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June 11, 2025 72 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a
world gone mad. I'm your host,Seth Holhouse. Looking around
the country right now,especially looking at LA, we're
seeing chaos. And if you look atthe indicators of what's to
come, it's more chaos. Right?
So the riots that we're seeingout in California, there's

(00:34):
actually I'll pull it up foryou. There's a website, called
No Kings, and I'll I'll go overthis more in the show as well.
But I'll pull this up. Thiswebsite, nokings.org, it shows
you exactly what's going on. Andso on June 14, that is when
they're planning for nationwideprotests.
So you can even go on a map, andyou can say, hey. Okay. Let me

(00:55):
look up my ZIP code and figureout where I live, and you can
find a protest near you. So now,not to say that all these
protests are gonna be violent,Antifa, burning down buildings.
I imagine most of them won't be.
But can imagine, especially in alot of the bigger the bigger
cities where the police forcesare compromised, this could
probably get very hairy. And sojoining me today is Derek Brose,

(01:19):
who is someone that, I've hadhim before. He's a very, very
free thinker, and one of hismain focuses as an investigative
journalist is the rise oftechnocracy, the threat of
technocracy, the threat ofdigital and AI driven systems
being used as a weapon againstus. And so what we're gonna be
looking at today is the ICE orthese riots, these kinda anti

(01:42):
ICE riots out in California. Arethey some sort of bigger
picture, false flags, SIOP typeevent to get more Americans on
board with a Palantir, digitalAI prison system.
I guess it's the best thing youcan call it. Right? There's
another thing. Let's see if Ican find the post right here. I

(02:05):
think I I close yeah.
It's right here. So ICE ishere's the article. ICE is
paying Palantir $30,000,000 tobuild immigration OS
surveillance platform. And so,again, this this kinda ties into
the overall concern. Is this theHegelian dialectic?
Right? Is this the problemreaction solution? Problem, all
these immigrants flooding in. Wecan't track them. The reaction

(02:27):
is everyone's upset.
Everyone's scared. The solutionis digital ID, digital
surveillance. So that way weknow which ones are the bad
ones, but the problem is isthose systems can always be
turned on us. And, actually,most likely, they more often or
not end up always being turnedon us. And so we're gonna be
breaking down all this ontoday's show with Derrick Rose.

(02:48):
Derrick, it's great to have youback on the show, man. Thank you
so much for joining us today.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. Looks
like there's a lot to get intotoday.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah. There there there is. I mean, really, since
Trump's presidency, if if we'relooking at AI and digital prison
type stuff, you know, from thevery beginning, you know, with
the announcement of projectStargate with Larry Ellison, and
it it is kinda like, okay. Isthis a one off, or is it you
know, should we be worried? Nowwe've got Palantir, and we got
Peter Thiel, and and there'sjust, you know, objectively

(03:20):
looking at this.
It's not good what's beingbuilt, around us. And now we
have these massive riots out inLA, which we'll be getting into.
We've got plans for, you know,riots across the country, and
we've also got prominentconservative voices. Actually,
I'll I'll come up I'll pop righthere. You know, Laura Logan

(03:41):
saying, time to deploy Palantirtech to LA to deal with the
illegals.
You know you'd love to see it.You're lying if you say you
wouldn't. Well, I'm not lying byand saying, I don't wanna see
that weapon unleashed, againstan enemy because how long is it
before it's unleashed upon me?And so there's a lot to get
into, but I'll I'll just kind ofI'll I'll toss all that stuff

(04:01):
your way and just wherever youwanna start with this
discussion.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, I'll say on one hand,
it's a good thing that Palantiris part of the the ongoing
conversation, not only just inthe independent media,
alternative media space, whichhas been increasing, I think,
since the election. I thinkyou're aware that myself and
others have been warning thatthere was going to be a rise in
Palantir due to Peter Thiel andthe association with J. D. Vance

(04:28):
and support for Trump.
Even prior to the election,we're telling people this is
likely where things were gonnago. And I'm sad to say that it
appears to be correct. So on onehand, it's okay. I'm glad more
people are talking about it.Maybe a little too late,
hopefully not.
And even the mainstreams joiningthe conversation. Of course, it
does make me skeptical orsuspicious of like, why is it
okay to talk about this rightnow? You know, is it too late to

(04:50):
do anything about it? Is thereother moves being made? And then
as you said, this is all sort ofin the context of the larger
conversation around theimmigration issue, which is
itself, I think, very useful wayto divide people over, you know,
what their stances are on that.
And I'm sure even some of mystances might be controversial
to some in that regard. But Ithink ultimately, that is what

(05:13):
we're seeing is we're seeing theuse of immigration, the fear of,
you know, a legitimate fear ofcriminals coming in and things
of that sort being used to labelpeople gang members and then
deport them, you know, sort ofwith very little to no due
process. In my mind, gangmembers, just the new domestic
terrorist or the new COVIDdenier or the new post nine

(05:34):
eleven, you know, domesticterrorist extremist, etcetera.
It's another label that whilethere is some basis in reality,
we could clearly see how it'sgonna be that use will be
broadened and applied to allkinds of people. And it's been
kind of disturbing for me to seepeople who just two, three, four
years ago, during COVID nineteeneighty four, were very vocal

(05:54):
about people being labeled thesethings and being, you know,
protests being kind of attackedor people being taken out of
their homes depending on whatcountry you're speaking about.
And some of those same peoplenow not seeing how this label of
gang member, etcetera, is isplaying the same role. It's
doing the same thing. You know?Again, not to deny that there
aren't real issues aroundimmigration, but I think that's

(06:16):
probably, you know, maybe thefine the first fine point I
would make is that I thinkthat's what more and more people
need to take away is that theway that the predator class, the
ruling class, the pyramid ofpower operates is very much
through psychologicaloperations, as we know, and
through fifth generationwarfare. And what that means is
that we are very rarely, ifever, faced with a simple, this
is a good choice, and this is abad choice.

(06:37):
In fact, I think it's often thatwe're given two bad choices, and
neither move we make will begood for the people. So just to
kind of outline that a littlebit. Illegal immigration is
allowed to increase during theBiden years, and obviously, it
was still happening during Trumpand Obama. It's been happening
for years, but it definitelyincreased during Biden. And
people were showing a lot ofstories about that, particularly

(06:58):
in right wing media.
Some of those were fake and wereexaggerated stories, and some of
them were real. And a lot ofpeople still believe, I think,
some of these fake stories. Butthe point was people got the
message. You're in danger.Illegals are flooding.
This is an invasion, etcetera,etcetera, etcetera. That was
sort of ramped up and hyped upand, of course, promoted by
Trump and his people. We'regonna come in. We're gonna fix
it. We're gonna have the largestdeportation operation ever.

(07:19):
We're gonna get rid of all thebad guys. And a lot of people
are like, that's what I votedfor. That's what I want. I wanna
feel safe again, etcetera. Andwe know how safety, fear of
safety, or loss of safety isalways used in these operations.
So that sort of happens, and thereaction is, please make me feel
safer. Whatever you gotta do. Ifthat means increase the
militarization of the border, ifthat means I need to have a
digital ID, if that means weneed a biometric entry exit

(07:41):
system as Trump has called for,that's great. As long as we can
get rid of all these illegalsand these gang members, then I'm
okay with it. And, of course,reaction is exactly what the
predator class wanted all along,which isn't to increase the
militarization, to increasesurveillance.
So that is to say, it doesn'tmean that the immigration isn't
an issue that shouldn't bediscussed or paid attention to
or solution shouldn't bepursued. But ultimately, as I

(08:04):
said, we get one bad one badoption versus the other. Do
nothing and just let, you know,illegal immigration and, you
know, bad people sneak in withother people who maybe are
literally just trying to comeand empower themselves and
better their lives, whetherlegally or otherwise, or support
a police state in the pursuit oftrying to stop those bad people.
Right? Neither choice is really,you know, one that we I think we

(08:27):
should any freedom loving personshould just blindly embrace, but
that is what's been placedbefore us.
And I think that's really kindawhere we're at. It makes it more
difficult for people to kind ofnavigate this minefield because,
again, they can see that there'simmigration a prop is a problem.
And if somebody says Trump'sbeing bad, you know, he's
violating due process, he'sgoing after the people that are
like, what are you? Some radicalleftist? You don't care about

(08:47):
immigration.
You just want to open bordersand this and that. They have
that sort of visceral reaction.And then on the other side,
again, people who see theincrease of the militarization
and the police force, typicallyat the moment, people who are
more left leaning, they'rereacting to that. They're coming
out to protest and push backagainst this. And it kind of
just continues that falsedichotomy of left versus right,

(09:10):
because this side is all for it,maybe not thinking too deeply
about it.
And this side is completelyagainst it without maybe
thinking about the nuances ofimmigration that do exist. And
then it all just gets sort oflost in the middle. And then you
end up with two groups who in myview are cheering for their own
enslavement on either side, youknow? And it's it's just a it's
not an easy black and whitesituation as some of our peers

(09:32):
and other podcasters andjournalists might like it to
believe because that makes foreasy reporting when it's just
here's the bad guys. Here's thegood guys.
I think it's a lot more nuancedthan that. And, again, we're not
really in a position where wehave good options.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Unfortunately, you're absolutely right. It it this is
it's just a classic, you know,Hegelian dialectic. Right? It's,
you know, project or, problemreaction solution. But I feel
like that we're we're it's likewe're constantly stuck in, a
pincher movement.
Right? Where it's wherever yougo, there's these two opposing
forces that are always kindadrawing you towards one place.
Now I wanna pull up a a tweet.This is from, the Patriot Voice,

(10:08):
John Sable. He's a friend ofmine.
And I appreciate his honesty inkinda calling things out, But I
wanna read through this becausethis really helps kind of set
the stage for a lot of ourdiscussion. It really, you know,
kind of highlights exactly whatyou've been saying. So he says,
in talking about the riots, hesays, they intentionally create
the problem, illegalimmigration, to then elicit a

(10:28):
reaction from the people, sothey can then present the
solution, which is the Palantirpowered AI surveillance police
state. Now just on a on a sidenote, I've got actually let's
see where a little news articlehere I was gonna show you. Yeah.
ICE is paying Palantir$30,000,000 to build immigration
OS surveillance platform. Okay?So we'll we'll get into that. He

(10:49):
continues though. He says, thisis called Hegelian dialectic in
the good cop versus bad copscenario.
The Democrats play the side ofthe bad cop encouraging,
facilitating, and enablingillegal immigration while busing
in Soros funded Antifa todestroy cities when ICE tries to
deport them. The Republicans,MAGA, play the side of the good
cop by encouraging,facilitating, and enabling ICE
SWAT team, and even wanting themilitary to fix the problem

(11:11):
quickly, which would literallybe against the law because of
the commie sorry. PosseComitatis Act. Did I pronounce
that right? Posse Comitatis.
I think so. And it says, it isan illusion.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah. Yeah. That's and that's for those who aren't
aware.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah. Go ahead. I was

Speaker 2 (11:28):
gonna say that's just the that's the law that's
supposed to prevent militaryfrom being in civilian
interactions.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Oh, okay. Thank you. He says, it's an illusion that
either one side or the otherside is working for the good of
the American people. It's acarefully crafted SIOP and false
flag designed to manipulate thepublic at large into accepting
this AI police state, all in thename of your government keeping
you safe from terrorism. In, intime, this will be weaponized
against all of us.

(11:53):
It is clear that many havelearned absolutely nothing since
the passage of the Patriot Act,which is where this all started
and has now morphed into amonster. They're going to go
through as many major cities asit takes to get to us to get us
to accept this totalitarianresponse. It will noticeably it
it will get noticeably worse andworse. In other sides, both
sides of the coin are workingfor the benefit of making the

(12:14):
foundation of the AI policestate surveillance apparatus
doing the bidding of theirmasters at the WEF and UN. What
we are witnessing is the stateintentionally creating chaos to
then bring in a new ward orderpolice state system, in which
dissent will be swiftly crushed,and what is left of our rights
will be completely and totallyeviscerated.
So I wanted to just kind of seeyour thoughts on this. But in

(12:39):
addition to that, I I'd like youto also to kind of explain what
Palantir is. But I'll first,I'll let you, kind of respond to
what John said there.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
I think that patriot voice there, John, perfectly
outlined what I've been tryingto warn about since personally,
for me, this is something I'vesort of anticipated was coming
since the very first Trumpadministration. I have videos on
theconsciousresistance.comwarning about how the fight
against illegal immigration wasgoing to be weaponized to be
used to build and empower thepolice state. And one of the

(13:09):
ways to do that is, of course,Palantir. As you showed a moment
ago, there's, reports aboutPalantir working directly with
ICE. For those who don't know,Palantir was a company that was
actually founded right afternine eleven.
So post nine eleven hysteria,you know, gotta catch the
terrorists everywhere. There wasa program that launched called
total information awareness thatnot too many people might be

(13:31):
aware of. It was a governmentprogram. You may have seen the
logo out there, and it is a reallogo. It was a picture of the
earth, a globe of the earth withan all seeing eye pyramid sort
of looking over it.
And that was the original logofor the total information
awareness program. But it's, youknow, to me, it's a sign of how
far things have gone becausetwenty two years ago when this

(13:51):
program was coming out, peoplewere actually resistant about
it. There was, you know,organizations like the ACO and
others were writing about it.Even the mainstream was writing
saying this could be a danger toAmericans privacy and liberty.
That all

Speaker 1 (14:04):
changed their logo? That's literally their logo.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah. So the total information awareness Total
information awareness was aprogram of the information
awareness office. And that wasactually the DARPA government
logo right there. No joke. Andit's like they were, I think the
powers that wish they were postnine eleven thought, okay, we
can roll out the full new worldorder and they were kind of
testing it.
Then there was still too muchpushback. Here we are twenty

(14:29):
years later and you got peoplelike Laura Loomer saying, Hey,
roll out Palantir and use themto spy on the protesters or
whatever. But what's importantfor people to understand is, so
post nineeleven, totalinformation awareness, it's a
program to log all of ouractions, spy on everything we
do. Things that seem kind ofmundane now, but twenty years
ago were a bit scarier. They'vealready been normalized,

(14:50):
unfortunately.
And because of the publicpushback, they they did two
things. First, they renamed itfrom total information awareness
to terrorist informationawareness. They're like, okay,
maybe that's a little too on thenose. So they put it terrorist
information awareness. And thenafter enough public outcry, they
actually shut down the office.
I think it was 2005 when itactually shut down. It might've
even been the February. Andsince then though, most informed

(15:14):
digital privacy researchers havebeen able you know, account for
all the different programs thatthey were gonna put under TIA
have actually just beenseparated and piecemeal put in
other departments and othergovernment agencies, right? So
we didn't actually stop it. Wejust temporarily delayed it and
they took with this part andsaid, okay.
Well, we'll put that under theNSA. We'll put this under this
agency. And here we are twentytwo years later, and they've

(15:37):
effectively got that program.

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Speaker 2 (16:47):
The other important detail is that when total
information awareness was closeddown, some of the architects of
that program, including JohnPoindexter, started to meet with
two men who were just thenforming a new company in
02/2003, 02/2004, by the name ofAlex Karp and Peter Thiel. And
these are the co founders, amongothers, of Palantir. And, of
course, Palantir is the name forthe sort of all seen eye orb in

(17:11):
the Lord of the Rings. Theseguys are obsessed with Lord of
the Rings, so they named a lotof their companies and projects
after it. And so what they didwas they realized that, okay, if
we can't do this to thegovernment, if the people aren't
going to allow this, there'sjust too much resistance right
now.
Why don't we start working inthe so called private sector?
And I say that with air quotes,because I don't think if you're
taking millions of dollars fromthe government, if your first

(17:34):
client is the CIA, if you yourfirst investor is the CIA's
venture capital firm, Anqutel, Idon't know how private you can
really say you are, butnevertheless, they say they're a
private company. And so thegovernment worked with Palantir
to create these systems that nowmore and more people are aware
of. And so fast forward to 2025,Trump's second administration,

(17:54):
Palantir has dozens and dozensof contracts across the US
government. ICE is only one ofthem.
They're also partnering with theIRS. You can forget abolishing
the IRS. Now we're going to usePalantir to make it more
efficient. And there's more andmore areas. I actually wrote an
article recently at the lastAmerican Vagabond called Welcome
to the Palantir World Order thatsort of outlines these different
programs, the different agenciesthat Palantir is working with,

(18:17):
as well as all the differentPalantir and Peter Thiel
acolytes who are in the Trumpadministration and also in Doge
with Elon Musk.
And there's at least 20 to 25that I've found that are in very
important key positions thatworked for Peter foundation or
worked for Palantir themselvesor, you know, some sort of
affiliated organization becausethese guys like to start a lot

(18:40):
of groups and, venture funds andthings like that. The other
thing to remember is that bothPeter Thiel and Alex Karp,
again, the cofounders of thiscompany, which is, you know,
started with CIA funding and isnow very interlocked with the
second Trump administration,both of those men are also
steering committee members ofthe Bildenburg Group, which is
actually going to be meetingthis week. So how the

(19:01):
independent media did not seethe red flags coming prior to
the election, I have no idea.But I know that I was writing
many articles saying you haveBildenburg supporters, World
Economic Forum supporters, youngglobal leaders, and Zionist
technocrats on both sides of thetwenty twenty four election. It
wasn't that Kamala was gonna bebetter or anything like that,
but it was, I think, that nobodyhad any faith in Kamala, but a

(19:25):
lot of people thought Trump washere to save the day.
And that is why I was so, youknow, adamant of warning people
against that, not because I'mDemocrat or because I thought,
you know, there was a betterchoice. It was just that I could
see that there was a a gamebeing played. The rug was gonna
be pulled under people. And herewe are. We're barely six months
into it, and I think,thankfully, there's more people
asking these questions.
But we've got three and a halfmore years to go. Who knows

(19:47):
what's up next?

Speaker 1 (19:48):
So looking at Palantir and how to kinda piece
together the the the biggerpicture, right, looking at the
macro of this entire situationthat so you we have Trump
announcing the project Stargate,which was like, think, is a half
a trillion dollar series of datacenters, right, for competing
with AI Ring data. So,obviously, central to a a a

(20:11):
digital police state is yourdata centers. Right? This is the
brain of the entire operation.And so is Palantir is basically
is Palantir basically themachine that sits at the middle
of this that's pulling in allthis data, all the surveillance,
all the video feeds, all thesocial media, tax records,

(20:32):
Social Security information,everything.
And that's kind of the centralAI brain that would then run
potentially the a a a kind ofdigital police state. Is that
the role that Palantir howPalantir would fit into this?

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I do think that that is fairly accurate to say. I
don't want to say they're theonly company because, of course,
big tech and the government,they're very close and you've
got companies like OpenAI, butof course, OpenAI was part of
the Stargate announcement youmentioned. Just a sidebar,
OpenAI, Oracle, Oracle alsoanother company started with CIA
seed funding. It just doesn'tstop when you start digging in.

(21:08):
But Palantir is, I do think aunique company, not only because
of what I stated before that CIAfunding, Bilderberg steering
committee members, clearly animportant company, clearly
playing, you know, veryinfluential roles.
And Peter Thiel kind of singlehandedly funded J. D. Vance's,
original senate run-in Ohio,which you could argue led to him
becoming vice president. And,obviously, he's pretty much seen

(21:30):
as next in line after Trump. Soyou end up with a Bilderberg
Palantir approved technocrat inoffice.
The danger of Palantirspecifically, I would say, are a
couple of things. For one, yes,their AI program, they have
their own set of AI that they'reusing. And people may have heard
the term lavender. Lavender isan AI based program that is
powered by Palantir, which isactually helping the Israeli

(21:53):
government target Palestinians.You know, they claim it's just
to target Hamas terrorists, butanybody who's been watching
clips online for the last twoyears can see what's really
going on.
And, also, you can just look atthe words of Alex Karp and Peter
Thiel himself. They've saidopenly, the company put out a
big letter that they printed inNew York Times saying, we stand
with Israel. And, you know,they're they're proud of what

(22:15):
they're doing. And they say,okay, occasionally, innocent
people might be killed, but, youknow, we're making things more
efficient. So lavender is onepart of their AI program.
There's also the Gotham program,which is a program that I
encourage people, those of youwho are interested in you know,
doing this type of research tofile open records request or
Freedom Information Act requestwith your local police

(22:35):
department file Houston PoliceDepartment as an example,
foundry, Gotham these terms,these are some of the programs
that they're using. And youprobably would end up seeing
that your local policedepartment is already using this
software because there are manydozens and dozens of police
departments and I wouldn't besurprised if the Los Angeles
Police Department I know we'regoing talk about them soon are
already using this software to,they of course, they all they

(23:00):
sell it all on the the guise ofwe're gonna use this to track
criminals better. We're gonnause this to find the bad guys,
which is what we've always heardfrom, you know, post 09:11. And
then the foundry program that Imentioned. Foundry is what got
the attention of the New YorkTimes where, you know, this
first sort of bringing it intothe mainstream.
And this goes back to the factthat in, I think it was March,
Trump did an executive orderwhere he said he was going to

(23:22):
streamline a lot of the federalgovernment agencies and to
remove the silos. So basically,what they argue is that, like,
all the different agencies areso siloed and separated that
they're not able to properlycommunicate. And that's how
things like nine elevenhappened. Again, this goes to
the original, the official storyof nine eleven that, well, the
CIA knew this and the FBI knewthis, but they just couldn't

(23:45):
communicate because of our sillyarcane out of date laws. And so
we need to have more fusion ofall these different government
agencies.
And so Trump's executive orderwas another step in that
direction. Well, the New YorkTimes reported that Palantir's
Foundry is part of that, thatthat's one of the programs
they're using to startstreamlining these agencies to
start taking down the wallsbetween them. Now, in a perfect
world, in an ideal world, whichwe're not living in, you could

(24:07):
argue that could be a good thingfor people, right? Maybe the
government would run moreeffectively and, you know, it
would only target bad guys andand, you know, the people would
have more peaceful lives and allthat sort of thing. But I think
we all understand that's not thescenario we're living in.
We're not living with angelsrunning government, and, I don't
know if we ever will be in thatsituation. So then you end up
with people who we know seem tolike power, both left and right.

(24:31):
This isn't just about DonaldTrump, of course, who seem to
like power, are in control ofmassive amounts of data that in
many cases, we've all beenvoluntarily giving over to them
through social media, throughapps and phones and everything
else that we, you know,depending on what how you live
your life, you may have all thedevices in your home listening
to you all the time. So, there'scompanies like Palantir,

(24:52):
Clearview AI, which is anotherPeter Thiel funded company,
who've been just hoovering upall that data and then creating
databases of facial recognition,AI platforms, and things of this
sort. And they're using itprivately to sell to militaries,
to sell to police departments,and, of course, to sell to
government.
So it's a it's a worrisomesituation, and I do think

(25:13):
Palantir is is I said earlier,is something that more people
need to be paying attention to.And if you see this name
Palantir, you see this namePeter Thiel, I'm not saying you
should automatically assumeeverything associated with them
is evil, but it should give yousome pause. And I would
encourage you to dig furtherwhen you see their names crop up
because, they are a big playerin this, and I don't think
they're going anywhere. This iswhy I said, you know, earlier, I

(25:35):
I called my article, welcome tothe Palantir World Order because
I think that's, at least for themoment, we'll see. Right?
You know, they might they're theface right now for the moment.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
So I feel like that what we're up against is
technocracy. Like, that that'sreally kinda if you were to you
know, people have all theseideas of, okay, who are the
ruling elites, and, you know,what is the pyramid of power?
Now you've done, you know,multiple series on that, but
it's just this idea that, okay,they're the oligarchs, and we're
the slave class. But when youunderstand technocracy and and

(26:05):
the role of of the technocrat,like, with with the size of the
world and and thediversification of the world,
that's the only way you couldhave a centralized one world
government is through highlyadvanced digital, architecture,
right, to to achieve that. Now Iwanna pull up a quote from,
Brzezinski that he wrote back in1970.
He says, the technocrat era sothe technocratic era involves

(26:28):
the gradual appearance of a morecontrolled society. Such a
society would be dominated by anelite under unrestrained by
traditional values. Soon, itwill be possible to assert
almost continuous surveillanceover every citizen and maintain
up to date complete filescontaining even the most
personal information about thecitizen. These files will be

(26:49):
subject to instantaneousretrieval by the authorities.
It's crazy that that quote camefrom 1970.
Right? When it's like, oh, man.Like, so much has happened since
then. But, you know, onequestion I have for you is that
when you piece all this togetherand you look at Trump's run and

(27:10):
how towards, you know, kind ofthe latter end of his run for
his most recent, you know, winwin, you had all the big tech
CEOs coming out and supportinghim. Right?
Elon Musk, obviously, you know,front and center, but Peter
Thiel, you know, Bezos,Zuckerberg, all these different,
you know, kind of very powerfulpeople that just the previous
year or a couple of years beforewere censoring, even kicking

(27:33):
Trump off their own platforms,were laboring know, labeling you
and I as as terrorists andeverything. So there's this
weird about face where nowthey're all all of a sudden,
they're pro Trump, and Elon Muskis all about freedom, and and he
buys x, and he unleashes us. Nowwe have free speech again. And
but when you piece together theorigins of these companies and

(27:54):
you look at Facebook. Right?
Because it wasn't it was DARPALife Log. Right? The DARPA had
had Life Log, which was theirtheir own kind of military
industrial complex version ofFacebook as, like, a mass data
and surveillance system. The daythat ends is the day Facebook is
born. Right?
You even have Google, which Ithink Google was funded early on
by, the NSA. I think DARPA wasalso involved. You've got In Q

(28:15):
Tel being a Palantir. So if ifyou take a step back, you look
and say, wow. All of these,like, major, massive,
multinational tech, you know,companies all have ties to the
military industrial complex andthe alphabet agencies.
And, really, these deep stateapparatuses are you know, have
trillions in black budget, youknow, funds to do whatever they

(28:35):
want. So kind of piecing us alltogether, do you think that the
controllers or whatever youwanna call them, right, the the
elites or the technocrats, sawthe momentum and and probably
used AI to predict trends andeverything and saw the momentum
behind Trump and thought Trumpcan be our guy to actually bring

(28:57):
in the digital infrastructureneeded to create a global police
state. And that's and that's whythey all backed him. That's why
they got around him. That's whyYeah.
Even if hypothetically Trump hadthe best of intentions and was
thinking, like, come in andrestore America, you know, what
politician isn't beholden to,you know was it Mary Madelson
who done the like, was a$150,000,000. Right? You know,

(29:20):
there's still theserelationships happening behind
closed doors. So do you thinkthat a lot of that movement that
we saw with these, quote,unquote, tech CEOs, which are
really kind of, in a of ways,front men for military
industrial complex, you know,military grade, surveillance and
data systems, that basicallythat was what was going on here

(29:41):
is that we've is is kind of likea bait and switch where now
we've got this Yeah. I mean,what what do you think about
that?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
So you said a lot of good things there. And, just to
answer the question right offthe bat, yes, I do think that's
what's happening. I do want tojust take a step back about the
Brzezinski quote just to make itclear because I've seen that
quote and others being sharedaround. And I think some people
who maybe don't know who he islook at it as like, oh my god,
this guy was trying to warn usback in the seventies. But he
was a complete deep state agent.

(30:08):
He was an advisor to Carter allthe way through Obama, nearly
every single president. He wasinvolved with funding the
Mujahideen in Afghanistan, likehelping create Al Qaeda. Like,
this this is not a good guyhere.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
And He's like a Kissinger. Right?

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah. He's he's like right there with Kissinger. They
they helped start the council offormulations, the trilateral
commission. Trilateralcommission goes back to Columbia
University, which was the homeof the original technocrat
movement in the 1930s. So justto make that clear, this is not
a guy warning us.
This is a guy telling us theplan ahead of time. This is
often what these deep stateagents do. You know, nobody in

(30:42):
our circles or just even theaverage person tends to read
David Rockefeller's memoirs or abook by Zabigniew Brzezinski. It
was called America Between TwoAges, The Technotronic Era,
where he's describing this. AndI've said for a while that, you
know, the original technocratmovie of the night move movement
of the nineteen thirties andforties, it sort of petered out,
but it still remained in thebackground.

(31:03):
It petered out in the publicconsciousness. But then about
that time, 1970, wheneverBrzezinski is writing his book,
that was the revival. That wasthem saying, this is going to be
the new, you know, he kind ofcalls it technotronic instead of
technocratic. Regardless, he'sdescribing the same things, and
that quote is a really, I think,an important one that more
people need to be aware of. ButI just wanted to make that
clear.
This is not a good guy warningus. This is a guy who knew what

(31:24):
was coming because he was verymuch a part of building it,
telling anybody who wouldactually pay attention, this is
where we're going to head. Andin fact, there's another quote
in there that I don't havebefore me, but I I remember the
gist of it where he sayssomething to the effect that a
charismatic leader might rise upand help them create this. And I
think that is Donald Trump. Ithink you're very correct that,

(31:45):
the tech companies with all thedata they have on us, people
need to really look back, toCambridge Analytica, the
Cambridge Analytica scandal ofthe twenty sixteen election.
This made some news for a while.You know, there was a
whistleblower saying thiscompany is potentially illegally
scooping up all the data fromFacebook and elsewhere, and then
they're creating profiles onvoters to learn how to better

(32:07):
market to them. I think SteveBannon was originally involved
in Cambridge Analytica. He wasone of the board members or
something to that extent. Andthere's other politicians who
have said, yes.
I paid money to CambridgeAnalytica to try to, you know,
better market to my audience. Soin the most charitable view, you
say, okay, this is justpoliticians using the Internet,
and they're learning how tomarket to their people. That's

(32:27):
what every good business personshould do. Right? But in the
worst case scenario, youactually look deeper into
Cambridge Analytica, and theyhad something that they called
psychographics, which wasliterally them saying that they
could get it down.
They could create not justgraphics like digital material,
but just information and posts,internet posts and content
creators that were specificallyplay to our individual biases

(32:50):
and our wants and needs. So itwas like marketing taking to the
nth degree, right? They couldliterally they knew what things
would trigger this segment ofthe population and what things
would appeal to this segment ofthe population. Now, armed with
that data, you could essentiallycraft a character or a faux
populist resistance and say allthe right things and, you know,

(33:10):
feed that information to peopleover time and have them
believing that they are a partof the true resistance. And,
again, like I said, to start theconversation, clearly, the
Biden, Kamala, you know,Clinton, all them, they have
been, you know, horrible for along time.
I think that was also part ofthe operation done by design to
make them look as ridiculous aspossible. You don't have to be

(33:30):
some conspiracy theorist trutherto sort of look at the democrat
side and be like, wow, thosepeople are pushing transgender.
They're pushing this thing.They're pushing COVID shots.
Like, that doesn't make sense.
But these, you know, Trumpfolks, they seem to have some
common sense, and they're sayingthey're gonna get rid of all
these bad things. I count somefamily members among those
people who are not really deeplyeducated about this, but kind of

(33:51):
they have kids, and they'relike, I don't like what these
guys are doing. I don't reallylike everything Trump does, but
he sure seems to make a lot moresense. I think that was all by
design. I think this isabsolutely the good cop, bad cop
situation that, Patriot Voicewas describing earlier, and that
it's been a long time play sinceTrump's very first
administration and coming up towhere we are now.
And then you point out, ofcourse, all the big tech CEOs

(34:12):
sitting front row center at theinauguration. I think that's,
like, a perfect illustration ofwhat we have here. You know, the
billionaires, and I'm notsomebody who hates people just
because they're rich, but inthis case, people became
billionaires through governmentsubsidies, through military
industrial complex contractors.They didn't start a business and
work hard by pull up theirbootstraps, all this kind of
thing. They benefit directlyfrom CIA funding, as you said,

(34:34):
In Q Tel and others.
So this has been something I'vebeen trying to personally warn
about since the very first Trumpadministration because I could
just see that this was the sortof strong man that a lot of
people were hoping was gonnacome fix all the insanity that's
been going on. And, of course,that insanity only ramped up
during the Biden administration.And so, of course, people wanted
something different. They wantedsomebody to come up. Please save

(34:56):
us from all the bad people andget rid of the, you know, the
the censorship and these kindsof things.
And you perfectly outlined itwith Elon buying Twitter and
that sort of thing. I have beenlong labeled a black pillar or a
doomsayer for calling thesethings out. I think it's
becoming more clear and moreobvious, thankfully, people. And
it's not about being like, hey,was right. It was just to me,

(35:17):
this seemed kinda clear that ifthe movement of awakened people
is actually growing, which I dobelieve it has been growing
since the birth of the Internet.
You know, this movement of truthseekers has been around way
before the Internet. People usedto have newsletters and books
that existed talking about this.But then with the Internet, we
all got connected and we foundeach other like, wow, there's
people talking about this inAustralia and Europe and all

(35:39):
across The US and all over theworld. And we started to
organize better, and and the2,000 were a very big time for
reaching people through Facebookand through other places. And
then we started to see thecensorship in 02/1617, the
purges of 2018, and thenobviously during COVID.
This, I think, is, is just beena part of their plan to kind of
start controlling theresistance. And in fact, what

(36:01):
we're witnessing, I tend to callthe great inversion. I have an
essay on this on my website atthe conscious resistance if
people wanna go read that. Ibelieve this sort of full
resistance is part of that. Thependulum is essentially just
swinging back to the otherextreme.
On one hand, it's the know, likeI said, you got the Obama,
Clinton, Biden cabal, and thenpeople react to that and they

(36:21):
want something different. And sothe pendulum swings hard the
other way into a sort of foeresistance. And in my belief,
it's like that we're stilltrapped in that left right
paradigm, though. Need to kindof evolve and get beyond and
above that. But for the peoplewho are just kind of reading at
the surface level, they'reseeing, oh, well, the democrats
are crazy and these leftists aredestroying the country.

(36:42):
So Trump's here to save the day.And, of course, you have some
people who are like LauraLoomers who are, like, literally
cheering on their ownenslavement. But I think the
average person is probably justcaught in the middle of this and
trying to make sense. So I trynot to, you know, hold it
against people who seem to kindof be lost in the muck because
it's a lot to digest. But I dothink we need to start
contending with these realitiesthat there's not going to be a

(37:04):
politician that's gonna comesave us, and it's definitely not
gonna be Donald Trump.
But I would predict that in thenext couple years, there will be
another faux populist hero tocome save us from Donald Trump.
And then to say, you know, it'sjust gonna do the whole thing
again. Right? There's gonna bemaybe Bernie will run again and
that'll get the leftist thinkingthat like, okay, we're gonna win
in the system again. Or evenmaybe there's a somewhat of an

(37:27):
awakening to what Trump's doingand J.
D. Vance promises he's going to,you know, take the best parts of
Trump but leave all the badstuff behind. Whatever it may
be, it may be some character wehaven't even met yet who's slow
slowly rising up in thepolitical scene right now. But I
guarantee you, this tactic willbe used again because it seems
to work very well.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Here's the quote you had mentioned. This is
Brzezinski. He says, persistingsocial crisis, the emergence of
a charismatic personality, andthe exploitation of mass media
to obtain public confidencewould be the stepping stones in
the piecemeal transformation ofThe United States into a highly
controlled society. Is that thequote that you were thinking of?

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yep. That's it right there. Yep.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
So okay. So taking a step back, looking at I wanna
get your take on the Elon andTrump feud and how that fits
into this. Because, you know,what you mentioned, you know,
just as you're closing up thatkind of string of thoughts here
was that you you're trying tohelp that person that's kind of
in the middle looking aroundsaying, like, okay. I can't make
sense of this. Like, what'sreally going on?

(38:28):
And and that's what I see asbeing a big part of why I'm
doing doing this show, and andhaving guests like you is is not
to come on here and and becomeanother person, which is just
here's the absolute black andwhite truth. You know, believe
it or you're an idiot, but tocome on and say, okay. So what's
really going on here? Like,okay. Like, this doesn't make
sense.
If you trace that, that doesn'tmake sense. Because, like, we

(38:50):
have to be educated about thisstuff. And I see some I see a
lot of these really prominentconservative accounts on
Twitter. You know, ones thatsay, six months ago, I was right
in lockstep with them. Okay.
Hey. They they they really getthey understand the deep state.
But now these are the sameaccounts that are saying, like,
bring in Palantir. It's likelike you know, and talking like
that, it's like, where where'dthat come from? Like, I I don't

(39:13):
agree with that, but you can seethat a lot of their followers
are kinda following in alonglines.
And so kinda making sense of allthis and looking at even that
Elon and Trump kinda wholefiasco, like, what I noticed at
that time was that Palantir wasthe number one talked about
thing on the Internet at thattime. You you know, you go to
Twitter. It's everything that'stalking about Palantir. It's
just like, okay. Hey.
This is great. The next day youwake up, Palantir is not even

(39:36):
being talked about. All peoplecare about is, oh my gosh. Elon
said that Epstein files hadTrump information in them, and
it's a whole the whole worldquickly just kinda forgot about
Palantir. Like, how do you howdo you make sense of that?

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah. I tend to agree with that assessment, you know,
that because, you know, onething I'll say is we have a
tendency, just speaking broadlyin the truth movement, you know,
freedom seeking movement, tomaybe always assume one thing is
a distraction from another.Obviously, we live in a big
world and there's a millionthings going on. Right? And so
maybe there's more than onething that's important and we

(40:10):
can hold more than one idea.
But in this case, I agreewholeheartedly with what you
just described there that I sawthe same thing. Palantir is
everywhere. Oh my God, I wokeup. People are sending me, look,
New York Times is talking aboutPalantir. So and so is talking
about Palantir.
It's like, oh, wow. Okay. Maybethere's something going on here.
And then the next day, ofcourse, friends start sending me
screenshots of Elon mentioningTrump in the Epstein files, that

(40:32):
becomes a new thing. So I dotend to be skeptical of this,
especially I think it'simportant for those who,
including myself too a bit here,who live on X, who live on
Twitter, and maybe don't use anyother social media platforms, to
step out of that bubble fromtime to time.
Because it is a bubble and it'sabsolutely a pro Trump centric

(40:54):
bubble. Obviously, there's otheropinions, but for the most part,
the big accounts that I wouldargue are algorithmically pushed
and promoted are absolutely theones who are backing Trump at
all costs. Like you said, peoplewho maybe six months ago you
thought had some principles andhad some values and they're like
standing by things. Now yourealize, oh, they don't actually
have principles. They just careabout the personality, and

(41:14):
they're gonna follow thispersonality no matter where they
go, and they're gonna, you know,do their due diligence to praise
Trump even at all costs evenwhen it makes them go against
the things that they claim to befor and against.
So I am skeptical that thetiming of that was maybe done to
pull us away from the Palantirconversation. Because the first

(41:35):
thing I saw is the New YorkTimes reports on Palantir and,
the the Foundry program. Andimmediately sort of MAGA world,
especially on Twitter is like,no. This is fake news. Of
course, like the knee jerkreaction.
It's New York Times. This isgarbage. But, really, a lot of
the things they're reportingthere weren't new. This is stuff
that I and others, Whitney Webband others, been reporting on
for quite a while now. So, youknow, I was that's kind of how

(41:57):
it sounds like, look.
Okay. You don't trust the NewYork Times. Here's a bunch of
other reports. Here's Wiredmagazine. Here's these other
examples to see how big Palantirhas grown.
And then, of course, it wasreally sad to see people like
Alex Jones, I mean, just, like,come to the defense like, oh,
you guys are just blowing thisout of proportion. This is not
the same Alex Jones that woke meup in 02/2009, who told me that
the left right paradigm was alie. It was part of the control

(42:20):
structure that one day thetechnological and scientific
elite would try to ruleeverything and essentially do
what we're seeing now. AlexJones in his defense or at least
trying to downplay Palantir didnot mention the Bilderberg group
one time. You know, this is thesame Alex Jones.
I know there's people who thinkhe's a clone or whatever, but
it's the same Alex Jones as faras we know who used to go to the

(42:42):
Build A Bear group and shout atthese people with, you know,
with bullhorn and call them out.And now his guy, Trump again,
this is an example of followingpersonality and not your
principles, his guy, Trump, isworking with two steering
committee members of theBildenburg group, and there's
not a peep out of him. There'snot a mention of it. There's
nothing no discussion of that.And that is just it's mind

(43:02):
blowing.
It's it's unfortunate, but it'snot the first or the last time
we will see that. And so, youknow, I'm I'm kinda just you
know, the feud gathered up allthe news cycle and took all the
air out of the room for a day orso. Maybe nobody's really
thinking about it now. One otherthing I'll add to there, there
is a theory floating around andof course we don't have the
evidence for it, but it's atleast worth considering. Because

(43:24):
Trump I mean, because Musk andPeter Thiel, for those who don't
know, they're both part ofwhat's called the PayPal mafia.
They're both co founders ofPayPal. So they've known each
other for decades. They go backas well. And they both were
involved with the big techdecision telling Trump to pick
JD Vance as his vice president.That was reported in the summer
twenty twenty four all over themainstream that they're the ones

(43:46):
who actually told Trump, hey.
This is who you should have foryour VP when Trump was doing a
fundraiser in San Francisco inSilicon Valley. I think it was
June 2024. And at that meeting,according to several people
there, he said, so who do youguys like? You know? Who's who's
the peep who's somebody I shouldlook at?
And they all said, JD Vance.That's the man. So this guy is
the pick of the technocrats.Right? And it could be possible,

(44:07):
like, let's say the mostcharitable situation here.
For those who are hearing thisand like, I don't know, guys. I
still think Trump's fighting thedeep state. They just have
overpowered him. He's going upagainst too big of forces. If
that's your belief, that's fine.
Okay, imagine that. But even ifthat is the truth, which I don't
necessarily believe, thenthere's a potential that the

(44:28):
technocrats have ganged up onhim. Maybe this whole thing was
about, like, let's support himas much as we can, get him in
office with our guy as the VP,and then get all these contracts
we want, get Elon up in there,and get all his people in Doge.
And then Elon steps away fromgovernment. There's some big
feud.
They start attacking Trump. Youknow? Could this, down the line,

(44:49):
lead to I don't think Trump willactually be impeached or
something like that. But that'skind of the theory some people
are playing with. Like, hey.
Maybe this was let's be friendswith Trump, get him in office,
and then turn our backs on himbecause we already got our guy
in the vice presidency, andthat's really all we need. We've
got all our contracts. So that'sone option as well. So none of
us can say for certain whetherTrump is aware or if he's being

(45:10):
played. I tend to think he isaware and he's playing a role.
But either way, the outcome, Ithink, is headed in the same
direction.

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I a.
You know, I said there's twovery unhealthy syndromes in
America. There's TDS and TWS.There's Trump derangement

(46:43):
syndrome and Trump worshipsyndrome. And, you know, I you
know, for me, like, I I don'tworship any man. That's just
that's my own principles.
And, you know, I I I, you know,I try to look at Trump
objectively, and I think there'scertain people that watch this
interview and say, oh, you'reanti Trump, and you're black
pilled. And because they they'vebeen through so much trauma, you
know, the past especially thepast four or five years, it's

(47:05):
like you can't now tell themthat what they've been hoping
and praying for for the lastfour years that finally came
true is also not true. It's likeit starts to break the reality
open. But for me, I'm looking atthis and saying objectively.
It's like, okay.
Say we have a neighbor, and sayyou really trust this neighbor a
lot, and he's a a good gunman.You live in in, like, a bad
neighborhood. And so he says,hey. You know what, Derek? I'm

(47:27):
gonna I'm gonna mount thislittle machine gun up here, so I
can watch your house.
And if there's any bad guyscoming, there's I'm I'm I can
I'm a machine gun. I can I canmow them down? You might be
like, okay. Mino, I've I'veknown you for ten years. You're
great.
Thank you. I love I love thepeace of mind. The problem is is
when that guy moves out and thenext guy moves in, if that same
system is still there, that samemachine guns, what what if this

(47:49):
guy's a serial killer? Now he'sgot a gun pointed at your house.
And that's how I look at thesesystems.
Even if hypothetically Trump isa saint, and he he was sent here
on a mission by God to to freeAmerica from the deep state. If
these systems are being put intoplace, once he's out, what if
the next person that comes in isGavin Newsom or, you know, like

(48:10):
a Klaus Schwab type character?And and now they've got this
massive apparatus that Trump mayhave built for the good of the
people, but now can be used forthe evil will of the elites.
That's

Speaker 2 (48:23):
what concerns me. That's the danger of what Laura
Loomer and people like her arecalling for. Right? It's like
saying, okay. Well, roll outIt's so crazy to me.
It's like after everybody hadtheir moan of outrage, she and
other MAGA are just full onembracing it. Now, of course,
she's really close to Trump, soI think she's probably going to
be the sycophant to the veryend. But saying roll it out,

(48:43):
Palantir. Go after all theseprotesters and these illegal
immigrants. Exactly what yousaid.
Okay. Even if you thought thatwas the best move ever and Trump
is a saint, are the democratsgonna use it the same way in a
way that you like? Or is JDVance or some other future
president? There's no way toknow. And ultimately, I believe
that is part of the operationbecause you can I mean, I'm only
40 years old?

(49:04):
So I started paying attention topolitics at 18 in a vague way,
anti war, anti Iraq war, watchthe bombings happen. That kind
of radicalized me at a young agebefore I really kind of woke up
and realized both parties aresort of serving the same
masters. But when you start tostudy, you see, okay, well, Bush
was just picking up on policiesthat started before him, then he
passed those on. Then Obama camein claiming he was gonna be the

(49:25):
constitutional lawyer and, yeah,end the spying and the wars.
Then what did he do?
Did the same thing, expanded it,became the drone king. And then
Trump comes in and says, youknow, it's just this baton that
kinda gets passed back andforth. And sure, there are
differences. We could talk aboutdifferences when it comes to
abortion or transgender issuesand these sorts of things. But
when it comes to war, when itcomes to surveillance, when it

(49:45):
comes to Zionism, when it comesto a lot of these bigger issues,
I think it doesn't reallychange.
The ground is laid by Biden andthen people complain about it
and then Trump comes in and hepicks up the baton and builds on
it and does his own thing. Thenhis people say, No, no, no, it's
a thing when he's doing it. AndI think that's just what people
should also kind of look at in adeeper way, the foundation of

(50:07):
these systems, that as long aswe're playing those back and
forth, I don't think we're evergonna really see change. What
we're gonna see is moredisappointment, more hope and
change, more make America greatagain, whatever it is, slogans,
and people are gonna fall forthem. And I I just don't think
that that's the way to, buildinga better world.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
And so what can we do? And this is something that
I'm I'm constantly thinkingabout. Obviously, if if I had my
way and and, you know, life waswhatever you I I wanted to be,
I'd probably sell up everythingand move my family to, like, a
little shack in a Caribbeanisland and and just live out my
days, you know, off grid. Right?But I'm not gonna do that for a

(50:46):
lot of different reasons.
So, like, what are like, forpeople that see this, like,
obviously, you think, okay. Soduring, you know, Biden, you're
seeing all these bad thingshappening. Okay. Hey. If we can
just get Trump in, we can undo alot of these things.
We can close the border. There'sa lot of this external pressure
that we put onto White House andthe DC circuit. Like, okay.

(51:08):
They're gonna make the changesthat we need to create, you
know, freedom and prosperity inAmerica. But in this situation
where we've, you know, had amassive change, you know, in in
the the ruling class of America,we have a new president.
We've got a lot of, you know,kind of conservative Republican
control of the government now,and we see what's happening.
What can we do? Because, youknow, anybody that says, oh,

(51:30):
well, midterms or whatever, it'slike, like, forget about you.
Right? Yeah.
Like, but, you know It's

Speaker 2 (51:35):
not sufficient enough.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
No. No. It's like, what are what are some practical
things that we can do, though?

Speaker 2 (51:41):
That's the question. Right? I mean, I and I'm I'm
glad glad you're asking this,and we're we're getting into
some of this. Of course, I willjust preface this by saying I
don't claim to have all thesolutions. I think I have some
ideas that have worked for me.
I also wouldn't rule out thatCaribbean Island just yet. The
future might necessitate it. ButI think fundamentally, one of
the things is what we've justbeen discussing here for the
last few moments is questioningthe foundation of the very

(52:05):
system. I don't even mean justThe United States, but just
politics in general. You know,personally, I am a voluntarist,
which is sometimes called ananarchist.
It just means that I believethat all relationships should be
voluntary and consensual. And sofor example, you and I, we
arranged an interview, we'reboth choosing to be here.
Nobody's got a gun to either ofour heads. We're having this
dialogue. This is completelyvoluntary and consensual.

(52:26):
Right? And I think most peoplewould say they want the
relationships to be that way.You don't want to be forced to
associate with people that youdon't necessarily want to for
whatever reason. And, you know,that's that's a foundational, I
think, importance of all humanrelationships. But then when you
start to kind of look at how weinteract with government, we
realize that government is notvoluntary nor consentual,

(52:46):
because we're forced to paytaxes, we're forced to do other
things.
And all of those things are doneat the threat of violence. Think
most people would say, sure,they might want to contribute
some money if it's going to goto better schools in their
community or fix the roads, butthey don't necessarily wanna be
funding bombs in in Israel. Theydon't wanna be funding the
surveillance state. They don'twanna be funding this thing, or
maybe they don't wanna fund, youknow, other programs. The point

(53:07):
is that all of those things arebeing done at the threat of the
gun.
We all know that if you findways to avoid taxes, you run the
risk of the IRS coming afteryou, men with guns showing up at
your house, starting to askquestions, starting to go
through your accounts, auditingyou. Eventually, could get to
the point of garnishing yourwages. And in the long term, it
could get to putting you in acage if they say, well, you
didn't pay your extortion feeand things like that. That's the

(53:29):
very opposite of a consensualand voluntary relationship. So
this leads me to essentiallybeing, yeah, like I said, a
voluntarist and an anarchist.
It doesn't mean that I believethere's gonna be some perfect
utopian world that is evenpossible. I think my days of
believing in such a thing havehave faded from the early days
of my activism, but I still holdthose values to be fundamental
for me. And the reason I sharethat is to say, even if you

(53:52):
don't fully subscribe to thosebeliefs, I think getting to the
root of our problems is reallythe key. Know, I can throw out
some other ideas, practicalthings, but I also think on a
spiritual and psychologicallevel, we have to question the
foundations of the system thatthat we're all born into that
says, you know, there's a personout there that is, smart and

(54:12):
intelligent and bright enoughand cares about you, and we all
just need to go vote them. Andthat one person working with
these other people, these otherflawed humans just like us are
gonna fix all of our problems.
It what is essentially happeningis we're outsourcing our power.
Now granted some of the problemswe're facing, you and I can't
solve on our own, you know, youand I and our neighbors can't
just go fix the border, or wecan't, you know, stop the bombs

(54:34):
dropping and things like that.So I understand that that a lot
of the problems are out of ourhands. They're essentially out
of our hands. And unfortunately,they're in the hands of
psychopaths who do not have ourbest interests at heart.
But I think on a foundationallevel, besides practical things,
like, I think it's great toavoid big banks and switch to
local credit union. I think it'sgreat to opt out of the facial

(54:54):
recognition at the airport, toopt out of any sort of apps that
require facial scanning and anybiometrics, to opt out of this
growing technocratic state whereand when you can. Those are
important, and I live by those,and I promote those, and those
are all in my book, and peoplecan download that for free. But
if we just keep marching forwardand expecting that every two to

(55:14):
four years, like you said,people are gonna start talking
about the midterms soon, andit's gonna be, oh, this is how
we're gonna solve everything,but we're not going to. We need
to grow up, I think.
We need to recognize that tryingthe same thing over and over and
expecting different results isthe definition of insanity, and
that people have been trying thesystem over and over and over. I
mean, even if you're the mostdiehard constitutionalist, and

(55:35):
that is, I think, a verypowerful historical document,
the constitution has not beenfollowed for a long time. The
constitution has been there's agreat quote actually from one of
the early American,individualist anarchists who's a
brilliant man named LisanderSpooner. People can go look him
look him up from the eighteenhundreds. He has this really
brilliant quote, and in one ofhis essays called the
constitution of no authority.

(55:56):
And you have to think that thisguy is writing fifty to sixty
years after the constitution hascome into power. So, like, he's
living it right then. Andalready, he was pointing out
examples of how the federalgovernment was already starting
to become powerful back then.And he I remember there's even a
part where he says, they haveGatling guns now. There's no way
we're gonna defeat them throughviolence and force.
That was way before drones. Buteven back then, he's like,

(56:18):
they've already got enoughmanpower that we can't stop them
physically, and they're alreadyviolating the constitution. And
so he says, either theconstitution was, incapable of
preventing the growth of thegovernment, and in that case,
it's, you know, it's it'sbasically meaningless, or it
actually allowed it, and in thatcase, it's actually a danger to
humanity. So one way or theother, you know, I know some

(56:40):
people like to uphold it as thissort of almost biblical document
that, you know, is isinfallible. But one way or the
other, the constitution itselfwas not capable of preventing
what we're seeing today twohundred years later.
You know, the government hasgrown well beyond those means.
And we could argue, well, theydidn't actually follow it if
only we had people following it.But then that goes back to my
argument about the thefoundation. Humans are flawed.

(57:02):
We all know this.
Like, we are not the creator. Weare the creation, and we are
flawed. And so if we keepoutsourcing our power and
thinking that other flawedhumans are going to be like God
and perfect and run things andnot have any conflicts of
interest and not make anymistakes or not look out for
their own egos and things likethat, we are going to continue
cycling through this over andover. And I I really do fear

(57:24):
that because I don't think thecoming generations will ever
know freedom if we don't find away out of this cycle that
allows this this violence tocontinue. And so, I mean, I kind
of think I know that's not aperfect.
Here's a to do list. One, two,three. I do have such things in
my book, how to opt out of thetechnocratic state. People can
download that for free attheconsciousresistance.com/howto

(57:45):
and, learn more about that. ButI just wanted to kind of focus
on that.
I think that really there's somefoundational things that we need
to assumptions that we need toquestion here so that we don't
just keep having thisconversation in four more years
when there's a new president,you know, and then when there's
another one coming alongpromising to save the day. I I
would I I really would like tonot live the rest of my life
just watching people makingthese same mistakes over and

(58:08):
over and watching populistmovements arise, and then people
get disappointed as that personsells out or embraces things
they claim they were against.And we've seen it on the left.
We've seen it on the right. AndI I don't know if it's gonna go
anywhere.
So instead, perhaps it's up tous to start questioning those
assumptions.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
And I think one of the most important things we can
do is just have conversationslike this, is is just questions
of just asking, oh, okay. Whatdoes this look like? And, yeah,
that that's kinda concerningover there. And, oh, here with
this Palantiri thing, and, youknow, God is showing trying our
best to show people what'sreally going on. Right?
To kinda pulling the the maskoff a little bit and say, okay.

(58:45):
Well, this is actually whatPalantir is. It's actually what
Facebook is. Right? And so,hopefully, people you know, if
people have made it this far,and they're not angry for us not
coming on here and saying thatTrump, you know, can can do no
bad, I think that I encouragepeople to share this
conversation because I, like, Ilook at this as I know you've
you see it for what it is, andyou've dedicated a large chunk

(59:06):
of your life, to fight againstthis.
But I look at the rise of AIand, technocracy and these
digital systems as the greatestthreat to our our freedom. I
mean, much as, say, a coupleyears ago, it was, you know,
communist overthrow or this or,you know, different kind of
neighboring enemies or whateverwhatever it was. Like, I really

(59:27):
do believe, though, that the therise of a digital police state,
is our greatest threat. Look atChina. Like, you know, go look
at Mainland China.
What what's it like to livethere with facial recognition,
like, different zones? Like, youcan't even go into the other
zone, you know, without having aface a face scan. Like, they
know where every person is atall times in in that country.

(59:47):
They've got hundreds of millionsof cameras everywhere, and
that's not that's not thesociety I wanna live in. And so
even though I can't overthrow agovernment or I can't, you know,
run for office and make some bigchange, I can at least do my
very best to get as manyAmericans as possible to ask
these questions.
I know that you've done a greatjob in in doing that. And so I I

(01:00:10):
thank you for giving us yourtime, and thank you for just
what you've made your yourlife's mission.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Absolutely. And I just wanna emphasize that. I
agree with you, man. I thinkthat this is the fight of our
lives. I mean, this is is whyI've been kind of in through my
journalism and activism, I'vefocused on digital privacy for
years.
It's just became a big importantpiece of the puzzle for me. But
I focus on other issues. To besure, there's plenty of other
things debate and to get into.There's other threats to

(01:00:36):
humanity. But in 2019, when Istarted to just realize that at
that point, AI was very much inits infancy, at least publicly,
as far as we know, I'm surethere's private military AI
that's been around for muchlonger than we even know.
But facial recognition, thesethings were were clearly a
danger. And there was not reallytoo many people talking about in
2019. And then I published mybook in 2020. It was because of

(01:00:57):
this is because to me, like,alright, I need to like narrow
my focus. Think this is thethreat technocracy, AI, facial
recognition, what they'rebuilding.
And I'm grateful that five yearslater, we're having these
conversations and that othersare having these conversations.
I really hope people will kindof question some of the
fundamental assumptions again ofhow we got here. And, before we

(01:01:17):
we wrap up, I did want to I knowyou mentioned this to me
earlier. I did wanna at leastspend a moment, on these, these
protests in LA because I thinkyou had some important things to
share that I

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
wanted to comment on. You actually, one thing I wanted
to pull up was this just thiswebsite right here, this no
kings. So this is nokings.org.This appears to be the main
organization that's that'sdriving this. Now one thing
they're talking about is on June14, they're hosting a nationwide

(01:01:47):
rise up.
Right? That's what they call it.So this right here, then this is
crazy. This is a map of all ofthe different protest locations
that are happening on June 14. Imean, this is just like look at
the density.
Say you're over here in Bostonor I mean, absolutely insane,
but this is what they've gotplanned is literally massive

(01:02:10):
nationwide protests, and whoknows what this could turn into.
I guess just be prepared. Right?But, anyway, I'll I'll let you
comment on this, though, Derek.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yeah. So, I mean, I hadn't seen this until you
brought it up to me prior to usstarting this conversation, and
I started to look at check outthe partners page there. And if
people look at that, I mean,it's pretty much a who's who of,
of left wing kind of Democratorganizations. Some of them are
more mainstream. Like, you gotCatholics voting for common
good, climate hawks, you know,there's all kinds of groups, you

(01:02:40):
got green peace, stuff likethat.
So it definitely seems to melike familiar movements I've
seen in the past that are thattend to be left wing and things
of that sort. And I think a lotof this audience probably won't
won't jive with, obviously, theleft wing or democrats. You know
what? The thing I wanted to addto this that I find interesting
is I often find myself at theseevents because not only as a

(01:03:01):
journalist, but because as aswe've outlined here, I don't
support Trump's agenda in manyways. I don't support things
that are going on.
I definitely wouldn't say Icould attend one of these
protests and be perfectly inline with every poster I saw or
every flyer I saw being handedout. But that's kind of a
position I'm used to being in. Imean, just as an example, I was

(01:03:21):
speaking out at COVID protest inHouston, Texas, where I'm
originally from, and it lookslike there's no Kings are gonna
be there as well. There'll besomething happening in Houston.
I was speaking at events againstCOVID.
And most of these events werepeople who are waving like blue
lives matter flags, are wavingTrump flags and things that
again, like aren't really mypositions. But I try to put

(01:03:41):
those things aside when there'sa bigger issue. Like I can sit
there and have a cup of coffeeor I can march along somebody
even recognizing like, allright, we're not gonna agree on
every single issue, and that'sokay. But at this moment, we're
standing at that time, it waswe're standing against COVID
tyranny. Right?
So maybe this person likes Trumpmore than I do, and I think they
might have some blind spots, butI'm gonna stand with them

(01:04:02):
because this issue matters. Andthe funny thing is, remember at
the COVID protest in Houstonduring COVID, some of my
activist friends who might bemore left leaning, they showed
up and they start counterprotesting. So of course, they
see me there and in their mind,I'm just some right winger,
blah, blah, whatever, you know,people who are still stuck in
that kind of dichotomy. And Isaw the same thing happen when I

(01:04:23):
was there as a journalist at theGeorge Floyd protest in Houston,
I actually got arrested filming,you know, just some of the
scene. And Houston wasn't like alot of the other cities.
Houston's not really a placewhere riots happen and violence
has just never really been apart of the his the city's kind
of movements. But sure, peopleare out in the streets doing
their things. And once again, Idefinitely wouldn't agree with
every sign there. I wouldn'tagree with every position. But

(01:04:44):
broadly speaking, there weresome things I did agree with.
And so I often find myself inthese kind of unique positions
where, okay, I can agree withone thing. I wish there was a
different group organizing, likewith this No Kings thing, just
an example. Like, I wish itwasn't being organized by groups
that are obviously connected tothe DNC and obviously connected
to the Democratic Party, right?I wish that there was a movement

(01:05:04):
of like us that was out thereorganizing and saying, yes, we
don't like Elon Musk, and wehave questions about Donald
Trump and Palantir, but we alsodon't blindly accept your
progressive agenda either.Right?
Like, where's that movement at?I don't know. We're not really
organizing in the streets. Butso I just wanted to say that,
that I I do think it's importantpeople to get out in the streets
and to to I think protest stillhas a place. I also think it's

(01:05:26):
unfortunate that in the case ofthis, like if you're somebody
hearing this and you've gotquestions about Peter Thiel and
Donald Trump, etcetera, going toone of these protests, you're
probably gonna be surrounded bypeople who are more left
leaning, democratic voters,maybe left wing radicals of
different types.
And if you're okay with that,then go there. Try to find
alliances. I think it isimportant to build bridges. And

(01:05:46):
at the same time, I alsounderstand yours and other
people's kind of, concern ofseeing the massive protests and,
like, are we in for anothersummer of twenty twenty where
this is gonna turn into, youknow, violence in some cities?
That typically is isolated.
Like, saw I mean, sometimes ithappens in New York. It happens
in LA, Chicago, some of thosekind of cities. Like I said,
Houston's not really a place. SoI would not wager that every

(01:06:11):
single one of these dots on thismap is gonna turn into some kind
of bad, scary situation, but Iwouldn't be surprised if a few
of them do. And, who benefitsfrom that?
Well, probably Palantir,probably the military industrial
complex, probably a lot of thesepeople that were sitting at the
front row of Trump'sadministration. So it's gonna be
interesting. You said that'scoming up June 19?

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
June 14. Actually, thought you you mentioned about
I I I can imagine there's gonnabe a fair bit of these, which
are just a bunch of old whiteliberals sitting in lawn chairs
holding up a sign that says,like, honk if you you know? Like

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
They're not all, like, as radical as people like
to make them out to you. That'swhat kind of my point is. Like,
I get that some people might seethis and, like, oh my god. It's
about to be, you know,revolution or something, but
most of them are gonna be that.These are gonna be, like, old
Bernie supporters, old hippieswho are

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Young college kids

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
six things

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
with signs and pickets. Some

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
of them might have radical beliefs. Some of them
are just like, hey. Things arebad. I wanna go hold the sign.
And most of the time, the peopleshow up, and they're holding
some sign that was premade bysome big organization, which may
have George Soros links, andthey have no idea what they're
doing.
They're just like, okay. Yeah. Igenerally agree with this. They
do their couple of hours, andthen they leave, and they go to
the cafe, and they move on withtheir life. That's what most of

(01:07:21):
them are are my experience.
For the most part, highlyineffective, highly ineffective.
Like sure, it's important. Idon't wanna discourage people
from expressing themselves andgetting on the streets for
causes they believe in, whetherit's this one or anything else.
But in my experience, if that'swhere it ends and it's like,
okay, we did our few hours inthe sun, we held some signs, we
chanted, we yelled at somepeople, passed out a few flyers,

(01:07:42):
that can feel powerful. It canbe like, yes, I'm expressing
myself.
That's an important step in Ithink the process of becoming an
awakened being. But if that'swhere it ends, nothing's gonna
change just like with voting.And, like, those things alone
aren't going to fix ourproblems. So whether this is
your movement or some otherfuture movement, again, I invite
people to maybe look at some ofthe deeper foundational problems

(01:08:02):
we have and see how we can pullaway from those.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
I I couldn't agree more, man. I'll bring your
website up one more time. I'llput I'll put the link in the
description as well. Theconsciousres the
theconsciousresistance.com.You've got a bunch of resources
on there.
Tons of resources. Alsoencourage people to follow you
over at Twitter. What what'syour handle? This is derek at
derekbros? It's

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
just d as in Derek, bros, my last name, live free.
So d bros live free.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Okay. There we go. Well, Derek, thank you for
coming on, man. It's it's alwaysgreat speaking with you. And I I
hope hopefully, this thisconversation reaches a lot of
ears because we need to behaving these discussions, if we
care about the future of ourcountry.
And, again, I I don't wanna fallinto either either side of that,
either deranged, you know,syndrome or worship syndrome.
Wanna be in the middle where I'mjust I'm vigilant. I I'm saying,

(01:08:52):
okay. I like these five things,but I don't like those three
things. And it's like, the moreAmericans that can do that and
think independently, that'swhat's gonna lead us out of
this.
And I appreciate what you'vebeen doing to help people, with
that process.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
I 100% agree. And thank you for the position
you're staking and for, yourpodcast. I've been catching up
on some of your recent episodes.You're doing great work,
brother, and I appreciate yourvoice out here. We need more
like you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Thank you so much. So I hope that was a beneficial
interview, for you. Hopefully,it wasn't too much of a black
pill interview. But as we weclosed out, and I think it's
important for us to have thesediscussions because I wanna be
aware of what the threats are. Iwanna be aware of what's
happening that could affect mydaily life, that could affect
the future of this country formy children, and so much more.
And, you know, one thing thatI've become way more aware of

(01:09:37):
right now is just the importanceof privacy. I'm thinking, okay.
Gosh. Like, look at all thesedifferent smart items. And and,
like, my wife and I, we're very,very vigilant.
We don't get smart TVs and allthis stuff, but it's it's still
everywhere, this technology. AndI've been really doing a a
pretty fundamental, like, Iguess, assessment of how secure
am I? How much of my informationam I sharing with these digital

(01:10:00):
systems? And that's a once youstart asking that question, it
is a long journey. But what'sinteresting is that I'm actually
putting on this week with aprivacy literally, the privacy
academy.
We're having a free webinar. Soif you are curious, you wanna
learn how can I protect myselffrom a digital big tech

(01:10:21):
surveillance state, This isliterally gonna be a a free
webinar? It'll probably go onfor an hour or two, like, you
through all of the fundamentalsof how to start protecting
yourself from an AI digitalsuper system that is gonna be
surveilling everything that youdo that you allow them to
surveil. So, meeting with, Glennand Eric Meter, the the they

(01:10:47):
created this company called thePrivacy Academy. They teach
people how to become private.
They teach you how to stop allthese big companies from
collecting data on you,different options. Say you don't
wanna go with the iPhone or theApple. You don't trust Google.
You don't trust Apple. There's abunch of other options.
So, you know, are VPN safe? IsProtonMail safe? What email
should we be using? You know, isGoogle all their free products

(01:11:10):
like Google Maps and Gmail, arethey are they stealing things
from us? Are they using thatagainst us?
We're gonna be covering all thestuff and more, on this webinar.
So the webinar is on Thursday,June 12 at eleven central or,
12PM, eastern. So 11AM central.So this Thursday, if if you're
working or for some reason youcan't catch that webinar, you

(01:11:33):
should still sign up for itbecause you can watch it
afterwards. I'll be there live.
There's gonna be q and a's, andand we're literally gonna be
meeting with two of the worldthe world's, you know, kind of
supreme experts in onlineprivacy. Glenn, you know, who
I've interviewed actually lastweek about this exact topic. He
is a a brilliant guy when itcomes to understanding how can
we protect ourselves from adigital police state. So there's

(01:11:56):
gonna be a link for this in thedescription. And, it's a free
webinar.
Right? So that's it. You don'thave to put your credit card in
and all that. Just it'sliterally just a free webinar.
You can sign up.
They've got more training if youwant access to it, but the idea
is that, okay, how can we teachas many people as possible about
this ahead of time? So the linkis gonna be in the description
below. This Thursday, 11AMcentral is going to be the

(01:12:18):
class. Your computer is spyingon you. Here's how to stop it.
Okay. Alright. Thank you for thewatching the show. Hope you
enjoyed it. Make sure you share,and I'll see you next time.
Take care.
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