November 4, 2024 • 42 mins
I've you've ever felt like your stuck in a season of surviving instead of thriving- this conversation is for you. Sally Clarkson, a best-selling author and celebrated speaker, offers her wisdom on crafting a plan of action to navigate the heaviness with grace and resilience, drawing from her experience of mentoring women to live purposeful lives.
We also explore the profound theme of living a legacy. Her new book, Well Lived inspires women to shape their own narratives and craft meaningful legacies, even amidst life's chaos. Through personal experiences, she highlights the beauty of preparing for dark times by making choices that light our paths, sharing her journey of raising children overseas and imparting timeless values that transcend circumstances.
Our conversation weaves through the intricate fabric of community relationships, reflecting on how modern life has disrupted traditional support systems. With stories from abroad, we illuminate the richness of everyday interactions and the need for intentional connections to cultivate a sense of belonging.
Join us for this relatable, inspiring, actionable conversation with the well loved Sally Clarkson
Buy your own copy of Well Lived here!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, everyone, welcome back to Making Room.
I am so excited that you'rehere.
Goodness, this season of falland winter, there is so much
going on all the time, right,it's hard to get a breath of
fresh air and, if you areanything like me, it feels a
little bit like the world andthose around us are just
carrying a unique heaviness.
I don't know if it's justbecause I'm getting further into
(00:22):
adulthood or if it is the timeand culture that we're in right
now, but it just feels heavy.
There is this sadness and Iwant to talk more about it.
I want to understand it moreand learn how we can thrive in
this season and liveintentionally.
You know, intentionality is ahuge part of my heart and what I
want to invite us all into, andI invited our friend Sally
(00:43):
Clarkson today to talk aboutthat a little bit further with
me and help me understand what'sgoing on and the invitation
that we have in front of us.
Well, again, I want to help usto live this season well, and
part of that is, we know, kindof having a plan for things,
knowing our plan of action,knowing how to ask for help, and
one of the ways we could dothat is with our friends at
(01:04):
Feast and Fettle.
Feast and Fettle wants to helpfeed your family, intentionally,
with good ingredients andlittle to no prep.
This is not a meal service thatyou need to rip open packages
and cook.
It is like having a personalchef delivering food right to
your door and you get to feelgood about it.
So, whether you are looking forhelp packing your kids' lunches
or feeding your family wheneveryone is finally home after
(01:26):
holiday parties and sports games, they want to come alongside
you and make your load a littlebit lighter.
So head on over tofeastandfettlecom and use code
gather for $50 off your firstweek.
Now Sally Clarkson if she isnew to you I know she's not new
(01:47):
to a lot of you, but to some ofus she is here is a little bit
more about her.
Sally Clarkson is abest-selling author, renowned
speaker and beloved mentor whohas dedicated her life to
inspiring countless women tolive for Christ.
Her podcast At Home With Sallyhas over 28 million downloads.
She's been married to herhusband, clay, for 40 years.
(02:09):
They've raised four adults andtoday Sally lives between the
mountains of Colorado and therolling fields of England.
And, goodness gracious, doesthat sound like a dream?
Well, let's not wait any longer.
Welcome to Making Room longer.
(02:30):
Welcome to Making Room.
Hi, I'm Katie, a hospitalityeducator and the host of Making
Room by Gather podcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness andwith it I was given a choice to
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it, and for me
that meant two things that Ineeded the healing to learn how
(02:53):
to accept an invitation and theconfidence to know how to extend
one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through Making Room by Gather,you will hear conversations from
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
(03:14):
the table.
But can I tell you something?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Okay, oh goodness, what isgoing on here?
Oh, there, you go there.
He's there, sally.
So my listeners know this batchrecord is our first time
(03:36):
switching the video, and a lotof my listeners also know that
my husband is my tech guy, so Iam still learning and having
griefs myself.
But welcome to the stage,welcome to the conversation.
We're so happy to have you here.
Thanks so much for inviting me.
Of course, goodness Well, yourlatest book.
We are going to dive into itand a very important topic that
(03:58):
it talks about, but I want tolearn a little bit more about
you.
So we were chatting beforebecause you are new to me and I
would love to share with therest of our listeners what do
you want them to know about youif you're new to them too?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Well, it's interesting as I was watching
your prelude to this.
I wrote a book called theLife-Giving Table, wrote a book
called the Life-Giving Home, andI have lived overseas for about
a quarter of my adult life.
So we have some things incommon that way.
But the things I want them toknow is I have four adult
(04:34):
children and they're my bestfriends.
They are kind of amazing.
They're my legacy.
I would say that the hardestwork I've ever done, and we're
all writers.
All of us are writers myhusband, me and all my legacy.
I would say that the hardestwork I've ever done, and we're
all writers.
All of us are writers myhusband, me and all my children.
So we are a family of words.
I love to drink tea.
I talk about it a lot, I am awalker and a hiker and I love
(04:57):
international life and we havegolden retrievers all the time.
So those are just a few littlefun things about me.
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Well, this book is very specific in its theme and
topic.
I'm curious what led you tothis topic, Because I know that
there must have been a lot ofheart and a lot of reflection, a
lot of conversation leading toit.
So talk to us about that lot ofconversation leading to it.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So talk to us about that.
Well, I really love women.
I think they are civilizers.
They're built to be people whocreate beauty.
They have the ability to bearticulate and academic and to
really be light spreaders, so tospeak.
I mean, I look back on my lifeand I think how did I get to
live such a life?
And when I see women today,I've worked with women all over
(05:47):
the world and we hosted manyconferences for about 23 years
until COVID hit and so I kind offell in love with these
precious women with capacity andI thought I need to write a
book for some young women whofollow us to say how are you
going to live a good story?
I was about to turn 70.
(06:09):
I'm now 71.
And I thought I have beenblessed to be able to leave a
legacy.
I haven't lived a perfect life.
No one does.
I've had lots of ups and downs.
We've moved 24 times, ninetimes internationally, and so I
just thought I would love togive a book that would say who
(06:30):
you are is beautiful, and no onehas the same DNA, no one has
the same fingerprints, and Iwant women to understand that
they are quite free to livetheir own story.
They don't have to be subjectto all the peer pressure, to
everything that's online, but Iwanted the book to really
communicate to them.
(06:50):
Live a legacy, live a storyworth telling.
Let me tell you how to do it,and feel free to live within the
confines of your ownpersonality, your preferences
and your backstory.
Who you are is a great place tobring light into your world.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Goodness.
Well, that is a powerfulbackstory, powerful topic for a
book that so many of us areneeding right now and, like I
referenced in the intro to theshow, I feel like actually let
me start with this question.
I feel like lately I foundmyself saying it feels like
people are carrying so muchsadness right now, life is so
(07:31):
heavy.
Would you say that that is justbecause I'm stepping further
into adulthood, or is that achange of the times?
What's your perception?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
No, I don't think it's a change of the times.
I think that we just didn'tunderstand, we just didn't know.
I wish that I had known.
I'm a person of faith and it'sa change of the times.
I think that we just didn'tunderstand, we just didn't know.
I wish that I had known.
I'm a person of faith and it'sbeen so foundational for me.
But I wish I had known howchaotic the world was going to
be, how difficult sometimesrelationships with people would
(08:00):
be, that illness happens, carwrecks happen, all these
different things wars happen,political craziness happens, and
I think I would have been moreprepared for life to take it on
if I had understood theimplication of a chaotic world.
But I also do talk in the book alittle bit about what it looks
(08:23):
like to prepare delight for thedark times, to know that dark
times will come, but to reallyunderstand that you don't have
to be a victim of yourconsequences.
I really believe that, at leastfor me and for many people that
understand these faith conceptsthat we were entrusted with
(08:48):
this time.
In other words, this is thetime when my story is best going
to be told, because this iswhen I was born, and so I did
write a bit about that, becauseI think that the choices that we
make, I think that the choicesthat we make, the ways we choose
(09:14):
to believe about life are goingto influence if we walk
continually in darkness or if welight a candle in the darkness.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So I know we just talked about this a little bit.
I'm curious if you had more,you'd be comfortable adding
People listening.
They're like no, no, no, butlife does feel heavy right now.
Things do feel chaotic.
That is the reality that I'mliving in.
What does it look like for themto write a beautiful story
despite what's happening intheir world and in life?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, I think one of the lessons I learned.
I raised my four children.
Of course, they went with useverywhere in the world and I
realized that they were watchingevery step of my life.
I even realized that what anincredible opportunity I had to
live.
A legacy in front of them.
And this is just a partialanswer.
(10:02):
I have many answers to thisquestion, but one of my children
, three of my children, live inOxford or in the UK.
One's a professor in London andtwo more live in Oxford and the
other one lives in Manhattanand does acting and all.
And they have said to me youknow, mama, you may not have
(10:24):
known what you were doing at thetime, but we saw you walk
through so many difficult times.
But because you chose tocultivate joy, to give us hope,
to love people when they didn'tdeserve it, to learn these
lessons of perseverance andfortitude, we find our lives
(10:47):
easier because we know the stepsto take.
Wow.
And I think sometimes we don'tunderstand that, in a chaotic,
fallen world, that we are kindof warriors, so to speak, for
goodness and light and that wehave a choice to make.
I often talk about women havingboth capacity.
(11:08):
I think that women at leastI've learned in my own life.
I had far more capacity than Iknew.
I was probably pretty lazy whenI first started out, but I
ended up writing 32 books andpeople said how did you do it?
I just kept having one morequiet time and thoughts would
just spring to my mind of whatpeople needed to hear.
(11:28):
But so we have capacity inareas we never knew about.
I never knew that I could dowhat I've done in my lifetime.
It just kind of unfolded littlebit by little bit.
As I would walk through anotherdoor of faith, I would find, wow
, I didn't know I could do that,I'm going to try more.
Another door of faith, I wouldfind, wow, I didn't know I could
do that, I'm going to try more.
But the other thing is we haveagency and women have the
(11:49):
ability to make decisions.
We aren't thwarted by thecircumstances of our lives or
limited by those.
We need to see them as thestory that is going to provide
us the foundation of bringingbeauty into darkness, of
bringing love into difficultrelationships, and we have the
(12:13):
agency to determine that we willbe those kind of people who
leave a legacy of virtue, ofgoodness, of hope, because, yes,
it's a hopeless world for manypeople, but I can bring hope to
their lives if I live a lifethat is filled with wisdom and
with goodness, and if I plant aflag and say I will not be
(12:34):
daunted.
I will live by faith.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I remember I had a mentor still is, but we don't
talk as often.
It was when I was living inThailand mostly, and she's told
me so much over the years.
She was like Katie, you are somuch stronger than you like.
Let yourself believe you are somuch stronger.
Yeah, you are so much stronger.
And I remember in a lot ofthese seasons I was just a total
basket case and I was like whatare you talking about?
Do you not see right now?
(12:58):
I'm not, I don't, I'm notstrong in appearance right now,
but she was able to seesomething, recognize something
that I was not seeing.
And I remember over time I waslike I better put.
The only way to test this islike to put it to the test Right
.
And I was like wow, okay, Ireally do have this capacity
that it's like a muscle thatjust needs to be exercised for
(13:19):
me to start to believe it formyself.
But it is amazing, it's not.
You know, throughout life andlearning some of these things,
we can't always rely on theaffirmations of others, but
sometimes it was like your kidssaying wow, mom, you modeled
this and you're able to see, ohmy gosh, wow, I really did.
Or for me, that strength.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It gave me purpose for me.
Now I realized oh my goodness,it did matter Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right, but sometimes it affirms something right or it
allows you to put certainthings into check.
That's definitely what it didfor me.
I'm so thankful for communitywhen things are hard to be able
to point those things out.
I had a friend the other dayand we recently had a life I'll
be a little bit vague somechange that we were expecting in
life.
That fell through and I waspretty heartbroken over it and I
(14:04):
was processing it with a friendand she said Katie, you, what
word did she use?
She was like you have a way ofjust kind of like finding
contentment and kind of likemaking it work when life has
thrown me all these curve balls.
And I was like, wow, I haven'tseen it that way, but I'm so
thankful that my words, myactions, have communicated that
to those around me.
It's just yeah, I don't know,there's a lot there, that's
(14:26):
great.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
You've lived in Thailand Something that I talk
about in the book a little bitbecause it kind of has to do
with what you're saying.
But I learned how to bringresources of delight into my
life on a regular basis becauseI knew that all of us are being
taxed and drawn from and takenfrom on a regular basis and we
can be empty pretty quickly.
(14:49):
And a story I told that wasfrom my past I used to work in
communist countries when theywere still communist behind the
Iron Curtain, lived there,trained people, was a part of
smuggling Bibles into thecountries and so on.
Wow, and my roommate and I asingle woman that was when I was
single and we had decided thatwe needed to go on a vacation to
(15:12):
London.
We were living in Warsaw ormaybe in Krakow at that point
and so we went to London.
But anyway, we took a vacationto London and when we got there
we were staying with somefriends and it ended up that we
had taken that was before chargecards I'm very old, we had
taken about $750 with us inpounds and when we got there she
(15:38):
had emergency dental work thatshe needed to have done.
That was $725.
And we still had three and ahalf more weeks to be there
because we were also attending aconference, and so we stayed
with our friends and they werevery gracious to feed us.
But my birthday came and shesaid I want to take you out for
(16:02):
tea on your birthday and we'llhave treacle tart.
And I said we don't have anymoney.
She said we have enough moneyfor that, and so as we're
sitting in this restaurant, allof a sudden I hear this.
You know this little alarm.
And she went oh, it's presenttime.
And so she had set her alarm.
(16:22):
But what you don't know is shehad set it for eight times that
it would ring, and every timethat it rang oh, I'm so sorry.
We both had our phone calls comethrough.
It was a scam likely.
She gave me these lovely littlegifts that were delightful to
me and I said how could youafford this?
(16:45):
We don't have any money andwe're just at our limit right
now.
And she said because I preparedfor delight ahead of time.
She said I've been shopping foryou for your birthday all these
months and I just hid it in mysuitcase and that caused me to
realize that there's rhythmsthat I put in my life.
(17:06):
I drink tea every morning, Ilight candles, I put on music, I
eat a piece of dark chocolatecaramel before I go to bed at
night.
It's just so much fun.
I walk about three to fivemiles a day.
It just helps calm me down andit also is a good health plan
for me.
I have music wherever I go Tomake a long story short.
I have music wherever I go Tomake a long story short.
(17:27):
I have rhythms in my life.
I have resources in myrefrigerator.
I have coffee shops and cafeswhere I will go when I need a
break that keep me going forward, because I think one of the
things that women need to do isto understand they are human and
they have needs both physically, spiritually, emotionally and
(17:49):
in order to last well, they needto plan to fill those needs.
They need to make time forfriends that call them to their
best selves.
They need to sleep.
They need to put rhythms intheir lives that will give them
a long-term legacy to stay alivein every way.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
It's beautiful and I think that's going to take some
personalization for each of usas we think about our own
circumstances, right, but sogood, so good.
Yeah, I'm okay sharing a littlebit.
I'm sure my followers have puttwo and two together.
We were potentially going to bemoving to a bigger house and we
live in a very tiny cottageright now and I have my first
(18:28):
son, and that was fine for thesummer because we were outside a
lot.
I was like, oh my gosh, I don'tknow how to parent a very active
, almost toddler indoors with nospace.
There's just hazards everywhere.
And we were preparing for hisfirst birthday and the wishlist
I made for him was for this newplayroom that we were going to
be having, and found out weweren't getting it and I was
like, oh my goodness, what do Ido?
(18:49):
And so my whole perspectiveshift and I started just asking
for memberships to differentplaces for us to make memories
out in the public during thewinter months when we won't be
able to be outside and we'regoing to get stir crazy.
And so, like you were saying,it takes some intentionality, it
takes some thought, but thereare ways to find delight.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
There are ways and there is purpose in our seasons
and make a commitment to be aperson of delight, it kind of
opens up opportunities.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It's really good.
Well, I love intentionality.
Our listeners know that.
Okay, so you have said thatroughly half of Americans are
not thriving right now.
This, actually this, really hitme.
I'm a little bit of a statisticgeek and love people.
My background is actuallysocial work.
A common expression that wehear in culture right now is
(19:39):
surviving, not thriving.
There's Christian songs aboutit.
We hear it everywhere.
So we've said that it's notnecessarily a change in culture.
But why do you think thatpeople are not thriving right
now?
What's the cause of this?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
just so we can understand this a little bit
further, you know, I think thereare several causes, but I'll
tell you a couple I've beenthinking about lately.
For one thing, I think COVIDthrew a wrench into things
because it encouraged people tostay home.
It closed down a lot ofdifferent places and I was
living in the UK where it wasvery stringent, and so I think
(20:14):
there was kind of like a breakin some of the community, some
of the public things that we did.
But I also think culture hastaken a different twist.
But I also think culture hastaken a different twist.
(20:37):
It used to be that and this isreally relevant to me and maybe
to some people who are listeningbut in this time people are
getting jobs all over the world,be able to stay in their
hometown or know people thatthey've grown up with, or have
relatives who would help takecare of those babies, or know
their neighbors, be able to havea commonality with the people
that they grew up in theirhometown and hopefully maybe
even getting a job there.
(20:57):
But now, if you looked at thepercentage of people, compared
to even 50 years ago, who stilllive in the same place where
they grew up, many people don'teven know that they were
supposed to have a grandma, anaunt, cousins to play with their
child, people that knew them,that would bring them food when
(21:17):
they needed it.
There was a commonality topeople's neighborhoods for
centuries where they naturallyhad support, and now it's rare.
Sometimes we move around, wedon't even know our neighbors,
as a matter of fact, we might beafraid to know our neighbors,
and so I think that there issome lack of emotional support
(21:40):
that has been thrust upon us bythe times we're living in that
people haven't even thoughtabout and we were made to have
close relationships.
As a matter of fact, all thesestudies that they've done for
people who live a long time,like over in the Mediterranean,
they say that one of the mostimportant factors I think it's
(22:03):
the top factor is that they knowneighbors, that they have
community, that they live inreference to other people, that
they don't feel alone.
And there are all these surveysthat they've done that have
talked about how many peopleit's a huge percentage of people
(22:24):
that would say I am a lonelyperson, I don't even have one
friend, and so without morecommunity, more support systems,
people don't even know thatthey're missing what they were
created to have.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, yeah, oh goodness, that's so good.
So when we lived on the fieldin Thailand I'm not sure if your
experience was the same, but wewere in a very large city, but
the missions community itselfwas quite intense in a positive
way.
We were desperate for eachother, we needed each other.
We showed up fiercely and wewere so desperate learn our
(23:05):
surroundings for the sake ofsurvival, and so we very quickly
knew the people at the localpharmacy, we knew our doctors
and we formed very intentionalcommunity very fast, um, but
again, it was like it was a forsurvival we needed to.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well you're so into a community of like-minded people
who had the same needs as you.
Yeah, sometimes it's hard tosame needs as you.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to find that Totally,
totally.
And so we've been back five-ishyears COVID made it kind of a
blur, but five years.
And I told my husband recently.
I said you know what I reallymiss?
I miss getting my lunch at thelocal place, and they know me,
they know me and I missdelivering my mail.
(23:46):
And there's like some, you know,like there's there's history
almost, and so I've made it apoint to be very intentional.
And this is a silly example Idon't mean to make light of it
because it's really profound tous, but for a long time we had
an online shop and we weremaking a lot of shipments at our
local UPS store and it wasaround this time that I made
this decision and there werethree women that worked there
(24:08):
and I was like you know what I'mgoing to befriend these women.
I see them a lot, I love themand they have, since we're on a
text chain.
They're older, they're later inlife than me, we are so close.
They came to my son's my babyshower.
They're coming to his firstbirthday, they are family now
and I was just like thank you,jesus, for that really
(24:28):
unexpected gift and it makes Idon't know, it makes community
feel I don't know that safe isthe right word, but there's a
different level of belonging.
That happens when you're right.
I'm so thankful that youbrought that up because I think
we dismiss that.
We take those relationships forgranted.
But there's treasure there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I so agree I, one of the things I I have written
about a lot just because it's onmy mind in my journal and so on
.
But yeah, in Oxford we lived awalking lifestyle.
We didn't have a car and therewere a ton of coffee shops and
restaurants and bookstores andthings within a mile radius of
(25:09):
my home and so I would go everyday.
I thought I want to know peopleand there is sometimes an
English reserve and so I wouldgo to my little coffee shop and
I would say to my barista youmake me happy every day, you
have the best coffee in all ofOxford.
And then when my neighborwalked out the door I would say
(25:30):
what a darling dog.
Tell me the story of your dog.
Five or six places that Ifrequented all the time.
I had a really fun relationshipwith this sweet younger Middle
Eastern man who ran a littlegrocery store near our house and
I would say how are you?
And tell me about your familyand what's going on today in
(25:54):
your world.
And we just became friends.
I'd walk in the door and he'dsay hello, hello.
But I think you know two thingswe need to put ourselves in
places where we can know evenjust normal people in our
grocery store or bank orwhatever.
But we also need to be thepeople who take initiative.
Absolutely.
(26:14):
We need to be the ones who saycome over and have a cup of tea
or whatever it is.
And I feel like, even though wedidn't have the quantity of
people in the UK because we hadjust moved there and all we had
some really qualityrelationships because we ran
into people on a regular basisand we needed one another so
(26:38):
much and we all mutually neededeach other, so we had a lot of
fun making friends that way.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
A few things are coming to mind, typing them out
as you're talking.
We use this phrase when I dopublic speaking or when I talk
about this more in depth.
It's not weird to initiaterelationship in our community.
Our culture has told us that ifyou make some kind of
connection with the barista, itis the.
Our culture says it is superweird for you to say, hey, do
(27:05):
you want to get coffee sometime?
Like, let's go try a differentcoffee shop.
You seem super fun.
I'd love to hang out, um, butthere's hidden treasure there
that we are not giving ourselvespermission to pursue.
Um.
Also, I heard someone a fewyears ago I think it was Bianca
Altoff, I think that's how yousay her name.
She was talking about the taxisign that says available, vacant
(27:27):
, yeah, and she said that somany of us have the taxi sign
that's just off, kind of likethrough our attitude, our
persona, our wording, and so weare communicating to people
around us like, hey, close forbusiness, like I'm not open to
relationship.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
But I think what I'm hearing you say what happened in
my experiences when we flipthat switch, it's um, people
pick up on it, and so we need tobe emotionally available for
that kind of connection and, um,you know, I think that, uh,
because I've moved so much andour children moved with us,
obviously, um, we've had tolearn how to initiate and my
(28:06):
daughter and I, every Saturdaymorning for a couple of years,
went to the same coffee shopdowntown and we always ordered
this wonderful thing calledcheesy eggs, quesadillas, and
they were great and we hadstrong coffee, and this girl had
waited on us for so long.
So all of a sudden, the Lordput it into my mind to invite
(28:28):
her to my house.
You know, and just what you'resaying and I said you know,
sweetie, I don't have tons oftime, but I would love to have
you come over and find out moreof your story.
Well, ends up, I found out thatshe was very lonely, that she
said this is the first time I'veever been invited in my whole
life into somebody's personalhome.
And we ended up befriending her, spending some time at
(28:54):
Christmas with her, and she wasjust lovely.
But she had the saddestbackground and I didn't know
anything about it and as she wasopening her heart to us, she
was the most grateful person inthe world that we had initiated
this friendship and I regretthat she moved to another city
because I would love to see heragain.
(29:15):
But I just had no idea that forthose two years she was bearing
such difficulties that I didn'teven know about and no one had
ever pursued her.
And I feel like the more timesI'm learning you know, maybe my
(29:35):
frontal lobe is going I'mlearning more and more that
people are of such great valueand everyone has a story that's
worth listening to.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And I think God makes it so clear whether you're a
person of faith or not.
I do really believe that Godmakes it clear who the people
are that we are supposed toinitiate relationship with.
Like you were saying, thatwaitress you were there for such
a time as that right and theUPS workers they have sent you
earlier.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
You know I could have asked you ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I know, but I think that we are if we really stop
and think about it.
We know those nudges, we knowwho those people are, those
faces, those places.
It's just a matter of that.
I call it.
You go first, hospitality, thatrelational initiative.
I think that's going totransform so much of this.
And even talking about sadness,heaviness, thriving I mean the
(30:26):
blue zones.
You were talking about allthose Mediterranean communities.
They've shown this is the keyand I think so many of us feel
victim of loneliness, but wealso have the ability to change
it quite radically.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
It takes a step.
You know it's scary right,introverted by nature, nature.
But I have needed things, andone of my goals that I wrote
down in life was I want tobecome a lover of people as much
as possible, as many times aspossible, and um, so I've
written in my journal what wouldit look like to love people in
(30:59):
my life?
And for some people, it it's ameal, some cookies.
For some people, it's a messageor a note or an email, but that
is something that I wanted towrite as a legacy and it's been
such a good goal for me, because, instead of judging people, I
give them context.
Wow, yeah, yeah.
Well, what made you the waythat you are?
(31:21):
I want to know and I want to besensitive to that but that
requires a choice and itrequires a time commitment.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
It's a necessary one for this time and culture.
Well, you just referenced theword legacy and the girl that I
work with, aaliyah.
I talk about her quite a lot inthis community.
She does our graphic design,our website, all of it.
Her company is called LegacyBranding Co.
And I remember working with her.
So much of the process of designand development brand strategy
was surrounding the legacy youwant to lead and I was like
goodness, I've never stopped toreally think about that.
(31:58):
Life was so fast paced.
As a new business owner, youjust want to start profiting and
building your community, all ofthose things, and I was so
grateful for um for her pausingfor that.
Oh, you're fine, um.
But I want to talk a little bitmore about legacy, cause I I
truly think if it wasn't forAaliyah, I wouldn't have stopped
to think about it, becauseculture is not really talking
(32:19):
about it right now.
So you could take this reallyany direction you want.
I had a few questions kind ofsurrounding it.
The first was what do we loseby ignoring it?
How do we get it back?
What do you want us to knowabout legacy?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
That's what actually the subtitle of my book is
Shaping a Legacy of Gratitudeand Grace.
A legacy of gratitude and grace.
And I think one of the things Irealized is that, because I was
challenged at a very young age,I was in college when I had
said God, if there's a God inthe universe, can you let me
know you?
And I didn't tell anyone.
(32:56):
I lived on the 10th floor of adorm room at my university and
literally this very shy womancame to my door one day in the
middle of the afternoon.
Nobody else was on the floor, Idon't know why and she said I
just would love to ask youropinion about some questions and
she took a religious survey.
Well, it ended up that shereally was the person who
(33:21):
introduced me to God's love.
And, as I look back, soon afterthat I met some people who
spent time teaching me from theBible and just reading lots of
different books.
We had meals together and oneof these women said to me and
she was so cute, she was fromthe South and my name is Sally
(33:44):
and she said Sal, and no oneever called me Sal before.
You know, she called me Sal andshe said I think that God has
great plans for you.
You're going to change yourworld.
And even just that.
(34:05):
Her words gave me suchencouragement.
I'd never thought about that.
I'm probably the type that lovesbeing purposeful, but then I
wasn't trained.
I looked for books that helpedme to decide.
What does it look like to livea purposeful life?
One of the first words out ofGod's mouth.
He said he blessed Adam and Eve.
He said Be fruitful andmultiply, fill the earth and
(34:25):
subdue it.
And the word subdue is thishuge picture we were designed.
We were actually designed to befulfilled by our work.
The word subdue means not justto conquer it, but to cause
something to be productive, andso we have this opportunity to
look at our own story.
(34:46):
None of us have the samefingerprints or the same DNA.
We can do it individually.
We don't have to copy anyone.
Our circumstances, ourbackground, our backstory go to
create for us the platform uponwhich we get to write a story
for our lives.
We can choose to love instead ofhating.
We can choose to forgiveinstead of being bitter.
(35:09):
We can choose to really educateourselves so that we can have
all sorts of encouragement thatwe took initiative to build into
our own lives, and I realizedthat we do have this agency to
be able to make these decisions,and so I think that nobody
(35:29):
nobody that I've ever met has ahopeless story.
They all have an arena in whichthey can choose to shape their
lives by their own decisions, insuch a way that they can turn
their lives around, they canchoose to have hope and they can
learn how to build deeply byloving people, by initiating to
(35:52):
people, which ends upencouraging them as well.
The legacy is something that weshape in our own way.
We look at our circumstancesand we build a legacy by the
decisions that we make.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
I love that we shape it.
That's empowering in a verysweet and profound way.
Well, goodness, we end each ofour conversations with the same
three questions and don't worry,listeners, I'm going to attach
the link to Sally's platforms,her books.
You can get your own copy andlearn more as well there.
(36:27):
But I would love to hear youranswer, sally, to these
questions.
The first one is something thatyou have eaten recently and
loved.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Oh, all of us in our family are hobbits.
We love to eat, let me thinkyou know I hate to say it, say
it it's the same cooking myhusband loves.
You know I don't have to cookfor a thousand people like I
used to, but I did have a veryhot quiche this morning that I
(37:01):
got from my local store, butlast night I ended up making
some wonderful.
It was actually really goodsome homemade bread and some
navy bean and ham soup.
It ends up that it was 40degrees here last night, kind of
one of the first really colddays.
(37:23):
I live in the mountains inColorado and it was kind of a
perfect thing.
I love salmon.
I had that last week.
Anyway, I could go on aboutfood, but those are three things
that come to mind.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I love all of those.
Yeah, I've been on a, so I'mgluten-free.
I've been gluten-free for along time for health reasons.
And a holistic practitionerrecently said hey, katie, why
don't you just give like a goodquality sourdough a try?
And there's a farmer's marketin town and I just kind of like
closed my eyes, gave them mydebit card, didn't want to look
at the price and I took it home.
(37:56):
I digest it perfectly, it is sodelicious, it is so delicious,
it is so phenomenal.
And my husband was like did youjust spend $9 on a loaf of
bread?
I was like you know what?
Yes, yes, I did.
Where do you live?
We're coastal Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, and it's the whole farmer's market scene.
I'm sure I did it.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
I'm a natural, at least 75% of the time, oh
goodness.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Well, okay, the second one is a gathering you
attended that made you feel astrong sense of belonging and,
if you could pinpoint it, whatit was that made you feel that
way.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I have a number of women that work for me
assistants and I determinedseveral years ago that we would
meet somewhere in the UnitedStates every year.
They're all over the UnitedStates and so we have a new one
planned for going to SouthCarolina, to Charleston.
But every year I would everyother year at least they would
(38:56):
come to my house and I wouldpick the best restaurants to go
to and topics we were going totalk about, pick the best
restaurants to go to and topicswe were going to talk about, and
we just spend all weekend beingfriends.
Come on Thursday, leave onSunday.
But because we have builtlike-minded values by being
together significantly over manyyears, we are close, we accept
(39:20):
one another's weaknesses andfailures and we laugh.
We're safe with each other sowe can laugh at things we
couldn't talk about online.
I would say that just beingwith them and it's coming up
really soon, it's exciting timeis really wow.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I love that, and that's kind of building with
what we're doing here at gatherand making room.
I have a part-time assistantand my website designer graphic
designer and goodness.
It is so amazing when, again,you work together, you grow
together, and it's so sweet whenit works personality wise
because that's not everybody'swork culture and so I'm thankful
(39:59):
that you have that and I'mthankful we have that here too.
Last but not least, this is afun.
So I'm thankful that you havethat and I'm thankful we have
that here too.
Last but not least, this is afun one.
I'm not sure if you haveanything for it, though.
Something you've discoveredrecently that you think everyone
should know about a random TVshow, an Amazon purchase, a
funky gadget.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I'm sure that there are a lot of things because I
require adventure in my life.
Well, I think that everyoneshould, if they can, fly to
Oxford and walk on the cobbledstreets and sip some strong tea
and go with a friend so they cantake time away from the
busyness of life and enjoy thisincredible city.
(40:44):
And so I would say that I'm onmy way there.
Pretty soon, I go there.
I spend a lot of time there.
So I would say you can't livewithout these trips that take
you away from life.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, I have such a longing, just lately, to go to
England for the first time.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
There's a slowness that I sense about it, that I
think I'm craving, I know, andyeah, it's just nice to get away
to a whole new place and have anew perspective, even if it's
just for a week or two.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Oh goodness, this is so silly.
What is that?
There is a show there, oldergentlemen, there's three of them
.
They talk a lot about cars andone of them has a Clarkson's
farm.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
And that's my last name, but I don't watch the show
, that's right.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Why is people listening?
Or probably like shouting it atme?
Cause they could think of thename grand tour, grand tour, yes
, the grand tour guys.
So my husband's a huge fan andone of them have since created a
farm, and so my husband, wewatched the show and so I think
he would agree to go to Englandwith me if we can go to the farm
(41:51):
.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Well it can be anywhere, but just getting away
sometimes is really a good goodfor the soul, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Goodness.
Well, this was rich and sweetand grace-filled, and I'm just
so thankful that you took thetime.
We appreciate you and I'm soglad we're connected.
Oh, me too.
Thank you so much Best friends.
Well, guys, thank you so much.
We will see you next week.
Okay, everyone, welcome back to Making Room.
I am so excited that you'rehere.
Goodness, this season of falland winter, there is so much
going on all the time, right,it's hard to get a breath of
fresh air and, if you areanything like me, it feels a
little bit like the world andthose around us are just
carrying a unique heaviness.
I don't know if it's justbecause I'm getting further into
(00:22):
adulthood or if it is the timeand culture that we're in right
now, but it just feels heavy.
There is this sadness and Iwant to talk more about it.
I want to understand it moreand learn how we can thrive in
this season and liveintentionally.
You know, intentionality is ahuge part of my heart and what I
want to invite us all into, andI invited our friend Sally
(00:43):
Clarkson today to talk aboutthat a little bit further with
me and help me understand what'sgoing on and the invitation
that we have in front of us.
Well, again, I want to help usto live this season well, and
part of that is, we know, kindof having a plan for things,
knowing our plan of action,knowing how to ask for help, and
one of the ways we could dothat is with our friends at
(01:04):
Feast and Fettle.
Feast and Fettle wants to helpfeed your family, intentionally,
with good ingredients andlittle to no prep.
This is not a meal service thatyou need to rip open packages
and cook.
It is like having a personalchef delivering food right to
your door and you get to feelgood about it.
So, whether you are looking forhelp packing your kids' lunches
or feeding your family wheneveryone is finally home after
(01:26):
holiday parties and sports games, they want to come alongside
you and make your load a littlebit lighter.
So head on over tofeastandfettlecom and use code
gather for $50 off your firstweek.
Now Sally Clarkson if she isnew to you I know she's not new
(01:47):
to a lot of you, but to some ofus she is here is a little bit
more about her.
Sally Clarkson is abest-selling author, renowned
speaker and beloved mentor whohas dedicated her life to
inspiring countless women tolive for Christ.
Her podcast At Home With Sallyhas over 28 million downloads.
She's been married to herhusband, clay, for 40 years.
(02:09):
They've raised four adults andtoday Sally lives between the
mountains of Colorado and therolling fields of England.
And, goodness gracious, doesthat sound like a dream?
Well, let's not wait any longer.
Welcome to Making Room longer.
(02:30):
Welcome to Making Room.
Hi, I'm Katie, a hospitalityeducator and the host of Making
Room by Gather podcast.
I am set to see our communitiesget back to the table through
hospitality, but it wasn'talways this way.
My husband and I moved toThailand and through it I
experienced some loneliness andwith it I was given a choice to
sit back and accept it or to dosomething about it, and for me
that meant two things that Ineeded the healing to learn how
(02:53):
to accept an invitation and theconfidence to know how to extend
one.
Through this process, Ideveloped some of the richest
and deepest relationships of mylife.
Through Making Room by Gather,you will hear conversations from
myself and experts in the areasof food, design and
relationships.
You see there are countlessthings trying to keep us from
(03:14):
the table.
But can I tell you something?
Take a seat because you areready, you are capable, you are
a good host.
Okay, oh goodness, what isgoing on here?
Oh, there, you go there.
He's there, sally.
So my listeners know this batchrecord is our first time
(03:36):
switching the video, and a lotof my listeners also know that
my husband is my tech guy, so Iam still learning and having
griefs myself.
But welcome to the stage,welcome to the conversation.
We're so happy to have you here.
Thanks so much for inviting me.
Of course, goodness Well, yourlatest book.
We are going to dive into itand a very important topic that
(03:58):
it talks about, but I want tolearn a little bit more about
you.
So we were chatting beforebecause you are new to me and I
would love to share with therest of our listeners what do
you want them to know about youif you're new to them too?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Well, it's interesting as I was watching
your prelude to this.
I wrote a book called theLife-Giving Table, wrote a book
called the Life-Giving Home, andI have lived overseas for about
a quarter of my adult life.
So we have some things incommon that way.
But the things I want them toknow is I have four adult
(04:34):
children and they're my bestfriends.
They are kind of amazing.
They're my legacy.
I would say that the hardestwork I've ever done, and we're
all writers.
All of us are writers myhusband, me and all my legacy.
I would say that the hardestwork I've ever done, and we're
all writers.
All of us are writers myhusband, me and all my children.
So we are a family of words.
I love to drink tea.
I talk about it a lot, I am awalker and a hiker and I love
(04:57):
international life and we havegolden retrievers all the time.
So those are just a few littlefun things about me.
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Well, this book is very specific in its theme and
topic.
I'm curious what led you tothis topic, Because I know that
there must have been a lot ofheart and a lot of reflection, a
lot of conversation leading toit.
So talk to us about that lot ofconversation leading to it.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So talk to us about that.
Well, I really love women.
I think they are civilizers.
They're built to be people whocreate beauty.
They have the ability to bearticulate and academic and to
really be light spreaders, so tospeak.
I mean, I look back on my lifeand I think how did I get to
live such a life?
And when I see women today,I've worked with women all over
(05:47):
the world and we hosted manyconferences for about 23 years
until COVID hit and so I kind offell in love with these
precious women with capacity andI thought I need to write a
book for some young women whofollow us to say how are you
going to live a good story?
I was about to turn 70.
(06:09):
I'm now 71.
And I thought I have beenblessed to be able to leave a
legacy.
I haven't lived a perfect life.
No one does.
I've had lots of ups and downs.
We've moved 24 times, ninetimes internationally, and so I
just thought I would love togive a book that would say who
(06:30):
you are is beautiful, and no onehas the same DNA, no one has
the same fingerprints, and Iwant women to understand that
they are quite free to livetheir own story.
They don't have to be subjectto all the peer pressure, to
everything that's online, but Iwanted the book to really
communicate to them.
(06:50):
Live a legacy, live a storyworth telling.
Let me tell you how to do it,and feel free to live within the
confines of your ownpersonality, your preferences
and your backstory.
Who you are is a great place tobring light into your world.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Goodness.
Well, that is a powerfulbackstory, powerful topic for a
book that so many of us areneeding right now and, like I
referenced in the intro to theshow, I feel like actually let
me start with this question.
I feel like lately I foundmyself saying it feels like
people are carrying so muchsadness right now, life is so
(07:31):
heavy.
Would you say that that is justbecause I'm stepping further
into adulthood, or is that achange of the times?
What's your perception?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
No, I don't think it's a change of the times.
I think that we just didn'tunderstand, we just didn't know.
I wish that I had known.
I'm a person of faith and it'sa change of the times.
I think that we just didn'tunderstand, we just didn't know.
I wish that I had known.
I'm a person of faith and it'sbeen so foundational for me.
But I wish I had known howchaotic the world was going to
be, how difficult sometimesrelationships with people would
(08:00):
be, that illness happens, carwrecks happen, all these
different things wars happen,political craziness happens, and
I think I would have been moreprepared for life to take it on
if I had understood theimplication of a chaotic world.
But I also do talk in the book alittle bit about what it looks
(08:23):
like to prepare delight for thedark times, to know that dark
times will come, but to reallyunderstand that you don't have
to be a victim of yourconsequences.
I really believe that, at leastfor me and for many people that
understand these faith conceptsthat we were entrusted with
(08:48):
this time.
In other words, this is thetime when my story is best going
to be told, because this iswhen I was born, and so I did
write a bit about that, becauseI think that the choices that we
make, I think that the choicesthat we make, the ways we choose
(09:14):
to believe about life are goingto influence if we walk
continually in darkness or if welight a candle in the darkness.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So I know we just talked about this a little bit.
I'm curious if you had more,you'd be comfortable adding
People listening.
They're like no, no, no, butlife does feel heavy right now.
Things do feel chaotic.
That is the reality that I'mliving in.
What does it look like for themto write a beautiful story
despite what's happening intheir world and in life?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, I think one of the lessons I learned.
I raised my four children.
Of course, they went with useverywhere in the world and I
realized that they were watchingevery step of my life.
I even realized that what anincredible opportunity I had to
live.
A legacy in front of them.
And this is just a partialanswer.
(10:02):
I have many answers to thisquestion, but one of my children
, three of my children, live inOxford or in the UK.
One's a professor in London andtwo more live in Oxford and the
other one lives in Manhattanand does acting and all.
And they have said to me youknow, mama, you may not have
(10:24):
known what you were doing at thetime, but we saw you walk
through so many difficult times.
But because you chose tocultivate joy, to give us hope,
to love people when they didn'tdeserve it, to learn these
lessons of perseverance andfortitude, we find our lives
(10:47):
easier because we know the stepsto take.
Wow.
And I think sometimes we don'tunderstand that, in a chaotic,
fallen world, that we are kindof warriors, so to speak, for
goodness and light and that wehave a choice to make.
I often talk about women havingboth capacity.
(11:08):
I think that women at leastI've learned in my own life.
I had far more capacity than Iknew.
I was probably pretty lazy whenI first started out, but I
ended up writing 32 books andpeople said how did you do it?
I just kept having one morequiet time and thoughts would
just spring to my mind of whatpeople needed to hear.
(11:28):
But so we have capacity inareas we never knew about.
I never knew that I could dowhat I've done in my lifetime.
It just kind of unfolded littlebit by little bit.
As I would walk through anotherdoor of faith, I would find, wow
, I didn't know I could do that,I'm going to try more.
Another door of faith, I wouldfind, wow, I didn't know I could
do that, I'm going to try more.
But the other thing is we haveagency and women have the
(11:49):
ability to make decisions.
We aren't thwarted by thecircumstances of our lives or
limited by those.
We need to see them as thestory that is going to provide
us the foundation of bringingbeauty into darkness, of
bringing love into difficultrelationships, and we have the
(12:13):
agency to determine that we willbe those kind of people who
leave a legacy of virtue, ofgoodness, of hope, because, yes,
it's a hopeless world for manypeople, but I can bring hope to
their lives if I live a lifethat is filled with wisdom and
with goodness, and if I plant aflag and say I will not be
(12:34):
daunted.
I will live by faith.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I remember I had a mentor still is, but we don't
talk as often.
It was when I was living inThailand mostly, and she's told
me so much over the years.
She was like Katie, you are somuch stronger than you like.
Let yourself believe you are somuch stronger.
Yeah, you are so much stronger.
And I remember in a lot ofthese seasons I was just a total
basket case and I was like whatare you talking about?
Do you not see right now?
(12:58):
I'm not, I don't, I'm notstrong in appearance right now,
but she was able to seesomething, recognize something
that I was not seeing.
And I remember over time I waslike I better put.
The only way to test this islike to put it to the test Right
.
And I was like wow, okay, Ireally do have this capacity
that it's like a muscle thatjust needs to be exercised for
(13:19):
me to start to believe it formyself.
But it is amazing, it's not.
You know, throughout life andlearning some of these things,
we can't always rely on theaffirmations of others, but
sometimes it was like your kidssaying wow, mom, you modeled
this and you're able to see, ohmy gosh, wow, I really did.
Or for me, that strength.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It gave me purpose for me.
Now I realized oh my goodness,it did matter Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right, but sometimes it affirms something right or it
allows you to put certainthings into check.
That's definitely what it didfor me.
I'm so thankful for communitywhen things are hard to be able
to point those things out.
I had a friend the other dayand we recently had a life I'll
be a little bit vague somechange that we were expecting in
life.
That fell through and I waspretty heartbroken over it and I
(14:04):
was processing it with a friendand she said Katie, you, what
word did she use?
She was like you have a way ofjust kind of like finding
contentment and kind of likemaking it work when life has
thrown me all these curve balls.
And I was like, wow, I haven'tseen it that way, but I'm so
thankful that my words, myactions, have communicated that
to those around me.
It's just yeah, I don't know,there's a lot there, that's
(14:26):
great.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
You've lived in Thailand Something that I talk
about in the book a little bitbecause it kind of has to do
with what you're saying.
But I learned how to bringresources of delight into my
life on a regular basis becauseI knew that all of us are being
taxed and drawn from and takenfrom on a regular basis and we
can be empty pretty quickly.
(14:49):
And a story I told that wasfrom my past I used to work in
communist countries when theywere still communist behind the
Iron Curtain, lived there,trained people, was a part of
smuggling Bibles into thecountries and so on.
Wow, and my roommate and I asingle woman that was when I was
single and we had decided thatwe needed to go on a vacation to
(15:12):
London.
We were living in Warsaw ormaybe in Krakow at that point
and so we went to London.
But anyway, we took a vacationto London and when we got there
we were staying with somefriends and it ended up that we
had taken that was before chargecards I'm very old, we had
taken about $750 with us inpounds and when we got there she
(15:38):
had emergency dental work thatshe needed to have done.
That was $725.
And we still had three and ahalf more weeks to be there
because we were also attending aconference, and so we stayed
with our friends and they werevery gracious to feed us.
But my birthday came and shesaid I want to take you out for
(16:02):
tea on your birthday and we'llhave treacle tart.
And I said we don't have anymoney.
She said we have enough moneyfor that, and so as we're
sitting in this restaurant, allof a sudden I hear this.
You know this little alarm.
And she went oh, it's presenttime.
And so she had set her alarm.
(16:22):
But what you don't know is shehad set it for eight times that
it would ring, and every timethat it rang oh, I'm so sorry.
We both had our phone calls comethrough.
It was a scam likely.
She gave me these lovely littlegifts that were delightful to
me and I said how could youafford this?
(16:45):
We don't have any money andwe're just at our limit right
now.
And she said because I preparedfor delight ahead of time.
She said I've been shopping foryou for your birthday all these
months and I just hid it in mysuitcase and that caused me to
realize that there's rhythmsthat I put in my life.
(17:06):
I drink tea every morning, Ilight candles, I put on music, I
eat a piece of dark chocolatecaramel before I go to bed at
night.
It's just so much fun.
I walk about three to fivemiles a day.
It just helps calm me down andit also is a good health plan
for me.
I have music wherever I go Tomake a long story short.
I have music wherever I go Tomake a long story short.
(17:27):
I have rhythms in my life.
I have resources in myrefrigerator.
I have coffee shops and cafeswhere I will go when I need a
break that keep me going forward, because I think one of the
things that women need to do isto understand they are human and
they have needs both physically, spiritually, emotionally and
(17:49):
in order to last well, they needto plan to fill those needs.
They need to make time forfriends that call them to their
best selves.
They need to sleep.
They need to put rhythms intheir lives that will give them
a long-term legacy to stay alivein every way.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
It's beautiful and I think that's going to take some
personalization for each of usas we think about our own
circumstances, right, but sogood, so good.
Yeah, I'm okay sharing a littlebit.
I'm sure my followers have puttwo and two together.
We were potentially going to bemoving to a bigger house and we
live in a very tiny cottageright now and I have my first
(18:28):
son, and that was fine for thesummer because we were outside a
lot.
I was like, oh my gosh, I don'tknow how to parent a very active
, almost toddler indoors with nospace.
There's just hazards everywhere.
And we were preparing for hisfirst birthday and the wishlist
I made for him was for this newplayroom that we were going to
be having, and found out weweren't getting it and I was
like, oh my goodness, what do Ido?
(18:49):
And so my whole perspectiveshift and I started just asking
for memberships to differentplaces for us to make memories
out in the public during thewinter months when we won't be
able to be outside and we'regoing to get stir crazy.
And so, like you were saying,it takes some intentionality, it
takes some thought, but thereare ways to find delight.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
There are ways and there is purpose in our seasons
and make a commitment to be aperson of delight, it kind of
opens up opportunities.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It's really good.
Well, I love intentionality.
Our listeners know that.
Okay, so you have said thatroughly half of Americans are
not thriving right now.
This, actually this, really hitme.
I'm a little bit of a statisticgeek and love people.
My background is actuallysocial work.
A common expression that wehear in culture right now is
(19:39):
surviving, not thriving.
There's Christian songs aboutit.
We hear it everywhere.
So we've said that it's notnecessarily a change in culture.
But why do you think thatpeople are not thriving right
now?
What's the cause of this?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
just so we can understand this a little bit
further, you know, I think thereare several causes, but I'll
tell you a couple I've beenthinking about lately.
For one thing, I think COVIDthrew a wrench into things
because it encouraged people tostay home.
It closed down a lot ofdifferent places and I was
living in the UK where it wasvery stringent, and so I think
(20:14):
there was kind of like a breakin some of the community, some
of the public things that we did.
But I also think culture hastaken a different twist.
But I also think culture hastaken a different twist.
(20:37):
It used to be that and this isreally relevant to me and maybe
to some people who are listeningbut in this time people are
getting jobs all over the world,be able to stay in their
hometown or know people thatthey've grown up with, or have
relatives who would help takecare of those babies, or know
their neighbors, be able to havea commonality with the people
that they grew up in theirhometown and hopefully maybe
even getting a job there.
(20:57):
But now, if you looked at thepercentage of people, compared
to even 50 years ago, who stilllive in the same place where
they grew up, many people don'teven know that they were
supposed to have a grandma, anaunt, cousins to play with their
child, people that knew them,that would bring them food when
(21:17):
they needed it.
There was a commonality topeople's neighborhoods for
centuries where they naturallyhad support, and now it's rare.
Sometimes we move around, wedon't even know our neighbors,
as a matter of fact, we might beafraid to know our neighbors,
and so I think that there issome lack of emotional support
(21:40):
that has been thrust upon us bythe times we're living in that
people haven't even thoughtabout and we were made to have
close relationships.
As a matter of fact, all thesestudies that they've done for
people who live a long time,like over in the Mediterranean,
they say that one of the mostimportant factors I think it's
(22:03):
the top factor is that they knowneighbors, that they have
community, that they live inreference to other people, that
they don't feel alone.
And there are all these surveysthat they've done that have
talked about how many peopleit's a huge percentage of people
(22:24):
that would say I am a lonelyperson, I don't even have one
friend, and so without morecommunity, more support systems,
people don't even know thatthey're missing what they were
created to have.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, yeah, oh goodness, that's so good.
So when we lived on the fieldin Thailand I'm not sure if your
experience was the same, but wewere in a very large city, but
the missions community itselfwas quite intense in a positive
way.
We were desperate for eachother, we needed each other.
We showed up fiercely and wewere so desperate learn our
(23:05):
surroundings for the sake ofsurvival, and so we very quickly
knew the people at the localpharmacy, we knew our doctors
and we formed very intentionalcommunity very fast, um, but
again, it was like it was a forsurvival we needed to.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well you're so into a community of like-minded people
who had the same needs as you.
Yeah, sometimes it's hard tosame needs as you.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to find that Totally,
totally.
And so we've been back five-ishyears COVID made it kind of a
blur, but five years.
And I told my husband recently.
I said you know what I reallymiss?
I miss getting my lunch at thelocal place, and they know me,
they know me and I missdelivering my mail.
(23:46):
And there's like some, you know,like there's there's history
almost, and so I've made it apoint to be very intentional.
And this is a silly example Idon't mean to make light of it
because it's really profound tous, but for a long time we had
an online shop and we weremaking a lot of shipments at our
local UPS store and it wasaround this time that I made
this decision and there werethree women that worked there
(24:08):
and I was like you know what I'mgoing to befriend these women.
I see them a lot, I love themand they have, since we're on a
text chain.
They're older, they're later inlife than me, we are so close.
They came to my son's my babyshower.
They're coming to his firstbirthday, they are family now
and I was just like thank you,jesus, for that really
(24:28):
unexpected gift and it makes Idon't know, it makes community
feel I don't know that safe isthe right word, but there's a
different level of belonging.
That happens when you're right.
I'm so thankful that youbrought that up because I think
we dismiss that.
We take those relationships forgranted.
But there's treasure there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I so agree I, one of the things I I have written
about a lot just because it's onmy mind in my journal and so on
.
But yeah, in Oxford we lived awalking lifestyle.
We didn't have a car and therewere a ton of coffee shops and
restaurants and bookstores andthings within a mile radius of
(25:09):
my home and so I would go everyday.
I thought I want to know peopleand there is sometimes an
English reserve and so I wouldgo to my little coffee shop and
I would say to my barista youmake me happy every day, you
have the best coffee in all ofOxford.
And then when my neighborwalked out the door I would say
(25:30):
what a darling dog.
Tell me the story of your dog.
Five or six places that Ifrequented all the time.
I had a really fun relationshipwith this sweet younger Middle
Eastern man who ran a littlegrocery store near our house and
I would say how are you?
And tell me about your familyand what's going on today in
(25:54):
your world.
And we just became friends.
I'd walk in the door and he'dsay hello, hello.
But I think you know two thingswe need to put ourselves in
places where we can know evenjust normal people in our
grocery store or bank orwhatever.
But we also need to be thepeople who take initiative.
Absolutely.
(26:14):
We need to be the ones who saycome over and have a cup of tea
or whatever it is.
And I feel like, even though wedidn't have the quantity of
people in the UK because we hadjust moved there and all we had
some really qualityrelationships because we ran
into people on a regular basisand we needed one another so
(26:38):
much and we all mutually neededeach other, so we had a lot of
fun making friends that way.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
A few things are coming to mind, typing them out
as you're talking.
We use this phrase when I dopublic speaking or when I talk
about this more in depth.
It's not weird to initiaterelationship in our community.
Our culture has told us that ifyou make some kind of
connection with the barista, itis the.
Our culture says it is superweird for you to say, hey, do
(27:05):
you want to get coffee sometime?
Like, let's go try a differentcoffee shop.
You seem super fun.
I'd love to hang out, um, butthere's hidden treasure there
that we are not giving ourselvespermission to pursue.
Um.
Also, I heard someone a fewyears ago I think it was Bianca
Altoff, I think that's how yousay her name.
She was talking about the taxisign that says available, vacant
(27:27):
, yeah, and she said that somany of us have the taxi sign
that's just off, kind of likethrough our attitude, our
persona, our wording, and so weare communicating to people
around us like, hey, close forbusiness, like I'm not open to
relationship.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
But I think what I'm hearing you say what happened in
my experiences when we flipthat switch, it's um, people
pick up on it, and so we need tobe emotionally available for
that kind of connection and, um,you know, I think that, uh,
because I've moved so much andour children moved with us,
obviously, um, we've had tolearn how to initiate and my
(28:06):
daughter and I, every Saturdaymorning for a couple of years,
went to the same coffee shopdowntown and we always ordered
this wonderful thing calledcheesy eggs, quesadillas, and
they were great and we hadstrong coffee, and this girl had
waited on us for so long.
So all of a sudden, the Lordput it into my mind to invite
(28:28):
her to my house.
You know, and just what you'resaying and I said you know,
sweetie, I don't have tons oftime, but I would love to have
you come over and find out moreof your story.
Well, ends up, I found out thatshe was very lonely, that she
said this is the first time I'veever been invited in my whole
life into somebody's personalhome.
And we ended up befriending her, spending some time at
(28:54):
Christmas with her, and she wasjust lovely.
But she had the saddestbackground and I didn't know
anything about it and as she wasopening her heart to us, she
was the most grateful person inthe world that we had initiated
this friendship and I regretthat she moved to another city
because I would love to see heragain.
(29:15):
But I just had no idea that forthose two years she was bearing
such difficulties that I didn'teven know about and no one had
ever pursued her.
And I feel like the more timesI'm learning you know, maybe my
(29:35):
frontal lobe is going I'mlearning more and more that
people are of such great valueand everyone has a story that's
worth listening to.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And I think God makes it so clear whether you're a
person of faith or not.
I do really believe that Godmakes it clear who the people
are that we are supposed toinitiate relationship with.
Like you were saying, thatwaitress you were there for such
a time as that right and theUPS workers they have sent you
earlier.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
You know I could have asked you ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I know, but I think that we are if we really stop
and think about it.
We know those nudges, we knowwho those people are, those
faces, those places.
It's just a matter of that.
I call it.
You go first, hospitality, thatrelational initiative.
I think that's going totransform so much of this.
And even talking about sadness,heaviness, thriving I mean the
(30:26):
blue zones.
You were talking about allthose Mediterranean communities.
They've shown this is the keyand I think so many of us feel
victim of loneliness, but wealso have the ability to change
it quite radically.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
It takes a step.
You know it's scary right,introverted by nature, nature.
But I have needed things, andone of my goals that I wrote
down in life was I want tobecome a lover of people as much
as possible, as many times aspossible, and um, so I've
written in my journal what wouldit look like to love people in
(30:59):
my life?
And for some people, it it's ameal, some cookies.
For some people, it's a messageor a note or an email, but that
is something that I wanted towrite as a legacy and it's been
such a good goal for me, because, instead of judging people, I
give them context.
Wow, yeah, yeah.
Well, what made you the waythat you are?
(31:21):
I want to know and I want to besensitive to that but that
requires a choice and itrequires a time commitment.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
It's a necessary one for this time and culture.
Well, you just referenced theword legacy and the girl that I
work with, aaliyah.
I talk about her quite a lot inthis community.
She does our graphic design,our website, all of it.
Her company is called LegacyBranding Co.
And I remember working with her.
So much of the process of designand development brand strategy
was surrounding the legacy youwant to lead and I was like
goodness, I've never stopped toreally think about that.
(31:58):
Life was so fast paced.
As a new business owner, youjust want to start profiting and
building your community, all ofthose things, and I was so
grateful for um for her pausingfor that.
Oh, you're fine, um.
But I want to talk a little bitmore about legacy, cause I I
truly think if it wasn't forAaliyah, I wouldn't have stopped
to think about it, becauseculture is not really talking
(32:19):
about it right now.
So you could take this reallyany direction you want.
I had a few questions kind ofsurrounding it.
The first was what do we loseby ignoring it?
How do we get it back?
What do you want us to knowabout legacy?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
That's what actually the subtitle of my book is
Shaping a Legacy of Gratitudeand Grace.
A legacy of gratitude and grace.
And I think one of the things Irealized is that, because I was
challenged at a very young age,I was in college when I had
said God, if there's a God inthe universe, can you let me
know you?
And I didn't tell anyone.
(32:56):
I lived on the 10th floor of adorm room at my university and
literally this very shy womancame to my door one day in the
middle of the afternoon.
Nobody else was on the floor, Idon't know why and she said I
just would love to ask youropinion about some questions and
she took a religious survey.
Well, it ended up that shereally was the person who
(33:21):
introduced me to God's love.
And, as I look back, soon afterthat I met some people who
spent time teaching me from theBible and just reading lots of
different books.
We had meals together and oneof these women said to me and
she was so cute, she was fromthe South and my name is Sally
(33:44):
and she said Sal, and no oneever called me Sal before.
You know, she called me Sal andshe said I think that God has
great plans for you.
You're going to change yourworld.
And even just that.
(34:05):
Her words gave me suchencouragement.
I'd never thought about that.
I'm probably the type that lovesbeing purposeful, but then I
wasn't trained.
I looked for books that helpedme to decide.
What does it look like to livea purposeful life?
One of the first words out ofGod's mouth.
He said he blessed Adam and Eve.
He said Be fruitful andmultiply, fill the earth and
(34:25):
subdue it.
And the word subdue is thishuge picture we were designed.
We were actually designed to befulfilled by our work.
The word subdue means not justto conquer it, but to cause
something to be productive, andso we have this opportunity to
look at our own story.
(34:46):
None of us have the samefingerprints or the same DNA.
We can do it individually.
We don't have to copy anyone.
Our circumstances, ourbackground, our backstory go to
create for us the platform uponwhich we get to write a story
for our lives.
We can choose to love instead ofhating.
We can choose to forgiveinstead of being bitter.
(35:09):
We can choose to really educateourselves so that we can have
all sorts of encouragement thatwe took initiative to build into
our own lives, and I realizedthat we do have this agency to
be able to make these decisions,and so I think that nobody
(35:29):
nobody that I've ever met has ahopeless story.
They all have an arena in whichthey can choose to shape their
lives by their own decisions, insuch a way that they can turn
their lives around, they canchoose to have hope and they can
learn how to build deeply byloving people, by initiating to
(35:52):
people, which ends upencouraging them as well.
The legacy is something that weshape in our own way.
We look at our circumstancesand we build a legacy by the
decisions that we make.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
I love that we shape it.
That's empowering in a verysweet and profound way.
Well, goodness, we end each ofour conversations with the same
three questions and don't worry,listeners, I'm going to attach
the link to Sally's platforms,her books.
You can get your own copy andlearn more as well there.
(36:27):
But I would love to hear youranswer, sally, to these
questions.
The first one is something thatyou have eaten recently and
loved.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Oh, all of us in our family are hobbits.
We love to eat, let me thinkyou know I hate to say it, say
it it's the same cooking myhusband loves.
You know I don't have to cookfor a thousand people like I
used to, but I did have a veryhot quiche this morning that I
(37:01):
got from my local store, butlast night I ended up making
some wonderful.
It was actually really goodsome homemade bread and some
navy bean and ham soup.
It ends up that it was 40degrees here last night, kind of
one of the first really colddays.
(37:23):
I live in the mountains inColorado and it was kind of a
perfect thing.
I love salmon.
I had that last week.
Anyway, I could go on aboutfood, but those are three things
that come to mind.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I love all of those.
Yeah, I've been on a, so I'mgluten-free.
I've been gluten-free for along time for health reasons.
And a holistic practitionerrecently said hey, katie, why
don't you just give like a goodquality sourdough a try?
And there's a farmer's marketin town and I just kind of like
closed my eyes, gave them mydebit card, didn't want to look
at the price and I took it home.
(37:56):
I digest it perfectly, it is sodelicious, it is so delicious,
it is so phenomenal.
And my husband was like did youjust spend $9 on a loaf of
bread?
I was like you know what?
Yes, yes, I did.
Where do you live?
We're coastal Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, and it's the whole farmer's market scene.
I'm sure I did it.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
I'm a natural, at least 75% of the time, oh
goodness.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Well, okay, the second one is a gathering you
attended that made you feel astrong sense of belonging and,
if you could pinpoint it, whatit was that made you feel that
way.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I have a number of women that work for me
assistants and I determinedseveral years ago that we would
meet somewhere in the UnitedStates every year.
They're all over the UnitedStates and so we have a new one
planned for going to SouthCarolina, to Charleston.
But every year I would everyother year at least they would
(38:56):
come to my house and I wouldpick the best restaurants to go
to and topics we were going totalk about, pick the best
restaurants to go to and topicswe were going to talk about, and
we just spend all weekend beingfriends.
Come on Thursday, leave onSunday.
But because we have builtlike-minded values by being
together significantly over manyyears, we are close, we accept
(39:20):
one another's weaknesses andfailures and we laugh.
We're safe with each other sowe can laugh at things we
couldn't talk about online.
I would say that just beingwith them and it's coming up
really soon, it's exciting timeis really wow.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I love that, and that's kind of building with
what we're doing here at gatherand making room.
I have a part-time assistantand my website designer graphic
designer and goodness.
It is so amazing when, again,you work together, you grow
together, and it's so sweet whenit works personality wise
because that's not everybody'swork culture and so I'm thankful
(39:59):
that you have that and I'mthankful we have that here too.
Last but not least, this is afun.
So I'm thankful that you havethat and I'm thankful we have
that here too.
Last but not least, this is afun one.
I'm not sure if you haveanything for it, though.
Something you've discoveredrecently that you think everyone
should know about a random TVshow, an Amazon purchase, a
funky gadget.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I'm sure that there are a lot of things because I
require adventure in my life.
Well, I think that everyoneshould, if they can, fly to
Oxford and walk on the cobbledstreets and sip some strong tea
and go with a friend so they cantake time away from the
busyness of life and enjoy thisincredible city.
(40:44):
And so I would say that I'm onmy way there.
Pretty soon, I go there.
I spend a lot of time there.
So I would say you can't livewithout these trips that take
you away from life.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, I have such a longing, just lately, to go to
England for the first time.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
There's a slowness that I sense about it, that I
think I'm craving, I know, andyeah, it's just nice to get away
to a whole new place and have anew perspective, even if it's
just for a week or two.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Oh goodness, this is so silly.
What is that?
There is a show there, oldergentlemen, there's three of them
.
They talk a lot about cars andone of them has a Clarkson's
farm.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
And that's my last name, but I don't watch the show
, that's right.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Why is people listening?
Or probably like shouting it atme?
Cause they could think of thename grand tour, grand tour, yes
, the grand tour guys.
So my husband's a huge fan andone of them have since created a
farm, and so my husband, wewatched the show and so I think
he would agree to go to Englandwith me if we can go to the farm
(41:51):
.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Well it can be anywhere, but just getting away
sometimes is really a good goodfor the soul, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Goodness.
Well, this was rich and sweetand grace-filled, and I'm just
so thankful that you took thetime.
We appreciate you and I'm soglad we're connected.
Oh, me too.
Thank you so much Best friends.
Well, guys, thank you so much.
We will see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!