March 31, 2025 • 62 mins
Two accomplished Black women pull back the curtain on what it really means to navigate corporate America while carrying the DOUBLE burden of race and gender. This conversation explores the exhausting mental gymnastics required to succeed in spaces not designed for them.
Our guests share powerful stories about the necessity of code-switching – that daily performance where tone, expression, and even greeting style must be carefully calibrated to avoid triggering stereotypes. "I can't just show up and be me," one guest explains. "I have to outperform and do that dance just to be accepted." The mental toll becomes clear as they describe returning home completely drained from maintaining these performances all day.
Perhaps most revealing are the discussions about communication strategy. Black women must approach problem-solving differently than their white counterparts, sandwiching critiques between praise to avoid being labeled as "aggressive." Even more disturbing are the stories of credit theft, including another guest who was asked to write a recommendation letter for a white male colleague who received an award for her work.
The conversation takes a personal turn when discussing how these professional challenges affect relationships. Both guests explore the tension between independence developed through workplace battles and vulnerability needed in partnerships. "I had to let my guard down," one guest shares about her marriage. "If you love this man enough to say he's your husband, allow him to show up as your husband."
While acknowledging harsh realities about ongoing workplace bias, our guests offer valuable insights for young Black women entering professional spaces. Their wisdom serves as both warning and preparation for those following in their footsteps.
What emerges is a MASTERCLASS IN RESILIENCE, strategic thinking, and the unspoken tax Black women pay in pursuit of professional success. Listen now for a conversation that will change how you understand workplace dynamics forever.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
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Music by Liam Weisner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He said I don't want the inventory manager because I
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough, I'mstill learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
You shit me.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
(00:20):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Sounds about right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Wow.
So the spotlight could havebeen on me.
Yeah, everyone around me knewit should have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What's going on everyone?
Today's episode is one for thebooks.
We're switching gears andshining the spotlight on two
phenomenal women.
Zola these two are steppinginto the studio to break down
(01:04):
what it's really like tonavigate the shark infested
waters of corporate America asblack women, from boardrooms to
backhanded compliments.
They're pulling no punches andgiving us the unfiltered truth
with grace, style and just theright amount of fire.
And oh, by the way, listen,we're also kicking off a brand
(01:29):
new tradition today.
It's called the celebrity outrochallenge.
So we flipped the coin beforethe show, before we hit record
and the losers gotta close outthe show with a bad celebrity
impression.
Stick around to find out who'sgetting roasted.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
So thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh hey.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Absolutely.
Thank you for being here.
I appreciate you guys so, sovery much for doing this.
This is going to be aninteresting topic because it's
one that we kind of touched on afew episodes ago.
We talked about the blackstereotypes, and one of them was
black women are angry and loud.
We talked about where thatstereotype comes from, and then
(02:26):
we touched on microaggressionsat work what you guys have to
face and deal with every day.
So why don't we just go aroundintroducing ourselves and then
we'll just get right into theconversation?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
All right, I am Patrice Nash.
I am the wife of Willie Nashand the mother of Marian Thomas.
I mentioned those because thoseare my jobs every day and I
also work as a sourcing wellsenior category manager.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I know people don't know what that means I know
right what is that.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I basically look at contracts and do big deal
negotiations for a fortune 10company, wow yeah.
And then I also own my owncompany called perfect
perfections.
I do events as well as interiordesign.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's awesome, and how long have you been at with
your current career?
How long have you been doingthat?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
so with McKesson, I've been with them for 15 years
for my company.
I started as a real company.
I established it in 2018.
Got it.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Willie, we know you are.
It's not about you and me,brother, but I'm glad to have
you here, man.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Man, glad to be here.
I'm glad to be back.
You know it's been a while.
Yes, sir, you know, feelinglike I'm at home again, yeah,
let feeling like.
I'm at home again.
Let's do it.
I don't have to introducemyself.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
No, you don't.
You know, everybody knowsyou're always late to this, but
it's funny because I said thismorning I went to get some
coffee and donuts and I'm comingback and Willie's already here.
I'm like she truly is the bestpart of you, because now you're
15 minutes early, because she'sshowing up.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
That's right, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
My showing up.
That's right, that's so funny,my better half.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I am stickler about time.
There's a lot of stuff I don'tplay about.
Time is what I am.
I am Willie, willie is me.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And for the first time, I have my lovely,
beautiful wife on the pod.
For the first time.
She's been trying to get awayfrom this.
She's been running away everytime I've asked her.
There's always a reason,something's not happening.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's just not my thing.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I know, and that's why there's no video today.
I'm not even taking photos.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, yeah.
So, babe, introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I'm Steph's wife.
Of course my name is Zola I, Ofcourse my name is Zola.
I work in private equity.
I've been doing with my currentcompany for about seven years
now.
Very interesting, so we'll diga little deeper into the
conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
For sure, Gotcha.
And let me ask you both whatlevel of schooling did you
attain?
I got my GED, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I know, you got a high school diploma, we would
not be the guests for a GED andsome college you might not have
graduated but you went.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
You went to college.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You attempted it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I was there for the student loans.
They're looking for me rightnow.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I have a bachelor's degree from the Xavier
University of Louisiana, hbcuproud.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Oh man, I have my MBA .
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So let's talk about the biggest challenges that you
face, simply not because youhave that job and that position,
but either one of you can speakto this because you are a black
woman in that space.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, you know me, me .
I've been working since I waslike 15, right?
None of my supervisors haveever been black, so I have been
groomed to talk that talk, walkthat walk and show up as what's
expected, right?
So it's not anything new.
(06:06):
It's almost like code switching, like that's exactly what it's
called.
It's called code switchingwhere it's like innate to me, it
comes so natural.
Where it's like in the parkinglot, I'm like shit, yep.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I got to put it on, even in the mornings.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Like don't talk to me in the mornings, like I need
time to mentally prepare becauseit's a draining experience,
right, but again it's embeddedin me.
So if I come home and I'm likeI'm tired, like it's not a
physical thing, it's just I ammentally drained.
So the expectation is I leavethe house a certain way but I
(06:44):
need to show up a certain wayand I have to be mindful of how
I show up.
Like I can't just show up andnot show all of my 32.
I need hi.
Good morning, how are you?
Did you have a good night?
Like you have to do that right.
Very engaging.
I can come in and just be likegood morning and go to my office
(07:06):
Right, I can't do that.
But Amanda, she can walk in,not say a word and she's
perfectly good.
Oh, you know, amanda is justbeing Amanda, but Zola comes in
walks to her office.
Oh she's, she's so rude.
Well, you know why is she beingso rude this morning?
Or she might be a little bitaggressive today.
Don't go in there.
She didn't come in and you know, like so it's, it's just a
(07:28):
little.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You ain't chucking and jiving that morning.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Exactly, whereas I can't come in and just be me.
I can't come in and just belike everybody else.
I have to come in andoutperform.
I have to come in and do dothat dance, just to be accepted
in that space.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
So what was the original question?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You've answered it.
Oh you know, for the most part.
I mean there's a whole lot moreto go into because you and I've
had this conversation.
I'll be on the phone with her.
You know we're just talkingthrough maybe the ride to work
or whatever.
And she gets into the officeand I hear the most jovial,
happy person because she'ssaying hi to everyone and
smiling and I'm like the fuckhappened.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
He go.
You must've just walked in theoffice.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And I realized this is what happens.
Right, it's lights, cameraaction, it's an act and you have
to turn it on because you can'tafford not to Right.
What about you, patrice?
What are you running into?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
For me, currently it's a lot better because on the
flip side, I now have a VPwho's African-American woman.
So she's already set that barof bring your authentic self to
work.
So I have that defense becauseshe's like over the entire
department and I have a greatrelationship with her because
(08:51):
she's helped me along in mycareer recently.
But in hindsight, I talked to alot of suppliers who are, you
know, vps of companies.
You know VPs of companies,directors of companies.
They are majority Caucasian menwho have basically told me that
I don't know enough to tell themwhat they're going to do with
(09:13):
their company, but I do knowenough to tell you what I'm not
going to do with ours.
So I have to fight that battle.
So I start off, you know, withthe code switching Hi, how are
you guys doing?
But I'm learning that in thatthey think they could play in my
face for the most part, um, andit's quickly turned around to
the no, no, that's not whatwe're going to do.
(09:34):
So when they get hit with that,no, no, they already no, no, no
you have to check them yeah.
You have to come in like, okay,let me tell you what we're not
going to do.
And then it's like, oh, okay,so it's not that I'm not trying
to be the angry black woman, butI'm not going to be the little
black girl that you want,putting me in a position to
(09:55):
where that's my only go-to yes,and you can't lead that way.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You can't show up that way, because then
automatically you know what theyalready thought of you is.
Well, there you go, she'sproving it Right.
So you show up with all thepleasantries and the
professionalism and then you gettested.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes.
Now what I do know in my careeron the corporate side is when
they ask me my opinion, I don'tstart with the issue.
I try to start with thepositive and then bring it back
with the issue, but in with thepositive.
And they say, that's easy, butyou especially have to do it as
a black woman, because if Ileave with the issue.
(10:32):
They already think I'm theproblem, so I can't start with
that part.
I have to be like well,everything is great, you know, I
don't see any issues with this,but this could be a concern for
someone else in this way.
And then it turns into you knowwhat the issue is, but I can't
start with y'all fucking up, youknow, because then they hear me
(10:56):
as oh, you the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Is it us or is it you ?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You mentioned something a little while ago
that I know, that black women ingeneral have struggled and
dealt with.
You have a black manager, right, your VP, the person you report
to.
She's a black woman.
So I've had discussions Onefriend for example.
She was saying that hermanager's black.
But I think what happened isthis black woman has had to
prove herself so much that sheshows up that way all the time
(11:21):
and she was miserable to workfor.
So do you find that, instead ofhaving some type of alliance in
not just this current position,but in any position you both
have had to, where you've had todeal with another black woman,
instead of an alliance, wasthere some kind of conflict?
Because she was black andinstead of looking out for you
and being that mentor that shecould be, it was the opposite?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I've had issues with lower management positions, not
higher.
So when you're still at thatpoint in your career where
you're trying to prove yourself,I think black women can come
off, as I can't let this otherwoman it's not even like saying,
black woman, I can't letanybody in my department show me
up so they might notnecessarily have your back as
(12:06):
much.
In front of everyone they'requick to say, oh girl, you know,
I already know what's going on,but when it comes to the time
when it counts, they're stillout for themselves.
With my VP, she is moresolidified in her career.
She's older lady, she has donewhat she needs to do.
We had a very candidconversation when I started.
(12:29):
She was like I need your helpwith this department to start it
.
And I was like I'm sorry, but Idon't trust people with my
career.
And she was like trust me thisone time.
If I fail, you point it out,but trust me this one time.
And that was powerful 2020 andI've.
For five years I've beentrusting her and she has been
(12:51):
showing up and showing out and Igive her her flowers all the
time because I don't thinkenough people reach back and say
you know, I'll bring you withme on my journey yeah so for her
to be able to do that with me.
It's only right that I say youknow what I appreciate you for
everything you've done, becauseI've worked with a white woman
(13:11):
and me and that help her.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I remember her.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You had to hear about it a lot.
She stayed two doors down fromus.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So, I'd be willing to set her damn house on fire.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
She's this day, right now.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
No, she don't stay in the house.
She didn't move.
Y'all made a move.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
We didn't necessarily make a move.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
But her working.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I'll get into that, we'll revisit that.
But I didn't work with thatwoman.
Baby, let me tell you I almostlost myself.
That's when I couldn't codeswitch no more.
I had to go off on her in heroffice.
I'm like I don't like you, youdon't like me, I don't trust you
, you don't trust me.
But I'm going to tell you whatyou're not going to do.
You're not going to play withmy livelihood.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, we got through that.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
We did.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
We have evolved, but this new VP, she really likes me
, she does, she really lovesWillie.
That's what matters.
That's what matters, she likesme.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
She really loves.
She's like how is Willie, thatis my friend, I'm like that is
not your friend.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I'm just playing.
She's a really, really genuineperson, god-fearing, and she's
God-fearing to the point whereshe don't have to say I'm
God-fearing.
You just see it right like you,you know those people, they
right, they got something ontheir life yeah that's her
that's the only you know.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
We're not gonna get into religion, but that's the
only type of people that, whenyou talk about God that I
respect.
You live it and I can see itthrough you.
You don't have to keep sayingit.
Yes, I can see it through you.
You don't have to keep sayingit.
Yes, I can see it based on youractions.
Exactly.
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So I guess, like I said, I've never had a black
supervisor in any capacity, nota team leader, not a known in
management, it's not necessarilymore so someone of the same
race keeping me down, but inevery company I've always been
(15:07):
the token black right, yeah, um,the current company.
Right now, when I came in,there's a black guy there, but
girl, he don't count, if youknow what I'm saying yeah, okay,
yeah he's, he's, he's them,yeah, I mean down to the wife,
the, the expectation, right, see, all we had to do was see each
other.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You saw how she gave me a look and I get out.
Yeah, I don't even know.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So I understand that she stole me.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I guess you know I came in and I, you know, did my
90 days and they were like great, they're acceptable.
You know what I mean.
They can perform, they can do,and they brought in you know a
black receptionist and then youknow a black accountant and you
know, but it kind of hard, pause, you open the diversity.
(15:53):
Exactly, it was like you know,kind of for them Like oh OK,
it's up there with.
They speak so well you know,they speak so well you know.
But then when those women camein and the way they came in, I'm
(16:14):
like y'all ain't going to fuckthis up for me.
Yeah, right, because again I'veworked very hard to be the code
switcher, that I am Right Likey'all ain't just going to come
up in here and fuck my shit up,right.
So we have to to we're areflection of each other.
Yes, so in that sense,respectfully, I've had the
conversation with them likelisten, this is a first for this
company.
This company has been aroundforever and of the 300 people,
(16:38):
we're the only three right now.
I was a test run.
I said it to them just likethat.
I'm a test run and with thattest run I performed.
So here you two go right.
So there's a way you need tolook, there's a way you need to
speak, there's things that youneed to leave at the door and
when you come in, you have to bethis way.
(16:59):
You have to.
This is how they're looking atyou and what they're expecting.
So it's like I had to give themthe code switch in working in
corporate America 101.
And they weren't necessarilyresistant to it.
They were actually veryappreciative for the feedback
because that allowed them to,and I noticed the changes like,
(17:21):
immediately after thatconversation, the way they dress
.
You know there was no justbecause we're black women in the
office, there's no sister girltalk right.
We save that for when we bumpinto each other in the bathroom
or in the kitchen.
You know like that, thatone-on-one thing.
But when, when?
Even when the eyes aren'twatching, the eyes are watching
(17:41):
right, and we have to be held toa certain standard and kept at
a certain standard in order tobe in the environment that we're
in.
There's not a lot of blackwomen, there's not a lot of
minorities, period, not a lot ofeven white.
There are not a lot of whitewomen in the sector that I'm in.
So, now that we are here,regardless of our position the
(18:02):
janitor, the receptionist, itdoesn't matter we still have to
come in and perform at a certainand it's unfortunate, it's very
, very unfortunate that we haveto be this way, but if we want
to get that money, that's what Iwas going to say.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Is it in coaching them and showing them how to be,
how to code switch and all ofthat?
Is there an argument forsomeone saying yeah, but you're
not?
You're teaching people how tocode switch and all of that?
Is there an argument forsomeone saying yeah, but you're
not?
You're teaching people how, nothow to not be authentic um
could not give a fuck about yourauthentic self.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You better not show up as your authentic self I
always tell people be yourauthentic self when it's
authentic okay, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
and?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I mean when you're in a meeting with somebody.
That's a duty.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
That's a job.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
That's something like your duties assigned.
So why are you trying to beauthentic?
When I'm having a conversation,like she said, that sidebar
conversation, be yourself, bewho you want to be.
But when you are representingthe company, you're not
authentically the company.
When you leave that nine tofive, you don't authentically
the company.
When you leave that nine tofive, you don't live their life,
(19:08):
you don't live that brand,you're not all that stuff.
So you absorb what you need toabsorb then and when you're
saying code switch, it's not abad thing.
You can't expect I can't expectto make a deal for 30 million
dollars for our company and belike, um, you know what I'm
saying, we ain't gonna be doingit, you know?
Yeah, I don't need to focus.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
That's not how I speak on a day-to-day, though
like when I say code switchingno but like no, no, but when I
show up and I'm speaking withsomeone, this is pretty much how
I sound, because I didn't growup in the hood, like you know, I
(19:51):
didn't have that experience.
But I can keep it real and havethat girl to girl girlfriend
conversation with my peers,right, when I'm comfortable, but
when I'm comfortable, yeah,comfortable, but when I'm
comfortable, yeah.
So code switching for me is inthese spaces, in these corporate
spaces, like you always have tobe on.
Because here's the thing,corporate America is a game and
(20:14):
no one is ever your friend, ever, right, so I have to be in my
comfort zone.
Like you know, the one and twopeople that I'm in my comfort
zone with at work, but for themost part, all my other
counterparts, however friendlythey may be, they will never see
that other side of me.
They will never see that, thatI'm kicking it, that you know,
(20:36):
oh, let's hang out Like.
They will never see that,because it's a game, everybody
is just trying to excel and makeit to the top.
And the fact that I am there intheir space girl, I'd be walking
in the kitchen just to get ayogurt from the fridge and these
folks look terrified and I haveto be.
I have to disarm them like hey,good morning, you know, I'm
just here to grab a yogurt.
(20:57):
Like they have never been inenvironments, especially
one-on-one situations you can'sclear as day right for a
dark-skinned sister to walk intothe kitchen.
I tell you it is exhausting.
So when I come home and I tellsteph that I am drained and I
don't have the bandwidth, I haveto do a lot of tap dancing to
collect this check.
It's not easy.
(21:18):
It's not easy at all.
And unfortunately they do sayshow up as your authentic self.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
but that is bullshit that does not apply to me.
They say it, they live it, likeour company tells you.
You know, we even have the deiprograms.
You know because I am in theblack excellence you kept it
alive I'm always gonna be blackevery day.
I tell them every day you me,you're going to see me black at
(21:44):
first, but I have made it souncomfortable for others because
I'm too old, I've been with thecompany too long.
I've got to that point whereI'm like, if you let me go,
hopefully it's with severance.
So if I calculate the amount ofweeks that you're going to pay
me, I don't do nothing to losethe job.
(22:09):
But you know if you're lookingat the people and you want to
cut some head count, okay, I gotthese years in.
I'm good, but I get it LikeI've had to do both.
I've had to live where, when Icame in, I had to tap dance on
everything.
I couldn't be the aggressiveblack woman, even though I was
in operations that you had to beassertive.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It's not even that you were going to be the
aggressive black woman.
You just couldn't expressanything because if you did, it
was going to be misconstrued asbeing aggressive.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, no, I could express it, but they couldn't
hear me because, like I said, Ibrought the problem first and
then I'll be like, okay, no, no,your problem is this.
Let me give you a solution.
They didn't hear the solution,all they heard was the problem.
You have to speak their languagein order for them to understand
so it was like I and I couldhave two white guys that
(22:59):
reported to me, one that waslike my homeboy, but he's still
white like we.
And I say homeboy because tothis day men, all of us are
still cool like they've advancedin their career.
They're playing the game likethey need to play.
They've advanced higher than meand I'm okay with that because
we know they are white men thatfit that corporate they don't
have to do much.
(23:20):
They don't have to do much rightnow don't get me wrong, they
are very smart in everythingthat they do.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
They're still qualified, but there's nothing
going against them.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
But their struggles are not the same struggles,
correct, so we could be sittingthere.
I've told them before themeeting what I'm going to
present.
They're like, yep, that's right, I agree, we need to do that.
I go to the meeting, I getlooked at as the issue.
Then they sit back, wait twominutes and say, well, I'm a
circle back and I think we needto do that what Patrice said.
(23:50):
They'll even say my name and weneed to do X, y and Z.
You know what you were rightyou are.
I think that's what we're goingto do.
That's fucking insane.
Well, what the hell?
We've been mean for an extra 30minutes and I told y'all that
when I first came in.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I know I say that to you all the time.
It sounds like a skip, Likeit's like I'm watching some kind
of reality and you're likesomeone made that shit up.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
There's no way.
I would put it like this therewas recently a black woman in
history who told us all the shitwe was finna face.
She was qualified, had everydegree, had went through every
level of politics, fought herway to the top.
She told everybody here's theblueprint that these white folks
(24:33):
wrote for y'all.
And this is what's going tohappen.
I'm telling you, I will fightfor you.
And where is she?
Oh, crickets, yeah.
So that's what I'm saying.
If the woman at this level,with all these accolades, can go
through all of this and nobodyshowed up for her.
(24:54):
That's why we say we're not.
And she light-skinned.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
She light-skinned black.
She light-skinned black.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
She was the one she was acceptable in all circles of
what we could even potentiallybe in.
Yeah, white husband didn't havea child so she could fight with
her career, so she didn't haveto balance home life versus work
life.
Then she got all the degrees.
I mean, you know, she couldtalk the talk.
(25:22):
She don't win and fall in othercountries for our rights and
they accept her in othercountries more than we accept
her.
And the only people that showedup for her was black women, a
few black men, don't get mewrong.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I understand that and I exactly, but we're not going
to get into politics.
But I told Steph the reason shedid not win was because for the
four years she was in officeshe never showed up.
She didn't start no lunchinitiative.
She didn't go out there andplant no trees.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
She did not but that's what y'all want her for
Obama, for Michelle.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But, michelle, if you take what you can't, I don't
mean to say I don't mean tooverride you, but you cannot say
you're going to run for thehighest position in the United
States.
Meanwhile you were silent thepast four years.
That's like being mediocre forfour years and me showing up to
my boss talking about somethingI want to raise.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
But let me ask you this Was she silent or did the
media not portray her?
Because when you go back to it,I think it's not.
I don't think she wasnecessarily silent.
I really don't, because when welook at the HBCU bills, that was
her.
When we look at the studentloans, who fought with Biden to
(26:38):
make sure that was her.
But they put Biden's name on itlike they have done every vice
president before.
But they put Biden's name on itlike they have done every vice
president before.
If you look at any previousvice president, they wasn't in
there showing all the thingsthat they did.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
But they didn't have to fight like her.
But attention spans are short,right.
So coming off Biden was Obamaand Biden coming.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But what did Biden do ?
Hold on.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
But you never saw Obama without seeing Biden
somewhere in the back looking ina corner.
So his presence was always atthe forefront in some way shape
or form.
Now I don't know if it'sbecause you know she was a black
woman or what the deal was, whyshe was never.
You know, whenever you sawBiden, you saw Kamala somewhere
in the back.
(27:21):
You know she was just neverthere, somewhere in the back.
You know she was just neverthere.
I don't know if her absence wasintentional, but she was just
never present in the way thatshe should have been.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And my question would be was it because, or initially
, she wasn't running?
It was always going to bebiting, but we kept calling him
sleepy joe.
Which hell, I take sleepy joe,go to sleep.
But if we, and it's like shecouldn't outshadow the white man
, but then she can't be in thebackground without saying, look
(27:53):
at me, look at me, I'm here.
So that's the battle I fight.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
and that means she was just complicit to her
position, right?
She never took the initiativeto inject herself, and when she
tried to inject herself, it'salmost like it's too late Again.
You can't be mediocre.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Showing up.
Did she try to inject herself,or did the press then start
focusing on her?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
But it's not a matter of the press.
There are other social mediaplatforms where you can be
active.
I can get that, so you don'thave to necessarily need
mainstream media to be active,especially as it pertains to the
black community.
Right, you got the clout whereshade room will post you.
Right, you got the clout wherehollywood unlocked they will
(28:35):
post you.
That means so many social mediasites that target black people,
and she even her own page again.
If you want to keep your peoplelike, you have to interact with
them in some way, shape or form, and when you're silent on your
people and not speaking up whenyou want us to show up, you're
not necessarily going to get thethe the correct response.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I get what you're saying.
I I debate it.
But I know we said no politics,but I debate it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
We'll argue later, yes, open some wine.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Because I guess because she was such a pivotal
part of the HBCU community, Ifollowed her more so I paid
attention to what she did withthe black doctors, the OBGYN,
the mortality, all these thingsbefore it became part of her
campaign, all these thingsbefore it became part of her
campaign.
But I also recognize, and evenin my career, that example I was
(29:30):
given.
I could sit there and doeverything perfect.
I'll use the example of reallife.
What pissed me off and why?
I related to what was happeningto her when I got the job at my
DC and that's what brought usto Atlanta.
The DC was underperforming.
It was having issues withemployees, union conversations,
(29:53):
issues.
They brought me on to turn itaround in inventory.
They were like we're losingmillions of dollars in inventory
.
We we ran a very marginal likeloss that you could had to be
like 0.003 percent of lossbecause we're thinking about
drugs here.
Okay drugs.
She's a drug dealer I was a drugdealer at that time, so I come
(30:22):
from memphis to atl DC hard toturn around.
Within two months we doneturned it around.
We have everything accountable.
We got everything going.
We're fixing things.
We could see everythinghappening.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
That's an extremely quick turnaround.
Right Two months.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
It was just some processes and that wasn't in
place.
Just knowing the process thatwe ran in Memphis that I learned
bring them here, execute them,tailor it to what is needed here
, keep it going OK.
Again, my white counterpart whowas the assistant inventory
manager.
He said I don't want theinventory manager because I
(31:01):
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough.
I'm still learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
You should me.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Exactly so.
The spotlight could have beenon me.
Everyone around me knew itshould have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done and this white womansaying no, no, I don't want to
(31:41):
listen to her because I can'ttell from her facial expressions
if she's serious or not.
What the fuck you mean?
If I said it, I was serious.
If I emailed you, I was seriousIf I told you in our
one-on-ones, I was serious justbecause I didn't.
Hey, you know what I'm saying.
We need to do this now.
(32:02):
Then I'll be the angry blackwoman.
I'm trying to do it with asmile to try to keep the morale
here, but this person, who goteven a chippier smile than me,
tells y'all the same thing.
Well, I can listen to him.
He knows you're going to givehim the accolades again.
So, no matter what she did, shewasn't going to get it because
(32:22):
of the color of her skin.
So it's debatable.
Yeah, she could have been outthere Look at me, look at me.
But then she would have beenthe black woman that feels like
she got to upstage the president.
So where do you find thatbalance For me?
I had to find a balance andmove away from that department
because I found that that wasn'tconducive to what I needed in
(32:43):
my life.
It was causing me to come hometo him and not be able to give
my all, when somebody can sitthere and tell me you need to
tell your husband to walk yourkids to the bus stop because I
expect you to be here longer.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
And I ain't walking no kids to the bus stop, Exactly
Like man.
What are you talking about,Willie?
I ain't walking no kids to thebus stop and I had to tell her.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I'm sorry, I know your husband's a stay at home
husband, but mine has a job.
He's the head of our household.
You're the head of yourhousehold.
No, no, ma'am, I will walk mykids to the bus and try to fire
me.
And again, I'm with the companyand she's not because I had to
stand my ground and tell her no.
(33:24):
But you know all the thingsthat I had to go through to even
get told you were right.
I had to document, I had tohave conversations with every
single person.
Tell them I need you to go tothis person and have a
conversation to combat what thisone person said, why I was damn
near on my deathbed because shewanted to lie and say I didn't
(33:46):
know.
And everybody believed her.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I didn't know yeah, yeah, yeah, the shit you guys go
through receipts I keep areceipt I keep a receipt.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I do not communicate over the phone, I do not
communicate face to face inoffice and if I do, I always
send an email following up withour discussion and I reiterate
every single thing that wasdiscussed, because you can never
say, oh no, and I will find myreceipts.
That's just.
That's just how it is.
I keep telling people corporateAmerica is a game, like it's a
(34:20):
game, and you have to know howto play it.
Like she was saying, I'veexperienced that too, where you
say something but they don'thear you.
Right, and it took me a fewtries, or a few instances
instances is a better word ittook me a few instances to
realize what it is.
And you're absolutely correct.
Being a black woman, you cannotstart.
It could be a meeting regardinga problem about the problem how
(34:43):
are we going to fix the problem?
It could be a meeting regardinga problem about the problem how
we're going to fix the problempertaining to the problem, right
?
Because there's six meetingsfor that.
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I know right.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
But you can if it's a meeting about the problem.
As a black woman, you can'tstart off with attacking the
problem.
Your white counterparts can.
They can even say the problemis this, right?
We can't say the problem isthis, you have to ease into it,
right, you have to pacify themess.
You have to pacify them andthen gently ease into what the
(35:14):
issue is and how, what yoursolution is for it.
But you can't go into anymeeting, especially as a black
woman, directly addressing theproblem.
You have to let everyone knowwhat the company has been doing
great so far, which is bullshit,because if you were doing great
so far, we wouldn't have thisproblem.
Yep, but you have to go intowhat we've been doing great so
(35:37):
far as a team and you have tohighlight your supervisors or
your direct managers.
You know their contributions,you know and then ease into well
, you know we've stumbled intothis obstacle.
We've stumbled into thisobstacle where you know this is
what's happening and how do werectify that, and then you can't
(35:59):
even necessarily take creditfor it to say I think you have
to say, well, as a team, weshould, we should, or as a team,
we've reviewed and concludedthat this might be the best
solution.
You can't say I, zola, as inblack, zola, you, you know, I
can deliver, I can present, butI can't take credit, for it has
(36:22):
to be as a team, and if mysupervisor or my superior is
really legit and about that shit, he'll be like no, this was
Zola's idea and give me thecredit where credit is due.
But I dare not stand in frontof a room and take credit and
say I did, or I think that's notacceptable.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
You know how many emails.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I have with.
We Is this 2025?
Speaker 4 (36:44):
This is 2025.
You know how many emails I haveis this?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
2025.
This is 2025.
You know how many emails Istart off with we and I am an
individual contributor like whothe fuck is we?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
who is?
Speaker 4 (36:52):
willie like who is?
Speaker 1 (36:52):
this we.
If he saw the emails where Isaid we have come to the
conclusion and he'll be like whothe fuck is we?
I literally have to go call myboss and be like hey, so I'm
gonna put we on here, but I justwant you to know what I'm gonna
tell these folks.
He'll be like hey, so I'm goingto put we on here, but I just
want you to know what I'm goingto tell these folks.
He'll be like go with it.
Okay, we good.
I just don't want nobody to sayyou don't want no surprises.
So I'm letting you know how I'mcoming at them, because I
(37:13):
luckily don't code switch withmy boss as much.
I still don't get all the waylike I am at home.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Because, unlike Zola, I'm not polished at all, but
again, I don't have anyone therethat necessarily looks like me
in a higher position that's Ican't.
I don't have anyone, that lookslike me, that's even my equal
to protect you from that exactly.
So I have to be this way allday, every day, yeah yeah, I get
it.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
I think you need to have her bath water ready when
she come home rubbingbing hershoulders Like baby.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
What's wrong?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
We talk all the time.
We talk about this.
I talk to her While she's atwork.
We have a lot of conversationsThroughout the day and it's
amazing Because I'm listening tothis and I'm going Damn, I'm
still discovering so much andjust listening to you both and
seeing so many parallels.
You know, maybe there's more wecan do, but like overall, like
the black woman doesn't feelprotected by the black man, yeah
(38:10):
, so what's your experience beenwith that feeling that way,
whether it's in life in generalor at work?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
In life.
I will say my husband hasbecome more supportive of the
things that I do.
Does my husband still have avery male, chauvinistic view of
life?
Probably so, but it's okay,cause I can tell him like we're
comfortable in our marriage.
I could be like, uh, sexistmaybe, and he'll be like, yep, I
(38:41):
am.
And I'll be like, okay, well,let's roll with it, like I know
who I'm dealing with when it'sdealing with him.
We have clear roles defined inour house.
In certain elements, he can docertain things that I probably
would never, ever try to dobecause it would cause issues in
the marriage.
Nothing crazy, but they'redefined roles.
(39:02):
Do I feel protected?
I was raised by very strong andopinionated black women.
I'm a lot less than what theyare and that's a lot.
I didn't ever feel like Ineeded to be protected.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Because my mom, my grandma, my auntie, they gonna
say what they feel like and yougo take it Like we are very
Memphis women and if you knowwhat that means, you know what
that means I'm out of here.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Crazy, I was there for 10 years.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Right, it's like my grandma was from the country.
She would be probablyconsidered more like a cafe
woman because she hung out, shepartied, she did her thing, like
she wasn't, like a loose woman,you know, but she was
unapologetically who she was andyou was going to either accept
her or you wasn't.
So I can't say I necessarilylook for the protection of a man
(40:01):
.
So that might be where I can'tsay if I felt protected, because
I feel like if you don'tprotect me, I protect myself.
I have a defense mechanismalready.
It became an issue in ourmarriage at one point where and
I'll go into that- yeah, becausewe had that conversation.
But it became an issue in ourmarriage where he felt like I
(40:24):
didn't need him because I was sostrong, like I didn't need him
because I was so strong.
So that was where I had to letmy guard down and be like, if
you love this man enough to sayhe's your husband, allow him to
show up as your husband, so givehim the space to be the head of
the house.
But to this day and I love himdearly, to this day, and I love
(40:46):
him dearly, but if somethinghappened to him or crumbled, I
wouldn't feel like who I am iscompletely gone as an existence
of a woman.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Totally, I get that.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I feel I'm safe enough with myself.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
She's saying she don't need me.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I need him.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
I'm sitting here.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Like girl, you better rephrase that your life is in
shambles.
I would be hurt, I would bedevastated, if my husband wasn't
there.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
The only one I know that has my back 100% is me.
He might got a 99.
But that 1% is somebody shoot agun.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
That 1% is a motherfucker.
That 1% is a nigga about toleave me, he'll be like baby let
go, protect yourself, boo,protect yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
He might shoot back, but he gonna be like you better
get going, baby duck.
I'll give you one example, andthen I'll be done, because I
worked in operations at the DCIf anybody ever lived in DC life
, warehouse, life you got tocome in there a little bit more,
you know.
So I had given them someinformation.
This one guy decided he wasgoing to come sit behind me and
(41:57):
he was a black man, but he wastalking aggressively over my
back about me.
So he like no, what we gonna dois and going ham on me and
behind my back.
And you know, in my thoughtprocess I was like OK, I could
cuss him out, but I need thisgood, paying job, so I'm going
to sit still.
I think my manager at the timetold him like, like you need to
(42:19):
calm down, you know, let's talkabout this and refocused in the
meeting and came out the officeand he was like Patrice, I'm
sorry, I just got passionate.
I said no, no, let me tell yousomething.
You see me when I'm at work,but I'm going to tell you now,
if I go home, there's someonebigger and stronger that will
fuck you up.
(42:40):
That was the one time I feltprotected.
I threw him out there Conveneand threw me out there to get
shot.
I was like, but no, becausehonestly he's because what he
did in hindsight.
We had a corporate event and Itold him I was like look my
husband, don't play about meLike you can come and think you
finna, wolf somebody else.
(43:01):
But let me tell you, don't letthe size fool you.
Player, so player.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
So, and that's how I said it, like cause I told you I
don't.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I'm sorry.
So I'm gonna work on me.
So we had a Christmas party orsomething and Willie had to see
the guy and he sat him down atthe bar.
He was like I don't care what'sgoing on, don't talk to my wife
like that.
And the guy apologized, youknow.
He said I appreciate, Iappreciate you, man.
It was my bad, but I told himand my husband came and backed
(43:33):
that up.
Yeah, so I guess my babeprotected me.
Look at you, boo.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Protecting your wife.
Don't play, don't play, don'tplay about you.
You got me, babe, okay.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Baby, anybody yell at you.
Let me back in Anything youneed to tell me.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
Maybe anybody yell at you lately.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Anything you need to tell me they're so funny.
So black women beingunderprotected from a corporate
experience it's absolutely truenecessarily been black men in
the environments that I've beenin to necessarily say, okay, I
know so-and-so has my back or Iknow so-and-so will reinforce
(44:14):
what you know.
Zola has said Like I've neverhad that and where I'm at now,
again the first token he's allfor himself.
I could be set on fire andhe'll.
He wouldn't even look over tospit on me, you know.
So from the corporateperspective, no, I'm not going
to sit here and make it soundlike you know I hate white
people, or white people haven'thelped me along the way, because
(44:36):
they absolutely have, becauseif they didn't I wouldn't be in
a position that I am now.
The person that I learnedeverything from was a white
woman, but biggest bitch everlike ever in life.
She was just nasty, right, butbecause, again, I was a single
mom at the time, like you ain'tgoing, this ain't going to stop
me from collecting my coins,because, again, you have to know
(44:59):
your reason for showing up andno one can deter you from that.
So while I was there workingfor her, I was working on my
bachelor's degree and she waslazy, so she thought she was
doing herself a favor.
But that white woman taught meeverything I know.
She taught me how to do her jobas a controller and me, being
(45:21):
who I am, I'm not going tocomplain.
I see you, I know what you'redoing, you lazy, and you think
you're dumping shit on me, butI'm learning how to do your job
Right.
So she indirectly taught meeverything I know and once I
mastered it, she was able to bepromoted to CFO.
I'm still in my same positionMeanwhile.
I'm still doing her job and Itook it.
(45:44):
I openly took it, I willinglytook it, because I to her, she
was just like, oh, she's just,you know, when she's talked
about Zola, she's just so eagerto learn, you know, she's just
so eager to learn, you know.
And she, yeah, zola got it.
So that's her thing, like Zolacan take care of that.
Zola will take care of thatbecause, again, indirectly,
(46:06):
everything I know that womantaught me and I give her props
for it.
You know, for being lazy I giveher all the props, but she
taught me everything I knew.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Lazy bitch.
Thank you, bitch.
She's dead now.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Aw dang.
That's the piece.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Say it again she, my bad lady, Forgive me forgive me,
but from that sense, like sheprotected me in my position,
like in some cases I was able tobe my authentic self because
she couldn't do the job, yeah,right, I'm doing the job, so I
(46:44):
can kind of be be able to getaway with a little bit of
whatever the fuck, because I wasthe face behind the face.
But I've had other experiencesin the outside world where I'm
just like these bitch ass niggas.
Right, I was just on a flightthe other day and you know, you
disembark the plane, you leavethe plane in an orderly fashion,
(47:05):
right, and there's littlenigglet, a whole nigglet, a
little one who raised you commoncurtis.
It should be embedded like,when you're dealing with a woman
, it's always ladies first, it'salways black or white, it
doesn't matter, women first.
You protect women.
Girl, I'm reaching up for mybag and he, because you know, as
(47:29):
soon as the plane lands and theseatbelt, everybody just floods
, no, and you still end up stuckin the same place because
people are getting off by rows.
And he had his hand up likeblocking me in my face, and I
had to push his hand away, right, and then he kind of, you know,
gets out the way for a littlebit, but then once the line
starts to move, like he legitpushed me, got in front, like
(47:50):
push me out.
I'm like, I'm like atlanta gotsome bitch ass niggas and I said
it out loud and he turnedaround and our eyes made four.
Yes, I'm talking to you, butit's situations and instances
like that in the outside worldwhere you expect black men
teenage all the way you know tobe able to put black women right
, especially black women.
(48:10):
Show us some respect.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
Sounds like Zola, don't need you either.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
No, I need my man.
Don't get it twisted, I need myman.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Why you say either I didn't say I didn't need you.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
We go talk in the car .
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Don't do that.
Don't put words in my mouth,and you better edit it out too.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
So it's like instances out there in the
outside world where it's justlike it's clear as day that we
aren't being protected by blackmen, even when it comes to Black
Lives Matter and all that.
And you hear about the you knowblack men getting killed and
then their tweets come out wherethey're like fuck a black woman
.
I wouldn't even fuck a blackdog unless it was a white dog.
(48:51):
Remember that last dude thatgot shot and everybody was like
now we just gonna.
The black women were just likenow we gonna sit this one out
right, yeah there are too manyinstances now where black women
are just like.
We're gonna sit this one outI'm in my fafo.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Hello, hey y'all.
What y'all doing out there?
Speaker 2 (49:08):
in them streets.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Help me understand what that means yeah, it's funny
, but I will say, for the pastthree years since I've met steph
from childhood all the way upto adulthood, right, it wasn't
until like three years ago thatI realized what protection was
(49:33):
and feeling like someone hadyour back, like I'm fully, 100%
protected emotionally,spiritually, mentally, and it
wasn't until I met Steph, I'vealways had to be 100 hundred
percent independent, like fullyindependent, like run my own
shit, independent, right.
So?
And we did have a little bit ofum same thing being independent
(49:56):
for so long where you finallymeet a man and you don't
necessarily know how to treatthem because you've been
independent for so long.
You don't know how to besubmissive Submissive to who?
Submissive to what?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Exactly.
And then it's the aggressionthat comes with it, and not
aggression in an angry sense.
It's the head of household,it's the.
I'm the provider, it's the Itake care of shit, like you know
, making sure my kids never lackfor anything Roof over their
head.
Like, just know, making sure mykids never lack for anything
(50:29):
roof over their head.
Like, just being thatEverything that a man is
supposed to be.
I was the man.
So when I met a man, I was stillacting like I had that,
figuratively speaking, like Ihad that dick right.
So it was hard to reallyfeminize myself because, again,
personal, corporate, just allaround.
(50:51):
I was that person.
I had a lot of masculinity inme.
I still do.
It's just that, that protection, that knowing that I'm good.
Like before, I can be honestwith you, I never slept at night
, never slept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right.
I met this man and I can behonest with you, I never slept
at night, never slept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right.
I met this man and I can sleeplike, and he's like, baby, you
(51:14):
was dead to the world.
Like, how do you do it?
that's good and I tell him allthe time I never slept before.
I have you, so I can sleep, Ican be at peace.
I can be at ease.
I can be at ease and I've never, ever, ever had that in life
like ever.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
That protection, that , that just knowing that I'm
good I've never had that until Imet Steph yeah, I just want to
applaud that, even at this stagein life, you were able to
recognize it and change it.
Girl, I ain't trying to lose myman, exactly, but we're going
to talk about that on anotherepisode, because I think that's
a problem.
(51:54):
Women just be too strong andI'm one of them.
But it's about approach.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
See, because I'm headstrong, I'm very stubborn,
like I'm very black and white.
There's never a gray area.
I'm very.
If you tell me this is whatneeds to be done, or, babe, I
have this business idea, I'm theone researching and I'll be
back to you in 48 business hoursand letting you know, don't put
that standard out there.
No, that's just me.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
That's just me no no, this one will hear this and be
like can you get it to me in 48hours.
48 hours, that'll be our nextthing around the house 47 will
be even better.
I told you he my Zola.
I cannot deal with that.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Okay now put that out there, so like that's just how
I am right.
Yeah, but when I met Steph, itwasn't even intentionally like I
was trying.
It was almost like he broughtout the femininity in me.
Like I said, I'm still verymasculine in a certain sense I'm
very much in my soft girl era.
(52:55):
Before I was lifting shit girl,now I'm just like oh stuff,
give me some.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I can't do it like this is too heavy.
It's too heavy you be carrying22 grand she of bags at one time
.
Like oh, this is too tight.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
You know, and he just brings, he, you know, brings
that out, naturally.
It's not something that I try todo, it's not something that I
can genuinely just be a womanand not have to worry about
certain things.
And when you know you have agood person that's standing
behind you, it's one of thosethings where you just naturally
want to conform Now, I'm notsaying lose your identity, you
(53:38):
know, in this person because atthe end of the day it's still
just you, right.
But I love him enough to knowthat, ok, I need to fall back on
certain things, but then oncertain things I just nah, you
ain't going to.
No, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
I get it and I will say two things here One thing
about her and what I said whenwe introduced ourselves.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
We said wives first, because that's still our primary
job, so no matter what happensout in the corporate, world we
still have to show up and work,because that's the role that
matters the most, right, likeyeah, I'm his wife, you know his
wife, then mother, and then Iwork for them folks.
But it's just, that's the rolethat's the most important, the
(54:28):
most fundamental, the most likebeneficial.
That's the role that matters tome.
Say mother first, but no, fuckthem kids.
I did FDK girl.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
You know what, zoma?
I'm starting to see you, girl,I'm coming to see you.
I FDK all the time here.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
No, I you know I'm emotional, so I'm trying to keep
it together here.
But I love you, I appreciateyou.
I love you too, baby.
Speaker 4 (54:56):
Aww, look at him.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Look at him.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
I love you too, baby.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
No, baby, I love you, do it All right.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
So, so magic wand, what's the one thing if you
could change?
You got this magic wand and youcould change one thing.
You know that you're having toovercome daily, and not just for
yourself, but for other youngladies who are currently in
school learning, who are goingto be facing.
You know our daughter's incollege right now.
She's she's at Howard, so Godknows.
She's going to have an uphillbattle, especially in today's
climate.
(55:29):
If you could change one thing,what would it be?
Speaker 1 (55:31):
That HBCU is going to help her, just because it's a
different experience.
If you never went to one.
I promote those.
But one thing that I will say,if I could change in the world
for my daughter, that she wouldnot have to battle, or any of
the black ladies or young ladiesthat are going through is to
(55:52):
not be seen by color first.
Yeah, because we already haveto fight being a woman, but to
be seen as a black woman, youalready got a double-head sword.
I know they say that men haveit hard, black men have it hard
y' men have it hard.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Y'all got it harder, I know that.
Yeah, I know for a fact.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I could sit with one of the boys and go out with them
and whatever.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Right, you have it hard.
Black men don't get it wrong,they have it hard navigating
society outside All the bullshit, right.
We have it hard when we open oureyes.
So, from the time we open oureyes, the time we speak our
first word, the way we move ourbody, the way we comb our hair,
the way we put our clothes on,any and everything before we
(56:37):
even step out the door, is onething we have.
Is our hair in a ponytail or doit need to be flowing down our
back?
Is it too short?
Is it too kinky?
Is it the right color?
Is our makeup overly dramaticor is it undertone?
(56:57):
If our lashes are too long, ifit's not?
You know all those, everyexpression of who we are.
Some people appreciate, somepeople don't.
It's getting critiqued.
I don't want that for my child.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
Well, again, it's like that perfect utopia right
Black and white.
There is no gray area.
Reality is what it is.
The racial aggression, what'sin the system now is only going
to be magnified.
It's not going away.
I actually see it getting worsefor generations to come.
And because this generation iskind of low key, complicit, like
I see a lot of the things thatpeople fought for in the past.
I see a lot of those thingscoming back and we're seeing it
(57:36):
now.
A lot of these things arecoming back.
You know laws being revoked.
It's playing out right in frontof our faces.
So this generation is a littlebit more complicit with then.
You know more and you hear them.
You know talking about oh we'renot our ancestors, and blah,
blah.
Yeah, you're right, you're notyour ancestors, right?
I'm not saying we have to beout there in the streets
(57:57):
protesting or whatever, becausethey are trying to evoke that
negative emotion from us inorder to do something more
extreme.
I understand that, but I don'twith the racial climate.
I don't see things gettingbetter.
So my contribution would be to,especially for Black, young
Black girls, would be to armthem with as much knowledge that
(58:20):
I've learned along the wayalong the journey as to what
they can expect.
It's almost like grooming themto survive in corporate America.
Expect.
It's almost like grooming themto survive in corporate America.
Like, yes, we shouldn't have todo it, but the reality is that
we do have to do it andunfortunately you know a lot of
the scholars that are excellingnow they don't necessarily come
(58:41):
from women who have been groomedor have that, have had that
exposure.
So it should be taught at anHBCU Code switching 101, right,
surviving corporate America 101.
Like these are skills that needto be taught.
Like it really does, like itsounds, oh, it's not necessary.
No, it is very much necessary.
(59:02):
Like this, especially at anHBCU, that needs to be taught.
Allison's at an advantage bygrowing up with me, she sees I
don't sugarcoat anything from mydaughter or hide anything from
my daughter, so she knows shecan code switch on you real
quick.
You know she's had practice andthe environments that she's
been in like have been a lot ofyou know, predominantly white
(59:22):
environments, but so sheunderstands the importance of it
.
But that would be mycontribution is just equipping
black women, or young blackwomen, with the knowledge on how
to survive, how to navigate theworld.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
I'll encourage a lot of men who have their wives in
those environments to understand, because I think that innately
for us as men, you know,especially when we got hard jobs
, we go out and we do somethingright.
We just we go work, and becausewe face not the same things but
we face our own set ofchallenges.
So when we go out, shit washard, we did this, we did that.
(59:55):
We come home and we expect youto be our comfort and be our
peace and everything else, notthinking twice about what you're
needing and what you had to putup with and the masks that you
had to wear all day long and howexhausting that is, especially
if the man has a physical job.
The mental exhaustion is a lotworse than physical exhaustion.
(01:00:17):
So I encourage them to kind ofthink back and have more of
these conversations to figureout how they can support their
women better, because it'ssomething that I have to be
reminded of every once in awhile.
I'm glad we had thisconversation so I could be more
cognizant of it.
I like it Earlier today.
I lost the goddamn coin.
Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
toss yeah yeah, yeah, you did.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, you did.
So what that means is that Iget to do the outro and you guys
have to decide who I'm supposedto be impersonating Morgan
Freeman.
Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Morgan.
Yeah, we can do, morgan, it'sgoing to suck.
All right, you just got to godeep.
Go deep, morgan is very deep.
He's very deep In the beginning.
Yeah, you got to go deep.
Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
In the beginning.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
If you're not already following the show, I encourage
you to hit that follow button.
What are you doing?
Go deeper, deeper, all right,then leave us a review, a
glorious five-star review.
It really helps us grow.
Join us next week when theconversation takes an ominous
(01:01:26):
turn as we recount two storiesfrom our co-host facing death
then getting a second chance atlife.
Thank you so much for tuning inand have a great week.
Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
That's funny.
That was good.
That was more like his brotherMorris.
Speaker 5 (01:01:44):
That was Morris.
Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
That was Morris you.
He said I don't want the inventory manager because I
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough, I'mstill learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
You shit me.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
(00:20):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Sounds about right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Wow.
So the spotlight could havebeen on me.
Yeah, everyone around me knewit should have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What's going on everyone?
Today's episode is one for thebooks.
We're switching gears andshining the spotlight on two
phenomenal women.
Zola these two are steppinginto the studio to break down
(01:04):
what it's really like tonavigate the shark infested
waters of corporate America asblack women, from boardrooms to
backhanded compliments.
They're pulling no punches andgiving us the unfiltered truth
with grace, style and just theright amount of fire.
And oh, by the way, listen,we're also kicking off a brand
(01:29):
new tradition today.
It's called the celebrity outrochallenge.
So we flipped the coin beforethe show, before we hit record
and the losers gotta close outthe show with a bad celebrity
impression.
Stick around to find out who'sgetting roasted.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
So thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh hey.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Absolutely.
Thank you for being here.
I appreciate you guys so, sovery much for doing this.
This is going to be aninteresting topic because it's
one that we kind of touched on afew episodes ago.
We talked about the blackstereotypes, and one of them was
black women are angry and loud.
We talked about where thatstereotype comes from, and then
(02:26):
we touched on microaggressionsat work what you guys have to
face and deal with every day.
So why don't we just go aroundintroducing ourselves and then
we'll just get right into theconversation?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
All right, I am Patrice Nash.
I am the wife of Willie Nashand the mother of Marian Thomas.
I mentioned those because thoseare my jobs every day and I
also work as a sourcing wellsenior category manager.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I know people don't know what that means I know
right what is that.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I basically look at contracts and do big deal
negotiations for a fortune 10company, wow yeah.
And then I also own my owncompany called perfect
perfections.
I do events as well as interiordesign.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's awesome, and how long have you been at with
your current career?
How long have you been doingthat?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
so with McKesson, I've been with them for 15 years
for my company.
I started as a real company.
I established it in 2018.
Got it.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Willie, we know you are.
It's not about you and me,brother, but I'm glad to have
you here, man.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Man, glad to be here.
I'm glad to be back.
You know it's been a while.
Yes, sir, you know, feelinglike I'm at home again, yeah,
let feeling like.
I'm at home again.
Let's do it.
I don't have to introducemyself.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
No, you don't.
You know, everybody knowsyou're always late to this, but
it's funny because I said thismorning I went to get some
coffee and donuts and I'm comingback and Willie's already here.
I'm like she truly is the bestpart of you, because now you're
15 minutes early, because she'sshowing up.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
That's right, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
My showing up.
That's right, that's so funny,my better half.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I am stickler about time.
There's a lot of stuff I don'tplay about.
Time is what I am.
I am Willie, willie is me.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And for the first time, I have my lovely,
beautiful wife on the pod.
For the first time.
She's been trying to get awayfrom this.
She's been running away everytime I've asked her.
There's always a reason,something's not happening.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's just not my thing.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I know, and that's why there's no video today.
I'm not even taking photos.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, yeah.
So, babe, introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I'm Steph's wife.
Of course my name is Zola I, Ofcourse my name is Zola.
I work in private equity.
I've been doing with my currentcompany for about seven years
now.
Very interesting, so we'll diga little deeper into the
conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
For sure, Gotcha.
And let me ask you both whatlevel of schooling did you
attain?
I got my GED, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I know, you got a high school diploma, we would
not be the guests for a GED andsome college you might not have
graduated but you went.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
You went to college.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You attempted it.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I was there for the student loans.
They're looking for me rightnow.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I have a bachelor's degree from the Xavier
University of Louisiana, hbcuproud.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Oh man, I have my MBA .
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So let's talk about the biggest challenges that you
face, simply not because youhave that job and that position,
but either one of you can speakto this because you are a black
woman in that space.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, you know me, me .
I've been working since I waslike 15, right?
None of my supervisors haveever been black, so I have been
groomed to talk that talk, walkthat walk and show up as what's
expected, right?
So it's not anything new.
(06:06):
It's almost like code switching, like that's exactly what it's
called.
It's called code switchingwhere it's like innate to me, it
comes so natural.
Where it's like in the parkinglot, I'm like shit, yep.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
I got to put it on, even in the mornings.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Like don't talk to me in the mornings, like I need
time to mentally prepare becauseit's a draining experience,
right, but again it's embeddedin me.
So if I come home and I'm likeI'm tired, like it's not a
physical thing, it's just I ammentally drained.
So the expectation is I leavethe house a certain way but I
(06:44):
need to show up a certain wayand I have to be mindful of how
I show up.
Like I can't just show up andnot show all of my 32.
I need hi.
Good morning, how are you?
Did you have a good night?
Like you have to do that right.
Very engaging.
I can come in and just be likegood morning and go to my office
(07:06):
Right, I can't do that.
But Amanda, she can walk in,not say a word and she's
perfectly good.
Oh, you know, amanda is justbeing Amanda, but Zola comes in
walks to her office.
Oh she's, she's so rude.
Well, you know why is she beingso rude this morning?
Or she might be a little bitaggressive today.
Don't go in there.
She didn't come in and you know, like so it's, it's just a
(07:28):
little.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You ain't chucking and jiving that morning.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Exactly, whereas I can't come in and just be me.
I can't come in and just belike everybody else.
I have to come in andoutperform.
I have to come in and do dothat dance, just to be accepted
in that space.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
So what was the original question?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You've answered it.
Oh you know, for the most part.
I mean there's a whole lot moreto go into because you and I've
had this conversation.
I'll be on the phone with her.
You know we're just talkingthrough maybe the ride to work
or whatever.
And she gets into the officeand I hear the most jovial,
happy person because she'ssaying hi to everyone and
smiling and I'm like the fuckhappened.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
He go.
You must've just walked in theoffice.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And I realized this is what happens.
Right, it's lights, cameraaction, it's an act and you have
to turn it on because you can'tafford not to Right.
What about you, patrice?
What are you running into?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
For me, currently it's a lot better because on the
flip side, I now have a VPwho's African-American woman.
So she's already set that barof bring your authentic self to
work.
So I have that defense becauseshe's like over the entire
department and I have a greatrelationship with her because
(08:51):
she's helped me along in mycareer recently.
But in hindsight, I talked to alot of suppliers who are, you
know, vps of companies.
You know VPs of companies,directors of companies.
They are majority Caucasian menwho have basically told me that
I don't know enough to tell themwhat they're going to do with
(09:13):
their company, but I do knowenough to tell you what I'm not
going to do with ours.
So I have to fight that battle.
So I start off, you know, withthe code switching Hi, how are
you guys doing?
But I'm learning that in thatthey think they could play in my
face for the most part, um, andit's quickly turned around to
the no, no, that's not whatwe're going to do.
(09:34):
So when they get hit with that,no, no, they already no, no, no
you have to check them yeah.
You have to come in like, okay,let me tell you what we're not
going to do.
And then it's like, oh, okay,so it's not that I'm not trying
to be the angry black woman, butI'm not going to be the little
black girl that you want,putting me in a position to
(09:55):
where that's my only go-to yes,and you can't lead that way.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You can't show up that way, because then
automatically you know what theyalready thought of you is.
Well, there you go, she'sproving it Right.
So you show up with all thepleasantries and the
professionalism and then you gettested.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes.
Now what I do know in my careeron the corporate side is when
they ask me my opinion, I don'tstart with the issue.
I try to start with thepositive and then bring it back
with the issue, but in with thepositive.
And they say, that's easy, butyou especially have to do it as
a black woman, because if Ileave with the issue.
(10:32):
They already think I'm theproblem, so I can't start with
that part.
I have to be like well,everything is great, you know, I
don't see any issues with this,but this could be a concern for
someone else in this way.
And then it turns into you knowwhat the issue is, but I can't
start with y'all fucking up, youknow, because then they hear me
(10:56):
as oh, you the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Is it us or is it you ?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You mentioned something a little while ago
that I know, that black women ingeneral have struggled and
dealt with.
You have a black manager, right, your VP, the person you report
to.
She's a black woman.
So I've had discussions Onefriend for example.
She was saying that hermanager's black.
But I think what happened isthis black woman has had to
prove herself so much that sheshows up that way all the time
(11:21):
and she was miserable to workfor.
So do you find that, instead ofhaving some type of alliance in
not just this current position,but in any position you both
have had to, where you've had todeal with another black woman,
instead of an alliance, wasthere some kind of conflict?
Because she was black andinstead of looking out for you
and being that mentor that shecould be, it was the opposite?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I've had issues with lower management positions, not
higher.
So when you're still at thatpoint in your career where
you're trying to prove yourself,I think black women can come
off, as I can't let this otherwoman it's not even like saying,
black woman, I can't letanybody in my department show me
up so they might notnecessarily have your back as
(12:06):
much.
In front of everyone they'requick to say, oh girl, you know,
I already know what's going on,but when it comes to the time
when it counts, they're stillout for themselves.
With my VP, she is moresolidified in her career.
She's older lady, she has donewhat she needs to do.
We had a very candidconversation when I started.
(12:29):
She was like I need your helpwith this department to start it
.
And I was like I'm sorry, but Idon't trust people with my
career.
And she was like trust me thisone time.
If I fail, you point it out,but trust me this one time.
And that was powerful 2020 andI've.
For five years I've beentrusting her and she has been
(12:51):
showing up and showing out and Igive her her flowers all the
time because I don't thinkenough people reach back and say
you know, I'll bring you withme on my journey yeah so for her
to be able to do that with me.
It's only right that I say youknow what I appreciate you for
everything you've done, becauseI've worked with a white woman
(13:11):
and me and that help her.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I remember her.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You had to hear about it a lot.
She stayed two doors down fromus.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So, I'd be willing to set her damn house on fire.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
She's this day, right now.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
No, she don't stay in the house.
She didn't move.
Y'all made a move.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
We didn't necessarily make a move.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
But her working.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I'll get into that, we'll revisit that.
But I didn't work with thatwoman.
Baby, let me tell you I almostlost myself.
That's when I couldn't codeswitch no more.
I had to go off on her in heroffice.
I'm like I don't like you, youdon't like me, I don't trust you
, you don't trust me.
But I'm going to tell you whatyou're not going to do.
You're not going to play withmy livelihood.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, we got through that.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
We did.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
We have evolved, but this new VP, she really likes me
, she does, she really lovesWillie.
That's what matters.
That's what matters, she likesme.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
She really loves.
She's like how is Willie, thatis my friend, I'm like that is
not your friend.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I'm just playing.
She's a really, really genuineperson, god-fearing, and she's
God-fearing to the point whereshe don't have to say I'm
God-fearing.
You just see it right like you,you know those people, they
right, they got something ontheir life yeah that's her
that's the only you know.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
We're not gonna get into religion, but that's the
only type of people that, whenyou talk about God that I
respect.
You live it and I can see itthrough you.
You don't have to keep sayingit.
Yes, I can see it through you.
You don't have to keep sayingit.
Yes, I can see it based on youractions.
Exactly.
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So I guess, like I said, I've never had a black
supervisor in any capacity, nota team leader, not a known in
management, it's not necessarilymore so someone of the same
race keeping me down, but inevery company I've always been
(15:07):
the token black right, yeah, um,the current company.
Right now, when I came in,there's a black guy there, but
girl, he don't count, if youknow what I'm saying yeah, okay,
yeah he's, he's, he's them,yeah, I mean down to the wife,
the, the expectation, right, see, all we had to do was see each
other.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You saw how she gave me a look and I get out.
Yeah, I don't even know.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
So I understand that she stole me.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I guess you know I came in and I, you know, did my
90 days and they were like great, they're acceptable.
You know what I mean.
They can perform, they can do,and they brought in you know a
black receptionist and then youknow a black accountant and you
know, but it kind of hard, pause, you open the diversity.
(15:53):
Exactly, it was like you know,kind of for them Like oh OK,
it's up there with.
They speak so well you know,they speak so well you know.
But then when those women camein and the way they came in, I'm
(16:14):
like y'all ain't going to fuckthis up for me.
Yeah, right, because again I'veworked very hard to be the code
switcher, that I am Right Likey'all ain't just going to come
up in here and fuck my shit up,right.
So we have to to we're areflection of each other.
Yes, so in that sense,respectfully, I've had the
conversation with them likelisten, this is a first for this
company.
This company has been aroundforever and of the 300 people,
(16:38):
we're the only three right now.
I was a test run.
I said it to them just likethat.
I'm a test run and with thattest run I performed.
So here you two go right.
So there's a way you need tolook, there's a way you need to
speak, there's things that youneed to leave at the door and
when you come in, you have to bethis way.
(16:59):
You have to.
This is how they're looking atyou and what they're expecting.
So it's like I had to give themthe code switch in working in
corporate America 101.
And they weren't necessarilyresistant to it.
They were actually veryappreciative for the feedback
because that allowed them to,and I noticed the changes like,
(17:21):
immediately after thatconversation, the way they dress
.
You know there was no justbecause we're black women in the
office, there's no sister girltalk right.
We save that for when we bumpinto each other in the bathroom
or in the kitchen.
You know like that, thatone-on-one thing.
But when, when?
Even when the eyes aren'twatching, the eyes are watching
(17:41):
right, and we have to be held toa certain standard and kept at
a certain standard in order tobe in the environment that we're
in.
There's not a lot of blackwomen, there's not a lot of
minorities, period, not a lot ofeven white.
There are not a lot of whitewomen in the sector that I'm in.
So, now that we are here,regardless of our position the
(18:02):
janitor, the receptionist, itdoesn't matter we still have to
come in and perform at a certainand it's unfortunate, it's very
, very unfortunate that we haveto be this way, but if we want
to get that money, that's what Iwas going to say.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Is it in coaching them and showing them how to be,
how to code switch and all ofthat?
Is there an argument forsomeone saying yeah, but you're
not?
You're teaching people how tocode switch and all of that?
Is there an argument forsomeone saying yeah, but you're
not?
You're teaching people how, nothow to not be authentic um
could not give a fuck about yourauthentic self.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You better not show up as your authentic self I
always tell people be yourauthentic self when it's
authentic okay, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
and?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I mean when you're in a meeting with somebody.
That's a duty.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
That's a job.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
That's something like your duties assigned.
So why are you trying to beauthentic?
When I'm having a conversation,like she said, that sidebar
conversation, be yourself, bewho you want to be.
But when you are representingthe company, you're not
authentically the company.
When you leave that nine tofive, you don't authentically
the company.
When you leave that nine tofive, you don't live their life,
(19:08):
you don't live that brand,you're not all that stuff.
So you absorb what you need toabsorb then and when you're
saying code switch, it's not abad thing.
You can't expect I can't expectto make a deal for 30 million
dollars for our company and belike, um, you know what I'm
saying, we ain't gonna be doingit, you know?
Yeah, I don't need to focus.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
That's not how I speak on a day-to-day, though
like when I say code switchingno but like no, no, but when I
show up and I'm speaking withsomeone, this is pretty much how
I sound, because I didn't growup in the hood, like you know, I
(19:51):
didn't have that experience.
But I can keep it real and havethat girl to girl girlfriend
conversation with my peers,right, when I'm comfortable, but
when I'm comfortable, yeah,comfortable, but when I'm
comfortable, yeah.
So code switching for me is inthese spaces, in these corporate
spaces, like you always have tobe on.
Because here's the thing,corporate America is a game and
(20:14):
no one is ever your friend, ever, right, so I have to be in my
comfort zone.
Like you know, the one and twopeople that I'm in my comfort
zone with at work, but for themost part, all my other
counterparts, however friendlythey may be, they will never see
that other side of me.
They will never see that, thatI'm kicking it, that you know,
(20:36):
oh, let's hang out Like.
They will never see that,because it's a game, everybody
is just trying to excel and makeit to the top.
And the fact that I am there intheir space girl, I'd be walking
in the kitchen just to get ayogurt from the fridge and these
folks look terrified and I haveto be.
I have to disarm them like hey,good morning, you know, I'm
just here to grab a yogurt.
(20:57):
Like they have never been inenvironments, especially
one-on-one situations you can'sclear as day right for a
dark-skinned sister to walk intothe kitchen.
I tell you it is exhausting.
So when I come home and I tellsteph that I am drained and I
don't have the bandwidth, I haveto do a lot of tap dancing to
collect this check.
It's not easy.
(21:18):
It's not easy at all.
And unfortunately they do sayshow up as your authentic self.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
but that is bullshit that does not apply to me.
They say it, they live it, likeour company tells you.
You know, we even have the deiprograms.
You know because I am in theblack excellence you kept it
alive I'm always gonna be blackevery day.
I tell them every day you me,you're going to see me black at
(21:44):
first, but I have made it souncomfortable for others because
I'm too old, I've been with thecompany too long.
I've got to that point whereI'm like, if you let me go,
hopefully it's with severance.
So if I calculate the amount ofweeks that you're going to pay
me, I don't do nothing to losethe job.
(22:09):
But you know if you're lookingat the people and you want to
cut some head count, okay, I gotthese years in.
I'm good, but I get it LikeI've had to do both.
I've had to live where, when Icame in, I had to tap dance on
everything.
I couldn't be the aggressiveblack woman, even though I was
in operations that you had to beassertive.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It's not even that you were going to be the
aggressive black woman.
You just couldn't expressanything because if you did, it
was going to be misconstrued asbeing aggressive.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, no, I could express it, but they couldn't
hear me because, like I said, Ibrought the problem first and
then I'll be like, okay, no, no,your problem is this.
Let me give you a solution.
They didn't hear the solution,all they heard was the problem.
You have to speak their languagein order for them to understand
so it was like I and I couldhave two white guys that
(22:59):
reported to me, one that waslike my homeboy, but he's still
white like we.
And I say homeboy because tothis day men, all of us are
still cool like they've advancedin their career.
They're playing the game likethey need to play.
They've advanced higher than meand I'm okay with that because
we know they are white men thatfit that corporate they don't
have to do much.
(23:20):
They don't have to do much rightnow don't get me wrong, they
are very smart in everythingthat they do.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
They're still qualified, but there's nothing
going against them.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
But their struggles are not the same struggles,
correct, so we could be sittingthere.
I've told them before themeeting what I'm going to
present.
They're like, yep, that's right, I agree, we need to do that.
I go to the meeting, I getlooked at as the issue.
Then they sit back, wait twominutes and say, well, I'm a
circle back and I think we needto do that what Patrice said.
(23:50):
They'll even say my name and weneed to do X, y and Z.
You know what you were rightyou are.
I think that's what we're goingto do.
That's fucking insane.
Well, what the hell?
We've been mean for an extra 30minutes and I told y'all that
when I first came in.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I know I say that to you all the time.
It sounds like a skip, Likeit's like I'm watching some kind
of reality and you're likesomeone made that shit up.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
There's no way.
I would put it like this therewas recently a black woman in
history who told us all the shitwe was finna face.
She was qualified, had everydegree, had went through every
level of politics, fought herway to the top.
She told everybody here's theblueprint that these white folks
(24:33):
wrote for y'all.
And this is what's going tohappen.
I'm telling you, I will fightfor you.
And where is she?
Oh, crickets, yeah.
So that's what I'm saying.
If the woman at this level,with all these accolades, can go
through all of this and nobodyshowed up for her.
(24:54):
That's why we say we're not.
And she light-skinned.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
She light-skinned black.
She light-skinned black.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
She was the one she was acceptable in all circles of
what we could even potentiallybe in.
Yeah, white husband didn't havea child so she could fight with
her career, so she didn't haveto balance home life versus work
life.
Then she got all the degrees.
I mean, you know, she couldtalk the talk.
(25:22):
She don't win and fall in othercountries for our rights and
they accept her in othercountries more than we accept
her.
And the only people that showedup for her was black women, a
few black men, don't get mewrong.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I understand that and I exactly, but we're not going
to get into politics.
But I told Steph the reason shedid not win was because for the
four years she was in officeshe never showed up.
She didn't start no lunchinitiative.
She didn't go out there andplant no trees.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
She did not but that's what y'all want her for
Obama, for Michelle.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
But, michelle, if you take what you can't, I don't
mean to say I don't mean tooverride you, but you cannot say
you're going to run for thehighest position in the United
States.
Meanwhile you were silent thepast four years.
That's like being mediocre forfour years and me showing up to
my boss talking about somethingI want to raise.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
But let me ask you this Was she silent or did the
media not portray her?
Because when you go back to it,I think it's not.
I don't think she wasnecessarily silent.
I really don't, because when welook at the HBCU bills, that was
her.
When we look at the studentloans, who fought with Biden to
(26:38):
make sure that was her.
But they put Biden's name on itlike they have done every vice
president before.
But they put Biden's name on itlike they have done every vice
president before.
If you look at any previousvice president, they wasn't in
there showing all the thingsthat they did.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
But they didn't have to fight like her.
But attention spans are short,right.
So coming off Biden was Obamaand Biden coming.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But what did Biden do ?
Hold on.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
But you never saw Obama without seeing Biden
somewhere in the back looking ina corner.
So his presence was always atthe forefront in some way shape
or form.
Now I don't know if it'sbecause you know she was a black
woman or what the deal was, whyshe was never.
You know, whenever you sawBiden, you saw Kamala somewhere
in the back.
(27:21):
You know she was just neverthere, somewhere in the back.
You know she was just neverthere.
I don't know if her absence wasintentional, but she was just
never present in the way thatshe should have been.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And my question would be was it because, or initially
, she wasn't running?
It was always going to bebiting, but we kept calling him
sleepy joe.
Which hell, I take sleepy joe,go to sleep.
But if we, and it's like shecouldn't outshadow the white man
, but then she can't be in thebackground without saying, look
(27:53):
at me, look at me, I'm here.
So that's the battle I fight.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
and that means she was just complicit to her
position, right?
She never took the initiativeto inject herself, and when she
tried to inject herself, it'salmost like it's too late Again.
You can't be mediocre.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Showing up.
Did she try to inject herself,or did the press then start
focusing on her?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
But it's not a matter of the press.
There are other social mediaplatforms where you can be
active.
I can get that, so you don'thave to necessarily need
mainstream media to be active,especially as it pertains to the
black community.
Right, you got the clout whereshade room will post you.
Right, you got the clout wherehollywood unlocked they will
(28:35):
post you.
That means so many social mediasites that target black people,
and she even her own page again.
If you want to keep your peoplelike, you have to interact with
them in some way, shape or form, and when you're silent on your
people and not speaking up whenyou want us to show up, you're
not necessarily going to get thethe the correct response.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I get what you're saying.
I I debate it.
But I know we said no politics,but I debate it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
We'll argue later, yes, open some wine.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Because I guess because she was such a pivotal
part of the HBCU community, Ifollowed her more so I paid
attention to what she did withthe black doctors, the OBGYN,
the mortality, all these thingsbefore it became part of her
campaign, all these thingsbefore it became part of her
campaign.
But I also recognize, and evenin my career, that example I was
(29:30):
given.
I could sit there and doeverything perfect.
I'll use the example of reallife.
What pissed me off and why?
I related to what was happeningto her when I got the job at my
DC and that's what brought usto Atlanta.
The DC was underperforming.
It was having issues withemployees, union conversations,
(29:53):
issues.
They brought me on to turn itaround in inventory.
They were like we're losingmillions of dollars in inventory
.
We we ran a very marginal likeloss that you could had to be
like 0.003 percent of lossbecause we're thinking about
drugs here.
Okay drugs.
She's a drug dealer I was a drugdealer at that time, so I come
(30:22):
from memphis to atl DC hard toturn around.
Within two months we doneturned it around.
We have everything accountable.
We got everything going.
We're fixing things.
We could see everythinghappening.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
That's an extremely quick turnaround.
Right Two months.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
It was just some processes and that wasn't in
place.
Just knowing the process thatwe ran in Memphis that I learned
bring them here, execute them,tailor it to what is needed here
, keep it going OK.
Again, my white counterpart whowas the assistant inventory
manager.
He said I don't want theinventory manager because I
(31:01):
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough.
I'm still learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
You should me.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Exactly so.
The spotlight could have beenon me.
Everyone around me knew itshould have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done and this white womansaying no, no, I don't want to
(31:41):
listen to her because I can'ttell from her facial expressions
if she's serious or not.
What the fuck you mean?
If I said it, I was serious.
If I emailed you, I was seriousIf I told you in our
one-on-ones, I was serious justbecause I didn't.
Hey, you know what I'm saying.
We need to do this now.
(32:02):
Then I'll be the angry blackwoman.
I'm trying to do it with asmile to try to keep the morale
here, but this person, who goteven a chippier smile than me,
tells y'all the same thing.
Well, I can listen to him.
He knows you're going to givehim the accolades again.
So, no matter what she did, shewasn't going to get it because
(32:22):
of the color of her skin.
So it's debatable.
Yeah, she could have been outthere Look at me, look at me.
But then she would have beenthe black woman that feels like
she got to upstage the president.
So where do you find thatbalance For me?
I had to find a balance andmove away from that department
because I found that that wasn'tconducive to what I needed in
(32:43):
my life.
It was causing me to come hometo him and not be able to give
my all, when somebody can sitthere and tell me you need to
tell your husband to walk yourkids to the bus stop because I
expect you to be here longer.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
And I ain't walking no kids to the bus stop, Exactly
Like man.
What are you talking about,Willie?
I ain't walking no kids to thebus stop and I had to tell her.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I'm sorry, I know your husband's a stay at home
husband, but mine has a job.
He's the head of our household.
You're the head of yourhousehold.
No, no, ma'am, I will walk mykids to the bus and try to fire
me.
And again, I'm with the companyand she's not because I had to
stand my ground and tell her no.
(33:24):
But you know all the thingsthat I had to go through to even
get told you were right.
I had to document, I had tohave conversations with every
single person.
Tell them I need you to go tothis person and have a
conversation to combat what thisone person said, why I was damn
near on my deathbed because shewanted to lie and say I didn't
(33:46):
know.
And everybody believed her.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I didn't know yeah, yeah, yeah, the shit you guys go
through receipts I keep areceipt I keep a receipt.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I do not communicate over the phone, I do not
communicate face to face inoffice and if I do, I always
send an email following up withour discussion and I reiterate
every single thing that wasdiscussed, because you can never
say, oh no, and I will find myreceipts.
That's just.
That's just how it is.
I keep telling people corporateAmerica is a game, like it's a
(34:20):
game, and you have to know howto play it.
Like she was saying, I'veexperienced that too, where you
say something but they don'thear you.
Right, and it took me a fewtries, or a few instances
instances is a better word ittook me a few instances to
realize what it is.
And you're absolutely correct.
Being a black woman, you cannotstart.
It could be a meeting regardinga problem about the problem how
(34:43):
are we going to fix the problem?
It could be a meeting regardinga problem about the problem how
we're going to fix the problempertaining to the problem, right
?
Because there's six meetingsfor that.
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I know right.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
But you can if it's a meeting about the problem.
As a black woman, you can'tstart off with attacking the
problem.
Your white counterparts can.
They can even say the problemis this, right?
We can't say the problem isthis, you have to ease into it,
right, you have to pacify themess.
You have to pacify them andthen gently ease into what the
(35:14):
issue is and how, what yoursolution is for it.
But you can't go into anymeeting, especially as a black
woman, directly addressing theproblem.
You have to let everyone knowwhat the company has been doing
great so far, which is bullshit,because if you were doing great
so far, we wouldn't have thisproblem.
Yep, but you have to go intowhat we've been doing great so
(35:37):
far as a team and you have tohighlight your supervisors or
your direct managers.
You know their contributions,you know and then ease into well
, you know we've stumbled intothis obstacle.
We've stumbled into thisobstacle where you know this is
what's happening and how do werectify that, and then you can't
(35:59):
even necessarily take creditfor it to say I think you have
to say, well, as a team, weshould, we should, or as a team,
we've reviewed and concludedthat this might be the best
solution.
You can't say I, zola, as inblack, zola, you, you know, I
can deliver, I can present, butI can't take credit, for it has
(36:22):
to be as a team, and if mysupervisor or my superior is
really legit and about that shit, he'll be like no, this was
Zola's idea and give me thecredit where credit is due.
But I dare not stand in frontof a room and take credit and
say I did, or I think that's notacceptable.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
You know how many emails.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I have with.
We Is this 2025?
Speaker 4 (36:44):
This is 2025.
You know how many emails I haveis this?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
2025.
This is 2025.
You know how many emails Istart off with we and I am an
individual contributor like whothe fuck is we?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
who is?
Speaker 4 (36:52):
willie like who is?
Speaker 1 (36:52):
this we.
If he saw the emails where Isaid we have come to the
conclusion and he'll be like whothe fuck is we?
I literally have to go call myboss and be like hey, so I'm
gonna put we on here, but I justwant you to know what I'm gonna
tell these folks.
He'll be like hey, so I'm goingto put we on here, but I just
want you to know what I'm goingto tell these folks.
He'll be like go with it.
Okay, we good.
I just don't want nobody to sayyou don't want no surprises.
So I'm letting you know how I'mcoming at them, because I
(37:13):
luckily don't code switch withmy boss as much.
I still don't get all the waylike I am at home.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Because, unlike Zola, I'm not polished at all, but
again, I don't have anyone therethat necessarily looks like me
in a higher position that's Ican't.
I don't have anyone, that lookslike me, that's even my equal
to protect you from that exactly.
So I have to be this way allday, every day, yeah yeah, I get
it.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
I think you need to have her bath water ready when
she come home rubbingbing hershoulders Like baby.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
What's wrong?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
We talk all the time.
We talk about this.
I talk to her While she's atwork.
We have a lot of conversationsThroughout the day and it's
amazing Because I'm listening tothis and I'm going Damn, I'm
still discovering so much andjust listening to you both and
seeing so many parallels.
You know, maybe there's more wecan do, but like overall, like
the black woman doesn't feelprotected by the black man, yeah
(38:10):
, so what's your experience beenwith that feeling that way,
whether it's in life in generalor at work?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
In life.
I will say my husband hasbecome more supportive of the
things that I do.
Does my husband still have avery male, chauvinistic view of
life?
Probably so, but it's okay,cause I can tell him like we're
comfortable in our marriage.
I could be like, uh, sexistmaybe, and he'll be like, yep, I
(38:41):
am.
And I'll be like, okay, well,let's roll with it, like I know
who I'm dealing with when it'sdealing with him.
We have clear roles defined inour house.
In certain elements, he can docertain things that I probably
would never, ever try to dobecause it would cause issues in
the marriage.
Nothing crazy, but they'redefined roles.
(39:02):
Do I feel protected?
I was raised by very strong andopinionated black women.
I'm a lot less than what theyare and that's a lot.
I didn't ever feel like Ineeded to be protected.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Because my mom, my grandma, my auntie, they gonna
say what they feel like and yougo take it Like we are very
Memphis women and if you knowwhat that means, you know what
that means I'm out of here.
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Crazy, I was there for 10 years.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Right, it's like my grandma was from the country.
She would be probablyconsidered more like a cafe
woman because she hung out, shepartied, she did her thing, like
she wasn't, like a loose woman,you know, but she was
unapologetically who she was andyou was going to either accept
her or you wasn't.
So I can't say I necessarilylook for the protection of a man
(40:01):
.
So that might be where I can'tsay if I felt protected, because
I feel like if you don'tprotect me, I protect myself.
I have a defense mechanismalready.
It became an issue in ourmarriage at one point where and
I'll go into that- yeah, becausewe had that conversation.
But it became an issue in ourmarriage where he felt like I
(40:24):
didn't need him because I was sostrong, like I didn't need him
because I was so strong.
So that was where I had to letmy guard down and be like, if
you love this man enough to sayhe's your husband, allow him to
show up as your husband, so givehim the space to be the head of
the house.
But to this day and I love himdearly, to this day, and I love
(40:46):
him dearly, but if somethinghappened to him or crumbled, I
wouldn't feel like who I am iscompletely gone as an existence
of a woman.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Totally, I get that.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I feel I'm safe enough with myself.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
She's saying she don't need me.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I need him.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
I'm sitting here.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Like girl, you better rephrase that your life is in
shambles.
I would be hurt, I would bedevastated, if my husband wasn't
there.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
The only one I know that has my back 100% is me.
He might got a 99.
But that 1% is somebody shoot agun.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
That 1% is a motherfucker.
That 1% is a nigga about toleave me, he'll be like baby let
go, protect yourself, boo,protect yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
He might shoot back, but he gonna be like you better
get going, baby duck.
I'll give you one example, andthen I'll be done, because I
worked in operations at the DCIf anybody ever lived in DC life
, warehouse, life you got tocome in there a little bit more,
you know.
So I had given them someinformation.
This one guy decided he wasgoing to come sit behind me and
(41:57):
he was a black man, but he wastalking aggressively over my
back about me.
So he like no, what we gonna dois and going ham on me and
behind my back.
And you know, in my thoughtprocess I was like OK, I could
cuss him out, but I need thisgood, paying job, so I'm going
to sit still.
I think my manager at the timetold him like, like you need to
(42:19):
calm down, you know, let's talkabout this and refocused in the
meeting and came out the officeand he was like Patrice, I'm
sorry, I just got passionate.
I said no, no, let me tell yousomething.
You see me when I'm at work,but I'm going to tell you now,
if I go home, there's someonebigger and stronger that will
fuck you up.
(42:40):
That was the one time I feltprotected.
I threw him out there Conveneand threw me out there to get
shot.
I was like, but no, becausehonestly he's because what he
did in hindsight.
We had a corporate event and Itold him I was like look my
husband, don't play about meLike you can come and think you
finna, wolf somebody else.
(43:01):
But let me tell you, don't letthe size fool you.
Player, so player.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
So, and that's how I said it, like cause I told you I
don't.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I'm sorry.
So I'm gonna work on me.
So we had a Christmas party orsomething and Willie had to see
the guy and he sat him down atthe bar.
He was like I don't care what'sgoing on, don't talk to my wife
like that.
And the guy apologized, youknow.
He said I appreciate, Iappreciate you, man.
It was my bad, but I told himand my husband came and backed
(43:33):
that up.
Yeah, so I guess my babeprotected me.
Look at you, boo.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Protecting your wife.
Don't play, don't play, don'tplay about you.
You got me, babe, okay.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Baby, anybody yell at you.
Let me back in Anything youneed to tell me.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
Maybe anybody yell at you lately.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Anything you need to tell me they're so funny.
So black women beingunderprotected from a corporate
experience it's absolutely truenecessarily been black men in
the environments that I've beenin to necessarily say, okay, I
know so-and-so has my back or Iknow so-and-so will reinforce
(44:14):
what you know.
Zola has said Like I've neverhad that and where I'm at now,
again the first token he's allfor himself.
I could be set on fire andhe'll.
He wouldn't even look over tospit on me, you know.
So from the corporateperspective, no, I'm not going
to sit here and make it soundlike you know I hate white
people, or white people haven'thelped me along the way, because
(44:36):
they absolutely have, becauseif they didn't I wouldn't be in
a position that I am now.
The person that I learnedeverything from was a white
woman, but biggest bitch everlike ever in life.
She was just nasty, right, butbecause, again, I was a single
mom at the time, like you ain'tgoing, this ain't going to stop
me from collecting my coins,because, again, you have to know
(44:59):
your reason for showing up andno one can deter you from that.
So while I was there workingfor her, I was working on my
bachelor's degree and she waslazy, so she thought she was
doing herself a favor.
But that white woman taught meeverything I know.
She taught me how to do her jobas a controller and me, being
(45:21):
who I am, I'm not going tocomplain.
I see you, I know what you'redoing, you lazy, and you think
you're dumping shit on me, butI'm learning how to do your job
Right.
So she indirectly taught meeverything I know and once I
mastered it, she was able to bepromoted to CFO.
I'm still in my same positionMeanwhile.
I'm still doing her job and Itook it.
(45:44):
I openly took it, I willinglytook it, because I to her, she
was just like, oh, she's just,you know, when she's talked
about Zola, she's just so eagerto learn, you know, she's just
so eager to learn, you know.
And she, yeah, zola got it.
So that's her thing, like Zolacan take care of that.
Zola will take care of thatbecause, again, indirectly,
(46:06):
everything I know that womantaught me and I give her props
for it.
You know, for being lazy I giveher all the props, but she
taught me everything I knew.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Lazy bitch.
Thank you, bitch.
She's dead now.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Aw dang.
That's the piece.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Say it again she, my bad lady, Forgive me forgive me,
but from that sense, like sheprotected me in my position,
like in some cases I was able tobe my authentic self because
she couldn't do the job, yeah,right, I'm doing the job, so I
(46:44):
can kind of be be able to getaway with a little bit of
whatever the fuck, because I wasthe face behind the face.
But I've had other experiencesin the outside world where I'm
just like these bitch ass niggas.
Right, I was just on a flightthe other day and you know, you
disembark the plane, you leavethe plane in an orderly fashion,
(47:05):
right, and there's littlenigglet, a whole nigglet, a
little one who raised you commoncurtis.
It should be embedded like,when you're dealing with a woman
, it's always ladies first, it'salways black or white, it
doesn't matter, women first.
You protect women.
Girl, I'm reaching up for mybag and he, because you know, as
(47:29):
soon as the plane lands and theseatbelt, everybody just floods
, no, and you still end up stuckin the same place because
people are getting off by rows.
And he had his hand up likeblocking me in my face, and I
had to push his hand away, right, and then he kind of, you know,
gets out the way for a littlebit, but then once the line
starts to move, like he legitpushed me, got in front, like
(47:50):
push me out.
I'm like, I'm like atlanta gotsome bitch ass niggas and I said
it out loud and he turnedaround and our eyes made four.
Yes, I'm talking to you, butit's situations and instances
like that in the outside worldwhere you expect black men
teenage all the way you know tobe able to put black women right
, especially black women.
(48:10):
Show us some respect.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
Sounds like Zola, don't need you either.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
No, I need my man.
Don't get it twisted, I need myman.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Why you say either I didn't say I didn't need you.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
We go talk in the car .
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Don't do that.
Don't put words in my mouth,and you better edit it out too.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
So it's like instances out there in the
outside world where it's justlike it's clear as day that we
aren't being protected by blackmen, even when it comes to Black
Lives Matter and all that.
And you hear about the you knowblack men getting killed and
then their tweets come out wherethey're like fuck a black woman
.
I wouldn't even fuck a blackdog unless it was a white dog.
(48:51):
Remember that last dude thatgot shot and everybody was like
now we just gonna.
The black women were just likenow we gonna sit this one out
right, yeah there are too manyinstances now where black women
are just like.
We're gonna sit this one outI'm in my fafo.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Hello, hey y'all.
What y'all doing out there?
Speaker 2 (49:08):
in them streets.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
Help me understand what that means yeah, it's funny
, but I will say, for the pastthree years since I've met steph
from childhood all the way upto adulthood, right, it wasn't
until like three years ago thatI realized what protection was
(49:33):
and feeling like someone hadyour back, like I'm fully, 100%
protected emotionally,spiritually, mentally, and it
wasn't until I met Steph, I'vealways had to be 100 hundred
percent independent, like fullyindependent, like run my own
shit, independent, right.
So?
And we did have a little bit ofum same thing being independent
(49:56):
for so long where you finallymeet a man and you don't
necessarily know how to treatthem because you've been
independent for so long.
You don't know how to besubmissive Submissive to who?
Submissive to what?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Exactly.
And then it's the aggressionthat comes with it, and not
aggression in an angry sense.
It's the head of household,it's the.
I'm the provider, it's the Itake care of shit, like you know
, making sure my kids never lackfor anything Roof over their
head.
Like, just know, making sure mykids never lack for anything
(50:29):
roof over their head.
Like, just being thatEverything that a man is
supposed to be.
I was the man.
So when I met a man, I was stillacting like I had that,
figuratively speaking, like Ihad that dick right.
So it was hard to reallyfeminize myself because, again,
personal, corporate, just allaround.
(50:51):
I was that person.
I had a lot of masculinity inme.
I still do.
It's just that, that protection, that knowing that I'm good.
Like before, I can be honestwith you, I never slept at night
, never slept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right.
I met this man and I can behonest with you, I never slept
at night, never slept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right.
I met this man and I can sleeplike, and he's like, baby, you
(51:14):
was dead to the world.
Like, how do you do it?
that's good and I tell him allthe time I never slept before.
I have you, so I can sleep, Ican be at peace.
I can be at ease.
I can be at ease and I've never, ever, ever had that in life
like ever.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
That protection, that , that just knowing that I'm
good I've never had that until Imet Steph yeah, I just want to
applaud that, even at this stagein life, you were able to
recognize it and change it.
Girl, I ain't trying to lose myman, exactly, but we're going
to talk about that on anotherepisode, because I think that's
a problem.
(51:54):
Women just be too strong andI'm one of them.
But it's about approach.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
See, because I'm headstrong, I'm very stubborn,
like I'm very black and white.
There's never a gray area.
I'm very.
If you tell me this is whatneeds to be done, or, babe, I
have this business idea, I'm theone researching and I'll be
back to you in 48 business hoursand letting you know, don't put
that standard out there.
No, that's just me.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
That's just me no no, this one will hear this and be
like can you get it to me in 48hours.
48 hours, that'll be our nextthing around the house 47 will
be even better.
I told you he my Zola.
I cannot deal with that.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Okay now put that out there, so like that's just how
I am right.
Yeah, but when I met Steph, itwasn't even intentionally like I
was trying.
It was almost like he broughtout the femininity in me.
Like I said, I'm still verymasculine in a certain sense I'm
very much in my soft girl era.
(52:55):
Before I was lifting shit girl,now I'm just like oh stuff,
give me some.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I can't do it like this is too heavy.
It's too heavy you be carrying22 grand she of bags at one time
.
Like oh, this is too tight.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
You know, and he just brings, he, you know, brings
that out, naturally.
It's not something that I try todo, it's not something that I
can genuinely just be a womanand not have to worry about
certain things.
And when you know you have agood person that's standing
behind you, it's one of thosethings where you just naturally
want to conform Now, I'm notsaying lose your identity, you
(53:38):
know, in this person because atthe end of the day it's still
just you, right.
But I love him enough to knowthat, ok, I need to fall back on
certain things, but then oncertain things I just nah, you
ain't going to.
No, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
I get it and I will say two things here One thing
about her and what I said whenwe introduced ourselves.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
We said wives first, because that's still our primary
job, so no matter what happensout in the corporate, world we
still have to show up and work,because that's the role that
matters the most, right, likeyeah, I'm his wife, you know his
wife, then mother, and then Iwork for them folks.
But it's just, that's the rolethat's the most important, the
(54:28):
most fundamental, the most likebeneficial.
That's the role that matters tome.
Say mother first, but no, fuckthem kids.
I did FDK girl.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
You know what, zoma?
I'm starting to see you, girl,I'm coming to see you.
I FDK all the time here.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
No, I you know I'm emotional, so I'm trying to keep
it together here.
But I love you, I appreciateyou.
I love you too, baby.
Speaker 4 (54:56):
Aww, look at him.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Look at him.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
I love you too, baby.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
No, baby, I love you, do it All right.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
So, so magic wand, what's the one thing if you
could change?
You got this magic wand and youcould change one thing.
You know that you're having toovercome daily, and not just for
yourself, but for other youngladies who are currently in
school learning, who are goingto be facing.
You know our daughter's incollege right now.
She's she's at Howard, so Godknows.
She's going to have an uphillbattle, especially in today's
climate.
(55:29):
If you could change one thing,what would it be?
Speaker 1 (55:31):
That HBCU is going to help her, just because it's a
different experience.
If you never went to one.
I promote those.
But one thing that I will say,if I could change in the world
for my daughter, that she wouldnot have to battle, or any of
the black ladies or young ladiesthat are going through is to
(55:52):
not be seen by color first.
Yeah, because we already haveto fight being a woman, but to
be seen as a black woman, youalready got a double-head sword.
I know they say that men haveit hard, black men have it hard
y' men have it hard.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Y'all got it harder, I know that.
Yeah, I know for a fact.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I could sit with one of the boys and go out with them
and whatever.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Right, you have it hard.
Black men don't get it wrong,they have it hard navigating
society outside All the bullshit, right.
We have it hard when we open oureyes.
So, from the time we open oureyes, the time we speak our
first word, the way we move ourbody, the way we comb our hair,
the way we put our clothes on,any and everything before we
(56:37):
even step out the door, is onething we have.
Is our hair in a ponytail or doit need to be flowing down our
back?
Is it too short?
Is it too kinky?
Is it the right color?
Is our makeup overly dramaticor is it undertone?
(56:57):
If our lashes are too long, ifit's not?
You know all those, everyexpression of who we are.
Some people appreciate, somepeople don't.
It's getting critiqued.
I don't want that for my child.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
Well, again, it's like that perfect utopia right
Black and white.
There is no gray area.
Reality is what it is.
The racial aggression, what'sin the system now is only going
to be magnified.
It's not going away.
I actually see it getting worsefor generations to come.
And because this generation iskind of low key, complicit, like
I see a lot of the things thatpeople fought for in the past.
I see a lot of those thingscoming back and we're seeing it
(57:36):
now.
A lot of these things arecoming back.
You know laws being revoked.
It's playing out right in frontof our faces.
So this generation is a littlebit more complicit with then.
You know more and you hear them.
You know talking about oh we'renot our ancestors, and blah,
blah.
Yeah, you're right, you're notyour ancestors, right?
I'm not saying we have to beout there in the streets
(57:57):
protesting or whatever, becausethey are trying to evoke that
negative emotion from us inorder to do something more
extreme.
I understand that, but I don'twith the racial climate.
I don't see things gettingbetter.
So my contribution would be to,especially for Black, young
Black girls, would be to armthem with as much knowledge that
(58:20):
I've learned along the wayalong the journey as to what
they can expect.
It's almost like grooming themto survive in corporate America.
Expect.
It's almost like grooming themto survive in corporate America.
Like, yes, we shouldn't have todo it, but the reality is that
we do have to do it andunfortunately you know a lot of
the scholars that are excellingnow they don't necessarily come
(58:41):
from women who have been groomedor have that, have had that
exposure.
So it should be taught at anHBCU Code switching 101, right,
surviving corporate America 101.
Like these are skills that needto be taught.
Like it really does, like itsounds, oh, it's not necessary.
No, it is very much necessary.
(59:02):
Like this, especially at anHBCU, that needs to be taught.
Allison's at an advantage bygrowing up with me, she sees I
don't sugarcoat anything from mydaughter or hide anything from
my daughter, so she knows shecan code switch on you real
quick.
You know she's had practice andthe environments that she's
been in like have been a lot ofyou know, predominantly white
(59:22):
environments, but so sheunderstands the importance of it
.
But that would be mycontribution is just equipping
black women, or young blackwomen, with the knowledge on how
to survive, how to navigate theworld.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
I'll encourage a lot of men who have their wives in
those environments to understand, because I think that innately
for us as men, you know,especially when we got hard jobs
, we go out and we do somethingright.
We just we go work, and becausewe face not the same things but
we face our own set ofchallenges.
So when we go out, shit washard, we did this, we did that.
(59:55):
We come home and we expect youto be our comfort and be our
peace and everything else, notthinking twice about what you're
needing and what you had to putup with and the masks that you
had to wear all day long and howexhausting that is, especially
if the man has a physical job.
The mental exhaustion is a lotworse than physical exhaustion.
(01:00:17):
So I encourage them to kind ofthink back and have more of
these conversations to figureout how they can support their
women better, because it'ssomething that I have to be
reminded of every once in awhile.
I'm glad we had thisconversation so I could be more
cognizant of it.
I like it Earlier today.
I lost the goddamn coin.
Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
toss yeah yeah, yeah, you did.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, you did.
So what that means is that Iget to do the outro and you guys
have to decide who I'm supposedto be impersonating Morgan
Freeman.
Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Morgan.
Yeah, we can do, morgan, it'sgoing to suck.
All right, you just got to godeep.
Go deep, morgan is very deep.
He's very deep In the beginning.
Yeah, you got to go deep.
Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
In the beginning.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
If you're not already following the show, I encourage
you to hit that follow button.
What are you doing?
Go deeper, deeper, all right,then leave us a review, a
glorious five-star review.
It really helps us grow.
Join us next week when theconversation takes an ominous
(01:01:26):
turn as we recount two storiesfrom our co-host facing death
then getting a second chance atlife.
Thank you so much for tuning inand have a great week.
Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
That's funny.
That was good.
That was more like his brotherMorris.
Speaker 5 (01:01:44):
That was Morris.
Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
That was Morris you.
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