October 14, 2019 • 65 mins
Terry Gannon knows how to make a broadcast entertaining, but he also knows how to close out a championship game as an all American. You'll recognize Terry as a voice from NBC Sports and the Golf Channel, but you'll probably have heard him call everything from NBA basketball to figure skating to horse racing, to motocross world cup soccer and even the closing ceremony of the Olympic games.
Terry knows a great deal about managing high pressure moments, both as a play-by-play announcer and also as a NCAA Champion athlete. Terry took an early interest in sport psychology and he also shares some of what he learned about the mental game under the great Jim Valvano. His experience speaks for itself and he has a lot of great things to share in this episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Shepp (00:09):
Thanks for tuning in to manage the moment
conversations in performancepsychology.
I'm Dr.
Sari Shepphird.
Terry Gannon (00:17):
I want to connect with the audience and and make
this two hours of coverage onthis basketball game I'm doing
or whatever it is, as enjoyableas possible.
And you do that by making themwant to spend the time with you.
And that's kind of the lastthought I have before I go on
the air, is make that person outthere enjoy the next two hours.
(00:43):
However, I can do that.
Dr. Shepp (00:46):
Terry Gannon knows how to make a broadcast
entertaining, but he also knowshow to close out a championship
game as an all American.
You'll recognize Terry as avoice from NBC Sports and The
Golf Channel, but you'llprobably have heard him call
everything from NBA basketballto figure skating to horse
racing, to Supercross world cupsoccer and even the closing
ceremony of the Olympic games.
(01:08):
Terry Gannon knows a great dealabout managing high pressure
moments and he shares hisexperience with us on today's
episode and I think you'rereally going to enjoy listening
to what he has to say.
Hi Terry.
Thanks so much for joining metoday for this conversation.
Terry Gannon (01:22):
Sari.
I'm really looking forward toit.
Good to be with you.
Dr. Shepp (01:25):
Thanks.
I'm looking forward to it aswell.
I have a short list ofbroadcasters that I admire the
most in terms of style andyou're on the short list.
Um, but also I, I absolutely, Ialso appreciate what you have to
say because you talk a lot moreabout the mental game than
perhaps most other broadcasters.
Uh, and I wonder if that'sbecause of your experience as an
(01:45):
athlete.
Terry Gannon (01:47):
I think it probably is.
Um, I, I'm fascinated by it.
I mean, these are all, when you,when you cover, whether it's the
women's British open or the, thethe open championship or you're
doing Simone Biles, you know, atthe U S gymnastics championships
or the NBA or college basketballteamin the greatest athletes in
the world.
(02:07):
What separates them?
They're all great, you know, Imean, they've made it to the
highest level and oftentimeswhat separates them is the
mental part of the game.
And having played basketball and, and been a part of a national
championship team and played fora guy Jim Valvano who was just a
master at motivating teams.
(02:28):
Um, the mental side of it reallyis something that I think is as
important or more important thananything.
And I think it comes from beinga player and having been through
it and having had their prepareand believe in yourself and get
to that point where you believeyou can get it done as a player.
And I kind of think that way asa broadcaster.
Now when I watch these athletes.
Dr. Shepp (02:51):
Well, I want to talk to you a little bit about your
experience, both as an athleteand as a broadcast or, but when
we were preparing for theconversation today, you
mentioned you had read a sportspsychology book back in the day
when applied sports psychologyreally came into its modern form
, um, a book called psychocybernetics by Maxwell Maltz.
Yeah.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou remember from that book and
(03:13):
why it stuck out to you.
Terry Gannon (03:15):
I was in high school and a basketball player,
a baseball player.
Eventually, um, went and playedan NC state, but somebody
recommended that book to me andI read it and it just totally, I
connected with it.
It was something that I went, Ohmy gosh, this, this is something
that I actually can help me.
(03:36):
And as you know, I mean, I thinkit was written in 1960 so this
was the, the 80s when I read it.
Um, and I, I started to apply it, uh, the, the thought of
visualization and trying tovisualize in the most concrete
way, really putting yourself ina position of what it's going to
(03:57):
feel like on the court the nextday.
Um, the sounds, the smells everylittle bit.
Not just trying to visualizeyourself making jump shots, but
literally down to the sensoryaspect of it and getting as
relaxed as you can, uh, beforeyou go to sleep every night.
I would do it every night inhigh school.
(04:18):
And then in college, as anathlete, as I fell asleep, I try
to visualize in the most relaxedstate that I could because your,
your mind on some level doesn'trecognize the difference between
a real and imagined experiencewhen, for example, you wake up
in a cold sweat, having had anightmare.
It feels so real and, and thenmade sense to me and I, so I
(04:41):
started to practice it and Ijust did it throughout my career
as an athlete and I still do itas a broadcaster.
Dr. Shepp (04:48):
I was going to ask you, do you imagine yourself in
the different situations thatyou have when you're
broadcasting?
Terry Gannon (04:52):
Yeah, I do.
Um, you know, I can't say I doit as much now.
Um, I'm getting up there.
I've been around for a while.
Um, but certainly early on in mycareer as a broadcaster, I, uh,
I was off.
I, I was, I had such goodfortune to be in a situation
where I was at at the time atABC sports and they would come
(05:16):
to me and say, Hey, we need youto go do figure skating next
week in Tokyo.
And I'd say, okay, I've neverdone figure skating.
I know who Peggy Fleming is.
And that's about the extent ofmy knowledge.
Oh, you'll be fine.
So that's, there's that briefmoment where you go, Oh my God,
I can't do this.
This is going to be a disaster.
Or you say, Hey, somebody's gotto do it.
(05:39):
And that, that attitude, I mustsay was instilled in me from Jim
Valvano at NC state.
He was just, he believed thatsomebody has to do with why not
you.
And it was that attitude, whichallowed me to say yes, but then
you had to figure out how to doit.
And what I would do.
And the same thing with collegefootball.
(06:01):
On a Tuesday, uh, the executiveproducer of ABC called me up and
said, Hey, this Saturday I needyou to do play by play on North
Carolina and Georgia tech.
And the network.
And I said, well, it's notbasketball season.
No, no football.
Um, Oh, okay.
So in four days I need to figureout how to be a football play by
play guy.
And, and so it was, you do a lotof things to prepare, but then I
(06:25):
would visualize and I, and Iwould, um, spend that time
putting myself in that position.
So I still do it today, maybenot as much, but I try to, um,
capture what it's going to belike the next day on the air,
what we're going to be covering.
So that I've been through it inmy mind already once when it
(06:46):
actually takes place.
Dr. Shepp (06:47):
It's great that you recognize the benefit of that
mental rehearsal.
And now we know throughtechnology over the decades
since that book was written fromFMRI studies, that the brain
really does, um, recognize thestimulus of mental imagery in
much the same way as, as liveaction.
So, so what you experienced andwhat you felt was true has been,
(07:08):
has been proven truth throughscience.
Um, but when you think aboutpreparing for sports that you
have not called before you, yougo online, you research the, the
sport, you get a little bitabout the terminology, but then
yet there's still that sense ofperformance pressure I would
imagine because you have to getit right.
Terry Gannon (07:26):
You're right.
Uh, and that is exactly what youdo.
Um, when I started doinggymnastics, uh, the first thing
you do is you go online and youwatch tape, uh, of previous
events and you figure out the,the, the, the wording, the
nomenclature, how, how peoplecover it, the pacing of it.
And you get that in your brain.
(07:47):
Then you start to do yourresearch on the current stars
and athletes, the ones that camebefore the history of it.
And you take all that in, butthen you've got to put yourself
in that position.
And no matter what sport you'redoing, you're covering.
The one thing I try to remindmyself, and this is something I
do before I go on the air everytime, is that what I want to do
(08:10):
is I want to connect with theaudience and and make this two
hours of coverage on thisbasketball game I'm doing or
whatever it is, as enjoyable aspossible, and you do that by
making them want to spend thetime with you.
In the end, you are stillcovering sports.
It's entertainment, it's notlife or death, and that's kind
(08:34):
of the last thought I havebefore I go on the air is make
that person out there enjoy thenext two hours.
However I can do that.
And oftentimes that's byconnecting to the broadcast
partners that you're with andand making it conversational,
engaging them, picking theirbrains.
Because oftentimes it's, I lookat it as like last weekend we're
(09:00):
covering the gymnasticschampionships.
It's nasty.
Luke and Tim dad getting me,they are the experts.
They know more than 95% of theaudience or 99% of the audience
and they've been there and donethat.
I want to engage as three peoplewatching this event in a
conversation as if we're justtalking about it and we're
(09:21):
excited about it.
And because of their knowledge,the viewer is going to learn as
well and enjoy it more.
Um, and I think that's the sameas for an athlete to when I was
an athlete, the last thing Ithought about was making this a
celebration of basketball.
I'm gonna go out there and havefun, um, and, and do what I've
(09:43):
always done.
Once you know, you can do it.
Like once you get a certainlevel where, okay, I can, I can
do this, then that last bit isjust saying let's let it all
happen.
Let's not force anything, let itcome to us.
Dr. Shepp (09:59):
And that's what stands out to me about you as a
broadcaster is that you are morein the moment than many
broadcasters that I watch orlisten to.
And I know that you prepare, youclearly do, but you also allow
that preparation seemingly togive you more of a sense of
freedom.
Would you say that's true.
Terry Gannon (10:16):
I really thank you for saying that.
I'm going and you picking up onthat.
I appreciate that means a lot tome because I tried it.
That is exactly what I try todo.
It is the last unscriptedtelevision.
I mean, yes, reality shows, butlet's be honest, they're
scripted to some degree.
Sports is not scripted.
You do not know what's going tohappen.
(10:37):
Even in a sport like figureskating or gymnastics where you
have a routine and there's aplan routine.
But the athletes gotta adjust aswell on the fly.
If they, if they don't do thistriple later on, they've got to
add it.
But maybe with a combination andthey're constantly adjusting.
And as a broadcaster, that'swhat I want to convey.
(10:58):
The, the aspect of being in themoment.
So like at the end of an event,when it comes down to the
defining moment at the end of agame or a golf tournament, I
don't ever prepare a line likethat that, okay, I'm gonna say
this as if this person wins thegolf tournament.
(11:18):
I'm gonna say this, I, I let ithit me when we're on the air.
I'll give you an example.
A couple of weeks ago, we had aHanako Shaboo no, who was a
young teenager playing in ourfirst major championship in the
women's British open.
And they call her the smilingCinderella, uh, in Japan.
(11:38):
And she has, she's, she smilesand laughs her way around 72
holes for four days around thegolf course.
And she's waving like she's inthe Rose parade the whole time
left and right to all the, thecrowd.
And, and when she wanted it, shemade this incredible putt to win
it.
And I said something to theeffect of the, the glass slipper
(11:59):
fit.
Well, it just hit me becausewhen we won the national
championship in 1983, our radioannouncer, cause we were the
Cinderella story.
That's what he said.
But, but it hit me in themoment.
Oh my God, it applies here.
Boom.
And, um, hopefully, uh, that itcame across as real and in the
moment and off the cuff does.
It was, but I, I'd much rather,even if I don't come up with the
(12:23):
greatest line, I'd much ratherbe in the moment than have
scripted that.
Dr. Shepp (12:28):
And that makes for good broadcasting.
I, and I think that thatexperience broadcasters try to
allow that freedom to occur.
For example, the, the line inthe miracle on ice.
I mean who, who can forget that?
And that was an unscriptedmoment, but, but I think, um,
you're living out the principlesthat you first read about way
back in the 80s becausePsycho-Cybernetics does talk
(12:49):
about that.
Um, maximum Walt says that youshould just focus on doing one
thing at a time and that, that,um, you should live in the
present moment and release allthought about outcome of your
creative activity.
And it sounds like you reallytried to do that.
Terry Gannon (13:02):
Yeah, I do.
And, um, that is, I guess whereI first kind of learned it and
thought about it.
Um, when I went from high schoolto the ACC, it was kind of a
golden age in, in the ACC, incollege basketball.
I mean, all, all of a suddenyou, you, you're on the floor
and you find yourself guardingMichael Jordan and it occurs to
(13:24):
you, I can't guard MichaelJordan and, and, and then you're
playing against Sam Perkins andJames worthy and Ralph Samson
and the logical part of yourbrain says, you know, I'm good
but I'm not as good as theseguys, but what you, what you do
or what I did at least is Isaid, look, just play
(13:48):
basketball.
And I realized it's, it'sbasketball, it's what I've done
all my life.
Just go play and do the thingsyou, you know how to do.
Um, and then you get to a pointwhere you believe, Hey, I can do
this.
I, I can hang.
Um, but it is about letting ithappen and being in the moment
(14:12):
too.
Uh, because even thevisualization the night before
or the day of or what, wheneveryou're doing that, um, it's kind
of, that's kind of unscripted toeverything.
You want to be positive, but youlet that happen to you don't
script it per se,
Dr. Shepp (14:29):
and you're using mental imagery to help calm
yourself as well.
I would imagine just to try toreduce the fear and the worry
and just execute the skill thatyou, you know, that you have
when, when you were justspeaking, um, just now it
sounded like that's where youput your mind is on the skill
that you know, you have and whatyou control about what you bring
(14:49):
to the situation, rather thingsthat you can't control.
Terry Gannon (14:52):
Yeah, I, yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, you know, and, and whatwe're talking about has gotten
so big in athletics, but I covera lot of golf and it's, it's
gotten huge in golf whereeverybody's got a sports
psychiatrist or psychologistworking with them, um, to do
(15:12):
just that, to, to worry aboutthe process.
And we get, sometimes it getstrite and it sounds cliche when
an athlete says that in aninterview, well, I'm just taking
it one step at a time and I'mgoing one shot by one shot.
But it is psychologically atleast about that because you,
you can't control the outcome.
(15:35):
You can control the process andbeing in that moment fully to
pull off the best shot that youcan pull off at that time or
playing college basketballagainst Michael Jordan.
If you think about the outcomewhile you're going to
immediately go to, yeah, he'sthe greatest player of all time.
This is not good.
Um, you, you, you ha, you haveto control what you can control
(15:59):
and get open for that jump shotand, and take it just like
you're taking it against anybodyelse or on the golf course.
You know that that bunker shot,that fairway bunker shot from
180 yards over water.
You can't think about theoutcome.
You gotta think about theprocess in order to pull that
off.
Um, and we've gotten you, youknow, much more than I and I,
(16:20):
I'd love to pick your brainabout where we've come with that
since the days of psychocybernetics and Maxwell moles.
But I do think watching thegreatest athletes in the world,
all of those principles stillapply that were laid down back
then.
Dr. Shepp (16:34):
Absolutely.
And of course I would besomebody who would a hundred
percent agree with you.
Um, and, and we have reallyadvanced the field quite a lot,
especially with applied researchand with the technology that we
use.
Um, but, but a lot of it stillcomes down to the same
principles you just discussed,which is being in the moment,
uh, executing what's in front ofyou, staying, staying there in
(16:54):
that process.
And, uh, it's more difficult todo sometimes than other times,
but it's, it's never, um, it's,it's never lessened in its
importance.
You really have to focus yourmind on the things that you can
control and stay with thatprocess.
So building the process for eachathlete is gonna look different.
Um, but it's important acrossthe board regardless of sport,
(17:16):
regardless of whether it's ateam sport, individual sport, um
, the mental side of the game isso important
Terry Gannon (17:22):
and you know what the, there are also I played
with and now I have coveredathletes who just don't seem to
get the situation they're in andhow much pressure they should
feel like it's, it's just anatural thing for some athletes.
(17:43):
They have such both eitherbelief in themself or a single
minded focus where it doesn'teven hit them that they're
supposed to feel pressure inthis moment.
And if I Marvel at that and thenthere are other athletes who
absolutely get every aspect ofthat and work hard, taking
(18:03):
themself to a place wherethey're in the moment.
Dr. Shepp (18:07):
Yeah.
And it is going to be differentfor every athlete because
sometimes it's really hard workto stay in the moment and you
really have to work the processhard and you have to trust the
process and respected andembrace it.
But you really have to work ithard.
And for other athletes therethey're able to narrow their
attention and their focus totheir skill and to that moment
(18:29):
with the seeming ease.
And so it does vary person toperson.
Um, I'm glad you point that outbut, but, but I would say that
seems like what you experiencewhen you're broadcasting is you
don't, you don't seem to, I'mnot sure about your experience,
but you don't seem to notice thepressure of the situation.
I mean you've, you've called theRose parade, motocross college
(18:50):
basketball and football, worldcup soccer, ski jumping, the
Indy 500 rugby cycling, w NBAtour de France, Belmont stakes.
You worked on the wide world ofsports with Jim McKay.
Of course, folks today know youas a regular with Judy Rankin
calling the LPGA and then thePGA alongside certain[inaudible]
often times, but you also calledthe closing ceremonies of the
(19:12):
Olympic games.
And to me you seemed no morenervous in that situation than
in any other, um, and seemed tojust rely on the, the
preparation and the skill thatyou bring to any situation.
Terry Gannon (19:26):
Thank you for running down the bio too.
I appreciate that I'm worn out.
Now listen to go there.
Um, yeah, you know, when I'm,when I'm nervous, service are,
are the days leading up whenit's something that I haven't
done before.
If it's the closing ceremony atthe Olympics because it's such a
different animal or back in theday you do the Indianapolis 500
(19:52):
for the first time and in thedays leading up, you're, you're
trying to learn as much as youcan and, and get it all down.
Well, I knock on wood, but inthe moments before the
broadcast, somehow a com comesover me and it's, it's like you
(20:13):
switch into a mode that I'vedone this a million times,
whatever sport it is or whateverI'm covering.
I got this and I, I don't fullyunderstand where that comes
from.
And it's also the time where Iget most excited about going on
(20:33):
the air.
It's, I, I just get excited whenthe producer's counting down 10,
nine, eight and until that redlight goes on, um, I, I think
it's a sense if I could put myfinger on it.
It's a sense of competition.
I just love competition.
(20:55):
People competing, especially atthe highest level, but maybe
even not at the highest level.
I mean, if you're calling a ahigh school game that, that,
that moment, yeah, before thegame starts, the anticipation
and I just, I just get excited.
I don't get nervous.
Um,
Dr. Shepp (21:10):
you thrive on that intensity.
Terry Gannon (21:12):
Yeah.
And, and it's what really getsme going about my job no matter
what it, it's what makes thatride to the airport or getting
on the rental car bus, callingmy bags all over the place were
worth it is that moment when youactually[inaudible] I go on the
(21:33):
air and you are, it's all aboutthe enfold in front of you and
you don't know how it's going tocome out, what the outcome's
going to be.
Dr. Shepp (21:40):
Well, but you trust yourself enough to be in the
moment, right.
Because it's, it's not thatyou've never made a mistake in
your career, I would imagine,but you trust yourself enough to
know that you'll be able to, toget through it or to recover or
to, to tune back into what'shappening in the moment so that
you can stay with it,
Terry Gannon (21:58):
make a mistake at least every time out.
Um, but that, the other aspectof that too I think is owning up
to it and immediately justsaying, Oh, sorry about that.
Uh, this is the case or that'sthe case.
Ms boat.
Uh, people forgive you.
People I think as, as a viewer,as I watch sports, um, first of
(22:20):
all, um, I'm able to watchsports and not critique the
announcers all the time, thankgoodness because it would drive
me crazy.
I'd never watched.
Um, but the ones that I reallylike are the ones who are just
honest, like you're sitting onthe couch next to them and if
they make a mistake, they justown up to it and correct it
(22:40):
right away.
Um, and I think fans are veryforgiving that way.
I think when you try to cover itup or act like you didn't make
mistake is when they're gonnaactually hold it against you.
Um, but Oh, go ahead.
No, go ahead.
Dr. Shepp (22:52):
I was just gonna say you've also hit on, another key
of the mental side of things isthat you don't judge yourself.
When you spend time judgingyourself, criticizing yourself,
you, you lose focus in, in themoment of, of what you're paying
attention to.
And, and you stay on thatmistake a little bit longer.
Your turnaround time, so tospeak, is, is longer.
So you're not able to get rightback in it.
So the fact that you don't judgeyourself for making a mistake,
(23:16):
instead you just own up to itand move on.
Terry Gannon (23:20):
Yeah.
And if your performance, yeah,and you tell me, I mean, I think
a big part of that is havingbeen an athlete too, because
that's exactly what you have todo when you're on the court or
you're on the field.
I mean, you don't have time todwell on it.
Or if you do, um, you're goingto compound the mistake.
And, and the toughest sports tome are the ones with S.
(23:42):
so Gulf for example, there's solittle time actually in the
activity of playing golf.
This swing, the pot, most of thetime you spend in that four and
a half hours and unfortunatelyit's like five hours plus now
the way rounds are taking, butit almost the entire time it's
(24:03):
in between the activity.
And that's the biggest challengeI think in like for golfers to
let go of that last shot thatlasts bad shot or that last
bogey on the previous hole.
Um, but it's, it's maybe thebiggest thing in terms of
success on the golf course, butI think it applies to all sports
(24:23):
and I, and having played, youknow, you, you turn the ball
over leading to a dunk foranother team.
I mean you've got to snap rightback in and forget about that.
And the athletes with the, theleast amount of memory are the
most successful ones that I'veencountered.
Dr. Shepp (24:38):
Right.
Absolutely.
And I think one of the reasonswhy people say that golf is such
a mental game is because thereis more time in between shots.
When you're on the basketballcourt, you don't have time.
You have, you have to turnaround, run the other way.
Um, but in golf you have anumber of minutes between shots
that take somewhere between 30to 45 seconds to, you know, to
(25:00):
execute in total.
Terry Gannon (25:01):
Absolutely.
And, and yeah, basketball's areactive sport.
Most of the time you're outthere reacting in golf.
You're not doing that.
You're, you're literallythinking about either your last
shot or your next shot andhopefully it's mostly your next
shot.
Um, and one of the greatadvances we've had in TV, I
think our, the, the microphonesto be able to pick up
(25:22):
conversations between caddiesand players or between two
players as they're walking up totheir next shot.
And some fans say, Oh, it's kindof boring.
What?
I want to listen to a catty.
I think it's fascinating becauseit, yeah, it totally takes you
into, it's not only coach playerin that conversation, it takes
(25:43):
you into the mindset of thatplayer.
And are they thinking about thatlast shot or are they thinking
about this next putter?
How are they thinking about thisnext spot?
And I often think that the mostsuccessful players are the ones
who, when you pick up thatconversation, um, they're,
they're probably there.
They're talking about thingsother than the next shot until
(26:06):
they get up to the ball and aretaking a look at now you click
in to your situation and whatyou're going to do.
And then you click in to yourpre-shot routine, which again,
that's part of the whole inbasketball as a free throw
shooter for example.
Um, it, I learned this early on,you, you have a routine and as
(26:29):
soon as you're handed the ball,you're not thinking about
anything except what you doevery single time you go to the
free throw line, boom, boom,boom, boom, four bounces, look
bend shoe, whatever your is.
And it's the same in, in golf.
And I think that the best, mostsuccessful golfers are the ones
(26:50):
who are taking their mind awayfrom what's going on and then
they click in when they getthere.
Dr. Shepp (27:03):
You're doing such a great job of describing sports
psychology.
Really.
You are, um, a lot of the keyprinciples that you mentioned
are, are just so true andunchanging depending on the
sport or the generation orwhatever it might be.
It's these, these principlesdon't change.
But in golf, when you have afour or five hour round and then
it's played over maybe fourdays, three or four days,
depending by the, by the timeyou get to the back nine on the
(27:26):
last round, your mind is goingto be exhausted.
If you're thinking about golfthe entire time, yeah, you're
going to lose your ability justto make the best course
decisions or feel like you'restill there, you know, in the
tournament because you're justgoing to be exhausted.
So you're right.
I think players that whenthey're walking in between
(27:47):
holes, they put their mind onsomething else.
Uh, and then when it comes time,when you actually get up to the
ball and you, you see where itlie and you address the ball and
get ready to take your, whatyour best swing on it, um, and
then you switched to having yourmind back in the game.
I think that makes for a goodcombination.
Terry Gannon (28:05):
I think I also over the course of days too,
because if you play a four dayevent, yeah.
Um, you better, once you leavethe golf course that night or
afternoon, you better get awayfrom it and not really think
about it until that next day.
Uh, now if you get to outsomething and you, you gotta
head to the range and work out alittle something in your swing
(28:25):
that you're not feeling fine, godo that, but then leave it and
go out to dinner or go out anddo whatever with your buddies or
, or, and, and it goes back as,as a basketball player.
And if, if people know about JimValvano and maybe watched our 30
for 30, uh, survive in advance,uh, but 1983 in our run to a
championship, he was a coachthat wanted you, we went to the
(28:48):
final four, he wanted us to takein everything about the final
four, take a go to practice with10,000 people there and, and
don't be shielded off.
We're not going to go practicein some little gym with no one
there because he wanted us totake all that in and experience
it.
He wanted us to go out at night.
(29:09):
He, I mean, his joke was yeah,we had bed check last night.
We checked at 10 o'clock.
All the beds were there
Dr. Shepp (29:15):
for their, I remember that.
Terry Gannon (29:16):
Right.
And, and, and for me, I mean Ithink that was a reason we
pulled off a great upset thenbecause, um, we got away from
it.
You weren't sitting there andthinking about there are some
coaches who, you know, you'vegot film session and then you go
and you have a closed practiceand they want you to go right
back to your rooms.
And, and, uh, not be out andabout.
(29:38):
And I think that makes itharder.
I think that puts more pressureon you as an athlete than the
opposite.
Dr. Shepp (29:47):
It does.
Absolutely.
And let, but let's switch alittle bit to your career as a,
as a collegiate basketballplayer because depending on the
generation of the listeners,some may not know that you are
part of something that someconsider one of the greatest
sports seasons, one of thegreatest sports moments in fact
in college basketball history.
And you played for and laterworked as an assistant coach for
(30:08):
the great Jim Valvano and I'msure that it's hard to
encapsulate what you learnedabout the mental game from him.
Um, but maybe you can recallsome of the things that he
discussed on the mental side ofthe, of the game.
Terry Gannon (30:20):
Yeah.
He, he was just the, the mostimpressive person I've ever been
around.
And I miss him every day and Imiss being able to call him up
and say, Hey, did you see mybroadcasts yesterday?
What'd you think?
And picking his brain.
He was one of those people whojust first of all had an
enthusiasm for life, wasexcited, every S and I was close
(30:44):
to him.
I not only worked for him as anassistant coach, but that was
very close to him, uh, until hepassed and still close with his
family.
And we spend a lot of time withhim.
And he would, he was excitedabout every minute that he was
alive and he was intoeverything.
He was a hiss, um, English majorin college.
And in halftime talk, she wouldquote great poets and authors
(31:07):
and he was into business.
He had a number of sidebusinesses.
He was into sculpture and inart.
And he started a business inthat way.
And, um, he was the kind of guywho made you believe you could
do anything and not with a rahrah Newt Rockne talk, but
because he believed in you, hegot that across and you didn't
(31:31):
want to let him down and he madeyou feel like you could, you
could accomplish anything and,and, um, and take on any task.
I mean really the entire reasonthat I kept saying yes, every
time an opportunity came my wayand broadcasting to do something
that I had never thought aboutwas because he instilled the
(31:55):
idea of, of why not and why notme.
Um, and he did that in thelocker room before the
championship game.
We were taking on Houston whohad two future hall of fame
players and he came Olajuwon andClyde Drexler and we were a
major underdog.
I think my dad even laid thepoints and took Houston that
(32:16):
night.
We weren't supposed to even staywith them.
And, and he came in the lockerroom and I, we tell this story
count into 30 for 30, sorry ifpeople saw it in him, boring
them.
But we had, you know, you havethe entire scattering report up
on the board and everything thatyou're going to do against this
defense and that defense andhere's how we're going to guard
them.
And they're, and, and he, and hetook an eraser and he erased
(32:39):
entire thing and he threw itaway.
And he said, if you think we'regoing to hold the ball and slow
it down in front of 50 millionpeople, you're crazy.
We're going to go out there andkick their ass.
And everybody just jumped up.
And that was the entire pregamespeech.
And it was perfect because whatwe needed to hear from him was
(33:00):
that he believed in us and hebelieved we were going to win.
And we were gonna find a way todo it somehow get us to two
minutes left with a chance towin the game and we're going to
find a way again, being in thatmoment and letting it happen.
And um, he, he, he slept aboutfour hours a night.
He was on all the time.
(33:20):
If you're in the same room withhim, you had to bring your a
game conversation-wise or, or hewould just take you down.
Um, he was just to be around.
He was, he motivated you everysingle second.
And, and I always left afterspending time with him, more
excited and motivated aboutlife.
And it's led to me acceptingopportunities that I would've
(33:42):
never accepted.
Dr. Shepp (33:44):
Yeah.
You mentioned that he would sayto you, don't limit yourself,
keep your mind and your eyeswide open for any opportunity
and it, and it seems like that'sexactly what you've done.
Terry Gannon (33:52):
That's how we lived.
And, and, um, you know, I, I, Iwould have never believed in
myself to the extent that I, Ihave without having had a coach
like him.
And he was said, you talkedabout the, uh, psychological
aspect of sports and the mindsetof athletes.
He wasn't, um, educated thatway.
(34:15):
He, he just knew what button topush and that buttons different
for everyone on the team.
That's the other thing.
He didn't treat us all the same.
He treated us based on ourpersonalities and needs as
players and people.
And he had a differentrelationship with every player.
Um, and I think that's importantfor coaches to when they, they,
(34:37):
they coach at the highest levelwith athletes, not the treat.
Everybody the same.
Different players need differentmotivation.
I mean, I know I played withplayers who needed to be
motivated to work hard and Iplay with players who just
needed to be told they were goodenough.
Um, and he believed that theycould get this done or that
(34:59):
done.
And you, it's not all the same.
And I think even when you're anaccomplished athlete at the
highest level, your professionalathlete, um, I think that's true
as well.
Dr. Shepp (35:10):
Well, he did bring out the best in you considering
you led that, uh, led the nationin three point shooting that bet
year three point shootingpercentage.
So some things certainly workedin terms of him being able to
bring out the best in you.
But one thing about yourrelationship with Jim Valvano is
, um, in contrast to your roleas a broadcast or where you seem
to always have something reallyfitting to say, um, about coach
(35:33):
Jimmy Valvano, you said that youdon't talk a lot about him
because you don't feel like youhave the words to really do him
justice and you don't knowexactly how to describe
everything that he was.
Terry Gannon (35:46):
Yeah.
I don't know if you've everknown a person like that.
Um, hopefully you have.
And, and I, if I try to getacross to you even right now,
what he was like, I'll for afall short, I, I mean, I, I'm, I
do my best to, because I thinkI'd like people to know, um, how
(36:06):
extraordinary it was.
And you know, he was, I mean, Iwent to see him a few times when
he was in the hospital at Dukebattling cancer at his worst.
And, um, he, you know, he'd haveto hit the button for
painkillers and fall asleep andhe wouldn't want to, but he
would wake up.
And every moment he's tellingme, all right, here's what we
(36:29):
need to do.
He was setting up the Vfoundation for cancer research,
literally as he's laying in thebed dying and saying, Frank's
going to do this and, andBobby's gonna do this, and
here's what I want you to do.
And he set up Ian, he, heenvisioned and literally set up
the entire V foundation as hewas dying of cancer.
(36:51):
And it's now, you know, over$200million, they built wings on
hospice.
They've saved lives.
It's, it's really one of thoseplaces saved one of his
daughter's life who, who has hadcancer.
So it's, um, he, he was just oneof those guys who you can't
fully capture when you talkabout a couple of weeks ago,
(37:11):
but, right.
Well about a month ago I played,uh, in the SPS golf tournament
with a friend who was a verygood friend of Jim Valvano's and
we spent the entire day talkingabout him because he understood
them and knew him.
And I did.
And you can talk about that.
(37:32):
If I spent the entire day tryingto tell people about him, I
don't think I can.
I think I'd always fall short ofcapturing him.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
[inaudible]
Dr. Shepp (37:46):
I think not having the words to describe somebody
in and of itself is, is anamazing Testament to who
somebody means and what theymean to you.
I mean, and who they were inyour life.
Um, one of the things you seemnot to do is give in to pressure
to say something when nothingneeds to be said, which is not
(38:09):
always easy.
But I, I noticed that in yourapproach to your work is if
there's an intense moment, youlet the moment speak for itself
and I think you're letting acoach fees, career and
personality and, and impactspeak for itself as well.
But, um, I'm drawing parallelsjust in your approach to your
work that sometimes you knowthat not saying something is the
(38:32):
right thing to do.
Terry Gannon (38:33):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Well, here's the thing.
Um, it's when, when there's agreat moment and the crowd goes
nuts and everybody, what am Igoing to say to add to that, to
make it better, right?
I mean, yeah.
Later the temptation is later onto have that piece of tape where
(38:54):
you call, you have this greatcall over a great shot or a
great moment, but in the moment,just take the people there.
Let, let the people watching onTV be there at the golf course
in that moment or in the arenaat that moment and experience
(39:15):
what it's like to be in thecrowd there in person watching
it.
And there's so many times whenyou do just, you should I think,
let it happen and, and, and, andjust let the moment take over.
So hopefully, hopefully I dothat for the most part.
And I appreciate you sayingthat.
Dr. Shepp (39:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
But it really does stand outthere at some broadcasters when
I'm listening to certain sportsthat I'll actually turn down the
sound and I won't, I won'tmention names of course.
Terry Gannon (39:43):
Well, I'm glad I'm not one of them.
Thank you.
Dr. Shepp (39:45):
No, when, when I tune into something you're calling, I
know that I'm going to enjoy itmore and that's the, that's
really my, my true feeling aboutit.
Terry Gannon (39:52):
That's the biggest compliment you could pay me.
So I appreciate that.
And that really is my goal everytime out.
Dr. Shepp (39:59):
Well, I'm, I'm happy to pay you a compliment that,
um, that is meaningful.
Um, one of the lines that Iwrote down, actually I a few
years back, um, when you werecalling the, uh, the free dance
at the U S Olympics, you werewatching the champions perform
in there.
Um, I think it was a shortprogram.
(40:21):
And w you said there theirbrilliance doesn't bring you out
of your seat.
It makes you sit back andcontemplate it.
And I wish of course I had saidthat more fluidly, but, um, when
you said that line, um, Ithought it was true.
It was 100% true.
There's some sports that youwatch and you just want to jump
(40:41):
out of your seat.
You can't sit still.
You have to pace the room ifyou're someone like me.
Um, and there's other timeswhere you watch and you're
simply in awe and you have tojust think about what you just
saw.
And I think that, uh, SimoneBiles triple double at the 2019
USA gymnastics championships isone of those moments where you
(41:04):
just have to sit and take stockof what just happened.
There's nothing else you can do,but just be in awe.
Terry Gannon (41:12):
I was totally in awe in the moment the other
night when she did that, eventhough I knew she was going to
attempt that.
Um, yeah, I, I think she is oneof those at one of those rare
athletes that doesn't justimpress you or make you cheer.
She, she literally makes yourjaw just drop, um, because you
(41:33):
can't believe what she's doing.
And I actually posted somethingon Twitter just because it hit
me.
Uh, having played in collegewith Spud Webb, excuse me, who
is five, six, maybe five, sevenand eventually won the slam dunk
contest in the NBA in 1986.
(41:53):
He, he was the kind of athleteand after practice, every day he
would just put on a dunkingshow.
Just, I mean, he would do thingsand he would sit there.
Everybody on the team would justsit there along the sideline and
watch him, excuse me, and justbe in awe.
And it's the closest thing towhat I saw the other night
(42:15):
happened with Simone Biles.
You, you, I, I want to keepwatching her.
I don't want her to leave themat.
I want her to be on floor theentire time or I'm being the
entire time.
And no disrespect to anybodyelse competing, but she is that
kind of once in a lifetimeathlete who does things that you
don't think should be humanlypossible.
Um, and you just kind of takethat in and hopefully we're in
(42:38):
enough replays for people to,uh, to appreciate it.
But he got, I know he got enoughplay because I came home the
next day, uh, and every, I mean,I, my mail man was talking about
it.
My dentist was talking about it.
Everybody was talking about whatshe had done the night before
Dr. Shepp (42:55):
and she's four foot eight powerhouse.
Terry Gannon (42:57):
I know.
Right?
Incredible.
Dr. Shepp (42:59):
Yeah.
And also Spud Webb.
I, I, um, I remember him too.
I was young at the time, but Iremember just what a powerhouse
he was in the show that he wouldput on my husband as a matter of
fact was in the pit.
Um, really that you won that.
Yeah.
The day that you won thenational championship.
Um, and, and so it, it's funnynow just looking back when I was
(43:20):
watching the, um, the 30 for 30,the survive and advanced that
you, they mentioned earlier,that's an ESPN film, by the way,
those of you who aren't familiarwith 30 for 30, I really
recommend you look it up andwatch it.
It's, it's, um, a great piece.
Uh, but when, when you mentionedwhat year it was and where,
where the, the final four tookplace, I had forgotten that.
And so I asked my husband, isthat the year that you were at
(43:43):
the final four?
And certainly it was prettyfunny.
Terry Gannon (43:46):
That is really cool.
I mean, I mean, yeah, about ahundred million people claim to
have been there that night now.
But I will, but I believe them.
I believe I do have Google.
Dr. Shepp (43:56):
Yeah.
Terry Gannon (43:57):
It's funny that the 30 for 30 actually has been
a great thing.
I, you know, we did that.
Um, and we went back to Raleighand we went to a place that we
used to hang out and they justturned on the cameras and the
microphones and there was, theydidn't say anything like, we
want you to talk about this orthat or whatever.
And we just talked as teammatesfor four hours and uh, they took
(44:20):
it all in and made a grid aspecial out of it.
But it was, we, we get togetheras a team every couple of years
and within five seconds it's,it's like, it was back in the
early eighties where, you know,same guys getting made fun of
for the same things and same,same guys who were leaders back
(44:40):
then.
Our leaders still now.
And, uh, I think one of thereasons and wherever I go cover
and thing that people stop meand tell me that they love that
30 for 30 is, um, it's a bunchof guys who just were very close
and, and we're able to pull offsomething extraordinary.
Dr. Shepp (44:57):
What an amazing experience you had.
Um, and an amazing career youcontinue to have.
And I, I could talk to you allday, but I don't wanna keep you
much longer.
I do have some questions that Iask everyone.
Um, so if it's okay, I'm goingto shift to those and, and get
your answers.
Terry Gannon (45:13):
Sure.
This has been great by the way.
I've really enjoyed it.
Dr. Shepp (45:16):
Oh, I'm glad Terri.
Um, so Terry, what in life areyou still curious about?
Terry Gannon (45:21):
I'm still curious about where life's gonna take
me.
I feel like I'm just startingand I don't, I don't know what
my next journey is.
Um, and I'm open to wherever ittakes me.
Dr. Shepp (45:33):
So you're still heating, um, coach fees words
then?
Apparently.
Terry Gannon (45:36):
Yeah.
And people ask me what, so howlong are you going to do this?
I'm like, I haven't even thoughtabout not doing this.
I want to know what's next,what's on the docket, next one.
Dr. Shepp (45:46):
That's great.
What is more distracting to youas a, as a broadcast or the
praise that you get or thecriticism?
Terry Gannon (45:54):
Ah, well, I'm going to be really honest and
I'd love to say the criticismdoesn't bother me, but we're all
human.
It, you can have 25 goodcomments and then there's one
who said, why did you see thiswhen this happened?
Would it?
And then you rethink it amillion times.
So, uh, anybody who says thatdoesn't bother them, I don't
(46:18):
know if I believe him.
Dr. Shepp (46:20):
And so then I'll just follow up with that really
quickly.
How do you get yourself over it?
Terry Gannon (46:25):
You get on your horse again the next time and
you go do it.
Um, I think that comes frombeing an athlete that what we
talked about.
I think it's, you forget aboutyour last swing or your last
shot that didn't go in or yourlast comment that wasn't on the
Mark.
And thankfully you have anotheropportunity the next week to go
(46:47):
back out and prove yourself.
Dr. Shepp (46:50):
Okay.
As a performer, you obviouslyprepare for every broadcast, um,
yet the unexpected can happen.
What is something unexpectedthat happened to you as a
broadcaster?
Terry Gannon (47:02):
Oh wow.
Well, the unexpected happensevery show.
I mean that's the, that's thebeauty of sports.
You don't know what to expect.
Um, ah, I'd have to give thatsome real thought.
Um, I don't know.
I'll get back to you on, I mean,literally, literally a few weeks
(47:25):
ago at the women's British open,this, this rookie who's never
been in a major championship,everybody just assumed, okay,
over the weekend she's going tofall back up in the final round.
She can't hang with thepressure.
And then when, when she, shemakes a birdie pot from like 20
feet on the green at 18 to winit at the end.
(47:45):
I mean, I think he can kindahear it in my voice how
unexpected it was that sheactually pulled this off.
So that's, that's the beauty ofwhat I do for a living
Dr. Shepp (47:54):
and talk about poise under pressure.
She was amazing.
She just smiled, had fun, seemto not take it so seriously,
which is often a key to successin, in high pressure situations.
Terry Gannon (48:03):
I know.
And somehow was able to keepdoing that.
Uh, yeah.
Did back to your big, uh, bigpicture part of your question
though.
So much of my career as abroadcaster is unexpected to me.
I didn't, first of all expect tobe a broadcaster.
I was going to be a coach.
Oh, that's right.
Your dad was a coach.
(48:24):
My dad was a coach.
That's what I always wanted todo.
I was an assistant coach for JimValvano and the opportunity
presented itself, excuse me, um,to go into broadcasting and I
kinda went in and talked to him.
Long story short, uh, he waslike, yeah, I'll hire you back.
Go take a shot, see what you cando.
And it was, that was hisattitude.
(48:44):
And um, that's how I got intobroadcasting.
And then every step of the way,and I know there's merit to
mapping out your future andhaving goals, but with me, it
was more of a dream than a goal.
Like I didn't say one day I wantto be sitting court side calling
(49:05):
the NBA playoffs or the finalfour or something.
I said, this is a great journey.
Let me see where it takes me.
And I was open to acceptingopportunities because of that in
areas that I never would have,except if I mapped it out, I
would've never said yes, I'll godo that figure skating show next
(49:28):
week.
Yes, I'll do play by play thisweekend on college football.
Yes.
I'll go do mountain biking forwide will the sport.
Yes, I'll do ski flying inSlovenia next week.
And so however that wasinstilled and I think a big part
of it was Jim Valvano.
Um, I feel fortunate for thatand the whole thing is
unexpected and that's why I kindof say, and I'm being truthful,
(49:50):
I don't know where the journeytakes me next.
Dr. Shepp (49:52):
That's cool.
And even your championship ofcourse was unexpected.
It was unexpected by everyonewho was watching, including all
the broadcasters who werecalling the the tournament back
then.
Um, but, but each time youadvance, your team got a little
bit more confident than if youcould just be in the game with
three minutes left, you'd find away to win.
But when you started off, Iimagine just the fact that you
(50:16):
are advancing along that journeywas something you, you didn't
really exist.
Terry Gannon (50:20):
No way.
I mean, yeah, it, we, we had to,in our minds, we had an injured
player, Derek Whittenburg, oneof our players through the
middle of the season.
He unexpectedly came back, wasable to play coming back from a
broken foot right at the end ofthe season.
But in our minds, we had to winthe ACC tournament just to even
get into the NCAA tournament,which included beating North
(50:42):
Carolina with Michael Jordan andSam Perkins on Saturday.
And then Ralph Sampson, who atthe time was even more of a
powerhouse than Michael Jordanand college basketball.
We had to beat Virginia onSunday and we did it.
And what happened along the way,we won these games in such
dramatic fashion coming frombehind that we would get in the
(51:03):
locker room after the game andkind of look at each other and
raise an eyebrow and smile andgo, how did we do that?
And, and you, what happenedalong the way is this belief
that I don't know what, who dowe have to play next?
The Celtics.
Okay, we'll find a way to win.
We don't know how, but if we'reclose to the end, we're going to
(51:23):
find a way to win.
It's just a belief that grewbecause we did come back and win
every game.
Dr. Shepp (51:29):
Yeah, he came from behind and um, yeah, absolutely.
But, but how much did that justreinforce the, your confidence
that you could do it if youcould perform as a team, if you
could, um, communicate with eachother effectively and put all
the things that you hadpracticed into play when it
mattered.
I'm, I'm sure your confidencejust built on, on that
(51:50):
experience.
Terry Gannon (51:51):
Look, I'm not saying, I mean it could have
ended very differently and wecould have been blown out by
Houston and the championshipgame and that was a very real
possibility.
But in our minds, once JimValvano said, you're going to
win, this is how you're going todo it.
And we're going to go out thereand we're going to be national
champions in front of 50 millionpeople.
(52:12):
In our minds it was a done deal.
We were going to win.
We didn't know how we, we willfigure it out, but we're going
to win this game.
And that's, I, I, you know, you,whether you're any gets back to
what we've been talking aboutthe whole time, but it's not
necessarily tricking your mindinto thinking something.
But, but it is finding a way toput that belief in your head and
(52:38):
it becomes a self fulfillingprophecy or it's got more of a
chance to do that.
Dr. Shepp (52:44):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And even if it comes down to alaw of in a dunk in the last
know a few seconds of a game,um, you've done everything you
can to, to prepare for theunexpected and, um, you just
trust yourself to, to put thatinto play.
And, and then, um, show up inthe moment.
Terry Gannon (53:01):
And I love how you call it a lob in a dunk.
You're buying Derek Whittenburgstory all these years that it
wasn't a shot and an air ball.
But yeah, I mean and, and who,how I'd want it if people do
know the story because Houstonwas famous for their dunks.
There were five slamma Jammathat's the high flying dunks and
(53:24):
we won the national championshipon the final play against them
on what?
On a dunk.
Amazing irony.
Dr. Shepp (53:33):
That's how I know my husband was really there cause
he's not even a basketball fan,but he described the last year.
Terry Gannon (53:38):
All right, that's true.
Dr. Shepp (53:41):
So back to these, uh, these questions.
What is one tweet or commentregardless of the means with,
with, with which it came to you,what does one tweet or comment
that stands out to you becauseof its impact?
Good, bad, or for whateverreason?
Terry Gannon (53:59):
These are hard.
These, I know, these are reallyhard.
Um, I don't know.
I tend to think of great calls.
I don't think in terms of tweetsor comments, you know, I mean,
so like Jack Buck, his call withthe, with Kirk Gibson's home run
(54:21):
stands out.
I don't believe what I just saw.
And is that poetry is that likeif you scripted and you wouldn't
make it as simple as that, butit's brilliant because it's so
simple and in the moment and itdescribes what everyone at home
is thinking.
Okay.
Dr. Shepp (54:40):
Yeah.
Like Jack Nicholas on, um, whatwas it, 16 at the 1986 masters?
Yes, sir.
Terry Gannon (54:46):
Yes.
Verne Lundquist.
Yes, sir.
Uh, or tigers chip in your life.
Have you ever seen anything likethat?
Um, it describes exactly whateverybody's thinking and that's
what you're hopefully going foras a broadcaster.
Dr. Shepp (55:02):
Terry, how do you move on from failure?
Um, and I'm not just talkingabout a mistake that you make,
you know, and, and cause we'vealready discussed that, but if
you, if you feel like you'veever had an experience, you walk
away from that registers as afailure.
How do you move on from that?
Terry Gannon (55:17):
Isn't that the great question of competition or
of success?
And it is all about that.
I try, it's not easy no matterhow many years you've been doing
what you're doing.
But I try to own up to it.
Um, I try to analyze it, I tryto face it and thankfully have
(55:40):
another shot and I try to vieweverything in, in light of what
sports kind of teaches you,which for me, the biggest thing
it teaches you is just that isthere's always another day.
Get back at it, learn from whatyou just did or failed to do and
come back stronger the nexttime.
(56:01):
Sounds trite, sounds oldfashioned, but I think it does
all come down to that.
And, you know, it's what gets mewhen I would go to my, my kids
are now college age, but wouldgo to their games.
Um, parents who don't quite seemto get that, that, that their
kid's not going to be a centerfielder for the Dodgers.
(56:21):
I mean, if it happens,beautiful, lovely.
And it's a, you know, one in amillion shot and guess what?
It's going to happen because ofthe kid, not the parent most of
the times.
Yeah.
Um, but those, those lessons,even as a kid that these, that
they're learning.
And for me that's the biggestone.
Make a mistake, get back out anddo it better next time.
Dr. Shepp (56:46):
It's the difference between a successful career and
a stalled career often.
Terry Gannon (56:50):
Yeah.
Cause I think you can, you cancreate that.
Again, it's a, it becomes a selffulfilling prophecy.
And what's in your mindoftentimes either tends to
happen or at least you allowthere to be a chance for
success.
You know, the, the old thing, uh, belief, hard work, enthusiasm,
it doesn't guarantee success.
It doesn't guarantee you'regonna win that.
(57:12):
But if you don't have thosethings, I can guarantee you, you
won't,
Dr. Shepp (57:17):
it kinda comes down to getting out of your own way.
So
Terry Gannon (57:20):
yeah.
Abs.
Absolutely.
Um, that's, and that's one ofthe hardest things to do,
Dr. Shepp (57:25):
right?
Absolutely.
Um, this is the last hard one.
Um, so have you ever had whatyou would say was a
transformative moment in yourwork and if so, what was it?
Terry Gannon (57:40):
Yeah, um, I mean there, there have been many,
cause they've had reallyopportunities to work with the
greatest and Jim McKay youmentioned, but I remember mayor
Brent Musburger[inaudible] washosting, we worked with Brent
and, and he was the overall hostof the, the world figure skating
championships.
And I was the play by play alongwith Peggy Fleming and Dick
(58:01):
button.
And there are these names, uh,Yulaina bears, Naya, Anton
secret leads say, all right, whowere Russian pair, who
eventually won the Olympic goldmedal?
But it's hard to say it,especially if you're not used to
calling figure skating.
And, and in the rehearsals, youknow, he, he was, he was getting
there, but he wasn't quite, and,and our producer kept saying,
(58:24):
Brent, you've got to get these,these names right.
Uh, when we go on the air,because figure skating fans know
them.
Don't worry about a kid.
I got it.
And so eventually we go on theair and they show the standings
and Brent says there they are atthe top, the Russians in second
(58:45):
place, Smith and Johnson fromthe United States.
And it hit me.
That's really it.
You go with what you know andyou stay away from what you
don't.
And, and really, I mean, I, it'suh, it's funny, but I learned
from that.
I was like, Oh, that'sbrilliant.
I love that.
Dr. Shepp (59:02):
Well, it avoids the, the alternative, which is fans
yelling at the TV or sending outtweets about how a broadcast or
butchered somebodies name ofplayer that they love.
So, um, but, but you pronouncedthe Ty golf players last names
pretty well, I must say.
So to
Terry Gannon (59:19):
dump us, we'll want to pour practice, say a
quickly with conviction.
I do.
I do remember I did the littleleague world series and uh, one
time it was Taiwan who was, um,in the championship game and you
know, you have to go around andset the lineup and, and I did
Pam bam, bam, bam with all thenames and this and that.
(59:41):
And after the broadcast, I wouldalways talk to my dad when, when
he was alive and eats it.
Boy, you are so good with thosenames.
You see, I mean, you kneweverything.
I said, dad, how would you knowif I made a mistake?
Seriously?
And Eddie said, well, that'strue.
I really wouldn't.
I really wouldn't know.
But you set them quickly withconviction.
I said, yeah, that's all I wastrying to do.
Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
Perfect.
Dr. Shepp (01:00:06):
Well, in 30 seconds or less, just to sum up, Terry,
what have you learned aboutyourself from your work as a
broadcaster?
Terry Gannon (01:00:13):
You are really getting inside my mind now.
You're really trending.
Um, I've learned that I canaccept different challenges and
be willing to do the work to tryto convey the competition as
(01:00:36):
best I can, no matter what sportit is.
I, I, I, I've learned throughthe years, and this was
something Jim[inaudible] used tosay, no matter what sport it is,
and he used to do wide world ofsports where they go do log
rolling, you know, and, and it'snot exactly, um, a mainstream
sport.
(01:00:57):
Um, and he'd say, you know, whatwe're calling today is the world
championships.
It's the world series to theseathletes who are out there
competing at this.
And he was right.
It stuck with me.
And so I, I've, I've learnedthat I get excited no matter
what the competition is, nomatter what the sport is, to
(01:01:20):
watch great athletes compete.
Um, and that, you know, alsothere's some perspective having,
having done it for awhile, that,um, you celebrate the
competition and the athletes,even when it may be, is not the
greatest competition.
(01:01:40):
I, I try to be honest with theviewer when it's not a great day
of golf, they're not playingwell or it's not a great, uh,
basketball game or whatever itis.
And I try to be honest andconvey that, but it's still a
celebration of what they'redoing.
And, and I've learned that I, Iappreciate that as much today is
when I started in this businessor when I played college sports
(01:02:03):
and, uh, and it gets me excitedand I, I don't know how many
years I'll do this, but I'mgoing to do it for a while cause
I still, every time that gamestarts, I'm excited.
Dr. Shepp (01:02:16):
Well, I'm very excited to have talked to you
today and maybe this was a bitof a celebration of, of your
career.
It's, it's been 30 plus years sofar in broadcasting.
I hope it continues as long asyou want it to because
regardless of sport, um, youalways, at least for me, um, put
me right there on the sidelinesand make me feel like I'm, I'm
watching it from, from a closeupview.
(01:02:39):
Um, and it's alwaysentertaining.
It's always interesting.
I learned from your broadcasts,which is for someone like me,
um, a, a real, um, uh, part ofwhat really draws me to listen
to the broadcast that you coverbecause I love learning.
Um, and so I I enjoy the factthat I can learn from you and
I've learned from you today aswell.
So thank you so much Terry forjoining me.
Terry Gannon (01:03:01):
Thanks for the kind of things you've said.
I really appreciate it and forthe time and allowing me to pick
your brain a little bit and uh,hopefully we can talk along the
way and when I ever have aquestion in terms of this I can,
I can pick up the phone and callyou so I hope you'll feel free
to.
Dr. Shepp (01:03:14):
Thanks.
Thanks sir.
Thanks Terry.
Speaker 6 (01:03:18):
[inaudible]
Dr. Shepp (01:03:18):
this has been managed the moment with dr Shep.
Speaker 6 (01:03:21):
[inaudible]
Dr. Shepp (01:03:21):
life is a collection of moments.
It's how you manage the momentsthat make the difference.
My thanks again to Terry Gannonfor joining me on today's
episode and thank you forlistening.
You can find more informationabout the manage the moment
podcast in the episode notes forthis broadcast and you can
subscribe to manage the momentpodcast wherever you choose to
listen to podcasts.
(01:03:42):
You can find us also on socialmedia and you can find me on
Twitter at dr Shep.
Thanks so much for taking thetime to listen to these moments
with us.
Until next time,
Speaker 6 (01:04:00):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
on our next episode, we will be chatting with Michi
Brusco, X games, gold medalist.
Those moments, those two, Ithink stick out to me a lot.
And it's funny because neitherof those are external.
It's funny, like I realized thatit's just like decisions that I
made that, I mean, I guessunless it's a traumatic
experience, that's going to bewhat transformations kind of
(01:04:28):
are.
Yeah.
And I'm sure you're gonna reallyenjoy what he has to say.
Until next time.
Thanks for tuning in to manage the moment
conversations in performancepsychology.
I'm Dr.
Sari Shepphird.
Terry Gannon (00:17):
I want to connect with the audience and and make
this two hours of coverage onthis basketball game I'm doing
or whatever it is, as enjoyableas possible.
And you do that by making themwant to spend the time with you.
And that's kind of the lastthought I have before I go on
the air, is make that person outthere enjoy the next two hours.
(00:43):
However, I can do that.
Dr. Shepp (00:46):
Terry Gannon knows how to make a broadcast
entertaining, but he also knowshow to close out a championship
game as an all American.
You'll recognize Terry as avoice from NBC Sports and The
Golf Channel, but you'llprobably have heard him call
everything from NBA basketballto figure skating to horse
racing, to Supercross world cupsoccer and even the closing
ceremony of the Olympic games.
(01:08):
Terry Gannon knows a great dealabout managing high pressure
moments and he shares hisexperience with us on today's
episode and I think you'rereally going to enjoy listening
to what he has to say.
Hi Terry.
Thanks so much for joining metoday for this conversation.
Terry Gannon (01:22):
Sari.
I'm really looking forward toit.
Good to be with you.
Dr. Shepp (01:25):
Thanks.
I'm looking forward to it aswell.
I have a short list ofbroadcasters that I admire the
most in terms of style andyou're on the short list.
Um, but also I, I absolutely, Ialso appreciate what you have to
say because you talk a lot moreabout the mental game than
perhaps most other broadcasters.
Uh, and I wonder if that'sbecause of your experience as an
(01:45):
athlete.
Terry Gannon (01:47):
I think it probably is.
Um, I, I'm fascinated by it.
I mean, these are all, when you,when you cover, whether it's the
women's British open or the, thethe open championship or you're
doing Simone Biles, you know, atthe U S gymnastics championships
or the NBA or college basketballteamin the greatest athletes in
the world.
(02:07):
What separates them?
They're all great, you know, Imean, they've made it to the
highest level and oftentimeswhat separates them is the
mental part of the game.
And having played basketball and, and been a part of a national
championship team and played fora guy Jim Valvano who was just a
master at motivating teams.
(02:28):
Um, the mental side of it reallyis something that I think is as
important or more important thananything.
And I think it comes from beinga player and having been through
it and having had their prepareand believe in yourself and get
to that point where you believeyou can get it done as a player.
And I kind of think that way asa broadcaster.
Now when I watch these athletes.
Dr. Shepp (02:51):
Well, I want to talk to you a little bit about your
experience, both as an athleteand as a broadcast or, but when
we were preparing for theconversation today, you
mentioned you had read a sportspsychology book back in the day
when applied sports psychologyreally came into its modern form
, um, a book called psychocybernetics by Maxwell Maltz.
Yeah.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou remember from that book and
(03:13):
why it stuck out to you.
Terry Gannon (03:15):
I was in high school and a basketball player,
a baseball player.
Eventually, um, went and playedan NC state, but somebody
recommended that book to me andI read it and it just totally, I
connected with it.
It was something that I went, Ohmy gosh, this, this is something
that I actually can help me.
(03:36):
And as you know, I mean, I thinkit was written in 1960 so this
was the, the 80s when I read it.
Um, and I, I started to apply it, uh, the, the thought of
visualization and trying tovisualize in the most concrete
way, really putting yourself ina position of what it's going to
(03:57):
feel like on the court the nextday.
Um, the sounds, the smells everylittle bit.
Not just trying to visualizeyourself making jump shots, but
literally down to the sensoryaspect of it and getting as
relaxed as you can, uh, beforeyou go to sleep every night.
I would do it every night inhigh school.
(04:18):
And then in college, as anathlete, as I fell asleep, I try
to visualize in the most relaxedstate that I could because your,
your mind on some level doesn'trecognize the difference between
a real and imagined experiencewhen, for example, you wake up
in a cold sweat, having had anightmare.
It feels so real and, and thenmade sense to me and I, so I
(04:41):
started to practice it and Ijust did it throughout my career
as an athlete and I still do itas a broadcaster.
Dr. Shepp (04:48):
I was going to ask you, do you imagine yourself in
the different situations thatyou have when you're
broadcasting?
Terry Gannon (04:52):
Yeah, I do.
Um, you know, I can't say I doit as much now.
Um, I'm getting up there.
I've been around for a while.
Um, but certainly early on in mycareer as a broadcaster, I, uh,
I was off.
I, I was, I had such goodfortune to be in a situation
where I was at at the time atABC sports and they would come
(05:16):
to me and say, Hey, we need youto go do figure skating next
week in Tokyo.
And I'd say, okay, I've neverdone figure skating.
I know who Peggy Fleming is.
And that's about the extent ofmy knowledge.
Oh, you'll be fine.
So that's, there's that briefmoment where you go, Oh my God,
I can't do this.
This is going to be a disaster.
Or you say, Hey, somebody's gotto do it.
(05:39):
And that, that attitude, I mustsay was instilled in me from Jim
Valvano at NC state.
He was just, he believed thatsomebody has to do with why not
you.
And it was that attitude, whichallowed me to say yes, but then
you had to figure out how to doit.
And what I would do.
And the same thing with collegefootball.
(06:01):
On a Tuesday, uh, the executiveproducer of ABC called me up and
said, Hey, this Saturday I needyou to do play by play on North
Carolina and Georgia tech.
And the network.
And I said, well, it's notbasketball season.
No, no football.
Um, Oh, okay.
So in four days I need to figureout how to be a football play by
play guy.
And, and so it was, you do a lotof things to prepare, but then I
(06:25):
would visualize and I, and Iwould, um, spend that time
putting myself in that position.
So I still do it today, maybenot as much, but I try to, um,
capture what it's going to belike the next day on the air,
what we're going to be covering.
So that I've been through it inmy mind already once when it
(06:46):
actually takes place.
Dr. Shepp (06:47):
It's great that you recognize the benefit of that
mental rehearsal.
And now we know throughtechnology over the decades
since that book was written fromFMRI studies, that the brain
really does, um, recognize thestimulus of mental imagery in
much the same way as, as liveaction.
So, so what you experienced andwhat you felt was true has been,
(07:08):
has been proven truth throughscience.
Um, but when you think aboutpreparing for sports that you
have not called before you, yougo online, you research the, the
sport, you get a little bitabout the terminology, but then
yet there's still that sense ofperformance pressure I would
imagine because you have to getit right.
Terry Gannon (07:26):
You're right.
Uh, and that is exactly what youdo.
Um, when I started doinggymnastics, uh, the first thing
you do is you go online and youwatch tape, uh, of previous
events and you figure out the,the, the, the wording, the
nomenclature, how, how peoplecover it, the pacing of it.
And you get that in your brain.
(07:47):
Then you start to do yourresearch on the current stars
and athletes, the ones that camebefore the history of it.
And you take all that in, butthen you've got to put yourself
in that position.
And no matter what sport you'redoing, you're covering.
The one thing I try to remindmyself, and this is something I
do before I go on the air everytime, is that what I want to do
(08:10):
is I want to connect with theaudience and and make this two
hours of coverage on thisbasketball game I'm doing or
whatever it is, as enjoyable aspossible, and you do that by
making them want to spend thetime with you.
In the end, you are stillcovering sports.
It's entertainment, it's notlife or death, and that's kind
(08:34):
of the last thought I havebefore I go on the air is make
that person out there enjoy thenext two hours.
However I can do that.
And oftentimes that's byconnecting to the broadcast
partners that you're with andand making it conversational,
engaging them, picking theirbrains.
Because oftentimes it's, I lookat it as like last weekend we're
(09:00):
covering the gymnasticschampionships.
It's nasty.
Luke and Tim dad getting me,they are the experts.
They know more than 95% of theaudience or 99% of the audience
and they've been there and donethat.
I want to engage as three peoplewatching this event in a
conversation as if we're justtalking about it and we're
(09:21):
excited about it.
And because of their knowledge,the viewer is going to learn as
well and enjoy it more.
Um, and I think that's the sameas for an athlete to when I was
an athlete, the last thing Ithought about was making this a
celebration of basketball.
I'm gonna go out there and havefun, um, and, and do what I've
(09:43):
always done.
Once you know, you can do it.
Like once you get a certainlevel where, okay, I can, I can
do this, then that last bit isjust saying let's let it all
happen.
Let's not force anything, let itcome to us.
Dr. Shepp (09:59):
And that's what stands out to me about you as a
broadcaster is that you are morein the moment than many
broadcasters that I watch orlisten to.
And I know that you prepare, youclearly do, but you also allow
that preparation seemingly togive you more of a sense of
freedom.
Would you say that's true.
Terry Gannon (10:16):
I really thank you for saying that.
I'm going and you picking up onthat.
I appreciate that means a lot tome because I tried it.
That is exactly what I try todo.
It is the last unscriptedtelevision.
I mean, yes, reality shows, butlet's be honest, they're
scripted to some degree.
Sports is not scripted.
You do not know what's going tohappen.
(10:37):
Even in a sport like figureskating or gymnastics where you
have a routine and there's aplan routine.
But the athletes gotta adjust aswell on the fly.
If they, if they don't do thistriple later on, they've got to
add it.
But maybe with a combination andthey're constantly adjusting.
And as a broadcaster, that'swhat I want to convey.
(10:58):
The, the aspect of being in themoment.
So like at the end of an event,when it comes down to the
defining moment at the end of agame or a golf tournament, I
don't ever prepare a line likethat that, okay, I'm gonna say
this as if this person wins thegolf tournament.
(11:18):
I'm gonna say this, I, I let ithit me when we're on the air.
I'll give you an example.
A couple of weeks ago, we had aHanako Shaboo no, who was a
young teenager playing in ourfirst major championship in the
women's British open.
And they call her the smilingCinderella, uh, in Japan.
(11:38):
And she has, she's, she smilesand laughs her way around 72
holes for four days around thegolf course.
And she's waving like she's inthe Rose parade the whole time
left and right to all the, thecrowd.
And, and when she wanted it, shemade this incredible putt to win
it.
And I said something to theeffect of the, the glass slipper
(11:59):
fit.
Well, it just hit me becausewhen we won the national
championship in 1983, our radioannouncer, cause we were the
Cinderella story.
That's what he said.
But, but it hit me in themoment.
Oh my God, it applies here.
Boom.
And, um, hopefully, uh, that itcame across as real and in the
moment and off the cuff does.
It was, but I, I'd much rather,even if I don't come up with the
(12:23):
greatest line, I'd much ratherbe in the moment than have
scripted that.
Dr. Shepp (12:28):
And that makes for good broadcasting.
I, and I think that thatexperience broadcasters try to
allow that freedom to occur.
For example, the, the line inthe miracle on ice.
I mean who, who can forget that?
And that was an unscriptedmoment, but, but I think, um,
you're living out the principlesthat you first read about way
back in the 80s becausePsycho-Cybernetics does talk
(12:49):
about that.
Um, maximum Walt says that youshould just focus on doing one
thing at a time and that, that,um, you should live in the
present moment and release allthought about outcome of your
creative activity.
And it sounds like you reallytried to do that.
Terry Gannon (13:02):
Yeah, I do.
And, um, that is, I guess whereI first kind of learned it and
thought about it.
Um, when I went from high schoolto the ACC, it was kind of a
golden age in, in the ACC, incollege basketball.
I mean, all, all of a suddenyou, you, you're on the floor
and you find yourself guardingMichael Jordan and it occurs to
(13:24):
you, I can't guard MichaelJordan and, and, and then you're
playing against Sam Perkins andJames worthy and Ralph Samson
and the logical part of yourbrain says, you know, I'm good
but I'm not as good as theseguys, but what you, what you do
or what I did at least is Isaid, look, just play
(13:48):
basketball.
And I realized it's, it'sbasketball, it's what I've done
all my life.
Just go play and do the thingsyou, you know how to do.
Um, and then you get to a pointwhere you believe, Hey, I can do
this.
I, I can hang.
Um, but it is about letting ithappen and being in the moment
(14:12):
too.
Uh, because even thevisualization the night before
or the day of or what, wheneveryou're doing that, um, it's kind
of, that's kind of unscripted toeverything.
You want to be positive, but youlet that happen to you don't
script it per se,
Dr. Shepp (14:29):
and you're using mental imagery to help calm
yourself as well.
I would imagine just to try toreduce the fear and the worry
and just execute the skill thatyou, you know, that you have
when, when you were justspeaking, um, just now it
sounded like that's where youput your mind is on the skill
that you know, you have and whatyou control about what you bring
(14:49):
to the situation, rather thingsthat you can't control.
Terry Gannon (14:52):
Yeah, I, yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, you know, and, and whatwe're talking about has gotten
so big in athletics, but I covera lot of golf and it's, it's
gotten huge in golf whereeverybody's got a sports
psychiatrist or psychologistworking with them, um, to do
(15:12):
just that, to, to worry aboutthe process.
And we get, sometimes it getstrite and it sounds cliche when
an athlete says that in aninterview, well, I'm just taking
it one step at a time and I'mgoing one shot by one shot.
But it is psychologically atleast about that because you,
you can't control the outcome.
(15:35):
You can control the process andbeing in that moment fully to
pull off the best shot that youcan pull off at that time or
playing college basketballagainst Michael Jordan.
If you think about the outcomewhile you're going to
immediately go to, yeah, he'sthe greatest player of all time.
This is not good.
Um, you, you, you ha, you haveto control what you can control
(15:59):
and get open for that jump shotand, and take it just like
you're taking it against anybodyelse or on the golf course.
You know that that bunker shot,that fairway bunker shot from
180 yards over water.
You can't think about theoutcome.
You gotta think about theprocess in order to pull that
off.
Um, and we've gotten you, youknow, much more than I and I,
(16:20):
I'd love to pick your brainabout where we've come with that
since the days of psychocybernetics and Maxwell moles.
But I do think watching thegreatest athletes in the world,
all of those principles stillapply that were laid down back
then.
Dr. Shepp (16:34):
Absolutely.
And of course I would besomebody who would a hundred
percent agree with you.
Um, and, and we have reallyadvanced the field quite a lot,
especially with applied researchand with the technology that we
use.
Um, but, but a lot of it stillcomes down to the same
principles you just discussed,which is being in the moment,
uh, executing what's in front ofyou, staying, staying there in
(16:54):
that process.
And, uh, it's more difficult todo sometimes than other times,
but it's, it's never, um, it's,it's never lessened in its
importance.
You really have to focus yourmind on the things that you can
control and stay with thatprocess.
So building the process for eachathlete is gonna look different.
Um, but it's important acrossthe board regardless of sport,
(17:16):
regardless of whether it's ateam sport, individual sport, um
, the mental side of the game isso important
Terry Gannon (17:22):
and you know what the, there are also I played
with and now I have coveredathletes who just don't seem to
get the situation they're in andhow much pressure they should
feel like it's, it's just anatural thing for some athletes.
(17:43):
They have such both eitherbelief in themself or a single
minded focus where it doesn'teven hit them that they're
supposed to feel pressure inthis moment.
And if I Marvel at that and thenthere are other athletes who
absolutely get every aspect ofthat and work hard, taking
(18:03):
themself to a place wherethey're in the moment.
Dr. Shepp (18:07):
Yeah.
And it is going to be differentfor every athlete because
sometimes it's really hard workto stay in the moment and you
really have to work the processhard and you have to trust the
process and respected andembrace it.
But you really have to work ithard.
And for other athletes therethey're able to narrow their
attention and their focus totheir skill and to that moment
(18:29):
with the seeming ease.
And so it does vary person toperson.
Um, I'm glad you point that outbut, but, but I would say that
seems like what you experiencewhen you're broadcasting is you
don't, you don't seem to, I'mnot sure about your experience,
but you don't seem to notice thepressure of the situation.
I mean you've, you've called theRose parade, motocross college
(18:50):
basketball and football, worldcup soccer, ski jumping, the
Indy 500 rugby cycling, w NBAtour de France, Belmont stakes.
You worked on the wide world ofsports with Jim McKay.
Of course, folks today know youas a regular with Judy Rankin
calling the LPGA and then thePGA alongside certain[inaudible]
often times, but you also calledthe closing ceremonies of the
(19:12):
Olympic games.
And to me you seemed no morenervous in that situation than
in any other, um, and seemed tojust rely on the, the
preparation and the skill thatyou bring to any situation.
Terry Gannon (19:26):
Thank you for running down the bio too.
I appreciate that I'm worn out.
Now listen to go there.
Um, yeah, you know, when I'm,when I'm nervous, service are,
are the days leading up whenit's something that I haven't
done before.
If it's the closing ceremony atthe Olympics because it's such a
different animal or back in theday you do the Indianapolis 500
(19:52):
for the first time and in thedays leading up, you're, you're
trying to learn as much as youcan and, and get it all down.
Well, I knock on wood, but inthe moments before the
broadcast, somehow a com comesover me and it's, it's like you
(20:13):
switch into a mode that I'vedone this a million times,
whatever sport it is or whateverI'm covering.
I got this and I, I don't fullyunderstand where that comes
from.
And it's also the time where Iget most excited about going on
(20:33):
the air.
It's, I, I just get excited whenthe producer's counting down 10,
nine, eight and until that redlight goes on, um, I, I think
it's a sense if I could put myfinger on it.
It's a sense of competition.
I just love competition.
(20:55):
People competing, especially atthe highest level, but maybe
even not at the highest level.
I mean, if you're calling a ahigh school game that, that,
that moment, yeah, before thegame starts, the anticipation
and I just, I just get excited.
I don't get nervous.
Um,
Dr. Shepp (21:10):
you thrive on that intensity.
Terry Gannon (21:12):
Yeah.
And, and it's what really getsme going about my job no matter
what it, it's what makes thatride to the airport or getting
on the rental car bus, callingmy bags all over the place were
worth it is that moment when youactually[inaudible] I go on the
(21:33):
air and you are, it's all aboutthe enfold in front of you and
you don't know how it's going tocome out, what the outcome's
going to be.
Dr. Shepp (21:40):
Well, but you trust yourself enough to be in the
moment, right.
Because it's, it's not thatyou've never made a mistake in
your career, I would imagine,but you trust yourself enough to
know that you'll be able to, toget through it or to recover or
to, to tune back into what'shappening in the moment so that
you can stay with it,
Terry Gannon (21:58):
make a mistake at least every time out.
Um, but that, the other aspectof that too I think is owning up
to it and immediately justsaying, Oh, sorry about that.
Uh, this is the case or that'sthe case.
Ms boat.
Uh, people forgive you.
People I think as, as a viewer,as I watch sports, um, first of
(22:20):
all, um, I'm able to watchsports and not critique the
announcers all the time, thankgoodness because it would drive
me crazy.
I'd never watched.
Um, but the ones that I reallylike are the ones who are just
honest, like you're sitting onthe couch next to them and if
they make a mistake, they justown up to it and correct it
(22:40):
right away.
Um, and I think fans are veryforgiving that way.
I think when you try to cover itup or act like you didn't make
mistake is when they're gonnaactually hold it against you.
Um, but Oh, go ahead.
No, go ahead.
Dr. Shepp (22:52):
I was just gonna say you've also hit on, another key
of the mental side of things isthat you don't judge yourself.
When you spend time judgingyourself, criticizing yourself,
you, you lose focus in, in themoment of, of what you're paying
attention to.
And, and you stay on thatmistake a little bit longer.
Your turnaround time, so tospeak, is, is longer.
So you're not able to get rightback in it.
So the fact that you don't judgeyourself for making a mistake,
(23:16):
instead you just own up to itand move on.
Terry Gannon (23:20):
Yeah.
And if your performance, yeah,and you tell me, I mean, I think
a big part of that is havingbeen an athlete too, because
that's exactly what you have todo when you're on the court or
you're on the field.
I mean, you don't have time todwell on it.
Or if you do, um, you're goingto compound the mistake.
And, and the toughest sports tome are the ones with S.
(23:42):
so Gulf for example, there's solittle time actually in the
activity of playing golf.
This swing, the pot, most of thetime you spend in that four and
a half hours and unfortunatelyit's like five hours plus now
the way rounds are taking, butit almost the entire time it's
(24:03):
in between the activity.
And that's the biggest challengeI think in like for golfers to
let go of that last shot thatlasts bad shot or that last
bogey on the previous hole.
Um, but it's, it's maybe thebiggest thing in terms of
success on the golf course, butI think it applies to all sports
(24:23):
and I, and having played, youknow, you, you turn the ball
over leading to a dunk foranother team.
I mean you've got to snap rightback in and forget about that.
And the athletes with the, theleast amount of memory are the
most successful ones that I'veencountered.
Dr. Shepp (24:38):
Right.
Absolutely.
And I think one of the reasonswhy people say that golf is such
a mental game is because thereis more time in between shots.
When you're on the basketballcourt, you don't have time.
You have, you have to turnaround, run the other way.
Um, but in golf you have anumber of minutes between shots
that take somewhere between 30to 45 seconds to, you know, to
(25:00):
execute in total.
Terry Gannon (25:01):
Absolutely.
And, and yeah, basketball's areactive sport.
Most of the time you're outthere reacting in golf.
You're not doing that.
You're, you're literallythinking about either your last
shot or your next shot andhopefully it's mostly your next
shot.
Um, and one of the greatadvances we've had in TV, I
think our, the, the microphonesto be able to pick up
(25:22):
conversations between caddiesand players or between two
players as they're walking up totheir next shot.
And some fans say, Oh, it's kindof boring.
What?
I want to listen to a catty.
I think it's fascinating becauseit, yeah, it totally takes you
into, it's not only coach playerin that conversation, it takes
(25:43):
you into the mindset of thatplayer.
And are they thinking about thatlast shot or are they thinking
about this next putter?
How are they thinking about thisnext spot?
And I often think that the mostsuccessful players are the ones
who, when you pick up thatconversation, um, they're,
they're probably there.
They're talking about thingsother than the next shot until
(26:06):
they get up to the ball and aretaking a look at now you click
in to your situation and whatyou're going to do.
And then you click in to yourpre-shot routine, which again,
that's part of the whole inbasketball as a free throw
shooter for example.
Um, it, I learned this early on,you, you have a routine and as
(26:29):
soon as you're handed the ball,you're not thinking about
anything except what you doevery single time you go to the
free throw line, boom, boom,boom, boom, four bounces, look
bend shoe, whatever your is.
And it's the same in, in golf.
And I think that the best, mostsuccessful golfers are the ones
(26:50):
who are taking their mind awayfrom what's going on and then
they click in when they getthere.
Dr. Shepp (27:03):
You're doing such a great job of describing sports
psychology.
Really.
You are, um, a lot of the keyprinciples that you mentioned
are, are just so true andunchanging depending on the
sport or the generation orwhatever it might be.
It's these, these principlesdon't change.
But in golf, when you have afour or five hour round and then
it's played over maybe fourdays, three or four days,
depending by the, by the timeyou get to the back nine on the
(27:26):
last round, your mind is goingto be exhausted.
If you're thinking about golfthe entire time, yeah, you're
going to lose your ability justto make the best course
decisions or feel like you'restill there, you know, in the
tournament because you're justgoing to be exhausted.
So you're right.
I think players that whenthey're walking in between
(27:47):
holes, they put their mind onsomething else.
Uh, and then when it comes time,when you actually get up to the
ball and you, you see where itlie and you address the ball and
get ready to take your, whatyour best swing on it, um, and
then you switched to having yourmind back in the game.
I think that makes for a goodcombination.
Terry Gannon (28:05):
I think I also over the course of days too,
because if you play a four dayevent, yeah.
Um, you better, once you leavethe golf course that night or
afternoon, you better get awayfrom it and not really think
about it until that next day.
Uh, now if you get to outsomething and you, you gotta
head to the range and work out alittle something in your swing
(28:25):
that you're not feeling fine, godo that, but then leave it and
go out to dinner or go out anddo whatever with your buddies or
, or, and, and it goes back as,as a basketball player.
And if, if people know about JimValvano and maybe watched our 30
for 30, uh, survive in advance,uh, but 1983 in our run to a
championship, he was a coachthat wanted you, we went to the
(28:48):
final four, he wanted us to takein everything about the final
four, take a go to practice with10,000 people there and, and
don't be shielded off.
We're not going to go practicein some little gym with no one
there because he wanted us totake all that in and experience
it.
He wanted us to go out at night.
(29:09):
He, I mean, his joke was yeah,we had bed check last night.
We checked at 10 o'clock.
All the beds were there
Dr. Shepp (29:15):
for their, I remember that.
Terry Gannon (29:16):
Right.
And, and, and for me, I mean Ithink that was a reason we
pulled off a great upset thenbecause, um, we got away from
it.
You weren't sitting there andthinking about there are some
coaches who, you know, you'vegot film session and then you go
and you have a closed practiceand they want you to go right
back to your rooms.
And, and, uh, not be out andabout.
(29:38):
And I think that makes itharder.
I think that puts more pressureon you as an athlete than the
opposite.
Dr. Shepp (29:47):
It does.
Absolutely.
And let, but let's switch alittle bit to your career as a,
as a collegiate basketballplayer because depending on the
generation of the listeners,some may not know that you are
part of something that someconsider one of the greatest
sports seasons, one of thegreatest sports moments in fact
in college basketball history.
And you played for and laterworked as an assistant coach for
(30:08):
the great Jim Valvano and I'msure that it's hard to
encapsulate what you learnedabout the mental game from him.
Um, but maybe you can recallsome of the things that he
discussed on the mental side ofthe, of the game.
Terry Gannon (30:20):
Yeah.
He, he was just the, the mostimpressive person I've ever been
around.
And I miss him every day and Imiss being able to call him up
and say, Hey, did you see mybroadcasts yesterday?
What'd you think?
And picking his brain.
He was one of those people whojust first of all had an
enthusiasm for life, wasexcited, every S and I was close
(30:44):
to him.
I not only worked for him as anassistant coach, but that was
very close to him, uh, until hepassed and still close with his
family.
And we spend a lot of time withhim.
And he would, he was excitedabout every minute that he was
alive and he was intoeverything.
He was a hiss, um, English majorin college.
And in halftime talk, she wouldquote great poets and authors
(31:07):
and he was into business.
He had a number of sidebusinesses.
He was into sculpture and inart.
And he started a business inthat way.
And, um, he was the kind of guywho made you believe you could
do anything and not with a rahrah Newt Rockne talk, but
because he believed in you, hegot that across and you didn't
(31:31):
want to let him down and he madeyou feel like you could, you
could accomplish anything and,and, um, and take on any task.
I mean really the entire reasonthat I kept saying yes, every
time an opportunity came my wayand broadcasting to do something
that I had never thought aboutwas because he instilled the
(31:55):
idea of, of why not and why notme.
Um, and he did that in thelocker room before the
championship game.
We were taking on Houston whohad two future hall of fame
players and he came Olajuwon andClyde Drexler and we were a
major underdog.
I think my dad even laid thepoints and took Houston that
(32:16):
night.
We weren't supposed to even staywith them.
And, and he came in the lockerroom and I, we tell this story
count into 30 for 30, sorry ifpeople saw it in him, boring
them.
But we had, you know, you havethe entire scattering report up
on the board and everything thatyou're going to do against this
defense and that defense andhere's how we're going to guard
them.
And they're, and, and he, and hetook an eraser and he erased
(32:39):
entire thing and he threw itaway.
And he said, if you think we'regoing to hold the ball and slow
it down in front of 50 millionpeople, you're crazy.
We're going to go out there andkick their ass.
And everybody just jumped up.
And that was the entire pregamespeech.
And it was perfect because whatwe needed to hear from him was
(33:00):
that he believed in us and hebelieved we were going to win.
And we were gonna find a way todo it somehow get us to two
minutes left with a chance towin the game and we're going to
find a way again, being in thatmoment and letting it happen.
And um, he, he, he slept aboutfour hours a night.
He was on all the time.
(33:20):
If you're in the same room withhim, you had to bring your a
game conversation-wise or, or hewould just take you down.
Um, he was just to be around.
He was, he motivated you everysingle second.
And, and I always left afterspending time with him, more
excited and motivated aboutlife.
And it's led to me acceptingopportunities that I would've
(33:42):
never accepted.
Dr. Shepp (33:44):
Yeah.
You mentioned that he would sayto you, don't limit yourself,
keep your mind and your eyeswide open for any opportunity
and it, and it seems like that'sexactly what you've done.
Terry Gannon (33:52):
That's how we lived.
And, and, um, you know, I, I, Iwould have never believed in
myself to the extent that I, Ihave without having had a coach
like him.
And he was said, you talkedabout the, uh, psychological
aspect of sports and the mindsetof athletes.
He wasn't, um, educated thatway.
(34:15):
He, he just knew what button topush and that buttons different
for everyone on the team.
That's the other thing.
He didn't treat us all the same.
He treated us based on ourpersonalities and needs as
players and people.
And he had a differentrelationship with every player.
Um, and I think that's importantfor coaches to when they, they,
(34:37):
they coach at the highest levelwith athletes, not the treat.
Everybody the same.
Different players need differentmotivation.
I mean, I know I played withplayers who needed to be
motivated to work hard and Iplay with players who just
needed to be told they were goodenough.
Um, and he believed that theycould get this done or that
(34:59):
done.
And you, it's not all the same.
And I think even when you're anaccomplished athlete at the
highest level, your professionalathlete, um, I think that's true
as well.
Dr. Shepp (35:10):
Well, he did bring out the best in you considering
you led that, uh, led the nationin three point shooting that bet
year three point shootingpercentage.
So some things certainly workedin terms of him being able to
bring out the best in you.
But one thing about yourrelationship with Jim Valvano is
, um, in contrast to your roleas a broadcast or where you seem
to always have something reallyfitting to say, um, about coach
(35:33):
Jimmy Valvano, you said that youdon't talk a lot about him
because you don't feel like youhave the words to really do him
justice and you don't knowexactly how to describe
everything that he was.
Terry Gannon (35:46):
Yeah.
I don't know if you've everknown a person like that.
Um, hopefully you have.
And, and I, if I try to getacross to you even right now,
what he was like, I'll for afall short, I, I mean, I, I'm, I
do my best to, because I thinkI'd like people to know, um, how
(36:06):
extraordinary it was.
And you know, he was, I mean, Iwent to see him a few times when
he was in the hospital at Dukebattling cancer at his worst.
And, um, he, you know, he'd haveto hit the button for
painkillers and fall asleep andhe wouldn't want to, but he
would wake up.
And every moment he's tellingme, all right, here's what we
(36:29):
need to do.
He was setting up the Vfoundation for cancer research,
literally as he's laying in thebed dying and saying, Frank's
going to do this and, andBobby's gonna do this, and
here's what I want you to do.
And he set up Ian, he, heenvisioned and literally set up
the entire V foundation as hewas dying of cancer.
(36:51):
And it's now, you know, over$200million, they built wings on
hospice.
They've saved lives.
It's, it's really one of thoseplaces saved one of his
daughter's life who, who has hadcancer.
So it's, um, he, he was just oneof those guys who you can't
fully capture when you talkabout a couple of weeks ago,
(37:11):
but, right.
Well about a month ago I played,uh, in the SPS golf tournament
with a friend who was a verygood friend of Jim Valvano's and
we spent the entire day talkingabout him because he understood
them and knew him.
And I did.
And you can talk about that.
(37:32):
If I spent the entire day tryingto tell people about him, I
don't think I can.
I think I'd always fall short ofcapturing him.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
[inaudible]
Dr. Shepp (37:46):
I think not having the words to describe somebody
in and of itself is, is anamazing Testament to who
somebody means and what theymean to you.
I mean, and who they were inyour life.
Um, one of the things you seemnot to do is give in to pressure
to say something when nothingneeds to be said, which is not
(38:09):
always easy.
But I, I noticed that in yourapproach to your work is if
there's an intense moment, youlet the moment speak for itself
and I think you're letting acoach fees, career and
personality and, and impactspeak for itself as well.
But, um, I'm drawing parallelsjust in your approach to your
work that sometimes you knowthat not saying something is the
(38:32):
right thing to do.
Terry Gannon (38:33):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Well, here's the thing.
Um, it's when, when there's agreat moment and the crowd goes
nuts and everybody, what am Igoing to say to add to that, to
make it better, right?
I mean, yeah.
Later the temptation is later onto have that piece of tape where
(38:54):
you call, you have this greatcall over a great shot or a
great moment, but in the moment,just take the people there.
Let, let the people watching onTV be there at the golf course
in that moment or in the arenaat that moment and experience
(39:15):
what it's like to be in thecrowd there in person watching
it.
And there's so many times whenyou do just, you should I think,
let it happen and, and, and, andjust let the moment take over.
So hopefully, hopefully I dothat for the most part.
And I appreciate you sayingthat.
Dr. Shepp (39:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
But it really does stand outthere at some broadcasters when
I'm listening to certain sportsthat I'll actually turn down the
sound and I won't, I won'tmention names of course.
Terry Gannon (39:43):
Well, I'm glad I'm not one of them.
Thank you.
Dr. Shepp (39:45):
No, when, when I tune into something you're calling, I
know that I'm going to enjoy itmore and that's the, that's
really my, my true feeling aboutit.
Terry Gannon (39:52):
That's the biggest compliment you could pay me.
So I appreciate that.
And that really is my goal everytime out.
Dr. Shepp (39:59):
Well, I'm, I'm happy to pay you a compliment that,
um, that is meaningful.
Um, one of the lines that Iwrote down, actually I a few
years back, um, when you werecalling the, uh, the free dance
at the U S Olympics, you werewatching the champions perform
in there.
Um, I think it was a shortprogram.
(40:21):
And w you said there theirbrilliance doesn't bring you out
of your seat.
It makes you sit back andcontemplate it.
And I wish of course I had saidthat more fluidly, but, um, when
you said that line, um, Ithought it was true.
It was 100% true.
There's some sports that youwatch and you just want to jump
(40:41):
out of your seat.
You can't sit still.
You have to pace the room ifyou're someone like me.
Um, and there's other timeswhere you watch and you're
simply in awe and you have tojust think about what you just
saw.
And I think that, uh, SimoneBiles triple double at the 2019
USA gymnastics championships isone of those moments where you
(41:04):
just have to sit and take stockof what just happened.
There's nothing else you can do,but just be in awe.
Terry Gannon (41:12):
I was totally in awe in the moment the other
night when she did that, eventhough I knew she was going to
attempt that.
Um, yeah, I, I think she is oneof those at one of those rare
athletes that doesn't justimpress you or make you cheer.
She, she literally makes yourjaw just drop, um, because you
(41:33):
can't believe what she's doing.
And I actually posted somethingon Twitter just because it hit
me.
Uh, having played in collegewith Spud Webb, excuse me, who
is five, six, maybe five, sevenand eventually won the slam dunk
contest in the NBA in 1986.
(41:53):
He, he was the kind of athleteand after practice, every day he
would just put on a dunkingshow.
Just, I mean, he would do thingsand he would sit there.
Everybody on the team would justsit there along the sideline and
watch him, excuse me, and justbe in awe.
And it's the closest thing towhat I saw the other night
(42:15):
happened with Simone Biles.
You, you, I, I want to keepwatching her.
I don't want her to leave themat.
I want her to be on floor theentire time or I'm being the
entire time.
And no disrespect to anybodyelse competing, but she is that
kind of once in a lifetimeathlete who does things that you
don't think should be humanlypossible.
Um, and you just kind of takethat in and hopefully we're in
(42:38):
enough replays for people to,uh, to appreciate it.
But he got, I know he got enoughplay because I came home the
next day, uh, and every, I mean,I, my mail man was talking about
it.
My dentist was talking about it.
Everybody was talking about whatshe had done the night before
Dr. Shepp (42:55):
and she's four foot eight powerhouse.
Terry Gannon (42:57):
I know.
Right?
Incredible.
Dr. Shepp (42:59):
Yeah.
And also Spud Webb.
I, I, um, I remember him too.
I was young at the time, but Iremember just what a powerhouse
he was in the show that he wouldput on my husband as a matter of
fact was in the pit.
Um, really that you won that.
Yeah.
The day that you won thenational championship.
Um, and, and so it, it's funnynow just looking back when I was
(43:20):
watching the, um, the 30 for 30,the survive and advanced that
you, they mentioned earlier,that's an ESPN film, by the way,
those of you who aren't familiarwith 30 for 30, I really
recommend you look it up andwatch it.
It's, it's, um, a great piece.
Uh, but when, when you mentionedwhat year it was and where,
where the, the final four tookplace, I had forgotten that.
And so I asked my husband, isthat the year that you were at
(43:43):
the final four?
And certainly it was prettyfunny.
Terry Gannon (43:46):
That is really cool.
I mean, I mean, yeah, about ahundred million people claim to
have been there that night now.
But I will, but I believe them.
I believe I do have Google.
Dr. Shepp (43:56):
Yeah.
Terry Gannon (43:57):
It's funny that the 30 for 30 actually has been
a great thing.
I, you know, we did that.
Um, and we went back to Raleighand we went to a place that we
used to hang out and they justturned on the cameras and the
microphones and there was, theydidn't say anything like, we
want you to talk about this orthat or whatever.
And we just talked as teammatesfor four hours and uh, they took
(44:20):
it all in and made a grid aspecial out of it.
But it was, we, we get togetheras a team every couple of years
and within five seconds it's,it's like, it was back in the
early eighties where, you know,same guys getting made fun of
for the same things and same,same guys who were leaders back
(44:40):
then.
Our leaders still now.
And, uh, I think one of thereasons and wherever I go cover
and thing that people stop meand tell me that they love that
30 for 30 is, um, it's a bunchof guys who just were very close
and, and we're able to pull offsomething extraordinary.
Dr. Shepp (44:57):
What an amazing experience you had.
Um, and an amazing career youcontinue to have.
And I, I could talk to you allday, but I don't wanna keep you
much longer.
I do have some questions that Iask everyone.
Um, so if it's okay, I'm goingto shift to those and, and get
your answers.
Terry Gannon (45:13):
Sure.
This has been great by the way.
I've really enjoyed it.
Dr. Shepp (45:16):
Oh, I'm glad Terri.
Um, so Terry, what in life areyou still curious about?
Terry Gannon (45:21):
I'm still curious about where life's gonna take
me.
I feel like I'm just startingand I don't, I don't know what
my next journey is.
Um, and I'm open to wherever ittakes me.
Dr. Shepp (45:33):
So you're still heating, um, coach fees words
then?
Apparently.
Terry Gannon (45:36):
Yeah.
And people ask me what, so howlong are you going to do this?
I'm like, I haven't even thoughtabout not doing this.
I want to know what's next,what's on the docket, next one.
Dr. Shepp (45:46):
That's great.
What is more distracting to youas a, as a broadcast or the
praise that you get or thecriticism?
Terry Gannon (45:54):
Ah, well, I'm going to be really honest and
I'd love to say the criticismdoesn't bother me, but we're all
human.
It, you can have 25 goodcomments and then there's one
who said, why did you see thiswhen this happened?
Would it?
And then you rethink it amillion times.
So, uh, anybody who says thatdoesn't bother them, I don't
(46:18):
know if I believe him.
Dr. Shepp (46:20):
And so then I'll just follow up with that really
quickly.
How do you get yourself over it?
Terry Gannon (46:25):
You get on your horse again the next time and
you go do it.
Um, I think that comes frombeing an athlete that what we
talked about.
I think it's, you forget aboutyour last swing or your last
shot that didn't go in or yourlast comment that wasn't on the
Mark.
And thankfully you have anotheropportunity the next week to go
(46:47):
back out and prove yourself.
Dr. Shepp (46:50):
Okay.
As a performer, you obviouslyprepare for every broadcast, um,
yet the unexpected can happen.
What is something unexpectedthat happened to you as a
broadcaster?
Terry Gannon (47:02):
Oh wow.
Well, the unexpected happensevery show.
I mean that's the, that's thebeauty of sports.
You don't know what to expect.
Um, ah, I'd have to give thatsome real thought.
Um, I don't know.
I'll get back to you on, I mean,literally, literally a few weeks
(47:25):
ago at the women's British open,this, this rookie who's never
been in a major championship,everybody just assumed, okay,
over the weekend she's going tofall back up in the final round.
She can't hang with thepressure.
And then when, when she, shemakes a birdie pot from like 20
feet on the green at 18 to winit at the end.
(47:45):
I mean, I think he can kindahear it in my voice how
unexpected it was that sheactually pulled this off.
So that's, that's the beauty ofwhat I do for a living
Dr. Shepp (47:54):
and talk about poise under pressure.
She was amazing.
She just smiled, had fun, seemto not take it so seriously,
which is often a key to successin, in high pressure situations.
Terry Gannon (48:03):
I know.
And somehow was able to keepdoing that.
Uh, yeah.
Did back to your big, uh, bigpicture part of your question
though.
So much of my career as abroadcaster is unexpected to me.
I didn't, first of all expect tobe a broadcaster.
I was going to be a coach.
Oh, that's right.
Your dad was a coach.
(48:24):
My dad was a coach.
That's what I always wanted todo.
I was an assistant coach for JimValvano and the opportunity
presented itself, excuse me, um,to go into broadcasting and I
kinda went in and talked to him.
Long story short, uh, he waslike, yeah, I'll hire you back.
Go take a shot, see what you cando.
And it was, that was hisattitude.
(48:44):
And um, that's how I got intobroadcasting.
And then every step of the way,and I know there's merit to
mapping out your future andhaving goals, but with me, it
was more of a dream than a goal.
Like I didn't say one day I wantto be sitting court side calling
(49:05):
the NBA playoffs or the finalfour or something.
I said, this is a great journey.
Let me see where it takes me.
And I was open to acceptingopportunities because of that in
areas that I never would have,except if I mapped it out, I
would've never said yes, I'll godo that figure skating show next
(49:28):
week.
Yes, I'll do play by play thisweekend on college football.
Yes.
I'll go do mountain biking forwide will the sport.
Yes, I'll do ski flying inSlovenia next week.
And so however that wasinstilled and I think a big part
of it was Jim Valvano.
Um, I feel fortunate for thatand the whole thing is
unexpected and that's why I kindof say, and I'm being truthful,
(49:50):
I don't know where the journeytakes me next.
Dr. Shepp (49:52):
That's cool.
And even your championship ofcourse was unexpected.
It was unexpected by everyonewho was watching, including all
the broadcasters who werecalling the the tournament back
then.
Um, but, but each time youadvance, your team got a little
bit more confident than if youcould just be in the game with
three minutes left, you'd find away to win.
But when you started off, Iimagine just the fact that you
(50:16):
are advancing along that journeywas something you, you didn't
really exist.
Terry Gannon (50:20):
No way.
I mean, yeah, it, we, we had to,in our minds, we had an injured
player, Derek Whittenburg, oneof our players through the
middle of the season.
He unexpectedly came back, wasable to play coming back from a
broken foot right at the end ofthe season.
But in our minds, we had to winthe ACC tournament just to even
get into the NCAA tournament,which included beating North
(50:42):
Carolina with Michael Jordan andSam Perkins on Saturday.
And then Ralph Sampson, who atthe time was even more of a
powerhouse than Michael Jordanand college basketball.
We had to beat Virginia onSunday and we did it.
And what happened along the way,we won these games in such
dramatic fashion coming frombehind that we would get in the
(51:03):
locker room after the game andkind of look at each other and
raise an eyebrow and smile andgo, how did we do that?
And, and you, what happenedalong the way is this belief
that I don't know what, who dowe have to play next?
The Celtics.
Okay, we'll find a way to win.
We don't know how, but if we'reclose to the end, we're going to
(51:23):
find a way to win.
It's just a belief that grewbecause we did come back and win
every game.
Dr. Shepp (51:29):
Yeah, he came from behind and um, yeah, absolutely.
But, but how much did that justreinforce the, your confidence
that you could do it if youcould perform as a team, if you
could, um, communicate with eachother effectively and put all
the things that you hadpracticed into play when it
mattered.
I'm, I'm sure your confidencejust built on, on that
(51:50):
experience.
Terry Gannon (51:51):
Look, I'm not saying, I mean it could have
ended very differently and wecould have been blown out by
Houston and the championshipgame and that was a very real
possibility.
But in our minds, once JimValvano said, you're going to
win, this is how you're going todo it.
And we're going to go out thereand we're going to be national
champions in front of 50 millionpeople.
(52:12):
In our minds it was a done deal.
We were going to win.
We didn't know how we, we willfigure it out, but we're going
to win this game.
And that's, I, I, you know, you,whether you're any gets back to
what we've been talking aboutthe whole time, but it's not
necessarily tricking your mindinto thinking something.
But, but it is finding a way toput that belief in your head and
(52:38):
it becomes a self fulfillingprophecy or it's got more of a
chance to do that.
Dr. Shepp (52:44):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And even if it comes down to alaw of in a dunk in the last
know a few seconds of a game,um, you've done everything you
can to, to prepare for theunexpected and, um, you just
trust yourself to, to put thatinto play.
And, and then, um, show up inthe moment.
Terry Gannon (53:01):
And I love how you call it a lob in a dunk.
You're buying Derek Whittenburgstory all these years that it
wasn't a shot and an air ball.
But yeah, I mean and, and who,how I'd want it if people do
know the story because Houstonwas famous for their dunks.
There were five slamma Jammathat's the high flying dunks and
(53:24):
we won the national championshipon the final play against them
on what?
On a dunk.
Amazing irony.
Dr. Shepp (53:33):
That's how I know my husband was really there cause
he's not even a basketball fan,but he described the last year.
Terry Gannon (53:38):
All right, that's true.
Dr. Shepp (53:41):
So back to these, uh, these questions.
What is one tweet or commentregardless of the means with,
with, with which it came to you,what does one tweet or comment
that stands out to you becauseof its impact?
Good, bad, or for whateverreason?
Terry Gannon (53:59):
These are hard.
These, I know, these are reallyhard.
Um, I don't know.
I tend to think of great calls.
I don't think in terms of tweetsor comments, you know, I mean,
so like Jack Buck, his call withthe, with Kirk Gibson's home run
(54:21):
stands out.
I don't believe what I just saw.
And is that poetry is that likeif you scripted and you wouldn't
make it as simple as that, butit's brilliant because it's so
simple and in the moment and itdescribes what everyone at home
is thinking.
Okay.
Dr. Shepp (54:40):
Yeah.
Like Jack Nicholas on, um, whatwas it, 16 at the 1986 masters?
Yes, sir.
Terry Gannon (54:46):
Yes.
Verne Lundquist.
Yes, sir.
Uh, or tigers chip in your life.
Have you ever seen anything likethat?
Um, it describes exactly whateverybody's thinking and that's
what you're hopefully going foras a broadcaster.
Dr. Shepp (55:02):
Terry, how do you move on from failure?
Um, and I'm not just talkingabout a mistake that you make,
you know, and, and cause we'vealready discussed that, but if
you, if you feel like you'veever had an experience, you walk
away from that registers as afailure.
How do you move on from that?
Terry Gannon (55:17):
Isn't that the great question of competition or
of success?
And it is all about that.
I try, it's not easy no matterhow many years you've been doing
what you're doing.
But I try to own up to it.
Um, I try to analyze it, I tryto face it and thankfully have
(55:40):
another shot and I try to vieweverything in, in light of what
sports kind of teaches you,which for me, the biggest thing
it teaches you is just that isthere's always another day.
Get back at it, learn from whatyou just did or failed to do and
come back stronger the nexttime.
(56:01):
Sounds trite, sounds oldfashioned, but I think it does
all come down to that.
And, you know, it's what gets mewhen I would go to my, my kids
are now college age, but wouldgo to their games.
Um, parents who don't quite seemto get that, that, that their
kid's not going to be a centerfielder for the Dodgers.
(56:21):
I mean, if it happens,beautiful, lovely.
And it's a, you know, one in amillion shot and guess what?
It's going to happen because ofthe kid, not the parent most of
the times.
Yeah.
Um, but those, those lessons,even as a kid that these, that
they're learning.
And for me that's the biggestone.
Make a mistake, get back out anddo it better next time.
Dr. Shepp (56:46):
It's the difference between a successful career and
a stalled career often.
Terry Gannon (56:50):
Yeah.
Cause I think you can, you cancreate that.
Again, it's a, it becomes a selffulfilling prophecy.
And what's in your mindoftentimes either tends to
happen or at least you allowthere to be a chance for
success.
You know, the, the old thing, uh, belief, hard work, enthusiasm,
it doesn't guarantee success.
It doesn't guarantee you'regonna win that.
(57:12):
But if you don't have thosethings, I can guarantee you, you
won't,
Dr. Shepp (57:17):
it kinda comes down to getting out of your own way.
So
Terry Gannon (57:20):
yeah.
Abs.
Absolutely.
Um, that's, and that's one ofthe hardest things to do,
Dr. Shepp (57:25):
right?
Absolutely.
Um, this is the last hard one.
Um, so have you ever had whatyou would say was a
transformative moment in yourwork and if so, what was it?
Terry Gannon (57:40):
Yeah, um, I mean there, there have been many,
cause they've had reallyopportunities to work with the
greatest and Jim McKay youmentioned, but I remember mayor
Brent Musburger[inaudible] washosting, we worked with Brent
and, and he was the overall hostof the, the world figure skating
championships.
And I was the play by play alongwith Peggy Fleming and Dick
(58:01):
button.
And there are these names, uh,Yulaina bears, Naya, Anton
secret leads say, all right, whowere Russian pair, who
eventually won the Olympic goldmedal?
But it's hard to say it,especially if you're not used to
calling figure skating.
And, and in the rehearsals, youknow, he, he was, he was getting
there, but he wasn't quite, and,and our producer kept saying,
(58:24):
Brent, you've got to get these,these names right.
Uh, when we go on the air,because figure skating fans know
them.
Don't worry about a kid.
I got it.
And so eventually we go on theair and they show the standings
and Brent says there they are atthe top, the Russians in second
(58:45):
place, Smith and Johnson fromthe United States.
And it hit me.
That's really it.
You go with what you know andyou stay away from what you
don't.
And, and really, I mean, I, it'suh, it's funny, but I learned
from that.
I was like, Oh, that'sbrilliant.
I love that.
Dr. Shepp (59:02):
Well, it avoids the, the alternative, which is fans
yelling at the TV or sending outtweets about how a broadcast or
butchered somebodies name ofplayer that they love.
So, um, but, but you pronouncedthe Ty golf players last names
pretty well, I must say.
So to
Terry Gannon (59:19):
dump us, we'll want to pour practice, say a
quickly with conviction.
I do.
I do remember I did the littleleague world series and uh, one
time it was Taiwan who was, um,in the championship game and you
know, you have to go around andset the lineup and, and I did
Pam bam, bam, bam with all thenames and this and that.
(59:41):
And after the broadcast, I wouldalways talk to my dad when, when
he was alive and eats it.
Boy, you are so good with thosenames.
You see, I mean, you kneweverything.
I said, dad, how would you knowif I made a mistake?
Seriously?
And Eddie said, well, that'strue.
I really wouldn't.
I really wouldn't know.
But you set them quickly withconviction.
I said, yeah, that's all I wastrying to do.
Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
Perfect.
Dr. Shepp (01:00:06):
Well, in 30 seconds or less, just to sum up, Terry,
what have you learned aboutyourself from your work as a
broadcaster?
Terry Gannon (01:00:13):
You are really getting inside my mind now.
You're really trending.
Um, I've learned that I canaccept different challenges and
be willing to do the work to tryto convey the competition as
(01:00:36):
best I can, no matter what sportit is.
I, I, I, I've learned throughthe years, and this was
something Jim[inaudible] used tosay, no matter what sport it is,
and he used to do wide world ofsports where they go do log
rolling, you know, and, and it'snot exactly, um, a mainstream
sport.
(01:00:57):
Um, and he'd say, you know, whatwe're calling today is the world
championships.
It's the world series to theseathletes who are out there
competing at this.
And he was right.
It stuck with me.
And so I, I've, I've learnedthat I get excited no matter
what the competition is, nomatter what the sport is, to
(01:01:20):
watch great athletes compete.
Um, and that, you know, alsothere's some perspective having,
having done it for awhile, that,um, you celebrate the
competition and the athletes,even when it may be, is not the
greatest competition.
(01:01:40):
I, I try to be honest with theviewer when it's not a great day
of golf, they're not playingwell or it's not a great, uh,
basketball game or whatever itis.
And I try to be honest andconvey that, but it's still a
celebration of what they'redoing.
And, and I've learned that I, Iappreciate that as much today is
when I started in this businessor when I played college sports
(01:02:03):
and, uh, and it gets me excitedand I, I don't know how many
years I'll do this, but I'mgoing to do it for a while cause
I still, every time that gamestarts, I'm excited.
Dr. Shepp (01:02:16):
Well, I'm very excited to have talked to you
today and maybe this was a bitof a celebration of, of your
career.
It's, it's been 30 plus years sofar in broadcasting.
I hope it continues as long asyou want it to because
regardless of sport, um, youalways, at least for me, um, put
me right there on the sidelinesand make me feel like I'm, I'm
watching it from, from a closeupview.
(01:02:39):
Um, and it's alwaysentertaining.
It's always interesting.
I learned from your broadcasts,which is for someone like me,
um, a, a real, um, uh, part ofwhat really draws me to listen
to the broadcast that you coverbecause I love learning.
Um, and so I I enjoy the factthat I can learn from you and
I've learned from you today aswell.
So thank you so much Terry forjoining me.
Terry Gannon (01:03:01):
Thanks for the kind of things you've said.
I really appreciate it and forthe time and allowing me to pick
your brain a little bit and uh,hopefully we can talk along the
way and when I ever have aquestion in terms of this I can,
I can pick up the phone and callyou so I hope you'll feel free
to.
Dr. Shepp (01:03:14):
Thanks.
Thanks sir.
Thanks Terry.
Speaker 6 (01:03:18):
[inaudible]
Dr. Shepp (01:03:18):
this has been managed the moment with dr Shep.
Speaker 6 (01:03:21):
[inaudible]
Dr. Shepp (01:03:21):
life is a collection of moments.
It's how you manage the momentsthat make the difference.
My thanks again to Terry Gannonfor joining me on today's
episode and thank you forlistening.
You can find more informationabout the manage the moment
podcast in the episode notes forthis broadcast and you can
subscribe to manage the momentpodcast wherever you choose to
listen to podcasts.
(01:03:42):
You can find us also on socialmedia and you can find me on
Twitter at dr Shep.
Thanks so much for taking thetime to listen to these moments
with us.
Until next time,
Speaker 6 (01:04:00):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
on our next episode, we will be chatting with Michi
Brusco, X games, gold medalist.
Those moments, those two, Ithink stick out to me a lot.
And it's funny because neitherof those are external.
It's funny, like I realized thatit's just like decisions that I
made that, I mean, I guessunless it's a traumatic
experience, that's going to bewhat transformations kind of
(01:04:28):
are.
Yeah.
And I'm sure you're gonna reallyenjoy what he has to say.
Until next time.
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