June 25, 2025 • 55 mins
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The Mood Dudes are hosted by Immanuel, James, Joey, three Mane Up Memphis™ clinicians bringing you behavioral health knowledge through the lens of your favorite superhero hood. Get ready for action-packed adventures served with a side of humor, pop culture references, and a dash of edge.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Main Up Memphis podcast, where we
celebrate the grit, heart andhope that make the 901 shine.
Each week, we sit down withchangemakers, youth and families
to talk real mental health wins, money moves and life skills
breakthroughs All the tools weuse at Main Up Memphis to uplift
(00:22):
, equip and empower people tobuild stronger, more resilient
lives.
Whether you're 14 or 40, aparent, mentor or ally, this is
your spot for stories that healand strategies that work.
So grab a sweet tea, get comfyand let's step into growth
together, because here at MainUpMemphis, you leave the baggage
(00:48):
keep the change.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Alright, everybody, hello, my name is Joey Laswell,
certified financial socialworker, licensed master social
worker, and this is Main UpMemphis podcast and we are
excited to bring this.
We're calling ourselves themood dudes, I'm just going to
throw it out there but we haveEmmanuel and James.
(01:18):
They're both clinicians, mentalhealth clinicians, and
basically we're all part of theMade Up Memphis team and I just
wanted to, you know, bring themon, share some of their
experience, their expertise and,you know, just have kind of a
free-flowing conversation aboutmental health and issues that
are going on in the world.
(01:39):
So, first off, let's go aheadand get a little introduction
out of the way.
So, Emmanuel, I'll start withyou.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, your clinical
background and, yeah, just whatare some of your interests,
hobbies and aspirations.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right.
Hi, joey and James, it's sogood to connect with you all
again.
Hello to everyone who does notknow me my name is Emmanuel.
I am originally from Pine Bluff, arkansas.
I went to school for actually Ididn't never and I'll share the
story with you all.
Joey and James already knowsthis I didn't choose mental
(02:19):
health or social work.
It definitely chose me and itsounds cliche, but it's the
truth.
Um, when I went to school, Iwanted to be a neuropsychologist
and it's like similarneighborhood, but definitely not
the same street or block.
Um, but so life happened and Iended up going to undergrad for
um in the beginning, uh, degreesin psychology, social work and
(02:43):
and sociology, went on to do alittle MSW and then now I'm here
.
I'm a mental health advocate,behavioral health consultant.
I love what I do and the mostfun part for me with Maine of
Memphis is our outreach.
This organization is powerfulin the opportunities to serve
(03:06):
others and for me, organizations, particularly nonprofits, is
what you do for others that makeyou powerful, that make you
potent and make you relevant.
And from what I've seen withjust my short time so far with
man Up Memphis and the VisionaryRachel, it's powerful and I'm
just happy to be a part and tobe with you guys.
I say we look like an ensemblecast because you would never
(03:29):
just put us three together.
But the Mood Dudes are here tostay and I'm just happy to serve
.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Awesome, awesome.
We're happy to have you, james,the floor is yours.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, your clinical
background, and take it fromthere.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Sure.
Hi, I'm James.
I have been in the mentalhealth field since my undergrad
in 2016.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I've served in a variety of health care settings
in outpatient, in PHP, iop andresidentials, kind of spent the
last eight years searching formy clinical niche, as it were,
sliding really hard into DBT andright now in the moment, type
(04:16):
of skills, and I'm very excitedto complete my LPC while I'll be
with MainUp Memphis and thenI'm also looking forward to
working with the team and givingmore talks about mental health
as well yes, yes, and speakingof talks, so the little bit of
our origins, origin story isthat we all kind of had to meet
(04:39):
each other virtually over likezoom and and google meets and
all technological stuff, but wedidn't meet in person until the
Men's Mental Wellness Collective, I think it was called, held by
Baptist this was last Saturday,and we were all basically asked
(04:59):
to be a part of a men's mentalhealth workshop and so, yeah, we
started collaborating and oncewe were in person, things just
kind of clicked and yeah, andthen we formed a triumvirate,
that is the Moodudes.
(05:22):
So, yeah, so we did that andyeah, I kind of wanted to recap
that a little bit, talk aboutsome of the things that came up
in the session and really just,yeah, I mean, these are the
kinds of things that Made atMemphis does we do workshops, we
do lunch and learns, and yeah,so I mean so, okay, so who has a
good takeaway?
Or maybe a synopsis?
Which one of you guys wants tojump on that grenade takeaway?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
or maybe a synopsis which one of you guys wants to
jump on that grenade.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh, I feel like that was delayed, but anyways, um so
many, uh many members had theopportunity to not only
collaborate with baptistmemorial health, we had an
opportunity to be a sponsor forthis event.
It was the Men's CollectiveHeart and Soul and it was an
opportunity for men to gathermen of various backgrounds, ages
(06:12):
, ethnicities, the whole nine toget a better understanding of
their mental health andemotional well-being.
So there were several sessionsoffered well, there were five
sessions offered, as well askeynote speakers and Main Up.
Memphis was our premier sessionand had a great turnout.
(06:35):
We had some people come to oursession.
We worked on identifyingemotions and managing sad
emotions, which is somethingthat, historically, men struggle
with, regardless of background.
So we really got to break downsome barriers.
Answers to a lot of Q&A moreQ&A than I think any of us
(06:58):
expected, but that is a healthysign.
Yes, but that is a great sign.
In these type of environments,that means those who are
attended are engaged and they'reactively feeding on what is
being presented to them.
So it was a great time.
Mind you, like Joey said, thatwas our first time meeting face
to face.
But when you have good stuff,good stuff just works.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So that's what happened in that space and it
was a great opportunity to servemen in Memphis, in the
mid-south and looking forward to, you know, several other
opportunities following thatabsolutely, and I'll just say
that I feel, like the, maybe theQ&A, because there was so much
activity in in the room thatmaybe there is a, a need, an
unmet need, for men and mentalhealth services, even if it's
(07:53):
just in a group setting, youknow, like a, I don't know, like
some type of uh, group therapytype of format, but, um, it just
seemed like there wasdefinitely a need or a desire to
talk about some of these things, and there isn't really much of
a place to talk about some ofthese things.
So I don't know what were youthinking, james?
What was your takeaway from theworkshops?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, we had a lot of really good questions that
people were asking.
I thought that we would have alot more people who are a lot
more hesitant, given the settingthat we're in and given that
it's a bunch of strangers andyou know how we are in Memphis,
we don't like sharinginformation with strangers, we
don't like people being in ourbusiness, but people really
(08:36):
opened up.
They were really willing toactually ask good questions and
try to learn and try to betterthemselves.
And that's something that we seein Memphis a lot, just here and
there is that occasionallysomebody opens up enough to say
like, hey, I'm trying to getbetter, I'm trying to move
forward, I'm trying to buildsomething, and every so often we
(08:57):
have somebody who asks for help, which is a little bit rare,
but this was kind of anopportunity to facilitate that,
and that was actually one of thetopics we were talking about
was asking for help, um, onsaturday and how you know,
sometimes we get to a point,especially as men, where we do
everything in our power to makesomething happen, make something
(09:18):
shake, make something move, tobuild something for ourselves,
and we hit a wall and we stillhave all these responsibilities
to try to come through for ourfamily, our friends, for
ourselves.
But when we hit that wall andwe're trying to build it on our
own and we're getting more andmore frustrated, we tend to shut
down, to enter our panic mode,and that's not helpful.
(09:42):
So, really, taking an objectivelook at what are options for
getting some help, like who aresome people that I know, who are
some people who are trustworthy, who are some professionals who
I can go to for just this onetime, and then I don't have to
speak to them again after I getwhat I need, if everything is
honky dory right, things likethat, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, I think the stigma around mental health is
still there and I think it'seven more prevalent amongst men.
I mean, it's just not.
You know, we've come a littlebit in regards to making
progress towards normalizingtalking about mental health
stuff with.
You know, guys getting help,but I don't know what do you
(10:31):
think is the reasoning behindthis hesitance to reach out for
help when it's really you know,it's not that hard, it's just
uncomfortable.
You know, what do you think,emmanuel?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
We touched on it Saturday about.
So men have a dual fight whenit comes to mental health.
We have the stigma, and then wehave the socialization of men,
which I think is the fan thatfuels the fire of that stigma.
Right, so men were socializedto be tough at the cost of
(11:02):
expression, at the cost ofhealth, at the cost of us.
Right we?
The cost of health at the costof us?
Right, we walk around with ourproverbial armor and our capes
and we're always Superman andnever get to be Clark Kent.
That is not healthy.
It's not healthy for anybody.
It's just the data shows men doit the most right, because
society right, and that's a verybroad stroke, but you get it.
(11:28):
I think accessibility has alsobeen an issue, particularly men
who are black, indigenous peopleof color.
There has been historically redtape for accessing quality
mental health services.
So those are just a fewbarriers, but they're coming
down.
I want to be fair in ourassessment of mental health as
(11:53):
it stands in 2025.
There are some spaces whereit's almost too normalized and
people are using terminology andtheoretical approaches.
They have nothing they knownothing about and using it all
willy-nilly and incorrectly.
And it's very annoying, but I'mglad to know I'd rather pull it
(12:13):
back than try to add to.
So I'm very happy to know thatit is becoming more and more
destigmatized as the day goes byin every male community and if
we continue to learn thatvulnerability is okay in the
appropriate spaces and that wehave professionals for a reason
(12:34):
and it's hard enough to have mento go to take care of their
physical health, right, and it'ssuch an interesting dichotomy
because we pride ourselves somuch on performance, physical
performance but nobody wants togo see their PCP, if you have
one right.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, if you have one , that's a good point, because
most guys don't.
It's like what's a PCP mean,Right?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
primary care physician, the people who do
your routine checks.
If you are only going to see amedical professional when it's
time for your sports physical,yeah, let's check that Also.
A lot of this conversation cameup.
There's a lot of conversationaround.
You know you've got to takecare of yourself for and
following that was for yourfamily, for others, for your
(13:20):
loved ones.
All that's good and dandy, butyou have to do it for you too,
and I want us to get a healthyunderstanding and a healthy
compass of some things are foryou, you the person, you the man
it's not attached to someresponsibility or pressure that
you have, because we have enoughof that.
I want us, as men, to understandthat we have self-care and to
(13:43):
emphasize that self in theself-care, but to bring it back
around.
It's just as that.
We have self-care and toemphasize that self in the
self-care, right, but to bringit back around.
You know, it's just as normalas when you need a haircut, you
go see a barber.
When you need a heart checkup,you see a cardiologist, ent,
podiatrist.
It's the same thing.
If you're having mental andemotional challenges, you see a
(14:07):
mental health professional.
And then we also work todelineate the difference between
you know, just a mental healthissue or challenge and then like
crisis, right, because I thinkpeople think you have to wait
until the sky is falling to gotalk to a therapist or a life
coach or whatever your preferredhelping profession is, and you
(14:29):
don't.
Right.
If you are having issues withyour sleep, your social
interactions, your appetite,these are telltale signs that it
may be time to speak to aprofessional.
Is there something brewingunder the surface?
Right, that iceberg?
It's there and it's not goinganywhere we love to avoid, right
(14:50):
?
James did a great, greatexplanation on the fight, fight
or freeze and all the otherresponses of that and how that
also drives the lack of mengetting the resources and the
tips and tools that we need.
So I believe if people stickaround, if they continue to
listen to the podcast and engagewith what Mainland Memphis has
(15:13):
to offer, they'll get what theyneed in some way, form or
fashion.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Right, because we're also trying to help the
community.
This isn't just individualtherapy that's a part of our
bread and butter but, like we're, we're trying to get into the
community.
You know and and make changes.
You know where people need itthe most.
Because there's, like you said,red tape.
There is a cost barrier to uhto get access to mental health
(15:40):
services, and that's.
You know, underservedpopulations are probably the
last ones that are going to haveaccess to uh, the services that
they probably needed maybe themost.
Who knows?
And um, I was thinking about ananalogy.
I was.
I want to run it by you guys.
What do you guys think aboutmental health professionals as
like mechanics of the mind?
(16:01):
So you know you, you take yourcar in for preventative
maintenance, ideally.
So that's like getting therapyand doing self-care, but then
sometimes something's bad andthen you got to go into the shop
for an emergency, and that'swhen you get to the crisis level
.
But like, ideally, we dopreventative maintenance, like
(16:22):
get our oil changed, do tune-upsand things like that, and then
you know our, our, our engineruns smoother.
I don't know, I I'm justbrainstorming, but like what do
you guys think about thatanalogy?
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I get where you're coming from and I don't know
that.
I agree with the mechanic.
Okay, the mechanic archetype,because when I think about a
mechanic, I want if I if I'm notfixing the car myself right,
because if I know what I'm doingI can fix the problem.
The problem is done, it's overwith, same thing as if I take it
(16:53):
to the mechanic.
I want the mechanic to fix theproblem.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I want to go away once he's done, doing what he
does and that's not the natureof our work, right?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
okay, no, I like yeah , I can be a support, I can be a
pillar, I can be somebody whohelps to, like I can pass you
the water during, like, asporting event.
I can give you, like, um,snacks, refreshments, give you a
pep talk, right, I can give youeverything that you need to
succeed, but I cannot do it foryou I will meet you wherever in
(17:26):
the middle you are and I willtry to coax you to at least
halfway.
My goal is to, if you're notmeeting me halfway in the middle
of our work, then to, at thevery beginning, meet you where
you are, try to kind of likecoax you along at least to 50,
because I can meet you at 50 andhave a working, professional
(17:46):
relationship with you.
But eventually, if what we'redoing is we're having people
come in and work on goals, whichis primarily what the nature of
mental health is is that wedefine some goals like, hey, I
realize that I'm having problemswith feeling overwhelmed, I'm
having problems with socialanxiety, I'm having problems
with my depression.
Right, I'm having problems withsocial anxiety, I'm having
problems with my depression,right, we make a goal around
(18:08):
those things that you'reexperiencing and then hopefully,
you are making the changes thatget you to where you need to be
, that get you into that healthyplace.
You might need some advice orsome guidance or some directives
or some activities to get youthere, and I can perfectly find
giving that to you.
But as far as you coming intome and oh, my adhd is going to
(18:30):
be cured, it's not no yeah, Ithink fix is the.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
The key word, that that we need to distinguish is
that you know we're not, we'renot going to fix you because you
have to do a lot of the work.
We kind of, we kind of pop thehood, if you want to keep the
analogy going, and we, we, youknow, look around and then
diagnose a little bit, or youknow, like, identify maybe, okay
, this, you know, I hear alittle knocking sound over here.
(18:55):
This might be something goingon here, you know, so, um.
So yeah, I like thatdistinction and I appreciate you
.
You know, um, shutting me downso so forcefully.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I'm sorry, I could be more sorry, so no, no, I'm just
kidding, that was, that wasperfect, all right, any anything
from you emmanuel any any umthoughts on on the uh I see
where you're coming from and Iimmediately, immediately loved
it.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Um, but james just kind of ruined the fun for
everybody yay, I feel likethat's one of his pleasures in
life to pop the balloon.
But he does make an excellentpoint.
Oh, and I think that alsodrives issues with men coming to
therapy because they have thisthinking or this mindset that
(19:46):
this person is going to fix meand they're going to get out of
my business, like a mechanicdoes a car.
It's very personal very intimatewhich, you know, therapy is
supposed to be, um, but you know, we're we skill build, we don't
to james point, we don't fixanything right, we just help
empower you to do the work right.
(20:07):
The best we can do is sit inthe passenger seat, but we're
not going to.
You know, drive for you, right,um.
So I think, um, I think it's abeautiful analogy.
It just needs to have that.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
That, that caveat, yeah what's the role in the
hospital where you have thesurgery team and there's like
the maiden surgeon, he's likescalpel and the person is like
scalpel and they hand it over?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Who's that?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
person.
That's who we aremetaphorically.
We will hand you the scalpel.
We will hand you all the toolsthat you need.
You're the one who has to dothe work, though.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
And I mean, I'll even say that just from being on
both sides of the coin, likeI've been through therapy before
and you know, you can have thelight bulb, aha moment of the
awareness of, oh man, I do thator I have this issue.
But the changing part, thechanging of those patterns, is
(21:03):
where you have to do the work.
You know, and I've been guiltyof not doing my homework in
therapy, you know what I mean.
So I think that's a greatdistinction, because what, what
do you guys like?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
James.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
James is just.
You said that you have ahistory of not doing your
homework in therapy.
I was like, oh, Joey, we wouldhave words.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
We need to have an offline session after this.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
No, let the people hear it.
Let the people hear it.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
This is Memphis.
We don't need to put ourbusiness out there like that.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Joey's greatest self-disclosure.
Like really is one of his toolsand his Batman tool belt.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Right, right, there you go.
I like that Batman.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Okay, I'm going to bird walk just a little bit, um,
but if we had to be like what?
What would our equivalentsuperpower be?
I mean, superhero be just onour you know what we know about
each other like, if you had toequate, uh, superhero, marvel,
dc, anime, whatever, who wouldit be?
This is for all the nerdslistening to our podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Well, I think before In the previous booth session
that me and James had.
He said Thor for himself.
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I pick Thor Just because he's kind of he's very
direct and he may not be themost conventional in his methods
, but he's going to get the jobdone.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Hmm, okay, I'm going to come back with my answer when
you guys are done.
And what was yours, Joey?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
In that same session.
I initially didn't have ananswer and then I went with
Captain America, but I don'tknow, I don't really I don't
know.
It just kind of felt right, youknow, the whole patriotism
being in the military, I don'tknow it, just it was a vibe
thing.
But yeah, I don't know, I guessif I had to put just a pin in
(23:02):
that one, I still kind of wantto think about it and we can
refine and iterate as we see fit.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well, I feel like I'm leaving the audience with a
cliffhanger, so I'm just goingto say it and then we can come
back to it in the next episode.
And they can provide what theythink.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
James.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I was thinking closer to Doctor Strange, because you
are so textbook and I love it.
I think it's because you're LPC, not LCSW, no shade.
But Doctor Strange, you know hehad to learn all the stuff
before he could do the stuff.
That's just my opinion.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And Joey, you are really close.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I was going to say Captain America, but the current
Captain America Like the Falconthat turned Captain America.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I haven't really seen that much as much yet.
Okay, I'm sorry, I lost somenerd points there.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
You need to watch the movie.
It's really great.
But the way he swoops in andsaves the day Peaceful but also
violent, that's kind of how Isee you.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Okay, wow, I like that.
That feels very nuanced.
I appreciate that so yeah, okay,well, um, I don't know that,
that was, uh, that was somegreat uh, you know, I guess this
is kind of like how the sausageis made a little bit.
You know like what, what, whatare what are clinicians talking
(24:23):
about?
You know what are.
What are we?
Um, uh, you know what are we.
What are clinicians talkingabout?
You know what are we.
You know what are we like whenwe're behind the scenes and
we're talking shop.
You know, like, what are wetalking about.
So, if we were to pull back thecurtain to, you know, just
everyday average people thatmight be looking into therapy,
(24:48):
average people that might belooking into therapy um, what
are some common myths thatyou've come across about therapy
and how would you dispel them?
You know, um, for futurelisteners, we'll go with james
first dr james.
dr james, as I'm twisting myface, trying to think of one
myth, Well, we can justbrainstorm a few myths and just
(25:11):
kind of go off of that, becauselike there are plenty, you know,
I can say, like the laying downon the couch, the old, like
Freudian.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Oh, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
With an old white dude with a tweed jacket and a
pipe and a pad of paper.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Okay, I got one for you and we talked about this.
We touched on this during theMen's Health Summit.
But the idea that you're goingto come into therapy and we're
going to talk about all yourchildhood traumas and somehow
rooting around in that is goingto fix whatever is going on for
you right now.
Sure, we can get to thateventually, but we kind of need
(25:52):
you to have the skills to dealwith the childhood trauma first.
So a lot of skill building isprobably going to be necessary
before we can get into any ofthe reads that from your past
are causing you problems,because you've got some problems
right now that we got to dealwith.
That's why you came.
Is that things are going onright now?
Right, um, because if it wasjust childhood trauma, I can put
(26:14):
this in a box for 60 years andunpack it when I'm 80.
Then, yeah, we would do that,but things are happening right
now.
That's what brought you tocounseling.
That's what brought you totherapy, um, so let's deal with
that first.
That's what brought you totherapy, so let's deal with that
first.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yes.
Yeah that's a great point.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
One myth that I have encountered is for some reason,
people think mental healthdocuments and records are public
, like somebody's going tosomehow know that you go to
therapy.
Nobody's going to know?
It reminds me of the TikToksound.
How would they know?
Nobody's going to know unlessyou go to therapy.
Nobody's gonna know it mightsmell the tiktok sound.
How would they know?
Nobody's gonna know unless youtell them.
And again it's.
(26:50):
It's becoming more and morenormalized.
So people, a lot of people,love to say my therapist said,
my therapist said, andoftentimes they're talking to
you and you are spreading thisinformation as something to
benefit the general public, andsometimes it does, but it's
usually for you, right, um?
(27:11):
but no, nobody is walking aroundtalking about your mental
health record it's just asprotected, if not more protected
than your medical record.
It is a medical record yes, so,um, yeah, that's one.
The second one is and we kindof spoke about it earlier about
accessibility.
There are still some barriers,but it's more and more
accessible than it used to be.
(27:31):
It's not as much of a of aprivilege, you know, here in the
state of Tennessee, for thosewho qualify, you can receive
mental health services for free,and I do mean free with
Behavioral Safety Net.
I'm not going to get politicalwith the governor, but that is
(27:54):
one thing that the Tennesseegovernor got right was funding
that and continue to fundingthat.
It's for adolescents.
Three and all the way toinfinity.
All you need is a qualifyingmental health diagnosis.
If you don't have one, anyclinician worth their salt can
give you one, and you canreceive outpatient services for
(28:16):
free.
Inpatient is anotherconversation, but also a lot of
clinicians offer sliding scales.
You can also go the nonprofitroute.
You don't have to go intoprivate practice.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Can you elaborate on sliding scale a little bit for
the audience.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, A sliding scale is so every clinician or
organization has their standardbilling fee for your session.
But if you meet certainfinancial qualifications around
affordability, then you can beoffered the same services at a
(28:53):
different rate, a lower rate.
So that's how that works, whichyou have to qualify right.
You can't just be like can Iget a signing scale, Like sure,
Can you provide so-and-so,so-and-so, so it's kind of like
getting benefits or whatever andthen you know if the
organization offers it then youcan get it.
A lot of private people offer it.
Private practices offer itbecause non-profit is usually
(29:17):
already kind of discountedbecause insurance is paying for
that.
But it's usually options forthose who don't have insurance
and they need to pay forservices but they can't afford
the standard rate and so that'show sliding scale works.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I appreciate you elaborating on that because,
like you know, part of what Ithink, or I want, this part of
this podcast's mission, is tokind of demystify the
therapeutic process a little bitand normalize it.
And that actually makes methink of what my myth would be
is that therapy is going tobasically turn you into a
(29:58):
sniveling baby.
You know you're going to belike in a fetal position, crying
, you know, and there will bethere may be tears there, you
know, and there's going to beintense emotion.
So I'm not trying to deny thator undermine that, but yeah, I
think some of the depictions inmovies has really kind of
influenced how people perceivetherapy, you know.
(30:20):
And yeah, like speaking ofmovies, okay, real quick,
tangent, but best movieinterpretation of therapy or a
therapist in action oh, I don'thave a movie, but I do have a tv
show.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay, um er, I mean, I'm sorry, the pit on hbo max
I've been here oh my god, theyhave an er social worker love
her.
That's how I used to work in aclinic.
That's where I got a lot of myclinical experience and primary
care clinic.
So I didn't have as manyconsults as she does on the show
Nowhere near as dramatic, butjust to see it I can tell that
(31:02):
they have consulted an actualclinician before they did the
show.
It's not just you know what theythink it is outside did the
show.
It's not just what they thinkit is outside of the game.
Some of those things are sonuanced you know a clinician
told them that that is one of myfavorite and most recent
(31:24):
representations of a clinicianin the field.
Also, whoever DreamWorks, pixar, disney has been talking to
about the last five years or sohas been getting it right Like
Inside Out, inside Out 2, win orLose on Disney+.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I'm not making this a commercial for Disney.
No, no, no, I've heard aboutthat one too.
Please contact Rachel Walkerand run that check for this
promo.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Chantel.
I'm sorry, rachel, chantel,rachel, I love you girl.
Maybe that's premonition.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
But no for real.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
They have been getting it right.
As a clinician, you can turn itoff, but sometimes you just
have your lens on and you cansee how careful they were to get
the messages across in ahealthy way and it's accurate.
So I would say those are somepretty good examples.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
What about you guys?
I don't think I watch enoughmovies or TV to really have
anything off the top of my head.
That's actually like aclinician.
But a lot of Ghibli movies havea therapeutic quality to them,
like kiki's delivery servicewhen she goes on vacation, but
she's visiting her artist friend, like out in the woods, and her
artist friend is like listeningto her talk about like how
(32:44):
terrible it is that like she'slosing all of her abilities and
her work is going so terriblyand how poor everything is going
.
And she's just like I thinkmaybe you're overthinking it.
Maybe you are putting so muchpressure on yourself for
something that you used to enjoythat you're not enjoying it
anymore.
Right, like maybe we need totake another view.
Or, um, like in howl's movingcastle, um, the way that the
(33:07):
girl gets over the curse thereis that she has to change her
view of herself.
And it's not all the way gone.
You can still see the effects.
Her hair never turns back froman old lady's hair into her
vibrant brown hair from when shewas appearing younger, but her
visual features and her physicalfeatures become younger once
(33:27):
she changes the way that shelooks at things.
So I think a lot of gayhiblimovies have a lot of therapeutic
qualities.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
That's going to make me want to revisit my Ghibli
collection, right, and I guess,okay.
So for me I would probably haveto say Good Will Hunting, robin
Williams, just kind of aclassic, I mean, yeah, it's a
little Hollywood-ish, you know,hollywood-ized if you want to
call it that.
But I of a classic I mean, yeah, it's a little Hollywood-ish,
you know Hollywood-ized if youwant to call it that, but I
(33:57):
don't know, I just felt like youknow, it was a nuanced, you
know, performance.
He's a nuanced character andRob Williams did a really good
job and I think it alsohighlights that, yeah,
therapists are humans too and wefeel and we have our own
traumas and we have our ownstuff that we're working through
(34:18):
.
So, yeah, I just reallyappreciate the nuance of how
they portrayed the therapeuticprocess.
I know some people have somecritiques of it, but that's just
my opinion.
And then this kind of leads meto a random, another random
tangent, slightly related um,have you guys heard of geek
(34:39):
therapy?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
is that the tabletop therapy where we start using
like role-playing games andthings like that?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
yeah, that's part of it.
There's a whole certificationfor it.
Now I've been looking into itand they have Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Yeah, actually I have a colleague who is certified in
that and was trying to get meinto it.
I did not end up looking intoit, though.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
I hope he's listening .
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I hope he's listening and I hope he texts you after
this podcast and shames you ohman, that's usually James' job
but yeah, so geek therapy.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I think there's something there.
It's pretty niche, obviously,and you have to be geeky, pretty
geeky to administer it, butbasically you use um like
fandoms, and you really yeah,yeah so like, who evaluates?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
if you're like geeky enough, is there like a board to
say, hey, you meet thequalifications?
To be geeky, like what's thelitmus test for.
Oh, okay like a geek cred.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
GDS, the geek to dork scale.
You're not going to bequalified If you are genuinely
geeky and you know your comichistory and things of that
nature, then maybe you canqualify.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
So what if you're like a great clinician but
you're just a few comics off?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
You can't get this out of you.
That's a cultural competenceissue, honestly.
Maybe you should not say thatyou specialize in this, on your
psychology.
Today, I'm just saying thereyou go.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Or how about this devil's advocate that you're not
nerdy but you want to brush upon your nerdy skills so that you
can relate to your clientsbetter, and that's kind of some
of the modalities that they talkabout.
Is that, you know, especiallyif you know one of your clients
is, you know, a big Lord of theRings fan, like you can kind of
like get savvy on the lore andstart incorporating that into
(36:49):
the therapeutic process becauseit kind of like it.
Really they can relate to it alot easier because they're
already passionate about it.
Um, so, yeah, I just wanted to.
I just was curious from youryour guys's like professional
opinions, like what do you guysthink about that?
And, um, when are we going toget certified?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
oh, that was always the plot.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
The plot, oh man, and how are you going to set us up?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
we are all pretty geeky, so we might as well just
lean into it.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
I'm not mad at that, I'm willing to as long as you're
supplying the books and as longas you're supplying me with the
paid hours in order to read andfamiliarize myself with the
books so I can DM for people.
Well, the thing is okay, madeof memphis.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Our core demographic is 11 to 25 year old youth, male
, female.
So what?
What do a lot of the that agerange?
They, they have hobbies andinterests minecraft, roblox,
whatever you know like.
So, whatever, I think byeducating ourselves and becoming
more culturally competent wecan become better clinicians.
(37:59):
I don't know, that's just mypitch.
We'll talk offline about thisand eventually our group
practice will be born.
They'll let me get my mindracing because it's a dangerous,
dangerous thing sometimes.
All right, so we, we, we,basically, you know we want to
(38:26):
kind of do this as a runningfeature segment.
You know where we all gettogether the mood dudes and, and
you know, talk about mentaltogether, the mood dudes and,
and you know, talk about mentalhealth, um, talk about made up
memphis, and you know just um,kind of learn, teach and grow
together.
Um, I've already learned a lotsince hanging out with these two
guys, so I appreciate that.
(38:47):
Um, so, um, so, yeah, any, isthere anything?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
that's what's that you didn't learn anything, james
.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
He already knows it all.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
You're muted.
You're literally muted.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Yes, like Joey said, I know everything, I just can't
remember it all at once.
There you go, yeah, but no, Ihave learned a lot from you guys
.
Nice, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Well, there's still plenty more to learn and plenty
more to talk about.
So, was there anything that youwant to tee up for the next
episode or anything that youguys would like to talk about?
We can brainstorm that or, evenbetter, we can encourage the
audience to send in somesuggestions, some topics that
(39:41):
you guys want to talk about.
After hearing our vibe, seeingwhat we're talking about, what
are some of the things that youguys would like for us to talk
about?
Speaker 4 (39:49):
How's that sound?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Emmanuel, what's your ?
Speaker 4 (39:50):
specialties.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
What's my specialties ?
What's my specialties and whatwait, wait.
I feel like this is a setup.
What?
Topics do you feel comfortable?
Speaker 4 (40:00):
talking about that.
You could talk for like 10-15minutes, educate people on
anxiety, grief, autism.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
A lot of my career has been with people living with
autism youth and young adultsat risk.
Youth and young adults, that'spretty much it.
Oh, mental health andspirituality, spirituality and
religion, especially as itpertains to the African American
experience.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, I can give you 14 episodes on that we can dig
into that for sure, I'd lovethat.
Awesome, awesome, okay, whatabout you, james?
Speaker 4 (40:38):
yeah, so I also um like to talk about depression
and anxiety, especially as theyrelate to the fight flight
freeze system, because it popsup more often than people think.
Um, I like looking atinterpersonal problem areas like
the grief, like emmanuel wassaying, interpersonal disputes,
which are arguments that we havewith other people, role
transitions, where we're gainingor losing responsibilities, and
(41:01):
then also interpersonalisolation, loneliness any of
those things I can talk about atlength.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I'm intrigued.
That's like reading a movie.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
That's like reading a book.
Yeah, emmanuel's eyes just litup for the podcast audience and
he was doing the Mr Burns evilfinger things.
Excellent, excellent, oh man.
Well, that covers a pretty goodspectrum and I might disappoint
some people.
Well, okay, so I guess I wouldhave to say veterans, veterans,
(41:34):
mental health issues.
I'm a veteran.
I was in the air force foralmost 14 years and seen plenty
and done plenty and experiencedplenty, and then, as a clinician
, obviously I have a soft spotfor for my fellow vets and
active duty, um, so, yeah, I didmy internship at the VA
actually here in Memphis and, um, you know, I can talk, yeah, I
(41:56):
could talk about that, for, foryou know, hours and hours, uh,
and then the psychology offinance, which, uh, you know
that's another part of MainUpMemphis.
We haven't talked about muchyet, but, uh, the the interplay
of the psychology of how wespend, why we spend, you know
things like that, how to budget.
So Main Up Memphis does have afinancial literacy program and
(42:20):
you know we're ramping that up.
We're going to basically startdoing it's a 12-week program,
but, yeah, we'll probably have awhole other.
We could talk about, yeah, thepsychology of money all day.
Um, we could talk about, yeah,the psychology of money all day,
um, so, yeah, so, veteranissues, money issues, um.
And then I have worked with, uh, residential youth, um, at risk
(42:42):
youth, juvenile justice,associated youth, and then going
back to um, the, the pitreference, my first job was an
er social worker, so I really dohave to watch that now because
that is irrelevant.
I will, I'll be like I'll be.
I don't know about this.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
I don't think I would have done it that way.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
No, that's not right, that's right oh man, um, all
right.
So I think we got some, somepretty good topics already.
I am curious to see what theaudience, the listeners, would
like to hear from us, or maybethey would like to hear less of
me rambling about random thingsthat are not relevant.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
We're not going to do that.
We like to hear Tom and.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Joey, I'm not going to stifle my creative crazy
brain.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Correct, it's your superpowers.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Oh man.
So yeah, superpowers.
Just to recap, we've talked alot about nerdy stuff.
We've nerded out honestly overmental health stuff, nerded out
honestly over mental healthstuff.
So if you know someone who'snerdy about mental health, this
(43:59):
is going to be your podcast andto kind of highlight what the
organization does.
The plan is we're going to haveI'm going to be interviewing
other members of the Made UpMemphis team and we're going to
be highlighting what they do andjust kind of telling our story,
because this is a nonprofit butthe mission is very powerful
and you know, we want to make aname for ourselves in the city
(44:22):
of Memphis.
So, yeah, okay, last thing Iwanted to get you guys we had a
really good discussion aboutmain up, like the term main up,
because a lot of people mighthave questions about it, and we
talked about it with Rachel inour last interview.
But what does main up mean toyou guys?
Speaker 4 (44:46):
I can go, because we talked about this before.
Main up is pretty much like acall to action.
Main Up is pretty much like acall to action.
It's almost like saying standup to somebody who they're
saying like oh, I have so far togo, I have to do this.
On the other Right, Well,you're not going to get there
just laying on the floor.
Main Up, stand up, figure outwhat it is that you need.
(45:07):
Talk to people right, Gatheryour resources and let's get
over there.
Yes, you can take over there.
Like, yes, you can take a break, yes, you can do what you need
to do to do your self-care andto heal.
At the end of the day, what dowe need to get done?
How are we going to get it done?
That's what MainUp is to me.
Let's put together a plan.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
I like it.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
For me and hi guys, I'm still new here For me, man
up is a play on the toxicmasculinity around man up, you
know, like just man up or suckit up or whatever, to a point or
(45:51):
in a degree where it's nothealthy on a mental and
emotional level and oftentimeseven physical level.
I literally just experiencedthat with extended family, had
somebody in our family who wasmanning up, wanted to be the
provider for years, decades, andhad a very serious diagnosis
(46:11):
because of it, because he was sofocused on being a provider
that he neglected his health.
But thankfully he had a familyand those around him to be an
intervention for him.
He's much better now and on theroad to getting better.
So for man up, it's acolloquialism.
(46:33):
If you live in Memphis it can bea very surface level word, but
it also can be a very intimateword Like, hey, man, I know you
man.
So I think it's a play on theopposite of man up and it's
encouraging those healthycircles and spaces for men, uh,
(46:57):
to get what they need.
So that's that's my vision, andnot vision, but interpretation
of what it means.
Now, right, so if I got itwrong I'm sorry, um, but that's
that's what I think it is.
I actually would love to know um, if I was anywhere close to
what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
And we'll let the audience know next week.
You can listen to my interviewwith Rachel, the last previous
episode.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Do your homework, Emmanuel.
Yeah, I do?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
What is it with you?
And homework?
Do you have a trigger on?
Speaker 4 (47:28):
homework.
I give everybody homework.
It's great.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Okay, your homework is to leave me alone.
Thank you, I give everybodyhomework.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
It's great.
Okay, your homework is to leaveme alone.
Thank you, I do oh man, Allright, so I guess oh man.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Oh man, this is getting spicy.
So I guess I'm actually thenewest to Memphis out of the
three of us, so I've only beenhere for about two and a half
three years.
So I'm still, I'm stilllearning Memphis.
I've been in and out of Memphis, you know, like traveling,
(47:58):
passing through, visiting here acouple of times.
But now I'm here and, you know,I'm still kind of like a
student of Memphis in a way, andthat's why I've learned a lot
about you.
We talked about barbecue placesand we still I guess we're going
to have to do a field trip atsome point to some of these
(48:18):
places.
But yeah, main Up, as I startedto learn about Maine, you know,
and just like how it's used,like you were saying, emmanuel,
it has a lot of variation to itI think and, like I said, more
nuance than people realize.
And I think it's beeninteresting watching some of the
(48:39):
reactions of people as theycome up and they're like main up
, main up, memphis.
You know, they kind of likethey're nodding, they're trying,
they're kind of processing it,and then they come to the booth
and then then we give them ourspiel and then they're like okay
, yeah, I like what you guys aredoing.
You know, and I think I like theidea of it being like stepping
up, like James was saying, likeyou, step up.
(49:00):
And because it is and it's notmeant only for men.
We, you know, this is a verydiverse organization, which is
why I love it so much and yeah,so I mean I guess, yeah, main up
for me is still up for a littlebit of interpretation, but,
yeah, step up.
I really like that idea.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Rachel's going to be like you are all wrong.
Go to detention.
We're going to delete thatwhole section Goodbye yeah.
Rachel's, like the AmandaWaller for me.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
Who's Amanda Waller.
I want to know what kind ofinteractions you've been having
with her because, honestly, howare you getting in this kind of
trouble?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
oh, well, amanda waller's like a boss and she
runs this very um powerfulnetwork of like, and then I
don't necessarily call it wellvillains, them villains, and
they go on these missions andassignments and if you don't do
it right, she's going to blowyour head off so we're villains,
(50:05):
huh alright.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Well, that paints an interesting picture of Rachel,
but exactly.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
I want to know what kind of trouble you've been
getting into, sir, oh man thisis all out of love.
You don't got to out yourselfto everybody, but you got to out
yourself to us.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
It's Doctor Strange.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Doctor Strange, I'm mixing universes, I think.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah, because Doctor Strange is.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Marvel Amanda is DC yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
Yeah, we don't want to anger any of the comic book
fans.
Yeah, they just took away.
Yeah, we don't want to angerany of the the comic book fan
they just took away my geektherapy certification this is
how you get DQ'd from thecertification like right here,
by mixing up your right versesor getting Star Trek and Star
Wars mixed up, that's a big one.
(50:55):
well, gentlemen, you know thishas been Star Wars mixed up.
That's a big one.
That's it.
Well, gentlemen, this has beena gosh darn delight.
I've been loving every secondof this.
I appreciate you guys takingtime out of your schedules to
kind of talk shop, talk aboutsome mental health issues and
(51:17):
set the tone for what the futureof this organization looks like
and what the future of maybeeven mental health can look like
, because we're looking intoexpanding this model into other
markets if it works well, and Ithink it will.
So, stay tuned to the MainUpMemphis podcast.
Any last parting words,gentlemen?
Speaker 4 (51:41):
I do.
Please, please, please.
If you have any questions,please send them to info at main
up memphisorg, or you candirect them to joey laswell.
Its contact information isobviouslya part of the podcast
that you're listening to rightnow.
You can submit any questionsthat you have about mental
health or about your experienceswith interpersonal problems,
(52:05):
maybe with your friends or yourfamily, or maybe you just want
to check in and be and ask like,am I crazy and we can tell you
yes or no.
You might say yes, but just beready for that Cause I will hurt
your feelings Therapeutically.
Tough love, tough love, yeah,but send us your questions.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
We want to answer them for you guys.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
All right, Emmanuel, you got to follow that one.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Take care of yourself and tune in next time.
Yes, take care of yourself,take care of others, take care
of your health.
I will say you made me think ofsomething earlier when you're
talking about our physicalhealth, and this is my last
tangent, but um, oh sorry, um,that was embarrassing anyways.
So, um, yes, uh, the the firstbooth that I went to for made up
(53:02):
memphis.
There was a prostate screenscreening out there and I went
ahead and went, you know,because I'm of that similar, of
that age range, ish, I'm notgoing to say my actual age, um,
and you guys can't either, but,um, you're not gonna believe it,
but uh, yeah, so I did thescreening and I my results came
(53:23):
back and um, is a little on thebad side.
Then it kind of got me worried.
So I've been eating healthierand and I'm gonna go get a
follow-up.
So that's just my little psathat.
Uh, you know these freescreenings, or even if it's not
free, then contact your PCP,which stands for Primary.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Care Physician.
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
For those who don't know, all you guys out there who
don't know what that means,we're going to drill it into
your heads.
But yes, go talk to your PCP,go talk to your mental health
professional and just be kind toeach other.
Listen to the next podcast.
This is the Mood Dudes and weare out.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Alright.
Well, that's a wrap for today'sepisode of the Main Up Memphis
podcast.
Remember, real change startswhen you show up, break cycles
and walk into something greater.
If you felt inspired, do methree quick favors Subscribe and
leave a note or a five-starreview so that more people can
find us.
Share this episode with someonewho might need a lift and get
(54:36):
involved Volunteer, refer ayouth or donate at
madeupmemphisorg.
Follow us on our socials atMade Up Memphis for
behind-the-scenes goodness andsend your questions or success
stories to us and they mightmake it on air.
Until next time here at Made UpMemphis, leave the baggage,
(54:57):
keep the change.
Welcome to the Main Up Memphis podcast, where we
celebrate the grit, heart andhope that make the 901 shine.
Each week, we sit down withchangemakers, youth and families
to talk real mental health wins, money moves and life skills
breakthroughs All the tools weuse at Main Up Memphis to uplift
(00:22):
, equip and empower people tobuild stronger, more resilient
lives.
Whether you're 14 or 40, aparent, mentor or ally, this is
your spot for stories that healand strategies that work.
So grab a sweet tea, get comfyand let's step into growth
together, because here at MainUpMemphis, you leave the baggage
(00:48):
keep the change.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Alright, everybody, hello, my name is Joey Laswell,
certified financial socialworker, licensed master social
worker, and this is Main UpMemphis podcast and we are
excited to bring this.
We're calling ourselves themood dudes, I'm just going to
throw it out there but we haveEmmanuel and James.
(01:18):
They're both clinicians, mentalhealth clinicians, and
basically we're all part of theMade Up Memphis team and I just
wanted to, you know, bring themon, share some of their
experience, their expertise and,you know, just have kind of a
free-flowing conversation aboutmental health and issues that
are going on in the world.
(01:39):
So, first off, let's go aheadand get a little introduction
out of the way.
So, Emmanuel, I'll start withyou.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, your clinical
background and, yeah, just whatare some of your interests,
hobbies and aspirations.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right.
Hi, joey and James, it's sogood to connect with you all
again.
Hello to everyone who does notknow me my name is Emmanuel.
I am originally from Pine Bluff, arkansas.
I went to school for actually Ididn't never and I'll share the
story with you all.
Joey and James already knowsthis I didn't choose mental
(02:19):
health or social work.
It definitely chose me and itsounds cliche, but it's the
truth.
Um, when I went to school, Iwanted to be a neuropsychologist
and it's like similarneighborhood, but definitely not
the same street or block.
Um, but so life happened and Iended up going to undergrad for
um in the beginning, uh, degreesin psychology, social work and
(02:43):
and sociology, went on to do alittle MSW and then now I'm here
.
I'm a mental health advocate,behavioral health consultant.
I love what I do and the mostfun part for me with Maine of
Memphis is our outreach.
This organization is powerfulin the opportunities to serve
(03:06):
others and for me, organizations, particularly nonprofits, is
what you do for others that makeyou powerful, that make you
potent and make you relevant.
And from what I've seen withjust my short time so far with
man Up Memphis and the VisionaryRachel, it's powerful and I'm
just happy to be a part and tobe with you guys.
I say we look like an ensemblecast because you would never
(03:29):
just put us three together.
But the Mood Dudes are here tostay and I'm just happy to serve
.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Awesome, awesome.
We're happy to have you, james,the floor is yours.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, your clinical
background, and take it fromthere.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Sure.
Hi, I'm James.
I have been in the mentalhealth field since my undergrad
in 2016.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I've served in a variety of health care settings
in outpatient, in PHP, iop andresidentials, kind of spent the
last eight years searching formy clinical niche, as it were,
sliding really hard into DBT andright now in the moment, type
(04:16):
of skills, and I'm very excitedto complete my LPC while I'll be
with MainUp Memphis and thenI'm also looking forward to
working with the team and givingmore talks about mental health
as well yes, yes, and speakingof talks, so the little bit of
our origins, origin story isthat we all kind of had to meet
(04:39):
each other virtually over likezoom and and google meets and
all technological stuff, but wedidn't meet in person until the
Men's Mental Wellness Collective, I think it was called, held by
Baptist this was last Saturday,and we were all basically asked
(04:59):
to be a part of a men's mentalhealth workshop and so, yeah, we
started collaborating and oncewe were in person, things just
kind of clicked and yeah, andthen we formed a triumvirate,
that is the Moodudes.
(05:22):
So, yeah, so we did that andyeah, I kind of wanted to recap
that a little bit, talk aboutsome of the things that came up
in the session and really just,yeah, I mean, these are the
kinds of things that Made atMemphis does we do workshops, we
do lunch and learns, and yeah,so I mean so, okay, so who has a
good takeaway?
Or maybe a synopsis?
Which one of you guys wants tojump on that grenade takeaway?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
or maybe a synopsis which one of you guys wants to
jump on that grenade.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Oh, I feel like that was delayed, but anyways, um so
many, uh many members had theopportunity to not only
collaborate with baptistmemorial health, we had an
opportunity to be a sponsor forthis event.
It was the Men's CollectiveHeart and Soul and it was an
opportunity for men to gathermen of various backgrounds, ages
(06:12):
, ethnicities, the whole nine toget a better understanding of
their mental health andemotional well-being.
So there were several sessionsoffered well, there were five
sessions offered, as well askeynote speakers and Main Up.
Memphis was our premier sessionand had a great turnout.
(06:35):
We had some people come to oursession.
We worked on identifyingemotions and managing sad
emotions, which is somethingthat, historically, men struggle
with, regardless of background.
So we really got to break downsome barriers.
Answers to a lot of Q&A moreQ&A than I think any of us
(06:58):
expected, but that is a healthysign.
Yes, but that is a great sign.
In these type of environments,that means those who are
attended are engaged and they'reactively feeding on what is
being presented to them.
So it was a great time.
Mind you, like Joey said, thatwas our first time meeting face
to face.
But when you have good stuff,good stuff just works.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
So that's what happened in that space and it
was a great opportunity to servemen in Memphis, in the
mid-south and looking forward to, you know, several other
opportunities following thatabsolutely, and I'll just say
that I feel, like the, maybe theQ&A, because there was so much
activity in in the room thatmaybe there is a, a need, an
unmet need, for men and mentalhealth services, even if it's
(07:53):
just in a group setting, youknow, like a, I don't know, like
some type of uh, group therapytype of format, but, um, it just
seemed like there wasdefinitely a need or a desire to
talk about some of these things, and there isn't really much of
a place to talk about some ofthese things.
So I don't know what were youthinking, james?
What was your takeaway from theworkshops?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, we had a lot of really good questions that
people were asking.
I thought that we would have alot more people who are a lot
more hesitant, given the settingthat we're in and given that
it's a bunch of strangers andyou know how we are in Memphis,
we don't like sharinginformation with strangers, we
don't like people being in ourbusiness, but people really
(08:36):
opened up.
They were really willing toactually ask good questions and
try to learn and try to betterthemselves.
And that's something that we seein Memphis a lot, just here and
there is that occasionallysomebody opens up enough to say
like, hey, I'm trying to getbetter, I'm trying to move
forward, I'm trying to buildsomething, and every so often we
(08:57):
have somebody who asks for help, which is a little bit rare,
but this was kind of anopportunity to facilitate that,
and that was actually one of thetopics we were talking about
was asking for help, um, onsaturday and how you know,
sometimes we get to a point,especially as men, where we do
everything in our power to makesomething happen, make something
(09:18):
shake, make something move, tobuild something for ourselves,
and we hit a wall and we stillhave all these responsibilities
to try to come through for ourfamily, our friends, for
ourselves.
But when we hit that wall andwe're trying to build it on our
own and we're getting more andmore frustrated, we tend to shut
down, to enter our panic mode,and that's not helpful.
(09:42):
So, really, taking an objectivelook at what are options for
getting some help, like who aresome people that I know, who are
some people who are trustworthy, who are some professionals who
I can go to for just this onetime, and then I don't have to
speak to them again after I getwhat I need, if everything is
honky dory right, things likethat, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, I think the stigma around mental health is
still there and I think it'seven more prevalent amongst men.
I mean, it's just not.
You know, we've come a littlebit in regards to making
progress towards normalizingtalking about mental health
stuff with.
You know, guys getting help,but I don't know what do you
(10:31):
think is the reasoning behindthis hesitance to reach out for
help when it's really you know,it's not that hard, it's just
uncomfortable.
You know, what do you think,emmanuel?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
We touched on it Saturday about.
So men have a dual fight whenit comes to mental health.
We have the stigma, and then wehave the socialization of men,
which I think is the fan thatfuels the fire of that stigma.
Right, so men were socializedto be tough at the cost of
(11:02):
expression, at the cost ofhealth, at the cost of us.
Right we?
The cost of health at the costof us?
Right, we walk around with ourproverbial armor and our capes
and we're always Superman andnever get to be Clark Kent.
That is not healthy.
It's not healthy for anybody.
It's just the data shows men doit the most right, because
society right, and that's a verybroad stroke, but you get it.
(11:28):
I think accessibility has alsobeen an issue, particularly men
who are black, indigenous peopleof color.
There has been historically redtape for accessing quality
mental health services.
So those are just a fewbarriers, but they're coming
down.
I want to be fair in ourassessment of mental health as
(11:53):
it stands in 2025.
There are some spaces whereit's almost too normalized and
people are using terminology andtheoretical approaches.
They have nothing they knownothing about and using it all
willy-nilly and incorrectly.
And it's very annoying, but I'mglad to know I'd rather pull it
(12:13):
back than try to add to.
So I'm very happy to know thatit is becoming more and more
destigmatized as the day goes byin every male community and if
we continue to learn thatvulnerability is okay in the
appropriate spaces and that wehave professionals for a reason
(12:34):
and it's hard enough to have mento go to take care of their
physical health, right, and it'ssuch an interesting dichotomy
because we pride ourselves somuch on performance, physical
performance but nobody wants togo see their PCP, if you have
one right.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, if you have one , that's a good point, because
most guys don't.
It's like what's a PCP mean,Right?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
primary care physician, the people who do
your routine checks.
If you are only going to see amedical professional when it's
time for your sports physical,yeah, let's check that Also.
A lot of this conversation cameup.
There's a lot of conversationaround.
You know you've got to takecare of yourself for and
following that was for yourfamily, for others, for your
(13:20):
loved ones.
All that's good and dandy, butyou have to do it for you too,
and I want us to get a healthyunderstanding and a healthy
compass of some things are foryou, you the person, you the man
it's not attached to someresponsibility or pressure that
you have, because we have enoughof that.
I want us, as men, to understandthat we have self-care and to
(13:43):
emphasize that self in theself-care, but to bring it back
around.
It's just as that.
We have self-care and toemphasize that self in the
self-care, right, but to bringit back around.
You know, it's just as normalas when you need a haircut, you
go see a barber.
When you need a heart checkup,you see a cardiologist, ent,
podiatrist.
It's the same thing.
If you're having mental andemotional challenges, you see a
(14:07):
mental health professional.
And then we also work todelineate the difference between
you know, just a mental healthissue or challenge and then like
crisis, right, because I thinkpeople think you have to wait
until the sky is falling to gotalk to a therapist or a life
coach or whatever your preferredhelping profession is, and you
(14:29):
don't.
Right.
If you are having issues withyour sleep, your social
interactions, your appetite,these are telltale signs that it
may be time to speak to aprofessional.
Is there something brewingunder the surface?
Right, that iceberg?
It's there and it's not goinganywhere we love to avoid, right
(14:50):
?
James did a great, greatexplanation on the fight, fight
or freeze and all the otherresponses of that and how that
also drives the lack of mengetting the resources and the
tips and tools that we need.
So I believe if people stickaround, if they continue to
listen to the podcast and engagewith what Mainland Memphis has
(15:13):
to offer, they'll get what theyneed in some way, form or
fashion.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Right, because we're also trying to help the
community.
This isn't just individualtherapy that's a part of our
bread and butter but, like we're, we're trying to get into the
community.
You know and and make changes.
You know where people need itthe most.
Because there's, like you said,red tape.
There is a cost barrier to uhto get access to mental health
(15:40):
services, and that's.
You know, underservedpopulations are probably the
last ones that are going to haveaccess to uh, the services that
they probably needed maybe themost.
Who knows?
And um, I was thinking about ananalogy.
I was.
I want to run it by you guys.
What do you guys think aboutmental health professionals as
like mechanics of the mind?
(16:01):
So you know you, you take yourcar in for preventative
maintenance, ideally.
So that's like getting therapyand doing self-care, but then
sometimes something's bad andthen you got to go into the shop
for an emergency, and that'swhen you get to the crisis level
.
But like, ideally, we dopreventative maintenance, like
(16:22):
get our oil changed, do tune-upsand things like that, and then
you know our, our, our engineruns smoother.
I don't know, I I'm justbrainstorming, but like what do
you guys think about thatanalogy?
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I get where you're coming from and I don't know
that.
I agree with the mechanic.
Okay, the mechanic archetype,because when I think about a
mechanic, I want if I if I'm notfixing the car myself right,
because if I know what I'm doingI can fix the problem.
The problem is done, it's overwith, same thing as if I take it
(16:53):
to the mechanic.
I want the mechanic to fix theproblem.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I want to go away once he's done, doing what he
does and that's not the natureof our work, right?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
okay, no, I like yeah , I can be a support, I can be a
pillar, I can be somebody whohelps to, like I can pass you
the water during, like, asporting event.
I can give you, like, um,snacks, refreshments, give you a
pep talk, right, I can give youeverything that you need to
succeed, but I cannot do it foryou I will meet you wherever in
(17:26):
the middle you are and I willtry to coax you to at least
halfway.
My goal is to, if you're notmeeting me halfway in the middle
of our work, then to, at thevery beginning, meet you where
you are, try to kind of likecoax you along at least to 50,
because I can meet you at 50 andhave a working, professional
(17:46):
relationship with you.
But eventually, if what we'redoing is we're having people
come in and work on goals, whichis primarily what the nature of
mental health is is that wedefine some goals like, hey, I
realize that I'm having problemswith feeling overwhelmed, I'm
having problems with socialanxiety, I'm having problems
with my depression.
Right, I'm having problems withsocial anxiety, I'm having
problems with my depression,right, we make a goal around
(18:08):
those things that you'reexperiencing and then hopefully,
you are making the changes thatget you to where you need to be
, that get you into that healthyplace.
You might need some advice orsome guidance or some directives
or some activities to get youthere, and I can perfectly find
giving that to you.
But as far as you coming intome and oh, my adhd is going to
(18:30):
be cured, it's not no yeah, Ithink fix is the.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
The key word, that that we need to distinguish is
that you know we're not, we'renot going to fix you because you
have to do a lot of the work.
We kind of, we kind of pop thehood, if you want to keep the
analogy going, and we, we, youknow, look around and then
diagnose a little bit, or youknow, like, identify maybe, okay
, this, you know, I hear alittle knocking sound over here.
(18:55):
This might be something goingon here, you know, so, um.
So yeah, I like thatdistinction and I appreciate you
.
You know, um, shutting me downso so forcefully.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I'm sorry, I could be more sorry, so no, no, I'm just
kidding, that was, that wasperfect, all right, any anything
from you emmanuel any any umthoughts on on the uh I see
where you're coming from and Iimmediately, immediately loved
it.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Um, but james just kind of ruined the fun for
everybody yay, I feel likethat's one of his pleasures in
life to pop the balloon.
But he does make an excellentpoint.
Oh, and I think that alsodrives issues with men coming to
therapy because they have thisthinking or this mindset that
(19:46):
this person is going to fix meand they're going to get out of
my business, like a mechanicdoes a car.
It's very personal very intimatewhich, you know, therapy is
supposed to be, um, but you know, we're we skill build, we don't
to james point, we don't fixanything right, we just help
empower you to do the work right.
(20:07):
The best we can do is sit inthe passenger seat, but we're
not going to.
You know, drive for you, right,um.
So I think, um, I think it's abeautiful analogy.
It just needs to have that.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
That, that caveat, yeah what's the role in the
hospital where you have thesurgery team and there's like
the maiden surgeon, he's likescalpel and the person is like
scalpel and they hand it over?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Who's that?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
person.
That's who we aremetaphorically.
We will hand you the scalpel.
We will hand you all the toolsthat you need.
You're the one who has to dothe work, though.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
And I mean, I'll even say that just from being on
both sides of the coin, likeI've been through therapy before
and you know, you can have thelight bulb, aha moment of the
awareness of, oh man, I do thator I have this issue.
But the changing part, thechanging of those patterns, is
(21:03):
where you have to do the work.
You know, and I've been guiltyof not doing my homework in
therapy, you know what I mean.
So I think that's a greatdistinction, because what, what
do you guys like?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
James.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
James is just.
You said that you have ahistory of not doing your
homework in therapy.
I was like, oh, Joey, we wouldhave words.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
We need to have an offline session after this.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
No, let the people hear it.
Let the people hear it.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
This is Memphis.
We don't need to put ourbusiness out there like that.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Joey's greatest self-disclosure.
Like really is one of his toolsand his Batman tool belt.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Right, right, there you go.
I like that Batman.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Okay, I'm going to bird walk just a little bit, um,
but if we had to be like what?
What would our equivalentsuperpower be?
I mean, superhero be just onour you know what we know about
each other like, if you had toequate, uh, superhero, marvel,
dc, anime, whatever, who wouldit be?
This is for all the nerdslistening to our podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Well, I think before In the previous booth session
that me and James had.
He said Thor for himself.
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
I pick Thor Just because he's kind of he's very
direct and he may not be themost conventional in his methods
, but he's going to get the jobdone.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Hmm, okay, I'm going to come back with my answer when
you guys are done.
And what was yours, Joey?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
In that same session.
I initially didn't have ananswer and then I went with
Captain America, but I don'tknow, I don't really I don't
know.
It just kind of felt right, youknow, the whole patriotism
being in the military, I don'tknow it, just it was a vibe
thing.
But yeah, I don't know, I guessif I had to put just a pin in
(23:02):
that one, I still kind of wantto think about it and we can
refine and iterate as we see fit.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well, I feel like I'm leaving the audience with a
cliffhanger, so I'm just goingto say it and then we can come
back to it in the next episode.
And they can provide what theythink.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
James.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I was thinking closer to Doctor Strange, because you
are so textbook and I love it.
I think it's because you're LPC, not LCSW, no shade.
But Doctor Strange, you know hehad to learn all the stuff
before he could do the stuff.
That's just my opinion.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And Joey, you are really close.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I was going to say Captain America, but the current
Captain America Like the Falconthat turned Captain America.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I haven't really seen that much as much yet.
Okay, I'm sorry, I lost somenerd points there.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
You need to watch the movie.
It's really great.
But the way he swoops in andsaves the day Peaceful but also
violent, that's kind of how Isee you.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Okay, wow, I like that.
That feels very nuanced.
I appreciate that so yeah, okay,well, um, I don't know that,
that was, uh, that was somegreat uh, you know, I guess this
is kind of like how the sausageis made a little bit.
You know like what, what, whatare what are clinicians talking
(24:23):
about?
You know what are.
What are we?
Um, uh, you know what are we.
What are clinicians talkingabout?
You know what are we.
You know what are we like whenwe're behind the scenes and
we're talking shop.
You know, like, what are wetalking about.
So, if we were to pull back thecurtain to, you know, just
everyday average people thatmight be looking into therapy,
(24:48):
average people that might belooking into therapy um, what
are some common myths thatyou've come across about therapy
and how would you dispel them?
You know, um, for futurelisteners, we'll go with james
first dr james.
dr james, as I'm twisting myface, trying to think of one
myth, Well, we can justbrainstorm a few myths and just
(25:11):
kind of go off of that, becauselike there are plenty, you know,
I can say, like the laying downon the couch, the old, like
Freudian.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Oh, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
With an old white dude with a tweed jacket and a
pipe and a pad of paper.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Okay, I got one for you and we talked about this.
We touched on this during theMen's Health Summit.
But the idea that you're goingto come into therapy and we're
going to talk about all yourchildhood traumas and somehow
rooting around in that is goingto fix whatever is going on for
you right now.
Sure, we can get to thateventually, but we kind of need
(25:52):
you to have the skills to dealwith the childhood trauma first.
So a lot of skill building isprobably going to be necessary
before we can get into any ofthe reads that from your past
are causing you problems,because you've got some problems
right now that we got to dealwith.
That's why you came.
Is that things are going onright now?
Right, um, because if it wasjust childhood trauma, I can put
(26:14):
this in a box for 60 years andunpack it when I'm 80.
Then, yeah, we would do that,but things are happening right
now.
That's what brought you tocounseling.
That's what brought you totherapy, um, so let's deal with
that first.
That's what brought you totherapy, so let's deal with that
first.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yes.
Yeah that's a great point.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
One myth that I have encountered is for some reason,
people think mental healthdocuments and records are public
, like somebody's going tosomehow know that you go to
therapy.
Nobody's going to know?
It reminds me of the TikToksound.
How would they know?
Nobody's going to know unlessyou go to therapy.
Nobody's gonna know it mightsmell the tiktok sound.
How would they know?
Nobody's gonna know unless youtell them.
And again it's.
(26:50):
It's becoming more and morenormalized.
So people, a lot of people,love to say my therapist said,
my therapist said, andoftentimes they're talking to
you and you are spreading thisinformation as something to
benefit the general public, andsometimes it does, but it's
usually for you, right, um?
(27:11):
but no, nobody is walking aroundtalking about your mental
health record it's just asprotected, if not more protected
than your medical record.
It is a medical record yes, so,um, yeah, that's one.
The second one is and we kindof spoke about it earlier about
accessibility.
There are still some barriers,but it's more and more
accessible than it used to be.
(27:31):
It's not as much of a of aprivilege, you know, here in the
state of Tennessee, for thosewho qualify, you can receive
mental health services for free,and I do mean free with
Behavioral Safety Net.
I'm not going to get politicalwith the governor, but that is
(27:54):
one thing that the Tennesseegovernor got right was funding
that and continue to fundingthat.
It's for adolescents.
Three and all the way toinfinity.
All you need is a qualifyingmental health diagnosis.
If you don't have one, anyclinician worth their salt can
give you one, and you canreceive outpatient services for
(28:16):
free.
Inpatient is anotherconversation, but also a lot of
clinicians offer sliding scales.
You can also go the nonprofitroute.
You don't have to go intoprivate practice.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Can you elaborate on sliding scale a little bit for
the audience.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, A sliding scale is so every clinician or
organization has their standardbilling fee for your session.
But if you meet certainfinancial qualifications around
affordability, then you can beoffered the same services at a
(28:53):
different rate, a lower rate.
So that's how that works, whichyou have to qualify right.
You can't just be like can Iget a signing scale, Like sure,
Can you provide so-and-so,so-and-so, so it's kind of like
getting benefits or whatever andthen you know if the
organization offers it then youcan get it.
A lot of private people offer it.
Private practices offer itbecause non-profit is usually
(29:17):
already kind of discountedbecause insurance is paying for
that.
But it's usually options forthose who don't have insurance
and they need to pay forservices but they can't afford
the standard rate and so that'show sliding scale works.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I appreciate you elaborating on that because,
like you know, part of what Ithink, or I want, this part of
this podcast's mission, is tokind of demystify the
therapeutic process a little bitand normalize it.
And that actually makes methink of what my myth would be
is that therapy is going tobasically turn you into a
(29:58):
sniveling baby.
You know you're going to belike in a fetal position, crying
, you know, and there will bethere may be tears there, you
know, and there's going to beintense emotion.
So I'm not trying to deny thator undermine that, but yeah, I
think some of the depictions inmovies has really kind of
influenced how people perceivetherapy, you know.
(30:20):
And yeah, like speaking ofmovies, okay, real quick,
tangent, but best movieinterpretation of therapy or a
therapist in action oh, I don'thave a movie, but I do have a tv
show.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay, um er, I mean, I'm sorry, the pit on hbo max
I've been here oh my god, theyhave an er social worker love
her.
That's how I used to work in aclinic.
That's where I got a lot of myclinical experience and primary
care clinic.
So I didn't have as manyconsults as she does on the show
Nowhere near as dramatic, butjust to see it I can tell that
(31:02):
they have consulted an actualclinician before they did the
show.
It's not just you know what theythink it is outside did the
show.
It's not just what they thinkit is outside of the game.
Some of those things are sonuanced you know a clinician
told them that that is one of myfavorite and most recent
(31:24):
representations of a clinicianin the field.
Also, whoever DreamWorks, pixar, disney has been talking to
about the last five years or sohas been getting it right Like
Inside Out, inside Out 2, win orLose on Disney+.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I'm not making this a commercial for Disney.
No, no, no, I've heard aboutthat one too.
Please contact Rachel Walkerand run that check for this
promo.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Chantel.
I'm sorry, rachel, chantel,rachel, I love you girl.
Maybe that's premonition.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
But no for real.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
They have been getting it right.
As a clinician, you can turn itoff, but sometimes you just
have your lens on and you cansee how careful they were to get
the messages across in ahealthy way and it's accurate.
So I would say those are somepretty good examples.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
What about you guys?
I don't think I watch enoughmovies or TV to really have
anything off the top of my head.
That's actually like aclinician.
But a lot of Ghibli movies havea therapeutic quality to them,
like kiki's delivery servicewhen she goes on vacation, but
she's visiting her artist friend, like out in the woods, and her
artist friend is like listeningto her talk about like how
(32:44):
terrible it is that like she'slosing all of her abilities and
her work is going so terriblyand how poor everything is going
.
And she's just like I thinkmaybe you're overthinking it.
Maybe you are putting so muchpressure on yourself for
something that you used to enjoythat you're not enjoying it
anymore.
Right, like maybe we need totake another view.
Or, um, like in howl's movingcastle, um, the way that the
(33:07):
girl gets over the curse thereis that she has to change her
view of herself.
And it's not all the way gone.
You can still see the effects.
Her hair never turns back froman old lady's hair into her
vibrant brown hair from when shewas appearing younger, but her
visual features and her physicalfeatures become younger once
(33:27):
she changes the way that shelooks at things.
So I think a lot of gayhiblimovies have a lot of therapeutic
qualities.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
That's going to make me want to revisit my Ghibli
collection, right, and I guess,okay.
So for me I would probably haveto say Good Will Hunting, robin
Williams, just kind of aclassic, I mean, yeah, it's a
little Hollywood-ish, you know,hollywood-ized if you want to
call it that.
But I of a classic I mean, yeah, it's a little Hollywood-ish,
you know Hollywood-ized if youwant to call it that, but I
(33:57):
don't know, I just felt like youknow, it was a nuanced, you
know, performance.
He's a nuanced character andRob Williams did a really good
job and I think it alsohighlights that, yeah,
therapists are humans too and wefeel and we have our own
traumas and we have our ownstuff that we're working through
(34:18):
.
So, yeah, I just reallyappreciate the nuance of how
they portrayed the therapeuticprocess.
I know some people have somecritiques of it, but that's just
my opinion.
And then this kind of leads meto a random, another random
tangent, slightly related um,have you guys heard of geek
(34:39):
therapy?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
is that the tabletop therapy where we start using
like role-playing games andthings like that?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
yeah, that's part of it.
There's a whole certificationfor it.
Now I've been looking into itand they have Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Yeah, actually I have a colleague who is certified in
that and was trying to get meinto it.
I did not end up looking intoit, though.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
I hope he's listening .
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I hope he's listening and I hope he texts you after
this podcast and shames you ohman, that's usually James' job
but yeah, so geek therapy.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I think there's something there.
It's pretty niche, obviously,and you have to be geeky, pretty
geeky to administer it, butbasically you use um like
fandoms, and you really yeah,yeah so like, who evaluates?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
if you're like geeky enough, is there like a board to
say, hey, you meet thequalifications?
To be geeky, like what's thelitmus test for.
Oh, okay like a geek cred.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
GDS, the geek to dork scale.
You're not going to bequalified If you are genuinely
geeky and you know your comichistory and things of that
nature, then maybe you canqualify.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
So what if you're like a great clinician but
you're just a few comics off?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
You can't get this out of you.
That's a cultural competenceissue, honestly.
Maybe you should not say thatyou specialize in this, on your
psychology.
Today, I'm just saying thereyou go.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Or how about this devil's advocate that you're not
nerdy but you want to brush upon your nerdy skills so that you
can relate to your clientsbetter, and that's kind of some
of the modalities that they talkabout.
Is that, you know, especiallyif you know one of your clients
is, you know, a big Lord of theRings fan, like you can kind of
like get savvy on the lore andstart incorporating that into
(36:49):
the therapeutic process becauseit kind of like it.
Really they can relate to it alot easier because they're
already passionate about it.
Um, so, yeah, I just wanted to.
I just was curious from youryour guys's like professional
opinions, like what do you guysthink about that?
And, um, when are we going toget certified?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
oh, that was always the plot.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
The plot, oh man, and how are you going to set us up?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
we are all pretty geeky, so we might as well just
lean into it.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
I'm not mad at that, I'm willing to as long as you're
supplying the books and as longas you're supplying me with the
paid hours in order to read andfamiliarize myself with the
books so I can DM for people.
Well, the thing is okay, madeof memphis.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Our core demographic is 11 to 25 year old youth, male
, female.
So what?
What do a lot of the that agerange?
They, they have hobbies andinterests minecraft, roblox,
whatever you know like.
So, whatever, I think byeducating ourselves and becoming
more culturally competent wecan become better clinicians.
(37:59):
I don't know, that's just mypitch.
We'll talk offline about thisand eventually our group
practice will be born.
They'll let me get my mindracing because it's a dangerous,
dangerous thing sometimes.
All right, so we, we, we,basically, you know we want to
(38:26):
kind of do this as a runningfeature segment.
You know where we all gettogether the mood dudes and, and
you know, talk about mentaltogether, the mood dudes and,
and you know, talk about mentalhealth, um, talk about made up
memphis, and you know just um,kind of learn, teach and grow
together.
Um, I've already learned a lotsince hanging out with these two
guys, so I appreciate that.
(38:47):
Um, so, um, so, yeah, any, isthere anything?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
that's what's that you didn't learn anything, james
.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
He already knows it all.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
You're muted.
You're literally muted.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Yes, like Joey said, I know everything, I just can't
remember it all at once.
There you go, yeah, but no, Ihave learned a lot from you guys
.
Nice, yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Well, there's still plenty more to learn and plenty
more to talk about.
So, was there anything that youwant to tee up for the next
episode or anything that youguys would like to talk about?
We can brainstorm that or, evenbetter, we can encourage the
audience to send in somesuggestions, some topics that
(39:41):
you guys want to talk about.
After hearing our vibe, seeingwhat we're talking about, what
are some of the things that youguys would like for us to talk
about?
Speaker 4 (39:49):
How's that sound?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Emmanuel, what's your ?
Speaker 4 (39:50):
specialties.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
What's my specialties ?
What's my specialties and whatwait, wait.
I feel like this is a setup.
What?
Topics do you feel comfortable?
Speaker 4 (40:00):
talking about that.
You could talk for like 10-15minutes, educate people on
anxiety, grief, autism.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
A lot of my career has been with people living with
autism youth and young adultsat risk.
Youth and young adults, that'spretty much it.
Oh, mental health andspirituality, spirituality and
religion, especially as itpertains to the African American
experience.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, I can give you 14 episodes on that we can dig
into that for sure, I'd lovethat.
Awesome, awesome, okay, whatabout you, james?
Speaker 4 (40:38):
yeah, so I also um like to talk about depression
and anxiety, especially as theyrelate to the fight flight
freeze system, because it popsup more often than people think.
Um, I like looking atinterpersonal problem areas like
the grief, like emmanuel wassaying, interpersonal disputes,
which are arguments that we havewith other people, role
transitions, where we're gainingor losing responsibilities, and
(41:01):
then also interpersonalisolation, loneliness any of
those things I can talk about atlength.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I'm intrigued.
That's like reading a movie.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
That's like reading a book.
Yeah, emmanuel's eyes just litup for the podcast audience and
he was doing the Mr Burns evilfinger things.
Excellent, excellent, oh man.
Well, that covers a pretty goodspectrum and I might disappoint
some people.
Well, okay, so I guess I wouldhave to say veterans, veterans,
(41:34):
mental health issues.
I'm a veteran.
I was in the air force foralmost 14 years and seen plenty
and done plenty and experiencedplenty, and then, as a clinician
, obviously I have a soft spotfor for my fellow vets and
active duty, um, so, yeah, I didmy internship at the VA
actually here in Memphis and, um, you know, I can talk, yeah, I
(41:56):
could talk about that, for, foryou know, hours and hours, uh,
and then the psychology offinance, which, uh, you know
that's another part of MainUpMemphis.
We haven't talked about muchyet, but, uh, the the interplay
of the psychology of how wespend, why we spend, you know
things like that, how to budget.
So Main Up Memphis does have afinancial literacy program and
(42:20):
you know we're ramping that up.
We're going to basically startdoing it's a 12-week program,
but, yeah, we'll probably have awhole other.
We could talk about, yeah, thepsychology of money all day.
Um, we could talk about, yeah,the psychology of money all day,
um, so, yeah, so, veteranissues, money issues, um.
And then I have worked with, uh, residential youth, um, at risk
(42:42):
youth, juvenile justice,associated youth, and then going
back to um, the, the pitreference, my first job was an
er social worker, so I really dohave to watch that now because
that is irrelevant.
I will, I'll be like I'll be.
I don't know about this.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
I don't think I would have done it that way.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
No, that's not right, that's right oh man, um, all
right.
So I think we got some, somepretty good topics already.
I am curious to see what theaudience, the listeners, would
like to hear from us, or maybethey would like to hear less of
me rambling about random thingsthat are not relevant.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
We're not going to do that.
We like to hear Tom and.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Joey, I'm not going to stifle my creative crazy
brain.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Correct, it's your superpowers.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Oh man.
So yeah, superpowers.
Just to recap, we've talked alot about nerdy stuff.
We've nerded out honestly overmental health stuff, nerded out
honestly over mental healthstuff.
So if you know someone who'snerdy about mental health, this
(43:59):
is going to be your podcast andto kind of highlight what the
organization does.
The plan is we're going to haveI'm going to be interviewing
other members of the Made UpMemphis team and we're going to
be highlighting what they do andjust kind of telling our story,
because this is a nonprofit butthe mission is very powerful
and you know, we want to make aname for ourselves in the city
(44:22):
of Memphis.
So, yeah, okay, last thing Iwanted to get you guys we had a
really good discussion aboutmain up, like the term main up,
because a lot of people mighthave questions about it, and we
talked about it with Rachel inour last interview.
But what does main up mean toyou guys?
Speaker 4 (44:46):
I can go, because we talked about this before.
Main up is pretty much like acall to action.
Main Up is pretty much like acall to action.
It's almost like saying standup to somebody who they're
saying like oh, I have so far togo, I have to do this.
On the other Right, Well,you're not going to get there
just laying on the floor.
Main Up, stand up, figure outwhat it is that you need.
(45:07):
Talk to people right, Gatheryour resources and let's get
over there.
Yes, you can take over there.
Like, yes, you can take a break, yes, you can do what you need
to do to do your self-care andto heal.
At the end of the day, what dowe need to get done?
How are we going to get it done?
That's what MainUp is to me.
Let's put together a plan.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
I like it.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
For me and hi guys, I'm still new here For me, man
up is a play on the toxicmasculinity around man up, you
know, like just man up or suckit up or whatever, to a point or
(45:51):
in a degree where it's nothealthy on a mental and
emotional level and oftentimeseven physical level.
I literally just experiencedthat with extended family, had
somebody in our family who wasmanning up, wanted to be the
provider for years, decades, andhad a very serious diagnosis
(46:11):
because of it, because he was sofocused on being a provider
that he neglected his health.
But thankfully he had a familyand those around him to be an
intervention for him.
He's much better now and on theroad to getting better.
So for man up, it's acolloquialism.
(46:33):
If you live in Memphis it can bea very surface level word, but
it also can be a very intimateword Like, hey, man, I know you
man.
So I think it's a play on theopposite of man up and it's
encouraging those healthycircles and spaces for men, uh,
(46:57):
to get what they need.
So that's that's my vision, andnot vision, but interpretation
of what it means.
Now, right, so if I got itwrong I'm sorry, um, but that's
that's what I think it is.
I actually would love to know um, if I was anywhere close to
what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
And we'll let the audience know next week.
You can listen to my interviewwith Rachel, the last previous
episode.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Do your homework, Emmanuel.
Yeah, I do?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
What is it with you?
And homework?
Do you have a trigger on?
Speaker 4 (47:28):
homework.
I give everybody homework.
It's great.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Okay, your homework is to leave me alone.
Thank you, I give everybodyhomework.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
It's great.
Okay, your homework is to leaveme alone.
Thank you, I do oh man, Allright, so I guess oh man.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Oh man, this is getting spicy.
So I guess I'm actually thenewest to Memphis out of the
three of us, so I've only beenhere for about two and a half
three years.
So I'm still, I'm stilllearning Memphis.
I've been in and out of Memphis, you know, like traveling,
(47:58):
passing through, visiting here acouple of times.
But now I'm here and, you know,I'm still kind of like a
student of Memphis in a way, andthat's why I've learned a lot
about you.
We talked about barbecue placesand we still I guess we're going
to have to do a field trip atsome point to some of these
(48:18):
places.
But yeah, main Up, as I startedto learn about Maine, you know,
and just like how it's used,like you were saying, emmanuel,
it has a lot of variation to itI think and, like I said, more
nuance than people realize.
And I think it's beeninteresting watching some of the
(48:39):
reactions of people as theycome up and they're like main up
, main up, memphis.
You know, they kind of likethey're nodding, they're trying,
they're kind of processing it,and then they come to the booth
and then then we give them ourspiel and then they're like okay
, yeah, I like what you guys aredoing.
You know, and I think I like theidea of it being like stepping
up, like James was saying, likeyou, step up.
(49:00):
And because it is and it's notmeant only for men.
We, you know, this is a verydiverse organization, which is
why I love it so much and yeah,so I mean I guess, yeah, main up
for me is still up for a littlebit of interpretation, but,
yeah, step up.
I really like that idea.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Rachel's going to be like you are all wrong.
Go to detention.
We're going to delete thatwhole section Goodbye yeah.
Rachel's, like the AmandaWaller for me.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
Who's Amanda Waller.
I want to know what kind ofinteractions you've been having
with her because, honestly, howare you getting in this kind of
trouble?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
oh, well, amanda waller's like a boss and she
runs this very um powerfulnetwork of like, and then I
don't necessarily call it wellvillains, them villains, and
they go on these missions andassignments and if you don't do
it right, she's going to blowyour head off so we're villains,
(50:05):
huh alright.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Well, that paints an interesting picture of Rachel,
but exactly.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
I want to know what kind of trouble you've been
getting into, sir, oh man thisis all out of love.
You don't got to out yourselfto everybody, but you got to out
yourself to us.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
It's Doctor Strange.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Doctor Strange, I'm mixing universes, I think.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah, because Doctor Strange is.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Marvel Amanda is DC yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
Yeah, we don't want to anger any of the comic book
fans.
Yeah, they just took away.
Yeah, we don't want to angerany of the the comic book fan
they just took away my geektherapy certification this is
how you get DQ'd from thecertification like right here,
by mixing up your right versesor getting Star Trek and Star
Wars mixed up, that's a big one.
(50:55):
well, gentlemen, you know thishas been Star Wars mixed up.
That's a big one.
That's it.
Well, gentlemen, this has beena gosh darn delight.
I've been loving every secondof this.
I appreciate you guys takingtime out of your schedules to
kind of talk shop, talk aboutsome mental health issues and
(51:17):
set the tone for what the futureof this organization looks like
and what the future of maybeeven mental health can look like
, because we're looking intoexpanding this model into other
markets if it works well, and Ithink it will.
So, stay tuned to the MainUpMemphis podcast.
Any last parting words,gentlemen?
Speaker 4 (51:41):
I do.
Please, please, please.
If you have any questions,please send them to info at main
up memphisorg, or you candirect them to joey laswell.
Its contact information isobviouslya part of the podcast
that you're listening to rightnow.
You can submit any questionsthat you have about mental
health or about your experienceswith interpersonal problems,
(52:05):
maybe with your friends or yourfamily, or maybe you just want
to check in and be and ask like,am I crazy and we can tell you
yes or no.
You might say yes, but just beready for that Cause I will hurt
your feelings Therapeutically.
Tough love, tough love, yeah,but send us your questions.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
We want to answer them for you guys.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
All right, Emmanuel, you got to follow that one.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Take care of yourself and tune in next time.
Yes, take care of yourself,take care of others, take care
of your health.
I will say you made me think ofsomething earlier when you're
talking about our physicalhealth, and this is my last
tangent, but um, oh sorry, um,that was embarrassing anyways.
So, um, yes, uh, the the firstbooth that I went to for made up
(53:02):
memphis.
There was a prostate screenscreening out there and I went
ahead and went, you know,because I'm of that similar, of
that age range, ish, I'm notgoing to say my actual age, um,
and you guys can't either, but,um, you're not gonna believe it,
but uh, yeah, so I did thescreening and I my results came
(53:23):
back and um, is a little on thebad side.
Then it kind of got me worried.
So I've been eating healthierand and I'm gonna go get a
follow-up.
So that's just my little psathat.
Uh, you know these freescreenings, or even if it's not
free, then contact your PCP,which stands for Primary.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Care Physician.
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
For those who don't know, all you guys out there who
don't know what that means,we're going to drill it into
your heads.
But yes, go talk to your PCP,go talk to your mental health
professional and just be kind toeach other.
Listen to the next podcast.
This is the Mood Dudes and weare out.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Alright.
Well, that's a wrap for today'sepisode of the Main Up Memphis
podcast.
Remember, real change startswhen you show up, break cycles
and walk into something greater.
If you felt inspired, do methree quick favors Subscribe and
leave a note or a five-starreview so that more people can
find us.
Share this episode with someonewho might need a lift and get
(54:36):
involved Volunteer, refer ayouth or donate at
madeupmemphisorg.
Follow us on our socials atMade Up Memphis for
behind-the-scenes goodness andsend your questions or success
stories to us and they mightmake it on air.
Until next time here at Made UpMemphis, leave the baggage,
(54:57):
keep the change.
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