October 20, 2025 • 50 mins
The chase to be “seen” is louder than ever, but does it make us any more whole? I sit down with my son, nephew, and daughter to unpack how social media, tribal identity, and real‑world pressure turn life into a performance—then we ask what it takes to be valued instead. From instant gratification to the quiet discipline of character, we get honest about the emotional cost of curating a persona and the freedom that comes from building a life that doesn’t beg for applause.
We dig into the gray areas: when flexing is honest celebration versus hollow status theater, and how context changes everything. In some circles a first‑class selfie is a diary entry; in mixed circles it reads as bragging. We also confront the racial double standard—why wealth signaling by white figures is framed as aspirational while Black creators get policed—and how selective outrage weakens community. Along the way we address history and systems: redlining, gatekeeping, and voting protections that still shape opportunity. The point isn’t to fuel fear, but to teach caution without crushing confidence, pairing real‑world prep with pride, purpose, and skills that compound over time.
If algorithms reward performance, how do we keep our souls? We share practical ways to choose presence over proof, reciprocity over reach, and substance over spectacle. Curate your inputs like your dinner table. Post less and mean it. Celebrate wins without auditioning for strangers. And when life asks for your eyes, put the phone down and live it. Hit play for a conversation that’s candid, layered, and useful—built to help you find the line between proud and performative, and to walk it with your head up.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
Music by Liam Weisner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
You hear a lot of creators on social media when
they're seeking instantgratification, they're slowly
losing themselves.
You're not proud really of whatyou are.
You're just proud of thereaction you get, how many likes
you get on an Instagram post,how many people comment on your
post, how many shares reposts,how many people are gonna see
what this is.
But people don't care about howyou got there or how you feel
(00:23):
behind the scenes.
You're the one that's takingthat toll because you're trying
to put a persona on social mediathat's not even you.
So where is your value?
SPEAKER_05 (00:31):
Thank you for joining us for this amazing
conversation.
Today we are talking about beingseen, whether it be on social
media or at work, as opposed tobeing valued, truly being
appreciated for who you are,showing up as your authentic
self.
And if I were to ask you whichone matters more, the answer
(00:53):
seems obvious, but is it really?
And today we're having aconversation with two young men
in their 20s, my son and mynephew, and my daughter who is
27, asking them to considerwhat's more important to them,
to their community, whether itbe on social media or in real
life, what impact this has ontheir psyche, on their mental
(01:17):
health, and how they plan tonavigate through all of it.
But this is also for us, youknow, the millennials, the Gen
X.
We're not immune to any of it,we're impacted by it as well.
And if you're not alreadyfollowing the show, hit that
follow button and please shareit with at least one person.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
(01:37):
Let's get to it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
In the living room, find this voice, forced all
together, making a choice, takea life, great new shit with a
coke, black man teach you wherethe keynote sponsor, physical
strife, hustle, heart, the pulseof life, race, love, and the
entrepreneurs, cryo toe, echoes,and find time, experts and
friends, powerful blend,tackling issues that never end
(02:01):
from our perspective.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
What does being seen mean to you personally?
Okay, the first thing that popsinto my head, immediately I
think of social media.
Because nowadays, the term Ifeel like being seen means just
putting yourself out there, notin the way of like putting
yourself in the middle of acrowd, but as in you just want
people to see what you're doing,just wanting to be a part of
(02:23):
something.
SPEAKER_05 (02:24):
As people struggle well into their 30s, 40s, and
even 50s with identity, who theytruly are.
Being seen is really beingauthentic.
It's being seen in a way that noone else sees you.
Does that resonate with you guysas well?
SPEAKER_06 (02:39):
When I hear you see me or I felt seen, people
knowing the right side of you.
So not what they see on socialmedia and what they hear from
friends or whatever.
It's actually knowing the realyou, your real intention,
knowing your real character,being able to defend you in
rooms that you're not in.
I would more so lean that way.
I wouldn't believe anything Isee on social media anyway.
SPEAKER_05 (03:00):
We know it's hauled.
Maybe not, yeah, maybe not allof it, but like I'm gonna say
easily 90% of it is trash.
And I'm guilty of it.
I catch myself doing things andI do it for social media.
You have no idea how many thingsthat I record, and then I go,
This is not really who I am.
It's silly.
I never post.
This is why it's like there'salmost nothing on my page
because if someone else hasn'tposted for me, it's not
(03:21):
happening because I record itand I go, I feel fake.
I feel funny doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (03:25):
I hope this is the right question to ask, but do
you think we're unintentionallytrying to fit in?
unknown (03:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Because trying to fit in is one thing, but
unintention, like just wantingto be a part of the crowd just
because you feel like that isright in your mind.
SPEAKER_05 (03:36):
So here's the thing: we are a tribal species.
That's what we are.
We do need to belong.
That's what kept us safe andkept us alive all these
millennia.
Right.
For example, if you take peoplewho are extreme right or extreme
left, okay, you can pluck anyone of them out of the crowd and
you'll find that you have morein common with that person that
you disagree with politicallythan you have disagreements
(03:57):
with.
So if you can have theseindividual conversations, things
are very, very different.
But at the end of the day, everyperson wants to belong in a
particular group.
SPEAKER_03 (04:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (04:06):
Most people.
Of course, you have theseunicorns.
You have people just likedoesn't matter what the world
thinks, this is me, this is whoI am.
But that's very, very rare.
Right.
Intentionally or not, I thinkthat it's just human nature.
The question is, what makessense to you and where is where
is the line between you and youjust blending in with everyone
else?
SPEAKER_06 (04:27):
I think it all just comes down to character.
Again, being a good person,making good decisions, right is
right and wrong is wrong.
It doesn't matter really whoyou're affecting, who you have
to lose, what everybody else issaying, you don't always really
need that reinsurance or the egoboost.
You just, again, you just needto be solid.
Your foundation needs to staythe same.
But I think sometimes where weget losses, we're just so
(04:47):
focused on being seen but by thewrong people.
We're wanting to get those wordsof affirmations from people that
don't matter, people that wedon't want to be like, people
that don't inspire us.
SPEAKER_05 (04:57):
So how do you guys at your age determine who those
people are that matter or thatshould matter to you?
SPEAKER_06 (05:02):
How do you think reciprocation I think matters?
When I was younger, I was justtrying to pour, pour, pour.
And it I think everyrelationship is meant to be
beneficial for both parties.
You sometimes will try to beselfless and you still can be,
but at the same time, you don'twant to pour from an empty cup.
So you want to one, always makesure that everything you're
(05:23):
pouring into the people in yourcircle is overflow.
But outside of that, you want tomake sure that you're putting
fire into someone that's puttingfire back into you.
So those are the only peoplethat really matter are the
people that add to yourhappiness, add value.
They don't keep taking andtaking and taking, and then you
still give them a voice in whatyou're doing and considering
them and feeling seen.
SPEAKER_05 (05:44):
Maybe this is kind of a new term.
Shining.
What comes to mind when you hearthat?
Is it confidence or is itshowing off?
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
My mind keeps going back.
That's uh social media.
I keep going back to thatbecause people keep posting like
their cars, their house, alltheir money, they'll have it all
on the table spread out.
Money spread.
Money spread.
Is shining supposed to be likewhat like flexing?
Yeah.
Flexing, basically, yeah.
Okay.
We can say flexing instead.
Okay.
(06:12):
Yeah, I think it's just likejust showing what you currently
have, but not how you got there.
SPEAKER_05 (06:18):
Would that be important to you if someone is
going to show what they have,that they show how they got
there?
Maybe it's kind of like aroadmap in case you want to
attempt the same thing.
SPEAKER_04 (06:28):
I don't think you're necessarily obliged to.
And you're free to show whateveryou want, but I just think a
sense of humbleness isimportant.
SPEAKER_06 (06:36):
I also think you're damned if you do and damned if
you don't, right?
Because if you're flexing andyou're online and you're showing
everybody your business, andit's like, oh my God, they're
they show every little thing.
It's like, oh wow.
But then if you're justconfident and you're proud of
yourself, and that's just yourlifestyle and you're just
sharing it because it's socialmedia and that's what you do,
people are like, oh, they'reshowing off.
They don't have to see everybag, we don't have to see every
(06:57):
date they go on, we don't haveto see all their achievements.
And it's like, why not?
So you don't you can tell whensomebody's doing too much and
when somebody is just proud oftheir success and showing their
progress.
There are some people that havetheir pictures from when they
were in middle school all theway through like marriage and
kids.
They're showing it all.
So if it's gotten better forthem, they're not necessarily
shining or flexing or whatever,but those people get spoken
(07:19):
about too, and it's alwaysgrouped into the same thing and
they're showing off.
SPEAKER_05 (07:22):
So two things for me.
I talked to a young man theother day, and he basically said
that he uses Instagram as hisphoto album.
That's where all his personalstuff goes.
He has a business page, he's onLinkedIn, but on Instagram, he's
like, it's like a cloud thatI'll have all my pictures
forever.
I'm not sure how safe and truethat is, but that's the that's
what he's using it for.
If someone is posting and theyare, even if the intention is
(07:46):
not to show off, but if they'reshowing what they possess, the
lifestyle, things that are notaccessible to just about
everyone.
Maybe you're having dinner at afancy restaurant, you're
traveling, you're travelingfirst class, and you're showing
that, and your intention is notto show it off.
But if my intention is I'mtrying to create a brand and
maybe I have a following, I makemoney from this thing, and it
(08:09):
helps to show these things, andthat makes sense to me.
But if that's not the goal, ifyou're just, you know, say you
have money from real estate andyou're not trying to put
together a a class or you're notselling an e-book or nothing
like that.
You're just showing that youdrive a very expensive car, live
in a nice place, have theseawesome trips.
If there's no point to it, Ikind of think it's a little
(08:31):
weird.
SPEAKER_06 (08:32):
It can be, but then again, I think perception's
important, right?
Because it depends on yoursurrounding.
If your following also has fancycars and also has nice houses
and also lunches at places wherelunch and a drink is 75 bucks
and it's no big deal, and theydo that all the time.
Nobody's gonna see your post andbe like, there he goes again
with that same loud car.
Because they have a loud cartoo, and they're also posting it
(08:54):
and they're not impressed.
It's just regular.
So it's when you have a mix offriends and a mix of influence
that now you're kind of notinsecure, but just hesitant to
post certain things becauseyou're considering the masses.
And that's I also don't thinkthat you should hide what you're
proud of or what you'repassionate about and the things
that you love, your hobbies,what you collect, because there
are people that might not bewhere you're at and will
(09:14):
consider you flexing.
You know when you're flexing,because you're usually lying.
SPEAKER_05 (09:19):
It's really your stuff, it's not a big deal to
show it.
The other thing that I find, ifwe're being totally fair,
because you know I have to takethis back to my own community.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (09:28):
When I see white people posting and showing off,
no one bats an eye.
Exactly.
And I'll give you an example.
Grant Cardone, who's someonethat I admire that has bought
his books, I study his course.
Come to think of it, no one eversays he's showing off when he
talks about nothing but hisprivate jets, you know, how much
money he makes in one deal andand the Rolexes and the
expensive stuff.
(09:48):
No one says he's showing off.
But there are a bunch of youngbrothers and sisters on social
media that when they talk aboutcertain things and he they get
materialistic, then they getattacked that way.
SPEAKER_06 (10:01):
Not impressed by your little car.
And it's like, that is not alittle car.
What is your deal?
SPEAKER_04 (10:05):
We're already grouped into a certain ideology,
so let's try to flex somethingof materialism.
It's gonna seem as eitherignorance or just like focused
on the wrong things, you know.
For if it was someone of adifferent race, it would be seen
as different, you know.
Like you said, it was normal ifuh a wealthy white man were to
(10:28):
flex the things that he has, hisprivate jets, his cars, his
businesses, it's just seen asnormal.
Correct.
His clubs, the clubs that hegoes to.
But it's different for usbecause of the the image that we
have.
SPEAKER_05 (10:40):
Do you think that here in this country, at least,
maybe just everywhere, but atleast in America for sure, being
denied certain things for solong, do you think it plays a
part in that ideology?
SPEAKER_04 (10:52):
Yes, for sure.
We were uh discussing thisrecently, but we've developed as
a culture this distinct victimmentality that just will not
leave for whatever reason.
SPEAKER_06 (11:05):
And there's separation.
SPEAKER_05 (11:07):
Well, again, hang on a second, expound on that a
little bit.
Because I want to touch on that.
What do you mean by that?
She was about to take it away.
SPEAKER_06 (11:14):
I think just the separation of it all, like we're
not against each other.
It's like we can never reallyprogress because we're so just
like nitpicking our community,but our community is like
they're just not beingrealistic.
Stop fighting these tiny, tiny,tiny problems and let's move as
a unit.
And I think that's what's veryfrustrating.
(11:36):
Like, you will sit, like yousaid, in on social media and see
the brothers and the sisters,they're on there being weird
under post and oh, that's howthey got this, or they're doing
this, but they're not with theirkids.
Like, you don't care aboutanybody else's personal life the
way that you do these otherpeople that have money, but it's
only within your community.
Like you're not dragging anyoneelse, you're not talking about
anybody else's family, anybodyelse's parenting style, anybody
(11:57):
else's collector's items.
You don't care.
You only care when it's us.
What frustrates me is theselective rage.
It's not if you're upset aboutit, period, then be upset about
it, period.
If flexing irritates you, thenbe upset, period.
Don't only be upset when it'ssomeone that has a little bit of
melanin.
And that's what's infuriating.
SPEAKER_05 (12:14):
So crabs in a barrel mindset?
SPEAKER_06 (12:16):
Yes.
Yeah.
Like let's go big.
If you're upset, be upset.
If you don't like it and youdon't have a good taste for it,
then it is what it is.
I don't like money spreads onwhite or black men.
Put it in your bank account.
Who walks around with that muchcash?
It's not my thing.
I don't like cars that literallysound like they're about to
explode before they take off.
I don't care who jumps out ofit.
It's not my thing.
Yeah, I'm not gonna only beturned off by it when it's
(12:39):
someone that looks like me.
SPEAKER_03 (12:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (12:41):
My opinion is my opinion.
And it's just it has nothing todo with skin color.
I'm not oblivious to the factthat there is a difference in
skin color and there are thingsthat we've gone through that
they've not gone through.
I understand that, but I don'twant to keep retreating back to
that when it comes to socialmedia and how we value ourselves
and how we speak about ourselvesand just how hard-body we are on
(13:01):
ourselves.
It's a lot of criticism, but noreal direction.
SPEAKER_04 (13:04):
I think that's another thing though.
You can connect that with beingseen and valued for black
people.
You know, that's the reason theypost these things because
they're taught growing up thatthey need to prove a point, they
need to be something, they needto be this.
So then they obviously want tobe seen, they promote themselves
in a certain way, which is whatthey were taught, which is
wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:22):
I think that's that's another thing in the
mindset where they just want tobe valued in a certain way,
which isn't the right way.
They end up losing sight ofwhat's important because they're
taught from such a young agethat they need to
subconsciously.
SPEAKER_06 (13:34):
They're just trying to fit in.
Words of affirmation for everysingle achievement, but from
strangers that are talking aboutyou.
That's where the mind game goeson because you're no you know
you're you're wanting to be seenby people that have no love for
you, don't actually want to seeyou do well.
They're social media people.
They're not real family.
You're not sitting around thetable and like discussing your
(13:54):
goals and stuff with your actualfamily, but you're connecting
online and thinking that yousomewhat have a fan base.
SPEAKER_05 (14:00):
A community.
SPEAKER_06 (14:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (14:02):
I guess I'll push back a little bit.
The level of being put down, thelevel of racism that someone my
age has faced, you haven't seen.
So the battles that I've had to,and it's just by sheer just
exposure, right?
Because experience.
I'm older and that's just justnormal, right?
Not because I was in anyparticular area or whatever,
it's just it's just what it is.
(14:22):
The longer you live, the moreyou'll deal with it, the more
you'll see it.
So it's a little different from20-year-olds like yourselves.
Yes, you're seeing more and moreof it.
And if there was no socialmedia, you might be like, I
don't even think racism exists.
I think it's over.
No, I mean what I'm what I'msaying is keep in mind that your
brother right here didn't knowhe was black until he was about
nine years old.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
You said that on the podcast.
SPEAKER_05 (14:44):
You are not that.
He was nine.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
I was nine.
SPEAKER_05 (14:48):
Eight.
I say that proudly, not the wayyou're taking it.
Here's what I mean by that.
We raised you and we shelteredyou, right?
And we didn't make everythingabout the fact that you're a
black kid versus a white kid.
But I knew as a father, as ablack man, that I need to start
telling you things.
It's unfortunate and it's veryheartbreaking, and it's sad that
I had to start telling you thatat eight.
(15:08):
So the fact that you didn't knowmeans we did a good job up to
that point because you didn'tsee yourself as a black kid.
You just saw yourself as I'mjust a kid, I'm a boy.
And so if I showed you a whitegirl and I said, What's the
difference between you and her?
You'd be like, I'm a boy.
She's a girl.
That's it.
Right?
But you're not thinking thatthis kid is white and I'm black.
And the poorer the community is,the more restrictions there are
(15:32):
on the particular group ofpeople based on resources, etc.
Like you can go into any hood,anywhere in any city and find
food deserts where they don'teven have a supermarket.
I mean, try it.
Go down to like College Park,final publics, final Kroger.
Now go find a bunch of churches,fried chicken.
Go find a liquor store, go finda check cashing place.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (15:53):
Right?
So it happens based onneighborhoods, and that's done
on purpose.
With them, they have to tellthat kid that even earlier.
That kid's gonna learn that he'sblack at three as soon as he can
talk.
But my point is, you weresheltered from it for a while,
and if there was no socialmedia, all of you guys sitting
here would have been exposed toit to some degree, but not a
lot.
(16:13):
Because keep in mind socialmedia is like wildfire.
It makes it worse because itforces people, like I talked
about earlier in tribalism, itforces people to say, I have to
pick a side.
Because I have to defend thosewho look like me or those who
share my ideals.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (16:27):
Right?
So then it's making people moreextreme than they would have
been otherwise.
So my original point, I've dealtwith it, I've been exposed to
it, and I deal with it more andmore, even now.
Whereas with you guys, it'sless.
So my question to you then iswhen you say there's a victim
mentality, when you say there'sa victim mindset, there's truth
(16:48):
to it, but there's for a reason.
unknown (16:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (16:50):
I don't think that black folks in general are
sitting around going, everythingthat happens is because I'm
black.
And again, I'm talking ingeneralizations, I'm not
speaking about the one, yeah,there's one idiot in every race
everywhere, right?
Yeah.
But in general, when somethinghappens, the last thing that I
think about, even though they'veslapped me in my face a million
times with racism, but the lastthing I think about is it's
(17:12):
because I'm black.
But then it becomes evident thatit's be it is because I'm black.
SPEAKER_02 (17:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (17:17):
So how could you blame an entire group of people
or certain demographics?
Let me push right back.
SPEAKER_06 (17:23):
Let's say push right back.
SPEAKER_05 (17:25):
And I'd like to hear from you too about please.
SPEAKER_06 (17:27):
Oh my God, we were having such a chat.
Yes, that's what I was.
SPEAKER_05 (17:30):
Please.
SPEAKER_06 (17:30):
So I think what comes from it too is just I'm
not saying that the victimmentality is something that I
don't understand.
I think that it's very muchfear-based.
And I get that.
All of it, I get it.
It's all trauma-based.
But my thing is when you'reteaching that young man, whether
it be three or nine, it can'tjust be fear them.
(17:51):
It's you against them.
You know, your life is injeopardy at all times.
Also build up that young man'sconfidence.
Also explain to him how powerfulhis history is.
How, like, don't just push whyhe is the way he is and what
he's going to face, and that beit.
Build up that confidence becausethat young man now, yes, is
going to be respectful and putboth his hands on the wheel and
(18:12):
keep a mild temper and put hiswindow all the way down and keep
it cool because he understandsand he was taught that he's a
young black man since he wasthree.
That's fine.
But at the same time, he's notgonna go online when he's living
in a home with nine people, it'sa two-bedroom house, and he's
not really living thatlifestyle.
And he's going out there andparking next to somebody's well
posting a picture next tosomebody else's car, flexing.
(18:33):
So that's what I'm saying.
Like they want to be seen, butseen in the wrong way.
It's there, that confidence isnot there.
So now they're pulling atstrings, now they're making
random music and they're postingwith people they don't know and
taking pictures, dressing inclothes that took their entire
check to buy.
It's a facade.
And it's because that confidenceisn't there, that foundation is
there.
The only thing that they weretaught is fear.
(18:53):
The only thing that they weretaught is trauma.
And it has to grow because nowyou have this grown insecure man
that the only thing he has isfear and rage.
And the only thing he could tieto is the fact that he's black.
SPEAKER_05 (19:05):
You said there's a victim mindset in our community.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:09):
I mean, I won't deny that obviously the racism's
there and we suffered as as arace.
Suffering.
Yes, we are still suffering.
Right.
But it is not as bad as it was.
We still have.
Like the thing is, especiallyyoung black people now.
SPEAKER_05 (19:24):
When?
When you say it's not as bad asit was when.
I'm sorry?
You say when you say it's not asbad as it was in what slavery.
SPEAKER_04 (19:33):
We're going to extremes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (19:35):
We have the same amount of rights in this world.
Right now, in this world, evennow, people That's not true.
Huh?
SPEAKER_05 (19:41):
That's not true.
About the same amount of rights.
So there's something calledredlining that prevents people
from living where they need tolive, and it's systematic.
There's also the fact that blackpeople in this country in 2025,
the right to vote is not aGod-given right.
It's not something we have asthe Constitution.
(20:02):
It was an amendment, and it hasto be voted on every 50 years.
Which means, like by next year,you might not be able to vote if
they vote against it.
What's up, listeners?
I just wanted to jump in herereal quick for a quick
correction.
It's not every 50 years.
So the 15th Amendment, whichgives every person in the United
(20:24):
States the right to voteregardless of race, is in fact a
permanent part of theConstitution.
But we were not considered anentire person, but rather
three-fifths of a person.
So in 1965, Congress passed theVoting Rights Act, but only for
(20:45):
a few years at a time.
So 1965, it had to be reenactedor reauthorized in 1970, then
75, and so on and so forth.
Finally, in 2006, you heard mecorrectly, in 2006, they did not
make it permanent, they extendedit for 25 years.
(21:08):
Which means in 2031, so just sixyears from now, my son, my
nephew, and my daughter, in2031, in their late 20s, will
not have the right to voteunless those protections are
again given.
And it will have everything todo with the Supreme Court, which
government is in place, andwhich way the political winds
(21:31):
blow.
So yeah, we don't have the samerights.
That'd be interesting.
So we don't have the samerights, but go on.
SPEAKER_04 (21:39):
Well, specifically what I was referring to is we
are not gonna walk in the storeand be denied to buy something.
It's not as extreme as it was.
Somebody might look at it ascrazy.
You're right.
SPEAKER_03 (21:51):
Somebody might do that.
SPEAKER_04 (21:52):
Somebody not they might look at it as crazy and be
like, I don't want to sell thisto you.
I don't even want you breathingthe same air I'm breathing, but
I guess.
But the point is what I wassaying is children are being
raised taught that they're lessthan something or someone else.
The problem is, like we all uhdiscussed in uh in the earlier
(22:13):
podcast, was there's um aproblem with fathers, black
fathers not being in thehousehold.
Did you know actually there's athing where mothers like single
mothers will get paid forfathers not being in the
households?
That is a thing.
Yeah.
Do you know basin?
SPEAKER_06 (22:27):
Yes.
You don't think so?
SPEAKER_05 (22:30):
So that is systematic, and that is by
design.
That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_04 (22:34):
So like I agree, we have unfortunate um
circumstances for sure.
For sure.
But the thing is, we're makingit harder on ourselves, which is
where that victim mentalitycomes in.
We're not fighting it how weshould be, we're influencing it
even further and makingourselves even more of a victim.
By doing what?
(22:54):
Just the way that we're raisingthe kids.
Um I'm saying we like I havekids.
No, no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05 (22:59):
I know what you mean.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (23:00):
Like the mothers, they'll they'll teach the
they'll teach young black folksthat men ain't shit.
The fathers ain't shit becausethe dads ain't around.
They'll teach them that whitepeople are superior in a certain
way.
They're like, it just startsfrom there.
We make it seem like they're theenemy, or we have to be afraid
of them, or we're less thanthem, and then they have this
mindset that just keeps spiraland growing in their minds as
they get older and older, andthen they have this fear of
(23:22):
white folks or this hatred ofwhite folks.
Not even just white people, itcould be anybody else.
But it's usually mostly whitepeople.
SPEAKER_06 (23:29):
Teach character-based things like be
slow to anger, still always be ayoung man, be a gentleman.
Your education is important.
Your family will be important.
Be careful with your body, becareful who you start a family
with because you're going tolead a family.
Help them develop in differentways.
Still give them the knowledge,still give them the information.
Don't keep it away from them.
(23:50):
Don't seclude them because youmade it out of a certain area or
whatever.
But at the same time, you don'twant your kid to be ignorant,
but you also want them to haveother things that they're proud
of, other things that they canbuild from.
You want them to start not readyto fight, but just at least
ready to go.
SPEAKER_04 (24:06):
It almost seems like they're raising them for
survival in a world.
Like they're gonna have to hunt.
And obviously, this is a worldwe have to survive.
For sure.
And that it seems like we'restarting this off with nothing
while everybody else has theadvantage.
SPEAKER_06 (24:19):
Head down, chest up.
SPEAKER_05 (24:21):
So earlier you mentioned like if we worked into
a store, it's funny you shouldmention it because the first
thing that came to mind was howOprah was profiled in a store in
Europe.
I forgot which store she was in,some bag store, either I think
um L Mess or uh Louis Vuitton.
I'm gonna pronounce those thingscorrectly, by the way, so I'm
not gonna if it sounds weird,right?
It's because I'm saying itright.
(24:42):
But it happens, it happens tothe best of us.
It happens to, even thoughthere's she was a billionaire.
When it comes to these women,for example, when you talk about
these mothers and what theyteach, I think subconsciously
there is an element to whatyou're saying that's true,
teaching that the white peopleare superior.
But I don't think I've everheard a woman utter those words.
(25:03):
It's a byproduct, and directlythey're teaching that because of
how they're teaching them how tobehave.
But is this something you'vewitnessed, or how do you know
this?
SPEAKER_04 (25:11):
Yes, I have well personally I haven't experienced
it, but I've witnessed it andI've met people that have
experienced it.
I have um I have a very closefriend, and his mother recently,
I guess she kind of exposed thisside of her, but he came across
with a white girlfriend, and youknow, you could see how his
mother reacted instantly.
(25:32):
Like she had no interest inmeeting the girl, no interest in
talking to her.
She was she had this mindsetwhere she was like, I can't be
racist because I'm black.
Like she would be saying likethe most borderline racist
things, but there's this mindsetwhere you're black, you're a
minority, you can't be racistbecause you're already suffering
from it, so you can't be racist.
SPEAKER_05 (25:53):
So there's some truth to that.
Uh, when people say I can't be aracist because I'm black, the
reason they say that maybe shedidn't explain it the right way,
but the reason they say that isbecause when you're a racist and
you're a racist white person,you have influence.
You're a college professor, youcould decide whether or not I
get admitted to the school.
You look at my name, and my nameis an obvious black name, for
example.
You could look at it and belike, Well, no, the LaShawn is
(26:14):
not coming here, and you know,and you're an employer, and that
name goes at the bottom of thepile or straight in the trash,
right?
That resume doesn't get seen fora fact.
My generation, Zola'sgeneration, we named our kids,
and that's something we have tobe conscious of in a way that
when that name appears on theresume, they can't tell right
(26:34):
away that that kid is black.
There's a reason we do that,because we understand that other
people have an influence on us,not in a way that we are seeing
ourselves, but in a way thatwe're whether we are able to
live there, work there, be in acertain place.
When we bought this house, forinstance, it's one of those
things where they basicallysaid, Well, you don't have to
disclose the fact that you knowwhat your ethnicity is, and we
(26:57):
decided not to.
And then they said, We need topicture your license.
How you get around that shit?
Right?
Because we understand theneighborhood, we understand what
it's like, and we had to pay theblack tax, and we paid heavy.
We bought it three years ago.
This is 2022.
This is recent.
This is not 1987.
This is recent.
This is something we deal with.
We know for a fact that whenthere are documents that go to a
(27:20):
bank, the way we are treated.
So when someone says I can't beracist, it means that I can't,
as a people, influence you in anegative way.
So I may not like you, says surethere's prejudice there, but
racism in itself, and and maybejust more my my opinion than
fact, right?
But racism itself has animplication of being able to
(27:40):
stifle your growth or preventyou from doing certain things,
living certain places, havingcertain things, and white black
folks don't have that power overwhite people.
They have it on us.
SPEAKER_04 (27:51):
Yeah, but you also can't forget that there's also
the fact that there's hatred inracism as well.
True.
If there's a sense of hatredbecause of your race, that's
also racism.
SPEAKER_05 (28:01):
But we think that hatred comes from black people
in general, throughout history,have not invaded Europe, Asia,
the Americas.
The hatred comes from the factthat there's oppression.
It's almost a reaction to anaction.
Of course.
To this day, I don't hate acertain anyone, but there's a
certain anger that will arisewhen someone does me wrong.
(28:24):
You know, when I get pulled overand there's a way I'm treated,
even though I'm a 50-year-oldgrown man, I have to feel like
my dignity is taken from mebecause the way I get pulled out
of the vehicle and the way Ihave to sit on the curb doesn't
matter what I'm wearing.
I could be in a suit, doesn'tmatter.
There's a way I'm being treatedby this 24-year-old guy in
Mississippi with his gun out.
When I get back in my car,because obviously I made it,
(28:46):
because here I am, right?
Because it could have been adifferent story if I decided I
was gonna stand up to that.
And I didn't.
But when I get back in my car, Ican't help but feel animosity
towards that person.
And in my head at that time, I'mthinking about they're all like
that.
And I gotta remember my boyDylan, who's cool as fuck, and
that's not him, right?
(29:06):
So it's I know this more nurturethan nature because racism and
hate is taught.
It's not something that you'reborn with.
I get that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (29:14):
But it's been taught to a lot of these motherfuckers.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (29:17):
Yeah, but that's that's when you just have to
pick apart the programming andthen just I guess direct that
dislike towards that person andnot the collective, because then
the rage is valid.
SPEAKER_06 (29:28):
I'm not the rage is totally valid.
It's overly valid.
But also what I'm saying is totie it all back, because we kind
of went on a tangent a littlebit, but to tie it all back to
the beginning of being seen andfeeling valued.
Where does that young man feelseen by the right people?
How does that man see any valuein himself if he's just part of
(29:51):
an oppressed group?
That's all that he knows.
It's his character, it's hispersonality, it's what he's
always going to be, that's whathe's always going to do, that's
how he's gonna walk and talk andaddress everything and react.
And live and it makes no sense.
Eventually, you have to againyou give the knowledge so that
that boy is not oblivious.
You don't want him walkingaround like, oh no, I feel white
today.
You don't want him saying that.
(30:11):
But at the same time, who areyou outside of that?
What do you want to actuallyshow people?
What do you want to represent?
How do you want to lead yourfamily?
What type of son, brother, dad,worker, anything that you want
to be?
And it's not always going to betied to that oppression.
Sometimes it's just you being agood dude, you being a solid
dude, you being a smart dude,like those type of things.
(30:34):
So as far as what you're tyingit back to social media too,
what they're showing.
They're seeking their value frompeople that I mean, I I don't
even understand it.
I really don't understand it.
We're not taught.
It's getting worse and worse.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
We're not taught to really value ourselves.
We're taught to value what wewere taught to show off.
SPEAKER_06 (30:51):
Trends.
Everybody's wearing jorts.
We're back on jorts.
So if you don't have jorts,you're not cool.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
That's not coming back, is it?
It is.
It is actually.
SPEAKER_06 (31:00):
And it's like the worst thing.
What's the jort?
Exactly.
Jean shorts.
They like flare.
It's awful.
SPEAKER_05 (31:10):
Last thing I'll touch on is the Black Father
absentee myth.
It's not entirely a myth becauseit happens, but it happens in
every community.
I think what happens, it isweaponized when it happens in
our community.
SPEAKER_04 (31:23):
It's just different.
SPEAKER_05 (31:24):
How do you mean?
SPEAKER_04 (31:25):
When it happens in our community, I feel like it
has a different um impact, I'llsay.
Obviously, because of how we'realready portrayed, doesn't
really help.
What we're taught doesn't reallyhelp.
What we've suffered from doesn'treally help.
Right.
But it's just different in ourcommunity.
So it's obviously gonna be blownup, like you're saying.
It's gonna be shown differently.
(31:46):
But I think when you see inHispanic communities, even if
the father isn't there, they gotten damn uncles that can play
father.
They're all together.
You see any type of Hispaniccommunity, they all roll in up
together.
You see any type of Asiancommunity, they all stick
together.
It's just different with blackcommunities.
We don't have a strong base ofcommunity.
(32:06):
That's the difference.
SPEAKER_05 (32:07):
Which goes against everything that is predominantly
and inherently African.
It's actually the oppositebecause if there's one group of
people on the planet that has astrong sense of community, it's
people from that continent.
SPEAKER_04 (32:20):
That's what that's what we need to go back to, I
guess.
Go back to the motherland.
Here we lost it.
SPEAKER_06 (32:24):
In our community, too.
I can't speak for another one,but I would say in our
community, I like it's not justthe absent dad.
I think it's all the absent dadand the mom that stays go hand
in hand.
There's already so much rage inour community.
And then when that separationhappens and the dad ducks off,
or he's like, he's alive, butnot technically, because he's
not present at all.
(32:45):
In that situation, it's the momthat stays also plays in part
too in the children.
Because now you have this personthat is basically raising
children by herself against herwill.
And so it's not always the dad,the absent dad, that does damage
on the young men, too.
Sometimes it is the mom thatstays and raises them.
So I don't want to just put allthe blame on the absent dad.
I mean, he's obviously a pieceof shit, but like we also need
(33:05):
to tie into the mom that'sstaying because the absent dad
is only gonna do so much.
All he's probably gonna do iscause some type of abandonment
issues.
But everything else that thatyoung man is comes from the
mother and everybody else thatwas in her surroundings.
SPEAKER_05 (33:22):
There's a distinction between absent and
non-resident.
Right.
I was a non-resident dad to you.
I didn't live in the same housebecause your mom and I divorced.
SPEAKER_06 (33:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (33:31):
I wouldn't qualify myself as an absent father.
SPEAKER_06 (33:33):
I wouldn't either.
SPEAKER_05 (33:34):
So that's not at all.
So that's not the same thing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (33:38):
I was just looking up a quick comparison here.
Black fathers who arenon-resident, 30% of them are
still very much active ineveryday activities, right?
Even just down to doing homeworkwith the child and being part of
everything, right?
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (33:55):
That's actually higher than a lot of the other
communities.
It's 20% in the whitedemographic.
But that's not going to gethighlighted.
SPEAKER_06 (34:01):
Not at all.
SPEAKER_05 (34:02):
You see my point?
But yeah, we could do this allday.
So we got I I I know we took ahell of a left.
SPEAKER_06 (34:07):
I love you, black man.
I promise you.
I promise you.
I want y'all to be so great.
You're amazing to me, I promise.
SPEAKER_05 (34:14):
To get back to where we're talking about, do you
think social media, which by theway, it's unfortunate, but we
can't have almost anyconversation these days and not
talk about it because socialmedia is literally part.
It's it's interwoven into everyaspect of our lives, whether or
not you want it to be.
For example, Kiki's not onsocial media, and it doesn't
matter because the second hehits a certain level of success,
(34:37):
his team will put him on socialmedia.
He doesn't have to be, but hebecomes the brand.
SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (34:41):
So it's not like you can be on it.
You know, I was listening to apodcast the other day, Todd
Peterson, who created Vivant,who's a multi-billionaire.
He's like, I've never usedsocial media.
I'm not on it.
And that's good.
But the brand is, everything hedoes is because he's all right.
SPEAKER_06 (34:56):
All over social media.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (34:57):
You know, if you Google him, he's all over the
place.
Yeah.
But him personally, he doesn'thave it.
He doesn't check it, doesn'tknow what's going on, which is a
good thing.
SPEAKER_02 (35:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (35:05):
Um, so we can't escape the conversation of
social media and how what partit plays in our lives.
So do you think that socialmedia rewards authenticity or
performance?
Performance.
Performance.
Damn.
All right.
I was unanimous.
SPEAKER_06 (35:17):
Performance.
Really?
Yes.
And it's weird because therewill be someone or a group of
people that will be authenticand then it gets copied, and
then all of a sudden it's a newwave and it's a new trend.
So you don't know who's reallyliving like that for real and
who's putting on for a 30-secondreel.
Within 72 hours, it's no longerauthentic.
(35:39):
So it's just performance-based.
SPEAKER_05 (35:41):
And what's the emotional cost of that?
I mean, I know you're notpsychologists, but what's the
emotional cost of having toperform all the time?
SPEAKER_06 (35:48):
I have no idea.
I literally have three posts onmy face.
SPEAKER_05 (35:52):
Good for you.
SPEAKER_06 (35:53):
It's the same one.
And usually it's going to be ifI add anything else, it's
because I went and did anotherphoto shoot with my girls.
I post and then it's gone.
Like I don't, you have no ideawhat's going on.
And then I just post stuffthat's funny, or if I agree.
Now it's like everything thatyou post is your real life.
It's it's you're standing behindthat one statement.
(36:13):
It's like, remember when socialmedia used to be funny?
We all used to get on here.
SPEAKER_05 (36:16):
Oh, fun, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (36:17):
Yeah, and like post random songs that we were
feeling.
SPEAKER_05 (36:20):
All my algorithm is.
I mean, I just be cracking.
SPEAKER_06 (36:24):
Not everything is so serious.
Everybody wants to fight in thecomments.
Like, you guys, hello.
We're this is not real life.
If your phone dies right now,you're no longer a part of the
argument.
Seriously.
You hit the wrong turn, you comeout here to the property, that's
it.
Who cares what I was fightingabout past the gate?
Because I home have service.
So it doesn't make sense.
Like, I don't know.
(36:44):
It's all performance though.
And I don't know what it does toyour mental, but it's like
you're always trying to playcatch up.
You're always trying to likeeither be with the wave or start
a new program.
SPEAKER_05 (36:54):
Julian, do you find that you perform at all, being
totally honest?
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
I don't suppose either.
And if he does, it's like theweirdest random thing.
I can go by what I see.
And again, it could be fakebecause it's social media at the
end of the day.
But you hear a lot of creatorson social media when they're
seeking instant gratification,they're slowly losing
themselves.
They're not, again, valuing.
You're just you're losingyourself.
You're not proud really of whatyou are.
(37:19):
You're just proud of thereaction you get, how many likes
you get on an Instagram post,how many people comment under
your post, how many shares,reposts, how many people are
gonna see what this is.
But people don't care about howyou got there or how you feel
behind the scenes.
You're the one that's takingthat toll because you're trying
to put on a persona on socialmedia that's not even you.
(37:40):
So where's your value in that?
SPEAKER_05 (37:42):
Yeah.
It's hard to even be presentfrom what I see.
Like I'll watch a concert andI'll watch people be at a
concert, for example, andeveryone from like the first 10,
20 rows, have their phone app.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
Crazy.
SPEAKER_05 (37:53):
You were just you can't even be present.
SPEAKER_06 (37:54):
I just went to a concert, you guys.
Right.
And I got I tried so hard.
I think I got like two or threegood videos, but the rest of my
videos, I swear it was likesomeone put you in the dryer.
You you the video's awful.
I was full on dancing, right?
Swaying the phone everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
Because you're in the mood.
SPEAKER_06 (38:11):
Because I was having such a good time.
Finally, I was like, this isridiculous.
I don't know what I'm recordingthis for because I'm not gonna
be able to watch it back.
And the only person I can hearsinging is me because I'm losing
it.
Right.
So this doesn't make sense.
I know no, I can watch it on theinternet tomorrow.
Yeah, I don't have to record anyof this because I can get these
same videos back tomorrow.
SPEAKER_05 (38:27):
But how many people did you see on their phones?
SPEAKER_06 (38:29):
Everybody, everybody.
SPEAKER_05 (38:29):
Yeah, it used to be like even with the Haitian music
scene, you know, you go watchthis band perform and people
would dance.
That's done with.
SPEAKER_06 (38:38):
Dancing is crazy now.
SPEAKER_05 (38:39):
Dancing is over.
It's like the band isperforming.
Yeah, I haven't been in one ofthose things in forever.
And the other day, because Ihave friends in the industry,
someone invited me to go out.
So my friends were alsomusicians.
We showed up, we were justchilling in the little because I
didn't want to be with thecrowd.
Because I thought they weregonna dance and just bounce
around.
So I was like, put me in thesection where no one's dancing
bump into me, right?
(39:00):
So I'm back up there.
I'm just like checking out theband.
Um, and I swear to God, it waslike the first 30 deep in front
of this band.
It was just nothing but womenwith their phones up and a bunch
of guys who were just also withtheir phones, just holding it.
And not a single person waslike, Hey, do you want to dance
to this young lady?
Because it's dancing music.
(39:20):
This this is not yeah, this iscompound music.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I'm not feeling nothing.
You're just gonna stand it, butit's it's true.
No one is present, right?
And it's all about theperformance.
SPEAKER_06 (39:30):
You weren't there if you can't show that you were
there.
SPEAKER_05 (39:31):
Correct.
SPEAKER_06 (39:32):
Everybody asked me, they were like, Where are your
pictures for the like for youroutfit for the concert?
And it was like, um, my outfitwas cute, but like I didn't
remember.
And they're just like, What?
You went and you bought a cuteoutfit and you didn't take any
pictures and you didn't recordmuch, and it's like Yeah, are
you okay?
I've literally waited, I don'tknow, 20 years to go to this one
concert.
I could care less what I waswearing.
(39:53):
I only put on nice clothesbecause I was going with people
that were wearing nice clothes.
I figured I didn't want to looklike I'm going to the gym.
SPEAKER_05 (39:59):
You don't want to be in your usual.
SPEAKER_06 (40:00):
Yeah.
So I put on like a nice shirt.
Sure.
But like I'm not gonna go andpose and stand on the side of
the concert not be payingattention so that you can see my
outfit so I can prove to youthat I was there.
I know I was there, I bought thetickets.
It is what it is.
SPEAKER_05 (40:14):
Yeah.
Did your family teach you thevalue of humility or
presentation?
SPEAKER_06 (40:20):
I'd say both.
Yeah, I think I got 50-50.
SPEAKER_01 (40:23):
Repeat the question one more time for me.
SPEAKER_05 (40:25):
Did your family, your parents, did this teach you
to value humility orpresentation more?
Honestly, one from each parent.
SPEAKER_06 (40:32):
Literally, I think it's pretty 50-50 on that one.
I was trying to keep it cute.
Present yourself a certain way,but also make sure everything's
matching, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (40:42):
All right.
Is there something you wisholder generations understood
about the way you presentyourselves both online and in
real life?
SPEAKER_06 (40:52):
Me personally or as the generation?
SPEAKER_05 (40:54):
Three of you specifically.
SPEAKER_06 (40:55):
Oh, um, no.
I don't think I I have enoughriff-raff going on on my if I
mean if my page is botheringyou, something's very wrong.
The only thing I need you tounderstand is mind your
business.
Because there's literallythere's literally nothing going
on, there's no tea.
So I don't know.
Um, I guess just give moregrace, but also don't entertain
(41:16):
it.
I don't know how we all becamelike one group.
We're not one group.
The elders need to be theelders.
You're not a kid.
You are to lead, be an example.
So you can't be on therecommenting under the shade room,
being an idiot, arguing with abunch of kids, and then when
some little well, some20-year-old girl is on there
with a string on, and then youwant to condemn her.
You're you're no better becauseyou can't fit the string.
(41:38):
You still have a childlikementality.
So the only thing that I wouldsay is don't be a hypocrite and
give grace.
Act like what you want to see.
That's all.
All right.
But if you want a boring page,follow me.
If you want a boring page, youwant to see people with clothes,
night at Carsell.
SPEAKER_05 (41:55):
There you go.
What about you too?
Is that something you wish theolder generation, maybe your
parents, but maybe anyone inyour environment in general,
understood about the way youpresent yourself?
SPEAKER_04 (42:03):
Really?
No.
I don't really have any problemsor quarrels with the older
generation.
I feel like I understand themfor the most part.
They understand me.
The only thing is, it seems likemy silence bothers them for some
reason.
unknown (42:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (42:18):
I guess I don't know what it is.
They mistake it for something.
I don't really know what it is,but there have been a few of the
older generation that I haven'tgone along with just because
they misread my silence.
SPEAKER_05 (42:29):
Felt.
I don't even understand theissue.
SPEAKER_06 (42:32):
People are mad when you don't speak when they want
you to speak.
SPEAKER_05 (42:36):
I mean, he walks in the room, he says hello.
Of course.
I'm not rude.
Right, so that's what I'msaying.
Like, if you didn't you ain'tthe same way with you too
growing up, though.
SPEAKER_06 (42:44):
Like he never wants to be a part of the party.
He never wants to come sit overhere and hang out with the
adults.
He's always somewhere with thekids.
Like it's like, who are youguys?
It's fine.
SPEAKER_03 (42:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (42:51):
We're all here hanging out at the same place.
And I'm just an observer.
And I really am not interestedin your conversation, if I'm
being honest.
I don't really see a place forme there.
So let me just sit and vibe.
SPEAKER_04 (43:01):
But there are even people like who have wanted a
reaction out of me.
They wanted to get a reactionout of me.
And I'm just not that type ofperson.
So it's just like I wish theywould understand that because
then they go and make anassumption and they take it out
of context and then they maketheir own belief.
And then that's where it's justlike, come on, man.
You can't have less control thana 20-year-old.
SPEAKER_06 (43:22):
Get him, Kiki.
Leave my boy alone, he said.
SPEAKER_01 (43:28):
For me, it's just I'm never doing something for
instant gratification.
I'm not doing anything for you.
So if that's what you'reassuming based off what I if I
do show off, which I have noreason to, but if I'm showing
something like it's not for youper se, I value what I have, and
if I feel like presenting myselfin a way for you to judge in a
(43:52):
way.
So don't think I'm like seekinga reaction, I guess.
And I'm just doing it for me,what you think has no benefit
towards me.
It's not gonna affect me in anegative way.
I'm just doing it to do it.
You're not seeking validation.
I'm not seeking validation, no.
If anything, I validate myself.
Was there showing off in yourgeneration while you were
(44:12):
growing up?
Even without the internet.
How how was that?
Like what was the differencebetween then and now, you know,
without social media?
Yeah, it was just harder.
SPEAKER_05 (44:21):
Stone really had to ride their dinosaurs to the next
block.
Yeah, so write poetry andlegends to each other.
SPEAKER_06 (44:30):
The Georgia Tim's combo.
SPEAKER_05 (44:32):
Send the pigeons.
Yeah.
So we used the chisel to writeon stone.
Um, that's how it all started.
That's tragic.
We got them.
And fire was yet to bediscovered.
SPEAKER_06 (44:44):
They were just using their breath.
unknown (44:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (44:48):
So we yeah, just hunting and eight.
That's it.
Um, but yeah, to answer yourquestion, the way we did it was
just it was just the same thing.
And people are people, yeah.
What social media did, and itwasn't as bad.
I'll say that.
It wasn't nearly as bad.
You see less lost people in mygeneration.
SPEAKER_06 (45:04):
There was still shame.
SPEAKER_05 (45:05):
Yeah, and they were less lost because they weren't,
and I I believe Kiki said thisagain on the last podcast.
He said, you know, comparison isa thief of joy.
Well, that's what it was.
So if I saw a few people, youknow, you're kind of comparing
yourself to these people, andsome of us were better at not
doing that, so we weren't tooinfluenced by it.
unknown (45:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (45:25):
But my my view was limited to where I was in my
area.
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (45:30):
I didn't get to see, I'm 25, for example.
I don't get to see a 20-year-oldwith a money spread.
Because where are you gonnayou're where are you gonna see
that?
You know, you would have toemail it to me at some point.
SPEAKER_06 (45:41):
At that point, it's like, what's going on?
SPEAKER_05 (45:43):
It's like, what do you who are you?
Like, what's going on?
Um, so there wasn't a whole lotto see that didn't make sense.
SPEAKER_02 (45:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (45:50):
When something happened, yes, maybe someone was
going out of their way to showoff, but very little was faked.
You still had to pay this bill,you still had to do things, and
if you were going somewhere,you're doing your best.
There are people that went outof their way to buy a nice car
because when they were gonna besomewhere, they needed the nice
car to represent how well theywere doing.
Right.
(46:10):
That might be the extent of it.
Maybe you wear certain clothes,name brands, and things like
that.
And we all at some point fellvictim to it.
At some point, there was a timewhere it mattered to me that I
had this particular brand ofclothes on.
It was totally innocent andbenign compared to what you guys
have to deal with and the wayyou're exposed to the world and
the nonsense that you have tosee.
SPEAKER_06 (46:29):
Okay, we're gonna touch on it real quick.
Celebrities and politicians werecelebrities and politicians back
then.
Now, everybody's an influencer.
Every single person is aninfluencer.
It'll be somebody with 10K, theyget on there, you went to high
school with them, you know themin real life, and now here they
are influencing a bunch ofyounger people, and people are
(46:50):
taking like everything they sayface value.
Like that, that is not someonethey have no idea.
They're living life for thefirst time, they're just as
young as you, they're trying,but again, it's the same person
that's watching you're watchingthem wake up and you're watching
them drive out of their garage.
Like, you know that there's aclip where they had to take off
running back up the driveway andget that whole setup and like
(47:15):
wait for their neighbors to go.
Because God forbid there'ssomebody walking their dog.
Now they're involved, so youhave to do it again.
So now they're running up anddown the driveway.
You're not thinking about likethe realness of this.
SPEAKER_05 (47:25):
What it took for that to happen.
Yeah, you don't have a teamfollowing you around.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (47:29):
Right.
So I think it's just the worldsare blending.
Everybody feels like, oh, if Ijust post the right amount of
stuff, if I just fake it enough,I'll make it because everybody
can reach celebrity statusovernight.
It could be one insane viralvideo, one anything, and now
you're popping.
And for whatever reason, peopleare paying to come watch you do
whatever you do.
SPEAKER_05 (47:49):
Yeah, everyone's looking for life hack, I think,
and they're looking for ashortcut.
SPEAKER_04 (47:53):
It's weird.
One of the craziest things forme is Kobe Lame.
You you know Kobe Lame?
SPEAKER_01 (47:57):
He didn't say a word.
He would just put he would watcha video that was so stupid.
He would reenact the video, doit the right way, and just put
his hands out in front of him.
He was the most followedTikToker.
Yeah, I think he still is.
He's trying to put his handsout.
SPEAKER_04 (48:11):
The amount of brand deals, the opportunities he got
just for just saying how is thateven influenced?
SPEAKER_05 (48:17):
And you know, I was like, It's not.
SPEAKER_06 (48:18):
That's the thing.
Everybody's influenced byeverything.
SPEAKER_05 (48:20):
All he was saying was, I'm pointing out the
obvious about how absurd thisthing is.
There was some brilliance to it.
What he was doing, he was takingthe internet, he was taking all
these reels, he was saying, Thisis the stupidest thing I've ever
seen.
There it is.
Right.
And then he was pointing it out.
So he actually, you know, hisclaim to fame was, I'm going to
show you how stupid the internetis in social media, and there it
(48:43):
was.
SPEAKER_06 (48:44):
But there's the other side to it.
So people would be even morestupid so that they can end up
on his page.
SPEAKER_05 (48:48):
No way.
SPEAKER_06 (48:49):
So now we have more stupid, him influencing more
people, and it's just the circleof stupid.
It makes no sense.
But all of these people areinfluencing.
SPEAKER_05 (48:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (48:58):
The stupid video makers and him with his hands.
That's insane.
SPEAKER_05 (49:02):
Yeah.
No, this was a good discussion,man.
So uh we're going to read theoutro notes.
So this, so you have to read theoutro doing uh a celebrity
impression.
I need, I need the keep in mind,keep in mind that it's it's
supposed to be a bad impression.
You're not supposed to be goodat this, so don't stress it.
SPEAKER_06 (49:19):
You're supposed to- Wow, where was that?
Where was that?
SPEAKER_05 (49:21):
That's just well, you know, you're like you follow
the show, and you know that'sexactly what I've been saying
since day one.
I didn't think I needed to giveyou instructions, you needed to
hear it.
SPEAKER_06 (49:28):
I was stressed.
SPEAKER_05 (49:30):
I will be Sean Paul today.
SPEAKER_04 (49:31):
Let's do it, man.
Please support us by followingthe Bumbo Clare show.
Leave us a five-star review onApple Podcast.
Thank you so much for listening.
We'll catch you on the next weekwhen we share conversations
surrounding real issues we dealwith every day.
Manhood Matters, we're out.
You hear a lot of creators on social media when
they're seeking instantgratification, they're slowly
losing themselves.
You're not proud really of whatyou are.
You're just proud of thereaction you get, how many likes
you get on an Instagram post,how many people comment on your
post, how many shares reposts,how many people are gonna see
what this is.
But people don't care about howyou got there or how you feel
(00:23):
behind the scenes.
You're the one that's takingthat toll because you're trying
to put a persona on social mediathat's not even you.
So where is your value?
SPEAKER_05 (00:31):
Thank you for joining us for this amazing
conversation.
Today we are talking about beingseen, whether it be on social
media or at work, as opposed tobeing valued, truly being
appreciated for who you are,showing up as your authentic
self.
And if I were to ask you whichone matters more, the answer
(00:53):
seems obvious, but is it really?
And today we're having aconversation with two young men
in their 20s, my son and mynephew, and my daughter who is
27, asking them to considerwhat's more important to them,
to their community, whether itbe on social media or in real
life, what impact this has ontheir psyche, on their mental
(01:17):
health, and how they plan tonavigate through all of it.
But this is also for us, youknow, the millennials, the Gen
X.
We're not immune to any of it,we're impacted by it as well.
And if you're not alreadyfollowing the show, hit that
follow button and please shareit with at least one person.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
(01:37):
Let's get to it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
In the living room, find this voice, forced all
together, making a choice, takea life, great new shit with a
coke, black man teach you wherethe keynote sponsor, physical
strife, hustle, heart, the pulseof life, race, love, and the
entrepreneurs, cryo toe, echoes,and find time, experts and
friends, powerful blend,tackling issues that never end
(02:01):
from our perspective.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
What does being seen mean to you personally?
Okay, the first thing that popsinto my head, immediately I
think of social media.
Because nowadays, the term Ifeel like being seen means just
putting yourself out there, notin the way of like putting
yourself in the middle of acrowd, but as in you just want
people to see what you're doing,just wanting to be a part of
(02:23):
something.
SPEAKER_05 (02:24):
As people struggle well into their 30s, 40s, and
even 50s with identity, who theytruly are.
Being seen is really beingauthentic.
It's being seen in a way that noone else sees you.
Does that resonate with you guysas well?
SPEAKER_06 (02:39):
When I hear you see me or I felt seen, people
knowing the right side of you.
So not what they see on socialmedia and what they hear from
friends or whatever.
It's actually knowing the realyou, your real intention,
knowing your real character,being able to defend you in
rooms that you're not in.
I would more so lean that way.
I wouldn't believe anything Isee on social media anyway.
SPEAKER_05 (03:00):
We know it's hauled.
Maybe not, yeah, maybe not allof it, but like I'm gonna say
easily 90% of it is trash.
And I'm guilty of it.
I catch myself doing things andI do it for social media.
You have no idea how many thingsthat I record, and then I go,
This is not really who I am.
It's silly.
I never post.
This is why it's like there'salmost nothing on my page
because if someone else hasn'tposted for me, it's not
(03:21):
happening because I record itand I go, I feel fake.
I feel funny doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (03:25):
I hope this is the right question to ask, but do
you think we're unintentionallytrying to fit in?
unknown (03:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Because trying to fit in is one thing, but
unintention, like just wantingto be a part of the crowd just
because you feel like that isright in your mind.
SPEAKER_05 (03:36):
So here's the thing: we are a tribal species.
That's what we are.
We do need to belong.
That's what kept us safe andkept us alive all these
millennia.
Right.
For example, if you take peoplewho are extreme right or extreme
left, okay, you can pluck anyone of them out of the crowd and
you'll find that you have morein common with that person that
you disagree with politicallythan you have disagreements
(03:57):
with.
So if you can have theseindividual conversations, things
are very, very different.
But at the end of the day, everyperson wants to belong in a
particular group.
SPEAKER_03 (04:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (04:06):
Most people.
Of course, you have theseunicorns.
You have people just likedoesn't matter what the world
thinks, this is me, this is whoI am.
But that's very, very rare.
Right.
Intentionally or not, I thinkthat it's just human nature.
The question is, what makessense to you and where is where
is the line between you and youjust blending in with everyone
else?
SPEAKER_06 (04:27):
I think it all just comes down to character.
Again, being a good person,making good decisions, right is
right and wrong is wrong.
It doesn't matter really whoyou're affecting, who you have
to lose, what everybody else issaying, you don't always really
need that reinsurance or the egoboost.
You just, again, you just needto be solid.
Your foundation needs to staythe same.
But I think sometimes where weget losses, we're just so
(04:47):
focused on being seen but by thewrong people.
We're wanting to get those wordsof affirmations from people that
don't matter, people that wedon't want to be like, people
that don't inspire us.
SPEAKER_05 (04:57):
So how do you guys at your age determine who those
people are that matter or thatshould matter to you?
SPEAKER_06 (05:02):
How do you think reciprocation I think matters?
When I was younger, I was justtrying to pour, pour, pour.
And it I think everyrelationship is meant to be
beneficial for both parties.
You sometimes will try to beselfless and you still can be,
but at the same time, you don'twant to pour from an empty cup.
So you want to one, always makesure that everything you're
(05:23):
pouring into the people in yourcircle is overflow.
But outside of that, you want tomake sure that you're putting
fire into someone that's puttingfire back into you.
So those are the only peoplethat really matter are the
people that add to yourhappiness, add value.
They don't keep taking andtaking and taking, and then you
still give them a voice in whatyou're doing and considering
them and feeling seen.
SPEAKER_05 (05:44):
Maybe this is kind of a new term.
Shining.
What comes to mind when you hearthat?
Is it confidence or is itshowing off?
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
My mind keeps going back.
That's uh social media.
I keep going back to thatbecause people keep posting like
their cars, their house, alltheir money, they'll have it all
on the table spread out.
Money spread.
Money spread.
Is shining supposed to be likewhat like flexing?
Yeah.
Flexing, basically, yeah.
Okay.
We can say flexing instead.
Okay.
(06:12):
Yeah, I think it's just likejust showing what you currently
have, but not how you got there.
SPEAKER_05 (06:18):
Would that be important to you if someone is
going to show what they have,that they show how they got
there?
Maybe it's kind of like aroadmap in case you want to
attempt the same thing.
SPEAKER_04 (06:28):
I don't think you're necessarily obliged to.
And you're free to show whateveryou want, but I just think a
sense of humbleness isimportant.
SPEAKER_06 (06:36):
I also think you're damned if you do and damned if
you don't, right?
Because if you're flexing andyou're online and you're showing
everybody your business, andit's like, oh my God, they're
they show every little thing.
It's like, oh wow.
But then if you're justconfident and you're proud of
yourself, and that's just yourlifestyle and you're just
sharing it because it's socialmedia and that's what you do,
people are like, oh, they'reshowing off.
They don't have to see everybag, we don't have to see every
(06:57):
date they go on, we don't haveto see all their achievements.
And it's like, why not?
So you don't you can tell whensomebody's doing too much and
when somebody is just proud oftheir success and showing their
progress.
There are some people that havetheir pictures from when they
were in middle school all theway through like marriage and
kids.
They're showing it all.
So if it's gotten better forthem, they're not necessarily
shining or flexing or whatever,but those people get spoken
(07:19):
about too, and it's alwaysgrouped into the same thing and
they're showing off.
SPEAKER_05 (07:22):
So two things for me.
I talked to a young man theother day, and he basically said
that he uses Instagram as hisphoto album.
That's where all his personalstuff goes.
He has a business page, he's onLinkedIn, but on Instagram, he's
like, it's like a cloud thatI'll have all my pictures
forever.
I'm not sure how safe and truethat is, but that's the that's
what he's using it for.
If someone is posting and theyare, even if the intention is
(07:46):
not to show off, but if they'reshowing what they possess, the
lifestyle, things that are notaccessible to just about
everyone.
Maybe you're having dinner at afancy restaurant, you're
traveling, you're travelingfirst class, and you're showing
that, and your intention is notto show it off.
But if my intention is I'mtrying to create a brand and
maybe I have a following, I makemoney from this thing, and it
(08:09):
helps to show these things, andthat makes sense to me.
But if that's not the goal, ifyou're just, you know, say you
have money from real estate andyou're not trying to put
together a a class or you're notselling an e-book or nothing
like that.
You're just showing that youdrive a very expensive car, live
in a nice place, have theseawesome trips.
If there's no point to it, Ikind of think it's a little
(08:31):
weird.
SPEAKER_06 (08:32):
It can be, but then again, I think perception's
important, right?
Because it depends on yoursurrounding.
If your following also has fancycars and also has nice houses
and also lunches at places wherelunch and a drink is 75 bucks
and it's no big deal, and theydo that all the time.
Nobody's gonna see your post andbe like, there he goes again
with that same loud car.
Because they have a loud cartoo, and they're also posting it
(08:54):
and they're not impressed.
It's just regular.
So it's when you have a mix offriends and a mix of influence
that now you're kind of notinsecure, but just hesitant to
post certain things becauseyou're considering the masses.
And that's I also don't thinkthat you should hide what you're
proud of or what you'repassionate about and the things
that you love, your hobbies,what you collect, because there
are people that might not bewhere you're at and will
(09:14):
consider you flexing.
You know when you're flexing,because you're usually lying.
SPEAKER_05 (09:19):
It's really your stuff, it's not a big deal to
show it.
The other thing that I find, ifwe're being totally fair,
because you know I have to takethis back to my own community.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (09:28):
When I see white people posting and showing off,
no one bats an eye.
Exactly.
And I'll give you an example.
Grant Cardone, who's someonethat I admire that has bought
his books, I study his course.
Come to think of it, no one eversays he's showing off when he
talks about nothing but hisprivate jets, you know, how much
money he makes in one deal andand the Rolexes and the
expensive stuff.
(09:48):
No one says he's showing off.
But there are a bunch of youngbrothers and sisters on social
media that when they talk aboutcertain things and he they get
materialistic, then they getattacked that way.
SPEAKER_06 (10:01):
Not impressed by your little car.
And it's like, that is not alittle car.
What is your deal?
SPEAKER_04 (10:05):
We're already grouped into a certain ideology,
so let's try to flex somethingof materialism.
It's gonna seem as eitherignorance or just like focused
on the wrong things, you know.
For if it was someone of adifferent race, it would be seen
as different, you know.
Like you said, it was normal ifuh a wealthy white man were to
(10:28):
flex the things that he has, hisprivate jets, his cars, his
businesses, it's just seen asnormal.
Correct.
His clubs, the clubs that hegoes to.
But it's different for usbecause of the the image that we
have.
SPEAKER_05 (10:40):
Do you think that here in this country, at least,
maybe just everywhere, but atleast in America for sure, being
denied certain things for solong, do you think it plays a
part in that ideology?
SPEAKER_04 (10:52):
Yes, for sure.
We were uh discussing thisrecently, but we've developed as
a culture this distinct victimmentality that just will not
leave for whatever reason.
SPEAKER_06 (11:05):
And there's separation.
SPEAKER_05 (11:07):
Well, again, hang on a second, expound on that a
little bit.
Because I want to touch on that.
What do you mean by that?
She was about to take it away.
SPEAKER_06 (11:14):
I think just the separation of it all, like we're
not against each other.
It's like we can never reallyprogress because we're so just
like nitpicking our community,but our community is like
they're just not beingrealistic.
Stop fighting these tiny, tiny,tiny problems and let's move as
a unit.
And I think that's what's veryfrustrating.
(11:36):
Like, you will sit, like yousaid, in on social media and see
the brothers and the sisters,they're on there being weird
under post and oh, that's howthey got this, or they're doing
this, but they're not with theirkids.
Like, you don't care aboutanybody else's personal life the
way that you do these otherpeople that have money, but it's
only within your community.
Like you're not dragging anyoneelse, you're not talking about
anybody else's family, anybodyelse's parenting style, anybody
(11:57):
else's collector's items.
You don't care.
You only care when it's us.
What frustrates me is theselective rage.
It's not if you're upset aboutit, period, then be upset about
it, period.
If flexing irritates you, thenbe upset, period.
Don't only be upset when it'ssomeone that has a little bit of
melanin.
And that's what's infuriating.
SPEAKER_05 (12:14):
So crabs in a barrel mindset?
SPEAKER_06 (12:16):
Yes.
Yeah.
Like let's go big.
If you're upset, be upset.
If you don't like it and youdon't have a good taste for it,
then it is what it is.
I don't like money spreads onwhite or black men.
Put it in your bank account.
Who walks around with that muchcash?
It's not my thing.
I don't like cars that literallysound like they're about to
explode before they take off.
I don't care who jumps out ofit.
It's not my thing.
Yeah, I'm not gonna only beturned off by it when it's
(12:39):
someone that looks like me.
SPEAKER_03 (12:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (12:41):
My opinion is my opinion.
And it's just it has nothing todo with skin color.
I'm not oblivious to the factthat there is a difference in
skin color and there are thingsthat we've gone through that
they've not gone through.
I understand that, but I don'twant to keep retreating back to
that when it comes to socialmedia and how we value ourselves
and how we speak about ourselvesand just how hard-body we are on
(13:01):
ourselves.
It's a lot of criticism, but noreal direction.
SPEAKER_04 (13:04):
I think that's another thing though.
You can connect that with beingseen and valued for black
people.
You know, that's the reason theypost these things because
they're taught growing up thatthey need to prove a point, they
need to be something, they needto be this.
So then they obviously want tobe seen, they promote themselves
in a certain way, which is whatthey were taught, which is
wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:22):
I think that's that's another thing in the
mindset where they just want tobe valued in a certain way,
which isn't the right way.
They end up losing sight ofwhat's important because they're
taught from such a young agethat they need to
subconsciously.
SPEAKER_06 (13:34):
They're just trying to fit in.
Words of affirmation for everysingle achievement, but from
strangers that are talking aboutyou.
That's where the mind game goeson because you're no you know
you're you're wanting to be seenby people that have no love for
you, don't actually want to seeyou do well.
They're social media people.
They're not real family.
You're not sitting around thetable and like discussing your
(13:54):
goals and stuff with your actualfamily, but you're connecting
online and thinking that yousomewhat have a fan base.
SPEAKER_05 (14:00):
A community.
SPEAKER_06 (14:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (14:02):
I guess I'll push back a little bit.
The level of being put down, thelevel of racism that someone my
age has faced, you haven't seen.
So the battles that I've had to,and it's just by sheer just
exposure, right?
Because experience.
I'm older and that's just justnormal, right?
Not because I was in anyparticular area or whatever,
it's just it's just what it is.
(14:22):
The longer you live, the moreyou'll deal with it, the more
you'll see it.
So it's a little different from20-year-olds like yourselves.
Yes, you're seeing more and moreof it.
And if there was no socialmedia, you might be like, I
don't even think racism exists.
I think it's over.
No, I mean what I'm what I'msaying is keep in mind that your
brother right here didn't knowhe was black until he was about
nine years old.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
You said that on the podcast.
SPEAKER_05 (14:44):
You are not that.
He was nine.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
I was nine.
SPEAKER_05 (14:48):
Eight.
I say that proudly, not the wayyou're taking it.
Here's what I mean by that.
We raised you and we shelteredyou, right?
And we didn't make everythingabout the fact that you're a
black kid versus a white kid.
But I knew as a father, as ablack man, that I need to start
telling you things.
It's unfortunate and it's veryheartbreaking, and it's sad that
I had to start telling you thatat eight.
(15:08):
So the fact that you didn't knowmeans we did a good job up to
that point because you didn'tsee yourself as a black kid.
You just saw yourself as I'mjust a kid, I'm a boy.
And so if I showed you a whitegirl and I said, What's the
difference between you and her?
You'd be like, I'm a boy.
She's a girl.
That's it.
Right?
But you're not thinking thatthis kid is white and I'm black.
And the poorer the community is,the more restrictions there are
(15:32):
on the particular group ofpeople based on resources, etc.
Like you can go into any hood,anywhere in any city and find
food deserts where they don'teven have a supermarket.
I mean, try it.
Go down to like College Park,final publics, final Kroger.
Now go find a bunch of churches,fried chicken.
Go find a liquor store, go finda check cashing place.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (15:53):
Right?
So it happens based onneighborhoods, and that's done
on purpose.
With them, they have to tellthat kid that even earlier.
That kid's gonna learn that he'sblack at three as soon as he can
talk.
But my point is, you weresheltered from it for a while,
and if there was no socialmedia, all of you guys sitting
here would have been exposed toit to some degree, but not a
lot.
(16:13):
Because keep in mind socialmedia is like wildfire.
It makes it worse because itforces people, like I talked
about earlier in tribalism, itforces people to say, I have to
pick a side.
Because I have to defend thosewho look like me or those who
share my ideals.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (16:27):
Right?
So then it's making people moreextreme than they would have
been otherwise.
So my original point, I've dealtwith it, I've been exposed to
it, and I deal with it more andmore, even now.
Whereas with you guys, it'sless.
So my question to you then iswhen you say there's a victim
mentality, when you say there'sa victim mindset, there's truth
(16:48):
to it, but there's for a reason.
unknown (16:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (16:50):
I don't think that black folks in general are
sitting around going, everythingthat happens is because I'm
black.
And again, I'm talking ingeneralizations, I'm not
speaking about the one, yeah,there's one idiot in every race
everywhere, right?
Yeah.
But in general, when somethinghappens, the last thing that I
think about, even though they'veslapped me in my face a million
times with racism, but the lastthing I think about is it's
(17:12):
because I'm black.
But then it becomes evident thatit's be it is because I'm black.
SPEAKER_02 (17:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (17:17):
So how could you blame an entire group of people
or certain demographics?
Let me push right back.
SPEAKER_06 (17:23):
Let's say push right back.
SPEAKER_05 (17:25):
And I'd like to hear from you too about please.
SPEAKER_06 (17:27):
Oh my God, we were having such a chat.
Yes, that's what I was.
SPEAKER_05 (17:30):
Please.
SPEAKER_06 (17:30):
So I think what comes from it too is just I'm
not saying that the victimmentality is something that I
don't understand.
I think that it's very muchfear-based.
And I get that.
All of it, I get it.
It's all trauma-based.
But my thing is when you'reteaching that young man, whether
it be three or nine, it can'tjust be fear them.
(17:51):
It's you against them.
You know, your life is injeopardy at all times.
Also build up that young man'sconfidence.
Also explain to him how powerfulhis history is.
How, like, don't just push whyhe is the way he is and what
he's going to face, and that beit.
Build up that confidence becausethat young man now, yes, is
going to be respectful and putboth his hands on the wheel and
(18:12):
keep a mild temper and put hiswindow all the way down and keep
it cool because he understandsand he was taught that he's a
young black man since he wasthree.
That's fine.
But at the same time, he's notgonna go online when he's living
in a home with nine people, it'sa two-bedroom house, and he's
not really living thatlifestyle.
And he's going out there andparking next to somebody's well
posting a picture next tosomebody else's car, flexing.
(18:33):
So that's what I'm saying.
Like they want to be seen, butseen in the wrong way.
It's there, that confidence isnot there.
So now they're pulling atstrings, now they're making
random music and they're postingwith people they don't know and
taking pictures, dressing inclothes that took their entire
check to buy.
It's a facade.
And it's because that confidenceisn't there, that foundation is
there.
The only thing that they weretaught is fear.
(18:53):
The only thing that they weretaught is trauma.
And it has to grow because nowyou have this grown insecure man
that the only thing he has isfear and rage.
And the only thing he could tieto is the fact that he's black.
SPEAKER_05 (19:05):
You said there's a victim mindset in our community.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:09):
I mean, I won't deny that obviously the racism's
there and we suffered as as arace.
Suffering.
Yes, we are still suffering.
Right.
But it is not as bad as it was.
We still have.
Like the thing is, especiallyyoung black people now.
SPEAKER_05 (19:24):
When?
When you say it's not as bad asit was when.
I'm sorry?
You say when you say it's not asbad as it was in what slavery.
SPEAKER_04 (19:33):
We're going to extremes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (19:35):
We have the same amount of rights in this world.
Right now, in this world, evennow, people That's not true.
Huh?
SPEAKER_05 (19:41):
That's not true.
About the same amount of rights.
So there's something calledredlining that prevents people
from living where they need tolive, and it's systematic.
There's also the fact that blackpeople in this country in 2025,
the right to vote is not aGod-given right.
It's not something we have asthe Constitution.
(20:02):
It was an amendment, and it hasto be voted on every 50 years.
Which means, like by next year,you might not be able to vote if
they vote against it.
What's up, listeners?
I just wanted to jump in herereal quick for a quick
correction.
It's not every 50 years.
So the 15th Amendment, whichgives every person in the United
(20:24):
States the right to voteregardless of race, is in fact a
permanent part of theConstitution.
But we were not considered anentire person, but rather
three-fifths of a person.
So in 1965, Congress passed theVoting Rights Act, but only for
(20:45):
a few years at a time.
So 1965, it had to be reenactedor reauthorized in 1970, then
75, and so on and so forth.
Finally, in 2006, you heard mecorrectly, in 2006, they did not
make it permanent, they extendedit for 25 years.
(21:08):
Which means in 2031, so just sixyears from now, my son, my
nephew, and my daughter, in2031, in their late 20s, will
not have the right to voteunless those protections are
again given.
And it will have everything todo with the Supreme Court, which
government is in place, andwhich way the political winds
(21:31):
blow.
So yeah, we don't have the samerights.
That'd be interesting.
So we don't have the samerights, but go on.
SPEAKER_04 (21:39):
Well, specifically what I was referring to is we
are not gonna walk in the storeand be denied to buy something.
It's not as extreme as it was.
Somebody might look at it ascrazy.
You're right.
SPEAKER_03 (21:51):
Somebody might do that.
SPEAKER_04 (21:52):
Somebody not they might look at it as crazy and be
like, I don't want to sell thisto you.
I don't even want you breathingthe same air I'm breathing, but
I guess.
But the point is what I wassaying is children are being
raised taught that they're lessthan something or someone else.
The problem is, like we all uhdiscussed in uh in the earlier
(22:13):
podcast, was there's um aproblem with fathers, black
fathers not being in thehousehold.
Did you know actually there's athing where mothers like single
mothers will get paid forfathers not being in the
households?
That is a thing.
Yeah.
Do you know basin?
SPEAKER_06 (22:27):
Yes.
You don't think so?
SPEAKER_05 (22:30):
So that is systematic, and that is by
design.
That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_04 (22:34):
So like I agree, we have unfortunate um
circumstances for sure.
For sure.
But the thing is, we're makingit harder on ourselves, which is
where that victim mentalitycomes in.
We're not fighting it how weshould be, we're influencing it
even further and makingourselves even more of a victim.
By doing what?
(22:54):
Just the way that we're raisingthe kids.
Um I'm saying we like I havekids.
No, no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05 (22:59):
I know what you mean.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (23:00):
Like the mothers, they'll they'll teach the
they'll teach young black folksthat men ain't shit.
The fathers ain't shit becausethe dads ain't around.
They'll teach them that whitepeople are superior in a certain
way.
They're like, it just startsfrom there.
We make it seem like they're theenemy, or we have to be afraid
of them, or we're less thanthem, and then they have this
mindset that just keeps spiraland growing in their minds as
they get older and older, andthen they have this fear of
(23:22):
white folks or this hatred ofwhite folks.
Not even just white people, itcould be anybody else.
But it's usually mostly whitepeople.
SPEAKER_06 (23:29):
Teach character-based things like be
slow to anger, still always be ayoung man, be a gentleman.
Your education is important.
Your family will be important.
Be careful with your body, becareful who you start a family
with because you're going tolead a family.
Help them develop in differentways.
Still give them the knowledge,still give them the information.
Don't keep it away from them.
(23:50):
Don't seclude them because youmade it out of a certain area or
whatever.
But at the same time, you don'twant your kid to be ignorant,
but you also want them to haveother things that they're proud
of, other things that they canbuild from.
You want them to start not readyto fight, but just at least
ready to go.
SPEAKER_04 (24:06):
It almost seems like they're raising them for
survival in a world.
Like they're gonna have to hunt.
And obviously, this is a worldwe have to survive.
For sure.
And that it seems like we'restarting this off with nothing
while everybody else has theadvantage.
SPEAKER_06 (24:19):
Head down, chest up.
SPEAKER_05 (24:21):
So earlier you mentioned like if we worked into
a store, it's funny you shouldmention it because the first
thing that came to mind was howOprah was profiled in a store in
Europe.
I forgot which store she was in,some bag store, either I think
um L Mess or uh Louis Vuitton.
I'm gonna pronounce those thingscorrectly, by the way, so I'm
not gonna if it sounds weird,right?
It's because I'm saying itright.
(24:42):
But it happens, it happens tothe best of us.
It happens to, even thoughthere's she was a billionaire.
When it comes to these women,for example, when you talk about
these mothers and what theyteach, I think subconsciously
there is an element to whatyou're saying that's true,
teaching that the white peopleare superior.
But I don't think I've everheard a woman utter those words.
(25:03):
It's a byproduct, and directlythey're teaching that because of
how they're teaching them how tobehave.
But is this something you'vewitnessed, or how do you know
this?
SPEAKER_04 (25:11):
Yes, I have well personally I haven't experienced
it, but I've witnessed it andI've met people that have
experienced it.
I have um I have a very closefriend, and his mother recently,
I guess she kind of exposed thisside of her, but he came across
with a white girlfriend, and youknow, you could see how his
mother reacted instantly.
(25:32):
Like she had no interest inmeeting the girl, no interest in
talking to her.
She was she had this mindsetwhere she was like, I can't be
racist because I'm black.
Like she would be saying likethe most borderline racist
things, but there's this mindsetwhere you're black, you're a
minority, you can't be racistbecause you're already suffering
from it, so you can't be racist.
SPEAKER_05 (25:53):
So there's some truth to that.
Uh, when people say I can't be aracist because I'm black, the
reason they say that maybe shedidn't explain it the right way,
but the reason they say that isbecause when you're a racist and
you're a racist white person,you have influence.
You're a college professor, youcould decide whether or not I
get admitted to the school.
You look at my name, and my nameis an obvious black name, for
example.
You could look at it and belike, Well, no, the LaShawn is
(26:14):
not coming here, and you know,and you're an employer, and that
name goes at the bottom of thepile or straight in the trash,
right?
That resume doesn't get seen fora fact.
My generation, Zola'sgeneration, we named our kids,
and that's something we have tobe conscious of in a way that
when that name appears on theresume, they can't tell right
(26:34):
away that that kid is black.
There's a reason we do that,because we understand that other
people have an influence on us,not in a way that we are seeing
ourselves, but in a way thatwe're whether we are able to
live there, work there, be in acertain place.
When we bought this house, forinstance, it's one of those
things where they basicallysaid, Well, you don't have to
disclose the fact that you knowwhat your ethnicity is, and we
(26:57):
decided not to.
And then they said, We need topicture your license.
How you get around that shit?
Right?
Because we understand theneighborhood, we understand what
it's like, and we had to pay theblack tax, and we paid heavy.
We bought it three years ago.
This is 2022.
This is recent.
This is not 1987.
This is recent.
This is something we deal with.
We know for a fact that whenthere are documents that go to a
(27:20):
bank, the way we are treated.
So when someone says I can't beracist, it means that I can't,
as a people, influence you in anegative way.
So I may not like you, says surethere's prejudice there, but
racism in itself, and and maybejust more my my opinion than
fact, right?
But racism itself has animplication of being able to
(27:40):
stifle your growth or preventyou from doing certain things,
living certain places, havingcertain things, and white black
folks don't have that power overwhite people.
They have it on us.
SPEAKER_04 (27:51):
Yeah, but you also can't forget that there's also
the fact that there's hatred inracism as well.
True.
If there's a sense of hatredbecause of your race, that's
also racism.
SPEAKER_05 (28:01):
But we think that hatred comes from black people
in general, throughout history,have not invaded Europe, Asia,
the Americas.
The hatred comes from the factthat there's oppression.
It's almost a reaction to anaction.
Of course.
To this day, I don't hate acertain anyone, but there's a
certain anger that will arisewhen someone does me wrong.
(28:24):
You know, when I get pulled overand there's a way I'm treated,
even though I'm a 50-year-oldgrown man, I have to feel like
my dignity is taken from mebecause the way I get pulled out
of the vehicle and the way Ihave to sit on the curb doesn't
matter what I'm wearing.
I could be in a suit, doesn'tmatter.
There's a way I'm being treatedby this 24-year-old guy in
Mississippi with his gun out.
When I get back in my car,because obviously I made it,
(28:46):
because here I am, right?
Because it could have been adifferent story if I decided I
was gonna stand up to that.
And I didn't.
But when I get back in my car, Ican't help but feel animosity
towards that person.
And in my head at that time, I'mthinking about they're all like
that.
And I gotta remember my boyDylan, who's cool as fuck, and
that's not him, right?
(29:06):
So it's I know this more nurturethan nature because racism and
hate is taught.
It's not something that you'reborn with.
I get that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (29:14):
But it's been taught to a lot of these motherfuckers.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (29:17):
Yeah, but that's that's when you just have to
pick apart the programming andthen just I guess direct that
dislike towards that person andnot the collective, because then
the rage is valid.
SPEAKER_06 (29:28):
I'm not the rage is totally valid.
It's overly valid.
But also what I'm saying is totie it all back, because we kind
of went on a tangent a littlebit, but to tie it all back to
the beginning of being seen andfeeling valued.
Where does that young man feelseen by the right people?
How does that man see any valuein himself if he's just part of
(29:51):
an oppressed group?
That's all that he knows.
It's his character, it's hispersonality, it's what he's
always going to be, that's whathe's always going to do, that's
how he's gonna walk and talk andaddress everything and react.
And live and it makes no sense.
Eventually, you have to againyou give the knowledge so that
that boy is not oblivious.
You don't want him walkingaround like, oh no, I feel white
today.
You don't want him saying that.
(30:11):
But at the same time, who areyou outside of that?
What do you want to actuallyshow people?
What do you want to represent?
How do you want to lead yourfamily?
What type of son, brother, dad,worker, anything that you want
to be?
And it's not always going to betied to that oppression.
Sometimes it's just you being agood dude, you being a solid
dude, you being a smart dude,like those type of things.
(30:34):
So as far as what you're tyingit back to social media too,
what they're showing.
They're seeking their value frompeople that I mean, I I don't
even understand it.
I really don't understand it.
We're not taught.
It's getting worse and worse.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
We're not taught to really value ourselves.
We're taught to value what wewere taught to show off.
SPEAKER_06 (30:51):
Trends.
Everybody's wearing jorts.
We're back on jorts.
So if you don't have jorts,you're not cool.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
That's not coming back, is it?
It is.
It is actually.
SPEAKER_06 (31:00):
And it's like the worst thing.
What's the jort?
Exactly.
Jean shorts.
They like flare.
It's awful.
SPEAKER_05 (31:10):
Last thing I'll touch on is the Black Father
absentee myth.
It's not entirely a myth becauseit happens, but it happens in
every community.
I think what happens, it isweaponized when it happens in
our community.
SPEAKER_04 (31:23):
It's just different.
SPEAKER_05 (31:24):
How do you mean?
SPEAKER_04 (31:25):
When it happens in our community, I feel like it
has a different um impact, I'llsay.
Obviously, because of how we'realready portrayed, doesn't
really help.
What we're taught doesn't reallyhelp.
What we've suffered from doesn'treally help.
Right.
But it's just different in ourcommunity.
So it's obviously gonna be blownup, like you're saying.
It's gonna be shown differently.
(31:46):
But I think when you see inHispanic communities, even if
the father isn't there, they gotten damn uncles that can play
father.
They're all together.
You see any type of Hispaniccommunity, they all roll in up
together.
You see any type of Asiancommunity, they all stick
together.
It's just different with blackcommunities.
We don't have a strong base ofcommunity.
(32:06):
That's the difference.
SPEAKER_05 (32:07):
Which goes against everything that is predominantly
and inherently African.
It's actually the oppositebecause if there's one group of
people on the planet that has astrong sense of community, it's
people from that continent.
SPEAKER_04 (32:20):
That's what that's what we need to go back to, I
guess.
Go back to the motherland.
Here we lost it.
SPEAKER_06 (32:24):
In our community, too.
I can't speak for another one,but I would say in our
community, I like it's not justthe absent dad.
I think it's all the absent dadand the mom that stays go hand
in hand.
There's already so much rage inour community.
And then when that separationhappens and the dad ducks off,
or he's like, he's alive, butnot technically, because he's
not present at all.
(32:45):
In that situation, it's the momthat stays also plays in part
too in the children.
Because now you have this personthat is basically raising
children by herself against herwill.
And so it's not always the dad,the absent dad, that does damage
on the young men, too.
Sometimes it is the mom thatstays and raises them.
So I don't want to just put allthe blame on the absent dad.
I mean, he's obviously a pieceof shit, but like we also need
(33:05):
to tie into the mom that'sstaying because the absent dad
is only gonna do so much.
All he's probably gonna do iscause some type of abandonment
issues.
But everything else that thatyoung man is comes from the
mother and everybody else thatwas in her surroundings.
SPEAKER_05 (33:22):
There's a distinction between absent and
non-resident.
Right.
I was a non-resident dad to you.
I didn't live in the same housebecause your mom and I divorced.
SPEAKER_06 (33:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (33:31):
I wouldn't qualify myself as an absent father.
SPEAKER_06 (33:33):
I wouldn't either.
SPEAKER_05 (33:34):
So that's not at all.
So that's not the same thing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:38):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (33:38):
I was just looking up a quick comparison here.
Black fathers who arenon-resident, 30% of them are
still very much active ineveryday activities, right?
Even just down to doing homeworkwith the child and being part of
everything, right?
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (33:55):
That's actually higher than a lot of the other
communities.
It's 20% in the whitedemographic.
But that's not going to gethighlighted.
SPEAKER_06 (34:01):
Not at all.
SPEAKER_05 (34:02):
You see my point?
But yeah, we could do this allday.
So we got I I I know we took ahell of a left.
SPEAKER_06 (34:07):
I love you, black man.
I promise you.
I promise you.
I want y'all to be so great.
You're amazing to me, I promise.
SPEAKER_05 (34:14):
To get back to where we're talking about, do you
think social media, which by theway, it's unfortunate, but we
can't have almost anyconversation these days and not
talk about it because socialmedia is literally part.
It's it's interwoven into everyaspect of our lives, whether or
not you want it to be.
For example, Kiki's not onsocial media, and it doesn't
matter because the second hehits a certain level of success,
(34:37):
his team will put him on socialmedia.
He doesn't have to be, but hebecomes the brand.
SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (34:41):
So it's not like you can be on it.
You know, I was listening to apodcast the other day, Todd
Peterson, who created Vivant,who's a multi-billionaire.
He's like, I've never usedsocial media.
I'm not on it.
And that's good.
But the brand is, everything hedoes is because he's all right.
SPEAKER_06 (34:56):
All over social media.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (34:57):
You know, if you Google him, he's all over the
place.
Yeah.
But him personally, he doesn'thave it.
He doesn't check it, doesn'tknow what's going on, which is a
good thing.
SPEAKER_02 (35:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (35:05):
Um, so we can't escape the conversation of
social media and how what partit plays in our lives.
So do you think that socialmedia rewards authenticity or
performance?
Performance.
Performance.
Damn.
All right.
I was unanimous.
SPEAKER_06 (35:17):
Performance.
Really?
Yes.
And it's weird because therewill be someone or a group of
people that will be authenticand then it gets copied, and
then all of a sudden it's a newwave and it's a new trend.
So you don't know who's reallyliving like that for real and
who's putting on for a 30-secondreel.
Within 72 hours, it's no longerauthentic.
(35:39):
So it's just performance-based.
SPEAKER_05 (35:41):
And what's the emotional cost of that?
I mean, I know you're notpsychologists, but what's the
emotional cost of having toperform all the time?
SPEAKER_06 (35:48):
I have no idea.
I literally have three posts onmy face.
SPEAKER_05 (35:52):
Good for you.
SPEAKER_06 (35:53):
It's the same one.
And usually it's going to be ifI add anything else, it's
because I went and did anotherphoto shoot with my girls.
I post and then it's gone.
Like I don't, you have no ideawhat's going on.
And then I just post stuffthat's funny, or if I agree.
Now it's like everything thatyou post is your real life.
It's it's you're standing behindthat one statement.
(36:13):
It's like, remember when socialmedia used to be funny?
We all used to get on here.
SPEAKER_05 (36:16):
Oh, fun, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (36:17):
Yeah, and like post random songs that we were
feeling.
SPEAKER_05 (36:20):
All my algorithm is.
I mean, I just be cracking.
SPEAKER_06 (36:24):
Not everything is so serious.
Everybody wants to fight in thecomments.
Like, you guys, hello.
We're this is not real life.
If your phone dies right now,you're no longer a part of the
argument.
Seriously.
You hit the wrong turn, you comeout here to the property, that's
it.
Who cares what I was fightingabout past the gate?
Because I home have service.
So it doesn't make sense.
Like, I don't know.
(36:44):
It's all performance though.
And I don't know what it does toyour mental, but it's like
you're always trying to playcatch up.
You're always trying to likeeither be with the wave or start
a new program.
SPEAKER_05 (36:54):
Julian, do you find that you perform at all, being
totally honest?
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
I don't suppose either.
And if he does, it's like theweirdest random thing.
I can go by what I see.
And again, it could be fakebecause it's social media at the
end of the day.
But you hear a lot of creatorson social media when they're
seeking instant gratification,they're slowly losing
themselves.
They're not, again, valuing.
You're just you're losingyourself.
You're not proud really of whatyou are.
(37:19):
You're just proud of thereaction you get, how many likes
you get on an Instagram post,how many people comment under
your post, how many shares,reposts, how many people are
gonna see what this is.
But people don't care about howyou got there or how you feel
behind the scenes.
You're the one that's takingthat toll because you're trying
to put on a persona on socialmedia that's not even you.
(37:40):
So where's your value in that?
SPEAKER_05 (37:42):
Yeah.
It's hard to even be presentfrom what I see.
Like I'll watch a concert andI'll watch people be at a
concert, for example, andeveryone from like the first 10,
20 rows, have their phone app.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
Crazy.
SPEAKER_05 (37:53):
You were just you can't even be present.
SPEAKER_06 (37:54):
I just went to a concert, you guys.
Right.
And I got I tried so hard.
I think I got like two or threegood videos, but the rest of my
videos, I swear it was likesomeone put you in the dryer.
You you the video's awful.
I was full on dancing, right?
Swaying the phone everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
Because you're in the mood.
SPEAKER_06 (38:11):
Because I was having such a good time.
Finally, I was like, this isridiculous.
I don't know what I'm recordingthis for because I'm not gonna
be able to watch it back.
And the only person I can hearsinging is me because I'm losing
it.
Right.
So this doesn't make sense.
I know no, I can watch it on theinternet tomorrow.
Yeah, I don't have to record anyof this because I can get these
same videos back tomorrow.
SPEAKER_05 (38:27):
But how many people did you see on their phones?
SPEAKER_06 (38:29):
Everybody, everybody.
SPEAKER_05 (38:29):
Yeah, it used to be like even with the Haitian music
scene, you know, you go watchthis band perform and people
would dance.
That's done with.
SPEAKER_06 (38:38):
Dancing is crazy now.
SPEAKER_05 (38:39):
Dancing is over.
It's like the band isperforming.
Yeah, I haven't been in one ofthose things in forever.
And the other day, because Ihave friends in the industry,
someone invited me to go out.
So my friends were alsomusicians.
We showed up, we were justchilling in the little because I
didn't want to be with thecrowd.
Because I thought they weregonna dance and just bounce
around.
So I was like, put me in thesection where no one's dancing
bump into me, right?
(39:00):
So I'm back up there.
I'm just like checking out theband.
Um, and I swear to God, it waslike the first 30 deep in front
of this band.
It was just nothing but womenwith their phones up and a bunch
of guys who were just also withtheir phones, just holding it.
And not a single person waslike, Hey, do you want to dance
to this young lady?
Because it's dancing music.
(39:20):
This this is not yeah, this iscompound music.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I'm not feeling nothing.
You're just gonna stand it, butit's it's true.
No one is present, right?
And it's all about theperformance.
SPEAKER_06 (39:30):
You weren't there if you can't show that you were
there.
SPEAKER_05 (39:31):
Correct.
SPEAKER_06 (39:32):
Everybody asked me, they were like, Where are your
pictures for the like for youroutfit for the concert?
And it was like, um, my outfitwas cute, but like I didn't
remember.
And they're just like, What?
You went and you bought a cuteoutfit and you didn't take any
pictures and you didn't recordmuch, and it's like Yeah, are
you okay?
I've literally waited, I don'tknow, 20 years to go to this one
concert.
I could care less what I waswearing.
(39:53):
I only put on nice clothesbecause I was going with people
that were wearing nice clothes.
I figured I didn't want to looklike I'm going to the gym.
SPEAKER_05 (39:59):
You don't want to be in your usual.
SPEAKER_06 (40:00):
Yeah.
So I put on like a nice shirt.
Sure.
But like I'm not gonna go andpose and stand on the side of
the concert not be payingattention so that you can see my
outfit so I can prove to youthat I was there.
I know I was there, I bought thetickets.
It is what it is.
SPEAKER_05 (40:14):
Yeah.
Did your family teach you thevalue of humility or
presentation?
SPEAKER_06 (40:20):
I'd say both.
Yeah, I think I got 50-50.
SPEAKER_01 (40:23):
Repeat the question one more time for me.
SPEAKER_05 (40:25):
Did your family, your parents, did this teach you
to value humility orpresentation more?
Honestly, one from each parent.
SPEAKER_06 (40:32):
Literally, I think it's pretty 50-50 on that one.
I was trying to keep it cute.
Present yourself a certain way,but also make sure everything's
matching, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (40:42):
All right.
Is there something you wisholder generations understood
about the way you presentyourselves both online and in
real life?
SPEAKER_06 (40:52):
Me personally or as the generation?
SPEAKER_05 (40:54):
Three of you specifically.
SPEAKER_06 (40:55):
Oh, um, no.
I don't think I I have enoughriff-raff going on on my if I
mean if my page is botheringyou, something's very wrong.
The only thing I need you tounderstand is mind your
business.
Because there's literallythere's literally nothing going
on, there's no tea.
So I don't know.
Um, I guess just give moregrace, but also don't entertain
(41:16):
it.
I don't know how we all becamelike one group.
We're not one group.
The elders need to be theelders.
You're not a kid.
You are to lead, be an example.
So you can't be on therecommenting under the shade room,
being an idiot, arguing with abunch of kids, and then when
some little well, some20-year-old girl is on there
with a string on, and then youwant to condemn her.
You're you're no better becauseyou can't fit the string.
(41:38):
You still have a childlikementality.
So the only thing that I wouldsay is don't be a hypocrite and
give grace.
Act like what you want to see.
That's all.
All right.
But if you want a boring page,follow me.
If you want a boring page, youwant to see people with clothes,
night at Carsell.
SPEAKER_05 (41:55):
There you go.
What about you too?
Is that something you wish theolder generation, maybe your
parents, but maybe anyone inyour environment in general,
understood about the way youpresent yourself?
SPEAKER_04 (42:03):
Really?
No.
I don't really have any problemsor quarrels with the older
generation.
I feel like I understand themfor the most part.
They understand me.
The only thing is, it seems likemy silence bothers them for some
reason.
unknown (42:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (42:18):
I guess I don't know what it is.
They mistake it for something.
I don't really know what it is,but there have been a few of the
older generation that I haven'tgone along with just because
they misread my silence.
SPEAKER_05 (42:29):
Felt.
I don't even understand theissue.
SPEAKER_06 (42:32):
People are mad when you don't speak when they want
you to speak.
SPEAKER_05 (42:36):
I mean, he walks in the room, he says hello.
Of course.
I'm not rude.
Right, so that's what I'msaying.
Like, if you didn't you ain'tthe same way with you too
growing up, though.
SPEAKER_06 (42:44):
Like he never wants to be a part of the party.
He never wants to come sit overhere and hang out with the
adults.
He's always somewhere with thekids.
Like it's like, who are youguys?
It's fine.
SPEAKER_03 (42:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (42:51):
We're all here hanging out at the same place.
And I'm just an observer.
And I really am not interestedin your conversation, if I'm
being honest.
I don't really see a place forme there.
So let me just sit and vibe.
SPEAKER_04 (43:01):
But there are even people like who have wanted a
reaction out of me.
They wanted to get a reactionout of me.
And I'm just not that type ofperson.
So it's just like I wish theywould understand that because
then they go and make anassumption and they take it out
of context and then they maketheir own belief.
And then that's where it's justlike, come on, man.
You can't have less control thana 20-year-old.
SPEAKER_06 (43:22):
Get him, Kiki.
Leave my boy alone, he said.
SPEAKER_01 (43:28):
For me, it's just I'm never doing something for
instant gratification.
I'm not doing anything for you.
So if that's what you'reassuming based off what I if I
do show off, which I have noreason to, but if I'm showing
something like it's not for youper se, I value what I have, and
if I feel like presenting myselfin a way for you to judge in a
(43:52):
way.
So don't think I'm like seekinga reaction, I guess.
And I'm just doing it for me,what you think has no benefit
towards me.
It's not gonna affect me in anegative way.
I'm just doing it to do it.
You're not seeking validation.
I'm not seeking validation, no.
If anything, I validate myself.
Was there showing off in yourgeneration while you were
(44:12):
growing up?
Even without the internet.
How how was that?
Like what was the differencebetween then and now, you know,
without social media?
Yeah, it was just harder.
SPEAKER_05 (44:21):
Stone really had to ride their dinosaurs to the next
block.
Yeah, so write poetry andlegends to each other.
SPEAKER_06 (44:30):
The Georgia Tim's combo.
SPEAKER_05 (44:32):
Send the pigeons.
Yeah.
So we used the chisel to writeon stone.
Um, that's how it all started.
That's tragic.
We got them.
And fire was yet to bediscovered.
SPEAKER_06 (44:44):
They were just using their breath.
unknown (44:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (44:48):
So we yeah, just hunting and eight.
That's it.
Um, but yeah, to answer yourquestion, the way we did it was
just it was just the same thing.
And people are people, yeah.
What social media did, and itwasn't as bad.
I'll say that.
It wasn't nearly as bad.
You see less lost people in mygeneration.
SPEAKER_06 (45:04):
There was still shame.
SPEAKER_05 (45:05):
Yeah, and they were less lost because they weren't,
and I I believe Kiki said thisagain on the last podcast.
He said, you know, comparison isa thief of joy.
Well, that's what it was.
So if I saw a few people, youknow, you're kind of comparing
yourself to these people, andsome of us were better at not
doing that, so we weren't tooinfluenced by it.
unknown (45:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (45:25):
But my my view was limited to where I was in my
area.
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (45:30):
I didn't get to see, I'm 25, for example.
I don't get to see a 20-year-oldwith a money spread.
Because where are you gonnayou're where are you gonna see
that?
You know, you would have toemail it to me at some point.
SPEAKER_06 (45:41):
At that point, it's like, what's going on?
SPEAKER_05 (45:43):
It's like, what do you who are you?
Like, what's going on?
Um, so there wasn't a whole lotto see that didn't make sense.
SPEAKER_02 (45:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (45:50):
When something happened, yes, maybe someone was
going out of their way to showoff, but very little was faked.
You still had to pay this bill,you still had to do things, and
if you were going somewhere,you're doing your best.
There are people that went outof their way to buy a nice car
because when they were gonna besomewhere, they needed the nice
car to represent how well theywere doing.
Right.
(46:10):
That might be the extent of it.
Maybe you wear certain clothes,name brands, and things like
that.
And we all at some point fellvictim to it.
At some point, there was a timewhere it mattered to me that I
had this particular brand ofclothes on.
It was totally innocent andbenign compared to what you guys
have to deal with and the wayyou're exposed to the world and
the nonsense that you have tosee.
SPEAKER_06 (46:29):
Okay, we're gonna touch on it real quick.
Celebrities and politicians werecelebrities and politicians back
then.
Now, everybody's an influencer.
Every single person is aninfluencer.
It'll be somebody with 10K, theyget on there, you went to high
school with them, you know themin real life, and now here they
are influencing a bunch ofyounger people, and people are
(46:50):
taking like everything they sayface value.
Like that, that is not someonethey have no idea.
They're living life for thefirst time, they're just as
young as you, they're trying,but again, it's the same person
that's watching you're watchingthem wake up and you're watching
them drive out of their garage.
Like, you know that there's aclip where they had to take off
running back up the driveway andget that whole setup and like
(47:15):
wait for their neighbors to go.
Because God forbid there'ssomebody walking their dog.
Now they're involved, so youhave to do it again.
So now they're running up anddown the driveway.
You're not thinking about likethe realness of this.
SPEAKER_05 (47:25):
What it took for that to happen.
Yeah, you don't have a teamfollowing you around.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (47:29):
Right.
So I think it's just the worldsare blending.
Everybody feels like, oh, if Ijust post the right amount of
stuff, if I just fake it enough,I'll make it because everybody
can reach celebrity statusovernight.
It could be one insane viralvideo, one anything, and now
you're popping.
And for whatever reason, peopleare paying to come watch you do
whatever you do.
SPEAKER_05 (47:49):
Yeah, everyone's looking for life hack, I think,
and they're looking for ashortcut.
SPEAKER_04 (47:53):
It's weird.
One of the craziest things forme is Kobe Lame.
You you know Kobe Lame?
SPEAKER_01 (47:57):
He didn't say a word.
He would just put he would watcha video that was so stupid.
He would reenact the video, doit the right way, and just put
his hands out in front of him.
He was the most followedTikToker.
Yeah, I think he still is.
He's trying to put his handsout.
SPEAKER_04 (48:11):
The amount of brand deals, the opportunities he got
just for just saying how is thateven influenced?
SPEAKER_05 (48:17):
And you know, I was like, It's not.
SPEAKER_06 (48:18):
That's the thing.
Everybody's influenced byeverything.
SPEAKER_05 (48:20):
All he was saying was, I'm pointing out the
obvious about how absurd thisthing is.
There was some brilliance to it.
What he was doing, he was takingthe internet, he was taking all
these reels, he was saying, Thisis the stupidest thing I've ever
seen.
There it is.
Right.
And then he was pointing it out.
So he actually, you know, hisclaim to fame was, I'm going to
show you how stupid the internetis in social media, and there it
(48:43):
was.
SPEAKER_06 (48:44):
But there's the other side to it.
So people would be even morestupid so that they can end up
on his page.
SPEAKER_05 (48:48):
No way.
SPEAKER_06 (48:49):
So now we have more stupid, him influencing more
people, and it's just the circleof stupid.
It makes no sense.
But all of these people areinfluencing.
SPEAKER_05 (48:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (48:58):
The stupid video makers and him with his hands.
That's insane.
SPEAKER_05 (49:02):
Yeah.
No, this was a good discussion,man.
So uh we're going to read theoutro notes.
So this, so you have to read theoutro doing uh a celebrity
impression.
I need, I need the keep in mind,keep in mind that it's it's
supposed to be a bad impression.
You're not supposed to be goodat this, so don't stress it.
SPEAKER_06 (49:19):
You're supposed to- Wow, where was that?
Where was that?
SPEAKER_05 (49:21):
That's just well, you know, you're like you follow
the show, and you know that'sexactly what I've been saying
since day one.
I didn't think I needed to giveyou instructions, you needed to
hear it.
SPEAKER_06 (49:28):
I was stressed.
SPEAKER_05 (49:30):
I will be Sean Paul today.
SPEAKER_04 (49:31):
Let's do it, man.
Please support us by followingthe Bumbo Clare show.
Leave us a five-star review onApple Podcast.
Thank you so much for listening.
We'll catch you on the next weekwhen we share conversations
surrounding real issues we dealwith every day.
Manhood Matters, we're out.
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