Tech CEO Exposes the Diabolical Plan to ENSLAVE Us Through Smartphones

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to man in America, a voice of reason in a
world gone mad. I'm your host,Seth Holehouse. As we witness
what's happening under Trump,there's a lot of questions.
There's a lot to there's a lotto comment on. Obviously, we've
got this the insanity of what'shappening in The Middle East,
which will not be the focus oftoday's show.

(00:35):
But there are a lot of thingsthat people expected to be
happening under Trump thatthey're kinda waiting for, like
the Epstein files or, you know,pardons of people like Tina
Peters or some help with MikeLindell for everything he did or
Giuliani. There's often there'sbeen a lot of great things
happening, like, we're you know,I'm seeing videos of Pete
Hagsteth talking about howthey're removing the

(00:55):
transgenders from the army, andthere's there's there's positive
things that are happening. Idon't wanna take away from that.
However, I do want to highlightwhat I've been kind of signing
the alarm on for a long timenow, but now I'm seeing
happening is that I'm seeing agreat increase in the
surveillance state. If you lookat Palantir, just as one example

(01:17):
of this, we're seeing that thereis a much closer alignment
between big tech companies, AI,and the government.
You could say that there's it isa public private partnership
where you have these big techcompanies, which in my humble
opinion, are government run techcompanies. It just have been
reskinned to be some unicorn,tech miracle. Wow. Look what

(01:40):
Mike Zuckerberg built in hiscollege dorm room. It's like,
no.
That was a DARPA, you know, lifelog that was built to be a mass
data harvesting and socialengineering platform that was
then released, as Facebook withthis genius Mark Zuckerberg
behind it. So I think a lot ofSilicon Valley is really a front
for the military industrialcomplex, which is being used

(02:02):
against us. The surveillancestate in this country is is
growing and expanding. And ifyou look at what's happening
with ICE and with the illegalsand, with Palantir working
together with ICE, and you'vegot Palantir that got a program
called Gotham, which is alreadybeing used by a lot of police
forces in our own nation, thatit's obvious that they are using
technology at this stage againstthe bad people in our country.

(02:26):
But the problem is the singlequestion of how long is it
before that technology is usedagainst us?
And so, you know, I am activelywithin my lifestyle. I'm looking
for ways to be more resilientand more protected from the, you
know, the the kinda growingthreat of global tyranny. Right?

(02:46):
The threat of a new world order.That's why I live in the
country, and I raise chickens,and I and I garden.
I've got food, and I've gotammo, and the things that I need
to protect my family, you know,multiple water sources and
generators. However, I reallybelieve that the greatest threat
that we're facing here inAmerica, is the surveillance
state. It it is this, Palantir.It is this AI driven database of

(03:11):
all this information is beingassembled on us. And what we
have to understand is that themore data that they can feed
into this database, the morethey can control us.
And, again, if you look back atwhat happened during COVID when
Apple and Google had thismagical partnership to release
all these contract contacttracing apps where they

(03:34):
literally were trying to use ourphones and where we're going
with these phones in ourpockets. They're always in there
to use that as a way to traceour activities so they could
then come back to us and say,look. You're gonna need to go
into this little quarantine campbecause, missus Sue Smith, who
you walked past at the grocerystore, we discovered she's a
super spreader. So, Seth, you'regonna be in quarantine for the
next three months. That'spossible.

(03:57):
Right? So a lot of people, theyfeel like, oh, okay. Hey. You
know, that was the oldadministration. We're under
Trump now.
We're gonna be fine. Well, Iwouldn't jump that far, to say
that. I there's still even ifTrump is in in his own right is
purely has the best intentionsfor the American people, he's
surrounded by all these big techCEOs, and he's controlled by

(04:17):
there's a lot of foreign lobbiesthat have major influence over
our country. And so he's got hishands tied. And what I'm seeing
with this is from really the thevery beginning of his
presidency, and and it reallyactually was late last year,
and, you know, as we headedheaded into the election, all
these big tech CEOs are lyingthemselves around Trump.
And you can see that there is athere's some sort of massive

(04:37):
digital Trojan horse that hasbeen marched into, the center of
our government. Right? And thatis AI, Palantir, etcetera. And
if you're looking at this andyou're trying to break down,
okay, what are the ways thatthis mechanism can be used to
control us? What makes us most,susceptible susceptible to being
controlled?

(04:57):
I I would say honestly that thesingle greatest digital weapon
that's being used against us tobuild a potential digital
prison, surveillance state,Palantir run surveillance state
or social credit system is thething that we all carry in our
pockets. Now I've beenconsidering for a long time,
okay, how can I get rid of thisphone? Do I go back to a flip

(05:20):
phone or an old BlackBerry? AndI haven't figured that out
because there hasn't really beenan easy solution. And and so
joining us today is a guy namedHakim Anwar, and he's someone
that used to work in big tech.
He worked, you know, with a lotof, like, very, very key
projects. And he saw, especiallyaround the COVID time, that the
this technology was actuallybeing built as a a cage, and he

(05:41):
couldn't it didn't sit rightwith him. So he left and got
into much more mission based,you know, kind of projects. And
so he has been a kind of on thefront line of sounding the alarm
of how dangerous this technologyis and how we could take back
our tech. He actually has a subsack about that.
Right? Actually, I'll pull thesub sack up for you real quick
here. Yes. And I'll make sure Iput the link in the description.

(06:04):
Just this is his sub sec, takeback our tech.
He says, let's use technologythat doesn't use us. He says,
we're an educational movementand community. Together, we'll
learn about friendly technologyand how to use it effectively
across many areas, desktop, web,mobile, hardware,
communications, and much more.And so, this is gonna be our
discussion today is looking athow are these phones used

(06:25):
against us. Why is it that thesethese phones are at the center
of this this massive digitalmechanism that, really, whether
they're using it right now ornot, the potential is there.
The potential of creating a CCPstyle social credit system in

(06:45):
America, the groundwork is laid.And so we're gonna be focusing
on that and a lot more in thisinterview. Before we jump in, I
wanna encourage you that ifyou're, you know, regular
watching the show, also give ita listen. If you prefer to
listen or say you put a podcaston commonly while you're cooking
or cleaning or whatever it isyou're doing, make sure you go
to your favorite podcast app,search for Man in America, and

(07:06):
subscribe on there. And thatway, you can have every show
that we do is done as an audio,podcast, so you can listen to it
as well.
Alright. Let's go ahead and diveinto this interview. I think
you're gonna find it veryfascinating, a little bit
frightening, but still full ofhope. Enjoy. Hakeem, thank you
so much for joining us today.
It's great to have you on theshow today.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's a pleasure to be here, Seth. Glad to be men in
America just talking about life.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's it's good, actually. It's it's important. I
think, these days, especiallyhaving these conversations is
really, really important becausea lot of what we'll be talking
about, you'll see maybe kind ofmainstream media is kinda
dipping its toe in a little bit,but what we're gonna be covering
is just much more in-depth andmuch more information people
won't really find, very easily.And so, before we dive into our

(07:53):
discussion and and, you know,kinda keeping in mind that our
discussion today is really aboutdigital privacy, the digital
surveillance state, Palantir.You know, the fact that
Palantir, a name that even a lotof, you know, kind of with it
conservatives or influencers ayear ago weren't familiar with,
it's now become somewhat of ahousehold name.

(08:14):
Like, my mom's asking Seth,like, what's this Palantir
stuff? This sounds scary. Right?So there's a lot of stuff there
for us to really kinda diveinto. But let's start with just
with your background.
Like, your kind of background intech, you know, kinda leading
into, what you do what you'redoing with, you know, phone
security and everything. ButI'll let you just kinda
introduce your own self.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Sure. So my name is Hakeem Anwar. It's almost ten
years ago today that I startedmy career in technology, and I
started off building web andmobile applications as a
software engineer for big techcompanies. But by that time I
was already awake to a lot ofwhat was going on. So I always

(08:52):
felt like the black sheep and Iwas always wondering, hey, is
what we're building actuallygood for the world?
And of course it wasn't. Andthen things really took a shift
in my life when the pandemichappened in 2020. I was working
in New York City. So it wasreally funny to hear the company
say, Hey, engineers, go aheadand build this prison around

(09:15):
you. I was one of the onlypeople that didn't worship the
big tech companies, Facebook,Amazon, Netflix, Google, all of
them, everyone wanted to workfrom them.
But I said, Nope, I'm done. Thisis too serious now. So I moved
back home and I started workingwith social movements at the
time, decentralized movementsjust of people wanting to be

(09:36):
more self reliant. And I didthat, with a huge pay cut. And
then one thing I realized inthis movement is that people
were doing all the right thingsin physical.
They're growing their own food,pulling their children out of
the schools, taking care oftheir own health. But when it
comes to their technology, theywere very naive about how they
were going about it. And theydidn't even know about all the

(09:58):
other options. So that's what Istarted to do. I started to
educate.
I started a foundation calledThe Take Back Our Tech and we
started publishing content onfriendly technology you can use
on your phone and laptop. Andthen there was so much demand
for this and we also wanted asolution that our team of
volunteers could feel reallygood about collaborating and

(10:20):
communicating on that we spentabout half a year researching.
And then today, we have acompany called Above, which we
have these privacy phones, isbuilt on top of all that
research, without laptops, allthose types of things. So that's
a little bit about me.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's really helpful. And I have to say, I'm I'm hyper
aware of a lot of these agendas.Right? So we we live in the
country. We're on a smallhomestead.
I got rid of my smart meter onthe house. We've got solar. I've
got a well for water. We'rewe're gardening. We're raising
animals.
And we're doing a lot of thethings that you would think

(10:57):
kinda fall into the bucket ofsomeone who is really kinda
safeguarding from governmentoverreach. Right? So it's like,
okay. Well, yeah. If they wannaput on some sort of, you know,
kind of vaccine ID that you needto have, you know, to get the in
the bread lines in case there'sfood shortages, well, we've got
enough food and enough ways toproduce our own food that we're
not gonna be reliant on that.
Right? So we've done a lot ofsteps. But, you know, one thing,

(11:19):
as I mentioned in in the introhere, the the news of of
Palantir, and not just Palantir,but even I think it was, like,
what, day two when Trump got upon stage of his presidency, and
he's got Sam Altman and LarryEllison and a few others. But
they're talking about buildingthis half a trillion dollar
Stargate project, AI, you know,massive database and servers.

(11:42):
They start looking intoPalantir, and it it almost,
like, all this stuff kindaclicked for me.
And it is, like, as much time asI've spent analyzing, say, China
and their social credit system.And I know exactly, you know,
the the main mechanisms they useand how everyone's using these
particular apps for theirfinance. And I just saw how x
they just announced that they'redoing x's finance, and, like,

(12:04):
you know, Elon wants x to be ina lot of ways, it's like Elon
wants x wants x to be whatWeChat is in China. Right? It's
the central app that you use foryour banking, hotel
reservations, social media,chatting with friends, reserving
an Airbnb type thing.
Like, it's this centralization.And that's the one thing that I
say I have seen under presidentTrump is a central

(12:28):
centralization of big tech, anda a much deeper integration of
big tech into our owngovernment. I think that the
whole Doge operation,everything, part of me suspects
it was just an operation to getbig tech plugged into all these
federal databases andeverything, which is kind of,
like, the next step. But, I knowthat you're quite familiar with

(12:51):
Palantir and a lot of thesethings. So from your
perspective, what are youthinking when you see, oh, wow.
You know, there's the Trumpadministration just handed
Palantir another giant, budget,or Palantir's developing stuff
for ICE for, you know, trackingillegals. And, like, where where
does your mind go with this kindof stuff?

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah. I think Palantir has over a billion
dollars in government contracts,since since May where they got I
mean, one contract alone was, Iwanna say, 795,000,000 that was
for Project Maven. And so justthe scope of that and kind of
how quickly they've grown since2020 makes them the most

(13:32):
important tech company when itcomes to the government, when it
comes to the military. And asyou were pointing out, yes, they
have all these engagements withevery government agency, whether
it's law enforcement or whetherthey're in talks with agencies
like the IRS. Their hands areeverywhere and it makes a lot of

(13:52):
sense because Palantir is a bigdata company.
This is something that big techcompanies were on to five or ten
years ago. They had all thesestratified sources of data and
no way to learn from themtogether. So we had big data,
the movement of big data cometogether where you would start
to glue all these differentsources of data together. And

(14:14):
now with AI progressing so fastin the past few years, now
there's an actual way to learnfrom this huge amount of data.
So I think it has been buildingon each other.
Maybe it's like a kind of anopportunistic thing where the
technology was finally in place.But for Trump to do the
executive order in March, whichis removing the data silos. And

(14:35):
then this past month, there wasa new ai.gov website, which got
leaked, which is making AI toolsavailable for all these
different agencies. Is, thatproject is being run by a former
Tesla engineer. Right?
So it was a step by stepapproach to to shoehorn this
everywhere. And governmentemployees don't even like this.
They think it's a bad idea. So,what's the point of it? Well

Speaker 1 (15:00):
So you've heard me talk about macrobiotic seasonal
eating, how aligning your dietwith the seasons and eating real
local food can transform yourhealth. But what do you do when
your body's out of balance? Thatis where sweet wheat comes in.
Sweet wheat is a 100% certifiedorganic wheatgrass juice powder,
cold juice, and freeze dried toretain all the live enzymes and

(15:22):
nutrients that your body craves,especially when you're dealing
with too much acidity fromprocessed food, sugar, or just
stress. Just one scoop gives youthe alkalizing power of over one
and a half pounds of vegetables,helping to reduce inflammation,
improve digestion, supportdetox, and balance your body's
pH all the way that natureintended.
It's vegan, non GMO, glutenfree, and made right here in the

(15:44):
good old US Of A. So it's safefor all ages, even for kids and
pets. You can get sweet wheatfrom Brightcore for 25% off with
the code man in America at mybrightcore.com/maninamerica, or
call (888) 575-6488 for up to50% off and free shipping, but
only when you call. And if youwanna dive deeper into this

(16:06):
topic and understand howSweetWheat supports macrobiotic
principles, go watch my recentfull interview with the
Brightcore founder, Kim Bright.It'll change the way you think
about your food.
Just click the link below tocheck it out.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
One one really interesting thing is, like, when
I researched into Palantir, Ireally wanted to know how the
software works because you can'treally understand anything
unless you actually use it handson. And so the closest I got to
that was looking at thesedocuments given to the LAPD.
LAPD is one of the policedepartments in the country that
use Palantir's Gotham, and thereare some leaked documents from a

(16:41):
Freedom of Information Actshowing them how they could use
Gotham. Now what the crazy partis is half the officers in the
LAPD already use this on a dayto day. I think that's like, you
know, around 8,000 officers.
Now, why do they use it? Isbecause, you can you can
essentially type out the type ofperson you're looking for. You

(17:03):
could say six foot white male,black hair, skull tattoo, and it
will pull you up all of theresults, for that type of
person. Not only that, but youcan drill into them and see who
they're related to, who theiracquaintances are. You could see
what types of cars they drive.
You can see when those cars werespotted in the city from the

(17:26):
traffic cameras. Right? So thisis really a new paradigm for
surveillance where before youhad to worry about Google or
Apple. Now you have to worryabout all of them.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
What's crazy is this is this is Palantir's website.
This is their, their their kindof landing page for Gotham. It
tells you right here, yoursoftware is the weapons system.
And that's I mean, it's okay.Your software is a weapon
system.
I mean, it's a little bitfrightening. But one question I

(17:59):
have for you is, obviously,you're someone that saw the
writing on the wall in big tech,and you chose to really kinda
take a pretty harsh turn in yourcareer, as I'm I'm sure that you
had a lot of opportunity aheadof you. You know, you know,
kinda talented people in thetech world are making a lot of
money. But you stepped away fromthat because you saw a threat.

(18:22):
And so as you're looking at thisinformation that's coming out,
Palantir's involvement andeverything like that, are you
like, are you genuinelyconcerned that there could be
some sort of kinda Chinese stylesocial credit system digital
prison set up in America?
Or is that just the kind oftinfoil hat people like myself,

(18:48):
you know, kind of becoming alittle too over worried and and
and everything, and kind ofblowing this out of proportion?
Because that that's kind of thethe the argument against it.
It's like, oh, look. This isgonna help us, and you're you're
so you know, you're such a, youknow, kind of a conspiracy
theorist, think that everythingthe government does is is all
about building a prison and allthis new war order stuff. So how

(19:09):
do you feel about it?

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Oh, I think it's it's the most real and and pressing
threat of of probably thisdecade. Definitely, the the
biggest story in 2025 by by farnow that, you know, Palantir is
is getting so many contracts.And I think at first, you can
kinda stand from the sidelines,and you can try and make a case
for this, you know, for theLAPD. Oh, well they're using

(19:35):
that to help quell the riotersand illegal immigrants. Well, it
always starts with your enemies,whoever those people are, and
then it gets used on everyoneelse.
This is just kind of the stagingground. Palantir is still being
tested and developed. And so Ithink the end result is because
there is so much investment inthese big data centers, which

(19:58):
require tremendous amounts ofpower. You know, there's whole
nuclear plants being, I think,Meta's new plant, is getting a
nuclear plant to run their datacenter. Power, the water, and
taking this from the Americanpeople, I'm American, I think
that is going, we're all goingto suffer at the expense of

(20:18):
these systems, and we're allgoing to be enrolled in these
systems.
And one of the things that wasvery interesting was in the past
week or two, some of the biggestbig tech executives, CTO of
Palantir, the CTO of Meta, theCPO of OpenAI, and another
person from OpenAI. They all gotdrafted into the US military.

(20:41):
Drafted is not the right word.They got sworn in to the Army
Reserves as lieutenant colonels.It's a rank that takes twenty
years to get into the military.
And so you could ask thequestion, well, are they there
to speed up our military or arethey there to integrate their
technologies into one package?And like, you know, look at

(21:02):
something like Meta wheremillions of people use it
everywhere on Earth. So that'sobviously a strategic advantage
of Meta's data gets incorporatedinto this Detachment one hundred
one collaboration. But also ourdata is on there too. And so if
you end up disagreeing with theestablishment, you know, you

(21:23):
could easily be made an enemy.
So I think that's why it's soscary. And I think that's why
this privacy this whole conceptof privacy is now going to be
incredibly important becausethey're they don't seem to be
stopping with these types ofloss.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
So what's interesting with this is as I've dug more
into their tools, you know, onething, for instance, is, you
know, smart meters. You know,like, I I you know, the last
couple of houses that I've I'vebeen in, I've, you know,
contacted the the, you know,power companies and look. I
wanna go back to a, a a manualread meter instead of these

(21:57):
smart meters. Because the smartmeters are, a, they they put off
an insane amount of EMFs, butthey can also be turned off
remotely. I don't like that.
Right? I don't like anythinglike that. Like, I'll buy myself
a Tesla car. Like, I just Idon't like the I don't like
somebody else being able to turnmy car off remotely or to be
able to track me remotely. And Iknow there's also a lot of a lot

(22:19):
of the car manufacturers now areputting in all the tracking
software and everything anyway,so it's hard to get, you know,
get out get out from under that.
But, in terms of, like,understanding, okay, if there is
this threat of some sort ofsocial credit system, some sort
of digital surveillance state,what are the ways that I can,
avoid it? And I feel like I'vedone a lot of the things that I

(22:40):
need to to do. But one thingit's that I've come to is that
the single most powerful toolthat they have in building their
surveillance network andbuilding what could be a a
technocratic digital prison isthe tool that most of us are so
addicted to that we don't wannagive it up. And I and I see

(23:02):
these discussions. It's funnybecause I I've I've been going
back and forth for probably acouple of years now, especially
with my wife.
We talk about this all the time.It's like, okay. Should I just
get a dumb phone? Should I justget a flip phone again? Right?
Go back to, you know, life inthe early two thousands with,
like, a, you know, Motorola Razror something like that. And it's
been interesting because there'spart of I I always make these

(23:25):
excuses for myself. It's like,well, I I I like the the Apple
ecosystem, and, you know,there's iMessage, and I've got
all my photos stored on there.And and it's like, as much as I
preach, don't trust thegovernment, in my own life, it's
like, well, I'm still actuallygiving all of my data, giving my
location data, giving everythingover to these same companies

(23:48):
that I'm trying so hard toexpose and sound the alarm
about. And so a question for youis, do you agree with my
assessment that that the cellphone is arguably the most
powerful tool they have inmonitoring and tracking us?
And whether you agree or not,you maybe do, but I also want to
explain how is the like, how arethese phones used, against us?

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah. So, yes, I I totally agree. And, you know,
all of the data that you putinto your phone, whether you're
on social media or whetheryou're traveling or whether
you're talking at your house canbe fed into that social credit
score that we were talking aboutearlier. It's it's absolutely
it's absolutely possible. Imean, I would think that Google

(24:33):
and Apple both have their ownversions of scores but maybe
those are consumer scores,right?
But it doesn't take long to toget to that final destination.
And yes, it is the mostdangerous threat in many
different ways. It's it's notjust about the monitoring, which
is real time and, you know,there are there are secret
geolocation databases. Google'sSensorVault is one, which was,

(24:56):
used against the January 7protesters, you know, to go back
and figure out who was at theCapitol Building at this time,
at the state, let's get alltheir phones, let's go back and
find them, which is similarthings are being done in
Pakistan now as well, which hasa national ID card. And they
figured out all the people thatwere there in 2023 for the Imran

(25:18):
Khan protests, and they foundthem and they turned off their
bank accounts.
Some people were just livingnearby, right? They just got
caught in dragnet or theCanadian truckers. There are so
many ways the phones can be usedto put you at risk going against
the establishment, whatever theestablishment doesn't But more

(25:40):
dangerously than the monitoringis the threat to your mind. A
lot of people ask about, well,why has this country gotten so
weak? Why have the kids gottenso weak?
Right? Why are we not able toconnect with each other? Well,
it's these devices too that areso engaging, always have a drip
feed of content so you're neverbored. And more importantly than

(26:00):
that, the algorithms from thesesocial media companies,
Facebook, TikTok, all thesecompanies are they're just meant
they can influence what you do,how you think, like the things
you do. So all of that stuff isit makes the phone a very, very
dangerous weapon.
And I think now people I guesspeople just need the awareness
that there are other options.We're very, very lucky that

(26:23):
there are phones out there thatcan do everything your normal
phone can, including things likewatching YouTube, going on
Facebook if you need that, butto have strong boundaries there
so you're not completely suckedin. So, yeah, that's what I hope
this next generation is. Mostmore people learning about that,
waking up, and becoming themaster of their phone, not vice
versa.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
And it's interesting. I I remember, I had read
something recently wheresomebody was oh, no. Actually,
funny enough. No. It was, I was,I'm installing a a new kind of
air conditioning system,especially in my studio.
Right? Because I I wanna have aspecific, you know, AC and
heating unit for my studio tokinda control the temperature
and humidity better. And so I'minstalling a mini split, and I

(27:06):
found a company that, you know,they they kind of specialize in
helping people for DIY systemslike this, because the the local
company was just way too much.And I found out the local
companies were all owned byprivate equity, which is like
another kinda kick in the face.So and I was talking to guy.
I like, hey, guys. I wanna makesure that these units I'm buying
aren't smart. Like, I I I knowit might sound weird. And,

(27:28):
actually, the guy on their phonewith the the sales rep or the
helper, he was like, actually,he's like, hey. He's like, I'm
right there with you, man.
Was like, oh, really? He's like,oh, yeah. He was like, I was at
a dinner party recently. And Iwas, you know, there he's
sitting around with maybe, like,eight or 10 friends. And, you
know, they're talking aboutsomething with the phones, and
he goes, well, you know yourphones are always listening to
you.
And and his friends were like,oh, come on. You're one of those

(27:49):
guys. Like, our phones are alllistening to us. He goes, okay.
Give me, like okay.
Take five minutes. Let's do anexperiment. I said, everyone
take your phone and set it onthe table. He said, okay. He
says, now I want us to spend thenext five minutes talking about
dog food.
Or maybe maybe it was, JohnDeere tractors. I think
whatever. I think it was JohnDeere tractors. And and because
there was something like thatnone of them had searched for.

(28:09):
He goes, want us all to talkabout John Deere tractors.
Okay? And they're like, okay.And so they all talk about John
Deere tractors saying, you know,I've been thinking about buying
a John Deere tractor. Right?After a few minutes of that, he
said, okay.
Give it a few more minutes. Hegoes, now everyone open open up
your phone. Go to your Facebook.I started scrolling. Every
single one of them saw ads forJohn Deere tractors.

(28:30):
And they were they were like,this is insane. Now I I've known
this for quite some time. I'mconvinced that they have a way
of actually monitoring ourthoughts, but that's a whole
different discussion. Yeah. Butthat's one thing also.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Do this?

Speaker 1 (28:44):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (28:45):
It's it's like the the question you might have is
is, like, how how are they doingthis? And, I mean, it's it's
pretty it's pretty simple.Although they won't admit it,
but you are giving these appsmicrophone permission. Right?
The operating system, just Appleor Google, they've got the
microphone permission.
But if you're using FacebookMessenger, you know, you're
leaving voice messages, they'vegot that permission. And once

(29:05):
they have that, they can theycan do whatever they want with
it. And so they are constantlylistening. I mean, multiple
companies are listening.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
And that's the thing is that that's another way is
that makes me think, okay, whatwhat am I really giving them?
Because one, you know, my wifeand I occasionally, like, you
know, we'll watch shows in theevening as our way of kind of
winding And and it's not easy tofind shows, good shows, because
most shows, especially, look,like, top rated shows, they're
full of sex, like, insaneviolence. And as much as I wanna

(29:36):
watch Game of Thrones, it's likeI can't bring myself to watch
this show that just kind ofglorifies, you know, rape and
incest and and, like, extremeviolence. And but, you know, we
we occasionally will find showsare good, and we just, you know,
a couple weeks ago, finishedwatching a show called Person of
Interest. I'm not sure if you'veseen it with I haven't.
Jim Caviezel. And it came outmaybe ten years ago, but the

(29:57):
entire show is it's like a, youknow, five seasons, six seasons,
is all about these big AIsystems that gain access to NSA
surveillance feeds, like, andthen how those can be used
against people. And it's it'sone of the best, I think,
examples of showing how powerfulAI could be, because if you

(30:19):
imagine that right now because,like, you know, I occasionally
will use AI for, say, aresearcher to help with, like,
you know, my wife might use itfor, you know, writing code for
something. She gets stuck, andshe's like, hey. Can you help me
with this?
And there's certain functionsthat it can be very helpful, but
I'm I'm still, like, verycautious with it. But I you
know, if you use AI, you knowhow quickly it can process

(30:39):
information. Like, I can drop inan hour long transcript, and
instantly, it can give me asummary of that transcript.
Like, it's just it's so easy. Soyou think about if every
conversation we have, everysearch that we have, every and
not just, like, the surfacestuff, but even our actions.
Like, this thing, it's trackingour eye movement. It's tracking,
like, our geolocation. It'slike, imagine it's easy to see

(31:03):
how an AI system could take allof that information and build,
like, a very detailed profile ofme. And the thing is is that I'm
giving it all the data it needsto assemble, like, this profile
of me that, like, probably knowsme better than I I know myself
as crazy as it is.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
It can yeah. I mean, it can it it knows that digital
representation really well. Onething I always will will hold is
that humans are unpredictable.And when the fire meets the
metal, who knows what's going tohappen? But you're so right, we
are pumping our data left andright into these phones and like

(31:41):
you mentioned, right, there'sthese sensors, there's
measurements that we don't evenknow about.
Like the Apple Watch. It has aheart rate sensor. This is a
story that happened earlier thisyear. Apple came out with their
new health study which uses theAirPods and it uses the Apple
Watch and it uses questionnaireson your phone. Now the thing is
the Apple Watch has an ECG,electrocardiogram, and so if you

(32:05):
decide to enroll in their study,I looked through the piracy
policy, like this didn't get anypress at all, but they send that
data directly to the FDA andHealth and Human Services.
I was like, why are they sendingthis private health study and
they're doing it with someuniversity, think it's, I forget
the name of it but they're alsosending the data to the
government, right? And it's notgonna stop. You look at some of

(32:26):
their patents with AirPods.They've got
electroencephalograms, right?That's the measures of magnetic
fields from your brain waves.
And you can go so, so deep but Iwould agree with you. I think
that they are trying to work onreading our thoughts and our
minds and our emotions andfeelings, which is really,
really scary, right? That's liketaking it past 1984. George

(32:47):
Orwell couldn't come up withscarier stuff than what is
happening now. But the savinggrace is it's really just about
consent, just the way you turndown all the smart devices in
your home, which by the way Ilove.
I don't have any EMF at myhouse. It's all hardwired. My
car is over 20 years old. Soyou've got to take everything in
your power while still takingsome of the good things because,

(33:10):
you know, for all this evilstuff that's inside of it, it
has made our lives easier in alot of ways, like the navigation
aspect, the communicationaspect. There are certain good
things about it.
I just don't want it to comewith all the hidden ingredients
that they normally ship it with.And so that's what we try and do
on our phones. There are ways tocommunicate that are completely

(33:30):
private, that are sovereign,meaning that you could run the
infrastructure yourself at home.They're kind of decentralized
like email. And there's alsoways to navigate the world like
drive around which are opensource, which you don't have to
use a third party server to.
And you can use GPS, which is apassive protocol. Normally you

(33:53):
will send Google and Apple yourlocal WiFi networks, but you can
use GPS. So it's about awarenesstoo that there is ways thing to
do these things like old school,while still having these new
school features that we alllike.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
And also, one thing in terms of just looking at, you
know, how these tools could beused against us. Obviously,
China's a great example inlooking at, you know, how
they're able to achieve such acomplex social credit system
over there. It's all built ontechnology. Like, that's the
thing is that these tech theseare technologies that Mao or
Stalin could have only dreamedof having, of having, like, this

(34:30):
level of control over their owncitizens. And but if we look at
the examples against, say say,China, you can see how these
things are used against us.
But think one of the greatestexamples is what happened during
the pandemic. Right? So I'llpull up this here, this little
quick thing here.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Apple and Google privacy preserving contact
tracing. So I I remember whenthis happened, actually. It says
across the world, governmentsand health authorities are
working together to findsolutions to the COVID nineteen
pandemic to protect people andget society back up and running.
Software developers arecontributing by crafting
technical tools to help combatthe virus and save lives. In the

(35:08):
spirit of collaboration, wow.
Google and Apple arecollaborating for the good of
humankind? Wow. So for thespirit of collaboration, Google
and Apple are announcing a jointeffort to enable the use of
Bluetooth technology to helpgovernments and health agencies
reduce the spread of the viruswith user privacy and security

(35:29):
central to design. And so,basically, it says as a
partnership of, they've releasedthe draft documentation for an
exposure notification system inthe service of privacy
preserving contact tracing. Sothis to me when I saw this come
out, and I saw that you could gointo your iPhone and turn it
off, I'm I'm who knows if itactually turns it off?

(35:49):
Like, I've got family over inAustralia.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Wait. So it was it was turned on by default?

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. Because remember what's
happened. As soon as anyone didthe update with the your iOS,
you had to then go in andactually and turn off the the
contact tracing in there.
Wow. Hey. What That yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
I covered the story in-depth. And one thing I
assumed, because I don't have aniPhone, is that you have to turn
it on. But now okay. So it'sactually opt out. Okay.
Sorry. Continue.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Oh, yeah. Well, so so I I have family in Australia.
And as most of us know,Australia was very draconian in
their response to COVIDnineteen. And, you know, they
did their lockdowns, but theirlockdowns were you can't travel
within, say, five kilometers ofyour location, or you can't
cross over to certain regions.Right?
So so they have their, iconic wehave our states. You know, they

(36:40):
have, their I think it'sterritories. Right? New South
Wales, etcetera. And indifferent territories had
different strictness.
So you couldn't cross over intocertain territories, but it was
all done through the phones.Like, that was their tool. And
if you look at what I justpulled up here about the the
contract tracing, it's like, oh,well, this is such a brilliant

(37:00):
way to control society. Right?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
It is. And and, you know, this contact tracing is a
perfect example of this becauseit's like, all right, Google and
Apple are going to collab. Theseare these are competitors, but
out of the goodness of theirhearts, they're gonna work on
this together. By the way, it'snot out of the goodness of their
hearts. This was, it was just anembezzlement scam from our tax
dollars because our stategovernment spent, like, I think

(37:24):
it was California that spent$40,000,000.
There's some states in The USthat spent a $100,000,000
developing their own contacttracing apps. And guess what?
No. Like, almost no one usedthem in The US. Australia was
probably the most successful outof the world.
I think they had like 20 to 30%people downloaded, but no one
used these apps. It's a massivewaste of money. And like you

(37:47):
said, they are used to trackpeople's locations. So usually
it would go to, you know, itwould be operating in a state.
Each state was responsible forits own contact tracing system.
It would go to the state'sDepartment of Health and also to
Apple and Google. So Apple andGoogle at the end of the day had
enough data. They said thatthere wouldn't be any personally

(38:09):
identifiable information to thiscontact tracing but of course
they have a whole other sea ofdata. It was so easy for them to
tell who you are. They controlall the updates on your phone.
Now this is somethinginteresting you might have known
about the contact tracing. So Ididn't know about the thing with
Apple but I did know in the caseof Google, you were supposed to
go into your settings and turnit on except for one state,

(38:32):
Massachusetts, where peoplerealized one day, this was in
like 2022, that a new app wasinstalled on their phone,
Massachusetts contract tracingapp called Mass Notify, and it
was on already. The Bluetoothhad been turned on, and they
couldn't uninstall it. Like,they would uninstall it. It
would come back on.

(38:53):
And so, know, Google has a lotof history in Massachusetts.
Somehow, they agreed, hey. Justgo ahead and just force it on
everyone. Go ahead and justforce it on everyone. And so
they did.
And it was really crazy. There'sa there's a lawsuit still still
pending for this technology. Butit just goes to show you, if you
use an Apple or Google phone,you are at their whim. They're

(39:15):
just going to roll out asoftware update to billions of
people all at once and you'rejust going to go along with it.
That's how digital paymentsbecame popular.
That's how they tried to pushcontact tracing. God knows what
is next. So this is why peopleneed to use a phone that doesn't
have a centralized softwareservice, no forced updates, is

(39:35):
open source. You so you canactually tell what your phone is
doing. Really scary stuff.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Wait. And it's also it's it's the forced updates
that are a big part of that.Like so, our my recording setup
here, we we are using I think Ihave four different computers
all running that kind of merge.So I've my main my main, system
is is like a a pretty built outkind of like a gaming PC. Right?
But we build out specificallyfor the requirements because we

(40:00):
run a program. It's a very PCspecific, program. And so but
I've got multiple, Mac studiosthat feed information right
through NDI or different, youknow, SDI, etcetera, that go
into the main, you know, PC. Butone thing with the PC, and this
is a new thing to me, is that itnow gets to a point where the
updates are automatic. Right?
Because it used to be that I Iyou could say say, like, an an

(40:23):
Apple iOS or say an Apple OSfor, you know, a MacBook that
you could say, you know, I'm I'mnot gonna upgrade this one yet
because I know that the AdobeSuite, they're having some
issues with Adobe Suite running,you know, whatever, you know,
Sierra or whatever program itwas they're running. But with
the PC now, it's automatic. Andso, like, what it gets to a
point where, like, you have toupdate. Like, if you wanna

(40:45):
restart your computer, it'll sayrestart with update. There's no
other option.
So they're forcing these updatesinto your your peers. Not to
mention, I just did an interviewwith a guy named Glenn Glenn
Meter, who he runs the privacyacademy. And the AI on Apple and
p computers, they're constantlytaking screenshots of everything

(41:08):
that you do. So now our laptopsit wouldn't surprise if the
phones are doing the same, like,behind the scenes, but they're
collecting everything that we'redoing. All that data is getting
fed in, I'm sure, to some sortof centralized system.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah. It's, I when you say PC, you're referring to
Windows, and then that's right.Like, Microsoft over the past
two iterations, now they justdon't give you the choice. Do
you wanna update now or later?And then if you keep saying
later, sometimes they'll justclose down your work while
you're in the middle of it andjust update for two hours or

(41:41):
however long it takes.
So you really don't have anycontrol of your computer that
way either. They don't respectyou. They really treat you like
a child, You couldn't updateyour computer on your own
accord. So it's freaky to methat, know, and I understand why
it happens, but why peoplesubject themselves to the abuse
of these big tech companies,which they're not acting in your

(42:02):
benefit. They're acting fortheirs and for their partners,
which unfortunately is our dataaggregators.
They're governments that theycollaborate with. They're
foreign governments. I mean,whoever they need to they have
allegiances to other countries,too. You know, like a good
example of this is the ChinaApple App Store will look
different in China. It will lookdifferent in Israel.

(42:23):
I think there's like a 140different versions based on
which country you're in. And sowe we as a it's it's really,
really important for people tounderstand that it's not just an
individual thing. It's also anetwork thing. The more people
that are using Google and Appleand Microsoft products, the more

(42:44):
powerful that surveillancenetwork will become, but also
the more useful it'll be topeople on those systems, making
it harder for you to leave. Themore people that are using
decentralized alternative opensource solutions, you'll have
the same effects.
It'll be easier to use, there'llbe more people on them. That's
why this is really one of themost important things we can do
in this day and age. And I mean,some of the best things about

(43:04):
switching over or transitioningis you won't get those forced
updates, you'll have control ofyour updates for one. You're
going to have a lot more peaceon your phone because there's
not any ads. You can actuallysay what's on your mind without
having to worry about someonelistening to you and you have
control over the apps on yourphone.
Even if you wanted to installsomething like Instagram or

(43:27):
WhatsApp, you can actually pickwhat permissions. You can even
cut it off from the Internet.You could give it a subset of
your contacts. And and that'swhat's really cool about,
deGoogle phones and, and thisprivacy technology.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
It's and that's what it is because I I wanna kinda
shift into that kind ofspecifically talking about the
technology. Because the onething that was always such a
hang up for me like, I've knownfor a long time. It's like, just
need to get rid of this thing.Right? And someone I follow
quite often, amazing Polly,she's a great researcher, and
and she's constantly she shewent to a dumb phone a long time
ago.
And she's constantly saying, andI I agree with her. It's like,

(44:04):
if it like, literally, if ifhypothetically, if every
American got rid of their Googleand Apple smartphones or sorry.
Yeah. Yeah. Google and Apple,whatever, you know, kind of
mainstream smartphones, andlet's just say move to a dumb
phone, right, or an old an oldBlackBerry or something, the
surveillance system wouldprobably it would be crippled
overnight if that happened.

(44:25):
Because, again, if you look atthe contact tracing, you look at
China, you look at Australia,you can see how that system
requires these phones. Right?Even all the, like, the the kind
of vaccine passport ideas,everything, it was all based
upon the phones. So if enoughpeople got rid of their phones,
they wouldn't be able toactually implement this

(44:46):
surveillance system. Becauseeven looking at the, contact
tracing, right, It's like, youthink about it.
Let's just say that they theythey wanted to target me as a
political prisoner. And thenthey wanted to say, look, this
guy, he's really kinda gettingtoo far out there. He's he's
threatening the system. He's,you know, kinda questioning the
government. It'd be so easy forthem to say, oh, well, sorry,

(45:07):
Seth.
We saw that, you know, when youwere at the local, you know,
grocery store that you walkedpast this person that now we
know is a known super spreader.And so we're gonna have to come
and put you into a quarantine.And we saw that. Like, we saw
that in Australia. We saw it inAmerica even, definitely in
China, that they were literallybuilding camps.
Like, they were buildingquarantine And that they could

(45:32):
under the guise of just becauseyou walked past somebody. It's
like, how do I know if that'sactually true? It'd be so easy
for them to use that as a as anexcuse to put me into some sort
of quarantine camp for threemonths until I was kind of
acceptable for society again.Hey, folks. I've got a quick but
really important update.
So right now, DC politicians aretrying to kill the very tax

(45:54):
credits that are helping bringmanufacturing back from China
and putting American workers onthe job. These credits are
fueling US energy independence,rebuilding our supply chains,
and hitting the ChineseCommunist Party where it hurts.
And look. This isn't theory.It's actually happening.
We're talking real factories,real jobs right here on American
soil. But if they repeal thesecredits, we're gonna lose

(46:17):
millions of jobs. We got over atrillion dollars from our
economy, and we hand China amassive win. So here's the deal.
President Trump, don't letcongress pull the plug on
America's comeback.
Stam firm. Protect the energytax credits. Keep putting
America first.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Well, most definitely. The the only thing I
would add to that is, yes. So sodumb phones will get rid of a
lot of the surveillance, butthen all of your communication
needs will will shift over tophone calls and SMS, which is
not a secure system legally ortechnically it's not a secure
system. It's required by lawthat all the major telecoms hand

(46:59):
over your phone calls and textmessages when they get a legal
warrant or request. And thenthere's also secret databases
like Hemisphere which is, youknow, it's publicly known.
You can look it up on Wikipedia,which collects 40,000,000,000
call detail records every yearand has been since 02/2008.
That's a DEA program butessentially was made to figure

(47:20):
out to look through drugdealers. Remember like the whole
the cliche drug dealer do a drugdeal, break his phone and then
they're on to a new phone? No,it doesn't work. They had
figured that out a really longtime ago.
So phone calls and SMS aren'tprotected by US laws, but
internet communications for noware. You are able to encrypt

(47:44):
your Internet communication. Sothat's one of what's been my
major recommendation is peopleactually stop using their phone
numbers and find different waysto communicate. Now, some people
like Signal and WhatsApp and allthat kind of stuff, which are
Internet messengers. But thenyou have to look into what those
companies are tied into.
Signal is funded through the USDepartment of Media, so it's

(48:06):
another government agency. It'salso got some shadowy founders
that have previously worked forthe US government and military.
And WhatsApp, you know, I don'tneed to talk about WhatsApp,
it's Facebook. So it's therethere are open source
decentralized messagingsolutions we can use like XMPP,
which I'll just show show offwhat that looks like right here.

(48:28):
So this XMPP app is a is aserver that anyone can run at
home.
It's messaging protocol. So thesame things you could do on
WhatsApp message people, callpeople, and then you have
something that looks like anemail. So if I click on this
thing here, you can actually seethat you have this address that

(48:49):
looks like an email. And what'sreally cool about it is it does
not only lets you message peopleon XMPP and XMPP is free. It's
easy to sign up for an account,but it lets you dial out to
phone numbers with an additionalservice.
So it's kind of the best of bothworlds. You can have your
privacy communications and thenyou can also have your phone

(49:10):
calls and text messages usingthe solution that we've
developed as part of our suite.So XMPP is something I think
everyone should check out. Thereare other Privacy messengers out
there. You might havepreferences, but I recommend
that people shift theircommunications over to this or
at least their inner circles orwho they're close to.
So yeah, you get to pick a U. S.Phone number for this and you're

(49:34):
getting more privacy becausenormally when they collect these
phone calls, they're alsocollecting the nearest radio
tower. There are things withbeing able to geolocate you
based off of the radio tower.And so when you use an Internet
phone number, it's going on tothe cell network from the
Internet.
You're creating a layer ofseparation between you and your
cell communications, which Ithink every little bit helps.

(49:56):
It's also very convenient to dothis because then now you can
have two numbers on your phone.Now I don't expect people to to
ditch phone numbers overnight,but here's a solution that works
and can kind of be that bridgein between worlds. You can have
your cake and you can eat ittoo.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah. And this is so this is one one of the big
things that I wanna kinda reallydig into your your brain about
is that because when I waslooking at switching, I thought
the only solution was a dumbphone. Right? And so I was
thinking, well because, like, II use my phone for a lot of my
work, whether it's responding tomessages. Or if I'm out say, I'm
out with the goats, I'm gonnatake a video of myself.
Right? Or, and so, you know, forme to kinda go back to carrying,

(50:35):
okay. Here's my pocket camera.Here's my pocket GPS. I'm gonna,
you know, use all thesedifferent devices.
Exactly. So it was hard for meto wrap my head around making
that shift, and it alwaysstopped me. Now I I'd always
heard about degoogled phones,but that also sounded like, do I
do I wanna kinda dive down thatrabbit hole? Right? You know, I

(50:55):
I I do wanna try to get, know,figure out, like, a Linux
solution to kinda set up acomputer for my secure work for
Linux and stuff like that.
But in terms of the phones, I II didn't really find a solution
that made sense to me. So itjust I I again, here I am with
with my brand new iPhone. Sowalk me through go ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah. I was like, can I show you some of the cool
things you can you can do onthis phone?

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah. Well, so before we do that, let let me first let
me pull up your website, becauseI'm gonna show. So basically, if
I understand correctly, whatyou've done and let me find
your, your website here, is, sowhat you've done, if I
understand correctly, is you'vetaken, the kind of de Googled
phone approach. Right? And andyou've taken it, and you've

(51:40):
thought through all the thingsthat we need to think about, for
us.
Right? Because you've because Iknow that when you get into,
say, Linux or de Googling,there's tons of different
operating systems. There are somany choices. I found it a
little bit overwhelming, and Ididn't know which route to go.
So I end up doing nothing.
Right? So if if I'm if I'mcorrect, what you do so with
with above phone, you've taken,these Android phones. Right? You

(52:06):
know, Google Pixel, etcetera.But you've then stripped them of
all of the software could bespying on us, and you've then
pre installed a an operatingsystem that is completely
private.
Right? Is so is that a correctunderstanding of of kind of,
like, what you've done?

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah. That's a that's a that's a good summary of it.
And so, yes, we we take existingphones, and we flash a special
operating system on it calledGrapheneOS which we have our own
custom image on just to make ita little bit more easier and
user friendly and have all theright settings set up for you.
What you end up getting is aphone that's ready to go out of

(52:47):
the box. You can see we havephones, we also have a tablet
that runs the same operatingsystem.
Why this phone is so special isbecause it makes it incredibly
easy to switch. For one, it'llwork with any cell service in
the world. So you could be inThe US, you could be overseas,
and you could either plug in aSIM card or you can scan an eSIM

(53:09):
and it'll be connected and readyto go. And then there's also
these alternative app storeswhich I'll share with you what
those look like. So if you'veused an Android phone, this will
look a little bit familiar toyou.
Swipe down from the bottom andyou can see all your apps. Swipe
down from the top, you can seeyour notifications and your
little quick tiles, then theseare the app stores that you can

(53:32):
use. Now, this is an app storecalled Aurora Store, which will
let you download apps from theGoogle Play Store privately. Why
that's so awesome is because nowyou have more visibility into
what your apps are doing and youdon't need that singular
identity. You don't need thatGoogle account.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Oh, the Apple ID that's tracking everything
you're doing.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Exactly, my man. And so what's really cool is this
will give you informed consentof what is going on in your app.
So let's look at an app thatprobably everyone uses, a PDF
reader, right? Just wanted toread documents. What's the harm
in a PDF reader?
Then you can look down here andthen you can see the section
privacy in the middle there. Youactually see the third party

(54:16):
companies that are involved inthat app. Now the scary part is
if you give a permission to thatPDF reader, Hey, go ahead and
read all the files on my phone.All of these third party
trackers, I mean, these aresoftware libraries people
include in their apps fordifferent reasons, but also to
make money. So you seeFacebook's in here, a lot of
Facebook, a lot of Google, acompany called Branch.

(54:39):
And now this is very, verycommon in this ecosystem, right?
So you're getting to read theingredients before you install
it on your phone. Now what youmight end up doing is instead of
getting an app from the Aurorastore, which is the Play Store,
you could get it from F Droid.Now this is an open source app
catalog which there's no code init that is hidden. Normal apps,

(55:03):
the old code is hidden.
You can't see what it does. On FDroid, all of it is transparent.
So if I wanted to find a PDFreader on here, PDF, there is
new PDF and then there'sLibreira Reader which is really
good and it's actually alreadyon the phone. So, it's not too
different from how you use anormal phone. There's just
different apps for differentthings, and we already have all

(55:28):
of the apps you would needalready with the above phone.
So there's apps for Office,you've got a calendar, you've
got the PDF reader, there's appsfor media, you have an app to
listen to podcasts from, youhave an app to watch YouTube in.
So what's really cool about thistoo here, I'm gonna do a video
that isn't so terrible becauseit's the front page of YouTube.

(55:50):
Okay. Minecraft. We'll we'll dothat.
So what's really cool about thisis you can actually download the
videos. So notice here that Ican download the video, or or I
could download the audio. Sothis makes it really easy. If I
wanted to watch in fact, Ishould have gone to Man in
America. What am I doing?
Man in America. If I wanted todownload your videos here we

(56:13):
are. I could subscribe to itwithout a Google account, and
then I could go in and I coulddownload your videos. This way,
I could also play them in thebackground, which is a feature
that people can't do on normalphones. You have to pay, like,
$9 a month for that with YouTubeRed or whatever it is.
So you're getting your powerback from these open source

(56:33):
apps. And what what our companydoes is we find the best ones.
We support those apps. Wesupport those operating systems,
and we give you a unifiedexperience, and we help you
learn it and educate you.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Okay. So, basically, this this what what you're
showing right now, is it's Yes.You have the you have all these
online ecosystems. Right? So sayGoogle, Apple, Facebook.
And in almost every interactionwith these systems, it is, it's

(57:05):
kind of forcing you to do itthrough their login. So that
that way, you know and and,like, admittedly, like, I use
Google single sign on for ahandful of things. Right? It's
it's convenient. And I'm movingaway from it as I learned, like,
oh, that's actually really bad.
But it's so easy. You go to awebsite. It's like, oh, you can
sign in with your Googleaccount. Like, oh, okay. That's
easy.
You do it. But that allows themto track every single thing that

(57:26):
you're doing. So, basically, ifI understand correctly that
this, you know, these phones andand the OS that they're running,
they allow you to access theseapps privately. Right? Because
if you download a lot of theseapps, you can't even open them
without first logging in.
Yep. They they they forced you.But so it sounds like what this
is doing is it's giving youalmost a backdoor to all of

(57:49):
these different places. Right?

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yes. And and let's define privacy too. For for me,
that means not connecting tothese big tech companies. So
when you get this phone, whenyou start using it, by default,
there are zero connections tobig tech. No Google, no Apple,
no Facebook.
And we verify this on a regularbasis. We verify the apps on
this phone. And so now there areapps that, like for instance,

(58:15):
for this app that's a new pipe,this is connecting to YouTube
for the video servers, but it isnot connecting to YouTube's
algorithms to like you wouldnormally find on the YouTube
apps or their analytics. Soyou'll notice there this concept
of an algorithm here. It'll showyou related videos, but it's not
tuning to your behavior, whichis really, really important.

(58:38):
So you have all of these appsthat can either be used offline
or just don't make anyconnections to these big tech
companies, which is important.Now, one of the other cool
things about the phone too isyou have control over your
permissions. So this is theglobal way you can turn off your
mic and camera. Right? This iskind of like the microphone or

(58:59):
camera switch.
Camera access. Turn it off justlike that and then you won't,
you know, it's completely shutoff for the entire phone. You
could also do the following. Youcould go into a specific app,
and then you already have somuch more control over the
permissions. Again, thesefeatures don't exist on Apple.
They don't exist on Google.There's no way to get them. The

(59:21):
only thing the only people whocared enough to give you this
feature were these were thesenonprofit projects like Graphene
OS. And so you can control thesepermissions like music and
audio. You can control if it hasaccess to the phone itself like
the call logs and photos andvideos.
And what's really cool is youcan drill down. So if I wanted

(59:42):
to give this app, Telegram,access to my contacts, I don't
just give it my entire contactbook like you would on a normal
phone. I can pick which contactsI want to give it to. So let's
see, do Henry and Bob, and thoseare the only contacts I use on
this app, right? So you'realready taking back your power
in so many ways while using theapps that you want to use.

(01:00:03):
So if you wanted to useWhatsApp, you could, but you
have a lot more well, you have alot more tools in your tool belt
to protect your privacy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Oh, so basically, you can, you can use these same
apps. So say, like,hypothetically, you know,
Twitter, like, you know, or x.Right? If that's something
that's like, okay. Look.
It's really helpful to have thaton my phone, because it's how I
stay on top of things, and I'mengaging with people and
everything. You can stillinstall that, but you can do it,

(01:00:31):
like, in a way that like, you'renot allowing it to be a Trojan
horse, basically. Where it'slike, oh, by by just installing
it, you're giving it access toeverything. Like, it's almost
like you can take that that appand kinda put it into this
little box. And you're saying,I'm gonna control everything
you're doing on this phone, andI'm gonna I'm gonna limit what
you have access to.
So you can still use these theseapps without sacrificing giving

(01:00:55):
up all your personal data.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah. There's a a many
different layers on this phonekind of built into your
defenses. So, like, taking inmind something like X, which is
it's a scary big tech app, andElon Musk is running it. So he's
obviously trying to get hisfingers into as many things as
possible.
So what you do first is you canuse your VPN. Now this VPN is

(01:01:18):
very, very important. This VPNallows you to spoof where you
were actually connecting from.Let's say you're in Minnesota or
something and normally with yourIP address, I can tell what town
you're in. I can just tell apretty close degree of where you
are.
What this does is it lets youspoof that you're coming from a

(01:01:39):
different place. You might becoming from the Central US. You
might be coming from the EastCoast. You might be coming from
the West Coast. We have a VPNthat we provide as a suite of
privacy services.
This is a very important factorin your Internet privacy and
security for that matter. Thereis that layer that you can use.
The second layer is having thepermissions like you mentioned.

(01:02:01):
Instead of giving apps theentirety of your phone, give
access to one folder. Noticehere I have two folders figured
out for Telegram.
I only wanted to give it accessto pictures. I can even like
drill down from that and createa folder specifically for
Telegram. It doesn't have accessto the entire phone which is

(01:02:21):
really important. Now if Iwanted to go even farther
because normally apps can detectwhat other apps are installed in
the same profile, if I didn'twant X to have that ability what
I can do is actually I cancreate a phone within my phone.
And so I'll show you how thisworks.
I've got another they call thisa sandbox and this is another

(01:02:43):
phone within your phone. It'sencrypted with a different key.
It's got a different passcodeand it also lets you put in
different apps. So you'll noticethere's things like Uber,
American Airlines, whatever youwould normally travel with. I
don't trust apps like that.
So I'll put them in a specificsandbox and only use them when I
need them. So that way, youknow, Uber is not tracking my

(01:03:04):
location in the background. Soyou could put things like
Twitter, Airbnb, Facebook, allof the apps that are very big
tech and just keep them isolatedfrom the rest of your phone so
you have that added protection.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
So it's almost like how you how you'd, like,
partition a hard drive. Right?You take a part you take a hard
drive, a one terabyte harddrive, and you you create two
partitions. And now you've gottwo separate kinda sandboxes.
Right?
So let's just say that I wantedto keep some you know, I wanted
to run some social media onthere. I could create a whole
other login to that phone, whichis like Seth's social. And I

(01:03:40):
only will use those programs orthose social media plat you
know, apps when I'm logged intothat profile. And that way, say
my main, you profile, whichmaybe I use for communication, I
use for GPS, I use for thethings that are kinda more every
everyday use, I can keep thatseparate from that profile. So
one I do I I wanna ask you aboutGPS, because that's one that's

(01:04:02):
one of the other things that Iuse my phone all the time for
GPS.
And, really, because, you know,I have GPS in my truck, but it's
never gonna be as as kind ofupdated as accurately as, say,
Google. Like, my truck's notshowing me, hey. There's traffic
here. I'm gonna reroute you thisway. So I typically will go to
my phone, and I'm just using my,like, you know, Google app,

(01:04:22):
Google Maps on there, which Iknow is collecting all kinds of
data.
So you can even is there there'sGPS you can use that's not
tracking you? I mean, is thatone thing that you can do here?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Yes. And you've got two options. One is one is less
private, but more convenientbecause it's got the traffic.
It's got the maps that updateall the time. That one is called
Magic Earth.
So that one's right there. Andthe other one is this this app
called OpenStreetMaps. NowOpenStreetMaps is really, really

(01:04:55):
cool. You'll notice I'm overTennessee and Tennessee is
highlighted in green. That'sbecause I've downloaded the
entire map of Tennessee to myphone locally.
And so I could do that with theentire US and once I've done
that, I can pick any point onthe map and I can navigate to it
completely offline. So my phonecan be on airplane mode, could

(01:05:15):
literally not be connecting toanything. And since GPS is a
passive protocol, it's yourphone listening to other
signals, not your phone sendingout signals. You can navigate
without anyone knowing about it,which makes it really, really
cool. And then there are waysyou can find the address of
where you're going to and plugit in on this map, then you'll

(01:05:36):
get turn by turn directions.
I might set it up here to see ifwe can get get something here
and then simulate this. Here wego. So the the turn by turn
directions work directions workas you would normally experience
it in like your Google Maps app.Now the only thing is with this

(01:05:57):
one, because it's completelyoffline, it doesn't connect to
traffic. It you don't get that.
So it'll give you the straightshot. It'll give you the the
shortest distance. And you endup I mean, you know, if you're
staying within your state, youend up learning it to a degree
where you have a knowledge ofthe route and you you kind of
know where to go next time. Butthis this works really well for

(01:06:19):
people. And then if you wantsomething that's more plug and
play, you can use Magic Earth.
What's Magic Earth?

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Yeah. Even with with Magic Earth though, you're using
it anonymously. That's that'swell, it's one of the keys.
Right? Is you're not logged intoyour Google account, and it's
not all feeding into somecentral database.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
There's nothing you have to sign up for. There's
nothing you have to sign up for.There's no personal information
you put in. So I'd say it'sanonymous in that sense. But,
because it's using a third partyserver, you can look into the
Magic Root's private privacypolicy.
I think it's like they keep yoursaved searches and what your
points of interest were for upto a year. So for some people,

(01:07:02):
that's not good enough for them.For other people, it is. We just
wanted to give you the optionsand let you decide. If you wanna
be completely private,OpenStreetMaps is great, but
Magic Earth is more convenient.
And for sure, they're bothbetter than Google Maps.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
That makes sense. And so, walk us through, basically,
how to how to get these. Right?Now I wanna say one thing is
that I never like when, youknow, we we kind of you know, I
have a guest on. We talk aboutthings.
It's like, oh, okay. Hey. Thisis the only solution to this, is
you must buy this one product.Otherwise, you're screwed. So I

(01:07:37):
love the idea that, like, no onehas to get an above phone.
Right? People can go on theirown, and they can get a d you
know, on eBay, where you can geta degoogled phone. You can
install graph, you know, BMP.You can do this on your own. You
still gotta pay for the phone.
Right? So people, you know,they're not bound to only you're
not the only person that can dothis for them. However, what
you've done is you've made itreally easy. Even someone like

(01:07:59):
me that I'm prettytechnologically savvy. For me,
it's like, oh, this is so mucheasier than trying to figure out
on my own.
Actually, we're I'm in theprocess of kind of finalizing.
I'm getting one of these abovephones for myself and for my
wife. We're we're both gonnaditch the iPhones. I'm gonna
finally make the move, kindaditch, like, like, you know,
kind of really practice what Ipreach. Right?
And so we're gonna get these,you know, the above phones

(01:08:19):
because I believe in it. And andyou we've had some great
conversations offline as well.But so if someone wants to go
through above phone, and it'slike, okay. Makes it easy.
There's a few questions I have.
Okay? One is, can I use myexisting phone number? Right? As
because I I have my phone numberI've had since, I think, I was,
like, probably 13 years old.I've got contacts that might

(01:08:40):
call me from, you know, 23 agothat I still wanna have them
give them the ability to reachme.
That's one thing. I'm on I'm ona plane with AT and T right now,
which it just it it is what itis. So, because I know that for
a lot of people, like, you say,okay. You have to change
providers. You have to changeyour phone number.
It's like, oh, that that's justtoo much. Right? So, can I keep

(01:09:03):
my phone number, keep my currentservice, you know, still get the
best of both worlds? And whatdoes the process look like to do
that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Yes. It's it's a very simple process. So if you're
using an existing provider likeAT and T and your existing
phone, there's a little card inthere and we will walk you
through how to take that cardout and you can put it in the
above phone. Chances are it'sgoing to be the same size and
then you just plug it into theabove phone and the above phone

(01:09:32):
will be your next phone. It'llget activated with your cell
service.
Now all of your phone calls andtext messages will go to It's
really it's like a five minuteprocess to do that. And what we
have done for our company thatdifferentiates it if you're
getting it off of eBay or evenif you're getting it from
another company is that we havea setup call with a real live

(01:09:53):
person, not an AI. So we'll siton call with you just like this
and we'll help you migrateeverything from your old phone
to your new phone, including theSIM card. So short answer, yes,
you can keep your number. Yes,you can keep your cell service.
We also have our own cellservice. Some people like to,
you know, some people are veryattached to iMessage and
FaceTime, right? You know,they're just super used to it

(01:10:16):
and they might decide, okay, I'mgoing to keep my old phone just
for family things and I'm goingto keep this new phone for
privacy related things toresearch, to explore, and they
have that separation. And so forthem, they could get a new cell
service. They can use this phonewith Wi Fi only.
They can even use this phone onEthernet so it's not generating

(01:10:37):
radiation, which is really,really cool. So there's a lot of
options to play around with it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Okay. And so I'll pull up your your website. If
somebody wants to to get this,what is the what's the process
look like? So your phone so I'llput make sure these links are in
the descriptions. Just abovephone.com.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Above phone.com/seth, because we've got some special
deals for for y'all. And, yeah,you can go on, that page or or
the front page. And, if you hitshop, it'll take you down to or
sorry. It's that purple buttonin

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Okay. Here we go. Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Yes. So okay. Cool. So you can click shop on this
page, which will take you downto the phones. So we've got
phones, we've got laptops, whichI'd love to show you another
time.
So and then we have severaldifferent models of phones.
Right now, the most popular oneis the 9a. This phone will get
updates till 02/1932. It's gotamazing specifications. It's
really one of the phones you canthe best phones you can buy on

(01:11:36):
the market today.
And we have it heavilydiscounted for Man in America
Community so check that out. Andthen below that too, we have
some other different options.The Pixel nine Pro XL. This will
give you more storage space ifyou need it. I know we've talked
about that a little bit.
If you need more than 128gigabytes of storage, you can

(01:11:57):
expand the storage on thosemodels there. And then also the
phones, you can also get anadditional storage drive which
will increase the ability of thestorage onto them when you plug
it in. There's also the seven awhich is a it's a phone that's
one or two years old now andit's more of a budget model and
then the six a. So those everysingle phone, all the features

(01:12:19):
are gonna be the same. They allhave a camera.
They all have they all haveBluetooth. They all have WiFi.
They all have hotspots. All ofthose are the same, but then the
quality of it, right? Like thethe finish, how fast it is, how
how nice the camera is, how longthe battery life is.
Those are the main differences.So the 9a and the nine Pro XL

(01:12:40):
are the best. And then if youhave any questions specifically
about phone models, you'llnotice that chat with us button
at the bottom right. So justchat with us anytime Monday to
Wednesday Monday to Friday, 9AMto 6PM, and we'll answer any of
your questions. Then if you goif you keep scrolling down,
Seth, we also have laptops.
So I know you were looking at anew privacy laptop. These are

(01:13:03):
Linux laptops. They're using aLenovo hardware which are really
we chose them because they'revery reliable, they're solid, we
tested them well, and then weactually developed our own
operating system based off of aversion of Linux that is
typically advanced. But what ourgoal was for this one was to
make a computer that you don'thave to use the terminal at all.

(01:13:24):
I think that's some people'sgreatest fears when they use
Linux.
Am I going have to tinker withit? So this computer, all of the
things like installing updates,installing the program, it's
literally just point and click.That was our goal with this one.
And the Aluminum six is areally, really cool computer. It
can fold three sixty degrees andturn into a tablet.
There's even a stylus that comeswith it. It's got a eleventh Gen

(01:13:48):
processor. And then we also havean older version of aluminum.
And then we've got the starterfor those who like the budget.
So these are really, really nicemachines.
They come with full diskencryption, they're highly
secure, way more secure than alaptop you get at the store.
They're also very private.There's zero connections to big
tech, and you can actuallyinstall all the software that

(01:14:08):
you would normally use. Prettymuch all the software you'd
normally use. Not the Adobestuff, but you can get things
like Spotify, Zoom, even stufflike Microsoft Teams, which is
crazy, but you can you can getthat stuff if you need it for
work.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
So that's how so it's nice to know that there's just
kinda highlighting this thisthere are budget options. You
know, $600 for a budget p youknow, computer. And, you know,
from the phones, you know, the 6a because I know we we've got
discount, you know, if you abovephone.com/seth, or I think if we
if you use Seth in the, checkoutas a promo code.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
But $25 off. Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah. And so six a's, you know, it's it's, you know,
$4.99. So $500. Look. Inflation,you know you know, for some
people, it's a stretch.
However, this is one of the mostimportant things that can be
done for our own privacy. So forsomeone that is more on a
budget, you know, $500, you'rethere. And actually, you know,
lot of the phones anyway, you'repaying it's like, oh, you get a

(01:15:02):
free a free iPhone or whatever.It's like, oh, actually, what
you realize you're paying extra$15 a month for the next two
years to pay to pay off thatphone that they gave you. You
bring up a

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
you bring up a good thing too. If you could click
into one of those phones, justany of them, and I just wanna
walk you through the optionstoo. And like like like you
said, Seth, it's you get lockedin to your provider. That's why
they they give you that phonefor $50 a month or whatever it
is because they know they cancharge you. They're gonna charge
you for two years.
You won't be able to switch thatphone over. So this phone is

(01:15:33):
unlocked, meaning you could useit with any carrier. And then we
also offer payment plans too. Soyou could break it up into four
payments. You can make the costeven more affordable.
Check that out on checkout. Withthe phone, you can get the case
and screen protector. You canget that additional storage
drive, and you can also get theEthernet adapter which will let
you plug it into the hardwire.And then this is what I wanted
to mention above suite, which isthis is our private email,

(01:15:55):
calendar, encrypted chat,Internet phone number, video
conferencing, search engine andVPN. You get all of those
services for $100 a year.
It's a very affordable solution,all running on open source
software, running on our owndata center. There are no third
parties in this website and allof the things we use to run our

(01:16:15):
company. There are literally nothird parties. So we run a
massive mountain ofinfrastructure just to keep
strong to our principles and toprotect your data. There's also
a new file sharing service wereleased.
So this service is a $100 ayear. It's called AboveSuite.
Make sure to check it out on,checkout.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Oh, so basically, AboveSuite is instead of having
you know, being using GoogleDrive and and, say, a Gmail, the
above suite basically gives youall that stuff. Right? It gives
you highly encrypted and and andprivate chat, Internet phone,
Internet based phone, VPN andDNS, which is important, right,
to to you know, for moresecurity. Private email. Right?

(01:16:56):
Like, file sharing, videoconferencing, search. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
And and Seth, you know what our goal is? Is is
that people start using theseservices to build the counter
economy. Right now, the economyis not getting any better and we
all need to think of these sidehustles or ways to exchange with
each other directly. Some peoplehave started farming. Other
people are doing a holisticmodality.

(01:17:21):
So it's our hope with theseservices, people can start their
own businesses and we can startshifting society in a more
positive direction, not thecentralized top down tyrannical
direction these big techcompanies wanna take us. So I
just wanna thank you for forgiving us this opportunity to
share, and I I can't wait to getyou and your wife, set up on the
phones. I know you're gonna lovethem.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
No. It's great. I appreciate you giving us your
time, and and I'm I'm lookingforward to it. Like, I genuine
as much as in the past, I I waskinda, you know, hoeing and
humming. It's like, I don'twanna get I don't wanna get rid
of my phone because it has agood camera and all this kind of
stuff.
But, anyway, the the fact thatyou just you've kinda thought
this all through to thesepackages, I'm I'm very impressed
with it. And I've been I've beenlooking at different like,
there's there's I know EricPrince has a phone that he's

(01:18:02):
doing, but I know he's tied intoa lot of the military industrial
complex. And, you know, there'scertain hesitancy that I there.
Didn't to

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
talk about Trump phone. But yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
Well well, why don't you give us, like like, the
sixty second on Trump becauseTrump phone, it's also I saw
it's being made in China. Isthat correct? Like, initially, I
saw it was made in The USA, butI saw another report saying it
was gonna be made in China.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I don't know how you can, you know, you can
misrepresent your product soboldly, but, yes, that's that's
what happened. There's a pressrelease saying, hey. It's made
in America. It's impossible tomake a phone in America. We
don't make any processors inAmerica.
The closest thing would be inTaiwan. And then someone on
Twitter found that the, Trumpphone was just a, it was a t t

(01:18:44):
mobile revel phone that was justpainted gold. It's got like the
exact same specs. It looks theexact same. So I don't know.
I don't know where the wirescross there, but you're not
going to get a phone made inAmerica, which is unfortunate.
Maybe one day, not today. Theother thing too is I looked into
Trump's mobile service, and ifyou look at the privacy policy,

(01:19:05):
it says you will interact withAI systems that will learn from
your behavior. Even read yourGPS coordinates, like, it
literally says that in theprivacy policy. So, hey.
Like, I don't know where Trump'sgoing for it. I know he's really
embracing AI, but maybe he'staking it too far.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
I have to say that maybe a a year ago, I maybe
would've got a Trump phone. Butafter Palantir and after a lot
of these developments and and,you know, Larry Ellison and
Oracle, I I can't say that I'vegot a lot of faith in Trump
protecting us from the digitalprison. Like, as much I think

(01:19:45):
he's trying to protect ournation for a lot of things, and
and it's a whole differentconversation. When it comes to
data and and privacy, I can'tsay I'm I'm that confident in
things that he's doing. So,anyway, I'm I'm glad that you
mentioned it because it's worthworth discussing.
But

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
All that glitters is not gold, and thank you for for
sticking up for your principlesand no. Not just blindly
following a leader becausethat's really what we need.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
It is. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Akim, it's
been great speaking to you. I'mwe'll do an update.
Once I get our phones set up andwe're using them for a couple of
weeks, we'll do another show andand kinda talk more about this.
Because I honestly, I think thatyou you've solved a really
important issue. And and I Imentioned at the beginning, and
and I and I really I I I reallybelieve this. I I really believe
that these phones are the mostpowerful tool that the deep

(01:20:35):
state or whatever you wannarefer them as, it's the most
powerful tool they have toenslave us, is is is the
convenience of this phone andall the tracking. And right now,
it feels like it's okay.
But what happens when there'spandemic two point o that comes
out? And now they're gonna say,hey. We're gonna mandate
everyone that has these phones,you know, like, it's no longer
an option through Google andApple. I just I see there's so

(01:20:55):
many, there's so many potentialbad outcomes through this. So I
I really appreciate what you'redoing.
I thank you for giving us, yourtime. I thank you for I know we
got a discount from the Man inAmerica audience. So I'll make
sure all those links are in thein the description, and I look
forward to having thisdiscussion again.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
Thank you, Seth. Yep. Thanks for having me on, and, I
look forward to connect more.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
Perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Thanks everyone for watching.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Tech CEO Exposes the Diabolical Plan to ENSLAVE Us Through Smartphones

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

Tech CEO Exposes the Diabolical Plan to ENSLAVE Us Through Smartphones

Stuff You Should Know