March 12, 2025 • 63 mins
London, Indian Food, Entrepreneurship. Upon learning about Asma Kahn, I knew that there would be a lot I'd love about her story. What I didn't expect was that through learning more about her, she would quickly become one my industry hero's and greatest inspirations.
The moment Asma Khan starts speaking about her childhood in India, you're transported to a world of cricket games in the streets, wedding celebrations spanning entire months, and kitchens filled with the layered aromas of spices. But beneath this lies a powerful story of transformation that has earned her recognition as one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People of 2024.
She shares about how being no one's favorite as a child fueled her to not just succeed, but invite others to use their stories as a catapult, in the same way.
Her Michelin Guide-nominated restaurant defied every industry expectation with its all-female kitchen staffed by mothers and grandmothers without formal culinary training. Critics predicted failure, but what emerged was a celebration of authentic home cooking that attracts Hollywood A-listers while maintaining an unwavering commitment to social causes.
Whether discussing her new cookbook "Monsoon," debunking myths about "authentic" Indian cuisine, or sharing wisdom about pushing through the darkest moments of entrepreneurship, Asma offers a masterclass in courage and conviction. Follow her journey on Instagram @asmakhanlondon and discover why her story resonates with anyone who has ever felt like they don't belong.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you talk to me for just a few minutes, you will
learn two things One, that myrecent obsession is the Peloton,
and two, that I love talkingall things about the royal
family.
With that we came to learnabout our new guest and our new
friend to the show, asma, andvery quickly there were a few
things that stood out about her.
(00:20):
The first the absolute stunningdesign of her cookbook.
It totally took my breath away.
And the second were her careerachievements, and I don't take
that lightly.
I was inspired by her simply byreading her bio, and it just
grew from there.
Guys, I didn't know exactlywhat to expect in this
conversation.
(00:41):
I knew that I would enjoy it,but I didn't know that it was
going to change my life.
There are a few people in mycareer that I feel are heroes in
the industry or deeplyinspiring to me, and after this
conversation and after learningmore about her, asma is one of
them for me.
If she is new to you, here is alittle bit more about her as
(01:02):
you get to know her.
A force in London's culinaryscene and an outspoken activist.
Indian-born Britishrestaurateur, asma Khan has
always been a disruptor.
Her Michelin Guide-nominatedrestaurant, best known for its
revolutionary, all-femalekitchen has become a favorite of
Hollywood A-listers, whilebeing an oasis and a safe place
for women Through servingauthentic homestyle food.
(01:25):
In the heart of London, herrestaurant has reached to the
top of the food scene, while atits core retaining Khan's
unwavering commitment tograssroots social and
environmental causes.
Time magazine recognized her asone of 2024's 100 most
influential people in the worldfor her pioneering business
ethos.
She is the chef advocate forthe UN World Food Program and a
(01:48):
member of the Mayor of London'sBusiness Advisory Board.
Khan has been awarded honoraryfellowships by Queen's College,
oxford University and afellowship at King's College
London, where she also holds aPhD in British constitutional
law.
Khan was the first British chefto be profiled by Netflix's
Emmy-nominated Chef's Table andhas appeared in shows such as
(02:11):
Celebrity, masterchef and TopChef.
She's currently working onTiffin Stories, a six-part
series on food and memories.
Asma is an award-winningcookbook author.
Her third cookbook, monsoon,due to reach actually, as we're
reading this, it is officiallylive now.
It is on the market, ready foryou to get your copy of it In
(02:31):
2025,.
Khan became I want to make sureI'm saying this right Sodexo
Stop Hunger Foundation's firstpatron.
You are going to absolutelyadore her as much as I did.
I cannot wait to give you thisconversation, but before we do,
I have to tell you aboutsomething that I have been
absolutely loving lately.
So you guys know most of youknow if you're a longtime
(02:54):
listener of the show I amworking from home, working on
the podcast, watching Wesley,kind of all at the same time,
and it feels like my days startto kind of blur my habits, blur.
It all just kind of meshestogether and I have been trying
to be more intentional abouttaking moments of rest for
myself, of taking care formyself uh, taking care of myself
(03:16):
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Speaker 2 (04:42):
Hi, I'm.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Katie, a hospitality educator and the host of Making
Room by Gather podcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness andwith it I was given a choice to
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it, and for me
(05:06):
that meant two things that Ineeded the healing to learn how
to accept an invitation and theconfidence to know how to extend
one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through Making Room by Gather,you will hear conversations from
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
(05:26):
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
the table, but can I tell yousomething?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Okay, my goodness, I have been so excited for this
conversation.
I'm a bit of a Londonenthusiast, a UK enthusiast.
I have yet to go.
I've spent quite a bit of timein Europe.
I've been to France and Spain,italy, but I haven't made my way
to the UK yet and you werecalling in from there.
So I'm a little bit, a littlebit jealous, but so glad that
you're here, that you're here.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Thank you, and you need to come to London.
London has.
It's just a buzzing place.
I mean, if weather is not thething for you.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Everything else is fabulous in this place.
How, how common like how oftenis it rainy?
Is that just a daily part oflife?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
No, it's not that bad .
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It doesn't rain all the time, but it's just very
random.
It rains and it doesn't rainlike down.
So you've had an umbrella,you're still soaked because the
rain is like coming at an angle.
It's very cold rain as well,and also because I compared to
the rain that we have where Igrew up in India.
The rain here is like a coldshower.
(06:44):
It's always cold, Even insummer.
The rain feels cold.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
It's funny I should know to talk about this later.
We lived in Thailand for awhile, so we had a monsoon
season in Thailand, and so it'slike you went from one monsoon
to another.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Well, I might add little snippets of London
questions throughout ourconversation, but I want to
start off by getting to know youa little bit better.
Your background is so oh mygosh so dynamic.
You have so many differentparts of your career that I'd
love to cover, but first let'stalk about a little bit of your
childhood in India.
We've yet to have a guestraised in India, and so I want
(07:30):
to hear from you whatever youwant us to know about.
What role did life in Indiaplay with your career in?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
food.
India is fundamental to who Iam the food I cook, the way I
speak, and also it is like whereI get all my nourishment from,
for everything I do.
So even though I'm oceans away.
My childhood was so incrediblethat everything that I'm doing
(07:56):
today is because of the way thatI was raised and the city where
I grew up.
I think India is probably achanged place today from the
time that I was growing up.
I grew up in an India wherethere was no mobile phones, no
television.
You got very little cinema thatyou could go and see.
(08:18):
There was, of course, bollywood, which is our local cinema,
which was great and exciting,but at least in Bengal we didn't
get to see a lot of Hollywood.
And that actually was the mostbeautiful way to grow up,
because we played on the streets.
I love cricket.
(08:38):
I was allowed to play on thestreets with strangers, which is
interesting because people arequite strict about who you can
go out with and meet and playwith, and there were lots of
boys, who were all from allkinds of backgrounds, asked to
play cricket.
And I went to the mostincredible school, which no one
asked you who your father was.
(08:58):
They didn't ask you what yourbackground was.
So it was a school where we allwent wearing uniform and there
was no way of showing whetheryou were wealthy, whether you
were poor.
We were all in there and wewere trying to learn.
I know that I'm probablydescribing an ideal world.
I also know that that world nolonger exists, but my childhood
(09:22):
was very, very carefree, full offood and laughter, incredible
monsoons, but also a lot ofpoetry and music and fragrance
of flowers, that I rememberEvery kind of occasion and
festivities, that there werealways flowers.
(09:43):
And if anyone has seen even avideo clip of an Indian wedding,
I come from a huge clan, soentire December from my
childhood, four people weregetting married, so you went
from one henna night to asinging night, to a actual
wedding.
So, yeah, that my childhood waslike a dream come true, because
it was all full of just a lotof food and a lot of very nice.
(10:07):
You know, I mean my entire kindof all my cousins I was very
close to, so a lot of solidarityamong my cousins.
Not so great when it came tothe adults, who I was nobody's
favorite, but that's all right,you can't have everything and I
think that I was always theoutsider, for the kind of the
(10:29):
adults and the powerful peoplealways felt that I was not
someone who fit it in.
I probably didn't fit in, but Isaw beauty in everything and I
loved the food.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, asma, I was going to take this in another
direction, but I want to playoff of that comment that you
just made that you were no one'sfavorite.
What role do you think thatplayed in your adulthood, now
and your career?
Do you think that it impactedit or affected it?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
It is the fire to push myself to do something, to
break barriers and also to bebrave enough to do what I did
without fear to go into anindustry where you didn't see
anyone like me at all.
I'm talking about, you know, 10years ago.
(11:23):
No one looked like me, no onesounded like me, no one had a
name like me.
I'm a Muslim immigrant.
I'm in my 40s.
When I went to the bank toborrow money to open a tea shop
below my house, they laughed atme and said what a lovely hobby,
mrs Khan, I will never get.
I cried all the way home and Iswore that day I will become the
(11:46):
name that every woman can sayIn her 40s.
I was told to stay in my lane,but this I remember from my
childhood.
I was told to stay in my lanebecause people always saw me as
the outsider not quite fittingin with this beautiful, fair,
slim, princess kind of look thatall my cousins had.
(12:07):
I stood out so much because ofthe way I looked and what my
interests were.
I hated dressing up.
I wasn't willing to playprincess.
Yes, I'm from a royal family,but I didn't want to play
princess.
I should have been allowed to.
You know I want and I my entirechildhood I wanted to be a
pirate.
You know I want and I my entirechildhood I wanted to be a
pirate.
I wanted to steal from the richand give to the poor.
(12:28):
My dream was to be a pirate.
I wanted to sail off into theocean.
So that's not what princesseswant to do in my family.
So I think that being from the,you know, being on the fringes
of what was acceptable, I camein again being on the fringes,
being an immigrant, being older,not having a godfather in the
(12:49):
industry, not going through theranks and having the network.
I was unafraid because that'show I lived my life, being
unafraid because I was alwaysthe outsider, even in my
extended clan, I was never theinsider and my childhood gave me
the tools to deal with life asI faced it when I came to this
(13:13):
country for the first time, andI'm grateful that you shared
that part of your story becauseI think that it's something that
a lot of people could say metoo and I think that people
think it disqualifies them fromexcellence, from life, from
(13:34):
advancement in their career.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
And part of my story is my family moved a lot.
I've shared little bits of this.
I was bullied ruthlessly andfor a period of my life it
definitely affected my sense ofself-worth it totally did.
But then I realized, oh mygoodness, that actually, after
I've done all the heart work,the healing work you know, to
work through it, I realized, wow, I actually could see people in
(13:57):
such a new depth than I wouldhave been able to before.
I know what people need, and soit ended up being a gift that I
didn't necessarily want, but agift nonetheless, right.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Um, it does it.
I think that the sad thing isthat people who went through the
bullying that you did, or thekind of marginalization and the
uh, the kind of othering that Idid, this is happening to girls
today, right now, and if wedon't speak up, the problem is
that they may not be as lucky asyou and me to come out of this.
(14:33):
We come out of fire glisteninglike gold.
We go through these trials andtribulations and we are
victorious, but there are veryfew of us.
It is our moral duty to talkabout these things, because you
don't know who's listening.
You don't know who knows aboutsomeone who's going through this
(14:53):
fire and they can step in,because it is so important to
know that you're not alone andalso to understand that what is
happening right now is not goingto dictate what happens to the
rest of your life.
You have to find the tools toovercome it.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I love the way you worded that part.
You have to find the tools.
It's an active process, right?
And so you have to firstrecognize like wow, I don't want
to stay like this forever.
And then it requires a step ofaction, which I often say.
It could be clumsy, it couldcome with a lot of tears, like
you were saying that part ofyour story that you went to the
bank to get a loan and you criedon the way home and look at you
(15:36):
.
Now you know it's, but you haveto.
You have to recognize like itmight be, might come with some
growing pains and some right, itcould be a little.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, it is hard and the thing is that you know, for,
like you, you've just you knowyou're talking about how you
constantly moved.
For me, my move was reallysignificant and, you know,
dramatic, it was an uprooting.
But even when there are nogreat moves, even in the on the
street on which you were bornand you're living and you went
to school, you can go throughthe same feelings that you went,
(16:07):
moving around me, moving acrossoceans.
That's the frightening thingthat you can still be in your
same street and pass everyfamiliar tree and recognize
everybody's door and know whoeverybody is.
Yet you can be an outsider.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, I feel like this conversation is going to
take a little bit of a differentturn, in a good way.
Because this conversation is sorich, I guess I'll pull on it
just for a second.
So you said that you could youknow talking about people that
are outsiders in theircommunities.
If we are, hmm, what way do Iwant to take that?
(16:48):
I guess, if you are someonethat feels like an outsider in
your community, what is yourencouragement to her?
You speak a lot to the heart ofwomen and so I guess, if we're
talking to someone today whofeels like an outsider and maybe
is at the very beginning ofrecognizing it and taking steps,
what do you say to her?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
The first thing I would tell her is that she's
good enough.
Do not allow someone else toput a badge on you.
Do not allow them to put youinto a box.
Tell yourself you're thecaptain of your ship, you will
sail and you will go where youwant.
No one gets on your ship andtells you what to do.
This is very, very important.
You write your own story.
(17:27):
You are the heroine of yourlife and the problem is that too
many of us don't evenarticulate.
We cannot say it.
Go to the mirror and say it toyourself.
I am the heroine of my life.
I am going to tell my storyBecause the problem is the
moment you allow people to giveyou the impression that you stay
in your lane, that you do nothave the right to move lanes,
(17:49):
that you're not right At 40, oh,you can't do this.
I mean really significant womenwho were in the industry, in
hospitality, told me this that,Asma, you're going to fail.
You have to have professionalmale chefs, experienced people,
to come in.
You cannot run this all-femalekitchen with mothers and
grandmothers.
You are going to fail.
In my heart I was screaming I'mgoing to be victorious.
(18:14):
I'm going to win.
I will be the greatest there'sever been, Not driven out of
arrogance, but I had to tellmyself, so I did not crumble.
But I had to tell myself, so Idid not crumble.
It's really important If youdon't believe in yourself, why
will anyone else believe in you?
It's really important tobelieve.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
When you said not in arrogance.
It's so funny.
I was just thinking of acomment that I wanted to make
when you were finished in thatsame um, that same track, um, I
remember very, very early onwhen I had this dream for a
business that I haven't yetreached you know, I'm still in
the process, right and I heardthis story of an Olympic
marathon runner, and when he gothis gold medal, they asked him
(18:57):
how does this feel?
Does this surprise you?
And he said no.
He said it doesn't, it doesn'tsurprise me, something along
those lines, because he knew it.
That was always the end insight.
He knew that he was alwaysworking towards it, right, and
so it didn't surprise him.
Now, I told a few people thatstory and I was met with
comments like oh, isn't thatlike prideful, or isn't that
arrogance?
It's like no, no, no, it's just.
(19:17):
I mean, what would you callthat?
What's the alternative thatwe're talking about?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I think that this is a problem, this imposter
syndrome that everybody feelsthat you know a lot of women
have who are successful.
Whenever anyone asks me, do youhave imposter syndrome, I stare
at them.
I say no, why will I?
And this person who said thatare you?
When they asked him, are yousurprised?
You got the gold and said no,I'm not.
The hours of training thatperson probably went through all
(19:43):
the sacrifices they did, fromwhat they eat to not seeing
family, to going out and running, whether it was sunshine or
rain, the heartbreak and themuscle pain and all the buildup.
Four years they have trainedfor that few seconds on the
track and they got the gold.
And yes, I absolutely thinkthat person.
(20:04):
When they said that I'm notsurprised, it is their inner
belief, it was the belief ofthat person who got that gold,
not that actual person.
And yes, so they're notsurprised because you need to
imagine yourself victorious.
I say this to all women when Imeet them and they say I want to
do this, I think I said justvisualize yourself at the very
(20:28):
top that you've got there.
If you do not visualize ityourself, how are you going to
get there?
And so when this personprobably visualized that gold
medal for all the hard, toughtraining that he did.
So, yeah, I don't think it'sarrogance, it is, it's a reality
and the thing is that almost weare.
(20:49):
We are expected not to saythese things because it's
misunderstood.
But we don't see the crosssomeone is carrying.
You don't know the burdens andthe hurdles on which they fell
and bled those scars that Icarry today, despite all my
(21:10):
success.
It's not that I don't feel thescars.
I see them.
I feel them.
It has been decades.
They don't disappear.
So it is an emotional thingPeople should be, I think
open-hearted and talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I also I don't know if you feel this way too.
I've been reflecting on this alot lately.
People love connectingthemselves to people and stories
once they've arrived atwhatever the goal is, but the
middle people don't know what todo with.
People.
Kind of like in the middleright, like there's maybe
judgment misunderstanding.
Do you feel that way?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
people kind of like in the middle right, Like
there's maybe judgmentmisunderstanding.
Do you feel that way?
Do you know what I'm saying?
No, no, absolutely, absolutely.
I mean I I lost all the friendsthat I had in that middle time
who were there for me, andsuddenly not there for me, this
struggling period of of beingincomplete because you haven't
(22:10):
got there.
I used to be very inspired bywhat my father used to tell me.
He used to take me to thebalcony and the roof, wherever,
depending on the weather, and heused to make me listen to the
birds before dawn and he told meAsma, you are that bird.
You are telling everybody dawnis coming, in absolute, total
(22:36):
darkness.
That bird was singing andtelling you about light.
That middle stage that youdescribed is that.
But as you and I both know, andas everybody knows, day will
always follow night.
You must believe that day willcome, but that complete darkness
before that light comes, Ithink women who have made it if
(23:00):
it is a colleague of yours orsomeone in your family or friend
, be that bird, tell them, singto them, tell them about light.
And the problem is that thatmiddle stage where you are not
you started something but youhaven't made it is the darkest,
hardest part, and I'm so gladyou raised this, because no one
(23:21):
wants to talk about it.
They all want to talk aboutyour success and they want to
talk about you.
Know why did you have this idea?
What is your kind of?
And everybody's talking tothese kids who want to be techie
and want to do stuff, but thisin-between hard grind of
nothingness, of darkness, it'sas if it doesn't exist.
But most of our success isbecause we handle that darkness.
(23:44):
We handle that nothingness inour lives and that's how we got
out into the light.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
It's not the attractive part of the dreaming,
creative entrepreneurconversation, right.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
No, it's because there's no glory in it, there's
no story in it and this is likeit's not attractive, it's not
exciting.
And also I think thatunfortunately for women and a
lot of women, this is the partwhere they can't communicate
with each other, with otherpeople.
There's no mentoring andthere's no support in that very
(24:20):
difficult stage and this is.
I do a lot of this work with alot of women in food.
I have an open door and I replyto all my DMs on my social
media.
I reply to women, and a lot ofthem practically from around the
world.
I take the time because Iunderstand this is their
darkness.
They're waiting for their dawn.
(24:40):
I'll be their friend, I'll bethe bird for them at that point.
I do a lot of it, but I thinkall of us should be doing it.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, yeah, wow, my goodness, I'm just thinking
through that.
It's a rare gift and sobeautiful that you I don't know
give so much of your time tothat and to those women.
I don't want to make it aboutme, but you were talking about
how your father put you on thebalcony listening to the birds.
My grandpa had a, so we livedwith him for quite a few years
(25:10):
of my life and in the morningwe'd be sitting and having
breakfast before I went toschool, and I'm totally going to
butcher it.
But he would say this Italianphrase like e solo muoiesh, and
it meant the sun's.
He said, look, catalina, e solomuoiesh.
I'm mixing up my words, but,catalina, the sun's coming up,
the sun's coming up, and I wouldget so frustrated with him.
(25:35):
I was like, of course, none ofthe sun's coming up.
I know it's coming up, but Irealized later in life what he
was telling me.
He would say, despite,everything else going on.
the sun's coming up.
Look, it's a new day.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's a new day, no, and this is what your
grandfather, my father, thiskind of souls of wisdom are so
important.
But not everybody has the goodfortune.
You could sit with yourgrandfather and have breakfast,
I could sit and talk to myfather, but for those who do not
have anyone around them, who isthat kind of that mentor, the
(26:05):
anchor?
It's tough.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
We've talked a little bit about mentorship on this
show and how to be mentored, howto find a mentor.
Your perspective, I think, is alittle bit unique with
identifying people in this kindof like messy middle gray area.
So if you are someone, maybe inseasons like you or I, who
(26:29):
understand what that's like, whounderstand that, how can we be
that for other people?
Do you have?
Like, how could we replicatethat in our own communities?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I think you know there's no correct way and
there's no kind of, and I thinkthat it's a learning process.
But as long as you try, youknow.
I think that that's the biggestthing that you can learn along
the way.
I know I've made lots ofmistakes along my way.
Somehow or the other I've stillsucceeded.
It's not that I got everythingperfect.
(26:59):
I failed, I made bad choices, Isuffered.
We all went through COVID for arestauranteur.
It destroyed me.
But I think that it's a processof actually, first of all,
forgiving yourself and coming topeace with who you are.
(27:19):
Only then can you be of help toothers.
I think that's really important, for if you really want to be
someone who can support others,I think you need to be very,
very clear of where you are inlife, who you are.
Make peace with everythingthat's gone wrong in your life.
(27:40):
Then you are able to become.
Your shoulders are big enoughto carry people through.
Till you are not at that point,I think that you you can try,
but you may not be as effective.
I'm not saying that women whonot got their house in order
cannot do it, but I'm justthinking that those that have
(28:02):
even more important for themstep up because you've sorted
out things in your own life.
You emotionally now mature andand emotional maturity is
nothing to do with age.
Yeah, you know, I've talked tosome very young kids who've, you
know, given me some reallyimportant lessons in life, and I
think that that it's reallythat that I think that's just my
(28:22):
opinion.
I think that you need to bestable inside you to be able to
carry the burdens of others andtheir grief.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Powerful perspectives .
I had a pastor at a church thatI went to as a young kid that
always told us to lead in ourrelationships with our scars,
yeah, and there's a connectionthat happens there and a
relatability, and so I thinkit's beautiful.
It's beautiful what you offerand you bring to the table.
Well, we're going to shift thisconversation just for a second.
(28:55):
I think we're going to kind oflike ebb and flow from like the
heartfelt to the food scene,which I love.
If you were to talk to me for15 minutes, that's what you'd
get anyways.
We'd get heartfelt and food inevery conversation I have, and
so I feel like the British foodscene gets a bit of a bad rap.
(29:16):
I feel like in America at least,you talk about England, UK,
whatever, and all you hear islike bangers and mash and that's
all.
It is potatoes and sausage.
But you provide such a fresh Idon't know offer to the scene.
But to start, I would love tohear from you what do you wish
people knew about?
The reality of the food scenein the UK?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The reality of the food scene in England is not
just bangers and mash.
That is also there Because ofcolonialism and the history of
the spice trade and everythingthat happened.
What you get in England,especially what you get in
London, is the most incrediblearray of food of people of
(30:03):
different ethnicities,absolutely fabulouson is
definitely the food capital ofthe world because from indian to
chinese to japanese and youknow, from even kind of really
kind of regional cuisines, youget all of this because we've
had people from everywheresettled here.
And everyone's favorite in thiscountry I mean it's not a dish
(30:29):
that I make or recognize chickentikka masala.
Of course you know this is aBritish dish, I mean it is.
You know chicken tikka masalacame up in this country.
We don't even have it in India.
We don't know what it is.
So it was literally a dish thatwas developed in this country.
And you know I think that'swhat's so exciting about London
that on the same street the kindof variety of food you get and
(30:53):
the quality of the food you getis at a different level, and you
know.
So even things like you knowmost people don't know there's a
restaurant on Edgeware Road.
It's called Hijazi Corner.
It has the only Saudirestaurant.
You've got Afghan food, you'vecantonese food in chinatown.
(31:14):
Then you have a two michelinstar chinese place, uh called
you know it's avon, wherechinese food is taken to a level
which is just mind-blowing.
So from really high, finedining of of ethnic food to
really kind of soul satisfyingyou know food that you know you
can go to an Afghan place holein the wall and just get the
most beautiful food, london isthe most exciting place to come
(31:38):
if you love food.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I you are the first person I've ever like.
I'm so thankful for that freshperspective.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That's so, that's so exciting and that sounds like my
scene, my goodness, yeah, andand the great thing is that
london is not it's sprawling,but it's not it's you can
actually get around.
You know, we don't drive a lot.
I'll be used public transport.
Everything is accessibleeverywhere you can go and you
can literally eat the world inthe city.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
That sounds like incredible content to capture.
I'm just picturing a videoeating my way through one.
That sounds incredible.
I know that everyone there'sdifferent perceptions around,
like Meghan Markle and herinfluence in the community, but
she was my first exposure thecookbook that she came out with,
um to the diverse, diverse foodscene.
(32:33):
Um, but yeah, that's so.
That's so exciting, goodness.
Um, this is also silly and Ilive in a very, very small house
right now, and so I have myPeloton bike behind me and I
take I take a lot of the PelotonUK classes.
Do you know where the studio is?
Have you seen it?
I take a lot of the Peloton UKclasses.
Do you know where the studio is?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Have you seen it?
I think yes, it's in CoventGarden right.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I think there used to be one in Covent Garden.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Is that close to it?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I had moved to Covent Garden during COVID, so that's
what I thought.
I think that there was a studiothere Is that close to the food
scene at all?
Yes, of course it's at the veryheart of the river there as
well, but London, you don't needto go far, there's exciting
food in every corner I'mpicturing.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I'm like, okay, I can come, I could take a Peloton
class shower up, eat my waythrough yeah yeah, and then go
back to have another class soyou can eat literally anything
and everything you want, oh, mygoodness.
Well, let's talk about yourrestaurant.
So you referenced this a littlebit earlier and I knew what you
were talking about because I'velearned about you, but I know
(33:44):
listeners your story might benew to them.
So I love people that live lifeon purpose.
I love intentionality, I lovepeople that are charting a new
path in their industries and intheir lives, their homes, and
this is very much how you runyour business and your team.
So I would love to know well,actually, I think it's important
(34:05):
to say this because this wasthis is not a small
acknowledgement so you werelisted as one of Time Magazine's
most influential people, whichI wanted to celebrate, because
since I was a little kid, Iremember I was like I want to be
on the 30 under 30.
That was a big thing for me andwhether or not I ever get on
(34:26):
that list in my life, I alwayslike to celebrate when people
are, because it's a hugeaccomplishment.
But talk to us about yourunique approach.
What's unique about it in yourwords?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, this times 100, .
You know people, not women.
And what is exciting was, as apioneer, that was a category in
which I was listed.
I am a pioneer because in myrestaurant, which is of course
female-owned, is an all-femalekitchen.
We everybody, when they talkabout, oh, who's the best cook,
(35:02):
my mom or my grandmom?
No one looks like a mom orgrandmom in the kitchen,
especially in Indian food almostcompletely dominated by men who
learned in culinary school.
I was unafraid to open arestaurant run by women who
didn't go to culinary school.
Some didn't even go to school,but they had life experience,
(35:23):
they had patience, they had love.
The most incredible food cameout of my kitchen.
We have a small menu.
Everything is made fresh.
I didn't make what is the usualsuspects of almost contrived
Indian food.
It's like saying I'm going togo and have Indian food.
It's like saying I'm going togo and have European food.
What are you going to have?
You're going to have pasta,you're going to have something.
(35:44):
India is huge but there's ageneric Indian food that was
created for convenience.
You know bulk cooking, masscooking.
Things have changed now veryrecently, but for a long time
people's perception of Indianfood was so kind of it was
almost kind of monotonous.
This is what they thought itwas.
I was absolutely determined notto bend to all these kind of
(36:09):
rules.
I opened a restaurant servinghome food made all by women.
We didn't make our food lookFrench, we didn't make our food
look like it was covered with anedible garden, we just served
it the way we eat.
It would be successful.
(36:32):
We were very successful.
But then, a few months after weopened, chef's Table came to me
and I didn't even you know Iwas so surprised when they did
so.
I was the first British cheffeatured on Chef's Table.
This is now six years ago.
It changed our lives.
It became a game changer.
You know, we had everyone fromDanny DeVito to Paul Rudd in our
restaurant, from Danny DeVitoto Paul Rudd in our restaurant,
and so it is still a destinationplace.
(36:55):
A lot of Americans come.
In fact, the sweetest thing iswhen you see delighted people
coming because their partner hassurprised them by flying them
in from New York for lunch atour restaurant.
It's still something that yousay wow, people come here.
People come there to getengaged, so because the story
resonates with a lot of womenand men.
So it's not an us and themsituation.
(37:17):
It is anyone who has ever beenon the outside and been
marginalized for whatever reason, from your, you know, from your
gender to your sexuality, toyour working class background,
to any of these things and yourethnicity, your religion, any of
these things and your ethnicity, your religion, any of these
reasons that made you feel likeyou didn't belong.
I am living proof that you canbe victorious.
(37:39):
And that's what my restaurantis.
It radiates Shakti strength ofwomen.
There's an open kitchen.
You see these grandmotherssinging and cooking and they're
smiling and they're clapping andthey're so happy.
It's a place of joy.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Wow Goodness.
Now I'm like how come we're notrecording there?
That's where I want to be rightnow.
Oh my goodness, wow, wow.
Well, I um I wanted to jumpback to your chicken tikka
masala.
That it's not authentic, I hadno idea.
I very much enjoy that dish.
I eat it at least once a month.
(38:15):
I love Indian flavor.
At least I thought I did.
So.
What are some of the morecommon authentic dishes?
I've had chicken jalfrezi.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yes, and chicken jalfrezi is a British-Indian
combination.
I mean, I wrote a recipe forthis to try and explain to
people how it was created inIndia by the chefs for British
families during the British Raj.
So when the British were, youknow, had colonized India,
(38:50):
british families lived and theystill had Sunday roast, the
leftovers of the Sunday roast.
So the chefs would pick out allthe meat that was left and then
they would fry it with peppers,with chilies and onions and eat
it.
Over time, as these familiesgot more used to spices, they
were very curious to see whatthese people were eating and it
became a dish that came to theirtable and then became a British
(39:11):
Indian restaurant favorite.
So almost every restaurant thathas Indian food in England
you'll have chal pharezi.
There.
Chal is chili pharezi is fake.
It is literally it wasleftovers of a roast dinner that
was made in a chal pharezistore.
So these kind of.
It's not that these dishes camefrom nowhere and are completely
, you know, fake, but theydidn't originate as an authentic
(39:35):
Indian dish.
So a lot of the recipes that Ido are of our recipes, of my
family.
There are things that peopleyou know will find familiar.
Still, there'll be somethingunfamiliar in it, but it's a
really kind of.
It's the layering of the spiceswhich has always been what I've
written about, and the joy ofeating and also being grateful
(39:57):
for ingredients.
We've all forgotten, you know,whenever a plate of food is put
in front of you, I think whatpeople do today is take out
their phone and take a picture.
We've forgotten to say grace.
We've forgotten to give thanksnot just for the person who
cooked the food, but for thefarmer who grew the ingredients.
We've we become consumers.
(40:18):
For us, food is almost like aright and I think that the
privilege that we can eat andthere are enough people not
eating in the world today, in Inour own communities, in our
midst.
You don't need to cross acountry and go somewhere else.
In your own space, there arepeople, there are children who
(40:38):
are going to bed hungry.
I think you know food ismagical.
Food is about love, but food isalso about reverence to being
grateful to the earth, andthat's where I come from.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So if someone is going, so I'm in America.
Have you spent much time in theStates?
I actually don't know.
I do travel, I don't spend alot of time, but yes, I've been
in and out quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Okay, so I'm not sure how similar the food scenes,
are the offerings, but ifsomeone were to go to an Indian
restaurant, maybe in their owncommunity, and order something
that were authentic, what wouldyou recommend they order?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I would really suggest that they order dal, the
lentils, but not the blacklentils, which is what you get
in every restaurant, but theyellow lentils which are like,
just so fragrant and healing.
That's something that, you know, we do very well.
And I love the way that we cookcauliflower.
Cauliflower, you know, with anykind of combination.
I love potatoes, you know.
(41:35):
We, we, I come from Bengal andwe do a potato with poppy seeds
I've got the recipe in Monsoonbut potatoes with anything, even
just, you know, even just driedcumin and dried chilies.
It's just the way that we eat.
Our food is always aboutlayering of spices and that is
what makes it really authentic.
And, of course, you know, Ithink parathas are amazing.
(41:58):
I love parathas, any kind ofparatha, whether it's stuffed or
it's plain great way toactually have bread in our
cuisine.
And, of course, rice.
I'm from Bengal.
We do rice in many, many ways.
And, of course, rice I'm fromBengal, we do rice in many, many
ways and every version of rice.
I'm grateful for every grain ofrice I eat.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Wow, we learned that in Thailand too, because they're
so connected to the farmer.
You drive two minutes in anydirection and you're seeing a
rice farm, a rice field, and sothere's a lot of connection.
You never leave a grain of riceon your plate.
No, you don't.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
And the thing that as a child, my mother used to
always tell me that you knowevery grain of rice has your
name on it, the farmer when theygrew it, and I used to feel
that respect that I would neverleave rice.
Rice is sacred to us and Ithink that in Monsoon I've
written the early bit of thebook.
It's about small techniques andhow you get the most out of
(42:57):
every ingredient.
That elevates your cooking,because we always try to get as
much as we could from what wehad.
It's a hot country.
You can't store stuff, so whenyou have something small, you
treat it with a lot of respect.
I mean, yes, there wererefrigeration, but only for the
wealthy for a long time and youknow people didn't.
There was long power cuts soyou don't have electricity so
(43:19):
you couldn't refrigerate things.
So we used everything up.
We didn't have things that westored in the fridge and use the
next day.
We never had freezers.
When I was growing up, thefirst time I saw a freezer in
Cambridge I thought there was adead body inside it, because in
all the horror movies or in themorgue when you open it someone
comes out of it I really thoughtoh my God, in the kitchen
(43:42):
they've got.
You know, it's like a freezer,like a morgue where you put a
whole dead body in it.
I'd never seen anything likethis, so it's just very
different.
Growing up in India, I've keptthat very true to what I do In
my restaurant, in my cookbooks.
It's this slow lane, it's thisjoy and, unlike what a lot of
(44:04):
people think that oh my God,there's so many spices.
You don't need to get all thespices, even just two spices.
You can make the most fabulousfood and I teach you how to do
it Because I think that's how weeat.
You never could keep 10 spicesin your house in Calcutta.
It's so humid, there areinsects and all kinds of things.
You never protect it and Ithink a lot of people who have
(44:25):
not been to India don'tunderstand this.
Yeah, I've actually.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I've only tried to make tikka masala one time.
Don't understand this.
Yeah, I've.
Actually, I've only tried tomake tikka masala one time and
that's the only Indian dish I'vetried.
But I do, whenever I'm cravingit, I go out and I order it.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Well, if you can make chicken tikka masala.
You can literally make anything.
Really, the beauty of Indianfood.
Yes, go and find recipes andembrace them, because this whole
the stage process of you knowhow we cook is very simple.
It's really about layeringspices and layering flavors at
(45:04):
different times and, yes,chicken tikka masala is not what
we eat, but similar to that,pretty much similar to that.
There are lots of other dishesand you can experiment and try
new things.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
I just want to cook with you.
That's what I want to do.
I want you to teach me.
I am very happy to teach you?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yes, one day One day.
Because I understand, I teach intwo ways.
I have the recipe there, butthroughout the recipe in my
books, I also am talking to you,I'm holding your hand, I'm
telling you what is it thatyou're looking out for?
That the oil is going to getthere.
This is the aroma that's comingout of that, because you must
(45:46):
cook with more than one sense.
You're not just reading andcooking.
You've got to be able to getthe aroma, the sound, the taste,
the layering that you adjustthat dish to your taste, so that
everything comes alive and yourpalate is alive and joyous.
It's really important to behappy when you're cooking.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
That's good.
I think a lot of people feelfrustrated that they're not
better cooks but they resort toa lot of prepared foods and they
miss cooking with all of theirsenses.
And that's where you learn.
That's where you learn We'veheard that a lot from past
guests that you know parents ofsome of our guests when they
were younger, having them tasterecipes and say what is this
missing?
You know like, smell it, whatis it missing?
(46:27):
Taste it, what is it missing?
Speaker 2 (46:28):
And that's what I'm hearing from you as well, smell
it what is it missing?
Taste it.
What is it missing?
And that's what I'm hearingfrom you as well.
Yeah, no, this is critical.
This is how even though, when Icame to this country, I had no
idea how to cook, but I hadspent my entire childhood in the
kitchen and I was constantlymade to taste things.
When I went home, within onesummer, I was cooking everything
, because I knew what every dishrequired, because I tasted it.
(46:51):
When it was not complete, Iknew how to complete it.
I knew that touch of salt, thetouch of sugar, the little bit
of something else, the squeezeof lime, what is it that needs
that extra layering of spice,the final layering.
I understood, because till thatfinal layering, I often was
made to taste things Like howdoes this taste?
Is there enough salt or isthere enough sugar if it's a
(47:13):
dessert?
And this is such a gift.
You know, and I know we allhave busy lives, but if you can
gift your children anything,gift them the memories of being
in kitchen with you, with momand dad or grandparents or
whoever it is, this is a giftyou're giving them forever.
Don't even think of it.
As you know, we need somefamily time or whatever.
(47:35):
This is a life gift.
When you take your child intothe kitchen and you cook with
them, that little bit of timethat you spend with them, they
will remember this.
They will recreate those disheslong after you're gone, and
that is so important.
And it's not morbid to talkabout that, because I think that
(47:57):
what parents can do, it's notjust that you give them enough
money for their trust fund andpay for their education.
The legacy you give them alsois about the food of their
grandparents, the stories of thefood eaten in your family.
That is also an important partof the legacy the food legacy.
Food eaten in your family thatis also an important part of the
legacy the food legacy.
Don't just leave them a trustfund.
Teach them about food.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
I feel like we could just press end on the record and
leave on that.
That was so powerful.
It's such a eye-opener forpeople and it's anti-cultural.
It's against the message thatculture is saying.
But I think it's an importantand a timely one, because our
families are in a state ofcrisis.
A little bit the modern-dayfamily, our relationships are
(48:40):
when it comes to connection andloneliness, and I think that's
an answer in so many ways ofcrisis.
A little bit the modern dayfamily, our relationships are
when it comes to connection andloneliness, and I think that's
an answer in so many ways right,yes, and I think food is a
language of love.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's the most personal thing that you can do
for someone, and the you know Ioften say this to people who are
like, oh, I don't want to cookand it takes too much time.
I think just imagine that themost valuable ingredient you're
putting into a dish is your time, your touch, your sensibility,
your emotion.
Yeah, that is priceless.
(49:12):
Every ingredient you can buythere's a price to every
ingredient.
There's a price tag on it, butnot for you.
What a beautiful thing you cando for someone.
And I also tell everybody cookfor yourself.
What a beautiful thing you cando for someone.
And I also tell everybody cookfor yourself.
I do this as well.
If I'm alone, I'll open a boxof cereal and eat it, just
without milk, but just open itand eat it Because I think, oh,
(49:34):
why should I bother about myself?
Now, I don't.
I understand that we don't eveninvest in our own self, we
don't even heal ourselves.
Why are you not good enough?
You are enough, you are enough.
Cook for yourself, if it's thesimplest thing.
You know, in Monsoon I have adish which is an omelet curry.
It's just omelet and thencooked in this beautiful healing
(49:57):
gravy.
That's it.
If you don't have anything elsein your house, you've got
omelets.
Just make that.
It takes a few minutes.
Do this to yourself, do thisfor yourself, because we have
forgotten in the East, food wasmedicine.
That's how everything that theyate in our ancestors were all
(50:18):
about.
How good is this for me?
Is it going to heal?
We eat seasonally, you know,during winter you have things
that warm your body.
During summer, you have thingsthat are light and easy to
digest.
Everything was about your bodyand helping your body and
nourishment.
It was all about nourishingyour body, healing your body.
(50:39):
Today, it's all aboutimpressing people and what is
trendy, and this is like themost kind of Instagrammable
something and some of it.
You look at it and think, wow,you know, this looks great, but
why will you eat it?
It doesn't make sense, youdon't know.
Because it's just that today wevalue different things and, yes
, there's a place for, you know,outrageous things and there's a
(51:01):
place for experimental.
So I'm not that kind of personwho will think, oh, you know
outrageous things and there'splace for experimental.
So I'm not that kind of personwho think, oh, you know, I don't
want to.
I want to be like cooking liketheir grandmother.
No, we've all moved on.
The world is different, butthere are things.
You don't throw the baby outwith the bath water just because
you moved on and there aredifferent cooking techniques and
different ingredients.
I think there's still somevalue in the history of the food
(51:25):
of your own family.
You should not lose that.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
So much to consider there, and I think it's a very
timely message in culture.
Right now we're speaking thesame language, because I really
believe that food should becelebrated, that we need to
return to slow food instead offast food, and I mean that in
the way that we prepare it likeslow cooking technique.
Yeah, and I really do believethat food is medicine.
I think that as a culture we'reshifting back in that direction
(51:53):
.
We've lost.
We lost it for a while, butthere's a lot of empower.
I mean talk about empowerment.
There's a lot of empowermentthere that that food is.
Food can be medicine.
If we take the freightedvegetables because some customer
wants it.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
The customer is not always right If you do not.
Most of what we have on ourmenu is local local in England,
but also what we can get fromEurope which is not crossing
oceans, and it is beautiful food.
What is seasonal, what is local, has almost a sweetness hard to
describe, but there is asweetness.
(52:46):
And I'm not doing fusion food.
I'm doing very traditionalIndian food.
I'm using ingredients and Iplan my menu based on what is
seasonal, what can I get closeby, and it's not a compromise.
It actually liberates me fromthinking that something has.
I know there's no trickle-downeffect for farmers.
My father is a farmer.
(53:06):
I know what's happening.
I'm happy that there's a localfarmer.
Someone is benefiting on theland where my restaurant is
being local.
This has now become a trendything about the terrier and
you're talking about local food.
It's our moral responsibility.
When your money is coming fromthe land where you are, please
(53:27):
make sure your ingredients dotoo, that the farmer is
benefiting too, Because don'tthink the farmer oceans away is
benefiting.
Many middlemen are benefiting,Usually men who are benefiting,
and it's not the farmer.
The farmer doesn't benefit.
So I think we also have a moralduty and a responsibility when
we eat and I don't think ifevery household made some small
(53:49):
changes to the way they eat, theripple effect will be huge.
Where it's come from, that hasnot flown in from Peru.
Why do I want to eat out ofseason you know asparagus when
(54:13):
British asparagus in season isamazing?
Let me wait.
Let me learn again how to waitfor a produce to be available
because of the season.
Let me teach myself patience.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's something that I think the modern day shopper,
consumer, doesn't even thinkabout, because we've been so
removed from that way of lifefor so long.
Yeah, and everything is clingfirmed.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
I think 30, 35 years ago, when I came to this country
, I was so shocked when I saw abunch of bananas and someone had
put a sticker on each banana.
Bananas grow in our backyard inIndia.
I was staring and thinking, wow, someone has there's a name of
a company on each banana.
Bananas grow in our backyard inIndia.
I was staring and thinking, wow, someone has there's a name of
a company on each each bananahad a sticker on it.
My mind was blown.
(54:51):
I couldn't believe.
This is how, then, everythingwas wrapped and everything looks
so beautiful.
It was as if you know, youdon't want to cook anything.
Nothing.
Everything was so perfect.
It felt like everything wasfake.
It's like the kind of play foodthat I used to see, you know,
in a shop.
Food looked like play foodbecause everything was shiny and
glinting and perfect.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
I feel like that's a whole other conversation.
Huh the reality of the food inour grocery stores, wow.
Well, I want to very quicklypivot and talk about the
upcoming release of your newbook.
You've referenced it a fewtimes.
Monsoon, when I was first sentthe book, I said I feel like
this book should come with ashelf because it is so beautiful
.
I think it needs to be ondisplay all the time.
(55:36):
Thank, you.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
I love it.
I love the color.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
It's stunning and everything about it.
I'm very much a design person.
I love design, I love the color.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It's stunning and everything about it.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
I'm very much a design person.
I love design, I loveintentionality.
I mean the texture of the book,cover the colors, and then you
open it up.
The photography is stunning,the flavors are inviting, all of
it.
So what?
Maybe did we not talk aboutthat.
You want people to know aboutthe book did we not talk about
(56:04):
that?
Speaker 2 (56:04):
you want people to know about the book.
The one thing I want them toknow about the monsoon is that
it is really a kind of a doorwayinto the simplicity of
flavoring in our food, becauseoften people have this
misconception that Indian foodis complicated to cook, that
there are a lot of things goingon.
Yes, there are a lot of thingsgoing on, but there are many
dishes that we make which areabsolutely delicious, full of
(56:28):
flavor, very quick to make andthat they're actually good for
you.
And the fact that I've tried toweave in all these flavors,
because in Ayurveda you have allthese six things that you want
to combine.
It's like an orchestra.
Each flavor is an instrument,so sweet, sour, savory, bitter
all of them combined make aperfect meal.
(56:49):
And the book is really acompass on how you get all these
things together and I really Ihope people will buy the book,
cook from the book, and thattheir world view of Indian food
will change, because it reallyis about how simple our food is,
but also how layered andhealing and satisfying it is.
(57:13):
I'm super excited about thebook and, yes, the book looks so
beautiful.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
It is, and it's definitely a lot to celebrate
for your entire team behind itand we're very excited for you.
Can you remind me of the exactdate of the launch?
I know we're in pre-order rightnow, but when is the date of?
Speaker 2 (57:31):
the launch in Australia, america, canada, uk
all on the same day, just beforeInternational Women's Day, and
(57:54):
pre-ordering the book reallyhelps the author because that's
so important.
So if people can pre-order thatwould be great.
But I just hope that peoplewill cook from the book, buy the
book and cook for it, becauseit really is.
It just really kind of makes,brings some joy into your
kitchen.
I think a lot of us have thiswhole thing of cooking as a
chore.
I know that's not how you think, but a lot of people see it as
something domestic slavery.
(58:15):
Oh my God, I've got to cook.
Oh my God.
It's just an opportunity foryou to slow down and do
something that will make youhappy.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
Your family, your loved one, make them happy.
I just wanted for a second.
We're going to switch in aminute to I end all of my
conversations with the samethree questions, but I just
wanted to stop and I was justthinking how do you pronounce
your name?
How do you like it pronounced?
Asma, Asma, so little Asma thatfelt like an outsider and maybe
(58:50):
that she didn't have a place.
Just told me that she has abook coming out in multiple
continents.
That is, goodness gracious.
What a story.
What a story.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
And for anyone who's going through this darkness and
being in that difficult space.
See, I made it, you're going tomake it too.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you for trusting mewith your story today.
That was a really powerfulconversation.
I want to end just with somefun questions that we end all of
the conversations with, and I'dlove to hear your answers too.
The first one is something thatyou have eaten recently and
loved.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
I recently had squid in a really kind of small little
place in Chinatown and, oh myGod.
Usually I always think, oh myGod, I don't like it.
I just loved it Salt and peppersquid.
It was so good.
Speaker 3 (59:41):
I've never heard that answer and I've also never
personally tried it.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
It's good, okay, I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 3 (59:48):
Okay, that's a good answer.
It's a good, unique one.
How about something you foundto be beautiful lately?
Speaker 2 (59:59):
I've seen birds and I've just realized that a lot of
birds live on the tree outsidemy house.
I found this to be anincredible experience, also very
, very fascinating, because Ikind of I wish I knew what they
were saying to each other, andI've.
Only now, recently, suddenly, Ifound I find birds fascinating
(01:00:24):
because they have wings and theycan fly, they can go anywhere,
but they stay in the same place,and this is just something that
intrigues me that they don't go.
They stay on that same treeevery day.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Wow, well, that's deep, that's very deep, that is.
I've never thought about it inthat way.
Huh, goodness, and I see thekind of like connection with
maybe your dad, right, firstpointing in the direction of
birds.
Yeah, wow, well, last but notleast, what is something that
(01:00:59):
you've discovered lately thatyou think everyone should know
about?
It could be a purchase onAmazon.
It could be a show that you'rewatching, Anything random that
you think someone might enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I have, of course, I'm 55, but I am now absolutely
convinced that the music of the80s is incredible.
If you're very young and youhave not listened to Prince and
you haven't listened to GeorgeMichael and you haven't listened
to Whitney Houston, please,please, get this music.
Listen to it, because there issomething awesome about the
(01:01:35):
music of the 80s.
I'm obsessed with that, andit's not just because, of course
, it's the soundtrack of my life, but I just think that a lot of
younger people have kind of notunderstood what the 80s were,
and I just want them to comelisten to this music of the 80s.
So it's not something you canbuy, but, yes, listen to it.
(01:01:55):
Listen to the music of the 80s.
Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
That is such a fun one.
That's a really good one.
Again, I'm not sponsored byPeloton.
I probably should at this point.
Have you ever ridden before?
Have you ever tried a ride?
Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
I have, but I have now been cycling in my own house
.
I've got a not as fancy asyours, the one behind you, but I
have, and I surprised at howgood I felt.
Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
My knees feel.
Yeah, it does, and I've alwaysbeen skeptical and I've just
recently been cycling and I just, yeah, it actually hurts a lot
when you do it and everythingaches when you get off.
But then after a while you feelreally good.
Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
The one thing about the Peloton I was skeptical for
years.
My husband was too.
We found one on FacebookMarketplace for next to nothing.
Someone was selling it, so itwas secondhand, and the classes
just add so much joy to my daybecause they're themed.
So, like you were saying,they'll have like an eighties
ride or you know, for me it'slike the early two thousands and
it's just so fun.
So, as you said that, I waslike I'll make my next ride in
(01:02:59):
eighties ride in your honor.
Yeah, make your next one aneighties ride.
Well, thank you so much againfor trusting me with this part
of your story.
We are so excited about theupcoming release of your book.
We will include a link topre-order if you're listening
ahead of the release, or toorder whenever you're listening
in the show notes.
You could buy it there.
And where do you want to sendpeople to follow along for more?
Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
So please follow me on Instagram.
I'm Asma Khan, london, becausethat's where all the monsoon
stories come, but also all thestories about life and love and,
most importantly, food so good.
Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Well, guys, I hope that you enjoyed this
conversation as much as I did,and we will see you next week.
Thank you, thank you.
If you talk to me for just a few minutes, you will
learn two things One, that myrecent obsession is the Peloton,
and two, that I love talkingall things about the royal
family.
With that we came to learnabout our new guest and our new
friend to the show, asma, andvery quickly there were a few
things that stood out about her.
(00:20):
The first the absolute stunningdesign of her cookbook.
It totally took my breath away.
And the second were her careerachievements, and I don't take
that lightly.
I was inspired by her simply byreading her bio, and it just
grew from there.
Guys, I didn't know exactlywhat to expect in this
conversation.
(00:41):
I knew that I would enjoy it,but I didn't know that it was
going to change my life.
There are a few people in mycareer that I feel are heroes in
the industry or deeplyinspiring to me, and after this
conversation and after learningmore about her, asma is one of
them for me.
If she is new to you, here is alittle bit more about her as
(01:02):
you get to know her.
A force in London's culinaryscene and an outspoken activist.
Indian-born Britishrestaurateur, asma Khan has
always been a disruptor.
Her Michelin Guide-nominatedrestaurant, best known for its
revolutionary, all-femalekitchen has become a favorite of
Hollywood A-listers, whilebeing an oasis and a safe place
for women Through servingauthentic homestyle food.
(01:25):
In the heart of London, herrestaurant has reached to the
top of the food scene, while atits core retaining Khan's
unwavering commitment tograssroots social and
environmental causes.
Time magazine recognized her asone of 2024's 100 most
influential people in the worldfor her pioneering business
ethos.
She is the chef advocate forthe UN World Food Program and a
(01:48):
member of the Mayor of London'sBusiness Advisory Board.
Khan has been awarded honoraryfellowships by Queen's College,
oxford University and afellowship at King's College
London, where she also holds aPhD in British constitutional
law.
Khan was the first British chefto be profiled by Netflix's
Emmy-nominated Chef's Table andhas appeared in shows such as
(02:11):
Celebrity, masterchef and TopChef.
She's currently working onTiffin Stories, a six-part
series on food and memories.
Asma is an award-winningcookbook author.
Her third cookbook, monsoon,due to reach actually, as we're
reading this, it is officiallylive now.
It is on the market, ready foryou to get your copy of it In
(02:31):
2025,.
Khan became I want to make sureI'm saying this right Sodexo
Stop Hunger Foundation's firstpatron.
You are going to absolutelyadore her as much as I did.
I cannot wait to give you thisconversation, but before we do,
I have to tell you aboutsomething that I have been
absolutely loving lately.
So you guys know most of youknow if you're a longtime
(02:54):
listener of the show I amworking from home, working on
the podcast, watching Wesley,kind of all at the same time,
and it feels like my days startto kind of blur my habits, blur.
It all just kind of meshestogether and I have been trying
to be more intentional abouttaking moments of rest for
myself, of taking care formyself uh, taking care of myself
(03:16):
so I could feel just a littlebit better in my skin and a
little bit more rejuvenatedthroughout the day.
And, guys, if you have neverused Primally Pure, I need you
to know about them.
I have been a longtime fan sincegoodness, they started I can't
think of what year that is, butprobably 10 years and it started
with their non-toxic,aluminum-free deodorant and it
(03:38):
has grown from there.
They recently have launchedproducts like a coffee shower
scrub and their everything bomb.
Everyone is hearing about beeftallow and your skincare and I
am absolutely nuts about it.
So if you are looking for waysto pamper yourself throughout
the day and in a way that isnon-toxic and actually health
(04:01):
forward for your body.
It supports your wellness.
It supports, supports, um,detoxifying all of these things
that we are hearing about um inthe media.
Now, finally, you can have aproduct without any kind of
compromise all the luxury, theincredible smells, the
incredible moisture, um, andfeel so, so good about it.
(04:22):
So head on over toPrimallyPurecom.
Use the code GATHER G-A-T-H-E-Rat checkout for a percentage
off, and whether you want tostart with a stick of their
famous deodorant that I promiseyou works, or spoil yourself
with one of their serums orscrubs, you will be so glad that
(04:42):
you did.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Hi, I'm.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Katie, a hospitality educator and the host of Making
Room by Gather podcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness andwith it I was given a choice to
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it, and for me
(05:06):
that meant two things that Ineeded the healing to learn how
to accept an invitation and theconfidence to know how to extend
one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through Making Room by Gather,you will hear conversations from
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
(05:26):
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
the table, but can I tell yousomething?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Okay, my goodness, I have been so excited for this
conversation.
I'm a bit of a Londonenthusiast, a UK enthusiast.
I have yet to go.
I've spent quite a bit of timein Europe.
I've been to France and Spain,italy, but I haven't made my way
to the UK yet and you werecalling in from there.
So I'm a little bit, a littlebit jealous, but so glad that
you're here, that you're here.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Thank you, and you need to come to London.
London has.
It's just a buzzing place.
I mean, if weather is not thething for you.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Everything else is fabulous in this place.
How, how common like how oftenis it rainy?
Is that just a daily part oflife?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
No, it's not that bad .
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It doesn't rain all the time, but it's just very
random.
It rains and it doesn't rainlike down.
So you've had an umbrella,you're still soaked because the
rain is like coming at an angle.
It's very cold rain as well,and also because I compared to
the rain that we have where Igrew up in India.
The rain here is like a coldshower.
(06:44):
It's always cold, Even insummer.
The rain feels cold.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
It's funny I should know to talk about this later.
We lived in Thailand for awhile, so we had a monsoon
season in Thailand, and so it'slike you went from one monsoon
to another.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Well, I might add little snippets of London
questions throughout ourconversation, but I want to
start off by getting to know youa little bit better.
Your background is so oh mygosh so dynamic.
You have so many differentparts of your career that I'd
love to cover, but first let'stalk about a little bit of your
childhood in India.
We've yet to have a guestraised in India, and so I want
(07:30):
to hear from you whatever youwant us to know about.
What role did life in Indiaplay with your career in?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
food.
India is fundamental to who Iam the food I cook, the way I
speak, and also it is like whereI get all my nourishment from,
for everything I do.
So even though I'm oceans away.
My childhood was so incrediblethat everything that I'm doing
(07:56):
today is because of the way thatI was raised and the city where
I grew up.
I think India is probably achanged place today from the
time that I was growing up.
I grew up in an India wherethere was no mobile phones, no
television.
You got very little cinema thatyou could go and see.
(08:18):
There was, of course, bollywood, which is our local cinema,
which was great and exciting,but at least in Bengal we didn't
get to see a lot of Hollywood.
And that actually was the mostbeautiful way to grow up,
because we played on the streets.
I love cricket.
(08:38):
I was allowed to play on thestreets with strangers, which is
interesting because people arequite strict about who you can
go out with and meet and playwith, and there were lots of
boys, who were all from allkinds of backgrounds, asked to
play cricket.
And I went to the mostincredible school, which no one
asked you who your father was.
(08:58):
They didn't ask you what yourbackground was.
So it was a school where we allwent wearing uniform and there
was no way of showing whetheryou were wealthy, whether you
were poor.
We were all in there and wewere trying to learn.
I know that I'm probablydescribing an ideal world.
I also know that that world nolonger exists, but my childhood
(09:22):
was very, very carefree, full offood and laughter, incredible
monsoons, but also a lot ofpoetry and music and fragrance
of flowers, that I rememberEvery kind of occasion and
festivities, that there werealways flowers.
(09:43):
And if anyone has seen even avideo clip of an Indian wedding,
I come from a huge clan, soentire December from my
childhood, four people weregetting married, so you went
from one henna night to asinging night, to a actual
wedding.
So, yeah, that my childhood waslike a dream come true, because
it was all full of just a lotof food and a lot of very nice.
(10:07):
You know, I mean my entire kindof all my cousins I was very
close to, so a lot of solidarityamong my cousins.
Not so great when it came tothe adults, who I was nobody's
favorite, but that's all right,you can't have everything and I
think that I was always theoutsider, for the kind of the
(10:29):
adults and the powerful peoplealways felt that I was not
someone who fit it in.
I probably didn't fit in, but Isaw beauty in everything and I
loved the food.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, asma, I was going to take this in another
direction, but I want to playoff of that comment that you
just made that you were no one'sfavorite.
What role do you think thatplayed in your adulthood, now
and your career?
Do you think that it impactedit or affected it?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
It is the fire to push myself to do something, to
break barriers and also to bebrave enough to do what I did
without fear to go into anindustry where you didn't see
anyone like me at all.
I'm talking about, you know, 10years ago.
(11:23):
No one looked like me, no onesounded like me, no one had a
name like me.
I'm a Muslim immigrant.
I'm in my 40s.
When I went to the bank toborrow money to open a tea shop
below my house, they laughed atme and said what a lovely hobby,
mrs Khan, I will never get.
I cried all the way home and Iswore that day I will become the
(11:46):
name that every woman can sayIn her 40s.
I was told to stay in my lane,but this I remember from my
childhood.
I was told to stay in my lanebecause people always saw me as
the outsider not quite fittingin with this beautiful, fair,
slim, princess kind of look thatall my cousins had.
(12:07):
I stood out so much because ofthe way I looked and what my
interests were.
I hated dressing up.
I wasn't willing to playprincess.
Yes, I'm from a royal family,but I didn't want to play
princess.
I should have been allowed to.
You know I want and I my entirechildhood I wanted to be a
pirate.
You know I want and I my entirechildhood I wanted to be a
pirate.
I wanted to steal from the richand give to the poor.
(12:28):
My dream was to be a pirate.
I wanted to sail off into theocean.
So that's not what princesseswant to do in my family.
So I think that being from the,you know, being on the fringes
of what was acceptable, I camein again being on the fringes,
being an immigrant, being older,not having a godfather in the
(12:49):
industry, not going through theranks and having the network.
I was unafraid because that'show I lived my life, being
unafraid because I was alwaysthe outsider, even in my
extended clan, I was never theinsider and my childhood gave me
the tools to deal with life asI faced it when I came to this
(13:13):
country for the first time, andI'm grateful that you shared
that part of your story becauseI think that it's something that
a lot of people could say metoo and I think that people
think it disqualifies them fromexcellence, from life, from
(13:34):
advancement in their career.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
And part of my story is my family moved a lot.
I've shared little bits of this.
I was bullied ruthlessly andfor a period of my life it
definitely affected my sense ofself-worth it totally did.
But then I realized, oh mygoodness, that actually, after
I've done all the heart work,the healing work you know, to
work through it, I realized, wow, I actually could see people in
(13:57):
such a new depth than I wouldhave been able to before.
I know what people need, and soit ended up being a gift that I
didn't necessarily want, but agift nonetheless, right.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Um, it does it.
I think that the sad thing isthat people who went through the
bullying that you did, or thekind of marginalization and the
uh, the kind of othering that Idid, this is happening to girls
today, right now, and if wedon't speak up, the problem is
that they may not be as lucky asyou and me to come out of this.
(14:33):
We come out of fire glisteninglike gold.
We go through these trials andtribulations and we are
victorious, but there are veryfew of us.
It is our moral duty to talkabout these things, because you
don't know who's listening.
You don't know who knows aboutsomeone who's going through this
(14:53):
fire and they can step in,because it is so important to
know that you're not alone andalso to understand that what is
happening right now is not goingto dictate what happens to the
rest of your life.
You have to find the tools toovercome it.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I love the way you worded that part.
You have to find the tools.
It's an active process, right?
And so you have to firstrecognize like wow, I don't want
to stay like this forever.
And then it requires a step ofaction, which I often say.
It could be clumsy, it couldcome with a lot of tears, like
you were saying that part ofyour story that you went to the
bank to get a loan and you criedon the way home and look at you
(15:36):
.
Now you know it's, but you haveto.
You have to recognize like itmight be, might come with some
growing pains and some right, itcould be a little.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, it is hard and the thing is that you know, for,
like you, you've just you knowyou're talking about how you
constantly moved.
For me, my move was reallysignificant and, you know,
dramatic, it was an uprooting.
But even when there are nogreat moves, even in the on the
street on which you were bornand you're living and you went
to school, you can go throughthe same feelings that you went,
(16:07):
moving around me, moving acrossoceans.
That's the frightening thingthat you can still be in your
same street and pass everyfamiliar tree and recognize
everybody's door and know whoeverybody is.
Yet you can be an outsider.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, I feel like this conversation is going to
take a little bit of a differentturn, in a good way.
Because this conversation is sorich, I guess I'll pull on it
just for a second.
So you said that you could youknow talking about people that
are outsiders in theircommunities.
If we are, hmm, what way do Iwant to take that?
(16:48):
I guess, if you are someonethat feels like an outsider in
your community, what is yourencouragement to her?
You speak a lot to the heart ofwomen and so I guess, if we're
talking to someone today whofeels like an outsider and maybe
is at the very beginning ofrecognizing it and taking steps,
what do you say to her?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
The first thing I would tell her is that she's
good enough.
Do not allow someone else toput a badge on you.
Do not allow them to put youinto a box.
Tell yourself you're thecaptain of your ship, you will
sail and you will go where youwant.
No one gets on your ship andtells you what to do.
This is very, very important.
You write your own story.
(17:27):
You are the heroine of yourlife and the problem is that too
many of us don't evenarticulate.
We cannot say it.
Go to the mirror and say it toyourself.
I am the heroine of my life.
I am going to tell my storyBecause the problem is the
moment you allow people to giveyou the impression that you stay
in your lane, that you do nothave the right to move lanes,
(17:49):
that you're not right At 40, oh,you can't do this.
I mean really significant womenwho were in the industry, in
hospitality, told me this that,Asma, you're going to fail.
You have to have professionalmale chefs, experienced people,
to come in.
You cannot run this all-femalekitchen with mothers and
grandmothers.
You are going to fail.
In my heart I was screaming I'mgoing to be victorious.
(18:14):
I'm going to win.
I will be the greatest there'sever been, Not driven out of
arrogance, but I had to tellmyself, so I did not crumble.
But I had to tell myself, so Idid not crumble.
It's really important If youdon't believe in yourself, why
will anyone else believe in you?
It's really important tobelieve.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
When you said not in arrogance.
It's so funny.
I was just thinking of acomment that I wanted to make
when you were finished in thatsame um, that same track, um, I
remember very, very early onwhen I had this dream for a
business that I haven't yetreached you know, I'm still in
the process, right and I heardthis story of an Olympic
marathon runner, and when he gothis gold medal, they asked him
(18:57):
how does this feel?
Does this surprise you?
And he said no.
He said it doesn't, it doesn'tsurprise me, something along
those lines, because he knew it.
That was always the end insight.
He knew that he was alwaysworking towards it, right, and
so it didn't surprise him.
Now, I told a few people thatstory and I was met with
comments like oh, isn't thatlike prideful, or isn't that
arrogance?
It's like no, no, no, it's just.
(19:17):
I mean, what would you callthat?
What's the alternative thatwe're talking about?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I think that this is a problem, this imposter
syndrome that everybody feelsthat you know a lot of women
have who are successful.
Whenever anyone asks me, do youhave imposter syndrome, I stare
at them.
I say no, why will I?
And this person who said thatare you?
When they asked him, are yousurprised?
You got the gold and said no,I'm not.
The hours of training thatperson probably went through all
(19:43):
the sacrifices they did, fromwhat they eat to not seeing
family, to going out and running, whether it was sunshine or
rain, the heartbreak and themuscle pain and all the buildup.
Four years they have trainedfor that few seconds on the
track and they got the gold.
And yes, I absolutely thinkthat person.
(20:04):
When they said that I'm notsurprised, it is their inner
belief, it was the belief ofthat person who got that gold,
not that actual person.
And yes, so they're notsurprised because you need to
imagine yourself victorious.
I say this to all women when Imeet them and they say I want to
do this, I think I said justvisualize yourself at the very
(20:28):
top that you've got there.
If you do not visualize ityourself, how are you going to
get there?
And so when this personprobably visualized that gold
medal for all the hard, toughtraining that he did.
So, yeah, I don't think it'sarrogance, it is, it's a reality
and the thing is that almost weare.
(20:49):
We are expected not to saythese things because it's
misunderstood.
But we don't see the crosssomeone is carrying.
You don't know the burdens andthe hurdles on which they fell
and bled those scars that Icarry today, despite all my
(21:10):
success.
It's not that I don't feel thescars.
I see them.
I feel them.
It has been decades.
They don't disappear.
So it is an emotional thingPeople should be, I think
open-hearted and talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I also I don't know if you feel this way too.
I've been reflecting on this alot lately.
People love connectingthemselves to people and stories
once they've arrived atwhatever the goal is, but the
middle people don't know what todo with.
People.
Kind of like in the middleright, like there's maybe
judgment misunderstanding.
Do you feel that way?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
people kind of like in the middle right, Like
there's maybe judgmentmisunderstanding.
Do you feel that way?
Do you know what I'm saying?
No, no, absolutely, absolutely.
I mean I I lost all the friendsthat I had in that middle time
who were there for me, andsuddenly not there for me, this
struggling period of of beingincomplete because you haven't
(22:10):
got there.
I used to be very inspired bywhat my father used to tell me.
He used to take me to thebalcony and the roof, wherever,
depending on the weather, and heused to make me listen to the
birds before dawn and he told meAsma, you are that bird.
You are telling everybody dawnis coming, in absolute, total
(22:36):
darkness.
That bird was singing andtelling you about light.
That middle stage that youdescribed is that.
But as you and I both know, andas everybody knows, day will
always follow night.
You must believe that day willcome, but that complete darkness
before that light comes, Ithink women who have made it if
(23:00):
it is a colleague of yours orsomeone in your family or friend
, be that bird, tell them, singto them, tell them about light.
And the problem is that thatmiddle stage where you are not
you started something but youhaven't made it is the darkest,
hardest part, and I'm so gladyou raised this, because no one
(23:21):
wants to talk about it.
They all want to talk aboutyour success and they want to
talk about you.
Know why did you have this idea?
What is your kind of?
And everybody's talking tothese kids who want to be techie
and want to do stuff, but thisin-between hard grind of
nothingness, of darkness, it'sas if it doesn't exist.
But most of our success isbecause we handle that darkness.
(23:44):
We handle that nothingness inour lives and that's how we got
out into the light.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
It's not the attractive part of the dreaming,
creative entrepreneurconversation, right.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
No, it's because there's no glory in it, there's
no story in it and this is likeit's not attractive, it's not
exciting.
And also I think thatunfortunately for women and a
lot of women, this is the partwhere they can't communicate
with each other, with otherpeople.
There's no mentoring andthere's no support in that very
(24:20):
difficult stage and this is.
I do a lot of this work with alot of women in food.
I have an open door and I replyto all my DMs on my social
media.
I reply to women, and a lot ofthem practically from around the
world.
I take the time because Iunderstand this is their
darkness.
They're waiting for their dawn.
(24:40):
I'll be their friend, I'll bethe bird for them at that point.
I do a lot of it, but I thinkall of us should be doing it.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, yeah, wow, my goodness, I'm just thinking
through that.
It's a rare gift and sobeautiful that you I don't know
give so much of your time tothat and to those women.
I don't want to make it aboutme, but you were talking about
how your father put you on thebalcony listening to the birds.
My grandpa had a, so we livedwith him for quite a few years
(25:10):
of my life and in the morningwe'd be sitting and having
breakfast before I went toschool, and I'm totally going to
butcher it.
But he would say this Italianphrase like e solo muoiesh, and
it meant the sun's.
He said, look, catalina, e solomuoiesh.
I'm mixing up my words, but,catalina, the sun's coming up,
the sun's coming up, and I wouldget so frustrated with him.
(25:35):
I was like, of course, none ofthe sun's coming up.
I know it's coming up, but Irealized later in life what he
was telling me.
He would say, despite,everything else going on.
the sun's coming up.
Look, it's a new day.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's a new day, no, and this is what your
grandfather, my father, thiskind of souls of wisdom are so
important.
But not everybody has the goodfortune.
You could sit with yourgrandfather and have breakfast,
I could sit and talk to myfather, but for those who do not
have anyone around them, who isthat kind of that mentor, the
(26:05):
anchor?
It's tough.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
We've talked a little bit about mentorship on this
show and how to be mentored, howto find a mentor.
Your perspective, I think, is alittle bit unique with
identifying people in this kindof like messy middle gray area.
So if you are someone, maybe inseasons like you or I, who
(26:29):
understand what that's like, whounderstand that, how can we be
that for other people?
Do you have?
Like, how could we replicatethat in our own communities?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I think you know there's no correct way and
there's no kind of, and I thinkthat it's a learning process.
But as long as you try, youknow.
I think that that's the biggestthing that you can learn along
the way.
I know I've made lots ofmistakes along my way.
Somehow or the other I've stillsucceeded.
It's not that I got everythingperfect.
(26:59):
I failed, I made bad choices, Isuffered.
We all went through COVID for arestauranteur.
It destroyed me.
But I think that it's a processof actually, first of all,
forgiving yourself and coming topeace with who you are.
(27:19):
Only then can you be of help toothers.
I think that's really important, for if you really want to be
someone who can support others,I think you need to be very,
very clear of where you are inlife, who you are.
Make peace with everythingthat's gone wrong in your life.
(27:40):
Then you are able to become.
Your shoulders are big enoughto carry people through.
Till you are not at that point,I think that you you can try,
but you may not be as effective.
I'm not saying that women whonot got their house in order
cannot do it, but I'm justthinking that those that have
(28:02):
even more important for themstep up because you've sorted
out things in your own life.
You emotionally now mature andand emotional maturity is
nothing to do with age.
Yeah, you know, I've talked tosome very young kids who've, you
know, given me some reallyimportant lessons in life, and I
think that that it's reallythat that I think that's just my
(28:22):
opinion.
I think that you need to bestable inside you to be able to
carry the burdens of others andtheir grief.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Powerful perspectives .
I had a pastor at a church thatI went to as a young kid that
always told us to lead in ourrelationships with our scars,
yeah, and there's a connectionthat happens there and a
relatability, and so I thinkit's beautiful.
It's beautiful what you offerand you bring to the table.
Well, we're going to shift thisconversation just for a second.
(28:55):
I think we're going to kind oflike ebb and flow from like the
heartfelt to the food scene,which I love.
If you were to talk to me for15 minutes, that's what you'd
get anyways.
We'd get heartfelt and food inevery conversation I have, and
so I feel like the British foodscene gets a bit of a bad rap.
(29:16):
I feel like in America at least,you talk about England, UK,
whatever, and all you hear islike bangers and mash and that's
all.
It is potatoes and sausage.
But you provide such a fresh Idon't know offer to the scene.
But to start, I would love tohear from you what do you wish
people knew about?
The reality of the food scenein the UK?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The reality of the food scene in England is not
just bangers and mash.
That is also there Because ofcolonialism and the history of
the spice trade and everythingthat happened.
What you get in England,especially what you get in
London, is the most incrediblearray of food of people of
(30:03):
different ethnicities,absolutely fabulouson is
definitely the food capital ofthe world because from indian to
chinese to japanese and youknow, from even kind of really
kind of regional cuisines, youget all of this because we've
had people from everywheresettled here.
And everyone's favorite in thiscountry I mean it's not a dish
(30:29):
that I make or recognize chickentikka masala.
Of course you know this is aBritish dish, I mean it is.
You know chicken tikka masalacame up in this country.
We don't even have it in India.
We don't know what it is.
So it was literally a dish thatwas developed in this country.
And you know I think that'swhat's so exciting about London
that on the same street the kindof variety of food you get and
(30:53):
the quality of the food you getis at a different level, and you
know.
So even things like you knowmost people don't know there's a
restaurant on Edgeware Road.
It's called Hijazi Corner.
It has the only Saudirestaurant.
You've got Afghan food, you'vecantonese food in chinatown.
(31:14):
Then you have a two michelinstar chinese place, uh called
you know it's avon, wherechinese food is taken to a level
which is just mind-blowing.
So from really high, finedining of of ethnic food to
really kind of soul satisfyingyou know food that you know you
can go to an Afghan place holein the wall and just get the
most beautiful food, london isthe most exciting place to come
(31:38):
if you love food.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I you are the first person I've ever like.
I'm so thankful for that freshperspective.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That's so, that's so exciting and that sounds like my
scene, my goodness, yeah, andand the great thing is that
london is not it's sprawling,but it's not it's you can
actually get around.
You know, we don't drive a lot.
I'll be used public transport.
Everything is accessibleeverywhere you can go and you
can literally eat the world inthe city.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
That sounds like incredible content to capture.
I'm just picturing a videoeating my way through one.
That sounds incredible.
I know that everyone there'sdifferent perceptions around,
like Meghan Markle and herinfluence in the community, but
she was my first exposure thecookbook that she came out with,
um to the diverse, diverse foodscene.
(32:33):
Um, but yeah, that's so.
That's so exciting, goodness.
Um, this is also silly and Ilive in a very, very small house
right now, and so I have myPeloton bike behind me and I
take I take a lot of the PelotonUK classes.
Do you know where the studio is?
Have you seen it?
I take a lot of the Peloton UKclasses.
Do you know where the studio is?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Have you seen it?
I think yes, it's in CoventGarden right.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I think there used to be one in Covent Garden.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Is that close to it?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I had moved to Covent Garden during COVID, so that's
what I thought.
I think that there was a studiothere Is that close to the food
scene at all?
Yes, of course it's at the veryheart of the river there as
well, but London, you don't needto go far, there's exciting
food in every corner I'mpicturing.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I'm like, okay, I can come, I could take a Peloton
class shower up, eat my waythrough yeah yeah, and then go
back to have another class soyou can eat literally anything
and everything you want, oh, mygoodness.
Well, let's talk about yourrestaurant.
So you referenced this a littlebit earlier and I knew what you
were talking about because I'velearned about you, but I know
(33:44):
listeners your story might benew to them.
So I love people that live lifeon purpose.
I love intentionality, I lovepeople that are charting a new
path in their industries and intheir lives, their homes, and
this is very much how you runyour business and your team.
So I would love to know well,actually, I think it's important
(34:05):
to say this because this wasthis is not a small
acknowledgement so you werelisted as one of Time Magazine's
most influential people, whichI wanted to celebrate, because
since I was a little kid, Iremember I was like I want to be
on the 30 under 30.
That was a big thing for me andwhether or not I ever get on
(34:26):
that list in my life, I alwayslike to celebrate when people
are, because it's a hugeaccomplishment.
But talk to us about yourunique approach.
What's unique about it in yourwords?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, this times 100, .
You know people, not women.
And what is exciting was, as apioneer, that was a category in
which I was listed.
I am a pioneer because in myrestaurant, which is of course
female-owned, is an all-femalekitchen.
We everybody, when they talkabout, oh, who's the best cook,
(35:02):
my mom or my grandmom?
No one looks like a mom orgrandmom in the kitchen,
especially in Indian food almostcompletely dominated by men who
learned in culinary school.
I was unafraid to open arestaurant run by women who
didn't go to culinary school.
Some didn't even go to school,but they had life experience,
(35:23):
they had patience, they had love.
The most incredible food cameout of my kitchen.
We have a small menu.
Everything is made fresh.
I didn't make what is the usualsuspects of almost contrived
Indian food.
It's like saying I'm going togo and have Indian food.
It's like saying I'm going togo and have European food.
What are you going to have?
You're going to have pasta,you're going to have something.
(35:44):
India is huge but there's ageneric Indian food that was
created for convenience.
You know bulk cooking, masscooking.
Things have changed now veryrecently, but for a long time
people's perception of Indianfood was so kind of it was
almost kind of monotonous.
This is what they thought itwas.
I was absolutely determined notto bend to all these kind of
(36:09):
rules.
I opened a restaurant servinghome food made all by women.
We didn't make our food lookFrench, we didn't make our food
look like it was covered with anedible garden, we just served
it the way we eat.
It would be successful.
(36:32):
We were very successful.
But then, a few months after weopened, chef's Table came to me
and I didn't even you know Iwas so surprised when they did
so.
I was the first British cheffeatured on Chef's Table.
This is now six years ago.
It changed our lives.
It became a game changer.
You know, we had everyone fromDanny DeVito to Paul Rudd in our
restaurant, from Danny DeVitoto Paul Rudd in our restaurant,
and so it is still a destinationplace.
(36:55):
A lot of Americans come.
In fact, the sweetest thing iswhen you see delighted people
coming because their partner hassurprised them by flying them
in from New York for lunch atour restaurant.
It's still something that yousay wow, people come here.
People come there to getengaged, so because the story
resonates with a lot of womenand men.
So it's not an us and themsituation.
(37:17):
It is anyone who has ever beenon the outside and been
marginalized for whatever reason, from your, you know, from your
gender to your sexuality, toyour working class background,
to any of these things and yourethnicity, your religion, any of
these things and your ethnicity, your religion, any of these
reasons that made you feel likeyou didn't belong.
I am living proof that you canbe victorious.
(37:39):
And that's what my restaurantis.
It radiates Shakti strength ofwomen.
There's an open kitchen.
You see these grandmotherssinging and cooking and they're
smiling and they're clapping andthey're so happy.
It's a place of joy.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Wow Goodness.
Now I'm like how come we're notrecording there?
That's where I want to be rightnow.
Oh my goodness, wow, wow.
Well, I um I wanted to jumpback to your chicken tikka
masala.
That it's not authentic, I hadno idea.
I very much enjoy that dish.
I eat it at least once a month.
(38:15):
I love Indian flavor.
At least I thought I did.
So.
What are some of the morecommon authentic dishes?
I've had chicken jalfrezi.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yes, and chicken jalfrezi is a British-Indian
combination.
I mean, I wrote a recipe forthis to try and explain to
people how it was created inIndia by the chefs for British
families during the British Raj.
So when the British were, youknow, had colonized India,
(38:50):
british families lived and theystill had Sunday roast, the
leftovers of the Sunday roast.
So the chefs would pick out allthe meat that was left and then
they would fry it with peppers,with chilies and onions and eat
it.
Over time, as these familiesgot more used to spices, they
were very curious to see whatthese people were eating and it
became a dish that came to theirtable and then became a British
(39:11):
Indian restaurant favorite.
So almost every restaurant thathas Indian food in England
you'll have chal pharezi.
There.
Chal is chili pharezi is fake.
It is literally it wasleftovers of a roast dinner that
was made in a chal pharezistore.
So these kind of.
It's not that these dishes camefrom nowhere and are completely
, you know, fake, but theydidn't originate as an authentic
(39:35):
Indian dish.
So a lot of the recipes that Ido are of our recipes, of my
family.
There are things that peopleyou know will find familiar.
Still, there'll be somethingunfamiliar in it, but it's a
really kind of.
It's the layering of the spiceswhich has always been what I've
written about, and the joy ofeating and also being grateful
(39:57):
for ingredients.
We've all forgotten, you know,whenever a plate of food is put
in front of you, I think whatpeople do today is take out
their phone and take a picture.
We've forgotten to say grace.
We've forgotten to give thanksnot just for the person who
cooked the food, but for thefarmer who grew the ingredients.
We've we become consumers.
(40:18):
For us, food is almost like aright and I think that the
privilege that we can eat andthere are enough people not
eating in the world today, in Inour own communities, in our
midst.
You don't need to cross acountry and go somewhere else.
In your own space, there arepeople, there are children who
(40:38):
are going to bed hungry.
I think you know food ismagical.
Food is about love, but food isalso about reverence to being
grateful to the earth, andthat's where I come from.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So if someone is going, so I'm in America.
Have you spent much time in theStates?
I actually don't know.
I do travel, I don't spend alot of time, but yes, I've been
in and out quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Okay, so I'm not sure how similar the food scenes,
are the offerings, but ifsomeone were to go to an Indian
restaurant, maybe in their owncommunity, and order something
that were authentic, what wouldyou recommend they order?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I would really suggest that they order dal, the
lentils, but not the blacklentils, which is what you get
in every restaurant, but theyellow lentils which are like,
just so fragrant and healing.
That's something that, you know, we do very well.
And I love the way that we cookcauliflower.
Cauliflower, you know, with anykind of combination.
I love potatoes, you know.
(41:35):
We, we, I come from Bengal andwe do a potato with poppy seeds
I've got the recipe in Monsoonbut potatoes with anything, even
just, you know, even just driedcumin and dried chilies.
It's just the way that we eat.
Our food is always aboutlayering of spices and that is
what makes it really authentic.
And, of course, you know, Ithink parathas are amazing.
(41:58):
I love parathas, any kind ofparatha, whether it's stuffed or
it's plain great way toactually have bread in our
cuisine.
And, of course, rice.
I'm from Bengal.
We do rice in many, many ways.
And, of course, rice I'm fromBengal, we do rice in many, many
ways and every version of rice.
I'm grateful for every grain ofrice I eat.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Wow, we learned that in Thailand too, because they're
so connected to the farmer.
You drive two minutes in anydirection and you're seeing a
rice farm, a rice field, and sothere's a lot of connection.
You never leave a grain of riceon your plate.
No, you don't.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
And the thing that as a child, my mother used to
always tell me that you knowevery grain of rice has your
name on it, the farmer when theygrew it, and I used to feel
that respect that I would neverleave rice.
Rice is sacred to us and Ithink that in Monsoon I've
written the early bit of thebook.
It's about small techniques andhow you get the most out of
(42:57):
every ingredient.
That elevates your cooking,because we always try to get as
much as we could from what wehad.
It's a hot country.
You can't store stuff, so whenyou have something small, you
treat it with a lot of respect.
I mean, yes, there wererefrigeration, but only for the
wealthy for a long time and youknow people didn't.
There was long power cuts soyou don't have electricity so
(43:19):
you couldn't refrigerate things.
So we used everything up.
We didn't have things that westored in the fridge and use the
next day.
We never had freezers.
When I was growing up, thefirst time I saw a freezer in
Cambridge I thought there was adead body inside it, because in
all the horror movies or in themorgue when you open it someone
comes out of it I really thoughtoh my God, in the kitchen
(43:42):
they've got.
You know, it's like a freezer,like a morgue where you put a
whole dead body in it.
I'd never seen anything likethis, so it's just very
different.
Growing up in India, I've keptthat very true to what I do In
my restaurant, in my cookbooks.
It's this slow lane, it's thisjoy and, unlike what a lot of
(44:04):
people think that oh my God,there's so many spices.
You don't need to get all thespices, even just two spices.
You can make the most fabulousfood and I teach you how to do
it Because I think that's how weeat.
You never could keep 10 spicesin your house in Calcutta.
It's so humid, there areinsects and all kinds of things.
You never protect it and Ithink a lot of people who have
(44:25):
not been to India don'tunderstand this.
Yeah, I've actually.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I've only tried to make tikka masala one time.
Don't understand this.
Yeah, I've.
Actually, I've only tried tomake tikka masala one time and
that's the only Indian dish I'vetried.
But I do, whenever I'm cravingit, I go out and I order it.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Well, if you can make chicken tikka masala.
You can literally make anything.
Really, the beauty of Indianfood.
Yes, go and find recipes andembrace them, because this whole
the stage process of you knowhow we cook is very simple.
It's really about layeringspices and layering flavors at
(45:04):
different times and, yes,chicken tikka masala is not what
we eat, but similar to that,pretty much similar to that.
There are lots of other dishesand you can experiment and try
new things.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
I just want to cook with you.
That's what I want to do.
I want you to teach me.
I am very happy to teach you?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yes, one day One day.
Because I understand, I teach intwo ways.
I have the recipe there, butthroughout the recipe in my
books, I also am talking to you,I'm holding your hand, I'm
telling you what is it thatyou're looking out for?
That the oil is going to getthere.
This is the aroma that's comingout of that, because you must
(45:46):
cook with more than one sense.
You're not just reading andcooking.
You've got to be able to getthe aroma, the sound, the taste,
the layering that you adjustthat dish to your taste, so that
everything comes alive and yourpalate is alive and joyous.
It's really important to behappy when you're cooking.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
That's good.
I think a lot of people feelfrustrated that they're not
better cooks but they resort toa lot of prepared foods and they
miss cooking with all of theirsenses.
And that's where you learn.
That's where you learn We'veheard that a lot from past
guests that you know parents ofsome of our guests when they
were younger, having them tasterecipes and say what is this
missing?
You know like, smell it, whatis it missing?
(46:27):
Taste it, what is it missing?
Speaker 2 (46:28):
And that's what I'm hearing from you as well, smell
it what is it missing?
Taste it.
What is it missing?
And that's what I'm hearingfrom you as well.
Yeah, no, this is critical.
This is how even though, when Icame to this country, I had no
idea how to cook, but I hadspent my entire childhood in the
kitchen and I was constantlymade to taste things.
When I went home, within onesummer, I was cooking everything
, because I knew what every dishrequired, because I tasted it.
(46:51):
When it was not complete, Iknew how to complete it.
I knew that touch of salt, thetouch of sugar, the little bit
of something else, the squeezeof lime, what is it that needs
that extra layering of spice,the final layering.
I understood, because till thatfinal layering, I often was
made to taste things Like howdoes this taste?
Is there enough salt or isthere enough sugar if it's a
(47:13):
dessert?
And this is such a gift.
You know, and I know we allhave busy lives, but if you can
gift your children anything,gift them the memories of being
in kitchen with you, with momand dad or grandparents or
whoever it is, this is a giftyou're giving them forever.
Don't even think of it.
As you know, we need somefamily time or whatever.
(47:35):
This is a life gift.
When you take your child intothe kitchen and you cook with
them, that little bit of timethat you spend with them, they
will remember this.
They will recreate those disheslong after you're gone, and
that is so important.
And it's not morbid to talkabout that, because I think that
(47:57):
what parents can do, it's notjust that you give them enough
money for their trust fund andpay for their education.
The legacy you give them alsois about the food of their
grandparents, the stories of thefood eaten in your family.
That is also an important partof the legacy the food legacy.
Food eaten in your family thatis also an important part of the
legacy the food legacy.
Don't just leave them a trustfund.
Teach them about food.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
I feel like we could just press end on the record and
leave on that.
That was so powerful.
It's such a eye-opener forpeople and it's anti-cultural.
It's against the message thatculture is saying.
But I think it's an importantand a timely one, because our
families are in a state ofcrisis.
A little bit the modern-dayfamily, our relationships are
(48:40):
when it comes to connection andloneliness, and I think that's
an answer in so many ways ofcrisis.
A little bit the modern dayfamily, our relationships are
when it comes to connection andloneliness, and I think that's
an answer in so many ways right,yes, and I think food is a
language of love.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's the most personal thing that you can do
for someone, and the you know Ioften say this to people who are
like, oh, I don't want to cookand it takes too much time.
I think just imagine that themost valuable ingredient you're
putting into a dish is your time, your touch, your sensibility,
your emotion.
Yeah, that is priceless.
(49:12):
Every ingredient you can buythere's a price to every
ingredient.
There's a price tag on it, butnot for you.
What a beautiful thing you cando for someone.
And I also tell everybody cookfor yourself.
What a beautiful thing you cando for someone.
And I also tell everybody cookfor yourself.
I do this as well.
If I'm alone, I'll open a boxof cereal and eat it, just
without milk, but just open itand eat it Because I think, oh,
(49:34):
why should I bother about myself?
Now, I don't.
I understand that we don't eveninvest in our own self, we
don't even heal ourselves.
Why are you not good enough?
You are enough, you are enough.
Cook for yourself, if it's thesimplest thing.
You know, in Monsoon I have adish which is an omelet curry.
It's just omelet and thencooked in this beautiful healing
(49:57):
gravy.
That's it.
If you don't have anything elsein your house, you've got
omelets.
Just make that.
It takes a few minutes.
Do this to yourself, do thisfor yourself, because we have
forgotten in the East, food wasmedicine.
That's how everything that theyate in our ancestors were all
(50:18):
about.
How good is this for me?
Is it going to heal?
We eat seasonally, you know,during winter you have things
that warm your body.
During summer, you have thingsthat are light and easy to
digest.
Everything was about your bodyand helping your body and
nourishment.
It was all about nourishingyour body, healing your body.
(50:39):
Today, it's all aboutimpressing people and what is
trendy, and this is like themost kind of Instagrammable
something and some of it.
You look at it and think, wow,you know, this looks great, but
why will you eat it?
It doesn't make sense, youdon't know.
Because it's just that today wevalue different things and, yes
, there's a place for, you know,outrageous things and there's a
(51:01):
place for experimental.
So I'm not that kind of personwho will think, oh, you know
outrageous things and there'splace for experimental.
So I'm not that kind of personwho think, oh, you know, I don't
want to.
I want to be like cooking liketheir grandmother.
No, we've all moved on.
The world is different, butthere are things.
You don't throw the baby outwith the bath water just because
you moved on and there aredifferent cooking techniques and
different ingredients.
I think there's still somevalue in the history of the food
(51:25):
of your own family.
You should not lose that.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
So much to consider there, and I think it's a very
timely message in culture.
Right now we're speaking thesame language, because I really
believe that food should becelebrated, that we need to
return to slow food instead offast food, and I mean that in
the way that we prepare it likeslow cooking technique.
Yeah, and I really do believethat food is medicine.
I think that as a culture we'reshifting back in that direction
(51:53):
.
We've lost.
We lost it for a while, butthere's a lot of empower.
I mean talk about empowerment.
There's a lot of empowermentthere that that food is.
Food can be medicine.
If we take the freightedvegetables because some customer
wants it.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
The customer is not always right If you do not.
Most of what we have on ourmenu is local local in England,
but also what we can get fromEurope which is not crossing
oceans, and it is beautiful food.
What is seasonal, what is local, has almost a sweetness hard to
describe, but there is asweetness.
(52:46):
And I'm not doing fusion food.
I'm doing very traditionalIndian food.
I'm using ingredients and Iplan my menu based on what is
seasonal, what can I get closeby, and it's not a compromise.
It actually liberates me fromthinking that something has.
I know there's no trickle-downeffect for farmers.
My father is a farmer.
(53:06):
I know what's happening.
I'm happy that there's a localfarmer.
Someone is benefiting on theland where my restaurant is
being local.
This has now become a trendything about the terrier and
you're talking about local food.
It's our moral responsibility.
When your money is coming fromthe land where you are, please
(53:27):
make sure your ingredients dotoo, that the farmer is
benefiting too, Because don'tthink the farmer oceans away is
benefiting.
Many middlemen are benefiting,Usually men who are benefiting,
and it's not the farmer.
The farmer doesn't benefit.
So I think we also have a moralduty and a responsibility when
we eat and I don't think ifevery household made some small
(53:49):
changes to the way they eat, theripple effect will be huge.
Where it's come from, that hasnot flown in from Peru.
Why do I want to eat out ofseason you know asparagus when
(54:13):
British asparagus in season isamazing?
Let me wait.
Let me learn again how to waitfor a produce to be available
because of the season.
Let me teach myself patience.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's something that I think the modern day shopper,
consumer, doesn't even thinkabout, because we've been so
removed from that way of lifefor so long.
Yeah, and everything is clingfirmed.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
I think 30, 35 years ago, when I came to this country
, I was so shocked when I saw abunch of bananas and someone had
put a sticker on each banana.
Bananas grow in our backyard inIndia.
I was staring and thinking, wow, someone has there's a name of
a company on each banana.
Bananas grow in our backyard inIndia.
I was staring and thinking, wow, someone has there's a name of
a company on each each bananahad a sticker on it.
My mind was blown.
(54:51):
I couldn't believe.
This is how, then, everythingwas wrapped and everything looks
so beautiful.
It was as if you know, youdon't want to cook anything.
Nothing.
Everything was so perfect.
It felt like everything wasfake.
It's like the kind of play foodthat I used to see, you know,
in a shop.
Food looked like play foodbecause everything was shiny and
glinting and perfect.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
I feel like that's a whole other conversation.
Huh the reality of the food inour grocery stores, wow.
Well, I want to very quicklypivot and talk about the
upcoming release of your newbook.
You've referenced it a fewtimes.
Monsoon, when I was first sentthe book, I said I feel like
this book should come with ashelf because it is so beautiful
.
I think it needs to be ondisplay all the time.
(55:36):
Thank, you.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
I love it.
I love the color.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
It's stunning and everything about it.
I'm very much a design person.
I love design, I love the color.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It's stunning and everything about it.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
I'm very much a design person.
I love design, I loveintentionality.
I mean the texture of the book,cover the colors, and then you
open it up.
The photography is stunning,the flavors are inviting, all of
it.
So what?
Maybe did we not talk aboutthat.
You want people to know aboutthe book did we not talk about
(56:04):
that?
Speaker 2 (56:04):
you want people to know about the book.
The one thing I want them toknow about the monsoon is that
it is really a kind of a doorwayinto the simplicity of
flavoring in our food, becauseoften people have this
misconception that Indian foodis complicated to cook, that
there are a lot of things goingon.
Yes, there are a lot of thingsgoing on, but there are many
dishes that we make which areabsolutely delicious, full of
(56:28):
flavor, very quick to make andthat they're actually good for
you.
And the fact that I've tried toweave in all these flavors,
because in Ayurveda you have allthese six things that you want
to combine.
It's like an orchestra.
Each flavor is an instrument,so sweet, sour, savory, bitter
all of them combined make aperfect meal.
(56:49):
And the book is really acompass on how you get all these
things together and I really Ihope people will buy the book,
cook from the book, and thattheir world view of Indian food
will change, because it reallyis about how simple our food is,
but also how layered andhealing and satisfying it is.
(57:13):
I'm super excited about thebook and, yes, the book looks so
beautiful.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
It is, and it's definitely a lot to celebrate
for your entire team behind itand we're very excited for you.
Can you remind me of the exactdate of the launch?
I know we're in pre-order rightnow, but when is the date of?
Speaker 2 (57:31):
the launch in Australia, america, canada, uk
all on the same day, just beforeInternational Women's Day, and
(57:54):
pre-ordering the book reallyhelps the author because that's
so important.
So if people can pre-order thatwould be great.
But I just hope that peoplewill cook from the book, buy the
book and cook for it, becauseit really is.
It just really kind of makes,brings some joy into your
kitchen.
I think a lot of us have thiswhole thing of cooking as a
chore.
I know that's not how you think, but a lot of people see it as
something domestic slavery.
(58:15):
Oh my God, I've got to cook.
Oh my God.
It's just an opportunity foryou to slow down and do
something that will make youhappy.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
Your family, your loved one, make them happy.
I just wanted for a second.
We're going to switch in aminute to I end all of my
conversations with the samethree questions, but I just
wanted to stop and I was justthinking how do you pronounce
your name?
How do you like it pronounced?
Asma, Asma, so little Asma thatfelt like an outsider and maybe
(58:50):
that she didn't have a place.
Just told me that she has abook coming out in multiple
continents.
That is, goodness gracious.
What a story.
What a story.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
And for anyone who's going through this darkness and
being in that difficult space.
See, I made it, you're going tomake it too.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Beautiful.
Well, thank you for trusting mewith your story today.
That was a really powerfulconversation.
I want to end just with somefun questions that we end all of
the conversations with, and I'dlove to hear your answers too.
The first one is something thatyou have eaten recently and
loved.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
I recently had squid in a really kind of small little
place in Chinatown and, oh myGod.
Usually I always think, oh myGod, I don't like it.
I just loved it Salt and peppersquid.
It was so good.
Speaker 3 (59:41):
I've never heard that answer and I've also never
personally tried it.
Speaker 2 (59:45):
It's good, okay, I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 3 (59:48):
Okay, that's a good answer.
It's a good, unique one.
How about something you foundto be beautiful lately?
Speaker 2 (59:59):
I've seen birds and I've just realized that a lot of
birds live on the tree outsidemy house.
I found this to be anincredible experience, also very
, very fascinating, because Ikind of I wish I knew what they
were saying to each other, andI've.
Only now, recently, suddenly, Ifound I find birds fascinating
(01:00:24):
because they have wings and theycan fly, they can go anywhere,
but they stay in the same place,and this is just something that
intrigues me that they don't go.
They stay on that same treeevery day.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Wow, well, that's deep, that's very deep, that is.
I've never thought about it inthat way.
Huh, goodness, and I see thekind of like connection with
maybe your dad, right, firstpointing in the direction of
birds.
Yeah, wow, well, last but notleast, what is something that
(01:00:59):
you've discovered lately thatyou think everyone should know
about?
It could be a purchase onAmazon.
It could be a show that you'rewatching, Anything random that
you think someone might enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I have, of course, I'm 55, but I am now absolutely
convinced that the music of the80s is incredible.
If you're very young and youhave not listened to Prince and
you haven't listened to GeorgeMichael and you haven't listened
to Whitney Houston, please,please, get this music.
Listen to it, because there issomething awesome about the
(01:01:35):
music of the 80s.
I'm obsessed with that, andit's not just because, of course
, it's the soundtrack of my life, but I just think that a lot of
younger people have kind of notunderstood what the 80s were,
and I just want them to comelisten to this music of the 80s.
So it's not something you canbuy, but, yes, listen to it.
(01:01:55):
Listen to the music of the 80s.
Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
That is such a fun one.
That's a really good one.
Again, I'm not sponsored byPeloton.
I probably should at this point.
Have you ever ridden before?
Have you ever tried a ride?
Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
I have, but I have now been cycling in my own house
.
I've got a not as fancy asyours, the one behind you, but I
have, and I surprised at howgood I felt.
Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
My knees feel.
Yeah, it does, and I've alwaysbeen skeptical and I've just
recently been cycling and I just, yeah, it actually hurts a lot
when you do it and everythingaches when you get off.
But then after a while you feelreally good.
Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
The one thing about the Peloton I was skeptical for
years.
My husband was too.
We found one on FacebookMarketplace for next to nothing.
Someone was selling it, so itwas secondhand, and the classes
just add so much joy to my daybecause they're themed.
So, like you were saying,they'll have like an eighties
ride or you know, for me it'slike the early two thousands and
it's just so fun.
So, as you said that, I waslike I'll make my next ride in
(01:02:59):
eighties ride in your honor.
Yeah, make your next one aneighties ride.
Well, thank you so much againfor trusting me with this part
of your story.
We are so excited about theupcoming release of your book.
We will include a link topre-order if you're listening
ahead of the release, or toorder whenever you're listening
in the show notes.
You could buy it there.
And where do you want to sendpeople to follow along for more?
Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
So please follow me on Instagram.
I'm Asma Khan, london, becausethat's where all the monsoon
stories come, but also all thestories about life and love and,
most importantly, food so good.
Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Well, guys, I hope that you enjoyed this
conversation as much as I did,and we will see you next week.
Thank you, thank you.
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