September 22, 2025 • 64 mins
This year alone, approximately 300,000 Black women have exited the US workforce. Behind this statistic lies a profound reality that demands our attention – the unique challenges Black women face navigating corporate America.
In this candid conversation, we sit down with two successful Black professionals – Patrice Nash, a senior category manager at a Fortune 10 company, and Zola, who works in private equity. They peel back the curtain on what it truly means to operate in predominantly white corporate spaces while being both Black and female.
The women reveal the exhausting necessity of "code switching" – adjusting language, appearance, and behavior to fit corporate expectations. "I need time to mentally prepare because it's a draining experience," Zola explains. "It comes so natural where it's like in the parking lot, I'm like, I got to put it on." They describe how white colleagues can simply arrive at work without greeting everyone, while Black women must be excessively pleasant to avoid being labeled "aggressive" or having a "bad attitude."
One of the most disturbing patterns shared is what could be called "recognition theft" – where Black women's achievements are systematically attributed to others. Patrice recounts transforming an underperforming distribution center in just two months, only to watch her white male assistant receive an award for excellence. Adding insult to injury, she was asked to write the recommendation letter for him. Both women emphasize the importance of documentation ("keeping receipts") as essential protection in these environments.
Despite these challenges, both women have developed strategies for success and are passionate about mentoring the next generation. "We should be teaching 'Code Switching 101' and 'Surviving Corporate America 101' at HBCUs," Zola suggests, underscoring how these survival skills must be intentionally passed down.
Listen to this powerful episode and share it with someone who might be struggling with workplace microaggressions. Let them know they're not alone.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is going to be a repeat episode, but I need to
explain something to everyonelistening here.
This is about black women ingeneral.
This is a crisis and it needsto be addressed, not by small
voices like myself, but by everysingle one of us.
This year alone, about 300,000black women have exited or been
(00:22):
pushed out of the US workforce,driven by DEI rollbacks, budget
cuts, layoffs.
Now, this is not just stats,it's a goddamn crisis.
And the thing is this DEI wasnever about hiring unqualified
people.
It was about removing barriersso qualified individuals
qualified individualshistorically overlooked due to
(00:44):
bias or systemic exclusion couldcompete.
Fair evaluations, diverseoutreach, structured interviews,
shit like that.
Black women are among the mosteducated groups in America.
They earn a disproportionatelylarge share of the degrees
awarded to students, often atthe master's and doctoral levels
(01:04):
, of the degrees awarded tostudents, often at the master's
and doctoral levels.
But obviously that's not enough.
And just to be clear, otherunderrepresented groups also
benefited from DEI Latinx, asian, indigenous people, people with
disabilities, many of thesegroups, they all gain access.
That was blocked before.
Dei isn't a subsidy.
It's a fairness correction.
That was blocked before.
Dei isn't a subsidy.
It's a fairness correction,that's it.
(01:25):
So the rollback on DEI isn'tmaking America more meritocratic
.
It's cutting off visibility,removing supports and often
re-erecting the old barriers,just on the new names.
This repeat episode needed tohappen.
It's one of our favorites.
It focuses on two black womenin corporate America and what
(01:47):
they put up with every day, whatthey have to go through.
I wanted to make sure I didn'tjust find two black women out of
work.
That's not the case.
I wanted to make sure that Ifind people who are working and
showcase their challenges, themicroaggressions they face and a
constant barrage of attacksthey have to fend off.
Be sure to share this with afriend.
(02:07):
Send it to someone who might bestruggling with such attacks.
Let them know they're not alone.
This episode was definitelyworth uploading again.
Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
He said I don't want the inventory manager because I
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough, I'mstill learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Exactly, so the spotlight could have been on me.
Yeah, everyone around me knewit should have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
What's going on everyone.
Today's episode is one for thebooks.
We're switching gears andshining the spotlight on two
phenomenal women Patrice Nash, apowerhouse wife, mother and
corporate trailblazer, and myvery own queen Zola.
These two are stepping into thestudio to break down what it's
(03:21):
really like to navigate theshark infested waters of
corporate America as black women.
From boardrooms to backhandedcompliments, they're pulling no
punches and giving us theunfiltered truth with grace,
style and just the right amountof fire.
And oh way, listen.
(03:42):
We're also kicking off a brandnew tradition today.
It's called the Celebrity OutroChallenge.
So we flipped the coin beforethe show, before we hit record,
and the losers got to close outthe show with a bad celebrity
impression.
Stick around to find out who'sgetting roasted.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
(04:04):
Let's get to it.
So thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Oh hey.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Absolutely.
Thank you for being here.
I appreciate you guys so, sovery much for doing this.
This is going to be aninteresting topic because it's
one that we kind of touched on Afew episodes ago.
We talked about blackstereotypes, and one of them was
black women are angry and loud.
We talked about where thatstereotype comes from, and then
(04:43):
we touched on microaggressionsat work what you guys have to
face and deal with every day.
So why don't we just go aroundintroducing ourselves and then
we'll just get right into theconversation?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
All right, I am Patrice Nash.
I am the wife of Willie Nashand the mother of Marian Thomas.
I mentioned those because thoseare my jobs every day and I
also work as a sourcing wellsenior category manager.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I know people don't know what that means Nobody
knows what that is.
I know right, what is that?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I basically look at contracts and do big deal
negotiations for a Fortune 10company Wow yeah.
And then I also own my owncompany called perfect
perfections.
I do events as well as interiordesign.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
That's awesome.
And how long have you been withyour current career?
How long have you been doingthat?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So with McKesson, I've been with them for 15 years
for my company.
I started as a real company.
I established it in 2018.
Got it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Willie, we know you are.
It's not about you and me,brother, but I'm glad to have
you here, man.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Man glad to be here.
I'm glad to be back.
You know it's been a while.
Yes, sir you know, feeling likeI'm at home again.
Yeah let's do it.
I don't have to introducemyself.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
No you know you don't .
You know, everybody knowsyou're always late to this, but
it's funny because I said thismorning I went to get some
coffee and donuts and I'm comingback and Willie's already here.
I'm like she truly is the bestpart of you, because now you're
15 minutes early, because she'sshowing up.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
That's right, that's so funny, my better half.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I am stickler about time.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
There's a lot of stuff I don't play about.
Time is whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I am willie, willie is me and for the first time, I
have my lovely, beautiful wifeon the pod for the first time.
She's been trying to get awayfrom this.
She's been running away everytime I've asked her.
There's always a reason.
Something's not happening I.
It's just not my thing I know,and that's why there's no video
today.
I'm not even taking photos.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah.
So, babe, introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I'm Steph's wife.
Of course my name is Zola.
I work in private equity.
I've been doing with my currentcompany for about seven years
now.
Very interesting, so we'll diga little deeper into the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
For sure, Gotcha.
And let me ask you both whatlevel of schooling did you
attain?
I got my GED.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, I know, you got a high school diploma, we would
not be together For a TV andsome college.
You might not have graduated.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
But you went A little bit of college, you went to
college, you attempted.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I was there for the student loans.
They looking for me right now.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I have a bachelor's degree From the From Xavier
University Of Louisiana, hbcu,proud.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Oh man, I have my MBA , I have my MBA.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So let's talk about the biggest challenges that you
face, simply not because youhave that job in a position, but
either one of you can speak tothis because you are a black
woman in that space.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Well, you know me.
I've been working since I waslike 15, right?
None of my supervisors haveever been black, so I have been
groomed to talk that talk, walkthat walk and show up as what's
expected, right?
So it's not anything new.
(08:23):
It's almost like code switching.
That's exactly what it's called.
It's called code switchingwhere it's innate to me.
It comes so natural where it'slike in the parking lot.
I'm like shit.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yep, I got to put it on.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Even in the mornings.
Like don't talk to me in themornings, like I need time to
mentally prepare because it's adraining experience, right, but
again it's embedded in me.
So if I come home and I'm like,I'm tired, like it's not a
physical thing, it's just I ammentally drained.
So the expectation is I leavethe house a certain way but I
(09:01):
need to show up a certain wayand I have to be mindful of how
I show up.
Like I can't just show up andnot show all of my 32.
I need hi.
Good morning, how are you?
Did you have a good night?
Like you have to do that right.
Very engaging.
I can come in and just be likegood morning and go to my office
(09:23):
right, I can't do that.
But Amanda, she can walk in,not say a word and she's
perfectly good.
Oh, you know, amanda's justbeing Amanda, but Zola comes in
walks to her office, oh she's,she's so rude.
Well, you know why is she beingso rude this morning?
Or she might be a little bitaggressive today.
Don't go in there.
She didn't come in and you know, like so it's, it's just a
(09:45):
little.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You ain't chucking and jiving that morning.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Exactly, whereas I can't come in and just be me.
I can't come in and just belike everybody else.
I have to come in andoutperform.
I have to come in and do thatdance just to be accepted in
that space.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
So what was the original question?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
You've answered it.
Oh, you know, for the most partI mean, there's a whole lot
more to go into because you andI've had this conversation.
I'll be on the phone with her.
You know.
We're just talking throughmaybe the ride to work or
whatever, and she gets into theoffice and I hear the most
jovial, happy person becauseshe's saying hi to everyone and
smiling and I'm like the fuckhappened he go.
(10:31):
You must have just walked in theoffice you know and, and I
realize, that's what happensright, it's lights, camera
action, it's an act and you haveto turn it on because you can't
afford not to right.
What about you, patrice?
What are you running into?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
for me currently it's a lot better because on the
flip side I now have a vp who'safrican-amer woman, so she's
already set that bar of bringyour authentic self to work.
So I have like that defensebecause she's like over the
entire department and I have agreat relationship with her
(11:07):
because she's helped me along inmy career recently.
But in hindsight, I talked to alot of suppliers who are, you
know, VPs of companies,directors of companies.
They are majority Caucasian menwho have basically told me that
I don't know enough to tellthem what they're going to do
(11:29):
with their company, but I doknow enough to tell you what I'm
not going to do with ours.
So I have to fight that battle.
So I start off with the codeswitching Hi, how are you guys
doing?
But I'm learning that in thatthey think they can play in my
face for the most part and it'squickly turned around to the
no-no.
That's not what we're going todo.
(11:51):
So when they get hit with thatno-no, they already no-no.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
No, you have to check them.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, you have to come in like, okay, let me tell
you what we're not going to do.
And then it's like, oh, okay,so it's not that I'm not trying
to be the angry black woman, butI'm not going to be the little
black girl that you want,putting me in a position to
where I have this money.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Go to yes, and you can't lead that way.
You can't show up that way,because then automatically you
know what they already thoughtof you is.
Well, there you go, she'sproving it Right.
So you show up with all thepleasantries and the
professionalism and then you gettested.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes.
Now what I do know in my careeron the corporate side is when
they ask me my opinion on thecorporate side is when they ask
me my opinion, I don't startwith the issue.
I try to start with thepositive and then bring it back
with the issue, but in with thepositive and they say that's
easy, but you especially have todo it as a black woman.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Because if I leave, with the issue.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
They already think I'm the problem, so I can't
start with that part.
I have to be like well,everything is great, you know, I
don't see any issues with this,but this could be a concern for
someone else in this way, andthen it turns into you know what
the issue is, but I can't startwith y'all fucking up, you know
(13:12):
, because then they hear me asoh you the problem?
Yeah, is it us or is it you?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You mentioned something a little while ago
that I know, that black women ingeneral have struggled and
dealt with.
You have a black manager, right, your VP, the person you report
to.
She's a black woman.
So I've had discussions Onefriend for example, she was
saying that her manager is black.
But I think what happened isthis black woman has had to
prove herself so much that sheshows up that way all the time
(13:37):
and she was miserable to workfor.
So do you find that, instead ofhaving some type of alliance in
not just this current position,but in any position you both
have had to, where you've had todeal with another black woman
of an alliance, was there somekind of conflict?
Because she was black andinstead of looking out for you
and being that mentor that shecould be, it was the opposite?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I've had issues with lower management positions, not
higher, okay.
So when you're still at thatpoint in your career where
you're trying to prove yourself,I think black women can come
off, as I can't let this otherwoman it's not even like saying,
black woman, I can't letanybody in my department show me
up so they might notnecessarily have your back as
(14:23):
much.
In front of everyone they'requick to say, oh girl, you know,
I already know what's going on,but when it comes to the time
when it counts, they're stillout for themselves.
With my VP, she is moresolidified in her career.
She's older lady, she has donewhat she needs to do.
We had a very candidconversation when I started.
(14:46):
She was like I need your helpwith this department to start it
.
And I was like I'm sorry, but Idon't trust people with my
career.
And she was like trust me thisone time.
If I fail, you point it out,but trust me this one time.
And that was in 2020.
And I've for five years I'vebeen trusting her and she has
(15:08):
been showing up and showing outand I give her her flowers all
the time because I don't thinkenough people reach back and say
you know, I'll bring you withme on my journey yeah so for her
to be able to do that with me.
It's only right that I say youknow what I appreciate you for
everything you've done, becauseI've worked with a white woman
yeah and me and that heifer Iremember her you had to hear
(15:34):
about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
She stayed two doors down for a month.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So I'd be wanting to set her damn house on fire.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
She's this day, right now.
No, she don't stay in the house.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
She didn't move.
Y'all made a move.
We didn't necessarily make amove, but her working.
I'll get into that, we'llrevisit that.
But I didn't work with thatwoman, baby, let me tell you I
almost lost myself.
That's when I couldn't codeswitch no more.
I had to go off on her in heroffice.
(16:04):
I don't like you, you don'tlike me, I don't trust you.
You don't trust me.
But I'm going to tell you whatyou're not gonna do.
You're not gonna play with mylivelihood.
So yeah, we got through that wedid, we have, we have evolved
but this new VP, she reallylikes me she does she really
loves me.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
That's what matters.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
She likes me she really loves.
She's like how is Willie, thatis my friend.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I'm like that is not your friend.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
No, I'm just'm just playing.
She's a really, really genuineperson, god-fearing, and she's
God-fearing to the point whereshe don't have to say I'm
God-fearing, you just see it.
You know those people that gotsomething on their life, that's
her.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
We're not going to get into religion.
But that's the only type ofpeople that, when you talk about
God, that I respect.
You live it and I can see itthrough you.
You don't have to keep sayingit yes, I can see it based on
your actions, exactly.
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So I guess, like I said, I've never had a black
supervisor in any capacity, nota team leader, not a known in
management, it's not necessarilymore so someone of the same
race keeping me down, but inevery company I've always been
the token black right thecurrent company.
(17:25):
Right now.
When I came in, there is ablack guy there, but girl, he
don't count, if you know whatI'm saying.
Yeah, okay, yeah he's, he's,he's there, yeah, I mean down to
the wife, the, the expectation,right, see, all we had to do
was see each other.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You saw how she gave me a look and I get out.
Yeah right, I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, so I don't understand that she stole me I
guess you know I came, I, youknow, did my 90 days and they
were like great, they'reacceptable.
You know what I mean.
They can perform, they can do.
And they brought in you know ablack receptionist and then you
know a black accountant and youknow, but it kind of hard, pause
(18:07):
.
You open the diversity, exactly.
It was like it was like youknow, kind of for them Like oh
OK, it's up there with theyspeak so well, you know, yeah.
(18:28):
But then when those women camein and the way they came in, I'm
like y'all ain't gonna fuckthis up for me, yeah, right,
because, again, I've worked veryhard to be the code switcher
that I am Like y'all ain't justgoing to come up in here and
fuck my shit up, right.
So we have to.
We're a reflection of eachother.
Yes, so in that sense,respectfully, I've had the
conversation with them, likelisten, this is a first for this
(18:49):
company.
This company has been aroundforever and of the 300 people,
we're the only three right now.
I was a test run.
I said it to them just likethat.
I'm a test run and with thattest run I performed.
So here you two go right.
So there's a way you need tolook.
There's a way you need to speak, there's things that you need
(19:11):
to leave at the door and whenyou come in, you have to be this
way.
You have to.
This is how they're looking atyou and what they're expecting.
So it's like I had to give themthe code switch in working in
corporate America 101 and theyweren't necessarily resistant to
it.
They were actually veryappreciative for the feedback
(19:32):
because that allowed them to,and I noticed the changes like,
immediately after thatconversation, the way they dress
.
You know there was no justbecause we're black women in the
office.
There's no sister girl talkright we save that for when we
bump into each other in thebathroom or in the kitchen.
You know like that, thatone-on-one thing.
But when, even when the eyesaren't watching, the eyes are
(19:56):
watching right, and we have tobe held to a certain standard
and kept at a certain standardin order to be in the
environment that we're in.
There's not a lot of blackwomen, there's not a lot of
minorities, period, not a lot ofeven white.
There are not a lot of whitewomen in the sector that I'm in.
So, now that we are here,regardless of our position the
(20:19):
janitor, the receptionist, itdoesn't matter we still have to
come in and perform at a certainand it's unfortunate, it's very
, very unfortunate that we haveto be this way, but if we want
to get that money, that's what Iwas going to say.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Is it in coaching them and showing them how to be
this way?
But if we want to get thatmoney?
That's what I was gonna say.
Is it in coaching them andshowing them how to be, how to
code, switch and all of that?
Is there an argument forsomeone saying, yeah, but you're
not.
You're teaching people how, nothow to not be authentic.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Um could not give a fuck about your authentic self.
You better not show up as yourauthentic self.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I always tell people be your authentic self when it's
authentic.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Okay, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And I mean when you're in a meeting with
somebody.
That's a duty, that's a job.
That's something like yourduties assigned.
So why are you trying to beauthentic when I'm having a
conversation like she said thatsidebar conversation?
When I'm having a conversationlike she said, that sidebar
conversation, be yourself, bewho you want to be.
But when you are representingthe company, you're not
(21:20):
authentically the company.
When you leave that nine tofive, you don't live their life,
you don't live that brand,you're not all that stuff.
So you absorb what you need toabsorb.
Then and when you're sayingcode switch is not a bad thing,
you can't expect I can't expectto make a deal for 30 million
dollars for our company and belike, um, you know what I'm
(21:42):
saying, we ain't gonna be doingit, you know?
Yeah, I don't need to focus.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
That's not how I speak on a day-to-day, though,
like when I say code switchingno, but like no, no, I get what
you're saying.
No, I get what you're saying.
But when I show up and I'mspeaking with someone, this is
pretty much how I sound, becauseI didn't grow up in the hood,
(22:07):
like you know, I didn't havethat experience.
But I can keep it real and havethat girl to girl girlfriend
conversation with my peers,right, when I'm comfortable.
But when I'm comfortable, yeah.
So code switching for me is inthese spaces, in these corporate
spaces, like you always have tobe on, because here's the thing
(22:29):
, corporate America is a gameand no one is ever your friend,
ever, right?
So I have to be in my comfortzone, like you know, the one in
two people that I'm in mycomfort zone with at work, but
for the most part all my othercounterparts, however friendly
they may be, they will never seethat other side of me, they
(22:50):
will never see that that I'mkicking it, that you know.
Oh, let's hang out Like theywill never see that, because
it's a game, everybody is justtrying to excel and make it to
the top.
And the fact that I am there intheir space girl, I'd be walking
in the kitchen just to get ayogurt from the fridge and these
folks look terrified and I haveto be.
(23:10):
I have to disarm them Like hey,good morning, you know, I'm
just here to grab a yogurt.
Like they have never been inenvironments, especially
one-on-one situations, you can.
It's clear as day, right For adark-skinned sister to walk into
the kitchen.
I tell you it is exhausting.
So when I come home and I tellSteph that I am drained and I
don't have the bandwidth, I haveto do a lot of tap dancing to
(23:33):
collect this check.
It's not easy.
It's not easy at all andunfortunately, they do say show
up as your authentic self.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
but that is bullshit.
Except for you, Right, Exceptfor you.
That does not apply to me.
They say it, they live it Likeour company tells you.
You know, we even have the DEIprograms.
Know, because I am in the blackexcellence you kept it alive.
I'm always gonna be black everyday.
I tell them every day you'regonna see me, you'll see me
black as first.
But I have made it souncomfortable for others because
(24:08):
I'm I'm too old, I've been withthe company too long.
I got to got to that pointwhere I'm like, if you let me go
, hopefully it's with severance.
So if I calculate the amount ofweeks that you're going to pay
me, I don't do nothing to losethe job.
But you know if you're lookingat the people, you want to cut
some head count.
(24:29):
Ok, I got these years in I'mgood.
Okay, I got these years in I'mI'm good, but I get it like I've
had to do both.
I've had to live where, when Icame in, I had to tap dance on
everything.
I couldn't be the aggressiveblack woman, even though I was
in operations that you had to be.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
It's not even that you're.
You were going to be theaggressive black woman.
He just couldn't expressanything because if you did, it
was going to be misconstrued asbeing aggressive.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Well, no, I could express it, but they couldn't
hear me because, like I said, Ibrought the problem first and
then I'd be like, okay, no, no,your problem is this.
Let me give you a solution.
They didn't hear the solution.
All they heard was the problem.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
You have to speak their language in order for them
to understand.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So it was like and I could have two white guys that
reported to me one that was likemy homeboy, but he's still
white.
And I say homeboy because tothis day all of us are still
cool.
They've advanced in theircareer.
They're playing the game likethey need to play.
They've advanced higher than meand I'm okay with that because
we know they are white men thatfit that corporate.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
They don't have to do much.
They don't have to do much,right.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Now don't get me wrong, they are very smart in
everything that they do.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
They're still qualified, but there's nothing
going against them.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Their struggles are not the same struggles, correct,
so we could be sitting there.
I've told them before themeeting what I'm going to
present.
They told them before themeeting what I'm going to
present.
They're like yep, that's right,I agree, we need to do that.
I go to the meeting, I presentthat, I get looked at as the
(26:04):
issue.
Then they sit back, wait twominutes and say, well, I'm going
to circle back and I think weneed to do that.
What Patrice said.
They'll even say my name and weneed to do X, y and Z.
You know what you were right,you are.
I think that's what we're goingto do.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
That's fucking insane .
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, what the hell We've been mean for an extra 30
minutes, and I told y'all thatwhen I first came in.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I know I say that to you all the time.
It sounds like a skip, likeit's like I'm watching some kind
of reality.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I would put it like this there was recently a black
woman in history who told us allthe shit we was going to face.
She was qualified, had everydegree, had went through every
level of politics, fought herway to the top.
She told everybody here's theblueprint that these white folks
(26:50):
wrote for y'all.
And this is what's going tohappen.
I'm telling you, I will fightfor you.
And where is she?
Oh Crickets.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So that's what I'm saying.
If the woman at this level,with all these accolades, can go
through all of this and nobodyshowed up for her, that's why we
say we're not.
And she light-skinned, that'swhy we say we're not.
And she light skinned.
She light skinned, black.
She was the one she wasacceptable in all circles of
(27:24):
what we could even potentiallybe in.
White husband didn't have achild, so she could fight with
her career, so she didn't haveto balance home life versus work
life.
Then she got all the degrees Imean.
You know she could talk thetalk she don't.
Went and fought in othercountries for our rights and
they accept her in othercountries more than we accept
(27:46):
her.
And the only people that showedup for her was black women, a
few black men, don't get mewrong.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I understand that and I exactly, but we're not going
to get into politics.
But I told steph the reason shedid not win was because for the
four years she was in officeshe never showed up.
She didn't start no lunchinitiative.
She didn't go out there andplant no trees.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
She did but that's what y'all wanted her for.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Oh, bought me for michelle, but, michelle, if you
take what she did, I don't meanto say I don't mean to override
you, but you cannot say you'regoing to run for the highest
position in the united states.
Meanwhile you were silent.
Your the past four years.
That's like being that was anissue, that's like being
mediocre for four years.
And then me showing up to myboss talking about something I
(28:34):
want to raise.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
But let me ask you this Was it, was she silent, or
did the media not portray her?
Because when you go back to it,I think it's not.
I don't think she wasnecessarily silent.
I really don't.
Because when we look at the HBCUbills, that was her.
When we look at the studentloans, who fought with Biden to
(28:55):
make sure that was her?
But they put Biden's name on it, like they have done every vice
president before.
If you look at any previousvice president, they wasn't in
there showing all the thingsthat they did, but they didn't
have to fight like her.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
But attention spans are short, right, so coming off,
biden was Obama and Bidencoming but what did Biden do?
hold on, but you never saw Obamawithout seeing Biden somewhere
in the back looking in a corner.
So his presence was always atthe forefront in some way shape
or form.
Now I don't know if it'sbecause you know she was a black
(29:31):
woman or what the deal was, whyshe was never.
You know, whenever you sawBiden, you saw Kamala somewhere
in the back.
You know.
She was just never there.
I don't know if her absence wasintentional, but she was just
never present in the way thatshe should have been and my
question would be was it because, or initially, she wasn't
(29:52):
running?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
it was always going to be biting, but we kept
calling him sleepy joe.
Which hell I take sleepy joe,go to sleep, but if we?
And it's like she couldn'toutshadow the white man, but
then she can't be in thebackground without saying look
at me, look at me, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
So that's the battle I fight at work, and that means
she was just complicit to herposition, right, she never took
the initiative to inject herself, and when she tried to inject
herself.
It's almost like it's too lateAgain.
You can't be mediocre.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Showing up.
Did she try to inject herself,or did the press then start
focusing on her?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
But it's not a matter of the press.
There are other social mediaplatforms where you can be
active.
Right, I can get that.
So you don't have tonecessarily need mainstream
media to be active, especiallyas it pertains to the black
community.
Right, you got the clout whereShade Room will post you.
Right, you got the clout whereHollywood Unlocked they will
(30:52):
post you.
I mean means so many socialmedia sites that target black
people, and she even her ownpage, again.
If you want to keep your peoplelike, you have to interact with
them in some way, shape or form, and when you're silent on your
people and not speaking up whenyou want us to show up, you're
not necessarily going to get thethe the correct response.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I get what you're saying.
I debate it.
But I know we said no politics,but I debate it.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
We'll argue later.
Yes, over some wine, over somewine.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Because I guess because she was such a pivotal
part of the HBCU community, Ifollowed her more so I paid
attention to what she did withthe black doctors, the OBGYN,
the mortality, all these thingsbefore it became part of her
campaign.
But I also recognize, and evenin my career, that example I was
(31:47):
given.
I could sit there and doeverything, perfect.
I'll use the example of whatreal life, what pissed me off
and why.
I related to what was happeningto her when I got the job at my
DC and that's what brought usto Atlanta.
The DC was underperforming.
It was having issues withemployees, union conversations,
(32:10):
issues.
They brought me on to turn itaround in inventory.
They were like we're losingmillions of dollars in inventory
.
We we ran a very marginal likeloss that you could had to be
like point zero, zero, threepercent of loss because we're
thinking about drugs here she'sa drug dealer I was a drug
(32:30):
dealer at that time.
You still got that.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
No, I ain't got that.
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
So I come from Memphis to Atlanta bigger DC
hard to turn around.
Within two months we doneturned it around.
We have everything accountable.
We got everything going.
We're fixing things.
We can see everything happening.
That's an extremely quickturnaround.
Right're fixing things.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
We could see everything happening.
That's an extremely quickturnaround.
Right Two months.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
It was just some processes and that wasn't in
place.
Just knowing the process thatwe ran in Memphis that I learned
bring them here, execute them,tailor it to what is needed here
, keep it going Okay.
Again, my white counterpart whowas the assistant inventory
manager.
He said I don't want theinventory manager because I
(33:18):
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough.
I'm still learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
You should me.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Wow, Sounds about right.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Exactly.
Wow, so the spotlight couldhave been on me.
Yeah, Everyone around me knewit should have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done and this white womansaying no, no, I don't want to
(33:58):
listen to her because I can'ttell from her facial expressions
if she's serious or not.
What the fuck?
You mean?
If I said it, I was serious.
If I emailed you, I was serious.
If I told you in ourone-on-ones, I was serious.
Just because I didn't.
Hey, you know what I'm saying.
We need to do this now.
(34:19):
Then I'd be the angry blackwoman.
I'm trying to do it with asmile To try to keep the morale
here, but this person, who goteven a chippier smile than me,
tells y'all the same thing.
I can listen to him.
He knows you're going to givehim the accolades again.
So, no matter what she did, shewasn't going to get it because
(34:39):
of the color of her skin.
So it's debatable.
Yeah, she could have been outthere Look at me, look at me but
then she would have been theblack woman that feels like she
got to upstage the president.
So where do you find thatbalance For me?
I had to find a balance andmove away from that department
because I found that that wasn'tconducive to what I needed in
(35:00):
my life.
It was causing me to come hometo him and not be able to give
my all when somebody can sitthere and tell me you need to
tell your husband to walk yourkids to the bus stop because I
expect you to be here longer.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
And I ain't walking no kids to the bus stop.
Exactly Like ma'am, I ain'ttalking about Willie, I ain't
walking no kids to the bus stopand I have to tell her.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I'm sorry, I know your husband's a stay-at-home
husband, but mine has a job.
He's the head of our household.
You're the head of yourhousehold.
No, ma'am, I will walk my kidsto the bus and try to fire me.
And again, I'm with the companyand she's not because I had to
stand my ground and tell her no.
(35:41):
But you know all the thingsthat I had to go through to even
get told you were right.
I had to document, I had tohave conversations with every
single person.
I had to have conversationswith every single person.
Tell them I need you to go tothis person and have a
conversation to combat what thisone person said, while I was
damn near on my deathbed Becauseshe wanted to lie and say I
(36:03):
didn't know and everybodybelieved her.
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the shit, you guys go through
Receipts.
I keep a receipt, yeah, I keepa receipt.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
That I keep a receipt .
Speaker 3 (36:14):
That's why I told you I do not communicate over the
phone.
I do not communicateface-to-face in office and if I
do, I always send an emailfollowing up with our discussion
and I reiterate every singlething that was discussed,
Because you can never say oh no,and I will find my receipts.
That's just how it is.
I keep telling people corporateAmerica is a game, like it's a
(36:37):
game and you have to know how toplay it.
Like she was saying, I'veexperienced that too, where you
say something but they don'thear you.
Right, and it took me a fewtries, or a few instances
Instances is a better word ittook me a few instances to
realize what it is.
And you're absolutely correctbeing a black woman, you cannot
start.
It could be a meeting regardinga problem, about the problem.
(37:00):
How are we going to fix theproblem pertaining to the
problem?
Right, Because there's sixmeetings for that.
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I know right.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
But you can if it's a meeting about the problem.
As a black woman, you can'tstart off with attacking the
problem.
Your white counterparts can.
They can even say the problemis this, right?
We can't say the problem isthis.
You have to ease into it, right, you have to pacify the muscle.
You have to pacify them andthen gently ease into what the
(37:31):
issue is and how you, what yoursolution is for it.
But you can't go into anymeeting, especially as a black
woman, directly addressing theproblem.
You have to let everyone knowwhat the company has been doing
great so far, which is bullshit,because if you were doing great
so far, we wouldn't have thisproblem, yep.
But you have to go into whatwe've been doing great so far as
(37:54):
a team and you have tohighlight your supervisors or
your direct managers.
You know their contributions,you know and then ease into.
Well, you know we've stumbledinto this obstacle.
We've stumbled into thisobstacle where you know this is
what's happening and how do werectify that, and then you can't
(38:16):
even necessarily take creditfor it to say I think you have
to say, well, as a team, weshould, we should, or as a team,
we've reviewed and concludedthat this might be the best
solution.
You can't say I Zola, as inblack, in black, zola, you know,
I can deliver, I can present,but I can't take credit, for it
(38:38):
has to be as a team, and if mysupervisor or my superior is
really legit and about that shit, he'll be like no, this was
Zola's idea and give me thecredit where credit is due.
But I dare not stand in frontof a room and take credit and
say I did, or I think that's notacceptable, you know how many
emails?
(38:59):
I have with we is this 2025.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
This is 2025, you know how many emails I start off
with we and I am an individualcontributor like who the fuck is
we?
who is this we?
If he saw the emails where Isaid we have come to the
conclusion and he be like whothe fuck said we have come to
the conclusion?
Who the fuck is we?
I literally have to go call myboss and be like hey, so I'm
going to put we on here.
But I just want you to knowwhat I'm going to tell these
(39:22):
folks.
He'll be like go with it, okay,we good.
I just don't want nobody to sayyou don't want no surprises.
So I'm letting you know switchwith my boss as much.
I still don't get all the waylike I am at home because I'm
like Zola, I'm not polished atall.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
But again, I don't have anyone there that
necessarily looks like me in ahigher position.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I don't have anyone that looks like me.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
That's even my equal To protect you from that Exactly
.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
So I have to be this way all day, day, yeah yeah, I
get it I think you need to haveher bath water ready when she
come home rubbing her shoulderslike baby.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
What's wrong?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
we talk all the time.
We talk about this.
I talk to her while she's atwork.
We have a lot of conversationsthroughout the day and it's
amazing because I'm listening tothis and I'm going damn, I'm
still discovering so much andjust listening to you both and
seeing so many parallels toeverything.
Yeah, you know, maybe there'smore we can do, but, like,
overall, like the black womandoesn't feel protected by the
black men.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
So what's your experience been with that
feeling that way, whether it'sin life in general or at work?
Speaker 2 (40:35):
In life.
I will say my husband hasbecome more supportive of the
things that I do.
Does my husband still have avery male, chauvinistic view of
life?
Probably so, but it's okay,cause I can tell him like we're
comfortable in our marriage.
I could be like, uh, sexistmaybe, and he'll be like, yep, I
(40:58):
am.
And I'll be like, okay, well,let's roll with it, like I know
who I'm dealing with when it'sdealing with him.
We have clear roles defined inour house.
In certain elements, he can docertain things that I probably
would never, ever try to dobecause it would cause issues in
the marriage.
Nothing crazy, but they'redefined roles.
(41:18):
Do I feel protected?
I was raised by very strong andopinionated black women.
I'm a lot less than what theyare and that's a lot.
I didn't ever feel like Ineeded to be protected.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Because my mom, my grandma, my auntie, they gonna
say what they feel like and yougonna take it.
We are very Memphis women andif you know what that means, you
know what that means.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I met a few of y'all Crazy.
I was there for 10 years.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Right, it's like my grandma was from the country.
She would be probablyconsidered more like a cafe
woman because she hung out, shepartied, she did her thing, like
she wasn't, like a loose woman,you know, but she was
unapologetically who she was andyou was going to either accept
her or you wasn't.
So I can't say I necessarilylook for the protection of a man
(42:18):
.
So that might be where I can'tsay if I felt protected, because
I feel like if you don'tprotect me, I protect myself.
I have a defense mechanismalready.
It became an issue in ourmarriage at one point where and
I'll go into that- yeah, becausewe had that conversation.
But it became an issue in ourmarriage where he felt like I
(42:41):
didn't need him because I was sostrong, like I didn't need him
because I was so strong.
So that was where I had to letmy guard down and be like, if
you love this man enough to sayhe's your husband, allow him to
show up as your husband, so givehim the space to be the head of
the house.
But to this day and I love himdearly, to this day and I love
(43:03):
him dearly, but if somethinghappened to him or crumbled, I
wouldn't feel like who I am iscompletely gone as an existence
of a woman Totally, I get that.
I feel I'm safe enough with mystep.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
She's saying she don't need me.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I need him.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I'm sitting here, like girl.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
You better rephrase that your life is in shambles.
I would be hurt, I would bedevastated if my husband wasn't
there.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
The only one I know that has my back 100% is me.
He might got a 99.
But that 1% is somebody shoot agun.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
That 1% is a motherfucker.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
That 1% is a nigga about to leave me He'll be like
baby let go.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Protect yourself, boo , protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
He might shoot back, but he gonna be like you better
get going, baby duck.
I'll give you one example, andthen I'll be done, because I
worked in operations at the DCIf anybody ever lived in DC life
, warehouse, life you got tocome in there a little bit more,
you know.
So I had given them someinformation.
This one guy decided he wasgoing to come sit behind me and
(44:14):
he was a black man, but he wastalking aggressively over my
back about me.
So he like no, what we gonna dois and going ham on me and
behind my back.
And you know, in my thoughtprocess I was like OK, I could
cuss him out, but I need thisgood, paying job, so I'm going
to sit still.
I think my manager at the timetold him like like you need to
(44:36):
calm down, you know, let's talkabout this and refocused in the
meeting and came out the officeand he was like Patrice, I'm
sorry, I just got passionate.
I said no, no, let me tell yousomething.
You see me when I'm at work,but I'm going to tell you now,
if I go home, there's someonebigger and stronger that will
fuck you up.
(44:57):
That was the one time I feltprotected.
I threw him out there and I waslike but no, because, honestly,
he's because what he did inhindsight, we had a corporate
event and I told him.
I was like look, my husband,don't play about me.
Like you can come and think youfinna wolf somebody else, but
(45:18):
let me tell you, don't, I'msorry, so I'm gonna work on me.
So we had a Christmas party orsomething and Willie had to see
the guy and he sat him down atthe bar.
He was like I don't care what'sgoing on, don't talk to my wife
(45:40):
like that.
And the guy apologized, youknow.
He said I appreciate you, man.
I'm it was my bad, but I toldhim and my husband came and
backed that up.
Yeah, so I guess my babeprotected me.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Look at you boo baby, anybody yell at you lately,
anything?
Speaker 5 (46:04):
you didn't tell me.
Maybe anybody yell at youlately.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Anything you need to tell me.
They're so funny.
So black women beingunderprotected from a corporate
experience, it's absolutely truenecessarily been black men in
the environments that I've beenin to necessarily say, okay, I
know so-and-so has my back, or Iknow so-and-so will reinforce
(46:31):
what you know Zola has said,like I've never had that.
And where I'm at now, again thefirst token he's all for
himself I could be set on fireand he'll.
He wouldn't even look over tospit on me, you know.
So, from the corporateperspective, no, I'm not going
to sit here and make it soundlike you know I hate white
people, or white people haven'thelped me along the way, because
(46:53):
they absolutely have, becauseif they didn't, I wouldn't be in
the position that I am now.
The person that I learnedeverything from was a white
woman, but biggest bitch everlike ever in life.
She was just nasty, right, butbecause, again, I was a single
mom at the time, like you ain'tgoing, this ain't going to stop
me from collecting my coins,because, again, you have to know
(47:15):
your reason for showing up andno one can deter you from that.
So while I was there workingfor her, I was working on my
bachelor's degree and she waslazy, so she thought she was
doing herself a favor.
But that white woman taught meeverything I know.
She taught me how to do her jobas a controller and me being
(47:38):
who I am, I'm not going tocomplain.
I see you, I know what you dowhen you lazy and you think
you're dumping shit on me, butI'm learning how to do your job
Right.
So she indirectly taught meeverything I know and once I
mastered it, she was able to bepromoted to CFO.
I'm still in my same positionMeanwhile.
I'm still doing her job and Itook it.
(48:00):
I openly took it, I willinglytook it, because I, to her, she
was just like, oh, she's just,you know, when she's talked
about Zola, she's just so eagerto learn, you know, she's just
so eager to learn, you know.
And she, yeah, zola got it.
So that's her thing, like Zola,can take care of that.
Zola will take care of thatbecause, again, indirectly,
(48:23):
everything I know that womantaught me and I give her props
for it.
You know, for being lazy I giveher all the props, but she
taught me everything I knew,lazy bitch.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
Thank you, bitch.
She's dead now.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Aw dang.
That's the piece.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Say it again she my bad lady, Forgive me, forgive me
, but from that sense, like sheprotected me in my position,
like in some cases I was able tobe my authentic self because
she couldn't do the job, yeah,right, I'm doing the job, so I
(49:01):
can kind of be be able to getaway with a little bit of
whatever the fuck, because I wasthe face behind the face.
But I've had other experiencesin the outside world where I'm
just like these bitch ass niggas.
Right, I was just on a flightthe other day and you know, you
disembark the plane, you leavethe plane in an orderly fashion,
(49:22):
right, and there's littlenigglet.
A whole nigglet a little one whoraised you common curtis.
It should be embedded like whenyou're dealing with a woman,
it's always ladies first, it'salways black or white, it
doesn't matter, women first.
You protect women.
Girl, I'm reaching up for mybag, and he because you know, as
(49:46):
soon as the plane lands and theseatbelt, everybody just floods
, no, and you still end up stuckin the same place because
people are getting off by rows.
And he had his hand up likeblocking me in my face, and I
had to push his hand away, right, and then he kind of, you know,
gets out the way for a littlebit, but then once the line
starts to move, like he legitpushed me, got in front, like
(50:07):
push me out.
I'm like, I'm like atlanta gotsome bitch ass niggas and I said
it out loud and he turnedaround and our eyes made four.
Yes, I'm talking to you, butit's situations and instances
like that in the outside worldwhere you expect black men
teenage all the way you know tobe able to put black women right
, especially black women.
(50:27):
Show us some respect.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
Sounds like Zola, don't need you either.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
No, I need my man.
Don't get it twisted, I need myman.
Why you say either I didn't sayI didn't need you.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
We go talk in the car .
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Don't do that.
Don't put words in my mouth,and you better edit it out too.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
So it's like instances out there in the
outside world where it's justlike it's clear as day that we
aren't being protected by blackmen, even when it comes to Black
Lives Matter and all that.
And you hear about the you knowblack men getting killed and
then their tweets come out wherethey're like fuck a black woman
.
I wouldn't even fuck a blackdog unless it was a white dog.
(51:08):
Remember that last dude thatgot shot and everybody was like
now we just gonna.
The black women were just likenow we gonna sit this one out
right, yeah there are too manyinstances now where black women
are just like.
We're gonna sit this one outI'm in my fafo.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Hello, hey y'all.
What y'all doing out there in?
Speaker 3 (51:25):
the streets help me understand what that means yeah,
it's funny, but I will say forthe past three years, since I've
met steph from childhood allthe way up to adulthood, right,
it wasn't until like three yearsago that I realized what
(51:47):
protection was and feeling likesomeone had your back, like I'm
fully, 100% protectedemotionally, spiritually,
mentally and it wasn't until Imet Steph.
I've always had to be 100hundred percent independent,
like fully independent, like runmy own shit, independent, right
(52:07):
.
So?
And we did have a little bit ofum same thing being independent
for so long where you finallymeet a man and you don't
necessarily know how to treatthem because you've been
independent for so long.
You don't know how to besubmissive Submissive to who?
Submissive to what?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Right oh wow, exactly .
Speaker 3 (52:27):
And then it's the aggression that comes with it,
and not aggression in an angrysense.
It's the head of household,it's the I'm the provider, it's
the I take care of shit, likeyou know, making sure my kids
never lack for anything Roofover their head, like just being
that Everything that a man issupposed to be.
(52:49):
I was the man.
So when I met a man, I wasstill acting like I had that,
figuratively speaking, like Ihad that dick right.
So it was hard to reallyfeminize myself because, again,
personal, corporate, just allaround I was that person.
(53:11):
I had a lot of masculinity inme.
I still do.
It's just that, that protection, that knowing that I'm good.
Like before, I can be honestwith you.
I never slept at night, neverslept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right, I met this man and I can
be honest with you.
I never slept at night, neverslept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right, I met this man and I can
sleep like and he's like, baby,you was dead to the world.
(53:32):
Like, how do you do it?
that's good and I tell him allthe time I never slept before.
I have you, so I can sleep, Ican be at peace, I can be at
ease.
I can be at ease and I've never, ever, ever had that in life
like ever.
That protection, that, thatjust knowing that I'm good.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
I've never had that until I met Steph yeah, I just
want to applaud that, even atthis stage in life, you were
able to recognize it and changeit.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Girl, I ain't trying to lose my man, exactly, but
we're going to talk about thaton another episode, because I
think that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Women just be too strong, and I'm one of them.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
But it's about approach, see because I'm
headstrong, I'm very stubborn,like I'm very black and white.
There's never a gray area, I'mvery.
If you tell me this is whatneeds to be done, or, babe, I
have this business idea, I'm theone researching and I'll be
back to you in 48 business hoursand letting you know.
No, don't put that standard outthere.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
No, that's just me.
That's just me.
No, no, this one will hear thisand be like man can you get it
to me in 48 hours?
Speaker 4 (54:42):
I need it in 48 hours .
That'll be our next thingaround the house.
47 will be even better.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I told you he my Zola .
I cannot deal with that.
Okay, don't put that out there.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
So like that's just how I am right.
Yeah, but when I met Steph, itwasn't even intentionally like I
was trying, it was almost likehe brought out the femininity in
me.
Like I said, I'm still verymasculine you think you're a
soft girl era.
I'm very much in my soft girlera.
Before I was lifting shit girl.
(55:14):
Now I'm just like oh stuff,give me some.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
I can't do it like this is too heavy.
It's too heavy you be carrying22 grams of bags at one time.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
Like oh, this is too tight, you know, and he just
brings, he, you know, bringsthat out, naturally.
It's not something that I try todo, it's not something that I
can genuinely just be a womanand not have to worry about
certain things.
And when you know you have agood person that's standing
behind you, it's one of thosethings where you just naturally
(55:50):
want to conform Now, I'm notsaying lose your identity, you
know in this person because atthe end of the day it's still
just you.
Hello, right, but I love himenough to know that.
Ok, I need to fall back oncertain things, but then on
certain things I just nah, youain't going to no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I get it and I will say two things here One thing
about her and what I said whenwe introduced ourselves.
We said wives first, becausethat's still our primary job, so
no matter what happens out inthe corporate, world we still
have to show up and work.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Because that's the role that matters the most.
Right, like, yeah, I'm his wife, you know his wife, then mother
, and then I work for them folks.
But it's just, that's the rolethat's the most important, the
most fundamental, the most likebeneficial.
That's the role that matters tome.
Say mother first, but no, fuckthem kids, FDK girl.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
You know what, Zoma?
I'm starting to see you girl,I'm coming up to you.
I FDK all the time here.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
No, I you know I'm emotional, so I'm trying to keep
it together here.
But I love you, I appreciateyou.
I love you too, baby Aww.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
Look at him.
Look at him.
Speaker 4 (57:17):
I love you too, baby.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yo, baby, I love you, do it All right.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
So, so magic wand, what's the one thing if you
could change?
You got this magic wand and youcould change one thing.
You know that you're having toovercome daily, and not just for
yourself, but for other youngladies who are currently in
school learning, who are goingto be facing.
You know our daughter's incollege right now.
She's she's at Howard, so Godknows.
She's going to have an uphillbattle, especially in today's
climate.
(57:46):
If you could change one thing,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (57:48):
That HBCU is going to help her, just because it's a
different experience.
If you never went to one.
I promote those.
But one thing that I will say,if I could change in the world
for my daughter, that she wouldnot have to battle, or any of
the black ladies or young ladiesthat are going through is to
(58:09):
not be seen by color first.
Yeah, because we already haveto fight being a woman, but to
be seen as a black woman, youalready got a double-head sword.
I know they say that men haveit hard, black men have it hard
y' men have it hard.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Y'all got it harder, I know that.
Yeah, I know for a fact it'shard.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
I get to be one of the boys and go out with them
and whatever.
Right, you have it hard.
Black men don't get it wrong,they have it hard navigating
society outside All the bullshit, right.
We have it hard when we open oureyes.
So, from the time we open oureyes, the time we speak our
first word, the way we move ourbody, the way we comb our hair,
(58:49):
the way we put our clothes on,any and everything, before we
even step out the door, is onething we have.
Is our hair in a ponytail or doit need to be flowing down our
back?
Is it too short?
Is it too kinky?
Is it the right color?
(59:11):
Is our makeup overly dramaticor is it undertone?
If our lashes are too long, ifit's not?
You know all those, everyexpression of who we are.
Some people appreciate, somepeople don't.
It's getting critique.
I don't want that for my childappreciate.
Speaker 3 (59:26):
Some people don't.
It's getting critiqued.
I don't want that for my child.
Well, again, it's like thatperfect utopia, right Black and
white.
There is no gray area.
Reality is what it is.
The racial aggression what's inthe system now is only going to
be magnified.
It's not going away.
I actually see it getting worsefor generations to come.
And because this generation iskind of low-key, complicit, like
(59:47):
I see a lot of the things thatpeople fought for in the past.
I see a lot of those thingscoming back and we're seeing it
now.
A lot of these things arecoming back.
You know laws being revoked.
It's playing out right in frontof our faces.
So this generation is a littlebit more complicit with then.
You know more and you hear them.
You know talking about oh,we're not our ancestors, and
(01:00:08):
blah blah.
Yeah, you're right, you're notyour ancestors, right?
I'm not saying we have to beout there in the streets
protesting or whatever, becausethey are trying to evoke that
negative emotion from us inorder to do something more
extreme.
I understand that, but I don'twith the racial climate.
I don't see things gettingbetter.
So my contribution would be to,especially for Black young Black
(01:00:34):
girls, would be to arm themwith as much knowledge that I've
learned along the way along thejourney as to what they can
expect.
It's almost like grooming themto survive in corporate America.
Like, yes, we shouldn't have todo it, but the reality is that
we do have to do it andunfortunately you know a lot of
the scholars that are excellingnow.
(01:00:56):
They don't necessarily comefrom women who have been groomed
or have that, have had thatexposure.
So it should be taught at anHBCU Code switching 101, right,
surviving corporate America 101.
Like these are skills that needto be taught.
Like it really does, like itsounds, oh, it's not necessary.
(01:01:16):
No, it is very much necessary.
Like this, especially at anHBCU, that needs to be taught.
Allison's at an advantage bygrowing up with me, she sees I
don't sugarcoat anything from mydaughter or hide anything from
my daughter, so she knows she,she can code switch on you real
quick.
You know she's had practice andthe environments that she's
(01:01:37):
been in like have been a lot ofyou know, predominantly white
environments, but so sheunderstands the importance of it
.
But that would be mycontribution is just equipping
black women, or young blackwomen, with the knowledge on how
to survive, how to navigate theworld.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
I'll encourage a lot of men who have their wives in
those environments to understand, because I think that innately
for us as men, you know,especially when we got hard jobs
, we go out and we do somethingright.
We just we go work, and becausewe face not the same things but
we face our own set ofchallenges.
So when we go out, shit washard, we did this, we did that.
(01:02:12):
We come home and we expect youto be our comfort and be our
peace and everything else, notthinking twice about what you're
needing and what you had to putup with and the masks that you
had to wear all day long and howexhausting that is, especially
if the man has a physical job.
The mental exhaustion is a lotworse than physical exhaustion.
(01:02:33):
So I encourage them to kind ofthink back and have more of
these conversations to figureout how they can support their
women better, because it'ssomething that I have to be
reminded of every once in awhile.
I'm glad we had thisconversation so I could be more
cognizant of it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Earlier today I lost the goddamn coin.
Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
toss yeah yeah, yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yeah, you did.
So what that means is that Iget to do the outro and you guys
have to decide who I'm supposedto be impersonating Morgan
Freeman.
Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Morgan.
Yeah, we can do, morgan.
It's going to suck.
All right, you just got to godeep.
Go deep, morgan's not yes it is.
Morgan's very deep.
He's very deep In the beginning.
Speaker 5 (01:03:17):
Like yeah, you got to go deep In the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
If you're not already following the show, I encourage
you to hit that follow button.
What are you doing?
Go deeper, deeper, all right,then leave us a review, a
glorious five-star review.
It really helps us grow.
Join us next week when theconversation takes an ominous
(01:03:42):
turn as we recount two storiesfrom our co-host facing death
then getting a second chance atlife.
Thank you so much for tuning inand have a great week.
Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
That was funny, that was good, that was good.
That was more like his brotherMorris.
Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
Morris Frieden.
That was Morris Frieden, thatwas Morris, that was Morris
breathing.
Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
That was Morris, that was Morris you.
This is going to be a repeat episode, but I need to
explain something to everyonelistening here.
This is about black women ingeneral.
This is a crisis and it needsto be addressed, not by small
voices like myself, but by everysingle one of us.
This year alone, about 300,000black women have exited or been
(00:22):
pushed out of the US workforce,driven by DEI rollbacks, budget
cuts, layoffs.
Now, this is not just stats,it's a goddamn crisis.
And the thing is this DEI wasnever about hiring unqualified
people.
It was about removing barriersso qualified individuals
qualified individualshistorically overlooked due to
(00:44):
bias or systemic exclusion couldcompete.
Fair evaluations, diverseoutreach, structured interviews,
shit like that.
Black women are among the mosteducated groups in America.
They earn a disproportionatelylarge share of the degrees
awarded to students, often atthe master's and doctoral levels
(01:04):
, of the degrees awarded tostudents, often at the master's
and doctoral levels.
But obviously that's not enough.
And just to be clear, otherunderrepresented groups also
benefited from DEI Latinx, asian, indigenous people, people with
disabilities, many of thesegroups, they all gain access.
That was blocked before.
Dei isn't a subsidy.
It's a fairness correction.
That was blocked before.
Dei isn't a subsidy.
It's a fairness correction,that's it.
(01:25):
So the rollback on DEI isn'tmaking America more meritocratic
.
It's cutting off visibility,removing supports and often
re-erecting the old barriers,just on the new names.
This repeat episode needed tohappen.
It's one of our favorites.
It focuses on two black womenin corporate America and what
(01:47):
they put up with every day, whatthey have to go through.
I wanted to make sure I didn'tjust find two black women out of
work.
That's not the case.
I wanted to make sure that Ifind people who are working and
showcase their challenges, themicroaggressions they face and a
constant barrage of attacksthey have to fend off.
Be sure to share this with afriend.
(02:07):
Send it to someone who might bestruggling with such attacks.
Let them know they're not alone.
This episode was definitelyworth uploading again.
Enjoy.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
He said I don't want the inventory manager because I
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough, I'mstill learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Exactly, so the spotlight could have been on me.
Yeah, everyone around me knewit should have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
What's going on everyone.
Today's episode is one for thebooks.
We're switching gears andshining the spotlight on two
phenomenal women Patrice Nash, apowerhouse wife, mother and
corporate trailblazer, and myvery own queen Zola.
These two are stepping into thestudio to break down what it's
(03:21):
really like to navigate theshark infested waters of
corporate America as black women.
From boardrooms to backhandedcompliments, they're pulling no
punches and giving us theunfiltered truth with grace,
style and just the right amountof fire.
And oh way, listen.
(03:42):
We're also kicking off a brandnew tradition today.
It's called the Celebrity OutroChallenge.
So we flipped the coin beforethe show, before we hit record,
and the losers got to close outthe show with a bad celebrity
impression.
Stick around to find out who'sgetting roasted.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
(04:04):
Let's get to it.
So thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Oh hey.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Absolutely.
Thank you for being here.
I appreciate you guys so, sovery much for doing this.
This is going to be aninteresting topic because it's
one that we kind of touched on Afew episodes ago.
We talked about blackstereotypes, and one of them was
black women are angry and loud.
We talked about where thatstereotype comes from, and then
(04:43):
we touched on microaggressionsat work what you guys have to
face and deal with every day.
So why don't we just go aroundintroducing ourselves and then
we'll just get right into theconversation?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
All right, I am Patrice Nash.
I am the wife of Willie Nashand the mother of Marian Thomas.
I mentioned those because thoseare my jobs every day and I
also work as a sourcing wellsenior category manager.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I know people don't know what that means Nobody
knows what that is.
I know right, what is that?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I basically look at contracts and do big deal
negotiations for a Fortune 10company Wow yeah.
And then I also own my owncompany called perfect
perfections.
I do events as well as interiordesign.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
That's awesome.
And how long have you been withyour current career?
How long have you been doingthat?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So with McKesson, I've been with them for 15 years
for my company.
I started as a real company.
I established it in 2018.
Got it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Willie, we know you are.
It's not about you and me,brother, but I'm glad to have
you here, man.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Man glad to be here.
I'm glad to be back.
You know it's been a while.
Yes, sir you know, feeling likeI'm at home again.
Yeah let's do it.
I don't have to introducemyself.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
No you know you don't .
You know, everybody knowsyou're always late to this, but
it's funny because I said thismorning I went to get some
coffee and donuts and I'm comingback and Willie's already here.
I'm like she truly is the bestpart of you, because now you're
15 minutes early, because she'sshowing up.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
That's right, that's so funny, my better half.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I am stickler about time.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
There's a lot of stuff I don't play about.
Time is whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I am willie, willie is me and for the first time, I
have my lovely, beautiful wifeon the pod for the first time.
She's been trying to get awayfrom this.
She's been running away everytime I've asked her.
There's always a reason.
Something's not happening I.
It's just not my thing I know,and that's why there's no video
today.
I'm not even taking photos.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah.
So, babe, introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I'm Steph's wife.
Of course my name is Zola.
I work in private equity.
I've been doing with my currentcompany for about seven years
now.
Very interesting, so we'll diga little deeper into the
conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
For sure, Gotcha.
And let me ask you both whatlevel of schooling did you
attain?
I got my GED.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, I know, you got a high school diploma, we would
not be together For a TV andsome college.
You might not have graduated.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
But you went A little bit of college, you went to
college, you attempted.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I was there for the student loans.
They looking for me right now.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I have a bachelor's degree From the From Xavier
University Of Louisiana, hbcu,proud.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Oh man, I have my MBA , I have my MBA.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So let's talk about the biggest challenges that you
face, simply not because youhave that job in a position, but
either one of you can speak tothis because you are a black
woman in that space.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Well, you know me.
I've been working since I waslike 15, right?
None of my supervisors haveever been black, so I have been
groomed to talk that talk, walkthat walk and show up as what's
expected, right?
So it's not anything new.
(08:23):
It's almost like code switching.
That's exactly what it's called.
It's called code switchingwhere it's innate to me.
It comes so natural where it'slike in the parking lot.
I'm like shit.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yep, I got to put it on.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Even in the mornings.
Like don't talk to me in themornings, like I need time to
mentally prepare because it's adraining experience, right, but
again it's embedded in me.
So if I come home and I'm like,I'm tired, like it's not a
physical thing, it's just I ammentally drained.
So the expectation is I leavethe house a certain way but I
(09:01):
need to show up a certain wayand I have to be mindful of how
I show up.
Like I can't just show up andnot show all of my 32.
I need hi.
Good morning, how are you?
Did you have a good night?
Like you have to do that right.
Very engaging.
I can come in and just be likegood morning and go to my office
(09:23):
right, I can't do that.
But Amanda, she can walk in,not say a word and she's
perfectly good.
Oh, you know, amanda's justbeing Amanda, but Zola comes in
walks to her office, oh she's,she's so rude.
Well, you know why is she beingso rude this morning?
Or she might be a little bitaggressive today.
Don't go in there.
She didn't come in and you know, like so it's, it's just a
(09:45):
little.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You ain't chucking and jiving that morning.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Exactly, whereas I can't come in and just be me.
I can't come in and just belike everybody else.
I have to come in andoutperform.
I have to come in and do thatdance just to be accepted in
that space.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
So what was the original question?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
You've answered it.
Oh, you know, for the most partI mean, there's a whole lot
more to go into because you andI've had this conversation.
I'll be on the phone with her.
You know.
We're just talking throughmaybe the ride to work or
whatever, and she gets into theoffice and I hear the most
jovial, happy person becauseshe's saying hi to everyone and
smiling and I'm like the fuckhappened he go.
(10:31):
You must have just walked in theoffice you know and, and I
realize, that's what happensright, it's lights, camera
action, it's an act and you haveto turn it on because you can't
afford not to right.
What about you, patrice?
What are you running into?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
for me currently it's a lot better because on the
flip side I now have a vp who'safrican-amer woman, so she's
already set that bar of bringyour authentic self to work.
So I have like that defensebecause she's like over the
entire department and I have agreat relationship with her
(11:07):
because she's helped me along inmy career recently.
But in hindsight, I talked to alot of suppliers who are, you
know, VPs of companies,directors of companies.
They are majority Caucasian menwho have basically told me that
I don't know enough to tellthem what they're going to do
(11:29):
with their company, but I doknow enough to tell you what I'm
not going to do with ours.
So I have to fight that battle.
So I start off with the codeswitching Hi, how are you guys
doing?
But I'm learning that in thatthey think they can play in my
face for the most part and it'squickly turned around to the
no-no.
That's not what we're going todo.
(11:51):
So when they get hit with thatno-no, they already no-no.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
No, you have to check them.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, you have to come in like, okay, let me tell
you what we're not going to do.
And then it's like, oh, okay,so it's not that I'm not trying
to be the angry black woman, butI'm not going to be the little
black girl that you want,putting me in a position to
where I have this money.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Go to yes, and you can't lead that way.
You can't show up that way,because then automatically you
know what they already thoughtof you is.
Well, there you go, she'sproving it Right.
So you show up with all thepleasantries and the
professionalism and then you gettested.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes.
Now what I do know in my careeron the corporate side is when
they ask me my opinion on thecorporate side is when they ask
me my opinion, I don't startwith the issue.
I try to start with thepositive and then bring it back
with the issue, but in with thepositive and they say that's
easy, but you especially have todo it as a black woman.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Because if I leave, with the issue.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
They already think I'm the problem, so I can't
start with that part.
I have to be like well,everything is great, you know, I
don't see any issues with this,but this could be a concern for
someone else in this way, andthen it turns into you know what
the issue is, but I can't startwith y'all fucking up, you know
(13:12):
, because then they hear me asoh you the problem?
Yeah, is it us or is it you?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You mentioned something a little while ago
that I know, that black women ingeneral have struggled and
dealt with.
You have a black manager, right, your VP, the person you report
to.
She's a black woman.
So I've had discussions Onefriend for example, she was
saying that her manager is black.
But I think what happened isthis black woman has had to
prove herself so much that sheshows up that way all the time
(13:37):
and she was miserable to workfor.
So do you find that, instead ofhaving some type of alliance in
not just this current position,but in any position you both
have had to, where you've had todeal with another black woman
of an alliance, was there somekind of conflict?
Because she was black andinstead of looking out for you
and being that mentor that shecould be, it was the opposite?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I've had issues with lower management positions, not
higher, okay.
So when you're still at thatpoint in your career where
you're trying to prove yourself,I think black women can come
off, as I can't let this otherwoman it's not even like saying,
black woman, I can't letanybody in my department show me
up so they might notnecessarily have your back as
(14:23):
much.
In front of everyone they'requick to say, oh girl, you know,
I already know what's going on,but when it comes to the time
when it counts, they're stillout for themselves.
With my VP, she is moresolidified in her career.
She's older lady, she has donewhat she needs to do.
We had a very candidconversation when I started.
(14:46):
She was like I need your helpwith this department to start it
.
And I was like I'm sorry, but Idon't trust people with my
career.
And she was like trust me thisone time.
If I fail, you point it out,but trust me this one time.
And that was in 2020.
And I've for five years I'vebeen trusting her and she has
(15:08):
been showing up and showing outand I give her her flowers all
the time because I don't thinkenough people reach back and say
you know, I'll bring you withme on my journey yeah so for her
to be able to do that with me.
It's only right that I say youknow what I appreciate you for
everything you've done, becauseI've worked with a white woman
yeah and me and that heifer Iremember her you had to hear
(15:34):
about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
She stayed two doors down for a month.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So I'd be wanting to set her damn house on fire.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
She's this day, right now.
No, she don't stay in the house.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
She didn't move.
Y'all made a move.
We didn't necessarily make amove, but her working.
I'll get into that, we'llrevisit that.
But I didn't work with thatwoman, baby, let me tell you I
almost lost myself.
That's when I couldn't codeswitch no more.
I had to go off on her in heroffice.
(16:04):
I don't like you, you don'tlike me, I don't trust you.
You don't trust me.
But I'm going to tell you whatyou're not gonna do.
You're not gonna play with mylivelihood.
So yeah, we got through that wedid, we have, we have evolved
but this new VP, she reallylikes me she does she really
loves me.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
That's what matters.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
She likes me she really loves.
She's like how is Willie, thatis my friend.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I'm like that is not your friend.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
No, I'm just'm just playing.
She's a really, really genuineperson, god-fearing, and she's
God-fearing to the point whereshe don't have to say I'm
God-fearing, you just see it.
You know those people that gotsomething on their life, that's
her.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
We're not going to get into religion.
But that's the only type ofpeople that, when you talk about
God, that I respect.
You live it and I can see itthrough you.
You don't have to keep sayingit yes, I can see it based on
your actions, exactly.
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
So I guess, like I said, I've never had a black
supervisor in any capacity, nota team leader, not a known in
management, it's not necessarilymore so someone of the same
race keeping me down, but inevery company I've always been
the token black right thecurrent company.
(17:25):
Right now.
When I came in, there is ablack guy there, but girl, he
don't count, if you know whatI'm saying.
Yeah, okay, yeah he's, he's,he's there, yeah, I mean down to
the wife, the, the expectation,right, see, all we had to do
was see each other.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You saw how she gave me a look and I get out.
Yeah right, I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, so I don't understand that she stole me I
guess you know I came, I, youknow, did my 90 days and they
were like great, they'reacceptable.
You know what I mean.
They can perform, they can do.
And they brought in you know ablack receptionist and then you
know a black accountant and youknow, but it kind of hard, pause
(18:07):
.
You open the diversity, exactly.
It was like it was like youknow, kind of for them Like oh
OK, it's up there with theyspeak so well, you know, yeah.
(18:28):
But then when those women camein and the way they came in, I'm
like y'all ain't gonna fuckthis up for me, yeah, right,
because, again, I've worked veryhard to be the code switcher
that I am Like y'all ain't justgoing to come up in here and
fuck my shit up, right.
So we have to.
We're a reflection of eachother.
Yes, so in that sense,respectfully, I've had the
conversation with them, likelisten, this is a first for this
(18:49):
company.
This company has been aroundforever and of the 300 people,
we're the only three right now.
I was a test run.
I said it to them just likethat.
I'm a test run and with thattest run I performed.
So here you two go right.
So there's a way you need tolook.
There's a way you need to speak, there's things that you need
(19:11):
to leave at the door and whenyou come in, you have to be this
way.
You have to.
This is how they're looking atyou and what they're expecting.
So it's like I had to give themthe code switch in working in
corporate America 101 and theyweren't necessarily resistant to
it.
They were actually veryappreciative for the feedback
(19:32):
because that allowed them to,and I noticed the changes like,
immediately after thatconversation, the way they dress
.
You know there was no justbecause we're black women in the
office.
There's no sister girl talkright we save that for when we
bump into each other in thebathroom or in the kitchen.
You know like that, thatone-on-one thing.
But when, even when the eyesaren't watching, the eyes are
(19:56):
watching right, and we have tobe held to a certain standard
and kept at a certain standardin order to be in the
environment that we're in.
There's not a lot of blackwomen, there's not a lot of
minorities, period, not a lot ofeven white.
There are not a lot of whitewomen in the sector that I'm in.
So, now that we are here,regardless of our position the
(20:19):
janitor, the receptionist, itdoesn't matter we still have to
come in and perform at a certainand it's unfortunate, it's very
, very unfortunate that we haveto be this way, but if we want
to get that money, that's what Iwas going to say.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Is it in coaching them and showing them how to be
this way?
But if we want to get thatmoney?
That's what I was gonna say.
Is it in coaching them andshowing them how to be, how to
code, switch and all of that?
Is there an argument forsomeone saying, yeah, but you're
not.
You're teaching people how, nothow to not be authentic.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Um could not give a fuck about your authentic self.
You better not show up as yourauthentic self.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
I always tell people be your authentic self when it's
authentic.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Okay, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And I mean when you're in a meeting with
somebody.
That's a duty, that's a job.
That's something like yourduties assigned.
So why are you trying to beauthentic when I'm having a
conversation like she said thatsidebar conversation?
When I'm having a conversationlike she said, that sidebar
conversation, be yourself, bewho you want to be.
But when you are representingthe company, you're not
(21:20):
authentically the company.
When you leave that nine tofive, you don't live their life,
you don't live that brand,you're not all that stuff.
So you absorb what you need toabsorb.
Then and when you're sayingcode switch is not a bad thing,
you can't expect I can't expectto make a deal for 30 million
dollars for our company and belike, um, you know what I'm
(21:42):
saying, we ain't gonna be doingit, you know?
Yeah, I don't need to focus.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
That's not how I speak on a day-to-day, though,
like when I say code switchingno, but like no, no, I get what
you're saying.
No, I get what you're saying.
But when I show up and I'mspeaking with someone, this is
pretty much how I sound, becauseI didn't grow up in the hood,
(22:07):
like you know, I didn't havethat experience.
But I can keep it real and havethat girl to girl girlfriend
conversation with my peers,right, when I'm comfortable.
But when I'm comfortable, yeah.
So code switching for me is inthese spaces, in these corporate
spaces, like you always have tobe on, because here's the thing
(22:29):
, corporate America is a gameand no one is ever your friend,
ever, right?
So I have to be in my comfortzone, like you know, the one in
two people that I'm in mycomfort zone with at work, but
for the most part all my othercounterparts, however friendly
they may be, they will never seethat other side of me, they
(22:50):
will never see that that I'mkicking it, that you know.
Oh, let's hang out Like theywill never see that, because
it's a game, everybody is justtrying to excel and make it to
the top.
And the fact that I am there intheir space girl, I'd be walking
in the kitchen just to get ayogurt from the fridge and these
folks look terrified and I haveto be.
(23:10):
I have to disarm them Like hey,good morning, you know, I'm
just here to grab a yogurt.
Like they have never been inenvironments, especially
one-on-one situations, you can.
It's clear as day, right For adark-skinned sister to walk into
the kitchen.
I tell you it is exhausting.
So when I come home and I tellSteph that I am drained and I
don't have the bandwidth, I haveto do a lot of tap dancing to
(23:33):
collect this check.
It's not easy.
It's not easy at all andunfortunately, they do say show
up as your authentic self.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
but that is bullshit.
Except for you, Right, Exceptfor you.
That does not apply to me.
They say it, they live it Likeour company tells you.
You know, we even have the DEIprograms.
Know, because I am in the blackexcellence you kept it alive.
I'm always gonna be black everyday.
I tell them every day you'regonna see me, you'll see me
black as first.
But I have made it souncomfortable for others because
(24:08):
I'm I'm too old, I've been withthe company too long.
I got to got to that pointwhere I'm like, if you let me go
, hopefully it's with severance.
So if I calculate the amount ofweeks that you're going to pay
me, I don't do nothing to losethe job.
But you know if you're lookingat the people, you want to cut
some head count.
(24:29):
Ok, I got these years in I'mgood.
Okay, I got these years in I'mI'm good, but I get it like I've
had to do both.
I've had to live where, when Icame in, I had to tap dance on
everything.
I couldn't be the aggressiveblack woman, even though I was
in operations that you had to be.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
It's not even that you're.
You were going to be theaggressive black woman.
He just couldn't expressanything because if you did, it
was going to be misconstrued asbeing aggressive.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Well, no, I could express it, but they couldn't
hear me because, like I said, Ibrought the problem first and
then I'd be like, okay, no, no,your problem is this.
Let me give you a solution.
They didn't hear the solution.
All they heard was the problem.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
You have to speak their language in order for them
to understand.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So it was like and I could have two white guys that
reported to me one that was likemy homeboy, but he's still
white.
And I say homeboy because tothis day all of us are still
cool.
They've advanced in theircareer.
They're playing the game likethey need to play.
They've advanced higher than meand I'm okay with that because
we know they are white men thatfit that corporate.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
They don't have to do much.
They don't have to do much,right.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Now don't get me wrong, they are very smart in
everything that they do.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
They're still qualified, but there's nothing
going against them.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Their struggles are not the same struggles, correct,
so we could be sitting there.
I've told them before themeeting what I'm going to
present.
They told them before themeeting what I'm going to
present.
They're like yep, that's right,I agree, we need to do that.
I go to the meeting, I presentthat, I get looked at as the
(26:04):
issue.
Then they sit back, wait twominutes and say, well, I'm going
to circle back and I think weneed to do that.
What Patrice said.
They'll even say my name and weneed to do X, y and Z.
You know what you were right,you are.
I think that's what we're goingto do.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
That's fucking insane .
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, what the hell We've been mean for an extra 30
minutes, and I told y'all thatwhen I first came in.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I know I say that to you all the time.
It sounds like a skip, likeit's like I'm watching some kind
of reality.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I would put it like this there was recently a black
woman in history who told us allthe shit we was going to face.
She was qualified, had everydegree, had went through every
level of politics, fought herway to the top.
She told everybody here's theblueprint that these white folks
(26:50):
wrote for y'all.
And this is what's going tohappen.
I'm telling you, I will fightfor you.
And where is she?
Oh Crickets.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So that's what I'm saying.
If the woman at this level,with all these accolades, can go
through all of this and nobodyshowed up for her, that's why we
say we're not.
And she light-skinned, that'swhy we say we're not.
And she light skinned.
She light skinned, black.
She was the one she wasacceptable in all circles of
(27:24):
what we could even potentiallybe in.
White husband didn't have achild, so she could fight with
her career, so she didn't haveto balance home life versus work
life.
Then she got all the degrees Imean.
You know she could talk thetalk she don't.
Went and fought in othercountries for our rights and
they accept her in othercountries more than we accept
(27:46):
her.
And the only people that showedup for her was black women, a
few black men, don't get mewrong.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I understand that and I exactly, but we're not going
to get into politics.
But I told steph the reason shedid not win was because for the
four years she was in officeshe never showed up.
She didn't start no lunchinitiative.
She didn't go out there andplant no trees.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
She did but that's what y'all wanted her for.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Oh, bought me for michelle, but, michelle, if you
take what she did, I don't meanto say I don't mean to override
you, but you cannot say you'regoing to run for the highest
position in the united states.
Meanwhile you were silent.
Your the past four years.
That's like being that was anissue, that's like being
mediocre for four years.
And then me showing up to myboss talking about something I
(28:34):
want to raise.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
But let me ask you this Was it, was she silent, or
did the media not portray her?
Because when you go back to it,I think it's not.
I don't think she wasnecessarily silent.
I really don't.
Because when we look at the HBCUbills, that was her.
When we look at the studentloans, who fought with Biden to
(28:55):
make sure that was her?
But they put Biden's name on it, like they have done every vice
president before.
If you look at any previousvice president, they wasn't in
there showing all the thingsthat they did, but they didn't
have to fight like her.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
But attention spans are short, right, so coming off,
biden was Obama and Bidencoming but what did Biden do?
hold on, but you never saw Obamawithout seeing Biden somewhere
in the back looking in a corner.
So his presence was always atthe forefront in some way shape
or form.
Now I don't know if it'sbecause you know she was a black
(29:31):
woman or what the deal was, whyshe was never.
You know, whenever you sawBiden, you saw Kamala somewhere
in the back.
You know.
She was just never there.
I don't know if her absence wasintentional, but she was just
never present in the way thatshe should have been and my
question would be was it because, or initially, she wasn't
(29:52):
running?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
it was always going to be biting, but we kept
calling him sleepy joe.
Which hell I take sleepy joe,go to sleep, but if we?
And it's like she couldn'toutshadow the white man, but
then she can't be in thebackground without saying look
at me, look at me, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
So that's the battle I fight at work, and that means
she was just complicit to herposition, right, she never took
the initiative to inject herself, and when she tried to inject
herself.
It's almost like it's too lateAgain.
You can't be mediocre.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Showing up.
Did she try to inject herself,or did the press then start
focusing on her?
Speaker 3 (30:31):
But it's not a matter of the press.
There are other social mediaplatforms where you can be
active.
Right, I can get that.
So you don't have tonecessarily need mainstream
media to be active, especiallyas it pertains to the black
community.
Right, you got the clout whereShade Room will post you.
Right, you got the clout whereHollywood Unlocked they will
(30:52):
post you.
I mean means so many socialmedia sites that target black
people, and she even her ownpage, again.
If you want to keep your peoplelike, you have to interact with
them in some way, shape or form, and when you're silent on your
people and not speaking up whenyou want us to show up, you're
not necessarily going to get thethe the correct response.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I get what you're saying.
I debate it.
But I know we said no politics,but I debate it.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
We'll argue later.
Yes, over some wine, over somewine.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Because I guess because she was such a pivotal
part of the HBCU community, Ifollowed her more so I paid
attention to what she did withthe black doctors, the OBGYN,
the mortality, all these thingsbefore it became part of her
campaign.
But I also recognize, and evenin my career, that example I was
(31:47):
given.
I could sit there and doeverything, perfect.
I'll use the example of whatreal life, what pissed me off
and why.
I related to what was happeningto her when I got the job at my
DC and that's what brought usto Atlanta.
The DC was underperforming.
It was having issues withemployees, union conversations,
(32:10):
issues.
They brought me on to turn itaround in inventory.
They were like we're losingmillions of dollars in inventory
.
We we ran a very marginal likeloss that you could had to be
like point zero, zero, threepercent of loss because we're
thinking about drugs here she'sa drug dealer I was a drug
(32:30):
dealer at that time.
You still got that.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
No, I ain't got that.
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
So I come from Memphis to Atlanta bigger DC
hard to turn around.
Within two months we doneturned it around.
We have everything accountable.
We got everything going.
We're fixing things.
We can see everything happening.
That's an extremely quickturnaround.
Right're fixing things.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
We could see everything happening.
That's an extremely quickturnaround.
Right Two months.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
It was just some processes and that wasn't in
place.
Just knowing the process thatwe ran in Memphis that I learned
bring them here, execute them,tailor it to what is needed here
, keep it going Okay.
Again, my white counterpart whowas the assistant inventory
manager.
He said I don't want theinventory manager because I
(33:18):
didn't know enough.
I couldn't do what you do.
I still don't know enough.
I'm still learning from you.
They turned around and gave himan award for excellence.
You should me.
No matter what I did, I wasn'tlooked at and told me to write
the letter for his excellence.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Wow, Sounds about right.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Exactly.
Wow, so the spotlight couldhave been on me.
Yeah, Everyone around me knewit should have been on me, but
because of who I am and thecolor of my skin, it was on him.
So then I'm sitting in the nextmeeting telling him what needs
to get done and this white womansaying no, no, I don't want to
(33:58):
listen to her because I can'ttell from her facial expressions
if she's serious or not.
What the fuck?
You mean?
If I said it, I was serious.
If I emailed you, I was serious.
If I told you in ourone-on-ones, I was serious.
Just because I didn't.
Hey, you know what I'm saying.
We need to do this now.
(34:19):
Then I'd be the angry blackwoman.
I'm trying to do it with asmile To try to keep the morale
here, but this person, who goteven a chippier smile than me,
tells y'all the same thing.
I can listen to him.
He knows you're going to givehim the accolades again.
So, no matter what she did, shewasn't going to get it because
(34:39):
of the color of her skin.
So it's debatable.
Yeah, she could have been outthere Look at me, look at me but
then she would have been theblack woman that feels like she
got to upstage the president.
So where do you find thatbalance For me?
I had to find a balance andmove away from that department
because I found that that wasn'tconducive to what I needed in
(35:00):
my life.
It was causing me to come hometo him and not be able to give
my all when somebody can sitthere and tell me you need to
tell your husband to walk yourkids to the bus stop because I
expect you to be here longer.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
And I ain't walking no kids to the bus stop.
Exactly Like ma'am, I ain'ttalking about Willie, I ain't
walking no kids to the bus stopand I have to tell her.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I'm sorry, I know your husband's a stay-at-home
husband, but mine has a job.
He's the head of our household.
You're the head of yourhousehold.
No, ma'am, I will walk my kidsto the bus and try to fire me.
And again, I'm with the companyand she's not because I had to
stand my ground and tell her no.
(35:41):
But you know all the thingsthat I had to go through to even
get told you were right.
I had to document, I had tohave conversations with every
single person.
I had to have conversationswith every single person.
Tell them I need you to go tothis person and have a
conversation to combat what thisone person said, while I was
damn near on my deathbed Becauseshe wanted to lie and say I
(36:03):
didn't know and everybodybelieved her.
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the shit, you guys go through
Receipts.
I keep a receipt, yeah, I keepa receipt.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
That I keep a receipt .
Speaker 3 (36:14):
That's why I told you I do not communicate over the
phone.
I do not communicateface-to-face in office and if I
do, I always send an emailfollowing up with our discussion
and I reiterate every singlething that was discussed,
Because you can never say oh no,and I will find my receipts.
That's just how it is.
I keep telling people corporateAmerica is a game, like it's a
(36:37):
game and you have to know how toplay it.
Like she was saying, I'veexperienced that too, where you
say something but they don'thear you.
Right, and it took me a fewtries, or a few instances
Instances is a better word ittook me a few instances to
realize what it is.
And you're absolutely correctbeing a black woman, you cannot
start.
It could be a meeting regardinga problem, about the problem.
(37:00):
How are we going to fix theproblem pertaining to the
problem?
Right, Because there's sixmeetings for that.
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I know right.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
But you can if it's a meeting about the problem.
As a black woman, you can'tstart off with attacking the
problem.
Your white counterparts can.
They can even say the problemis this, right?
We can't say the problem isthis.
You have to ease into it, right, you have to pacify the muscle.
You have to pacify them andthen gently ease into what the
(37:31):
issue is and how you, what yoursolution is for it.
But you can't go into anymeeting, especially as a black
woman, directly addressing theproblem.
You have to let everyone knowwhat the company has been doing
great so far, which is bullshit,because if you were doing great
so far, we wouldn't have thisproblem, yep.
But you have to go into whatwe've been doing great so far as
(37:54):
a team and you have tohighlight your supervisors or
your direct managers.
You know their contributions,you know and then ease into.
Well, you know we've stumbledinto this obstacle.
We've stumbled into thisobstacle where you know this is
what's happening and how do werectify that, and then you can't
(38:16):
even necessarily take creditfor it to say I think you have
to say, well, as a team, weshould, we should, or as a team,
we've reviewed and concludedthat this might be the best
solution.
You can't say I Zola, as inblack, in black, zola, you know,
I can deliver, I can present,but I can't take credit, for it
(38:38):
has to be as a team, and if mysupervisor or my superior is
really legit and about that shit, he'll be like no, this was
Zola's idea and give me thecredit where credit is due.
But I dare not stand in frontof a room and take credit and
say I did, or I think that's notacceptable, you know how many
emails?
(38:59):
I have with we is this 2025.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
This is 2025, you know how many emails I start off
with we and I am an individualcontributor like who the fuck is
we?
who is this we?
If he saw the emails where Isaid we have come to the
conclusion and he be like whothe fuck said we have come to
the conclusion?
Who the fuck is we?
I literally have to go call myboss and be like hey, so I'm
going to put we on here.
But I just want you to knowwhat I'm going to tell these
(39:22):
folks.
He'll be like go with it, okay,we good.
I just don't want nobody to sayyou don't want no surprises.
So I'm letting you know switchwith my boss as much.
I still don't get all the waylike I am at home because I'm
like Zola, I'm not polished atall.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
But again, I don't have anyone there that
necessarily looks like me in ahigher position.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I don't have anyone that looks like me.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
That's even my equal To protect you from that Exactly
.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
So I have to be this way all day, day, yeah yeah, I
get it I think you need to haveher bath water ready when she
come home rubbing her shoulderslike baby.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
What's wrong?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
we talk all the time.
We talk about this.
I talk to her while she's atwork.
We have a lot of conversationsthroughout the day and it's
amazing because I'm listening tothis and I'm going damn, I'm
still discovering so much andjust listening to you both and
seeing so many parallels toeverything.
Yeah, you know, maybe there'smore we can do, but, like,
overall, like the black womandoesn't feel protected by the
black men.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
So what's your experience been with that
feeling that way, whether it'sin life in general or at work?
Speaker 2 (40:35):
In life.
I will say my husband hasbecome more supportive of the
things that I do.
Does my husband still have avery male, chauvinistic view of
life?
Probably so, but it's okay,cause I can tell him like we're
comfortable in our marriage.
I could be like, uh, sexistmaybe, and he'll be like, yep, I
(40:58):
am.
And I'll be like, okay, well,let's roll with it, like I know
who I'm dealing with when it'sdealing with him.
We have clear roles defined inour house.
In certain elements, he can docertain things that I probably
would never, ever try to dobecause it would cause issues in
the marriage.
Nothing crazy, but they'redefined roles.
(41:18):
Do I feel protected?
I was raised by very strong andopinionated black women.
I'm a lot less than what theyare and that's a lot.
I didn't ever feel like Ineeded to be protected.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Because my mom, my grandma, my auntie, they gonna
say what they feel like and yougonna take it.
We are very Memphis women andif you know what that means, you
know what that means.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I met a few of y'all Crazy.
I was there for 10 years.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Right, it's like my grandma was from the country.
She would be probablyconsidered more like a cafe
woman because she hung out, shepartied, she did her thing, like
she wasn't, like a loose woman,you know, but she was
unapologetically who she was andyou was going to either accept
her or you wasn't.
So I can't say I necessarilylook for the protection of a man
(42:18):
.
So that might be where I can'tsay if I felt protected, because
I feel like if you don'tprotect me, I protect myself.
I have a defense mechanismalready.
It became an issue in ourmarriage at one point where and
I'll go into that- yeah, becausewe had that conversation.
But it became an issue in ourmarriage where he felt like I
(42:41):
didn't need him because I was sostrong, like I didn't need him
because I was so strong.
So that was where I had to letmy guard down and be like, if
you love this man enough to sayhe's your husband, allow him to
show up as your husband, so givehim the space to be the head of
the house.
But to this day and I love himdearly, to this day and I love
(43:03):
him dearly, but if somethinghappened to him or crumbled, I
wouldn't feel like who I am iscompletely gone as an existence
of a woman Totally, I get that.
I feel I'm safe enough with mystep.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
She's saying she don't need me.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I need him.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
I'm sitting here, like girl.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
You better rephrase that your life is in shambles.
I would be hurt, I would bedevastated if my husband wasn't
there.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
The only one I know that has my back 100% is me.
He might got a 99.
But that 1% is somebody shoot agun.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
That 1% is a motherfucker.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
That 1% is a nigga about to leave me He'll be like
baby let go.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Protect yourself, boo , protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
He might shoot back, but he gonna be like you better
get going, baby duck.
I'll give you one example, andthen I'll be done, because I
worked in operations at the DCIf anybody ever lived in DC life
, warehouse, life you got tocome in there a little bit more,
you know.
So I had given them someinformation.
This one guy decided he wasgoing to come sit behind me and
(44:14):
he was a black man, but he wastalking aggressively over my
back about me.
So he like no, what we gonna dois and going ham on me and
behind my back.
And you know, in my thoughtprocess I was like OK, I could
cuss him out, but I need thisgood, paying job, so I'm going
to sit still.
I think my manager at the timetold him like like you need to
(44:36):
calm down, you know, let's talkabout this and refocused in the
meeting and came out the officeand he was like Patrice, I'm
sorry, I just got passionate.
I said no, no, let me tell yousomething.
You see me when I'm at work,but I'm going to tell you now,
if I go home, there's someonebigger and stronger that will
fuck you up.
(44:57):
That was the one time I feltprotected.
I threw him out there and I waslike but no, because, honestly,
he's because what he did inhindsight, we had a corporate
event and I told him.
I was like look, my husband,don't play about me.
Like you can come and think youfinna wolf somebody else, but
(45:18):
let me tell you, don't, I'msorry, so I'm gonna work on me.
So we had a Christmas party orsomething and Willie had to see
the guy and he sat him down atthe bar.
He was like I don't care what'sgoing on, don't talk to my wife
(45:40):
like that.
And the guy apologized, youknow.
He said I appreciate you, man.
I'm it was my bad, but I toldhim and my husband came and
backed that up.
Yeah, so I guess my babeprotected me.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Look at you boo baby, anybody yell at you lately,
anything?
Speaker 5 (46:04):
you didn't tell me.
Maybe anybody yell at youlately.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Anything you need to tell me.
They're so funny.
So black women beingunderprotected from a corporate
experience, it's absolutely truenecessarily been black men in
the environments that I've beenin to necessarily say, okay, I
know so-and-so has my back, or Iknow so-and-so will reinforce
(46:31):
what you know Zola has said,like I've never had that.
And where I'm at now, again thefirst token he's all for
himself I could be set on fireand he'll.
He wouldn't even look over tospit on me, you know.
So, from the corporateperspective, no, I'm not going
to sit here and make it soundlike you know I hate white
people, or white people haven'thelped me along the way, because
(46:53):
they absolutely have, becauseif they didn't, I wouldn't be in
the position that I am now.
The person that I learnedeverything from was a white
woman, but biggest bitch everlike ever in life.
She was just nasty, right, butbecause, again, I was a single
mom at the time, like you ain'tgoing, this ain't going to stop
me from collecting my coins,because, again, you have to know
(47:15):
your reason for showing up andno one can deter you from that.
So while I was there workingfor her, I was working on my
bachelor's degree and she waslazy, so she thought she was
doing herself a favor.
But that white woman taught meeverything I know.
She taught me how to do her jobas a controller and me being
(47:38):
who I am, I'm not going tocomplain.
I see you, I know what you dowhen you lazy and you think
you're dumping shit on me, butI'm learning how to do your job
Right.
So she indirectly taught meeverything I know and once I
mastered it, she was able to bepromoted to CFO.
I'm still in my same positionMeanwhile.
I'm still doing her job and Itook it.
(48:00):
I openly took it, I willinglytook it, because I, to her, she
was just like, oh, she's just,you know, when she's talked
about Zola, she's just so eagerto learn, you know, she's just
so eager to learn, you know.
And she, yeah, zola got it.
So that's her thing, like Zola,can take care of that.
Zola will take care of thatbecause, again, indirectly,
(48:23):
everything I know that womantaught me and I give her props
for it.
You know, for being lazy I giveher all the props, but she
taught me everything I knew,lazy bitch.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
Thank you, bitch.
She's dead now.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Aw dang.
That's the piece.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Say it again she my bad lady, Forgive me, forgive me
, but from that sense, like sheprotected me in my position,
like in some cases I was able tobe my authentic self because
she couldn't do the job, yeah,right, I'm doing the job, so I
(49:01):
can kind of be be able to getaway with a little bit of
whatever the fuck, because I wasthe face behind the face.
But I've had other experiencesin the outside world where I'm
just like these bitch ass niggas.
Right, I was just on a flightthe other day and you know, you
disembark the plane, you leavethe plane in an orderly fashion,
(49:22):
right, and there's littlenigglet.
A whole nigglet a little one whoraised you common curtis.
It should be embedded like whenyou're dealing with a woman,
it's always ladies first, it'salways black or white, it
doesn't matter, women first.
You protect women.
Girl, I'm reaching up for mybag, and he because you know, as
(49:46):
soon as the plane lands and theseatbelt, everybody just floods
, no, and you still end up stuckin the same place because
people are getting off by rows.
And he had his hand up likeblocking me in my face, and I
had to push his hand away, right, and then he kind of, you know,
gets out the way for a littlebit, but then once the line
starts to move, like he legitpushed me, got in front, like
(50:07):
push me out.
I'm like, I'm like atlanta gotsome bitch ass niggas and I said
it out loud and he turnedaround and our eyes made four.
Yes, I'm talking to you, butit's situations and instances
like that in the outside worldwhere you expect black men
teenage all the way you know tobe able to put black women right
, especially black women.
(50:27):
Show us some respect.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
Sounds like Zola, don't need you either.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
No, I need my man.
Don't get it twisted, I need myman.
Why you say either I didn't sayI didn't need you.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
We go talk in the car .
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Don't do that.
Don't put words in my mouth,and you better edit it out too.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
So it's like instances out there in the
outside world where it's justlike it's clear as day that we
aren't being protected by blackmen, even when it comes to Black
Lives Matter and all that.
And you hear about the you knowblack men getting killed and
then their tweets come out wherethey're like fuck a black woman
.
I wouldn't even fuck a blackdog unless it was a white dog.
(51:08):
Remember that last dude thatgot shot and everybody was like
now we just gonna.
The black women were just likenow we gonna sit this one out
right, yeah there are too manyinstances now where black women
are just like.
We're gonna sit this one outI'm in my fafo.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Hello, hey y'all.
What y'all doing out there in?
Speaker 3 (51:25):
the streets help me understand what that means yeah,
it's funny, but I will say forthe past three years, since I've
met steph from childhood allthe way up to adulthood, right,
it wasn't until like three yearsago that I realized what
(51:47):
protection was and feeling likesomeone had your back, like I'm
fully, 100% protectedemotionally, spiritually,
mentally and it wasn't until Imet Steph.
I've always had to be 100hundred percent independent,
like fully independent, like runmy own shit, independent, right
(52:07):
.
So?
And we did have a little bit ofum same thing being independent
for so long where you finallymeet a man and you don't
necessarily know how to treatthem because you've been
independent for so long.
You don't know how to besubmissive Submissive to who?
Submissive to what?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Right oh wow, exactly .
Speaker 3 (52:27):
And then it's the aggression that comes with it,
and not aggression in an angrysense.
It's the head of household,it's the I'm the provider, it's
the I take care of shit, likeyou know, making sure my kids
never lack for anything Roofover their head, like just being
that Everything that a man issupposed to be.
(52:49):
I was the man.
So when I met a man, I wasstill acting like I had that,
figuratively speaking, like Ihad that dick right.
So it was hard to reallyfeminize myself because, again,
personal, corporate, just allaround I was that person.
(53:11):
I had a lot of masculinity inme.
I still do.
It's just that, that protection, that knowing that I'm good.
Like before, I can be honestwith you.
I never slept at night, neverslept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right, I met this man and I can
be honest with you.
I never slept at night, neverslept at night.
My sleep would be so erratic,right, I met this man and I can
sleep like and he's like, baby,you was dead to the world.
(53:32):
Like, how do you do it?
that's good and I tell him allthe time I never slept before.
I have you, so I can sleep, Ican be at peace, I can be at
ease.
I can be at ease and I've never, ever, ever had that in life
like ever.
That protection, that, thatjust knowing that I'm good.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
I've never had that until I met Steph yeah, I just
want to applaud that, even atthis stage in life, you were
able to recognize it and changeit.
Speaker 3 (54:04):
Girl, I ain't trying to lose my man, exactly, but
we're going to talk about thaton another episode, because I
think that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Women just be too strong, and I'm one of them.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
But it's about approach, see because I'm
headstrong, I'm very stubborn,like I'm very black and white.
There's never a gray area, I'mvery.
If you tell me this is whatneeds to be done, or, babe, I
have this business idea, I'm theone researching and I'll be
back to you in 48 business hoursand letting you know.
No, don't put that standard outthere.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
No, that's just me.
That's just me.
No, no, this one will hear thisand be like man can you get it
to me in 48 hours?
Speaker 4 (54:42):
I need it in 48 hours .
That'll be our next thingaround the house.
47 will be even better.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I told you he my Zola .
I cannot deal with that.
Okay, don't put that out there.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
So like that's just how I am right.
Yeah, but when I met Steph, itwasn't even intentionally like I
was trying, it was almost likehe brought out the femininity in
me.
Like I said, I'm still verymasculine you think you're a
soft girl era.
I'm very much in my soft girlera.
Before I was lifting shit girl.
(55:14):
Now I'm just like oh stuff,give me some.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
I can't do it like this is too heavy.
It's too heavy you be carrying22 grams of bags at one time.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
Like oh, this is too tight, you know, and he just
brings, he, you know, bringsthat out, naturally.
It's not something that I try todo, it's not something that I
can genuinely just be a womanand not have to worry about
certain things.
And when you know you have agood person that's standing
behind you, it's one of thosethings where you just naturally
(55:50):
want to conform Now, I'm notsaying lose your identity, you
know in this person because atthe end of the day it's still
just you.
Hello, right, but I love himenough to know that.
Ok, I need to fall back oncertain things, but then on
certain things I just nah, youain't going to no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I get it and I will say two things here One thing
about her and what I said whenwe introduced ourselves.
We said wives first, becausethat's still our primary job, so
no matter what happens out inthe corporate, world we still
have to show up and work.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Because that's the role that matters the most.
Right, like, yeah, I'm his wife, you know his wife, then mother
, and then I work for them folks.
But it's just, that's the rolethat's the most important, the
most fundamental, the most likebeneficial.
That's the role that matters tome.
Say mother first, but no, fuckthem kids, FDK girl.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
You know what, Zoma?
I'm starting to see you girl,I'm coming up to you.
I FDK all the time here.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
No, I you know I'm emotional, so I'm trying to keep
it together here.
But I love you, I appreciateyou.
I love you too, baby Aww.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
Look at him.
Look at him.
Speaker 4 (57:17):
I love you too, baby.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yo, baby, I love you, do it All right.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
So, so magic wand, what's the one thing if you
could change?
You got this magic wand and youcould change one thing.
You know that you're having toovercome daily, and not just for
yourself, but for other youngladies who are currently in
school learning, who are goingto be facing.
You know our daughter's incollege right now.
She's she's at Howard, so Godknows.
She's going to have an uphillbattle, especially in today's
climate.
(57:46):
If you could change one thing,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (57:48):
That HBCU is going to help her, just because it's a
different experience.
If you never went to one.
I promote those.
But one thing that I will say,if I could change in the world
for my daughter, that she wouldnot have to battle, or any of
the black ladies or young ladiesthat are going through is to
(58:09):
not be seen by color first.
Yeah, because we already haveto fight being a woman, but to
be seen as a black woman, youalready got a double-head sword.
I know they say that men haveit hard, black men have it hard
y' men have it hard.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Y'all got it harder, I know that.
Yeah, I know for a fact it'shard.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
I get to be one of the boys and go out with them
and whatever.
Right, you have it hard.
Black men don't get it wrong,they have it hard navigating
society outside All the bullshit, right.
We have it hard when we open oureyes.
So, from the time we open oureyes, the time we speak our
first word, the way we move ourbody, the way we comb our hair,
(58:49):
the way we put our clothes on,any and everything, before we
even step out the door, is onething we have.
Is our hair in a ponytail or doit need to be flowing down our
back?
Is it too short?
Is it too kinky?
Is it the right color?
(59:11):
Is our makeup overly dramaticor is it undertone?
If our lashes are too long, ifit's not?
You know all those, everyexpression of who we are.
Some people appreciate, somepeople don't.
It's getting critique.
I don't want that for my childappreciate.
Speaker 3 (59:26):
Some people don't.
It's getting critiqued.
I don't want that for my child.
Well, again, it's like thatperfect utopia, right Black and
white.
There is no gray area.
Reality is what it is.
The racial aggression what's inthe system now is only going to
be magnified.
It's not going away.
I actually see it getting worsefor generations to come.
And because this generation iskind of low-key, complicit, like
(59:47):
I see a lot of the things thatpeople fought for in the past.
I see a lot of those thingscoming back and we're seeing it
now.
A lot of these things arecoming back.
You know laws being revoked.
It's playing out right in frontof our faces.
So this generation is a littlebit more complicit with then.
You know more and you hear them.
You know talking about oh,we're not our ancestors, and
(01:00:08):
blah blah.
Yeah, you're right, you're notyour ancestors, right?
I'm not saying we have to beout there in the streets
protesting or whatever, becausethey are trying to evoke that
negative emotion from us inorder to do something more
extreme.
I understand that, but I don'twith the racial climate.
I don't see things gettingbetter.
So my contribution would be to,especially for Black young Black
(01:00:34):
girls, would be to arm themwith as much knowledge that I've
learned along the way along thejourney as to what they can
expect.
It's almost like grooming themto survive in corporate America.
Like, yes, we shouldn't have todo it, but the reality is that
we do have to do it andunfortunately you know a lot of
the scholars that are excellingnow.
(01:00:56):
They don't necessarily comefrom women who have been groomed
or have that, have had thatexposure.
So it should be taught at anHBCU Code switching 101, right,
surviving corporate America 101.
Like these are skills that needto be taught.
Like it really does, like itsounds, oh, it's not necessary.
(01:01:16):
No, it is very much necessary.
Like this, especially at anHBCU, that needs to be taught.
Allison's at an advantage bygrowing up with me, she sees I
don't sugarcoat anything from mydaughter or hide anything from
my daughter, so she knows she,she can code switch on you real
quick.
You know she's had practice andthe environments that she's
(01:01:37):
been in like have been a lot ofyou know, predominantly white
environments, but so sheunderstands the importance of it
.
But that would be mycontribution is just equipping
black women, or young blackwomen, with the knowledge on how
to survive, how to navigate theworld.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
I'll encourage a lot of men who have their wives in
those environments to understand, because I think that innately
for us as men, you know,especially when we got hard jobs
, we go out and we do somethingright.
We just we go work, and becausewe face not the same things but
we face our own set ofchallenges.
So when we go out, shit washard, we did this, we did that.
(01:02:12):
We come home and we expect youto be our comfort and be our
peace and everything else, notthinking twice about what you're
needing and what you had to putup with and the masks that you
had to wear all day long and howexhausting that is, especially
if the man has a physical job.
The mental exhaustion is a lotworse than physical exhaustion.
(01:02:33):
So I encourage them to kind ofthink back and have more of
these conversations to figureout how they can support their
women better, because it'ssomething that I have to be
reminded of every once in awhile.
I'm glad we had thisconversation so I could be more
cognizant of it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Earlier today I lost the goddamn coin.
Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
toss yeah yeah, yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yeah, you did.
So what that means is that Iget to do the outro and you guys
have to decide who I'm supposedto be impersonating Morgan
Freeman.
Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Morgan.
Yeah, we can do, morgan.
It's going to suck.
All right, you just got to godeep.
Go deep, morgan's not yes it is.
Morgan's very deep.
He's very deep In the beginning.
Speaker 5 (01:03:17):
Like yeah, you got to go deep In the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
If you're not already following the show, I encourage
you to hit that follow button.
What are you doing?
Go deeper, deeper, all right,then leave us a review, a
glorious five-star review.
It really helps us grow.
Join us next week when theconversation takes an ominous
(01:03:42):
turn as we recount two storiesfrom our co-host facing death
then getting a second chance atlife.
Thank you so much for tuning inand have a great week.
Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
That was funny, that was good, that was good.
That was more like his brotherMorris.
Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
Morris Frieden.
That was Morris Frieden, thatwas Morris, that was Morris
breathing.
Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
That was Morris, that was Morris you.
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