July 14, 2025 • 56 mins
Vulnerability isn't something we often associate with fathers and sons, but in this raw, emotional episode, two dads and their 20-year-old sons break down those barriers completely. What happens when fathers ask their sons to grade their parenting performance, with nothing held back?
Jean-Jacques (JJ) and Stéphane (our host), who are cousins of the same age, both have sons born in April 2005 – Christian "Kiki" and Julien. Despite their parallel journeys, their paths diverged through divorce and different parenting arrangements. This conversation reveals the profound impact these circumstances had on their father-son relationships.
The young men don't hold back. They discuss what they wish had been different – from the desire for more emotional connection to wishing their fathers had pushed them harder in sports. Particularly moving is Julien's revelation about growing up primarily without his father after divorce, and how this created both appreciation for the time they did have and regret for what was missed. Kiki opens up about the communication difficulties that led him to feel isolated despite living with both parents.
What makes this conversation extraordinary isn't just the honesty, but the grace with which these young men view their fathers' imperfections. They acknowledge that their dads were navigating parenthood without a roadmap, often trying to break cycles from their own Haitian upbringing while figuring out the delicate balance between pushing their sons toward excellence and nurturing their emotional well-being.
The conversation culminates with both sons expressing how they envision their relationships evolving as they move deeper into adulthood – with hopes for friendship, mentorship, and continued growth together. Their insights offer a powerful template for how father-son relationships can mature and heal with honest communication.
Ready to examine your own parenting journey or understand your relationship with your father in a new light? This episode will inspire you to have the difficult, necessary conversations that lead to deeper connection and healing. Subscribe now and join us on this journey of authentic manhood.
Thank you for supporting us by following the show, leaving a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, and sharing with your family. We'll catch you next week when we share conversations surrounding real issues we deal with every day. Manhood Matters.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I won't say he wasn't emotional, but he wasn't kind
of receptive to having thoseemotional conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Because I didn't have those with my dad.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, that's a learned skill.
Now I understand, obviously,hopefully, as all people do, you
grow and you start tounderstand these things.
But as a kid it was like well,shit, I got all these people in
the house, yet it feels like Ican't speak to none of them,
can't talk to my mom, them can'ttalk to my mom, can't talk to
(00:27):
him.
My outlet was just myself.
So one thing I do want toreject is, I guess, just that
mindset that he had just kind ofneglecting.
He was just kind of looking,thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Guys, if you're a parent, I'm throwing down the
gauntlet because this is a hellof a challenge.
There is this old saying neverask a question unless you're
ready for the answer, no matterhow harsh.
Now there is no playbook forparenting and we're all trying
to figure it out.
We're also just trying tofigure out the least amount of
(00:58):
ways to cause damage to anotherhuman being.
If I had to compare it to asport, honestly I don't play it,
but it would be baseball, wherethe goal is to fail 70% of the
time.
So my cousin, jean-jacques,better known as John John, has a
son named Christian, born inApril of 2005.
(01:20):
I have a son named Julian, alsoborn in April 2005.
My cousin and I are exactly thesame age, so there are a lot of
parallels.
It was his idea to sit with ourboys and have a real, honest
conversation.
We wanted to know, as fathers,what we did right, what we could
(01:41):
have done better, while we didflat out wrong, in fact be
graded on our performance asdads.
For me it was a littleheartbreaking to hear the time
missed with my son that I cannever get back.
The honesty from these boys attimes cut a little deep.
But again, why ask if you don'treally want to know?
(02:02):
I can't begin to tell you howproud we are of these young men,
for who they are and whatthey're becoming.
Initially, john John and Ithought we were being brave for
opening this door and possiblybe faced with our own
inadequacies and failures, butit turns out it was the boys
(02:22):
that had to show even morecourage by being vulnerable,
truthful and showing an enormousamount of grace and maturity.
You will definitely enjoy thisconversation.
It's not for the weak.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
Thanks for doing this, guys.
I appreciate you, of course.
(02:59):
So we're sitting down with mycousin, john John.
Dude, we have so much in common.
We are the same age.
Your mom and my dad are brotherand sister.
Our kids have the same names.
Yeah, born on the same month,they're the same age.
So it's crazy how many thingsthat we have that are pretty
much parallels.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
All right.
Well, my real name isJean-Jacques Gregoire Jr, but
everybody calls me JJ.
I'm a coach, I was a teacherwhat else?
Exciting.
Father of Three boys.
Oldest one, his name is Noah,middle son, julien, and youngest
is Christian, but he goes byKiki, and that's what we have
(03:41):
with us here today my youngestyep.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
That leads us to your introduction.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I am Christian Gregoire.
I'm 20 years old.
I play soccer professionally.
That is the occupation I havechosen.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Love it, you ready for this conversation?
I am.
What's up, julian?
That leads me my almostyoungest, except I started over
again.
You were the youngest for thelongest.
How dare you?
I know my bad bro.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Took my title away.
Yeah, but yeah, I am JulianAlexandre, son of the host.
I am also 20.
Currently I work full time witha small side business in car
detailing.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And you guys are like two weeks apart, 17 days.
You're eighth, right?
Yes, sir, I'm 25th.
So 17 days apart.
17 days apart, same age.
So two fathers, two sons.
Yeah, man, jon, jon, yes, sir,I got a question for you.
Brother, what is one thing thatyou are proud of as a dad?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
How he's grown up to be a man.
He's more mature than I was.
I was more of a happy-go-luckykid very naive, into friends,
talented, but life lucky kidvery naive, into friends,
talented.
But life was just one big happyparty for me.
Yeah, I had a really goodupbringing nice, comfortable,
(04:54):
wasn't too hard, thoughteverybody was nice.
I didn't really understand life, yeah.
But as I got older I started torealize that that was very
delusional on my side and he hasnot followed my path.
Where do you think that comesfrom?
I want to say that really comesfrom me being with his mother.
(05:16):
Sometimes I might say somethings like spirits, but I feel
like she came into our life tomake him who he is.
So I give a lot of credit tohis mom because she woke me up
too.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So, really, the thing that you're most proud of is
who he is as a man.
How do you respond to that?
How do you receive that?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Over the years I have honestly given them a lot of
shit for I guess the backhand oftrauma that you receive, that
all kids receive.
I've gotten to the point whereI realize everybody has their
own fair share.
But I would say in response tothat I have to give a lot of
grace to both of them for justthe people that they are,
because obviously I didn'tbecome who I am on my own.
You know you're nurtured byyour parents, if you're lucky
(05:57):
enough to have parents, so fromwhat they've given me, I
wouldn't be who I am now withouteither of them.
Me I wouldn't be who I am nowwithout either of them.
You know they're both kind of ayin and yang.
Yeah, you know they.
They both are opposites in alots of ways, but that they both
complement each other and thatI feel like kind of was a
perfect blend for me yeah, so hegot to see the yin and yang
(06:19):
version of us and now he'sgetting to see a different
version of the yin and yang, thebalance.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I'm more unified yeah , yeah, because, uh, yeah, I
agree, we don't yin and yangthat much anymore.
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, it's like we can't really get upset.
I'm softer to her reactions.
When she gets to a point whereshe gets fired up the scorpio in
her it cools quickly by myresponse.
He gets to see it too, andwe're different now.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
That's awesome, yeah.
So for me, I can't take creditfor it.
I think he's the best humanthat I know in general.
I don't know someone with abigger heart.
I don't know someone who's moreselfless.
I don't know someone who's justmore willing to do for others
and overall a good person.
I cannot take any credit for it.
I've grown to become that, orI'm still striving to become
that, but that's not I don'tknow what it is.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
honestly, I don't know why it gives me that drive
to want to help people.
You know, as a kid my all-timegoal was to become a doctor.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Now I'm like that's too much school.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
I don't want to be a doctor, but I wanted to help
people.
It's always been like theydon't want to be a therapist,
they don't make that much money,but still I always try to help
out my friends.
I try to help out my parents,try to help out my siblings,
anyone that I can.
And even though at a young agemy dad wasn't like that, him
growing to be that personinspired me.
Never said it outwardly to him,but all of his kids see who
(07:41):
he's turning into, how he'sgrowing as a person, because we
all grow.
It never stops.
But yeah, him growing inspiresme currently.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And you still think he's growing now, of course, and
what changes do you see?
Speaker 5 (07:53):
I think he's more calm.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
I think that's the main thing that we all see.
I think your temper is stillthere, but I think it's longer
than it was before.
It takes a lot more to get methere.
Right, I'd say you're morecompassionate.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
I think that's what really inspires me.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I have another question.
We're going to start with you,Kiki, and then Julian.
You can answer the question.
Yes, sir, when do you thinkyour dad's strength lies?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I would like to use a more sophisticated word than
just control but his ability tomaintain his peace, his energy,
is a very important quality thatI've realized not a lot of
people have.
It allows him to make gooddecisions for himself, maintain
his quality of person.
It allows him to at least staytrue to his character, and I
think that's helped himthroughout life.
(08:41):
And you know, just allow goodenergy and good blessings to
come his way.
Well, there are a lot of peoplewho have, I would say, done
this man wrong, but I can'tthink of any people that have
done damage too much damage.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
That's a very profound statement.
It's awesome.
Same question, Julian.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Definitely your drive , no matter what, if my dad
wants to do something, he'sgoing to do it.
He's going to get there, nomatter what's in his way.
You definitely see that youknow in sales, if he has a goal,
if he wants to do something,there is nothing stopping him
from getting to that point.
I think that's his biggeststrength.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Has that inspired?
You personally?
Do you feel like you can dothat as well?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I'm always learning from it, but I'm a huge
procrastinator, so it looks likeI'm not getting anything from
that, but I see it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I feel like that's just kind of a common quality in
our generation.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So let me ask you a question with your
procrastination so I don't usethat word.
What word do you use?
I don't really have a word forit.
Okay, because if I havesomething that needs to be done,
I do wait for the last minuteto get it done, and I guess
that's procrastination, right,but I know that I'm going to get
it done.
It always gets done well.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
So you operate better under pressure.
Yes, with a tight deadline,with a very tight deadline.
Yeah, sometimes talent worksagainst us.
Yes, knowing that we arecapable of doing that Is that
how it is for you, 100%.
I think I work very well underpressure in that is is that how
it is for you 100 okay, I thinkI work very well under pressure,
so I definitely wait till lastminute for a lot of things.
Okay, I want to ask a tougherquestion.
Hit me what do you wish wecould have done differently,
(10:12):
better, as fathers?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I have one.
Go ahead, kiki.
This is one that, like I'vejust been thinking about, or I,
I've kind of accepted it becausenow it's it's become my own
thing.
But there was a certain pointthat I wish you, instead of
taking your foot off the gas,pushed a little bit harder with
football and just everybody'sclear we're talking about
international football here,meaning soccer yes, sorry, yeah
(10:35):
sorry, I hate to call it thattoo.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Trust me, but like our audience not gonna know what
the hell you're talking about,you're right, you're right, it's
important to clarify.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But yeah, we had actually just talked about this
recently.
You were, you were telling mehow hard your dad was on you
with football and you realizedat a very early age that you
were starting to do that alittle bit with me.
I don't remember.
You said like 7, 8, 9, aroundthat age, yep, and you said you
had stepped off, which Iobviously as a kid definitely
appreciated because I wasdefinitely a lot softer as a kid
(11:03):
, more emotional, and that washard for me at the time.
When I got a little bit oldernow, looking at it, from that 11
to 13, 14 years old age, I hadwished we had spent a little bit
more time and you had pushed alittle bit harder.
Pushed you harder, yeah, totrain, because at that time
period it was kind of like thesimilar thing.
It was just the talent, youknow, passing by.
I wasn't really training toohard.
(11:24):
If he wasn't going to train me,I wasn't going to train, I was
just playing, just to play.
It was something that I wasgood at and I realized at that
point I wasn't really in lovewith the game to a point where I
had thought about becoming aprofessional footballer, you
know, making that my career.
It was more so I thought thatwas just something that I
(11:50):
enjoyed doing.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It was just fun.
I was good at it.
It's always fun.
It was like a game.
It wasn't until 15, 16, Istarted to realize I kind of
like this, I like this shit youknow I actually love this game.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
There's a path here.
Yeah, this matters to me, andthat's when I started to push
myself.
That's when I went on my ownself learning journey.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Pushing yourself is already a great thing that
that's not.
You don't see that a lot in ourgeneration.
No, you want to push yourselfto do that, but do you think
you'd be in a different spot hadhe stepped on the gas right now
?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
that is a good question, you know, I also, I
ponder that as well.
I don't know, I don't know if,if he, if he, had pushed harder,
would I had, you know, fallenout of love with the game,
thinking that it was more forhim than it was for me, because
there was a point where I, youknow, that thought had crossed
my mind, right, but I don't know.
All you can really do is, youknow, imagine the possibilities.
And for me now, just wonderingwhat I could have been, maybe I
(12:35):
could be a little bit better.
Now, right, you know, justthinking, maybe my right foot
could be a little bit better orI'd be more confident in my
shooting.
My shooting would would just beperfect.
These are just imaginarysituations.
You know hypotheticals you knowwhat's crazy.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Oh my God, if I could bottle what you just said and
take it back to everyeight-year-old, because you
can't push it on the kids Somecan.
All of the greats have alwaysbeen pushed to the point where
it was almost unreasonable,almost like abuse.
Tiger Woods' dad not abusive,but you're going to practice
until your knuckles bleed.
You don't have a choice, You'rebeaten into them.
(13:09):
Yeah, you know, you're wakingup at a certain time.
Michael Jordan's dad like allthese people who become the
greatest, they have this story.
Look at the Williams sisters.
What was his name?
It was a King Richard.
He wasn't playing.
This is what's happening.
You're going to practice rightnow.
You're doing this and this iswhat you're going to become.
You will become the greatestright, or there's a shot at it.
So Julian and I have a slightlydifferent story.
(13:31):
You've been with your dad yourwhole life.
His mom and I divorced when hewas about three years old, so
then he'd spend the summer withme and that was in a whole
different state.
So he spent the summer with me.
I'd see him all the time, but Iwasn't around as much, and this
is kind of fucked up.
But I want to fix everythingwhen I have him for two months.
So he wasn't playing soccer andI asked him one time he's eight
(13:51):
years old.
I remember this exactly.
He was eight years old and I'mgoing what do you want to be?
He's a professional soccerplayer.
I said, well, shit, you'regoing to play against.
They've been practicing sincethey were three.
You're eight, you haven'ttouched the ball, so let's go.
So I have him in the garage andI'm pushing him and he's not,
you know, hitting the ballagainst coming back to him and
he's not trapping it.
And I keep pushing and pushingand then he starts crying and I
(14:15):
felt like absolute piece of shit.
I felt bad.
His sister came out because sheheard me.
I'm talking to him like a coach, the way I imagine any coach
would be, yelling at theirstudents.
At least I thought so.
But she comes out, she looks atme, she goes really Like you're
(14:40):
not going to ease off, Right,and I was like I guess I am.
Then I look at Julian andJulian's in tears.
I'm like I'm so sorry, I was on10, bring this shit down to
five, but you don't give up.
You know, in my mind I was likeI don't want to live
vicariously through you becauseI missed my shot, so all parents
overall have it.
How much do you push to wherethey don't become resentful?
You know, I don't want you tofeel like this is not for me,
(15:02):
it's for you dad and stuff likethat.
And I don't know if youremember that incident.
I don't.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Thank God.
But that would have been andthat is my answer to your
question pushing me harder towhere there is no giving up,
pretty much Because you tried toget me into golf and I was into
golf for a little bit, I wastaking lessons.
I could totally see that, youcan see me as a golfer.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I could totally see that you should see his swing.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
I'm so jealous because he naturally has an
amazing ability, but I didn'twant to do it to where I was
playing as a sport.
I just wanted to do it for fun.
But when I realized that it was, I'm taking it seriously.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I was like him, like did you take a hundred swings
today?
Because every golfer you got togo out take a hundred swings
every single day.
I got him this weighted club,so you just go in the yard swing
it a hundred times, and he'd behonest.
He'd just like, okay, do ittomorrow, son, do it tomorrow.
And then one day he calls me,he goes dad, I don't want to
(16:05):
play golf.
I was like all right.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
That was one of the most disappointing phone calls
I've ever had with him.
I never liked to know that Idisappointed somebody.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Even to this day.
I don't know if that's an issueor if that's something that I
need to work on, but I hatepeople being disappointed in me
because I feel like I could havedone better.
I will tell you right now fuckthat.
No, that's a weakness.
No, you want to do what's rightby people.
Forget being your dad.
I will tell anyone this you dowhat's best for you a hundred
percent of the time.
Don't worry about people beingdisappointed.
Now, if someone's giving youadvice and they're pouring into
you, you have a mentor,someone's trying to push you and
get you somewhere.
Yes, sure, try not todisappoint that person, but
don't think about overall notdisappointing people, because
that will hurt you more thananything else.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yep, they will take advantage?
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Just to answer to that question, just the heart of
push.
There is no giving up, becauseI do think well.
I mean, like Kiki said, youdon't know where you're going to
be had this been different.
But I do think I would havebeen in a better spot had I been
pushed for either soccer orgolf.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So if the choice is push your son and the risk is,
yeah, but he might resent thegame.
Hate me, be mad at me, but he'sgoing to be great.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, I mean because when the kid gets older and that
talent is refined, it's up tothem if they want to use it.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Exactly.
At least you help them build itand prepare them Build
character.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I mean exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
At least you help them build it and prepare them
build character.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I mean pushing sons anything.
Man, a pianist, a great pianist.
They practice eight hours a daylike these kids.
Don't just become what they arebecause they just like mess
around with it I got theblueprint now.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean, if I had another one, the next one
would be great as parents,that's all we want.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And someone said parenting is about finding the
the least amount of way to fuckup another person.
This person is going to bemessed up, but you're trying to
find do the least amount ofdamage to that person.
And like you said earlier, Kiki, there's so much trauma.
Everyone grows up with trauma.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
You know, we grew up with Haitian parents.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, that was fun, yeah, you know how that is.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So with Kiki, which was different, I got him when he
was young.
There was a time that me andhis mom weren't together, okay.
So I kind of had to be the dadand the mom.
So I had this real sensitiveside.
Then I had the dad side, butthe dad side was from what I
knew from my dad, yeah, whichwas not too much talking, very
(18:21):
cold, yeah, this way no otherway.
And I was battling with thesensitive side because he needed
that nurturing.
Yeah, right, and it wasn't toolong.
When it came to me working withhim with football, the hardness
was there.
And I remember when I too hardon him, one time I was like I
don't want to be like my dadwith him, because I want him to
(18:42):
continue, yeah, play the game.
I remember it, I was in the carand I was like I gotta stop.
So when we had conversationswith his mom, she was like you
know, you gotta keep workingwith him.
And I'm like, well, I don'tknow if I want to do that,
because that hardness and thatsoftness already merged together
.
So if he didn't want to train,I wasn't going to train, I
wasn't going to push it, becauseif I pushed it I knew where it
(19:05):
was going to go.
At least you thought it wasgoing to go to where he was.
It was going to.
I remember one practice we had.
It was bad in the garage.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
You know it was going to go somewhere.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
And he's old at that point.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
How old are you when that's happening?
I don, yeah, so I just rememberthat.
Are you talking about the onewhere I was hitting the ball a
little hard?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Oh my God, yeah, so we were passing the ball and he
wasn't doing something right andhe was getting upset, I would
pass him the ball and he woulddo it.
Then he kept sending the ballback to me with a little more
pepper.
So I said this little guy istrying to challenge me.
So he played one.
I said I didn't say anything tohim.
(19:45):
So he played it.
Really, he played back to me.
I hit him with a one-touch shot.
Boom, the thing hit the wallbehind him.
He was so shocked.
I was shocked.
I did it.
So I said, okay, that's enough,because I had to calm down,
because that ball would havegone through him.
Yeah, if it hit him, it wasgoing to destroy him.
(20:09):
So I was like, okay, I got tostop this.
And then I was like, okay, no,I can't, I cannot do this.
I got to.
How old is he?
Then?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Like 10?
, no younger.
Yeah, oh wow, oh my God.
Yeah, you're going to kill thiskid.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
So there's a kid that I train now.
That has what I wish I couldhave done with Kiki that I'm
doing with this kid now.
He's with me all the time.
He trains all the time.
Yeah, and if I had to trainKiki like the way I'm training
this kid, he would be furtherthan he is now.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And that's the thing, right.
I'm afraid to lose my son.
Is it worth it that I keeppushing on this Because maybe
he's going to be an accountant,maybe he's going to be a doctor?
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Has it ever crossed your mind before?
I don't know if you could domath, but you just I'm pretty
bad at it.
Fuck up my taxes.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
But I mean, dude, I don't know, because I've always
told you it's like there reallyis nothing you can't accomplish.
Especially, anyone who takesthemselves serious today will
dominate this generation.
But yeah, it did cross my mindin terms of whether or not I
would lose you.
I don't want to lose you togolf again.
Keep in mind, I'm away from you, right, right, I have you for
two months.
(21:12):
There was a time where I drovesix hours, whatever it was, to
come get you, and I got realclose and you were like, hey, I
don't want to go.
You called me to tell you Idon't want to go.
I just drove six hours to comeget my son, and he's six years
old, on the phone telling me,dad, is it okay if I don't come
with you?
My response was like, all right, bye, cause I was hurt.
Now, that was not your doing,just to be clear.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
I obviously don't remember that.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Trust me it wasn't your doing, so I'll just leave
it at that.
My point is if all I have withyou is one and a half, two weeks
at christmas, the last thing Iwant to do is force something on
you, right?
Because then you really don'twant to come.
It's like someone I get there.
I'm just gonna make me workhard.
All I want to play video gamesand chill and sit and eat my
cereal, and if you have it inmind that when you show up I'm
(21:59):
having you do drills at 6 amyou're not looking forward to
that?
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Right so.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I think, like our situations, we have so many
parallels, but you and I, jon,jon, this is where there's a
huge difference, because Ididn't have Julian with me, you
had Kiki with you and I had toalways balance that and navigate
that, because I'm always afraidof that phone call coming hey
Dad, I don't want to spend thesummer with you, I'd be messed
up.
I'm like damn.
So I got to be like no, whenyou come here, you're not going
to do anything but eat cereal.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's going to be great.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, you're going to watch Looney Tunes I got to
give the flowers to Moniqueagain.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, because at a very young age she was like boys
need to be with their fathers.
Wow, yeah, man, she got a bigbouquet of flowers.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Oh, man, I want to stop the show and go and give
her some flowers right now.
Because it's true, bro, it'strue, it's not just hand your
son over to some dude who's abum, who's a loser.
A there has to be the desirefrom the dad.
The dad has to be like I wantmy son and I'd love to have him.
Secondly, she has to understandthat a woman cannot raise a man
Now.
(23:05):
They'll do their very best, butwhen you have someone like
Monique, who would figure thisout early and have that level of
maturity to say this is what'sbest for him I mean, do you know
mothers and their sons?
But do you love him for you ordo you love him for him?
Because if you love him for him, you do what's best for him-
you know I give credit to my mom.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
She did do the best that she can.
She still does do the best thatshe can.
But I do also wish that when Iwas younger there was a chance
for me to go live with my dadand my mom bottom line just said
, no, you're not going.
But I do wish that sheunderstood that the dad needs to
raise his son.
I think I would have grown as aperson a lot had I had that
opportunity it was about tohappen.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
but then I was like, well, let's sign these papers,
almost like she would lose herrights, and that's what spooked
her.
And she was just like nah, thisain't happening.
And you know she deaded thewhole thing.
The only thing that should havemattered is you're coming with
me.
Hindsight is 2020, bro.
Question for you guys.
Again, this is mostly about youtwo.
Tell me about a very specificmoment that you believe altered.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
I'm going to tell you why I'm drawing a blank.
Going back to the previousquestion, I didn't see him a lot
so I didn't have a lot ofmoments to where it could have
really altered.
There were, I'm sure, timeswhere I should have had like a
core memory, but just the twomonths out of the year is hard
to pinpoint.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, you already know that I can't really
remember much from before I waslike eight years old.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I was waiting for Julian to finish, because
there's something that blockshim from remembering Really.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yes, Anything from prior, from before eight years
old, so I'm going to explain itto you like this there's bits
and pieces that I can rememberfrom before, that it kind of
seems like a slideshow in myhead, certain pictures that I
can remember from a certainmemory, but to me it feels like
my life started at Concord,which is how old I was, about
(24:53):
seven years old.
I remember the Georgia Expressera, just that.
I was there, but I can'tremember anything about it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Which is what I think that might be when your mom
came.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
There's a picture we have upstairs where you're
holding me and I'm holding thetoy gun.
I don't remember anything aboutthat except, like I said, a
picture in my head that it'slike a hallway.
I mean the only thing that Ican really say at around 11
years old he had an opportunityto take me again like as a
player, but he didn't.
It was the first time ever,actually, that I was not with
(25:27):
him, right that was the firsttime, yeah yeah, first time he
wasn't my coach.
So at 11 years old I got sent tothis program DA.
Right, that was the first timePlaying.
Yeah, yeah, first time hewasn't my coach.
So at 11 years old I got sentto this program DA, which at the
time was the big hotshot leaguefor the academy kids.
You know that was the bestthing to be in.
He was in between jobs and hewas switching to a new club, so
he didn't have my age group.
But then he got my age groupand instantly, yo get me out of
(25:48):
here.
I'm ready, let me come playwith you.
Your team looks fire, let mecome play with them.
And he was like nah, man, justfinish out the year, just finish
out the year.
Why was that why?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
did you want him to stay with the other coach
instead of coming to you?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, the reason why I didn't pull him out was
because DA was the leagueDevelopment Academy League, was
the league development academyleague.
He was younger than everybodyplaying up, so for me I was like
, okay, he's gonna be playingwith good competition, right,
he's supposed to get better.
But it didn't happen.
It did not happen because hewas playing with bigger kids no
(26:24):
well, no not necessarily biggerkids.
They were supposed to be thethe top kids of an age group
above him okay so it's just likeAtlanta United.
So the best players go to thesedevelopment academy clubs, right
.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So they were all just like top quality players and a
year older than me, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I was like, okay, he's going to benefit out of
that.
But I also had an 05 team.
That was really good.
But I was like I don't want topull him down to that.
I don't know if he did you tellme directly that this was what
you wanted to do.
I said I want to leave.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I said get me out.
We had a conversation about it.
I was like yo like cause I wasreally cool with a lot of the
players on the team at the time.
You know Cole and Nico.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You were cool with his players, so you were like
get me out of here, I want toplay with you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, I was like man, I want to train with you, like
I want to play with your players.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
This is the perfect ideal situation and that's funny
because I don't remember thisconversation and you know the
reason why I think I might havejust blocked him out like
because I don't want to hit himyou're not going to do it, but
it's to fact, because if he didplay for that team, the team
would have been ridiculous.
It would have changed the game.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
The team was phenomenal man.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
I know that I've gotten this advice and I've
given it.
Talk to your kids, listen tothem, especially if they're
articulating exactly what theywant.
Was there a moment like thatfor you, where you were just
like specific about somethingthat you wanted?
Not really, no, I was kind ofafraid to speak your mind too,
100%.
This was terrifying to me forno reason bro, Growing up I was.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
I have no idea why I was scared of my dad, but my mom
was always a disciplinarian.
I don't get whippings as a kid,but I was scared From your mom,
From my mom.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, I didn't touch her.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
I was your protector too.
Yeah, I was your protector too.
It was like frequent growing up.
My last one was when I was 13.
I mean, it was the day beforemy birthday.
Again, none to do with me, so goahead Explain Getting
disciplined by my mom, gave me afear that my dad would probably
do the same thing if I didsomething wrong.
So I was just scared to speak,because if I spoke out against
(28:29):
my mom she would just think, oh,he's talking back.
And then it would just leadmore like fueling wanting to get
worse?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Did you have a fear that he was going to do it worse
?
Speaker 5 (28:35):
I just had a fear that he would do it, period.
I didn't want to get hit byboth my parents.
I'm already getting hit by one.
Why don't I want a bell fromthe other one?
But that was just my kid brainthinking oh, if I do something
bad or if I speak out when Ithink I'm not supposed to, he's
going to hit me too.
And that was never the case.
He always wanted to talk andwanted to hear me out, but I
just never understood that as akid.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I remember this one incident, bro.
We're playing at a gym whereyou were coaching all these kids
.
We're playing futsal and I'mstanding next to you.
I'm standing next to Jon Jonand I went hey, julian, he was
running full speed, stopped onthe dime, dropped to the ground,
(29:15):
almost like waiting for thenext command.
And then John John looked at meand said what are you doing to
him?
And I was like nothing.
What do you mean?
I've done nothing.
I was like hey, man, son, justcome here.
What's wrong with you?
I don't know what that was andit kind of coached me to be even
softer.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I can't have him be afraid of me because I was
afraid of my dad.
It was my one of the first time, probably the only time I've
heard you yell towards me.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Calling you.
Yes, how are you across the gym?
I needed to get your attention.
I've always been close.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
How else could I have ?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
called you.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I say the same thing to the kids.
I said you're way over there.
I said there's no way I can sayhey, no, I have to yell yeah, I
have to project my voice.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Hey, julian, you're over there.
You're like literally like 40yards away from me inside the
gym where 30 other kids arerunning and making noise because
I was used to my mom.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
If my mom yelled my name I was in trouble.
So when I heard my dad sayJulian, I'm like oh shit wow.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I'm done for.
So you put all your fears fromyour mom onto your dad, that's
exactly how I was as a kid.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That's exactly the reason, so do you think the fact
that you grew up with prettymuch predominantly all women had
an impact on that?
There was only women in thehouse your sisters, both your
sisters.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
You didn't have brothers, you didn't have your
dad around and your sister'sseven years older than you were
and she's more like a mom.
That is true.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
He's going to go like a mom, that is true.
He's gonna go home and startrelaxing.
It's my time now I was justwondering like do you think
that's had at least some impact?
Speaker 5 (30:40):
I think so.
Where was the male role model?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
yeah, there's no one that lived eight hours away yeah
, or when you would come hangout with us, like right and I
would see things and I was likedamn, yeah, that's what it's
like, I guess.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Kiki, do you want to have a family one day?
Children, yes, julian, yes,okay.
So what will you take from yourdad's myself, john, john and
say, hey, I want to emulate thisas a father.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, I would just say I want to be for sure as
close with my kids as he waswith me.
Our relationship.
It's hard to consider itsometimes like a father-son
relationship, because growing upwe definitely just to me kind
of just felt like homies yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But we were real close and the pictures.
He doesn't remember, butthey're in the pictures.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
We were always together yeah, yeah, like, yeah,
I think that's.
That's one thing, because Iknow I want two boys, I want two
sons, and that's just becauseof a personal thing for me
feeling like an only child,because my two brothers are
basically damn near 10 yearsolder than me, yeah and, like I
said, I have no recollectionreally of when they were around.
Yeah, I just kind of rememberthem being dickheads to me.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
That was it that's how it works, by the way.
You just wish for two boys andyou get them, just just so you
know wow, okay, great, I'm sorryhe's gonna have a daughter,
that's fine no, I want three.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, she's come third, though, julia, you got
one he's like ain't shit, youdid no, no, you was a six to
eight hours away I ain't gotnone I ain't got none, but he
tried so you're gonna say I'mgonna try, I'm gonna try it's
(32:21):
okay son, it's all right no,because you, you, you put in a
lot of effort into all three ofus, especially into me.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
You didn't stop trying.
I don't want to stop trying.
I don't know if that's a goodanswer, but we're not looking
for a good answer, we're lookingfor your answer.
It almost piggybacks off orcompletely piggybacks off of
Kiki's answer to be close to mykid and to just keep making an
effort, I guess, to maintainthat relationship with them.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Love that.
Yeah, I think that's a goodanswer because, to be honest, in
your situation you didn't haveto try as hard as you did.
You really didn't.
I hear that a lot.
I hear that a lot.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
That's what I'm grateful for, because you hear
about it all the time that thedad was just never there but, he
was always there.
Even if he wasn't physicallythere, he was always there.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I'm definitely grateful for that swells my
heart a little bit to know thatyou recognize it, and I
appreciate it 100.
I have another question for youguys, which is the opposite of
what I just asked.
As fathers, what will youreject from what you've learned
from your dads?
Speaker 5 (33:23):
I actually do not have an answer for this question
.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, he's like yeah that's good.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Your turn, kiki, but I do.
I know he does, but I do.
I would say the only thing forme, the one critique I would
have is it sounds like you kindof explained it, that hard side
and soft side at one point kindof merged.
But for me as a kid, like thedynamic with you and my mom was
as we know, my mom was very hardon me, you know, very
(33:53):
expressive, very emotional.
So a lot of the times Icouldn't really go talk to her
about what was upsetting me orbothering me.
I had to shelter that away fromher and with him.
I won't say he wasn't emotional, but he wasn't kind of
receptive to having thoseemotional conversations.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Because I didn't have those with my dad.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, that's a learned skill.
Eventually we learn to breakfrom that.
But I don't want to cut you off, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
No no, no, now I understand.
Obviously, hopefully, as allpeople do, you grow and you
start to understand these things, but as a kid it was like a
little shit.
I got all these people in thehouse.
Yeah, it feels like I can'tspeak to none of them.
Can't talk to my mom, can'ttalk to him.
I don't even remember if mybrothers were in the picture at
this time, but definitelywouldn't have felt like I was
(34:36):
going to be able to talk to them.
So my outlet was just myself.
So one thing I do want toreject is, I guess, just that
mindset that he had of just kindof neglecting it was just kind
of looking past it, because forme he would have been the one
outlet, the person that I couldtalk to.
And I feel like as a father,there will be those moments
(34:56):
where you have to engage in thatconversation with your son and
kind of teach him the way.
Luckily enough for me, I feellike I kind of learned after a
certain point of how to handlethese things, but with his
guidance, or just a father'sguidance, I feel like it'll
definitely help a son throughouttheir path in life.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Yeah, I may not have an answer for this question, but
to the previous question ofwhat I would do with my kid, the
same your receptiveness.
I could sit down and talk to mymom, but she was way more
emotional and she would snap wayquicker.
So say one wrong thing and thenthe mood just shifts.
Just like that, but with my dad.
He always heard us out.
You always listened to what wehad to say, had a response and
(35:37):
we actually had a conversation.
I feel like I was an adult I'mfive years old talking to him,
so definitely want to have thatwith my future kid.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Hopefully this conversation is a little
eye-opening for you both.
We're all being vulnerable.
We're opening up about ourshortcomings, etc.
Are you hearing some of thedifficulties to actually parent
another human being and guidethem through this universe For
sure?
Is it making you in the leastbit apprehensive?
Or is it making you feel likeno, I'm excited, I can't wait to
(36:07):
take on the challenge.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I would say I'm a bit nervous to be a father, but I
wouldn't say I fear it.
I wouldn't say I look forwardto it either, because I don't
really want it to happen toosoon.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
No, it's not happening anytime soon?
I would hope not.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
My whole thing is son please.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Right before you tap it.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Whatever, man, just do not let this happen.
I'm telling you, I watch peoplewho are further along in life
and have accomplished things,even people who are married.
They go a long time, they focuson their career, they
accomplish certain things andthey get to the point where
they're financially super stablestable, because having a kid,
being a parent, as you'rehearing is already difficult
enough.
Imagine doing it like I did.
(36:50):
I'm fighting financially, I'mstruggling the entire time and
I'm raising children.
It should never do it that way.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
We weren't taught that anyway, Correct.
So there's a way to do it.
Did you have a mentor growingup?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Jon, jon, I did not.
Yeah, I talk about this all thetime.
I had people around me who areolder than me, who looked up to
me.
So, instead of me having topull from them, they're pulling
from me, and I'm watching theseguys who are older than me make
horrible mistakes and those weremy examples and I'm being
honest to them.
I'm still looking to them.
And all these guys, two orthree baby mamas yep, they got
(37:25):
kids.
You know, I'm just like, yeah,that's just the way it is.
When they are in relationships,they are not monogamous.
If a husband was had an affair,whatever, it's expected that
when the wife finds out, sheforgives him.
She just moves on.
If you go back to the earlierin the 60s, even 70s and 80s
it's just what it was would youagree?
no, no no, I'm saying yeah,totally, totally back back then.
Right, and I think now there'smore of a universal, worldly
(37:49):
conscious effort for men tonormalize being monogamous and
not brag about the fact thatthey have two, three, four
different women.
That's sad, but even as I cameup like in my generation, it was
a badge of honor.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Still is that way, um you'll see it a lot, even if,
like, they're not in arelationship just saying I got
hoes.
That's like the biggest thing.
We have multiple women lined up, you have a roster, some people
would say um I'm starting five,sometimes starting five, that's
a good
Speaker 1 (38:14):
one that's the slang right now.
People would refer to women astheir ball I'm glad you
clarified.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I would not know what someone's talking about exactly
.
Might Might be an unfairquestion, but I'll ask it anyway
.
How do you think yourrelationship with your dad ranks
when you compare it to yourdad's relationship with your
other siblings?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Okay, well, that's an easy one for me.
We're definitely closer.
I mean, we just spent more timetogether than he did with the
other ones.
It was just an unfortunatesituation to the point where he
wasn't able to be with them foras long as he was with me.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Yeah, what about you, julian?
What do you think that ranks?
Speaker 5 (38:48):
I think, it shifted throughout the years.
Now I think it's even you know.
When you ask your mom or dad,you're like who's your favorite?
And they're like I love you allequally.
That's what I always hear whenI know damn well as a favorite.
I think there is the exact sameamount of effort and attention
(39:08):
that goes into all of us evenly.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
What about you, john john?
What do you think like is ifyou had to put in your two cents
in this, unless you havesomething to say right now?
Speaker 2 (39:17):
well, I do.
I have a lot to say about by allmeans my brother about the
first two, but I thought weweren't going to bring them in.
That's why I didn't, you know,talk too much about them.
The situation was completelydifferent.
Yeah, the mom, that was a toughtime in my life, you know.
And, uh, she poisoned thoseboys against me and for the
longest time they were with her,I was pretty much 98 of the
(39:40):
time.
So she, they believed her, sure, and she just made me to be out
the villain and it was hard forme to reprogram them.
He's not my first, but he feelslike my first.
He actually had a relationship,yeah, like the other two, and
it's still to this point.
It's like they're grown men now.
How do we become what we shouldhave been long time ago?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I think there's a point when that happens, and the
reason I say that is becausewhen I wanted that with my dad,
no one poisoned me against mydad.
I just saw what I saw.
But there was always somethingin me as a grown man, I'm 30, 40
years old, longing for arelationship with my father, one
that I wish I had, because I'mwatching other grown men who are
30, 40, 50 years old having anamazing relationship with that.
(40:25):
That's the best friend.
You know.
They're talking about their dadlike that's my boy, you serious,
I'm at my dad's house, likehanging out.
Oh, he's at my house, he's.
He's cutting my grass, likethere's these connections, which
is lovely.
They're going to home peopletogether because you know he
just bought a house and dad overhere fixing stuff.
Like the connection was there.
If he needs a shoulder to cryon, he calls his dad.
Overall, as men, we all haveour level of brokenness and you
(40:46):
can't just put a bandaid onthese things.
Because it was too late for me,right?
Because when my father passedwe had not spoken in years.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Oh no, I'm always open to them, but I just going
to always see it as beingdifficult for them, right?
Because of the relationshipthat I have with Kiki, because
he's here, he's with me all thetime, he's on the pathway that
they wanted to be on.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
So it's a good segue to what Julian was just saying,
because if you had asked mebefore, a long time ago, if I
had a favorite child, I wouldhave said yes, maybe not to my
children.
It changed over time.
I have matured and alsorealized one thing I love my
kids equally, but I love themall differently.
I look for him to come to meand say hey, man, I'm dating
this girl, this is issues I'mhaving.
I look to see his kids and pourinto them what I should have
(41:29):
poured into him, all of thesedifferent things.
But then I look at my girls andmy relationship with each one
is totally different, but everyone of them there is a different
relationship, meaning thatthere's a way that I love you
and there's a way I'm going tolove them, and those are not the
same.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So, like Kiki and I have gone through stages as far
as who we are to each other, andI think right now is a really
good because I'm communicatingmore, which I didn't before,
because that used to be thething.
My dad doesn't talk.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I used to always be like guys.
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
What do you want to know?
What do you?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
mean I don't talk.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Did you ask me a question, did I not answer, and
so it didn't, it didn't.
I didn't understand what theywere saying, because mom would
say the same thing.
Then my mom would be like y'all, you don't, don't talk what
does that mean?
Like I'm.
I'm a quiet person.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
I'm always observing, yeah, and I'm taking things in
right, yeah, but now I speak mymind, I talk, I even start a
conversation yeah I feel likethey don't want me to talk now
because you have too much to sayyeah, yeah, it's been bottled
for years, bro, yeah, so here'swhat they don't realize.
You've known him for 20 years.
He's not that way with you guys.
(42:44):
He's that way period.
I'd come to you with someissues, but I tried not to
because I was like he doesn'tbring me his shit, like it's not
fair to him that I start to,because I've had a lot more
problems.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
I should say more problems, but when it was kind
of settled down for you, I wasgoing through it I'm a very good
listener, so if you bring it tome I'll listen, I'll give some
input, some feedback, but I'mnot gonna come and be like hey
there was something about youthat always came across as
stoicism.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Maybe that's why I wouldn't even come to you,
because I'd bring something toyou and give me.
He'd give me a super logical,simple answer.
I'm like, well, it's logical,that's not.
That's not what I need to hear,bro, that's not what you want
to do.
Yeah, so fuck it, I'm not goingto bring shit up.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I think, though, because of the way he was, it
kind of helped me toautomatically fix things on my
own.
You know, because, like I said,I couldn't go to him with
certain problems and basicallyask for his help or ask him to
fix it for me.
Just him being him, being theperson that he is, it just
obviously forced me to kind ofsit down and take everything in
(43:46):
and, you know, just, I guess,solve it all myself.
And now it's kind of become abad habit, because I don't
really ask anybody for anything.
I kind of just I'm going to gofigure this out on my own, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
And now I'm just going to go learn.
I'll be trying to call him andbe like hey, you know, I'm
willing to offer some advicehere, now, and this guy is like,
he's like, turned into me?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
yeah, and I'm good and then I'll tell him three
months later that you know, theworld burned down and everything
was going.
But I'm good now.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
I already fixed it, I already got it do you think
it's something that you can kindof work on, because you see
what it turns into, and you endup wasting a couple of decades
before you where you realize,nah, maybe that's not the way I
need to be.
Yeah, allow people to be therefor you, especially someone who
loves you more than anybody elsein the world loves you.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah, I know, there are definitely certain times
where I can let them in.
I just choose not to.
I just choose to kind of do mylone wolf path.
I guess it's kind of like anachievement thing.
It's like kind of grinding outa video game and just beating
the entire story mode byyourself and being like, yeah, I
did that right that was methose two are probably my
greatest mentors.
Mom and dad.
Yeah, just just by by watchingthem, because, like I said, you
(44:48):
know, I didn't really talk tohim I kind of grew up in his
observer.
So I kind of just watched them,learned and kind of soaked in
and I guess I kind of created ablend of them, their own yin and
yang it's amazing how much likehim you are that you don't
realize.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
So, speaking of that, because I was a lot like my
father, I am a lot like myfather and I try to denounce it
as much as possible.
So let me ask you both aquestion what do you see in
yourself that you clearly seefrom your father?
My temper, okay yeah, you gottemper 100.
Speaker 5 (45:19):
Oh, I'm just like I've seen you mad, I'm just like
junjun'm just like I don't liketo talk.
I like to say to myself sothere was a point.
It wasn't too long ago, dadtried calling me twice or three
times.
I didn't answer, I just didn'twant to talk.
And at some point he texted me.
He was like are you okay?
Like what are you?
Did I do something?
And I was like no, he didn't doanything, I just don't want to
talk.
(45:39):
And we went to go get somethingto eat.
And then he just said I'm hereto listen, just talk.
And I think we sat there forlike a good hour.
Yeah, because I was at work, itwas on a lunch break.
For an hour I talked.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
This dude does have a temper.
How many controllers have youbeen through now?
Three, yeah, wow.
So I started to put yourbusiness out there.
Speaker 5 (45:57):
But I I have a little temper that I get from my dad
Because he used to tell mestories about how you had a
short temper.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
I think you still do.
No, it's controlled.
It's controlled now Totally.
People cut me off in traffic.
I'm just like, eh, whatever.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
That's his release.
You're blowing up, breaking thecontrollers 100%.
But the thing about it is he'sprobably like me, where he takes
a lot in.
There's going to be somethingthat is going to set it off.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
It can be something so small like a video game, yeah
, and it will blow up.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I don't know if I told you.
Well, I'm sure I told him, buthis mom knows that I'm afraid of
the angry person inside me.
He's just a very dangerousperson.
So I prefer to be fearful onthe outside, because I know
what's on the inside and it'scome up a couple of times, yeah,
in my life, and I had nocontrol of it, damn, and I was
(46:51):
really afraid of it.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I'm not myself yeah, we've talked about that before,
yeah mine was just pure rage,yeah like the hulk.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
Yeah, dumb hulk not smart smart.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Green one, not the green one.
What's the fondest memory thatyou guys have?
Speaker 5 (47:07):
I have plenty.
I'm trying to narrow it down toa couple.
I forgot what part of Memphisit was when I used to visit you
in the one-story house,arlington, arlington, yeah, it
would be like the last day ofeach summer that I would spend
with him.
We would always get ice cream.
Listen to my favorite Haitiansong at the time.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Superstar, that's funny.
I was like what's your favoriteHaitian song?
Okay, superstar, I got you.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
It was it was the same every summer, I don't know,
for some reason.
That's always like one of myfavorite memories I had with him
, just having that car ride tothe ice cream shop coming back
and I'd be like, let's listen tosuperstar.
He'd put it on and we'd justsing it on the way back to the
house.
I really love that memory coolkiki you got one.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I kind of want to put it more in broad terms.
It's not really a specificmemory per se it's kind of just
like the idea back in the day,like the futsal days.
I would say that's probablylike my fondest memories, where
and we were just in the gym andhe would host futsal like it
wasn't on tuesdays back at the,the warehouse, the little
warehouse, yeah, yeah, I wouldsay probably around that time
(48:06):
because that was when, you know,like we would just go in there
and we would just play, therewas training.
At that younger age I dreadedthat part, but yeah, at the end
of it, when it was time to play,that was always my happy time,
that was my joyful space andthat was always something that
we shared together because hewas running the sessions and I
was always a part of it yeah butto me at that time I felt like
(48:26):
the star of the show, because Iwas just in there, I was doing
my thing, like as a kid, I feltlike I was just cooking,
everybody just having fun.
Yeah, big old smile on my face,just having a good time, nice,
and that was just, you know,just a very joyful memory that
he was always a part ofsomething that we always shared
and it lasted for a pretty goodtime fantastic.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Last question how do you see your relationship with
your dad going forward, how doyou see it developing and how
would you like it to be?
I see us growing more as bestfriends.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
We're hanging out more.
We're going to the gym together, we're doing stuff now together
.
It's hanging out a lot more,especially now, now that you're
closer.
It's a 30-minute drive to yourhouse and, honestly, just keep
it that way, and that'ssomething that I would work on
as well just reaching out more,not just father and son, but
like best friends.
You'll be the first person Icall if I'm thinking about
(49:16):
something, if I'm going to dosomething in my life in the
future, if I have kids, you'llbe there for the kids as well
you know, I love that, thank you.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
What about you, kiki?
Speaker 1 (49:24):
well, for us it's going to be a little bit
different now because what we'reused to is being together.
You know we've pretty muchspent all of my life together.
I mean actually within the lastsix years, as you all know,
like I've been in and out thehouse just going to Portugal,
brazil, doing whatever the hellit is I'm doing for soccer yeah
(49:45):
so we've already kind of hadthat separation, but now it's
going to be a little bitdifferent.
He has a new businessopportunity.
He's taking his businesselsewhere and now I'm a little
bit older, so my career itselfis also taking a turn.
So I'll be even farther.
You know, with my business younever really know where you're
going to end up or for how long.
So for us it's going to be, Iguess, a new challenge, just a
(50:09):
little bit harsher than whatwe've already been experiencing
the last few years.
So I guess for me it's going tobe a little more difficult
because, like we said, I'm notreally that good at talking.
I'm like him, but now I'm alittle bit worse than him.
Phone talking I'm like him, butnow I'm a little bit worse than
him.
Phone calls really hard for mebecause I just, for whatever
reason, don't like being on thephone.
It's nothing personal.
I'll just look at a phone calland be like no.
Speaker 5 (50:33):
I'm the same way, dude.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
I've given up.
I literally have given up.
I'll just text and be like I'mnot going to be mad, because
I've learned from my dad andboth my mom If I go a few days
without calling them, I dreadcalling because I know it's been
three, four days.
And when I call oh, now youknow you have a father, now you
know you have a mother.
I'm like, oh my God, that's whyI wasn't so.
(51:02):
One week will turn into twomonths.
Now it's a real problem.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
You know what I mean.
I think for me that's justgoing to be something that I
have to work on, especially withthe time difference and how far
it's going to be.
It's going to be important forme to work on that so we can
actually keep in touch.
But one thing that is going tobe important for me in our
relationship is I'm still goingto be looking for his, his
guidance, in our sport, becausehe's always been my teacher,
from day one.
So it's definitely easier forme to trust his guidance and his
(51:28):
word in my profession and whatI do than to trust somebody
else's.
I'm always going to be lookingfor his opinion.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
That's beautiful man.
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but it sounds to me
like it's more than just thesport.
He's a pro, he's been coachingfor a long time, but it sounds
like you're looking for guidanceoverall in life.
Well, correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Oh yeah, for sure, because what football has become
, it's definitely a big piece ofmy life.
It's part of who I am and hehas nurtured that both who I am
and the part of the game in me.
So JonJon.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Any final words, brother?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah in me.
So, jonjon, any final words,brother, yeah, I would say, for
moving forward with our boys.
I think this is a good time forthem, a different time in our
life.
I think it's important thatthey do stay in touch because
you and I, older, we'rerealizing time.
Time is very important.
Time doesn't stop.
I don't know how much timewe're going to have.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, so I'm trying to spend as much time as I can,
give as much information as Ican, trying to set everything up
as quickly as I can.
Yeah, you know, yeah, so thatfor me it's just that's the most
important thing just tounderstand time.
If you understand time, thenthat might help you with maybe
being in wanting to be in touchwith us.
(52:44):
It doesn't have to be everybodyjust, but with us.
It's not that I'm asking you tostay on the phone with me
because you know, I don't.
I'm not just going to sit thereand talk, right, right, there's
a reason why I'm calling.
And then some, a lot of timeshis mom is like, did you get in
touch with him?
And I was like no, or likeshe'll say I sent him a text,
did he text you?
I said, yeah, he texted me.
(53:05):
Why he text you?
He text me.
And I'm like I don't know, justgive him some space, man, when
he's ready to talk, he'll talkto you, you know.
So there's like the balancethat I have with mom.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
There's one thing I wanted to say is you know the
unstoppable force and movmovable object?
Yeah, that's me and monique,that was an interesting dynamic.
Watching growing up to see thatthat was something that like,
that's a challenge in itselfthat I had to process growing up
because I had to do it bymyself.
There was no sibling that wasthere watching that experience
with me and obviously they arethemselves.
I can't tell them how theybeing crazy or how they're
acting.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
You know, I just had to watch it, so he gets to see
all that and then you know, heknows.
Hopefully that's not how itworks, but I have a long staying
power, like I can stay in thesituation for a very long time,
good or bad don't matter.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
And now you guys have an amazing.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah, it's a really good, really good relationship
yeah.
Like when she leaves.
I don't tell her this, though,but when she like leaves, I'm
like man, I don't want her to go, but she'd be ready to go.
But she complains the wholetime that she's like I want to
come back home, but he gets tosee this.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Yeah yeah.
They are not the traditionalparenthood and relationship you
see on TV.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
That's not real yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Everything you see on TV, or just all the other
parents I would see in real life.
I'd be like what these two arespecial for sure.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
None of it is real, bro.
None of it is real.
I think that's been part of myweakness too.
Growing up is I believed TV toomuch.
I was raised by those threechannels I had growing up.
Speaker 5 (54:38):
So I believed all that bullshit.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
It was true to me.
I was like, yeah, this is it.
All right, guys.
So we've reached the point inthe conversation.
Unless you guys have anythingelse to add, I'm going to hand
you, whichever one of you loses,the coin toss.
Unless someone wants tovolunteer and do it, I'm leaving
it up to fate, all right, sowe're going to flip a coin.
You don't want to do it becauseyou're just being told to do it
(55:01):
.
Speaker 5 (55:01):
No no.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Is this people pleasing?
Speaker 5 (55:03):
we were talking about I was kind of looking forward
to this moment.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
He does do a killer.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
SpongeBob.
Excuse me, Sounds like he'sabout to be SpongeBob bro, I
don't when.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
What are you doing?
No, I'm just kidding.
He was a big SpongeBob boy whenwe were younger, so that's
still my show man.
I'm just.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
SpongeBob like that.
Speaker 5 (55:23):
I can try my best to do a Stitch impression, you know
, like Lilo and Stitch.
All right, go for it.
Man.
Jesus Christ, now it's pressure, fuck.
Okay, quiet, is that nice?
Speaker 4 (55:40):
Please support us by following the show, leave us a
five-star review on ApplePodcasts and share with your
family, because Ohana meansfamily.
Thank you so much for listeningand we will catch you what's
that word?
Next week when we shareconversations surrounding real
issues we deal with every dayManhood Matters.
(56:01):
We're out.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
That was pretty good.
Wait, wait I was like okay.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
That was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
I didn't expect it to come out like that.
Really, I don't even know whatthose things are.
That's probably what thosethings are, thank you.
I won't say he wasn't emotional, but he wasn't kind
of receptive to having thoseemotional conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Because I didn't have those with my dad.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, that's a learned skill.
Now I understand, obviously,hopefully, as all people do, you
grow and you start tounderstand these things.
But as a kid it was like well,shit, I got all these people in
the house, yet it feels like Ican't speak to none of them,
can't talk to my mom, them can'ttalk to my mom, can't talk to
(00:27):
him.
My outlet was just myself.
So one thing I do want toreject is, I guess, just that
mindset that he had just kind ofneglecting.
He was just kind of looking,thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Guys, if you're a parent, I'm throwing down the
gauntlet because this is a hellof a challenge.
There is this old saying neverask a question unless you're
ready for the answer, no matterhow harsh.
Now there is no playbook forparenting and we're all trying
to figure it out.
We're also just trying tofigure out the least amount of
(00:58):
ways to cause damage to anotherhuman being.
If I had to compare it to asport, honestly I don't play it,
but it would be baseball, wherethe goal is to fail 70% of the
time.
So my cousin, jean-jacques,better known as John John, has a
son named Christian, born inApril of 2005.
(01:20):
I have a son named Julian, alsoborn in April 2005.
My cousin and I are exactly thesame age, so there are a lot of
parallels.
It was his idea to sit with ourboys and have a real, honest
conversation.
We wanted to know, as fathers,what we did right, what we could
(01:41):
have done better, while we didflat out wrong, in fact be
graded on our performance asdads.
For me it was a littleheartbreaking to hear the time
missed with my son that I cannever get back.
The honesty from these boys attimes cut a little deep.
But again, why ask if you don'treally want to know?
(02:02):
I can't begin to tell you howproud we are of these young men,
for who they are and whatthey're becoming.
Initially, john John and Ithought we were being brave for
opening this door and possiblybe faced with our own
inadequacies and failures, butit turns out it was the boys
(02:22):
that had to show even morecourage by being vulnerable,
truthful and showing an enormousamount of grace and maturity.
You will definitely enjoy thisconversation.
It's not for the weak.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
Thanks for doing this, guys.
I appreciate you, of course.
(02:59):
So we're sitting down with mycousin, john John.
Dude, we have so much in common.
We are the same age.
Your mom and my dad are brotherand sister.
Our kids have the same names.
Yeah, born on the same month,they're the same age.
So it's crazy how many thingsthat we have that are pretty
much parallels.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
All right.
Well, my real name isJean-Jacques Gregoire Jr, but
everybody calls me JJ.
I'm a coach, I was a teacherwhat else?
Exciting.
Father of Three boys.
Oldest one, his name is Noah,middle son, julien, and youngest
is Christian, but he goes byKiki, and that's what we have
(03:41):
with us here today my youngestyep.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
That leads us to your introduction.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I am Christian Gregoire.
I'm 20 years old.
I play soccer professionally.
That is the occupation I havechosen.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Love it, you ready for this conversation?
I am.
What's up, julian?
That leads me my almostyoungest, except I started over
again.
You were the youngest for thelongest.
How dare you?
I know my bad bro.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Took my title away.
Yeah, but yeah, I am JulianAlexandre, son of the host.
I am also 20.
Currently I work full time witha small side business in car
detailing.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And you guys are like two weeks apart, 17 days.
You're eighth, right?
Yes, sir, I'm 25th.
So 17 days apart.
17 days apart, same age.
So two fathers, two sons.
Yeah, man, jon, jon, yes, sir,I got a question for you.
Brother, what is one thing thatyou are proud of as a dad?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
How he's grown up to be a man.
He's more mature than I was.
I was more of a happy-go-luckykid very naive, into friends,
talented, but life lucky kidvery naive, into friends,
talented.
But life was just one big happyparty for me.
Yeah, I had a really goodupbringing nice, comfortable,
(04:54):
wasn't too hard, thoughteverybody was nice.
I didn't really understand life, yeah.
But as I got older I started torealize that that was very
delusional on my side and he hasnot followed my path.
Where do you think that comesfrom?
I want to say that really comesfrom me being with his mother.
(05:16):
Sometimes I might say somethings like spirits, but I feel
like she came into our life tomake him who he is.
So I give a lot of credit tohis mom because she woke me up
too.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So, really, the thing that you're most proud of is
who he is as a man.
How do you respond to that?
How do you receive that?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Over the years I have honestly given them a lot of
shit for I guess the backhand oftrauma that you receive, that
all kids receive.
I've gotten to the point whereI realize everybody has their
own fair share.
But I would say in response tothat I have to give a lot of
grace to both of them for justthe people that they are,
because obviously I didn'tbecome who I am on my own.
You know you're nurtured byyour parents, if you're lucky
(05:57):
enough to have parents, so fromwhat they've given me, I
wouldn't be who I am now withouteither of them.
Me I wouldn't be who I am nowwithout either of them.
You know they're both kind of ayin and yang.
Yeah, you know they.
They both are opposites in alots of ways, but that they both
complement each other and thatI feel like kind of was a
perfect blend for me yeah, so hegot to see the yin and yang
(06:19):
version of us and now he'sgetting to see a different
version of the yin and yang, thebalance.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I'm more unified yeah , yeah, because, uh, yeah, I
agree, we don't yin and yangthat much anymore.
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, it's like we can't really get upset.
I'm softer to her reactions.
When she gets to a point whereshe gets fired up the scorpio in
her it cools quickly by myresponse.
He gets to see it too, andwe're different now.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
That's awesome, yeah.
So for me, I can't take creditfor it.
I think he's the best humanthat I know in general.
I don't know someone with abigger heart.
I don't know someone who's moreselfless.
I don't know someone who's justmore willing to do for others
and overall a good person.
I cannot take any credit for it.
I've grown to become that, orI'm still striving to become
that, but that's not I don'tknow what it is.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
honestly, I don't know why it gives me that drive
to want to help people.
You know, as a kid my all-timegoal was to become a doctor.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Now I'm like that's too much school.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
I don't want to be a doctor, but I wanted to help
people.
It's always been like theydon't want to be a therapist,
they don't make that much money,but still I always try to help
out my friends.
I try to help out my parents,try to help out my siblings,
anyone that I can.
And even though at a young agemy dad wasn't like that, him
growing to be that personinspired me.
Never said it outwardly to him,but all of his kids see who
(07:41):
he's turning into, how he'sgrowing as a person, because we
all grow.
It never stops.
But yeah, him growing inspiresme currently.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And you still think he's growing now, of course, and
what changes do you see?
Speaker 5 (07:53):
I think he's more calm.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
I think that's the main thing that we all see.
I think your temper is stillthere, but I think it's longer
than it was before.
It takes a lot more to get methere.
Right, I'd say you're morecompassionate.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
I think that's what really inspires me.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
I have another question.
We're going to start with you,Kiki, and then Julian.
You can answer the question.
Yes, sir, when do you thinkyour dad's strength lies?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I would like to use a more sophisticated word than
just control but his ability tomaintain his peace, his energy,
is a very important quality thatI've realized not a lot of
people have.
It allows him to make gooddecisions for himself, maintain
his quality of person.
It allows him to at least staytrue to his character, and I
think that's helped himthroughout life.
(08:41):
And you know, just allow goodenergy and good blessings to
come his way.
Well, there are a lot of peoplewho have, I would say, done
this man wrong, but I can'tthink of any people that have
done damage too much damage.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
That's a very profound statement.
It's awesome.
Same question, Julian.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Definitely your drive , no matter what, if my dad
wants to do something, he'sgoing to do it.
He's going to get there, nomatter what's in his way.
You definitely see that youknow in sales, if he has a goal,
if he wants to do something,there is nothing stopping him
from getting to that point.
I think that's his biggeststrength.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Has that inspired?
You personally?
Do you feel like you can dothat as well?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I'm always learning from it, but I'm a huge
procrastinator, so it looks likeI'm not getting anything from
that, but I see it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I feel like that's just kind of a common quality in
our generation.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So let me ask you a question with your
procrastination so I don't usethat word.
What word do you use?
I don't really have a word forit.
Okay, because if I havesomething that needs to be done,
I do wait for the last minuteto get it done, and I guess
that's procrastination, right,but I know that I'm going to get
it done.
It always gets done well.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
So you operate better under pressure.
Yes, with a tight deadline,with a very tight deadline.
Yeah, sometimes talent worksagainst us.
Yes, knowing that we arecapable of doing that Is that
how it is for you, 100%.
I think I work very well underpressure in that is is that how
it is for you 100 okay, I thinkI work very well under pressure,
so I definitely wait till lastminute for a lot of things.
Okay, I want to ask a tougherquestion.
Hit me what do you wish wecould have done differently,
(10:12):
better, as fathers?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I have one.
Go ahead, kiki.
This is one that, like I'vejust been thinking about, or I,
I've kind of accepted it becausenow it's it's become my own
thing.
But there was a certain pointthat I wish you, instead of
taking your foot off the gas,pushed a little bit harder with
football and just everybody'sclear we're talking about
international football here,meaning soccer yes, sorry, yeah
(10:35):
sorry, I hate to call it thattoo.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Trust me, but like our audience not gonna know what
the hell you're talking about,you're right, you're right, it's
important to clarify.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But yeah, we had actually just talked about this
recently.
You were, you were telling mehow hard your dad was on you
with football and you realizedat a very early age that you
were starting to do that alittle bit with me.
I don't remember.
You said like 7, 8, 9, aroundthat age, yep, and you said you
had stepped off, which Iobviously as a kid definitely
appreciated because I wasdefinitely a lot softer as a kid
(11:03):
, more emotional, and that washard for me at the time.
When I got a little bit oldernow, looking at it, from that 11
to 13, 14 years old age, I hadwished we had spent a little bit
more time and you had pushed alittle bit harder.
Pushed you harder, yeah, totrain, because at that time
period it was kind of like thesimilar thing.
It was just the talent, youknow, passing by.
I wasn't really training toohard.
(11:24):
If he wasn't going to train me,I wasn't going to train, I was
just playing, just to play.
It was something that I wasgood at and I realized at that
point I wasn't really in lovewith the game to a point where I
had thought about becoming aprofessional footballer, you
know, making that my career.
It was more so I thought thatwas just something that I
(11:50):
enjoyed doing.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It was just fun.
I was good at it.
It's always fun.
It was like a game.
It wasn't until 15, 16, Istarted to realize I kind of
like this, I like this shit youknow I actually love this game.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
There's a path here.
Yeah, this matters to me, andthat's when I started to push
myself.
That's when I went on my ownself learning journey.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Pushing yourself is already a great thing that
that's not.
You don't see that a lot in ourgeneration.
No, you want to push yourselfto do that, but do you think
you'd be in a different spot hadhe stepped on the gas right now
?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
that is a good question, you know, I also, I
ponder that as well.
I don't know, I don't know if,if he, if he, had pushed harder,
would I had, you know, fallenout of love with the game,
thinking that it was more forhim than it was for me, because
there was a point where I, youknow, that thought had crossed
my mind, right, but I don't know.
All you can really do is, youknow, imagine the possibilities.
And for me now, just wonderingwhat I could have been, maybe I
(12:35):
could be a little bit better.
Now, right, you know, justthinking, maybe my right foot
could be a little bit better orI'd be more confident in my
shooting.
My shooting would would just beperfect.
These are just imaginarysituations.
You know hypotheticals you knowwhat's crazy.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Oh my God, if I could bottle what you just said and
take it back to everyeight-year-old, because you
can't push it on the kids Somecan.
All of the greats have alwaysbeen pushed to the point where
it was almost unreasonable,almost like abuse.
Tiger Woods' dad not abusive,but you're going to practice
until your knuckles bleed.
You don't have a choice, You'rebeaten into them.
(13:09):
Yeah, you know, you're wakingup at a certain time.
Michael Jordan's dad like allthese people who become the
greatest, they have this story.
Look at the Williams sisters.
What was his name?
It was a King Richard.
He wasn't playing.
This is what's happening.
You're going to practice rightnow.
You're doing this and this iswhat you're going to become.
You will become the greatestright, or there's a shot at it.
So Julian and I have a slightlydifferent story.
(13:31):
You've been with your dad yourwhole life.
His mom and I divorced when hewas about three years old, so
then he'd spend the summer withme and that was in a whole
different state.
So he spent the summer with me.
I'd see him all the time, but Iwasn't around as much, and this
is kind of fucked up.
But I want to fix everythingwhen I have him for two months.
So he wasn't playing soccer andI asked him one time he's eight
(13:51):
years old.
I remember this exactly.
He was eight years old and I'mgoing what do you want to be?
He's a professional soccerplayer.
I said, well, shit, you'regoing to play against.
They've been practicing sincethey were three.
You're eight, you haven'ttouched the ball, so let's go.
So I have him in the garage andI'm pushing him and he's not,
you know, hitting the ballagainst coming back to him and
he's not trapping it.
And I keep pushing and pushingand then he starts crying and I
(14:15):
felt like absolute piece of shit.
I felt bad.
His sister came out because sheheard me.
I'm talking to him like a coach, the way I imagine any coach
would be, yelling at theirstudents.
At least I thought so.
But she comes out, she looks atme, she goes really Like you're
(14:40):
not going to ease off, Right,and I was like I guess I am.
Then I look at Julian andJulian's in tears.
I'm like I'm so sorry, I was on10, bring this shit down to
five, but you don't give up.
You know, in my mind I was likeI don't want to live
vicariously through you becauseI missed my shot, so all parents
overall have it.
How much do you push to wherethey don't become resentful?
You know, I don't want you tofeel like this is not for me,
(15:02):
it's for you dad and stuff likethat.
And I don't know if youremember that incident.
I don't.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Thank God.
But that would have been andthat is my answer to your
question pushing me harder towhere there is no giving up,
pretty much Because you tried toget me into golf and I was into
golf for a little bit, I wastaking lessons.
I could totally see that, youcan see me as a golfer.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I could totally see that you should see his swing.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
I'm so jealous because he naturally has an
amazing ability, but I didn'twant to do it to where I was
playing as a sport.
I just wanted to do it for fun.
But when I realized that it was, I'm taking it seriously.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I was like him, like did you take a hundred swings
today?
Because every golfer you got togo out take a hundred swings
every single day.
I got him this weighted club,so you just go in the yard swing
it a hundred times, and he'd behonest.
He'd just like, okay, do ittomorrow, son, do it tomorrow.
And then one day he calls me,he goes dad, I don't want to
(16:05):
play golf.
I was like all right.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
That was one of the most disappointing phone calls
I've ever had with him.
I never liked to know that Idisappointed somebody.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Even to this day.
I don't know if that's an issueor if that's something that I
need to work on, but I hatepeople being disappointed in me
because I feel like I could havedone better.
I will tell you right now fuckthat.
No, that's a weakness.
No, you want to do what's rightby people.
Forget being your dad.
I will tell anyone this you dowhat's best for you a hundred
percent of the time.
Don't worry about people beingdisappointed.
Now, if someone's giving youadvice and they're pouring into
you, you have a mentor,someone's trying to push you and
get you somewhere.
Yes, sure, try not todisappoint that person, but
don't think about overall notdisappointing people, because
that will hurt you more thananything else.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yep, they will take advantage?
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Just to answer to that question, just the heart of
push.
There is no giving up, becauseI do think well.
I mean, like Kiki said, youdon't know where you're going to
be had this been different.
But I do think I would havebeen in a better spot had I been
pushed for either soccer orgolf.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So if the choice is push your son and the risk is,
yeah, but he might resent thegame.
Hate me, be mad at me, but he'sgoing to be great.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, I mean because when the kid gets older and that
talent is refined, it's up tothem if they want to use it.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Exactly.
At least you help them build itand prepare them Build
character.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I mean exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
At least you help them build it and prepare them
build character.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I mean pushing sons anything.
Man, a pianist, a great pianist.
They practice eight hours a daylike these kids.
Don't just become what they arebecause they just like mess
around with it I got theblueprint now.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean, if I had another one, the next one
would be great as parents,that's all we want.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And someone said parenting is about finding the
the least amount of way to fuckup another person.
This person is going to bemessed up, but you're trying to
find do the least amount ofdamage to that person.
And like you said earlier, Kiki, there's so much trauma.
Everyone grows up with trauma.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
You know, we grew up with Haitian parents.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, that was fun, yeah, you know how that is.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So with Kiki, which was different, I got him when he
was young.
There was a time that me andhis mom weren't together, okay.
So I kind of had to be the dadand the mom.
So I had this real sensitiveside.
Then I had the dad side, butthe dad side was from what I
knew from my dad, yeah, whichwas not too much talking, very
(18:21):
cold, yeah, this way no otherway.
And I was battling with thesensitive side because he needed
that nurturing.
Yeah, right, and it wasn't toolong.
When it came to me working withhim with football, the hardness
was there.
And I remember when I too hardon him, one time I was like I
don't want to be like my dadwith him, because I want him to
(18:42):
continue, yeah, play the game.
I remember it, I was in the carand I was like I gotta stop.
So when we had conversationswith his mom, she was like you
know, you gotta keep workingwith him.
And I'm like, well, I don'tknow if I want to do that,
because that hardness and thatsoftness already merged together
.
So if he didn't want to train,I wasn't going to train, I
wasn't going to push it, becauseif I pushed it I knew where it
(19:05):
was going to go.
At least you thought it wasgoing to go to where he was.
It was going to.
I remember one practice we had.
It was bad in the garage.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
You know it was going to go somewhere.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
And he's old at that point.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
How old are you when that's happening?
I don, yeah, so I just rememberthat.
Are you talking about the onewhere I was hitting the ball a
little hard?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Oh my God, yeah, so we were passing the ball and he
wasn't doing something right andhe was getting upset, I would
pass him the ball and he woulddo it.
Then he kept sending the ballback to me with a little more
pepper.
So I said this little guy istrying to challenge me.
So he played one.
I said I didn't say anything tohim.
(19:45):
So he played it.
Really, he played back to me.
I hit him with a one-touch shot.
Boom, the thing hit the wallbehind him.
He was so shocked.
I was shocked.
I did it.
So I said, okay, that's enough,because I had to calm down,
because that ball would havegone through him.
Yeah, if it hit him, it wasgoing to destroy him.
(20:09):
So I was like, okay, I got tostop this.
And then I was like, okay, no,I can't, I cannot do this.
I got to.
How old is he?
Then?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Like 10?
, no younger.
Yeah, oh wow, oh my God.
Yeah, you're going to kill thiskid.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
So there's a kid that I train now.
That has what I wish I couldhave done with Kiki that I'm
doing with this kid now.
He's with me all the time.
He trains all the time.
Yeah, and if I had to trainKiki like the way I'm training
this kid, he would be furtherthan he is now.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And that's the thing, right.
I'm afraid to lose my son.
Is it worth it that I keeppushing on this Because maybe
he's going to be an accountant,maybe he's going to be a doctor?
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Has it ever crossed your mind before?
I don't know if you could domath, but you just I'm pretty
bad at it.
Fuck up my taxes.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
But I mean, dude, I don't know, because I've always
told you it's like there reallyis nothing you can't accomplish.
Especially, anyone who takesthemselves serious today will
dominate this generation.
But yeah, it did cross my mindin terms of whether or not I
would lose you.
I don't want to lose you togolf again.
Keep in mind, I'm away from you, right, right, I have you for
two months.
(21:12):
There was a time where I drovesix hours, whatever it was, to
come get you, and I got realclose and you were like, hey, I
don't want to go.
You called me to tell you Idon't want to go.
I just drove six hours to comeget my son, and he's six years
old, on the phone telling me,dad, is it okay if I don't come
with you?
My response was like, all right, bye, cause I was hurt.
Now, that was not your doing,just to be clear.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
I obviously don't remember that.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Trust me it wasn't your doing, so I'll just leave
it at that.
My point is if all I have withyou is one and a half, two weeks
at christmas, the last thing Iwant to do is force something on
you, right?
Because then you really don'twant to come.
It's like someone I get there.
I'm just gonna make me workhard.
All I want to play video gamesand chill and sit and eat my
cereal, and if you have it inmind that when you show up I'm
(21:59):
having you do drills at 6 amyou're not looking forward to
that?
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Right so.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I think, like our situations, we have so many
parallels, but you and I, jon,jon, this is where there's a
huge difference, because Ididn't have Julian with me, you
had Kiki with you and I had toalways balance that and navigate
that, because I'm always afraidof that phone call coming hey
Dad, I don't want to spend thesummer with you, I'd be messed
up.
I'm like damn.
So I got to be like no, whenyou come here, you're not going
to do anything but eat cereal.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's going to be great.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, you're going to watch Looney Tunes I got to
give the flowers to Moniqueagain.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, because at a very young age she was like boys
need to be with their fathers.
Wow, yeah, man, she got a bigbouquet of flowers.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Oh, man, I want to stop the show and go and give
her some flowers right now.
Because it's true, bro, it'strue, it's not just hand your
son over to some dude who's abum, who's a loser.
A there has to be the desirefrom the dad.
The dad has to be like I wantmy son and I'd love to have him.
Secondly, she has to understandthat a woman cannot raise a man
Now.
(23:05):
They'll do their very best, butwhen you have someone like
Monique, who would figure thisout early and have that level of
maturity to say this is what'sbest for him I mean, do you know
mothers and their sons?
But do you love him for you ordo you love him for him?
Because if you love him for him, you do what's best for him-
you know I give credit to my mom.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
She did do the best that she can.
She still does do the best thatshe can.
But I do also wish that when Iwas younger there was a chance
for me to go live with my dadand my mom bottom line just said
, no, you're not going.
But I do wish that sheunderstood that the dad needs to
raise his son.
I think I would have grown as aperson a lot had I had that
opportunity it was about tohappen.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
but then I was like, well, let's sign these papers,
almost like she would lose herrights, and that's what spooked
her.
And she was just like nah, thisain't happening.
And you know she deaded thewhole thing.
The only thing that should havemattered is you're coming with
me.
Hindsight is 2020, bro.
Question for you guys.
Again, this is mostly about youtwo.
Tell me about a very specificmoment that you believe altered.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
I'm going to tell you why I'm drawing a blank.
Going back to the previousquestion, I didn't see him a lot
so I didn't have a lot ofmoments to where it could have
really altered.
There were, I'm sure, timeswhere I should have had like a
core memory, but just the twomonths out of the year is hard
to pinpoint.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, you already know that I can't really
remember much from before I waslike eight years old.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I was waiting for Julian to finish, because
there's something that blockshim from remembering Really.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yes, Anything from prior, from before eight years
old, so I'm going to explain itto you like this there's bits
and pieces that I can rememberfrom before, that it kind of
seems like a slideshow in myhead, certain pictures that I
can remember from a certainmemory, but to me it feels like
my life started at Concord,which is how old I was, about
(24:53):
seven years old.
I remember the Georgia Expressera, just that.
I was there, but I can'tremember anything about it.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Which is what I think that might be when your mom
came.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
There's a picture we have upstairs where you're
holding me and I'm holding thetoy gun.
I don't remember anything aboutthat except, like I said, a
picture in my head that it'slike a hallway.
I mean the only thing that Ican really say at around 11
years old he had an opportunityto take me again like as a
player, but he didn't.
It was the first time ever,actually, that I was not with
(25:27):
him, right that was the firsttime, yeah yeah, first time he
wasn't my coach.
So at 11 years old I got sent tothis program DA.
Right, that was the first timePlaying.
Yeah, yeah, first time hewasn't my coach.
So at 11 years old I got sentto this program DA, which at the
time was the big hotshot leaguefor the academy kids.
You know that was the bestthing to be in.
He was in between jobs and hewas switching to a new club, so
he didn't have my age group.
But then he got my age groupand instantly, yo get me out of
(25:48):
here.
I'm ready, let me come playwith you.
Your team looks fire, let mecome play with them.
And he was like nah, man, justfinish out the year, just finish
out the year.
Why was that why?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
did you want him to stay with the other coach
instead of coming to you?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, the reason why I didn't pull him out was
because DA was the leagueDevelopment Academy League, was
the league development academyleague.
He was younger than everybodyplaying up, so for me I was like
, okay, he's gonna be playingwith good competition, right,
he's supposed to get better.
But it didn't happen.
It did not happen because hewas playing with bigger kids no
(26:24):
well, no not necessarily biggerkids.
They were supposed to be thethe top kids of an age group
above him okay so it's just likeAtlanta United.
So the best players go to thesedevelopment academy clubs, right
.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So they were all just like top quality players and a
year older than me, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I was like, okay, he's going to benefit out of
that.
But I also had an 05 team.
That was really good.
But I was like I don't want topull him down to that.
I don't know if he did you tellme directly that this was what
you wanted to do.
I said I want to leave.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I said get me out.
We had a conversation about it.
I was like yo like cause I wasreally cool with a lot of the
players on the team at the time.
You know Cole and Nico.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
You were cool with his players, so you were like
get me out of here, I want toplay with you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, I was like man, I want to train with you, like
I want to play with your players.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
This is the perfect ideal situation and that's funny
because I don't remember thisconversation and you know the
reason why I think I might havejust blocked him out like
because I don't want to hit himyou're not going to do it, but
it's to fact, because if he didplay for that team, the team
would have been ridiculous.
It would have changed the game.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
The team was phenomenal man.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
I know that I've gotten this advice and I've
given it.
Talk to your kids, listen tothem, especially if they're
articulating exactly what theywant.
Was there a moment like thatfor you, where you were just
like specific about somethingthat you wanted?
Not really, no, I was kind ofafraid to speak your mind too,
100%.
This was terrifying to me forno reason bro, Growing up I was.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
I have no idea why I was scared of my dad, but my mom
was always a disciplinarian.
I don't get whippings as a kid,but I was scared From your mom,
From my mom.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, I didn't touch her.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
I was your protector too.
Yeah, I was your protector too.
It was like frequent growing up.
My last one was when I was 13.
I mean, it was the day beforemy birthday.
Again, none to do with me, so goahead Explain Getting
disciplined by my mom, gave me afear that my dad would probably
do the same thing if I didsomething wrong.
So I was just scared to speak,because if I spoke out against
(28:29):
my mom she would just think, oh,he's talking back.
And then it would just leadmore like fueling wanting to get
worse?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Did you have a fear that he was going to do it worse
?
Speaker 5 (28:35):
I just had a fear that he would do it, period.
I didn't want to get hit byboth my parents.
I'm already getting hit by one.
Why don't I want a bell fromthe other one?
But that was just my kid brainthinking oh, if I do something
bad or if I speak out when Ithink I'm not supposed to, he's
going to hit me too.
And that was never the case.
He always wanted to talk andwanted to hear me out, but I
just never understood that as akid.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I remember this one incident, bro.
We're playing at a gym whereyou were coaching all these kids
.
We're playing futsal and I'mstanding next to you.
I'm standing next to Jon Jonand I went hey, julian, he was
running full speed, stopped onthe dime, dropped to the ground,
(29:15):
almost like waiting for thenext command.
And then John John looked at meand said what are you doing to
him?
And I was like nothing.
What do you mean?
I've done nothing.
I was like hey, man, son, justcome here.
What's wrong with you?
I don't know what that was andit kind of coached me to be even
softer.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I can't have him be afraid of me because I was
afraid of my dad.
It was my one of the first time, probably the only time I've
heard you yell towards me.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Calling you.
Yes, how are you across the gym?
I needed to get your attention.
I've always been close.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
How else could I have ?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
called you.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I say the same thing to the kids.
I said you're way over there.
I said there's no way I can sayhey, no, I have to yell yeah, I
have to project my voice.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Hey, julian, you're over there.
You're like literally like 40yards away from me inside the
gym where 30 other kids arerunning and making noise because
I was used to my mom.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
If my mom yelled my name I was in trouble.
So when I heard my dad sayJulian, I'm like oh shit wow.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I'm done for.
So you put all your fears fromyour mom onto your dad, that's
exactly how I was as a kid.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That's exactly the reason, so do you think the fact
that you grew up with prettymuch predominantly all women had
an impact on that?
There was only women in thehouse your sisters, both your
sisters.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
You didn't have brothers, you didn't have your
dad around and your sister'sseven years older than you were
and she's more like a mom.
That is true.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
He's going to go like a mom, that is true.
He's gonna go home and startrelaxing.
It's my time now I was justwondering like do you think
that's had at least some impact?
Speaker 5 (30:40):
I think so.
Where was the male role model?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
yeah, there's no one that lived eight hours away yeah
, or when you would come hangout with us, like right and I
would see things and I was likedamn, yeah, that's what it's
like, I guess.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Kiki, do you want to have a family one day?
Children, yes, julian, yes,okay.
So what will you take from yourdad's myself, john, john and
say, hey, I want to emulate thisas a father.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, I would just say I want to be for sure as
close with my kids as he waswith me.
Our relationship.
It's hard to consider itsometimes like a father-son
relationship, because growing upwe definitely just to me kind
of just felt like homies yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But we were real close and the pictures.
He doesn't remember, butthey're in the pictures.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
We were always together yeah, yeah, like, yeah,
I think that's.
That's one thing, because Iknow I want two boys, I want two
sons, and that's just becauseof a personal thing for me
feeling like an only child,because my two brothers are
basically damn near 10 yearsolder than me, yeah and, like I
said, I have no recollectionreally of when they were around.
Yeah, I just kind of rememberthem being dickheads to me.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
That was it that's how it works, by the way.
You just wish for two boys andyou get them, just just so you
know wow, okay, great, I'm sorryhe's gonna have a daughter,
that's fine no, I want three.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, she's come third, though, julia, you got
one he's like ain't shit, youdid no, no, you was a six to
eight hours away I ain't gotnone I ain't got none, but he
tried so you're gonna say I'mgonna try, I'm gonna try it's
(32:21):
okay son, it's all right no,because you, you, you put in a
lot of effort into all three ofus, especially into me.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
You didn't stop trying.
I don't want to stop trying.
I don't know if that's a goodanswer, but we're not looking
for a good answer, we're lookingfor your answer.
It almost piggybacks off orcompletely piggybacks off of
Kiki's answer to be close to mykid and to just keep making an
effort, I guess, to maintainthat relationship with them.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Love that.
Yeah, I think that's a goodanswer because, to be honest, in
your situation you didn't haveto try as hard as you did.
You really didn't.
I hear that a lot.
I hear that a lot.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
That's what I'm grateful for, because you hear
about it all the time that thedad was just never there but, he
was always there.
Even if he wasn't physicallythere, he was always there.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I'm definitely grateful for that swells my
heart a little bit to know thatyou recognize it, and I
appreciate it 100.
I have another question for youguys, which is the opposite of
what I just asked.
As fathers, what will youreject from what you've learned
from your dads?
Speaker 5 (33:23):
I actually do not have an answer for this question
.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, he's like yeah that's good.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Your turn, kiki, but I do.
I know he does, but I do.
I would say the only thing forme, the one critique I would
have is it sounds like you kindof explained it, that hard side
and soft side at one point kindof merged.
But for me as a kid, like thedynamic with you and my mom was
as we know, my mom was very hardon me, you know, very
(33:53):
expressive, very emotional.
So a lot of the times Icouldn't really go talk to her
about what was upsetting me orbothering me.
I had to shelter that away fromher and with him.
I won't say he wasn't emotional, but he wasn't kind of
receptive to having thoseemotional conversations.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Because I didn't have those with my dad.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, that's a learned skill.
Eventually we learn to breakfrom that.
But I don't want to cut you off, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
No no, no, now I understand.
Obviously, hopefully, as allpeople do, you grow and you
start to understand these things, but as a kid it was like a
little shit.
I got all these people in thehouse.
Yeah, it feels like I can'tspeak to none of them.
Can't talk to my mom, can'ttalk to him.
I don't even remember if mybrothers were in the picture at
this time, but definitelywouldn't have felt like I was
(34:36):
going to be able to talk to them.
So my outlet was just myself.
So one thing I do want toreject is, I guess, just that
mindset that he had of just kindof neglecting it was just kind
of looking past it, because forme he would have been the one
outlet, the person that I couldtalk to.
And I feel like as a father,there will be those moments
(34:56):
where you have to engage in thatconversation with your son and
kind of teach him the way.
Luckily enough for me, I feellike I kind of learned after a
certain point of how to handlethese things, but with his
guidance, or just a father'sguidance, I feel like it'll
definitely help a son throughouttheir path in life.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Yeah, I may not have an answer for this question, but
to the previous question ofwhat I would do with my kid, the
same your receptiveness.
I could sit down and talk to mymom, but she was way more
emotional and she would snap wayquicker.
So say one wrong thing and thenthe mood just shifts.
Just like that, but with my dad.
He always heard us out.
You always listened to what wehad to say, had a response and
(35:37):
we actually had a conversation.
I feel like I was an adult I'mfive years old talking to him,
so definitely want to have thatwith my future kid.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Hopefully this conversation is a little
eye-opening for you both.
We're all being vulnerable.
We're opening up about ourshortcomings, etc.
Are you hearing some of thedifficulties to actually parent
another human being and guidethem through this universe For
sure?
Is it making you in the leastbit apprehensive?
Or is it making you feel likeno, I'm excited, I can't wait to
(36:07):
take on the challenge.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I would say I'm a bit nervous to be a father, but I
wouldn't say I fear it.
I wouldn't say I look forwardto it either, because I don't
really want it to happen toosoon.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
No, it's not happening anytime soon?
I would hope not.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
My whole thing is son please.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Right before you tap it.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Whatever, man, just do not let this happen.
I'm telling you, I watch peoplewho are further along in life
and have accomplished things,even people who are married.
They go a long time, they focuson their career, they
accomplish certain things andthey get to the point where
they're financially super stablestable, because having a kid,
being a parent, as you'rehearing is already difficult
enough.
Imagine doing it like I did.
(36:50):
I'm fighting financially, I'mstruggling the entire time and
I'm raising children.
It should never do it that way.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
We weren't taught that anyway, Correct.
So there's a way to do it.
Did you have a mentor growingup?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Jon, jon, I did not.
Yeah, I talk about this all thetime.
I had people around me who areolder than me, who looked up to
me.
So, instead of me having topull from them, they're pulling
from me, and I'm watching theseguys who are older than me make
horrible mistakes and those weremy examples and I'm being
honest to them.
I'm still looking to them.
And all these guys, two orthree baby mamas yep, they got
(37:25):
kids.
You know, I'm just like, yeah,that's just the way it is.
When they are in relationships,they are not monogamous.
If a husband was had an affair,whatever, it's expected that
when the wife finds out, sheforgives him.
She just moves on.
If you go back to the earlierin the 60s, even 70s and 80s
it's just what it was would youagree?
no, no no, I'm saying yeah,totally, totally back back then.
Right, and I think now there'smore of a universal, worldly
(37:49):
conscious effort for men tonormalize being monogamous and
not brag about the fact thatthey have two, three, four
different women.
That's sad, but even as I cameup like in my generation, it was
a badge of honor.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Still is that way, um you'll see it a lot, even if,
like, they're not in arelationship just saying I got
hoes.
That's like the biggest thing.
We have multiple women lined up, you have a roster, some people
would say um I'm starting five,sometimes starting five, that's
a good
Speaker 1 (38:14):
one that's the slang right now.
People would refer to women astheir ball I'm glad you
clarified.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I would not know what someone's talking about exactly
.
Might Might be an unfairquestion, but I'll ask it anyway
.
How do you think yourrelationship with your dad ranks
when you compare it to yourdad's relationship with your
other siblings?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Okay, well, that's an easy one for me.
We're definitely closer.
I mean, we just spent more timetogether than he did with the
other ones.
It was just an unfortunatesituation to the point where he
wasn't able to be with them foras long as he was with me.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Yeah, what about you, julian?
What do you think that ranks?
Speaker 5 (38:48):
I think, it shifted throughout the years.
Now I think it's even you know.
When you ask your mom or dad,you're like who's your favorite?
And they're like I love you allequally.
That's what I always hear whenI know damn well as a favorite.
I think there is the exact sameamount of effort and attention
(39:08):
that goes into all of us evenly.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
What about you, john john?
What do you think like is ifyou had to put in your two cents
in this, unless you havesomething to say right now?
Speaker 2 (39:17):
well, I do.
I have a lot to say about by allmeans my brother about the
first two, but I thought weweren't going to bring them in.
That's why I didn't, you know,talk too much about them.
The situation was completelydifferent.
Yeah, the mom, that was a toughtime in my life, you know.
And, uh, she poisoned thoseboys against me and for the
longest time they were with her,I was pretty much 98 of the
(39:40):
time.
So she, they believed her, sure, and she just made me to be out
the villain and it was hard forme to reprogram them.
He's not my first, but he feelslike my first.
He actually had a relationship,yeah, like the other two, and
it's still to this point.
It's like they're grown men now.
How do we become what we shouldhave been long time ago?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I think there's a point when that happens, and the
reason I say that is becausewhen I wanted that with my dad,
no one poisoned me against mydad.
I just saw what I saw.
But there was always somethingin me as a grown man, I'm 30, 40
years old, longing for arelationship with my father, one
that I wish I had, because I'mwatching other grown men who are
30, 40, 50 years old having anamazing relationship with that.
(40:25):
That's the best friend.
You know.
They're talking about their dadlike that's my boy, you serious,
I'm at my dad's house, likehanging out.
Oh, he's at my house, he's.
He's cutting my grass, likethere's these connections, which
is lovely.
They're going to home peopletogether because you know he
just bought a house and dad overhere fixing stuff.
Like the connection was there.
If he needs a shoulder to cryon, he calls his dad.
Overall, as men, we all haveour level of brokenness and you
(40:46):
can't just put a bandaid onthese things.
Because it was too late for me,right?
Because when my father passedwe had not spoken in years.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Oh no, I'm always open to them, but I just going
to always see it as beingdifficult for them, right?
Because of the relationshipthat I have with Kiki, because
he's here, he's with me all thetime, he's on the pathway that
they wanted to be on.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
So it's a good segue to what Julian was just saying,
because if you had asked mebefore, a long time ago, if I
had a favorite child, I wouldhave said yes, maybe not to my
children.
It changed over time.
I have matured and alsorealized one thing I love my
kids equally, but I love themall differently.
I look for him to come to meand say hey, man, I'm dating
this girl, this is issues I'mhaving.
I look to see his kids and pourinto them what I should have
(41:29):
poured into him, all of thesedifferent things.
But then I look at my girls andmy relationship with each one
is totally different, but everyone of them there is a different
relationship, meaning thatthere's a way that I love you
and there's a way I'm going tolove them, and those are not the
same.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
So, like Kiki and I have gone through stages as far
as who we are to each other, andI think right now is a really
good because I'm communicatingmore, which I didn't before,
because that used to be thething.
My dad doesn't talk.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I used to always be like guys.
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
What do you want to know?
What do you?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
mean I don't talk.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Did you ask me a question, did I not answer, and
so it didn't, it didn't.
I didn't understand what theywere saying, because mom would
say the same thing.
Then my mom would be like y'all, you don't, don't talk what
does that mean?
Like I'm.
I'm a quiet person.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
I'm always observing, yeah, and I'm taking things in
right, yeah, but now I speak mymind, I talk, I even start a
conversation yeah I feel likethey don't want me to talk now
because you have too much to sayyeah, yeah, it's been bottled
for years, bro, yeah, so here'swhat they don't realize.
You've known him for 20 years.
He's not that way with you guys.
(42:44):
He's that way period.
I'd come to you with someissues, but I tried not to
because I was like he doesn'tbring me his shit, like it's not
fair to him that I start to,because I've had a lot more
problems.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
I should say more problems, but when it was kind
of settled down for you, I wasgoing through it I'm a very good
listener, so if you bring it tome I'll listen, I'll give some
input, some feedback, but I'mnot gonna come and be like hey
there was something about youthat always came across as
stoicism.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Maybe that's why I wouldn't even come to you,
because I'd bring something toyou and give me.
He'd give me a super logical,simple answer.
I'm like, well, it's logical,that's not.
That's not what I need to hear,bro, that's not what you want
to do.
Yeah, so fuck it, I'm not goingto bring shit up.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I think, though, because of the way he was, it
kind of helped me toautomatically fix things on my
own.
You know, because, like I said,I couldn't go to him with
certain problems and basicallyask for his help or ask him to
fix it for me.
Just him being him, being theperson that he is, it just
obviously forced me to kind ofsit down and take everything in
(43:46):
and, you know, just, I guess,solve it all myself.
And now it's kind of become abad habit, because I don't
really ask anybody for anything.
I kind of just I'm going to gofigure this out on my own, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
And now I'm just going to go learn.
I'll be trying to call him andbe like hey, you know, I'm
willing to offer some advicehere, now, and this guy is like,
he's like, turned into me?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
yeah, and I'm good and then I'll tell him three
months later that you know, theworld burned down and everything
was going.
But I'm good now.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
I already fixed it, I already got it do you think
it's something that you can kindof work on, because you see
what it turns into, and you endup wasting a couple of decades
before you where you realize,nah, maybe that's not the way I
need to be.
Yeah, allow people to be therefor you, especially someone who
loves you more than anybody elsein the world loves you.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah, I know, there are definitely certain times
where I can let them in.
I just choose not to.
I just choose to kind of do mylone wolf path.
I guess it's kind of like anachievement thing.
It's like kind of grinding outa video game and just beating
the entire story mode byyourself and being like, yeah, I
did that right that was methose two are probably my
greatest mentors.
Mom and dad.
Yeah, just just by by watchingthem, because, like I said, you
(44:48):
know, I didn't really talk tohim I kind of grew up in his
observer.
So I kind of just watched them,learned and kind of soaked in
and I guess I kind of created ablend of them, their own yin and
yang it's amazing how much likehim you are that you don't
realize.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
So, speaking of that, because I was a lot like my
father, I am a lot like myfather and I try to denounce it
as much as possible.
So let me ask you both aquestion what do you see in
yourself that you clearly seefrom your father?
My temper, okay yeah, you gottemper 100.
Speaker 5 (45:19):
Oh, I'm just like I've seen you mad, I'm just like
junjun'm just like I don't liketo talk.
I like to say to myself sothere was a point.
It wasn't too long ago, dadtried calling me twice or three
times.
I didn't answer, I just didn'twant to talk.
And at some point he texted me.
He was like are you okay?
Like what are you?
Did I do something?
And I was like no, he didn't doanything, I just don't want to
talk.
(45:39):
And we went to go get somethingto eat.
And then he just said I'm hereto listen, just talk.
And I think we sat there forlike a good hour.
Yeah, because I was at work, itwas on a lunch break.
For an hour I talked.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
This dude does have a temper.
How many controllers have youbeen through now?
Three, yeah, wow.
So I started to put yourbusiness out there.
Speaker 5 (45:57):
But I I have a little temper that I get from my dad
Because he used to tell mestories about how you had a
short temper.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
I think you still do.
No, it's controlled.
It's controlled now Totally.
People cut me off in traffic.
I'm just like, eh, whatever.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
That's his release.
You're blowing up, breaking thecontrollers 100%.
But the thing about it is he'sprobably like me, where he takes
a lot in.
There's going to be somethingthat is going to set it off.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
It can be something so small like a video game, yeah
, and it will blow up.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I don't know if I told you.
Well, I'm sure I told him, buthis mom knows that I'm afraid of
the angry person inside me.
He's just a very dangerousperson.
So I prefer to be fearful onthe outside, because I know
what's on the inside and it'scome up a couple of times, yeah,
in my life, and I had nocontrol of it, damn, and I was
(46:51):
really afraid of it.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
I'm not myself yeah, we've talked about that before,
yeah mine was just pure rage,yeah like the hulk.
Speaker 4 (46:59):
Yeah, dumb hulk not smart smart.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Green one, not the green one.
What's the fondest memory thatyou guys have?
Speaker 5 (47:07):
I have plenty.
I'm trying to narrow it down toa couple.
I forgot what part of Memphisit was when I used to visit you
in the one-story house,arlington, arlington, yeah, it
would be like the last day ofeach summer that I would spend
with him.
We would always get ice cream.
Listen to my favorite Haitiansong at the time.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Superstar, that's funny.
I was like what's your favoriteHaitian song?
Okay, superstar, I got you.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
It was it was the same every summer, I don't know,
for some reason.
That's always like one of myfavorite memories I had with him
, just having that car ride tothe ice cream shop coming back
and I'd be like, let's listen tosuperstar.
He'd put it on and we'd justsing it on the way back to the
house.
I really love that memory coolkiki you got one.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I kind of want to put it more in broad terms.
It's not really a specificmemory per se it's kind of just
like the idea back in the day,like the futsal days.
I would say that's probablylike my fondest memories, where
and we were just in the gym andhe would host futsal like it
wasn't on tuesdays back at the,the warehouse, the little
warehouse, yeah, yeah, I wouldsay probably around that time
(48:06):
because that was when, you know,like we would just go in there
and we would just play, therewas training.
At that younger age I dreadedthat part, but yeah, at the end
of it, when it was time to play,that was always my happy time,
that was my joyful space andthat was always something that
we shared together because hewas running the sessions and I
was always a part of it yeah butto me at that time I felt like
(48:26):
the star of the show, because Iwas just in there, I was doing
my thing, like as a kid, I feltlike I was just cooking,
everybody just having fun.
Yeah, big old smile on my face,just having a good time, nice,
and that was just, you know,just a very joyful memory that
he was always a part ofsomething that we always shared
and it lasted for a pretty goodtime fantastic.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Last question how do you see your relationship with
your dad going forward, how doyou see it developing and how
would you like it to be?
I see us growing more as bestfriends.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
We're hanging out more.
We're going to the gym together, we're doing stuff now together
.
It's hanging out a lot more,especially now, now that you're
closer.
It's a 30-minute drive to yourhouse and, honestly, just keep
it that way, and that'ssomething that I would work on
as well just reaching out more,not just father and son, but
like best friends.
You'll be the first person Icall if I'm thinking about
(49:16):
something, if I'm going to dosomething in my life in the
future, if I have kids, you'llbe there for the kids as well
you know, I love that, thank you.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
What about you, kiki?
Speaker 1 (49:24):
well, for us it's going to be a little bit
different now because what we'reused to is being together.
You know we've pretty muchspent all of my life together.
I mean actually within the lastsix years, as you all know,
like I've been in and out thehouse just going to Portugal,
brazil, doing whatever the hellit is I'm doing for soccer yeah
(49:45):
so we've already kind of hadthat separation, but now it's
going to be a little bitdifferent.
He has a new businessopportunity.
He's taking his businesselsewhere and now I'm a little
bit older, so my career itselfis also taking a turn.
So I'll be even farther.
You know, with my business younever really know where you're
going to end up or for how long.
So for us it's going to be, Iguess, a new challenge, just a
(50:09):
little bit harsher than whatwe've already been experiencing
the last few years.
So I guess for me it's going tobe a little more difficult
because, like we said, I'm notreally that good at talking.
I'm like him, but now I'm alittle bit worse than him.
Phone talking I'm like him, butnow I'm a little bit worse than
him.
Phone calls really hard for mebecause I just, for whatever
reason, don't like being on thephone.
It's nothing personal.
I'll just look at a phone calland be like no.
Speaker 5 (50:33):
I'm the same way, dude.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
I've given up.
I literally have given up.
I'll just text and be like I'mnot going to be mad, because
I've learned from my dad andboth my mom If I go a few days
without calling them, I dreadcalling because I know it's been
three, four days.
And when I call oh, now youknow you have a father, now you
know you have a mother.
I'm like, oh my God, that's whyI wasn't so.
(51:02):
One week will turn into twomonths.
Now it's a real problem.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
You know what I mean.
I think for me that's justgoing to be something that I
have to work on, especially withthe time difference and how far
it's going to be.
It's going to be important forme to work on that so we can
actually keep in touch.
But one thing that is going tobe important for me in our
relationship is I'm still goingto be looking for his, his
guidance, in our sport, becausehe's always been my teacher,
from day one.
So it's definitely easier forme to trust his guidance and his
(51:28):
word in my profession and whatI do than to trust somebody
else's.
I'm always going to be lookingfor his opinion.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
That's beautiful man.
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but it sounds to me
like it's more than just thesport.
He's a pro, he's been coachingfor a long time, but it sounds
like you're looking for guidanceoverall in life.
Well, correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Oh yeah, for sure, because what football has become
, it's definitely a big piece ofmy life.
It's part of who I am and hehas nurtured that both who I am
and the part of the game in me.
So JonJon.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Any final words, brother?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah in me.
So, jonjon, any final words,brother, yeah, I would say, for
moving forward with our boys.
I think this is a good time forthem, a different time in our
life.
I think it's important thatthey do stay in touch because
you and I, older, we'rerealizing time.
Time is very important.
Time doesn't stop.
I don't know how much timewe're going to have.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, so I'm trying to spend as much time as I can,
give as much information as Ican, trying to set everything up
as quickly as I can.
Yeah, you know, yeah, so thatfor me it's just that's the most
important thing just tounderstand time.
If you understand time, thenthat might help you with maybe
being in wanting to be in touchwith us.
(52:44):
It doesn't have to be everybodyjust, but with us.
It's not that I'm asking you tostay on the phone with me
because you know, I don't.
I'm not just going to sit thereand talk, right, right, there's
a reason why I'm calling.
And then some, a lot of timeshis mom is like, did you get in
touch with him?
And I was like no, or likeshe'll say I sent him a text,
did he text you?
I said, yeah, he texted me.
(53:05):
Why he text you?
He text me.
And I'm like I don't know, justgive him some space, man, when
he's ready to talk, he'll talkto you, you know.
So there's like the balancethat I have with mom.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
There's one thing I wanted to say is you know the
unstoppable force and movmovable object?
Yeah, that's me and monique,that was an interesting dynamic.
Watching growing up to see thatthat was something that like,
that's a challenge in itselfthat I had to process growing up
because I had to do it bymyself.
There was no sibling that wasthere watching that experience
with me and obviously they arethemselves.
I can't tell them how theybeing crazy or how they're
acting.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
You know, I just had to watch it, so he gets to see
all that and then you know, heknows.
Hopefully that's not how itworks, but I have a long staying
power, like I can stay in thesituation for a very long time,
good or bad don't matter.
Speaker 3 (53:55):
And now you guys have an amazing.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah, it's a really good, really good relationship
yeah.
Like when she leaves.
I don't tell her this, though,but when she like leaves, I'm
like man, I don't want her to go, but she'd be ready to go.
But she complains the wholetime that she's like I want to
come back home, but he gets tosee this.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Yeah yeah.
They are not the traditionalparenthood and relationship you
see on TV.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
That's not real yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Everything you see on TV, or just all the other
parents I would see in real life.
I'd be like what these two arespecial for sure.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
None of it is real, bro.
None of it is real.
I think that's been part of myweakness too.
Growing up is I believed TV toomuch.
I was raised by those threechannels I had growing up.
Speaker 5 (54:38):
So I believed all that bullshit.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
It was true to me.
I was like, yeah, this is it.
All right, guys.
So we've reached the point inthe conversation.
Unless you guys have anythingelse to add, I'm going to hand
you, whichever one of you loses,the coin toss.
Unless someone wants tovolunteer and do it, I'm leaving
it up to fate, all right, sowe're going to flip a coin.
You don't want to do it becauseyou're just being told to do it
(55:01):
.
Speaker 5 (55:01):
No no.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Is this people pleasing?
Speaker 5 (55:03):
we were talking about I was kind of looking forward
to this moment.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
He does do a killer.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
SpongeBob.
Excuse me, Sounds like he'sabout to be SpongeBob bro, I
don't when.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
What are you doing?
No, I'm just kidding.
He was a big SpongeBob boy whenwe were younger, so that's
still my show man.
I'm just.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
SpongeBob like that.
Speaker 5 (55:23):
I can try my best to do a Stitch impression, you know
, like Lilo and Stitch.
All right, go for it.
Man.
Jesus Christ, now it's pressure, fuck.
Okay, quiet, is that nice?
Speaker 4 (55:40):
Please support us by following the show, leave us a
five-star review on ApplePodcasts and share with your
family, because Ohana meansfamily.
Thank you so much for listeningand we will catch you what's
that word?
Next week when we shareconversations surrounding real
issues we deal with every dayManhood Matters.
(56:01):
We're out.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
That was pretty good.
Wait, wait I was like okay.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
That was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
I didn't expect it to come out like that.
Really, I don't even know whatthose things are.
That's probably what thosethings are, thank you.
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