March 30, 2025 • 48 mins
Feeling buried under the invisible weight of family life? You're not alone. Dr. Morgan Cutlip joins us for a raw, honest conversation about the unspoken reality of marriage after children.
This conversation tackles the infamous "mental load" – that seemingly endless running to-do list. Dr. Cutlip brilliantly breaks it down into three overlapping domains: physical tasks, mental planning, and emotional labor. The "triple threat" tasks requiring all three simultaneously explain why parenthood can feel so depleting. And yes, she confirms, this directly impacts desire and intimacy in ways other mental load discussions rarely address.
What sets this discussion apart is the practical hope it offers. Rather than falling into what Dr. Cutlip calls the "hardship Olympics" where partners compete over who has it worse, she offers tools to break cycles of resentment that trap many couples.
Dr. Cutlip's upcoming book "A Better Share" promises a refreshing approach that views couples as teammates against the impossible standards of modern parenting rather than opponents. For anyone feeling lost in the fog of early parenthood or wondering if their relationship struggles are normal – this conversation offers validation, practical tools, and most importantly, the assurance that you can find your way back to connection.
Pre-order Dr. Morgan Cutlip's book "A Better Share: How Couples Can Tackle the Mental Load for More Fun, Less Resentment and Great Sex" available April 8th, 2025, wherever books are sold.
Follow Morgan @drmorgancutlip
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Making Room.
I am so excited that you'rehere.
This conversation, man, oh man.
We've had some marriageconversations on the show, but
none quite like this one.
You probably roll your eyesevery time I bring up a Wesley
story.
You guys know that I am in thethick of postpartum and recently
Colby and I are realizing, themore we talk to friends in
(00:22):
seasons like ours, the samenarrative comes up that there is
a strain in a relationship thatkind of surprises us or
surprises our friends in ourlife, kind of like nobody talks
about it.
It's one of those things goinginto parenthood that people
don't talk about as freely and Iwish they did, which is why
we're making room for thatconversation today with our new
(00:43):
friend, morgan Cutlip.
If you guys followed us on, ifyou follow us on socials,
actually, you'll know that Colbyand I actually just launched a
parents night out to worktowards this very thing
supporting marriages withparents that have young kids,
and so this is all coincidental.
I didn't plan it to line uplike this, but it is a really
sweet time because of ourheartbeat in the season,
(01:05):
something that I hope encouragesyou to.
Well, here is a little bit moreabout our new friend, dr Morgan
Cutlip.
She is an author andrelationship expert.
With her down-to-earth style,she equips couples and
individuals to tackle thetrickiest relationship issues,
offering fresh perspectives andempowering frameworks.
She's experienced and trainedin translating psychological
(01:28):
theory and research intopractical, accessible and
actionable advice so helpfulwhich she shares with her
clients and social mediafollowers through her books,
courses, podcast and her blog.
As co-founder ofmylovethinkscom, dr Morgan
earned her master's in humandevelopment and family science
and her doctorate in counselingpsychology.
(01:48):
She is the author of Love yourKids Without Losing Yourself.
We all need a copy of that oneand a mother of two incredible
kids, wife to her high schoolsweetheart and lifelong lover of
all things relationship.
Her latest book that we aregoing to be talking about today,
a Better Share, will beavailable nationwide April 8th
2025.
(02:08):
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Speaker 2 (03:02):
Hi, I'm Katie, a hospitality educator and the
host of Making Room by Gatherpodcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness andwith it I was given a choice to
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it.
(03:25):
And for me that meant twothings that I needed the healing
to learn how to accept aninvitation and the confidence to
know how to extend one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through making room by gather,you will hear conversations from
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
(03:47):
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
the table, but can I tell yousomething?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Oh man, oh my look at us what a nice intro I love it,
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
That was one of those.
I don't even think I've told mylisteners this.
We had a different intro forlike two years and I was in the
shower one day and I just hadthis like inspiration and that
was born like inspiration andthat was born.
(04:24):
That's how that happened.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I love it.
It's so true, though, like theconfidence to extend an
invitation is a real thing, so Iloved it.
Well done.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Well, I'm actually glad I'mdoing a batch record right now,
talking to a lot of amazingguests, and this is my last of
the day, and I was thinking if Istarted my day with this one, I
probably would have been teary.
I woke up a little sleepdeprived and this is such a
important conversation and soyou're just going to get I'm two
cups of coffee in so I havemore clarity a little less
(05:00):
emotional.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
No matter how you show up, we're going to have a
good conversation.
Let's do it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Well, let's kick off.
I love starting with abackstory or some history.
I think it's really importantjust in getting to know you.
I studied social work.
That's my major.
I'm a sociology geek, apsychology nerd.
I love it all In your bio.
I love that you say that youtake kind of like high level
theory and break it down.
(05:29):
But I'm a girl where I'm likeno, no, no, give me like the,
give me in raw form, because Ijust geek out, I geek it, I love
all of it, but I want to hearmore about your background.
So what could take this,whatever direction you think is
most relevant?
What led you to either thisbook?
What led you to studypsychology?
(05:50):
Where do you want to take it?
I mean, I'll take it everywhere.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So so my interest in psychology started way back when
I was in like around secondgrade actually.
So my dad went back to schoolto get his doctorate in
psychology when I was growing upand I used to go to class with
him sometimes and so I packedlike a little toy briefcase
(06:15):
filled with candy and paper andI would sit there and I would
take notes and I just it waslike such a special time with my
dad.
So it was a pretty long driveto campus and we would play this
game.
And we played this for many,many years where he would give
me a hypothetical counselingcase.
So maybe it was a couple, maybeit was a family, maybe it was a
(06:36):
little kid, and he would saywhat are you going to do?
How are you going to help them?
What do you think's going on?
What do you think's going onwith the little boy in the
family?
And we would analyze it.
And it became just like this Iwas like obsessed with this game
.
So every time we get in the carI'd be like give me another
case, let me talk it through.
So I feel like I just grew upwith this deep love for this
(06:58):
work, the enjoyment of kind oflike, analyzing it and picking
it apart.
And then my dad ended up a fewyears or many years, I guess,
into his private practice,starting to develop relationship
education courses.
So way before like every singleperson online had a course.
He was like teaching courseslive and at conferences, and so
(07:19):
I started traveling with him,sometimes I'd speak with him, I
went to conferences with himmarriage conferences from a
pretty young age too, and so itjust kind of grew up in the work
and I knew I wanted to workalongside him and we did for
about 15 years and I'll neverforget I think I was in maybe
(07:39):
like end of high school, earlycollege, and we were driving
home from one of the speakingengagements and I said, you know
, I don't know what this lookslike for me yet, but someday I
really want to support women.
It's like that's going to be mything, like you got yours, this
is going to be mine.
And um, it really wasn't untilI became a mom that I was like,
(08:02):
oh, here it is and this is whatI want to do, because I went
into motherhood with very highexpectations of myself and, um,
a complete like, just like naive, naivete I can never say that
word properly.
I don't like to sound likenaivete.
It sounds ridiculous.
But like I was naive going intomotherhood thinking you know,
(08:26):
whatever, I'll work rightalongside my baby, I'll do the.
You know, it's going to besimple, she's going to be easy.
Like this whole idea of likeeven what my kid would be like.
I had all of these sort ofnotions going into motherhood
about what it would feel like tobe a mom, what it looked like
as a mom, how my kid would be,and they were just completely
shattered.
I was totally buried bymotherhood.
I felt completely, um,incapable and lost and in this
(08:51):
fog and home I felt like ahomesick feeling.
I just felt so overwhelmed andI was like, okay, if I went into
this with all this background,all this education, all this
knowledge, and this is how I'mfeeling.
Moms most moms have to feelsome sort of like piece of this
too, and so that's my.
(09:11):
My first book really has myheart in it.
It's it's it's a reallyimportant book to me and I share
a lot of my story and give areally practical framework for
moms the other piece of it.
So this is a longer intro thanyou said I love it.
The other piece of it was thatour marriage took a hit, so like
(09:33):
I.
So it's like I took a hit as anindividual.
I realized that I had to makechanges in how I showed up, in
my life and in my relationshipif I was going to actually enjoy
motherhood.
Otherwise, I was going to notresent my kids, but sort of like
resent what it has done to mylife, if that makes sense.
I love being a mom, but it justshakes things up so
(09:55):
dramatically.
But then also my husband took ajob change.
We were living in Florida at thetime and when our daughter her
name is Effie when she was twomonths old, he moved to
California and I stayed behinduntil she was 10 months.
So I did all that new stuffkind of on my own and um didn't
involve him very much cause hewas gone a lot, but also I was
(10:17):
sort of like gatekeeping and um,he didn't jump in.
Well, he was kind of like Idon't know, you know, you do, I
don't know what I'm doing.
And I was like I don't knowwhat I'm doing, like why are you
?
And so I I felt reallyirritated and resentful and
frustrated and also the amountof responsibilities that pile on
the immediately after kid isborn is just mind-blowing, and
(10:39):
so I was just buried by thechanges motherhood brought, and
I was really frustrated andoverwhelmed by the changes that
happened in my relationship andalso the amount of
responsibility.
So that's really.
Book two is about that piece ofit, which is the mental load
and how it impacts yourrelationship.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I am so grateful that you're having this conversation
.
I think that a lot of theseconversations could happen just
from textbook or study.
I'm not grateful for it, butgrateful you know what I mean
that you're using your story askind of like a launching pad for
it.
I think it's important becauseyou know the heart of the person
that we're talking to today.
But the timing of thisconversation is crazy.
(11:24):
Wesley is a year and a half andlove him.
Love him to pieces.
He's like, he's the best, he'severything that I could have
dreamed of and more.
I'm one of three girls and asingle mom, so we I came from
all like girl energy, so thisboy thing is new to me, but we
we love him.
But the relationship side,colby and I lived
(11:47):
internationally together, whichmeans that we had an
international move both ways,lived there for just about four
years, adjusted to a new culture, started a small business.
Whenever you go through thatchecklist of life stressors, we
hit basically everyone and thatwas like the start of our
marriage.
We realized nobody says ornobody kind of prepares you for
(12:09):
the way that marriage or thatparenting can strain a
relationship.
And so recently we've been like, oh my gosh, what in the world
is happening and thankfully wehave great communication.
But we've talked to some of ourother friends and the same
narrative comes up.
They're going through the samething and they feel like there
must be just something wrongwith them or their relationship.
(12:30):
It's an isolating thing.
People feel totally alone orlike they lack the skill
whatever.
There's a lot of like blaming,right of spouse or self.
So I want to hear from you justto kind of like validate or
affirm I don't know peoplelistening how common is it for
parents of young kids toexperience strain in their
(12:53):
relationship and why?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
It's the norm, so that people need to know that
there's tons and tons I don'tremember the last time it was
studied because they just keptfinding the same findings which
is that after kids, um, maritalsatisfaction declines.
And you shouldn't know, like II I never really want to put
energy or information out in theworld.
That is like a hope slasher.
(13:16):
So you should know that that isa temporary shift.
Um, there's other things thatactually do change in a positive
direction, like sort of like um, finding meaning in life
actually increases after kidsand those types of things.
But, yeah, your relationshipsatisfaction dips for a bit, and
so I feel like it's reallyimportant that we are now just
there's a, there's a fundamentalshift in the relationship where
(13:47):
we're now having to uh,entertain and take care of
somebody else's needs, andbabies are just like a ball of
meat.
So it takes a lot of our energyand a lot of our focus, and so,
um, it's really important toremember that.
I think, in general, um, like agood rule of relationships to
keep in mind is that life thatis like absolutely no fault of
(14:10):
anyone else.
The good stuff, like you listeda bunch moves starting a
business, renovating a home,having a baby, you know, an
illness, like all of these partsof life that are not
necessarily anyone's fault.
They naturally just pull ourrelationships apart.
They naturally drive a wedge andsort of imbalance or or like
sort of like deflate theconnections in our relationship.
(14:33):
And so, um, we, we need to likehave a movement that normalizes
that so we don't feel so ashamedand also so that we can talk
about it with people who aresupportive of our relationships.
And it also means that weactually have to be intentional
about taking care of ourrelationship, because the danger
isn't that we sort of end up inthis sort of disconnected place
(14:53):
.
The danger is, if we justpermanently stay there which is
what happens to couples afterkids who sort of become kind of
like, you know, out of balancein the relationship, and then
you know, 20 years later, thekids leave the house, or 18
years later or something, andthey're like, oh, we just grew
apart and it's like, well, youknow, yeah, because you know you
(15:15):
got in this busy season but youdidn't work to come back
together and so it's okay to bein this place, but you do need
to work at managing yourrelationship be in this place,
but you do need to work atmanaging your relationship.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Why do you think it's not talked about Like?
That's not like sexy to talkabout or like normal to talk
about Like?
Is it because we think thatwe're the only ones?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, I think there's .
Yes, I think that's part of itis like maybe we're worried to
admit it out loud.
You know it's almost like whenyou you can think stuff.
But if you admit it out loud,you know it's almost like when
you you can think stuff.
But if you admit it out loud itfeels like it makes it real,
and I think there's a little bitof that.
I think that there's a really abig fear of divorce in our
culture.
A lot of people actually, youknow, avoid getting, you know,
(15:58):
even commitment because of it.
But I think there's a big fearof divorce.
I think there's a big fear ofdivorce and so even like kind of
going down that road in ourmind or out loud, I think, can
feel really scary.
I think that also there's thissort of lie that we're fed that
it's like parenthood likecompletes you, and I do believe
(16:18):
that, becoming parents, we havethe opportunity to become better
than we ever would be on ourown, because it's a relationship
that challenges us and thatthat can be a really good thing.
But, um, if we have this beliefthat, like, parenthood is
idealized and then we're in itand we're like this is this is a
lot and um also our merit feellike I'd never get to like enjoy
(16:41):
my spouse or my partner anymore.
Um it it feels like there'ssomething wrong with you and
instead of this just being anormal transition for for
relationships, it's so importantto kind of like spell that out
and picture that in culture.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Um, yeah, because it makes it a little bit more okay,
I guess, right to have theseconversations that we're
encouraging people to have.
So I, as I was preparing forthis and even when you first
came to my attention about, likethe launch I just had this
dream of hosting thisconversation on a stage with a
few couples live an audience ofparents in this season, just to
(17:23):
kind of like in person, in realtime, just so saturate them with
, like the truth that you're notalone.
But for today, let's just kindof go through some of the basics
that people might talk about inthis season, like that parents
might be experiencing, and offersome real solutions.
(17:44):
So the first thing that I wantto do, I always like to define
terms that might be new topeople, and so the first is a
word that I love right nowbecause it helps me define the
season, but it's mental load.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So how would you?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
As my literally Wesley's in the background
playing and making noise.
I'm like tell me what mentalmode is.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah.
So I love that you said thatabout definition, because I
think defining these invisibleexperiences gives us the, it
empowers us to do somethingabout them.
So I'm like a big fan ofcreating language for stuff that
we feel and experience.
So, okay, I'm going to, ifyou're okay with it, I want to
give the 30,000 foot definitionand I want to give like the in
(18:32):
the weeds.
Okay, 30,000 foot definition isthe mental load, is the
seemingly never ending runningto do list that um, in in the
home and family life,predominantly women carry in the
home, and it has two keyfeatures it's made up of a lot
of invisible stuff, so kind ofoutside of awareness, and the
(18:53):
invisibility piece also makes ithard to get appreciation and
acknowledgement for all that'sgetting done.
Sort of like things happen butnobody really knows how they.
How is there toilet paper Again, who does this?
It's like, yeah, we're doing it.
The other piece is that it takesup cognitive real estate.
So what this means is that ittakes up space in our brains and
(19:15):
it crowds out energy that wecan put toward other things.
So regulating our emotions,having patience, finding peace
in our life memory.
You know we're always like oh,mom brain, mom brain.
It's like, well, yes, that'sreal, and also so is like your
brain being so full you don'thave the ability to remember as
(19:35):
much.
So it wears us, it depletes us.
The other big thing that I dotalk about in my book that no
one's really talked about whenit comes to mental load is that
it crowds out space and energy,especially for women to find
like a sexy state of mind.
So it impacts our desire in amassive, massive way, which I
think it needs to be a big partof the conversation around the
(19:56):
mental load.
So that's a big definition.
Yeah, the reason why I like togive the in the weeds one is
because what I find in, at leastin my community, is two main
things.
Women have a really hard timeexplaining it to their partners.
It's usually women coming totheir partners to talk about it
for a couple of reasons.
One is like their partner getsdefensive or they're like, yeah,
(20:19):
well, I'm busy too.
So it becomes like I call itthe hardship Olympics, where
it's like well, I'm tired, wellyou're, I'm tired, and then I
worked all day and I did the.
You know.
It's like oh, my gosh, why arewe arguing about this?
Like we both are losing here.
So that's one big piece.
So the conversation gets shutdown and and actually the the
hurt.
So like if a woman is coming toher partner to talk about this
(20:39):
and she's feeling reallyoverwhelmed, she's already like
in not a good place, you know.
She's already feeling maybe alittle unsupported, and then if
it's met with defensiveness oranything like that, it's just
like game over.
I mean, resentment is going tostart to build pretty quickly.
The other reason why it'simportant to give the in-depth
definition is because men don'treally understand it very well.
(21:03):
And I'm not knocking men Likethere's a perspective there too,
but they don't understand itquite as much.
And so when a woman is likeokay, this is what's, I'm
overwhelmed by this, this, thisand this, and she lists like
tasks, it feels kind of silly toher sometimes like, oh, these
should be manageable.
Why am I overwhelmed?
So there's a level ofself-judgment.
(21:23):
And then when she speaks it outloud, a lot of times it's met
with like well, then, just tellme what to do or just make me a
list, and it's it's moreinvolved than that, but people
don't have the language.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Okay, so it's good, this is good, go for it.
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I feel very strongly about this topic.
Okay, so the mental load hasthree domains of tasks.
So if you can imagine a Venndiagram with three circles, so
the first is the physical, andthat's like mowing the lawn,
doing the laundry you actuallyphysically carry the task out.
The second is the mental andthat's like making a list or the
steps involved in a task.
(21:59):
When you're like making thatlist or thinking them out, so
it's like, um, you know, makinga grocery list, thinking about
what you need for dinner.
I mean, dinner is dinner is waymore involved than people
understand, like it's so muchwork I hate, I hate it, I hate
it.
So, um, you know, or it's likework tasks are usually a mental,
so it's like you know, respondto emails and work through my
(22:22):
to-do list, whatever.
The third is so they'reoverlapping, okay.
And then the third is thekicker and that's the emotional
and that's the one that menreally don't get very well and
this is like the thinkingthrough the sort of like cause
and effect analysis on behalf ofyour family members in an
attempt to maximize positiveoutcomes.
(22:42):
So it's like I'm sure, as yourWesley gets older, this is going
to like pick up when you startthinking about schools and you
start thinking about friendships, you start thinking about like
what's going to impact theirlong-term development.
And we're sort of like we evendo it with dinner quite honestly
.
But I'm thinking through theselike sort of high stakes things
and the emotional load is reallyhard to explain because it
(23:06):
requires that you think this way, it's hard to outsource because
it requires a deep knowledge ofthe members of your family and
it goes with you everywhere soyou can work full time and still
be weighing through theemotional stuff.
So this is the last piece ofthis long winded explanation,
but where the three circlesoverlap, I call it the triple
(23:27):
threat, and the majority oftasks in the mental load of the
home and family life are triplethreat tasks.
That means that they requiremental, emotional and physical
demands on us.
So, if you imagine, it's likeeach task is like a tiny
suitcase that unpacks all ofthese steps, and so this is why
(23:48):
it's overwhelming.
This is why it feels like yourwork is never done.
This is why, if your partnerdoesn't understand it, they
don't think through things inthe same way.
They're thinking kind of morelike the physical piece.
That's kind of how they see thetasks.
So it becomes really drainingand very overwhelming, and it
makes it hard for women, I think, to feel like they can take a
(24:09):
break.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So I have a question.
That's kind of playing off ofthat segwaying to the next part.
So I had a friend early on inbringing Wesley home.
She said lovingly I think shewas trying to tell me nicely,
warn me.
Nicely she goes welcome to therest of your life, always
comparing who's sleeping lessand working harder.
And it's amazing to me howquickly this like you were
(24:36):
saying that like resentment canjust kind of like build and
build and build.
It's shocking, yep, and I feellike you don't necessarily
notice like the slow creep, butall of a sudden you're like oh
my gosh, we're like we're inthis resentment kind of like
comparison thing.
I would love to know what are.
You could take this.
Whatever direction you thinkwould be would answer this best.
(24:58):
But I think my question wouldbe what are the ways to
communicate well and worktowards health here?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, so let's just do the whatever you want to call
it.
So it's like tit for tat or Isaid that once and someone's
like that's a really oldsounding phrase.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
No, I say it, I guess I'm really old, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
But.
Or the hardship Olympics, whichis you're competing to have it
harder and, um, I think I'vebeen here because my husband, my
husband, travels every week andand we don't do it anymore.
Um, but we used, we used tovery much get stuck in this
because he would be so drainedfrom traveling and I would be
(25:38):
like, well, who do you think youknow, kept everything going
here, you know, felt sort ofunseen.
So I think, gosh, ourrelationships would just so
benefit from like heapingamounts of grace and
graciousness.
And I think sometimes westruggle with that when we're
really drained and we're tiredand we're not feeling like we're
(25:59):
being seen and appreciated.
And so I think my advice forthat tit for tat or the hardship
Olympics is twofold.
So the one, the first piece, iskind of like to shift your
thinking.
And the thinking shift is likeit doesn't cost me anything to
acknowledge my partner'sdifficulties, Like we have to
remember that, like it doesn'ttake anything away from my
(26:22):
difficulty if I say what you didwas difficult.
And I think that we, for somereason, we really do, if we're
not thinking that consciously,we really do have that
subconscious sort of thing oflike if I give them the little
inch, then they're going to gettheir head's going to get big,
or they're going to be like,yeah, they're going to lean into
it and rub it in, or likewhatever you think it's going to
(26:42):
like unravel, we're going tolose power.
There's a lot of power dynamicsin relationships that would
sneak up on us, but so the firstis remembering that to give a
little bit to your partner takesnothing away from you.
It doesn't devalue yourexperience.
I think the other thing is thata lot of times when we enter
into that interaction, I call itus having parallel needs, so
(27:06):
it's like we both have the sameneed and they're just running
alongside each other andsomebody's got to jump over and
meet the need first, and alsoit's just annoying.
I do want to acknowledge likeit's super annoying when this
happens.
It's annoying when, like, youexpress something like this and
it's like, all of a sudden, yourpartner at that very moment
needs to have this need to andyou're like, well, great timing.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It is really annoying .
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I don't want to ever brush over the fact that it's
very frustrating, but thereality is, if you want to have
an enjoyable experience in yourrelationship, if you want to get
more from your relationship,sometimes you have to give a
little bit more.
And so you got to cross over tomeet that parallel need.
So if it's like for now, fromnow on, my husband, I have like
completely shifted this.
So if he comes home he's likeI'm so exhausted, I'll just say
(27:53):
you gotta be like, you gotta betired.
What you did was exhausting,Like I, I get it, man.
And then later, if I say I'm soexhausted from you being gone,
he'll be like yeah, you must belike.
We just both feed each otherand it doesn't cost either
anything.
And then and the more we resistdoing that the sort of like,
(28:14):
harder our partners will oftendig their heels in and be less
likely to give.
So step, step over, meet theparallel need and see if things
soften, so then you can also getwhat you need.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Are there any tools that could help a mom that's
overwhelming with or that'soverwhelmed with mental load
Like?
Do you have any like day in andday out tools?
Maybe that just came to mind.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
So I am like a um, I'm a little I give very
practical tools in both of mybooks, Um, but I'm also like a
big picture thinker.
So that's kind of where I'mgoing to come from with this one
, but my first.
I feel like my books complimenteach other really well because
the first one is for moms andit's really about how do you
manage your relationship withyourself.
(29:02):
So, like historically, womenkind of are really bad about
speaking up for what they need.
We're pretty bad about actuallyeven knowing what we need and
then, especially after become amom, you sort of have to put
yourself on the back burner justto keep your kid alive, but we
get stuck there and so then weget really disconnected from
ourselves and what we need.
(29:22):
And so I think like one of thebiggest pieces for women when it
comes to the mental load islearning how to sort of like
reconnect with yourself so youcan step into your power and
agency in your relationship.
So it took like in my own life,it took me a long time to even
feel like I had a right to askfor more participation from my
(29:44):
husband, and I think that'spretty common and so, um, that
that is, I think, one of themost important pieces.
So in my first book I talk about, um, how moms need to really do
a good job of regularly almostdoing like a self check-in, or
you can think of it like a selfscan.
So because we move through ourworld really thinking others,
(30:07):
other, how can I meet your needs, how can I anticipate your
needs?
But like we become kind ofinvisible even to ourselves.
So it's how do you do a quickself check-in?
I give a five-step frameworkfor doing that.
But if you just think aboutthis it's not too tricky to
understand, which is like, takea minute, how am I doing
emotionally?
How's my energy mentally?
Where can I turn the dials alittle bit to make a difference?
(30:29):
How can I define what's going onwith me, Check in with myself,
acknowledge myself and thendecide how I want to move
forward?
So it's back to what you saidearly on, like that definition
that empowers you to make achange.
So in the book I give thedefinition for exactly how you
do that check-in.
But even if moms don't read thebook and you just practice,
like every day, multiple times aday, when you go to the
bathroom and you change yourdiaper, like how am I doing?
(30:51):
What's going on with me?
What do I need?
And start to develop back thatrelationship with ourselves.
It goes a long way.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Such important conversation.
Well, you know, I really wasthinking a lot about this
conversation again because ofthe season that we're in and
just hearing so many of ourfriends' conversations playing
through my mind.
But I was thinking about thingslike postpartum seasons for
moms, or even going to a babyshower.
There is almost I'm speakingvery generally here but no
(31:22):
conversation that has aboutmarriage, like here's dinner for
your family so you don't haveto cook, not, hey, how are you
guys doing?
Or like getting ready for ababy shower.
There's so much focus onpositivity and celebration but
very little prep about that, andthat's a whole different
conversation.
I didn't feel prepped well forpostpartum in general, even just
(31:43):
healing wise, like the medicalside of it for me.
I was like nobody told me aboutthat, right, yeah, so I really
I think this might be the mostimportant part of the
conversation, potentially,depending on where people are at
.
How can we be the people thatlead the charge on this and our
own friends and in our familiesto better support the marriages
(32:06):
of those around us?
Like what, maybe questions,could we be asking what
approaches to support them?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Well, Hmm, that's a big question.
So I I mean, I think um lettingthe people around you know
we're like, you know, goingthrough these moments, that you
understand it.
I think sometimes just tellingour stories uh allows us to step
into these conversations in away that people know that
(32:34):
they're safe to also sharetheirs and um, you know there's
there's conversations that exist.
I mean I I spent a lot of timeat playgrounds with my kids were
really little talking aboutthere's a lot of conversations
that exist that become sort oflike complaining about our
relationship, and sometimes wemight need a little bit of that,
but it's dangerous.
It's a little dangerous to gothere too much but to to really
(32:58):
be a place where it's like youcan speak to me about your
relationship and I will hear youand I will um not judge it and
I will let you know that this isnormal and I will support, I
will be pro relationship, um,pro both partners.
I think it's important to havepeople like that in our lives
and so when we tell our story,it helps, helps to do that.
(33:19):
I mean, I think more on abigger scale, I know in my own
work it's like it's like my book, it's like talking about these
things as much as I can.
It's trying to offer um.
You know my own story.
I guess I'm doing it on abigger scale.
I I spoke um on last week at amarriage conference in front of
like over 5,000 people and itwas told them about the time my
(33:41):
husband said he wasn't happywith her sex life and it's like
I don't mind if my story willhelp to normalize something
painful in your relationship.
So it opens up avenues for youto have conversation that is
productive and moving you towardgreater connection and healing,
and I'm happy to share thatwith you.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So I think more of that a little bit more
vulnerability.
So I'm thinking like that couldpotentially look like someone
saying like, hey, when webrought so-and-so home for the
first time, like our kid homefor the first time, our marriage
really took a hit.
Like if that happens to youguys, don't be surprised.
Or like here's what helped us.
Like I've kind of made a vow tomyself to be the one that
writes the downer baby showernote.
(34:18):
Like courage to all my friends.
Like here are the things toexpect that no one told me to
expect you know, including someof those things in there.
I mean, there's a way to frameit Like you said, like not a way
doom and gloom, but just eyeswide open.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Yeah, and I mean, you're no-transcript.
(35:08):
How it is now is how it willalways be, and so, um, I want
parents out there to have hopethat it's like it's.
Even the research shows thedrop in satisfaction is
temporary.
The trick is navigating thistime without creating a
permanent resentment or rift inyour relationship that you can't
get out of.
It's navigating this earlyseason while really being soft
(35:32):
to one another and caring foryour relationship, and that
becomes sort of like themarching orders for this early
season with kids.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Another thing that's been hugely helpful to me is to
be together as family units withother families in the same
season, so we can hear theirconversations, they could hear
ours, and it's like, oh my gosh,like we have each other's backs
, we're going through similarexperiences and, man, it's so
good, it's so important, it'simportant to make space for it
is.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It's really good, it is.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
What else in the book .
You could take this anydirection.
Are you excited for people toexperience?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Oh gosh.
So okay, a few things.
There are a couple of books onthe mental load that already
exists.
There's one in particularthat's really, really a popular
book, very popular.
It's just genius solution toactually how you like delegate
responsibility.
(36:32):
So, like the practical,logistical side, like how do I
hand off some of what I'm doingto my partner it is absolutely
genius.
The the.
Where I'm wanting to add to theconversation and what I'm
excited about with this book isthat some people have a hard
time even having thatconversation because their
partner is so defensive orbecause the the one partner
(36:53):
feels so resentful already thatit's like you can't have the
conversation without it justspiraling into this argument,
and so I think even equippingcouples to tackle this
conversation together is veryimportant, and that's a big
piece of what my book does.
It will help your relationshipin general.
Um, it's it's very meaty interms of, like the content and
the practical tools, so that'sone piece.
(37:16):
Um, I haven't seen a book thatactually helped couples really
talk about it.
And the other thing is like themental load changes literally
every day and definitelydepending on what's going on in
your life.
So around the holidays, ourmental load is exponentially
bigger, or like December.
November is like all ourfamily's birthdays plus the
(37:37):
holidays, and it's like I feellike I'm like losing my my mind,
and so, because the mental loadalways changes, we have to be
able to talk about it regularly.
Can you imagine?
Every time you bring it up it'sa fight.
What happens is women stuff it,they get resentful and they
can't.
They don't feel like theirpartner's safe, and when you
don't feel like you're safe withyour partner to come to them,
(37:57):
it starts to deteriorateeverything in the relationship.
So it really equips couples inthat way, which I'm excited
about.
The other piece is that if youconsume any amount of content on
this topic on social ormainstream media, it's pretty
negative toward men, it's pretty.
I find it condescendingactually, and it really I
(38:17):
haven't leaned into this yet inmy own content, but I will and,
um, I think it's, I think we're,it's a we're missing the mark.
We're missing the mark becausecriticism isn't a good starting
place for change, and so my bookis different because it takes
the position that it is you andyour partner versus the world.
Modern family life isabsolutely bananas what we're
(38:41):
expected to accomplish and to doand the standards we're
supposed to uphold and thedistraction of our devices is
like a whole nother piece, thatwe have very high standards for
our parenting.
All of these things should bewhat we view as the enemy and
each other are.
We are on the same team versusthis shared enemy.
And so it takes thatperspective which I've not seen
(39:03):
anywhere and I think also willmake it a lot more palatable for
men to read the book.
They're not going to feel likeI'm being condescending, it's
like no, I get it.
There's perspective here.
And then third piece is the sexpiece.
Nobody's you know it's we haveto talk about.
The mental load affects theentire relationship and it's
going to affect your sex life.
And when that starts to go it,it creates, um, oftentimes
(39:28):
standoffs in the relationship orvulnerabilities, and so we have
to talk about how these thingsall work together and give
couples a plan to kind of move,move out of it.
And so I'm pumped about my book.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I am too.
I get a lot of um, I love it.
I love what I do.
I love hosting theseconversations and inviting
people into them.
Um, this was the first.
I mean I've.
I've seen a lot of books thisyear.
There's none like this one, andI think it's an important time
and stuff.
It sounds like I'm choked up.
I'm just it's an important timein culture to launch it too.
(40:06):
I think, um, maybe just causeI'm hyper aware of it because of
our season, but, um, it'sreally good yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I see your son yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Well.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I think you're right.
There's certain like there'sjust certain times where there's
a buzz around something, and itis.
There's a buzz around, I think,motherhood and women and what
we experience in that domain oflife.
There's a buzz around themental load, and so yeah, I mean
I'm, I'm hopeful that you knowit's.
Anytime you launch a book, it'sreally interesting process but
(40:37):
you just sort of like hope andpray that it gets in front of
the right people, especiallywhen you like have such belief
in the message and how it willimpact lives.
And so yeah, that's, I'm justhoping that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well, I'm excited for you.
You know there's.
Have you read the book A mom isborn?
Have you heard of that one?
No, I don't think I've readthat one.
It's the most honest, um, uhbook like that propels you into
postpartum that I read.
So I was given a lot of booksand I felt like it was the most
honest, and so I feel likepeople could give a copy of that
book and a copy of yours.
(41:12):
Yes, that would be the bestbundle.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Yes, and my first one too, because I think, like the
first one I said, that that oneis a real personal one.
It's it gives moms a five-stepplan to really care for
themselves well, and I'm nottalking about pedicures and
bubble baths, and I take everytool that I offer and I apply it
to how it, how it relates toyour relationship with your kids
, and then also how you how itrelates to your relationship
(41:38):
with your kids, and then alsohow you can translate that to
your relationship with yourself.
So the short summary is like itteaches moms how to mother
themselves, like they mothertheir kids, and it's important
we know how to do that, andespecially in that early phase.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I love a good bundle.
I love a bundle too.
Check out that other bookyou're talking about Basket man,
that's my language.
Well, we are going to attach alink to the book on our show
notes and so wherever people arelistening, you could head on
over and get a copy of the book.
Wherever books are sold, yes.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah, and hopefully it's okay to say this, but I'm
not sure when this releases.
But pre-orders are like areally big deal to authors and I
just realized this and I doublechecked my information.
But when you pre-order on likeAmazon, I don't know everywhere
else but you don't even getcharged until right before the
book ships.
So it's like there's no realimpediment to pre-ordering, but
(42:39):
it really, really supports thework of the author.
And I also have and I can giveyou the link for this, but I
have leak thank you gifts.
So if you pre-order, you getthe first two chapters on audio
right away.
I created a guide for peoplewho have, like you or your
partner, adhd and the mentalload, because that brings up a
whole different slew of issues,so to help couples who have ADHD
(43:01):
as part of their relationship,and then some like printables to
help with dinner and packingand things like that that are
just annoying, take up space.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Wow, yeah, I've learned so much about the
pre-order process, and so I'm ahuge supporter of well wanting
to encourage our community inthat direction too, so we will
get this launched in advance ofthe launch.
Thank you With that in mind, ofcourse.
Well, we end each of ourconversations with the same
three questions, and I'd love tohear your answers as well.
(43:34):
The first one is something thatyou've eaten recently and loved
.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
I have like a lot of food sensitivities, so this is
like not exciting and this issuper weird, but I eat a lot of
beef and I've been putting honeyon it and it's actually really
delicious and I'm sure no oneout there will want to try it,
but it's actually really reallygood and so yeah, I know, are
(44:03):
you a hot honey person?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I've never done that.
I mean I put it in tea.
No, no, no, okay, so not Ishould.
Okay, oh, tell me so, likeMike's hot honey, it has to be
Mike's.
Oh spicy, but it's not.
I don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
It's not spicy like burn your tongue, but it has.
You have to have it.
I'll get it.
I'll get some.
Yeah, I like a little kick,like a kick.
Yeah, yeah, it's sweet.
That sounds awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
So you're saying you put it on beef.
I put Mike's Hot Honey oneverything.
I put it on my burgers.
I put it on.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Okay, you do too.
It's good.
A sweetness to beef isdelicious.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
And on my pizza Mike's hot honey.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
What about on cheese?
Do you ever put on cheese?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I know people do, so I'm very sensitive.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
So I don't know, oh okay, well, I get it I know what
was I just going to say, though?
Speaker 1 (44:55):
that I put it on Pizza beef and whatever.
I put it on everything, but itcan't be.
It can't be the Trader Joe'sone, it can't.
Nothing has to be Mike's.
Okay, you got it, I'm in.
Oh yeah, I'm with you, and thenI don't know where you get your
beef.
Do you do good ranchers at all?
Speaker 3 (45:12):
I haven't done good.
Ranchers, I order.
Right now I've been orderingfrom primal pastures.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh, nice, great, yeah , had theirs.
Um, good, ranchers are friendsof ours and their ground beef,
specifically, is my favoriteground beef.
Yeah, I'll check it out.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
How about something you found to be beautiful lately
?
Speaker 3 (45:31):
So I just had to um drive very far to drop my kid's
friends off somewhere, um, andas we're driving, so it's pretty
warm, it's like in the 60s forus right now, but then when you
drive you can see the mountainsand they're covered in snow.
So it's like the sun and thepalm trees and then the snowy
mountains, and I think that isjust like one of the most
(45:53):
beautiful parts of uh,california life, which is that,
like all, of the landscape is sostunning.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I could do snow if I had palm trees.
Yeah, Last but not least,something you've discovered
lately that you think everyoneshould know about a Netflix show
Amazon purchase.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
I gosh, I okay, there's this facial oil that
it's not recent.
I've used it for a long timebut I'm obsessed with it.
Um, and it's not even veryexpensive and it's all handmade
and hand batch.
So I try to use really cleanstuff.
But it's this brand called Keat.
It's Q E, t and um, I lovetheir cleansing oil and then
(46:35):
their daily hydrating oil.
It's insane.
It's so, so, so, so good.
And then the other thing is isI recently got this um ice
roller, but it's by the skinnyconfidential.
That's travel.
So it's like a cube and it hastwo lids, so like on either side
it kind of pulls apart andthere's two different rollers,
so one's like flat and then onehas a groove, so it like gets in
(46:56):
your jawline and it's sodelightful.
Honestly, you can put it inyour freezer, your fridge, and
it's just.
I'm pretty obsessed with it.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I'll attach both of those.
I got one of those like thoselike red light face sculptor,
you know things the wand or themask, the wand Ooh, I don't have
one of those.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
And I got one of the dupe ones, you know it the wand
or the mask.
The wand Ooh, I don't have oneof those.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And I got one of the dupe ones.
You know it's not like the mainone that everyone's talking
about and maybe this isn't goodfor him.
But Wesley knows when I'm likedoing it every morning and he
wants me to put some on like hisface.
So I'm sculpting my jawline andhis.
So cute.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
So cute, no harm in that?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Well, where do you want to send people to learn
more?
Speaker 3 (47:43):
You can find me on Instagram, which is just Dr
Morgan Cutlip.
It's a D-R Morgan Cutlip.
Cutlip is injury to the lip,that's how you spell it.
That's also my website, whichis drmorgancutlipcom.
And then my book is called um abetter share how couples can
tackle the mental load for morefun, less resentment and great
sex.
And it's anywhere you buy books.
So Amazon, barnes and NobleChristian books it's there too.
(48:06):
Um, I think Amazon right nowmight be the best price, but,
yeah, anywhere you get books.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Oh, exciting, so so good.
Well, guys, I hope that throughthis conversation you feel um
seen.
And, guys, I hope that throughthis conversation you feel seen
and empowered maybe I don't knowif that's the word I'm looking
for but to kind of take chargeof this conversation in your own
homes and in your ownfriendships and relationships,
because, my goodness, I feellike it could save a lot of
(48:33):
marriages potentially andstrengthen a lot of
relationships.
So we are so grateful that youguys tuned in this week.
Be sure to share it and leave areview wherever you're
listening, and we will see younext week.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Making Room.
I am so excited that you'rehere.
This conversation, man, oh man.
We've had some marriageconversations on the show, but
none quite like this one.
You probably roll your eyesevery time I bring up a Wesley
story.
You guys know that I am in thethick of postpartum and recently
Colby and I are realizing, themore we talk to friends in
(00:22):
seasons like ours, the samenarrative comes up that there is
a strain in a relationship thatkind of surprises us or
surprises our friends in ourlife, kind of like nobody talks
about it.
It's one of those things goinginto parenthood that people
don't talk about as freely and Iwish they did, which is why
we're making room for thatconversation today with our new
(00:43):
friend, morgan Cutlip.
If you guys followed us on, ifyou follow us on socials,
actually, you'll know that Colbyand I actually just launched a
parents night out to worktowards this very thing
supporting marriages withparents that have young kids,
and so this is all coincidental.
I didn't plan it to line uplike this, but it is a really
sweet time because of ourheartbeat in the season,
(01:05):
something that I hope encouragesyou to.
Well, here is a little bit moreabout our new friend, dr Morgan
Cutlip.
She is an author andrelationship expert.
With her down-to-earth style,she equips couples and
individuals to tackle thetrickiest relationship issues,
offering fresh perspectives andempowering frameworks.
She's experienced and trainedin translating psychological
(01:28):
theory and research intopractical, accessible and
actionable advice so helpfulwhich she shares with her
clients and social mediafollowers through her books,
courses, podcast and her blog.
As co-founder ofmylovethinkscom, dr Morgan
earned her master's in humandevelopment and family science
and her doctorate in counselingpsychology.
(01:48):
She is the author of Love yourKids Without Losing Yourself.
We all need a copy of that oneand a mother of two incredible
kids, wife to her high schoolsweetheart and lifelong lover of
all things relationship.
Her latest book that we aregoing to be talking about today,
a Better Share, will beavailable nationwide April 8th
2025.
(02:08):
Well, guys, talking about beingin the thick of it and mental
load, hello, mealtime, it'salways time to eat again.
How is that possible?
It seems like it never ends.
And just when you plan, it'stime to plan again.
Well, our friends at Feast andFettle want to come alongside
you and make that part of yourlife, your parenting and your
relationship easier, whether youare gluten-free or need to be
(02:31):
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They want to come alongside youwith private chef-like meals
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Head on over tofeastandfeddlecom F-E-T-T-L-Ecom
and use code gather G-A-T-H-E-Rwith the numbers two, five for
(02:56):
$25 off your first week.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Hi, I'm Katie, a hospitality educator and the
host of Making Room by Gatherpodcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness andwith it I was given a choice to
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it.
(03:25):
And for me that meant twothings that I needed the healing
to learn how to accept aninvitation and the confidence to
know how to extend one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through making room by gather,you will hear conversations from
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
(03:47):
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
the table, but can I tell yousomething?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Oh man, oh my look at us what a nice intro I love it,
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
That was one of those.
I don't even think I've told mylisteners this.
We had a different intro forlike two years and I was in the
shower one day and I just hadthis like inspiration and that
was born like inspiration andthat was born.
(04:24):
That's how that happened.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I love it.
It's so true, though, like theconfidence to extend an
invitation is a real thing, so Iloved it.
Well done.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Well, I'm actually glad I'mdoing a batch record right now,
talking to a lot of amazingguests, and this is my last of
the day, and I was thinking if Istarted my day with this one, I
probably would have been teary.
I woke up a little sleepdeprived and this is such a
important conversation and soyou're just going to get I'm two
cups of coffee in so I havemore clarity a little less
(05:00):
emotional.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
No matter how you show up, we're going to have a
good conversation.
Let's do it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Well, let's kick off.
I love starting with abackstory or some history.
I think it's really importantjust in getting to know you.
I studied social work.
That's my major.
I'm a sociology geek, apsychology nerd.
I love it all In your bio.
I love that you say that youtake kind of like high level
theory and break it down.
(05:29):
But I'm a girl where I'm likeno, no, no, give me like the,
give me in raw form, because Ijust geek out, I geek it, I love
all of it, but I want to hearmore about your background.
So what could take this,whatever direction you think is
most relevant?
What led you to either thisbook?
What led you to studypsychology?
(05:50):
Where do you want to take it?
I mean, I'll take it everywhere.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
So so my interest in psychology started way back when
I was in like around secondgrade actually.
So my dad went back to schoolto get his doctorate in
psychology when I was growing upand I used to go to class with
him sometimes and so I packedlike a little toy briefcase
(06:15):
filled with candy and paper andI would sit there and I would
take notes and I just it waslike such a special time with my
dad.
So it was a pretty long driveto campus and we would play this
game.
And we played this for many,many years where he would give
me a hypothetical counselingcase.
So maybe it was a couple, maybeit was a family, maybe it was a
(06:36):
little kid, and he would saywhat are you going to do?
How are you going to help them?
What do you think's going on?
What do you think's going onwith the little boy in the
family?
And we would analyze it.
And it became just like this Iwas like obsessed with this game
.
So every time we get in the carI'd be like give me another
case, let me talk it through.
So I feel like I just grew upwith this deep love for this
(06:58):
work, the enjoyment of kind oflike, analyzing it and picking
it apart.
And then my dad ended up a fewyears or many years, I guess,
into his private practice,starting to develop relationship
education courses.
So way before like every singleperson online had a course.
He was like teaching courseslive and at conferences, and so
(07:19):
I started traveling with him,sometimes I'd speak with him, I
went to conferences with himmarriage conferences from a
pretty young age too, and so itjust kind of grew up in the work
and I knew I wanted to workalongside him and we did for
about 15 years and I'll neverforget I think I was in maybe
(07:39):
like end of high school, earlycollege, and we were driving
home from one of the speakingengagements and I said, you know
, I don't know what this lookslike for me yet, but someday I
really want to support women.
It's like that's going to be mything, like you got yours, this
is going to be mine.
And um, it really wasn't untilI became a mom that I was like,
(08:02):
oh, here it is and this is whatI want to do, because I went
into motherhood with very highexpectations of myself and, um,
a complete like, just like naive, naivete I can never say that
word properly.
I don't like to sound likenaivete.
It sounds ridiculous.
But like I was naive going intomotherhood thinking you know,
(08:26):
whatever, I'll work rightalongside my baby, I'll do the.
You know, it's going to besimple, she's going to be easy.
Like this whole idea of likeeven what my kid would be like.
I had all of these sort ofnotions going into motherhood
about what it would feel like tobe a mom, what it looked like
as a mom, how my kid would be,and they were just completely
shattered.
I was totally buried bymotherhood.
I felt completely, um,incapable and lost and in this
(08:51):
fog and home I felt like ahomesick feeling.
I just felt so overwhelmed andI was like, okay, if I went into
this with all this background,all this education, all this
knowledge, and this is how I'mfeeling.
Moms most moms have to feelsome sort of like piece of this
too, and so that's my.
(09:11):
My first book really has myheart in it.
It's it's it's a reallyimportant book to me and I share
a lot of my story and give areally practical framework for
moms the other piece of it.
So this is a longer intro thanyou said I love it.
The other piece of it was thatour marriage took a hit, so like
(09:33):
I.
So it's like I took a hit as anindividual.
I realized that I had to makechanges in how I showed up, in
my life and in my relationshipif I was going to actually enjoy
motherhood.
Otherwise, I was going to notresent my kids, but sort of like
resent what it has done to mylife, if that makes sense.
I love being a mom, but it justshakes things up so
(09:55):
dramatically.
But then also my husband took ajob change.
We were living in Florida at thetime and when our daughter her
name is Effie when she was twomonths old, he moved to
California and I stayed behinduntil she was 10 months.
So I did all that new stuffkind of on my own and um didn't
involve him very much cause hewas gone a lot, but also I was
(10:17):
sort of like gatekeeping and um,he didn't jump in.
Well, he was kind of like Idon't know, you know, you do, I
don't know what I'm doing.
And I was like I don't knowwhat I'm doing, like why are you
?
And so I I felt reallyirritated and resentful and
frustrated and also the amountof responsibilities that pile on
the immediately after kid isborn is just mind-blowing, and
(10:39):
so I was just buried by thechanges motherhood brought, and
I was really frustrated andoverwhelmed by the changes that
happened in my relationship andalso the amount of
responsibility.
So that's really.
Book two is about that piece ofit, which is the mental load
and how it impacts yourrelationship.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I am so grateful that you're having this conversation
.
I think that a lot of theseconversations could happen just
from textbook or study.
I'm not grateful for it, butgrateful you know what I mean
that you're using your story askind of like a launching pad for
it.
I think it's important becauseyou know the heart of the person
that we're talking to today.
But the timing of thisconversation is crazy.
(11:24):
Wesley is a year and a half andlove him.
Love him to pieces.
He's like, he's the best, he'severything that I could have
dreamed of and more.
I'm one of three girls and asingle mom, so we I came from
all like girl energy, so thisboy thing is new to me, but we
we love him.
But the relationship side,colby and I lived
(11:47):
internationally together, whichmeans that we had an
international move both ways,lived there for just about four
years, adjusted to a new culture, started a small business.
Whenever you go through thatchecklist of life stressors, we
hit basically everyone and thatwas like the start of our
marriage.
We realized nobody says ornobody kind of prepares you for
(12:09):
the way that marriage or thatparenting can strain a
relationship.
And so recently we've been like, oh my gosh, what in the world
is happening and thankfully wehave great communication.
But we've talked to some of ourother friends and the same
narrative comes up.
They're going through the samething and they feel like there
must be just something wrongwith them or their relationship.
(12:30):
It's an isolating thing.
People feel totally alone orlike they lack the skill
whatever.
There's a lot of like blaming,right of spouse or self.
So I want to hear from you justto kind of like validate or
affirm I don't know peoplelistening how common is it for
parents of young kids toexperience strain in their
(12:53):
relationship and why?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
It's the norm, so that people need to know that
there's tons and tons I don'tremember the last time it was
studied because they just keptfinding the same findings which
is that after kids, um, maritalsatisfaction declines.
And you shouldn't know, like II I never really want to put
energy or information out in theworld.
That is like a hope slasher.
(13:16):
So you should know that that isa temporary shift.
Um, there's other things thatactually do change in a positive
direction, like sort of like um, finding meaning in life
actually increases after kidsand those types of things.
But, yeah, your relationshipsatisfaction dips for a bit, and
so I feel like it's reallyimportant that we are now just
there's a, there's a fundamentalshift in the relationship where
(13:47):
we're now having to uh,entertain and take care of
somebody else's needs, andbabies are just like a ball of
meat.
So it takes a lot of our energyand a lot of our focus, and so,
um, it's really important toremember that.
I think, in general, um, like agood rule of relationships to
keep in mind is that life thatis like absolutely no fault of
(14:10):
anyone else.
The good stuff, like you listeda bunch moves starting a
business, renovating a home,having a baby, you know, an
illness, like all of these partsof life that are not
necessarily anyone's fault.
They naturally just pull ourrelationships apart.
They naturally drive a wedge andsort of imbalance or or like
sort of like deflate theconnections in our relationship.
(14:33):
And so, um, we, we need to likehave a movement that normalizes
that so we don't feel so ashamedand also so that we can talk
about it with people who aresupportive of our relationships.
And it also means that weactually have to be intentional
about taking care of ourrelationship, because the danger
isn't that we sort of end up inthis sort of disconnected place
(14:53):
.
The danger is, if we justpermanently stay there which is
what happens to couples afterkids who sort of become kind of
like, you know, out of balancein the relationship, and then
you know, 20 years later, thekids leave the house, or 18
years later or something, andthey're like, oh, we just grew
apart and it's like, well, youknow, yeah, because you know you
(15:15):
got in this busy season but youdidn't work to come back
together and so it's okay to bein this place, but you do need
to work at managing yourrelationship be in this place,
but you do need to work atmanaging your relationship.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Why do you think it's not talked about Like?
That's not like sexy to talkabout or like normal to talk
about Like?
Is it because we think thatwe're the only ones?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, I think there's .
Yes, I think that's part of itis like maybe we're worried to
admit it out loud.
You know it's almost like whenyou you can think stuff.
But if you admit it out loud,you know it's almost like when
you you can think stuff.
But if you admit it out loud itfeels like it makes it real,
and I think there's a little bitof that.
I think that there's a really abig fear of divorce in our
culture.
A lot of people actually, youknow, avoid getting, you know,
(15:58):
even commitment because of it.
But I think there's a big fearof divorce.
I think there's a big fear ofdivorce and so even like kind of
going down that road in ourmind or out loud, I think, can
feel really scary.
I think that also there's thissort of lie that we're fed that
it's like parenthood likecompletes you, and I do believe
(16:18):
that, becoming parents, we havethe opportunity to become better
than we ever would be on ourown, because it's a relationship
that challenges us and thatthat can be a really good thing.
But, um, if we have this beliefthat, like, parenthood is
idealized and then we're in itand we're like this is this is a
lot and um also our merit feellike I'd never get to like enjoy
(16:41):
my spouse or my partner anymore.
Um it it feels like there'ssomething wrong with you and
instead of this just being anormal transition for for
relationships, it's so importantto kind of like spell that out
and picture that in culture.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Um, yeah, because it makes it a little bit more okay,
I guess, right to have theseconversations that we're
encouraging people to have.
So I, as I was preparing forthis and even when you first
came to my attention about, likethe launch I just had this
dream of hosting thisconversation on a stage with a
few couples live an audience ofparents in this season, just to
(17:23):
kind of like in person, in realtime, just so saturate them with
, like the truth that you're notalone.
But for today, let's just kindof go through some of the basics
that people might talk about inthis season, like that parents
might be experiencing, and offersome real solutions.
(17:44):
So the first thing that I wantto do, I always like to define
terms that might be new topeople, and so the first is a
word that I love right nowbecause it helps me define the
season, but it's mental load.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So how would you?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
As my literally Wesley's in the background
playing and making noise.
I'm like tell me what mentalmode is.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah.
So I love that you said thatabout definition, because I
think defining these invisibleexperiences gives us the, it
empowers us to do somethingabout them.
So I'm like a big fan ofcreating language for stuff that
we feel and experience.
So, okay, I'm going to, ifyou're okay with it, I want to
give the 30,000 foot definitionand I want to give like the in
(18:32):
the weeds.
Okay, 30,000 foot definition isthe mental load, is the
seemingly never ending runningto do list that um, in in the
home and family life,predominantly women carry in the
home, and it has two keyfeatures it's made up of a lot
of invisible stuff, so kind ofoutside of awareness, and the
(18:53):
invisibility piece also makes ithard to get appreciation and
acknowledgement for all that'sgetting done.
Sort of like things happen butnobody really knows how they.
How is there toilet paper Again, who does this?
It's like, yeah, we're doing it.
The other piece is that it takesup cognitive real estate.
So what this means is that ittakes up space in our brains and
(19:15):
it crowds out energy that wecan put toward other things.
So regulating our emotions,having patience, finding peace
in our life memory.
You know we're always like oh,mom brain, mom brain.
It's like, well, yes, that'sreal, and also so is like your
brain being so full you don'thave the ability to remember as
(19:35):
much.
So it wears us, it depletes us.
The other big thing that I dotalk about in my book that no
one's really talked about whenit comes to mental load is that
it crowds out space and energy,especially for women to find
like a sexy state of mind.
So it impacts our desire in amassive, massive way, which I
think it needs to be a big partof the conversation around the
(19:56):
mental load.
So that's a big definition.
Yeah, the reason why I like togive the in the weeds one is
because what I find in, at leastin my community, is two main
things.
Women have a really hard timeexplaining it to their partners.
It's usually women coming totheir partners to talk about it
for a couple of reasons.
One is like their partner getsdefensive or they're like, yeah,
(20:19):
well, I'm busy too.
So it becomes like I call itthe hardship Olympics, where
it's like well, I'm tired, wellyou're, I'm tired, and then I
worked all day and I did the.
You know.
It's like oh, my gosh, why arewe arguing about this?
Like we both are losing here.
So that's one big piece.
So the conversation gets shutdown and and actually the the
hurt.
So like if a woman is coming toher partner to talk about this
(20:39):
and she's feeling reallyoverwhelmed, she's already like
in not a good place, you know.
She's already feeling maybe alittle unsupported, and then if
it's met with defensiveness oranything like that, it's just
like game over.
I mean, resentment is going tostart to build pretty quickly.
The other reason why it'simportant to give the in-depth
definition is because men don'treally understand it very well.
(21:03):
And I'm not knocking men Likethere's a perspective there too,
but they don't understand itquite as much.
And so when a woman is likeokay, this is what's, I'm
overwhelmed by this, this, thisand this, and she lists like
tasks, it feels kind of silly toher sometimes like, oh, these
should be manageable.
Why am I overwhelmed?
So there's a level ofself-judgment.
(21:23):
And then when she speaks it outloud, a lot of times it's met
with like well, then, just tellme what to do or just make me a
list, and it's it's moreinvolved than that, but people
don't have the language.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Okay, so it's good, this is good, go for it.
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I feel very strongly about this topic.
Okay, so the mental load hasthree domains of tasks.
So if you can imagine a Venndiagram with three circles, so
the first is the physical, andthat's like mowing the lawn,
doing the laundry you actuallyphysically carry the task out.
The second is the mental andthat's like making a list or the
steps involved in a task.
(21:59):
When you're like making thatlist or thinking them out, so
it's like, um, you know, makinga grocery list, thinking about
what you need for dinner.
I mean, dinner is dinner is waymore involved than people
understand, like it's so muchwork I hate, I hate it, I hate
it.
So, um, you know, or it's likework tasks are usually a mental,
so it's like you know, respondto emails and work through my
(22:22):
to-do list, whatever.
The third is so they'reoverlapping, okay.
And then the third is thekicker and that's the emotional
and that's the one that menreally don't get very well and
this is like the thinkingthrough the sort of like cause
and effect analysis on behalf ofyour family members in an
attempt to maximize positiveoutcomes.
(22:42):
So it's like I'm sure, as yourWesley gets older, this is going
to like pick up when you startthinking about schools and you
start thinking about friendships, you start thinking about like
what's going to impact theirlong-term development.
And we're sort of like we evendo it with dinner quite honestly
.
But I'm thinking through theselike sort of high stakes things
and the emotional load is reallyhard to explain because it
(23:06):
requires that you think this way, it's hard to outsource because
it requires a deep knowledge ofthe members of your family and
it goes with you everywhere soyou can work full time and still
be weighing through theemotional stuff.
So this is the last piece ofthis long winded explanation,
but where the three circlesoverlap, I call it the triple
(23:27):
threat, and the majority oftasks in the mental load of the
home and family life are triplethreat tasks.
That means that they requiremental, emotional and physical
demands on us.
So, if you imagine, it's likeeach task is like a tiny
suitcase that unpacks all ofthese steps, and so this is why
(23:48):
it's overwhelming.
This is why it feels like yourwork is never done.
This is why, if your partnerdoesn't understand it, they
don't think through things inthe same way.
They're thinking kind of morelike the physical piece.
That's kind of how they see thetasks.
So it becomes really drainingand very overwhelming, and it
makes it hard for women, I think, to feel like they can take a
(24:09):
break.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So I have a question.
That's kind of playing off ofthat segwaying to the next part.
So I had a friend early on inbringing Wesley home.
She said lovingly I think shewas trying to tell me nicely,
warn me.
Nicely she goes welcome to therest of your life, always
comparing who's sleeping lessand working harder.
And it's amazing to me howquickly this like you were
(24:36):
saying that like resentment canjust kind of like build and
build and build.
It's shocking, yep, and I feellike you don't necessarily
notice like the slow creep, butall of a sudden you're like oh
my gosh, we're like we're inthis resentment kind of like
comparison thing.
I would love to know what are.
You could take this.
Whatever direction you thinkwould be would answer this best.
(24:58):
But I think my question wouldbe what are the ways to
communicate well and worktowards health here?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, so let's just do the whatever you want to call
it.
So it's like tit for tat or Isaid that once and someone's
like that's a really oldsounding phrase.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
No, I say it, I guess I'm really old, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
But.
Or the hardship Olympics, whichis you're competing to have it
harder and, um, I think I'vebeen here because my husband, my
husband, travels every week andand we don't do it anymore.
Um, but we used, we used tovery much get stuck in this
because he would be so drainedfrom traveling and I would be
(25:38):
like, well, who do you think youknow, kept everything going
here, you know, felt sort ofunseen.
So I think, gosh, ourrelationships would just so
benefit from like heapingamounts of grace and
graciousness.
And I think sometimes westruggle with that when we're
really drained and we're tiredand we're not feeling like we're
(25:59):
being seen and appreciated.
And so I think my advice forthat tit for tat or the hardship
Olympics is twofold.
So the one, the first piece, iskind of like to shift your
thinking.
And the thinking shift is likeit doesn't cost me anything to
acknowledge my partner'sdifficulties, Like we have to
remember that, like it doesn'ttake anything away from my
(26:22):
difficulty if I say what you didwas difficult.
And I think that we, for somereason, we really do, if we're
not thinking that consciously,we really do have that
subconscious sort of thing oflike if I give them the little
inch, then they're going to gettheir head's going to get big,
or they're going to be like,yeah, they're going to lean into
it and rub it in, or likewhatever you think it's going to
(26:42):
like unravel, we're going tolose power.
There's a lot of power dynamicsin relationships that would
sneak up on us, but so the firstis remembering that to give a
little bit to your partner takesnothing away from you.
It doesn't devalue yourexperience.
I think the other thing is thata lot of times when we enter
into that interaction, I call itus having parallel needs, so
(27:06):
it's like we both have the sameneed and they're just running
alongside each other andsomebody's got to jump over and
meet the need first, and alsoit's just annoying.
I do want to acknowledge likeit's super annoying when this
happens.
It's annoying when, like, youexpress something like this and
it's like, all of a sudden, yourpartner at that very moment
needs to have this need to andyou're like, well, great timing.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It is really annoying .
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I don't want to ever brush over the fact that it's
very frustrating, but thereality is, if you want to have
an enjoyable experience in yourrelationship, if you want to get
more from your relationship,sometimes you have to give a
little bit more.
And so you got to cross over tomeet that parallel need.
So if it's like for now, fromnow on, my husband, I have like
completely shifted this.
So if he comes home he's likeI'm so exhausted, I'll just say
(27:53):
you gotta be like, you gotta betired.
What you did was exhausting,Like I, I get it, man.
And then later, if I say I'm soexhausted from you being gone,
he'll be like yeah, you must belike.
We just both feed each otherand it doesn't cost either
anything.
And then and the more we resistdoing that the sort of like,
(28:14):
harder our partners will oftendig their heels in and be less
likely to give.
So step, step over, meet theparallel need and see if things
soften, so then you can also getwhat you need.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Are there any tools that could help a mom that's
overwhelming with or that'soverwhelmed with mental load
Like?
Do you have any like day in andday out tools?
Maybe that just came to mind.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
So I am like a um, I'm a little I give very
practical tools in both of mybooks, Um, but I'm also like a
big picture thinker.
So that's kind of where I'mgoing to come from with this one
, but my first.
I feel like my books complimenteach other really well because
the first one is for moms andit's really about how do you
manage your relationship withyourself.
(29:02):
So, like historically, womenkind of are really bad about
speaking up for what they need.
We're pretty bad about actuallyeven knowing what we need and
then, especially after become amom, you sort of have to put
yourself on the back burner justto keep your kid alive, but we
get stuck there and so then weget really disconnected from
ourselves and what we need.
(29:22):
And so I think like one of thebiggest pieces for women when it
comes to the mental load islearning how to sort of like
reconnect with yourself so youcan step into your power and
agency in your relationship.
So it took like in my own life,it took me a long time to even
feel like I had a right to askfor more participation from my
(29:44):
husband, and I think that'spretty common and so, um, that
that is, I think, one of themost important pieces.
So in my first book I talk about, um, how moms need to really do
a good job of regularly almostdoing like a self check-in, or
you can think of it like a selfscan.
So because we move through ourworld really thinking others,
(30:07):
other, how can I meet your needs, how can I anticipate your
needs?
But like we become kind ofinvisible even to ourselves.
So it's how do you do a quickself check-in?
I give a five-step frameworkfor doing that.
But if you just think aboutthis it's not too tricky to
understand, which is like, takea minute, how am I doing
emotionally?
How's my energy mentally?
Where can I turn the dials alittle bit to make a difference?
(30:29):
How can I define what's going onwith me, Check in with myself,
acknowledge myself and thendecide how I want to move
forward?
So it's back to what you saidearly on, like that definition
that empowers you to make achange.
So in the book I give thedefinition for exactly how you
do that check-in.
But even if moms don't read thebook and you just practice,
like every day, multiple times aday, when you go to the
bathroom and you change yourdiaper, like how am I doing?
(30:51):
What's going on with me?
What do I need?
And start to develop back thatrelationship with ourselves.
It goes a long way.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Such important conversation.
Well, you know, I really wasthinking a lot about this
conversation again because ofthe season that we're in and
just hearing so many of ourfriends' conversations playing
through my mind.
But I was thinking about thingslike postpartum seasons for
moms, or even going to a babyshower.
There is almost I'm speakingvery generally here but no
(31:22):
conversation that has aboutmarriage, like here's dinner for
your family so you don't haveto cook, not, hey, how are you
guys doing?
Or like getting ready for ababy shower.
There's so much focus onpositivity and celebration but
very little prep about that, andthat's a whole different
conversation.
I didn't feel prepped well forpostpartum in general, even just
(31:43):
healing wise, like the medicalside of it for me.
I was like nobody told me aboutthat, right, yeah, so I really
I think this might be the mostimportant part of the
conversation, potentially,depending on where people are at
.
How can we be the people thatlead the charge on this and our
own friends and in our familiesto better support the marriages
(32:06):
of those around us?
Like what, maybe questions,could we be asking what
approaches to support them?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Well, Hmm, that's a big question.
So I I mean, I think um lettingthe people around you know
we're like, you know, goingthrough these moments, that you
understand it.
I think sometimes just tellingour stories uh allows us to step
into these conversations in away that people know that
(32:34):
they're safe to also sharetheirs and um, you know there's
there's conversations that exist.
I mean I I spent a lot of timeat playgrounds with my kids were
really little talking aboutthere's a lot of conversations
that exist that become sort oflike complaining about our
relationship, and sometimes wemight need a little bit of that,
but it's dangerous.
It's a little dangerous to gothere too much but to to really
(32:58):
be a place where it's like youcan speak to me about your
relationship and I will hear youand I will um not judge it and
I will let you know that this isnormal and I will support, I
will be pro relationship, um,pro both partners.
I think it's important to havepeople like that in our lives
and so when we tell our story,it helps, helps to do that.
(33:19):
I mean, I think more on abigger scale, I know in my own
work it's like it's like my book, it's like talking about these
things as much as I can.
It's trying to offer um.
You know my own story.
I guess I'm doing it on abigger scale.
I I spoke um on last week at amarriage conference in front of
like over 5,000 people and itwas told them about the time my
(33:41):
husband said he wasn't happywith her sex life and it's like
I don't mind if my story willhelp to normalize something
painful in your relationship.
So it opens up avenues for youto have conversation that is
productive and moving you towardgreater connection and healing,
and I'm happy to share thatwith you.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So I think more of that a little bit more
vulnerability.
So I'm thinking like that couldpotentially look like someone
saying like, hey, when webrought so-and-so home for the
first time, like our kid homefor the first time, our marriage
really took a hit.
Like if that happens to youguys, don't be surprised.
Or like here's what helped us.
Like I've kind of made a vow tomyself to be the one that
writes the downer baby showernote.
(34:18):
Like courage to all my friends.
Like here are the things toexpect that no one told me to
expect you know, including someof those things in there.
I mean, there's a way to frameit Like you said, like not a way
doom and gloom, but just eyeswide open.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Yeah, and I mean, you're no-transcript.
(35:08):
How it is now is how it willalways be, and so, um, I want
parents out there to have hopethat it's like it's.
Even the research shows thedrop in satisfaction is
temporary.
The trick is navigating thistime without creating a
permanent resentment or rift inyour relationship that you can't
get out of.
It's navigating this earlyseason while really being soft
(35:32):
to one another and caring foryour relationship, and that
becomes sort of like themarching orders for this early
season with kids.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Another thing that's been hugely helpful to me is to
be together as family units withother families in the same
season, so we can hear theirconversations, they could hear
ours, and it's like, oh my gosh,like we have each other's backs
, we're going through similarexperiences and, man, it's so
good, it's so important, it'simportant to make space for it
is.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It's really good, it is.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
What else in the book .
You could take this anydirection.
Are you excited for people toexperience?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Oh gosh.
So okay, a few things.
There are a couple of books onthe mental load that already
exists.
There's one in particularthat's really, really a popular
book, very popular.
It's just genius solution toactually how you like delegate
responsibility.
(36:32):
So, like the practical,logistical side, like how do I
hand off some of what I'm doingto my partner it is absolutely
genius.
The the.
Where I'm wanting to add to theconversation and what I'm
excited about with this book isthat some people have a hard
time even having thatconversation because their
partner is so defensive orbecause the the one partner
(36:53):
feels so resentful already thatit's like you can't have the
conversation without it justspiraling into this argument,
and so I think even equippingcouples to tackle this
conversation together is veryimportant, and that's a big
piece of what my book does.
It will help your relationshipin general.
Um, it's it's very meaty interms of, like the content and
the practical tools, so that'sone piece.
(37:16):
Um, I haven't seen a book thatactually helped couples really
talk about it.
And the other thing is like themental load changes literally
every day and definitelydepending on what's going on in
your life.
So around the holidays, ourmental load is exponentially
bigger, or like December.
November is like all ourfamily's birthdays plus the
(37:37):
holidays, and it's like I feellike I'm like losing my my mind,
and so, because the mental loadalways changes, we have to be
able to talk about it regularly.
Can you imagine?
Every time you bring it up it'sa fight.
What happens is women stuff it,they get resentful and they
can't.
They don't feel like theirpartner's safe, and when you
don't feel like you're safe withyour partner to come to them,
(37:57):
it starts to deteriorateeverything in the relationship.
So it really equips couples inthat way, which I'm excited
about.
The other piece is that if youconsume any amount of content on
this topic on social ormainstream media, it's pretty
negative toward men, it's pretty.
I find it condescendingactually, and it really I
(38:17):
haven't leaned into this yet inmy own content, but I will and,
um, I think it's, I think we're,it's a we're missing the mark.
We're missing the mark becausecriticism isn't a good starting
place for change, and so my bookis different because it takes
the position that it is you andyour partner versus the world.
Modern family life isabsolutely bananas what we're
(38:41):
expected to accomplish and to doand the standards we're
supposed to uphold and thedistraction of our devices is
like a whole nother piece, thatwe have very high standards for
our parenting.
All of these things should bewhat we view as the enemy and
each other are.
We are on the same team versusthis shared enemy.
And so it takes thatperspective which I've not seen
(39:03):
anywhere and I think also willmake it a lot more palatable for
men to read the book.
They're not going to feel likeI'm being condescending, it's
like no, I get it.
There's perspective here.
And then third piece is the sexpiece.
Nobody's you know it's we haveto talk about.
The mental load affects theentire relationship and it's
going to affect your sex life.
And when that starts to go it,it creates, um, oftentimes
(39:28):
standoffs in the relationship orvulnerabilities, and so we have
to talk about how these thingsall work together and give
couples a plan to kind of move,move out of it.
And so I'm pumped about my book.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I am too.
I get a lot of um, I love it.
I love what I do.
I love hosting theseconversations and inviting
people into them.
Um, this was the first.
I mean I've.
I've seen a lot of books thisyear.
There's none like this one, andI think it's an important time
and stuff.
It sounds like I'm choked up.
I'm just it's an important timein culture to launch it too.
(40:06):
I think, um, maybe just causeI'm hyper aware of it because of
our season, but, um, it'sreally good yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I see your son yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Well.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I think you're right.
There's certain like there'sjust certain times where there's
a buzz around something, and itis.
There's a buzz around, I think,motherhood and women and what
we experience in that domain oflife.
There's a buzz around themental load, and so yeah, I mean
I'm, I'm hopeful that you knowit's.
Anytime you launch a book, it'sreally interesting process but
(40:37):
you just sort of like hope andpray that it gets in front of
the right people, especiallywhen you like have such belief
in the message and how it willimpact lives.
And so yeah, that's, I'm justhoping that's what happens.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well, I'm excited for you.
You know there's.
Have you read the book A mom isborn?
Have you heard of that one?
No, I don't think I've readthat one.
It's the most honest, um, uhbook like that propels you into
postpartum that I read.
So I was given a lot of booksand I felt like it was the most
honest, and so I feel likepeople could give a copy of that
book and a copy of yours.
(41:12):
Yes, that would be the bestbundle.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Yes, and my first one too, because I think, like the
first one I said, that that oneis a real personal one.
It's it gives moms a five-stepplan to really care for
themselves well, and I'm nottalking about pedicures and
bubble baths, and I take everytool that I offer and I apply it
to how it, how it relates toyour relationship with your kids
, and then also how you how itrelates to your relationship
(41:38):
with your kids, and then alsohow you can translate that to
your relationship with yourself.
So the short summary is like itteaches moms how to mother
themselves, like they mothertheir kids, and it's important
we know how to do that, andespecially in that early phase.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I love a good bundle.
I love a bundle too.
Check out that other bookyou're talking about Basket man,
that's my language.
Well, we are going to attach alink to the book on our show
notes and so wherever people arelistening, you could head on
over and get a copy of the book.
Wherever books are sold, yes.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah, and hopefully it's okay to say this, but I'm
not sure when this releases.
But pre-orders are like areally big deal to authors and I
just realized this and I doublechecked my information.
But when you pre-order on likeAmazon, I don't know everywhere
else but you don't even getcharged until right before the
book ships.
So it's like there's no realimpediment to pre-ordering, but
(42:39):
it really, really supports thework of the author.
And I also have and I can giveyou the link for this, but I
have leak thank you gifts.
So if you pre-order, you getthe first two chapters on audio
right away.
I created a guide for peoplewho have, like you or your
partner, adhd and the mentalload, because that brings up a
whole different slew of issues,so to help couples who have ADHD
(43:01):
as part of their relationship,and then some like printables to
help with dinner and packingand things like that that are
just annoying, take up space.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Wow, yeah, I've learned so much about the
pre-order process, and so I'm ahuge supporter of well wanting
to encourage our community inthat direction too, so we will
get this launched in advance ofthe launch.
Thank you With that in mind, ofcourse.
Well, we end each of ourconversations with the same
three questions, and I'd love tohear your answers as well.
(43:34):
The first one is something thatyou've eaten recently and loved
.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
I have like a lot of food sensitivities, so this is
like not exciting and this issuper weird, but I eat a lot of
beef and I've been putting honeyon it and it's actually really
delicious and I'm sure no oneout there will want to try it,
but it's actually really reallygood and so yeah, I know, are
(44:03):
you a hot honey person?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I've never done that.
I mean I put it in tea.
No, no, no, okay, so not Ishould.
Okay, oh, tell me so, likeMike's hot honey, it has to be
Mike's.
Oh spicy, but it's not.
I don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
It's not spicy like burn your tongue, but it has.
You have to have it.
I'll get it.
I'll get some.
Yeah, I like a little kick,like a kick.
Yeah, yeah, it's sweet.
That sounds awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
So you're saying you put it on beef.
I put Mike's Hot Honey oneverything.
I put it on my burgers.
I put it on.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Okay, you do too.
It's good.
A sweetness to beef isdelicious.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
And on my pizza Mike's hot honey.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
What about on cheese?
Do you ever put on cheese?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I know people do, so I'm very sensitive.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
So I don't know, oh okay, well, I get it I know what
was I just going to say, though?
Speaker 1 (44:55):
that I put it on Pizza beef and whatever.
I put it on everything, but itcan't be.
It can't be the Trader Joe'sone, it can't.
Nothing has to be Mike's.
Okay, you got it, I'm in.
Oh yeah, I'm with you, and thenI don't know where you get your
beef.
Do you do good ranchers at all?
Speaker 3 (45:12):
I haven't done good.
Ranchers, I order.
Right now I've been orderingfrom primal pastures.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh, nice, great, yeah , had theirs.
Um, good, ranchers are friendsof ours and their ground beef,
specifically, is my favoriteground beef.
Yeah, I'll check it out.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
How about something you found to be beautiful lately
?
Speaker 3 (45:31):
So I just had to um drive very far to drop my kid's
friends off somewhere, um, andas we're driving, so it's pretty
warm, it's like in the 60s forus right now, but then when you
drive you can see the mountainsand they're covered in snow.
So it's like the sun and thepalm trees and then the snowy
mountains, and I think that isjust like one of the most
(45:53):
beautiful parts of uh,california life, which is that,
like all, of the landscape is sostunning.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
I could do snow if I had palm trees.
Yeah, Last but not least,something you've discovered
lately that you think everyoneshould know about a Netflix show
Amazon purchase.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
I gosh, I okay, there's this facial oil that
it's not recent.
I've used it for a long timebut I'm obsessed with it.
Um, and it's not even veryexpensive and it's all handmade
and hand batch.
So I try to use really cleanstuff.
But it's this brand called Keat.
It's Q E, t and um, I lovetheir cleansing oil and then
(46:35):
their daily hydrating oil.
It's insane.
It's so, so, so, so good.
And then the other thing is isI recently got this um ice
roller, but it's by the skinnyconfidential.
That's travel.
So it's like a cube and it hastwo lids, so like on either side
it kind of pulls apart andthere's two different rollers,
so one's like flat and then onehas a groove, so it like gets in
(46:56):
your jawline and it's sodelightful.
Honestly, you can put it inyour freezer, your fridge, and
it's just.
I'm pretty obsessed with it.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I'll attach both of those.
I got one of those like thoselike red light face sculptor,
you know things the wand or themask, the wand Ooh, I don't have
one of those.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
And I got one of the dupe ones, you know it the wand
or the mask.
The wand Ooh, I don't have oneof those.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And I got one of the dupe ones.
You know it's not like the mainone that everyone's talking
about and maybe this isn't goodfor him.
But Wesley knows when I'm likedoing it every morning and he
wants me to put some on like hisface.
So I'm sculpting my jawline andhis.
So cute.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
So cute, no harm in that?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Well, where do you want to send people to learn
more?
Speaker 3 (47:43):
You can find me on Instagram, which is just Dr
Morgan Cutlip.
It's a D-R Morgan Cutlip.
Cutlip is injury to the lip,that's how you spell it.
That's also my website, whichis drmorgancutlipcom.
And then my book is called um abetter share how couples can
tackle the mental load for morefun, less resentment and great
sex.
And it's anywhere you buy books.
So Amazon, barnes and NobleChristian books it's there too.
(48:06):
Um, I think Amazon right nowmight be the best price, but,
yeah, anywhere you get books.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Oh, exciting, so so good.
Well, guys, I hope that throughthis conversation you feel um
seen.
And, guys, I hope that throughthis conversation you feel seen
and empowered maybe I don't knowif that's the word I'm looking
for but to kind of take chargeof this conversation in your own
homes and in your ownfriendships and relationships,
because, my goodness, I feellike it could save a lot of
(48:33):
marriages potentially andstrengthen a lot of
relationships.
So we are so grateful that youguys tuned in this week.
Be sure to share it and leave areview wherever you're
listening, and we will see younext week.
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