearn how to just process very
ordinary things, not like deeply, not like deep things.
But I think I just learned howto recall and process through
things at a young age.

(16:14):
But it's, it's so complex tosay like where, what part has
the healing journey, where hasit started and where has ended?
Because it's just continual.
You know, it's I, even though,like, sometimes writing a
self-help christiany book almostmakes me cringe because, like

(16:36):
healing just can't even be, likesomeone's individual healing
journey can't even beencompassed in like a self-help
book, because, cause, ourhealing journeys are just it's
nonlinear, it's, it's complexand um, and I think that's part
of the healing too, to learn andunderstand that like it doesn't

(16:57):
have to look this certain way,um, and I think healing comes
with a lot of like acceptance ofthe pain that still lingers.
So, like this Christmas, I thinkthere would have been a time in
my life where, when it's whenthat pain comes and when it's
really hard, I would have beenlike I need.
I must not be healed Like Ineed.

(17:17):
This needs to go away, and ifit doesn't go away, then I'm not
healed.
But I see that very differentlynow.
Then I'm not healed, but I seethat very differently now.
Like healing to me is actuallyjust like the acceptance that
this pain is lingering and thenwalking into the spaces that I
know I'm loved, rather than thespaces that are trying to change

(17:39):
me or that push out that pain.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Man Tori.
So good, so so good.
This Christmas I had somethinga little bit similar.
Growing up it was so crazy.
There were seasons of abundancewhen it came to Christmas and
seasons of total lack, grief anddeath around house.
Some Christmases and I Christmashas been complicated and I

(18:08):
think it is for a lot of peopleand it's not talked about enough
, like you're expected to justenter it with this A joy, right,
um, and then people are veryquick to joke and call you a
Scrooge or a Grinch and all that, and so it's.
It's funny, you know, like whenyou're about to cry sometimes
and you're like, okay, I have achoice now to cry or not.
Well, christmas morning it justcame out of me and so, in my

(18:33):
own way, I had a similarexperience where I was
surrounded by my son and we hadpresents and Colby was like why
are you crying?
I don't understand.
This is like a really sweetmoment and my mind went back to
the years past.
Like, like you said, our bodiesremember, our minds remember,
and I think there's aninvitation, when things like
that happen to to enter into it,to work through the healing

(18:55):
Right.
So yeah, process, and so I waslike I just need a moment to
grieve something that maybe Ihaven't grieved before, you know
, and then, and then I'll comeback, and then I'll be, and then
I'll be present.
But anyways, let's keep.
Let's keep diving through this,so, um, so, uh.
Sorry, I like I wrote way morethan I usually write in these

(19:22):
outlines.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
When I read them I was like like oh my gosh, she
really read my book.
Like I loved it.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
I appreciate it so much.
I did, yeah, but for now, formy own, like referencing, I'm
like I don't want to read ascript, um, okay so, um, wow, my
mom brain right now is like allover the place, um, but, oh,
yeah, okay.
So when I was reading the bookthis is one of the first notes

(19:51):
that I made and I think it'sgoing to be so important for so
many listening you made aconnection to being included in
a social setting with beingloved.
So being included equals beingloved, being wanted.
I'm sure you can attach otherthings to that and then, with
that, the opposite being true sobeing being left out equals not

(20:14):
being loved, not being wanted.
I think that as I was readingthat, I was like whoa, I've
totally believed that for myselfin different seasons without
being able to put those words toit.
I think that a lot of peoplelistening are probably hearing
this, thinking oh wow, maybethat's what it actually is when
I feel a sense of rejection frombeing left out.
What did it look like for youto work through this?

(20:37):
You could take this really anydirection you'd like, because I
think that there's a lot wecould talk about here, but I
kind of want you to dive intoyour working through this dive
into your working through this.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, so when I started this work, when I
started writing and speaking,when you write like you write by
yourself, you speak, sometimesyou travel with an assistant or
you travel with someone, but alot of times you're traveling by
yourself.
You're eating, literally,you're sitting in restaurants.
Like it's so awkward to whenyou start doing it, like to sit
in a restaurant all by yourself,like at a two person table and
no one's sitting across from you, and it was just like a little

(21:22):
uncomfortable.
And I think that was because inmy past is because in my past I
maybe would have friends orfamily who wouldn't invite me.
Maybe a group of friends wouldget together or a group of the

(21:43):
family would get together and Iwould later know about it and be
like why wasn't I invited?
Why wasn't I included?
And this must mean that peopledon't want me around.
And if people don't want mearound, people must not think
I'm an enjoyable person.
People must not love who I am.
You know it's just like thelies, the painful narratives of
who you are just continue tobuild and build and build when
you're not invited into spacesthat you think you should be.

(22:05):
And and of course, this stemsfrom years of trauma, of feeling
like I don't belong right infamilies.
Feeling like so I don't belongin families when I was a
childhood, when I was in duringmy childhood and then in my
adult life, I don't belong inthis friend group or I don't
belong in this family, settinginto my adoptive family or into

(22:27):
other families that have lovedme and taken me in.
And that feeling of just notbeing loved was so big, it was
just so big in me and it prettymuch consumed, like all of who I
was and I was always trying tobe whoever people wanted me to

(22:49):
be so that they could include meand so that I could be a part,
so that I could that belonging.
And then, as I started my work,I was alone often and in that
loneliness, you know, you learn.
Like you you build disciplinesright, Like that connect you

(23:12):
with God, whether that's openingyour Bible or listening to a
podcast or turning on worshipmusic so that the silence isn't
like so, so loud, right.
I feel like you start thesedisciplines and then, like when
you know these, when you'rereading these truths of what God
says about you, or when you'rehearing them, or when you're
like just sitting in them andworship that like you are loved,

(23:34):
that you are worthy, that likeJesus died for you because he
loves you, that he's he's yourfather and you're his daughter.
Then like you're able to sit inthe silence much more
comfortably, like I.
The silence I wasn't so scaredof it because when I was sitting
in that, that solitude or thatloneliness, it was like I could,

(23:57):
the lies weren't so heavy, likethey didn't come as fast
because and if they did, I waslike, oh yeah, but I actually I
know the truth of what God saysabout me, like I've read that
I've learned that I know thetruth of what God says about me,
like I've read that I'velearned that I know that.
And it became like lonelinessand I think like, of course, I'm

(24:17):
all about community, I'm allabout friendships, but I do
think there's this kind of likeholy loneliness, and obviously
the really holy people, like themonks, call it solitude and
it's this holy loneliness, itsolitude and it's this, this
holy loneliness.
We were able to sit withourselves and sit with God and
know what he, he, says about us.
It's actually a gift and Ithink it comes with practice and

(24:39):
for me, I would have never beenbrave enough to do it on my own
, like God forced me to do itthrough the work that he gave me
.
But now I used to really fearbeing alone.
In foster care I was.
I was never allowed to be alone.
You're like always with yourfoster parent and now like being
alone, it's.
It's something that I'm justnot scared of.

(25:00):
It because I I used to be soscared of the thoughts that
would come, and those don't comeanymore because I would.
I should say they don't come asfrequently and as heavily,
because I have learned what whatGod says about me and I'm not
so concerned with being includedand wanting to belong, because

(25:24):
I've seen that you know thepeople who love me, for who God
has created me to be.
Those are the people who who'velet me in and who who have
invited me, and it's I don'twant to have to strive to be, to
be something that God has notcreated me to be, me to be If it

(25:55):
wasn't for that that loneliness, I don't know if I would have
that that kind of peace.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Wow, tori, that if it wasn't for that loneliness I
wouldn't have had that peace.
Wow, yeah, I okay.
So I was thinking back when youI love that terminology instead
of solitude, the holyloneliness, because that gives
it purpose almost.
I mean, when you reallyunderstand solitude, you
understand that there's purposetoo.
But I definitely am someonethat in different seasons of my

(26:21):
life have been hurt by solitude,hurt by rejection.
You know those things right.
And there are three verydistinct seasons where I feel
like God just brought my life toa halt, like career stopped,
social life stopped, and he andI was like I have to fill this
time, I have to fill this time.
Like the silence was deafeningand he has invited me into this,

(26:42):
like no, no, no, this istotally like planned by me, this
is totally purposeful.
Just enter into this with me.
But it can be a little bitclumsy.
Like each of these seasons thathe's brought me to, I've kind
of grown the muscle of what thatlooks like and how to make it
purposeful and sweet and rich.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
But no, I get that, I get that and I love giving
people that new wording for itthat seasons of like yeah,
solitude, um, and holyloneliness serve gosh such a
rich purpose towards peace,towards peace right yeah, and I
think that when we are able tobe alone, right, or when we're

(27:24):
able to sit in that holyloneliness, I do also think that
it prepares us better forrelationships, because that I
also had, like right, thisdependence on relationships.
Like I was trying to depend onrelationships in the way that
I'm supposed to depend on God.
I was expecting people toinclude me and validate me and
affirm me when I felt like Ididn't belong, when I felt like

(27:47):
I was lonely, when I felt like Iwas hurting.
And that should be somethingthat naturally we go to God for.
And that doesn't mean that wedon't go to friendships and we
don't go to relationships forthat, Like I said at the
beginning, like I could go toTanya and I can literally cry on
her shoulder and she's therefor me.
We want relationships like that.
But at the same time, I think ifwe expect, our like solely that

(28:09):
our relationships fill thatrole and we don't know how to
turn to God, then what we do iswe actually corrode and we can
kind of burn throughrelationships because people
aren't God right, People aren'tlimitless.
Only God is limitless, and sowe need to turn to him with
those big burdens or what we endup doing is we end up trauma
dumping, we end up making ourfriends carry these very heavy

(28:30):
burdens.
And again, we're supposed tocarry each other's burdens.
But in my case what I was doingbecause I wasn't aware of the
way that my trauma wasmanifesting in me and how heavy
it all was I was really making alot of other people.
I was expecting people to carrythose loads for me and to be.
I was expecting humans to be tome, what God was is supposed to

(28:54):
be to me.
And so I think when we're ableto sit in that holy loneliness,
we can actually enter intofriendships and into
relationships much stronger.
And I think that sometimes welook at seasons of loneliness
like you're saying, like this isso sad and this is so hard.
But actually if we change thatperspective and say, could this

(29:16):
possibly be a gift in which Godis trying to prepare me so that
I can enter into relationshipsand maintain them more holy and
more wholesome and more healthyholy and more wholesome and more
healthy then I think that whenwe look at holy loneliness that
way, it can really be a blessingthat in a season that

(29:36):
transforms us.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Oh, my goodness, my friend, I've never like.
You know, when people go listento poetry and they snap.
I've never done that.
I felt like the appropriateresponse Just to kind of close
this out for listeners.
If someone's like, okay, Itotally am the person that

(30:00):
connects kind of like beingincluded with being loved.
This is something that I wantto work on.
Can you give them a few, eitherlike thoughts to meditate on or
action steps to kind of worktowards rewriting them?

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah Well, first, I think when we are maybe left out
, we first think about theperson or the group that's
leaving us out.
And what I have had to realizeis I can just need to give
people the benefit of the doubt,like there's probably a reason
that I maybe wasn't invited, andit's probably a good reason,
and it probably has very littleto do with me and maybe

(30:38):
something to do with theenvironment or something to do
with, like, the situation, um,or maybe just like as simple as
forgetfulness.
And it's not because, like,they're forgetting about you,
it's just because or they'reforgetting about me, it's just
because, like, we all have heavy, hard lives, like, and we're
all juggling a lot.
Maybe it's not heavy and hard,but we're just juggling a lot

(30:59):
and so I think giving people thebenefit of the doubt is just
that's been something that'sjust really helped me, like and
to see the best intentions andthe people around me.
Yeah, um and uh.
The other thing is you know,when you are left out or when
you are not invited, I'll sorry.
You like what you were like.
Let's wrap this up, and now I'mgonna tell you a whole other.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, please I'm gonna tell you a whole other story.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Do it, I might, yeah yeah, recently there's like this
dream speaking engagement.
I think that every Christianwoman aspires for.
It is a massive women'sconference and a lot of my
cohorts and friends go there andthey speak there and it's
beautiful, the work that happensthere, the work that the Lord

(31:44):
does, and I've never beeninvited there.
But during the same weekend Iwas invited to a much, much,
much, much smaller conferencelike one percent of what of the
people and I went there and Iwas just feeling like so
discouraged and that's in, allthese lies just started, you

(32:07):
know, through my mind.
They just started coming and itwas like you don't belong at
that other conference.
You're too rough around theedges.
You'll never belong there.
Your past has like ruined youto be in a space like that.
And I'm, you know, all mycohorts and my like speaker
friends, my author friends, arelike making posts that they're
there and I'm, like you know, Ifeel like the only person that's

(32:27):
not there, the only womanthat's not there.
They're there and I'm, like youknow, I feel like the only
person that's not there, theonly woman that's not there.
But I am at this, in this spacethat I'm supposed to be in, and
I just like I just really inthe moment, like I, there was a
huge part of me that just Ididn't want to be there.
I was like I want to be, Ididn't want to be where I was, I

(32:47):
wanted to be somewhere else.
You, you belong here.
It's not that you don't belongthere, it's just that you do
belong right here.
And something that I tell myselfin a lot of different
situations is that these areGod's kids too, because

(33:12):
oftentimes we're, maybe we'renot, maybe we're not in the
space that we want to be in, butwe are in some kind of space.
And so how can we serve andlove and show up just as
zealously as we would at this?
Bigger, more, you know, biggerit's really just bigger.
There's nothing else thatnecessarily makes it more

(33:33):
valuable, other than that it'sbigger, and bigger actually
doesn't mean more valuable.
And so one of the ways thatI've just reminded myself when I
am doing unseen work in my home, or when I'm doing unseen work
as a good neighbor in mycommunity that is probably never

(33:54):
going to be put on social mediaon social media when I am doing
work at a much smallerconference and not like a bigger
conference, the reminder isjust that these are God's kids
too.
They are just as valuable inthe work, and the people here
deserve exactly how you wouldshow up in any other space.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
You're talking to so many hearts, my friend.
So good, so, so good.
There's a lot to chew on there,but I, like I said we could be
here all day, so I got.
I might jump back to that point, but I do want to ask you this
next question, which all ofthese themes kind of overlap a

(34:37):
little bit.
But there's a quote that we usea lot in culture to love Like
you've never been hurt.
And you have a chapter in yourbook that I I read the title I
was like, ooh, this is going tobe a good one to actually love
Like like you've been hurt.
And I want to read a quote fromthe chapter.

(34:59):
What would it look like for ourhurt to be used when we fully
acknowledge our wounds?
Our hurt doesn't control usthrough triggers.
Rather, our hurt motivates usto serve those who have been
through what we've been through.
My friend, so many of us havebeen taught that relationships

(35:20):
need to be carefully curated, toonly engage in them when you're
able to be emotionally spot onor fully present.
I think that there are a lot ofthese subconscious narratives
when it comes to hospitality,when it comes to adult
relationships, all of thesethings.
So what would you say tosomeone who is wanting to
explore this for the first time,who is like this does not

(35:43):
reflect my current community, mycurrent understanding of
relationships that I really wantto love from this, from the
place of my hurt.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, so this chapter was born out of really out of a
prayer meeting.
So it was at my church and mychurch does prayer meetings
every Monday at noon and, um, wewere, we like it's just a group
of people and they just pray,um out loud.
And so my pastor, he actuallyspoke up and he started praying

(36:16):
and he said we just pray for thetrailer park in town.
What they're going through hasto be so hard.
If there's anything we can do,lord, just help us, guide us.
And I literally like stoppedthe prayer meeting.
I was like what's going on inthe trailer park?
Because I actually used to livein the trailer park and the
trailer park in our town isweird, like it's like in the

(36:37):
middle of our city, like in the.
I don't live in a city, I livein a town, um, but it's like in
the middle of the town, um, inthe midst of all this commercial
, these bigger commercial stores.
It's very strange like thelocation of it and things.
Um, and the people who livethere are probably some of the

(36:57):
most, if not the most,impoverished people in our
community, and so I lived therewhen I was a kid and so it just
like really shook me like what'sgoing on?
And he said so it's privateproperty, and so they have their
own water lines, and he saidthat their water had been shut
off because of the water linesnot being taken care of.

(37:21):
It was contaminating otherparts in the city, um, with I
don't know what, but with likevery dangerous stuff, um, and so
they had to turn the water offand they couldn't go to the
bathroom, they couldn't shower,they didn't have drinking water,
and I was just like, okay,what's happening in like a
developing countries ishappening in our town, and I

(37:41):
just like I just like left.
I was like I have to go figureout what we need to do, and so I
left the prayer meeting and Icalled the mayor and I was like
what is happening?
What can we do?
Um, and he gave me the thephone number of the manager of
the trailer park and I, um, Icalled her right away and she

(38:02):
was just like a wall up, did notwant to talk to me at all, and
she was just like we're going toget it fixed.
We're going to get it fixed.
Like you know, I think shethought it was like a city
official, like someone, justanother person like coming at
her and, um, I was justlistening to her and I was
trying to ask her, like, okay,what can we do?
Like how can we help?
Like I'm just a communitymember here, I'm not any person

(38:28):
in power trying to shut down thetrailer park or anything.
And she just was very likewe're going to get it fixed.
You know this.
This problem isn't your problem, don't worry about it.
And I could tell she was justkind of done with the the
conversation and I was like,okay, before we get off the
phone, can I just tell you, um,that I actually used to live in
the trailer park as a kid and Irealized I probably should have
started there.
Um, in her, you could just likehear her wall crumble across,

(38:53):
like on the phone, and she waslike, oh really, and her voice
just broke.
And she's like actually, wereally.
And her voice just broke andshe was like, actually, we could
really use drinking water.
She was like can you get us abunch of bottled water in
drinking cups?
And we were just done.
We went and got a ton ofpallets of water from Walmart

(39:13):
and delivered them to the peoplein the trailer park and it was
just this moment of like I hadto show her my hurt and my
brokenness and my pain, and Iwas trying to do it without that
, yeah, and it didn't work.
And so and I think in this, thislove like you've never been
hurt, the idea is that we stepinto spaces and we forget to

(39:40):
relate to the broken people thatwe're serving.
We forget to bring our ownbrokenness and our own pain into
the situation, and what itactually does is it actually
usually causes more hurt.
We're offering sympathy and notempathy.
We are stepping on a stage andpointing fingers rather than

(40:02):
holding hands and walking withpeople or sitting across from
people, and I think it's justreally necessary that we
remember our hurt when we'retrying to love other people who
are hurting, or else they canjust cause a lot more hurt in a
lot of ways.
And I have I actually there'sso many other, you know cause

(40:22):
you read the book.
There are other stories that Iadmit that I caused hurt because
I had forgotten my own hurt andI was trying to maybe function
in a way that I had seen reallystrong leaders function in the
church or I had seen people whoyou know had a lot of influence
or who were, you know they havethese big titles and so I was

(40:44):
trying to kind of function andlead like they did and with the
people that I serve.
That just doesn't work, likeand, and so I just think that
that quote like love like we'venever been hurt Really if, if we
look at it, we need to rethinkit and we need to love like we

(41:06):
have been hurt.
We need to remember our hurt,we need to, we need to process
our hurt, we need to understandit, we need to heal from it, and
we also need to remember it forthe sake of the people that we,
for the sake of the people thatwe serve.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh, my goodness, I feel like so many of us are on
this quest for belonging andpurpose but at the same time
wanting to erase these chaptersof our past, and I think that
one leads to another.
Like I was telling my husbandrecently, this is a very, very
small scale, very small story,but bullied a lot middle school

(41:40):
and high school, verbally,physically and I told myself I
would never move back to myhometown.
We moved away.
God had us here and has had ushere for five years and I've had
to face that a lot and face itagain.
Like I drive by the schools,like all those things right, and
I kept telling my husband Iwish I could.
Just I wish that wasn't part ofmy story.
I wish that wasn't part of mystory.

(42:04):
I wish that wasn't part of mystory.
And in the past few months Godhas really shown me that through
working through this, I knowhow to see people now in a
different way.
I don't just see people, I seehearts, right, and you're able
to just respond so differentlywhen you love, like you've been
hurt, right, like and if, andthat looks so different for all
of us.
Right, like maybe someone it'sa season of a really difficult

(42:26):
cancer diagnosis, or a sickparent, a childhood loss I could
look like anything.
And if we all respond there, ohmy gosh, what a robust I like,
then everyone's cared for.
I don't know what I'm having ahard time processing that Right
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
I don't know what.
I'm having a hard timeprocessing that.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Right, exactly.
Yeah, you know.
What I'm saying Is that, likeit's the first time I'm
processing that, so it's alittle choppy, but no, it's,
it's exactly right, like umanother story that I shared in
the book, which I you know.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
But, um, I had a friend named Alexa in college
and her dad had passed away andwhen I was in college, I had
this quote unquote job.
It wasn't like a real job.
I was an athlete in college andall the athletes had the same
job and that was to look overthe weight room while people

(43:14):
were working out and we just alldid our homework, but I was
paid for it, so I was doing myjob.
I was sitting outside of theweight room and there were like
classrooms surrounding theweight room and Alexa comes out
of her class and she just likefalls into my arms.
She starts crying.
I know that her dad recentlypassed away and I told her I was

(43:35):
like Alexa, you just need totrust God.
And I mean she just like wailed, like the cry that she let out
was so big.
And she was like Alexa, youjust need to trust God.
And I mean she just like wailed, like the cry that she let out
was so big.
And she was like Tori, my dadjust died.
And I was like, oh yeah, like,but I said that because that's
what I had heard other Christianleaders say and I so I was, for
context I was saved when I was17 and then went straight off to

(43:56):
college and you know the, theChristian.
I went to a Christian collegeand those were the people that I
looked to for guidance on howto be a faith leader and how to
um, just how to express my faith.
And when I had had my ownemotional turmoil and mental

(44:16):
struggles in college from mytrauma from my childhood, that's
what I had heard people saylike you just need to trust God,
you just need to pray more.
And so when and it was funnybecause like it did hurt me,
like it hurt me a lot, because Iwas like, wait, I do trust God,
like I do pray, I do love God,but like I just I that doesn't
mean that I'm completely healedfrom being a being abused for

(44:39):
years, from being tossed aroundfrom home to home, from being
disposable to people Like thoseare really big pains.
And like when I said that toAlexa, it's like I forgot that
losing your dad, your earthlyfather, is a really big pain.
And so I think it's justanother example of like when we
forget our own hurt, we hurtother people, we, we resort to

(45:06):
shallow maxims, we resort toquick fixes and like we just
have to remember that, like Godis not a bandaid, you know and
our faith is not a bandaid.
Know and our faith is not abandaid, and when we treat it as
such and when we forget, youknow just the depthness that our

(45:31):
hurt and pain and suffering canactually offer in situations of
other people's hurt.
It can just be so damaging andwhen we remember it, it can be
so healing for us and for andfor other people.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Wow.
That goes so againsthospitality culture right now in
the most beautiful way.
I feel like so many of us arelike hospitality is not working,
community is not working, andit's like this is an alternative
that comes with immediate,immediate change.
So thank you for leading inthat so authentically.
Well, I've talked about a fewof the themes in the book that

(46:10):
stood out to me that I wanted totouch on, but what about for
you?
What are you excited forreaders to consume work through
as they get their hands on thebook?

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, above all else, I think.
Um, so there's a story I sharein the book.
It's actually around Christmas.
Um, I don't know when this isgoing to be released, but just
for context, everybody, this isbeing recorded five days after
Christmas, so that's why we keepbringing out Christmas, um, and

(46:42):
so I was probably like threeyears into marriage and my
husband and I were kind oforganizing presents for
everybody and, um, one of thenicest presents in the in all of
the presents was this leatherbag and I put it in this woman's
pile.
Her name was Kimberly.
Kimberly wasn't always verykind to me, but I really wanted

(47:03):
Kimberly to love me.
She was just like this woman atthe church, you know, like a
leader in the church.
I wanted to be accepted by andloved by, and my husband was
like we're not giving that toKimberly.
He was like why are all thenicest gifts in Kimberly's pile?
Like you need to give yourfamily nicer gifts.
You never give your family nicegifts.
I was kind of offended.
I was like what do you mean?
I don't give my family nicegifts?
What are you talking about?

(47:24):
But like it was all laid out infront of me, right, and so I
have to actually like, be honestand evaluate it and my family
actually didn't have nice giftsand what I realized was that
this was a pattern allthroughout my life and it was
it's really like the overarchingpattern that has, um, just
really hurt a lot of myrelationships and that has hurt

(47:45):
me, and that's that I haveignored the people that love me
and love the people that ignoreme, and I pursue the people that
reject me and reject the peoplethat pursue me.
And, um, and we all do it in ourown, I think.
I think a lot, I shouldn't sayall.
I think a lot of us do it inour own subtle ways, and
realizing that and changing ithas been very transformational

(48:08):
for me, and so my hope is thatpeople just see these like very
subtle.
These patterns are subtle, aresubtle, and so my hope is that
people see the very subtle,quiet patterns in their life and
that they see that they trulyare loved and they begin to
function from the identity ofnot having to earn love but from
the identity of being truly,genuinely, fully known and loved

(48:32):
.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Oh my gosh, so good, tori, it's so good.
Well, okay, I keep having allthese side thoughts, but I want
to lead it all here because Iknow I would imagine you're
going to talk more about it atyour conference, right, it's
right after your book launch?
Oh, yes, and so for anyonelistening, that's like I just

(48:56):
want to hear more.
I want to soak in more, I wantto be around more of this
messaging and content andinspiration.
You have an upcoming conferencecalled Loved Already, and the
description of the conference isempowering you to live out your
true identity right where youare, with what you have and,
from what I know of you and somemutual friends that are going

(49:18):
to be there Alicia Bricholi is adear, dear friend Yep, I know
it's going to be incrediblytransformational for everyone
that's there.
With your love of hospitality,girlfriend that you like, have
this in the bag.
It's going to be so good.
But can you tell listenersmaybe a little bit more about
what they can expect and howthey can sign up?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, so the conference is March 29th 2025 in
Defiance, ohio, and everybody'swelcome.
And our objective really is tomake people feel like they're
right at home, like they're likeright in their home church,
even if they're not, or they'reright in their community.
And it is connective and it ismeant to bring women together
and just lead them to anauthentic intimacy with Christ.

(50:03):
We say that we do not want tocreate an emotional high for a
day that's what a lot ofconferences do but we want to
reflect in intimacy with Christduring the conference so that
women can carry that out for thedays, weeks, months and years
to come.
Um, and so we bring in umspeakers from all over, speakers

(50:24):
, teachers, preachers, um womenspeaker, teachers and preachers
from all over and we worshiptogether and we learn together.
Um, and we connect together.
And, yeah, if you'd like tocome, you can go to Tori Hope
Petersoncom slash loved alreadyand, uh, there are conference
tickets there and we would loveto have you.

(50:45):
We invite you.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Amazing, ah, so much richness.
Well, um, we're going to endwith three questions that we ask
every guest, and I want to hearyour answers as well, um, but
first, why don't you tell peoplewhere to buy the book and where
to follow you?

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Yeah, um.
So my new book is calledBreaking the Patterns that Break
you Healing from the Pain ofyour Past and Finding Real Hope.
That Last, and you canpre-order it anywhere books are
sold.
Amazon does it.
I know some people areanti-Amazon, do your thing, but
it is 25% off on Amazon rightnow.
So if you're a deal getter, ifyou like the deals, um, yeah,

(51:23):
you can pre-order it anywherebooks are sold.
And, um, you can follow me atTori Hope Peterson.
Um, just something to rememberis that Peterson is not S O N,
it's S E.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
N.
I did that.
I wrote that right on our shownotes and oh well, you know.
So I caught it somewhere, butnot okay.
Thank you for saying that.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
No, no, I didn't say that Cause it was you.
Oh, I hope you didn't.
I say that.
No, I didn't say that Cause Isay it on every podcast, because
my husband gave me a last namethat everyone spells wrong, so
it wasn't you, I was not sayingthat because I was like I was
like darn it, you saw.
No, no, Go listen to all thepodcasts I do.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
I say it on every single one.
I promise I was sending outChristmas cards.
We have three Petersons that wesend Christmas cards to.
They're all spelt differently.
I know somewhere like somespell it with a D too.
Oh, my goodness, no one of themwas an I N, peter S I N.
Oh, I've never seen that before.
I know so I'm also the queen oftypos, so I was like this is

(52:25):
very typical of me, sorry, tori.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
No, I didn't even notice.
I didn't even notice.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Okay, let's have fun with these questions.
So the first one is somethingyou have eaten recently and
loved.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Last night my husband and I were watching a show
together and this is like as'more, but without the work.
So you get the graham crackerand you get vanilla frosting,
put it in the fridge and thenchocolate chips on top of it.
Like a s'more, but without thefire and the roasting and the
work.
You know what I'm saying.
Delicious Graham cracker,chilled icing homemade icing is

(53:03):
the best, but if you don't wantto be fancy, just get the kind
from the store and chocolatechips.
That's so fun.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
I feel like we're entering into that like lazy
cooking season for people.
Everyone's all cooked and bakedout.
Oh girl, yeah, it's a lazycooking.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I love cooking, like love it, and it's a lazy cooking
season.
Oh wait, I have to give you onemore.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Yeah, please, I got a .

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Costco membership for Christmas and Costco meatloaf
it's like a.
It's like pre-made, like theyhave.
Like, if you go in the back,they have all these like
pre-made meals and they'realready made.
You just have to put them inthe oven and their meatloaf it's
like a meatloaf with mashedpotatoes.
You must get it.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
So I'm you don't have to cook it.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I'm a huge Costco girl.
We're new friends, you'll learnthat very quick about me.
So, my favorite I haven't hadthe meatloaf yet, so I'll have
to try it.
The stuffed peppers have youhad the stuffed peppers?
I haven't, but now I'm going totry that.
Those are just as phenomenal,yeah, so okay, we'll do a swap
this week.
You get the peppers, I get themeatloaf.

(54:04):
That's awesome.
Okay, how about a gathering youattended that made you feel a
strong sense of belonging?

Speaker 2 (54:13):
And, if you could pinpoint it, what it was that
made you feel that way.
So my last speaking engagementof the year which it wasn't
really I shouldn't even callthis speaking engagement because
it wasn't it was like nothingI've ever attended before.
Um, it was.
So it was some of the top, itwas some of the top leaders, um,
in child welfare, and childwelfare is a fancy more policy,
um, politicky word for um fostercare, child protection, and so

(54:38):
it was a group of like 20 peopleand I was invited and I just
felt I was the only formerfoster youth.
So, or something we say like inthe space is like person with
lived experience in the room.
Other people had been leadersand influencers in the space in

(54:59):
different ways and a lot of themhave been researchers, had just
done incredible.
There's not a lot of research,there's not as much research as
there could be on foster care,and that's what makes getting
good results of foster care sochallenging.
And so they're just some of themost intelligent researchers

(55:19):
and people I had ever beenaround and I learned so much
from them and I mean thesepeople were just, they were
truly some of the sharpestpeople I have ever met and you
know you get into those spacesand you're like why did I get
invited here?
But they just like they were,just like you belong here.
You know you're incredible Likewe see you as one of the

(55:42):
smartest people we ever met andI was like you're crazy.
But just their acceptance of meand the way that they listened
to my story and the perspectivesthat I had around foster care
and how we can create betteroutcomes for children were just
so welcomed and it was.
It was really neat.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Wow, yeah, it was very, very cool.
So, wow, wow, wow, so gratefulthat you got invited and
thankful that those meetings arehappening.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
And just to like the synopsis of that, because, like
now, people are welcoming peopleinto their home, often on this
podcast, like, right, I wasinvited, I was listened to, my
voice was valued, just, I'msaying this cause like, how do
we actually then apply this?
No, I mean valued and and yeah,I was invited, my voice was

(56:36):
valued and I think I was just Iwas listened to and then I was
asked, I was asked morequestions, like it.
It was invited, my voice wasvalued and I think I was just I
was listened to and then I wasasked, I was asked more
questions, like it.
It was like I had, I hadsomething to offer and then they
thought I had even more tooffer after I thought I didn't.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
So yeah, that's so incredible.
So many levels my background incollege I studied social work
before I did a huge career shiftand so I know, I know.
So I'm like I wonder who wasthere.
Maybe I know some people.
I still follow some people inthe space.
Okay, this is always a fun one.
Something you've discoveredrecently that you think everyone

(57:13):
should know about a Netflixshow, amazon purchase anything
fun and random.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Okay, I'm going to do a book.
Um, yeah, I'm sorry I didn'tdiscover it recently.
It's actually been my favoritebook for a long time, but my my
dad got it.
So, um, it's this.
My my dad got me this book forChristmas this year because, um,
someone came to my house thisyear and they were like what is
your favorite?
I have this.

(57:39):
I'm like sitting by mybookshelf and it's there's a lot
of books in it, and this personwas like, what is your favorite
book?
And I gave it to her and shewas like I well, I like gave it.
Like I handed it to her.
I was like this is my favoritebook.
And then she was like I want totake this home.
And I was like, okay, this home.
And I was like, okay, but thenI was kind of sad because I was
like, wait, that's my favoritebook.

(58:00):
Like I wanted to give it to her.
But also then I was like, wait,now I don't have my favorite
book because it's um.
So my dad got it for me thisyear, um, and he got me the hard
cover and I had the soft cover.
So I felt like I've been, Ihaven't read it and I haven't
opened it in like four years, um, but I started leafing through
it and it's called Love Henryand it is letters by Henry Nowen

(58:22):
, who is probably one of myfavorite Christian writers,
authors, and so you can justlike open it at kind of any time
anywhere and just read a letter, and you can read a bunch, or
you can read one or two, andthrough every letter I usually
feel convicted or just held and,yeah, I love it.

(58:44):
It's a comforting and verysweet book Love Henry.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I 've actually never even heard of it, so that's a
new one to me.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Yeah, I don't think it's not like a popular book,
but it's a good one, very good.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Those are the best ones.
Yeah Well, I don't even knowhow to wrap this conversation up
.
I feel like I'm at a loss forwords just because I don't feel
done yet, but I know it's sogood.
Well, guys, I hope that as youare listening today, you feel
seen and known and hope.
I hope you feel a lot of hopeof cycles can be broken and

(59:19):
freedom can happen and there'scommunity available, there's new
stories available.
Your story's not over yet,right?
And yeah, there's hope.
Yeah Well, be sure to followTori Head on over, look at her
conference, see if you're ableto make it, buy her upcoming
book.
Remind me, it's February.

(59:40):
What's the release date?
February, february 4th.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
You can pre-order it now, and then you get it on
February 4th.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
That's the best.
That's like my favorite way toorder books and to support my
favorite authors.
So well, guys, share theepisode.
If you loved it, leave a reviewand we will see you next week.